1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,680
Speaker 1: Today's episode of Stuff You Missed In History Class is

2
00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,920
Speaker 1: brought to you by Tracker. Tracker is finding more than

3
00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:09,319
Speaker 1: a million misplaced items each day. Order yours and never

4
00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:12,680
Speaker 1: lose anything again. Listeners to this show get a free

5
00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:17,160
Speaker 1: Tracker Bravo with any order. Go to the Tracker dot

6
00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:20,160
Speaker 1: com and inner promo code history. The hardest thing you'll

7
00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:22,680
Speaker 1: ever have to find is their website. Go to the

8
00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:26,480
Speaker 1: Tracker dot com right now and in a promo code

9
00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:30,400
Speaker 1: history for your free Tracker Bravo with any order. Again,

10
00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:35,640
Speaker 1: that's the Tracker dot Com promo code History. Welcome to

11
00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:38,640
Speaker 1: Stuff You Missed in History Class from how Stuff Works

12
00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:47,480
Speaker 1: dot com. Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly

13
00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:51,599
Speaker 1: Fry and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. We recently were invited

14
00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:54,600
Speaker 1: to appear on a broadcast of Georgia Public Broadcastings All

15
00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:56,720
Speaker 1: Things Considered, and while we were on the roof of

16
00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:59,880
Speaker 1: our building, which is pot City Market, doing that appear,

17
00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:03,400
Speaker 1: we met through the radio staff a historian who knows

18
00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:06,440
Speaker 1: a whole lot about the history of this building and

19
00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:10,120
Speaker 1: the Sears company. His name is Jerry. He was gracious

20
00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:12,759
Speaker 1: enough to come visit Holly in the studio and share

21
00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:16,000
Speaker 1: some really fun stories about the building where our podcast

22
00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,839
Speaker 1: is headquartered, which started out as a Sears Roebuck building.

23
00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:22,560
Speaker 1: There's a lot of discussion of Sears as a company

24
00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:24,520
Speaker 1: through the years, and a little bit of wish book

25
00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:28,759
Speaker 1: nostalgia for some appropriate holiday nows. Yes, so we'll jump

26
00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:32,959
Speaker 1: right into my discussion with Jerry Hancock about Sears and

27
00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:42,759
Speaker 1: the Pont City Market building. Today. We are lucky enough

28
00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:47,080
Speaker 1: to have in studio historian and history teacher Jerry Hancock.

29
00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:50,760
Speaker 1: How Terry, just grand I'm so glad you're here. I'm

30
00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:54,800
Speaker 1: looking forward to it. So first off, so we could

31
00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:57,320
Speaker 1: kind of talk about who you are. You are a

32
00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:01,040
Speaker 1: high school history teacher. Pretty cool job. So first off,

33
00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:04,800
Speaker 1: thank you for being an educator. All the teachers need

34
00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:07,640
Speaker 1: all of the love in my opinion. But what is

35
00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:12,839
Speaker 1: that like on a day to day basis. It's um,

36
00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:14,919
Speaker 1: It's one of those things, you know, so you feel

37
00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,600
Speaker 1: like a cog in the machine. Unfortunately, that's the part

38
00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:19,399
Speaker 1: of the job that I don't like. I as long

39
00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:21,000
Speaker 1: as my door is closed and it's just me and

40
00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:26,400
Speaker 1: my students, I'm happiest. It's the politicians and businessmen and

41
00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:28,760
Speaker 1: bureaucracy that's out in the hall. That's the part that

42
00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:32,079
Speaker 1: I don't really have a lot of patients for. Luckily,

43
00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,880
Speaker 1: I'm at a school that performs academically fairly well, and

44
00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:38,919
Speaker 1: so I have a lot more sort of freedom. I

45
00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,720
Speaker 1: don't have people breathing down my back. You know, I

46
00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:43,639
Speaker 1: was a Teacher of the Year a couple of years ago,

47
00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:48,440
Speaker 1: and it's thank you. It's been Uh it's very rewarding job.

48
00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:53,760
Speaker 1: Obviously not monetarily, but nobody goes into it for that purpose.

49
00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:57,680
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's rewarding. You know. Everybody always says, well,

50
00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,320
Speaker 1: why do you do it? And it's I say, it's

51
00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,440
Speaker 1: the light bulb. Yeah, that's it. When when the kid

52
00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:05,560
Speaker 1: gets it, when it snaps and you see that light

53
00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:11,120
Speaker 1: bulb come on, There's no trophy or metal or anything

54
00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,240
Speaker 1: that could get to you know how rewarding that is.

55
00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:16,520
Speaker 1: You know, you did something, you brought something to life

56
00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:18,840
Speaker 1: for this kid and they they appreciate it at that

57
00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:23,160
Speaker 1: point so well, and you're shaping the future. I mean,

58
00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,480
Speaker 1: that's like a weighty I don't think people always recognize

59
00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:29,040
Speaker 1: that that's really what teachers are doing. And I and

60
00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:31,919
Speaker 1: I'm very blunt with my students. I'm very honest with him.

61
00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:33,840
Speaker 1: I think that's a big part of the rapport that

62
00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:36,160
Speaker 1: I have with my kids is I shoot him straight.

63
00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:38,720
Speaker 1: And on that note, I say, you know, you guys

64
00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:43,080
Speaker 1: will be changing my diapers at some point. That's the

65
00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:47,040
Speaker 1: kind of dedication we're gonna need here and that reality.

66
00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:50,320
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, maybe not literally, but figuratively speaking, you

67
00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:52,720
Speaker 1: are going to be taking care of my generation when

68
00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:55,440
Speaker 1: we get too old and feeble. At least I hope

69
00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,280
Speaker 1: if I do my job right, you will be there correct.

70
00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:01,520
Speaker 1: And so yeah, you know, it's the old adage think

71
00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,000
Speaker 1: globally but act locally. I just try and follow that

72
00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:06,120
Speaker 1: every day when I get out of bed and say, okay,

73
00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:08,240
Speaker 1: I might not fix the world's problems, but I can

74
00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:11,880
Speaker 1: this little microcosm that I'm a part of. Is you know,

75
00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:14,080
Speaker 1: I'm going to have some positive influence on that. And

76
00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:16,400
Speaker 1: so you know, it's easy to get to work, and

77
00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:19,479
Speaker 1: I have to get up at five every day. That's part.

78
00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:23,960
Speaker 1: Thank you. Five am at work by six thirty. Hats

79
00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:26,880
Speaker 1: off to you from that. So I have to wonder,

80
00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,480
Speaker 1: since we talk about history all the time, what is

81
00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:34,200
Speaker 1: the biggest challenge for you sort of in the education system,

82
00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:36,159
Speaker 1: but also just on a one in one basis in

83
00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:38,960
Speaker 1: terms of getting kids to engage with history, because it

84
00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:40,760
Speaker 1: does not have a good rap with kids, No, not

85
00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,320
Speaker 1: at all. And you know, luckily these days we don't

86
00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:46,240
Speaker 1: teach names and dates anymore. It's more it's it's more

87
00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:50,880
Speaker 1: conceptual learning. And so I've always sort of, you know,

88
00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:53,480
Speaker 1: been a storyteller, and I always find some sort of

89
00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:56,920
Speaker 1: creative way. I think the real keys relevance. You've got

90
00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:59,279
Speaker 1: to make it relevant to their young mind. And do

91
00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:01,520
Speaker 1: they really are about these crusty old white guys and

92
00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:04,560
Speaker 1: yellow pieces of paper from the seventeen hundreds. Probably not.

93
00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:07,760
Speaker 1: But if you can explain that in a way that

94
00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:11,680
Speaker 1: they understand it's still very impactful in their lives today,

95
00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:14,359
Speaker 1: then you got something, you know. I mean, I'm teaching

96
00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:20,280
Speaker 1: the eleventh grade kids. I'm still using Schoolhouse Rock. It's timeless.

97
00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:23,520
Speaker 1: You can't go wrong with Bob Doro. I mean, the

98
00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:26,000
Speaker 1: guy who started it was one of Miles Days, Miles

99
00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:29,840
Speaker 1: Davis's session musicians. He you know, co wrote with Miles Davis,

100
00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:33,560
Speaker 1: and he was brought in at ABC some executives. Kid

101
00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,720
Speaker 1: was having problems with his multiplication tables, and so Bob

102
00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:40,280
Speaker 1: Doro coming in. He wrote three is a Magic Numbers,

103
00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:43,120
Speaker 1: the first one he brought it to also immortalized by

104
00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:47,599
Speaker 1: De La Soul. I can't go wrong. It's timeless. Kids

105
00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:49,760
Speaker 1: still like it. I make that joke about De La Soul,

106
00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:53,400
Speaker 1: but it speaks to the level of engagement that Schoolhouse

107
00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:57,440
Speaker 1: Rocks had. And I mean I still can singue the

108
00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:01,720
Speaker 1: verb songs. I love all of those, and they were

109
00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:04,800
Speaker 1: very soulful. Like the music writing was excellent. I mean

110
00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:12,360
Speaker 1: ed A James doing you know, suffering until suffrage. For me,

111
00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:17,440
Speaker 1: it doesn't, which is just wonderful. Not do kids today

112
00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:19,800
Speaker 1: love it or they like this animation looks weird. They

113
00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:22,120
Speaker 1: wouldn't admit that they love it, but they love it.

114
00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,400
Speaker 1: I had two students who were chorus students. They were

115
00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:28,040
Speaker 1: out for some sort of trip and missed a test

116
00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:30,400
Speaker 1: last week and they came in. And my son comes

117
00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:32,280
Speaker 1: to work with me every morning, catches the bus at

118
00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:35,120
Speaker 1: my school to go to his school, and he was

119
00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:37,400
Speaker 1: in there, and every morning we have cartoons on. And

120
00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:40,039
Speaker 1: he loves Schoolhouse Rock, you know, as a seven year old,

121
00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:42,520
Speaker 1: and knows most of the songs. So I had Schoolhouse

122
00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:44,480
Speaker 1: Rock on while I'm stored of getting my day started

123
00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:47,080
Speaker 1: and these two students come in to make up their tests.

124
00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:50,120
Speaker 1: So I had a seven year old and two teenagers

125
00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:55,880
Speaker 1: all singing Schoolhouse Rock together in unison, and you realize

126
00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:58,760
Speaker 1: you've had an impact at that point. This is so

127
00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:03,239
Speaker 1: easy for people to engage. But again, I think making

128
00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:08,279
Speaker 1: it relevant for kids, and you know, before the economic

129
00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:11,440
Speaker 1: collapse two thousand and eight, two thousand nine, kids didn't

130
00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:13,960
Speaker 1: really care about the Great Depression. But let me tell you,

131
00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:17,160
Speaker 1: now that they've seen their family lose their jobs and

132
00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:19,640
Speaker 1: their homes, they have a new appreciation for it and

133
00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:21,960
Speaker 1: so much easier to teach now because it's so real,

134
00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:24,760
Speaker 1: it's relevant, they get it, they understand why it's important,

135
00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,000
Speaker 1: and so you know, those types of things are easy.

136
00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:31,120
Speaker 1: This being an election year has been Wow. It's amazing

137
00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:34,040
Speaker 1: to see it. Kids in eleventh grade be so dedicated

138
00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:37,200
Speaker 1: to certain ideals. It's it does the heart good. So

139
00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:40,280
Speaker 1: I'm also just going to run in my head for

140
00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:42,960
Speaker 1: the next probably two weeks, a mental image of a

141
00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:46,080
Speaker 1: band of a seven year old and two sixteen year

142
00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:50,680
Speaker 1: olds doing a cover of InterPlaNet Janet. That's it for me.

143
00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:53,760
Speaker 1: That's just where we're at. We're gonna switch gears a

144
00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:56,920
Speaker 1: little and talk about something you're an expert about, which

145
00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:00,480
Speaker 1: is Sear's history. That's sort of my thing, which is

146
00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,800
Speaker 1: a fascinating thing to be focused on as a historian.

147
00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:08,680
Speaker 1: How did you first become interested in that subject? UM?

