1 00:00:01,800 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: The Superman needed Lex Luthor, the Batman needed to joke. 2 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: And I don't need to pick to put Angel Reese 3 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:09,319 Speaker 1: in some kind of villain as roll because I don't 4 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: consider her a villain. 5 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 2: But I think every great player needs a foil. 6 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 3: The reason why we watch it women's basketball is not 7 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:16,960 Speaker 3: just because of one person. 8 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:17,760 Speaker 2: It's because of me too. 9 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 4: You know. 10 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:19,639 Speaker 2: I don't think there should be any criticism for what 11 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:21,760 Speaker 2: she did. I honestly didn't see it when the game 12 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 2: was going on. 13 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 5: But the story became more compelling, and the desire to 14 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 5: watch and talk about it became more compelling when she 15 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:31,480 Speaker 5: had a foil. Angel won a national championship. She has 16 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 5: four million plus followers. She's at the met Galop Sizza 17 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 5: and Meg thee Stallion want to come sit courtside and 18 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:37,560 Speaker 5: watch her. 19 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 6: Naked Sports. The Making of a Rivalry a six episode 20 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 6: docu series that explores the media frenzy surrounding two super 21 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 6: novas in Kitlin Clark and Angel Reese. I'm your host, 22 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 6: Carrie Champion, and welcome to the Making of a Rivalry. 23 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 5: Oh my. 24 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 4: H to the National Championship Game. 25 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 6: The twenty twenty three National Championship Game. LSU versus Iowa. 26 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 6: The American Airlines Arena in Dallas was alive with screaming 27 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 6: fans and notable dignitaries. 28 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 4: Doctor Jill Biden the first lady in the building, alongside 29 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:16,960 Speaker 4: the legend Billy Jane King. 30 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:21,320 Speaker 6: The narrative going into the Natty America's Darling has delivered 31 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 6: over and over again throughout the tournament. Clark had taken 32 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 6: a team of good players and elevated their playing style 33 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 6: and potential in an unprecedented way. This was Caitlin Clark's 34 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:33,680 Speaker 6: moment to be cropped. 35 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 4: There are stars and there are solar systems. Caitlyn Clark 36 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:39,199 Speaker 4: is the latter. 37 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 6: Television ratings told us how important this game was. Nine 38 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:47,320 Speaker 6: point nine million viewers watched at home, and at the 39 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 6: time the game broke records, reportedly more views than any 40 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 6: women's college basketball game ever, any Stanley Cup game since 41 00:01:56,040 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 6: nineteen seventy three, the twenty twenty one NBA Finals, the 42 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 6: twenty twenty World Series, and the finale of the Last 43 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 6: of Us. These ladies delivered in this historic contest. 44 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 4: Angel Rey's gorgeous delivery Inside. 45 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 6: My friend and former colleague Ryan Ruco was on the 46 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 6: call with Rebecca Lobo. 47 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 7: I'm calling the game, and first of all, LSU their 48 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:21,959 Speaker 7: performance in the championship game is one of the greatest 49 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:25,639 Speaker 7: shooting performances in the history of a National championship game. 50 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 7: They got contributions from all over the place. Alexis Morris 51 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 7: down the stretch was amazing. Jasmin Carson, who had really 52 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 7: struggled in the tournament, hit I think like five first 53 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 7: half threes. 54 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:41,639 Speaker 2: It was crazy. Oursoneral Fire Ange Dick from. 55 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 7: Three you know LSU that whole year there was I 56 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:51,399 Speaker 7: think there was a storyline around them which was accurate 57 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 7: about them being this very you know, fun group who 58 00:02:56,360 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 7: had a flamboyant style. They had really drawn in the fans. 59 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 7: They were setting records for attendance at the PMAC Center 60 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 7: in New Orleans, not just because of their winning, but 61 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 7: because of the way they played. I think l used 62 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:15,799 Speaker 7: to use the term nil NILSU because they have these 63 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:17,639 Speaker 7: players with different nil deals. 64 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 8: Flauger, who has you know, Rotten Nation deal, Angel who 65 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 8: obviously has an incredible following off the court as well 66 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 8: as on, and who was bringing in a lot of 67 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:30,920 Speaker 8: money with the nil as well, And so you had 68 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 8: this team that kind of felt like it felt like 69 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 8: they were you know, rock stars all season long, and 70 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 8: then they get to the championship game and they perform 71 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 8: the way they do. 72 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 9: This super senior Jazmine Carson coming off the bench, scoring 73 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 9: seventeen points in the first half, including this ridiculous banked 74 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 9: half court shot at the buzzer that puts LSU up 75 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 9: double digits and there's just really no coming back from that. 76 00:03:57,800 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 9: Angel Reese looks like Moses Malone, you know, getting out 77 00:03:59,920 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 9: of every single offensive rebound. Alexis Morris is putting the 78 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 9: clams on Kaitlyn Clark. 79 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 6: Sabrina Merchant covered the March Madness Tournament for the Athletic 80 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 6: In that arena, Would you get. 81 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 2: Your first half of the arena? 82 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 9: It was sort of like someone let the air out 83 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 9: because no one really knew what was happening. There was 84 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 9: an expectation of I was going to come in take 85 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 9: care of business, and it wasn't even close. Like LSU 86 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 9: jumped on them and were in control the entire person 87 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 9: half Carson. 