WEBVTT - The Sacred Mountain, Part 1 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:04.960 Welcome Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of I 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:13.600 Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, are you welcome to 0:00:13.600 --> 0:00:15.640 Stuff to Blow your Mind? My name is Robert Lamb 0:00:15.880 --> 0:00:18.439 and I'm Joe McCormick, and today we are going to 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:22.319 be discussing the sacred mountain. Of course, there's not just 0:00:22.400 --> 0:00:25.279 one sacred mountain. There are many sacred mountains. In fact, 0:00:26.040 --> 0:00:28.200 you know you're probably close to one right now, because 0:00:28.200 --> 0:00:31.120 they're all over the world. We we discussed this a 0:00:31.160 --> 0:00:34.120 little bit in our recent episode about pressure, where we 0:00:34.120 --> 0:00:37.440 were talking about how how the atmosphere gets thinner, of 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:39.360 course as you go higher up, And one of the 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:42.840 things we started talking about was whether you know whether 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:45.879 that might have anything to do with the prevalence of 0:00:46.120 --> 0:00:50.320 sacred or holy mountains in religious and cultural beliefs all 0:00:50.320 --> 0:00:53.120 around the world, because once you start looking for them, 0:00:53.159 --> 0:00:56.800 they're everywhere and every continent. I guess, maybe not so 0:00:56.880 --> 0:00:59.959 much Antarctica, but every other continent. You know, they're they're 0:01:00.320 --> 0:01:04.520 mountain top monasteries. There are mountains that are believed to 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:06.560 be homes of the gods. There are mountains that are 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:10.080 places of worship, mountains that are places of sacrifice, mountains 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:13.280 that are believed to be forbidden or you know, otherwise 0:01:13.319 --> 0:01:16.960 magically you know, barred. Yeah, and they really are in 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:20.480 just about every culture. So what we wanted to do 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:23.520 in this pair of episodes for stuff to blow your 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:25.920 mind is to really get into the idea of the 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:29.960 sacred mountain. So this first episode is really going to 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:33.399 be more about, first of all, why do we have 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:37.240 these different feelings about mountains? Why do mountains invoke these 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:40.520 different ideas and feelings in the human mind. And then 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:44.720 we're gonna run through some notable examples of sacred mountains. 0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:47.680 I have to really drive home that this will not 0:01:47.760 --> 0:01:51.600 be an exhaustive mention of every sacred mountain tradition. I'm 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:54.520 sure we're gonna leave off some very good ones, uh, 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:57.880 some very notable cultural examples. We we just can't cover 0:01:57.960 --> 0:02:01.320 them all, but we'll try and cover uh enough of 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:03.440 them to give you a nice grounding. And then, of course, 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:07.120 if you have a favorite sacred mountains that you've visited 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:10.080 or just read about, uh, you can right into us 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:13.000 and perhaps we'll share those in the future. Listener a 0:02:13.080 --> 0:02:16.280 male episode. And then that second episode that we're going 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:18.600 to do about sacred mountains is going to get more 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:23.320 into the psychology and the neuroscience and how and to 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:29.520 what extent high altitude UH conditions could contribute to this 0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:33.800 interpretation of the sacred and the holy on mountains and 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:36.240 on the tops of mountains. That's right. And though we 0:02:36.280 --> 0:02:38.280 are going to look all over the world in various 0:02:38.280 --> 0:02:41.000 places today, I think one place I wanted to start 0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:45.079 with is the mountain you might be less familiar with 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:48.440 in Greek religion. Oh yeah, because you're probably instantly thinking, well, 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:52.359 Mount Olympus, that's where the gods are, That's where they're 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:57.880 plotting all of their nefarious ends. But what about Mount 0:02:58.080 --> 0:03:01.480 like Kon, home of holy Werewolf for the not so 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:07.280 the unholy werewolf, the sanctuary of Zeus, the birthplace of Zeus, 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:12.239 and the altar of blood sacrifice. Yeah, it invokes a 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:14.480 number of the different ideas we're gonna be discussing here. 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:16.079 So we wanted to read just a little bit from 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:20.720 Pausanias's a historian. He wrote description of Greece UH. And 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:23.720 this is from the second century CE. And this is 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:26.800 like section eight. This is another one of those old 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:31.160 texts you can find in full translated online that we're 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:33.200 just gonna read a couple of paragraphs from it okay. 0:03:33.400 --> 0:03:35.480 On the highest point of the mountain is a mound 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:39.240 of earth forming an altar of Zeus like Chius, and 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:42.760 from it most of the Peloponnesus can be seen. Before 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:46.320 the altar on the east stand two pillars on which 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:50.560 there were of old gilded eagles. On this altar they 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:54.160 sacrifice in secret to like He and Zeus, I was 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:57.880 reluctant to pry into the details of the sacrifice. Let 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:00.760 them be as they are, and we're from the beginning. 