WEBVTT - CLASSIC: Whatever happened to Julian Assange? 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.600 Welcome back to the show, fellow conspiracy realist. This is 0:00:03.640 --> 0:00:06.560 a classic episode while we were on the high seas. 0:00:06.960 --> 0:00:10.240 We have a lot of folks that we call returning 0:00:10.360 --> 0:00:13.040 guests on Stuff they Don't Want You to Know, because 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:15.680 they come in and out of all kinds of stories, 0:00:16.160 --> 0:00:19.720 and for several years over the course of this show, 0:00:19.960 --> 0:00:23.439 one guy who absolutely captivated our attention was the creator 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:25.960 of WikiLeaks, Julian Assange. 0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:29.840 He was amongst one of the first dozen episodes that 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:32.479 we ever made of this iteration of stuff they Don't 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:35.559 want you to Know, and he made several appearances on 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:38.680 our video series on YouTube. So do check out YouTube 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:42.680 dot com, slash Conspiracy Stuff or at Conspiracy Stuff if 0:00:42.680 --> 0:00:43.000 you will. 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:45.040 Well, it's so funny that this just came up because 0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:48.400 I just got served a recommendation on one streaming app 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:51.840 or another for the Alex Gibney documentary We Steal Secrets, 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:54.440 the Story of WikiLeaks, which I had never got around 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:57.600 to watching, and it's on my list, and it reminded 0:00:57.640 --> 0:00:59.440 me of this. And now, isn't there some kind of 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:02.000 like he's in the wind a little bit right now? 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:03.680 What's going on with old boy? 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:08.120 Well, we know that he made it back to Australia 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:12.960 after we did this episode in twenty twenty, and from 0:01:13.200 --> 0:01:17.480 statements by his brother Gabriel Shipton at the time, the 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:20.320 word on the street was he was still adjusting spending 0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:23.560 time with his family because he went through some horrific 0:01:23.600 --> 0:01:26.080 stuff right when it was locked up in the embassy. 0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:32.200 We know that he attended some pro Palestinian protest in 0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:35.680 the past year. He also went to some other notable events, 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:39.880 but he's been kind of keeping his head down. Yeah, Hey, do. 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:42.960 You think Julian Massage would ever talk to us? Would 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:43.720 we want to talk to him? 0:01:43.760 --> 0:01:46.320 I think I would want to talk to him, absolutely. 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:51.680 Yeah, I get text him. Okay, Ben, Well, well it's 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:54.240 someone who says they're Julian Massage. I think I just 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:58.360 put up like that my phone. But well, yeah, let's 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:00.920 reach out because I think it would be a fascinating 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:04.960 perspective and it's worth exploring, especially because we know the 0:02:05.040 --> 0:02:08.880 reporting about this guy was so heavily tilted and influenced 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:12.959 by powerful forces when WikiLeaks was having its heyday in 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:13.440 the news. 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:16.239 It's practically referred to as like a terrorist, like a 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:18.280 cyber terrorist. 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:21.080 Right, and for some he is a soldier in the 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:24.400 war for transparency. To others, he is portrayed as a 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:28.840 super villain. In this episode from twenty twenty, we ask 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:31.119 whatever happened to Julian Massage. 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:33.320 But first let's hear a quick word from our sponsor. 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:39.040 From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:43.440 riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:46.520 learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 0:02:46.560 --> 0:02:49.120 production of Iheartrading. 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:00.960 Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, 0:03:01.120 --> 0:03:01.840 my name is Noah. 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:04.440 They call me Ben. We are joined as always with 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:08.919 our super producer, Paul Mission Controlled Decant. Most importantly, you 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:12.360 are you. You are here, and that makes this stuff 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:16.560 they don't want you to know. Today, we're focusing on 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:20.160 the story of one man, a single individual, a larger 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:25.120 than life figure who once upon a time dominated global news. 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:29.639 To some, he is an inspiring icon of free speech 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:32.760 and transparency, the kind of figure you'd build a statue for. 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:37.560 To others, he's a power mad super villain, an agent 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:43.200 of chaos, and to still others many people, he's just dangerous. 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:45.920 His name is Julian Assange. 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:48.520 Our last update that we did on this show on 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:52.800 Julian Assange was almost exactly a year ago today. It 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:56.680 was May tenth, twenty nineteen, and today's May sixth, twenty twenty. 