Speaker 1: And we're back with another episode of Cutting the Distance podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm the host Dirk Durham today and I'm in the
Speaker 1: beautiful blue mountains of Oregon, Northeastern Oregon. If you will,
Speaker 1: I've got my buddy Derek Miller, who is an owner
Speaker 1: operator of an outfitting business here in Oregon in some
Speaker 1: of the big three units ELK units in Oregon, which, uh,
Speaker 1: which are you? How many units do you guide in?
Speaker 2: Here? I'm permitted to operate in all of the big
Speaker 2: three that I primarily operate in Mount Emily and Wanaha.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, nice, nice. We just wrapped up like a
Speaker 1: what's a lifetime type of ELK hunt for me here
Speaker 1: in Oregon here in one of the those big three units.
Speaker 1: I don't know if do we want to tell people
Speaker 1: where it's at or they'll probably figure it out, but
Speaker 1: I always had to leave a little mystery.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't matter to me. The availability of tags
Speaker 2: is so small that it doesn't really matter.
Speaker 1: But right right, well, I had the opportunity to come
Speaker 1: hunt with Derek through the Outfitter Tag program. So an outfitter,
Speaker 1: the outfitters apply for an opportunity to draw a tag
Speaker 1: one tag in these units tell us how that works.
Speaker 2: So licensed outfitters in Oregon can apply for non resident
Speaker 2: outfitter tags in the Big Three and if you're if
Speaker 2: you're issued one of those tags, if you're lucky enough
Speaker 2: to draw it, then they'll if you for service, will
Speaker 2: issue you a operating permit for that hunt. I happen
Speaker 2: to have a priority permit on part of that National
Speaker 2: forest and a temporary permit year to year permit on
Speaker 2: the rest of it.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's coo. And then I was able to
Speaker 1: have the opportunity to buy that tag. It's it's crazy,
Speaker 1: you know, some people kind of poo poo on that idea,
Speaker 1: which I kind of get. You know, it's there's a
Speaker 1: lot of folks who will spend twenty plus years applying
Speaker 1: as a resident in this state trying to draw a tag,
Speaker 1: and and it's probably a little disheartening for them when
Speaker 1: some jerk like me comes along and buys a tag.
Speaker 1: But you know this is you know, the state, the
Speaker 1: state does this, They allow it. Somebody's gonna buy the tag,
Speaker 1: and and by gully, this time, it's just a good
Speaker 1: old kid from we Ipe that I would have never
Speaker 1: thought in a million years I'd ever been able to
Speaker 1: hunt this unit, So I'm super thankful and fortunate to
Speaker 1: come here. But man, I was really I've been really
Speaker 1: looking forward to this this hunt all summer. You've sent
Speaker 1: me pictures of some big bulls you've been scouting, and
Speaker 1: then in September hit and you had some cool videos
Speaker 1: on from from trail camps of bulls on wallows, bugling
Speaker 1: and stuff, and that's really cool. I'm just I'm just wondering,
Speaker 1: what is your normal what's your normal client base look like?
Speaker 1: Is that? You know? I feel like some people get
Speaker 1: this idea that like, oh, somebody went with an outfitter there,
Speaker 1: they must not be a good hunter, or oh they
Speaker 1: should have just did that theirself, or oh outfitted hunt
Speaker 1: not for me. I don't want to even hear about it, right,
Speaker 1: but I feel like there's some weird misconceptions about who
Speaker 1: actually will book a hunt with an outfitter.
Speaker 2: Right in the Big Three, it's kind of a unique
Speaker 2: situation because it takes so long to draw, and the
Speaker 2: average age of a hunter that draws the Big Three
Speaker 2: because it takes twenty plus years to draw, is probably
Speaker 2: fifty and above. So the age demographic is probably fifty
Speaker 2: to seventy on average. Those are the guys that are
Speaker 2: typically booking hunts. The guy that's, you know, twenty to thirty,
Speaker 2: he's still he still thinks he can do it on
Speaker 2: his own, which he can. There's no reason that he
Speaker 2: can't do it alone. But we all know as we
Speaker 2: get older, we have physical limitations and time limitations. So
Speaker 2: the average guy is going to be fifty to seventies,
Speaker 2: probably either retired or a business owner. He has the
Speaker 2: disposable income to hire an outfitter. He doesn't have a
Speaker 2: lot of excess time to come and scout like you
Speaker 2: would want to for a twenty five year tag to
Speaker 2: do that tag justice and do your due diligence to
Speaker 2: find yourself a bull. So he's probably the average. Most
Speaker 2: all of them are hunters of one type or another,
Speaker 2: all different skill levels. There's some really experienced hunters and
Speaker 2: there's some that have never killed a bull. The vast,
Speaker 2: vast majority of my clients have probably never killed a
Speaker 2: mature bowl. They may have spy hunted or cow hunter
Speaker 2: or whatever, but they've never killed a mature bowl anyway.
Speaker 2: It's not that they're new hunters, it's just that in Oregon,
Speaker 2: our opportunities are somewhat limited to hunt big bulls. We
Speaker 2: don't have a ton of units that have them, and
Speaker 2: the ones that do have them, it takes a bit
Speaker 2: to draw a tag, so the average hunter just wants
Speaker 2: to maximize what he's got. You know, it took him
Speaker 2: twenty five years to get the tag, and he doesn't
Speaker 2: want to waste it, so he hires a guide. And
Speaker 2: the benefits of the guide, there's a lot of them.
Speaker 2: But the guide knows the country better than you'll ever
Speaker 2: know it, even though you may have friends that have
Speaker 2: hunted it with friends or whatever. The guides are hunting
Speaker 2: that every single year, two months out of the year
Speaker 2: between archery season and rifle season, so they're just they're
Speaker 2: familiar with the unit in waste that most people aren't.
Speaker 2: It Also, you know, maybe they don't have the equipment.
Speaker 2: It's late season, we can end up with a lot
Speaker 2: of snow. Transportation can be an issue. So sometimes it's
Speaker 2: equipment they don't have. Sometimes it's the time they don't
Speaker 2: have the scout. Sometimes it's maybe the knowledge. They don't
Speaker 2: feel like they have enough knowledge to kill a ball
Speaker 2: that they've been waiting twenty years to kill, so there's
Speaker 2: a lot of reasons. I've found. Very rarely it's because
Speaker 2: the person is inept. It's just they've weighed the they've
Speaker 2: weighed the odds, and they think that their odds are
Speaker 2: stacked better with help.
