WEBVTT - Happy Cooking with Jacques Pépin 0:00:02.400 --> 0:00:05.560 This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the 0:00:05.600 --> 0:00:10.520 Thing from iHeart Radio. My guest today has worked in 0:00:10.560 --> 0:00:14.200 the best restaurants in the world, taught thousands of hours 0:00:14.200 --> 0:00:18.800 of culinary technique, authored over thirty cookbooks, and at the 0:00:18.840 --> 0:00:22.440 age of eighty eight, shows no signs of slowing down. 0:00:23.239 --> 0:00:28.480 Legendary French chef Jacques Pepin Chef Pepin has enjoyed, by 0:00:28.520 --> 0:00:33.680 all accounts, a most extraordinary life and career. By twenty two, 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:37.200 he was the personal chef for French President Chaules de gaul. 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:41.760 In nineteen fifty nine, he immigrated to America and worked 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:45.360 at Le Pavillon, the best French restaurant in New York City, 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:51.000 before moving to Howard Johnson's. His next frontier was the 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:56.279 American home, instructing audiences on proper French cooking methods. This 0:00:56.400 --> 0:01:00.800 began with his cookbooks, including the groundbreaking La Techiechnique, and 0:01:00.840 --> 0:01:05.800 then through multiple PBS series like Today's Gourmet and Cooking 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:10.320 at Home. Here, Chef Papin taught the home chef both 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:15.800 the basics for everyday meals and experimentation with gourmet flourishes. 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:20.480 His most recent cookbook is called Jacques Papine cooking my 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:25.880 way recipes and techniques for economical cooking. I wanted to 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:28.440 know how growing up in a small town in France 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:32.160 with his mother working in restaurants put him on the 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:33.840 path to where he is today. 0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:37.400 Where we were in the film country, we had a 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:42.200 little restaurant just outside of Lyons. The life was quite different. 0:01:42.880 --> 0:01:45.600 I mean, I tell Nady eight yesterday, so I'm thinking 0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:50.080 about over eighty years ago. Life was relatively easy. My 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:52.880 father with a cabinet maker, my mother with a cook. 0:01:53.400 --> 0:01:56.120 So my choice in life was I'm a cavenet maker, 0:01:56.200 --> 0:02:00.440 I'm a cook, within the telephone, within the radio revision 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:03.480 of course, any of this. So life was probably much 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:08.880 easier for kid than he is now. And we took 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:12.600 the dog, my brother and I go into the forest 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:15.760 and all that on all day off and the parents 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:18.600 never you know, we came back at night and no one. 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:21.640 Worried about where you were. It was. It was quite 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:23.000 different than now. 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:26.520 Did your father take his cabinet making practice out into 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:28.280 the country with you just outside of the or did 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:30.600 he stay in the city and makers products. 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:33.640 No, he did that in the country, but after he 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:35.760 gave up anyway at some point to work in the 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:39.600 restaurant with my mother. But my father was a cabinet maker. 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:42.440 His father was his brother was what we could in 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:47.799 France ebonist from the world ebony. So it's fancy cabinet maker. 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:48.120 You know. 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:52.799 He used noble wood like cherries, oak and so forth. 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:56.160 Never use any nail. It's alas you know, curt and 0:02:56.240 --> 0:03:00.280 joint and glue and a sculpture on the wood to 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:02.480 that type of work. And the wely the sixteen with 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:05.959 seventeen kind of furniture. I should have a couple of 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:08.640 peace from him actually in my house. 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:12.600 Now, your mother got into the restaurant business when you 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:13.160 were how old? 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:17.200 Well after I was born, because I have exactly twenty 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:20.440 years different with my mother. I mean she got married 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:22.960 I think she was seventeen and a half. Then at 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:24.919 my brother with a year and a half older than 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:28.080 me than me and another one. So she got into 0:03:28.080 --> 0:03:31.520 the restaurant business before the war. Slightly before the war. 0:03:31.600 --> 0:03:35.480 She was a waddressed working different restaurants self, helping in 0:03:35.480 --> 0:03:38.040 the kitchen. It was pretty common in France, I mean 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:41.240 in the family. In France, I come twelve restaurant, twelve 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:44.560 of them run by women. My two aunts and sister 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:49.320 in law, cousin, a niece, a mother, they all had. 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:52.560 I was actually the first male to go into that business. 