1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: Before we start, a quick note that in this series 2 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 1: we'll touch on a lot of topics, including dieting or 3 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:10,560 Speaker 1: disordered eating, sexual assault, and suicide. We want to let 4 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 1: listeners know so they can make an informed decision on 5 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: when or where to listen. We'll have specific content warnings 6 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:19,639 Speaker 1: in each episode description if you prefer to check before listening. 7 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 2: I don't think I knew why I loved him. I 8 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 2: just knew that everyone did, specifically the women. I don't 9 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 2: think at the time I connected that, but looking back 10 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 2: on it, they wanted to be around him and got 11 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 2: all giddy when he would show up, and wanted to 12 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 2: physically wash his feet like they did for Jesus and 13 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 2: the Bible. 14 00:00:57,600 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: One day, Lindsay was at a fellowship meeting with a 15 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 1: few dozen people. It was in the house of one 16 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: of the members. Everyone was cozied up on couches, chairs, 17 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 1: or cushions on the floor, and they were excited because 18 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:11,960 Speaker 1: Victor was there. He didn't always go to the smaller 19 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:15,960 Speaker 1: fellowship meetings like this one. In the middle of the meeting, 20 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:22,399 Speaker 1: everything stopped. Victor screamed. He was angry. No one had 21 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: given him a rose. Apparently that's something people used to 22 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,039 Speaker 1: do for the leader of the way, the cult that 23 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 1: River Road grew out of. Victor was so angry he 24 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:38,119 Speaker 1: threw someone out of the meeting. Afterwards, Lindsay's mom wanted 25 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 1: to show her love for Victor. She didn't want him 26 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: to be angry anymore. So Lindsay's mom flicked on the 27 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: intercom that connected to Victor's RV and she began to sing. 28 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 3: And for love, we will find love. 29 00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 2: And my mom went and sang like this song of 30 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 2: love follow where you Ea. It was a song about 31 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 2: declaring your love for the Shepherd Jesus Christ. 32 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 3: Our hearts joined to gettheras. 33 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 2: One basically declaring her love and loyalty to Victor over 34 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 2: the intercom. 35 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 3: To Getther and Sweet Harmny. 36 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 2: I remember like just watching her sing, and she was 37 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 2: so excited and so happy. 38 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 1: Lindsay's mom beckoned her to join in, but to Lindsay, 39 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,800 Speaker 1: it felt really awkward, like it was forced. 40 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 2: I was twelve. I had no idea like what love 41 00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 2: was or like I joined in a couple sentences, but 42 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:06,639 Speaker 2: I was really shy and not definitely not as excited 43 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 2: and into it as she was. 44 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'd say she was. 45 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 2: Definitely obsessed with him. 46 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 1: Victor Bernard, the leader of River Road Fellowship, declared the 47 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 1: summer of nineteen ninety nine the Summer of Love. He 48 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 1: led his congregation with this theme at the forefront. It 49 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: was baked into his sermons, the songs they sang, even 50 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: how he interacted with his followers. Love and demonstrating that 51 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: love through action was at the center of it all. 52 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: It's like Victor was determined that each one of them 53 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 1: would fall in love with him, one way or another. 54 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 1: For some of them it was immediate, for others it 55 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: took longer, but eventually they were all pulled in, each 56 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:11,839 Speaker 1: in their own way. And if you didn't feel that love, 57 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 1: you'd still get caught in the current, pulled out into 58 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 1: the water till you couldn't touch the ground. From Rococo 59 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: Punch and iHeart Podcasts, This is the Turning River Road. 60 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:42,280 Speaker 1: I'm Alan Lance. 61 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:47,480 Speaker 5: Lesser and I'mmerica Lance Part two, Summer of Love. 62 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 1: One thing I noticed about what you just said is 63 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 1: how the women always wanted to wash his feet the 64 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: way they did in the Bible. But isn't it kind 65 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 1: of the opposite in the Bible that Jesus washes his 66 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: disciples feet, Which is just interesting to me that somehow 67 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 1: in this interpretation it's kind of the opposite of the 68 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: lesson that I think at least I typically hear when 69 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: I hear the washing of the feet. 70 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:29,919 Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely, I mean in the Bible it talks about, 71 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 2: you know, Jesus. I feel like He's always giving of 72 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 2: himself to the apostles, to people in need, healing the sick, 73 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 2: healing the lepers. It just looking back, it feels like 74 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:45,039 Speaker 2: the total opposite of how Victor was. I started reading 75 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 2: some of my journal from two thousand and five two 76 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 2: thousand and six. The amount of times in there that 77 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 2: I have we have no shampoo, like we're praying for 78 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:58,160 Speaker 2: God to bless us with shampoo conditioner, or we have 79 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:03,280 Speaker 2: no fruits and vegetables, or we had no bread. Then 80 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:06,840 Speaker 2: the next sentence it would be that the church is 81 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 2: building Victor this huge house. He had a motorcycle at 82 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 2: one point, like a kind of like escalade, an RV 83 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:17,480 Speaker 2: a coach, and there was a summer where I had 84 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 2: one four panel olive green skirt that I had made 85 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:24,719 Speaker 2: and two T shirts to wear. That's it all summer long. 86 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 2: And yeah, it's just crazy to think it was such 87 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 2: the opposite. 88 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 4: Women fonded over him. 89 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:44,599 Speaker 6: He was more important than their husband's He was more 90 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:47,600 Speaker 6: important than their children. He was more important than anything. 91 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 5: Krista Leicester Pitch was another girl in River Road Fellowship. 