88 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 10: Nobody ever thought that that would boil down to would 89 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 10: it boiled down to? But I got to grace the 90 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,599 Speaker 10: floor with two of the biggest female stars that we'll 91 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:43,279 Speaker 10: ever see in our lifetime Angelica, Kit and Leclark, right, 92 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 10: and just to be in that in that moment and 93 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:51,280 Speaker 10: see those who kind of just catastrophically become the face 94 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 10: of women's basketball. It was beautiful. It was something that 95 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 10: we needed and I'm glad I was on the Winnow's side, Ryan, 96 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 10: But overall, you look at that, when you look at 97 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:05,799 Speaker 10: that game, it's like, wow, like this this just changed 98 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 10: our life. This kind of just changed the world, Like 99 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 10: this kind of just changed women's basketball as the whole 100 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 10: were on the biggest stage of being ourselves. It was beautiful. 101 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 10: Then I understand the part that I played in it, 102 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:19,279 Speaker 10: but as a fan of it, I'm just grateful for 103 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:21,919 Speaker 10: the part that angel and Caitlyn played in it, Like 104 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:23,840 Speaker 10: you know what I'm saying, and the way that they 105 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 10: were able. 106 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 4: To just. 107 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 10: Man historically make that a moment, and man, I would 108 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 10: just be grateful to be a part of it. 109 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:35,679 Speaker 6: And LSU freshman familiar with fame beyond the court, Flauje 110 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 6: Johnson had ten seven and four ten points, seven rebounds, 111 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 6: and four assists. 112 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:44,919 Speaker 7: Johnson point grew up inside and Williams all about finish 113 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 7: a really nice job. 114 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 6: John She did more than just play a part. Her 115 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 6: contribution was invaluable, John fifth, and she will always be 116 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 6: known as a member of a sorority that changed the 117 00:05:57,480 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 6: way we see women's sports. 118 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 10: I felt like it was like dang, like we finally 119 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 10: get our just do like you know what I'm saying, 120 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 10: Like it's finally time for women to be on the map. 121 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 10: Like it's finally time where because I've seen this commercial 122 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 10: was like when a young girl want to go play basketball, 123 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 10: they don't go say I want to go play women's basketball. 124 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 10: They say I want to go play basketball, right, And 125 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 10: I was like, this is our time, Like we're gonna 126 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 10: inspire so many little girls to go out and be 127 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 10: confident and be you no matter what. 128 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 6: You know what I'm saying, this is their time. The 129 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,359 Speaker 6: twenty twenty three National Championship Game is known as the 130 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 6: Big Game because history will remember how these women, while 131 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 6: just being themselves, used the national stage to open up 132 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 6: the lens and remove a filter that shadowed the sport. 133 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:47,159 Speaker 6: And when I use the word shadow, I'm referring to 134 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 6: an archetype that existed in professional basketball and as a result, 135 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 6: these ladies never received all of their shine. 136 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 11: I'm Seney gommickay A two time WB ulcer in ESPN 137 00:06:57,480 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 11: analyst and host. I was in the league for ten 138 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:03,359 Speaker 11: years a decade, and it was really cool because I 139 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 11: feel like I was a tweeter, you know. Gone were 140 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 11: the days where I think a lot of times people 141 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 11: looked at the WNBA is like, oh, what is this 142 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 11: a joke? People started to see the copective fire. People 143 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 11: started to see that our game speaks for itself. And now, 144 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 11: I mean I probably left like a year or two 145 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 11: early because everyone's fying charter flights. 146 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 2: Their minds are better. 147 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 11: But I'm still grateful and happy to see the league grow. 148 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 11: These women are household names. Where they go, they stop, 149 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 11: camera shoot, They are the center of attention and that's. 150 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 2: What our league needed. 151 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 11: But more importantly, what I love is that this new 152 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 11: generation of stars, they do things unapologetically themselves. 153 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 2: They are the best at what they do. 154 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 11: They deliver in the biggest moments, Like I never expected 155 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 11: that we would be having this type of season, not 156 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 11: only from individual performances but also collective you know experiences. 157 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 11: You go to WNBA games, they're packed, they're getting upgraded, 158 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 11: they're sold out. You go to WB events, people are 159 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 11: waiting in lines, get autographs, merch is literally out. 160 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 2: Of stores, and so I was worried. 161 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 11: For a hot minute. 162 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 6: I was like, oh, where is this discourse going? 163 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 11: LRD to help us? But I do think it only 164 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 11: made the stars shine brighter. 165 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 6: Cheney and Goo Makay, like most of us, could not 166 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 6: predict how one game would change the world, or how 167 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 6: one gesture could create a narrative. So let's go back 168 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 6: to the game. LSU was up at the half and 169 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 6: in control, but with a little under three minutes left 170 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 6: in the third quarter, the momentum shifts. 171 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 8: Cha Shinado has made it a seven pointeen. 172 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:38,079 Speaker 9: There's you know, that little extra war when Iowa makes 173 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 9: it's come back in the third quarter, and you think, like, okay, 174 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 9: it's like what we think is going to happen actually 175 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 9: gonna happen. 