0:04:01.520 --> 0:04:03.320 On the east side of the mountain there is a 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:08.240 sanctuary of Apollo, surnamed Parhassian. They also give him the 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:12.040 name Pythian. They hold every year a festival in honor 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:14.640 of the god and sacrifice in the market place a 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:18.720 boar to Apollo helper, And after the sacrifice here they 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:22.159 at once carry the victim to the sanctuary of Parhassian 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:25.800 Apollo in procession to the music of the flute. Cutting 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:28.880 out the thigh bones, they burn them and also consume 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:31.440 the meat of the victim on the spot. So here 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:33.920 we get a description of like sacrifices of a boar. 0:04:34.160 --> 0:04:37.120 Though there have been rumors for a long time that 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:40.240 human sacrifice was something that happened, you know, that you 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:42.760 would kill humans and offer them up to like he 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:46.960 and Zeus on mount like Us, so we should at 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:49.599 least situate this. They mentioned that you could see the 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:52.600 whole Peloponnese, but mountain like Kon now is it is 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:55.520 a mountain in the region of Arcadia, which is long 0:04:55.600 --> 0:04:58.640 believed to be sort of the symbol or paragon of beautiful, 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:03.679 unspoiled wilderness. And that's down in the Peloponnese. And Zeus, 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:07.760 like Chaius, is essentially wolf Zeus is. Yeah, it's like 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:10.560 his his wolf power ranger form. Yeah, so all the 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:14.400 everything you expect from from Zeus, king of the gods, 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:17.760 except also with with lupine properties. And there are a 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:21.080 lot of stories about sort of the history of this 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:23.520 mountain and the name like mountain like Caon, and some 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:25.960 tellings is said to be the birthplace or the home 0:05:26.040 --> 0:05:29.359 of Zeus, but also it's named for king like Heon 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:33.440 of Arcadia, who was, of course in some myths, foolish 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:35.960 enough to mess with the gods of the Greek pantheon. 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:38.960 To mess with always a mistake. Yeah. So, according to 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:42.440 Ovid's telling in the Metamorphosis, so the King tried to 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:47.320 trick Zeus into eating human flesh, and Zeus retaliated by 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:50.159 turning him into a wolf, or turning him into a 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:52.880 were wolf. And I want to read this part of 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:55.919 the poem as told in Ovid's Metamorphosis, as translated by 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:58.880 Garth and Dryden. Okay, let's divide it, Robert, you do 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:02.520 this first section. Here, this dire experiment. He chose to 0:06:02.640 --> 0:06:07.040 prove if I were mortal or undoubted Jove. But first 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:10.760 he had resolved to taste my power not long before, 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:14.599 but in a luckless hour, some legates sent from the 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:18.920 Molassian state. We're on a peaceful errand come to treat 0:06:19.520 --> 0:06:22.960 of these. He murders one. He boils the flesh and 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:27.360 lays the mangled morsels in a dish. Some part he roasts, 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:31.040 then serves it up so dressed, and bids me welcome 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:34.839 to this humane feast. Okay, So the king captures some dudes, 0:06:34.960 --> 0:06:37.560 burns them, and then offers them up to Zeus like here, 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:42.480 try it, uh, presuming I think to to trick Zeus 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:46.080 into eating this human flesh. And Zeus continues, moved with 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:49.800 disdain the table I are turned and with the avenging 0:06:49.920 --> 0:06:53.919 flames the palace burned. The tyrant, in a fright for shelter, 0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:59.040 gains the neighboring fields and scours along the plains, howling. 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:03.160 He fled and fain. He would have spoke, but human voice, 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:07.480 his brutal tongue forsook about his lips. The gathered foam 0:07:07.680 --> 0:07:12.720 he churns and breathing slaughters still with rage. He burns, 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:17.040 but on the bleeding flock, his fury turns. His mantle, 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:20.720 now his hide with rugged hairs, cleaves to his back, 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:25.400 a famished face, he bears his arms, descend his shoulders, 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:29.000 slink away to multiply his legs for chase of prey. 