148
00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:11,520
Speaker 1: When I first went back to college and undergraduate, my

149
00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:14,560
Speaker 1: first couple of years, I was an English major, and

150
00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:17,400
Speaker 1: UM had a professor down at Georgia State, Dr John

151
00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:21,480
Speaker 1: Burris and who's still there, UM, who taught a class

152
00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,560
Speaker 1: on Georgia folk life. It was actually part of the

153
00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:30,080
Speaker 1: English department, and UM, the historical element of that class

154
00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:31,960
Speaker 1: just had such an impact on me, and I always

155
00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:34,400
Speaker 1: joked with him that he was the reason that I

156
00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:40,600
Speaker 1: switched to history. But Um, in studying English, and then

157
00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:44,600
Speaker 1: excuse me, going into history, I noticed that there were

158
00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:48,760
Speaker 1: so many mentions of Seers as this integral part of

159
00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:52,679
Speaker 1: Southern culture. And the company was based out of Chicago,

160
00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:58,160
Speaker 1: and it amazed me how Southern culture sort of absorbed sears.

161
00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:02,400
Speaker 1: It became one of them. And I could not find

162
00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:06,120
Speaker 1: any sort of regional studies on sears, so I started

163
00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:08,720
Speaker 1: just sort of dabbling in that. After undergraduate, I went

164
00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:12,760
Speaker 1: straight into the graduate program in Georgia State, and um,

165
00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:14,760
Speaker 1: I was trying to come up with an idea for

166
00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:19,960
Speaker 1: a master's thesis and one of my colleagues said, uh, well,

167
00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,959
Speaker 1: you better make it something you love or you're gonna

168
00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:28,360
Speaker 1: hate it. And I said, okay, well, and there was

169
00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:31,600
Speaker 1: I have been a've been collecting Star Wars action figure

170
00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:35,720
Speaker 1: since ninety eight and after my heart, one of my

171
00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:38,560
Speaker 1: favorite action figures was the blue Snaggle Tooth that was

172
00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:43,560
Speaker 1: only available in the Sears Wish book. That was the thing.

173
00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:47,320
Speaker 1: And I said, well, that's it. You know, it's Sears.

174
00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:50,040
Speaker 1: It's it's sort of what I like. Maybe I can

175
00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:52,000
Speaker 1: just do this Sears thing because I had, you know,

176
00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:54,920
Speaker 1: like I said, had been collecting nuggets through you know,

177
00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:58,320
Speaker 1: the different English classes and history classes that I've been

178
00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:00,280
Speaker 1: taken at Georgia State. So I just I had to

179
00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:04,040
Speaker 1: go that direction, and you know it, Uh, it really blossomed.

180
00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:06,240
Speaker 1: I came into this building the first time in two

181
00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:09,880
Speaker 1: thousand five. Um. The interesting about interesting thing about it

182
00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:12,320
Speaker 1: was is that when the City of Atlanta bought this

183
00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:17,000
Speaker 1: property in the maintenance team that had worked as property

184
00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:21,480
Speaker 1: years under Sears came with the building. Oh I did

185
00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:24,280
Speaker 1: not know. So they had this group of guys gentleman

186
00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:27,720
Speaker 1: by the name of Jim Ricketts and his crew sort

187
00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:31,240
Speaker 1: of changed hands with the property and they knew every

188
00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:34,600
Speaker 1: square inch of this building. And uh, one of his

189
00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:37,800
Speaker 1: crew members who will remain remain remain nameless. Uh, I

190
00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:40,679
Speaker 1: promised that I'd never mentioned his name because they were

191
00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,200
Speaker 1: so concerned that, oh my god, it was Sears might

192
00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:47,480
Speaker 1: take my retirement because they've got such an amazing retirement

193
00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:49,760
Speaker 1: or or did back in those days through the profit

194
00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:52,319
Speaker 1: sharing program. And so he took me around the building

195
00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:54,280
Speaker 1: and up into the tower and all back when the

196
00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:58,560
Speaker 1: city still owned it. And uh, that sort of became

197
00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,880
Speaker 1: a big part of my intent as this package of

198
00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,160
Speaker 1: regional study. And I ended up going to Hoffmanna, States,

199
00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:08,400
Speaker 1: to Sears corporate offices up there on two different occasions,

200
00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:11,720
Speaker 1: just to do research, uh, with an incredible archivist by

201
00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:13,680
Speaker 1: the name of Arlene May, who is no longer with

202
00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:17,920
Speaker 1: the company because in their constant downsizing and trimming, I

203
00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:20,640
Speaker 1: think she she was laid off in two thousand nine.

204
00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:23,120
Speaker 1: But I went. I did a trip in two thousand

205
00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:26,480
Speaker 1: five and in oh seven, and basically just sort of

206
00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:29,840
Speaker 1: took that as a barometer anything to do with Southern

207
00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:34,760
Speaker 1: culture agriculture and found a wealth of information about the

208
00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:38,160
Speaker 1: old farmers market here on the back lot, and um,

209
00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:40,200
Speaker 1: you know some of the different programs that they had

210
00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,400
Speaker 1: in place to help farmers, particularly in the South, because

211
00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:46,040
Speaker 1: the South was, you know, still struggling in this sort

212
00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:51,080
Speaker 1: of post reconstruction period where they're trying to economically and

213
00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,160
Speaker 1: industrially catch up with the rest of the nation. And

214
00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:58,240
Speaker 1: Sears came in at just that right moment um what

215
00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:00,760
Speaker 1: was known as the Forward Atlantic Campaign the mid twenties,

216
00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:05,600
Speaker 1: and uh, they had already researched the area, and UH,

217
00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:08,720
Speaker 1: the third president of the company, General Robert E. Wood,

218
00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:12,520
Speaker 1: he came in and understood that the automobile was central

219
00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:15,600
Speaker 1: to this new face that Sears, the old mail order

220
00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:19,160
Speaker 1: Sears is now turning into this new retail Sears, and

221
00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:21,160
Speaker 1: he was a big part of that transition. And so

222
00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:24,280
Speaker 1: I decided to focus on this building and everything that

223
00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:26,680
Speaker 1: it sort of represented it and it was like peeling

224
00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:28,960
Speaker 1: an onion. It just got deeper and deeper. Fun and

225
00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,400
Speaker 1: you know, these different industrial investments that Sears made in

226
00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:35,720
Speaker 1: hundreds of factories in the Southeast so that they could

227
00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:41,080
Speaker 1: eliminate the transportation cost they were buying from local manufacturers

228
00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,400
Speaker 1: and selling to local customers. They operated in what was

229
00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,839
Speaker 1: called the territorial system. The country was divided into five territories,

230
00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:52,200
Speaker 1: and each one sort of operated autonomously, so they were

231
00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:54,559
Speaker 1: much more engaged with the people of the region. They

232
00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:58,640
Speaker 1: served their wants, their needs, and I think giving them

233
00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:02,680
Speaker 1: that autonomy really helped Sears sort of reach out to

234
00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:04,600
Speaker 1: their market in the region, and I think was sort

235
00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:06,640
Speaker 1: of the reason it became so beloved in the culture.

236
00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,320
Speaker 1: I love it. And you spoke about this building and

237
00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:12,880
Speaker 1: for our listeners that may not know, the building we

238
00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,160
Speaker 1: are sitting in, which is called Pont City Market now

239
00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:18,959
Speaker 1: uh is a historical building. It was at one point

240
00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:22,280
Speaker 1: the the Seer's Robuck Building, and we're going to talk

241
00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:24,920
Speaker 1: about that and a whole lot more about Sears history

242
00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:27,200
Speaker 1: and this property's history. But first we are gonna pause

243
00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:31,559
Speaker 1: and have a word from one of our sponsors. That

244
00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:34,720
Speaker 1: sponsor is Carnivore Club, which is a cured meat of

245
00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:37,520
Speaker 1: the month club that delivers right to your door yummy,

246
00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,720
Speaker 1: delicious things. I can tell you from experience, you don't

247
00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:43,400
Speaker 1: have to be that boring person who gives people gifts

248
00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:45,960
Speaker 1: that are either last minute or like the gift you

249
00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:50,120
Speaker 1: just couldn't find the right gift situation. Don't do that. Instead,

250
00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,400
Speaker 1: you could give a gift that people are talking about.

251
00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:55,880
Speaker 1: That is the gift of cured meats. Carnivore Club is

252
00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:59,880
Speaker 1: the world's first subscription service dedicated to delivering premium cured

253
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:03,160
Speaker 1: eats right to your door. They are handcrafted by local

254
00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:06,680
Speaker 1: artisans for a one of a kind taste experience, uniting

255
00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:10,720
Speaker 1: meat lovers everywhere. I certainly loved my box. I joked

256
00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:13,120
Speaker 1: with producer Nol that it was like getting a parcel

257
00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:18,079
Speaker 1: of delicious pork candy because it was also yummy. So

258
00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:21,080
Speaker 1: Carnival Club has both one time gift orders and long

259
00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:24,440
Speaker 1: term subscriptions available. And if you go to Carnivore Club

260
00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,520
Speaker 1: dot c o now and place your order using promo

261
00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:30,920
Speaker 1: code history, you're gonna get fifteen percent off. So head

262
00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:33,920
Speaker 1: to Carnivore Club dot c o to discover the latest

263
00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,880
Speaker 1: and greatest on offer from the only club for true

264
00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:40,720
Speaker 1: meat lovers. Use promo code history and get fifteen percent off.

265
00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,760
Speaker 1: It is the best Christmas present idea you have ever

266
00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:52,680
Speaker 1: gotten from a podcast. First, I have to ask you,

267
00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:56,520
Speaker 1: because we always always always get asked about how we

268
00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:58,960
Speaker 1: research and what our research tips are. So I'm wondering

269
00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:02,640
Speaker 1: what or tips might be for people who are interested

270
00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:05,960
Speaker 1: in corporate history in terms of how they can start

271
00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:09,080
Speaker 1: digging into a company's past and finding all of the

272
00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:13,080
Speaker 1: little yummy gym's um. I can't say that it was

273
00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,480
Speaker 1: an easy experience, and I think a large part of

274
00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:20,760
Speaker 1: that was, you know, not only the corporate aspects of

275
00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:26,360
Speaker 1: of researching, but the fact that Sears is downsizing rapidly,

276
00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:31,640
Speaker 1: uh some would say imploding, and so that has made

277
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:35,880
Speaker 1: it very difficult, not only in the research aspects, because

278
00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:38,320
Speaker 1: as I mentioned before, they had an archivists out there

279
00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:40,840
Speaker 1: at Hoffman Estates and she was the one that maintained

280
00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:43,880
Speaker 1: the Sears history website. If you've ever been on there,

281
00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:47,960
Speaker 1: she maintained that kept up with literally hundreds of emails

282
00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:50,400
Speaker 1: a day from all over the world coming in asking

283
00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:56,480
Speaker 1: questions about this corporate juggernaut. And she was such a

284
00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:59,560
Speaker 1: steward of the history of the company. And I don't

285
00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:01,720
Speaker 1: even know that she came from a history background, but

286
00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:05,720
Speaker 1: she certainly appreciated that. And then shortly after they hired

287
00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:10,000
Speaker 1: her was the acquisition between Sears and Kmart. So not

288
00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:15,160
Speaker 1: only do you have one archivist for this century old company,

289
00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,360
Speaker 1: but now she's the archivist for s R for Kmart

290
00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:21,560
Speaker 1: as well, and so she's got these two corporate entities

291
00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:24,960
Speaker 1: that she's trying to curate. I can't even imagine the

292
00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:29,400
Speaker 1: stress of that job. But she said it's so cool.

293
00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,600
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, she um my first trip up.