0:03:56.720 --> 0:03:59.760 As we're recording this, so you know, we're not gonna 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:03.200 spend too much time in the background because previously we 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:08.160 have covered basically Julian Assauge's earlier situations. If you really 0:04:08.160 --> 0:04:10.080 want to learn that stuff, you can go back to 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:13.280 those episodes. But for for today, we're gonna look at 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:15.680 where he is now, briefly, how he got there, and 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:19.240 the very very real, big picture issues that his current 0:04:19.279 --> 0:04:20.760 situation is revealing. 0:04:21.240 --> 0:04:23.440 Do you guys think what makes people think super villain 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:26.840 is his like stark white hair. You know, it seems 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:30.279 like a really good feature for a for a like 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:32.120 a Superman villain of some kind. 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:35.560 Well, Ben Ben has his background right now in the 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:38.440 video chat we're doing. He's got a picture of Julian 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:43.480 back there, and to me, it doesn't feel very super villainous. 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:47.280 I mean, that's the that's the issue. You know, we're 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:52.359 recording shows while we're several weeks into quarantine. But this guy, 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:56.159 this picture that I have in the background, he's he's 0:04:56.160 --> 0:04:58.800 a quarantine master, you know, he's been on lockdown for 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:02.400 nearly seven year, so when they're pulling him out, he's 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:05.080 got the he's grown a beard that is as white 0:05:05.240 --> 0:05:08.920 as his naturally white hair. And I think I could 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:11.960 agree with you, Noel, for especially for people who aren't 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:15.960 reading the specifics of what he does. If you just 0:05:15.960 --> 0:05:17.640 see a headline in the picture of the guy and 0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:21.480 you like Bond films, you might be tempted to say, yeah, 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:23.440 that guy looks like a super villain. A lot of 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:25.719 it will go into dress too, Like if he wore 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:28.159 a turtleneck more often, I think that would up the 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:31.840 Bond quotient. But maybe I'm thinking of the earlier Bond movies. 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:34.880 Maybe he had like a bionic hand or something, and 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:37.760 like a cat that he would stroke with that bionic hand. 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:40.599 Or a weird gun. 0:05:41.080 --> 0:05:44.000 Is that is that, Inspector Gadget, No, what is that from? 0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:47.120 Yeah, doctor Claw, he stroked the weird cat with the 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:48.920 bionic arm. Yeah, okay, okay. 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:52.280 Then there's also Blowfeld in the James Bond movies, who 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:53.520 also had a cat. 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:56.719 Or at least at the at the very least Doctor 0:05:56.800 --> 0:05:59.359 Claw had a metal gauntlet, but since they called it 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:01.400 a claw, like to think it was like a bionic 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:05.960 hand situation. So those are those are some speculations, right, 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:09.880 but let's get to the facts. So here are the facts. 0:06:09.920 --> 0:06:14.640 The gist of Julian Nossange. You know, Julian Nossange was 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:18.560 born in Australia in nineteen seventy one July third. Specifically, 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:22.640 for a full look at his biography and his early 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:26.600 years his ascendants, if you will please check out our 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:29.839 previous episodes. What we'd like to give you by way 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:33.640 of background now is just a very high level look 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:37.560 at what you could call his career and the consequences 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:38.840 of his career path. 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:43.080 So today, Asan is probably best known for his activism, 0:06:43.120 --> 0:06:46.440 which inspired him to create the website Wiki Leagues in 0:06:46.440 --> 0:06:49.359 two thousand and six. I think we're all pretty familiar 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:51.880 with wiki leaks, but let's think of it as kind 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:54.400 of a one stop shop for would. 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:57.120 Be whistleblowers and leakers. 0:06:56.920 --> 0:07:02.800 Of classified documents and footage from around the world. In theory, 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:06.559 sort of a repository for all the stuff they don't 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:12.320 want you to know, regardless of who they might specifically be. 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:15.760 And Wiki Leak's gained international attention in April of twenty 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:18.840 ten when the organization released footage showing members of the 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:24.080 US military fatally shooting eighteen civilians, including journalists, from a 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:25.440 helicopter in Iraq. 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:29.360 Yeah, that was sort of the leak heard around the world, 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:31.320 you know what I mean, I've. 