176 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 6: But LSU was not to be denied. They were bigger, 177 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 6: they were faster, and they were just better. With a 178 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 6: little over a minute left in the fourth quarter, poor 179 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 6: good for the dad due So it took us to 180 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 6: the moment, the moment that change. I believe how people 181 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 6: started to watch women's basketball. It's clear that LSU has one. 182 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 6: They're at the free throw line and I see Angel 183 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 6: talking mad trash. 184 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:15,439 Speaker 2: So it's interesting because why I didn't even notice that 185 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 2: it was happening. 186 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:17,679 Speaker 6: I didn't need to see it. 187 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 10: Like I was crying and I was going to hug 188 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 10: Coach Mokey. 189 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 6: I was hugging Coach Mokey. 190 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 10: What I'm saying like, I wasn't even I didn't even 191 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 10: know what was going on. 192 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 7: I think what I said on air was just Angel 193 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 7: Reese letting Kaylin Clark know a ring is coming. 194 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:37,719 Speaker 6: When making of a rivalry returns. Why the ring me 195 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 6: gesture in the last few moments of the big game 196 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 6: sounded an alarm. 197 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 7: In that moment. What I always think is important is 198 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 7: a play by play broadcaster is just describing what's happening, 199 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 7: you know, Like, that's not that's not the moment for 200 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:56,959 Speaker 7: me to give a hot take. And I wouldn't have 201 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 7: even had one in that moment. But I just felt 202 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 7: like I knew. I was like, as it happened, I knew. 203 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:05,960 Speaker 7: I was like, Okay, this is going to be a 204 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 7: talking point after this game is over. This is certainly 205 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 7: going to be a talking point because people will always 206 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 7: latch onto anything that feels juicy or dramatic or controversial. 207 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 4: Back in a moment, and Angel Reese knows a ring 208 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 4: is coming. 209 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 6: I remember watching this game and I was in shock, 210 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:38,559 Speaker 6: shocked by what I thought was going to be a 211 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 6: win for sure for Iowa. You must remember a few 212 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 6: days before they had beaten an undefeated South Carolina team 213 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 6: and it wasn't even close. 214 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 9: South Carolina comes in as the defending national champion, starting 215 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 9: five that has lost maybe eight or nine games together 216 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:57,440 Speaker 9: in their last four years, undefeated throughout the regular season. 217 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 9: It's a nightcap on that Friday, the Final four LSU, 218 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 9: who has already beaten Virginia Tech, which in hindsight is 219 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 9: a dramatically. 220 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 2: More important game than we gave it credit for in 221 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 2: the time. 222 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 9: But you know, Caitlin leads Iowa to this upset of 223 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 9: South Carolina, and the energy in that building is unlike 224 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:18,679 Speaker 9: anything I could remember previously being present for just live, 225 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:22,079 Speaker 9: you know, the tension of like watching a goliath get 226 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 9: slain right, Like, you just don't see that very often. 227 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 2: This is the Caitlin Clark Show. And she puts up. 228 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 9: Forty points another magnificent performance and takes down the Giants 229 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 9: and it's, oh my god, like, what did we just witness? 230 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 6: The world watched as a young woman playing for IOWA 231 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 6: single handedly dismantled the current national champions. There were very 232 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:45,079 Speaker 6: few words to describe what was happening in real time. 233 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 6: Arguably one of the most surreal moments in college basketball. 234 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:52,599 Speaker 1: So it was a shot that Iowa was able to 235 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: knock them out just because again, all around, South Carolina 236 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: was builed as the better team, but Iowa had the 237 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 1: at her game. 238 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 2: They showed up that day and it didn't seem like 239 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 2: a fluke either. 240 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 9: It looked like she was in complete control of that game, 241 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 9: which is not something you expect to see against again 242 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 9: undefeated FENDI national champion, like multiple players going to the pros, 243 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 9: best defense in the country, all. 244 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 2: Of that, you name it. 245 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 6: They had every Alcolay. 246 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 2: I think that's when the switch flips. 247 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 9: She's about to serve herself as the greatest college player 248 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 9: at the generation. Everybody's tuning in to watch her play 249 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:29,439 Speaker 9: and what happens. 250 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 4: Has captured it's very first national championship. 251 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 6: The final score LSU one two, Iowa eighty five. Ryan 252 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 6: Rugo had called a perfect game, but he knew the 253 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 6: outcome had deeper implications. It was a huge win for 254 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 6: women's sports. It would bring more visibility and recognition to 255 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 6: a game that was already growing, But the loss would 256 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:57,440 Speaker 6: also elevate the vitriol of an emotional fan base. So 257 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 6: in the aftermath of the big game, the conversation wasn't 258 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 6: about an incredible turnaround for the LSU program in kim 259 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 6: moulki second year. It wasn't about how LSU had dominated 260 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:11,319 Speaker 6: for the majority of the game. It wasn't even about 261 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 6: what an incredible display of talent we all witnessed in 262 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 6: the championship. The sole focus for the media and the 263 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 6: fans was the ring me can't see me gesture, And 264 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:22,559 Speaker 6: it was nasty. 