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Speaker 1: And we're back with another episode of Cutting the Distance podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm the host Dirk Durham today and I'm in the

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Speaker 1: beautiful blue mountains of Oregon, Northeastern Oregon. If you will,

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Speaker 1: I've got my buddy Derek Miller, who is an owner

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Speaker 1: operator of an outfitting business here in Oregon in some

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Speaker 1: of the big three units ELK units in Oregon, which, uh,

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Speaker 1: which are you? How many units do you guide in?

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Speaker 2: Here? I'm permitted to operate in all of the big

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Speaker 2: three that I primarily operate in Mount Emily and Wanaha.

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Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, nice, nice. We just wrapped up like a

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Speaker 1: what's a lifetime type of ELK hunt for me here

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Speaker 1: in Oregon here in one of the those big three units.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if do we want to tell people

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Speaker 1: where it's at or they'll probably figure it out, but

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Speaker 1: I always had to leave a little mystery.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't matter to me. The availability of tags

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Speaker 2: is so small that it doesn't really matter.

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Speaker 1: But right right, well, I had the opportunity to come

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Speaker 1: hunt with Derek through the Outfitter Tag program. So an outfitter,

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Speaker 1: the outfitters apply for an opportunity to draw a tag

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Speaker 1: one tag in these units tell us how that works.

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Speaker 2: So licensed outfitters in Oregon can apply for non resident

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Speaker 2: outfitter tags in the Big Three and if you're if

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Speaker 2: you're issued one of those tags, if you're lucky enough

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Speaker 2: to draw it, then they'll if you for service, will

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Speaker 2: issue you a operating permit for that hunt. I happen

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Speaker 2: to have a priority permit on part of that National

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Speaker 2: forest and a temporary permit year to year permit on

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Speaker 2: the rest of it.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, that's coo. And then I was able to

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Speaker 1: have the opportunity to buy that tag. It's it's crazy,

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Speaker 1: you know, some people kind of poo poo on that idea,

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Speaker 1: which I kind of get. You know, it's there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of folks who will spend twenty plus years applying

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Speaker 1: as a resident in this state trying to draw a tag,

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Speaker 1: and and it's probably a little disheartening for them when

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Speaker 1: some jerk like me comes along and buys a tag.

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Speaker 1: But you know this is you know, the state, the

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Speaker 1: state does this, They allow it. Somebody's gonna buy the tag,

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Speaker 1: and and by gully, this time, it's just a good

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Speaker 1: old kid from we Ipe that I would have never

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Speaker 1: thought in a million years I'd ever been able to

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Speaker 1: hunt this unit, So I'm super thankful and fortunate to

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Speaker 1: come here. But man, I was really I've been really

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Speaker 1: looking forward to this this hunt all summer. You've sent

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Speaker 1: me pictures of some big bulls you've been scouting, and

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Speaker 1: then in September hit and you had some cool videos

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Speaker 1: on from from trail camps of bulls on wallows, bugling

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Speaker 1: and stuff, and that's really cool. I'm just I'm just wondering,

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Speaker 1: what is your normal what's your normal client base look like?

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Speaker 1: Is that? You know? I feel like some people get

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Speaker 1: this idea that like, oh, somebody went with an outfitter there,

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Speaker 1: they must not be a good hunter, or oh they

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Speaker 1: should have just did that theirself, or oh outfitted hunt

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Speaker 1: not for me. I don't want to even hear about it, right,

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Speaker 1: but I feel like there's some weird misconceptions about who

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Speaker 1: actually will book a hunt with an outfitter.

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Speaker 2: Right in the Big Three, it's kind of a unique

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Speaker 2: situation because it takes so long to draw, and the

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Speaker 2: average age of a hunter that draws the Big Three

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Speaker 2: because it takes twenty plus years to draw, is probably

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Speaker 2: fifty and above. So the age demographic is probably fifty

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Speaker 2: to seventy on average. Those are the guys that are

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Speaker 2: typically booking hunts. The guy that's, you know, twenty to thirty,

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Speaker 2: he's still he still thinks he can do it on

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Speaker 2: his own, which he can. There's no reason that he

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Speaker 2: can't do it alone. But we all know as we

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Speaker 2: get older, we have physical limitations and time limitations. So

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Speaker 2: the average guy is going to be fifty to seventies,

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Speaker 2: probably either retired or a business owner. He has the

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Speaker 2: disposable income to hire an outfitter. He doesn't have a

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Speaker 2: lot of excess time to come and scout like you

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Speaker 2: would want to for a twenty five year tag to

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Speaker 2: do that tag justice and do your due diligence to

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Speaker 2: find yourself a bull. So he's probably the average. Most

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Speaker 2: all of them are hunters of one type or another,

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Speaker 2: all different skill levels. There's some really experienced hunters and

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Speaker 2: there's some that have never killed a bull. The vast,

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Speaker 2: vast majority of my clients have probably never killed a

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Speaker 2: mature bowl. They may have spy hunted or cow hunter

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Speaker 2: or whatever, but they've never killed a mature bowl anyway.

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Speaker 2: It's not that they're new hunters, it's just that in Oregon,

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Speaker 2: our opportunities are somewhat limited to hunt big bulls. We

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Speaker 2: don't have a ton of units that have them, and

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Speaker 2: the ones that do have them, it takes a bit

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Speaker 2: to draw a tag, so the average hunter just wants

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Speaker 2: to maximize what he's got. You know, it took him

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Speaker 2: twenty five years to get the tag, and he doesn't

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Speaker 2: want to waste it, so he hires a guide. And

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Speaker 2: the benefits of the guide, there's a lot of them.

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Speaker 2: But the guide knows the country better than you'll ever

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Speaker 2: know it, even though you may have friends that have

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Speaker 2: hunted it with friends or whatever. The guides are hunting

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Speaker 2: that every single year, two months out of the year

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Speaker 2: between archery season and rifle season, so they're just they're

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Speaker 2: familiar with the unit in waste that most people aren't.

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Speaker 2: It Also, you know, maybe they don't have the equipment.

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Speaker 2: It's late season, we can end up with a lot

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Speaker 2: of snow. Transportation can be an issue. So sometimes it's

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Speaker 2: equipment they don't have. Sometimes it's the time they don't

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Speaker 2: have the scout. Sometimes it's maybe the knowledge. They don't

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Speaker 2: feel like they have enough knowledge to kill a ball

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Speaker 2: that they've been waiting twenty years to kill, so there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of reasons. I've found. Very rarely it's because

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Speaker 2: the person is inept. It's just they've weighed the they've

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Speaker 2: weighed the odds, and they think that their odds are

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Speaker 2: stacked better with help.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely well. One thing I've kind of noticed over the

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Speaker 1: years is when some people draw really hard to get tag,

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Speaker 1: whether it's Oregon or Idaho or Utah or whatever, they

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Speaker 1: may have a network of friends that like are are like, hey,

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Speaker 1: I want to go along and help. But not everybody

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Speaker 1: has a network of friends that want to or can

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Speaker 1: you know, some of us are friends just they work,

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Speaker 1: you know, they can't get.

