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Speaker 1: Also media, Hello, and welcome to Better Offline. I'm your

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Speaker 1: host ed zeitron.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: The other day someone suggested I shouldn't do ASMR style voices,

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Speaker 1: and I'm still not sure what that means, but it does.

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Speaker 1: It mean I shouldn't be this close and like being

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Speaker 1: like you're in the bathtub. Either way, I'm never listening

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Speaker 1: to a single bit of feedback I've ever received. But

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Speaker 1: today I'm in studio in New York, goddamn city, and

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Speaker 1: I'm joined by the incredible freelance writer Ashwin Rodriguez, Hey dooing, Ashwn.

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Speaker 3: Good, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: And Paris Martineau of Consumer Reports.

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Speaker 2: Hello, Should I do mouth noises too?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? They love that. But you had a huge story, Paris,

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Speaker 1: in the last week, last week or so it was like.

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Speaker 2: Week, yeah, like a week or two times. A bit

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Speaker 2: of a blur, honestly.

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Speaker 1: So it was a story around twenty three protein powders

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Speaker 1: ready to drink shakes and properly brands, and you found

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Speaker 1: that heavy metal contamination was common. How cool?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, very common, actually, like more than two thirds of them. Actually,

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Speaker 2: this will be really important for your listeners. Sixty nine

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Speaker 2: percent of them had sixty nine percent of them had

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Speaker 2: a levels of lead in one serving that are more

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Speaker 2: than what our food safety experts say is safe to

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Speaker 2: take in a day. And the more you kind of

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Speaker 2: dig into the specifics, I feel like, the more concerning

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Speaker 2: it gets. Some of the most contaminated powders we found

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Speaker 2: were plant based ones, and overwhelmingly plant based powders instead

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Speaker 2: of you know, versus like whey or dairy or like

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Speaker 2: dairy based products like whey or beef based, they had

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Speaker 2: just higher levels of lead.

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Speaker 1: Why is the lead getting in?

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Speaker 2: I mean, the lead is getting in from a lot

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Speaker 2: of different ways, but probably the most common is like

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Speaker 2: the soil that plants are grown in. So basically like plants,

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Speaker 2: when they're grown, they suck up all the nutrients around them.

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Speaker 2: But if those nutrients are also contaminants like lead from

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Speaker 2: either industrial pollution or just lead being in the natural environment,

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Speaker 2: it gets in there. And who would have guessed the

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Speaker 2: process of making protein powder, which is called protein concentrate

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Speaker 2: or protein isolate from stuff like plants, involves concentrating and

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Speaker 2: isolating things in it, and it LEDs one of those

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Speaker 2: things to begin with. It might get more concentrated and.

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Speaker 1: All these like popular brands, all these small brands.

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Speaker 2: These are popular brands. We basically worked with a market

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Speaker 2: and like analytics team and like trend reporters to figure

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Speaker 2: out what are some of the best selling like protein supplements,

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Speaker 2: what are the most popular brands, most popular flavors, And

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Speaker 2: we kind of did a general kind of sweep of

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Speaker 2: the market and tested those. And to be clear, we

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Speaker 2: didn't just test like a one off scoop of each

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Speaker 2: we had. I mean, this was like a experiment designed

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Speaker 2: by our laboratory scientists over a period of months. They

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Speaker 2: went out and bought different like samples of each product,

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Speaker 2: tested multiple lots, and then analyzed all the results.

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Speaker 1: Lead plains lovely, Yeah, so is, and so it was,

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Speaker 1: but it's more in plant protein ones.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so plant protein powders overwhelmingly like they had about

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Speaker 2: nine like lead levels that were nine times as much

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Speaker 2: as dairy based ones and twice as much as a

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Speaker 2: beef based ones.

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Speaker 1: How the fuck are people not dying?

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Speaker 2: Well, the think that's the thing. The thing about lead

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Speaker 2: is it's not like a To be very clear, this

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Speaker 2: is not like a you need to panic if you're

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Speaker 2: eating these, you're going to getlead.

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Speaker 1: Plays That's kind of what I was getting.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's like a lead there. If you ask

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Speaker 2: like the FDA or the World Health Organization that you

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Speaker 2: enter anything, there's like no known safe level of lead.

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Speaker 2: It's bad for you, uh, but it's not like immediately

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Speaker 2: you're going to die bad in these sort of quantities.

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Speaker 2: These are low but concerning levels, and they're concerning because

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Speaker 2: the kind of fucked up thing about lead. I didn't

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Speaker 2: really think about lead that much until I started reporting

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Speaker 2: on this, obviously, But the fun thing about lead is

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Speaker 2: that it like kind of lingers in your body. So

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Speaker 2: one of the ways people test for lead is like

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Speaker 2: blood lead level tests, but that doesn't even give you

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Speaker 2: a really full picture. That just shows you how much

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Speaker 2: lead is in your blood. But the thing about lead

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Speaker 2: is your body. This is a gross over simplification. Your

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Speaker 2: body kind of thinks of it like calcium because they

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Speaker 2: kind of look similar. So it's like omnum nam and

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Speaker 2: puts it in your bones or in your teeth, and

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Speaker 2: so it hangs out in there for like the blood

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Speaker 2: in your the lead in your blood kind of can

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Speaker 2: come in and out of your body relatively quickly. The

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Speaker 2: lead in your bones can stay there for a period

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Speaker 2: of like years or decades, and then during periods where

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Speaker 2: your bone because your bones are always kind of repairing themselves, right,

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Speaker 2: and when that happens, then the lead leaches out and

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Speaker 2: it goes bad for you. So the real issue with

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Speaker 2: these products in particular is Consumer Reports has done a

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Speaker 2: lot of like heavy metal testing and stuff, but it's

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Speaker 2: we've like tested things like chocolate or tune or like

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Speaker 2: things like that. But with protein powder, people who like

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Speaker 2: protein powders take them every day, well sometimes multiple times

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Speaker 2: a day for periods of years, and that's kind of

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Speaker 2: like a perfect storm to give yourself like low level

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Speaker 2: chronic exposure to lead in a way that could in

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Speaker 2: like years or decades like have measurable health effects.