0:03:52.760 --> 0:03:56.160 And those kind of a formidable women who were not 0:03:56.320 --> 0:03:59.360 very empressed by me. I remember when I was the 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:02.560 chef to the president in France. Go back down to 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:05.200 Leon Goo to my aunt at a little restaurant. I 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:07.360 get into the kitchen. She drove me out. She said, 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:10.760 you used too much. Better get out of here. They 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:12.320 were not very unpressed by me. 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:15.080 And who's managing all this enterprise? Your mother? 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:18.920 Oh, they didn't have twelve restaurants at the time. I'm 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:21.520 calling you general. And my aunt at a restaurant in book, 0:04:21.920 --> 0:04:24.920 another aunt at a restaurant somewhere else, my mother at 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:27.320 three four restaurants actually at some point. 0:04:27.560 --> 0:04:30.240 And what was it about? I mean, so, I'm assuming 0:04:31.000 --> 0:04:32.719 you feel like you were born to this. There's no 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:36.480 way you could escape. And you said cabin making or cooking, right, 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:39.480 But you found the kitchen more seductive. 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:43.560 Correct, absolutely more exciting or seductive, And so I went 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:45.920 into this. I mean now, I said, the choice was 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:50.200 relatively easy for kid at that point. And first we 0:04:50.200 --> 0:04:53.440 were supposed to go to school in teenage fourteen, which 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:57.719 I did at thirteen, and I took all the exam 0:04:58.080 --> 0:05:00.880 you know at the end of primary school, the front exam. 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:02.840 So I took all of those and I finished when 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:06.039 I was early thirteen. So I say that's it. I'm 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:09.360 going into a frightdiceship. My older brother became an engineer, 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:11.680 so it worked, you know, so it was not a 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:14.320 question of me that I had to go to work. 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:17.760 That's what I wanted to do, so and I went 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:18.520 to school later. 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:21.880 So do you think that people, I mean, there's next 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:25.120 to no association between what I do for a living 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:26.880 and what you do for a living. But in the 0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:31.320 world of acting in theater and so forth, people will 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:34.000 often say, I can't make you a good actor, but 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:35.800 I can make you a better actor than you were 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:38.279 when you walked in the door. But there needs to 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:41.880 be some inherent inspiration. That is that thing true about 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:44.560 food and cooking? Do people have to have an inherent 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:45.720 gift for that kind of thing? 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:47.080 Yes, certainly. 0:05:47.120 --> 0:05:50.760 I mean for me, I'm talking about professionalism, professional chef 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:55.039 and on a professional chef. I did those book called 0:05:55.080 --> 0:05:58.480 a Technique, which is an illustrated manut of cooking technique 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:01.200 to know to bon out. You can to poach an 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:03.320 egg and it's not a question of knowing how to 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:05.839 do it. It's eleven o'clock and you have one hundred 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:07.200 people sitting down for lunch. 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:10.200 You really have to move. So this is the difference 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:12.640 between a professional chef and a home cook. 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:15.400 You know, the speed and all that too. So you 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:18.200 have to be a good technician to be a chef first. 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:21.280 But I know a fair amount of a chef who 0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:24.440 a good technician, run a good kitchen and are relatively 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:28.000 lousy cook. The food is all right. But conversely, I 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:30.400 know people who cook at home who wouldn't be able 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:33.239 to run a restaurant speed and all that, but food 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:36.280 is fantastic, great, you know. So to be a great 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:39.680 chef like Tomas Keller or Daniel Buru, well you have 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:41.680 to be a technician first, but then you have to 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:44.159 have other things after. You know, you have to have 0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:47.200 imagination talent to bring it to another level. 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:50.839 You know. I think eventually you moved to Paris, yes, 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:53.800 and I don't want to quote the number here because 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:56.640 I find this fantastic. You work in many, many, many 0:06:56.760 --> 0:06:58.840 restaurants during that period, correct. 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:01.799 Close to one hundred how is that possible? 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:04.880 Its possible because I work at the Plaza and in 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:07.839 Paris for like seven years, put my day off. 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:09.360 Each day off, I work at. 