265 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 7: When someone trash talk is trash talks the darling of 266 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,320 Speaker 7: you know, the country in a game in which you 267 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 7: know she's going to lose, you know people are going 268 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 7: to get frustrated by that and upset by that and 269 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 7: mad by that, and so I kind of I was 270 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 7: able to process like, oh, that's going to be that's 271 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 7: going to be a story in the aftermath. 272 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 9: As Caitlin said repeatedly after the game, like she'd been 273 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 9: dished out the same stuff for five previous games while 274 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 9: she was winning. But like you said, the optics make 275 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 9: people uncomfortable like there was there's a racial element, which 276 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 9: I mean we let it slide on the men's side, right, 277 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 9: like if the male athlete taunts another male athlete, doesn't 278 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 9: really not if they're black and white. It's just two 279 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 9: men going at one another. But there was an extra layer. 280 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:06,440 Speaker 2: Because they're women. 281 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 9: Because we don't let women show their emotions like that 282 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 9: in public. They were not given that same level of grace. 283 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 6: Do you think that coverage to help create a rivalry 284 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 6: if you were, I mean, I had. 285 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 9: No problem with the rivalry being created, because I think 286 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 9: that's good for sport. I think it's good that we 287 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 9: have two great players who are competing for the same goal, 288 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 9: two great teams that are competing for the same goal, 289 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 9: and they run up against one another, and if there's 290 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 9: a little bit of dislike, that's fine. I think everything 291 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 9: that has occurred between Caitlin and Angel has been perfectly 292 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 9: healthy between the two of them, and between Iowa, LSU 293 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 9: and Indiana Chicago's totally fine. The way Angel was portrayed, though, 294 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 9: was not fair to her. I mean I think about 295 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 9: just like some of the language. I don't want to 296 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 9: call anybody out in particular, but just the language that 297 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 9: was used about her like that she was classless and 298 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 9: things that are much worse than that was uncalled for 299 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 9: and not correct and has painted Angel rais and a light, 300 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 9: like a negative light that she hasn't really been able 301 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 9: to come out from, which is truly unfortunate, because like 302 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 9: that was a crowning moment for her, right like literally 303 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 9: national title of most Outstanding Claire, she gets to go 304 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 9: to the White House, and all of a sudden, she's 305 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 9: the villain. 306 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 2: And I do think that. 307 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 9: There's a natural like it's one thing to just be 308 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 9: like the foil to Kaitlin Clark, it's another thing to 309 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 9: be the one everyone's rooting against. And it was just 310 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 9: really unfortunate that this glorious moment for her was tainted 311 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 9: by everybody getting in their feelings about a little bit 312 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 9: of trash talk, which again, that's Angel, that's Caitlin, that's 313 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 9: what they do. And I think that's why we enjoy 314 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 9: sports is because we. 315 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 2: Like a little fire, we like a little competition. 316 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 6: And it is your right of passage, just a rite 317 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 6: a passage you lose, I get to talk to that 318 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 6: is the right of passage. And I've said that over 319 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 6: and over again. It's so frustrating. The way in which 320 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 6: you're describing this is really eloquent, and it's also interesting 321 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:15,479 Speaker 6: to see it from your perspective. But to your earlier point, 322 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 6: we still have this conversation some sixteen months later. Why 323 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 6: have we as a society, we as a culture, basketball culture, 324 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 6: we as members of this entity, refuse to let go 325 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 6: of the black versus white and angels the villain and 326 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 6: Caitlin is being bullied. 327 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 9: Yeah, I wish there was a better answer for why 328 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 9: we have not been able to let go of the 329 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 9: black versus white, But that's just aciety. 330 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: T Rika Foster Brasby, I am a women's basketball reporter 331 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: and analyst. 332 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 6: Funny story, during the. 333 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: Final four, I was actually on assignment where I had 334 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: a chance to talk to each and every team, and 335 00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: I had a different angle for what I. 336 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 2: Was talking to you to all the final four teams. 337 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 1: When it got to Iowa, my angle was, you know, 338 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: you guys think that Caitlyn Clark talks a lot of 339 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 1: smack on the court. I want to know more about 340 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 1: the smack talk that she does on the court and 341 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 1: if she doesn't in the locker room. And about three 342 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:20,119 Speaker 1: players said to me that when she did this on 343 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 1: the court. 344 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:22,639 Speaker 6: It was not at all to a player. 345 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,680 Speaker 1: It was actually to one of the assistant coaches who 346 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 1: had an inside joke with her about something that they, 347 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,400 Speaker 1: you know, were working on in practice, and that was. 348 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 2: The response to the coach. 