Speaker 1: Absolutely well. One thing I've kind of noticed over the
Speaker 1: years is when some people draw really hard to get tag,
Speaker 1: whether it's Oregon or Idaho or Utah or whatever, they
Speaker 1: may have a network of friends that like are are like, hey,
Speaker 1: I want to go along and help. But not everybody
Speaker 1: has a network of friends that want to or can
Speaker 1: you know, some of us are friends just they work,
Speaker 1: you know, they can't get.
Speaker 2: Out, And a lot of times you have when you
Speaker 2: draw the tag, you have a whole bunch of people
Speaker 2: that want to help, but as the time approaches, they
Speaker 2: can't get time off, or life happens like it does
Speaker 2: for all of us, and some of those guys find
Speaker 2: out that they're going to be on their own, and
Speaker 2: if or maybe they have one or two friends. But
Speaker 2: if you're fifty to seventy, your friends are mostly fifty
Speaker 2: to seventy, and so they may not be quite the
Speaker 2: help you need.
Speaker 1: Right so right, yeah, and there, you know, it's nothing
Speaker 1: beats boots on the ground, somebody that's been in the
Speaker 1: unit a lot and familiar with the area and the
Speaker 1: areas that help frequent and you know, it's it sure
Speaker 1: saves a lot of leg work. Definitely.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's nice that you can on day one because
Speaker 2: it takes over twenty years to draw the tag. Most
Speaker 2: people haven't scouted the unit and they think they're going
Speaker 2: to scout the unit in the months leading up, but
Speaker 2: they don't. Either they don't because of time constraints, or
Speaker 2: even when they do. Where the elk are in June
Speaker 2: and July and August and September, they probably aren't going
Speaker 2: to be in November. So it's kind of you're scouting
Speaker 2: country but not really scouting elk. And so it's also
Speaker 2: nice that on day one you hit the ground running.
Speaker 2: We've all gone places where we're not familiar with, really
Speaker 2: a new place. We're kind of going in blind, maybe
Speaker 2: with some scouting, but how many days do you spend
Speaker 2: just kind of get the feel of the country, And
Speaker 2: this way you don't have to. Your guy's already been there.
Speaker 2: He's probably been there. Hopefully he's been there in the
Speaker 2: days right prior to your hunt, so he already has
Speaker 2: Elk spotted. You know, we knew exactly where we were
Speaker 2: going this morning. We knew exactly where we were going.
Speaker 2: We had videos of Elk that we wanted to kill
Speaker 2: from less than twenty four hours ago. So I think
Speaker 2: there's some real benefits to And it's not that a
Speaker 2: guy can't do that. I'm not saying that they can't
Speaker 2: do it on their own. They can, but it's sometimes
Speaker 2: and for certain people, I think it's just a better
Speaker 2: option if you have the ability to do it.
Speaker 1: Right right or when it comes to like get an
Speaker 1: animal out, you know, right, let's say once you're successful,
Speaker 1: I mean, and Elk is a big animal and his
Speaker 1: canyons are pretty steep, right and rugged here and a
Speaker 1: lot of folks, you know, it's it's going to be
Speaker 1: a big burden to get it out, and you know,
Speaker 1: especially if you're diy do it yourself, and you may
Speaker 1: not have that again, that safety rope or network of friends,
Speaker 1: or maybe all your friends are back home, you know,
Speaker 1: eight hours from here, and they just can't run over
Speaker 1: to help you pack out an Elk man. It's sure
Speaker 1: is nice to you know, have yeah.
Speaker 2: A group of guys right there that can just throw
Speaker 2: it on their back and get out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, make it a one trip pack out and it's done.
Speaker 1: And man, it's it's fun. Yeah, it's really fun.
Speaker 2: It makes it a lot more enjoyable. There's something to
Speaker 2: be said for the suffering of packing a bull out
Speaker 2: over several days by yourself, but there's also something to
Speaker 2: be said for getting it done and sitting around camp
Speaker 2: just visiting for a few hours afterwards too. Oh yeah, definitely,
Speaker 2: it's both ways are great.
Speaker 1: So my expectations when I came on this hunt, I've
Speaker 1: always tempered my expectations for all hunting because I've been
Speaker 1: hunting for thirty five years, you know, do it yourself
Speaker 1: type hunting, so I understand what hunting is about. You know,
Speaker 1: of course you're going to set your sights on the
Speaker 1: big animal you can possibly find, and we would all
Speaker 1: like to go home with that three fifty or three
Speaker 1: eighty or whatever number type of bowl or just maybe
Speaker 1: just I want a big, heavy six point or whatever.
Speaker 1: So coming into this hunt, I always try to like
Speaker 1: temper my expectations. I didn't have a number set on
Speaker 1: a bowl. I just I wanted to shoot a big,
Speaker 1: beautiful bowl. I didn't care if it was a perfect six.
Speaker 1: I didn't care if it was a lopsided seven by eight.
Speaker 1: I like, you know, with weird points. I didn't really care.
Speaker 1: I just wanted a cool opportunity, a cool bowl that
Speaker 1: I that I liked when I seen it. And sometimes
Speaker 1: you find those on the first day. Sometimes a guy
Speaker 1: don't find those at all in a season, or maybe
Speaker 1: you find them on the last day. But today, man, wait,
Speaker 1: the elk gods smiled on us, like they put one
Speaker 1: right in front of us. We We've done a little
Speaker 1: bit of due diligence the night before and spotted a
Speaker 1: really nice seven by eight, And I'm like, oh, man,
Speaker 1: I want that thing. And but I know hunting, and
Speaker 1: I just know how it works to where just because
Speaker 1: you see one the night before and they're and and
Speaker 1: and you guys have been watching them for a for
Speaker 1: a day or two, and it's like, it doesn't mean
Speaker 1: it's a gimme tomorrow morning.
Speaker 2: That elker they have seen killing two different things entirely.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yep. And then you have you have some other
Speaker 1: things in the equation. We're not out here just this
Speaker 1: is not like an exclusive private land place. You know,
Speaker 1: there are a few uh mature bull tags, you know,
Speaker 1: branch bull tags. But there's a lot of spike hunters
Speaker 1: out hunting, so you know, it's public land, so we're
Speaker 1: gonna out We're to be out here competing with those guys.