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:34.040 Been I still remember being in the fish Bowl office 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:37.640 at our previous office when that footage was released, and 0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:40.680 you and I discussing it almost immediately after it came out. 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:46.400 It was a very intense thing to witness, especially being 0:07:46.440 --> 0:07:49.720 that it was not something that was ever meant to 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:52.880 get to us as you know, the American public or 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:53.680 the world public. 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:58.120 Right. Yeah, And on a personal note, I missed the 0:07:58.160 --> 0:08:02.280 fish Bowl. Everyone listening if you checked out our YouTube 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:04.560 videos and maybe we talked about it occasionally, but that 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:07.800 was just so cool. Other than being nearly impossible to 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:12.680 film in, it was pretty cool. Long story short on 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:16.480 that one. It used to be a single person's office 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:19.400 and then we moved in and there were like seven 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:23.320 of us at one point six, six or seven anyway. 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:24.720 At least six. Paul would know best. 0:08:24.920 --> 0:08:27.400 Paul would know best. Oh yeah, that's right. Paul was 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:32.760 a fishbowler as well, and this footage rocked, not just 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:35.800 the fish Bowl, but the world, and at this point 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:38.520 won a pause and give you a heads up that 0:08:38.840 --> 0:08:40.920 we are going to be talking about some things of 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:44.360 a sexual nature, so this may not be suitable for 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:49.120 all listeners. Later that same year, twenty ten, when he 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:53.240 released the footage, Assange was detained in the United Kingdom 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:58.120 because Sweden had issued an international arrest warrant over allegations 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:02.080 that he had sexually assaulted two women during his time 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:03.439 in the Scandinavian country. 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:09.000 Yeah Specifically, the allegations concerned the idea that he had 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:12.480 raped one woman and then molested and coerced another, all 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:15.120 during August tenth when he was in Stockholm to give 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:20.199 a lecture, and authorities were very motivated to question him 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:25.400 about these allegations. Assans maintained and continues to maintain to 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:29.760 this day, that both encounters were consensual, and this triggered 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:34.880 an extensive court battle. Eventually, he ended up seeking asylum 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:39.319 in the Ecuadorian embassy in London in order to avoid 0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:43.600 possible extradition to either Sweden or ultimately the US, where 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:47.600 his actions with Wiki Leaks led him to believe he 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:52.720 would not receive a fair shake. Much like Chelsea Manning, 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:56.640 who partnered with Wiki leaks to leak that earlier footage 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:59.120 that we spoke about, and as we know, Chelsea Manning 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:06.560 was significantly demonized and the brunt of some very very 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:08.160 serious consequences. 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:13.640 Yeah. Yeah. Part of Chelsea Manning's case, though, goes into 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:18.760 the fact that Chelsea was a member of the US Army, 0:10:19.240 --> 0:10:23.200 so there's some heavier consequences. But still you're right the 0:10:23.240 --> 0:10:27.080 writings on the wall. Julian Essange very rightly thought that 0:10:27.160 --> 0:10:30.040 he would not get a fair trial, and so it 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:33.560 was that he spent He tried to get to Ecuador proper, 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:37.200 but he ended up spending seven years almost hold up 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:39.880 in the embassy. And there were a lot of media 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:45.480 reports about him. You can see some interviews. They depicted 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:49.520 him in ways that sometimes sounded like propaganda or character 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:53.040 witness stuff. Now, now, to be fair, we have not 0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:57.800 ourselves spoken with mister Assange, but he does have a 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:01.760 reputation of being a bit shall we say, contankerous, like 0:11:01.840 --> 0:11:04.520 he'll walk out of an interview if he feels it's unfair. 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:10.319 His bedside manner, some journalists find it lacking, but you'll 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:14.040 see reports of him like being a bad HouseGuest, basically 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:16.800 like he wasn't cleaning up after his cat, and that 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:19.720 became How surreal is that that became an issue in 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:24.839 the embassy. He also had two children during this time. 