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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff Mom Never told You from how stupports

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Speaker 1: dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristin

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Speaker 1: and I'm Caroline, and I am surprised we haven't done

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Speaker 1: this podcast sooner, Caroline, indeed, because we're talking about none

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Speaker 1: other than Susan B. Anthony. That's right, one of the

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Speaker 1: mothers of the women's rights movement. Um, what's interesting reading

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Speaker 1: about Susan B. Anthony is just how incredibly single minded

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Speaker 1: she was. I mean, she was a an advocate and

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Speaker 1: an evangelist for for women's rights, but kind of pretty

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Speaker 1: much at the expense of every other social movement that

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Speaker 1: was happening in her day. Yeah, I feel like when

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Speaker 1: we hear about Susan B. Anthony, it's in very broad

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Speaker 1: terms of she's this amazing figure in women's history, but

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Speaker 1: we aren't offered many of the details. And there are

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Speaker 1: so many fascinating details, and we're talking about her this

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Speaker 1: time of year, in particular because her birthday was February fifteenth.

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Speaker 1: She was born in eighteen twenty in Adams, Massachusetts, and

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Speaker 1: she never married, never had kids, And I mean, I

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Speaker 1: don't understand how she would have had kids, because how

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Speaker 1: she even had time to do all of the things

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Speaker 1: that she did astounds me because not only was she

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Speaker 1: an advocate for women's rights and voting rights, she was

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Speaker 1: also an advocate for reform and labor education, voting, dress, marriage, divorce. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And you know, talking about her being single minded, Kristen

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Speaker 1: and I have talked about dress reform on the podcast

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Speaker 1: before and women wearing pants and so on and so forth,

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Speaker 1: and good old Susan b actually gave it a shot.

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Speaker 1: She she tried to wear reform dress for a while,

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Speaker 1: but the negativity, the the abuse that she endured for

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Speaker 1: for wearing these new fangled clothes, she was like, screw this.

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Speaker 1: Everybody's seeing my clothes and not hearing my message. So

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Speaker 1: Susan Anthony of all people, gave up on dress reform

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Speaker 1: because she was like, no, you were gonna hear what

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Speaker 1: I have to say about women's rights. Yeah. And because

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Speaker 1: of that single minded determination, she also clashed with other

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Speaker 1: feminists or suffragists of the day, especially one woman named

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Speaker 1: Lily Blake, who was highly instrumental in organizing the suffrage

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Speaker 1: movement in pushing for women's rights to vote. But you

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Speaker 1: probably haven't heard the name Lily Blake because the thing

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Speaker 1: about the history of women's suffrage in the United States

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Speaker 1: is that Susan B. Anthony made a lot of it. Yes,

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Speaker 1: but she also wrote it to Yeah, and so she

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Speaker 1: was basically like a pr master Susan B. Anthony was.

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Speaker 1: I mean, she wrote, you know, history of Women's Suffrage

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Speaker 1: that kind of presented it all as one seamless integrated

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Speaker 1: move movement. Uh, you know that just carried all women

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Speaker 1: as one with it, and that's not really the course. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, as a study that we found in the

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Speaker 1: Canadian Review of American Studies points out, because Susan B.

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Speaker 1: Anthony was so masterful and effective at sort of controlling

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Speaker 1: this narrative of that nineteenth century women's movement, that the

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Speaker 1: contributions of women like Lily Blake, Lucy Stone, uh, Matilda

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Speaker 1: Joscelyn Engage and others were, as we minimized to the

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Speaker 1: point of not really being included at all. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: there were a lot of women, even her very close

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Speaker 1: partner in crime, Elizabeth Katie Stanton, a lot of women

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Speaker 1: who were thinking like, well, no, I also want to

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Speaker 1: advocate for other social movements. I want African Americans to

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Speaker 1: have the right to vote. I want them to be

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Speaker 1: on equal footing. I want African American men and women

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Speaker 1: to be equal with white men and women, but Susan B.

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Speaker 1: Anthony was not having it, to the point where she

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Speaker 1: did not even agree with the passage of the fifteenth

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Speaker 1: Amendment because it did not support women's right to vote.

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Speaker 1: But let's not get ahead of ourselves, because there is

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Speaker 1: a lot to talk about. But let's first talk about

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Speaker 1: where Susan B. Anthony came from, because she has interesting roots.

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Speaker 1: So she was born, as I mentioned in eighteen twenty two,

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Speaker 1: Quaker abolitionists, so abolition was very much in her blood right,

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Speaker 1: and they would have all sorts of anti slavery friends

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Speaker 1: and family coming over to gather at her parents farm.

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Speaker 1: Even people like Frederick Douglas and William Lloyd Garrison came

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Speaker 1: by for these discussions. Yeah. And the first thing that

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Speaker 1: she did when she grew up was become a teacher,

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Speaker 1: and that was really when she started becoming active with

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Speaker 1: advocating for reform, because it was through teaching in the

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Speaker 1: late eighteen forties and into the eighteen fifties that she

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Speaker 1: started advocating for things like co education, equal education opportunities

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Speaker 1: regardless of people's race, better pay for female teachers. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and she argued that all schools, colleges, and universities should

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Speaker 1: open their doors to women and previously enslaved African Americans.