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Speaker 1: And there's no regulation or testing that should have stopped this.

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Speaker 1: Is there a thing that this breaks? Like, I mean

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Speaker 1: this is we kind of have an FDA.

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Speaker 2: We kind of have an FDA. This has been one

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Speaker 2: of the most interesting things about this. So last time

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Speaker 2: I was on your podcast, I was a tech reporter

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Speaker 2: the information and I've been like focusing on like tech

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Speaker 2: companies doing bad shit for like years. When I switch

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Speaker 2: to Consumer Reports this summer, I'm mostly focusing on food

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Speaker 2: safety still doing some tech, but it's been fascinating for

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Speaker 2: me to dive into things like the FDA and realize,

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Speaker 2: like the FDA historically, you know, I was always come

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Speaker 2: under criticism, like every government agency for whether or not

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Speaker 2: it's doing the best with the f part of FDA,

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Speaker 2: food or drugs within that purview is dietary supplements, right,

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Speaker 2: due to some chicanery in the nineties, are regulated kind

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Speaker 2: of totally different in a way that basically boils down

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Speaker 2: to the fd is like, well, we can't really do

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Speaker 2: anything until it comes to market, and then when it

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Speaker 2: comes to market, maybe we'll scrutinize it.

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Speaker 1: And you just did Ashwin a big piece about supplements, right,

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Speaker 1: and you kind of remarked upon this to me a

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Speaker 1: few times in the past.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So my story in The Times was about how

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Speaker 3: supplements to this point that I saw in the Consumer

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Speaker 3: Reports story about protein is in the nineteen ninety four

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Speaker 3: d SHA Act, which was yes, it basically it classified

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Speaker 3: all dietary supplements to be regulated as food and not drugs,

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Speaker 3: and dietary supplements can is like such a broad umbrella

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Speaker 3: where you know, it makes sense to me that protein

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Speaker 3: is considered a food. You know, like a way protein

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Speaker 3: or whatever. But then there's also things that people are

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Speaker 3: taking for purporting like drug like effects like ashwaganda.

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Speaker 2: Or you know, or even like melatonin.

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Speaker 3: What they call gas station heroin is a dietarian supplementary supplement.

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Speaker 3: But also that no, there's a different I believe it's

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Speaker 3: kratim and something else. But this is the stuff that

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Speaker 3: some people were using to wean themselves off of opiates,

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Speaker 3: and then other people who weren't on opiates.

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Speaker 2: Where really great that that classifies as something like.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I've always been fascinated that like the gas station

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Speaker 3: is at the cutting edge of pharmaceuticals for some reason.

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Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, and it's just it's.

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Speaker 3: This.

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Speaker 2: It's so interesting to me because these supplement manufacturers aren't

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Speaker 2: required to prove their products are safe before they go

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Speaker 2: to market. They aren't required to prove that their products

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Speaker 2: are effective, and they're supposed to comply with like good

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Speaker 2: manufacturing processes. But like, for instance, one stat that really

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Speaker 2: stood out to me reporting this is like the FDA

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Speaker 2: says there's twelve thousand registered dietary supplement manufacturers. Last year,

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Speaker 2: they inspected six hundred of them, and like five hundred

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Speaker 2: and ten of those inspections were domestic manufacturers. There's only

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Speaker 2: ninety that were inspected abroad, and I suspect that's for

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Speaker 2: a lot of the manufacturing of these products actually occurs.

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Speaker 1: Is there like a bleed over effect what they say,

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, designed in America but manufactured in the global

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Speaker 1: South was However, I.

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Speaker 3: Mean there's lots of misleading labeling issues, not necessarily where

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Speaker 3: it's manufactured, but more so what they're allowed to say

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Speaker 3: they can these things can do. It's like structure of

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Speaker 3: function claims where you can be like, because we know

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Speaker 3: protein is healthy for you, or you know this compound

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Speaker 3: is known to be involved in like whatever biological process

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Speaker 3: they can say supports immune function, Right, we're designed to

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Speaker 3: help with brain health and all these things where it's like,

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Speaker 3: mechanistically it might work, but this thing has not been

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Speaker 3: proven to have the effect that people think it does,

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Speaker 3: So like that is a larger problem than being like

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Speaker 3: this has been designed in the US, but it's actually right.

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Speaker 3: And then the way that they aren't regulating these things

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Speaker 3: for any possible like positive benefit. It's the same issue

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Speaker 3: with negative where it's like unless there's either a class

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Speaker 3: action lawsuit or someone proactively finding the people who are

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Speaker 3: experiencing negative side effects, those aren't being reported in the

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Speaker 3: same way that a pharmaceutical drug is required.

