1 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom Never told You. From how Stuff 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline and Caroline. There was a bit 4 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 1: of underwear news in the news, underwear news, underpans. Yes, 5 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: I tweeted this out that the first lingerie line specifically 6 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 1: for trans women has hit the market. Yeah. It was 7 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: a partnership between psy Lows and Simone to bias. They 8 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: launched Chrysalists, and their mission is to provide a solution 9 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 1: for trans women and make them feel sexy, but also 10 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: to change negative views of the transgender community. Yeah, it's 11 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: pretty cool. They're using all transgender models and you might think, oh, why, 12 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: why do they need special underwear. So the bras, for instance, 13 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 1: come with pockets uh at allow silicone cups to be inserted. 14 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:07,279 Speaker 1: And then also the briefs are designed to help lift 15 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: and tuck genitalia to smooth out the silhouette. And right 16 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: now they're just starting off with a very basic line, 17 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 1: but they plan to expand Chrysalis too more coture collections, 18 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:24,680 Speaker 1: sect or broader lines of lingerie. Yes, lacy under things. Yes, 19 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: So we thought that was pretty cool and also reminded 20 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:30,400 Speaker 1: us say, hey, you know what comes up a lot 21 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: in our podcast trans issues, And you know what, we've 22 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: never done a podcast specifically on transgender issues, so it's 23 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: it's time we talk about it. Yes, So here is 24 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: our Transgender one oh one primer, because I feel like 25 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: it is coming up more and more, not just in 26 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 1: you know, kind of side items about lingerie lines, but 27 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 1: in news about civil rights, um employment law, and even 28 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 1: in our Potty Politics episode clear issue of bathrooms and 29 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: the awkwardness that can bring, especially in the workplace. Yeah. 30 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:08,359 Speaker 1: So um, keeping in mind that March thirty one, market 31 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 1: on your calendars is International Transgender Visibility Day, Let's go 32 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 1: ahead and do our part for transgender visibility, Caroline and 33 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: talk about what transgender means. When when we hear the 34 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 1: word transgender, what is that in reference to? Well, the 35 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 1: word transgender itself is an umbrella term often used to 36 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: refer to people whose gender identity differs from their assigned 37 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 1: sex at birth, and this is not the only identity though. 38 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: These folks could also identify as trans, trans, sexual, gender, queer, 39 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: et cetera. There are a lot of terms that have 40 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 1: been coined over the years ever since this was first studied. Yeah, 41 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: and the Williams Institute at u c l A estimates 42 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: that there are about seven hundred thousand trans people in 43 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: the United States. UM and some may pursue hormone therapy 44 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: or surgery. UM and transgender people may or may not 45 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 1: use a different name or pronoun than the one they 46 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: were assigned at birth. But before we go ahead, let's 47 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 1: talk about some words we don't need to use. Right. 48 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 1: We don't want to use the word transgendered, yet it 49 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 1: sounds like that's something that's being done to someone. Right. 50 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: Transgender you can think of as always using it as 51 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: an adjective and the whole transgendered thing. I will say 52 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: we were called out once. We were no, but I 53 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 1: appreciate it that our listeners were and they weren't mean 54 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 1: about it. Nobody was mean about it, and we didn't 55 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:32,519 Speaker 1: mean to be mean. And we were educated exactly so 56 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: much education going on in other terms transvestite, she mail, 57 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: he she, tranny, sham. These are all considered to be 58 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: dehumanizing slurs. Yeah, and since we're talking about etiquette just briefly, 59 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 1: I'm Sebastian Over at auto Straddle offered some tips for 60 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: non trans people who might be curious about trans issues. 61 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: And there's nothing wrong with being curious and wanting to 62 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: ask questions, but Sebastian requests, hey, please ask permission to 63 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 1: you ask questions. This is obviously a sensitive area. UM. 64 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: And don't challenge gender identity by saying stuff like will 65 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: you ever grow to average male height? Or don't refer 66 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: to cis gender or non transgender as real like a 67 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: real woman a real man before you ask a question. 