WEBVTT - Play the Record Backwards, Part 1 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:05.360 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of My 0:00:05.480 --> 0:00:14.880 Heart Radio. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:18.120 My name is Robert Lamb, and I'm Seth Nicholas Johnson. 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:20.680 Seth is, of course the producer of Stuff to All 0:00:20.720 --> 0:00:22.960 Your Mind, but he also co hosts the music podcast 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:27.200 Rusty Needles Record Club. Today's episode is going to be 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:30.040 something of a crossover episode because we're gonna be talking 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:32.360 about Stuff to Blow your Mind type stuff, but this 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:36.680 one is going to veer directly into vinyl record territory 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:39.840 for I think a large, a large portion of the episode, 0:00:40.400 --> 0:00:43.120 and especially when you get into that area, I'm I'm 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:46.480 really gonna have to defer to you, seth uh, being 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:49.440 the master of records that you are, and with myself 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:52.320 being someone who was told from an early age not 0:00:52.400 --> 0:00:56.080 to touch records and being an obedient child, I obeyed 0:00:56.240 --> 0:00:59.080 everyone on that and I have virtually not touched any 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:01.640 vinyl my entire life, because that's what grown ups are 0:01:01.680 --> 0:01:04.640 supposed to do. You know, it's not actually a bad 0:01:04.800 --> 0:01:08.040 rule to make for children, because you know they are 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:12.200 very delicate and um not not only um do I 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:15.120 manufacture vinyl on my own, which is has taught me 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:17.840 a lot about it. But also, um, I run a 0:01:17.880 --> 0:01:20.959 record label, so I've had it pressed at at vinyl factories, 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:22.959 and and I'm a big vinyl collector on my own, 0:01:23.480 --> 0:01:26.679 and even me, I'm I'm very familiar with what you 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:29.679 should and shouldn't touch. Basically only touched the rim and 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:33.120 the label never touched the grooves. Even I just because 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:36.320 I'm a human being, I'll be clumsy and drop something 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:38.360 You'll like scratch against an edge and like, well, that's 0:01:38.440 --> 0:01:43.000 ruined forever, you know, So I can't imagine entrusting that 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:46.160 to a child, you know. Uh, That's why children's records 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:48.920 are always just scratched into oblivion. So so you know, 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:52.720 I I understand, and I also understand why even adults 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:56.400 have are hesitance to to to jump into that world. 0:01:56.640 --> 0:01:59.040 But I also see the attraction of it obviously. I mean, 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:02.480 in a weird house, cinema episodes are always pointing out 0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:06.120 which movies score has been re released in some sort 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:11.440 of strange ultra rare vinyl release, and and it's often 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:14.240 beautiful for just from a packaging standpoint, but also when 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:17.280 you get down to the details of the record pressing, 0:02:17.320 --> 0:02:19.160 Like I see the appeal of it. So it's not 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:22.520 for for lack of of occasionally thinking, hey I could, 0:02:22.600 --> 0:02:25.160 I could start getting into vinyl. But but yeah, just 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:27.119 from from an early age I was I was told 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:30.840 shouldn't touch that, and I agree. I mean, it's it's 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:35.280 wonderful for forcing yourself to be actually involved in what 0:02:35.400 --> 0:02:39.280 you're consuming musically. That's my favorite part about vinyl. Sure, 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:42.400 the sound quality is better, There's there's no getting around that. 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:46.320 It is better. But uh, in addition to that, I 0:02:46.360 --> 0:02:49.320 love that I need to put the record on the 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:52.000 little turntable, I need to turn on my stereo, gotta 0:02:52.040 --> 0:02:54.359 put the needle in the groove, I need to wait 0:02:54.480 --> 0:02:57.520 fifteen to thirty minutes, flip it over, put put it 0:02:57.520 --> 0:03:00.320 back on the other side. You know, like like I 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:02.800 have an active interest in what I'm listening to, and 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:04.840 therefore it makes me appreciate it more. It's just like 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:07.919 eating sunflower seeds, you know. Cracking open the shells is 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:10.440 half the fun, you know. Okay, so you give that 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:14.760 tactile experience with it. It's not just a passive series 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:18.080 of zeros and ones being pre chosen by an algorithm. 