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Speaker 1: They're required to just crazy because Amazon is full of

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Speaker 1: the fucking things. Because I lifted these, then it's been

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Speaker 1: a bad month for it, I guess. But I tried

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Speaker 1: various supplements and nothing changed anything, Like I was straight

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Speaker 1: up just like I'll try that and nothing just completely

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Speaker 1: And I just I would write down how I felt

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Speaker 1: in the morning, and I'm just the same, like I

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Speaker 1: fairly good attachment to the body. But you can go

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Speaker 1: on like the freak Andrew Huban read it if you

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Speaker 1: want to see, just like his all the things that

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Speaker 1: I under and it's like forty seven different pills. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and how do you even.

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Speaker 2: Because the time is my question, like how do you

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Speaker 2: that's like a level of rich person brain. I can't understand.

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Speaker 2: Once you get into like the hundreds or like multiple

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Speaker 2: dozens of supplements, I'm like, I can't even regularly manage

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Speaker 2: to take.

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Speaker 1: Two pills a day.

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Speaker 3: I think it's like it's pseudo. Sometimes it's like pseudo.

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Speaker 3: You feel like you're doing something scientific because there's a

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Speaker 3: bunch of companies now where you can go and even

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Speaker 3: if you want to do it by yourself, you go

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Speaker 3: to you know, Quest Labs or one of these startups

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Speaker 3: and get a blood test and most of them will

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Speaker 3: offer a doctor's evaluation of those numbers. But you can

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Speaker 3: look and be like, Okay, my iron is low. This

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Speaker 3: was something that happened. A doctor relayed this story to

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Speaker 3: me that they had with a patient where the patient

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Speaker 3: was taking an iron supplement because they were low on iron,

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Speaker 3: and a natural path that they were seeing recommended that,

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Speaker 3: and like, that makes sense if you're low on iron,

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Speaker 3: take iron. But what they didn't do is try and

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Speaker 3: figure out why they were low on iron. And when

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Speaker 3: the patient came to see this cardiologist, the cardiologist was

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Speaker 3: concerned that they might have a reason for low iron,

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Speaker 3: thought it might be internal bleeding, refers them to a

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Speaker 3: GI doc. The GI doc did a colonoscopy colonoscopy and

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Speaker 3: they had stage four colon cancer. So it's one of

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Speaker 3: these things where it's like if you don't understand the

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Speaker 3: pathology as to why you might have a deficiency, even

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Speaker 3: with like the quote unquote boring things like you know,

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Speaker 3: I don't think people think iron supplements are sexy or

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Speaker 3: like calcium or vine but they.

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Speaker 2: Think like quick shortcuts to health are sexy. This is

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Speaker 2: something I mean, I just found fascinating researching for the

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Speaker 2: protein stories. Just like I spoke to a food historian

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Speaker 2: at length said I couldn't make it more into the

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Speaker 2: article because obviously to focus the other stuff, but she

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Speaker 2: had like spent months researching how basically, protein mania has

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Speaker 2: been just a huge thing over the last two decades

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Speaker 2: the very least, But it's because people attached like a

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Speaker 2: health halo to certain words. I think supplements are definitely

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Speaker 2: one of those categories where people just assume they're an

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Speaker 2: alloyed good because it's like medicine but not medicine, and

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Speaker 2: then they don't ever think of the fact that these companies,

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Speaker 2: I mean, one of the most interesting details about like

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Speaker 2: the supplement like regulation or lack thereof in comparison to

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Speaker 2: other drugs is that supplement manufacturers are supposed to make

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Speaker 2: sure their products aren't harmful, but basically they get to

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Speaker 2: determine what counts as harmful and set their own like

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Speaker 2: limits for that. So there's like no saying, hey, you

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Speaker 2: can have this much amount.

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Speaker 1: Of lest give me an example of the limit. They'd

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Speaker 1: say so.

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Speaker 2: For like heavy metal contamination, for instance, the government might

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Speaker 2: say like, hey, you probably shouldn't have like contaminants like

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Speaker 2: heavy metal or you know, foreign like metals and contaminants

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Speaker 2: in your product, But they don't say like, hey, you

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Speaker 2: shouldn't have x amount of lead in there. The companies

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Speaker 2: themselves get to decide how much of a contaminant is harmful,

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Speaker 2: and they get to do their own testing to make

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Speaker 2: sure their products meet those self imposed limits.

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Speaker 1: This just feels like it's going to kill someone at

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Speaker 1: some I'm sure someone who's already had a situation where

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Speaker 1: they oversupplemented.

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Speaker 2: Well, now, this was a real issue back in the day.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean I think what's fascinating slash scary

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Speaker 3: about it is because of the way this is reported,

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Speaker 3: You i think, get a very underreported figure of when

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Speaker 3: someone comes to the hospital and they triangulate that it

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Speaker 3: was due to supplementation. Because there can be issues where

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Speaker 3: whatever you're taking, even if it isn't contaminated, can interact

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Speaker 3: with a prescription drug you're taking or another supplement that

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Speaker 3: you're taking. And the doctors I spoke to said that

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Speaker 3: it's not always clear what is causing the issue because

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Speaker 3: it could be and one of the active ingredients in

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Speaker 3: a supplement, it could be something that's a contaminant in

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Speaker 3: the supplement. And like, broadly speaking, liver damage is a

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Speaker 3: huge issue in supplements broadly just because when you ingest something,

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Speaker 3: part of the liver's job is you know, filtering that out,

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Speaker 3: whether there's lead or whatever in it. Even if it's

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Speaker 3: exactly what you're supposed to be taking, it's taxing on

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Speaker 3: the liver. So, like, what I found kind of scary

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Speaker 3: in the literature is that even when they know that

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Speaker 3: liver damage was caused by supplements, the reason why is

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Speaker 3: not always clear. It could be because because you don't

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Speaker 3: know what damage like, what it says on the label

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Speaker 3: very often is very different than the concentration of you know,

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Speaker 3: what's in the actual pill or powder.

