WEBVTT - The Outlook for Cryptocurrencies Under a New President

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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<v Speaker 2>This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Tim

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<v Speaker 2>Stenebek on Bloomberg Radio. Carol, the amount of money from

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<v Speaker 2>the crypto industry that's gone into this election has just

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<v Speaker 2>been staggering. Yeah, we're talking about fair Shake. It's the

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<v Speaker 2>political action committee which supports crypto friendly candidates from both parties.

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<v Speaker 2>It was poised to spend as much as well more

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<v Speaker 2>than forty million in the final weeks of the twenty

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<v Speaker 2>twenty four US elections, after already deploying one hundred and

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<v Speaker 2>forty million on dozens of congressional races nationwide. They're already

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<v Speaker 2>thinking about twenty twenty six. It's one of the most

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<v Speaker 2>powerful packs in Washington. They've now have more than thirty

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<v Speaker 2>million in the bank, forty eight million in commitments for

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<v Speaker 2>next election cycle. Yeah, we're talking about the twenty twenty

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<v Speaker 2>six midterms already.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's not like there's something at stake, although we

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<v Speaker 3>know there is, and we know that crypto has certainly

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<v Speaker 3>been something that has come up among the presidential candidates.

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<v Speaker 3>Stephen mccluk is CEO at the digital asset focused investment

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<v Speaker 3>firm Canary capital and Ken. Thank you all, Rod I

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<v Speaker 3>wanted to say correctly, or I wanted you too. Its

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<v Speaker 3>co founder and chief experience officer at Solidus Labs, which

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<v Speaker 3>calls itself quote first crypto native Security and Compliance hub

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<v Speaker 3>tailored for digital assets. We talk a lot about crypto,

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<v Speaker 3>Tim and I do both joining us here in our

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<v Speaker 3>Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio. Let me ask Steven. Let me

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<v Speaker 3>start with you in terms of you, guys are digitally asset,

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<v Speaker 3>you're investing. How are you thinking about the elections and

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<v Speaker 3>the election outcome, and it's not just elections but potentially

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<v Speaker 3>congressional elections that might have some thoughts in terms of

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<v Speaker 3>regulatory oversight and in terms of where crypto goes. How

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<v Speaker 3>are you thinking about the outcomes?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, no, thank you and thanks for having us well.

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<v Speaker 4>First of all, I do believe that the congressional races

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<v Speaker 4>are going to be more important than the presidential races

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<v Speaker 4>this time because right now the Senate.

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<v Speaker 1>UH.

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<v Speaker 4>If the Senate changes and the Senate it begins to

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<v Speaker 4>support crypto, particularly the Senate Banking Committee, that's the most

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<v Speaker 4>important thing right now. We could see a thriving crypto

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<v Speaker 4>industry in the US if we get some changes in

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<v Speaker 4>the Senate. Congress is already supportive, or the House is

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<v Speaker 4>already supportive. We just need to get the Senate supportive

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<v Speaker 4>as well.

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<v Speaker 2>Kind I'm going to get to you in a second,

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<v Speaker 2>but I want to follow up Steven with you for

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<v Speaker 2>a minute. Why should the Senate support crypto? I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>people think about this from the perspective. I think, if

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<v Speaker 2>you're not deeply involved in the industry as an industry

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<v Speaker 2>that's rife with scam and grift. There are people behind

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<v Speaker 2>bars right now as a result of some of these

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<v Speaker 2>scams in grift, it's something that's.

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<v Speaker 4>Used for.

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<v Speaker 2>Buying stuff on the dark web, ransomware and the like,

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<v Speaker 2>why should the Senate be supporting it?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, Well, to back up a little bit, let's just

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<v Speaker 4>talk about bitcoin for a moment. Bitcoin actually makes it

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<v Speaker 4>easy for law enforcement to track monetary trans actions. So

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<v Speaker 4>the FBI has has software that they track every single

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<v Speaker 4>movement that is made on the bitcoin network, every single wallet.