349 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 1: But from the camera angle, it looked as if they 350 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: were doing it to a different player. And even Hailey 351 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 1: van Litz said, she didn't do that to me, like, 352 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:46,399 Speaker 1: that was not towards me at all. She was playing 353 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 1: for Louisville at the time, so she was like, it 354 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 1: was not to me. I don't know where people got 355 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: that from. So there's already a misconception that she's doing 356 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 1: this to players as a means of kind of talking crap, 357 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 1: when the reality is she wasn't doing it to players 358 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:02,400 Speaker 1: at all. 359 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 6: So it kind of fueled. 360 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: They kind of fanned a fire that actually no one 361 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 1: even knew existed seriously, because it was not towards any 362 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: player whatsoever. So we certainly being there live, didn't see 363 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: it and had no idea that she did it. It 364 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:20,879 Speaker 1: was only after we started to see the replay from 365 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 1: the actual telecast that we could see that Angel Reese was. 366 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 2: Like, oh, okay, got it. 367 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 6: However, there was this conception or perception rather that she 368 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:35,120 Speaker 6: was doing that to players throughout the tournament. At least 369 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 6: I saw her at once say you know, like get 370 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:42,640 Speaker 6: out of here. You're like, oh yeah, she told was. 371 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:45,679 Speaker 1: Talking absolutely, and so that was that's a thing like 372 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 1: she which is what prompted me to do the story 373 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 1: because it was like, girl, you talked, you do this, 374 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: but it just so happened that particular gesture. The irony 375 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 1: is that that particular gesture, which wasn't for a player, 376 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 1: is the one gesture that actually sparked what would probably 377 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 1: be or what looks to be one of the biggest 378 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:12,640 Speaker 1: rivalries in college basketball. Here's broadcast journalist Jamel Hill. Yeah, 379 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,919 Speaker 1: I think about the names that Angel Reese got called on. 380 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:17,880 Speaker 1: So because you know, most like a lot of people, 381 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 1: you watch the game, you have Twitter open, you know, 382 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 1: you're seeing the real time reaction and by some pretty 383 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 1: grown ass people calling Angel Reyes out of her name 384 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: because of what she did. And I'm like, hold on, 385 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:32,120 Speaker 1: once again, it just proves, and this is a staple 386 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 1: in this country, it's not the what, it's the who. 387 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 1: It's always the who. Because she don't look like she 388 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: ain't asking permission to do nothing. She like, Yo, this 389 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:42,919 Speaker 1: is what I am all that like this, this is 390 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:45,160 Speaker 1: what it is like. I got my hair, my lashes. 391 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:49,360 Speaker 1: He's like, I'm doing me And so I love that 392 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: boldness about her. There's a boldness that's there. 393 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 6: She said in one of her most famous quotes, if 394 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 6: you want me to bill and up be the villain, 395 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:00,880 Speaker 6: I'll be the villain. That was something I felt marginalized women, 396 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 6: Black women more specifically can understand. I can be tough 397 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 6: all day. I can do all the things you need 398 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:07,719 Speaker 6: me to do, because that is the role that has 399 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 6: been to signed, and that's probably where I'm most comfortable. 400 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 6: I understand the assignment, and that's probably where I'm most 401 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,919 Speaker 6: comfortable because when I have tried to show vulnerability, it 402 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,160 Speaker 6: doesn't It's never received. And the only time you hear 403 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,639 Speaker 6: me or see me or make or there's movement is 404 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 6: when I am a villain. And that's when I could 405 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 6: relate to her. I think a lot of black women 406 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:29,199 Speaker 6: can relate to her in that way. Why is it 407 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:33,159 Speaker 6: so easy to call her or make her the foil? 408 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 6: Why is that easy for the fans who are the 409 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:38,479 Speaker 6: new fans, the people who are watching it behind the scenes, 410 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 6: the people who might just meet her. Why is that 411 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:43,679 Speaker 6: that assignment given to her so comfortably. 412 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:50,160 Speaker 1: Well, I think because a lot of people have mischaracterized 413 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: her and her passion for the game, and especially because 414 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,680 Speaker 1: she is and we've seen this so much in sports, 415 00:20:57,880 --> 00:20:59,160 Speaker 1: she's the type of player like. 416 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 6: If she's good, she's gonna let you know. 417 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying. 418 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:04,200 Speaker 6: But what's wrong with that? 419 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 2: Man do it? Nothing, it's wrong. Men do it all 420 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 2: the time. 421 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 6: There is nothing wrong with that at all. 422 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:13,120 Speaker 1: But when you're a black woman doing that, you're gonna 423 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 1: pay a different price. When you're a prosecutor trying to 424 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,880 Speaker 1: take down a felon, you're gonna pay a different price. Yeah, 425 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 1: It's like, it's gonna be different, it's gonna be viewed differently. 426 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 1: It's gonna be viewed, it's gonna make people uncomfortable. You know, 427 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:26,919 Speaker 1: they don't you know, they don't like it. 428 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 6: And so. 429 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:32,680 Speaker 1: But I like that she hasn't allowed that to change her, 430 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,639 Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. And so I think to 431 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,640 Speaker 1: have that kind of spirit at that age is really 432 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 1: something because it's something that a lot of women have 433 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:43,920 Speaker 1: to grow into and she just sort of naturally has it, 434 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 1: Like I'm here, and I'm not afraid to tell you 435 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 1: that I'm here. 436 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 2: I'm not shrinking when I come into the room. You 437 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 2: know how it gets hurt for her? I do. 438 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:52,200 Speaker 1: I think it comes at a price, and it comes 439 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: at a toll because mentally, absolutely. 