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:29.040 He was finally arrested by British police on April eleventh, 0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:34.000 twenty nineteen, right after the Ecuadorian President, Lennon Moreno announced 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:39.479 via Twitter again that the country had withdrawn his asylum 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:45.040 status along the way Sweden withdrew their earlier allegations. But 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:48.280 after he was dragged out of the embassy in that 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:52.120 picture that you guys can see behind me, which is 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:56.400 contrasted with what I think that's Game of Thrones? Which 0:11:56.480 --> 0:12:01.880 character is that from Game of Thrones? I y lewin. Yeah, 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:03.920 that's a good call, I think so, Yeah, I think 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:07.800 you're right. So ultimately, the UK court sentenced him to 0:12:07.920 --> 0:12:11.400 fifty weeks in jail on May first, twenty nineteen, not 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:15.679 for leaking documents, just for jumping bail, for breaching bail agreements. 0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:21.680 And then that's when Swedish prosecutors reopened their investigation into 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:24.600 the allegations of sexual misconduct and assault. 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:29.280 Yeah, and you know Wiki leagues over the years that 0:12:29.360 --> 0:12:34.280 it has been operating, both while Julian Assange was really 0:12:34.320 --> 0:12:37.520 at the Helm and you know, doing day to day 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:39.640 operations as well as when he was in the embassy, 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:42.840 and there were others running wiki leaks, which it did 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:49.200 continue actively publishing releases for a while. There were a 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:53.120 ton of controversies that arose, you know, obviously from the 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:57.360 ones we've already outlined there, but countless others. And one 0:12:57.360 --> 0:12:59.920 of the main ones that we talked about that you know, 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:03.360 the Iraq War tape, that specific video that was released. 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:08.880 It was a part of a larger Iraq war release 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:11.760 that was called the Iraq War Logs. It was also 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:15.840 called i think the Baghdad War Diaries, something to that effect. 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:21.880 So that tape was released in April of twenty ten. 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:25.800 Then the full Iraq War Logs were released in October 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:29.319 of twenty ten, and this was a trove of almost 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:34.400 four hundred thousand classified reports that, according to WikiLeaks and 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:38.760 other people who have gone through these documents, quote, document 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:41.600 the war and occupation in Iraq from the first of 0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:44.240 January two thousand and four to the thirty first of 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:47.199 December two thousand and nine. And this is the thing 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:51.200 we were talking about, that the massive event. It was 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:56.719 everyone talking about this multiple countries and institutions weighed in 0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:59.800 about what needed to happen because of this release, and 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:05.600 really everyone, especially the United States, went into damage control 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:09.360 because not only did this affect how the US government 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:12.480 and militaries were going to be looked at, it also 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:14.880 was going to affect how the allies of the United 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:18.280 States government were going to be scrutinized in the future. 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:21.000 It really was a big deal. 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:26.920 Yeah, it's set massive precedent, you know, and there were 0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:31.960 so many contradicting narratives when it plays so much attempt 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:36.960 to spin. It was very it's very difficult to watch 0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:42.000 history being made because history books make it seem so clean, 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:46.240 so point A to point B, but there's so many 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:49.760 things that get lost in the shuffle. And that's just 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:53.040 one of the controversies. Right. We also know that later 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:58.960 wiki leaks in twenty ten leaked more than two hundred 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:04.840 and fifty thousand classified diplomatic cables. A cable here in 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:07.440 this sense is not like an HDMI cable or something. 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:12.920 It's and it's not like comcasts. It's a message, right, 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:17.880 It's a secret message that different embassies send to one another. 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:24.200 And these these privileged communications might be intelligence on the 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:27.720 ground from an intelligence agency. They might be something as 0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:34.240 small as like the ambassador to Syria said that he 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:36.680 was willing to work with us on this, but I 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:39.440 just think I just think he was trying to get 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:42.720 me out of the room, because the man has notorious ibs. 