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Speaker 1: And during this time in the eighteen forties and fifties,

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Speaker 1: while she was head of the girls department at a school,

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Speaker 1: she joined the Daughters of Temperance, which was a group

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Speaker 1: that tried to draw attention to the effects of drunkenness

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Speaker 1: on families and campaigned for stronger liquor laws. And in

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Speaker 1: eighteen forty eight she actually delivered her first public speech

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Speaker 1: for them. But as well see, even though she was

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Speaker 1: heavily involved with them, she kind of wasn't into that

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Speaker 1: movement wholeheartedly either. Yeah. And it's in eighteen fifty one

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Speaker 1: that Amelia Bloomer, who speaking of dress reform, Amelia Bloomer

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Speaker 1: of Bloomers Fame, introduces Susan B. Anthony to Elizabeth Katie Stanton,

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Speaker 1: and those two, like you said, they become essentially partners

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Speaker 1: in crime in a way of organizing the suffrage movement

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Speaker 1: and protesting against men who wouldn't allow them to speak.

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Speaker 1: And they really join up forces to promote the women's

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Speaker 1: movement and abolition and Temperance for a little while at least,

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Speaker 1: right And in eighteen fifty two, Anthony attendts her first

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Speaker 1: women's rights convention in Syracuse, the famous Meeting in Syracuse,

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Speaker 1: but uh, things don't go so well. Uh moving down

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Speaker 1: the road. In eighteen fifty three, Uh, Susan B. Anthony

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Speaker 1: was refused the right to speak at the state Convention

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Speaker 1: of the Sons of Temperance in Albany, So she and

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Speaker 1: buddy Elizabeth Katie Stanton founded the Women's State Temperance Society,

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Speaker 1: the first temperance group organized by and four women. Because

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Speaker 1: she's like, Okay, hello, women are part of this movement,

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Speaker 1: to we're a big part of this movement, and you're

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Speaker 1: not even gonna let us speak. Okay, We'll go over

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Speaker 1: here and start our own group. Yeah. And I feel

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Speaker 1: like that formation of the Women's State Temperance Society, that

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Speaker 1: rebellion and movement away from the Sons of Temperance is

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Speaker 1: one of those first really significant milestones of the suffrage movement.

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Speaker 1: And it's it's kind of that activism that starts to

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Speaker 1: really fuel this movement for getting women the right to vote.

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Speaker 1: And at the same time too, she's also heavily involved

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Speaker 1: in the abolition movement. For instance, in eighteen fifty six,

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Speaker 1: she becomes an agent for the American Anti Slavery Society,

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Speaker 1: and with that she starts to encounter the first real

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Speaker 1: public opposition to her and her her activism. For instance,

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Speaker 1: she ended up being hanged in effigy and her image

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Speaker 1: was dragged through the streets. Things were thrown at her.

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Speaker 1: Not everybody was happy about s b A supporting abolition,

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Speaker 1: but that's certainly didn't discourage her from supporting the cause

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Speaker 1: of abolishing slavery and having equal rights for African American citizens.

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Speaker 1: For in since in eighteen sixty three, she along with

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth Katie Stanton, organized the Women's National Loyal League, which

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Speaker 1: petitioned for the thirteen Amendment. And as this anti slavery

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Speaker 1: movement is happening, we also at the same time have

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Speaker 1: progress being made in terms of women's rights as well,

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Speaker 1: at least on the state level. Right in eighteen sixty

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Speaker 1: with the weight of Susan Anthony behind it, the New

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Speaker 1: York Married Women's Property Bill was enacted, which allowed married

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Speaker 1: women to own property, keep their own wages, and have

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Speaker 1: child custody. And it actually became a model for women's

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Speaker 1: property laws in other states. And this, uh, this social movement,

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Speaker 1: the social success proceeded in eighteen sixty eight, UH the

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Speaker 1: publication of the Revolution, which was a newspaper that Anthony

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Speaker 1: published with Stanton, and the masthead of the publication said

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Speaker 1: men their rights and nothing more, Women their rights and

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Speaker 1: nothing less. Yeah. And so what you see throughout the

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Speaker 1: eighteen sixties is Anthony and Elizabeth Katie Stanton really splitting

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Speaker 1: their time between abolition, work, labor reform, women's rights. Um.

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Speaker 1: For instance, on the labor front, they were in New

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Speaker 1: York advocating for eight hour work days and equal pay

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Speaker 1: for equal work, which, okay, the City of the Union

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Speaker 1: was very recent and President Obama was saying equal pay

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Speaker 1: for equal work. We're still talking about that, um, but

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Speaker 1: pretty revolutionary for the time to be saying that in

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Speaker 1: eighteen sixty eight. And Anthony was encouraging women who were

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Speaker 1: working in sewing and printing in New York to form

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Speaker 1: their own unions because at the time they were barred

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Speaker 1: from men's unions, right, and then men were not really

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Speaker 1: too pleased with her involvement as a delicate to the

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Speaker 1: National Labor Conference in eighteen sixty eight she persuaded the

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Speaker 1: Committee on Female Labor to call for votes for women

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Speaker 1: uh and equal pay for equal work, but the men

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Speaker 1: at this conference deleted her reference to the vote. Yeahs um.