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Speaker 2: Out, And a lot of times you have when you

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Speaker 2: draw the tag, you have a whole bunch of people

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Speaker 2: that want to help, but as the time approaches, they

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Speaker 2: can't get time off, or life happens like it does

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Speaker 2: for all of us, and some of those guys find

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Speaker 2: out that they're going to be on their own, and

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Speaker 2: if or maybe they have one or two friends. But

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Speaker 2: if you're fifty to seventy, your friends are mostly fifty

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Speaker 2: to seventy, and so they may not be quite the

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Speaker 2: help you need.

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Speaker 1: Right so right, yeah, and there, you know, it's nothing

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Speaker 1: beats boots on the ground, somebody that's been in the

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Speaker 1: unit a lot and familiar with the area and the

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Speaker 1: areas that help frequent and you know, it's it sure

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Speaker 1: saves a lot of leg work. Definitely.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's nice that you can on day one because

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Speaker 2: it takes over twenty years to draw the tag. Most

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Speaker 2: people haven't scouted the unit and they think they're going

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Speaker 2: to scout the unit in the months leading up, but

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Speaker 2: they don't. Either they don't because of time constraints, or

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Speaker 2: even when they do. Where the elk are in June

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Speaker 2: and July and August and September, they probably aren't going

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Speaker 2: to be in November. So it's kind of you're scouting

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Speaker 2: country but not really scouting elk. And so it's also

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Speaker 2: nice that on day one you hit the ground running.

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Speaker 2: We've all gone places where we're not familiar with, really

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Speaker 2: a new place. We're kind of going in blind, maybe

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Speaker 2: with some scouting, but how many days do you spend

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Speaker 2: just kind of get the feel of the country, And

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Speaker 2: this way you don't have to. Your guy's already been there.

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Speaker 2: He's probably been there. Hopefully he's been there in the

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Speaker 2: days right prior to your hunt, so he already has

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Speaker 2: Elk spotted. You know, we knew exactly where we were

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Speaker 2: going this morning. We knew exactly where we were going.

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Speaker 2: We had videos of Elk that we wanted to kill

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Speaker 2: from less than twenty four hours ago. So I think

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Speaker 2: there's some real benefits to And it's not that a

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Speaker 2: guy can't do that. I'm not saying that they can't

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Speaker 2: do it on their own. They can, but it's sometimes

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Speaker 2: and for certain people, I think it's just a better

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Speaker 2: option if you have the ability to do it.

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Speaker 1: Right right or when it comes to like get an

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Speaker 1: animal out, you know, right, let's say once you're successful,

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Speaker 1: I mean, and Elk is a big animal and his

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Speaker 1: canyons are pretty steep, right and rugged here and a

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Speaker 1: lot of folks, you know, it's it's going to be

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Speaker 1: a big burden to get it out, and you know,

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Speaker 1: especially if you're diy do it yourself, and you may

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Speaker 1: not have that again, that safety rope or network of friends,

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Speaker 1: or maybe all your friends are back home, you know,

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Speaker 1: eight hours from here, and they just can't run over

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Speaker 1: to help you pack out an Elk man. It's sure

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Speaker 1: is nice to you know, have yeah.

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Speaker 2: A group of guys right there that can just throw

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Speaker 2: it on their back and get out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, make it a one trip pack out and it's done.

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Speaker 1: And man, it's it's fun. Yeah, it's really fun.

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Speaker 2: It makes it a lot more enjoyable. There's something to

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Speaker 2: be said for the suffering of packing a bull out

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Speaker 2: over several days by yourself, but there's also something to

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Speaker 2: be said for getting it done and sitting around camp

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Speaker 2: just visiting for a few hours afterwards too. Oh yeah, definitely,

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Speaker 2: it's both ways are great.

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Speaker 1: So my expectations when I came on this hunt, I've

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Speaker 1: always tempered my expectations for all hunting because I've been

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Speaker 1: hunting for thirty five years, you know, do it yourself

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Speaker 1: type hunting, so I understand what hunting is about. You know,

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Speaker 1: of course you're going to set your sights on the

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Speaker 1: big animal you can possibly find, and we would all

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Speaker 1: like to go home with that three fifty or three

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Speaker 1: eighty or whatever number type of bowl or just maybe

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Speaker 1: just I want a big, heavy six point or whatever.

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Speaker 1: So coming into this hunt, I always try to like

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Speaker 1: temper my expectations. I didn't have a number set on

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Speaker 1: a bowl. I just I wanted to shoot a big,

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Speaker 1: beautiful bowl. I didn't care if it was a perfect six.

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Speaker 1: I didn't care if it was a lopsided seven by eight.

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Speaker 1: I like, you know, with weird points. I didn't really care.

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Speaker 1: I just wanted a cool opportunity, a cool bowl that

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Speaker 1: I that I liked when I seen it. And sometimes

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Speaker 1: you find those on the first day. Sometimes a guy

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Speaker 1: don't find those at all in a season, or maybe

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Speaker 1: you find them on the last day. But today, man, wait,

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Speaker 1: the elk gods smiled on us, like they put one

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Speaker 1: right in front of us. We We've done a little

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Speaker 1: bit of due diligence the night before and spotted a

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Speaker 1: really nice seven by eight, And I'm like, oh, man,

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Speaker 1: I want that thing. And but I know hunting, and

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Speaker 1: I just know how it works to where just because

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Speaker 1: you see one the night before and they're and and

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Speaker 1: and you guys have been watching them for a for

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Speaker 1: a day or two, and it's like, it doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: it's a gimme tomorrow morning.

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Speaker 2: That elker they have seen killing two different things entirely.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yep. And then you have you have some other

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Speaker 1: things in the equation. We're not out here just this

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Speaker 1: is not like an exclusive private land place. You know,

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Speaker 1: there are a few uh mature bull tags, you know,

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Speaker 1: branch bull tags. But there's a lot of spike hunters

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Speaker 1: out hunting, so you know, it's public land, so we're

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Speaker 1: gonna out We're to be out here competing with those guys.