92 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 5: Her family had been in it for a long time, 93 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 5: long before Lindsay arrived at the camp or even knew 94 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 5: it existed. The culture that might look so foreign too 95 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 5: an outsider was the air Chrysta breathed. But sometimes Krista 96 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 5: felt like she was the only one who saw the 97 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 5: absurdity of some of the things. Victor said, like everyone 98 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 5: was looking through a different lens at a different picture 99 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 5: than she was. 100 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 6: It's hard to really put it into words, but I 101 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 6: was always a little different than everybody else, my personality, 102 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 6: just the way that my brain operated. Come to find 103 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 6: out as an adult, I am neurodivergent. There are things 104 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:39,239 Speaker 6: that make me very, very smart, but there are also 105 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 6: things that I have setbacks in and those did not 106 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 6: work to my advantage As a child. There were things 107 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 6: that I saw through that other people may not have, 108 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 6: and there were things about my personality that people who 109 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 6: mattered didn't like. 110 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 5: She had an ass escape, though she loved to read. 111 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 5: As long as Christa had her little house in the 112 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 5: Prairie books nearby. She could endure anything. Christa remembers when 113 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 5: Victor used to leave their compound to recruit people. It 114 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 5: was on one of these trips that he recruited Lindsay's parents. 115 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 5: When he traveled all the way to Pennsylvania for dinner 116 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 5: and said Lindsay had to quit gymnastics. Christa and the 117 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 5: others would gather to send him off, waving as his 118 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 5: RV pulled away. The trip should be simple enough, but 119 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 5: each time Victor left the camp it was an ordeal. 120 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:38,560 Speaker 6: Looking back on it, I can recognize that he was 121 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 6: starting to put himself on a pedestal. It was very 122 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 6: dramatic that he was leaving. It was he may never 123 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 6: come back again, he may never see us again. Everybody 124 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 6: was just broken over this concept. But like, this is 125 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 6: what he had to do, this was God's will. And 126 00:08:56,280 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 6: he started to cry and then everybody started to cry. 127 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 6: I remember after he left and we carried on, the 128 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:09,839 Speaker 6: women would not stop just breaking down in tears, even 129 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 6: my mom. And I'd be like, Mom, are you crying 130 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:14,679 Speaker 6: because Victor might never be coming back? And I'm like, 131 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:17,960 Speaker 6: I remember saying, of course he's coming back, and she 132 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 6: was just, you know, that's not what he said. And 133 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 6: he did come back obviously, and I felt like it 134 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 6: was just a big dramatic show to you know, get 135 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 6: more of an emotional rise out of people. 136 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 4: But that's what it was like. 137 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,560 Speaker 5: Growing up, Christa had a chance to observe Victor up 138 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 5: close for a while. She and her family even lived 139 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 5: with him. 140 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:40,679 Speaker 4: I was born into it. 141 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 6: I've known Victor since basically the day I was born, 142 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 6: so I saw the evolution firsthand. 143 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:50,679 Speaker 4: I witnessed it. 144 00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 5: Victor wasn't always this prophet on a commune who had 145 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 5: women fallen following him everywhere before. Christa knew Victor before 146 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 5: she was even born. Victor was just a kid growing 147 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 5: up in Minneapolis. It sounds like Victor was pretty popular 148 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 5: growing up. Everybody knew him. A classmate said he was charismatic, 149 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 5: and his friends called him a party animal. Victor was 150 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 5: voted class president. He was captain of the hockey team, 151 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:24,680 Speaker 5: which in Minnesota is kind of a big deal, especially 152 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 5: at the prestigious private high school he went to, called Breck. 153 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 5: Victor's family life was a little more chaotic though. His 154 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 5: parents got divorced when he was six, and his dad 155 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 5: says his mom had bipolar disorder, even though. 156 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 1: They didn't know what it was at the time. 157 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 5: When Victor finally went to college in Upstate New York, 158 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 5: he played hockey there. His mom would still call him sometimes, and, 159 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 5: at least according to his dad, after one of those 160 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 5: phone calls he was really upset and crying. One of 161 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 5: the people in his dorm was walking by and said, 162 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 5: you look like you need Jesus in your life, and 163 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 5: that's when he found The Way International. Joining The Way 164 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 5: was a turning point in Victor's life. He dropped out 165 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 5: of school moved back to the Midwest to focus on 166 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 5: The Way, this giant religious group or cult, depending on 167 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:26,079 Speaker 5: how you look at it. At that point, some of 168 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:27,839 Speaker 5: his friends would even say that he would try to 169 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 5: convert them to The Way, and he followed their policy 170 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:33,959 Speaker 5: called mark and a Void, which basically meant if people 171 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 5: in your life didn't agree with your views, you'd cut 172 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 5: them out. When The Way's founder died and the group 173 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:42,680 Speaker 5: started to break up, Victor moved back to the Twin 174 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 5: Cities in Minnesota. He got a job at a company 175 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:50,079 Speaker 5: that sold mailing machines in nineteen eighty nine, and that's 176 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:51,959 Speaker 5: where Christa and her family come in. 177 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 6: My dad was one of the top salesmen in the company, 178 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 6: so he trained people, and Victor got hired as a salesman, 179 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 6: and Victor quickly glommed onto my dad, And honestly, I 180 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:16,320 Speaker 6: think my dad was just in a very vulnerable place. 181 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 5: Both of Chris's parents were in recovery from drug addiction 182 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:21,680 Speaker 5: and their marriage had hit a rough patch. 183 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 6: Victor had a way of well, he was very charismatic. 184 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 6: I mean, I know from experience in a one on 185 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:38,319 Speaker 6: one situation, he could be very kind and very engaging 186 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 6: and very approachable. 187 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 5: Victor began inviting Christa's parents over to his house for 188 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 5: these informal Bible fellowships. They always declined, but they started 189 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 5: hanging out with Victor and his wife. They had this 190 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 5: budding friendship. 