0:03:18.200 --> 0:03:20.919 I chose this record, I'm putting it on. I'm making 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:24.880 these noises happen in my own small contribution way. So 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:27.560 in this episode, we're going to be talking in general 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:30.840 about things hidden in music. Uh, you might think of 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:33.840 them as easter eggs, um or any other number of 0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:37.160 terms you might use hidden messages if you'd rather. And 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:41.240 we'll also be talking about accusations and panics associated with 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:45.560 some of these techniques, the psychology involved, and specific examples 0:03:45.560 --> 0:03:49.240 from music history. And as we explain these various record 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:51.960 based techniques, I will give some real world examples of 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:54.360 them that you can find in your local record store 0:03:54.400 --> 0:03:56.680 and that hey, I think you should listen to, because 0:03:57.080 --> 0:03:59.680 I think every example I give is something that I'm like, Yes, 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:02.480 I recommend this, go check out out excellent. Yeah. And 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:04.800 some of these examples are gonna come up are things 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:07.839 that were mentioned in papers I'll be citing, but they're 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:10.120 obviously ones in many cases you are very familiar with, 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:12.600 and you can perhaps give a little more background on. Right, 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:16.160 all right, So the first stop is going to take 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:19.680 us back before musical recording was possible, or at least 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:22.480 to a time when the main way to record music 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:25.400 was at least via media, was to put it on 0:04:25.480 --> 0:04:28.640 paper was to write down the music, and even then 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:32.640 a certain amount of of musical encoding is possible. So 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:35.159 we have to be reminded that music is information. So 0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:38.720 it shouldn't come as a surprise that hidden information can 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:42.159 be present in music in ways that predate analog or 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:46.640 digital media. Not even getting into what's possible with language itself, 0:04:46.680 --> 0:04:50.839 because obviously, uh, you know, any given songs, lyrics in 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:54.400 any given language, there's gonna be a enough complexity there 0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:57.320 that you can hide things that you can you can 0:04:57.440 --> 0:05:00.520 sort of get across points, uh, subliminate lee, you can 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:03.719 use metaphors. I mean, all the weapons of language are 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:06.320 at your disposal if you at all know how to 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:10.080 use them when you're crafting lyrics and uh. But but 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:14.359 beyond that, we can certainly look at examples of musical cryptograms, 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:18.400 because basically musical symbols and musical notes can and have 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:24.080 been used in substitution ciphers. And we've talked about substitution 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:26.599 ciphers on past episodes of Stuff to blow your mind. 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:30.000 When musical theorists in the West began to assign letter 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:32.839 names to notes, steering I believe the ninth century, see 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:36.640 it also became possible to turn things around. Uh though 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:39.240 it wasn't until I believe the Romantic period and beyond 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:43.040 that that this was really explored. So you might be wondering, Okay, 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:46.039 what are you talking about here with the obviously we 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:51.240 have notes, we haven't play an A play a B natural, etcetera. 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:54.200 And this is where we see a great example of this, 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:55.800 and this is the one that I mentioned a number 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:59.920 of you're familiar with, um the famed Baroque composer Johan 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:04.960 Sebastian Bach, who through seventeen fifty would employ what we 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:08.320 call the Bach motif. So that's a B flat and 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:11.880 a A c and then a B natural. Now you 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:13.760 might say, well, well that's a B A C B 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:17.640 that what that's that's meaningless? Well, in German a B 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:21.200 flat is B and a B natural is H, thus 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:28.080 spelling out Bach clever. Maybe maybe once it's been explained, 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:31.920 maybe a little too obvious, but but yeah, there it's 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:35.880 an example where he decided to using the system in 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:39.480 place to to to label these different sounds, to then 0:06:39.520 --> 0:06:42.200 turn it around and write is no own name in 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:45.240 the music itself. And there are numerous other examples of 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:47.800 this from other composers you know, I've actually looked this 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:49.760 up before because it is it's a fun idea to 0:06:49.800 --> 0:06:53.720 communicate with the sounds of notes. In fact, I remember 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:57.839 there was a gosh, I believe it was a scene 0:06:57.839 --> 0:07:00.440 in the Paul Thomas Anderson's film Magnolia where they're on 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:02.640 like a game show and these are like what these 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:04.760 are things you'll bring to a picnic and they'll just 0:07:04.760 --> 0:07:07.360 play notes and they'll like spell out the words, so 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:10.280 like e G G. I'll bring an egg that kind 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:12.480 of thing, you know, like it's it's it's something you 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:14.640 can do and it's fun, it's puzzle e it's it's 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:16.600 good times. So I've looked this up in the past. 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:21.080 There are approximately, especially if you include the h as 0:07:21.160 --> 0:07:23.600 as a part of it, around two hundred words that 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:27.640 you can spell using just musical notes, so you know, 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:31.200 things like cabbage head. You know, like these things, these 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:33.680 things are possible, they're they're a part of that language. 