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Speaker 1: And you know, we always hope and that everyone's gonna

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Speaker 1: be respectful because we're going to be respectful. But sometimes

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Speaker 1: you just ever know what could happen till it could

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Speaker 1: you know, we could have the whole hillside to ourself,

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Speaker 1: we could be sharing it with twenty other people, right,

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Speaker 1: So I just kind of tempered my expectations, like I

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Speaker 1: just want to have a really fun hunt. I've never

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Speaker 1: hunted here for myself before. I got to hunt this

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Speaker 1: area with Jason Phelps here in twenty twenty one and

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Speaker 1: enjoyed it, and I thought it was a really cool experience.

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Speaker 1: And I just thought, you know, I just want to

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Speaker 1: have a good time and see lots of elk and

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Speaker 1: see lots of bowls, and maybe I'll get fortunate enough

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Speaker 1: to get a nice one that I want to shoot

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Speaker 1: within range.

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Speaker 2: Right, And I think I think people should temper their expectation.

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Speaker 2: We all, I had wind Aha in twenty eighteen, and

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Speaker 2: of course I had high expectations. But as you go

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Speaker 2: into the hunt, you when you're thinking about it, you're

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Speaker 2: only thinking about the end result. I'm going to kill

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Speaker 2: a three fifty bowl or three sixty year or whatever

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Speaker 2: your number is. But you don't realize. And we talked

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Speaker 2: about it last when we saw that seven by eight bowl,

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Speaker 2: and we're like, we pretty much had that thing already

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Speaker 2: on our backs at that point. We were like, this

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Speaker 2: is going to happen on the wall, right, Yeah, But

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Speaker 2: then you start to realize and then, like I think

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Speaker 2: I said, anything can happen, we start to get these

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Speaker 2: wild card things that come up, and like last night,

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Speaker 2: we're watching that bull and all of a sudden, there's

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Speaker 2: other people that hadn't seen the bull but just kind

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Speaker 2: of showed up randomly looking like they're doing the same

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Speaker 2: that we were when we found the bull. And so

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Speaker 2: now you've got other DIY hunters with branch boll tags

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Speaker 2: that are watching the same bull. And like you said,

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Speaker 2: there was sometimes people are respectful, sometimes they're not. Uh.

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Speaker 2: We had spike hunters rolling on us this morning, like

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Speaker 2: walk right up next to us while we're glassing for

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Speaker 2: the bull. That was a wild card. We had wind,

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Speaker 2: We had snow, we had, fog, we had There's all

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Speaker 2: these wild cards that come in that you don't really

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Speaker 2: think about, and those are the ones that kind of

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Speaker 2: beat you down mentally to where a guy will either

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Speaker 2: settle for something way less than they wanted or or quit.

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Speaker 2: There's the success rate is high in these units, but

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Speaker 2: it's not one hundred percent, even though there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of ilk. And I think really my favorite clients are

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Speaker 2: the ones that say, well, I've never killed a big bull,

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Speaker 2: I've never killed a bull, or I've killed a bowl

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Speaker 2: three hundred inch bul and so they just want that

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Speaker 2: to be the best bowl of their life. And it's

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Speaker 2: not that I don't think they can do better than

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Speaker 2: that goal, but that's a realistic goal and you'll never

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Speaker 2: feel shorted if you can achieve that goal. Or maybe

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Speaker 2: they just want to kill a mature bull. That bull

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Speaker 2: you killed was a mature bull, beautiful bull. It wasn't

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Speaker 2: a seven by eight, no, but it's a beautiful bull.

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Speaker 2: There's nothing wrong with that bull, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: So I think it is important to temper your expectations

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Speaker 2: with reality. And if you talk to people that hunt

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Speaker 2: the unit a lot frequently, guides or other people. You'll

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Speaker 2: realize that there's not three eighty bulls around every tree.

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Speaker 2: You're not going to to see three fifty bowls every

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Speaker 2: day or even every week, right and so, and weather

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Speaker 2: is huge too. You know, the first week we generally

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Speaker 2: have pretty good weather, and in the area that we're hunting,

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Speaker 2: the first week there's no snow, and the elk are

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Speaker 2: still here. But by next week, if we've got a

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Speaker 2: foot of snow or six eight inches of snow, these

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Speaker 2: elk are gone. And so sometimes you shoot the elk

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Speaker 2: that's in front of you if you like the bowl,

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Speaker 2: instead of waiting and trying to hold out and getting greedy.

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Speaker 2: And then you know, later in the week it's snows

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Speaker 2: and there's nothing, and so you've kind of shot yourself

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Speaker 2: in the foot over some pride, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And this is a short hunt. This is

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Speaker 1: a five day hunt. You know, it's not like we

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Speaker 1: have two weeks to enjoy these mountains and turn over

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Speaker 1: every rock and just be choosy and super choosy. So

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Speaker 1: I thought, you know, with everything considered, a lot of

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Speaker 1: hunters around with weather coming.

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Speaker 2: In, it's snowing right now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you guys may hear the wind, and we got

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Speaker 1: the generator going, and it's snowing outside now, like it

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Speaker 1: could snow a couple of inches tonight. It could snow afoot,

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Speaker 1: it could.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you just don't know.

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Speaker 1: We don't know what that's going to be, but we

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Speaker 1: do know it's going to affect the elk one way

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Speaker 1: or another, and probably not in our favor. And a

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Speaker 1: lot of times, well I was just glad, like where

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Speaker 1: we packed packed this bull out if I can't imagine

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Speaker 1: if that had been snow on the ground that we'd

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Speaker 1: have had it had been dangerous, like it was switch dangerous.

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Speaker 2: And I carry I carry a couple pair of crampons

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Speaker 2: that I can give guys that are like one inch crampons,

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Speaker 2: regular mountaineering crampons, and those help immensely on that really slick,

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Speaker 2: frozen ground. But luckily we didn't need it.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, thank goodness. But anyway, I was able to

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Speaker 1: make a good shot. You know, we had some pretty

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Speaker 1: gusty winds this morning, and then right it when the

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Speaker 1: shot was when I was able to take that shot,

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Speaker 1: the wind kind of switched to be kind of blowing

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Speaker 1: right in her face, so you know, wasn't left or

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Speaker 1: right and made a good shot and then the I

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Speaker 1: hit him pretty good, but I ended up having to

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Speaker 1: make a follow up shot, which made a okay shot

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Speaker 1: when when I took the follow up shot it was

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Speaker 1: really windy then. So you guys will be able to

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Speaker 1: see all this whole. I shouldn't even I shouldn't even

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Speaker 1: spoil it because you'll be able to see the video

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Speaker 1: where you have the video come out and we'll let

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Speaker 1: you know when it's out. But you'll be able to

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Speaker 1: And if you want to go, check out my Instagram,

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Speaker 1: it's the Bugler and I'll collaborate with Philips game calls

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Speaker 1: and you'll be able to see the bull on there

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Speaker 1: the picture of it. But he was a beautiful six point.