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Speaker 1: See, this is the thing I've seen in a lot

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Speaker 1: of Amazon reviews because I've absolutely gone down this rabbit

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Speaker 1: hole before, and you'll read things and you people on

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Speaker 1: Reddit will argue it'll be like, actually, the concentration of

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Speaker 1: the main ingredient is different to the one they say,

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Speaker 1: and it's just like okay, but.

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Speaker 2: I mean then you can go even further. It's like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: for that person, the concentration was different. Let's say it's

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Speaker 2: like two hundred percent more that person. The next pill

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Speaker 2: they took from that same bottle could be one hundred

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Speaker 2: per could be like fifty percent less or three hundred

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Speaker 2: percent more. It's really difficult, and it also it baffles

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Speaker 2: me because I feel like a lot of people who

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Speaker 2: turn towards supplements do so because they perhaps are skeptical

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Speaker 2: about the medical establishment or pharmaceutical companies, so instead they're

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Speaker 2: turning to a less regulated industry with fewer checks and

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Speaker 2: no one seemingly checking or I guess on the same

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Speaker 2: level of checking to make sure the products are what

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Speaker 2: they say they are.

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Speaker 1: And I will say I have some sympathy to that.

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Speaker 1: Don't worry, I'm not going in that direction. Talking to

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Speaker 1: when I used to be really of a way, it

301
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Speaker 1: was like three hundred and fifty pounds as a kid,

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Speaker 1: crazy fact, And when I go to doctors, they pretty much, God, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're fat. They'd be like, yeah, mate, I know. I'm

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Speaker 1: told this every day at school seventeen times a day.

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Speaker 1: I'm well aware. But any idea is that you should

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Speaker 1: eat less, I'm like sick. And then maybe ten fifteen

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Speaker 1: years later put on a bit of weight, not quite

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Speaker 1: as much, basically the same you tried some walking. It's like, okay,

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Speaker 1: but nutritionally I can put you in touch with the nutritionist.

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Speaker 1: Like it. It's like the base level knowledge isn't what

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Speaker 1: knowledge or advice isn't there. And then booking, especially in America,

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Speaker 1: getting a doctor's appointment costs money, cost time, You wait

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Speaker 1: an hour to get in, like you have all of

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Speaker 1: these things that are in the way, and then there

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Speaker 1: are full of communities, full of people who will talk

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Speaker 1: to you about supplements all day and be like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: change my life. I can tell you which of these

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Speaker 1: nineteen pills I take an hour have changed my life.

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Speaker 1: I feel really good. And I have a way of

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Speaker 1: referencing that. It's the same way that people get radicalized.

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Speaker 2: It gives them a sense of control over something that

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Speaker 2: feels uncontrollable.

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Speaker 1: And the reason I looked at the Hubanan Lab stuff

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Speaker 1: is not because I listen, but because there's a ranking

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Speaker 1: of podcasts on Reddit, and you're.

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Speaker 2: I assume every I assume right now you have a

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Speaker 2: window open just refreshing that to see.

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Speaker 1: I stopped doing that weeks ago. But it's you can

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Speaker 1: look and you can see. It is like a cult

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Speaker 1: style thing where it's like, let's look at your stank.

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Speaker 1: I think you may, you may, but it's like the

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Speaker 1: pills stank and it's just.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, sank oh okay.

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Speaker 1: That the pill stank is what you get when you pop,

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Speaker 1: when you kind of poop supplement for that. But there's

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Speaker 1: and since I started like posting my workouts few years go,

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Speaker 1: I get the most insane advertisements on Instagram, these news

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Speaker 1: like oh yeah, brain power, like mind brain power. Every

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Speaker 1: fitness influencer I've ever followed the unfollowed has always had

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Speaker 1: like there's this really great one called like the blind Lifter.

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Speaker 1: He's just this guy who's blind and lifts insane amounts

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Speaker 1: and his wife's like a very like normal looking woman

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Speaker 1: and like really nice guy. And they'll be like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's my favorite something. It's like brain fuse. It's bright green.

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Speaker 1: It's like, what the fuck? How do you know that

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Speaker 1: this helps you? Does this do you feel smarter?

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Speaker 3: I think, like going back to you know, some people

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Speaker 3: feel alienated or they don't feel like doctors are listening.

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Speaker 3: I heard that from doctors themselves, where it's like, you know,

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Speaker 3: depending on where you practice as a physician, you might

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Speaker 3: have about fifteen minutes to see each patient. Yeah, so

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Speaker 3: like you're trying to figure out the relevant symptoms, what

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Speaker 3: you can do. Maybe it's a procedure, maybe it's a medication.

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Speaker 3: But like doctors themselves are telling me that either you know,

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Speaker 3: you don't get enough time to talk about lifestyle proven

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Speaker 3: lifestyle interventions you can make, talk about exercise, talk about

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Speaker 3: nutrition and all these things. It's more like just putting

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Speaker 3: fires out so people don't feel like they are have

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Speaker 3: any space to talk to their doctor about things they

360
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Speaker 3: could try, whether it's with exercise or whatever. So then

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Speaker 3: you can find these people who will give you the

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Speaker 3: time of day to walk through you know, their spiel

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Speaker 3: and their pitch. And then at that point is where

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Speaker 3: poor decisions can be made, because just someone makes you

365
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Speaker 3: feel seen and heard doesn't mean you take their bathtub

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Speaker 3: pills that they made.

