1 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:05,560 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the 2 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: Thing from iHeart Radio. My guest today has worked in 3 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: the best restaurants in the world, taught thousands of hours 4 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:18,800 Speaker 1: of culinary technique, authored over thirty cookbooks, and at the 5 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:22,440 Speaker 1: age of eighty eight, shows no signs of slowing down. 6 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: Legendary French chef Jacques Pepin Chef Pepin has enjoyed, by 7 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: all accounts, a most extraordinary life and career. By twenty two, 8 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:37,200 Speaker 1: he was the personal chef for French President Chaules de gaul. 9 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: In nineteen fifty nine, he immigrated to America and worked 10 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: at Le Pavillon, the best French restaurant in New York City, 11 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: before moving to Howard Johnson's. His next frontier was the 12 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:56,279 Speaker 1: American home, instructing audiences on proper French cooking methods. This 13 00:00:56,400 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: began with his cookbooks, including the groundbreaking La Techiechnique, and 14 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: then through multiple PBS series like Today's Gourmet and Cooking 15 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:10,320 Speaker 1: at Home. Here, Chef Papin taught the home chef both 16 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: the basics for everyday meals and experimentation with gourmet flourishes. 17 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 1: His most recent cookbook is called Jacques Papine cooking my 18 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: way recipes and techniques for economical cooking. I wanted to 19 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: know how growing up in a small town in France 20 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: with his mother working in restaurants put him on the 21 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: path to where he is today. 22 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:37,400 Speaker 2: Where we were in the film country, we had a 23 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 2: little restaurant just outside of Lyons. The life was quite different. 24 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 2: I mean, I tell Nady eight yesterday, so I'm thinking 25 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 2: about over eighty years ago. Life was relatively easy. My 26 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 2: father with a cabinet maker, my mother with a cook. 27 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 2: So my choice in life was I'm a cavenet maker, 28 00:01:56,200 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 2: I'm a cook, within the telephone, within the radio revision 29 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 2: of course, any of this. So life was probably much 30 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 2: easier for kid than he is now. And we took 31 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 2: the dog, my brother and I go into the forest 32 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 2: and all that on all day off and the parents 33 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 2: never you know, we came back at night and no one. 34 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:21,640 Speaker 3: Worried about where you were. It was. It was quite 35 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 3: different than now. 36 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 1: Did your father take his cabinet making practice out into 37 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 1: the country with you just outside of the or did 38 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 1: he stay in the city and makers products. 39 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 2: No, he did that in the country, but after he 40 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 2: gave up anyway at some point to work in the 41 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 2: restaurant with my mother. But my father was a cabinet maker. 42 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 2: His father was his brother was what we could in 43 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:47,799 Speaker 2: France ebonist from the world ebony. So it's fancy cabinet maker. 44 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 4: You know. 45 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:52,799 Speaker 2: He used noble wood like cherries, oak and so forth. 46 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 2: Never use any nail. It's alas you know, curt and 47 00:02:56,240 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 2: joint and glue and a sculpture on the wood to 48 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 2: that type of work. And the wely the sixteen with 49 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:05,959 Speaker 2: seventeen kind of furniture. I should have a couple of 50 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 2: peace from him actually in my house. 51 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: Now, your mother got into the restaurant business when you 52 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: were how old? 53 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 2: Well after I was born, because I have exactly twenty 54 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 2: years different with my mother. I mean she got married 55 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 2: I think she was seventeen and a half. Then at 56 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:24,919 Speaker 2: my brother with a year and a half older than 57 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:28,080 Speaker 2: me than me and another one. So she got into 58 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 2: the restaurant business before the war. Slightly before the war. 59 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 2: She was a waddressed working different restaurants self, helping in 60 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 2: the kitchen. It was pretty common in France, I mean 61 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 2: in the family. In France, I come twelve restaurant, twelve 62 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 2: of them run by women. My two aunts and sister 63 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 2: in law, cousin, a niece, a mother, they all had. 64 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 2: I was actually the first male to go into that business. 65 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 2: And those kind of a formidable women who were not 66 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 2: very empressed by me. I remember when I was the 67 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 2: chef to the president in France. Go back down to 68 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 2: Leon Goo to my aunt at a little restaurant. I 69 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 2: get into the kitchen. She drove me out. She said, 70 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 2: you used too much. Better get out of here. They 71 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 2: were not very unpressed by me. 72 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: And who's managing all this enterprise? Your mother? 73 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:18,920 Speaker 2: Oh, they didn't have twelve restaurants at the time. I'm 74 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 2: calling you general. And my aunt at a restaurant in book, 75 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,920 Speaker 2: another aunt at a restaurant somewhere else, my mother at 76 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 2: three four restaurants actually at some point. 77 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: And what was it about? I mean, so, I'm assuming 78 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 1: you feel like you were born to this. There's no 79 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 1: way you could escape. And you said cabin making or cooking, right, 80 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 1: But you found the kitchen more seductive. 81 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 2: Correct, absolutely more exciting or seductive, And so I went 82 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 2: into this. I mean now, I said, the choice was 83 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 2: relatively easy for kid at that point. And first we 84 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 2: were supposed to go to school in teenage fourteen, which 85 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 2: I did at thirteen, and I took all the exam 86 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 2: you know at the end of primary school, the front exam. 87 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:02,840 Speaker 2: So I took all of those and I finished when 88 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:06,039 Speaker 2: I was early thirteen. So I say that's it. I'm 89 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 2: going into a frightdiceship. My older brother became an engineer, 90 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 2: so it worked, you know, so it was not a 91 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 2: question of me that I had to go to work. 92 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 3: That's what I wanted to do, so and I went 93 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 3: to school later. 