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Speaker 1: He was every like I said, everybody comes here with

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Speaker 1: stars in her eyes, including me. It's like he never

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Speaker 1: know you might get a three eighty bowl.

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Speaker 2: But that's the attraction to the Big Three.

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Speaker 1: It is.

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Speaker 2: It is the wild like you never know, you never

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Speaker 2: know what might walk out. You just don't know what's

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Speaker 2: going to walk out. We didn't expect that seven by

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Speaker 2: eight to be what he was when he walked out

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Speaker 2: last night. Either. We had seen him in the timber

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Speaker 2: the day before that, couldn't really see his whole frame

345
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Speaker 2: and everything he had, but he was a really cool,

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Speaker 2: unique bowl that anybody would have shot. Yeah in that unit.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and the bowl I squeezed the trigger on. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm so happy with it. I'm very happy. He's a

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Speaker 1: beautiful bull. If I was to draw a picture of

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Speaker 1: a bowl in my mind before it came, I would

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Speaker 1: probably draw a picture the shape of antlers like that.

352
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Speaker 1: It's just he's pretty, he's well proportioned. He's symmetrical, yeah,

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Speaker 1: which I was kind of laughing last night. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I I typically, if you look at my horn pile,

355
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Speaker 1: I've got some asymmetrical stuff. It's like not like non typical.

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Speaker 1: It's just like one side's really good, one side's not

357
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Speaker 1: so good, or one side's a little different. And I

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Speaker 1: thought for sure it was like, oh yeah, I'll probably

359
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Speaker 1: get that seven by eight, But no, I got a

360
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Speaker 1: beautiful symmetrical six by six, which was surprising to me.

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Speaker 1: So really yeah, so that was really fun. Well, listen,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna shift gears here. We're gonna do the old

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Speaker 1: Pendleton Whiskey question and answer segment. And first question, Now,

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Speaker 1: this might be all sensitive and I and I think

365
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Speaker 1: a lot of people are thinking it, but not a

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Speaker 1: lot of people are saying it. But why are the

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Speaker 1: costs of guided and outfitted hunts so expensive?

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Speaker 2: You know, there's a wide there's a wide variety of

369
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Speaker 2: costs for outfitted hunts. Bigger, more established outfitters charge a

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Speaker 2: lot more. They've got a history of maybe killing big bulls.

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Speaker 2: If your goal was to come in here and kill

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Speaker 2: you know, one of the top five bulls in the

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Speaker 2: unit that people know about, you're going to pay for

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Speaker 2: that opportunity. Yeah, and so those are some things, but

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Speaker 2: there's it's just like any business, there's costs. Every guy

376
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Speaker 2: that we have helping, whether he's glassing, guiding, cooking, whatever

377
00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,399
Speaker 2: he's doing, that guy's getting paid every day. And I

378
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Speaker 2: pay my guys for the entire week, whether we hunt

379
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Speaker 2: one day or whether we hunt a week. And so

380
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Speaker 2: that's an expense. Our permitting cost, money for service wants, there,

381
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Speaker 2: share insurance, you know, fuel for the rig, the side

382
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Speaker 2: by side, someone's got to pay for the side by side,

383
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Speaker 2: and you know, hey for the horses all year, even

384
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Speaker 2: though we use them for a few months out of

385
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Speaker 2: the year. So it it just is it seems like

386
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Speaker 2: a lot, and it is a lot. But you know,

387
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Speaker 2: if you if you break it down, it's it's not

388
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Speaker 2: you can you can justify every expense. It's just unfortunate.

389
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Speaker 2: It feels even as an outfitter, which is part of

390
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Speaker 2: why I started outfitting myself, because I was working for

391
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Speaker 2: other outfitters that were charging whatever they were charging. I'm

392
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Speaker 2: not going to say they were too much, but in

393
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Speaker 2: my mind, I felt like people were being priced out

394
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Speaker 2: of an outfitted hunt. And I kind of like the

395
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Speaker 2: idea of just being a regular, like every man's outfitter,

396
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Speaker 2: and so if I can keep my prices lower. It's

397
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Speaker 2: not a lot of people say raise your price, you

398
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Speaker 2: need raise your price. But I just feel like I'm

399
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Speaker 2: I feel like I'm not serving the clientele that I

400
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:53,679
Speaker 2: want to serve. I want to serve the guy that

401
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:56,679
Speaker 2: maybe I had to save five years to go on

402
00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:00,919
Speaker 2: a hunt, you know, or but they're expenses. It's just

403
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:05,200
Speaker 2: all expensive. Oh yeah, equipment, you know, it's campus four

404
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:09,439
Speaker 2: thousand dollars and it's just everything, oh yeah, food, the tents,

405
00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:11,640
Speaker 2: you know, how much? How many hundreds of dollars did

406
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Speaker 2: we spend? Like this hunt was planned for a week.

407
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Speaker 2: We have food for a week for six people, and

408
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:22,080
Speaker 2: we hunted one day. Yeah, so it's just expenses, you know.

409
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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's not money, get you just you don't

410
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Speaker 1: get that very store.

411
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Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't get it back.

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Speaker 1: No, no, no, that's a that's a great, great answer,

413
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Speaker 1: which I think. You know, sometimes it's easy to like

414
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Speaker 1: sit here and pick pick things apart, like or people like,

415
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Speaker 1: oh it must be nice, but like people prioritize in

416
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Speaker 1: their life what's important to them. Right, So one guy

417
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Speaker 1: might say, oh, it must be nice, but he drives

418
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Speaker 1: an eighty thousand dollars truck, right, And I drive a

419
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Speaker 1: truck that's been paid off since twenty twelve, right, and

420
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Speaker 1: it's not real pretty. But anyway, you know that everybody

421
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Speaker 1: has different priorities. You know. People say, like you say,

422
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Speaker 1: some people up for a long time. Some people maybe

423
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Speaker 1: they just have that extra income and like they're a

424
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,600
Speaker 1: bonus or something that they can throw on a hunt

425
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Speaker 1: or something, which is cool too.

426
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Speaker 2: But and it's like anything I would love to have

427
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,080
Speaker 2: a house with five hundred acres, it's I can't afford it,

428
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Speaker 2: so it's just out of my reach. And there's going

429
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:20,919
Speaker 2: to be things like that in life that are just

430
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,359
Speaker 2: out of your reach. There's no reason to be jealous

431
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 2: or petty about it. Just is what it is. But

432
00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:28,280
Speaker 2: you shouldn't also fault the guy that owns that or

433
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,160
Speaker 2: that can afford to go on a guide it hunts

434
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 2: if that's what he wants to do, right, there's I

435
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,399
Speaker 2: think there's no shame in it. I also think for

436
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,160
Speaker 2: some guys that I've hunted, that you'll learn you'll learn

437
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,720
Speaker 2: more on a guided hunt than you want to admit

438
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:42,919
Speaker 2: you're going to learn. But most of the guys that

439
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 2: I hunt, especially in archery season, at the end of

440
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:49,320
Speaker 2: that hunt, they almost all say, I can't believe how

441
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,560
Speaker 2: much I learned. And so how much is an education?