Speaker 1: And you know, we always hope and that everyone's gonna
Speaker 1: be respectful because we're going to be respectful. But sometimes
Speaker 1: you just ever know what could happen till it could
Speaker 1: you know, we could have the whole hillside to ourself,
Speaker 1: we could be sharing it with twenty other people, right,
Speaker 1: So I just kind of tempered my expectations, like I
Speaker 1: just want to have a really fun hunt. I've never
Speaker 1: hunted here for myself before. I got to hunt this
Speaker 1: area with Jason Phelps here in twenty twenty one and
Speaker 1: enjoyed it, and I thought it was a really cool experience.
Speaker 1: And I just thought, you know, I just want to
Speaker 1: have a good time and see lots of elk and
Speaker 1: see lots of bowls, and maybe I'll get fortunate enough
Speaker 1: to get a nice one that I want to shoot
Speaker 1: within range.
Speaker 2: Right, And I think I think people should temper their expectation.
Speaker 2: We all, I had wind Aha in twenty eighteen, and
Speaker 2: of course I had high expectations. But as you go
Speaker 2: into the hunt, you when you're thinking about it, you're
Speaker 2: only thinking about the end result. I'm going to kill
Speaker 2: a three fifty bowl or three sixty year or whatever
Speaker 2: your number is. But you don't realize. And we talked
Speaker 2: about it last when we saw that seven by eight bowl,
Speaker 2: and we're like, we pretty much had that thing already
Speaker 2: on our backs at that point. We were like, this
Speaker 2: is going to happen on the wall, right, Yeah, But
Speaker 2: then you start to realize and then, like I think
Speaker 2: I said, anything can happen, we start to get these
Speaker 2: wild card things that come up, and like last night,
Speaker 2: we're watching that bull and all of a sudden, there's
Speaker 2: other people that hadn't seen the bull but just kind
Speaker 2: of showed up randomly looking like they're doing the same
Speaker 2: that we were when we found the bull. And so
Speaker 2: now you've got other DIY hunters with branch boll tags
Speaker 2: that are watching the same bull. And like you said,
Speaker 2: there was sometimes people are respectful, sometimes they're not. Uh.
Speaker 2: We had spike hunters rolling on us this morning, like
Speaker 2: walk right up next to us while we're glassing for
Speaker 2: the bull. That was a wild card. We had wind,
Speaker 2: We had snow, we had, fog, we had There's all
Speaker 2: these wild cards that come in that you don't really
Speaker 2: think about, and those are the ones that kind of
Speaker 2: beat you down mentally to where a guy will either
Speaker 2: settle for something way less than they wanted or or quit.
Speaker 2: There's the success rate is high in these units, but
Speaker 2: it's not one hundred percent, even though there's a lot
Speaker 2: of ilk. And I think really my favorite clients are
Speaker 2: the ones that say, well, I've never killed a big bull,
Speaker 2: I've never killed a bull, or I've killed a bowl
Speaker 2: three hundred inch bul and so they just want that
Speaker 2: to be the best bowl of their life. And it's
Speaker 2: not that I don't think they can do better than
Speaker 2: that goal, but that's a realistic goal and you'll never
Speaker 2: feel shorted if you can achieve that goal. Or maybe
Speaker 2: they just want to kill a mature bull. That bull
Speaker 2: you killed was a mature bull, beautiful bull. It wasn't
Speaker 2: a seven by eight, no, but it's a beautiful bull.
Speaker 2: There's nothing wrong with that bull, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: So I think it is important to temper your expectations
Speaker 2: with reality. And if you talk to people that hunt
Speaker 2: the unit a lot frequently, guides or other people. You'll
Speaker 2: realize that there's not three eighty bulls around every tree.
Speaker 2: You're not going to to see three fifty bowls every
Speaker 2: day or even every week, right and so, and weather
Speaker 2: is huge too. You know, the first week we generally
Speaker 2: have pretty good weather, and in the area that we're hunting,
Speaker 2: the first week there's no snow, and the elk are
Speaker 2: still here. But by next week, if we've got a
Speaker 2: foot of snow or six eight inches of snow, these
Speaker 2: elk are gone. And so sometimes you shoot the elk
Speaker 2: that's in front of you if you like the bowl,
Speaker 2: instead of waiting and trying to hold out and getting greedy.
Speaker 2: And then you know, later in the week it's snows
Speaker 2: and there's nothing, and so you've kind of shot yourself
Speaker 2: in the foot over some pride, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And this is a short hunt. This is
Speaker 1: a five day hunt. You know, it's not like we
Speaker 1: have two weeks to enjoy these mountains and turn over
Speaker 1: every rock and just be choosy and super choosy. So
Speaker 1: I thought, you know, with everything considered, a lot of
Speaker 1: hunters around with weather coming.
Speaker 2: In, it's snowing right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you guys may hear the wind, and we got
Speaker 1: the generator going, and it's snowing outside now, like it
Speaker 1: could snow a couple of inches tonight. It could snow afoot,
Speaker 1: it could.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you just don't know.
Speaker 1: We don't know what that's going to be, but we
Speaker 1: do know it's going to affect the elk one way
Speaker 1: or another, and probably not in our favor. And a
Speaker 1: lot of times, well I was just glad, like where
Speaker 1: we packed packed this bull out if I can't imagine
Speaker 1: if that had been snow on the ground that we'd
Speaker 1: have had it had been dangerous, like it was switch dangerous.
Speaker 2: And I carry I carry a couple pair of crampons
Speaker 2: that I can give guys that are like one inch crampons,
Speaker 2: regular mountaineering crampons, and those help immensely on that really slick,
Speaker 2: frozen ground. But luckily we didn't need it.
Speaker 1: But yeah, thank goodness. But anyway, I was able to
Speaker 1: make a good shot. You know, we had some pretty
Speaker 1: gusty winds this morning, and then right it when the
Speaker 1: shot was when I was able to take that shot,
Speaker 1: the wind kind of switched to be kind of blowing
Speaker 1: right in her face, so you know, wasn't left or
Speaker 1: right and made a good shot and then the I
Speaker 1: hit him pretty good, but I ended up having to
Speaker 1: make a follow up shot, which made a okay shot
Speaker 1: when when I took the follow up shot it was
Speaker 1: really windy then. So you guys will be able to
Speaker 1: see all this whole. I shouldn't even I shouldn't even
Speaker 1: spoil it because you'll be able to see the video
Speaker 1: where you have the video come out and we'll let
Speaker 1: you know when it's out. But you'll be able to
Speaker 1: And if you want to go, check out my Instagram,
Speaker 1: it's the Bugler and I'll collaborate with Philips game calls
Speaker 1: and you'll be able to see the bull on there
Speaker 1: the picture of it. But he was a beautiful six point.