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Speaker 1: But after the Civil War and by the end of

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Speaker 1: the eighteen sixties, we really see this shift and that

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Speaker 1: real emergence of the single mindedness of Susan B. Anthony

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Speaker 1: with that sole focus toward suffrage. Because after the Civil

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Speaker 1: War she essentially shifts from the anti slavery movement. After

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Speaker 1: the fourteenth and fifteenth amendments granted equal rights to African

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Speaker 1: Americans and voting rights to all citizens regardless of race,

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Speaker 1: but not as some politicians had promised her, not regardless

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Speaker 1: of sex, so women still couldn't vote, right. So she

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Speaker 1: at this point, along with a lot of other suffragists,

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Speaker 1: were kind of throwing their hands at in the air,

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Speaker 1: saying seriously, like, we worked for all of this and um.

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Speaker 1: At this point in eighteen sixty and you have the

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Speaker 1: suffrage movement splitting, going one way with Anthony and Stanton's

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Speaker 1: National Woman's Suffrage Association gunning for an amendment for women

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Speaker 1: to vote, and then you have the American Woman's Suffrage

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Speaker 1: Association taking a state by state strategy, and basically Anthony

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Speaker 1: and Stanton's group was considered a radical organization that did

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Speaker 1: not support the fifteenth Amendment on the ground on the

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Speaker 1: grounds that did enfranchised black men but not white or

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Speaker 1: black women. Then you have the more moderate AWSA formed

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Speaker 1: by Lucy Stone and Julia Ward Howe. It was basically like,

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Speaker 1: let's let's try to just make some gradual movements. Let's,

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Speaker 1: you know, not try to tackle everything all at once.

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Speaker 1: Let's get this amendment pass so that black men can vote,

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Speaker 1: and then we'll we'll have our day. And Anthony's like, nah, well,

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Speaker 1: because around that time you have Wyoming becoming the first

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Speaker 1: territory to grant women the right to vote, and you

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Speaker 1: have movement in places like New York where you were

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Speaker 1: at least having like piecemeal rights being grant women with

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Speaker 1: that married Women's Property Bill. And what came to mind

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Speaker 1: when I was reading about this was arguments over um,

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Speaker 1: how best to advocate for gay rights, because at first

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Speaker 1: some have said that for gay marriage, at least, the

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Speaker 1: best is to have a nationwide amendment. But really what's

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Speaker 1: been happening now is more of obviously the state by

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Speaker 1: state approach. And then Finally, with one fell swoop, you

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Speaker 1: have a national amendment. And Stanton's and Anthony's National Women's

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Speaker 1: Suffrage Association has been painted as this radical group. But

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Speaker 1: this is also where uncomfortable issues about women's rights versus

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Speaker 1: enfranchisement for black people first comes up, because the fact

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Speaker 1: of the matter is in the process of splitting away

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Speaker 1: and really pushing for this nationwide amendment and being so

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Speaker 1: outraged over the passage of the fifteenth the moment which

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Speaker 1: granted black men, and exclusively black men, not women, the vote.

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Speaker 1: Stanton and Anthony did accept funding from UH some outright

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Speaker 1: racist UM politicians who were similarly opposed to enfranchisement, but

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Speaker 1: for very different reasons, and by different I mean racist,

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Speaker 1: yeah right, yeah, exactly, And this is UM. Back in

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Speaker 1: eighteen sixties seven, when suffrage for both women and blacks

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Speaker 1: failed in Kansas, Anthony and Stanton basically aligned themselves with

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Speaker 1: the openly racist leaders of the Kansas Democratic Party who

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Speaker 1: opposed enfranchising black voters, and these tactics this is coming

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Speaker 1: from the National Women's History Museum. Such tactics set the

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Speaker 1: stage for UH Stanton's assertions that women merited the vote

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Speaker 1: more than did freed slaves and recent immigrants. So it's

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's not all entirely a clean and clear

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Speaker 1: and pure movement, but speak king of it not being

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Speaker 1: a clean, clear cut movement. I mean we we also

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Speaker 1: don't hear very much in the history women's rights in

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Speaker 1: the United States about how suffrage underwent this major rift

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Speaker 1: that was largely due to that passage of the fifteenth Amendment,

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Speaker 1: and we need to remember that in addition to yes,

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Speaker 1: the important work that Susan Anthony and Katie Stanton were doing,

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Speaker 1: you still have Lucy Stone, Henry Blackwell, and Julia Ward

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Speaker 1: how with their American Women's Suffrage Association, who are supporting

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Speaker 1: the fifteenth Amendment and also pushing for women's rights, and

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Speaker 1: the National Women's History Museum mentions how historian Rosalind Turberg

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Speaker 1: Penn argues that black women at the time were more

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Speaker 1: drawn to the a w s A than Susan B.