440 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 6: The social media trolls had themselves a time. Grown men 441 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:01,880 Speaker 6: were calling a Jewel Rees and the LSU team some 442 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:05,639 Speaker 6: pretty horrific names. Within minutes, the trending topics on Twitter 443 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,439 Speaker 6: the game Caitlin Clark, Angel Reese, you can't see me. 444 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,399 Speaker 6: Even CNN had called and asked me to be on 445 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:15,119 Speaker 6: the morning show to talk about the ring me gesture. 446 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 2: Joya's right now was Seena contributor Kerrie Chafvick. 447 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,920 Speaker 6: I remember thinking, we just witnessed one of the greatest 448 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:24,160 Speaker 6: college basketball games in recent memory. Women are finally an 449 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 6: invaluable commodity in athletics. But yet and still we are 450 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 6: all focused on the optics. But I also know it's 451 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 6: a captivating storyline. 452 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,399 Speaker 12: I remember like Angel getting called class list and I 453 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 12: was like, and this is for me. 454 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 2: It was like, here we go again. 455 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 6: keV on stage is a comedian and a culture expert. 456 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 12: For me, it makes me want to defend angel. 457 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,920 Speaker 6: Okay, so your perception of her is how you see America. 458 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 12: Yeah, absolutely. I think I am very pro black, straight up, 459 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 12: and I'm a champion for black women and I'm going 460 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:03,159 Speaker 12: to defend black women. So it makes me want to 461 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,879 Speaker 12: be like, all right, Angel, I got you. And Caitlyn, 462 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 12: I'm sorry, it's you know, they're not like us. They're 463 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:09,840 Speaker 12: not like us, they're not like us. But I don't 464 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 12: want to do that to her because she's twenty years old, 465 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 12: twenty one, twenty two years old from Iowa. So she's 466 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 12: also getting a whole new like media landscape and all 467 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,400 Speaker 12: of this, And I think social media made it way 468 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 12: less about basketball very quickly, Like Caitlyn's fans were and 469 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 12: angel Rees fans, everybody like dug their heels in the sand, 470 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 12: and you like chose the side based on how you 471 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 12: see the world as opposed to the actual basketball being played. 472 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 6: And the basketball that was and is currently being played 473 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,360 Speaker 6: is nothing short or spectacular a year and a half 474 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 6: removed from the big Game, and I know these ladies 475 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 6: feel as if they're not being heard, and. 476 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:51,680 Speaker 9: It comes to death threats when it comes to people 477 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:53,400 Speaker 9: finding like I'm talking about, people have. 478 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 2: Come down to my address. No, like it's come down 479 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 2: to that. 480 00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 6: The conversations about the new fans and race are still 481 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,639 Speaker 6: very relevant as the league and the fans adjust to 482 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 6: new standards of expectations. The WNBA finally released a statement 483 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 6: last week after the Indiana Fever Connecticut Sun playoff series. 484 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 6: Caitlin Clark even asked security to remove a heckling fan. 485 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 6: The statement reads, in part, while we welcome a growing 486 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 6: fan base, the WNBA will not tolerate racists, derogatory or 487 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 6: threatening comments made about players, teams, and anyone affiliated with 488 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 6: the league. League Security is actively monitoring threat related activity 489 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 6: and will work directly with teams and arenas to take 490 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 6: appropriate measures involving law enforcement as necessary. Hecklers and sick 491 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 6: of fans will always be a part of the sport. 492 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 6: I know these ladies are aware of that. However, this 493 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,439 Speaker 6: emboldened group of women have zero tolerance for disrespect. 494 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,920 Speaker 3: Kaylen has come hold different audience also that she's ringing. 495 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 3: So I think said they have done great things for 496 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,159 Speaker 3: the w in general, but we already had stars and 497 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 3: all we just didn't I guess. 498 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 2: The eyes on it. I think it was necessary. I mean, 499 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:06,679 Speaker 2: but we have Asian Wilson a god. 500 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,919 Speaker 3: Thomas got Brandon store Like, we already have stars, but 501 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 3: I think that they have definitely helped to. 502 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:12,720 Speaker 4: Grow the game. 503 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 6: That was this year's most improved player, Djona Carrington of 504 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,160 Speaker 6: the Connecticut Sun, which by the way, is the team 505 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 6: that swept Caitlin Clark in the Indiana Fever. But even 506 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 6: Carrington knows there's something special that Caitlyn Clark has brought 507 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 6: to the league. Things changed dramatically when the league realized 508 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 6: Clark felt bigger than just basketball. One of the league 509 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:37,720 Speaker 6: greades and gold medalists, Alyssa Thomas, I think we were. 510 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,399 Speaker 13: Just reflecting a few days ago about how tell, when 511 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:42,400 Speaker 13: we first came in the league, we are had roommates 512 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 13: until you're about six years into the league, so you know, 513 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,200 Speaker 13: it's definitely come a long way from that to charge 514 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 13: of fights, to just the attention around him. 515 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 6: So that's why right now, Chartered flights, better, hotel accommodations, 516 00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 6: more marketing money, merchandise sales, Skyrocket sold out arenas. I 517 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,359 Speaker 6: know some people might not want to hear this, but 518 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,159 Speaker 6: there was the league before Clark and then the league 519 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 6: after Clark. And while I just highlighted the benefits of 520 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 6: Clark in the league. Trust me, it also comes with 521 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:24,440 Speaker 6: some bulls back in a moment, tihuing, Yeah, could. 