68 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: Don't forget the magic of Google. There are some things 69 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: that you can simply search on your own, and that 70 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: just is part of respecting privacy. And speaking of privacy, 71 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: one final thing that Sebastian urges is if you want 72 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 1: to know about genitalia, ask if it is okay to 73 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: ask before you ask, ye, try try to put yourself 74 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 1: in other people's shoes really about anything in life. Just 75 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 1: be sensitive. Um. There are a lot of legal issues 76 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:51,720 Speaker 1: that trans people face in our country and really all 77 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: over the world. UM. There are various forms of legal identification, 78 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: for instance, that have different restrict rules about changing gender 79 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: that leave little are no option for correct or consistent documentation. 80 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 1: I mean, just think about the d m V. I 81 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:08,720 Speaker 1: don't want to think about the d m v Also, 82 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 1: most states, UH and countries offer no legal protections as 83 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: far as housing, employment, and healthcare go. And speaking of employment, 84 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 1: there was a survey that found that more than a 85 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: quarter of transgender employees had been fired because of this 86 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: kind of discrimination. UM. Transgender people are also more likely 87 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:31,359 Speaker 1: to be homeless, partially due to these kinds of legal 88 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:34,600 Speaker 1: entanglements that will come up. And also I mean employment 89 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:37,719 Speaker 1: issues of you are getting fired, then you know it 90 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: can be harder to put a roof over your head. 91 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 1: They're also at heightened risk of violence and for mental 92 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:47,719 Speaker 1: health issues. Yeah, I mean, if we're going to talk about, um, 93 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 1: the basic issues facing transgender people in our country and 94 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:52,840 Speaker 1: across the world, we definitely need to talk about the 95 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 1: violence and mental health aspects. UM. At least one transgender 96 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: person is murdered every month and several more are assault died. 97 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 1: And the same report says that of transgender youth report 98 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 1: being physically attacked, and nearly half of young trans people 99 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: have thought about suicide, compared to a fourth who report 100 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: having made a suicide attempt. Yeah, I mean, the whole 101 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 1: violence against trans people UM reminds me of the incident 102 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 1: in two thousand and eleven it went viral on the 103 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: internet of trans woman Chrissie Lee Polis, who was beaten 104 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 1: in a Baltimore County McDonald's just for being transgender. It 105 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:36,480 Speaker 1: was horrifying and the only reason why the charges were 106 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 1: even pressed was because someone in the McDonald's filmed it 107 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 1: and then put it on YouTube and it got all 108 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: of this attention. But otherwise, I mean, when you think 109 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: about the fact that there's an estimated seven hundred thousand 110 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:49,840 Speaker 1: trans people in the United States, that might sound like 111 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: a large number, but when you compare that to the 112 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: broader population, it is such a small minority, and because 113 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 1: of its small size, has been overshadowed in a lot 114 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: of ways. And transvisibility is something that is definitely needed 115 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: to make sure that violations of basic human rights aren't happening. Right. Well, 116 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: so we talked about terms that were coined over time 117 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 1: for trans people, but what about the term gender identity disorder. 118 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: This is something that is actually currently changing. So gender 119 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 1: identity disorder is the diagnostic name, or has been the 120 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: diagnostic name for transgender It's been part of the diagnostic 121 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: statistical manual. I always drip over that since nineteen eighty 122 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: and just for reference homosexuality was removed from the d 123 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: s M in nineteen seventy three. So I talked about 124 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 1: things are changing with this Gender identity disorder will not 125 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 1: be in the upcoming Diagnostic Statistical Manual number five, which 126 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: is said to be published in May thirteen. It will 127 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: be replaced by the term gender dysphoria. Yeah, And so 128 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: what does