294
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,680
Speaker 1: She really wowed me because I sort of gave her

295
00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:37,960
Speaker 1: an idea and she ran with it. And I walked

296
00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:40,360
Speaker 1: into the archives and she's got you know, three roller

297
00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:43,160
Speaker 1: carts full of boxes, and on top of one of

298
00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:47,440
Speaker 1: them as a leather bound ledger that Richard Sears and

299
00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:51,080
Speaker 1: Alva Roebuck used to keep the books in. And as

300
00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:54,360
Speaker 1: the rumor has it, Richard Sears was a very fly

301
00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:56,760
Speaker 1: by the seat of your pants kind of guy, and

302
00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:59,640
Speaker 1: it was certainly apparent in this ledger with you know,

303
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:03,600
Speaker 1: mark works and scratches and x is on pages. It

304
00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:07,520
Speaker 1: was a very chaotic way of business. H Richard Sears

305
00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:13,119
Speaker 1: was He's been called barnem Esque and his salesmanship sort

306
00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:15,800
Speaker 1: of the you know, the P. T. Barnum of the

307
00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:20,360
Speaker 1: retail and mail order world, and he really did it

308
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:23,239
Speaker 1: was all about the wow factor. He would, you know,

309
00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:26,879
Speaker 1: place an add in one of the catalogs for a

310
00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:33,680
Speaker 1: pair of men's suit pants for a dollar fifty and

311
00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,760
Speaker 1: would take in thousands of orders without even having the

312
00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:42,960
Speaker 1: product on hand. And then he scrambles around Chicago looking

313
00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:48,160
Speaker 1: for manufacturers to get this product made as rapidly as

314
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,280
Speaker 1: possible because he's got thousands of orders on standby waiting

315
00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:53,840
Speaker 1: for it. That was the kind of business practices that

316
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:57,399
Speaker 1: he engaged in. One of the men that he UH

317
00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:00,320
Speaker 1: started working with was the second president of the company,

318
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:04,639
Speaker 1: Julius Rosenwald, who UH was a Jewish merchant in Chicago

319
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:08,399
Speaker 1: and was dealing with one of these frantic orders that

320
00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:13,280
Speaker 1: Richard Sears needed filled. And UM he actually first met

321
00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:19,000
Speaker 1: with Rosenwald's cousin who invented the pneumatic tube system in

322
00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:21,720
Speaker 1: factories and plants around the country, and he was trying

323
00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:23,920
Speaker 1: to get Sears to use this as a way to

324
00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,399
Speaker 1: sort of streamline UH taking in and filling their orders.

325
00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:32,120
Speaker 1: And Um Rosenwald sort of came in as part investor

326
00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:35,600
Speaker 1: in this thing as Alva Roebuck was sort of exiting

327
00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,160
Speaker 1: the building, and we'll come back to him. He's got

328
00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:42,199
Speaker 1: an interesting story as well. But Rosenwald came in and

329
00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:45,640
Speaker 1: he was sort of the the human element of the company.

330
00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:49,840
Speaker 1: He took Richard Sears sort of grandiose style and sort

331
00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:54,600
Speaker 1: of tried to make it um a little more fluid

332
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:58,080
Speaker 1: and taking filling orders, but also sort of reaching out

333
00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:00,720
Speaker 1: to people. This was in early twenties centas the progressive

334
00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:04,440
Speaker 1: eras first starting to move and UH. Rosenwald was getting

335
00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,719
Speaker 1: on up in years and philanthropy. Like many millionaires at

336
00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:11,240
Speaker 1: the time, philanthropy became a hobby and it was through

337
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:16,320
Speaker 1: his philanthropy that I think Sears really sort of cemented

338
00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:20,800
Speaker 1: its relationship, particularly with the South. Rosenwald was responsible for

339
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:24,760
Speaker 1: starting the Series Agricultural Foundation, which really did a lot

340
00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:28,480
Speaker 1: of things through Atlanta specifically like the farmers Market that

341
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:31,960
Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier. But he also worked directly with book

342
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:35,520
Speaker 1: Or T Washington and Tuskegee Institute UH with not only

343
00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:39,640
Speaker 1: cash donations but merchandise donations for the students at Tuskegee UH,

344
00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:44,159
Speaker 1: and started working through book Or T Washington UH and

345
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:49,040
Speaker 1: establishing funding to start schools for African American children in

346
00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:53,919
Speaker 1: the Southeast. And it started off as UH an initial

347
00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:57,840
Speaker 1: investment on the part of Rosenwald and started four schools

348
00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:03,080
Speaker 1: and within fifteen years bloomed. Almost five thousand schools in

349
00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:06,879
Speaker 1: the Southeast became known as the Rosenwald schools. And you know,

350
00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:10,639
Speaker 1: even though it's very hard to track that information, it

351
00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,240
Speaker 1: was very aware of the people they were serving that

352
00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:16,159
Speaker 1: this man was with Sears. And from some of the

353
00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:17,919
Speaker 1: stuff that I've read, a lot of people thought it

354
00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:21,240
Speaker 1: was Mr Sears because he was He's like Santa Claus

355
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:26,000
Speaker 1: at this point, Mr Sears, And so I think that

356
00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:30,200
Speaker 1: Rosenwald was very conscious of this image. And when Sears,

357
00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:34,480
Speaker 1: Richard Sears leaves the company UH in the nineteen teens,

358
00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,919
Speaker 1: Rosenwald was very careful to keep that quiet. He wanted

359
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:41,679
Speaker 1: that persona. He kept his transition of power very quiet.

360
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:45,840
Speaker 1: But nonetheless he's coming to the Southeast and starting these schools,

361
00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:48,240
Speaker 1: and people realize, Okay, this guy is with Sears Roebuck.

362
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:52,840
Speaker 1: I'm certain because of the nature of Jim Crow South

363
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:56,959
Speaker 1: at the time. This gives African Americans in the Southeast

364
00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:06,240
Speaker 1: some degree of UH autonomy, UH, some degree of of secrecy.

365
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,560
Speaker 1: Now they can buy the same thing that anybody else

366
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,800
Speaker 1: can buy, and all they have to do is order

367
00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:14,359
Speaker 1: it through this catalog. They don't have to deal with

368
00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:17,359
Speaker 1: racist merchants in town and those types of things. And

369
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,679
Speaker 1: I genuinely believe that, Uh, Like I said, even though

370
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:24,440
Speaker 1: it's very hard to track, I'm sure African Americans in

371
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:26,760
Speaker 1: the Southeast were dedicated Sears customers through most of the

372
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:30,159
Speaker 1: twentieth century because of the contributions A part of Julius

373
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:34,520
Speaker 1: Rosenwalts I had never thought about how mail order allowed

374
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:40,960
Speaker 1: people to sidestep prejudice. That's amazing. So you've got these people,

375
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 1: and that was the thing. You know. You hear stories

376
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,040
Speaker 1: of African Americans dealing with merchants in town and they're

377
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:51,320
Speaker 1: only shown the cheapest items, uh, and not no customer

378
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,280
Speaker 1: service to speak of. Sears has a hundred percent money

379
00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,480
Speaker 1: by guarantee. We'll send it to you. If it doesn't work,

380
00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,680
Speaker 1: send it back and we'll send you something else. You know. Again,

381
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:04,840
Speaker 1: it gave them some degree of privacy and what items

382
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:08,760
Speaker 1: they were buying for their families. I'm just so connected

383
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,400
Speaker 1: because it's a really it's an amazing connection I never

384
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,840
Speaker 1: once would have thought of, which almost maybe supplants the

385
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:16,639
Speaker 1: question I was going to ask next, which is what

386
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:20,400
Speaker 1: is sort of the most surprising little jim you've encountered

387
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:27,240
Speaker 1: in your Sears scholarship really just how much interest Sears

388
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:31,040
Speaker 1: had in the South. Again. The third president of the

389
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:35,439
Speaker 1: company who came in after Rosenwald, actually Rosenwald hired Robert E. Wood.

390
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:41,240
Speaker 1: Robert E. Wood was an acquisitions manager in the Panama

391
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,120
Speaker 1: Canal project. He was in the military, which is why

392
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,240
Speaker 1: they called him general And basically that was his job,

393
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 1: was seeking out huge quantities of raw materials UH for

394
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 1: the purposes of these large construction projects. And so it

395
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 1: sort of made him perfect for Sears in acquiring raw

396
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,919
Speaker 1: materials and manufactured goods at a very budget price so

397
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,600
Speaker 1: that they could turn a profit. And he came in.

398
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 1: He actually worked for Montgomery Ward originally, and the turn

399
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,120
Speaker 1: of the twentieth century. I think he saw the promise

400
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 1: of the automobile and the change in the retail environment

401
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:23,360
Speaker 1: and was trying to push Ward to do more retail

402
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 1: and Wards said, no, where a mail order company. We're

403
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:27,960
Speaker 1: going to dance with the one that brought us, and

404
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 1: finally fired Robert Would because he would not back off

405
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,440
Speaker 1: of this retail thing. And as soon as Rosenwald got

406
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,920
Speaker 1: word of this, he immediately hired him at Sears and

407
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 1: UH right out of the bat set up the territory

408
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 1: system in North America with the five territories in this

409
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 1: sort of autonomous way of doing business in each of

410
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:55,160
Speaker 1: the territories um and started this whole retail craze. Uh.

411
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 1: He was a big proponent of what he called ample

412
00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:01,200
Speaker 1: free parking. And so when Sears would open a store

413
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 1: like the one that was started here on constantly on,

414
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:06,439
Speaker 1: they would look for an area on the edge of

415
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 1: town that was accessible but land was still cheap, and

416
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,440
Speaker 1: they could have access to this ample free parking because

417
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:14,159
Speaker 1: he knew that the automobile was the way of the

418
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:19,400
Speaker 1: future and look what happened, so so so far ahead

419
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,239
Speaker 1: of his time, I think, and sort of understanding the

420
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 1: direction of retail and what it was doing at that moment. Well,

421
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,439
Speaker 1: especially when you think about the regional model, which has

422
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 1: been i mean perpetuated throughout all kinds of retail and

423
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:38,720
Speaker 1: sales across the country for decades since. And I'm pretty

424
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 1: certain he was at least one of the originators of

425
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,959
Speaker 1: that practice it. Uh. You know, like I said earlier,

426
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 1: I think it just gives the management within the company

427
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 1: in those regions a little more I mean, they were

428
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 1: very engaged in the Chamber of Commerce and Community service

429
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 1: and these types of things in Atlanta was certainly no exception. UM.

430
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 1: Once they came to Atlanta, obviously, you know they opened

431
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 1: this plan. UM. The original structure was seven fifty square

432
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 1: feet and the first thing they did for the opening

433
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 1: ceremonies was UH Sears had just a couple of years prior,

434
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,440
Speaker 1: UH acquired a radio station based out of Chicago, WLS,

435
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:20,160
Speaker 1: which called Understood for World's Largest Store, and they were

436
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 1: sort of on the brink, on the edge cutting edge

437
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:27,120
Speaker 1: of of radio technology and started going to smaller UH

438
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:31,119
Speaker 1: stations in different regions. In WSB. UH, they WLS actually

439
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 1: leased airtime from WSB. WSB brought a transmitter to the

440
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:39,959
Speaker 1: tower in this building, and UH not only broadcast live

441
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 1: from the tower for the opening ceremonies and the flag

442
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 1: raising on the tower and all those things, but continued

443
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,360
Speaker 1: to maintain a relationship for the next few years UM

444
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 1: in radio programming and what ultimately gave birth to country

445
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 1: music as we know it today. It's all I mean,

446
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 1: it's it's like gym after Jim UH. And you are

447
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 1: also in the midst of working on a book about

448
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 1: this property, Yes, about the building that we are literally

449
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 1: sitting in right now, which again I mentioned the name earlier.

450
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 1: It's Pont City Market. Will you talk a little bit

451
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 1: about that project, because you and I talked about it

452
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 1: a little bit, but it sounds amazing. Well once you know,

453
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,360
Speaker 1: I did my master's thesis through Georgia State and they

454
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:26,360
Speaker 1: still host that. Actually it's available online. UM, we will

455
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: put it in the show notes. Sure, sure. UM it's uh,

456
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,919
Speaker 1: it's sort of academic, and it's got some places that

457
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 1: are a little stuffy, but the second and third chapters

458
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,479
Speaker 1: in particular have been very popular with folks who's been

459
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 1: thousands of downloads of it. Uh. The second chapters primarily

460
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: looking at the regional business through this plant, and then

461
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 1: the third chapter is more of an oral history element. UM.