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:36.240 So I think it would be difficult, but I bet 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:39.520 you could form a message, you could form sentences, and 0:07:39.920 --> 0:07:43.080 you know, we'll talk more about more examples right now. Yeah, yeah, 0:07:43.080 --> 0:07:47.440 I mean, because you're essentially talking about music obsessed individuals, 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:51.080 total music nerds in different ages just eventually getting in 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:53.480 there and just experimenting with what they could do. Be 0:07:53.600 --> 0:07:59.080 it something that was about creating new sound, elevating the art, etcetera, 0:07:59.240 --> 0:08:02.240 or just having a laugh, and that's those those two 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:06.160 ideas seemed to run throughout the history of of this 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:11.440 kind of hidden messages in music activity. They are also 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:15.840 older examples of musical cryptograms, including the work of Renaissance 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:20.440 musician Joaquin d. Prey lived fourteen fifty five through fifteen 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:25.760 twenty one. He was a French Flemish composer and he 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:32.720 composed a particular work this is Missa Hercules du Ferrari. 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:36.240 It was for the Duke of Ferrara, and the music 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:39.320 is derived from the musical letters in the duke's name. 0:08:40.000 --> 0:08:45.119 A musical cryptogram that was later known is the saghetto cavato. 0:08:45.960 --> 0:08:50.040 Another example, American occultist Paul Foster Case would create a 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:53.720 cryptogram in the twentieth century that made use of esoteric 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:56.800 symbols and concepts, and if I understand what I was 0:08:56.840 --> 0:09:00.960 reading on it correctly, it used occult sim oles Hebrew 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:04.079 and Latin to translate a word into notes. Though the 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:07.839 usage here would be more ceremonial than anything. Um, but 0:09:07.840 --> 0:09:10.719 but one of one of one of several examples will 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:13.360 be touching on that it that either is within the 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:17.800 realm of the occult or we'll touch on examples later 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:20.000 that are more in the area of sort of like 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:25.320 faux occultism or accusations of occultism, etcetera. So those are 0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:28.800 all excellent examples. But let's give our audience one more 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:30.920 that's a bit more modern. Something they can they can 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:34.200 go find a record of right now, the nineteen seventy 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:36.839 seven album Let There Be Rock by A C d C. 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:40.479 They close with a song called a Whole Lot of Rosy, 0:09:40.480 --> 0:09:44.559 where the primary guitar riff goes A C A D 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:48.320 A C A or Akadaca, which is A C d 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:52.839 c's nickname in their home country of Australia. Ah, that's impressive. 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:56.640 I had no idea about that, huh so Johan Sebastian Bach. Also, 0:09:56.720 --> 0:09:59.360 the members of A C d C all all the 0:09:59.400 --> 0:10:03.120 same brain when it comes to coding the songs. Here, yes, 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:07.200 shoulder to shoulder. So there's just there's just a few 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:10.880 brief examples to demonstrate what is It was possible even 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:13.960 before analog and digital media becomes involved in the scenario. 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:16.800 But at this point let's move on to some more 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:20.520 analog examples. So the first thing we're gonna look at 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:24.000 with actual recorded audio is something that I'm sure many, 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:26.720 if not most, of you are familiar with at this point, 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:31.240 either by virtue of various panics over popular music, especially 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:36.960 satanic panic, and it's um reverberations through media from everything 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:42.120 you know, from horror movies to to supernatural television shows 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:45.800 and so forth. But also it impacts actual record and 0:10:45.880 --> 0:10:50.200 actual recording practice, an actual production practice, a technique known 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:53.400 as back masking. So before we get into any actual 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:57.600 examples of back masking or allegations of back masking, and 0:10:57.640 --> 0:11:00.000 this is where it gets, it gets very weird because 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:03.080 it seems like on the surface you would think either 0:11:03.120 --> 0:11:05.320 you're doing it or you're not doing it. And if 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:07.360 you're doing it, truly it's it's provable, but I guess 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:10.960 a little more ambiguous than that. So in simple terms, 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:16.080 this is reversing audio, especially recordings of human speech, playing 0:11:16.080 --> 0:11:20.360 it backwards in a recording. In many cases you know 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:23.880 you know it when you hear it. Basic backwards speech, 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:27.640 which is also sometimes utilized in media for like alien 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:31.000 words or arcane spells and so forth. A lot of 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:34.200 times it's used for creepy effects, and I think we 