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<v Speaker 4>They were spoken in the folks from Chanalysis in the past. Yeah, absolutely,

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<v Speaker 4>and Chanalysis is full full of x FBI agents and

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<v Speaker 4>so so Bitcoin actually makes it possible to track down criminals.

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<v Speaker 4>But the reason why, you know, about transactions on the

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<v Speaker 4>dark web, and the reason why people are in jail

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<v Speaker 4>and the reason why people are being caught is because

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<v Speaker 4>of these transactions. FTX is another good example of of

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<v Speaker 4>of a massive fraud that occurred. But if people had

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<v Speaker 4>only looked at the chainalysis of what was going on,

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<v Speaker 4>they would see that not everything equated to what to

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<v Speaker 4>what the executives that FTS are saying. So so bitcoin

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<v Speaker 4>is actually really good for law enforcement in my opinion,

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<v Speaker 4>first of all. Second of all, as an industry, it's

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<v Speaker 4>it's it's really on the cutting edge of technology. Even

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<v Speaker 4>if you look like a big coin mining which essentially

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<v Speaker 4>data centers, a lot of those data centers are being

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<v Speaker 4>transformed into AI data centers, which is you know, obviously

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<v Speaker 4>the future after seeing some of the results today. So

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<v Speaker 4>we want to be leading that in the US. We

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<v Speaker 4>don't want it to be offshore. We don't want it

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<v Speaker 4>to be in China, we don't want it to be

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<v Speaker 4>in the Bahamas. We want it to be in the US.

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<v Speaker 3>Ken come on in on, thanks, because I'm curious what's

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<v Speaker 3>at stake for you based on the election outcome?

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<v Speaker 1>Right, So, first of all, I just want to agree

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<v Speaker 1>with Steven. I mean crypto has issues. It's a new industry.

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<v Speaker 1>People are still learning about it. I think that technology

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<v Speaker 1>is still being battle tested. There's fraud, there's scams. There

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<v Speaker 1>are issues, but let us not forget that those still

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<v Speaker 1>exist in traditional finance as well. And just to kind

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<v Speaker 1>of echo Stephen's points, the largest recovery of funds ever

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<v Speaker 1>in the history of the Department of Justice actually happened

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<v Speaker 1>thanks to bitcoin, four point one billion dollars. It was

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<v Speaker 1>the bitfoinix hack. A few years later they were able

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<v Speaker 1>to trace it despite thousands of transactions. So there are issues,

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<v Speaker 1>there are also a lot of opportunities, and I think

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<v Speaker 1>today most law enforcement I agree with Stephen you'd speak

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<v Speaker 1>with would tell you that it actually, you know, in

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of ways, provides opportunities to make finance safer,

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<v Speaker 1>automatically detect stems.

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<v Speaker 3>How does it stay true to what it's supposed to

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<v Speaker 3>be kind of something that is not part of the

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<v Speaker 3>traditional establi establishment with so many different hands and layers

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<v Speaker 3>in it, So how does it stay true to that?

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<v Speaker 3>But then get the proper transparency and regulatory oversight that

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<v Speaker 3>many would say is necessary that the traditional you know,

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<v Speaker 3>financial system.

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<v Speaker 1>Has already financialism has and yet you know, once every

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<v Speaker 1>few years we have a madeof or we have a

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<v Speaker 1>Lehman Brothers like just to say, you know, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>wherever there's money to make, some people would probably make

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<v Speaker 1>some bad decisions and hurt others. But you know, first

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<v Speaker 1>of all, you know, one of the fundamental ideas of

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<v Speaker 1>an asset like bitcoin, no government can print it. So

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<v Speaker 1>you know that's that's a really important fundamental idea. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>as an inflation hedge, et cetera. You can even today

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<v Speaker 1>working with centralized companies, they can support you in setting

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<v Speaker 1>up a wallet that is yours and they cannot control.

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<v Speaker 1>So there are a lot of different ways in which

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<v Speaker 1>this allows people already to control their money better. And

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<v Speaker 1>you know, and I'm just mentioning a few examples.