462
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,120
Speaker 1: As I mentioned before, my mentor Georgia State was Cliff Keun,

463
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: who was responsible for relocating the American um Oral History

464
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:04,160
Speaker 1: Association of America. UH there UH archives are at Georgia State. Now.

465
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 1: He brought that there and it's one of the great

466
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 1: oral historians. UH used to host a number of episodes

467
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 1: of This Day and History on Georgia Public Broadcasting and

468
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 1: was aware of a lot of these things, just little

469
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 1: pieces so he was he was central in helping me

470
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 1: sort of get these things together, making connections. UM. And

471
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 1: so obviously the oral history part is there not only uh,

472
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:32,719
Speaker 1: interviews with with former employees, regional employees and oral histories

473
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 1: that I collected in Chicago, but also, uh, one of

474
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 1: the big things that I found in Chicago on my

475
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 1: first visit was a box full of correspondence from different

476
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 1: customers in the Southeast. And it is some of the

477
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 1: funniest Literally sitting in the archives cackling, tears running down

478
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 1: my face. Uh, some of the things that these people

479
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,399
Speaker 1: they really did. They all Richard Sears of Santa Claus.

480
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 1: They wrote in looking for a wife. Uh. They then

481
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 1: he wrote in one man wrote in about his child.

482
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,119
Speaker 1: He had ordered uh something from the patent medicine section

483
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:16,400
Speaker 1: that was apparently marketed as birth control, and ordered two

484
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,640
Speaker 1: tubes of it. And now he has a seven pound

485
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 1: baby girl and he calls it his Sears Sears baby

486
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 1: and thanks that Sears owes her at least a blanket

487
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:31,440
Speaker 1: or something. Uh, you know, just some of the funniest things. Um.

488
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 1: And so that's in the third chapter of the thesis.

489
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 1: But that certainly was sort of the nucleus of how

490
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 1: this thing started to unravel. Um, the people of Jamestown

491
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 1: when they bought the property, had found my research and

492
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 1: just dug into it. And coincidentally, um another sort of

493
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 1: local neighborhood cheerleader ahead of the old Fourth Ward Association,

494
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 1: Kits Sutherland, she lives right across the street. Uh. Kit

495
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 1: basically reached out to me and helped get me in

496
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 1: contact with Jamestown. And this was in two thousand eleven

497
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 1: when they bought the property and they brought me in. Uh.

498
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 1: They had the party at Potts which was in the

499
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 1: back parking lot with the Induego girls and Shaan Mullins.

500
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 1: They brought me in to lead some of the tours,

501
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 1: and I just got such a response. People are so

502
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: interested in the history of this building because it's become

503
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 1: such an institution here in Atlanta. You know, all the

504
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 1: years that I've driven by this building, we've come to

505
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 1: pay our speeding tickets or get our cars out of

506
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 1: him pound or whatever the case may be. And so

507
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 1: there was such an interest and it just really started

508
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 1: to take off. And I continue working with Jamestown sort

509
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 1: of as a historical consultant and provided a lot of photography.

510
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 1: I was on an elevator coming up here earlier, and

511
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: there's a picture on the elevator that I found in

512
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 1: my research in Chicago. So it's been sort of surreal

513
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 1: to watch this whole thing open up. Well, I sort

514
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 1: of found uh a partner in crime. Uh local photographer

515
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 1: by the name of Blake Burton. Uh. Blake is a

516
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 1: graduate from Georgia Tech and architecture and he graduated in

517
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: two thousand nine, just as the market began to tank,

518
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:09,959
Speaker 1: and was to have an architecture degree, and he was

519
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 1: somehow he had just moved up the street to an

520
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: apartment so he could get to classes at Georgia Tech

521
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 1: and got hired as an asset manager for the City

522
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: of Atlanta, and this was the building he worked in,

523
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 1: and so he came in in the fall two thousand nine. Uh,

524
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 1: just casually on his brakes, taking his camera around the

525
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 1: building and taking pictures of what this looked like. So

526
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 1: just for um context for listeners that don't know, this

527
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 1: building went through a period where it was owned by

528
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 1: the city and was like a government building where as

529
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: you said, you would come and pay your tickets. Uh,

530
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,959
Speaker 1: it's had a lot of wacky things in it at

531
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 1: various points of time, but just for a heads up.

532
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 1: That is why he was hired by the government was

533
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 1: working here in this building. The interesting thing was is

534
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: when City Hall East was in this building, they only

535
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 1: occupied about the total structure. The other sat like, uh,

536
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 1: like a time capsule almost. I remember walking into the

537
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 1: maintenance offices down in the basement where the old electrical

538
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 1: room used to be, and uh, just find blueprints of

539
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 1: the property from the nineteen forties, just randomly laying out

540
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 1: on tables. Um. I remember at one point when I

541
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 1: was doing the tours for Jamestown in two thousand eleven,

542
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 1: walked over into what looked like sort of a storage

543
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 1: area behind uh, one of the circuit breakers and found

544
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: a receipt and a wiring diagram for the old popcorn

545
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 1: machine that used to be at the candy counter, just

546
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 1: laying on the floor randomly. I mean, it literally was

547
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 1: like a time capsule. And it was so awesome to

548
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: be able to walk through this building in those dark

549
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 1: corners that people probably hadn't gone in in years. Um.

550
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 1: But Blake starts taking photographs of this and documenting it.

551
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 1: And then when Jamestown bought the property, uh, he spoke

552
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 1: with the folks at James Down and got permission to

553
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 1: come back into the building every two to three months

554
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 1: and continue what turned into a sort of a visual

555
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 1: documentary of the transition from this sort of you know,

556
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 1: junk storage and you know, cheesy nineteen sixties wood paneling

557
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 1: from certain places to this mixed use nexus on the

558
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 1: east side of Atlanta and documented. In fact, the last

559
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,719
Speaker 1: photograph that he took was from the top of the

560
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 1: bar looking down on the amusement park on the roof.

561
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 1: That's the final page of it, and it it's just

562
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 1: been amazing. And so he reached out to me. He

563
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 1: actually had had um Uh an art exhibit back here

564
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 1: where the Auto Center used to be, in one of

565
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: those spaces next to Dancing Goats Uh and had his

566
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 1: stuff on an exhibit there for about a month. And Uh.

567
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 1: One day I get this email and he's like, so,

568
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 1: I hear you're the history guy. And I was like, well,

569
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: it's sort of certainly seems that way lately. He said, well,

570
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 1: I'm in this book and I would really like to

571
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 1: document the history of this property. And so what I

572
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 1: did was sort of took you know, the basis of

573
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 1: my research for my master's thesis and sort of took

574
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 1: out the stuffy academic aspects of it and made it

575
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 1: a little more user friendly. Uh, and certainly you know,

576
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 1: supplemented areas where I had a lot of people ask

577
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 1: questions before and sort of tried to get this, you know, essay.

578
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 1: That sort of captured the evolution of this property from

579
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 1: before you know, the Sears plant was even here, back

580
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 1: when the old positively out amusement park was here, and

581
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: from that time basically through the Sears transition, through the

582
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 1: City Hall East transition, to the time that Jamestown took

583
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 1: control of the property and sort of you know, initiates

584
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 1: this renaissance of the building. And it's been it's been

585
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 1: a great ride. It's really been fun. I can imagine

586
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 1: we are going to talk some more about the building

587
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 1: and Sears, but first we're gonna pause once again for

588
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 1: a little sponsor break. So the holidays are really almost here,

589
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 1: and you probably, like us, do not have a lot

590
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 1: of time to go to the post office, what with

591
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,839
Speaker 1: all the traffic and the parking and the walking all

592
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 1: the way there. If you're like me, uh, it will

593
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:20,440
Speaker 1: be packed with everyone else who's all mailing their holiday

594
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: gifts and their packages, so you can use stamps dot

595
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,839
Speaker 1: com instead. With stamps dot com, you can avoid all

596
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,800
Speaker 1: the hassle of going to the post office during this busy,

597
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: busy holiday season. Everything you would do at the post

598
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 1: office you can instead do right from your desk. You

599
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 1: can buy and print official US postage using your own

600
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 1: computer and printer. Print postage for any letter or package

601
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 1: the instant you need it, and then just hand it

602
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 1: off to the person who delivers your mail. It is

603
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 1: easy and convenient. Right now, sign up for stamps dot

604
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:53,240
Speaker 1: com and use our promo code stuff for this special offer.

605
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 1: That's a four week trial plus a one dollar bonus

606
00:34:56,440 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 1: offer including postage and a digital scale. So don't wait.

607
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 1: Go to stamps dot com and before you do anything else,

608
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:05,760
Speaker 1: click on the microphone at the top of the homepage

609
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 1: and type in stuff that stamps dot com and enter stuff.

610
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,839
Speaker 1: So we are back to our discussion and Uh. One

611
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:19,799
Speaker 1: of the things that comes up a lot on our

612
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 1: show is pronunciation. So here in Atlanta we say Ponsta Leon.

613
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,319
Speaker 1: That's not really the way you would have pronounced it

614
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 1: if you were him. Uh, And to Atlanta residents though,

615
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 1: that is a very common name. A busy road that

616
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 1: serves as one of the city's major arteries is called

617
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 1: Posta Leon. And UH, what they may not know, although

618
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 1: it's it's become more common knowledge because of like your

619
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 1: work in part establishing the history of this property, is

620
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 1: that this property is a big reason why Post Leon

621
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 1: is a big part of Atlanta. It is. UH. In

622
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:59,479
Speaker 1: the eighteen sixties, as they were laying what is now

623
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 1: the belt line, the rail corridor, UH, that was between

624
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 1: this building and the neighboring building across the way, the

625
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 1: Ford Factory. UM. When they were building and laying that bed,

626
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:17,359
Speaker 1: they found UH, just at the northeast corner of this

627
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 1: building there's actually a service drive if you're looking at

628
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 1: the front of Pont City Market, all the way to

629
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 1: the left, in between the edge of the building and

630
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:29,439
Speaker 1: the neighboring rail bed where the belt line is located. UH,

631
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 1: they found two freshwater springs that came out of the

632
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 1: side of that hill. The spouts, best of my knowledge,

633
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 1: were about three ft apart. And they knew for a

634
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 1: fact that they came from two separate sources because one side,

635
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:47,359
Speaker 1: UH was colder and one side had more of a

636
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 1: sulfur smell. A local Atlanta doctor found that the rail

637
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: workers had been drinking this spring water UH for its

638
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 1: health benefits UH and eventually started bottling the water and

639
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 1: selling it here in Atlanta. Eventually the property was sold

640
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 1: to a local businessman by the name of John Armistead

641
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,399
Speaker 1: the Atlanta Street Railway Company, and that was a six

642
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,400
Speaker 1: he sold the property. UH. They were interested in the

643
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 1: property because it was at the far eastern end of

644
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 1: the eastbound trolley line and they wanted something at the

645
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 1: end of the line to encourage writers to go all

646
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 1: the way to the end, and this property sat there. UH.

647
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 1: So it's the intersection of the airline railway which is

648
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 1: now the belt Line and the old trolley line that

649
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:41,279
Speaker 1: used to run parallel to Constant Leon all the way

650
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:46,319
Speaker 1: out almost to Decatur. And UM they at the time

651
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 1: was just pastoral gardens and people would come out, you know,

652
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 1: back in the old days of courting. You would take

653
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 1: the trolley line out and would court your your lovely

654
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 1: lady around the gardens at uh constantly on uh part

655
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 1: and eventually, UH in the late eighteen nineties they opened

656
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 1: an amusement park UH called Constantly an amusement park. This

657
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 1: is around the time UH that, so we should mention

658
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:15,319
Speaker 1: that the name was chosen because we thought it. Yeah,

659
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 1: they thought it was the Fountain of Youth. Uh. And

660
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 1: so the supposedly these these springs had restorative properties to them,

661
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 1: and so people would come out on Sundays and walk

662
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:28,919
Speaker 1: around the park and would get a sip of this

663
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 1: rank sulfur water because supposedly it was good for him

664
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,920
Speaker 1: and had these healing properties. Well. Uh, in time, they

665
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,439
Speaker 1: open the amusement park, and more and more people began

666
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 1: to come to the area. And this is just prior

667
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:48,439
Speaker 1: to you know, obviously the the automobile becoming common. Um.

