WEBVTT - What Democrats Should Take from No Kings Protests

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<v Speaker 1>Pushkin.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome back to Risky Business, a show about making better decisions.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Maria Kanakova.

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<v Speaker 3>And I'm made Silver.

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<v Speaker 1>Today on the.

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<v Speaker 2>Show, we're going to be talking about a series of

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<v Speaker 2>protests that took place across the country this weekend, the

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<v Speaker 2>no Kings protests. So we'll be talking about kind of

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<v Speaker 2>what that means, the game, theory of it, the broader implications,

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<v Speaker 2>whether we think this is a good strategy, all sorts

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<v Speaker 2>of Risky Business. E takes on the protests, including why

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<v Speaker 2>I'm scared of crowds. But before we get into all

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<v Speaker 2>of that night, there was some news over the weekend

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<v Speaker 2>that the louver was robbed and within seven minutes a

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<v Speaker 2>team of robbers was able to get into the second

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<v Speaker 2>floor window and steal some priceless jewelry. They got in,

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<v Speaker 2>they got out. By the way, this was nine thirty

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<v Speaker 2>in the morning, right, Like, this wasn't late at night,

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<v Speaker 2>just completely brazen daytime robbery.

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<v Speaker 3>Why would you accepting it then?

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<v Speaker 4>Right?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's nice.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean the French that with the French, I mean

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<v Speaker 4>they're barely even woke up. They're having their third cup

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<v Speaker 4>of coffee and their fifth cigarette, right, so they're just

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<v Speaker 4>getting started.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean yeah, I think nine thirty am they are

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<v Speaker 2>still getting started. And yeah, the robbers they took a

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<v Speaker 2>truck mounted ladder and then they gained access to the

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<v Speaker 2>second floor, which was the Apollo Gallery, and so they

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<v Speaker 2>were able to get some of the French Crown jewels

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<v Speaker 2>that dated back to Napoleon, and eight of nine items

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<v Speaker 2>remain unaccounted for. They dropped one.

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<v Speaker 1>Which was really weird. They dropped a crowd. I was like, wait,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, how do you get a break?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think so. I was like, how do you

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<v Speaker 2>drop it? Like was your tote back wrong? Like what

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<v Speaker 2>did something rip?

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<v Speaker 4>Like?

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<v Speaker 1>Were you using plastic bags?

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<v Speaker 4>Like?

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<v Speaker 1>What's going on here?

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<v Speaker 3>Are they going to sell you them? eBay? Where are

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<v Speaker 3>they going to sell them?

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<v Speaker 1>I have no idea.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh apparently actually they dropped two items and not not

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<v Speaker 2>actually one item, So yeah, I have no idea. What

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<v Speaker 2>do you do with crown jewels? I mean I guess

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<v Speaker 2>one of the things you can do is take the

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<v Speaker 2>jewels off, right, like somehow like break it apart and

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<v Speaker 2>from priceless relic make it into just black market jewelry.

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<v Speaker 4>It seems like not very economical, right, Like I don't

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<v Speaker 4>have people seal duels that are not crown jewels, and

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<v Speaker 4>like like who would buy would like, uh, maybe Trump

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<v Speaker 4>would buy it?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't know, but yeah, the Crown of m

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<v Speaker 2>PROSEUSIONI is the is the item that was identified the

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<v Speaker 2>other one we don't know. By the way, that piece

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<v Speaker 2>has three and fifty four diamonds and fifty six emeralds.

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<v Speaker 2>That's insane. It was slightly damaged. It was slightly damaged,

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<v Speaker 2>but it didn't completely break Okay. Also, like what the

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<v Speaker 2>hell love like their security, Like I think this is

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<v Speaker 2>the museum with the most number of robberies like that

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<v Speaker 2>in the twentieth and twenty first century that I know

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<v Speaker 2>of the Mona Lisa was stolen, right, Like that should

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<v Speaker 2>be the one thing that like you're really really guarding

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<v Speaker 2>really well, and they've had other break ins throughout history

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<v Speaker 2>of Like, come on, French people, French security.

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<v Speaker 1>Like, get your shit together. What's going on?

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<v Speaker 3>If they just do things in their own way. I

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<v Speaker 3>admire the French, I admire the friend.

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<v Speaker 2>I listen, I admire the French. I admire the robbers here.

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm so sorry tourists who you know, we're leaving

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<v Speaker 2>your tour of the Mona Lisa to the last day.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, you were planning to go on a Sunday.

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<v Speaker 1>You were really.

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<v Speaker 2>Excited, and then the museum ended up being closed because

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<v Speaker 2>you know, some royal jewels were stolen. But this is,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, talk about risky business. That's I think that

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<v Speaker 2>your question, Nate, like I laughed at it, but like,

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<v Speaker 2>what in the world are you.

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<v Speaker 1>Going to do with it?

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<v Speaker 2>Is a really pertinent question because this is a huge risk, right,

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<v Speaker 2>like you are actually like if you're getting if you

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<v Speaker 2>get caught, like that's seems like those consequences are going

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<v Speaker 2>to be pretty dire. So you probably need to have

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<v Speaker 2>a really good plan in place for what you're going

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<v Speaker 2>to do and how you're going to profit from this heist.

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<v Speaker 1>And a lot of.

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<v Speaker 2>People don't think that far ahead and don't realize that

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of stolen artifacts are really hard to move,

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<v Speaker 2>right so unless maybe they have a buyer already, like

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<v Speaker 2>maybe there's like somewhere an Elon Musk type figure. And

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<v Speaker 2>I mean that in terms of like the amount of

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<v Speaker 2>money that you have who is willing to pay you know,

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<v Speaker 2>millions and millions of dollars for these specific crown jewels.

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<v Speaker 4>If you if you buy stolen property. Isn't that like

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<v Speaker 4>some felony or misscenario at least?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I don't know the rules in France, but yes,

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<v Speaker 2>absolutely and will we'll uh, there will definitely be Interpol

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<v Speaker 2>on the case. And yes, there's definitely there are safeguards

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<v Speaker 2>in place against buying them, but I'm assuming that the

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<v Speaker 2>person who would purchase them would also do it completely

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<v Speaker 2>you know, off the grid like some there are the blockchain,

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<v Speaker 2>the blotching. Yes, all right, this this episode brought to you,

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<v Speaker 2>this heist brought to you by bit Quiet Watching. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>it's a it is a hilarious I mean not hilarious,

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<v Speaker 2>but it is a funny bit of news. And maybe Nate,

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<v Speaker 2>So we're recording this on Monday, October twentieth. Maybe by

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<v Speaker 2>the time it airs on Wednesday, the thiefs will have

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<v Speaker 2>been caught and that will be like a huge win

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<v Speaker 2>for French police. But it took a long time for

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<v Speaker 2>the Mona Lisa to be recovered when it was stolen,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm from Boston, I obviously remember like the Isabella

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<v Speaker 2>Stuart Gardner Museum heist, which was huge those none of

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<v Speaker 2>those works of art have been recovered, so it can

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<v Speaker 2>take a really long time from moment of theft to

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<v Speaker 2>actually recovering, and that moment of time could be never.

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<v Speaker 2>So let's see what happens this time day. If you

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<v Speaker 2>were going to rob a museum, purely hypothetically, what would

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<v Speaker 2>you steal? Like, is there an item in a museum

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<v Speaker 2>somewhere that you're like, man, I really just want this

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<v Speaker 2>at home.

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<v Speaker 3>No, because I would get caught.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll get caught.

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<v Speaker 4>I would go to like the little cafe when they

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<v Speaker 4>have the jaded barista and take like, you know whatever

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<v Speaker 4>five hundred bucks said. Yeah, I wouldn't like, I wouldn't

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<v Speaker 4>want to deprive uh people of the opportunity to see art.

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<v Speaker 3>I've always found it like a little.

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<v Speaker 4>Bit strange to have like a really valuable piece of

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<v Speaker 4>art in your private collection and we collect art like

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<v Speaker 4>but nothing super Yeah, I.

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<v Speaker 1>Totally I totally agree with that.

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<v Speaker 2>And I hate, you know, I hate when there are

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<v Speaker 2>people who buy some like truly beautiful painting and then

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<v Speaker 2>refuse to load it out, and like, I understand their

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<v Speaker 2>insurance considerations, et cetera, et cetera, but come on, Like,

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<v Speaker 2>if the Goggenheims could lend out their entire collection, like

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<v Speaker 2>you can. You can make it work. And you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I totally get wanting to live with a beautiful piece

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<v Speaker 2>of art in your home, but you also like, you

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<v Speaker 2>can't protect it and take care of it the same

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<v Speaker 2>way a museum can. And I think there's a there's

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<v Speaker 2>definitely a case to be made that sure, you can

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<v Speaker 2>have it, but like lend it out, let people see it.

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<v Speaker 2>Share the beauty, right, share the beauty with the world.

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<v Speaker 2>And by the way, talking about risk, during the Palisade

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<v Speaker 2>fires earlier this year, some absolutely irreplaceable works of art

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<v Speaker 2>were destroyed, right Because you could be a billionaire with

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<v Speaker 2>a gorgeous Pacific Highway house in Malibu or wherever, and

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<v Speaker 2>your house.

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<v Speaker 1>Goes up in flames and that's it unless you're the.

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<v Speaker 4>Getty.

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<v Speaker 2>The Getty was fine. The Getty has an incredibly sophisticated

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<v Speaker 2>anti fire protection system, but most normal houses do not.

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<v Speaker 2>So some works of art were really uh gone forever now.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's a risk that you take when you have

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<v Speaker 2>something like that in your home.

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<v Speaker 1>Or in the louver.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess the risk you take is that it's going

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<v Speaker 2>to get stolen at some point. So yeah, no, I

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<v Speaker 2>actually I agree with that. I don't think I wouldn't

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<v Speaker 2>steal anything either, because I really do think that these

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<v Speaker 2>art is to be shared right as art is something

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<v Speaker 2>that makes us all uniquely human and it's such a

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<v Speaker 2>beautiful thing for all of us to share in common.