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:33.560 He grows a wolf. His hoary nous remains, and the 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:38.160 same rage and other members reiins. His eyes still sparkle 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:42.160 in a narrower space, his jaws retained the grin and 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:45.960 violence of his face, and according to some, if I 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:48.200 remember correctly, this is this is kind of the birth 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:51.360 of the werewolf. Oh yeah, yeah, this is This is 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:53.960 a one off, if not the earliest accounts you'll find 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:57.480 of of of someone turning into a lupine form. I 0:07:57.480 --> 0:08:00.760 don't remember if we discussed this story the episode we 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:03.600 did about the first monster about like the idea where 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:08.200 what was the origin of beliefs in beings embodying both 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:11.520 human and animal forms mixed together. We might have mentioned this, 0:08:11.960 --> 0:08:14.600 but of course apart from this myth, which I don't 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:17.360 think this is a historical record in any case of 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:21.880 werewolf transformation. Uh. The Despite the story of King like 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:24.920 Kean and all this, the mountain like An was in 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:28.240 you know, without a doubt, a holy site in some 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:31.120 versions of Greek religion, since it was sort of the 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:34.320 home birthplace of Zeus, and it was also a place 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:38.160 where blood sacrifices and burnt offerings to Zeus were brought. 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:41.679 And it's long been known that animals were sacrificed and 0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:45.760 burned to Zeus here, but recently there's been some there 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:49.600 have been some chilling discoveries. Archaeologists at the Sanctuary of 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:53.600 Zeus have been excavating a giant ancient mound of ash 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:56.480 about a hundred feet or about thirty meters wide that 0:08:56.800 --> 0:09:00.160 was the site of these animal sacrifices, mostly sheep go 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:03.920 it's beginning around the sixteenth century BC, so going way back, 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:06.600 and in two sixteen it was announced that they had 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:09.720 found human remains here that they found the skeleton of 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:13.319 an adolescent male from what appears to be I think 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:16.880 it's not positive, but it really looks like this was 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:21.600 a human sacrifice from around the eleventh century b c um. 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:23.440 And of course this wouldn't be the only case where 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:27.400 we know of human sacrifice likely taking place up on 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:30.920 a mountain, like I think about the you know, going 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:35.400 to the to South America, the children of Yuyiko or Yuyayako, right, 0:09:35.679 --> 0:09:38.040 and in the late nineties at some point they discovered 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:41.400 three inca child mummies there that we're up on the 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:43.600 summit of the mountain. Is not known for sure what 0:09:43.760 --> 0:09:45.680 that is, but it appears to be a form of 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:49.000 human sacrifice that was taking showing the religious significance of 0:09:49.000 --> 0:09:52.439 the mountain there too. Interesting. So I think this is 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:55.320 a great example to start with here. Uh. It embodies 0:09:55.320 --> 0:09:59.280 a number of different things here pilgrimage. Uh, just that 0:09:59.400 --> 0:10:01.559 the view mentioning just how much you can see from 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:03.880 up there, and the idea too that this puts you 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:06.960 put the place to put you in closer contact with 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:10.120 the divine, with the gods. But now I'd like to 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:13.400 talk just a little bit about the importance of geography 0:10:13.480 --> 0:10:18.920 and and naturally occurring forms as metaphors. We've talked about 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:20.360 this with a get bit on the show before, but 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:24.960 you know, you can find root, branch, tree, river iconography 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:28.360 all over the place. I think back to our episode 0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:31.120 and the Trident as well, which, according to some theories, 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:33.920 was originally based on a fig leaf. You know it. 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:39.040 Ancient people turned to natural forms as a way of 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:43.440 thinking about the world and kind of externalizing thought. Uh 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:46.160 And and you see that in in in pretty in 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:49.440 every human tradition. So it should come as no surprise 0:10:49.520 --> 0:10:52.400 that mountains speak to us as well. After all, a 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:57.199 sacred mountain is just one part of an overall sacred geography. 0:10:57.240 --> 0:10:59.920 And I think that's important to note. Like ancient people, 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:02.080 they wouldn't have thought like, oh, yeah, this is just 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:04.200 land over here, and that's the lake, that's a river, 0:11:04.280 --> 0:11:06.719 and oh this mountain, that place is holy, that's where 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:10.680 the gods live. Uh. No, the oceans, the mountains, the 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:13.960 earth itself, the rivers, all of it comes into play 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:17.679 for when you're considering a sacred view of the world 0:11:17.800 --> 0:11:21.000 or of the universe. Yeah, you know, I kind of 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:25.560 think though that, um, we might be kind of unusual 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:29.319 as far as like people in history go. Given that 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:31.880 most of you know most of us, and the people 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:34.400 listening to the show, probably most of their exposure to 