this change mean because, um, a lot of 129 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: people in the mental health community praised the change, also 130 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 1: people in the trans community because gender identity disorder that 131 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: makes it obviously sound like something wrong, something bad. Um. 132 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: And the change of the d s M reflects the 133 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: narrowing of psychiatrists focus on those who experience personal distress 134 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: over their gender incongruity. Essentially not feeling like your assigned 135 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 1: sex at birth fits your assigned gender, that there is 136 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: a you know, there's a mismatch going on there. And 137 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 1: Jack Dresser, who is a member of the American Psychological 138 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 1: Association group who is dedicated to considering that name change 139 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: issue in said that this recommendation came from a desire 140 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 1: to stop pathologizing all expressions of gender variance just because 141 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:56,439 Speaker 1: they weren't common or made someone uncomfortable. So from that perspective, 142 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: it's great, this is a very good thing that's happening. Yeah. 143 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: The potential bump in the road, though, comes when we 144 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:06,959 Speaker 1: get to insurance insurance coverage for hormonal or surgical intervention. 145 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 1: Typically it's justified on the ground that gender identity disorder 146 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: is just that it's a disorder, it's a medical problem 147 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: needing treatment. And back in this was June two eight, 148 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,599 Speaker 1: the a m A, the American Medical Association, passed a 149 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:25,559 Speaker 1: resolution supporting public and private health insurance coverage for treatment 150 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: of gender identity disorder, saying that this affirm the legitimacy 151 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,680 Speaker 1: of the g I D diagnosis and its supported the 152 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:37,959 Speaker 1: removal of health insurance discrimination against transient transgender people. So 153 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 1: there are these worries that once you don't have a 154 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 1: quote unquote disorder, that you cannot get insurance coverage to 155 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 1: pursue the type of therapy or treatment you want. Right 156 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: and when we're thinking about medical procedures of people might 157 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 1: automatically think of some kind of procedure to alter the genitalia. 158 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:59,200 Speaker 1: But there was an article in the New republic Um 159 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:03,680 Speaker 1: that was prof filing a transgender woman and she had 160 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: a face feminization surgery and the author was talking about 161 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: how something like that for trans women in particular is 162 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:15,199 Speaker 1: even more psychologically important because obviously, I mean, that's what 163 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: people see, you know, when you are at the workplace 164 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 1: or interacting with your family. UM, and the transplant is 165 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: also um going to weekly voice lessons to help modulate 166 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 1: the you know, the base and make it a little 167 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: more because women, I mean, obviously women and men speak differently. 168 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:35,199 Speaker 1: And as they point on the article, there's a difference 169 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:37,079 Speaker 1: between just a man speaking in a false set of 170 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 1: voice and a man speaking like a woman or learning 171 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 1: to speak like a woman does, right, because if a 172 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:46,439 Speaker 1: trans man is taking testosterone, that testosterone will naturally lower 173 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:50,440 Speaker 1: the voice, whereas if a trans woman is taking estrogen, 174 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 1: estrogen does not alter the voice in the same way. Right, 175 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:57,319 Speaker 1: So they're they're a whole that that article is actually fascinating, 176 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: just talking about not only everything she changed her name 177 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 1: to Caroline actually, so not only everything that she had 178 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,559 Speaker 1: to go through as far as like fashion, learning about 179 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 1: how to wear clothes, learning how to apply makeup and 180 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: do her hair, but also you know, the more psychologically 181 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 1: damaging stuff of like how do I tell my family 182 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 1: when my kids still accept me? Right? Right. She had 183 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: two sons and one of which you know, lived with her, 184 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:23,680 Speaker 1: and she was terrified that it would just alter that 185 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:29,959 Speaker 1: relationship completely. But also in regard to that that medical treatment, UM, 186 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 1: a separate group with the American Psychological Association UM has 187 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: determined that enough empirical and clinical data exists to justify 188 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 1: creating a standard