442
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:54,720
Speaker 2: Not that guides are better than you, and you may

443
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,199
Speaker 2: know more than a guide does, but if you're not,

444
00:22:57,320 --> 00:22:59,600
Speaker 2: if you're a new hunter, a fairly new hunter, how

445
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,200
Speaker 2: much is that education worth? You can cram a lot

446
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,920
Speaker 2: of learning into five or seven days, all them out.

447
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,880
Speaker 2: So I think there's a lot of benefits to outfitted

448
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 2: and guided hunts.

449
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,440
Speaker 1: Right Well, yeah, if if, if you maybe you're a

450
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 1: new hunter, or maybe someone who struggled for a long

451
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:21,000
Speaker 1: time to be successful hunting, you can struggle for years,

452
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 1: like learning making all the mistakes. I know, I've made

453
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,119
Speaker 1: all the mistakes, and it takes a long time to

454
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:28,479
Speaker 1: figure that stuff out. And it's like kind of like

455
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,639
Speaker 1: that shortening the learning curve. Really, it's like you go

456
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:35,320
Speaker 1: somebody with that does things right, and you pick that

457
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 1: stuff up, You're like, oh, wow, I was doing this

458
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,800
Speaker 1: wrong the whole time. I never had an idea that

459
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:42,959
Speaker 1: this is a better, a different way to do it,

460
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,439
Speaker 1: you know. So I've heard that a lot from guys too,

461
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 1: they've gone on outfitted hunts.

462
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think it's the older you get. Also,

463
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 2: you realize that we all have kind of a finite

464
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,399
Speaker 2: number of hunts in US. You've got, you know, if

465
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,439
Speaker 2: you're if you're really really lucky, you've got forty years

466
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,239
Speaker 2: thirty forty years of good hunts, you know, where you're

467
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 2: not just sitting on a stump watching for the young guys,

468
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 2: you know. And so if you can shorten that learning

469
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 2: curve five years, ten years, that's five or ten more

470
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 2: potentially more successful years of hunting. And so it is

471
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 2: a good idea. I think it's a good idea if

472
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:17,200
Speaker 2: you have the money.

473
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:31,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, Okay, here's another question for you, what should

474
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:34,399
Speaker 1: a hunter expect on a guided her outfitted hunt? Should

475
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,200
Speaker 1: they how should they prepare for the hunt?

476
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 2: I think what they should expect is these. These would

477
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 2: be a super basic list. Like if I was going

478
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,119
Speaker 2: on a guide hunt. I never been, but if I was,

479
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:52,400
Speaker 2: I would expect a quality camp with quality gear, quality

480
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,440
Speaker 2: whatever is used in the camp. I wanted to be quality.

481
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,640
Speaker 2: You know you, it should be quality gear. I would

482
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 2: expect my guide to be nulled, bligible, friendly, experienced. He

483
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 2: should know the country. He should be in as good

484
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 2: or better shape than I am, and he should be willing.

485
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:16,200
Speaker 2: I think a guy should be willing to impart knowledge

486
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 2: to the guy that he's hunting with, Like you can't

487
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,440
Speaker 2: just hunt tight lip because you're afraid you're going to

488
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:21,879
Speaker 2: teach him and not get him to come back. You

489
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 2: should be teaching those guys, Like we should all do

490
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,400
Speaker 2: that in our life, but especially in that position. That's

491
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:31,640
Speaker 2: what I would expect. I wouldn't expect success if that's

492
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 2: what you're expecting that I'm going on a guide to hunt,

493
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 2: so it's one hundred percent I'm going to kill something.

494
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 2: I think you're misled and if that's your goal, there's

495
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,880
Speaker 2: plenty of there's high fence and private land opportunities where

496
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 2: the success rate is really high. But on public land,

497
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 2: even in the Big three, it's not as easy as

498
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 2: what people think. And so I wouldn't expect success. I

499
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 2: would expect, I would hope for opportunity. I wouldn't I

500
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 2: wouldn't fault the guide if I didn't have opportunity, But

501
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,160
Speaker 2: I should see animals also, That's what I would expect.

502
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 2: How they can prepare, it's pretty tough to say how

503
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 2: they can prepare. Like physically, it's really hard. If you

504
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,639
Speaker 2: live it at sea level or five hundred feet, how

505
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 2: do you prepare to hunt at six thousand? And if

506
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:19,400
Speaker 2: you have no way to climb sixty degree inclines? How

507
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,640
Speaker 2: can you prepare for that? Physically? That's been pretty pretty tough.

508
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 2: But there's other things that you can do. And the

509
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 2: places where I see guys fail is equipment, personal equipment.

510
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 2: There's a lot of examples. I could site boots, clothing, binoculars,

511
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 2: those types of things, your own personal hunting gear, backpacks.

512
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:44,120
Speaker 2: I know they're paying for a guided hunt, but that's

513
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 2: not the time to cheap out on personal gear that's

514
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,479
Speaker 2: going to really affect the quality of your hunt and

515
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 2: the comfort of you during your hunt. And also some

516
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:54,400
Speaker 2: of the like these guys that draw these tags, they've

517
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 2: got twenty five years. You know, when you're within four

518
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,160
Speaker 2: three four five years of drawing that tag, that's it's

519
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 2: a great time to be able to start adding some

520
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 2: gear to your gearbox. Maybe binoculars one year and maybe

521
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 2: you know, boots, clothing, whatever it is that you need.

522
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 2: I think gear is one place where guys end up

523
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,879
Speaker 2: shorting themselves, and ultimately they're the ones that pay. I

524
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 2: think being proficient with your weapon, whether it's archery or

525
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 2: whether it's a rifle, is going to be critical, you'll find.

526
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 2: I've had a lot of guys who, when the time

527
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 2: came to actually execute the shot, they didn't do their part,

528
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 2: and they were like almost heartbroke. And I thought they

529
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 2: were heartbroke because they missed the animal. But they would say, Derek,

530
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 2: you work so hard every single day to get me

531
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 2: within range and to get me a shot, and I

532
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 2: keep screwing it up, and I'm like, don't even think

533
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,719
Speaker 2: twice about it. But you know, they feel that burden

534
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 2: because they realize that you're working really hard for him

535
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,680
Speaker 2: and I think that would be a place where people

536
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:00,200
Speaker 2: should spend some time shooting.