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:11.720 A different restaurant most of the time, and that two 0:07:11.760 --> 0:07:14.960 days off a week. There is an organization called associated 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:17.880 the Quasi Society of the Chef of Paris, which I 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:20.480 will a member. In fact, I don't know why we 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:22.600 don't have that in New York. But you go in 0:07:22.640 --> 0:07:25.680 the morning or someone your cook doesn't come or whatever 0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:27.600 doesn't come, they call they say I need one cook 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:30.400 for the day. So you know I will end up 0:07:30.440 --> 0:07:32.720 like at Messi, you know, Galley la Fayette to and 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:36.240 do like three thousand plates with a slice, a piece 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:38.640 of salad in between an egg, you know. And the 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:41.040 next time I end up in a two star restaurant 0:07:41.320 --> 0:07:43.600 and next so you never know where the society is 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:47.320 going to sign you. But that was great experience, you know, 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:51.080 of working because in case like this, it's not like 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:53.600 you have to wait for the day to learn the 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:56.680 habit of the house. I mean, within fifteen minutes you're there, 0:07:56.720 --> 0:07:58.119 the chef say you got to work. 0:07:58.360 --> 0:07:59.640 So it's great training. 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:02.320 So you have a job in one where you were 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:04.600 at tattanay. Oh, yes, and you have a job. But 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:06.960 it sounds you sound like we've had guests on the 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:11.160 show who were some of the most legendary sessions musicians 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:13.280 in history, right, and it sounds like you have the 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:14.880 same kind of thing you're you're going to go in 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:19.000 for a day and and is the culture there, I 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:22.240 don't want to say uniform, but approachable where you can 0:08:22.320 --> 0:08:24.800 walk in and you're just accepted you walk in there 0:08:25.040 --> 0:08:26.800 or do you see the other conflicts with the way 0:08:26.840 --> 0:08:27.440 things are done? 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:31.080 Sometimes No, No, if you work on a job to 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:34.000 stay for a couple of years, you may get involving 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:36.640 into that type of thing. But when you work for 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:39.640 the day two days, no, And remember that at the time, 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:42.760 the cook was really at the bottom of the social scale. 0:08:43.160 --> 0:08:46.080 Any good mother, I wanted a child to marry the lawyer, 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:50.880 you know, a doctor, certainly not a cook. So now 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:54.440 we are genius. I don't know what happened at that time. 0:08:54.480 --> 0:08:56.760 It wasn't okay. So when you went into a restaurant, 0:08:57.000 --> 0:09:00.319 it was to conform exactly to the habit of that reason. 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:03.240 It was not to create or do something on your own. 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:05.679 In fact, I don't think I ever used a recipe 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:08.480 before I came to America. So you work in that place, 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:12.720 you learn the taste of that, and those dishes in 0:09:12.720 --> 0:09:16.440 a sense become very visceral, very powerful. I mean the 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:19.040 dishes my mother did as a kid. You know, those 0:09:19.040 --> 0:09:21.760 states will stay with you the rest of your life. 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:25.199 And I'll go the pleasure. And in Paris, for example, 0:09:25.240 --> 0:09:27.760 we did the lobster soufle. We were a forty eight 0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:31.360 chef in the kitchen there, and the forty eight of 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:33.040 us could have done it, you would never have known 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:33.840 who has done it. 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:35.240 That's was the way it was. 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:39.040 Until Nouvelle Cuisine in the mid eighteen ninety when the 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:43.120 chef started creating and doing that type of thing, which different. 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:48.360 Now now you're a hired chef for the president of France, 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:51.199 right and you work with the gall and some other 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:53.040 heads of state. How long were you doing that job? 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:56.400 From fifty six and fifty six to fifty eight and 0:09:56.440 --> 0:09:58.360 the fifty eight I came here at the end of 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:00.960 fifty nine, you know, so you have to realize that 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:02.960 at the time. Again, as I said, the cook, I 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:07.720 serve people like either know where Nehru Tito mcmilland over 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:11.320 the head of state. Not anyone ever would call you 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:12.920 to get kuru in the dining room. 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:15.360 Are you kidding? The cook was in the kitchen. That 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:15.680 was it. 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:18.680 If anyone came into the kitchen because something was wrong 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:22.480 towards two complaints. So I had never had an antio. 