94 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 1: So do you think that people, I mean, there's next 95 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 1: to no association between what I do for a living 96 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: and what you do for a living. But in the 97 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 1: world of acting in theater and so forth, people will 98 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: often say, I can't make you a good actor, but 99 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: I can make you a better actor than you were 100 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:38,279 Speaker 1: when you walked in the door. But there needs to 101 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: be some inherent inspiration. That is that thing true about 102 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 1: food and cooking? Do people have to have an inherent 103 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:45,720 Speaker 1: gift for that kind of thing? 104 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 3: Yes, certainly. 105 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 2: I mean for me, I'm talking about professionalism, professional chef 106 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:55,039 Speaker 2: and on a professional chef. I did those book called 107 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 2: a Technique, which is an illustrated manut of cooking technique 108 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 2: to know to bon out. You can to poach an 109 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 2: egg and it's not a question of knowing how to 110 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:05,839 Speaker 2: do it. It's eleven o'clock and you have one hundred 111 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 2: people sitting down for lunch. 112 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 3: You really have to move. So this is the difference 113 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 3: between a professional chef and a home cook. 114 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 2: You know, the speed and all that too. So you 115 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 2: have to be a good technician to be a chef first. 116 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,280 Speaker 2: But I know a fair amount of a chef who 117 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 2: a good technician, run a good kitchen and are relatively 118 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 2: lousy cook. The food is all right. But conversely, I 119 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 2: know people who cook at home who wouldn't be able 120 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,239 Speaker 2: to run a restaurant speed and all that, but food 121 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:36,280 Speaker 2: is fantastic, great, you know. So to be a great 122 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 2: chef like Tomas Keller or Daniel Buru, well you have 123 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 2: to be a technician first, but then you have to 124 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 2: have other things after. You know, you have to have 125 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 2: imagination talent to bring it to another level. 126 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,839 Speaker 1: You know. I think eventually you moved to Paris, yes, 127 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: and I don't want to quote the number here because 128 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 1: I find this fantastic. You work in many, many, many 129 00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:58,840 Speaker 1: restaurants during that period, correct. 130 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:01,799 Speaker 3: Close to one hundred how is that possible? 131 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 2: Its possible because I work at the Plaza and in 132 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 2: Paris for like seven years, put my day off. 133 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 3: Each day off, I work at. 134 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 2: A different restaurant most of the time, and that two 135 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 2: days off a week. There is an organization called associated 136 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 2: the Quasi Society of the Chef of Paris, which I 137 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 2: will a member. In fact, I don't know why we 138 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 2: don't have that in New York. But you go in 139 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 2: the morning or someone your cook doesn't come or whatever 140 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 2: doesn't come, they call they say I need one cook 141 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 2: for the day. So you know I will end up 142 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 2: like at Messi, you know, Galley la Fayette to and 143 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 2: do like three thousand plates with a slice, a piece 144 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 2: of salad in between an egg, you know. And the 145 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 2: next time I end up in a two star restaurant 146 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 2: and next so you never know where the society is 147 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 2: going to sign you. But that was great experience, you know, 148 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 2: of working because in case like this, it's not like 149 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 2: you have to wait for the day to learn the 150 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 2: habit of the house. I mean, within fifteen minutes you're there, 151 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:58,119 Speaker 2: the chef say you got to work. 152 00:07:58,360 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 3: So it's great training. 153 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 1: So you have a job in one where you were 154 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: at tattanay. Oh, yes, and you have a job. But 155 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: it sounds you sound like we've had guests on the 156 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: show who were some of the most legendary sessions musicians 157 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: in history, right, and it sounds like you have the 158 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 1: same kind of thing you're you're going to go in 159 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 1: for a day and and is the culture there, I 160 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 1: don't want to say uniform, but approachable where you can 161 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: walk in and you're just accepted you walk in there 162 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 1: or do you see the other conflicts with the way 163 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: things are done? 164 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 2: Sometimes No, No, if you work on a job to 165 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 2: stay for a couple of years, you may get involving 166 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 2: into that type of thing. But when you work for 167 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 2: the day two days, no, And remember that at the time, 168 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 2: the cook was really at the bottom of the social scale. 169 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 2: Any good mother, I wanted a child to marry the lawyer, 170 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 2: you know, a doctor, certainly not a cook. So now 171 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 2: we are genius. I don't know what happened at that time. 172 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 2: It wasn't okay. So when you went into a restaurant, 173 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:00,319 Speaker 2: it was to conform exactly to the habit of that reason. 174 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 2: It was not to create or do something on your own. 175 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:05,679 Speaker 2: In fact, I don't think I ever used a recipe 176 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 2: before I came to America. So you work in that place, 177 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 2: you learn the taste of that, and those dishes in 178 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 2: a sense become very visceral, very powerful. I mean the 179 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 2: dishes my mother did as a kid. You know, those 180 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 2: states will stay with you the rest of your life. 181 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:25,199 Speaker 2: And I'll go the pleasure. And in Paris, for example, 182 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 2: we did the lobster soufle. We were a forty eight 183 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 2: chef in the kitchen there, and the forty eight of 184 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 2: us could have done it, you would never have known 185 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 2: who has done it. 186 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 3: That's was the way it was. 187 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 2: Until Nouvelle Cuisine in the mid eighteen ninety when the 188 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 2: chef started creating and doing that type of thing, which different. 189 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 1: Now now you're a hired chef for the president of France, 190 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,199 Speaker 1: right and you work with the gall and some other 191 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: heads of state. How long were you doing that job? 192 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 2: From fifty six and fifty six to fifty eight and 193 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 2: the fifty eight I came here at the end of 194 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 2: fifty nine, you know, so you have to realize that 195 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 2: at the time. Again, as I said, the cook, I 196 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 2: serve people like either know where Nehru Tito mcmilland over 197 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 2: the head of state. Not anyone ever would call you 198 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 2: to get kuru in the dining room. 199 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 3: Are you kidding? The cook was in the kitchen. That 200 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 3: was it. 201 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:18,680 Speaker 2: If anyone came into the kitchen because something was wrong 202 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 2: towards two complaints. So I had never had an antio. 