Speaker 1: He was every like I said, everybody comes here with
Speaker 1: stars in her eyes, including me. It's like he never
Speaker 1: know you might get a three eighty bowl.
Speaker 2: But that's the attraction to the Big Three.
Speaker 1: It is.
Speaker 2: It is the wild like you never know, you never
Speaker 2: know what might walk out. You just don't know what's
Speaker 2: going to walk out. We didn't expect that seven by
Speaker 2: eight to be what he was when he walked out
Speaker 2: last night. Either. We had seen him in the timber
Speaker 2: the day before that, couldn't really see his whole frame
Speaker 2: and everything he had, but he was a really cool,
Speaker 2: unique bowl that anybody would have shot. Yeah in that unit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the bowl I squeezed the trigger on. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm so happy with it. I'm very happy. He's a
Speaker 1: beautiful bull. If I was to draw a picture of
Speaker 1: a bowl in my mind before it came, I would
Speaker 1: probably draw a picture the shape of antlers like that.
Speaker 1: It's just he's pretty, he's well proportioned. He's symmetrical, yeah,
Speaker 1: which I was kind of laughing last night. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I I typically, if you look at my horn pile,
Speaker 1: I've got some asymmetrical stuff. It's like not like non typical.
Speaker 1: It's just like one side's really good, one side's not
Speaker 1: so good, or one side's a little different. And I
Speaker 1: thought for sure it was like, oh yeah, I'll probably
Speaker 1: get that seven by eight, But no, I got a
Speaker 1: beautiful symmetrical six by six, which was surprising to me.
Speaker 1: So really yeah, so that was really fun. Well, listen,
Speaker 1: we're gonna shift gears here. We're gonna do the old
Speaker 1: Pendleton Whiskey question and answer segment. And first question, Now,
Speaker 1: this might be all sensitive and I and I think
Speaker 1: a lot of people are thinking it, but not a
Speaker 1: lot of people are saying it. But why are the
Speaker 1: costs of guided and outfitted hunts so expensive?
Speaker 2: You know, there's a wide there's a wide variety of
Speaker 2: costs for outfitted hunts. Bigger, more established outfitters charge a
Speaker 2: lot more. They've got a history of maybe killing big bulls.
Speaker 2: If your goal was to come in here and kill
Speaker 2: you know, one of the top five bulls in the
Speaker 2: unit that people know about, you're going to pay for
Speaker 2: that opportunity. Yeah, and so those are some things, but
Speaker 2: there's it's just like any business, there's costs. Every guy
Speaker 2: that we have helping, whether he's glassing, guiding, cooking, whatever
Speaker 2: he's doing, that guy's getting paid every day. And I
Speaker 2: pay my guys for the entire week, whether we hunt
Speaker 2: one day or whether we hunt a week. And so
Speaker 2: that's an expense. Our permitting cost, money for service wants, there,
Speaker 2: share insurance, you know, fuel for the rig, the side
Speaker 2: by side, someone's got to pay for the side by side,
Speaker 2: and you know, hey for the horses all year, even
Speaker 2: though we use them for a few months out of
Speaker 2: the year. So it it just is it seems like
Speaker 2: a lot, and it is a lot. But you know,
Speaker 2: if you if you break it down, it's it's not
Speaker 2: you can you can justify every expense. It's just unfortunate.
Speaker 2: It feels even as an outfitter, which is part of
Speaker 2: why I started outfitting myself, because I was working for
Speaker 2: other outfitters that were charging whatever they were charging. I'm
Speaker 2: not going to say they were too much, but in
Speaker 2: my mind, I felt like people were being priced out
Speaker 2: of an outfitted hunt. And I kind of like the
Speaker 2: idea of just being a regular, like every man's outfitter,
Speaker 2: and so if I can keep my prices lower. It's
Speaker 2: not a lot of people say raise your price, you
Speaker 2: need raise your price. But I just feel like I'm
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm not serving the clientele that I
Speaker 2: want to serve. I want to serve the guy that
Speaker 2: maybe I had to save five years to go on
Speaker 2: a hunt, you know, or but they're expenses. It's just
Speaker 2: all expensive. Oh yeah, equipment, you know, it's campus four
Speaker 2: thousand dollars and it's just everything, oh yeah, food, the tents,
Speaker 2: you know, how much? How many hundreds of dollars did
Speaker 2: we spend? Like this hunt was planned for a week.
Speaker 2: We have food for a week for six people, and
Speaker 2: we hunted one day. Yeah, so it's just expenses, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's not money, get you just you don't
Speaker 1: get that very store.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't get it back.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, that's a that's a great, great answer,
Speaker 1: which I think. You know, sometimes it's easy to like
Speaker 1: sit here and pick pick things apart, like or people like,
Speaker 1: oh it must be nice, but like people prioritize in
Speaker 1: their life what's important to them. Right, So one guy
Speaker 1: might say, oh, it must be nice, but he drives
Speaker 1: an eighty thousand dollars truck, right, And I drive a
Speaker 1: truck that's been paid off since twenty twelve, right, and
Speaker 1: it's not real pretty. But anyway, you know that everybody
Speaker 1: has different priorities. You know. People say, like you say,
Speaker 1: some people up for a long time. Some people maybe
Speaker 1: they just have that extra income and like they're a
Speaker 1: bonus or something that they can throw on a hunt
Speaker 1: or something, which is cool too.
Speaker 2: But and it's like anything I would love to have
Speaker 2: a house with five hundred acres, it's I can't afford it,
Speaker 2: so it's just out of my reach. And there's going
Speaker 2: to be things like that in life that are just
Speaker 2: out of your reach. There's no reason to be jealous
Speaker 2: or petty about it. Just is what it is. But
Speaker 2: you shouldn't also fault the guy that owns that or
Speaker 2: that can afford to go on a guide it hunts
Speaker 2: if that's what he wants to do, right, there's I
Speaker 2: think there's no shame in it. I also think for
Speaker 2: some guys that I've hunted, that you'll learn you'll learn
Speaker 2: more on a guided hunt than you want to admit
Speaker 2: you're going to learn. But most of the guys that
Speaker 2: I hunt, especially in archery season, at the end of
Speaker 2: that hunt, they almost all say, I can't believe how
Speaker 2: much I learned. And so how much is an education?