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Speaker 1: But exactly, oh, like, oh go get magnesium pills and

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Speaker 1: picking a roundom one. There's like seven the options on Amazon.

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Speaker 1: And to your point, Powers, it's like, how do you

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Speaker 1: know pill to pill, how much magnesium is in it?

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Speaker 1: Do you have no consistency to it?

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Speaker 3: I think there's two different kinds of people here, though,

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Speaker 3: Like there's some people who are resorting to supplements because

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Speaker 3: they haven't found something that works for them in the

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Speaker 3: traditional system, either because they haven't been diagnosed properly or

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Speaker 3: they haven't had access to an expert or whatever. And

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Speaker 3: those are people who are very desperate to who will

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Speaker 3: admit like I am lowering my threshold for evidence because

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Speaker 3: I've tried everything else and if there's a chance. But

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Speaker 3: on the Huberman side of things, and like the stack,

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Speaker 3: where it becomes ritualized, like I do this every day.

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Speaker 3: I do this every day. I think that's more like

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Speaker 3: the wealthy or well to do, like worried well is

384
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Speaker 3: what they're called, where it's like I have everything else

385
00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:50,359
Speaker 3: dialed in.

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Speaker 2: I like optimizers.

387
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:55,720
Speaker 3: I eat Brian Johnson's eight ounces of chicken breast and X,

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00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:57,720
Speaker 3: Y and Z, and I make sure I get enough

389
00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:00,119
Speaker 3: sleep because I'm tracking it and I haven't been. That

390
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:03,320
Speaker 3: works as long as AWS is up and you know

391
00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:06,280
Speaker 3: all of these things, and then the supplement is really

392
00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:08,680
Speaker 3: like the icing on the cake is usually the term

393
00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:10,240
Speaker 3: that they call it, where it's like, if you have

394
00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:15,159
Speaker 3: everything else dialed in, this might help, and you know

395
00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:17,520
Speaker 3: if it works for you, and if you're able to

396
00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:19,920
Speaker 3: find things that are pure and like there's so many

397
00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:24,560
Speaker 3: ifs like then maybe, but there haven't been studies to show,

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Speaker 3: like we have like four thousand guys like you and

399
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Speaker 3: we've run this as a test. And a point that

400
00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,880
Speaker 3: I think is missed sometimes is if something works, there's

401
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:37,639
Speaker 3: a mechanism, so like there's a trade off somewhere. And

402
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:41,840
Speaker 3: I think actually doctor Cohen, who's an over.

403
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Speaker 2: To say, I could tell you doctor Peter Cohen, h

404
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Speaker 2: I think he was referred to as now the supplement King,

405
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,040
Speaker 2: because it's the opposite of that. He's like the chief

406
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:55,320
Speaker 2: supplement like skeptic. He's a great researcher and doctor who

407
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,560
Speaker 2: we both spoke to for articles that has been kind

408
00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:03,000
Speaker 2: of tracking the same issue that we've been talking about

409
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:03,720
Speaker 2: but for decades.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and he was like, he's like, I'm not fully

411
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Speaker 3: against supplements as a concept, but all of these issues

412
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:13,520
Speaker 3: we brought up where it's like, you know, before you

413
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,520
Speaker 3: even run one of these end of one studies on yourself,

414
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:19,440
Speaker 3: if you decide to, you can't guarantee that what you're

415
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:22,600
Speaker 3: testing yourself with is what it says on the label.

416
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,200
Speaker 3: And then asides from that he was like, I think

417
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Speaker 3: the main ones that he called out as being if

418
00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:30,359
Speaker 3: his patients are using them, it's like we need to

419
00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:31,760
Speaker 3: have a conversation about stopping.

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Speaker 1: That's actually a question.

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Speaker 3: I had like stuff for weight loss, stuff for exercise,

422
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:42,479
Speaker 3: stuff for male sexual enhancement, which is another gas station genre.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so I woant to admit, like I take testosterone.

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Speaker 1: I'm on weekly ziastet prescribed my doctor. Before I went

425
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:52,720
Speaker 1: and got that, I really looked into all of these

426
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Speaker 1: weird testosterone things online.

427
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Speaker 2: You were doing the gas station bonor bill.

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00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:58,359
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, because like there was like it was

429
00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:00,239
Speaker 1: a weird thing where I was like, I recognize this

430
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 1: is a hormoner. And I've known enough woman in my

431
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:04,879
Speaker 1: life that like, I know, hormones do more that you

432
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,880
Speaker 1: can't just like hormone up one day and it'll be fine.

433
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,360
Speaker 1: But it's it's interesting because when you go and look

434
00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:14,239
Speaker 1: online the amount of cons related to test just the

435
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 1: word test. There's a whole supplement thing of like testosterone enhancer,

436
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:21,960
Speaker 1: and it's just like based on no science. And then

437
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:23,720
Speaker 1: there are websites you can go to where it's like

438
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 1: we'll speak to a doctor and then you'll send us

439
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:29,359
Speaker 1: blood and then we'll send you testosterone in the mail

440
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:31,520
Speaker 1: and you'll inject yourself in the But I.

441
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,560
Speaker 2: Think I love to send someone blood. I love an injection.

442
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:36,800
Speaker 1: No, there is a whole co viiome. I think what

443
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:38,360
Speaker 1: you said like poop poop oh?