668
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 1: By the early twentieth centuries, the automobile starts to come

669
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 1: into play. Certainly by the nineteen twenties, the park is

670
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 1: going into disrepair. There was a group of gypsies that

671
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 1: lived on the property. Uh, it was sort of becoming

672
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 1: an ice or. Although business was still popping up. They

673
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 1: opened the old ballpark, uh spiller Field across the street. Uh.

674
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 1: The obviously the Ford plant was already here. Um. And

675
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 1: at the time Sears was looking for property that, as

676
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,360
Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier, sort of the edge of town where

677
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 1: they could buy property for fairly inexpensive but they wanted

678
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 1: that transportation artery, and it really was the perfect fit

679
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 1: for Sears because not only do you have the rail

680
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 1: line airline railway outside UH to bring in and ship

681
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 1: these items, but you also have the trolley line, which

682
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,839
Speaker 1: was the main means of transportation as the automobile sort

683
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 1: of coming about. So Sears starts looking at the property

684
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:46,840
Speaker 1: the best of my knowledge in the night about and

685
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:51,439
Speaker 1: in December of nine announced officially that they were going

686
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 1: to open a Sears Roebuck warehouse and retail store on

687
00:39:55,440 --> 00:40:03,760
Speaker 1: the property. And so UH January four they broke ground

688
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 1: and six months later they opened a three quarter million

689
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 1: square foot facility. They were working three shifts a day,

690
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 1: twenty four hours a day, seven days a week for

691
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:19,279
Speaker 1: six months. They had done constructed another Sears plant in

692
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,280
Speaker 1: Kansas City that had been completed just a few months prior,

693
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: and so they really had worked out how to make

694
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,360
Speaker 1: this thing put it together quickly. It was almost the

695
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: exact same floor plans, and so they built this. They

696
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:34,840
Speaker 1: paved over the springs, diverted it actually under the property

697
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 1: UH and used to actually run off underneath North Avenue

698
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 1: and was diverted back to what was the parking lot

699
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 1: at Masquerade once upon a time. Now its old fourth

700
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 1: Ward Park and so that water runs off through there's

701
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 1: this underground aquifer. Um. I do know that in two

702
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,240
Speaker 1: thousand five there was another developer looking at the properties

703
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 1: names Emery Morrisburger. Mr. Morrisburger is the one who redeveloped

704
00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 1: downtown Lawrenceville, and he was looking to buy the property

705
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:05,240
Speaker 1: basically turned it into condos. Um. He had a daughter

706
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 1: who was disabled, and he wanted to make this the

707
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:13,359
Speaker 1: most wheelchair friendly facility in the city. And uh put

708
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 1: a healthy sum as a down payment somewhere next as

709
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 1: of a million dollars on the property. And as they

710
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 1: begin looking, um, right across Glen Iris, Uh, there's some

711
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: condos there now that used to be a dry cleaners.

712
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 1: And in all the years of operation the dry cleaners,

713
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 1: some of the chemicals that they used leached down into

714
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 1: the soil under the property and polluted the aquifer. And

715
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:36,880
Speaker 1: so then it's this environmental issue. And just about that

716
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,719
Speaker 1: time the market starts to collapse, and of course condos

717
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 1: go down the toilet and Morrisburger it was like the

718
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 1: hot potato. He couldn't get it out of it yet. Well,

719
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 1: because it's really expensive to address those kind of issues.

720
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: I mean, I I know it happened a lot in Atlanta.

721
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:53,959
Speaker 1: That is not the only story I know of someone

722
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:55,919
Speaker 1: that was interested in the property and then found out

723
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:57,840
Speaker 1: that it had some chemical issue it was going to

724
00:41:57,960 --> 00:41:59,919
Speaker 1: have to have a lot of expensive cleanup, and then

725
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 1: right at that time everything kind of went dry for

726
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 1: a bit where there was just no development. So that's

727
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: not that unusual. We're going to come back to the

728
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 1: Seares Buildings and its debut, but before that, I wanted

729
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:15,239
Speaker 1: to ask you, and you kind of accidentally got onto

730
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 1: it a little bit talking about how the catalog business

731
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 1: sort of opened up some avenues for black people to

732
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:30,280
Speaker 1: be able to make purchases without having to deal with racism.

733
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:35,279
Speaker 1: But there are some moments in this building's past that

734
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 1: are problematic, and they are a big part of America's

735
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:41,920
Speaker 1: racist history. And I know we have always kind of

736
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 1: run into like that. Please don't look when we talk

737
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 1: to people that worked on the development about like, can

738
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 1: we talk about the fact that that amusement park wouldn't

739
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 1: let anyone of color in? Uh, do you run into

740
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 1: that problem? I've seen a lot of questions about it.

741
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 1: There's one, uh postcard image that is very clear that

742
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 1: the swings on the property had a sign that said

743
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:07,840
Speaker 1: whites only. Uh. The only others that could use it

744
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,880
Speaker 1: were black servants. That was obviously a big part of it.

745
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 1: I mean, this is the Jim Crow era of the South,

746
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 1: and is you know, as liberal as Atlanta can be

747
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 1: at times, it's still very much in the heart of

748
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:23,800
Speaker 1: the South. Um. And there were a lot of challenging

749
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 1: issues over the years. I think with Sears obviously, you know,

750
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 1: segregated facilities, restrooms, cafeterias, and things of that nature. All

751
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 1: the way up to nineteen seventy one, Jose Williams is

752
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:38,759
Speaker 1: protesting you know, racist hiring practices at Sears Roebucks. So yeah,

753
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 1: there's a lot of of of a sort of sort

754
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:45,320
Speaker 1: of undertone and things that I get a lot of

755
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 1: questions about. Uh. There is one particular sort of urban

756
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 1: myth that that uh Alva Roebuck was at least part

757
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:57,319
Speaker 1: African American, and that's the best of my understanding and

758
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 1: my research is not true. Uh. And I think a

759
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 1: big part of that is probably because of the role

760
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 1: that Rosenwald played with Booker T. Washington. It was very

761
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 1: high profile and from some of the interviews that I've

762
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:14,839
Speaker 1: read with corporate executives with Sears at the time they

763
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:18,360
Speaker 1: opened this plant that um, there was some concern on

764
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 1: the part of the white population in the South. Uh,

765
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 1: they thought that Sears was a black company. And again

766
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 1: I think a lot of that probably came out of

767
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:30,320
Speaker 1: this sort of high profile philanthropy that what rosen Walld

768
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 1: was doing through black communities throughout the region. And UH,

769
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 1: to some degree, Sears was very conscious about bringing and

770
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 1: establishing public relations offices in the Atlanta plant to sort

771
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 1: of get helped get past that. And so they were

772
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:51,240
Speaker 1: always the questions well as one of the men black. Um.

773
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,759
Speaker 1: And in fact, uh, if you know the story of

774
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:58,839
Speaker 1: Alva Roebuck, he left the company in side a bad

775
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 1: case of nerves in dealing with Richard Sears sort of

776
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:05,800
Speaker 1: fly by to the seat her pants business style. Roebuck

777
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:08,400
Speaker 1: had been hired when Richard Sears was just a watch

778
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:11,640
Speaker 1: catalog h Richard Sears, you know, had was a railroad

779
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:15,799
Speaker 1: agent and had worked in Minnesota and accidentally got a

780
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:19,320
Speaker 1: shipment of pocket watches because you know, in the nineteenth century,

781
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:24,360
Speaker 1: railroad helped standardized time, and so pocket watches became a necessity,

782
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:26,760
Speaker 1: and so it was the shipment of mail order pocket

783
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 1: watches that came through the station. No one claimed it,

784
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:31,319
Speaker 1: and so Richard Sears says, I'll buy it, and he

785
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 1: sells these watches and turns about an eight thousand dollar

786
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 1: profit selling these watches up and down the railroads to

787
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 1: his buddies who worked in the stations. And so it

788
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 1: started as this watch catalog, and Alva Roebuck was a

789
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 1: watch repairman, so he brought him in and had, of course,

790
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 1: in legendary Richard Sears style, the sort of grandiose guarantee,

791
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:54,880
Speaker 1: lifetime guarantee on these watches. The best of my knowledge,

792
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 1: they weren't the best watches in the world. But if

793
00:45:57,360 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 1: it broke and you had the patients to send it

794
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 1: off for probably months and months to to Chicago, Albert

795
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 1: Roebuck would fix your watch and send it back to you.

796
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:09,400
Speaker 1: And so he stayed with the company till he leaves

797
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 1: because he's just a nervous wreck trying to work with

798
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 1: Richard Sears, and eventually takes his portion of the company

799
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 1: and uh invested in the typewriter industry. He ends up

800
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 1: working for Emerson Typewriters and had basically gone into an

801
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:27,360
Speaker 1: early retirement in Florida when the Great Depression kicked in

802
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 1: and lost everything, and eventually in the nineteen thirties went

803
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 1: to Chicago, had to go back to work and went

804
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 1: and stood in an unemployment line at the Sears factory

805
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 1: in Chicago, and he goes in for the interview and

806
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 1: they asked his name. He says, well, it's on the

807
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 1: front of the building. I'm Alva Roebuck. And so they

808
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 1: hired him just sort of write letters to customers, sort

809
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:53,719
Speaker 1: of a public relations capacity, and eventually started touring him

810
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:56,280
Speaker 1: around the Country's sort of a glad hander for special events,

811
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 1: and they sent him to the South to multiple locations

812
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 1: to show the reach. And he's not black, so that

813
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:08,719
Speaker 1: was the capacity that Robut served. Um, you know, I

814
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 1: talked to a number of African American employees who worked

815
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 1: at Sears during those years of transition during the Civil

816
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 1: Rights movement, where the segregated signs were slowly removed and

817
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 1: things were integrated without very very much fanfare. They really

818
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:25,839
Speaker 1: tried to stay below the radar with that kind of thing,

819
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 1: but uh, still a lot of dedication, even the black employees.

820
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:33,759
Speaker 1: They genuinely loved Sears. They loved with Sears provided. Uh.

821
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:37,239
Speaker 1: There's an old sort of legend that there was an

822
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 1: elevator operator, a black elevator operator at the Memphis facility,

823
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 1: which is obviously right on the Mississippi River. Uh, and

824
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 1: he operated an elevator in that building for thirty plus years.

825
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:50,319
Speaker 1: And it is said he retired a millionaire because for

826
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:53,800
Speaker 1: every dollar he would invest in his sh Sears profit sharing,

827
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:57,399
Speaker 1: they would match that dollar. And UH, they were your

828
00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:00,759
Speaker 1: story decade. Yeah, stories of employees. This is when you

829
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 1: know you could establish yourself in a career with this

830
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:05,799
Speaker 1: company and it could really do great things for you.

831
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:08,719
Speaker 1: And I know for a fact in speaking with some

832
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:12,280
Speaker 1: of these uh former employees who are still very active.

833
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 1: In fact, Atlanta has the largest active retiree chapter in

834
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:19,439
Speaker 1: the country. They're called the Seers Atlanta Family. I still

835
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:23,200
Speaker 1: worked with them occasionally, have interviewed a number of employees

836
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 1: that worked in this plant and the stories they tell

837
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 1: it's just fascinating and sort of seeing that firsthand account

838
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:30,880
Speaker 1: of what it used to be like to work in

839
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:34,239
Speaker 1: this giant building and how close people were, you know,

840
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:36,560
Speaker 1: stories of snow storms where they would be trapped in

841
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 1: the building overnight and the next morning they would open

842
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 1: the cafeteria and do like mess hall style breakfast for

843
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:44,760
Speaker 1: all the employees. They were really just a tight knit family,

844
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 1: and they still are very close today. You've got these

845
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 1: people in their eighties and their nineties, and they just

846
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:53,240
Speaker 1: just the salt of the earth. You know. They loved

847
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 1: the company that they worked for. They're not real happy

848
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:58,839
Speaker 1: about the direction it's gone in recent years, but they

849
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:02,400
Speaker 1: they're very deadic hated people. Uh And I've seen that

850
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 1: in all you know, socio economic classes and races of

851
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:09,399
Speaker 1: people who worked here. They they genuinely loved what they did.