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:36.120 all we you know what, when you hear it, you 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:38.760 can hear this this sound effect, and it's it's people 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:42.880 speaking backwards. Um, that's what it is. It's almost unfortunate 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:45.560 that we're also familiar with it at this point because 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:48.200 back in the old days, before you know, before we 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:50.240 all walked around with computers in our pockets and we 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:52.640 all have the ability to record ourselves whenever we wanted, 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:56.080 it must have truly sounded foreign. You know, it's it's 0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:59.040 here audio played backwards, and it's been like, wow, what 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:02.040 is that. I've ever heard any creature make that noise before? 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:04.080 And now when we hear it, we just go, oh, 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:06.640 that's that's reverse audio. We know what it sounds like, 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:08.760 you know, we know, we know the hallmarks of it. Yeah, 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:12.600 And I guess with with actual reverse audio, like one 0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:15.360 of two things happens. It just sounds weird and cool. 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:17.920 That sounds like dark magic and so forth, And I 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:21.520 think that's especially nowadays. That's how most of us hear it. 0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:24.880 But also the brain can't help but lean into it, 0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:28.720 and sometimes try and hear things in it. Uh, And 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:32.160 that gets into a whole other area. Now, the other 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:36.840 side of the equation we mentioned allegations um of of 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:42.000 of back masking, erroneous back masking, arguments that, especially um 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:46.400 dangerous seeming rock bands of previous decades, the idea that 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:50.319 they were actually back back masking in a way so 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:55.040 that what sounds like just normal lyrics can be reversed 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:58.400 and have a totally different meaning, usually one that is 0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:01.560 satanic or sometimes not. There's a great episode of The 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:05.160 Simpsons where a joke is made that Paul McCartney uh 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:09.360 snuck in a recipe for lentil soup into Maybe I'm Amazed. 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:12.240 We have to play it backwards to hear it. And 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:16.679 here's actually the really fun part. Over the closing credits 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:19.360 of that episode of The Simpsons, they do play maybe 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:21.520 I'm amazed. This is actually a famous episode. This is 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:23.880 the one where at least becomes a vegetarians this episode. 0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:27.160 That's a great episode. Yeah, and um so uh in 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:29.320 that episode they do play maybe I'm Amazed over the 0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:33.120 closing credits. And if you actually record the closing credits 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:37.120 audio and reverse it, they really did insert a recipe 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:40.760 for lentil soup into that song. It's wonderful. Wow. I 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:43.480 had no idea, not in the real song, only in 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:47.880 the Simpsons episode. Wow. Yeah. So it shouldn't surprise anyone 0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:51.760 that this practice goes back pretty much is as long 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:54.520 as we've had the ability to record and play back speech. 0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:57.080 In fact, I was reading, you know, there's a book 0:13:57.400 --> 0:14:00.960 titled Language, Myths, Mysteries, and Magic from Any fourteen, and 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:04.280 there's an article in there on backmasking by Karen stoles Now, 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:07.720 and the author points out that this actually goes all 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:11.160 the way back to Thomas Edison around eighteen seventy seven, 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:15.520 as the noted American inventor and businessman would would experiment 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:20.160 with playing music backwards I think, notably a whistled version 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:23.480 of Yankee Doodle Dandy um, and this would have been 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:29.320 used via um tinfoil phonograph recordings. He observed that music 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:33.640 quote is still melodious in many cases, and some of 0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:37.280 the strains are sweet and novel, but altogether different from 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:40.920 the song reproduced in the right way. And uh, I 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:44.560 think we're I think this is a realization that certainly 0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:47.520 someone like Thomas Edison was in a position to uh, 0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:51.880 acknowledge and admire back then, and then there's kind of 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:56.880 been a wave of it throughout audio history and certainly nowadays. 0:14:57.280 --> 0:14:58.840 I've never really looked at this before, but if you 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:01.760 go on like YouTube, you'll find so many examples of 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:05.760 people taking music and reversing like whole albums just to 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:08.720 play it backwards and see what happens. Uh. Sometimes they 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:10.960 have a specific thing they're going for, maybe there after 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:12.760 something in the lyrics, or it's one of the cases 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:14.680 that will be touching on later on in this episode. 