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<v Speaker 3>I get the control. But where's then the oversight? Right?

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<v Speaker 3>If the whole idea of cryptocurrencies is this currency that is,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, not part of the establishment, right and kind

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<v Speaker 3>of cleaner in terms of the thoroughfare, if you will,

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<v Speaker 3>then how but then many would argue, after FTX and

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<v Speaker 3>SBF that we do need some oversight. It's a regulatory oversit.

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<v Speaker 3>So we're how do you mesh those two.

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<v Speaker 1>So I guess I'll say a couple of things, and

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<v Speaker 1>I'll connect it also to the other question. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>first of all, from you know, if you look at FTX,

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<v Speaker 1>for example, a lot of people got hurt. I think

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<v Speaker 1>there's a very strong argument that can be made that

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<v Speaker 1>had it been regulated, less people would get hurt. In

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<v Speaker 1>New York, for example, FDx could not get a New

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<v Speaker 1>York license because there's a clear regulatory framework that the

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<v Speaker 1>New York Department.

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<v Speaker 3>Of one of these guys were outside of the United

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<v Speaker 3>States rights.

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<v Speaker 1>And one should ask not regulating it and instead just

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<v Speaker 1>looking to enforce but not regulating, which means that ultimately

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<v Speaker 1>Americans who want it. There are surveys ahead of the

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<v Speaker 1>elections that's say that thirty to forty percent of Americans

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<v Speaker 1>have engaged with digital assets. One out of seven of

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<v Speaker 1>every likely voter sees it as an important issue. There's

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<v Speaker 1>a question that needs to be asked that I think

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<v Speaker 1>people in Washington should ask themselves. By not regulating it,

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<v Speaker 1>regulating it, are you protecting Americans or are you abdicating responsibility.

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<v Speaker 1>N FTX is a great example for that.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, speaking of regulating this, I talked to a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of folks who agree on one thing in the crypto industry,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's their universal unapproval of Gary Gensler, the SEC chairman.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm wondering if you think that Gary Gensler will leave

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<v Speaker 2>if Kamala Harris wins, and if so, do you think

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<v Speaker 2>a new SEC chair would take a different approach toward crypto.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I do think a new chair would take a

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<v Speaker 4>different approach. I was actually one of the few people

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<v Speaker 4>that was a fan of Gary Ginsler's.

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<v Speaker 2>Really, I was, Okay, tell us why you're like the

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<v Speaker 2>first person I've talked to you in weeks in the

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<v Speaker 2>crypto community who say.

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<v Speaker 4>That, Yeah, I mean so, by the way, I agree

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<v Speaker 4>with all the questions that you guys are asking on

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<v Speaker 4>regulation and oversight. This is the whole reason why I

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<v Speaker 4>fought for the last seven years to get a bitcoin

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<v Speaker 4>spotty TF And obviously it was one of the one

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<v Speaker 4>of the ones that launched one with Valkyrie, and but

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<v Speaker 4>if you remember, we didn't get a spot bitcoin ETF

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<v Speaker 4>until Gary Ginsler was the chair. Now a lot of

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<v Speaker 4>people will say, okay, there's a lot of other different

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<v Speaker 4>reasons of why that I've heard.

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<v Speaker 2>I've said that on Aaron. People have pushed back, and

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<v Speaker 2>they've said, well, it was the lawsuits that did it,

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<v Speaker 2>it was the legal system that allowed it.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I mean the lawsuits did definitely push it over

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<v Speaker 4>the edge. But but Gary Ginsler has been a fan

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<v Speaker 4>of bitcoin all along. He's working under, you know, and

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<v Speaker 4>an administration that doesn't want to allow it, primarily coming

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<v Speaker 4>from the Senate, coming from Elizabeth Warren, who's on the

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<v Speaker 4>Senate Banking Committee, which is the most you know, powerful

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<v Speaker 4>organization in the Senate when it comes to regulating things

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<v Speaker 4>like banks and bitcoin, but and and the sec. But

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<v Speaker 4>I believe that Gary Ginsler has been wanting this all along,

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<v Speaker 4>and he's been asked to hold off. So I've I've

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<v Speaker 4>been a fan. We've gotten a big quarte.