852
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:14,360
Speaker 1: Uh and what Sears sort of stood for in the region. Uh. So,

853
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 1: now we'll backtrack a little bit and talk about the

854
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 1: building on the day it opened, because I had read

855
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 1: a little factoid that there were thirty thousand people on hand.

856
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:28,400
Speaker 1: Is that true? That seems enormous. It was not in

857
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:31,279
Speaker 1: line that morning. There are some pictures from that day

858
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:33,120
Speaker 1: of the front of the building and the lines and

859
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 1: the throngs of people standing outside the front. That was

860
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 1: the total number of bodies that came in the building

861
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:42,239
Speaker 1: in that first opening day. It's not like there were

862
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:44,880
Speaker 1: thirty thousand people, you know, lined up constantly on to

863
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 1: get in. But you know they had somewhere in the

864
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 1: neighborhood of thirty five thousand items on display in that

865
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 1: retail facility down on the first floor. And uh, you know,

866
00:49:57,320 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 1: for folks who've lived in Atlanta very long, the old

867
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:03,719
Speaker 1: service merchandise, you would go in, say I want that one.

868
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:06,239
Speaker 1: They would give you a ticket, you would go to

869
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 1: a counter, and somebody else behind, you know, the curtain

870
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:11,800
Speaker 1: would bundle that order and bring it to the counter

871
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:12,960
Speaker 1: for you. And that was the way it worked here

872
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 1: at Sears. They folks could go in through the retail section,

873
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 1: and Sears was known for having three different levels of quality.

874
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 1: They had the economic, then they had sort of the middle,

875
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 1: and then they had the really nice one. And so

876
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:28,320
Speaker 1: they would keep three of most all of these items,

877
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 1: particularly things like appliances and tools and things that Sears

878
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 1: sort of became known for. People would come in and

879
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:36,359
Speaker 1: they would say, Okay, I want this and this. They

880
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 1: would take the tickets to a counter and they would

881
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:42,400
Speaker 1: literally um. The way this building is set up, there

882
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 1: are these huge corkscrew turnstiles. There used to be a

883
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:47,400
Speaker 1: couple on the outside of the building, and then they

884
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:50,520
Speaker 1: were two within the building itself and they connected all

885
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 1: of the floors and it basically was a giant shoot

886
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:55,520
Speaker 1: that went down to the shipping room what is today

887
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 1: the front facade of Pont City Market with the living roof.

888
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:02,400
Speaker 1: That was the shipping room. And they would all of

889
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:04,799
Speaker 1: these conveyor belts and shoots and they all the things

890
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:07,160
Speaker 1: from the different floors would spiral down and somebody at

891
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:10,239
Speaker 1: the bottom and these stalls would collect the items. They

892
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 1: would come through the shoot, they would bundle the order

893
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:14,000
Speaker 1: and it would either go to the front of the

894
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:15,920
Speaker 1: store for the retail or it would go to the

895
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 1: loading dock in the back and be put on the

896
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 1: train to be shipped out all over the region. And

897
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:22,359
Speaker 1: that was sort of the way they filled them. You know.

898
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:25,560
Speaker 1: They had operators over in the tower and you could

899
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:28,319
Speaker 1: call directly to the tower and say, okay, in your

900
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:31,719
Speaker 1: new catalog on this page, you've got this item. I'd

901
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:34,279
Speaker 1: like three of these, you know, and then they would

902
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:37,359
Speaker 1: send that order to the different floors. They would fill

903
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:38,960
Speaker 1: that order and collect it and bundle it in the

904
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 1: in the shipping room. So what was the building itself

905
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 1: like at the time. Yeah, the bottom floor was a cafeteria.

906
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:51,600
Speaker 1: Basement floor is a giant cafeteria, and then the first

907
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:55,000
Speaker 1: floor would have been the retail space. The second third,

908
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 1: actually the second through ninth floors of the main structure

909
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:02,359
Speaker 1: was pretty much just all merchandise. Uh. You had things

910
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 1: like kids toys. On the ninth floor, you would have

911
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 1: things like appliances and hardware, and heavier items would be

912
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:12,080
Speaker 1: obviously a little closer to the bottom floor. And uh,

913
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:15,560
Speaker 1: you know, during the first few years of operation the building, uh,

914
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 1: the terrace across what is today the front of Pond

915
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 1: City Market. Uh, that was the old original rail bed.

916
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 1: It's connected via bridge out to the belt line. Now. Uh,

917
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:28,520
Speaker 1: they would pull as many as sixteen rail cars across

918
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:31,320
Speaker 1: the back of the building and they would literally bundle

919
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:34,239
Speaker 1: it and loaded onto the train. Uh. That was the

920
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 1: case until the mid sixties. They started a huge wave

921
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:40,760
Speaker 1: of development. They knocked down the old original smoke stack,

922
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:44,440
Speaker 1: and they constructed the wing that sits right across the

923
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 1: street from the Masquerade there on North Avenue. That was

924
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:50,520
Speaker 1: the sixty seven wing. And then they were three floors

925
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:54,320
Speaker 1: on the far end that weren't there originally. In nineteen seventy,

926
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:57,400
Speaker 1: they built those additional three floors to finish that wing out.

927
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:01,440
Speaker 1: When they did that, they scrapped the rail line buried

928
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:04,600
Speaker 1: in concrete and built a cafeteria new cafeteria that was

929
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:08,080
Speaker 1: open to the public, and built that across the back

930
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:10,960
Speaker 1: of the building and rerouted all of the trains up

931
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:12,720
Speaker 1: the side of the building. And what is the shed

932
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 1: on the side of the property today that Pots City

933
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:18,279
Speaker 1: Market has developed. That was the second loading dock, and

934
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:20,920
Speaker 1: they could pull more train cars up to that and

935
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:23,719
Speaker 1: and load those items. But uh, yeah, it was an

936
00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:27,600
Speaker 1: amazing operation. It was almost like two different companies in one.

937
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:30,400
Speaker 1: You would have the mail order aspect of the company

938
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:32,880
Speaker 1: and then you would have the retail portion of the company.

939
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:36,000
Speaker 1: And and talking to the employees, they've always been very

940
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:38,719
Speaker 1: particular about oh well I was retail or, I was

941
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 1: mail order, I worked with catalog, is what they'll say. Um,

942
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:46,440
Speaker 1: the terminology is interesting. They refer to this building as

943
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:51,080
Speaker 1: the plant, the Pots plant. Uh. And it really was

944
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:54,960
Speaker 1: just amazing to see it. There's actually a collection of

945
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:58,320
Speaker 1: employee It was more of than newslet. It was almost

946
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 1: like a magazine, uh, for ploys of this year's plant. Uh.

947
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:05,040
Speaker 1: It started nineteen fifty one on the twenty fifth anniversary

948
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:07,239
Speaker 1: of the opening of the plant. It was called mail

949
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:09,759
Speaker 1: order graph and it was like, you know, pictures of

950
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:14,319
Speaker 1: kids in their cub Scouts again, that whole family thing

951
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:17,000
Speaker 1: was there. It was pictures of the cafeteria staff, the

952
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:21,120
Speaker 1: ladies that ran the cafeteria at the time, or the laundry. Uh.

953
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:23,520
Speaker 1: They would do these different write ups, Uh so and

954
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:26,400
Speaker 1: So's moving away, and they would have going away parties

955
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:29,960
Speaker 1: and just a lot of very personal pictures. I found

956
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:34,160
Speaker 1: an entire collection that went from nineteen fifty one through

957
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:37,080
Speaker 1: about nineteen seventy eight, I believe it was. They have

958
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:39,799
Speaker 1: it on uh hand at University of Georgia and their

959
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:43,200
Speaker 1: Special Collections facility out there, and I've gone out there

960
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:47,680
Speaker 1: multiple times collecting information, images and stuff for Jamestown, uh

961
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:50,879
Speaker 1: to use in various capacities. And it's just so fun

962
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:54,319
Speaker 1: to look through those because you really see what this

963
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:57,160
Speaker 1: building was in its prior life. You know, I didn't

964
00:54:57,160 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 1: move to the city till n and obviously that would

965
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:02,400
Speaker 1: the year Sears sort of shuttered everything and sold it

966
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:06,439
Speaker 1: to the city. But it, uh, it really gives sort

967
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:09,680
Speaker 1: of a pulse to the previous life of the building

968
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 1: and the people that worked in and how close they

969
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:15,400
Speaker 1: were what Atlanta meant to or you know, what Sears

970
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:20,400
Speaker 1: mit meant to the Atlanta market. I will ask you

971
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:22,520
Speaker 1: a question. I'm going off track a little bit because

972
00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:26,360
Speaker 1: I remember finding in uh when I was doing a

973
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:32,040
Speaker 1: little bit of prep a note from the nine internal

974
00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:38,160
Speaker 1: little mailer paper, a note about Sears being aware that

975
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:41,399
Speaker 1: their catalogs would one day be looked at by historians

976
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 1: as the you know, sort of the record of American

977
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:50,120
Speaker 1: life at the time. It is absolutely I have never

978
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:52,440
Speaker 1: heard of a company that was quite that self aware

979
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:56,040
Speaker 1: from historical perspective. I don't know that Richard Sears himself

980
00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:59,279
Speaker 1: was quite that aware. Again, he was a huckster, you know,

981
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:01,880
Speaker 1: he was a Eke oil salesman. But I do think

982
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:06,279
Speaker 1: that Julius Rosenwald and certainly Robert Wood were conscious of

983
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:11,120
Speaker 1: sort of nurturing this is before image corporate image was

984
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 1: a thing they sort of I think helped to create

985
00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:17,920
Speaker 1: and nurture that in this this image of the catalog

986
00:56:18,239 --> 00:56:21,840
Speaker 1: and how it reached out to to rural farmers in particular.

987
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:24,080
Speaker 1: But you know, even here in in the urban areas

988
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 1: where they're reaching out to a more urban market. But Uh,

989
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:30,759
Speaker 1: but yeah, I think I think from at least by

990
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:34,279
Speaker 1: the mid twentieth century, they were certainly aware that this

991
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:40,360
Speaker 1: was sort of a historical you know, repository of things

992
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:43,000
Speaker 1: of stuff, and and that's one thing about our culture,

993
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:45,640
Speaker 1: you know, is we love stuff in this country. We

994
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:49,000
Speaker 1: define ourselves by stuff. And they were I think really

995
00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:52,200
Speaker 1: aware of how people define themselves with the things that

996
00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:56,000
Speaker 1: they bought. And uh, you know, even in utilitarian things

997
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 1: like cream separators and sewing machines and these you know

998
00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:03,080
Speaker 1: things that again, you know, I had mentioned to you

999
00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:08,359
Speaker 1: at the Georgia Public Broadcasting broadcasts that we uh we're

1000
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:13,800
Speaker 1: talking about how the catalog and the items in it, uh,

1001
00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:17,680
Speaker 1: what it represented to people having those items. Um, you know,

1002
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:20,920
Speaker 1: I I teach that in my classes. Now we actually

1003
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:23,120
Speaker 1: do It's pretty fun activity I do with my students

1004
00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:26,960
Speaker 1: where I give them a list of drugs because there's

1005
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:30,200
Speaker 1: one thing teenagers are interested in, its drugs and what

1006
00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:34,240
Speaker 1: they potential side effects are, what they might be used for.

1007
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:37,479
Speaker 1: And we would take I give the kids old copies. Uh.

1008
00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 1: This is before the pure food and drug adveras looking

1009
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:44,240
Speaker 1: at patent medicines because that was the thing about patent medicines.