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:19.160 But other times, especially with I saw the number of 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:25.240 like ambient albums, people just want to experience the album 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:28.760 they love, both both the forwards and backwards. I've got 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:32.640 another little recommendation to throw in here. Okay, So there 0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:36.120 is a wonderful musician and his name, his real name 0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:38.000 is Dave Portner, but he goes by A V taar 0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:41.440 A V tear is most famously from the band Animal Collective, 0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:44.000 but he has a wonderful solo career as well. Uh. 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:46.400 There was a time when he was married to one 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:50.200 of the members of the band Moom and her name 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:52.880 was Krea Breckon. Okay, so they released while they were 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:59.720 married a collaborative album together called Pull Hair Rubbi. All right, now, Um, 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:02.560 when this album first leaked back in the days when 0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:06.040 like leaking was a big issue. Uh, folks would listen 0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:07.760 to and they were like, oh, this is a bad leak. 0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:11.160 It sounds like the entire album is played backwards. Someone 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:12.800 let me know when you get a real version of 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:15.920 the leak. Well, A V. Tare himself came onto these 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:19.440 boards and was like, no, no, that's that's the real version. 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:22.680 When he and his wife had finished recording their album, 0:16:22.720 --> 0:16:25.880 they decided, you know, the entire album sounds better if 0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:28.960 you play it backwards. So what became a pretty straightforward 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:33.520 folk album became a pretty foreign sounding backwards album. And 0:16:33.560 --> 0:16:36.160 it's it's wonderful. It's called Pull Hair Rubb. I. I 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:41.200 highly recommend it, and um, it sounds almost instrumental. It 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:44.320 sounds very foreign, and it sounds very strange because once 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:47.520 they did reverse it initially and they decided, yes, this 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:51.080 whole album just will be backwards versions of every single song. 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:54.280 Then they did start leaning into that. Then they made 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:58.040 special decisions that really highlighted those choices, and it worked 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:01.320 out really well. Genuinely, it's a wonderful album. I think 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:03.920 people should listen to it on a very I guess 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:06.919 kind of simple level. It reminds me a lot of 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:10.760 what's going on with AI and creativity nowadays, be it 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:14.800 with text or visuals, where you have a level of 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:19.359 human uh creativity that's going into the machine, it's getting 0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:22.560 spat out in some form, and then there's going to 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:25.159 be a certain amount of tweaking, either after tweaking to 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:28.280 the resulting material, or then going back and saying, Okay, 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:31.000 now I see what the technology does to what I 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:36.119 started with. What can I do to optimally, um change 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:38.479 the results and make it even more in line with 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:40.960 what I'm trying to create. I think this has been 0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:43.960 something UM that's an element of creativity that people have 0:17:44.080 --> 0:17:46.480 used forever, which is just taking some of the decisions 0:17:46.560 --> 0:17:49.120 out of the hands of the creator to help influence 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:51.399 something else, whether it be like those um you know 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:54.200 those like cut up practices where you're trying to write lyrics, 0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:56.200 so you write little words, put them in a hat 0:17:56.240 --> 0:17:58.600 and pull them out one by one, or um you 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:01.920 know those famous Brian Eno cards where there's like difference 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:04.480 like prompts written on each card that you pull out, 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:06.760 and that's supposed to help you with your production process. 