Speaker 2: Not that guides are better than you, and you may
Speaker 2: know more than a guide does, but if you're not,
Speaker 2: if you're a new hunter, a fairly new hunter, how
Speaker 2: much is that education worth? You can cram a lot
Speaker 2: of learning into five or seven days, all them out.
Speaker 2: So I think there's a lot of benefits to outfitted
Speaker 2: and guided hunts.
Speaker 1: Right Well, yeah, if if, if you maybe you're a
Speaker 1: new hunter, or maybe someone who struggled for a long
Speaker 1: time to be successful hunting, you can struggle for years,
Speaker 1: like learning making all the mistakes. I know, I've made
Speaker 1: all the mistakes, and it takes a long time to
Speaker 1: figure that stuff out. And it's like kind of like
Speaker 1: that shortening the learning curve. Really, it's like you go
Speaker 1: somebody with that does things right, and you pick that
Speaker 1: stuff up, You're like, oh, wow, I was doing this
Speaker 1: wrong the whole time. I never had an idea that
Speaker 1: this is a better, a different way to do it,
Speaker 1: you know. So I've heard that a lot from guys too,
Speaker 1: they've gone on outfitted hunts.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think it's the older you get. Also,
Speaker 2: you realize that we all have kind of a finite
Speaker 2: number of hunts in US. You've got, you know, if
Speaker 2: you're if you're really really lucky, you've got forty years
Speaker 2: thirty forty years of good hunts, you know, where you're
Speaker 2: not just sitting on a stump watching for the young guys,
Speaker 2: you know. And so if you can shorten that learning
Speaker 2: curve five years, ten years, that's five or ten more
Speaker 2: potentially more successful years of hunting. And so it is
Speaker 2: a good idea. I think it's a good idea if
Speaker 2: you have the money.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, Okay, here's another question for you, what should
Speaker 1: a hunter expect on a guided her outfitted hunt? Should
Speaker 1: they how should they prepare for the hunt?
Speaker 2: I think what they should expect is these. These would
Speaker 2: be a super basic list. Like if I was going
Speaker 2: on a guide hunt. I never been, but if I was,
Speaker 2: I would expect a quality camp with quality gear, quality
Speaker 2: whatever is used in the camp. I wanted to be quality.
Speaker 2: You know you, it should be quality gear. I would
Speaker 2: expect my guide to be nulled, bligible, friendly, experienced. He
Speaker 2: should know the country. He should be in as good
Speaker 2: or better shape than I am, and he should be willing.
Speaker 2: I think a guy should be willing to impart knowledge
Speaker 2: to the guy that he's hunting with, Like you can't
Speaker 2: just hunt tight lip because you're afraid you're going to
Speaker 2: teach him and not get him to come back. You
Speaker 2: should be teaching those guys, Like we should all do
Speaker 2: that in our life, but especially in that position. That's
Speaker 2: what I would expect. I wouldn't expect success if that's
Speaker 2: what you're expecting that I'm going on a guide to hunt,
Speaker 2: so it's one hundred percent I'm going to kill something.
Speaker 2: I think you're misled and if that's your goal, there's
Speaker 2: plenty of there's high fence and private land opportunities where
Speaker 2: the success rate is really high. But on public land,
Speaker 2: even in the Big three, it's not as easy as
Speaker 2: what people think. And so I wouldn't expect success. I
Speaker 2: would expect, I would hope for opportunity. I wouldn't I
Speaker 2: wouldn't fault the guide if I didn't have opportunity, But
Speaker 2: I should see animals also, That's what I would expect.
Speaker 2: How they can prepare, it's pretty tough to say how
Speaker 2: they can prepare. Like physically, it's really hard. If you
Speaker 2: live it at sea level or five hundred feet, how
Speaker 2: do you prepare to hunt at six thousand? And if
Speaker 2: you have no way to climb sixty degree inclines? How
Speaker 2: can you prepare for that? Physically? That's been pretty pretty tough.
Speaker 2: But there's other things that you can do. And the
Speaker 2: places where I see guys fail is equipment, personal equipment.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of examples. I could site boots, clothing, binoculars,
Speaker 2: those types of things, your own personal hunting gear, backpacks.
Speaker 2: I know they're paying for a guided hunt, but that's
Speaker 2: not the time to cheap out on personal gear that's
Speaker 2: going to really affect the quality of your hunt and
Speaker 2: the comfort of you during your hunt. And also some
Speaker 2: of the like these guys that draw these tags, they've
Speaker 2: got twenty five years. You know, when you're within four
Speaker 2: three four five years of drawing that tag, that's it's
Speaker 2: a great time to be able to start adding some
Speaker 2: gear to your gearbox. Maybe binoculars one year and maybe
Speaker 2: you know, boots, clothing, whatever it is that you need.
Speaker 2: I think gear is one place where guys end up
Speaker 2: shorting themselves, and ultimately they're the ones that pay. I
Speaker 2: think being proficient with your weapon, whether it's archery or
Speaker 2: whether it's a rifle, is going to be critical, you'll find.
Speaker 2: I've had a lot of guys who, when the time
Speaker 2: came to actually execute the shot, they didn't do their part,
Speaker 2: and they were like almost heartbroke. And I thought they
Speaker 2: were heartbroke because they missed the animal. But they would say, Derek,
Speaker 2: you work so hard every single day to get me
Speaker 2: within range and to get me a shot, and I
Speaker 2: keep screwing it up, and I'm like, don't even think
Speaker 2: twice about it. But you know, they feel that burden
Speaker 2: because they realize that you're working really hard for him
Speaker 2: and I think that would be a place where people
Speaker 2: should spend some time shooting.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And I always say, you know, I have
Speaker 1: to always be shooting your high powered rifle right reps
Speaker 1: behind a trigger, a twenty two, like I spent my life.