191 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:56,959 Speaker 6: They would get invited to dinners at the Bernard's house, 192 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 6: and my dad began to realize that every single night 193 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 6: that they were invited to these dinners were the same 194 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 6: night that these Bible fellowships were happening, and still they 195 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 6: were declining. They were like, no, thank you, we you know, we're. 196 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 4: Going to go home. 197 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 6: Finally, Victor came to my parents' house. It was on 198 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 6: a Saturday and his fellowship group was on a little 199 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 6: camping trip nearby, and Victor invited them to the Sunday 200 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:37,560 Speaker 6: morning fellowship. My mom was standing in the kitchen with 201 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 6: her arms crossed, and my mom said, well, I love God, 202 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 6: but I hate organized religion. And Victor said, Laura, if 203 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:54,560 Speaker 6: you love God, you'll love this, and that was the 204 00:13:54,640 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 6: hook that they needed to go. They were faithful followers 205 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 6: from nineteen ninety until twenty sixteen. They just became immersed 206 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 6: in this church. It became their life. 207 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 5: In the mid nineties, Victor had a big idea. Years later, 208 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 5: he would say, God told them to do it by 209 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 5: a camp north of the Twin Cities create a living 210 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 5: center for their group, which by now he had started 211 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 5: calling River Road Fellowship. 212 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 1: So they did. 213 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 5: The camp was a set of cabins, a dining hall, 214 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 5: a large meeting room they could use as a chapel. 215 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 5: There were pine trees mixed in with small, open grassy 216 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 5: areas where they could garden and grow food. They built 217 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 5: some new buildings of their own and a barn for animals. 218 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 5: Just beyond the barn, a small pond drained into a lake. 219 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 5: A wooden bridge are over the stream, between them. The 220 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 5: bridge was kind of unnecessary, you could easily walk around 221 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 5: the pond to get to the other side, but it 222 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 5: added to the cozy, peaceful feel of the camp. Victor 223 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 5: named it the Shepherd's Camp. Shepherd as in Jesus the 224 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 5: Shepherd to his flock of believers, and Victor the shepherd 225 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 5: who would eventually start wearing biblical shepherd's clothing and walk 226 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 5: around with a large shepherd's crook. Victor and his family 227 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 5: moved to the Shepherd's Camp, and his followers did too. Then, 228 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 5: not too far from this main compound, they bought four 229 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 5: other plots of land. Other sites they turned into many 230 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 5: satellite compounds. These groups of trailers and fields a few 231 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 5: minutes drive away. Each of these other sites became like 232 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 5: little worlds of their own. Each was a cluster of 233 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 5: maybe half a dozen families. They hosted their own fellowships 234 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 5: of singing in prayer and speaking in tongues. With the 235 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 5: exception of men who had outside jobs, followers almost never 236 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 5: left their compounds. Victor traveled between the Shepherd's Camp and 237 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 5: the surrounding river Road fellowship properties in his RV, leading 238 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 5: fellowships and spending time with his followers and on special occasions, 239 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 5: all of the members of the group from all of 240 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 5: the properties would gather together at their center, the beautiful 241 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 5: Shepherd's Camp. 242 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 6: He really focused on raising up the men to be 243 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 6: leadership and to lead their own fellowships. I remember one 244 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 6: time Victor sent all the men in the church out 245 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 6: on what they called a duo, and duo is also 246 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 6: a carryover from the Way, and it's basically a solo 247 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 6: camping trip and it's you and God and you pray 248 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 6: and see what God has to save to you. And 249 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 6: Victor claims that it was on one of these duos 250 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 6: when he was in the Way that God called him 251 00:16:54,960 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 6: to lead the flock, to shepherd the flock. So he 252 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 6: sent all the men out on the duo. And this 253 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 6: is something that my mom told me. He gathered the 254 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 6: women at the Shepherd's camp and said, you know, I've 255 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 6: been focusing on the men, but now I'm going to 256 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 6: start focusing on the women. And that was really I 257 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 6: think the beginning of him starting to like groom the 258 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 6: married women. And a few years later he started focusing 259 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:35,400 Speaker 6: on the children. 260 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: Everyone at the Shepherd's Camp and the surrounding property is 261 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 1: hung on Victor's teachings which were Christian, but he had 262 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 1: some ideas of his own. Victors seemed to use one 263 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 1: device to motivate his followers Urgency. 264 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:22,360 Speaker 6: Nineteen ninety eight nineteen ninety nine, Victor started teaching about 265 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:24,200 Speaker 6: what he called the Sign of the Son of Man, 266 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 6: which is not the return of Jesus Christ, but it's 267 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 6: the sign that he is coming, and it was going 268 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 6: to be like, it's going to be super bright, it's 269 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 6: going to be super obvious. We don't know exactly what 270 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 6: it's going to look like, but we're going to know 271 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 6: what when we see it. And when we see the 272 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,159 Speaker 6: Sign of the Son of Man, we all have to 273 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,879 Speaker 6: meet at the Shepherd's camp. They had built like this, 274 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 6: this structure out of pople trees that we called it 275 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 6: the booth. We were all supposed to get to the 276 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 6: booth as fast as we could, and because of that, 277 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:02,199 Speaker 6: we were not al allowed to travel more than thirty 278 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:07,200 Speaker 6: minutes from home. It was very limited where we could go, 279 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:11,879 Speaker 6: especially in such a small town. It takes more than 280 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 6: thirty minutes to get pretty much anywhere. 281 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 1: They put a lantern on the wooden bridge over the pond. 282 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: Victor said, the light was there so when Jesus came back, 283 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 1: he would know where to find them. 284 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 2: It was lit every night, no matter the weather, no 285 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,399 Speaker 2: matter if there was a blizzard out, if it was storming, 286 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:34,360 Speaker 2: that lantern was lit every night. So I think maybe 287 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 2: this was to create that sense of urgency that you 288 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 2: better be ready. 289 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: They knew the day could come at any moment, that 290 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 1: Jesus would arrive for them, all the truest believers in 291 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:52,199 Speaker 1: the world. And then one Sunday morning, Lindsay heard the 292 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 1: big bell outside her family's trailer start to ring. 293 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,639 Speaker 2: The bell started ringing, the phone started ringing. 