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<v Speaker 3>And I'm going to do some high risk crimes. I

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<v Speaker 3>can think of a lot more fun positively the high

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<v Speaker 3>risk crimes.

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<v Speaker 2>Maria, I totally, yeah, absolutely like what Nate, hypothetically speaking,

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<v Speaker 2>we'll take this, we'll take this off the podcast well

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<v Speaker 2>more more for our pushkin plus subscribers.

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<v Speaker 3>What would want crime?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so our would be criminal spree, Nate is short

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<v Speaker 2>lived because we've decided that we're not going to steal

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<v Speaker 2>anything from the art museum, but we will retain the

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<v Speaker 2>optionality of doing something that's going to be lower risk

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<v Speaker 2>and higher reward. On that note, let's talk about the

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<v Speaker 2>No King's protests that happened over the weekend. Nate, did

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<v Speaker 2>you participate?

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<v Speaker 3>No, A, It's not my vibe.

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<v Speaker 4>Although I'm sympathetic to change the protesters and b I

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<v Speaker 4>in certain ways, I do take myself seriously as a journalist,

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<v Speaker 4>and I think if I went, it would be appropriate

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<v Speaker 4>to cover them more arms length and not to participate

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<v Speaker 4>but you know, we can talk about that or not.

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<v Speaker 3>Did you, Maria.

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<v Speaker 2>I did not for various reasons, but the biggest one

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<v Speaker 2>of which is I can't deal with crowds, like I

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<v Speaker 2>hate events where there no, I really can't, Like I

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<v Speaker 2>get really clustrophobic and really anxious.

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<v Speaker 1>And I know, I look, you are both.

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<v Speaker 4>We both live I know, in New York City and

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<v Speaker 4>Las Vegas, which I maybe I mean not in the world,

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<v Speaker 4>but there's.

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<v Speaker 2>A very different so there's so there's a very different

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<v Speaker 2>mentality when you're in a huge crowd of people protesting

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<v Speaker 2>versus like, you know, on a commute. And just to

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<v Speaker 2>just to give you an example, so this Saturday, which

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<v Speaker 2>is when the protests were happening, I went to Grand Central,

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<v Speaker 2>where I never go. I hate Grand Central, but I

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<v Speaker 2>went because it really Yeah, Grand Central's nice, it's beautiful,

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<v Speaker 2>but I just, oh, I don't like any of the

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<v Speaker 2>like I don't like going to train stations like and

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<v Speaker 2>if I go there, it's for travel, but like Grand Central,

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<v Speaker 2>I never have to use like for whatever reason, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I never travel out of Grand Central anyway. So I

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<v Speaker 2>went there specifically to see the Dear New York exhibition

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<v Speaker 2>from Humans of New York that was closing this weekend.

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<v Speaker 2>It was two weeks during which Grand Central all of

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<v Speaker 2>the advertising was taken off and it was completely taken

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<v Speaker 2>over by the humans of New York Photography. And they

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<v Speaker 2>also had a Steinway piano which was donated that was

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<v Speaker 2>in the middle of the hall, and they had Juilliard

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<v Speaker 2>musicians play during the day and some other cameos. Anyway,

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<v Speaker 2>so this was a big thing and I wanted to

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<v Speaker 2>see it, and I ended up leaving very quickly because

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<v Speaker 2>going the day before it closed was not a good idea.

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<v Speaker 2>And it was so ridiculously crowded and there were so

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<v Speaker 2>many people that I couldn't appreciate the photography and the

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<v Speaker 2>art and all of these things, because not only could

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<v Speaker 2>I not see anything, but I was being jostled from

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<v Speaker 2>every single side, and I was like, you know what,

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<v Speaker 2>it's not I'm getting out of here. Like I actually

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<v Speaker 2>started feeling, you know, this sense of claustrophobia and anxiety.

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<v Speaker 2>So I don't do well in situations where there are

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<v Speaker 2>too many people near me. I hate crowded subways.

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<v Speaker 1>Night.

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<v Speaker 2>Whenever I see one that's too crowded and I have

0:11:43.964 --> 0:11:47.084
<v Speaker 2>to get on, I'm like oh, man, I suddenly envision

0:11:47.164 --> 0:11:50.364
<v Speaker 2>the worst case scenario, which is that we get stuck, right,

0:11:50.484 --> 0:11:53.524
<v Speaker 2>that we get stuck in between stations, and I'm on

0:11:53.564 --> 0:11:57.724
<v Speaker 2>this ridiculously crowded subway car and I have been something

0:11:59.084 --> 0:12:01.284
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I just really I have no idea.

0:12:01.644 --> 0:12:04.604
<v Speaker 2>I just really do not like crowds. It's something that like,

0:12:05.324 --> 0:12:08.404
<v Speaker 2>I get very anxious over. So no, I did not

0:12:08.484 --> 0:12:10.964
<v Speaker 2>go to that protest, and I'm not a protest person.

0:12:11.724 --> 0:12:18.124
<v Speaker 2>But the underlying question was kind of was there for

0:12:18.164 --> 0:12:21.244
<v Speaker 2>a reason, which is that if we think about protests

0:12:21.764 --> 0:12:25.884
<v Speaker 2>in a broader sense, there's a very strong kind of

0:12:25.924 --> 0:12:30.364
<v Speaker 2>game theoretic reason why protests are powerful, and that has

0:12:30.684 --> 0:12:33.964
<v Speaker 2>nothing to do with like, oh, you're in a crowd,

0:12:34.004 --> 0:12:38.484
<v Speaker 2>but everything to do with signaling. Right, So a protest,

0:12:39.364 --> 0:12:42.324
<v Speaker 2>there's I didn't not go because I don't think it's

0:12:42.364 --> 0:12:45.644
<v Speaker 2>not worth it. I didn't go because just personally, I,

0:12:45.924 --> 0:12:48.124
<v Speaker 2>like I said, I hate crowds. But I do think

0:12:48.124 --> 0:12:52.084
<v Speaker 2>it's worth it for the simple reason that there's coordination

0:12:52.284 --> 0:12:55.004
<v Speaker 2>issues and kind of there's power in sending a very

0:12:55.044 --> 0:12:59.524
<v Speaker 2>strong signal that people can then look at to say, oh,

0:12:59.884 --> 0:13:02.004
<v Speaker 2>I'm not the only one who feels this way, there

0:13:02.004 --> 0:13:05.044
<v Speaker 2>are lots of people who feel this way. And now

0:13:05.124 --> 0:13:07.924
<v Speaker 2>I know, right now that I know that there is

0:13:08.044 --> 0:13:11.364
<v Speaker 2>all of this support out there for something that I

0:13:11.484 --> 0:13:15.924
<v Speaker 2>believe that is not always visible because when you're online

0:13:16.044 --> 0:13:18.444
<v Speaker 2>kind of in you know, Twitter or whatever it is,

0:13:18.484 --> 0:13:21.204
<v Speaker 2>you see a very specific subset of opinions. You're in

0:13:21.244 --> 0:13:26.884
<v Speaker 2>a very specific bubble. But protests throughout history, when people

0:13:26.964 --> 0:13:29.924
<v Speaker 2>go out in public, it's a signaling mechanism, right, and

0:13:30.524 --> 0:13:35.284
<v Speaker 2>it's then a coordination mechanism where you can actually point

0:13:35.284 --> 0:13:37.444
<v Speaker 2>to it and say, Okay, look, you know, here's a

0:13:37.444 --> 0:13:41.964
<v Speaker 2>group of people who hold certain views, and that can

0:13:42.004 --> 0:13:47.124
<v Speaker 2>be incredibly powerful for future momentum and future decision making.

0:13:47.324 --> 0:13:49.564
<v Speaker 2>By the way, it's even more powerful when we're talking

0:13:49.564 --> 0:13:55.524
<v Speaker 2>about truly authoritarian regimes countries where there's very little communication

0:13:56.084 --> 0:13:58.444
<v Speaker 2>between people. We're not there yet in the United States,

0:13:58.644 --> 0:14:01.004
<v Speaker 2>but it's powerful even in a democratic society.

0:14:02.204 --> 0:14:02.524
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:14:02.564 --> 0:14:07.484
<v Speaker 4>Look, these process had a very large scale. They happened

0:14:07.484 --> 0:14:11.724
<v Speaker 4>in hundreds of cities. I'm always a little bit skeptical

0:14:11.884 --> 0:14:15.204
<v Speaker 4>of crowd sized estimates, which tend to be overestimates, but

0:14:15.484 --> 0:14:18.684
<v Speaker 4>several million, I think it's safe to say, which makes

0:14:18.724 --> 0:14:20.564
<v Speaker 4>it quite high on a list of like all time

0:14:21.044 --> 0:14:25.964
<v Speaker 4>one day protests at least. I mean, look, as you

0:14:26.044 --> 0:14:31.804
<v Speaker 4>get a larger size of crowd, then these things tend

0:14:31.844 --> 0:14:37.044
<v Speaker 4>to become a little bit more amorphous, right, And you

0:14:37.044 --> 0:14:41.204
<v Speaker 4>can see various critiques like, Okay, maybe the protests are

0:14:41.244 --> 0:14:43.804
<v Speaker 4>a little bit cringe and considering who we're dealing with, right,

0:14:43.804 --> 0:14:47.124
<v Speaker 4>we're dealing with like kind of like mostly boomery, good

0:14:47.164 --> 0:14:50.044
<v Speaker 4>government democrat types. Yeah, they're a little cringe, right, And

0:14:50.164 --> 0:14:53.404
<v Speaker 4>like the message just when you can critique, I mean,

0:14:54.084 --> 0:14:54.524
<v Speaker 4>you know.

0:14:54.564 --> 0:14:57.684
<v Speaker 3>Does no kings quite makes sense?