Speaker 1: People probably don't remember know this about me, but I
Speaker 1: spent my younger days as a kid. As soon as
Speaker 1: I could hold a gun, I was shooting BB guns
Speaker 1: and twenty two's, And I've probably shot about a million
Speaker 1: bbes through an old piece of crap bby gun that
Speaker 1: didn't even have a stock on it. I would like
Speaker 1: improvise and hold that thing up as close as they
Speaker 1: could and shoot BB's with that thing. And then I
Speaker 1: finally got a twenty two. And I don't know how
Speaker 1: many bazillion dollars I spent in twenty two shelves. But man,
Speaker 1: I've shot my whole life, and then I shoot high
Speaker 1: powered rifles from time to time. But I still shoot
Speaker 1: twenty twos a lot. It's just being just being on
Speaker 1: the gun. Yeah, I understand.
Speaker 2: I think the part that where people fail is not
Speaker 2: we think when we talk about shooting, it's just hitting
Speaker 2: the target. Yeah, that's really not the biggest issue. The
Speaker 2: biggest issue is probably target acquisition, where we see a
Speaker 2: bull or deer, whatever it is we're hunting, and I'm saying,
Speaker 2: he's right there, but you don't see him, and you're
Speaker 2: trying to get him in your scope, but you can't
Speaker 2: even see it because target acquisition. Maybe you've got your
Speaker 2: scope turned the magnification all the way up or or
Speaker 2: whatever it is, and you need to back out and
Speaker 2: then find him and then turn up to whatever you
Speaker 2: want to shoot at. But target acquisition is a big deal.
Speaker 2: That's probably you think about it. You might get hopefully
Speaker 2: we've spotted a bull, and you have all the time
Speaker 2: in the world to set up dial if you're going
Speaker 2: to use turrets or whatever. But sometimes it's not that way.
Speaker 2: Sometimes you have maybe a five seconds, ten seconds, fifteen
Speaker 2: seconds to set up and you've got to be able
Speaker 2: to find that animal in that scope and get a shot.
Speaker 2: It's not always about hitting it. That's not what I'm
Speaker 2: talking about specifically. But target acquisition is a big deal.
Speaker 2: And you need to be honest too with your guide.
Speaker 2: When he asked, I don't always see guys shoot, and
Speaker 2: so I'll ask him, you know, what are you what's
Speaker 2: your comfortable rain, and a lot of guys are west
Speaker 2: side guys, and they'll say, well, I never shoot more
Speaker 2: than two hundred yards, so I don't really know. And
Speaker 2: they'll say, well, I shoot a you know, a two
Speaker 2: to three inch group at one hundred, and that's good
Speaker 2: enough for the coast range at one hundred yards, so
Speaker 2: it's no big deal. But out here, you know, two
Speaker 2: inches at one hundred is six inches at three hundred,
Speaker 2: and those shots are super common. You know, you shot
Speaker 2: five hundred or roughly five hundred today, I guess. And
Speaker 2: your rifle that you were using was dialed, it was
Speaker 2: set up for it, everything was great. But not everyone
Speaker 2: has that rifle, and so people just need to be
Speaker 2: honest about their shooting experience, their you know, their rifle,
Speaker 2: their capabilities. I need to know if I know that
Speaker 2: you can shoot a one inch group at one hundred,
Speaker 2: that gives me an idea of our maximum effective range, right,
Speaker 2: So it's important to be honest with the with your guide. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I have I have rifles that clients can use
Speaker 2: as well that are dialed and turreted and all that stuff.
Speaker 2: It doesn't make sense for a guy to go buy,
Speaker 2: you know, a six thousand dollars rifle to go on
Speaker 2: this l hunt. That doesn't really make sense. So I
Speaker 2: have those available that people use. I just let them
Speaker 2: use them. I don't charge them anything for it, but.
Speaker 1: Sure, sure, yeah, And sometimes, like you know, it lets
Speaker 1: you know where you need to set them up too.
Speaker 1: It's like, well, I can't set them up we're going
Speaker 1: to shoot five hundred yards. We need to set up
Speaker 1: further down the ridge, or we need to be on
Speaker 1: a different ridge, you know, we need to set up
Speaker 1: in the right places to shoot from.
Speaker 2: So and I don't want to give the impression that
Speaker 2: it's always a long range of fair because it's not.
Speaker 2: They're sure. The average range, if I think back on
Speaker 2: the bulls that I've killed in the Big Three with clients,
Speaker 2: is probably one hundred and seventy five to two hundred
Speaker 2: and twenty five yards. I'm an archery hunter myself, and
Speaker 2: so my nature is to get as close as I can.
Speaker 2: There's no reason to shoot at three hundred if we
Speaker 2: can get to one hundred and fifty easily. Yeah, And
Speaker 2: the potential to miss at one hundred or one hundred
Speaker 2: and fifty is a lot smaller than it three four
Speaker 2: five and greater.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was watching a video of Ryan Lampers. He's
Speaker 1: an excellent hunter. If you talk to him, he doesn't
Speaker 1: you know, if you quiz him out, he won't really
Speaker 1: tell you a lot of a lot of times and
Speaker 1: like when was the last time you missed? And he
Speaker 1: doesn't miss very often, hardly at all. But I watched
Speaker 1: him on a on a video where he was hunt
Speaker 1: mulder hunting and he could have taken a shot and
Speaker 1: it was probably I think it was like four hundred
Speaker 1: yards or so. I might have this wrong, but he's like,
Speaker 1: I can make that shot, but man, I just really
Speaker 1: want to make sure I get this tier. So they
Speaker 1: moved up and he snuck up and got he cut
Speaker 1: the distance almost in half. Maybe he's not to two
Speaker 1: hundred yards, and now it's a chip shot, right, And
Speaker 1: it's just like that's sometimes by by just getting up
Speaker 1: a little bit closer, it becomes a chip shot and
Speaker 1: then you don't miss, right.
Speaker 2: So and I think too, it depends on your experience
Speaker 2: that for a guy who shoots a lot of shoots
Speaker 2: his rifle a lot is intimately familiar with that rifle.