203 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 2: Television barely existed, but with radio or magazzine newspaper that 204 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 2: didn't exist. 205 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 3: So it was a different world. 206 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: So you're at what is certainly one of the summits 207 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:35,719 Speaker 1: of cooking in France. If you're cooking for the head 208 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: of state. There you have this amazing job, and then 209 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 1: when you're done in fifty eight, you moved to the 210 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 1: United States. 211 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 3: Correct, Right, at the end of nineteen fifteen, I moved. 212 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 3: I wasn't married. 213 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 2: At a great job in France, my brother at a restaurant, 214 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 2: but I wanted to come to America. 215 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:52,679 Speaker 3: America. 216 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 2: I was she leaves the Golden fleeceh. So I said, 217 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 2: I want to go there for a year, two years, 218 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 2: maybe learn the language a little bit, see what's going on. 219 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 2: I was unattached to So I came here at the 220 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:09,439 Speaker 2: end of fifty nine and I'm still here. 221 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 1: But you what you see up till then, before you 222 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:14,959 Speaker 1: settle in the United States, it's it's safe to say 223 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 1: you have a very restless nature. 224 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 2: Yes, has an extent, but that's what the world of 225 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 2: food was in a center, restless, moving from one place 226 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,679 Speaker 2: to the other to learn because if you keep your 227 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 2: eye open, I mean, I can't work with anyone now. 228 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 2: And you learn something, you know you will never have 229 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 2: sort of doing it this way too. Sometimes you learn 230 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 2: what not to do, but you learn something. But yeah, 231 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 2: so in that sense, coming to America was different. It 232 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 2: was the first time I work at the Pavio in 233 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 2: New York, was considered, you know, the best restaurant here. 234 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 2: And it was the first time that I did my 235 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 2: day in one in one shift. In France, we still 236 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 2: did two shift. I start nine o'clock in the morning 237 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 2: until two o'clock in the afternoon. You're from from two 238 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 2: to five, go sit down, sod where and at five 239 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 2: you start five to nine or ten. But was standard, 240 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:07,960 Speaker 2: you know, so here I started doing it was one shift. 241 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 2: I saw it was like half a day of working. 242 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 2: That's where I started going to school and did other things. 243 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 2: I had plenty of time and the people, I have 244 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:19,320 Speaker 2: to say, at the time were very, very welcoming. I 245 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 2: mean they say, oh, you come from a great country. 246 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:24,959 Speaker 2: We have so much culture, you know. So I said, wow. 247 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 2: I talked to the people in France I left. They said, 248 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 2: what are you doing? They don't even have bread. There 249 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 2: would have wine free, you know at the time. But yeah, 250 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 2: people were extremely welcoming here. So I loved this. Things 251 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 2: went on, one thing after another, and I'm still here. 252 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:44,599 Speaker 1: But the thing is, you come here and you have 253 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: pavion for how long. 254 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,200 Speaker 2: I w a the paveo not too long, from September 255 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:52,679 Speaker 2: until next April six seven months. At that time there 256 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:56,679 Speaker 2: was a problem with Suley, the owner, and all kind 257 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 2: of problem with them. Pierre Frede who was the executive 258 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 2: chef and the outcome with Suley in nineteen thirty nine 259 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 2: for the Worldfare at a Young Coming and he stayed there. 260 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 2: Eventually he was the executive chef when I was there, 261 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:14,479 Speaker 2: a problem with Soule and he decided to leave. And coincidentally, 262 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 2: at that time, Howard Johnson, Howard D. Johnson, who created 263 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 2: Howard Johnson whether regular patron of the Pavilon. So he 264 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,079 Speaker 2: I ad Pierre and Pierre told me you want to 265 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 2: come with me? And I said Okay, great ideas. So 266 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 2: that's that's what happens. 267 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 1: Okay, let's stop there because this is the term that 268 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:33,959 Speaker 1: this is so amazing to me. So you hit the 269 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: summit in France, you're cooking for the heads of state. 270 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 1: You come to New York, you're a Pavinon in New York, 271 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,440 Speaker 1: and the Howard Johnson, the namesake of the business, comes 272 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: to Pavinon. Is he a regular? Yes? 273 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 3: Regular? 274 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 1: Okay, so he's a regular there and he gets you 275 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 1: to come and cook for the Howard Johnson's restaurant chain. Correct, Yes, absolutely, 276 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:56,599 Speaker 1: How the hell did he do that? How did he 277 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 1: get you to come? 278 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 2: No, he actually asked Pierre to come, and Pierre decided 279 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 2: to go, and Pierre told me, you want to come 280 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 2: with me to assist me and do and that's how 281 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,200 Speaker 2: I did. But the point is that, as I said, 282 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:11,719 Speaker 2: the cook was quite different than now, because on that 283 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 2: spring of nineteen sixty, I actually I would have felt 284 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 2: the job at the White House for Kennedy and then 285 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 2: but I had done that, as I said, in France, 286 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 2: I had never been on a magazine newspaper, so I 287 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 2: had no idea of the potential for publicity too, because 288 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 2: it really did not exist. In fact, the one who 289 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 2: went to the White House with a front of mine 290 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 2: who was the sou chef at the six House in 291 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 2: New York, and I called him, put them in touch, 292 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 2: eventually got the job, and a year later he sent 293 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 2: me a picture of him with President Kennedy or missus 294 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 2: carry as Wow. I never had a picture with the 295 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 2: goal of So it was already changing a different world. 