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Speaker 1: Anthony's n w s A because the A w s

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Speaker 1: A supported the enfranchisement of black men. Now, if you

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Speaker 1: talk to you know, if you if you dig into

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Speaker 1: issues of vote rights for black women as well, I

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Speaker 1: mean you do have so general truth In eighteen sixties seven,

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Speaker 1: similarly saying you know, she the ain't I a woman

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Speaker 1: like I feel as if I have as much of

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Speaker 1: a right as a man. There were there were also,

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Speaker 1: I mean, they were also having to come to terms

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Speaker 1: with the fact that still they couldn't vote right. But

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Speaker 1: it's difficult to think about being opposed to the fifte amendment,

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Speaker 1: you know. I mean, I think Anthony was so I can't,

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Speaker 1: I cannot. I'm not speaking for Susan Anthony. Let me

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Speaker 1: preface that, but um, I mean she was. I almost

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Speaker 1: think that she was so single minded, as we've said

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Speaker 1: that it's like anything anything, uh, you know, would would

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Speaker 1: have been seen as standing in the way of women's

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Speaker 1: right to vote. I mean, she herself, Susan Anthony said,

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Speaker 1: I will cut off this right arm of mine before

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Speaker 1: I will ever work or demand the ballot for the

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Speaker 1: negro and not the woman. Yeah, I mean. And and

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Speaker 1: the fact matter is to this in in the late

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Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds, this is not a time of perfect, you know,

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Speaker 1: race relations by any stretch in the United States. There

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Speaker 1: was a lot of segregation that would continue within the

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Speaker 1: suffrage movement, where you have Mary Church Harrell as president of,

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Speaker 1: for instance, the National Association of Colored Women that were

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Speaker 1: sort of organizing in their own way for rights, but

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Speaker 1: there would be larger events that would happen where some

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Speaker 1: suff white suffrage groups would ask for black suffrage groups

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Speaker 1: to say stay separate, to not march next to them,

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Speaker 1: to not integrate, which is so unfortunate to think about,

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Speaker 1: but it's something that that definitely happened that we have

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Speaker 1: to acknowledge absolutely. So we were just talking about, you know,

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Speaker 1: all of the divisions that are in this movement. That

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Speaker 1: the women's suffrage movement was by no means one smooth,

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Speaker 1: monolithic event that happened during this period. And we want

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Speaker 1: to get into some more of what Susan B. Anthony

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Speaker 1: was up to in this era, for instance, you know,

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Speaker 1: getting arrested. Um. But first we're going to take a

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Speaker 1: quick break and now back to the podcast. So we've

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Speaker 1: established that there was a major rift that happened within

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Speaker 1: the suffrage movement surrounding the fifteenth Amendment and the enfranchisement

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Speaker 1: of black men and sort of black women, but not

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Speaker 1: really because at the time still women didn't have the vote,

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Speaker 1: and that was the one thing that mattered to Susan B. Anthony.

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Speaker 1: By this time, in the early eighteen sixties, was that

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Speaker 1: women couldn't vote, and she was going to do everything

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Speaker 1: that she could to change that, including getting arrested. Right

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Speaker 1: in eighteen seventy two, Uh, Susan B. Anthony was arrested

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Speaker 1: along with twelve other women, including three of her sisters.

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Speaker 1: That's a very good supportive family when she went to

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Speaker 1: Rochester to cast a ballot. But the thing is, some

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Speaker 1: really weird stuff happened. It wasn't as cut and dry

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Speaker 1: as woman goes to vote, woman gets arrested for voting,

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Speaker 1: woman goes home with a slap on the wrist. No,

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Speaker 1: she actually ran into a lot of angry people along

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Speaker 1: the way. So it's a little screwy though. What happened

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Speaker 1: because Anthony essentially argued to election inspectors that by virtue

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Speaker 1: of the fourteenth Amendment, women had the right to vote

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Speaker 1: in federal elections. It was just not necessarily a state

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Speaker 1: by state right. And so finally, probably just to shut

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Speaker 1: her up, the inspectors gave in and registered Anthony and

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Speaker 1: her sisters and the other women, and so on November

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Speaker 1: five they go and they cast their ballots. But then

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Speaker 1: November eighteenth, it takes a while for this to happen.

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Speaker 1: A U s Deputy Marshall shows up at Anthony's house

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Speaker 1: and arrests her for voting illegally. And Anthony probably wanted

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Speaker 1: this to happen, I would say, because she wanted this

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Speaker 1: to travel all the way up to the Supreme Court,

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Speaker 1: because us the outcome of this case could result in

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Speaker 1: what would now be the Nineteenth Amendment. Right. And so

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Speaker 1: Anthony ends up getting reigned with other women and the

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Speaker 1: election inspectors who had allowed her to vote. She refused

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Speaker 1: to pay bail and applied for habeas corpus, but her

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Speaker 1: lawyer paid the bill, keeping the case from the Supreme Court.