0:14:57.964 --> 0:15:01.084
<v Speaker 4>I'm not sure the idea is Trump is a king

0:15:01.284 --> 0:15:03.684
<v Speaker 4>so much as an authoritarian.

0:15:03.724 --> 0:15:06.444
<v Speaker 3>Those aren't quite the same thing exactly, But.

0:15:08.084 --> 0:15:10.044
<v Speaker 4>It kind of doesn't matter because like what you're trying

0:15:10.044 --> 0:15:13.004
<v Speaker 4>to do is a demonstrate that, like, you know, yes,

0:15:13.044 --> 0:15:16.484
<v Speaker 4>we don't have elections all that often, and yes, last

0:15:16.484 --> 0:15:20.884
<v Speaker 4>time we had an election, Trump one narrowly, but there

0:15:20.964 --> 0:15:24.844
<v Speaker 4>are a lot of us number one, you know, a

0:15:24.884 --> 0:15:28.364
<v Speaker 4>conservative reminder to like the the media and things like that.

0:15:28.404 --> 0:15:30.284
<v Speaker 4>I mean, Trump is not that popular in the polls.

0:15:30.324 --> 0:15:32.764
<v Speaker 4>He's not popular in the polls. He's not that unpopular either, right,

0:15:32.804 --> 0:15:37.964
<v Speaker 4>but like you know, these things can be a spectacle

0:15:38.084 --> 0:15:41.404
<v Speaker 4>in part and attract attention, that is, if anything like

0:15:41.484 --> 0:15:46.404
<v Speaker 4>a little bit outsize relative to the number of people participating, right,

0:15:46.404 --> 0:15:49.124
<v Speaker 4>because they're physical, they're outside there. In some cases do

0:15:49.164 --> 0:15:51.124
<v Speaker 4>you seem to be rather gentle minded, but they can

0:15:51.204 --> 0:15:52.924
<v Speaker 4>be like confrontational.

0:15:53.004 --> 0:15:53.124
<v Speaker 2>Right.

0:15:53.164 --> 0:15:57.244
<v Speaker 3>If you look at the number of students of the people.

0:15:57.124 --> 0:16:02.124
<v Speaker 4>Participating in the pro Palestinian protests over the past year

0:16:02.124 --> 0:16:06.204
<v Speaker 4>and a half, those are not I'm being honest, those

0:16:06.204 --> 0:16:07.564
<v Speaker 4>are not particularly large protests.

0:16:07.564 --> 0:16:09.044
<v Speaker 3>If you'd look look at the numbers for that. It's

0:16:09.044 --> 0:16:10.924
<v Speaker 3>not like Kings or something like that.

0:16:11.044 --> 0:16:14.284
<v Speaker 4>Right, However, they still got a ton of media coverage

0:16:14.604 --> 0:16:16.764
<v Speaker 4>shipped the narrative. I'm not sure whether they shifted the

0:16:16.844 --> 0:16:19.084
<v Speaker 4>narrative in the direction of protesters wanted they, but they

0:16:19.164 --> 0:16:23.644
<v Speaker 4>have they have a big effect potentially, Yeah, for sure.

0:16:23.564 --> 0:16:27.764
<v Speaker 2>For sure. And I do think that the narrative is

0:16:27.844 --> 0:16:31.724
<v Speaker 2>also something that's that's quite important. So I mentioned before

0:16:32.644 --> 0:16:36.564
<v Speaker 2>kind of the signaling mechanism, which is on an individual

0:16:36.644 --> 0:16:40.964
<v Speaker 2>level I think important to then coordinate action further down

0:16:41.004 --> 0:16:48.364
<v Speaker 2>the line. But also framing the narrative is, especially in

0:16:48.404 --> 0:16:54.644
<v Speaker 2>the modern age, something that is really important in an

0:16:54.684 --> 0:16:58.724
<v Speaker 2>intentionally divided economy. Right, it to not in the past

0:16:58.764 --> 0:17:02.684
<v Speaker 2>where everyone watched one single TV show, right, or one

0:17:02.804 --> 0:17:07.284
<v Speaker 2>single news channel, and there was kind of this collective

0:17:09.044 --> 0:17:11.124
<v Speaker 2>knowledge of like, oh, these are the things that are

0:17:11.164 --> 0:17:14.084
<v Speaker 2>in the news, et cetera, et cetera. These days, it's

0:17:14.204 --> 0:17:19.084
<v Speaker 2>very fragmented, right, There's a very fragmented media landscape, and

0:17:20.004 --> 0:17:23.644
<v Speaker 2>so many different things are vuying for our attention on

0:17:23.804 --> 0:17:28.644
<v Speaker 2>any given basis. And the Trump administration has shown itself

0:17:28.684 --> 0:17:32.924
<v Speaker 2>to be much better than a lot of democratic operatives,

0:17:32.964 --> 0:17:36.524
<v Speaker 2>to be perfectly honest at capturing attention and creating a narrative,

0:17:36.644 --> 0:17:39.844
<v Speaker 2>right and creating something that makes it feel like it's

0:17:39.884 --> 0:17:44.284
<v Speaker 2>this inevitable all American force, and something like the No

0:17:44.484 --> 0:17:48.084
<v Speaker 2>King's protest is a really interesting moment that can potentially

0:17:48.164 --> 0:17:49.404
<v Speaker 2>shape the narrative of weight.

0:17:49.764 --> 0:17:50.404
<v Speaker 1>You know, we have.

0:17:50.364 --> 0:17:54.684
<v Speaker 2>Protesters in the heart of Red Texas and all of

0:17:54.724 --> 0:17:57.724
<v Speaker 2>these different areas, and they've all come out, and they've

0:17:57.764 --> 0:18:01.844
<v Speaker 2>all coordinated, and it's a pretty significant number of people,

0:18:02.284 --> 0:18:05.284
<v Speaker 2>and so it's a I think it's a way of

0:18:05.684 --> 0:18:08.004
<v Speaker 2>creating a counter narrative to a lot of what we

0:18:08.084 --> 0:18:09.724
<v Speaker 2>see online.

0:18:09.524 --> 0:18:14.724
<v Speaker 3>And we'll be right back after this break.

0:18:27.884 --> 0:18:30.724
<v Speaker 2>This might lead us Nate to kind of a broader

0:18:30.804 --> 0:18:33.884
<v Speaker 2>consideration of you know, what matters, right when you're trying

0:18:33.884 --> 0:18:37.044
<v Speaker 2>to kind of craft this craft a narrative that actually

0:18:37.644 --> 0:18:41.484
<v Speaker 2>changes minds and changes action, because one of the critiques

0:18:41.524 --> 0:18:43.484
<v Speaker 2>one can have of things like protest is, well, you're

0:18:43.524 --> 0:18:47.484
<v Speaker 2>not actually doing anything right. You're not voting, you're not lobbying,

0:18:47.524 --> 0:18:51.444
<v Speaker 2>you're not changing legislation, you're not reaching out to your

0:18:51.484 --> 0:18:54.324
<v Speaker 2>congress people like, you're not doing anything like that. But

0:18:54.364 --> 0:18:56.724
<v Speaker 2>on the other hand, you're doing something because you're sending

0:18:57.004 --> 0:18:59.684
<v Speaker 2>a signal to the government. You know that these are

0:18:59.724 --> 0:19:01.964
<v Speaker 2>the things that matter here where people who feel this

0:19:02.004 --> 0:19:04.364
<v Speaker 2>way live, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So let

0:19:04.444 --> 0:19:07.004
<v Speaker 2>me let me just let me just stop there and

0:19:07.044 --> 0:19:10.124
<v Speaker 2>get your thoughts on this and on because of your thoughts,

0:19:10.124 --> 0:19:14.044
<v Speaker 2>your thoughts more broadly kind of about the effectives of

0:19:14.124 --> 0:19:17.284
<v Speaker 2>certain tactics versus other when you're trying to shape a

0:19:17.364 --> 0:19:21.004
<v Speaker 2>narrative that with the ultimate goal, because presumably this is

0:19:21.004 --> 0:19:25.004
<v Speaker 2>the ultimate goal of change, right, of actually affecting real

0:19:25.124 --> 0:19:27.924
<v Speaker 2>change in the government, in government policies and in what

0:19:28.124 --> 0:19:29.804
<v Speaker 2>happens in the country going forward.

0:19:30.364 --> 0:19:33.284
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, look, I mean compared to other things, I say,

0:19:33.284 --> 0:19:35.844
<v Speaker 4>protesting is relatively effective. I mean, like I you know,

0:19:36.204 --> 0:19:41.844
<v Speaker 4>protesting is higher effort than voting, and voting is samously

0:19:42.364 --> 0:19:45.844
<v Speaker 4>questionably rational. I suppose if you live in the state

0:19:45.924 --> 0:19:47.724
<v Speaker 4>like New York, you have your you can voting about it.

0:19:48.244 --> 0:19:50.524
<v Speaker 4>But like, as you don't New York, you're voting.

0:19:50.644 --> 0:19:51.244
<v Speaker 3>Voting kind of.

0:19:51.404 --> 0:19:52.004
<v Speaker 1>As a.

0:19:54.324 --> 0:19:57.604
<v Speaker 4>Symbolic act does a specific act is a protest almost

0:19:57.684 --> 0:20:04.244
<v Speaker 4>and not necessarily is like I'm actually influence the election result, right. Yeah, Look,

0:20:04.524 --> 0:20:06.364
<v Speaker 4>part of it is I don't like the people that

0:20:06.564 --> 0:20:08.804
<v Speaker 4>kind of talk about like setting the narrative very often

0:20:10.204 --> 0:20:12.004
<v Speaker 4>are very good about setting.

0:20:15.004 --> 0:20:16.124
<v Speaker 1>I think that's very true.