set of practical guidelines for treatment and 189 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: that will probably help with those insurance issues that we 190 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: talked about. So yeah, speaking on clinical terms, this is 191 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 1: coming from the National Institutes of Health writing about gender 192 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 1: identity disorder in particular, and there are are signs, there 193 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 1: are things that people go through, whether they are children 194 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 1: or grown ups, and they write that children who are 195 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:08,319 Speaker 1: diagnosed with gender identity disorder are disgusted by their own genitals, 196 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: are rejected by their peers, believe they'll grow up to 197 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 1: be the opposite sex, or say they want to be 198 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: the opposite sex. Now, things that apply to both children 199 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 1: and adults, just that feeling alone, depressed or anxious, UM 200 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 1: cross dressing, showing habits typical of the opposite sex, and 201 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 1: withdrawing from social interaction, that whole feeling of well, I'm 202 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: I'm just different, and no one will accept me. Right, 203 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 1: And this isn't you know a thing where you know, 204 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 1: a kid's just gonna grow out of it. He wants 205 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: to put on a skirt. Okay, well you know what once, 206 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: once he grows up, he'll be fine. No, no, no, 207 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 1: those those feelings of not right and it's not feeling 208 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 1: right in your own body only intensifies into adulthood. Um, 209 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:53,079 Speaker 1: you know where it leads to more experimentation of actually, 210 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 1: you know, dressing like the opposite sex or you know, 211 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 1: strongly wanting to live as the opposite sex. Right, And 212 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 1: so they talk about at the doctor basically what happens 213 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: when it's not just a phase that a kid is 214 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: going through wanting to wear the opposite gender's clothes, um, 215 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: the feeling of being in the wrong body. Uh, it 216 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: has to last for at least two years for the 217 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:19,320 Speaker 1: diagnosis to be made. Although you know now that this 218 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: is changing in May of this year. You know, these 219 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:26,319 Speaker 1: these guidelines will shift also. But at the doctor, the 220 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 1: doctor will take a history in psychiatric evaluation to confirm 221 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 1: the constant desire over time to be the opposite sex. Yeah. 222 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 1: And the good thing is is that there, especially for 223 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 1: these childhood issues, is that um, transgender children are becoming 224 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 1: a more visible in society. I remember hearing uh this 225 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 1: American Life story about this over a year ago or so, 226 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 1: and there have been, you know, cover stories in New 227 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 1: York Times magazine and articles, a lot more attension being 228 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: paid to this, which is good because it means that 229 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: the right kind of attention can be paid from early 230 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 1: childhood so that you don't end up as an adult 231 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 1: having to radically alter your entire life and possibly dealing 232 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:17,679 Speaker 1: with long term depression and confusion and social alienation. Well, um, 233 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: you know we mentioned a bit ago that this is 234 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: this is not a new transgender people in the world, 235 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 1: or it's not a new phenomenon. Now this the whole 236 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: concept goes back. And it's not just a Western concept either. 237 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: There's the hedra from India, the Fafa Fime from Polynesia, 238 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: lady boys and tomboys and Thailand, and the taka Tapui 239 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: of New Zealand. Yeah, and those are all just different 240 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 1: terms for what we now in the United States have 241 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: with transgender people. And just for a bit of a 242 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: historical timeline, this is coming from the Guardian In fifteen 243 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 1: fifty two, the word androgyny was coined, but It's only 244 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 1: been in the past decade or so that people have 245 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: used it to describe a state of being in between enders, 246 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: and that's not though to be confused androgyny, not to 247 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 1: be confused with intersects, which is the medical term of 248 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: when someone is born with both sets of genitalia. The 249 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: term transvestite has an interesting history. It was coined in 250 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: nineteen ten and originated from German sexologist Magnus Hirschfeld, who 251 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 1: went on to develop the Berlin Institute where the first 252 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 1: sex reassignment operations took place. And we we mentioned other terms, 253 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: so here's the timeline. Very interesting. Transsexual was coined in 254 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 1: nineteen forty nine, transgender in nineteen seventy one, trans in 255 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: nineteen and the term polygender, which is a little different, 256 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 1: was a term also in the nineteen nineties of the 257 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 1: state of being multiple genders. Now, even though we've had 258 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: language around transgender issues for a long time, um, unfortunately 259 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 1: and not surprisingly, the discrimination has an equally long history. 