296 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 2: But prior to him, who was a chef at the 297 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 2: White House? 298 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 3: I asked? 299 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 2: And it ended up knowing that it was a black 300 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 2: lady from the South somewhere. No one would have known 301 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 2: her name, no more than the my name or whatever. 302 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 2: So it was a different world. We have to look 303 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 2: at it in that context. And Haward Johnson, what another 304 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 2: world for me? American eating, American habit. 305 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: Well, that's what I want to ask you, which is 306 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: when you come here, yeah again, Head of State France Pavillon, 307 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: you get offer the White House job. What's the first 308 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: thing you're in New York? Correct? You settled in New York. First, 309 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 1: what's the first thing that strikes you about the way 310 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: Americans eat in American restaurants? 311 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 2: Well, I live on fiftieth between first and second avenue 312 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 2: on top of a little restaurant called Lettock Blanche near 313 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 2: a certain. 314 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 3: Place for a very nice area. So they are a 315 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 3: superhil market, which happened my first SUPERI market. I thought 316 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 3: it was great. I didn't have to go to the. 317 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 2: Fish guide, the vegetable guide and so forth. But then 318 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 2: there was a lot of package package package. Then there 319 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 2: was some good meat, beef, lamb lobster, but there was 320 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 2: only one salad that was iceberg. There was no leak, 321 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 2: no shallow, no intel visible. I remember saying, what are 322 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 2: the mercioms. Let's say Aisle five that was ken mushroom 323 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 2: there you didn't have any. So it was undo the world, 324 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 2: you know, in terms of course had the pavillon. We 325 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 2: had great supplier even from Europe, from different parts or 326 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 2: the fish and all that too. 327 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 3: But yes, it certainly it was different. 328 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: So in France it's very compartmentalized. You go to the 329 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 1: fish market, you go to the butcher, you go to 330 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: the vegetable. It's all separate, the bakery, everything is separate. Now, 331 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 1: I mean, I can only say this because it's true, 332 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: and that is that for me, Howard Johnson's occupied a 333 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 1: very specific place because as a Catholic in the sixties. 334 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 1: As a child, we couldn't eat meat on Friday, so 335 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: the Howard Johnson's fish fry on Fridays was a staple 336 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: in my house. Going to have the cost law and 337 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 1: the hush puppies and the corn or whatever it was, 338 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 1: and you know, fried clams. But Howard Johnson's for the 339 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: guy that's a restless guy, for the guy that's moving 340 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: around and trying things. You stayed with Howard Johnson's for 341 00:16:58,240 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 1: ten years, is that correct? 342 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 3: Yes? 343 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: Why? 344 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 2: Well, to start with how Old Johnson, the father came 345 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 2: to my wedding, He came to the christening of my daughter. 346 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 2: So they were used to come to the commissary and 347 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 2: Pierre fred and he said, okay, you guys do whatever 348 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 2: you want to. We start changing butter instead of margarine 349 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 2: fresh and uness and the hydrated onion. We start changing 350 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:25,119 Speaker 2: all the recipe and start working in the kitchen with 351 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 2: four four chicken to do a chicken pot pie, and 352 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 2: we end up with three thousand pound of chicken at 353 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:33,680 Speaker 2: the time. You know, I move on on the in 354 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 2: thousand gallon kettles. So it was the last production, you know, 355 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 2: when I finished Howard Johnson I opened a restaurant on 356 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 2: Fifth Avenue, cool a potagerie in New York. We sell 357 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 2: only soup, and I were a consult time for the 358 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 2: World Trade Center for Joe Baum. We saved one hundred 359 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 2: thirty thousand people a day about a consultant at the 360 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 2: Russian teeroom. I'm saying only that because other French chefs, 361 00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:58,680 Speaker 2: I would never have been able to do any of 362 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 2: those jobs. I didn't do anything about production, marketing, chemistory 363 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 2: of food. So Howard Johnson was a good experience for me. 364 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 3: I learned a lot. 365 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,680 Speaker 1: The book is the technique. So the technique is as 366 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 1: important to you as the artistry preparing food in a 367 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 1: certain way. Because you've mentioned repeatedly in interviews programs of 368 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 1: yours and then your writing about your mindfulness about economics 369 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 1: in cooking. Yeah, don't waste anything. 370 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, economic of motion as well as economic of food 371 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 3: and so forth. 372 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,880 Speaker 2: And the technique. I publish that technique. I think it's 373 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 2: seventy four or five. It's still in print. I don't 374 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:38,400 Speaker 2: cook the same way that I cook fifty years ago 375 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:40,919 Speaker 2: or two, but the way you shop on a knife, 376 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 2: you know. Peter n Asparagoz Porch and egg is the 377 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:47,439 Speaker 2: same way. So those books of technique kind of remain 378 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 2: because of that. 379 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:58,879 Speaker 1: Chef Jacques Pepin. If you enjoy in depth culinary conversations, 380 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 1: check out my episode with Chef Eric Repair of the 381 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:04,199 Speaker 1: legendary Le Bernadelle. 382 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 5: What I like about Europe is the quality of the products. 383 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:10,960 Speaker 5: When they serve vegetables, they test like what you're supposed 384 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:15,119 Speaker 5: to taste. Here's a bit of a challenge because we 385 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 5: do not cultivate the same way. 386 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 3: You know, like the soil is maybe not the same. 387 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,359 Speaker 5: I don't know, Like an artichock in a Mediterranean is 388 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:25,199 Speaker 5: not the same artichock that we eat here. 389 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:27,360 Speaker 3: And you know, it's like those. 390 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 5: Gigantic farms, and they have ways of cultivating and maximizing 391 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 5: the land and factory its factories the artichoks are grown. 392 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:40,680 Speaker 1: To hear more of my conversation with Eric Repair, go 393 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 1: to Here's the Thing dot org. After the break, Jacques 394 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: Pepette tells us where a world famous chef dines in 395 00:19:49,200 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 1: his downtime. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's 396 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:09,119 Speaker 1: the Thing Jacques Pepin's culinary techniques every day cooking and 397 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 1: heart and soul in the kitchen. These are just a 398 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 1: few of the many television programs Papin has created to 399 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 1: instruct the home chef. But of all his work as 400 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 1: a television icon, one series he is most well known 401 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:28,439 Speaker 1: for is his Emmy winning show with Julia Child Julia 402 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 1: and Jacques Cooking at Home. 403 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 2: When I did a theory with Julia Child, you know 404 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 2: we did. I knew her fifty years. You know, I'm 405 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 2: married in nineteen sixty, so we did the theory together. 406 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:42,440 Speaker 2: We had no recipe. She said, what do you want 407 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:44,440 Speaker 2: to do? Just right down one hundred things of you 408 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 2: want to do with the twenty six show, and she 409 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 2: did the same way, and I think three of mine 410 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 2: made it in the In the show. You know, we 411 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 2: cook together without recipes, so it was harder for the cameraman. 412 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:58,639 Speaker 2: Of course they don't know whether we're going to left 413 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,920 Speaker 2: right or whatever. But for me, I have a scallion 414 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,160 Speaker 2: in that dish because they happened to be on the table, 415 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 2: so I throw them in much ideo to work without recipe, 416 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 2: just testing, adjusting this. And the second thing when we 417 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 2: did our show, of course on PBS, you have a 418 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 2: time frame the show thirty minute all the time. It's 419 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 2: too expensive but Julia said, we'll cook and when it finished, 420 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 2: will tell you some of the show. 421 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 3: For eighty minutes nineteen minute. 422 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 2: I mean, it was amazing. And then so we had wine. 423 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 2: We had good wine, we had no recipe, and we 424 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 2: had as much time as we wanted. 425 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 3: So it was fun cooking. 426 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 1: I watched that documentary about her, and I was enthralled 427 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 1: by that film. It really was a magical an opportunity 428 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:44,640 Speaker 1: to really get to know somebody you thought you knew. Yes, 429 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,440 Speaker 1: a woman who everybody in this country knew who she was, 430 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: I mean at least of my generation, but you really 431 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 1: didn't know her when you got to know her. It 432 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: was really really a wonderful film. 433 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 3: But she was exactly the same way in person that 434 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:56,920 Speaker 3: she was on television. 435 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,639 Speaker 1: Now, so when you're in the United States, when you 436 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 1: come here and before you go to Pavion and the 437 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 1: speaks to also just your patterns throughout your life, whether 438 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 1: you're in Europe or what have you. Do you like 439 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 1: to go to restaurants? Do you enjoy eating out or 440 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 1: do you much more prefer to just cook at home. 441 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,400 Speaker 1: Do you dine out with any regularity or you prefer 442 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: not to both? 443 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,680 Speaker 2: I mean, I love to cook at home with Fran 444 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 2: occasionally we did last night, but otherwise I love to 445 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 2: go to restaurant. Of course, I mean usually pretty straightforward restaurant. 446 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 2: For example, for America and in the psyche of American 447 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:36,399 Speaker 2: I believe a lot French cooking is understood in the 448 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 2: context of Michelin Star. You know, well, there is twelve 449 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 2: I think twelve or fourteen three star Michline in France, 450 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,400 Speaker 2: with about seventy eighty two star at about four hundred 451 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 2: one star, the whole star system of the Mischtin at 452 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,359 Speaker 2: about six hundred restaurant, where there is one hundred and 453 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 2: sixty eight thousand restaurants in France. All the restaurant that 454 00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 2: I was thinking about my mother to any of them, 455 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 2: mud never be in a three star restaurant in the 456 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 2: Meshline guide. I'm saying that because in the psyche of 457 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 2: the American people often they look at French cooking in 458 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:13,359 Speaker 2: the context of michelan very elegant and famous high stakes timing, 459 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 2: which is not really it's part of it, but a 460 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:18,200 Speaker 2: small part to a certain extent. 461 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: Now, for you, when you dine out, what's the first 462 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 1: thing that you look for in a restaurant? That you 463 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,119 Speaker 1: find attractive well to. 464 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 2: A certain extent, the service. I mean, you know, you 465 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 2: get into a restaurant, or you're on the road, you 466 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 2: get into a restaurant, you go in just looking at 467 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,199 Speaker 2: the bottom of the chair or the table, whether they 468 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 2: are clean or not, the smell of the restaurants and 469 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 2: all that. I said, I'm staying or I'm not saying here, 470 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 2: I'm not talking about famous restaurants. So there is that 471 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 2: first impression which is very important, and the way you 472 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 2: received the service to Yeah, those first impressions are very important, 473 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 2: I think in the restaurant. I mean I used to 474 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 2: review a fair amount of restaurant with Craig label on 475 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 2: the New York Times because I knew Craig again when 476 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,160 Speaker 2: I came to this country, I mean through the pavilion again, 477 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 2: so very often to touch job that I would not, 478 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,680 Speaker 2: in fact, I was broke with the job after he 479 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 2: left and died. I mean that they would you be interested. 480 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 2: I couldn't do that. I mean, it's very easy. I 481 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,159 Speaker 2: can't tell you fifteen things wrong anywhere that you go, 482 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 2: but this is not my type of things. And after 483 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 2: I know I would have been pretty bored and frustrated. 