522 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 13: You when you went and kind of swatted to Caitlin, 523 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 13: did you intend to hit her in the eye? 524 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,360 Speaker 2: And if so, could you dib from f mell out 525 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 2: either way? Could you talk about what happened on that play? 526 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,400 Speaker 2: I just I don't even know why. I wouldn't send 527 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,440 Speaker 2: Ifen anybody in the eye. That doesn't even. 528 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:41,919 Speaker 6: Make sense to me. 529 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 2: But no, I did it. I didn't know I hit her. Actually, 530 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:47,440 Speaker 2: I was trying to make the man on the ball. 531 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:49,919 Speaker 3: And I guess I followed through and I hear so 532 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 3: obviously it's never intentional. That's not even like the type 533 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 3: of player that I am. 534 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,880 Speaker 2: So yeah, did you and Marina laugh about it afterwards? 535 00:26:57,920 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 6: It looked like you there was Later on the game 536 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 6: they cut you guys laughing about it. 537 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 3: No, I just told you I didn't even know I 538 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 3: hit her, So I can't laugh how something I didn't 539 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 3: now happened. 540 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,439 Speaker 6: That exchange between veteran journalist Christine Brennan and Connecticut Sun 541 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,199 Speaker 6: shooting guard dejan A. Carrington illustrates the frustration that players 542 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,959 Speaker 6: are dealing with in a league that has Caitlyn in it. 543 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 6: During the first game of the playoff series, Carrington made 544 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 6: a play on the ball and during the tussle, Clark 545 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,439 Speaker 6: was poked in the eye. Clark says the poke in 546 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 6: the eye was not intentional, and for her part, she's 547 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 6: tried to diffuse that angry mob that wanted to verbally 548 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 6: attack and threaten Carrington on social media because of a 549 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:42,159 Speaker 6: basketball play. Players in the w are injured, inadvertently poked 550 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 6: in the eye, double teamed, shoved, pushed around. It's called defense, folks. 551 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,680 Speaker 6: Sometimes it can be too aggressive, but for twenty eight 552 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 6: years it's been happening. But in a league with Clark 553 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 6: in it, everything that involves her feels too precious and emotional, 554 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 6: and her emotional fan base has decided to make this 555 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 6: an issue. But it's not only her fans. According to 556 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 6: the Players Association, the media is also culpable. Brennan should 557 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 6: ask the question to Carrington about the play, but when 558 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 6: she followed up the question with what seemed to be 559 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:24,879 Speaker 6: an opinion, well, the WNBPA quickly responded with an elevated ether. 560 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 6: In their statement, the Players Association has done something I've 561 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 6: never seen before when it comes to this league set 562 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 6: firm boundaries, identified the problem and demanded a call to action. 563 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 6: This week is dedicated to celebrating and amplifying Asia, Caitlin 564 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 6: Dejane and no FISA for their hard work and truly 565 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 6: exceptional performances all season long. But we will take this 566 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 6: moment now to stand up for them and the rest 567 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 6: of our members, every single one of them, because we 568 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 6: call bs to unprofessional members of the media like Christine Brennan. 569 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 6: You are not fooling anyone. The so called interview in 570 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 6: the name of journalism was a blatant attempt to bait 571 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 6: a professional athlete and to participating in a narrative that 572 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 6: is false and is designed to feel racist, homophobic, and 573 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 6: misogynistic vitriol on social media. You have abused your privileges 574 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 6: and do not deserve the credentials issued to you, signed 575 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 6: the executive Director, Terry Carmichael Jackson. That statement goes on 576 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 6: to read that the Association understands the league must have 577 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 6: a relationship with the media in order to continue growth, 578 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,480 Speaker 6: but they want USA today the paper Brennan writes for 579 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 6: to examine her intentions as a journalist. Every single time 580 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 6: I read that statement, I think this league is stretching 581 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 6: and growing and finding its voice. This league is also 582 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 6: creating boundaries. This league, in real time, refuses to be bullied, marginalized, 583 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 6: and or manipulated. Because the world is now watching, this 584 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 6: league is setting a standard of expectations for themselves, the fans, 585 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 6: and the media. It feels empowering and also inspiring, and 586 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:17,719 Speaker 6: Angel Reese not long after shared the following. For the 587 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 6: past two years, the media has benefited from my pain 588 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 6: in me being villainized to create a narrative. They allowed this, 589 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 6: This was beneficial to them. I sometimes share my experiences 590 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 6: of these things that have happened to me, but I've 591 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 6: also allowed this to happen to me for way too long, 592 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 6: and now other players in this league are dealing with 593 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 6: and experiencing the same things. This isn't okay. Anything beyond 594 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 6: criticism about playing the game we love is wrong. I'm 595 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:51,080 Speaker 6: sorry to all the players that have and continue to 596 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 6: experience the same things I have. This is why I 597 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 6: started my podcast, to take my voice back and create 598 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 6: the narrative of who I really am. At the end 599 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 6: of the day, I don't want an apology, nor do 600 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 6: I think this will ever stop, but something has to change. 