0:20:16.324 --> 0:20:21.004
<v Speaker 4>And you know, a critique the Democrats strategy on the shutdown,

0:20:21.164 --> 0:20:26.684
<v Speaker 4>right because like it's like it's like too narrow and

0:20:26.804 --> 0:20:28.364
<v Speaker 4>like it's not you know, I don't know, right, And

0:20:28.484 --> 0:20:31.524
<v Speaker 4>it's like you have to focus on healthcare, right, But

0:20:31.564 --> 0:20:34.724
<v Speaker 4>their question is not about healthcare. If you look at

0:20:34.764 --> 0:20:37.364
<v Speaker 4>like Google searches for healthcare, people are not particularly focused

0:20:37.724 --> 0:20:39.084
<v Speaker 4>on that. It's not what they're I mean, they care

0:20:39.084 --> 0:20:41.124
<v Speaker 4>about healthcare, it's like not what their heart is into.

0:20:41.764 --> 0:20:42.724
<v Speaker 3>So have us kind of like.

0:20:43.724 --> 0:20:53.004
<v Speaker 4>Amorphous outpouring of peaceful anti Trump sentiment. That's kind of

0:20:53.164 --> 0:20:56.444
<v Speaker 4>more not normy. I'm sure that people there are watching

0:20:56.484 --> 0:20:59.444
<v Speaker 4>what then was NBC and reading lotless substacks, right, but like,

0:20:59.924 --> 0:21:00.724
<v Speaker 4>but to have this kind of.

0:21:00.724 --> 0:21:03.404
<v Speaker 3>More normy vibe, I think you.

0:21:05.044 --> 0:21:08.164
<v Speaker 4>Worthwhile, right, and you know it's trobably more effective than

0:21:08.164 --> 0:21:09.724
<v Speaker 4>they shut down, which agin I think it's how and

0:21:09.764 --> 0:21:12.644
<v Speaker 4>thank for Democrats very much at all. You know, so

0:21:12.844 --> 0:21:16.844
<v Speaker 4>I do not think you know, people in Blue Sky

0:21:16.924 --> 0:21:18.724
<v Speaker 4>can quote me on this. I do not think that

0:21:18.884 --> 0:21:25.364
<v Speaker 4>we are on like the doorstep to authoritarianism. I think

0:21:25.564 --> 0:21:30.044
<v Speaker 4>I think America has I think it's the over simplication, right,

0:21:30.084 --> 0:21:32.484
<v Speaker 4>I think America has a lot of robust checks and

0:21:32.524 --> 0:21:36.084
<v Speaker 4>balances which are being substantially fraid. I think we might

0:21:36.124 --> 0:21:41.324
<v Speaker 4>be in like the ante room before the doorstep, though, right,

0:21:42.564 --> 0:21:47.724
<v Speaker 4>ye and gef there are actions such as like Trump

0:21:47.844 --> 0:21:49.684
<v Speaker 4>trying to make it difficult for people to vote in

0:21:49.764 --> 0:21:53.844
<v Speaker 4>twenty twenty six or twenty twenty eight for example. Right,

0:21:53.924 --> 0:21:56.964
<v Speaker 4>I mean you can imagine open defiance to leave the

0:21:57.004 --> 0:22:00.844
<v Speaker 4>White House after his term is over, open defiance of

0:22:00.884 --> 0:22:03.644
<v Speaker 4>a Supreme Court order. You know, one thing that I'll

0:22:03.684 --> 0:22:05.284
<v Speaker 4>hear from is you'll see you'll hear your kind of

0:22:05.324 --> 0:22:10.684
<v Speaker 4>democratic activists types kind of say, like, look, I realized

0:22:10.724 --> 0:22:13.404
<v Speaker 4>that if you're kind of like leading your life, then

0:22:13.564 --> 0:22:17.004
<v Speaker 4>things might seem pretty normal unless you're an immigrant or

0:22:17.044 --> 0:22:19.564
<v Speaker 4>unless you's these other you know, a student, unless it's

0:22:19.564 --> 0:22:23.204
<v Speaker 4>other sugar categories. And like in some sense and some

0:22:23.324 --> 0:22:27.644
<v Speaker 4>since Trump has been smart about that, right, Like he's

0:22:27.644 --> 0:22:30.644
<v Speaker 4>been smart about like the world doesn't feel like it's

0:22:31.884 --> 0:22:35.084
<v Speaker 4>in chaos if you live in in New York, right,

0:22:35.404 --> 0:22:38.284
<v Speaker 4>And I even think that, like, you know, there are

0:22:38.404 --> 0:22:42.844
<v Speaker 4>things like the ice raids and National Guard deployments in

0:22:42.964 --> 0:22:45.564
<v Speaker 4>different cities and things like that, right, and if you're

0:22:45.604 --> 0:22:48.404
<v Speaker 4>very politically aware of these will seem a whole right,

0:22:48.484 --> 0:22:53.684
<v Speaker 4>But like I don't think they're noticeable for ordinary people either, right,

0:22:53.764 --> 0:22:57.364
<v Speaker 4>Like I was in Chicago for a talk the you know,

0:22:58.244 --> 0:23:00.044
<v Speaker 4>the we can There are a bunch of ice actions

0:23:00.084 --> 0:23:02.484
<v Speaker 4>there on the South side of Chicago, and like I

0:23:02.524 --> 0:23:06.484
<v Speaker 4>actually had a bunch of like political conversations there. I mean,

0:23:06.524 --> 0:23:08.204
<v Speaker 4>I have friends there who are interested in politics, and

0:23:08.244 --> 0:23:10.164
<v Speaker 4>they woud talk where we talking abouts and stuff like that,

0:23:10.284 --> 0:23:13.244
<v Speaker 4>and like it didn't really come up, right, not because

0:23:13.244 --> 0:23:14.804
<v Speaker 4>of what they think about Politicia unaware of it though,

0:23:14.804 --> 0:23:17.764
<v Speaker 4>because like you know, I think there's this gap between

0:23:19.044 --> 0:23:23.284
<v Speaker 4>the way that political insiders and political message crafts people

0:23:23.324 --> 0:23:27.084
<v Speaker 4>who are very online experience politics and the way that

0:23:27.284 --> 0:23:29.804
<v Speaker 4>ordinary people do. I mean talking about a protests that

0:23:29.924 --> 0:23:35.164
<v Speaker 4>has mass numbers millions, millions, you're bridging that gap like

0:23:35.804 --> 0:23:39.444
<v Speaker 4>a little bit, right, because you know what percent of

0:23:39.484 --> 0:23:43.724
<v Speaker 4>people watch MSNBC, Box and New CNN. It's like one

0:23:43.764 --> 0:23:45.724
<v Speaker 4>percent of the country like watching them on the given day.

0:23:45.764 --> 0:23:48.044
<v Speaker 4>It's like quite small, you know what I mean?

0:23:48.724 --> 0:23:49.084
<v Speaker 2>Is that right?

0:23:49.204 --> 0:23:52.084
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it's really small and if anything, probably you know

0:23:52.244 --> 0:23:55.244
<v Speaker 4>political surveys or bioteople who participate, right, and so yeah,

0:23:55.324 --> 0:23:58.564
<v Speaker 4>like you know, the number of MSNBC viewers and the

0:23:58.644 --> 0:24:01.124
<v Speaker 4>demo was in like the low to mid six digits

0:24:01.764 --> 0:24:05.204
<v Speaker 4>usually meaning eighteen to forty nine or how they define that, right.

0:24:05.444 --> 0:24:07.564
<v Speaker 4>You know a lot of older people who are just

0:24:07.644 --> 0:24:10.484
<v Speaker 4>kind of watching TV and maybe not doing that much else.

0:24:11.564 --> 0:24:14.004
<v Speaker 4>But yeah, people kind of miss these scale things and

0:24:14.204 --> 0:24:16.964
<v Speaker 4>like and the number one problem that like political strategies,

0:24:17.044 --> 0:24:20.964
<v Speaker 4>most polical strategists have is like they think exactly the

0:24:20.964 --> 0:24:26.404
<v Speaker 4>opposite from how from how the normies do, right, and

0:24:27.084 --> 0:24:31.644
<v Speaker 4>you know, a more narrow protest, right, like you know,

0:24:31.884 --> 0:24:35.964
<v Speaker 4>I would take again the GOSPAP protests as something that

0:24:36.124 --> 0:24:41.244
<v Speaker 4>have like relatively fear both, right, and they spin out

0:24:41.284 --> 0:24:43.044
<v Speaker 4>on the things and there's messing that might be dumb

0:24:43.164 --> 0:24:46.364
<v Speaker 4>in whatever health, right, But like you know, on a university,

0:24:46.404 --> 0:24:48.844
<v Speaker 4>we want the university to bess these investments and changes

0:24:48.924 --> 0:24:52.924
<v Speaker 4>policy and this and that, right, you know. And those

0:24:52.924 --> 0:24:56.364
<v Speaker 4>are pretty narrowly targeted protests, but smaller in scale. This

0:24:56.524 --> 0:25:00.164
<v Speaker 4>is amorphous. I mean things like Occupy Wall Street, which

0:25:00.244 --> 0:25:04.364
<v Speaker 4>was not particularly large protests, right, but like where the

0:25:04.484 --> 0:25:07.484
<v Speaker 4>Tea Party is an example on the Republican conservative side

0:25:07.764 --> 0:25:10.084
<v Speaker 4>a little bit more right, that's a little bit i'morphous.

0:25:11.524 --> 0:25:17.124
<v Speaker 4>And amorphosis can be good because like you want different

0:25:17.164 --> 0:25:19.964
<v Speaker 4>people to be able to interpret it in different ways,

0:25:20.644 --> 0:25:24.044
<v Speaker 4>and you know, the overall sentiment is clear enough Trump

0:25:24.084 --> 0:25:29.244
<v Speaker 4>babert aboutthoritarrying rule or monarchical rule. I'll give them a

0:25:29.444 --> 0:25:31.724
<v Speaker 4>credit of paths on the imprecise metaphor.