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Speaker 1: So all this stuff is happening, and she's like, no,

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Speaker 1: dang it, I'm trying to do something here, and every

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Speaker 1: step of the way, everyone involved was being like no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: let's just sweep this under the rug so that you know,

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Speaker 1: you don't get to vote ever. Well, and the judge

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Speaker 1: in the case even instructed the all male jury to

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Speaker 1: go ahead and give a guilty verdict. It was pointless

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Speaker 1: for them to be there, which legal scholars now you know,

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Speaker 1: say that would never happen today. That's horrendously illegal. But

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Speaker 1: the judge was just like, oh my god, no, okay,

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Speaker 1: just it's going to be a guilty, verdict guilty. And

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Speaker 1: he fined her one hundred dollars and made her pay

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Speaker 1: courtroom fees, but when she didn't pay, he didn't imprison her,

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Speaker 1: therefore denying her the chance to appeal. But I love

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Speaker 1: this though. There was a letter that Anthony wrote to

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth Katie Stanton after she cast her, but before all

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Speaker 1: of this stuff started happening, and she wrote, well, I

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Speaker 1: have been and gone and done it. She was clearly

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Speaker 1: really proud of what had happened, cause she thought all this,

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Speaker 1: you know, this ripple effect was going to happen, granting

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Speaker 1: women the right to vote, and how frustrating that must

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Speaker 1: have been for her. Even though in the as far

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Speaker 1: as the national conversation regarding women's suffrage, it did have

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Speaker 1: an impact because she became depicted as the woman who dared.

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Speaker 1: There was this political cartoon of her um showing that,

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Speaker 1: you know, she was this pioneer who was going to

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Speaker 1: vote no matter what, and it got people talking, it

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Speaker 1: really did, and and she was not at any point

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Speaker 1: ready to give up. I mean, this is a woman

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Speaker 1: who went before Congress every year from eighteen six to

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Speaker 1: ask for passion passage of a suffrage amendment. I mean

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Speaker 1: she was committed, and in eighteen seventy seven she managed

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Speaker 1: to gather petitions from twenty six states with ten thousand signatures,

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Speaker 1: but Congress wasn't hearing about it. So ten years later,

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Speaker 1: not an easy ten years, but ten years later, in

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Speaker 1: eighteen eighties seven, the previously separate suffrage organizations in w

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Speaker 1: s A and AWSA merged into the National American Woman's

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Speaker 1: Suffrage Association, with Stanton as president and Susan B. Anthony

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Speaker 1: as VP. And I can only assume reading all that

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Speaker 1: I read about uh Susan B. Anthony's personality, I can

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Speaker 1: only imagine that she was sort of like, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to make you president, Like I have a feeling she

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Speaker 1: wouldn't stand to be VP if she didn't want to

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Speaker 1: be VP. Yeah, no, I And and she really did

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Speaker 1: rule with an iron fist. She didn't take very kindly

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Speaker 1: to other women who wanted to be as outspoken as

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Speaker 1: she was. I think she really enjoyed being the figurehead

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Speaker 1: of this movement. There are even times when she belittled

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Speaker 1: the work of Elizabeth Katie Stanton because it wasn't specifically

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Speaker 1: in line with her vision for how the women's rights

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Speaker 1: movement should go right, and she disagreed a lot with

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Speaker 1: Lily Blake, who we mentioned earlier, who was kind of

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Speaker 1: trying to say, listen, Susan, Suze, Suze, baby, these petitions

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Speaker 1: aren't maybe the most effective and efficient use of our resources.

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Speaker 1: But you know, Susan Anthony had a mission and a

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Speaker 1: vision and she was going to accomplish things the way

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Speaker 1: she wanted to accomplish them. And really, no matter the

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Speaker 1: good work that women like Lily Blake accomplished, she she

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Speaker 1: didn't care well. And the thing about it is too

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Speaker 1: she did two women like Lily Blake and others who

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Speaker 1: she simply did not want to hear from at conventions.

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Speaker 1: She did to them the same that was done to

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Speaker 1: her and Katie Stanton at that Men's Temperance convention so

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Speaker 1: long ago when they were refused the right to speak.

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Speaker 1: I mean, she wouldn't I don't think she outright wouldn't

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Speaker 1: let Lily Blake speak, but she kept her time so

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Speaker 1: short it was almost pointless for her to go up there.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean it's I guess in order to

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Speaker 1: be such a powerful leader at that time, you kind

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Speaker 1: of had to be that ruthless maybe, but I do

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Speaker 1: think that her memory has been Whitewash is just sort

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Speaker 1: of some trio blazing state for women. Whereas she was,

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Speaker 1: she was not always a friend to all women, right exactly.