444
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 2: And then they yes, and then they it was a

445
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:43,840
Speaker 2: couple that started this poop testing startup, and that now

446
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 2: they're both on the lamb from I believe fraud charge.

447
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 1: So that's why they didn't get back to me. I

448
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,879
Speaker 1: said them a lot of poop. Yeah, some mind, some others.

449
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:57,800
Speaker 1: But it's just interesting how there's this whole predatory supplement

450
00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 1: testosterone protein powder thing online. There's one hundred different companies

451
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:06,200
Speaker 1: that are doing weird share. I get targeted for the

452
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:11,000
Speaker 1: the high protein foods. Now, yes that was any of

453
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:11,920
Speaker 1: those full of lead.

454
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 2: I don't know. We didn't test, God damn it. But

455
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:18,359
Speaker 2: I'm fascinated by them. And it's all I was thinking

456
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 2: about when I was reporting this out. I just put

457
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 2: because every store has like a protein boosted pasta protein croissant.

458
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:27,920
Speaker 2: I've eaten a lot of them as well. But then

459
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:29,239
Speaker 2: you look in the back and it's like, what's one

460
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,399
Speaker 2: of the first ingredients like a way protein it just

461
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,879
Speaker 2: says it's like a way protein concentrate or like a

462
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:37,360
Speaker 2: pea protein one.

463
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 1: I'm staying the fuck away from. Those ones are really

464
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:40,880
Speaker 1: fun though, because you go and look it's like, yeah,

465
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,359
Speaker 1: I need twenty grands of protein and only two hundred

466
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 1: calories for the cookie and the cookie is the size

467
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 1: of a dime. It's like an it's the insanity of

468
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,159
Speaker 1: these things as well, and it feels the Internet is

469
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 1: just this like this kind of abuse mechanism for it,

470
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 1: because there's the ton Actually, I will say there's a

471
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 1: ton of really good Reddit threads where it's like it's

472
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,879
Speaker 1: bullshit and now it's bullshit, which is awesome, but the

473
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 1: amount of hoiploy around like yeah, this subseleuent changed my life,

474
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 1: and then another guy, I hate this. It gave me diarrhea,

475
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:09,919
Speaker 1: and it's like, Okay.

476
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:13,400
Speaker 2: I've been really fascinated. One of the responses I've gotten

477
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 2: my article from some of the people who take the

478
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 2: sublements that the most led has been like, well, it's

479
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,639
Speaker 2: not that much lead. It's actually fine in comparison, I

480
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:23,400
Speaker 2: was like, why are we stumping for lead?

481
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 1: Guys?

482
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 2: But second, like, to your point, earlier. I think just

483
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 2: one of the things about this story that I find

484
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,639
Speaker 2: the most valuable is just people need to know, like

485
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 2: should people should be able to figure out what is

486
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,160
Speaker 2: in their product and make an informed decision about whether

487
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 2: or not they want that. If you like read yeah

488
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:46,399
Speaker 2: that fuel. One serving of Hueles black edition has like

489
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 2: six point three micrograms of lead and you're like, I'm

490
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 2: into that. Good for you, Like, make your own decisions.

491
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 1: I've tried their food like that, And what's great is

492
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 1: they call it food product, which is what you really

493
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 1: want from thing you're eating, and it also tastes and

494
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 1: looks like prison food. It's food.

495
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,639
Speaker 2: Back in the day was the silent girly during a

496
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 2: really deeply.

497
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 1: Depressed I've had I've had some depressed yeah. Yeah.

498
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:13,159
Speaker 2: But there was like a time where soil it was

499
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 2: just selling like a neutral rectangle of basically food slop.

500
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 2: It was. It was slop, but in a square shape,

501
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 2: slam brick. Yeah, it was a slop brick and just stuff. Yeah,

502
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 2: I mean that was giving me some sort of mental

503
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:31,440
Speaker 2: poisoning at the very Oh yes, there really is, based

504
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 2: on es.

505
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 1: I do think you kind of said something, Ashan, it's

506
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 1: like there is a faith based thing too. It's a ritual.

507
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 1: It's like, I know when I've been in the throat

508
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 1: gonna be very vulnerable, the throes of like depression around

509
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,440
Speaker 1: weight loss and working out and such. The ship I

510
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 1: would eat and like the small amounts of food or

511
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,439
Speaker 1: like the weird insulting products I'd eat, and you go

512
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 1: online and other people doing it too. It's like, yeah,

513
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 1: I am the penitent man. I shall pass like in

514
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,399
Speaker 1: the Indiana Jones and I suffer like you do, and

515
00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 1: everyone's kind of suffering together. And at the time, I

516
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 1: was like, oh this is great. Other people, I'm like,

517
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 1: we all are very unhappy and it's but the amount of.

518
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 2: But it's forming a community around being unhappy, and that's addictive.

519
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 1: It's the predatory nature. It's the it's radicalization by in

520
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 1: a different form. And weirdly enough, I haven't seen it

521
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 1: around the fitness things, Like all the fight camp people

522
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 1: I've talked to are just like kind of crazy, like

523
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 1: we just enjoyed punching the bag.

524
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 2: I mean, but there is like such a cult around

525
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 2: protein maximalization, like protein maxim yeah that I I mean.

526
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:32,200
Speaker 1: Well, actually, tell me a little bit about this.