601 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 6: Like I said, these ladies are finding their voice and 602 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 6: before anyone listening to this podcast or watching feels as 603 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 6: if this is an assault on Caitlyn Clark. Please stop. 604 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 6: Caitlin Clark's a great player. I'm sure we will see 605 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 6: her as a generational talent. But there is a new 606 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 6: following of fans and they are toxic. Caitlyn has called 607 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 6: them trolls and not fans, and it should be called out. 608 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 6: But the league with Caitlyn Clark in it arguably is 609 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 6: a better place and will be a better place. Her 610 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 6: impact is undeniable, akin to a Beyonce or a Taylor Swift. 611 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,480 Speaker 6: Just like there's the Beehive or Swifties, there are Clerky's, 612 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 6: for lack of a better term, I think there's a 613 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 6: Taylor Swift effect with Caitlyn Clark. It feels like everything 614 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 6: she touches, everywhere she goes selling out arenas. People want 615 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 6: to be around her, People love her. I have people 616 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 6: asking me about the game because of her who've never 617 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 6: asked about the game. There's this, yeah, this very this. 618 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:10,840 Speaker 6: I have to be a part of her, be around her. 619 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 6: What is she doing? What is she saying, do you 620 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 6: see the correlation? She has a tailor swift effect. I'm 621 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,720 Speaker 6: selling out arenas if I want to go. As my 622 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 6: assistant said to me, I'm online. I'm online virtually to 623 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 6: get these I've been waiting for five hours. I didn't 624 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 6: get my tickets. When I used to hear people talk 625 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 6: about the emails errortors, I was like, what do you 626 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 6: mean You're waiting for five hours to get the damn tickets? Yeah, 627 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 6: and that's how I feel people are obsessed with one. 628 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 2: Caitlin, I agree. I think there's definitely some correlations there. 629 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 5: I think also this idea that like the snowball, will 630 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 5: keep growing the more hype everybody else is about it. 631 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 5: I've used this analogy. We have not done a great 632 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 5: job of creating community. And community is where people find 633 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 5: identity instead of just listening or watching I am a swifty, 634 00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 5: not I. 635 00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 2: Listen to Taylor Swift. 636 00:32:58,480 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 6: That's your to me. 637 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 2: This is a concept that's been. 638 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 5: Used in really broad scale, like really important things like voting. 639 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 5: They changed the language from I voted to I am 640 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 5: a voter because they said, we want your identity to 641 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 5: be that you're someone that votes, not that that's a 642 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,960 Speaker 5: thing that you sometimes do and that works across every space. 643 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:19,760 Speaker 5: And if you look at the research, there are very 644 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 5: few things that people consider part of their identity with 645 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 5: the same weight that they do say religion or their country, 646 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 5: and one of them is sports. Yeah, And so I 647 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 5: think what we've seen with people like Taylor Swift or 648 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 5: Beyonce or Caitlyn Clark is it goes beyond I like 649 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 5: this person, I'm a fan to my identity is I'm 650 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:41,080 Speaker 5: part of the behive. 651 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:43,760 Speaker 6: Which is why I'm a swifty. They love Island Clark. 652 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 6: I'm a case because. 653 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 5: They can create a narrative around going to see her 654 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,480 Speaker 5: and watch her as opposed to just I like basketball 655 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 5: or it's it's not women's basketball, it's Kaitlyn Clark. 656 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 6: Like. 657 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 5: The way people have talked to me about her that 658 00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 5: have never once talked to me about anything in women's sports, 659 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:01,960 Speaker 5: despite me working in it' sports for a decade plus 660 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 5: is it's a different thing. And listen, you can be 661 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,720 Speaker 5: cynical about it, and there are reasons to be cynical 662 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,040 Speaker 5: about only caring about Kaitlin Clark and no one else, 663 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 5: but you can also say bottle that up and see 664 00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:16,920 Speaker 5: how you can help everybody else with it too, can 665 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,040 Speaker 5: call it up and build the game and grow. 666 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,960 Speaker 6: The game, all that and more and Episode five, the 667 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,880 Speaker 6: Making of a Rivalry Kitlin Clark versus Angel Reese is 668 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,280 Speaker 6: a Be Honest production in partnership with the Black Effect 669 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:32,240 Speaker 6: Podcast Network in iHeart Women's Sports. Written and executive produced 670 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 6: by me Carrie Champion. Supervising producer is Arlene Santana, Produced 671 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 6: by Jack Vice Thomas, Sound design and mastered by Dwayne Crawford. 672 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 6: Associated producer Olublusail Shabby. Naked Sports is a part of 673 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:50,319 Speaker 6: the Black Effect podcast Network in iHeartMedia. Hey everybody, if 674 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 6: you're new to Naked Sports, welcome to the podcast, And 675 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,879 Speaker 6: for those who've been with us in season one, thank 676 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 6: you for right now. We're kicking off season four with 677 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 6: this six episode dot that you're listening to right now, 678 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,279 Speaker 6: and after that, Naked Sports will continue to live at 679 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,799 Speaker 6: the intersection of sports, politics, and culture for covering all 680 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 6: things from the presidential race to the WNBA Rookie of 681 00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:14,880 Speaker 6: the Year contests. This season will be bold, as you 682 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:18,759 Speaker 6: can already tell, no holds barred, but also we'll bring 683 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:23,040 Speaker 6: you that same vulnerable storytelling technique that makes our show 684 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 6: so very unique. We appreciate you for being here and 685 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,200 Speaker 6: thank you all for the support. We'll talk to you 686 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:29,840 Speaker 6: next week.