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Speaker 1: And I mean I think you'd be hard pressed to

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Speaker 1: find any social movement whose leaders are purely you know,

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Speaker 1: clear of conscience all the time. But you know, I

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Speaker 1: think it's interesting to delve into this. Uh. She did,

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Speaker 1: you know, eventually take over as president of the in

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Speaker 1: a ws A after Katie stanton Um and during the

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Speaker 1: eighteen nineties, we're kind of on the down slope of

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Speaker 1: her career. She's as she's getting older, she kept that

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Speaker 1: focus on education. I mean, you know, talk about a

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Speaker 1: single minded focus. Maybe when she felt more comfortable she

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Speaker 1: put a little bit more focused back into education. She did,

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Speaker 1: uh serve on the board of trustees of Rochester's State

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Speaker 1: Industrial School UM campaigning for co educational and equal treatment

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Speaker 1: and opportunities for boys and girls. She did raise also

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Speaker 1: fifty thou dollars in pledges to ensure the admittance of

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Speaker 1: women to the University of Rochester, which is amazing. And

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Speaker 1: this whole time she's working on the history of Women's Suffrage,

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Speaker 1: the book co authored by her and Elizabeth Katie Stanton

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Speaker 1: and Matilda Joscely Engage. But I feel like must have

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Speaker 1: felt like a total third wheel, because you would really

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Speaker 1: never hear her name mentioned. Um. But this was the

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Speaker 1: publication of this book in nineteen o too was significant

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Speaker 1: because it's sort of cemented the fact that history would

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Speaker 1: always look upon her. This was this was her writing

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Speaker 1: the historical record of her leadership essentially. Um. And not

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Speaker 1: to say that she didn't do so much, um, but

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Speaker 1: it is it is kind of um. It's it's telling

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Speaker 1: that she certainly wanted to write that book and to

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Speaker 1: be that heavily involved with its authorship. Um. But even

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Speaker 1: outside of the United States, for instance, in nineteen o four,

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Speaker 1: she presided over the International Council of Women in Berlin

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Speaker 1: and became an honorary president of Carrie Chapman Cat's International

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Speaker 1: Women's Suffrage Alliance. So even during her time, obviously by contemporaries,

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Speaker 1: she was recognized as the woman right And I think

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Speaker 1: I do want to say, I think it's interesting that

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Speaker 1: you know, she she did work so hard to gloss

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Speaker 1: over the riffs in the suffrage movement because I mean

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Speaker 1: think about today and people talk about women catfighting and

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Speaker 1: in fighting. You, oh, women are always women can't be

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Speaker 1: friends with each other, women can't trust each other, all

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Speaker 1: of that stuff. I think, in her own way, in

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Speaker 1: her own time, Susan Anthony was trying to be like, look,

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Speaker 1: we've got this. Yeah, it's okay, we're not fighting. We

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Speaker 1: are all working together for the same purpose. Granted she

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Speaker 1: might not have gone about it in the most delicate way,

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Speaker 1: but I think in her own way, she was trying

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Speaker 1: to make it seem like the strongest possible movement. Well,

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Speaker 1: and what's so startling too when you read about these

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Speaker 1: sometimes glossed over details about the women's rights movements, this

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Speaker 1: early suffrage movement, these first feminists, is that a lot

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Speaker 1: of the issues in the in fighting that you hear

428
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 1: about in terms of inclusivity, racial diversity, intersectionality. To toss

429
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 1: out a word that Susan B. Anthony I'm sure never used,

430
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 1: it's all the same thing. We're still having these same conversations.

431
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,919
Speaker 1: Why is that? Why can't why? Why? Why? I just

432
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 1: want to know that follow up podcast why? Because it's

433
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 1: like history continues to repeat itself in different ways, whether

434
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 1: it's through um a book about the history of women's suffrage,

435
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 1: or on Twitter, you know, right, I mean, I think

436
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 1: you have women across the ages who are trying to

437
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,879
Speaker 1: break out on their own and get what they see

438
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 1: as the rightful end to their efforts, you know, whatever,

439
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:32,120
Speaker 1: that rightful end maybe you know, obviously Susan B. Anthony

440
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 1: was not campaigning for everyone's rights. Yeah, she was campaigning

441
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 1: for what she found to be the most important. And

442
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 1: it wasn't until after her death she died in nineteen

443
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:46,119
Speaker 1: o six. It wasn't until fourteen years later that the

444
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: nineteenth Amendment, known as the Susan B. Anthony Amendment, was ratified,

445
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 1: which and I mean that's of course, you know, going

446
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: back to the fact that there were so many other

447
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,199
Speaker 1: women involved and it was named after Susan Anthony. But

448
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 1: it is like, you know, this woman just you know,

449
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:08,160
Speaker 1: spent every moment of her life living and breathing this

450
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: and then to not see it come to fruition, you know,

451
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:13,919
Speaker 1: that's you know, well, think about the only time she

452
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 1: ever voted was in eighteen seventy two, when she was

453
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: subsequently arrested. Right, that's gotta be That's it's incredible to

454
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 1: think about But also I'm not and I'm not trying

455
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,679
Speaker 1: this on s B. A. But even though the amendment

456
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:35,239
Speaker 1: is called Susan B. Anthony Amendment, Elizabeth Katie Stanton wrote it,

457
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: you know, it's just yet again. I mean, but hey,

458
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 1: she she was the figurehead for better or worse. Yeah,

459
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 1: I mean, eventually, I guess for better. But what is um,

460
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 1: what is concerning though these days, is how Susan B.