484 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,680 Speaker 2: After you know, a couple of weeks on the job. 485 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,239 Speaker 1: Well, for me, my wife and I we go out 486 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: to dinner probably you know, four nights a week because 487 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: it's the only time I have my wife to myself, right, 488 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:40,879 Speaker 1: we have to put all the kids to bed and 489 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 1: I go to dinner with my wife. And my feeling 490 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: about restaurants is, you know, we basically try new things 491 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 1: every now and then someone will say, oh, you must 492 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,640 Speaker 1: go here, but we go to the same four places 493 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 1: over and over again. I'm want reliability. I walk in 494 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 1: that restaurant, I know exactly what I'm going to get. 495 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,680 Speaker 2: Right, me too, if I played with it to a 496 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:02,119 Speaker 2: fantastic roast ch I want to go back there. And 497 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 2: if I go back there and they say, we don't 498 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 2: do it anyway, So what's going on? 499 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:06,399 Speaker 3: I mean? 500 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,920 Speaker 2: You know, I add, you know, so many twenty three, 501 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,879 Speaker 2: twenty four thousand restaurants in New York, the amount of 502 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:17,360 Speaker 2: ethnicity and the choices unmatched anywhere in the world. When 503 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 2: you find six or eight restaurant that you can rely 504 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 2: on if you want Chinese, all this and that, yeah, 505 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 2: of course you go back there. 506 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 3: That's what you want, and you want the same food. 507 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,159 Speaker 1: Now are there things you won't eat or did your 508 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 1: training put you in a place where you eat anything? 509 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 2: Yes, I'm a glutton basically. Yeah, I eat anything you 510 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 2: put in front of me. Really, yes, I mean I 511 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 2: don't really think of anything that I don't like. It changed, 512 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:44,399 Speaker 2: I mean your metabolism change. 513 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 3: At my age, I used to love a large stake. 514 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,159 Speaker 2: Now if I have a stick, if I have two 515 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,359 Speaker 2: or three answers a piece of that, that's more than enough. So, 516 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,639 Speaker 2: you know, things change. I eat probably more soup than 517 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,360 Speaker 2: I ever did, and other things like that. The way 518 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 2: you cook when you're young, chef of and you add 519 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,200 Speaker 2: to the plate, You add to the plate. You add 520 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 2: to the plate too, presentation too. And when you get 521 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:11,120 Speaker 2: to be a certain age, if I have a great 522 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 2: tomato out of my gardener, the right temperature, you know, 523 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 2: a bit of salt, it's ripe, A bit of salt, 524 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 2: bit of a river on top, I don't need more 525 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 2: embellishment on the plate. So I take away, take away 526 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 2: from the plate to be left with something more essential. 527 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 2: Not my age, but it's a normal progression with age 528 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 2: and so forth. 529 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,400 Speaker 1: I mean beyond. I want to say this carefully because 530 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,159 Speaker 1: I don't want to get this say the wrong thing here. 531 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,440 Speaker 1: But it's like, beyond drugs and alcohol and things that 532 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:41,920 Speaker 1: have a grip on people in this very very powerful way, 533 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 1: beyond that, there's nothing that has a control of people 534 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,920 Speaker 1: more than food. Oh yeah, food is the most powerful 535 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 1: reality in our lives. 536 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,440 Speaker 3: There is nothing also we bring people together like food. 537 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 2: You know, you sit down at the table with people 538 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 2: you don't know to all of a sudden, you know, 539 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 2: you started in conversation and all that. You may be 540 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,480 Speaker 2: sitting next to the governor on one side and maybe 541 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 2: the dishwasher of the restaurant on the other side. But 542 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,359 Speaker 2: if really it doesn't matter. I remember traveling in the 543 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 2: northern of Europe, Yugoslavia and so forth. In little village 544 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 2: many many years ago, people look behind the curtain foreigners, 545 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,719 Speaker 2: you know, I mean, you're dangerous. You see it at 546 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 2: the bistro and you're there by hand. 547 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 3: If you don't know the language. 548 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 2: You get the bottle of wine there and whatever bred 549 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 2: to and all of a sudden people sit around you. 550 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 3: You know, they look at you. 551 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,400 Speaker 2: You send them a bottle of wine, and an hour 552 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:38,960 Speaker 2: later you're speaking unknown language with those people. Because you'll 553 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,880 Speaker 2: quote normal you know, you eat like them or so forth. 554 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 2: So food is very important. One of the most important 555 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 2: thing for me is probably to follow the season. 556 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 3: You know, I mean the. 557 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,359 Speaker 2: Supo markets seem to be greater and more beautiful they 558 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 2: have ever been. You have through very year round, but 559 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 2: when you test it, and when you go to a 560 00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,639 Speaker 2: farm by a basket of srowary in full season, you 561 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,440 Speaker 2: can the difference. So it seemed to be very plentiful 562 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,200 Speaker 2: in some ways, but it's not. I mean, following the 563 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,720 Speaker 2: season the best thing you can do. That's when a 564 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,640 Speaker 2: tomato really tastes good full season, that's when it's really 565 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 2: cheap too, and when when nutritionally that's when it the 566 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 2: best for you. So you know, you go to those 567 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:22,679 Speaker 2: places from the south of France to Sicily or Sardinia 568 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 2: where people live over one hundred years old, they eat 569 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 2: very simply, but they follow the season simply, have a 570 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:32,359 Speaker 2: glass of wine and eat you know what's in seasons simply, 571 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 2: and that's great. 572 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 1: We had Eric Repair obviously from the Bernadette here on 573 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 1: the show about a year ago, and when he described 574 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 1: what it was like when he was young and he 575 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: was in the kitchen, it's a lot of work, boy, 576 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 1: it sounds like it was really, really, really a lot 577 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 1: of work. 578 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 2: It was, but we didn't know it was work, you know. 579 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 2: And as I said at that time, no recipe. The 580 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 2: chef that you do this, and if you say why, 581 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 2: you would have said because I just told you, right. 582 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 2: So I work for a year in apprenticeship cleaning the floor, 583 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 2: and then started scaling fish, killing chicken at the time 584 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 2: we killed chicken, plog chicken rabbits, scaling fish too, without 585 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 2: just by looking and doing it. And then when the 586 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 2: earlier the chef told me you started the stove tomorrow 587 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:14,960 Speaker 2: started the stove. 