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:39.680 religion is like to monotheisms like Christianity, Judaism and Islam, 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:42.360 which I would say, as far as religions go, have 0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:48.400 unusually low investments in geography and and the land, because 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:51.559 if you go to ancient pagan religions or indigenous religions 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:55.000 of of of Europe and Africa and Asia and in 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:59.520 the America's, you find all kinds of like stories about 0:11:59.559 --> 0:12:04.200 how the land itself was created, and like like off 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:07.360 the very common stories that the land and the features 0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:11.360 of the land were features of monsters that were slain 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:13.760 by or the features of a body of a god 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:17.200 that died long ago, or they have particular connections to 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:21.320 holy sites that are geographically unique and significant for being unique. 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:25.760 I mean, I guess Christianity, Islam, and Judaism have geographical 0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:28.640 locations that are holy, but that's mainly for like what 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:31.920 is believed to be their historical role, right events that 0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:36.160 took place there uh structures that either were there, are 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:39.360 or are still there in some form or another, And 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:41.560 that's certainly a part of it as well discuss, but 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:44.920 there are various other ways to to look at at 0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:48.559 sacred mountains and sacred geography and why those places are 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:52.560 considered sacred. So just I think one important thing to 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:54.480 just keep in mind is something that most of us 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:56.880 can relate to, and that is just the idea of 0:12:56.880 --> 0:13:00.280 a mountain or an impressive photo of one will likely 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:06.360 summon feelings of grandeur or intimidation, adventure, peace effort, seclusion, 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:11.040 wonder or indeed connection to the heavens. Um. I mean 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:13.920 this is why you see, uh, you know, posters and 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:17.120 images and paintings of mountains. I mean they are they're 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:19.320 beautiful about how and we travel to the mountains and 0:13:19.320 --> 0:13:22.840 then we stand, uh, either atop the mountain or certainly 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:25.559 at a nice vista, and we we take it all 0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:29.320 in and it it summons feelings, Its summons emotions. It 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:32.200 takes us outside of ourselves. EO. Wilson talks about this 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:35.760 a little bit when he's discussing the biophilia hypothesis, and 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:38.240 I think this is in the context of him generally 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:42.840 talking about evolutionary explanations for our aesthetic preferences, like why 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:46.600 is it so often that the pictures we find beautiful 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:50.120 include vistas from a high point of view, you know, 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:53.000 being able to look down over a landscape, and you 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:56.280 offer some possible evolutionary explanations for that. You know, maybe 0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:59.200 this is like a more defendable point where you can 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:02.480 see things coming towards you. But yeah, it's hard to 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:04.840 deny that. When I see a mountain. I don't know 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:06.960 if everybody feels this way as much as I do. 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:09.880 When I see a mountain, I want to go up it. 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:12.679 I've never done mountain climbing. I've done hiking and stuff, 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:14.640 but I do want to go up to the top 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:17.320 of the highest point and look down well see. And 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:19.000 I think you and I are different in this regard. 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:22.800 Uh You've talked before on the show about how you 0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:24.520 have no problem like walking up to the edge of 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:27.240 the cliff. I'm a little more reluctant to do that. 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:31.120 But still, if I see like a crazy you know, 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:34.720 cliff or peak, or or images of people mountain climbing, 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:38.200 I do put myself imagine myself up there and often 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:42.240 terrify myself with the with the prospect. Uh So I 0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:46.200 feel like that kind of like mental transportation is inevitable. 