461
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 1: Anthony's legacy has been co opted by more conservative groups. Um.

462
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 1: She's been used as a figurehead of sorts for anti

463
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: abortion groups. Actually, for some people who say, oh, well,

464
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 1: you know what, Susan Anthony today would not stand for

465
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 1: the same platforms as you know, self described feminist would

466
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 1: in the twenty one century. Right and groups like Feminists

467
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 1: for Life of America. UM, kind of base this notion

468
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: on quotes like it's important to help bring about a

469
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 1: better state of things for mothers generally, so they're unborn,

470
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 1: little ones could not be willed away from them. Uh.

471
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 1: They also based it on articles published in the publication

472
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 1: The Revolution calling abortion child murder or anti natal infanticide. Um.

473
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 1: But uh, there was a conversation that we saw with

474
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 1: debor Hughes, who's the president and CEO of the Susan B.

475
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 1: Anthony Museum, and she's saying, look, guys, you can't take

476
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: a modern day discussion about anti abortion or pro life,

477
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 1: for pro choice, or any of these things and apply

478
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 1: them to a woman who lived in the nineteenth century,

479
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: because the truth is that abortion today an abortion in

480
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 1: the nineteenth century were two very different things, and the

481
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 1: conversations were different well, and even the perception of pregnancy

482
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 1: was different. It wasn't until much later, until probably the

483
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 1: fourth or fifth month of pregnancy, when the so called

484
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 1: quickening happens, when you could first feel a baby's movements,

485
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: that you were actually considered pregnant, whereas today, obviously you

486
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 1: can know from days after conception, right, and so back

487
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 1: in the day, it was more an issue of the

488
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: fact that abortion was what we would call now late

489
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,479
Speaker 1: term abortion, and it was so dangerous. There were not

490
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 1: nearly the medical advances that we have today, and so

491
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: it was more an effort to protect women and their

492
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 1: health than it was necessarily to talk about the fetus.

493
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 1: And as far as children being willed away from families,

494
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 1: that wasn't an abortion reference at all. Really, it had

495
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: to do with the fact that fathers at the time

496
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 1: we're basically able to sell their children into indentured servitude

497
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 1: and the mother couldn't do anything about it. Yeah, I mean,

498
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 1: women had absolutely no rights over anything, whether it be

499
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 1: property or if they were to get a divorce, there

500
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: would be no question over who would get child custody.

501
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 1: You know, they had nothing at the time. So that

502
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: was more a conversation regarding needing more rights for women

503
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 1: rather than outlawing abortion right. And Susan B. Anthony never

504
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 1: advocated for the criminalization of abortion, um and that that's

505
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 1: a topic that actually was discussed in her day and

506
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 1: she never hopped on that train at all. Single minded again,

507
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 1: so it is important then to you know, keep an

508
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 1: ear out if you hear about organizations like Feminist for

509
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 1: Life in America or the Susan B. Anthony List, which

510
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 1: is dedicated to getting a pro life candidates elected that

511
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 1: they are, you know, using the Susan B. Anthony name

512
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 1: in a way that she probably would not approve of.

513
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, thinking about Susan B. Anthony, I don't

514
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 1: think that she would want her I mean unless she

515
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 1: personally approves of it, you know, I don't think she

516
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 1: would appreciate having her name or likeness used on on

517
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: anything because she was a little bit of a control freak. Yeah,

518
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: zombie Susan B. Anthony is gonna be rural upset. Yeah,

519
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 1: this is true. So this episode has been a long

520
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: time in coming, uh, and I hope it's been as

521
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: enlightening for listeners as it has been for me. I know,

522
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 1: I learned a lot of stuff I didn't previously know

523
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 1: about Susan B. Anthony. Yeah, and I really I feel

524
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 1: like maybe we should now go and do an episode

525
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 1: on those unsung heroines of the suffrage movement whose names

526
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 1: have all but been lost to history, to Susan B.

527
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 1: Anthony's history exactly. So let us sell your thoughts though

528
00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 1: mom Stuff at Discovery dot com is where you can

529
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 1: email us. You can also tweet us your thoughts at mom'

530
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 1: stuff podcast or Facebook messages over on well on Facebook,

531
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 1: And we've got a couple of messages to share with

532
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 1: you about our episode on thyroids. Well, I've got a

533
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: letter here from Kelleen, and she writes, I just wanted

534
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: to thank you for doing the show on thyroid issues,

535
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 1: more specifically for highlighting Hashimotos I was diagnosed with hashimotos

536
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, but it took me five

537
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 1: years of going to a doctor after doctor trying to

538
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: convince them that I wasn't just lazy and or depressed.