260 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: In eighteen seventy one of the first public trials for 261 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 1: quote unquote transvestite behavior happened in the UK, and it 262 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 1: was prosecuting Earnest Bolton aka Stella and Fred park A 263 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 1: K Fanny who were arrested for indecent behavior and they 264 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 1: were prosecuted based on transvesticism and soliciting of men as 265 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: women and they were quitted of a charge of conspiracy 266 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 1: into commit a felony by cross dressing. And I want 267 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 1: to say it was either on bus feed or flavor 268 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: wire recently that had photos of Stella and Fanny. Well, yeah, 269 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 1: and Bolton the Bolton Park Society is one of the 270 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:38,840 Speaker 1: largest organizations for trans people, which I had never heard of. 271 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 1: And then in five just to get genue on down 272 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 1: our road of bigotry, the UK made the homosexual behavior illegal. Yeah, 273 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 1: and this is around this time that sexology we talked 274 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: about Magnus Hirshfeld being a sexologist. Sexology was established when 275 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 1: trans people sought out doctors who could cure them. Because 276 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: if you're just live in your life, you know, you 277 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:07,440 Speaker 1: might not necessarily think I need treatment. However, if suddenly 278 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 1: the way you are he's illegal, people are going to 279 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:15,399 Speaker 1: start to seek cures so that they're not persecuted. So 280 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 1: the work of Hirschfeld and of Richard von Kraft Ebbing, 281 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 1: a psychiatry professor, led to trans sexuality becoming a recognized phenomenon, 282 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 1: and this brought it to the forefront. It's available for 283 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 1: steady discussion and treatment at this point. Yeah, and because 284 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: of Hirschfeld's research into that. In the nineteen twenties and thirties, 285 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 1: at Hirschfeld's clinic, we have the first sex change operations 286 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,920 Speaker 1: being performed by Dr Felix Abraham, and those were a 287 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 1: mastectomy on a transgender man in ninety six, a penectomy 288 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 1: on his domestic servant Dora in nineteen thirty and a 289 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:54,920 Speaker 1: vaginal plastic on the Danish painter Lily Elbe in nineteen 290 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: thirty one. But Elb did dial us and two years 291 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:03,199 Speaker 1: later from camp occasions. Yeah. Um. In the nineteen forties 292 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 1: and fifties, Michael Dillon, who was born Laura, obtained gender 293 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:11,879 Speaker 1: reassignment treatment during the war. In the late nineteen forties, 294 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: he had a penis constructed by plastic surgeon Sir Harold Gillies. 295 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: He actually was trained, trained, and worked as a ship's 296 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: doctor until being outed by the Sunday Express in nineteen 297 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: fifty eight. He eventually moved to India, became a Buddhist 298 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 1: monk and a writer. I mean, there must have been 299 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:33,120 Speaker 1: quite a groundbreaking surgery at the time of the Latening 300 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 1: forties to get a penis construction, because that's something that 301 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:42,400 Speaker 1: even now is you know, very difficult surgery to um 302 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 1: to perform. Now, in nineteen fifty two, we have Christine Jorgensen, 303 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 1: who was a former American g I who returned from 304 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 1: Denmark where she had undergone the first of several operations, 305 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: and over on our tumbler a while ago, I posted 306 00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 1: a video interview with Jorgensen, who really became the public face, 307 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:11,440 Speaker 1: a celebrated face of transgender people because when she came home, 308 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 1: when she came back to the States, she got a 309 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:17,879 Speaker 1: ton of press coverage. People were fascinated by Jorgensen. Yeah, well, 310 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 1: this had I think a great effect as far as 311 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: the transgender community goes, because her once she she was 312 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: in the news, she became this new sensation of this, 313 