588 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 3: They only close to the stuff to. 589 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 2: Put wood and calling it at that when it was 590 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 2: now and I work at the stove and I knew 591 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 2: how to do it through osmosis, you know, at that time, 592 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 2: the repeat and so forth. 593 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 3: So that was a different way of learning as we 594 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 3: do now. 595 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 2: You know, I've been dinner at the French Culinarian Stitute 596 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 2: in New York for twenty five years. That I teach 597 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 2: at BU for forty three years, I think, So now 598 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 2: you teach totally differently. The key first are usually coming 599 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 2: from not only our school but offan college, so they 600 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 2: want to know more totally different than the way I 601 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 2: was told when I was thirteen fourteen, do this, do 602 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 2: that that said? 603 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 1: You know, going back to when you were talking about 604 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 1: a great tomato. What you see is I live on 605 00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 1: Long Island in the summer. We're out there for the summer, 606 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,240 Speaker 1: my family, and these farmers' markets where it seems like 607 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 1: people will pay just about anything to have a basket 608 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: of something of the season. We have a garden in 609 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 1: our house. We have a woman who comes. She prepares 610 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 1: the garden, and then she texts me and says, here's 611 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 1: what's ready to pick. The Japanese egg plant is ready 612 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 1: to pick, the flowers are ready to pick. We're going 613 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 1: a decent sized garden. And my family I got, like 614 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 1: I said, I got seven kids, my wife, and I 615 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 1: of some people who help us. We can't eat everything 616 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 1: that comes out of that garden. 617 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 2: I did two soup this summer with cucumber. It's almost 618 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 2: I put it, took the seat out of it, put 619 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 2: it in the food processor and rucifi it salt paper 620 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,920 Speaker 2: and I mixed that with a bloody marry mix there 621 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 2: is I had a guess patio right there, and I 622 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 2: did another one the same way, but then mix it 623 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 2: with the with yogurt and mint to do yogot soup 624 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 2: during the summer. So often the recipe come from that 625 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,000 Speaker 2: overabundance of the things that you have. 626 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 1: Chef Jacques Papa, if you're enjoying this conversation, tell a 627 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,720 Speaker 1: friend and be sure to follow Here's the Thing on 628 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. 629 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: When we come back, Jacques papass shares how a near 630 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 1: fatal car accident changed the course of his life. I'm 631 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. Chef 632 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 1: Jacques Papa's career boasts a seemingly endless list of accomplishments, 633 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 1: from cooking for multiple heads of state to creating the 634 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 1: culinary certificate program at Boston University. That's why I wanted 635 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,240 Speaker 1: to know why he chose to go back to school, 636 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 1: earning his bachelor's and master's degrees from Columbia University in 637 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:51,880 Speaker 1: his adulthood. 638 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 3: Where to start with? 639 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 2: At skurlun I was thirteen years old, so there was 640 00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,960 Speaker 2: always often in the kitchen that complex about not having 641 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 2: an education, you know, and all that. So I saw 642 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 2: that even as I said, when I was at Howard 643 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 2: john for example, I was with Pia Fredde. Pierre Frede 644 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 2: was a fantastic chef, great guy. He started working like 645 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 2: I did. But he never went back to college after 646 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 2: he was here. And I remember mister Johnson junior there, 647 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:22,960 Speaker 2: who was at Cornell. He used to come with his 648 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,719 Speaker 2: other kid, the sandwiched two twenty three, they come out 649 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 2: of college, and I know that Pierre was ampressed. He 650 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 2: didn't know what to do, when in fact they knew 651 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 2: nothing about cooking or anything. 652 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 3: At that time. 653 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,240 Speaker 2: I was already in the graduate school at Columbia, so 654 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 2: at one time pressed by them. So it changed your montality, 655 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 2: you know. As I said, one time, I gave the 656 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 2: commandment address at Columbia. Actually, and I said a quote 657 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 2: I think from Somerset Mohan, which the education is very important. 658 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 2: Without an education, you're likely to fall in the deadly 659 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 2: danger of taking educated people seriously. 660 00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 3: So it's true to a certain next tent. 661 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 2: You know, I would never have been able to do 662 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 2: everything that I've done without the education I get at Columbia. 663 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,360 Speaker 2: And I went to Columbia from nineteen fifty nine to 664 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy three. Seventy three appropoed a doctoral dissertation on 665 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:18,120 Speaker 2: a history of food in the context civil edition literature, 666 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:20,040 Speaker 2: and at that time on me, are you crazy? 667 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,640 Speaker 3: Food? Now we cannot accept that, so I left. 668 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,080 Speaker 1: That's crazy. Actually I want to be you and you 669 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 1: got your doctorate there. 670 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, Columbia still gave me a PHG letter. I think 671 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:33,800 Speaker 2: it's another world, the world of food now, I mean 672 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 2: the way we get respect and all that. And I 673 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 2: have to say that American chefs start later than what 674 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,040 Speaker 2: it used to be thirteen years old in Europe and 675 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,719 Speaker 2: so forth, so they usually go to school today, are 676 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 2: more educated too, so it's a different business. 677 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:49,560 Speaker 3: They get much more into business now. 678 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 2: So many chefs that I know from Daniel Bulha six 679 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 2: seven eight restaurants, I never did that type of thing. 680 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 2: I don't think that I would have been very good 681 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 2: at that. I'm not very good at business in general. 