1010
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:47,000
Speaker 1: It could have secret ingredients and it was usually illicit drugs,

1011
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:49,440
Speaker 1: and you had farmers getting addicted to cocaine in the

1012
00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:53,240
Speaker 1: nineteen teens. And so my kids go through and scour

1013
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:56,080
Speaker 1: these ads and read the claims and then they have

1014
00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:58,840
Speaker 1: to sort of guess what illicit drug might be the

1015
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:03,480
Speaker 1: key ingredients and those items. So it's amazing, you know,

1016
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:06,600
Speaker 1: it really is sort of a history of us from

1017
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:09,400
Speaker 1: from that that period, that sort of huckster selling it

1018
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:11,640
Speaker 1: out of the back of the wagon too. You know

1019
00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:13,800
Speaker 1: what we talked about. You would ask about the the

1020
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:17,600
Speaker 1: Wish book. You know. Um, one of my favorite writers

1021
00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 1: that I became familiar with both and when I was

1022
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:23,280
Speaker 1: at Georgia State, actually Cliff Kean really turned him onto him,

1023
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:26,680
Speaker 1: was Harry Cruz Love Harry Crews. Uh. You know, he's

1024
00:58:26,720 --> 00:58:32,720
Speaker 1: somewhere between uh Faulkner and Hunter S. Thompson. He is

1025
00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:35,240
Speaker 1: just amazing. But he grew up in Bacon County, Georgia,

1026
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:40,360
Speaker 1: dirt poor, uh sharecropper's son, and uh he tells the

1027
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:43,439
Speaker 1: stories his family never hoped to be able to buy

1028
00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:47,320
Speaker 1: the items in those books, but you could wish about it.

1029
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:51,560
Speaker 1: And the thing he did he had a black neighbor

1030
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:54,200
Speaker 1: named will It Lee book at and they would basically

1031
00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:56,880
Speaker 1: sit on the porch with the catalog and would make

1032
00:58:56,960 --> 00:59:00,880
Speaker 1: up stories about these so called perfect people. Oh my good,

1033
00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:03,120
Speaker 1: because he grew up in an area where you know,

1034
00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:06,240
Speaker 1: folks said were missing an eye or missing a two,

1035
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:10,520
Speaker 1: threw finger and have yeah. And then he looks at

1036
00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:13,680
Speaker 1: this catalog of all these perfect people, and he and

1037
00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:15,480
Speaker 1: this other kid would make up stories. And he said,

1038
00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 1: that's how he learned to tell story, was just making

1039
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:20,320
Speaker 1: up stories about people in the Sears catalog. So, you know,

1040
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:24,920
Speaker 1: even beyond you know, consumer goods, this thing became so

1041
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:28,520
Speaker 1: much larger for people, particularly in the South, that didn't

1042
00:59:28,520 --> 00:59:32,080
Speaker 1: have a whole lot wish for, you know, they wish

1043
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:34,600
Speaker 1: was all they could do, and I think it became

1044
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:36,560
Speaker 1: symbolic of that. So it was called wish book for

1045
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:41,320
Speaker 1: years and years. Um. The Christmas Catalog I think really

1046
00:59:41,320 --> 00:59:44,040
Speaker 1: took off in the nineteen thirties. Uh. And it was

1047
00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:47,480
Speaker 1: a fairly small catalog, but it had the toys. I

1048
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:50,160
Speaker 1: think most of us that are in our age group

1049
00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:56,920
Speaker 1: have such distinct memories of that. Eventually, grimy and dog

1050
00:59:56,920 --> 01:00:01,880
Speaker 1: eared wish book every year. Santa Claus shopped at Sears clearly,

1051
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:05,439
Speaker 1: I mean I vaguely recall asking a question along those

1052
01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:07,640
Speaker 1: lines of like, if I circle it in the catalog,

1053
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:10,640
Speaker 1: how does Santa find out? And my parents did say

1054
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:12,600
Speaker 1: something like, oh, he has a deal with Series, you know,

1055
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:17,000
Speaker 1: the way that parents will just make something up exactly. Yes,

1056
01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:21,520
Speaker 1: so they they I mean Santa. You know, I could

1057
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:24,919
Speaker 1: see him having some retail reach out. Some of those

1058
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:27,360
Speaker 1: elves have connections there on the switchboard. I did a

1059
01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:30,040
Speaker 1: presentation for the Retirees Group a couple of years ago,

1060
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:32,920
Speaker 1: and before I even started, I looked out and smiled

1061
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:36,240
Speaker 1: at the audience of these, you know, seventy nine year

1062
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:40,480
Speaker 1: old people, and I said, I've just met Santa Claus.

1063
01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:43,439
Speaker 1: You were Santa Claus because I lived in a rural area,

1064
01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:45,760
Speaker 1: a little tiny town South Georgia. Moultrie, Georgia was where

1065
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:49,000
Speaker 1: I grew up and lived out in a very rural area.

1066
01:00:49,400 --> 01:00:52,280
Speaker 1: The nearest kids were a couple of miles away, and

1067
01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:55,160
Speaker 1: being an only child, that's Sears wish book, I spent

1068
01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:59,560
Speaker 1: a lot of hours with it. Facts absolutely and school

1069
01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:02,720
Speaker 1: close every fall, school clothes came from Sears, and then

1070
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:04,560
Speaker 1: of course you would get the wish book and about

1071
01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:07,880
Speaker 1: October and start dog ear in the pages and circling things.

1072
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:11,240
Speaker 1: I want this two of these. And yes, somehow Santa

1073
01:01:11,280 --> 01:01:16,120
Speaker 1: always found out, thank goodness. I mean, I think I

1074
01:01:16,200 --> 01:01:19,000
Speaker 1: told you when we first first met to talk about

1075
01:01:19,040 --> 01:01:22,160
Speaker 1: this about the year that Santa did me wrong and

1076
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:25,880
Speaker 1: he did not honor my request for the Strawberry shortcake

1077
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:31,000
Speaker 1: snail cart, and I may have had a very unattractive fit.

1078
01:01:31,880 --> 01:01:34,600
Speaker 1: And then I scraped my money together and told my

1079
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:36,160
Speaker 1: dad we have to go to Sears. Like I was

1080
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:37,960
Speaker 1: scared there were there was gonna be a run on

1081
01:01:38,080 --> 01:01:42,440
Speaker 1: snail carts. We absolutely had to go immediately, if not sooner,

1082
01:01:43,160 --> 01:01:46,680
Speaker 1: and get my snail carts. It was it was everything,

1083
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:48,439
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of my you know, I talked

1084
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:51,280
Speaker 1: about my Star Wars toys. That was it. It was

1085
01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:56,360
Speaker 1: the you know, getting that package, just oh my god. Oh.

1086
01:01:56,400 --> 01:01:58,760
Speaker 1: There was one year that my brother tore out the

1087
01:01:58,800 --> 01:02:01,600
Speaker 1: Star Wars pages for him to just take for himself.

1088
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:07,960
Speaker 1: I'll be honest, I'm sorry, sir. No. I um. When

1089
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:10,800
Speaker 1: I did my research the first time, I was in

1090
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:13,880
Speaker 1: the catalog room of the archives and they had basically

1091
01:02:13,920 --> 01:02:17,480
Speaker 1: every catalog they had ever published. They had a pristine

1092
01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:22,080
Speaker 1: copy on this wall, and I pulled out the seventy

1093
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:29,880
Speaker 1: seventy smelled the pages still smell the same flip to

1094
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:33,880
Speaker 1: those that I had perused a hundred times as a kid.

1095
01:02:34,360 --> 01:02:38,040
Speaker 1: And remember not just the toys, but that advertisement, you

1096
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:40,760
Speaker 1: know that display, because I always had the coolest displays

1097
01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:44,440
Speaker 1: of toys. It's it's sort of interesting. Um. I mentioned

1098
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:46,880
Speaker 1: earlier about the farmers market that was established here on

1099
01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:50,520
Speaker 1: the back lot of the property, that operated from nineteen

1100
01:02:50,560 --> 01:02:54,520
Speaker 1: thirty till about ninety seven. Uh In forty seven, when

1101
01:02:54,560 --> 01:02:57,680
Speaker 1: they shut down the Farmer's market, they turned that building

1102
01:02:57,800 --> 01:03:00,800
Speaker 1: which is no longer there. It's right where Dancing Goats

1103
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:03,120
Speaker 1: is located today. There was the Farmer's market on that

1104
01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:07,439
Speaker 1: corner of Glenn Iris and North Avenue. And um, they

1105
01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:10,040
Speaker 1: shut down the Farmer's market turning into a farm store.

1106
01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:13,440
Speaker 1: But every year for Christmas they would take a portion

1107
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:16,560
Speaker 1: of the farm store and would have this huge Christmas display.

1108
01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:19,440
Speaker 1: And there's some great photos of the Georgia State Special

1109
01:03:19,480 --> 01:03:23,160
Speaker 1: Collections Archives of this creepy clown on a on a

1110
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:26,320
Speaker 1: slide out in front of that store and these kids

1111
01:03:26,880 --> 01:03:29,840
Speaker 1: playing on like the playground. I'm sure it was probably

1112
01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:32,080
Speaker 1: something they sold in the catalog of swing set or something.

1113
01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:35,000
Speaker 1: But yeah, they were always very conscious of that. You know,

1114
01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:36,840
Speaker 1: that Christmas thing. It always reminds me of the scene

1115
01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:39,080
Speaker 1: from a Christmas story where they're sort of glued to

1116
01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:41,600
Speaker 1: the window looking at all the wares for that year's

1117
01:03:41,640 --> 01:03:45,640
Speaker 1: Christmas season. So yeah, I mean it's I still think

1118
01:03:45,680 --> 01:03:49,160
Speaker 1: about those wish books a lot, especially this time a year.

1119
01:03:49,280 --> 01:03:51,880
Speaker 1: It's just exactly it's like, it's good, we have good

1120
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:57,960
Speaker 1: timing to do, and now I am going to think

1121
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:00,960
Speaker 1: about the elliott ness level rate that I staged to

1122
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:04,160
Speaker 1: get those pages out of my brother's room. He was

1123
01:04:04,200 --> 01:04:05,880
Speaker 1: a lot older than me. It was not okay, it

1124
01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:09,280
Speaker 1: was a very very brave act on my place. You

1125
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:14,880
Speaker 1: can't take those I need to look at size noodles.

1126
01:04:15,040 --> 01:04:20,040
Speaker 1: There's something it's pretty sagrinned about the whole situation. Cherry,

1127
01:04:20,120 --> 01:04:22,320
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, very welcome. Oh my gosh, you're

1128
01:04:22,360 --> 01:04:27,080
Speaker 1: just amazing app. Where can people find you? Well, I,

1129
01:04:27,560 --> 01:04:29,560
Speaker 1: like I said, I'm at Duluth High School. You can

1130
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:33,040
Speaker 1: reach me there. Yeah, just send me, send me an email.

1131
01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:38,360
Speaker 1: You can find me on Facebook. Jerry Hancock. Uh, if

1132
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:40,760
Speaker 1: you need to email me. Jerry Underscore Hancock at yahoo

1133
01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:44,800
Speaker 1: dot com. I'm pretty accessible. Uh, shoot me a line, um,

1134
01:04:44,920 --> 01:04:48,400
Speaker 1: and hopefully this book thing will materialize where right now

1135
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:52,760
Speaker 1: it's being reviewed by Princeton Press, Princeton Architectural Press, and uh,

1136
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:55,520
Speaker 1: I do know that the executives of Jamestown are pretty

1137
01:04:55,520 --> 01:04:57,600
Speaker 1: excited about it as well, So I'm certain that it's

1138
01:04:57,600 --> 01:05:01,320
Speaker 1: gonna come along at some point with pretty a yeah

1139
01:05:01,880 --> 01:05:04,280
Speaker 1: and it's yeah, this is the whole business aspect of it,

1140
01:05:04,360 --> 01:05:06,720
Speaker 1: and this is the part I'm not real fond of.

1141
01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:08,600
Speaker 1: But you know, we've we've done a few edits here

1142
01:05:08,600 --> 01:05:12,360
Speaker 1: and there and trying to get copyrights on pages. You've

1143
01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:14,800
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier about how hard it is to do corporate

1144
01:05:15,840 --> 01:05:18,760
Speaker 1: research and it it's very difficult to find anybody as

1145
01:05:18,760 --> 01:05:21,040
Speaker 1: serious to give you a concrete answer on anything, if

1146
01:05:21,080 --> 01:05:22,840
Speaker 1: you can even get them to answer a phone, because

1147
01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:25,160
Speaker 1: there's so many of those officers are empty now and

1148
01:05:25,200 --> 01:05:27,280
Speaker 1: so we're really struggling with trying to reach out to

1149
01:05:27,320 --> 01:05:29,520
Speaker 1: sears and get permission to use certain images and things.