527
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 2: It's well, people overwhelmingly think you need more protein than

528
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 2: you actually do. Like I was definitely one of these

529
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 2: people before I started like researching this story, I thought

530
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 2: I was like similarly in my pits of depression, like

531
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 2: uh and micromanaging the food I eat. I was like, Oh,

532
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:49,880
Speaker 2: I'm wollfully protein deficient. I need to be making sure

533
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,400
Speaker 2: I'm having like seven chicken breasts a day or something

534
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,160
Speaker 2: like that because that'll be great with my working out.

535
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 1: I shouldn't actually really helpful on this for me, keep

536
00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 1: going side, And.

537
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 2: It's just like for the average person, you're probably getting

538
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:03,919
Speaker 2: more than enough protein through your food, and unless you

539
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,119
Speaker 2: fall into some specific categories or have like a specific

540
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,719
Speaker 2: type of like workout need that you have, like you

541
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 2: don't need to be having way over the recommended daily

542
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 2: allowance of protein, which is point eight grams per kilogram

543
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:16,360
Speaker 2: body weight.

544
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm glad you know this. I was actually

545
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 1: going to ask, but Ash when you you've been quite

546
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: transformed to with my white loss, because you're the one

547
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 1: who mostly advocated for doing less weird shit just like

548
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 1: try and get like work on consistency and eating enough protein.

549
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would have guessed doing things regularly is useful.

550
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 3: I feel like, because I definitely fall into the index,

551
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,640
Speaker 3: maybe over indexing for protein. But in like, I think

552
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,159
Speaker 3: part of the reason that it's having a moment slash

553
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 3: sustain moment is that when people like, if you're trying

554
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,360
Speaker 3: to have a rubric for you know, how to assemble

555
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 3: a plate, and you know, the largest things are protein

556
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,360
Speaker 3: and edge, like those are the most filling things, right

557
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 3: with fiber and how satiating protein is. And it's like,

558
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,479
Speaker 3: if you do that, there's not many other rules that

559
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,640
Speaker 3: you have to kind of abide by without getting into

560
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 3: like you know, you otherwise you can get kind of

561
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 3: a little bit disordered depending on how you think about

562
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 3: this stuff. Yeah, but then I think what became an

563
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 3: issue is that there's research and you know, an emphasis

564
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 3: on protein, and then it's like, okay, we need to

565
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 3: put protein in water, we need to put it in chips,

566
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 3: we need to put it it was.

567
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 2: Protein beer, Like we need to we need to calm down, folks.

568
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 1: I like the protein chips.

569
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 3: It's fire.

570
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 2: The protein chips taste significantly better than you'd expect.

571
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 1: Yes, that's but that's always with proteins. It's like it's

572
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 1: better than you'd expect.

573
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 3: So it seems like it's a we're just whoever is

574
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 3: trying to solve like a much bigger problem with just

575
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 3: a consumption.

576
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think there was like some interesting researcher

577
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 2: came upon, which is like people if they looked at

578
00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 2: like two identical like cereal brands that one had the

579
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 2: word protein on it and one didn't, they be like, Oh,

580
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 2: the protein one is healthier, and then you actually looked

581
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 2: at the ingredients in the back, the protein one was

582
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 2: like less health than loafat. It is the new low fat.

583
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 2: But it's been like it's the first of these diet

584
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 2: trends that we've had go on for a long time

585
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 2: without ever having the bubble pop on it. Like there's

586
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 2: no people being like, oh, protein is bad for you,

587
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 2: And I don't think like that's protein isn't bad for you.

588
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 2: It's totally fine to have, but you don't need to

589
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 2: be obsessed with it. It doesn't need to be the

590
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 2: end all.

591
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 1: We both say this is people who have obsessed off of.

592
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 3: P Yes, yes, I think it's like the old the

593
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 3: old trope was, you know how in you know, like

594
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 3: women's fitness magazines, they'd be like I'm worried about lifting

595
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 3: weights because as soon as I pick up a dumbell,

596
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 3: I'm going to be like, you know, jacked bodybuilder, And

597
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 3: I'm worried about that. That's something that happens to people. Yeah,

598
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 3: and I think that and.

599
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: Not is categorically untrue, just to be clear, Yeah.

600
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 3: No, it's completely only it was that easy. It's like,

601
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 3: you know, you trip and fallow and if you pick

602
00:29:58,280 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 3: up something by it.

603
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 2: I don't know about you guys. Every time I might

604
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 2: accidentally touch away, I just get ripped, just like a

605
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 2: rob Lee, feeling like I can't even like wear sleeved shirts.

606
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, just to pop out.

607
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 3: But I think it's the same thing now where you know,

608
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 3: I've been like this. I've had friends like this where

609
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 3: it's like they go to the gym twice and they're like,

610
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 3: I don't think i'm getting enough. Pretty like why, You're like,

611
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 3: I just I don't feel like i'm getting the results,

612
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 3: and you're like, how long have you been doing whatever?

613
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 3: And then they're like two days. They're like, Okay, you're

614
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 3: trying to solve a much bigger problem with a consumption,

615
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 3: you know, solution.

616
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think it's all taking advantage of a

617
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 1: really shitty, sad thing, which is, yeah, if you're putting

618
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 1: on weight, you might be eating too much food. If

619
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: you're not putting a muscle, maybe you're not doing enough consistently. Yeah, yeah,

620
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 1: maybe if you're not, if you're not feeling healthy, are

621
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 1: you doing things that It's like.

622
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 2: They're kind a really easy shortcut to feeling better about

623
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 2: your choices. You're like, oh, I'm not it's not bad

624
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 2: that I'm having a popter. It's a protein poptar.