294 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 4: I remember like my mom yelling. 295 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 2: The eagles are gathering, The eagles are gathering. 296 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:11,119 Speaker 1: She could hear other people screaming nearby. They were on 297 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 1: the camp's satellite property called Three Taverns. 298 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 2: Everyone was just like went crazy. Jesus Christ was coming back. 299 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: This was it. 300 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:19,399 Speaker 4: He was coming. 301 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 2: We were going to Heaven. I remember my mom being 302 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 2: like so excited, like. 303 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:31,920 Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, we got to get to the Shepherd's Camp. 304 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:33,120 Speaker 4: We can't miss it. 305 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 2: You could see all the cars just flying off of 306 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 2: Three Taverns, the dirt just like flying up the dust clouds. 307 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:45,919 Speaker 1: Everyone gathered outside to berna the dining hall, the pond 308 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 1: and the ever present lantern were right in front of it. 309 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:51,400 Speaker 4: It was the end times. 310 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:52,680 Speaker 1: This was it. 311 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 4: Jesus Christ is coming back. 312 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:03,640 Speaker 1: And then Victor came out with an announcement, actually Jesus 313 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 1: was not coming back today. This was just a test 314 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 1: to see if they were ready for when the day came. 315 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 2: We were told it's just a drill. But everyone was 316 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:17,120 Speaker 2: in a great mood. Everyone was happy, people were laughing. 317 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 2: He was like, oh my gosh, like I can't believe, 318 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 2: you know, you left your oven on, Like what were 319 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 2: you thinking? And we were like, the rapture was here, 320 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:26,879 Speaker 2: you know, like the Lord was coming back. It wouldn't 321 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 2: have mattered anyway if the oven blew up. I think 322 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:36,640 Speaker 2: there was some disappointment, but it didn't overshadow the anticipation 323 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 2: of what it could be, of this happening for real. 324 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: Even though Christ hadn't returned. Lindsay felt like the experience 325 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: bonded everyone there, as if this chaotic emotional experience brought 326 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: them even closer. They were the lucky ones to be 327 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: part of this special group, the true believers on earth. 328 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,640 Speaker 1: They knew Jesus would come for them soon. They could 329 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 1: see it. 330 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,120 Speaker 6: The first thing that came out after the thirty minute 331 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 6: rule was we weren't allowed to touch or hug people anymore, 332 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 6: Like there was like a no touch rule. Unless it 333 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 6: was Victor. Then we could hug him and kiss him 334 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 6: and struggle with him and do whatever he wanted. But 335 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,680 Speaker 6: anybody else, unless you were like moving away from like 336 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 6: a property to another property and we're going to see 337 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 6: like your friends anymore, you could give him a hug. 338 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:40,920 Speaker 6: But other than that, hands off. 339 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 5: Oh my god, Like how did he justify that? 340 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 6: It was his idea of helping to keep things holy? 341 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 6: And that's all I remember. I was so young. I 342 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,679 Speaker 6: just remember understanding that I wasn't allowed to hug my 343 00:22:57,720 --> 00:22:58,440 Speaker 6: friends anymore. 344 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,440 Speaker 5: Victor's over arching principle through all these rules was called 345 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 5: living in the light, basically living your life in a 346 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:07,879 Speaker 5: way that you had nothing to hide from Victor or 347 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 5: the church elders. You should be comfortable having them know 348 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 5: everything about you. Anything else was darkness. Victor said, if 349 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 5: you were faithful in the specific ways he prescribed, you'd 350 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,919 Speaker 5: get special treatment in heaven, like being the elite of 351 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,479 Speaker 5: the elite, you'd get an extra special reward. 352 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,920 Speaker 6: We'd each get our own planet when we went to heaven, 353 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 6: because he's like, why are all these those galaxies and 354 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 6: planets out there? And he tied that to Jesus Christ saying, 355 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:41,679 Speaker 6: I go to prepare a place for you in my 356 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:49,200 Speaker 6: father's house for many mansions, and he believed the galaxies 357 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:53,200 Speaker 6: were the quote unquote many mansions. What he started teaching 358 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 6: was that maybe all the different churches that existed over time, 359 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 6: wou'd get their own galaxies and we all get our 360 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:05,400 Speaker 6: own planets to live on. But you know, we talk 361 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,159 Speaker 6: about like what's going to be on our planet, and 362 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 6: just like stupid things like I'm going to have like 363 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 6: my favorite breakfast every day on my planet, or I'm 364 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 6: going to sleep in the most comfortable hammock in the 365 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:19,360 Speaker 6: world on my planet. Anything that could possibly be ultimate 366 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 6: comfort and happiness to you on Earth. You're going to 367 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 6: get to have all of those at your disposal on 368 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 6: your planet, which to me sounded incredibly lonely just living 369 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:38,879 Speaker 6: on a planet all by myself. If you want to 370 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 6: be a part of the extra special Heaven, that would 371 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:46,119 Speaker 6: mean that you had to what he called stay in 372 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,159 Speaker 6: the sufferings, because to suffer with him is to reign 373 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,360 Speaker 6: with him. If we suffer, we will reign with him, 374 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 6: which essentially means stay in the cult, stay in the church. 375 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 4: I worked very hard. 376 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:05,159 Speaker 6: To teach us everything that he wanted us to know 377 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 6: and everything that he wanted us to believe. Class after 378 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 6: class after class, and we would be out at these 379 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:19,359 Speaker 6: classes sometimes till midnight, one or two o'clock, listening to 380 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:26,440 Speaker 6: this man go on and on and on as twelve, thirteen, 381 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:30,159 Speaker 6: fourteen year old children. And you know what happens to 382 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 6: a tired brain, Especially when you're a child, it's so 383 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 6: much more malleable. 