539
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 1: Finally I found a wonderful doctor who really listened to

540
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 1: me and thought to run the right tests, and the

541
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 1: rest was exactly like Caroline's story. It was so amazing

542
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 1: to hear a podcast or anyone really discussing how hard

543
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 1: the struggle for diagnosis can be and what this really

544
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 1: means to your body. Trying to get diagnosed could make

545
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 1: me feel crazy at times, but the struggle didn't stop

546
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 1: once I was diagnosed. I really feel like trying to

547
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 1: manage this, trying to feel as close in our most

548
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,719
Speaker 1: possible again, can be so very hard at times, and

549
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 1: so very few people understand that. I hope you were

550
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 1: doing well Caroline since your diagnosis and know that if

551
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 1: you ever struggle with it, you are totally not alone.

552
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 1: So thank you for bringing awareness to this topic. Hopefully

553
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 1: more women will hear it and really push for these

554
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:21,839
Speaker 1: tests when they experienced these symptoms with gratitude killing well,

555
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 1: I'm glad. I'm glad that our conversation. UH struck a

556
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 1: chord with people. UM, I I wish I had heard

557
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 1: a podcast about thyroids myself, UM and I have a

558
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,320
Speaker 1: message here from Lauren talking about her own thyroid experiences.

559
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 1: She says, I just wanted to thank you for the podcast,

560
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 1: if only you had done it six and a half

561
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 1: months earlier. She says that her story is much like mine,

562
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 1: and about a year and a half ago, at age

563
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 1: twenty seven, I went to go see my primary care

564
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 1: physician because I was extremely tired and pretty depressed. At

565
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 1: the time, I thought I may have been anemic. I

566
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,800
Speaker 1: never even considered thyroid issues. My doctor ransom basic blood

567
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,240
Speaker 1: work and included a screening of my t SH levels.

568
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 1: The results showed that my Ta t s H was

569
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,760
Speaker 1: quite elevated, more than seventy five when the normal ranges

570
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 1: point forward to four, and my doctor diagnosed me with hypothyroidism.

571
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 1: I was prescribed eighty eight micrograms of levothyroxine and I

572
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,760
Speaker 1: thought I was in the clear. Looking back, I probably

573
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 1: had hashimotives as well for quite some time prior to

574
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,759
Speaker 1: being diagnosed. Fast forward about a year two, about seven

575
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:21,840
Speaker 1: months ago, and I went in for my yearly physical

576
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 1: I mentioned to my doctor that my husband and I

577
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 1: were going to try to get pregnant, and she never

578
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 1: mentioned any issues that pregnancy could have on my thyroid

579
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: and hormone levels or vice versa. She only told me

580
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 1: to continue taking my medicine well. My husband and I

581
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,760
Speaker 1: were successful at getting pregnant fairly quickly. At my first

582
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 1: prenatal checkup at nine weeks pregnant, my basic blood work

583
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 1: showed that my t SH levels were once again out

584
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 1: of whack at over fourteen. After doing some research, I

585
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,320
Speaker 1: found that my thyroid levels really should have been managed

586
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 1: into a narrower range pre pregnancy, and that my medicine

587
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 1: should have been adjusted as soon as I found out

588
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 1: I was pregnant. I also read the numerous studies that

589
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,320
Speaker 1: showed the effects of my hypothyroidism on my unborn child.

590
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:01,320
Speaker 1: As a woman men in her first trimester, I was

591
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 1: already so hormonal and to find out that my chances

592
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 1: of losing the baby were higher than other women and

593
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 1: that my baby could have learning and developmental issues was

594
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 1: absolutely horrific. Luckily, I am now under the care of

595
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,879
Speaker 1: an indo chronologist who is monitoring my thyroid issues much

596
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 1: more closely. Once my husband and I got over the

597
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 1: shock of the bad news, we started to joke that

598
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 1: if our daughter has developmental issues, we will just give

599
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:26,280
Speaker 1: her a mama's thyroid issues bell curve. Yeah, still not funny,

600
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 1: but it's helping us to cope anyway. I hope your

601
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:30,759
Speaker 1: podcast has reached some women so they will be better

602
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:32,839
Speaker 1: informed and not have to go through what I did.

603
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 1: And then she wished me good luck with my thyroid issues,

604
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 1: which I really appreciate. Lauren, thank you for writing in

605
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 1: and telling us your story, and thanks to everyone who's

606
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 1: written in to share your stories with us. Mom Stuff

607
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:45,800
Speaker 1: discovery dot com is where you can send your letters

608
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 1: and to find all of our other social media links,

609
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 1: as well as every single podcast, blog post, and video.

610
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:53,919
Speaker 1: Do you need to head on over to Stuff Mom

611
00:36:53,960 --> 00:37:00,239
Speaker 1: Never Told You dot com for more on this and

612
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:02,839
Speaker 1: thousands of other topics. Is it how staff Works dot

613
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:11,400
Speaker 1: com