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 1: this tall, blonde, all American woman. Her Danish psychiatrist started 314 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 1: receiving letters from people all over the world who were 315 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:37,360 Speaker 1: going through similar things. And it became clear to medical 316 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 1: professionals around this time that this this wasn't just a 317 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:43,879 Speaker 1: few rare cases of people experiencing this. This was something 318 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:46,919 Speaker 1: much bigger. Yeah, and that's and it's such a prime 319 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 1: example of the importance of visibility that once you see 320 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 1: someone who's going through the same thing, you're saying, Oh, 321 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 1: I'm not there's nothing wrong with me. Okay. Um now 322 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: endochronol Just Harry Benjamin set up a clinical practice in 323 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:06,159 Speaker 1: New York then San Francisco. UM. He trained psychiatrists and 324 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 1: psychotherapist to deal with trans issues and published the first 325 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 1: major textbook on the subject in nineteen sixty six. Yeah, 326 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: and it was the same year that the Comptons riot 327 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: took place. This was that Gene Compton's cafeteria in San Francisco. 328 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 1: So this place was pretty much the only, you know, 329 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,959 Speaker 1: hang out where trans people could gather publicly, as they 330 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 1: weren't really allowed in gay bars at the time. So 331 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 1: one night a cop attempts to arrest a trans woman 332 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:37,719 Speaker 1: here at the cafeteria. She fights back and a riot 333 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:40,439 Speaker 1: breaks out, spilling out into the whole neighborhood, and it 334 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 1: became one of the first transgender uprisings in the US, 335 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 1: and that proceeded the Stone Wall uprisings. Um. Now that 336 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 1: we're talking about nineteen sixty six, fastwarding to today, there's 337 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 1: there's been so much more attention and awareness raised about 338 00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 1: trans issues, a lot more advocacy going on, UM, but 339 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 1: it has not been complete smooth sailing for trans rights, 340 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 1: especially coming to heads with some factions of feminism, some 341 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 1: more radical feminists who have said that trans women are 342 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 1: essentially violating female bodies right taking them on for themselves. 343 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:28,200 Speaker 1: Susan Striker wrote that feminists of the nineteen seventies were 344 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:33,160 Speaker 1: critical of transgender practices, saying that they were personal solutions 345 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,920 Speaker 1: to the inner experience of distress about experiencing gender based 346 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 1: oppression and speaking of gender because obviously this is something 347 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,640 Speaker 1: that comes up all the time in the podcast in UM, 348 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 1: in any kind of women's studies, their feminism, UM. Gender, 349 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 1: the the idea of gender, the terminology comes up as 350 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:55,440 Speaker 1: a result of studies on transgender people. This was coming 351 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:57,680 Speaker 1: out of the work of John Money and Joan Hansen 352 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: and John Hampson on Intersects You Reality UM that led 353 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 1: to the introduction of the technical term gender in nineteen 354 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 1: It's a little fun etymological fact. Yeah, there's this whole, 355 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 1: this whole new uh scholarly vocabulary that comes out of 356 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:18,360 Speaker 1: the study of not only trans issues, but gender issues feminism. 357 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 1: One of those words is trans feminism, uh, where liberation 358 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,959 Speaker 1: is viewed to be intrinsically linked to the liberation of 359 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:30,880 Speaker 1: all women, and often we see sexism and transphobia blended together, 360 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,880 Speaker 1: as we did with that woman who was beat up 361 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:37,880 Speaker 1: in the fast food restaurant. Um Amy Koyama rights that 362 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,880 Speaker 1: trans feminism stands up for all women and ask non 363 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,680 Speaker 1: non trans women to stand up for trans women in return. 