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:49.440 But a couple of other things about just how we 0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:54.480 think about mountains a common trope in various mythologies, and 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:56.560 we'll touch on some specific examples here in a bit. 0:14:56.880 --> 0:14:59.440 Are that the mountain, or at least the mountain peak 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:03.480 on some level, connects Earth to the sky. So it 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:06.240 might be like a sky pillar situation where the mountain 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:09.520 is holding up the cosmos, holding up the heavens, holding 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:12.320 up the sky, or it is in some way an 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:16.440 umbilical or a ladder and uh. Or that the mountain 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:19.120 itself serves as a you know, an axis Monday, the 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:23.320 central tent pole of a sacred cosmos, a stairway to heaven, 0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:28.160 if you will. Well, that's really interesting because especially it 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:31.880 pairs with older ways of thinking about the sky. You know, 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:34.960 it's not all that uncommon for ancient peoples to have 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:37.920 conceived of the sky as a place with solid ground 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:40.560 that you could walk around in, you know, like a firmament. 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:43.600 There's a dome over the earth and uh. And so 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:46.440 you might wonder, well, what does something hold up the dome. 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:48.840 If there's solid ground up there that the gods can 0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:51.880 walk around in, there must be something holding it up. 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:54.080 And so you can imagine, well, maybe a mountain holds 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:56.480 it up. That's the obvious answer. In fact. Yeah, so 0:15:56.960 --> 0:15:59.800 you can see where this this complex weave emerges of 0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:03.200 an attempt to understand what is what your visit, what 0:16:03.400 --> 0:16:06.400 you're actually observing, what is the objective reality? And then 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:10.000 also these mythic ideas of like what does about about 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:14.280 structure and uh and and center and the importance of 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:17.720 place and identity. There's also from a practical since the 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:20.040 fact that to stand atop a great height is to 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:22.920 gain a crucial vantage point. In some cases that could 0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:27.080 be purely strategic. Just this is the E. O. Wilson thing. Yeah, 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:29.800 you can see the movements of of herd animals, you 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:33.120 can see the movements of enemy troops, etcetera. But I 0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:35.760 also wonder if it could be something a little more existential. 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:40.320 I wonder if if such heights could be considered possibly 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:45.000 uh capable of invoking something like the overview effect that 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:49.280 proposed a state of mind or you know, a state 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:53.880 of euphoric interconnectedness that ensues when one sees the planet 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:57.160 Earth from outer space. It's not quite the same, certainly, 0:16:57.160 --> 0:16:59.840 but I'm wondering if perhaps that affects scales down to 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:02.600 some extent yeah, I can absolutely see that. So some 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:06.119 astronauts report they look out the window of the International 0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:09.119 Space Station or of their you know, their vehicle, and 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:12.119 they see the Earth from space, and suddenly it just 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:16.359 comes into sharp focus that that are, you know, petty 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:19.760 squabbles are exactly that they're petty. You know that they 0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:22.920 vanish in the face of the fact that we're all 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:26.040 trapped on this ball together, and and it makes human 0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:29.440 concerns look small and makes people feel a strong sense 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:32.399 of sort of the common interest of all humanity and 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:35.120 the connectedness of all of our concerns, because the fate 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:36.680 of the Earth is the fate of all of us. 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:39.960 And yeah, I can absolutely see that happening. I mean, so, 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:43.280 imagine you normally you live in a small village or 0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:45.479 a city where you are. You know, you you've got 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:48.119 your day to day concerns, you're angry with your neighbor, 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:51.040 or you've got your politics that you're doing, if you're 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:53.639 like a priest or something, and then you go up 0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:56.000 on a mountain and then you look down at the 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:57.920 place where you come from the village or the city 0:17:58.000 --> 0:18:01.200 or the farms, and suddenly everything looks any This basic 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:05.520 shift in visual and optical perspective could very well trigger 0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:07.560 a kind of the same kind of mental shift that 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:11.199 people experience when they go into space. Yeah. Absolutely, I was. 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:13.280 I was doing a little reading about about some of 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:16.160 these ideas, and it ran across an excellent little paper 0:18:16.200 --> 0:18:21.280 by Edwin Burne Bomb titled in Sacred Mountains Themes and Teachings, 0:18:21.640 --> 0:18:24.480 And this is from Mountain Research and Development twenty six 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:26.880 And the author does a great job of just which 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:29.280 is laying out some basics. For instance, lays out three 0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:34.120 basic ways that mountains are considered sacred uh. And and 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:36.040 we can as I lay these out, you can certainly 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:38.359 think two examples we've discussed already, and I think these 0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:41.960 will also be useful in considering examples we discussed in 0:18:42.000 --> 0:18:45.480 the rest of the podcast. So burn Bomb says, first, 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:49.760 specific peaks are singled out as places of sanctity. Uh. 