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:27.320 Television barely existed, but with radio or magazzine newspaper that 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:28.240 didn't exist. 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:29.840 So it was a different world. 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:33.400 So you're at what is certainly one of the summits 0:10:33.720 --> 0:10:35.719 of cooking in France. If you're cooking for the head 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:39.600 of state. There you have this amazing job, and then 0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:41.160 when you're done in fifty eight, you moved to the 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:42.000 United States. 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:45.440 Correct, Right, at the end of nineteen fifteen, I moved. 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:47.200 I wasn't married. 0:10:47.280 --> 0:10:50.040 At a great job in France, my brother at a restaurant, 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:51.960 but I wanted to come to America. 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:52.679 America. 0:10:52.720 --> 0:10:57.880 I was she leaves the Golden fleeceh. So I said, 0:10:58.120 --> 0:11:00.160 I want to go there for a year, two years, 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:02.680 maybe learn the language a little bit, see what's going on. 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:06.880 I was unattached to So I came here at the 0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:09.439 end of fifty nine and I'm still here. 0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:13.080 But you what you see up till then, before you 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:14.959 settle in the United States, it's it's safe to say 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:16.360 you have a very restless nature. 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:20.480 Yes, has an extent, but that's what the world of 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:23.480 food was in a center, restless, moving from one place 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:26.679 to the other to learn because if you keep your 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:28.800 eye open, I mean, I can't work with anyone now. 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:31.160 And you learn something, you know you will never have 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:33.720 sort of doing it this way too. Sometimes you learn 0:11:33.760 --> 0:11:37.960 what not to do, but you learn something. But yeah, 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:40.880 so in that sense, coming to America was different. It 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:42.640 was the first time I work at the Pavio in 0:11:42.679 --> 0:11:45.920 New York, was considered, you know, the best restaurant here. 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:48.240 And it was the first time that I did my 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:52.640 day in one in one shift. In France, we still 0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:54.800 did two shift. I start nine o'clock in the morning 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:58.120 until two o'clock in the afternoon. You're from from two 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:00.840 to five, go sit down, sod where and at five 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:04.840 you start five to nine or ten. But was standard, 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:07.960 you know, so here I started doing it was one shift. 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:10.040 I saw it was like half a day of working. 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:13.040 That's where I started going to school and did other things. 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:15.920 I had plenty of time and the people, I have 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:19.320 to say, at the time were very, very welcoming. I 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:21.640 mean they say, oh, you come from a great country. 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:24.959 We have so much culture, you know. So I said, wow. 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:27.640 I talked to the people in France I left. They said, 0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:29.520 what are you doing? They don't even have bread. There 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:33.880 would have wine free, you know at the time. But yeah, 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:37.600 people were extremely welcoming here. So I loved this. Things 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:41.000 went on, one thing after another, and I'm still here. 0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:44.599 But the thing is, you come here and you have 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:46.000 pavion for how long. 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:49.200 I w a the paveo not too long, from September 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:52.679 until next April six seven months. At that time there 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:56.679 was a problem with Suley, the owner, and all kind 0:12:56.679 --> 0:12:59.560 of problem with them. Pierre Frede who was the executive 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:03.800 chef and the outcome with Suley in nineteen thirty nine 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:07.000 for the Worldfare at a Young Coming and he stayed there. 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:10.200 Eventually he was the executive chef when I was there, 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:14.479 a problem with Soule and he decided to leave. And coincidentally, 0:13:14.559 --> 0:13:18.200 at that time, Howard Johnson, Howard D. Johnson, who created 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:22.040 Howard Johnson whether regular patron of the Pavilon. So he 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:24.079 I ad Pierre and Pierre told me you want to 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:26.800 come with me? And I said Okay, great ideas. So 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:28.600 that's that's what happens. 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:31.280 Okay, let's stop there because this is the term that 0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:33.959 this is so amazing to me. So you hit the 0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:36.240 summit in France, you're cooking for the heads of state. 