1150
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:32,520
Speaker 1: But we've got a great collection of historical images in

1151
01:05:32,520 --> 01:05:35,880
Speaker 1: this essay, and then of course Blake's photography is just astounding,

1152
01:05:36,240 --> 01:05:39,160
Speaker 1: so beautiful to to watch the transition of the building

1153
01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:41,040
Speaker 1: and the pages it will be. I believe it's going

1154
01:05:41,080 --> 01:05:43,200
Speaker 1: to be more of an architectural book, sort of coffee

1155
01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:46,440
Speaker 1: table style book. But yeah, we've uh, we've got a

1156
01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:48,080
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of optimism for it. So I'm

1157
01:05:48,120 --> 01:05:51,840
Speaker 1: excited to keep us posted. We can share that info, uh,

1158
01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:55,080
Speaker 1: and then we will uh will reach back out to

1159
01:05:55,120 --> 01:05:56,640
Speaker 1: you and get the whole scoop when it all comes

1160
01:05:56,640 --> 01:05:58,920
Speaker 1: to sounds good. Thank you so much. You're very welcome.

1161
01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:07,520
Speaker 1: Thanks for having Okay, So, I am still sort of

1162
01:06:07,520 --> 01:06:11,760
Speaker 1: reeling from the revelation that catalog shopping was so impactful

1163
01:06:11,960 --> 01:06:14,960
Speaker 1: to people who were often discriminated against. And I actually

1164
01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:17,080
Speaker 1: feel a little bit foolish for never having thought of

1165
01:06:17,080 --> 01:06:20,080
Speaker 1: that before. Yeah, you and I try really hard to

1166
01:06:20,120 --> 01:06:24,600
Speaker 1: broaden our perspectives, uh, and to to listen to people

1167
01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:29,200
Speaker 1: whose experiences are different from ours. Um, But at the

1168
01:06:29,200 --> 01:06:31,200
Speaker 1: same time, like we're always going to be limited by

1169
01:06:31,200 --> 01:06:36,360
Speaker 1: our own experiences, and so I, like you, I had

1170
01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:39,320
Speaker 1: not thought of that before. No, it's so blew my

1171
01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:41,960
Speaker 1: mind and and really kind of opened my eyes to

1172
01:06:42,080 --> 01:06:45,880
Speaker 1: a whole reason that catalogs had a benefit to people

1173
01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:48,640
Speaker 1: that I just had never considered, which I really do

1174
01:06:48,760 --> 01:06:51,440
Speaker 1: feel foolish for not considering because I'm like that person

1175
01:06:51,480 --> 01:06:53,760
Speaker 1: that likes to shop online because I don't like going

1176
01:06:53,760 --> 01:06:56,040
Speaker 1: into stores. So you would think I could have put

1177
01:06:56,040 --> 01:07:00,320
Speaker 1: two and two together, but I didn't. Uh. So we

1178
01:07:00,360 --> 01:07:02,800
Speaker 1: wanted to say many many thanks to Jerry Hancock for

1179
01:07:02,840 --> 01:07:06,640
Speaker 1: spending time with us and sharing his impressive breadth of knowledge.

1180
01:07:07,040 --> 01:07:09,240
Speaker 1: Little did I know you could be a Sears scholar,

1181
01:07:09,280 --> 01:07:12,560
Speaker 1: but also that Sears had like its own archive and

1182
01:07:12,720 --> 01:07:15,560
Speaker 1: their own sort of sense of scholarship around their history.

1183
01:07:16,160 --> 01:07:18,920
Speaker 1: And we will, as promised in the episode, keep listeners

1184
01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:21,440
Speaker 1: posted on his book project as it progresses. So I

1185
01:07:21,480 --> 01:07:24,080
Speaker 1: have his contact info. Hopefully we'll see more of him

1186
01:07:24,160 --> 01:07:26,400
Speaker 1: and we will keep you in the loop. Do you

1187
01:07:26,400 --> 01:07:28,440
Speaker 1: also have some listener mail for us? I do. It's

1188
01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:31,800
Speaker 1: a follow up to a previous listener mail, so as

1189
01:07:31,800 --> 01:07:36,200
Speaker 1: our listeners may recall, I had a delighted freak out

1190
01:07:36,400 --> 01:07:39,800
Speaker 1: not so long ago when we got this amazing parcel

1191
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:42,040
Speaker 1: from a listener who I could not make out their name,

1192
01:07:42,440 --> 01:07:46,000
Speaker 1: but it was original copies of Lemo del from France,

1193
01:07:46,600 --> 01:07:49,360
Speaker 1: uh from the late eighteen hundreds and early nineteen hundreds,

1194
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:51,600
Speaker 1: and I was just wowed and we got an email

1195
01:07:51,600 --> 01:07:56,800
Speaker 1: shortly after that episode aired where the gifter revealed themselves

1196
01:07:57,280 --> 01:08:00,440
Speaker 1: her name is Emmanuel, and then she said she had

1197
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:04,760
Speaker 1: to follow up parcel coming. Oh my goodness. So, uh

1198
01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:09,000
Speaker 1: it's basically our early Christmas gift and care package and

1199
01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:12,120
Speaker 1: it was really amazing. So she said that the first

1200
01:08:12,120 --> 01:08:14,440
Speaker 1: one had been a spur of the moment thing, so

1201
01:08:14,480 --> 01:08:18,600
Speaker 1: then she, uh, she was so delighted with our enthusiastic

1202
01:08:18,640 --> 01:08:21,960
Speaker 1: reception that she did a much more organized approach to

1203
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:24,880
Speaker 1: the next one, and it was amazing. She found in

1204
01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:28,920
Speaker 1: a second hand bookshop a bunch of mod illustrates to

1205
01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:32,920
Speaker 1: sort through, and so what we ended up with, uh

1206
01:08:33,120 --> 01:08:37,519
Speaker 1: is one issue from every year ranging from nineteen o nine.

1207
01:08:37,560 --> 01:08:39,519
Speaker 1: They're a couple of years missing that just she couldn't

1208
01:08:39,560 --> 01:08:44,360
Speaker 1: find um. But they're in amazing shape. And one of

1209
01:08:44,400 --> 01:08:48,200
Speaker 1: the really really beautiful things that we got is that

1210
01:08:48,240 --> 01:08:51,120
Speaker 1: some of them are printed using the push war method,

1211
01:08:51,160 --> 01:08:55,240
Speaker 1: like their special editions, that have actual gold that highlights

1212
01:08:55,280 --> 01:09:00,320
Speaker 1: some of the illustrations in them. They're incredible. Uh yeah, yeah, yes,

1213
01:09:00,439 --> 01:09:05,519
Speaker 1: so so uh here's the other cool thing. There are

1214
01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:07,960
Speaker 1: four issues that she sent that has what she says

1215
01:09:08,080 --> 01:09:09,960
Speaker 1: is a surprise for me, which is great. They have

1216
01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:14,080
Speaker 1: original sewing patterns um and she wrote, She's very cute

1217
01:09:14,080 --> 01:09:16,559
Speaker 1: because she gets me clearly. She's like, you read that right, breathe,

1218
01:09:16,560 --> 01:09:19,640
Speaker 1: please don't cry. So yeah, they're basically like pieces that

1219
01:09:19,680 --> 01:09:21,640
Speaker 1: you have to put together. Luckily, I have done this

1220
01:09:21,720 --> 01:09:23,600
Speaker 1: many many times, and I have the skills. I have

1221
01:09:23,640 --> 01:09:25,120
Speaker 1: to figure out a way to copy them because I

1222
01:09:25,120 --> 01:09:28,320
Speaker 1: don't want to take them apart. And then there is

1223
01:09:28,920 --> 01:09:31,720
Speaker 1: a really interesting one, the nineteen fifteen issue that she

1224
01:09:31,800 --> 01:09:35,599
Speaker 1: sent really evidences that the war is happening and that

1225
01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:39,639
Speaker 1: dresses are getting simpler and shorter, and they're really really amazing.

1226
01:09:39,760 --> 01:09:43,559
Speaker 1: So it was just it's the most amazing parcel from

1227
01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:47,320
Speaker 1: an incredible I mean, what a generous and lovely and

1228
01:09:47,400 --> 01:09:51,639
Speaker 1: thoughtful person. Emmanuel. We like you heaps. They absolutely did

1229
01:09:51,680 --> 01:09:54,280
Speaker 1: put a huge smile on my face. I actually haven't

1230
01:09:54,280 --> 01:09:56,559
Speaker 1: gotten to go through them carefully. It's been kind of

1231
01:09:56,560 --> 01:10:00,160
Speaker 1: a busy time of travel and holidays and and work

1232
01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:01,920
Speaker 1: being a little bit busy, and us trying to get

1233
01:10:01,920 --> 01:10:05,120
Speaker 1: ready for more holidays and having more episodes ready than

1234
01:10:05,120 --> 01:10:07,280
Speaker 1: we usually would on a given week, so it's been

1235
01:10:07,280 --> 01:10:09,040
Speaker 1: a little bit maddening. It may be the beginning of

1236
01:10:09,080 --> 01:10:11,360
Speaker 1: the year before I really get to like go through

1237
01:10:11,400 --> 01:10:14,040
Speaker 1: them and and enjoy them fully. But thank you what

1238
01:10:14,120 --> 01:10:20,280
Speaker 1: an amazing, delightful, kind, thoughtful I can't use enough adjectives

1239
01:10:20,320 --> 01:10:23,639
Speaker 1: to describe how much I just really appreciate the care

1240
01:10:23,680 --> 01:10:26,000
Speaker 1: and love that went into such a gorgeous parcel. So

1241
01:10:26,160 --> 01:10:29,639
Speaker 1: thank you a million times over. Uh. If you would

1242
01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:32,800
Speaker 1: like to write to us and talk about how much

1243
01:10:32,920 --> 01:10:38,320
Speaker 1: you are over me blathering about exciting fashion illustrations, that's fine.

1244
01:10:38,720 --> 01:10:41,840
Speaker 1: You can do that at History podcast, to house, to

1245
01:10:41,920 --> 01:10:44,360
Speaker 1: works dot com. You can find us across the spectrum

1246
01:10:44,360 --> 01:10:47,360
Speaker 1: of social media as missed in History. That means Facebook

1247
01:10:47,400 --> 01:10:49,960
Speaker 1: dot com, slash missed in History, on Twitter, as at

1248
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:53,920
Speaker 1: missed in History, Instagram, We're at missed in History, missed

1249
01:10:53,960 --> 01:10:57,360
Speaker 1: in History, dot Tumbler dot com, pinterest dot com slash

1250
01:10:57,479 --> 01:11:00,639
Speaker 1: missed in History. If you would like to uh, come

1251
01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:02,880
Speaker 1: to our parents site, which is how stuff works dot com.

1252
01:11:02,920 --> 01:11:04,720
Speaker 1: You can put almost anything you can think of in

1253
01:11:04,760 --> 01:11:07,360
Speaker 1: the search bar and you will get a plethora of

1254
01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:10,519
Speaker 1: interesting content to look at and Peru's If you would

1255
01:11:10,520 --> 01:11:12,920
Speaker 1: like to visit me and Tracy, you can do that

1256
01:11:13,000 --> 01:11:15,800
Speaker 1: at missed in history dot com, where we have every

1257
01:11:15,800 --> 01:11:18,920
Speaker 1: episode of the podcast ever, and show notes for every

1258
01:11:18,920 --> 01:11:21,040
Speaker 1: episode that Tracy and I have worked on together, as

1259
01:11:21,080 --> 01:11:24,040
Speaker 1: well as occasional other delights. So please come and visit

1260
01:11:24,120 --> 01:11:26,320
Speaker 1: us at mist in history dot com and how stuff

1261
01:11:26,320 --> 01:11:33,519
Speaker 1: Works dot com for more on this and thousands of

1262
01:11:33,520 --> 01:11:48,080
Speaker 1: other topics. Is it how stuff works dot com