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:10.159 Like you know, there's there's lots of examples of this, 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:12.240 and yeah, no, I think you're absolutely right. I think 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:15.840 AI and intentional reversing just takes a few of those 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:19.440 decisions out of the hands of the artist. Now Stalls 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:23.399 Now also shares an another example from Edison. Edison and 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:26.560 his colleagues were apparently also fond of taking recordings of 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:30.480 someone saying mad dog and playing it backwards so that 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:35.119 it sounded like God damn. And this was this was 0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:38.720 not any kind of early satanic record recording. This was 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:42.560 apparently just pure novelty. They just observed that this was 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:47.000 the case and found it amusing. But it touches on 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:49.480 something that will will keep coming back to the idea 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:53.040 that sometimes when you take spoken language and you reverse 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:57.280 it, it it can sound like other words in that language, 0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:01.640 um and yeah. And then there's a lot of psychological 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:03.560 layering to put on top of that, but we'll get 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:12.399 to that than now. Eventually, real to real tapes came along. 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:14.840 This would have been the nineteen thirties, and it became 0:19:14.880 --> 0:19:19.280 increasingly easy for audio lovers to experiment with the medium. So, 0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:26.679 for instance, French composer Pierre Schaefer lived experimented with tape looping, sampling, 0:19:26.760 --> 0:19:30.119 and back masking, and the use of backmasking would then 0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:33.760 increase among avant garde musicians during the nineteen fifties, according 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:35.879 to stas Now, and and certainly I think a lot 0:19:35.920 --> 0:19:38.360 of you out there can can think of various um 0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:42.920 recording artists who use some of these tools, tape loops especially. 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:47.159 There are a lot of ambient um recording artists that 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:49.440 I can think of that that make use of this. 0:19:50.280 --> 0:19:52.480 But you know, it comes down to just manipulating the 0:19:52.520 --> 0:19:56.280 recorded data at heart. Now, in the history of backmasking, 0:19:56.359 --> 0:19:58.480 it's impossible to talk about all this without touching on 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:00.399 the Beatles. And it's it's not just because of the 0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:04.439 Beatles are are popular and uh and are an easy 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:08.439 uh band of source for all this like that they were. 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:10.440 They really were the ones that are credited with sort 0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:14.240 of bringing back masking into the main stream, both for 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:16.960 for good and kind of also for uh for bad, 0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:20.640 for the you know, leaning into the whole panic area 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:25.720 so um. To be clear, though, all major and serious accounts, 0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:31.040 which which stalls Now discusses in their paper, seemed to 0:20:31.040 --> 0:20:34.680 to to to drive on the Beatles engaged in backmasking 0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:38.760 purely for novelty's sake. Um this entails large. I think 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:41.120 the main examples here three tracks off of the legendary 0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:44.920 nine six album Revolver. That would be I'm Only Sleeping 0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:48.720 Tomorrow Never Knows, but then also the single Rain, which 0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:52.040 wasn't on that album but came out of the same recordings. 0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:55.639 So specifically on these I'm Only Sleeping you have a 0:20:55.760 --> 0:20:59.480 back masked lead guitar part by George Harrison. So George 0:20:59.480 --> 0:21:02.399 Harrison played it one way. When they were tinkering around 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:04.320 if You're going out, you know, how they were putting 0:21:04.320 --> 0:21:06.359 all this together, they said, hey, we like it better 0:21:06.440 --> 0:21:08.960 in reverse. Let's use it that way. It helps create 0:21:09.000 --> 0:21:12.720 this kind of dream like, uh, you know, psychedelic sound. Yeah, 0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:17.200 I'm sure just novelty variety, and probably just purely aesthetics. 0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:20.000 It's just what dictated these decisions for them. I mean, 0:21:20.560 --> 0:21:22.920 and sure maybe maybe part of it was like, hey, 0:21:22.960 --> 0:21:25.480 it'll be funny if people try to reverse these things 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:28.560 because they sound backwards, but I bet that wasn't really 0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:31.439 the primary thoughts. I'm sure aesthetics were the first and 0:21:31.560 --> 0:21:35.399 foremost decision maker there yeah, I've seen it mentioned that 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:37.960 the John Lennon and producer George Martin both kind of 0:21:37.960 --> 0:21:40.480 took credit for the discovery, but both in in kind 0:21:40.480 --> 0:21:42.720 of casual ways, like I think George Martin was more 0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:44.560 along that it was more along the lines of like, yeah, 0:21:44.600 --> 0:21:48.280 we were experimenting and this sounded good, and John Lennon 0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:51.040 was more more likely to say, well, I was really 0:21:51.119 --> 0:21:54.080 high at the time and I kind of discovered it 0:21:54.720 --> 0:21:59.400 either way, though, Yeah, Tomorrow Never Knows also has backwards 0:21:59.400 --> 0:22:02.600 guitar on it, and then Rain stands out a little 0:22:02.600 --> 0:22:06.240 bit because it features backward vocals. So these are popular 0:22:06.280 --> 0:22:09.080 and I guess somewhat obvious examples of back masking in 0:22:09.320 --> 0:22:12.240 the biggest band in the world. And so of course 0:22:12.320 --> 0:22:17.080 this leads to greater scrutiny, great greater awareness of the technique. Um. 0:22:17.600 --> 0:22:19.919 And this is going to mean that that later on 0:22:20.000 --> 0:22:23.760 people were looking at subsequent Beatles albums and saying, well, 0:22:23.800 --> 0:22:26.439 I wonder, what's what's farwards, what back what's backwards? Are 0:22:26.440 --> 0:22:31.399 they using this again? Um? And this ends up this 0:22:31.520 --> 0:22:35.400 ends up leading to a lot of speculation from some 0:22:35.640 --> 0:22:38.200 of the more I guess, you know, conspiracy minded fans 0:22:38.480 --> 0:22:42.400 about what maybe hidden in subsequent albums those stalls Now 0:22:42.760 --> 0:22:45.560