0:25:33.684 --> 0:25:38.444
<v Speaker 2>What do you think is more effective having a protest

0:25:38.484 --> 0:25:41.804
<v Speaker 2>that has very clear stated goals or ones that are

0:25:42.364 --> 0:25:45.364
<v Speaker 2>expressing these broader sentiments, Because I don't know what your

0:25:45.444 --> 0:25:49.644
<v Speaker 2>perception of Occupy Wall Street's ultimate effectiveness was. Mine was

0:25:49.724 --> 0:25:53.684
<v Speaker 2>that not much ended up changing. It was also Occupy

0:25:53.724 --> 0:25:54.924
<v Speaker 2>Wall Street. By the way, it was on a much

0:25:54.964 --> 0:25:58.964
<v Speaker 2>smaller scale than what we're talking about with No Kings.

0:25:59.324 --> 0:26:02.564
<v Speaker 2>But what's your sense of Like if you were trying

0:26:02.684 --> 0:26:05.964
<v Speaker 2>to be like, Okay, you know, I want people to

0:26:07.284 --> 0:26:10.084
<v Speaker 2>be aware of all of these I want draw attention

0:26:10.204 --> 0:26:13.484
<v Speaker 2>to all of these excesses happening that people might not

0:26:13.604 --> 0:26:16.204
<v Speaker 2>be aware of unless they're very like politically tied in.

0:26:16.804 --> 0:26:18.964
<v Speaker 2>I want them to be aware of, you know, tipping

0:26:19.044 --> 0:26:23.444
<v Speaker 2>points in kind of the legal structure, et cetera, et cetera,

0:26:23.884 --> 0:26:26.924
<v Speaker 2>that some of these checks are you know, yes, so

0:26:27.044 --> 0:26:29.964
<v Speaker 2>far democracy is holding. We do have robust checks and balances,

0:26:30.004 --> 0:26:32.324
<v Speaker 2>but we are in the ante room, as you said,

0:26:32.844 --> 0:26:35.484
<v Speaker 2>as you phrased it, and like some of these things

0:26:35.564 --> 0:26:38.844
<v Speaker 2>are really being strained, and a lot of people don't

0:26:38.844 --> 0:26:41.364
<v Speaker 2>seem to be aware of that. Like if you were

0:26:41.524 --> 0:26:44.884
<v Speaker 2>organizing a protest, would it look like the No Kings

0:26:45.004 --> 0:26:48.364
<v Speaker 2>protest broadly speaking? Broadly speaking, like let's as you say,

0:26:48.644 --> 0:26:51.484
<v Speaker 2>you know, let's ignore the semantics, Like would it be

0:26:51.644 --> 0:26:55.524
<v Speaker 2>kind of more amorphous like general sentiment, like please work

0:26:55.564 --> 0:26:57.844
<v Speaker 2>with us legislators and like let's try to figure out

0:26:58.204 --> 0:27:01.044
<v Speaker 2>a strategy to counter this, or would you say you

0:27:01.124 --> 0:27:04.564
<v Speaker 2>know what before we do this protest, like, let's think

0:27:04.644 --> 0:27:08.644
<v Speaker 2>of three big goals and like have everyone have posters

0:27:08.724 --> 0:27:11.164
<v Speaker 2>with those you know, with those goals, et cetera, et cetera,

0:27:11.244 --> 0:27:14.364
<v Speaker 2>and like actually try to do something that is more

0:27:14.684 --> 0:27:17.804
<v Speaker 2>targeted but still broad. I don't know that I have

0:27:17.964 --> 0:27:21.124
<v Speaker 2>a clear answer to that, so I'm curious whether you do.

0:27:21.404 --> 0:27:23.604
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, look, I don't know if I'm the extra don

0:27:23.644 --> 0:27:25.044
<v Speaker 4>protests here. By the way, I think I could buy

0:27:25.084 --> 0:27:27.684
<v Speaker 4>Wall Street. We punched someone above its weight, like a

0:27:27.804 --> 0:27:30.324
<v Speaker 4>kind of introducer at least popularized the praise. We're the

0:27:30.364 --> 0:27:32.884
<v Speaker 4>ninety nine percent than the one percent, and like that's true.

0:27:33.004 --> 0:27:36.204
<v Speaker 4>That's a means for many years, fourteen years later, whatever

0:27:36.244 --> 0:27:38.124
<v Speaker 4>it is is pretty powerful potentially.

0:27:38.564 --> 0:27:40.764
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, look, it's so funny. I totally forgot that that

0:27:40.884 --> 0:27:42.244
<v Speaker 2>came from Occupy Wall Street.

0:27:42.324 --> 0:27:43.164
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you're right.

0:27:44.484 --> 0:27:47.844
<v Speaker 4>Look, I think you have different issues here. What is

0:27:47.884 --> 0:27:53.644
<v Speaker 4>that Although Trump is unpopular, he's not enormously unpopular. He

0:27:53.804 --> 0:27:57.524
<v Speaker 4>won election twice, including just you know, not quite a

0:27:57.604 --> 0:28:00.324
<v Speaker 4>year ago, and the critiques.

0:27:59.964 --> 0:28:02.804
<v Speaker 3>Of him are kind of disparate.

0:28:02.924 --> 0:28:04.644
<v Speaker 4>Right, people don't like, you know, some people are to

0:28:04.724 --> 0:28:06.444
<v Speaker 4>chinking about the economy, which I think might be a

0:28:06.484 --> 0:28:08.644
<v Speaker 4>more appropriate such a per focus in part because like

0:28:09.004 --> 0:28:11.444
<v Speaker 4>it is no whole day to day A little bit

0:28:11.484 --> 0:28:14.004
<v Speaker 4>more people are concerned about immigration or authoritarism, they are

0:28:14.044 --> 0:28:15.964
<v Speaker 4>long standing concerns about climate change and.

0:28:17.564 --> 0:28:18.164
<v Speaker 3>Whatever else.

0:28:18.244 --> 0:28:22.684
<v Speaker 4>People think he's the racist, naphobic, sexist, people think he's corrupt.

0:28:22.884 --> 0:28:26.484
<v Speaker 4>I'm not. I'm not unendorsing any of these ideas, by

0:28:26.524 --> 0:28:28.724
<v Speaker 4>the way, right, But like Trump has always given people

0:28:29.684 --> 0:28:32.244
<v Speaker 4>so many such a large attack surface to term is

0:28:32.284 --> 0:28:35.004
<v Speaker 4>different ways in that like it actually kind of renders

0:28:35.044 --> 0:28:38.004
<v Speaker 4>itself toward it ineffective, right, And so like, on the

0:28:38.084 --> 0:28:45.004
<v Speaker 4>one hand, it might seem like the way to attack

0:28:45.124 --> 0:28:50.204
<v Speaker 4>that is to focus on one particular avenue, right, However

0:28:50.364 --> 0:28:51.924
<v Speaker 4>a is at the right avenue and be like I

0:28:51.924 --> 0:28:54.364
<v Speaker 4>think Karen Tula, that might that might work less well,

0:28:54.524 --> 0:28:58.684
<v Speaker 4>right because like remember one again, all the total anti

0:28:58.724 --> 0:29:01.404
<v Speaker 4>Trump democratic energy, they're trying to make a shutdown about healthcare.

0:29:01.964 --> 0:29:04.684
<v Speaker 4>If you read the newsletters, read the sub sex of

0:29:04.724 --> 0:29:07.844
<v Speaker 4>little Subtext or blue Sky whatever else, right, maybe one

0:29:07.924 --> 0:29:09.684
<v Speaker 4>or two percent of the messages are about healthcare from

0:29:09.804 --> 0:29:13.644
<v Speaker 4>like not the actual base, but like the activist online

0:29:14.404 --> 0:29:16.524
<v Speaker 4>part of the base, right, And so like, you know,

0:29:16.684 --> 0:29:19.924
<v Speaker 4>you're kind of losing people there a little bit. Number two,

0:29:19.964 --> 0:29:23.764
<v Speaker 4>Trump is very very good at like changing the subject

0:29:24.364 --> 0:29:27.764
<v Speaker 4>or redirecting attention. Right, So if he ever has a weakness,

0:29:27.844 --> 0:29:30.924
<v Speaker 4>he's like it's so the metaphor of like Trump being

0:29:30.964 --> 0:29:34.404
<v Speaker 4>a ship that you have different kind of which to attack, right,

0:29:34.604 --> 0:29:37.004
<v Speaker 4>Like it doesn't quite work because it can fight back

0:29:37.404 --> 0:29:41.204
<v Speaker 4>in different ways. Right, yeah, so you know, yeah, maybe

0:29:41.364 --> 0:29:46.284
<v Speaker 4>having this kind of like more amorphous kind of gathering

0:29:46.404 --> 0:29:46.924
<v Speaker 4>of energy.

0:29:47.004 --> 0:29:51.084
<v Speaker 3>You know what I don't know of having I been

0:29:51.244 --> 0:29:54.444
<v Speaker 3>a protests, right, you know, the most important thing is

0:29:54.484 --> 0:29:56.724
<v Speaker 3>probably are you gathering.

0:29:57.764 --> 0:30:04.324
<v Speaker 4>Lists of people who can become politically organized in in

0:30:04.444 --> 0:30:08.924
<v Speaker 4>different ways? And importantly for me, you know, can you

0:30:09.004 --> 0:30:12.684
<v Speaker 4>have these that are outside the offices of the kind

0:30:12.724 --> 0:30:15.124
<v Speaker 4>of capital D democratic party? Right?

0:30:15.164 --> 0:30:16.564
<v Speaker 3>I think the cretic parties.

0:30:16.244 --> 0:30:18.324
<v Speaker 4>Often have healthy at like the local and state level,

0:30:18.364 --> 0:30:20.444
<v Speaker 4>But like I to a Frisch approximation, think that like

0:30:21.364 --> 0:30:23.684
<v Speaker 4>every person in afficition of power and their Credit Party

0:30:24.084 --> 0:30:26.764
<v Speaker 4>should be fired, right, Like I think the party is lost.