537
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And I always say, you know, I have

538
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 1: to always be shooting your high powered rifle right reps

539
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 1: behind a trigger, a twenty two, like I spent my life.

540
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 1: People probably don't remember know this about me, but I

541
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 1: spent my younger days as a kid. As soon as

542
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,199
Speaker 1: I could hold a gun, I was shooting BB guns

543
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 1: and twenty two's, And I've probably shot about a million

544
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 1: bbes through an old piece of crap bby gun that

545
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 1: didn't even have a stock on it. I would like

546
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 1: improvise and hold that thing up as close as they

547
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 1: could and shoot BB's with that thing. And then I

548
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 1: finally got a twenty two. And I don't know how

549
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 1: many bazillion dollars I spent in twenty two shelves. But man,

550
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 1: I've shot my whole life, and then I shoot high

551
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 1: powered rifles from time to time. But I still shoot

552
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 1: twenty twos a lot. It's just being just being on

553
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 1: the gun. Yeah, I understand.

554
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 2: I think the part that where people fail is not

555
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 2: we think when we talk about shooting, it's just hitting

556
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 2: the target. Yeah, that's really not the biggest issue. The

557
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 2: biggest issue is probably target acquisition, where we see a

558
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 2: bull or deer, whatever it is we're hunting, and I'm saying,

559
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 2: he's right there, but you don't see him, and you're

560
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 2: trying to get him in your scope, but you can't

561
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,239
Speaker 2: even see it because target acquisition. Maybe you've got your

562
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 2: scope turned the magnification all the way up or or

563
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 2: whatever it is, and you need to back out and

564
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 2: then find him and then turn up to whatever you

565
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 2: want to shoot at. But target acquisition is a big deal.

566
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,479
Speaker 2: That's probably you think about it. You might get hopefully

567
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 2: we've spotted a bull, and you have all the time

568
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 2: in the world to set up dial if you're going

569
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 2: to use turrets or whatever. But sometimes it's not that way.

570
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 2: Sometimes you have maybe a five seconds, ten seconds, fifteen

571
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 2: seconds to set up and you've got to be able

572
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 2: to find that animal in that scope and get a shot.

573
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 2: It's not always about hitting it. That's not what I'm

574
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 2: talking about specifically. But target acquisition is a big deal.

575
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 2: And you need to be honest too with your guide.

576
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,479
Speaker 2: When he asked, I don't always see guys shoot, and

577
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 2: so I'll ask him, you know, what are you what's

578
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 2: your comfortable rain, and a lot of guys are west

579
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 2: side guys, and they'll say, well, I never shoot more

580
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 2: than two hundred yards, so I don't really know. And

581
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 2: they'll say, well, I shoot a you know, a two

582
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 2: to three inch group at one hundred, and that's good

583
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 2: enough for the coast range at one hundred yards, so

584
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 2: it's no big deal. But out here, you know, two

585
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 2: inches at one hundred is six inches at three hundred,

586
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 2: and those shots are super common. You know, you shot

587
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 2: five hundred or roughly five hundred today, I guess. And

588
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 2: your rifle that you were using was dialed, it was

589
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 2: set up for it, everything was great. But not everyone

590
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 2: has that rifle, and so people just need to be

591
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 2: honest about their shooting experience, their you know, their rifle,

592
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 2: their capabilities. I need to know if I know that

593
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 2: you can shoot a one inch group at one hundred,

594
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 2: that gives me an idea of our maximum effective range, right,

595
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 2: So it's important to be honest with the with your guide. Yeah,

596
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 2: and I have I have rifles that clients can use

597
00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 2: as well that are dialed and turreted and all that stuff.

598
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 2: It doesn't make sense for a guy to go buy,

599
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 2: you know, a six thousand dollars rifle to go on

600
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 2: this l hunt. That doesn't really make sense. So I

601
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 2: have those available that people use. I just let them

602
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 2: use them. I don't charge them anything for it, but.

603
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: Sure, sure, yeah, And sometimes, like you know, it lets

604
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 1: you know where you need to set them up too.

605
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 1: It's like, well, I can't set them up we're going

606
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 1: to shoot five hundred yards. We need to set up

607
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 1: further down the ridge, or we need to be on

608
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 1: a different ridge, you know, we need to set up

609
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 1: in the right places to shoot from.

610
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 2: So and I don't want to give the impression that

611
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 2: it's always a long range of fair because it's not.

612
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 2: They're sure. The average range, if I think back on

613
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 2: the bulls that I've killed in the Big Three with clients,

614
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 2: is probably one hundred and seventy five to two hundred

615
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 2: and twenty five yards. I'm an archery hunter myself, and

616
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 2: so my nature is to get as close as I can.

617
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 2: There's no reason to shoot at three hundred if we

618
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 2: can get to one hundred and fifty easily. Yeah, And

619
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 2: the potential to miss at one hundred or one hundred

620
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 2: and fifty is a lot smaller than it three four

621
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 2: five and greater.

622
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was watching a video of Ryan Lampers. He's

623
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 1: an excellent hunter. If you talk to him, he doesn't

624
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 1: you know, if you quiz him out, he won't really

625
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 1: tell you a lot of a lot of times and

626
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 1: like when was the last time you missed? And he

627
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 1: doesn't miss very often, hardly at all. But I watched

628
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 1: him on a on a video where he was hunt

629
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 1: mulder hunting and he could have taken a shot and

630
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 1: it was probably I think it was like four hundred

631
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: yards or so. I might have this wrong, but he's like,

632
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 1: I can make that shot, but man, I just really

633
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 1: want to make sure I get this tier. So they

634
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 1: moved up and he snuck up and got he cut

635
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 1: the distance almost in half. Maybe he's not to two

636
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 1: hundred yards, and now it's a chip shot, right, And

637
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 1: it's just like that's sometimes by by just getting up

638
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 1: a little bit closer, it becomes a chip shot and

639
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 1: then you don't miss, right.

640
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 2: So and I think too, it depends on your experience

641
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 2: that for a guy who shoots a lot of shoots

642
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 2: his rifle a lot is intimately familiar with that rifle.

643
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 2: I would say three and four hundred yards off of

644
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 2: a prone rest you know, calm wind conditions, it's almost

645
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 2: a chip shot. With the right rifle and with the

646
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 2: optics and the ballistic apps and range finding binoculars and

647
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 2: all that stuff that we have now, it's almost a

648
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 2: chip shot. But that's to the that's to a guy

649
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 2: who's doing that. To a guy who hunts the west

650
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 2: side in the you know, in that thick brush and

651
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 2: never shoots more than one hundred yards, it's not really

652
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 2: fair to put him behind a gun that can shoot

653
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 2: that and then say shoot five hundred yards. You know,

654
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 2: that's not it's not even truly, that's not even ethical. Yeah, honestly. So,

655
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 2: and that guy shooting your gun in camp for three

656
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 2: shots to make sure he can hit you know, a

657
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 2: one inch group or whatever whatever you think is acceptable,

658
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 2: that's not preparing him to shoot five hundred Right. So

659
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 2: I have guys who you know, you guys can shoot

660
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 2: five hundred yards, and I'm confident that you can do it.