364 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: And one of the big names that has come out 365 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 1: in more recent years in terms of commentary on sort 366 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 1: of bridging the former device between um sub factions of 367 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:58,199 Speaker 1: feminism and trans issues is Julius Serrano, who wrote the 368 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 1: book Whipping Girl and Sarrana of differentiates between traditional sexism, 369 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,400 Speaker 1: which she sees is the belief that males and masculinity 370 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 1: are superior to females and femininity, and oppositional sexism, which 371 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,879 Speaker 1: she sees as the belief that male slash masculine and 372 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:18,920 Speaker 1: female slash femininity constitute exclusive categories. And this gets into 373 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 1: her argument that biological variants, you know, the male sex, 374 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: female sex exists in the same way that we recognize 375 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:32,359 Speaker 1: gender variants of the spectrum of the performance of male 376 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 1: and female. Yeah, she uses uh, you know, getting into 377 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,440 Speaker 1: more vocabulary, she uses the term cis sexualism to indicate 378 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: the privilege of those whose biological and subconscious sex are 379 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 1: an alignment. Sys genderism indicates the assumption that males should 380 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 1: be masculine and females should be feminine, which she refers 381 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:56,880 Speaker 1: to as a holy, artificial set of gender expressions, writing 382 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 1: that it seems incomprehensible that so many women could actively 383 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: gravitate towards femininity unless there was something about it that 384 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: resonated with them on a profound level. Yeah, and she 385 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: came up Julius Torano did in our episode on femphobia, 386 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 1: because a lot of this does tie into debates over 387 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 1: or criticism over why the feminine is often derided as 388 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:24,680 Speaker 1: weaker and less valuable than the masculine. And it's part 389 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,479 Speaker 1: of that discussion in which she coined the term trans 390 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:32,160 Speaker 1: misogyny for discrimination that targets the perceived femininity of trans women. 391 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: So when we're talking about femphobia, like we said in 392 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,359 Speaker 1: that episode, it's not just fear and hatred of women 393 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 1: or pink things, but anything feminine. Yeah, traditionally feminine. So 394 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 1: if you want to to dig more into the you know, 395 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,919 Speaker 1: the scholarly side of transitiones definitely pick up Julia Serrano's 396 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: Whipping Girl, um, but into more feet on the street 397 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 1: stuff that's going on right now to promote transvisibility and equality. 398 00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:00,439 Speaker 1: There are things going on like DC's Transgender in Gender 399 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 1: Identity Respect campaign. Yeah, I remember when this hit. Advocates 400 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:09,120 Speaker 1: have said it's the first government funded initiative exclusively focused 401 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 1: on the betterment of transgender and non gender conforming people. 402 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: And all of the posters they feature different different people 403 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 1: and each one says, please treat me the way that 404 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 1: any man, woman person would want to be treated with 405 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,479 Speaker 1: courtesy and respect. Yeah. There's also the Trans one hundred 406 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 1: list UM, which I think is coming out into March UM, 407 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: and it's essentially like the Power List of trans people 408 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,360 Speaker 1: and it was launched by We Happy Trans and this 409 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: is how to celebrate transactivists in the US. And yeah, 410 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: the finalists will be published in March. That's something to 411 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 1: look out for as well. Do not only provide visibility 412 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 1: but also give props to folks out there who are 413 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,119 Speaker 1: fighting the good fight. Yeah. So when we see that 414 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,680 Speaker 1: list come out in March, we'll be sure to post 415 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 1: it for your or your knowledge for your information. Yeah, 416 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 1: because one thing we went through the timeline, Uh, but 417 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: we have not talked about called out specific trans pioneers, 418 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: I mean aside from Christine Jorgensen UM. But there are 419 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 1: certainly a lot of them out there. So we'll be 420 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 1: sure to promote some of that stuff that's out on 421 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 1: the web as well. I highly recommend going to if 422 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 1: you are curious, going to auto straddle dot com and 423 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:28,680 Speaker 1: just searching transgender. They have a ton of stuff on 424 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:30,879 Speaker 1: their website as well, And of course Glad We've got 425 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,639 Speaker 1: a lot of information from Glad G L A A 426 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 1: D dot org and search um their archives on transgender 427 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,399 Speaker 1: stuff as well. And the Williams Institute at u c 428 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 1: l A for more legal resources, huge, huge amount of 429 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: resources and research. Yeah, and the New Republic article that 430 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:55,159 Speaker 1: we referenced talks about how transgender issues really are the 431 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 1: civil rights issue, the next big one that's coming up, 432 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 1: so some ing to definitely educate yourself about. So I 433 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:06,880 Speaker 1: hope that we've helped educate