0:30:27.004 --> 0:30:29.084
<v Speaker 3>No, I mean seriously, like the the Credit Party is

0:30:29.124 --> 0:30:31.724
<v Speaker 3>like lost, Like you know, it lost an election to

0:30:31.804 --> 0:30:32.684
<v Speaker 3>Trump twice.

0:30:32.804 --> 0:30:36.524
<v Speaker 4>Right. Renominating Joe Biden was a good idea all the

0:30:36.564 --> 0:30:38.844
<v Speaker 4>leaders are too fucking old, like anybody over the age

0:30:38.884 --> 0:30:42.884
<v Speaker 4>of fifty in a leadership position, Let's let's have a

0:30:42.964 --> 0:30:45.484
<v Speaker 4>generational goodbye, right, and if you're the age of fifty,

0:30:45.524 --> 0:30:48.404
<v Speaker 4>their credit party, I think should well. I think, you know,

0:30:48.684 --> 0:30:50.884
<v Speaker 4>Democrats goals may be better off if those people were

0:30:51.724 --> 0:30:53.724
<v Speaker 4>were you know, replaced. Do you want to take a

0:30:53.764 --> 0:30:57.324
<v Speaker 4>couple of mulligans or exceptional right, But like, you know,

0:30:57.484 --> 0:30:59.404
<v Speaker 4>so they have like you know, so, yeah, I'm not

0:30:59.444 --> 0:31:02.164
<v Speaker 4>so sure that it's so far from what I indoors

0:31:02.244 --> 0:31:04.324
<v Speaker 4>I can the vibe is not mine. It feels a

0:31:04.324 --> 0:31:07.084
<v Speaker 4>little cringe to me. But like the cringe is okay,

0:31:07.244 --> 0:31:12.564
<v Speaker 4>creates happens when you have mass support for something, right,

0:31:12.604 --> 0:31:14.964
<v Speaker 4>it's inherently a little cringe. If you go like a

0:31:15.724 --> 0:31:18.724
<v Speaker 4>NFL game, the NFL is the most popular sport, cringe.

0:31:18.884 --> 0:31:21.684
<v Speaker 4>I love football, Right, they're a little bit cringe. Parades

0:31:21.724 --> 0:31:25.404
<v Speaker 4>are fucking cringe at right, Holidays are cringe. I mean,

0:31:25.444 --> 0:31:27.884
<v Speaker 4>all these things that are really popular are like, you know,

0:31:28.484 --> 0:31:31.644
<v Speaker 4>so watch American Idol. American Idol is cringe. Like popular

0:31:31.724 --> 0:31:32.604
<v Speaker 4>things are cringe for you.

0:31:34.724 --> 0:31:36.964
<v Speaker 2>Oh man, don't get me started on parades. I used

0:31:36.964 --> 0:31:41.004
<v Speaker 2>to live right next to the Halloween rad and.

0:31:41.164 --> 0:31:43.844
<v Speaker 1>Uh yeah, and New York.

0:31:45.484 --> 0:31:46.204
<v Speaker 3>Canceled because of that.

0:31:46.484 --> 0:31:47.524
<v Speaker 1>That's what happened.

0:31:48.204 --> 0:31:51.324
<v Speaker 2>So so I had lived in the West Village for

0:31:51.444 --> 0:31:54.364
<v Speaker 2>my like my all of my New York existence, you know,

0:31:54.444 --> 0:31:56.524
<v Speaker 2>that's where I moved when I just moved from, uh

0:31:57.004 --> 0:32:00.324
<v Speaker 2>from Boston and just loved the area and stayed there.

0:32:00.724 --> 0:32:03.964
<v Speaker 2>And so every single year I saw, you know, the

0:32:04.524 --> 0:32:08.164
<v Speaker 2>havoc that happened with the with the Halloween parade, and

0:32:08.764 --> 0:32:11.444
<v Speaker 2>knew that like basically on Halloween, I had to just

0:32:11.524 --> 0:32:14.644
<v Speaker 2>stay in my apartment and like don't do anything that

0:32:14.724 --> 0:32:19.124
<v Speaker 2>crosses Seventh Avenue. And then one day decide I saw

0:32:19.524 --> 0:32:21.644
<v Speaker 2>like there was a restaurant I really wanted to go to,

0:32:21.804 --> 0:32:24.284
<v Speaker 2>and like finally saw reservation pop up, and I was

0:32:24.364 --> 0:32:28.164
<v Speaker 2>like yay and took it. And of course the reservation

0:32:28.244 --> 0:32:30.124
<v Speaker 2>popped up because it was on the other side of

0:32:30.204 --> 0:32:30.964
<v Speaker 2>Seventh Avenue.

0:32:32.444 --> 0:32:35.084
<v Speaker 3>Walter Day. It really if you haven't experienced, it's very

0:32:35.204 --> 0:32:39.444
<v Speaker 3>hard to like but go up to like a roof

0:32:39.564 --> 0:32:42.444
<v Speaker 3>tower and like finally to the streets and their guests.

0:32:42.444 --> 0:32:49.004
<v Speaker 2>Yeah exactly exactly. It's it's horrifying and we'll be back

0:32:49.084 --> 0:33:07.724
<v Speaker 2>right after this. You know, it's interesting to talk about

0:33:07.764 --> 0:33:09.884
<v Speaker 2>this and to and to talk about like the importance

0:33:09.964 --> 0:33:12.724
<v Speaker 2>of general lives because if you and I, when you

0:33:12.844 --> 0:33:15.884
<v Speaker 2>and I talked about, you know, the best way to

0:33:16.164 --> 0:33:18.724
<v Speaker 2>organize a little less than a year ago, Nate and

0:33:18.884 --> 0:33:22.004
<v Speaker 2>we were talking about, you know, what's what can democrats do?

0:33:22.844 --> 0:33:26.804
<v Speaker 2>We decided collectively that they needed to focus on a

0:33:26.884 --> 0:33:29.204
<v Speaker 2>few issues. And when we were talking about how do

0:33:29.284 --> 0:33:32.004
<v Speaker 2>they win, right before Trump got elected, we were saying, Okay,

0:33:32.084 --> 0:33:34.124
<v Speaker 2>you know, your messaging should be focused on a few

0:33:34.204 --> 0:33:37.404
<v Speaker 2>issues where you can actually get votes, where people are

0:33:38.084 --> 0:33:40.924
<v Speaker 2>passionate about this, because the Trump campaign was much more

0:33:40.964 --> 0:33:43.364
<v Speaker 2>effective at that and we were saying, you know, I

0:33:43.484 --> 0:33:46.324
<v Speaker 2>remember you talking about immigration and saying, hey, Democrats, like

0:33:46.404 --> 0:33:49.364
<v Speaker 2>immigration's not your issue, Like stop talking about that instead,

0:33:49.724 --> 0:33:52.684
<v Speaker 2>like let's try to focus on on things that like

0:33:52.764 --> 0:33:55.764
<v Speaker 2>healthcare right that could actually be much more effective. Then

0:33:55.844 --> 0:33:58.404
<v Speaker 2>we were talking, you know, with the shutdown, et cetera,

0:33:58.524 --> 0:34:00.924
<v Speaker 2>that we should really be focusing on, like let's focus

0:34:00.964 --> 0:34:04.124
<v Speaker 2>on tariffs, Like let's let's do something focused when we're

0:34:04.124 --> 0:34:06.964
<v Speaker 2>talking about inside the government, and yet our advice for

0:34:07.204 --> 0:34:10.964
<v Speaker 2>people kind of outside the government seems to be to

0:34:11.924 --> 0:34:15.484
<v Speaker 2>have more of that vibe type of approach where you have,

0:34:16.484 --> 0:34:19.404
<v Speaker 2>as you say, cringe but we don't have to call

0:34:19.444 --> 0:34:23.084
<v Speaker 2>them crinch. But when you have these large scale events

0:34:23.284 --> 0:34:28.124
<v Speaker 2>that just show a general state of malaise, displeasure and

0:34:28.364 --> 0:34:33.364
<v Speaker 2>opens the opens the conversation up for policymakers to kind

0:34:33.364 --> 0:34:36.684
<v Speaker 2>of act in different ways as opposed to like pinpointing

0:34:36.804 --> 0:34:37.644
<v Speaker 2>one specific thing.

0:34:38.164 --> 0:34:39.724
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, let's the other thing is like, if you're a

0:34:39.764 --> 0:34:42.844
<v Speaker 4>political operative, then ironically you have like often a very

0:34:42.884 --> 0:34:47.364
<v Speaker 4>short term time horizon, right. You know, you have a

0:34:47.484 --> 0:34:50.084
<v Speaker 4>job where you get up and were the office of

0:34:50.124 --> 0:34:53.044
<v Speaker 4>eight thirty every every Monday. Maybe it's a romantic snacing

0:34:53.084 --> 0:34:54.684
<v Speaker 4>of it, right, but like, but you know you have

0:34:54.724 --> 0:34:57.724
<v Speaker 4>particular goals you have for that day, that week. That

0:34:57.884 --> 0:35:01.284
<v Speaker 4>news cycle right in the media is the same way, right,

0:35:01.364 --> 0:35:03.444
<v Speaker 4>we have to we have to you know, some weeks, Maria,

0:35:03.564 --> 0:35:05.564
<v Speaker 4>we have eight things people to talk about, right, some

0:35:05.644 --> 0:35:08.884
<v Speaker 4>weeks it's a well struggle, right, but you kind of

0:35:08.924 --> 0:35:10.444
<v Speaker 4>even the ow and something to come talking to point

0:35:10.484 --> 0:35:12.084
<v Speaker 4>and so like you know, yeah, it should be more

0:35:12.164 --> 0:35:15.964
<v Speaker 4>long term focus. Right. We still have more than a

0:35:16.044 --> 0:35:19.644
<v Speaker 4>year until the midterm elections, even we have more than

0:35:19.684 --> 0:35:23.244
<v Speaker 4>three years until the presidential election. And so yeah, you know, look,

0:35:24.444 --> 0:35:27.324
<v Speaker 4>the direct Party has always been that historically they're kind

0:35:27.324 --> 0:35:32.404
<v Speaker 4>of like this collection of different interest groups, right that

0:35:32.684 --> 0:35:36.924
<v Speaker 4>Democrats were collection of young people and union workers and

0:35:37.164 --> 0:35:41.004
<v Speaker 4>people of color and college professors.