661
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 2: I would let you shoot that. I would, And I

662
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 2: I'm not the guy who's also going to say, you know,

663
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 2: you can't take that shot. I'm not going to let

664
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 2: you do that. I feel like there's a lot of

665
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 2: that heavy handedness and outfitting. You can't shoot this bullet,

666
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 2: you can't shoot this broadhead, you can't. I'm not your babysitter,

667
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,800
Speaker 2: Like my job is to get you within an ethical

668
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:19,400
Speaker 2: range and then be a support to you. And you know,

669
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 2: we've all hunted, and we all know that stuff. Stuff

670
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 2: just happens. Yea, we miss, we make poor hits. We

671
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 2: all kinds of stuff happens, and your guide should be

672
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 2: your support system to help minimize the effects of that.

673
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,800
Speaker 2: But if I felt like a guy could not shoot

674
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,360
Speaker 2: five hundred yards, either because of equipment or because I

675
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 2: saw him shoot, I would just get him closer. Yeah,

676
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 2: I would always push that on him. Yeah, absolutely, Usually

677
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:48,760
Speaker 2: there's no reason we can't get a little bit closer.

678
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 2: You know, we could have cut where you shot your bull.

679
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 2: We could have caught a cut one hundred yards just

680
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 2: by going down the hill further, and it would have

681
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:58,439
Speaker 2: caused some other issues. We would have been shooting maybe

682
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 2: at a different incline, or you know, your support wouldn't

683
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 2: have been prone on the ground. You might have been

684
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 2: shooting off of you know, my tripod with a gun

685
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 2: saddle on it or something which wouldn't be ideal. But

686
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 2: there's options we can get closer. Sure, and if nothing else,

687
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 2: there's another day. We'd rather wait and hunt an elk

688
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 2: the next day than to wound it and lose it.

689
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 2: Nobody wants that over a marginal shot, you know, just

690
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 2: for the sake of saying I did it.

691
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 1: Sure, What's been your very favorite hunt? And in your

692
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 1: years of guiding and outfitting hunters you have, do you

693
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 1: have one that stands out that was like this was

694
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,959
Speaker 1: like probably one of my favoritest hunts ever. I have one.

695
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 2: It wasn't even a paid hunt. I was guiding. I

696
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 2: was guiding an el kunter. I told you guys this

697
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 2: story this weekend. I was guiding an elk hunter in

698
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:54,919
Speaker 2: Mount Emily and we had gone down over a hill

699
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 2: after a bull to get a better look at it

700
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 2: before we committed to shooting it. And so we sat

701
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 2: on that bowl all day. It finally came out at

702
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 2: almost dark and just a smaller bull than what the

703
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:06,719
Speaker 2: client wanted to shoot. So we were just sitting there

704
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 2: kind of killing time, so we didn't blow those elk out.

705
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 2: When we left and I looked down and I see

706
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:16,879
Speaker 2: a guy and his wife and like a teenage daughter

707
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 2: looked like young teenage daughter coming around the hill below us.

708
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:22,879
Speaker 2: And I'm not sure how I knew that they were

709
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 2: spike hunters. I'd hate the stereotype, but I just had

710
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 2: an idea that they were spike hunters, and so I

711
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 2: told that hunter. I said, I'm going to go down

712
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 2: and I'm going to bring the we were. Also when

713
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 2: we were sitting there, there was two spikes above us,

714
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 2: like one hundred and seventy five yards above us, and

715
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:40,319
Speaker 2: I said, I'm going to go down and get that

716
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 2: guy and see if he wants to kill one of

717
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 2: these spikes. I'll help him. And so client wasn't super

718
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 2: happy about it, but we didn't have anything to lose.

719
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 2: We weren't going to shoot that bull. We were done

720
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:52,839
Speaker 2: hunting for the day. So I ran down to the guy,

721
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 2: told him who I was, asked if he had spike tags.

722
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 2: He did or his wife and daughter did. I said,

723
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 2: if you want to kill two spikes right now, I'll

724
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 2: bring you up here and we'll shoot these two. And

725
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:04,399
Speaker 2: so I brought him up to where we were, had

726
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 2: both his daughter and his wife prone, and they shot

727
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,359
Speaker 2: both those spikes. Boom boom. Both of them fell down,

728
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 2: and it was the cool part was it was his

729
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 2: daughter's first big game animal, and it was his wife's

730
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 2: I think, first time hunting. She was a five year

731
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:24,439
Speaker 2: breast cancer survivor. It was like her first time out.

732
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 2: And another cool part was it was their last last

733
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,839
Speaker 2: day of their hunt, and he said, he told his wife,

734
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,720
Speaker 2: We're going to go out on the face of this mountain.

735
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 2: And she said, why are we going to do that?

736
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 2: And he said, oh, I think we might see something

737
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 2: out there. And she said, we're not going to see anything,

738
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 2: and he said, oh, God will provide away. And they

739
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 2: went out there and it just it turned out amazing

740
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 2: that we were able to help them kill that and

741
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:51,840
Speaker 2: it wasn't even a paid thing I had. You know,

742
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 2: we had nothing really to gain from it. That was

743
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 2: what my client said. He was a little bit upset

744
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 2: about it, you know, And I said, we have nothing

745
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:00,880
Speaker 2: to lose and everything to We're going to help this

746
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 2: guy and his family and we're going to feel good

747
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 2: about it. And it's what we should be doing anyway

748
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 2: as sportsman, just helping each other out. We don't have

749
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 2: to gain on every single thing. Sometimes you do things

750
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 2: just for the good of doing them.

751
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, doing the right thing feels.

752
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 2: Good, right, right, And even that guy reached out to

753
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:22,279
Speaker 2: me months and months later and was so appreciative that

754
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 2: it just it fills your heart to do stuff like

755
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:25,760
Speaker 2: that for people.

756
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, well, Matt, I have had the best time

757
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 1: hunting here. I mean, it's been a short it's been

758
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:35,879
Speaker 1: a short trip. I mean I kill on day one.

759
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 1: How great's that? You know? I always say, you know,

760
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 1: maybe it's not a real l hunt until you've had

761
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:44,880
Speaker 1: to have the highest of highs and the lowest of

762
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:46,800
Speaker 1: lows and then get back to the highest of highs.