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:38.520 You come to New York, you're a Pavinon in New York, 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:42.440 and the Howard Johnson, the namesake of the business, comes 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:44.400 to Pavinon. Is he a regular? Yes? 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:45.120 Regular? 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:47.360 Okay, so he's a regular there and he gets you 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:53.320 to come and cook for the Howard Johnson's restaurant chain. Correct, Yes, absolutely, 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:56.599 How the hell did he do that? How did he 0:13:56.679 --> 0:13:57.400 get you to come? 0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:01.040 No, he actually asked Pierre to come, and Pierre decided 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:03.040 to go, and Pierre told me, you want to come 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:05.640 with me to assist me and do and that's how 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:08.200 I did. But the point is that, as I said, 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:11.719 the cook was quite different than now, because on that 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:14.480 spring of nineteen sixty, I actually I would have felt 0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:17.280 the job at the White House for Kennedy and then 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:20.160 but I had done that, as I said, in France, 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:22.520 I had never been on a magazine newspaper, so I 0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:26.720 had no idea of the potential for publicity too, because 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:29.400 it really did not exist. In fact, the one who 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:31.800 went to the White House with a front of mine 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:33.520 who was the sou chef at the six House in 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:35.920 New York, and I called him, put them in touch, 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:39.160 eventually got the job, and a year later he sent 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:41.680 me a picture of him with President Kennedy or missus 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:44.160 carry as Wow. I never had a picture with the 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:48.520 goal of So it was already changing a different world. 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:51.280 But prior to him, who was a chef at the 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:51.880 White House? 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:52.680 I asked? 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:55.320 And it ended up knowing that it was a black 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:58.360 lady from the South somewhere. No one would have known 0:14:58.400 --> 0:15:01.160 her name, no more than the my name or whatever. 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:03.560 So it was a different world. We have to look 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:07.400 at it in that context. And Haward Johnson, what another 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:10.640 world for me? American eating, American habit. 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:12.240 Well, that's what I want to ask you, which is 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:16.400 when you come here, yeah again, Head of State France Pavillon, 0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:19.280 you get offer the White House job. What's the first 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:21.480 thing you're in New York? Correct? You settled in New York. First, 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:23.760 what's the first thing that strikes you about the way 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:25.920 Americans eat in American restaurants? 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:30.400 Well, I live on fiftieth between first and second avenue 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:33.560 on top of a little restaurant called Lettock Blanche near 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:34.480 a certain. 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:36.320 Place for a very nice area. So they are a 0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:39.920 superhil market, which happened my first SUPERI market. I thought 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:41.800 it was great. I didn't have to go to the. 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:45.160 Fish guide, the vegetable guide and so forth. But then 0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:48.280 there was a lot of package package package. Then there 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:52.600 was some good meat, beef, lamb lobster, but there was 0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:55.480 only one salad that was iceberg. There was no leak, 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:59.440 no shallow, no intel visible. I remember saying, what are 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:02.480 the mercioms. Let's say Aisle five that was ken mushroom 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:05.680 there you didn't have any. So it was undo the world, 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:08.200 you know, in terms of course had the pavillon. We 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:11.520 had great supplier even from Europe, from different parts or 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:12.800 the fish and all that too. 0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:17.040 But yes, it certainly it was different. 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:19.760 So in France it's very compartmentalized. You go to the 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:21.280 fish market, you go to the butcher, you go to 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:24.400 the vegetable. It's all separate, the bakery, everything is separate. Now, 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:28.880 I mean, I can only say this because it's true, 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:32.320 and that is that for me, Howard Johnson's occupied a 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:35.240 very specific place because as a Catholic in the sixties. 