0:35:40.484 --> 0:35:44.004
<v Speaker 3>And like you know, gay people and other people who.

0:35:43.964 --> 0:35:47.364
<v Speaker 4>Are you know, you know, ex communists, and like a

0:35:47.404 --> 0:35:50.284
<v Speaker 4>whole monthly crew of different types of folks that like

0:35:50.364 --> 0:35:53.604
<v Speaker 4>don't necessarily have that much interest in common but might

0:35:53.684 --> 0:35:57.484
<v Speaker 4>be marginalizing some ways, kind of like when you get

0:35:57.484 --> 0:36:02.964
<v Speaker 4>it intellectuals, right, you know what the Democratic Party is now,

0:36:03.244 --> 0:36:06.124
<v Speaker 4>it's a little bit less clear, Right, It's lost some

0:36:06.404 --> 0:36:09.804
<v Speaker 4>support from every one of those groups except the point

0:36:09.844 --> 0:36:13.684
<v Speaker 4>he headed intellectuals basically, right, it's loss of kiss among

0:36:14.084 --> 0:36:17.564
<v Speaker 4>Hispanic and Asian Americans. It's some sport among black Democrats.

0:36:17.604 --> 0:36:20.684
<v Speaker 4>It's also live support among like working class union worker

0:36:21.084 --> 0:36:23.804
<v Speaker 4>type of Democrats. Right, it's also sport young people pecularly

0:36:23.884 --> 0:36:28.284
<v Speaker 4>young men. Right. So, well, you know, you still don't

0:36:28.284 --> 0:36:31.724
<v Speaker 4>have a lot of people who have their hat quote

0:36:31.804 --> 0:36:35.724
<v Speaker 4>unquote issues with the environment or LGBT do plus rights,

0:36:35.844 --> 0:36:40.724
<v Speaker 4>or over healthcare or or economics and authority. Right, and

0:36:40.964 --> 0:36:45.244
<v Speaker 4>like when do you say, oh, let's focus on this

0:36:45.364 --> 0:36:48.844
<v Speaker 4>one issue. Well, the other groups you're really upset, right,

0:36:48.924 --> 0:36:53.364
<v Speaker 4>and they'll say, my issue is a matter of existential importance.

0:36:53.404 --> 0:36:56.444
<v Speaker 4>There's with called special pleading, right, It's like very hard

0:36:56.604 --> 0:36:59.484
<v Speaker 4>to like have you know, who gets to pick and

0:36:59.564 --> 0:37:04.284
<v Speaker 4>choose what issues we prioritize and so like have seffy

0:37:04.404 --> 0:37:08.644
<v Speaker 4>amorphous and it's project cussures, Like ambiguity is okay, you

0:37:08.724 --> 0:37:11.244
<v Speaker 4>can be yeah, absolutely USU on your paper, the better.

0:37:11.284 --> 0:37:12.684
<v Speaker 4>I'm like, it seems kind of weird, right, but I

0:37:12.764 --> 0:37:15.284
<v Speaker 4>was pretty good at being optimizing for intiguity.

0:37:16.764 --> 0:37:21.764
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm not surprised, and I'm surprised, but no.

0:37:21.924 --> 0:37:24.124
<v Speaker 2>I actually think that you just made a really important point,

0:37:24.204 --> 0:37:27.724
<v Speaker 2>which is that you know this also having a protest

0:37:27.804 --> 0:37:30.644
<v Speaker 2>that's like the no King's protest unites people right as

0:37:30.684 --> 0:37:33.724
<v Speaker 2>opposed to feel having people feel like they're left out,

0:37:33.804 --> 0:37:36.684
<v Speaker 2>Like this is not my protest, this is everyone's protest.

0:37:36.884 --> 0:37:41.084
<v Speaker 2>This is like uniting on the absolute highest level issue.

0:37:41.564 --> 0:37:44.684
<v Speaker 2>We believe in our democracy and we want to preserve it.

0:37:45.044 --> 0:37:47.724
<v Speaker 2>Because if you think about kind of the psychology of

0:37:48.524 --> 0:37:52.644
<v Speaker 2>in groups and out groups, right, we are very good

0:37:52.684 --> 0:37:55.204
<v Speaker 2>at forming in groups and out groups based on anything, right,

0:37:55.324 --> 0:37:58.644
<v Speaker 2>almost almost immediately, but we're also very good at unifying

0:37:58.964 --> 0:38:02.004
<v Speaker 2>when you can actually kind of get a bigger issue

0:38:02.124 --> 0:38:06.724
<v Speaker 2>that focuses on commonalities as opposed to divisions. And so

0:38:06.844 --> 0:38:09.684
<v Speaker 2>I think that's something like a No King's protest test

0:38:09.964 --> 0:38:14.004
<v Speaker 2>did a really good job of actually tapping into that

0:38:14.204 --> 0:38:18.004
<v Speaker 2>element of psychology right on a high level, Like let's

0:38:18.044 --> 0:38:22.244
<v Speaker 2>put our differences aside. Right, let's put aside whether like

0:38:22.364 --> 0:38:25.604
<v Speaker 2>who we are and what to us is the existential issue,

0:38:25.964 --> 0:38:28.364
<v Speaker 2>and how we feel about you know, all of these

0:38:28.404 --> 0:38:30.884
<v Speaker 2>different people and all of these different policies, and instead

0:38:30.924 --> 0:38:33.644
<v Speaker 2>let's focus on one thing, Like, let's we believe in America.

0:38:33.804 --> 0:38:36.844
<v Speaker 2>We believe in democracy. We want to preserve this thing

0:38:37.324 --> 0:38:40.324
<v Speaker 2>that the country was founded on. And I think that's

0:38:40.364 --> 0:38:44.124
<v Speaker 2>why the No Kings like, even though not quite right,

0:38:44.604 --> 0:38:49.124
<v Speaker 2>while symbolically it actually helps kind of get to that unification.

0:38:49.684 --> 0:38:53.524
<v Speaker 2>It helps to harken back to a moment in history

0:38:53.644 --> 0:38:56.484
<v Speaker 2>when America was united, right where it didn't matter what

0:38:56.604 --> 0:39:00.284
<v Speaker 2>political party you were, it didn't matter, nothing mattered other

0:39:00.404 --> 0:39:02.964
<v Speaker 2>than that we were fighting against the British and we

0:39:03.084 --> 0:39:03.804
<v Speaker 2>wanted to be free.

0:39:03.924 --> 0:39:06.124
<v Speaker 4>Yeah. Look, I mean this is a problem that you

0:39:06.204 --> 0:39:10.044
<v Speaker 4>have in very online communities. Maybe more of the left

0:39:10.084 --> 0:39:12.364
<v Speaker 4>and the right currently reasons explaining the moment. But like

0:39:12.484 --> 0:39:17.604
<v Speaker 4>the notion of online combat on Twitter, blue Sky, Facebook, whatever,

0:39:17.684 --> 0:39:21.204
<v Speaker 4>et cetera. Right, the notion of dunking on people achieving

0:39:21.324 --> 0:39:24.324
<v Speaker 4>kind of social superiority. Right, I tat the people competing

0:39:24.404 --> 0:39:28.244
<v Speaker 4>for hierarchy to tear down a hierarchy to regain putting

0:39:28.244 --> 0:39:31.404
<v Speaker 4>in the hierarchy themselves. Right, And by definition it's kind

0:39:31.444 --> 0:39:36.924
<v Speaker 4>of it's kind of exclusionary. Right. Republicans do lots of

0:39:37.044 --> 0:39:42.444
<v Speaker 4>that too, they are fortunate enough to have this kind

0:39:42.484 --> 0:39:44.284
<v Speaker 4>of And again I'm not a super lib Right, I'm

0:39:44.284 --> 0:39:46.484
<v Speaker 4>gonna say this in a way that believe is like

0:39:47.324 --> 0:39:49.924
<v Speaker 4>a correct arms like fritigue, but like there is a

0:39:50.044 --> 0:39:54.924
<v Speaker 4>substantial like personality cult around Trump that helps keep Republicans

0:39:55.004 --> 0:39:58.364
<v Speaker 4>united with all types of long term cosmus to the country. Right,

0:39:58.404 --> 0:40:03.724
<v Speaker 4>But like Democrats have no equivalent of right, So they're

0:40:03.764 --> 0:40:06.364
<v Speaker 4>both exclusionary at least people kind of like the blue

0:40:06.364 --> 0:40:11.844
<v Speaker 4>sky types and and leaderless really bad, you know what

0:40:11.924 --> 0:40:13.764
<v Speaker 4>I mean. It's like, we have a great idea, but

0:40:13.844 --> 0:40:16.084
<v Speaker 4>we don't want you. You will while you're participating unless

0:40:16.124 --> 0:40:19.044
<v Speaker 4>you agree with us in all these issues. Right, So

0:40:19.244 --> 0:40:22.564
<v Speaker 4>the rep and inclusivity is is very important.