Speaker 2: I would say three and four hundred yards off of
Speaker 2: a prone rest you know, calm wind conditions, it's almost
Speaker 2: a chip shot. With the right rifle and with the
Speaker 2: optics and the ballistic apps and range finding binoculars and
Speaker 2: all that stuff that we have now, it's almost a
Speaker 2: chip shot. But that's to the that's to a guy
Speaker 2: who's doing that. To a guy who hunts the west
Speaker 2: side in the you know, in that thick brush and
Speaker 2: never shoots more than one hundred yards, it's not really
Speaker 2: fair to put him behind a gun that can shoot
Speaker 2: that and then say shoot five hundred yards. You know,
Speaker 2: that's not it's not even truly, that's not even ethical. Yeah, honestly. So,
Speaker 2: and that guy shooting your gun in camp for three
Speaker 2: shots to make sure he can hit you know, a
Speaker 2: one inch group or whatever whatever you think is acceptable,
Speaker 2: that's not preparing him to shoot five hundred Right. So
Speaker 2: I have guys who you know, you guys can shoot
Speaker 2: five hundred yards, and I'm confident that you can do it.
Speaker 2: I would let you shoot that. I would, And I
Speaker 2: I'm not the guy who's also going to say, you know,
Speaker 2: you can't take that shot. I'm not going to let
Speaker 2: you do that. I feel like there's a lot of
Speaker 2: that heavy handedness and outfitting. You can't shoot this bullet,
Speaker 2: you can't shoot this broadhead, you can't. I'm not your babysitter,
Speaker 2: Like my job is to get you within an ethical
Speaker 2: range and then be a support to you. And you know,
Speaker 2: we've all hunted, and we all know that stuff. Stuff
Speaker 2: just happens. Yea, we miss, we make poor hits. We
Speaker 2: all kinds of stuff happens, and your guide should be
Speaker 2: your support system to help minimize the effects of that.
Speaker 2: But if I felt like a guy could not shoot
Speaker 2: five hundred yards, either because of equipment or because I
Speaker 2: saw him shoot, I would just get him closer. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I would always push that on him. Yeah, absolutely, Usually
Speaker 2: there's no reason we can't get a little bit closer.
Speaker 2: You know, we could have cut where you shot your bull.
Speaker 2: We could have caught a cut one hundred yards just
Speaker 2: by going down the hill further, and it would have
Speaker 2: caused some other issues. We would have been shooting maybe
Speaker 2: at a different incline, or you know, your support wouldn't
Speaker 2: have been prone on the ground. You might have been
Speaker 2: shooting off of you know, my tripod with a gun
Speaker 2: saddle on it or something which wouldn't be ideal. But
Speaker 2: there's options we can get closer. Sure, and if nothing else,
Speaker 2: there's another day. We'd rather wait and hunt an elk
Speaker 2: the next day than to wound it and lose it.
Speaker 2: Nobody wants that over a marginal shot, you know, just
Speaker 2: for the sake of saying I did it.
Speaker 1: Sure, What's been your very favorite hunt? And in your
Speaker 1: years of guiding and outfitting hunters you have, do you
Speaker 1: have one that stands out that was like this was
Speaker 1: like probably one of my favoritest hunts ever. I have one.
Speaker 2: It wasn't even a paid hunt. I was guiding. I
Speaker 2: was guiding an el kunter. I told you guys this
Speaker 2: story this weekend. I was guiding an elk hunter in
Speaker 2: Mount Emily and we had gone down over a hill
Speaker 2: after a bull to get a better look at it
Speaker 2: before we committed to shooting it. And so we sat
Speaker 2: on that bowl all day. It finally came out at
Speaker 2: almost dark and just a smaller bull than what the
Speaker 2: client wanted to shoot. So we were just sitting there
Speaker 2: kind of killing time, so we didn't blow those elk out.
Speaker 2: When we left and I looked down and I see
Speaker 2: a guy and his wife and like a teenage daughter
Speaker 2: looked like young teenage daughter coming around the hill below us.
Speaker 2: And I'm not sure how I knew that they were
Speaker 2: spike hunters. I'd hate the stereotype, but I just had
Speaker 2: an idea that they were spike hunters, and so I
Speaker 2: told that hunter. I said, I'm going to go down
Speaker 2: and I'm going to bring the we were. Also when
Speaker 2: we were sitting there, there was two spikes above us,
Speaker 2: like one hundred and seventy five yards above us, and
Speaker 2: I said, I'm going to go down and get that
Speaker 2: guy and see if he wants to kill one of
Speaker 2: these spikes. I'll help him. And so client wasn't super
Speaker 2: happy about it, but we didn't have anything to lose.
Speaker 2: We weren't going to shoot that bull. We were done
Speaker 2: hunting for the day. So I ran down to the guy,
Speaker 2: told him who I was, asked if he had spike tags.
Speaker 2: He did or his wife and daughter did. I said,
Speaker 2: if you want to kill two spikes right now, I'll
Speaker 2: bring you up here and we'll shoot these two. And
Speaker 2: so I brought him up to where we were, had
Speaker 2: both his daughter and his wife prone, and they shot
Speaker 2: both those spikes. Boom boom. Both of them fell down,
Speaker 2: and it was the cool part was it was his
Speaker 2: daughter's first big game animal, and it was his wife's
Speaker 2: I think, first time hunting. She was a five year
Speaker 2: breast cancer survivor. It was like her first time out.
Speaker 2: And another cool part was it was their last last
Speaker 2: day of their hunt, and he said, he told his wife,
Speaker 2: We're going to go out on the face of this mountain.
Speaker 2: And she said, why are we going to do that?
Speaker 2: And he said, oh, I think we might see something
Speaker 2: out there. And she said, we're not going to see anything,
Speaker 2: and he said, oh, God will provide away. And they
Speaker 2: went out there and it just it turned out amazing
Speaker 2: that we were able to help them kill that and
Speaker 2: it wasn't even a paid thing I had. You know,
Speaker 2: we had nothing really to gain from it. That was
Speaker 2: what my client said. He was a little bit upset
Speaker 2: about it, you know, And I said, we have nothing
Speaker 2: to lose and everything to We're going to help this
Speaker 2: guy and his family and we're going to feel good
Speaker 2: about it. And it's what we should be doing anyway
Speaker 2: as sportsman, just helping each other out. We don't have
Speaker 2: to gain on every single thing. Sometimes you do things
Speaker 2: just for the good of doing them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, doing the right thing feels.
Speaker 2: Good, right, right, And even that guy reached out to
Speaker 2: me months and months later and was so appreciative that
Speaker 2: it just it fills your heart to do stuff like
Speaker 2: that for people.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, well, Matt, I have had the best time
Speaker 1: hunting here. I mean, it's been a short it's been
Speaker 1: a short trip. I mean I kill on day one.