384 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 4: You're just like, I'll do whatever this person wants me 385 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:40,880 Speaker 4: to do. 386 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,159 Speaker 1: Did you feel that at the time that some of 387 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,680 Speaker 1: these teachings felt made up? 388 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:52,160 Speaker 4: Growing up? I did. 389 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 6: I had a very simple faith in God, and I 390 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 6: still do. I believed that there was a God. I 391 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,159 Speaker 6: believed in Jesus. I believe that Jesus died for me 392 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,199 Speaker 6: and that I was going to go to heaven. I 393 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,200 Speaker 6: believed I was saved, and I didn't really think that 394 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 6: it needed to be complicated. 395 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 5: When Krista was eleven years old, she could see that 396 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 5: her mom was suffering. 397 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:22,160 Speaker 6: My mom had been very sick with a lifelong disease. 398 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 5: She had sarcoidosis. It's a condition that can manifest in 399 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 5: many ways, causing debilitating symptoms in different organs of the body. 400 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:35,439 Speaker 6: With my mom, it was her lungs. She had a very, very, 401 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 6: very hard time breathing. 402 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 5: There were times her mom couldn't even walk from one 403 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,639 Speaker 5: side of her room to the other without stopping to 404 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:46,879 Speaker 5: catch her breath. It was a difficult time for everyone, 405 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 5: but Christa found comfort in her favorite activity, her way 406 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 5: of expanding her world beyond River Road. 407 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 6: I loved to read, like that was my whole world, 408 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,919 Speaker 6: with stories and making up stories and reading stories. I 409 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:08,120 Speaker 6: was obsessed with Little Women, Little House on the Prairie, 410 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:12,680 Speaker 6: anything by Charles Dickens, Oh My Goodness, The Prince and 411 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:13,159 Speaker 6: the Pauper. 412 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 4: I was a serious bookworm. 413 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,639 Speaker 5: Chris's mom was getting desperate with her illness. She wanted 414 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 5: to know how to heal herself, so she started meeting 415 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:26,719 Speaker 5: one on one with Victor. 416 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:36,439 Speaker 6: Victor believed that it was spiritual, that it was not 417 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:41,399 Speaker 6: a physical illness. She was being manipulated into believing that 418 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,119 Speaker 6: she was doing something that was making her sick, and 419 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 6: that she needed to take action to make herself not sick. 420 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:50,439 Speaker 6: But nobody could tell her what it was, so she 421 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 6: was just doing whatever she could. 422 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 5: So one day she took action. 423 00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 6: It was an unseasonably warm January day, sunny, and my 424 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,159 Speaker 6: mom sat down on my bed with these books. 425 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 5: They were some of Christa's favorites, including her Little House 426 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:06,959 Speaker 5: in the Prairie books. 427 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 6: She said, Christa, I think that your time with the 428 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:13,920 Speaker 6: Little House in the Prairie books is over. 429 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 5: There was an opinion in the church that Little House 430 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 5: in the Prairie was attached to some kind of devil 431 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,439 Speaker 5: spirit and it was essentially on a list of banned books. 432 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,919 Speaker 6: And I was like, what, no, And she's like, we 433 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 6: need to get rid of these. And I remember she 434 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 6: walked down the hallway and we had a woodstove in 435 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 6: our living room, and I was like following her, and 436 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 6: I was like trying to grab these books out of 437 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 6: her hand because I didn't want her to get rid 438 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 6: of them. I didn't want her to burn them. And 439 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 6: I was like please no, please, no, please no, and 440 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 6: she's like, yes, this is what we're going to do. 441 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 6: And she set the books down on top top of 442 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 6: the wood stove in a stack. She was opening the 443 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 6: stove and I grabbed the books off the stove, and 444 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 6: I burned the palms of my hands. Then she took 445 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 6: them out of my hands, and then she threw them 446 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 6: all in the wood stove. She closed the door, and 447 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 6: that was that. Couldn't retrieve them. They were on fire. 448 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 4: I was crying. I was screaming. 449 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 6: I was so upset because my books were my escape. 450 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 4: That was where I went. 451 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 6: My books were kind of my security blanket, and just 452 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 6: knowing that I didn't have that anymore was scary in 453 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 6: a way and devastating for her to just not even 454 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 6: prepare me, just up and rip those out of my 455 00:29:55,040 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 6: hands and burn them. I was kind of almost emotionless, 456 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,240 Speaker 6: like this is what needed to happen, Like this is 457 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 6: what we had to do. I cried like a child 458 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:13,560 Speaker 6: because I was a child. It was an incredibly, incredibly 459 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 6: traumatic moment in my childhood. 460 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 4: I was devastated. 461 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 1: Through all of this. 462 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 5: Her mom seems stiff in response. 463 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,520 Speaker 6: I don't know why she chose that day. I don't 464 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 6: know why what brought that upon her that particular moment, 465 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 6: but she was like, this has to happen right now, 466 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 6: and nothing I said was going to sway her. 467 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 5: Krista remembers a couple of hours later, her dad called 468 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 5: her over. He said her mom could breathe again. Victor 469 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,400 Speaker 5: had told Christa's mom that he would run with her 470 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 5: down a long driveway and back if she got better. 471 00:30:58,720 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 1: So they did. 472 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 5: Chris's mom went from barely being able to walk across 473 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 5: a room to running side by side down a long 474 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 5: lane with the leader. She admired so much wind in 475 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 5: her hair and filling her lungs. She felt cured. After 476 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 5: her health improved, Chris's mom told Victor about the books, 477 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 5: and Victor said it was the books that had made 478 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 5: her sick. No one seemed to consider that sarcoidosis is 479 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,880 Speaker 5: known for symptoms that often come and go, but Victor 480 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,080 Speaker 5: was sure it was the books. He told her, it's 481 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 5: the darkness. This wasn't the end of Victor in the books. 482 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 5: There was a big meeting of the entire church one night. 