763
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 1: But we had some highs and lows today with wind

764
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 1: and lots of competition, a lot of other folks out

765
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 1: there in the woods, and then we had a really

766
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 1: big high when I got that bowl.

767
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, just going from we were almost sure we

768
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:02,840
Speaker 2: were going to get a shot at that bull, and

769
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 2: then to have, you know, a bunch of competition from

770
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 2: DIY hunters coming into the same area and no one

771
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 2: really being willing to yield to the other. So we're

772
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:14,880
Speaker 2: all kind of hoping to spot this bull from different

773
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 2: vantage points. But that was a low, Like I know,

774
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 2: all night long, it was a low for all of us.

775
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:22,879
Speaker 2: We were all worried how it was going to turn out,

776
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 2: but it just turned out it wasn't that bull, but

777
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 2: we knew there were other good bulls in that same drainage,

778
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 2: and so we just put ourselves in the best spot

779
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 2: to hopefully have a shot when no one else would

780
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 2: and it just worked out.

781
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:34,919
Speaker 1: Yeah.

782
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 2: But yeah, it was really good to have you guys out.

783
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 2: It was great when Jason first reached out to me

784
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 2: about this tag, when I first drew it, and Jason

785
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 2: was trying to figure out a way to do it

786
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,279
Speaker 2: himself and that didn't pan out. And then he said, well,

787
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 2: what what if Dirk? What if Dirk could do it?

788
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,919
Speaker 2: And I said, man, Dirk would be awesome. Everybody loves

789
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 2: Dirk and Dirk is a great guy. And I feel

790
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:59,840
Speaker 2: like the people that are mad about outfit or tags

791
00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 2: go into I think what they're mad about is that

792
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 2: they just go to someone that has a bunch of money. Yeah,

793
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:06,839
Speaker 2: and we don't like the sound of that. We don't

794
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 2: like the way it feels. It feels elitist, and that

795
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,359
Speaker 2: these guys are just buying a deal. So to have

796
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 2: a regular guy like Dirk get that tag, I don't

797
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:19,839
Speaker 2: I don't understand how anyone could really be mad about that.

798
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:24,360
Speaker 1: I know I'm not. Yeah right, I'm happy about it. Yeah, yeah,

799
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 1: I'm appreciative for the opportunity. And man, i'd like to

800
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 1: say I can't wait to come back, But I don't

801
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 1: know that will ever happen again. But you know, who knows.

802
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 1: You know, maybe maybe maybe I'll get lucky again someday,

803
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 1: maybe I'll draw a tag. But but yeah, it's been fun.

804
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 1: It's beautiful. It's beautiful country up here. They call it

805
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 1: the Blue Mountains, but man, they're sure are a lot

806
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 1: of tamaracks that are bright gold, you know, foll so

807
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,359
Speaker 1: beautiful and a lot of game. We saw a lot

808
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 1: of bulls. We saw like seven bowls last night, and yeah,

809
00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 1: it was it's been fun. It's been fun. I I'm

810
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 1: that's that's the bad part about pulling trigger. The good

811
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:04,759
Speaker 1: part and the bad part. The good part is like, yes,

812
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:07,839
Speaker 1: I got one. The bad part is it's over. It's

813
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 1: over now, I don't I mean, we could have we

814
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 1: could have spent more time hunting, and it's it's not

815
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 1: easy haunting them. Like we sat there and about froze

816
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 1: to death today the wind and it was cold and

817
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 1: the wind just cut and then tonight with the weather

818
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 1: coming in, I could I can tell the rest of

819
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 1: the week would not have been easy.

820
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:28,879
Speaker 2: This was the best day to kill if you're going

821
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 2: to Yeah.

822
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 1: But but we would have we would have dug in

823
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 1: and enjoyed every bit of it and suffered through all

824
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 1: the hardships. And but that's hounting, right, that's the that's

825
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:38,799
Speaker 1: the fun part about hunting. Yeah.

826
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, And if it if you can look at a

827
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 2: bull and you even if it's just in that moment,

828
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 2: you think, man, that's this is a great situation. Sometimes

829
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:52,240
Speaker 2: it's the guy's hunting with his son, his father, whatever

830
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:54,439
Speaker 2: it is, and it's not. Sometimes the hunt isn't about

831
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:56,759
Speaker 2: the size of the antlers. It's just about the It

832
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 2: might be the stock, it might be the country, it

833
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 2: might be the company. Yeah, it's just a lot of things.

834
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,719
Speaker 2: So I wish people wouldn't get hung up on the

835
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:08,320
Speaker 2: size of the antler so much because I think it

836
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 2: cheats us out of the experience really, And so yeah,

837
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 2: hopefully hopefully you're happy with that bowl. I'm happy for you. Yeah,

838
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 2: And it's beautiful, bul It was a great hunt, good

839
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 2: time in camp, you know, it's great. I'd have you

840
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 2: guys come back next year in a second. Yeah, if

841
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:27,919
Speaker 2: I could get you to cut away and come help

842
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 2: me on that sheep hunt this week, that'd be great.

843
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 2: Your wife already thinks you're gone for a week, it

844
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 2: would be great.

845
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 1: You could probably just like not send her any pictures

846
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 1: and be like, yeah, yeah, the hunt went the distance.

847
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 1: Hant honey, not knowing we want sheep hunting. That'd be fun.

848
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:47,439
Speaker 2: Go help on that, right, Well, anytime you got time, yep,

849
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 2: I'll put you in camp cooking and washing dishes.

850
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, that'd be good too. That'd be good too. We've

851
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 1: had good food here so far, so it's been great.

852
00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 1: So tell everyone how they can find you on social

853
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 1: on website and stuff.

854
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 2: So my website is Eastern organ Outfitters dot com. I

855
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:11,840
Speaker 2: have Instagram, Facebook, it's also Eastern organ Outfitters. Super easy

856
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:15,479
Speaker 2: to find. You could google it. It's easy to find.

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00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 2: And I'm fairly active on social media. I kind of

858
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 2: when I get into a hunt, I don't post a

859
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 2: whole lot. I'm more collecting content that I can share

860
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 2: later when I have time to breathe. But you know,

861
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:29,759
Speaker 2: this is a busy time of year. But yeah, you

862
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 2: can get a hold of me on Facebook, Instagram or

863
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 2: my website.

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00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,319
Speaker 1: That's awesome. Well, thanks a lot, Derek, appreciate you having us,

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00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 1: having us as a guest in your camp. Thanks for

866
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 1: coming on the podcast, and I look forward to seeing

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00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 1: what the rest of your hunters do this fall. Yep.

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00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 2: Thanks, I appreciate you guys.

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00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:46,919
Speaker 1: Yep, keep back

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00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:03,319
Speaker 2: Most and the break the time