0:40:23.804 --> 0:40:24.004
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:40:24.244 --> 0:40:26.844
<v Speaker 2>I think that that's a key issue that Democrats have

0:40:26.964 --> 0:40:29.444
<v Speaker 2>been ignoring for too long and that they really really

0:40:29.524 --> 0:40:32.364
<v Speaker 2>need to focus on, which is that it's okay, right,

0:40:32.484 --> 0:40:35.444
<v Speaker 2>shades of gray are okay, and we want to include you,

0:40:35.884 --> 0:40:38.604
<v Speaker 2>even if you don't check all of these boxes for

0:40:38.964 --> 0:40:43.284
<v Speaker 2>kind of what the perfect liberal mind thinks on all

0:40:43.364 --> 0:40:46.124
<v Speaker 2>of these issues, you know, what's in vogue on all

0:40:46.204 --> 0:40:48.564
<v Speaker 2>of these things. I think that the Republicans have actually

0:40:48.604 --> 0:40:51.324
<v Speaker 2>been much much better at including people in the party

0:40:51.604 --> 0:40:53.324
<v Speaker 2>and saying, ah, fine, like you don't believe in that,

0:40:53.484 --> 0:40:55.484
<v Speaker 2>but like, at least you you believe in Trump, you

0:40:55.564 --> 0:40:57.684
<v Speaker 2>believe in this, Like, come on in. And I do

0:40:57.804 --> 0:41:02.204
<v Speaker 2>think that the Democratic establishment has actually been very quick

0:41:02.364 --> 0:41:06.404
<v Speaker 2>to I don't want to say like cancel, but to

0:41:06.564 --> 0:41:10.364
<v Speaker 2>cancel their own right to say, well, like sure you're

0:41:10.724 --> 0:41:14.724
<v Speaker 2>you're a Democrat, but you said something I don't like

0:41:14.964 --> 0:41:16.644
<v Speaker 2>about this issue, and.

0:41:16.764 --> 0:41:18.844
<v Speaker 3>So or to dismiss while groups of voters.

0:41:18.884 --> 0:41:22.284
<v Speaker 4>You know, Hillary Clinton made the thing to mislike deplorable

0:41:22.684 --> 0:41:24.964
<v Speaker 4>comment in twenty sixteen, I guess it was, which is

0:41:25.004 --> 0:41:26.964
<v Speaker 4>saying like, yeah, you know, half of.

0:41:28.484 --> 0:41:29.884
<v Speaker 3>Not all voters, half of Trump.

0:41:29.724 --> 0:41:34.684
<v Speaker 4>Voters are irredeemable racist massaging that's deficerate and half are

0:41:35.604 --> 0:41:37.964
<v Speaker 4>redeemable and a little bit misguided, right, which I think

0:41:38.044 --> 0:41:42.164
<v Speaker 4>is actually probably might be about right is a kind

0:41:42.204 --> 0:41:44.844
<v Speaker 4>of empirical statement, right, is a piece.

0:41:44.644 --> 0:41:45.684
<v Speaker 3>Of political analysis.

0:41:45.844 --> 0:41:48.684
<v Speaker 1>But like as a politician.

0:41:48.364 --> 0:41:50.084
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, and like and the fact is that like you

0:41:50.164 --> 0:41:51.964
<v Speaker 4>never know where you find like this is a big

0:41:52.084 --> 0:41:55.764
<v Speaker 4>kind of you know, people mistake, like the group tendency

0:41:55.844 --> 0:41:59.684
<v Speaker 4>with the marginal pingdomcity right in any group. Sure, and

0:41:59.684 --> 0:42:02.964
<v Speaker 4>I've tried to mathematically model this and like, but I

0:42:03.004 --> 0:42:03.964
<v Speaker 4>won't get into the details.

0:42:04.044 --> 0:42:07.284
<v Speaker 3>Now, in any group, there are always marginal voters, right.

0:42:07.404 --> 0:42:08.884
<v Speaker 4>You know the fact that Trump would like go to

0:42:08.924 --> 0:42:11.684
<v Speaker 4>the Bronx and say, I'm going to do a rally

0:42:11.764 --> 0:42:14.084
<v Speaker 4>among the black community of South Bronx And if you

0:42:14.124 --> 0:42:15.524
<v Speaker 4>look at the details, and a lot of people are

0:42:15.524 --> 0:42:17.124
<v Speaker 4>not black and or not from the South Bronx or

0:42:17.124 --> 0:42:19.204
<v Speaker 4>the bronxiul. Right, But like the fact that he's saying

0:42:19.284 --> 0:42:21.244
<v Speaker 4>I would like to have your vote, right, Like, I

0:42:21.284 --> 0:42:25.924
<v Speaker 4>don't think Democrats do the same thing. Right. They don't

0:42:25.964 --> 0:42:29.364
<v Speaker 4>go and say to evangelical white church and say, you

0:42:29.484 --> 0:42:31.884
<v Speaker 4>know what, you're as rationals you might want to hope

0:42:31.884 --> 0:42:33.924
<v Speaker 4>for Democrats, right, maybe you kind of implicitly do it,

0:42:34.004 --> 0:42:36.644
<v Speaker 4>and like who are on the center left are regarded

0:42:36.764 --> 0:42:40.604
<v Speaker 4>as enemies by the far left and often vice versa,

0:42:41.244 --> 0:42:44.004
<v Speaker 4>and so like it. It's you know, getting out of

0:42:44.044 --> 0:42:45.724
<v Speaker 4>that mentality is essential.

0:42:46.324 --> 0:42:49.524
<v Speaker 2>It's absolutely crucial, and I think, you know, the No

0:42:49.724 --> 0:42:52.724
<v Speaker 2>King's protests is a really good step in that direction.

0:42:53.204 --> 0:42:56.844
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, the main kind of takeaways here are like,

0:42:57.364 --> 0:43:00.804
<v Speaker 2>coordination is important, and signaling is important at kind of

0:43:00.964 --> 0:43:04.084
<v Speaker 2>understanding all of that from a game theory standpoint is important,

0:43:04.364 --> 0:43:08.164
<v Speaker 2>but also inclusivity is important and trying to frame things

0:43:08.604 --> 0:43:11.684
<v Speaker 2>in broad terms where you can actually unite people and

0:43:11.764 --> 0:43:15.484
<v Speaker 2>focus on uniting as opposed to dividing and nitpicking and

0:43:15.604 --> 0:43:17.844
<v Speaker 2>like you know saying oh, well you belong, but you

0:43:17.964 --> 0:43:21.004
<v Speaker 2>really don't. You're not our perfect archetype of who we want.

0:43:21.604 --> 0:43:24.284
<v Speaker 2>That it's really important to think in those types of terms.

0:43:24.444 --> 0:43:27.364
<v Speaker 2>And the third thing that we haven't talked about as much,

0:43:27.444 --> 0:43:30.404
<v Speaker 2>but we have mentioned is like people just don't think

0:43:30.604 --> 0:43:33.204
<v Speaker 2>long term, Like if I don't do something right now,

0:43:33.284 --> 0:43:35.364
<v Speaker 2>the Democratic Party is just going to implode. Like if

0:43:35.404 --> 0:43:38.044
<v Speaker 2>I don't if I don't do this, then these are

0:43:38.084 --> 0:43:40.524
<v Speaker 2>the long term consequences, and you don't think, well, like,

0:43:40.644 --> 0:43:43.204
<v Speaker 2>if I don't speak out now, then there might be

0:43:43.284 --> 0:43:46.284
<v Speaker 2>nothing to speak out, nothing left to speak out for

0:43:46.604 --> 0:43:49.564
<v Speaker 2>in a few years. So I think that thinking more

0:43:49.644 --> 0:43:52.964
<v Speaker 2>long term and long term strategy is very important. I

0:43:53.004 --> 0:43:57.324
<v Speaker 2>don't necessarily endorse Nate, you know, acting everyone over fifty

0:43:57.644 --> 0:44:01.844
<v Speaker 2>fifty seems awfully young, but still I you know, I

0:44:01.884 --> 0:44:04.604
<v Speaker 2>think that what you were the spirit of that that

0:44:04.804 --> 0:44:07.884
<v Speaker 2>we do need kind of a little bit. We do

0:44:08.044 --> 0:44:12.084
<v Speaker 2>need some young blood is fair because we do need

0:44:12.124 --> 0:44:14.884
<v Speaker 2>to be thinking about the future, and people who are

0:44:14.924 --> 0:44:18.364
<v Speaker 2>eighty years old are not the future because they're going

0:44:18.444 --> 0:44:20.564
<v Speaker 2>to be dead in the long term that we're talking about,

0:44:21.284 --> 0:44:22.524
<v Speaker 2>absent the singularity.

0:44:25.884 --> 0:44:27.764
<v Speaker 4>I'm with that maybe we can retreat from the antie

0:44:27.844 --> 0:44:30.844
<v Speaker 4>room to the foyer, before the anti room, before the

0:44:30.884 --> 0:44:32.244
<v Speaker 4>doorway to borg caredism.

0:44:35.124 --> 0:44:36.884
<v Speaker 2>Let us know what you think of the show. Reach

0:44:36.924 --> 0:44:40.124
<v Speaker 2>out to us at Risky Business at pushkin dot FM.

0:44:40.884 --> 0:44:43.724
<v Speaker 2>Risky Business is hosted by me Maria Kanakova and.

0:44:43.884 --> 0:44:46.764
<v Speaker 5>By me Nate Silver. The show was a Cool production

0:44:46.884 --> 0:44:50.484
<v Speaker 5>of Pushing Industries and iHeartMedia. This episode was produced by

0:44:50.564 --> 0:44:55.404
<v Speaker 5>Isaac Carter. Our associate producer is Sonya gerwit Lydia, Jean Kott,

0:44:55.444 --> 0:44:58.604
<v Speaker 5>and Daphne Chen are our editors, and our executive producer

0:44:58.724 --> 0:45:01.524
<v Speaker 5>is Jacob Goldstein. Mixing by Sarah Bruger.

0:45:02.164 --> 0:45:04.364
<v Speaker 2>If you like the show, please rate and review us

0:45:04.404 --> 0:45:07.044
<v Speaker 2>so other people can find us too, but once again,

0:45:07.204 --> 0:45:08.964
<v Speaker 2>only if you like us. We don't want those bad

0:45:09.004 --> 0:45:20.804
<v Speaker 2>reviews out there. Thanks for tuning in, MHM.