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:54.000 They're supported by myths and practices such as pilgrimages, meditation, 0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:58.720 and even sacrifice. Number two, they may contain sacred sites 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:01.560 or objects like temple or shrines, or even something more 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:05.560 natural like a spring. And then number three, the natural 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:10.040 setting itself awakens a sense of wonder and awe. All 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:12.960 three of these tend to work together, burn Bomb says 0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:16.960 on an individual's experience with the sacredness of a mountain. Furthermore, 0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:21.560 Burned Bomb defined ten themes frequently seen in sacred mountains. 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:29.080 So they are roughly height, center, power, God or God. 0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:31.000 Either the mountains of God itself where it is the 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:33.680 home of God's The mountain is a place of worship. 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:36.960 The mountain is a paradise or a garden. Um is 0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:39.800 a place where the ancestors of the dead may reside, 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:44.560 a source of cultural identity, a source of healing, or 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:47.399 or just a source of water, which makes sense because 0:19:47.400 --> 0:19:51.960 I mean goes downhill exactly, and also as a place 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:56.720 of renewal. So these are again ten broad themes that 0:19:56.760 --> 0:20:01.800 burn Bomb identifies in the identity and characterization of sacred mountains. 0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:04.320 All right, well, we can look for these and examples 0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:06.360 of mountains that we talk about. So maybe I'll offer 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:08.399 up one example of a mountain to think about, and 0:20:08.400 --> 0:20:10.480 then maybe after that take a break and then look 0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:13.040 at some others. Okay, but this first one is one 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:16.240 I mentioned in the episode where we talked about pressure, 0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:19.399 because I think it's a commonly cited example of a 0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:23.000 very important holy mountain that's holy in multiple religions, not 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:26.000 just one. Uh. And this would be the peak it's 0:20:26.119 --> 0:20:27.960 it's a peak in the Himalaya as known as Mount 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:31.920 Kailash or Mount Kailasa uh. And so this is a 0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:35.760 holy mountain in multiple religions. In Hinduism, this mountain is 0:20:35.760 --> 0:20:38.840 believed to be the abode of Lord Shiva, the destroyer 0:20:38.920 --> 0:20:42.400 of evil, and of his wife Parvadi, who together sit 0:20:42.600 --> 0:20:46.159 in meditation at the summit of the mountain. And so 0:20:46.240 --> 0:20:49.480 the site of Mount Kailash is a destination of pilgrimage 0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:53.399 for many Hindus who climb fifteen thousand feet or about 0:20:53.400 --> 0:20:56.720 four point six kilometers up this ascent path to the 0:20:56.760 --> 0:21:00.159 base of the mountain, but do not climb it's some it. 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:04.360 In fact, climbing the sacred summit is forbidden, and though 0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:06.320 while we can't know for sure, it's often said that 0:21:06.359 --> 0:21:09.600 the summit has never been climbed by a human uh. 0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:13.000 It's instead, it's believed virtuous for pilgrims to walk in 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:15.879 a circle around the base of the mountain, but not 0:21:16.040 --> 0:21:18.560 go up to the summit. And this, of course is 0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:20.640 not just a holy side for Hindus. As I was saying, 0:21:20.640 --> 0:21:24.160 but it's also holy for Buddhists, for Jaynes and for 0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:28.240 people of the indigenous religion of Tibet known as Bone Yes, 0:21:28.320 --> 0:21:31.800 a very ancient animist religion. Yeah. Now, if you look 0:21:31.800 --> 0:21:35.240 at what a picture of Mount Kailosh looks like from below, 0:21:36.200 --> 0:21:39.239 I mean I would say, obviously I already know this 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:41.400 about it when I've seen pictures of it. But it's 0:21:41.440 --> 0:21:45.760 not hard to see how a person looking up at 0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:49.520 this peak would begin to think that something powerful and 0:21:49.720 --> 0:21:53.760 holy and forbidden resided there. It does not look welcoming 0:21:53.800 --> 0:21:56.520 to assent like it. It doesn't look easy to climb, 0:21:57.240 --> 0:21:59.280 and I think there's something powerful about that to to 0:21:59.359 --> 0:22:03.280 like see a ace and think, especially today's day and age, 0:22:03.320 --> 0:22:06.080 to think, I wonder if people have ever been on 0:22:06.119 --> 0:22:08.680 that spot, as a person ever stood there, and if 0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:12.040 the answer is even possibly no, there is something kind 0:22:12.040 --> 0:22:14.680 of sacred about that. Like we've we've pretty much screwed 0:22:14.720 --> 0:22:18.640 everything else up, but that one peak is is pristine. 0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:24.000 You will not find a slim gym wrapper there. Yeah, 0:22:24.040 --> 0:22:26.359 and that does seem important, right. I Mean part of 0:22:26.400 --> 0:22:30.640 the issue is anytime there's a mountain that people say 0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:33.280 has not been climbed, obviously people are gonna want to 0:22:33.280 --> 0:22:35.520 climb it. So I've been reading you know, there's political 0:22:35.560 --> 0:22:38.880 controversy over this. It's like I think there was one 0:22:38.960 --> 0:22:43.080