483 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:41,479 Speaker 5: Everyone from every property came. They met in the chapel 484 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 5: at the Shepherd's Camp, a large spare room with low 485 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 5: ceilings everything white chairs lined up in rows. Christ's mom 486 00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 5: stood at the front on a small stage. She was 487 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 5: going to share her story how she was miraculously cured 488 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 5: after ridding herself of the darkness the books. Victor sat 489 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:08,480 Speaker 5: in the back of the church. 490 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:13,840 Speaker 6: He had like a little room in the back that 491 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 6: he would normally sit in at area meetings until it 492 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 6: was his time to like maybe come up and preach, 493 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 6: But during more informal meetings like this, he would oftentimes 494 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 6: he would come up and give his two cents in 495 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 6: the middle of this other person sharing and interject. 496 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 4: So my mom gets to the point. 497 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 6: Of the story where she's talking about these books, and 498 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 6: Victor comes down the middle aisleway and starts talking about 499 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 6: how they were causing my mom to be sick, that's 500 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 6: what was causing this ailment. Then I felt really guilty, obviously, 501 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 6: because they were my books and I was so against 502 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 6: getting rid of them, and so I you know, I 503 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 6: carried a lot of guilt for a long time as 504 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 6: a little girl, thinking that I had made my mom sick. 505 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 6: And I can mean, as an eleven year old girl, 506 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 6: can you even imagine like how badly that made me 507 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 6: want to crawl under my chair. Some women didn't even 508 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,880 Speaker 6: they just would talk about him. They would just refer 509 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 6: to him as him. They wouldn't even use his name, 510 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 6: like I'm gonna go see him now, or I got 511 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,400 Speaker 6: this from him, or we need to do this for him, 512 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 6: or you know, it's just like. 513 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,800 Speaker 4: He has a name. It's like he has a name. 514 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:50,240 Speaker 4: His name is Victor him who. 515 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 1: It's almost like a capital h him exactly, almost like god, 516 00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:03,080 Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, I just wonder, Like, you can't read people's minds, 517 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:07,400 Speaker 1: but I wonder to what degree some women were feigning 518 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 1: that obsession, like pretending to be obsessed because they felt 519 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:13,240 Speaker 1: like they had to. I'm just curious what you think. 520 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:15,839 Speaker 4: Well, I sure was. 521 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:19,719 Speaker 1: You feigned obsession with Victory as well? 522 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:20,799 Speaker 4: Oh? 523 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:25,240 Speaker 6: Absolutely, I believed he was special. I showed him respect, 524 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:27,400 Speaker 6: I showed him love. If he was sitting next to me, 525 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 6: I'd reach out and hold his hand. 526 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 1: Where did you learn that in certain situations you should 527 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,000 Speaker 1: go out and reach and hold his hand. Was that 528 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:41,160 Speaker 1: something he explicitly encouraged? Did he implicitly encourage it? Did 529 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 1: you just do it because other people did it? Like, 530 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:45,760 Speaker 1: I'm curious where that culture came from. 531 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,040 Speaker 4: Where the culture came from, I could pinpoint it. 532 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 6: We'd have these early camping trips, celebrations at the Shepherd's 533 00:34:59,040 --> 00:34:59,960 Speaker 6: camp called Taberna. 534 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:11,279 Speaker 1: Everyone loved the feast of tabernacles. It was a week 535 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,440 Speaker 1: long celebration where they would slaughter a lamb and have 536 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 1: a huge feast inspired by Scripture. Every fall, all the 537 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,440 Speaker 1: members of River Road would come from their various properties 538 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:26,719 Speaker 1: and set up tents at the Shepherd's camp. All the believers, 539 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:30,799 Speaker 1: as they call themselves, spent a week together, celebrating with 540 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:35,319 Speaker 1: food and music and teachings and games. Sometimes the young 541 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,200 Speaker 1: girls in the church moved properties in the weeks leading 542 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,839 Speaker 1: up to the feast to help prepare, and. 543 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,360 Speaker 6: Each one had a theme, and nineteen ninety eight the 544 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:44,720 Speaker 6: theme was the Song of Songs. 545 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:47,879 Speaker 1: The Song of Songs is also known as the Song 546 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,600 Speaker 1: of Solomon. It's a book in the Bible that's kind 547 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:54,680 Speaker 1: of unusual because it's a collection of love poems, erotic 548 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,480 Speaker 1: love poems between a man and a woman. 549 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,320 Speaker 4: About a woman and her love for kingsong women. 550 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 1: Christians often see it as an allegory for Jesus. In 551 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 1: the church, God is the man, the Church is the woman. 552 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,960 Speaker 1: Of course, the man in this relationship is the God figure. 553 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,839 Speaker 1: This year, all Victor could talk about was this book 554 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:17,880 Speaker 1: in the Bible, the Song of Songs. 555 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:22,520 Speaker 4: The women took it and they ray with it. 556 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:27,960 Speaker 6: The women just glombed onto that, and they're like, Victor 557 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:40,560 Speaker 6: is our King Solomon, He's our Jesus Christ in the flesh. 558 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:46,879 Speaker 6: We are supposed to have these feelings for him. First off, 559 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:52,480 Speaker 6: I was a tiny little child and being expected to 560 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,840 Speaker 6: run up and hug a middle aged man was just 561 00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:00,319 Speaker 6: with a lot to expect of me and show him 562 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 6: any type of like, you know, romantic feelings I could 563 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:06,479 Speaker 6: muster up as a sevent eight year old. But maybe 564 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:08,960 Speaker 6: it's not wrong. Maybe this is how we're supposed to 565 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:09,919 Speaker 6: treat the man of God. 566 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:11,600 Speaker 4: And it was so. 567 00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:16,879 Speaker 6: Jarring to me, like this is weird, and it never 568 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 6: got less weird. 569 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:25,800 Speaker 1: Wow to me. And in nineteen ninety nine, when Summer began, 570 00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:29,400 Speaker 1: Victor would stoke that affection from his followers to a 571 00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 1: new level. He would call it the Summer of Love. 572 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,840 Speaker 1: Lindsay was newer to this world than Christa. She was twelve, 573 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,880 Speaker 1: she'd been pulled out of gymnastics, and now she'd been 574 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 1: in Minnesota for a few months. At this point, followers 575 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,840 Speaker 1: had been whipped into a frenzy, ready to do anything 576 00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:50,880 Speaker 1: to show their love and devotion to Victor. 577 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 2: He would spend a lot of time with the marrying 578 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:57,760 Speaker 2: women and the young girls. 