and we corrected our use 434 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,720 Speaker 1: of transgender and not transgendered. So I hope that the 435 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,400 Speaker 1: person who wrote in this listening, because the hat tip 436 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,679 Speaker 1: is to you and thank you so to any trans 437 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 1: listeners out there, because I know that you are out 438 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,679 Speaker 1: there because we've heard from you before. Let us know 439 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 1: your thoughts and everybody else as well. Mom. Stuff at 440 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: Discovery dot com is where you can send them, or 441 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,359 Speaker 1: head over to our Facebook leave a message. They're like us, 442 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,679 Speaker 1: Well you're at it, and we've got a couple of 443 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:39,920 Speaker 1: letters to share. Christen. We have one here that it's 444 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: about our O B g y n episode going to 445 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 1: the guy No one oh one um. But it also 446 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:46,880 Speaker 1: relates to what we've talked about today. Indeed it does. 447 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,399 Speaker 1: This is from Catch, who writes, I thoroughly enjoyed your 448 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:52,679 Speaker 1: podcast on the O B. G Yan and appreciate the 449 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 1: importance of talking about what happens in that office. The 450 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,920 Speaker 1: medical care of women and gender minorities is often under 451 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,119 Speaker 1: discussed and stigma tied. It's very important to shine a 452 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 1: light on My only disappointment was in the oversight on 453 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 1: your discussion of the gynecologist as someplace only women identified 454 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,719 Speaker 1: folks would go. As a happily female assigned gent and 455 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: trans feminist, it seemed important to note that many transgender gentlemen, 456 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:21,159 Speaker 1: gender nonconforming and intersect people may or do use this doctor. 457 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,119 Speaker 1: Just a friendly reminder that trans people have medical needs 458 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,159 Speaker 1: to and the medical care of the female reproductive system 459 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:31,320 Speaker 1: slash vagina slash private biz does not always mean the 460 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: patient identifies as a lady or woman. So thank you 461 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 1: very much for your perspective. Catch yeah, thank you, catch um, 462 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 1: and I've got one here from Kara on some differences 463 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 1: she's noticed between men's and women's health magazines. She is 464 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,719 Speaker 1: a bit of an exercise enthusiast and a runner, and 465 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 1: she says women's magazines, such as Women's Health and Women's Running, 466 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 1: typically take the stance of exercise as a means to 467 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 1: achieving a certain body type or losing weight. I find 468 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 1: this tress especially noticeable between Women's Running, which will have 469 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 1: articles on how to keep your skin clear even after sweating, 470 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 1: or how running gives you a cute but while their 471 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 1: parent magazine, Runners World, will focus on how to get 472 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: a faster mile and achieve a new distance or run 473 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 1: a faster race. I've always been frustrated by the perception 474 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 1: that all women care about is their appearance, and God 475 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 1: forbid a woman work work out to look stronger, faster, 476 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 1: or feel better emotionally. No, obviously, she just wants to 477 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 1: fit into that new dress and look good naked. As 478 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 1: somebody who loves athletics for myriad reasons, I wish fitness 479 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 1: magazines that are targeted at women would highlight the benefits 480 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:39,720 Speaker 1: of fitness and athletics that aren't purely superficial I for one, 481 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 1: And I'm really excited about the strongest sexy trend that 482 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 1: seems to be entering women's fitness. Even if it is 483 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 1: based somewhat on an idealized physical attribute, at least it's 484 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,080 Speaker 1: better than the malnourished is sexy that seems so prevalent 485 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 1: in the last few years, with all the praise of 486 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: the size zero and double zero. So thanks Kara, and 487 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 1: catch into everyone who's written into mom Stuff at Discovery 488 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,960 Speaker 1: dot com. You can also find us on Facebook, follow 489 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 1: us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast, follow us on 490 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 1: tumbler as well. It's stuff Mom Never Told You dot 491 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 1: tumblr dot com, And if you would like to know 492 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 1: more about human sexuality, go get smarter at our website 493 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 1: It's how stuff Works dot com for more on this 494 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Does it how stuff works 495 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 1: dot com