682 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 2: So but the chef now is that much more larger 683 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 2: person than it. 684 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:07,400 Speaker 3: Used to be. 685 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:09,880 Speaker 1: So a couple of quick things that I want to 686 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:13,399 Speaker 1: touch on. So you were in a very serious car accident, yes, 687 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 1: and this was back in. 688 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,000 Speaker 3: What year, nineteen seventy four. 689 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,959 Speaker 2: You know, I tried to avoid idea of falling arriving tree, 690 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,400 Speaker 2: and I had twelve fourteen fractureing and so I broke 691 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,440 Speaker 2: my back in three places, my two hip leg arm. 692 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 2: They thought that I would live, They thought that I 693 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:33,879 Speaker 2: would walk again. And in fact, one of the first 694 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,320 Speaker 2: things my wife signed removal of the left town. The 695 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:38,880 Speaker 2: left town there was only this is a good thing. 696 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,960 Speaker 2: They didn't cut it off. So yeah, that kind of 697 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 2: changed my life too. It pushed me in the direction 698 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,719 Speaker 2: of writing about food. You know I did for the 699 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:47,399 Speaker 2: New York Times. 700 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:49,359 Speaker 1: You couldn't stand in the kitchen for very long. 701 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,359 Speaker 2: Obviously, Well I can, but you know, not like back then, 702 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:54,560 Speaker 2: all the time, every day, six hours. 703 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:57,160 Speaker 3: It's pretty taxing, you know, So of course, yeah, so 704 00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 3: that changed. 705 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 1: Changed your life in an important way. I want you 706 00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 1: to mention two things. Your new cookbook is called. 707 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:04,759 Speaker 3: What Cooking by Way? 708 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 1: I think you know. 709 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 2: I did thirteenth SERI of PBS show, and each time 710 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 2: there is a theme. So each time you have a 711 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:14,320 Speaker 2: book with a different theme. And that's what I have 712 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:16,279 Speaker 2: so many books. I even did a book for the 713 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,839 Speaker 2: Cleveland Clinic for caliac vasion wet loss. So you put 714 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:23,960 Speaker 2: your knowledge of food to a very specific area in 715 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,279 Speaker 2: the New York Time for eight ten years that I 716 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,880 Speaker 2: had a column called The Purposeful Cook, which was to 717 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,360 Speaker 2: cook for a family of six from a minimum amount 718 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:34,520 Speaker 2: of money. So there the idea was economy in the kitchen. 719 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 2: So this is a bit of the same theme that 720 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 2: I took back here. But I've been very lucky with 721 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:44,800 Speaker 2: all of the books that I've done, and with PBS 722 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:46,280 Speaker 2: and so forth. 723 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:49,120 Speaker 1: So you had an amazingly broad career. It's incredible. 724 00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 3: I'm very lucky. 725 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:55,360 Speaker 4: Which brings me to you said, you just turned eighty eight. Yeah, yesterday, 726 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,160 Speaker 4: So yesterday was your birthday, your eighty eight. Which I 727 00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,520 Speaker 4: have many friends, many friends who are older than I am. 728 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:03,839 Speaker 4: I'm sixty five, and my friends who were in their 729 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,759 Speaker 4: late seventies around in the corner toward eighty, who have 730 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:07,800 Speaker 4: great careers. 731 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,040 Speaker 1: They're like, they're never going to retire. They're like, well, 732 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:11,279 Speaker 1: this is who I am, this is what I do. 733 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 1: Retirement it's death. 734 00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:14,920 Speaker 3: If you love what you're doing, you never have to 735 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:15,520 Speaker 3: go to work. 736 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:21,000 Speaker 1: Fantastic, fantastic. Now, one more thing. Your foundation. Describe to 737 00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:22,840 Speaker 1: us when you started that what the mission of the 738 00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:23,440 Speaker 1: foundation is. 739 00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was actually my son in law, my daughter 740 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:28,680 Speaker 2: does Facebook for me. My son in law does instide 741 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:31,839 Speaker 2: gramble of though it a professor Johnson and weel it's 742 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,879 Speaker 2: actually a professional chef forty years but then he went 743 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 2: back to Johnson and Weell to teach and get his 744 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,719 Speaker 2: master and get a PhD. So at some point that 745 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,000 Speaker 2: was five six years ago, he told me, you know, 746 00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:44,440 Speaker 2: you've been teaching all your life. 747 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:46,440 Speaker 3: Who do you think you would like to teach now? 748 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 3: So we talked about it. 749 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 2: I say, you know people who have been a bit 750 00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,879 Speaker 2: these enfranchised by life. You know, people who come out 751 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:56,600 Speaker 2: of jail, you know, homeless people form a drug addict, 752 00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:00,279 Speaker 2: even veteran. So I feel that in six weeks, with 753 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,840 Speaker 2: the video that we are teaching and all that, in 754 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:05,640 Speaker 2: six weeks, I could teach someone in the kitchen, if 755 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,320 Speaker 2: they're interested, how to pier on your properly, or to 756 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:09,799 Speaker 2: pilas Viargus how to. 757 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 3: Push on egg. 758 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:12,920 Speaker 2: And then you know the basic and if you like 759 00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 2: it and keep at it, Fabio, there may be other 760 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,360 Speaker 2: chef there. You know, you're in charge now at the kitchen, 761 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,839 Speaker 2: and you make good money and it kind of redo 762 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,279 Speaker 2: your life. So they are not necessarily young people in 763 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:28,960 Speaker 2: the organization. You know, a lot of forty fifty people. 764 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:32,200 Speaker 2: But we work through community kitchen a bit all over 765 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,400 Speaker 2: the country and it's been quite rewarding and we need. 766 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:37,479 Speaker 3: People like that in the kitchen, you know, to work. 767 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Well, I must say what a great honor 768 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:42,759 Speaker 1: it is for me to meet you. It is an honor. 769 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:44,200 Speaker 1: I'm a great admirer of yours. 770 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:46,279 Speaker 3: A great honor for me. I wanted to tell you. 771 00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:47,680 Speaker 3: I have to say. Yeah. 772 00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:51,160 Speaker 2: My daughter and my son in law and my granddaughter, 773 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,000 Speaker 2: they love you. Thank you, sir, thank you, happy cooking. 774 00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:02,759 Speaker 1: My thanks to Jacques Papin. More information about the Jacques 775 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:08,040 Speaker 1: Bepin Foundation can be found at jp dot Foundation. This 776 00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:13,000 Speaker 1: episode was recorded at CDM Studios in New York City. 777 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:17,600 Speaker 1: We're produced by Kathleen Russo, Zach MacNeice, and Maureen Hobin. 778 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:22,200 Speaker 1: Our engineer is Frank Imperial. Our social media manager is 779 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 1: Danielle Gingrich. I'm Alec Baldwin. Here's the thing is brought 780 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:28,040 Speaker 1: to you by iHeart Radio.