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:46.680 Like it's very frank, behind the scenes kind of looks 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:49.640 at stuff. There are things the governments of the world 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:53.840 do not want the international public, other countries, or their 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:57.400 domestic constituents to know. So it is not, by any 0:15:57.400 --> 0:16:01.360 means hyperbole to say that this fundamental rocked the world 0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:05.880 of diplomacy, and the repercussions are still reverberating today. This 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:10.280 did some irreparable damage to international relations. 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:12.800 Yeah, I mean think about like if you were on 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:16.440 an email thread with like somebody, and then you thought 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:19.640 you had deleted that person temporarily from the thread and 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:21.680 sort of talking a bunch of trash about them with 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:24.840 your you know, cohorts, and then you realize that that 0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:27.880 person actually was on the whole time. Not a good look. 0:16:28.080 --> 0:16:31.800 This is sort of like a much larger scale version 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:33.800 of that, because as you said, Ben, I mean, these 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:37.560 could just be very candid, little snippy comments, you know, 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:39.880 and it's not like it would necessarily be stuff that 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:43.720 would blow open the doors of like, you know, any 0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:47.920 kind of conflict necessarily directly or any kind of intelligence 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:50.360 that would you know, be just earth shattering. 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:51.680 It's just a bad look. 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:54.200 I mean, diplomacy in and of itself is about good 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:59.280 bedside manner and keeping those relationships healthy and stroking egos. 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:01.960 And this would do a whole lot of damage to 0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:04.159 break down some of those relationships that a lot of 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:07.320 these diplomats had worked very hard to nurse and maintain. 0:17:07.960 --> 0:17:10.080 And by the way, if you want to see either 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:13.360 of these two subjects that we just talked about, the 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:16.680 Iraq warlogs or the diplomatic cables, you can find all 0:17:16.720 --> 0:17:20.760 of that. It's all searchable on the WikiLeaks dot org website. 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:23.919 Just if you're curious or you know, you're feeling a 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:26.480 little dangerous, you can go check those out. 0:17:27.680 --> 0:17:31.240 Yeah, yeah, we should say one benefit of talking about 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:34.280 these past weeks is that they are all available, you 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:39.320 know what I mean. It reminds me of the streisand effect. 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:42.679 You guys know what that is, right, No, So the 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:48.840 streisand effect is essentially saying that once something is out there, 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:53.640 once something is published online, especially it cannot be removed 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:56.520 no matter how much someone wants it to be removed. 0:17:56.560 --> 0:18:00.160 It's named after a picture of Barber streisand I believe 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:03.120 that she asked to be removed from the internet. And 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:05.639 you know, we all are familiar with the denizens of 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:08.360 the internet. That is the same thing as telling them 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:11.159 please pretty please spread this everywhere. 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:15.399 Yeah, it was her Malibu home as of two thousand 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:18.200 and three. I believe that she was attempting to remove. 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:20.960 That's right, And you could see the argument there because 0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:24.679 it's like, hey, this is, you know, my personal dwelling place. 0:18:25.240 --> 0:18:28.399 But this situation reminds me of something very funny. I 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:30.680 don't know if I mentioned it to you guys when 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:34.679 the wikileak stuff really started hitting, but there were internal 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:39.720 emails throughout the intelligence industry, which is the right word, 0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:46.120 and throughout the defense industry where people were literally telling 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:49.240 government employees, hey, we know this is out there, it's 0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:52.560 on the news, it's online, just so you know, you 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:54.840 will get in trouble if you read it unless you 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:58.520 have the correct classification. And that was such an attempt 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:01.520 to like close the barn door after the horses have 0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:05.439 stampeded away. We just didn't have the legislation for this, 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:09.240 and that's part of why it rocked the world so fundamentally. 0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:12.720 And that's not even we're not even talking about twenty sixteen, right, 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:18.320 but the emails, because later WikiLeaks released some twenty thousand 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:22.920 pages of emails from the Hillary Clinton campaign, as we'll 0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:26.000 call former Secretary of State Clinton was running for US 0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:30.160 president in twenty sixteen, and also emails from the Democratic 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:33.919 National Committee. It is again not hyperbole to say that 0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:37.240 these altered the course of US politics in a big, 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:37.760 big way. 