579 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,040 Speaker 1: Victor would sometimes take a shchef brood staff and join 580 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,240 Speaker 1: women or children in the pastures as they watched sheep. 581 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 1: It brought that imagery of Jesus the shepherd, the Lord 582 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:12,080 Speaker 1: is my shepherd. 583 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,520 Speaker 2: You would hear things like whispers from other locations that 584 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:22,800 Speaker 2: some of the girls were like serenading him with songs 585 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 2: outside his RV window, and everyone was just I guess, 586 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:33,160 Speaker 2: showering him with love, and he wanted their respect and honor. 587 00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,160 Speaker 1: Even though everyone talked about love, the love of God 588 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:41,560 Speaker 1: of Victor, Lindsay also felt on edge a lot of 589 00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:45,640 Speaker 1: the time, especially when she was at the main shepherd's camp. 590 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,080 Speaker 2: It did always feel like there were eyes everywhere, like 591 00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:57,200 Speaker 2: somebody was watching, you know, to see what I was doing. 592 00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:00,719 Speaker 2: Nothing would get past anyone. 593 00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,320 Speaker 4: Victor always talked about the rod of correction. 594 00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:05,839 Speaker 2: As a shepherd, they have their staff and then they 595 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,360 Speaker 2: also have the rod when the sheet need to be corrected. 596 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:15,600 Speaker 2: I remember seeing Victor spit on people during meals. I 597 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,719 Speaker 2: remember like he threw a chair across the room. There 598 00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:25,239 Speaker 2: were definitely things that happened that and being so young, 599 00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:27,480 Speaker 2: I don't even think I thought of it as abuse, 600 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:29,759 Speaker 2: like I wouldn't have used that word, you know to me. 601 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:35,960 Speaker 2: It was just things that were scary that made me 602 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,840 Speaker 2: afraid of him. It could make you feel like the 603 00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:44,560 Speaker 2: worst person in the entire world. 604 00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:49,280 Speaker 1: That air of punishment was all around. But other times 605 00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:51,960 Speaker 1: Victor might look you in the eye and compliment you 606 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:53,719 Speaker 1: in a way that made you feel amazing. 607 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:58,719 Speaker 2: Maybe he would look at you, or maybe he would like. 608 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:01,360 Speaker 4: His hand on your head. 609 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,520 Speaker 2: He played the harmonica, so sometimes he would jam out 610 00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:10,480 Speaker 2: to music and play his harmonica with some of the 611 00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:14,040 Speaker 2: other guys. He would also come play with the kids, 612 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:16,560 Speaker 2: like he would come play soccer with us. He'd go skating. 613 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:18,760 Speaker 2: He was a really good skater. He used to play hockey, 614 00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,120 Speaker 2: so he would get in those games with us. He 615 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,560 Speaker 2: could just make you feel special with a smile, with 616 00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:28,680 Speaker 2: a wink, with you know, a pat on the head 617 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:29,360 Speaker 2: or shoulder. 618 00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,040 Speaker 1: Lindsay's family lived at the Shepherd's camp for a while, 619 00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:35,160 Speaker 1: and then we moved out to one of the nearby 620 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:39,160 Speaker 1: satellite properties called Three Taverns, where families lived in a 621 00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:42,520 Speaker 1: group of trailers. One day, a tent was set up 622 00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:45,080 Speaker 1: for Victor at the property, and he invited a bunch 623 00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:47,640 Speaker 1: of other girls from different locations to come over. 624 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,080 Speaker 2: And we all ended up staying in the tent with 625 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:52,799 Speaker 2: him that night, so it was like packed. You know. 626 00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:54,520 Speaker 2: There was one blow up bed and then I think 627 00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:56,000 Speaker 2: the rest of us are just on the floor. 628 00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:58,919 Speaker 1: Some of the girls were Lindsay's age and some were 629 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:02,440 Speaker 1: older teenage and young women girls. Lindsay looked up to 630 00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:07,120 Speaker 1: the oldest, who was about twenty, asked them all a question, who. 631 00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:09,080 Speaker 2: Wants to sleep next to Victor? And all the girls 632 00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:11,719 Speaker 2: are raising their hands so excited, and I did not, Like. 633 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,440 Speaker 2: I was like, no, like I do not want to. 634 00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,640 Speaker 2: And I'd wonder like why, like why was that a 635 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:20,600 Speaker 2: big deal? Why did everyone want to sleep next to him? 636 00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:22,840 Speaker 2: Like they were all going crazy of who wanted to 637 00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:23,680 Speaker 2: sleep next to him? 638 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:28,800 Speaker 1: But apparently something about Lindsay's response stood out. 639 00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:31,680 Speaker 2: And she picked me. She's like, oh, I picked you 640 00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:34,560 Speaker 2: because you're the only one that doesn't want to. I 641 00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:36,160 Speaker 2: don't think anyone said it, but you know what, can 642 00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:40,759 Speaker 2: you just tell people are jealous or like kind of irritated. 643 00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:43,200 Speaker 4: A couple of them were that with me. 644 00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,880 Speaker 1: Lindsay somehow knew that regardless of how she felt or 645 00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:50,759 Speaker 1: how anyone else in the tent. Felt she had to 646 00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,640 Speaker 1: do as she was told, so she went over to 647 00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:54,520 Speaker 1: where Victor was. 648 00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:00,279 Speaker 2: And I remember laying there like as far as I 649 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:04,920 Speaker 2: could on that air mattress, so stiff, like as stiff 650 00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:08,680 Speaker 2: as a board, like a pencil, Like my hands were 651 00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:13,080 Speaker 2: so straight, like right next to my legs. I just 652 00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:18,319 Speaker 2: remember like being on the edge. I was so uncomfortable, 653 00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:25,200 Speaker 2: and I think I just felt, I guess, just so 654 00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:30,040 Speaker 2: nervous about sleeping next to a grown married man and 655 00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:34,400 Speaker 2: end it being Victor, like this guy who was like 656 00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:39,279 Speaker 2: basically you know, as he calls himself, like married to 657 00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:42,520 Speaker 2: the Church, like Christ and the flesh, like who carries 658 00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:48,600 Speaker 2: all this authority? And yeah, very nervous and scared and 659 00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:55,840 Speaker 2: uncomfortable that whole night. 660 00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:01,720 Speaker 1: After that, Lindsay had quiet winter with her family. 661 00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:05,440 Speaker 2: There's a lot of snow and we had animals, so 662 00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:09,320 Speaker 2: we were up way early in the morning chipping away 663 00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:13,359 Speaker 2: at those black rubber barrels cut in half. We used 664 00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:15,719 Speaker 2: them to put the water in for our animals, so 665 00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:19,840 Speaker 2: pounding away to get the ice mixed up so that 666 00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:20,840 Speaker 2: they could drink water. 