0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:38.720 As a child, we couldn't eat meat on Friday, so 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:43.280 the Howard Johnson's fish fry on Fridays was a staple 0:16:43.320 --> 0:16:45.320 in my house. Going to have the cost law and 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:47.520 the hush puppies and the corn or whatever it was, 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:52.840 and you know, fried clams. But Howard Johnson's for the 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:55.800 guy that's a restless guy, for the guy that's moving 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:58.080 around and trying things. You stayed with Howard Johnson's for 0:16:58.240 --> 0:16:59.600 ten years, is that correct? 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:00.280 Yes? 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:00.800 Why? 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:04.760 Well, to start with how Old Johnson, the father came 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:07.600 to my wedding, He came to the christening of my daughter. 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:11.320 So they were used to come to the commissary and 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:14.240 Pierre fred and he said, okay, you guys do whatever 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:18.480 you want to. We start changing butter instead of margarine 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:22.000 fresh and uness and the hydrated onion. We start changing 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:25.119 all the recipe and start working in the kitchen with 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:28.600 four four chicken to do a chicken pot pie, and 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:30.760 we end up with three thousand pound of chicken at 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:33.680 the time. You know, I move on on the in 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:37.040 thousand gallon kettles. So it was the last production, you know, 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:41.000 when I finished Howard Johnson I opened a restaurant on 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:44.040 Fifth Avenue, cool a potagerie in New York. We sell 0:17:44.080 --> 0:17:46.639 only soup, and I were a consult time for the 0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:49.280 World Trade Center for Joe Baum. We saved one hundred 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:52.200 thirty thousand people a day about a consultant at the 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:56.960 Russian teeroom. I'm saying only that because other French chefs, 0:17:56.960 --> 0:17:58.680 I would never have been able to do any of 0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:03.280 those jobs. I didn't do anything about production, marketing, chemistory 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:06.760 of food. So Howard Johnson was a good experience for me. 0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:07.520 I learned a lot. 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:10.680 The book is the technique. So the technique is as 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:13.480 important to you as the artistry preparing food in a 0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:18.920 certain way. Because you've mentioned repeatedly in interviews programs of 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:22.680 yours and then your writing about your mindfulness about economics 0:18:22.920 --> 0:18:25.040 in cooking. Yeah, don't waste anything. 0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:29.080 Yeah, economic of motion as well as economic of food 0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:30.200 and so forth. 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:32.880 And the technique. I publish that technique. I think it's 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:36.280 seventy four or five. It's still in print. I don't 0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:38.400 cook the same way that I cook fifty years ago 0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:40.919 or two, but the way you shop on a knife, 0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:44.720 you know. Peter n Asparagoz Porch and egg is the 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:47.439 same way. So those books of technique kind of remain 0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:48.240 because of that. 0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:58.879 Chef Jacques Pepin. If you enjoy in depth culinary conversations, 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:02.520 check out my episode with Chef Eric Repair of the 0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:04.199 legendary Le Bernadelle. 0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:07.720 What I like about Europe is the quality of the products. 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:10.960 When they serve vegetables, they test like what you're supposed 0:19:10.960 --> 0:19:15.119 to taste. Here's a bit of a challenge because we 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:17.240 do not cultivate the same way. 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:20.359 You know, like the soil is maybe not the same. 0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:23.359 I don't know, Like an artichock in a Mediterranean is 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:25.199 not the same artichock that we eat here. 0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:27.360 And you know, it's like those. 0:19:27.240 --> 0:19:31.040 Gigantic farms, and they have ways of cultivating and maximizing 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:34.320 the land and factory its factories the artichoks are grown. 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:40.680 To hear more of my conversation with Eric Repair, go 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:44.840 to Here's the Thing dot org. After the break, Jacques 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:49.040 Pepette tells us where a world famous chef dines in 0:19:49.200 --> 0:20:03.240 his downtime. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:09.119 the Thing Jacques Pepin's culinary techniques every day cooking and 0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:12.320 heart and soul in the kitchen. These are just a 0:20:12.400 --> 0:20:16.720 few of the many television programs Papin has created to 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:20.280 instruct the home chef. But of all his work as 0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:24.200 a television icon, one series he is most well known 0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:28.439