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:38.800 Yeah, it's true. 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:40.679 I mean the emails which later became part of the 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:42.080 internet catchphrase. 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:43.199 You know. 0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:47.600 But her emails explored and expanded on multiple Clinton controversies 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:51.160 that had already been out there in the public imagination, 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:55.480 and we discussed some of those early on in the 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:59.479 campaign between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump, where we did Trump, 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:02.439 you know, the most popular Trump and Clinton conspiracy theories, 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:05.800 and the Clinton conspiracy theories are massive because they involve 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:09.760 both her and her husband, and the questionable relationship between 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:12.320 the Clinton Foundation and its donors. 0:20:12.800 --> 0:20:15.760 Clinton's kind of you know. 0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:20.640 Close knit relationships, shall we say, with some very powerful 0:20:20.680 --> 0:20:25.760 Wall Street interests that became problematic especially considering that she 0:20:26.119 --> 0:20:28.200 kind of, you know, was trying to cast herself as 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:32.719 sort of the people's candidate and her incredibly close ties 0:20:32.760 --> 0:20:37.239 with very wealthy and powerful campaign contributors. This is just 0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:40.240 you know, beginning to scratch the service. But it's fair 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:43.040 to say that the League's played a huge role in 0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:46.879 the outcome of that year's presidential election. And it also, 0:20:47.119 --> 0:20:49.480 you know, I mean, I think a lot of people 0:20:49.520 --> 0:20:52.200 looked at as Songs early on as sort of this 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:57.159 great equalizer, you know, and trying to take powerful people 0:20:57.200 --> 0:21:00.679 to task. And that's all well and good if the 0:21:00.720 --> 0:21:03.520 outcome is on your side, right, And so I think 0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:07.919 he really became a hugely divisive figure on the left 0:21:08.080 --> 0:21:10.840 when this happened, and it started to feel like he 0:21:11.000 --> 0:21:15.960 was perhaps more interested in getting the other side elected, 0:21:16.000 --> 0:21:19.160 and that became very confusing. Part of his character really 0:21:19.200 --> 0:21:23.800 kind of complicated the relationship with the public and Julian Assange. 0:21:24.560 --> 0:21:28.240 I would say two things here. I recently listened to 0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:32.840 Glenn Greenwald, now of the Intercept, that's how he's best 0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:38.399 known currently, but a journalist who is discussing how Julian 0:21:38.440 --> 0:21:44.240 Assange really does represent a largely hated figure on both 0:21:44.480 --> 0:21:48.120 the political left and right within the United States because 0:21:48.160 --> 0:21:51.520 of you know, the people who would consider him anti 0:21:51.640 --> 0:21:55.639 war or anti you know, military, because of the Iraq 0:21:55.680 --> 0:21:59.880 war logs and other things and the diplomatic cables. They 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:02.359 they very much dislike him from that angle. And then 0:22:02.359 --> 0:22:05.120 from this, like you said, and the people on political 0:22:05.200 --> 0:22:08.040 left very much dislike him because they essentially blame him 0:22:08.119 --> 0:22:12.320 for Hillary Clinton losing the election. One commonality that we've 0:22:12.320 --> 0:22:15.720 seen through these leaks is that it is attempting, at 0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:20.120 least it feels that it's an attempt to show that 0:22:20.240 --> 0:22:23.240 behind the curtain scene of the powerful people in every 0:22:23.280 --> 0:22:25.320 single one of these that we just that we've already 0:22:25.359 --> 0:22:28.840 kind of mentioned here. And I guess when you are 0:22:28.880 --> 0:22:31.679 doing that and showing a peek behind the curtain of 0:22:31.720 --> 0:22:35.400 all powerful people, you're gonna kind of piss everybody off. 0:22:36.880 --> 0:22:40.520 Yeah, yeah, agreed, very much so. And you know, I 0:22:40.560 --> 0:22:45.879 want to ask you guys here just an opinion. You know, 0:22:46.880 --> 0:22:51.119 do are you all of the opinion that this that 0:22:51.200 --> 0:22:55.520 this did significantly atpack the election or was it? I mean, 0:22:55.560 --> 0:22:57.399 how much do you think it swung the needle? 0:22:58.640 --> 0:23:03.639 I would say it swung the needle. I mean, my 0:23:03.680 --> 0:23:07.200 opinion is that. Yes, for sure, it did because it 0:23:07.320 --> 0:23:10.840 changed the conversation that was happening on the news cycle 0:23:11.520 --> 0:23:14.840 almost like right up into the election, right up into 0:23:14.880 --> 0:23:17.520 the day of the election. It really did change what 0:23:17.600 --> 0:23:18.680 people were talking about. 0:23:19.359 --> 0:23:21.399 Oh no, I mean, I think that's there's no question 0:23:21.440 --> 0:23:22.040 about it. 0:23:21.880 --> 0:23:27.360 It absolutely hijacked the conversation in a way that Clinton 0:23:27.520 --> 0:23:31.320 was just not able to put back in that Pandora's box, 0:23:31.560 --> 0:23:36.439 you know, And it really completely took away her power 0:23:36.480 --> 0:23:39.840 to kind of steer the narrative, which, you know, say 0:23:39.880 --> 0:23:43.680 what you will about whichever side of politics that you 0:23:44.040 --> 0:23:48.840 fall on. She definitely was trying very hard to cast 0:23:48.840 --> 0:23:52.800 herself in this light of being kind of the people's candidate, 0:23:52.960 --> 0:23:56.280 of being this sort of you know, even handed person 0:23:56.320 --> 0:23:59.720 that wasn't connected to any kind of wrongdoing and that 0:23:59.800 --> 0:24:03.439 she really cared about the everyman for lack of a 0:24:03.440 --> 0:24:06.440 better term, and this really kind of shattered a lot 0:24:06.480 --> 0:24:08.840