Speaker 1: How great's that? You know? I always say, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe it's not a real l hunt until you've had
Speaker 1: to have the highest of highs and the lowest of
Speaker 1: lows and then get back to the highest of highs.
Speaker 1: But we had some highs and lows today with wind
Speaker 1: and lots of competition, a lot of other folks out
Speaker 1: there in the woods, and then we had a really
Speaker 1: big high when I got that bowl.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, just going from we were almost sure we
Speaker 2: were going to get a shot at that bull, and
Speaker 2: then to have, you know, a bunch of competition from
Speaker 2: DIY hunters coming into the same area and no one
Speaker 2: really being willing to yield to the other. So we're
Speaker 2: all kind of hoping to spot this bull from different
Speaker 2: vantage points. But that was a low, Like I know,
Speaker 2: all night long, it was a low for all of us.
Speaker 2: We were all worried how it was going to turn out,
Speaker 2: but it just turned out it wasn't that bull, but
Speaker 2: we knew there were other good bulls in that same drainage,
Speaker 2: and so we just put ourselves in the best spot
Speaker 2: to hopefully have a shot when no one else would
Speaker 2: and it just worked out.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it was really good to have you guys out.
Speaker 2: It was great when Jason first reached out to me
Speaker 2: about this tag, when I first drew it, and Jason
Speaker 2: was trying to figure out a way to do it
Speaker 2: himself and that didn't pan out. And then he said, well,
Speaker 2: what what if Dirk? What if Dirk could do it?
Speaker 2: And I said, man, Dirk would be awesome. Everybody loves
Speaker 2: Dirk and Dirk is a great guy. And I feel
Speaker 2: like the people that are mad about outfit or tags
Speaker 2: go into I think what they're mad about is that
Speaker 2: they just go to someone that has a bunch of money. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and we don't like the sound of that. We don't
Speaker 2: like the way it feels. It feels elitist, and that
Speaker 2: these guys are just buying a deal. So to have
Speaker 2: a regular guy like Dirk get that tag, I don't
Speaker 2: I don't understand how anyone could really be mad about that.
Speaker 1: I know I'm not. Yeah right, I'm happy about it. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm appreciative for the opportunity. And man, i'd like to
Speaker 1: say I can't wait to come back, But I don't
Speaker 1: know that will ever happen again. But you know, who knows.
Speaker 1: You know, maybe maybe maybe I'll get lucky again someday,
Speaker 1: maybe I'll draw a tag. But but yeah, it's been fun.
Speaker 1: It's beautiful. It's beautiful country up here. They call it
Speaker 1: the Blue Mountains, but man, they're sure are a lot
Speaker 1: of tamaracks that are bright gold, you know, foll so
Speaker 1: beautiful and a lot of game. We saw a lot
Speaker 1: of bulls. We saw like seven bowls last night, and yeah,
Speaker 1: it was it's been fun. It's been fun. I I'm
Speaker 1: that's that's the bad part about pulling trigger. The good
Speaker 1: part and the bad part. The good part is like, yes,
Speaker 1: I got one. The bad part is it's over. It's
Speaker 1: over now, I don't I mean, we could have we
Speaker 1: could have spent more time hunting, and it's it's not
Speaker 1: easy haunting them. Like we sat there and about froze
Speaker 1: to death today the wind and it was cold and
Speaker 1: the wind just cut and then tonight with the weather
Speaker 1: coming in, I could I can tell the rest of
Speaker 1: the week would not have been easy.
Speaker 2: This was the best day to kill if you're going
Speaker 2: to Yeah.
Speaker 1: But but we would have we would have dug in
Speaker 1: and enjoyed every bit of it and suffered through all
Speaker 1: the hardships. And but that's hounting, right, that's the that's
Speaker 1: the fun part about hunting. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And if it if you can look at a
Speaker 2: bull and you even if it's just in that moment,
Speaker 2: you think, man, that's this is a great situation. Sometimes
Speaker 2: it's the guy's hunting with his son, his father, whatever
Speaker 2: it is, and it's not. Sometimes the hunt isn't about
Speaker 2: the size of the antlers. It's just about the It
Speaker 2: might be the stock, it might be the country, it
Speaker 2: might be the company. Yeah, it's just a lot of things.
Speaker 2: So I wish people wouldn't get hung up on the
Speaker 2: size of the antler so much because I think it
Speaker 2: cheats us out of the experience really, And so yeah,
Speaker 2: hopefully hopefully you're happy with that bowl. I'm happy for you. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And it's beautiful, bul It was a great hunt, good
Speaker 2: time in camp, you know, it's great. I'd have you
Speaker 2: guys come back next year in a second. Yeah, if
Speaker 2: I could get you to cut away and come help
Speaker 2: me on that sheep hunt this week, that'd be great.
Speaker 2: Your wife already thinks you're gone for a week, it
Speaker 2: would be great.
Speaker 1: You could probably just like not send her any pictures
Speaker 1: and be like, yeah, yeah, the hunt went the distance.
Speaker 1: Hant honey, not knowing we want sheep hunting. That'd be fun.
Speaker 2: Go help on that, right, Well, anytime you got time, yep,
Speaker 2: I'll put you in camp cooking and washing dishes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that'd be good too. That'd be good too. We've
Speaker 1: had good food here so far, so it's been great.
Speaker 1: So tell everyone how they can find you on social
Speaker 1: on website and stuff.
Speaker 2: So my website is Eastern organ Outfitters dot com. I
Speaker 2: have Instagram, Facebook, it's also Eastern organ Outfitters. Super easy
Speaker 2: to find. You could google it. It's easy to find.
Speaker 2: And I'm fairly active on social media. I kind of
Speaker 2: when I get into a hunt, I don't post a
Speaker 2: whole lot. I'm more collecting content that I can share
Speaker 2: later when I have time to breathe. But you know,
Speaker 2: this is a busy time of year. But yeah, you
Speaker 2: can get a hold of me on Facebook, Instagram or
Speaker 2: my website.
Speaker 1: That's awesome. Well, thanks a lot, Derek, appreciate you having us,
Speaker 1: having us as a guest in your camp. Thanks for
Speaker 1: coming on the podcast, and I look forward to seeing
Speaker 1: what the rest of your hunters do this fall. Yep.
Speaker 2: Thanks, I appreciate you guys.
Speaker 1: Yep, keep back
Speaker 2: Most and the break the time