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<v Speaker 3>Are you a fan?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, you know, I'm not going to make any predictions.

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<v Speaker 1>The Jewish Tom Wood says prophecies were for the full right.

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<v Speaker 1>But but I will remind people that when Gary Ginsler,

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<v Speaker 1>again to echo Steve, when Gary Ganster was appointed, the

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<v Speaker 1>industry celebrated. The industry thought he was a bit of

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<v Speaker 1>a messiah. He taught, of course, it was a professor

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<v Speaker 1>at MIT for blockchain. So I'll just remind people that

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<v Speaker 1>whoever gets appointed next, like, it gets more complicated when

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<v Speaker 1>someone is in the position. There's a lot of interests

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<v Speaker 1>in politics you need to cater to, you know, knowne

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<v Speaker 1>as a messiah. But I think there's generally I thin

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<v Speaker 1>I think I speak for the industry for many industry,

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<v Speaker 1>and I say that the general sentiment is that whoever wins,

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<v Speaker 1>things are going to be different after the elections. It's

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<v Speaker 1>in part because the crypto industry has organized and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, you talk about all the money that crypto

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<v Speaker 1>has been pouring into this. Crypto is not making this up.

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<v Speaker 1>It's just joining a lot of other industries that are

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<v Speaker 1>doing that as well, right, But it's also it's more

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<v Speaker 1>than that. It's it's also that people want this. I

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<v Speaker 1>mentioned one out of seven likely voters according to a

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<v Speaker 1>survey by what do.

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<v Speaker 3>They wanted for that? Because I think there's still a

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<v Speaker 3>debate about what exactly is it. Well, I don't see

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of people transacting with it.

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<v Speaker 1>True, and there's still a lot of development of various

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<v Speaker 1>use cases and products. But I think that you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, people want to try new things, and and

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<v Speaker 1>also sometimes it's not necessarily the role of the government

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<v Speaker 1>to ask why do they want it, you know, I

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<v Speaker 1>think one fundamental reason why the Senate should care for

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<v Speaker 1>this is because it's innovation and we're trying new things.

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<v Speaker 1>We're challenging things that you know, the traditional financial industry.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not saying that all of this will replace traditional finance,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's already pushing very you know, old incumbenty institutions

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<v Speaker 1>to think differently, to try differently. I don't necessarily think

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<v Speaker 1>all of us will be paying each other in bitcoin.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think that's the point. I think the point

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<v Speaker 1>is giving giving opportunities to create, to offer people more

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<v Speaker 1>ways to engage with finance, more decentralized, less decentralized, more intermediate, less, less,

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<v Speaker 1>more disintermediated. Uh and and why do people want it?

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<v Speaker 1>There are a lot of different reasons. I mentioned inflation, hedge,

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<v Speaker 1>I mentioned just curiosity. But is that really an important question?

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<v Speaker 1>If the people want it?

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<v Speaker 2>We only have like ten seconds left, So one word

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<v Speaker 2>answers from each of you. Who's better for crypto Harris

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<v Speaker 2>or Trump?

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<v Speaker 4>Trump?

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<v Speaker 1>By a mile?

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<v Speaker 2>Harris or Trump.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not going to pick aside. I'm also not going

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<v Speaker 1>to disagree, but I will say that the industry has

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<v Speaker 1>to be a nonpartisan here. This is too important to

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<v Speaker 1>make his political. The Democrats have been catching up with

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<v Speaker 1>their farm attacks since Harris was nominated, and whoever wins,

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<v Speaker 1>they made a lot of promises that they need to

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<v Speaker 1>fulfill to our industry.

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<v Speaker 3>Would say it also has to be global in terms

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<v Speaker 3>of the approach and make sure that they're working with

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<v Speaker 3>global leaders. Steve mclerk and Horad, thank you so much.