667 00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,880 Speaker 1: Then they'd have breakfast, homeschooling and time to play and 668 00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:28,560 Speaker 1: work with the animals. And then early on that year, 669 00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:31,800 Speaker 1: Victor was staying near their house again in his RV. 670 00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,520 Speaker 2: I don't even remember if I was sent there, if 671 00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:39,400 Speaker 2: he called me, or maybe I had to bring something 672 00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:46,560 Speaker 2: to him. And I remember walking in and I couldn't 673 00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:47,040 Speaker 2: see him. 674 00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:49,400 Speaker 1: He was in the private bedroom at the back of 675 00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:49,839 Speaker 1: the RV. 676 00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:54,520 Speaker 2: He told me to come in the back, and he 677 00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:59,040 Speaker 2: was standing there without any clothes on. And I had 678 00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:06,880 Speaker 2: just turned just turned thirteen, still looking very much like 679 00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:12,680 Speaker 2: a little kid, and he was standing there naked, and 680 00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:17,000 Speaker 2: I remember he like pulled me close to him and. 681 00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:24,920 Speaker 4: Had me touch his penis, and I don't know. 682 00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:27,040 Speaker 2: Sometimes I'm like, why didn't you? I think I was 683 00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:29,440 Speaker 2: just frozen. I was so frozen. 684 00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:30,399 Speaker 4: I didn't. 685 00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,120 Speaker 2: Know what to do. I don't think I said anything. 686 00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:42,960 Speaker 2: I was. I think in shock, you know when you 687 00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,080 Speaker 2: maybe like tense up and you hold your breath and 688 00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:50,279 Speaker 2: you are scared to move a muscle, and you know 689 00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:57,520 Speaker 2: your heart starts racing really fast. I didn't know what 690 00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:00,360 Speaker 2: to do, what to think. I remember just being so 691 00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:06,000 Speaker 2: like stiff, not wanting to move, not wanting to say anything. 692 00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:14,560 Speaker 2: I definitely wasn't having those feelings of love towards him. 693 00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:17,720 Speaker 2: At the time, it was more of like how quickly 694 00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:20,839 Speaker 2: can these minutes go by? Like when can I get 695 00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:26,520 Speaker 2: out of here? And I guess you could tell like 696 00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:31,000 Speaker 2: I was so nervous and unsettled like he. Then we 697 00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:34,200 Speaker 2: just got up and he got dressed, and I remember 698 00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:37,719 Speaker 2: him telling me not to tell my parents, you know, 699 00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:42,040 Speaker 2: anything that had happened, and nobody would understand. So I 700 00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:45,360 Speaker 2: think I tried maybe to rationalize it in my head 701 00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:49,080 Speaker 2: that like I didn't need to talk to anyone about it, 702 00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:52,960 Speaker 2: or if I did, something really bad would happen, because 703 00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:56,080 Speaker 2: you know, if people went against him, bad things happened. 704 00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:58,880 Speaker 2: I tried not to think about it or dwell on 705 00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:01,719 Speaker 2: it too much because I didn't really know what to 706 00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:05,759 Speaker 2: make of it. So I just shoved it way back there. 707 00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:15,280 Speaker 1: Months of the compound flew by, winter melted into spring 708 00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:20,719 Speaker 1: into summer. As Victor instructed, Lindsay didn't tell anyone what 709 00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:24,560 Speaker 1: happened in his camper. She tried to forget what happened, 710 00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:35,600 Speaker 1: and somehow it almost felt like it didn't. There's a 711 00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:38,600 Speaker 1: small moment Lindsay later shared with Victor and her young 712 00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:43,000 Speaker 1: sister Lacey. Lindsay would have completely forgotten it if she 713 00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:46,360 Speaker 1: hadn't written it down. As she read from her journal, 714 00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:53,239 Speaker 1: the memory came to life. On a sunny day, she 715 00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:56,239 Speaker 1: and her sister took some sheep out to pasture, letting 716 00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:59,200 Speaker 1: them out beyond the safety of their fences, with only 717 00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:01,919 Speaker 1: border collies keeping the sheep at bay, so. 718 00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:04,160 Speaker 2: We would just let them eat freely and just take 719 00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:05,399 Speaker 2: them through the fields. 720 00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:13,840 Speaker 1: At one point, Victor lay down in the grass between 721 00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:18,719 Speaker 1: Lindsay and Lacy. He told them how years ago, in 722 00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:22,879 Speaker 1: that very spot he had talked to God. He lay 723 00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:26,440 Speaker 1: there weeping and crying out to God. He said he 724 00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:29,840 Speaker 1: felt his body melting into the earth, as if he 725 00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:35,799 Speaker 1: were letting go of his earthly life. Victor said, in 726 00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:39,520 Speaker 1: that moment of weakness, he felt God had lifted him 727 00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:41,520 Speaker 1: up and set him on a mission. 728 00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:48,600 Speaker 2: Victor said he audibly heard God's voice and he was 729 00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:49,640 Speaker 2: ordained by God. 730 00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:51,320 Speaker 4: He was our shepherd. 731 00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:55,400 Speaker 1: Victor said he had prayed for Lindsay and her sister 732 00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:59,439 Speaker 1: before he even knew them, and now in this moment 733 00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:03,279 Speaker 1: with Lindsay and Lazy, he said, he had a realization. 734 00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:05,960 Speaker 2: As he looked at us, he realized that we were 735 00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:08,360 Speaker 2: the fruit that God had given him From his trip. 736 00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:12,480 Speaker 1: He sat up, looked right at Lindsay and said. 737 00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:15,160 Speaker 4: You are the joy of my tears. 738 00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:37,320 Speaker 1: Next time on the Turning. 739 00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:41,200 Speaker 2: Wait, what did I agree to? Because I don't ever 740 00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:46,279 Speaker 2: remember making a commitment like this, But I also know 741 00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:50,560 Speaker 2: that I felt too maybe scared to speak up and 742 00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:53,960 Speaker 2: question it or ask anyone about it. 743 00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:57,360 Speaker 4: It was almost felt like it was too late. I 744 00:48:57,560 --> 00:48:58,240 Speaker 4: felt trapped. 745 00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:14,719 Speaker 5: The Turning is a production of Rococo Punch and iHeart Podcasts. 746 00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:18,040 Speaker 5: It's written and produced by Alan Lance, Lesser and Me. 747 00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:22,680 Speaker 5: Our story editor is Emily Foreman. Mixing and sound designed 748 00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:27,439 Speaker 5: by James Trout. Grace Doe is our production assistant. Fact 749 00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:32,160 Speaker 5: checking by Andrea Lopez Crusado. Our executive producers are John 750 00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:36,040 Speaker 5: Parratti and Jessica Alpert of Rococo Punch and Katrina Norvel 751 00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:39,880 Speaker 5: and Nikki Etour at iHeart Podcasts. You can follow us 752 00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:42,839 Speaker 5: on Instagram at Rococo Punch, and you can reach out 753 00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:47,160 Speaker 5: via email The Turning at Rococo punch dot com I 754 00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:49,480 Speaker 5: America Lance, thanks for listening. 755 00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:01,320 Speaker 2: Now any