625
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 1: I'm not changing my I'm not changing my life in

626
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 1: any way, but my life will change somehow. And it's

627
00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 1: not my fault. It's not changing, it's something else.

628
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 2: It's it's not bad that I had a whole old

629
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 2: pasta tonight because it's protein.

630
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 1: The protein pop tarts are pretty good. I've tried. I

631
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 1: feel like I do feel like we're in the golden

632
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 1: age of like low calorie, high protein things. I love it.

633
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 1: But at the same time, it's like, yeah, you can

634
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: just eat as much food as you used to in

635
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:19,479
Speaker 1: protein and you're just gonna you're not you're gonna plateau. Yeah,

636
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 1: and it sucks, And it sucks a lot because I

637
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 1: don't know this all gets back to the core Internet

638
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 1: thing of everyone wants the easy choices. It's like the

639
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 1: radicalization of young men. Oh it's because one won't speaking.

640
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 1: Maybe you're rude, Maybe you don't bring much to the

641
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: cop you got bad vine, Maybe you have bad breath, like,

642
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 1: maybe you have a bad something. Maybe you have.

643
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 2: Maybe all that protein you're eating you stay.

644
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, protein parts are real.

645
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 1: No, they really are. They really it's really bad. But

646
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: it's like you can't find an easy way out, so

647
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 1: you blame something. And in this case it's I didn't

648
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: have enough pills. I didn't have all of the many

649
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 1: pills my stack needs to my set. No, it really

650
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 1: the stack stuff is crazy.

651
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 3: Well that's actually to that point. Like I've spoken to

652
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 3: like health influencers who have and one is who I

653
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 3: consider like pretty responsible, and they're like, we're trying to

654
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 3: make boring things sexy. Whether it's like because otherwise you

655
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 3: can't have a health podcast that comes out twice a

656
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 3: week when just established stuff, because it would be like, hey,

657
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 3: did you get enough sleep? How much of you exercise

658
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 3: this week? How is your mental health and how is

659
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 3: your nutrition? And that would be it, you know, like

660
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 3: but they can be like, oh, there's a promising new

661
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 3: rat study done on one two rats. One of them exploded,

662
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 3: but the other you know, looks pretty cool.

663
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 2: Long as you don't try, it'll be so hot.

664
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 1: Only two out of the seven rats exploded and they

665
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,719
Speaker 1: had bad vibes and the others were jacked.

666
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 3: Yeah.

667
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 2: No, this is the problem. Whenever I spoke to like

668
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 2: fitness or performance like experts in like the research field

669
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 2: of like protein and muscle, I was like, oh, what's

670
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 2: like the best advice for you? And he's like, nobody

671
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 2: wants to hear. But just like, eat whole foods, make

672
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 2: healthy choices, take care of your body, everyone falls asleep

673
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 2: if you say that.

674
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 1: No, it's I like, my big secret is that I

675
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 1: sleep seven and a half away hours a night. I

676
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 1: mandate this, and it's like, doing that change my life

677
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 1: more than any pill I've taken in my goddamn life,

678
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 1: other than like maybe my metal fendidate for my ADHD.

679
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 1: It's insane how much that helped. But the problem is

680
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 1: is once you once you've got into the routine of sleep,

681
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: it's great, making yourself get into a routine of sleeping

682
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 1: that much is actually very difficult. Nightmare and you need

683
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: like I sleep with like the blackout thing, Like I'm.

684
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 2: Just imagining you in a coffin.

685
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 1: No, I really like it's super cold. Oh Like I

686
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 1: like have like the full blackout eyemask. I take a

687
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 1: I take like melotonin and trazodone sometimes if I'm having

688
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 1: trouble sleeping, I sleep like a baby and it's great.

689
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 1: But it's like to your point, Ashally, it's like, yeah,

690
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 1: that would really help. I don't know how the fuck

691
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,319
Speaker 1: a parent does that, Like, I don't know how like

692
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 1: someone with like three kids would possibly ever fucking do that.

693
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 1: It works nice someone who works nights, someone who just

694
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,439
Speaker 1: has a stressful job that comes up in their mind

695
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:21,479
Speaker 1: when they close their eyes.

696
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 2: Who's insecurity.

697
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's act like like any number of things could change,

698
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 1: or just anyone with a decent amount of stress in

699
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,439
Speaker 1: their life. It's difficult. And even like the I feel

700
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 1: like some of these fitness influencers or the fitness communities,

701
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 1: there is a degree of pressure. There's not really much

702
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 1: empathy at all. Like Asha, I've definitely messaged you with

703
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 1: just like I feel like shit about most of the time.

704
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 1: You just say you're doing all right, like it could

705
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 1: be maybe you got knocked off your routine. And I

706
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 1: think that the grizzly fact of all this is yet

707
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 1: it's routine, consistency, actually having good advice, Like I took

708
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 1: me years to find someone who could actually tell me

709
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:56,720
Speaker 1: a routine that would work. I was lifting and literally

710
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: hurting myself for years because everything a RED was like,

711
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,280
Speaker 1: need to do the big three core lifts, You fucking moron,

712
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 1: You can't, you can't. I'm like a Bucks sixty five

713
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:11,720
Speaker 1: bucks seventy bucks, yeah, buck seventy maybe, and i can't

714
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 1: bench my body weight, but I'm healthier and stronger than

715
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 1: I've ever been. But just like on one core lift,

716
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 1: I can't. And it's like squat three hundred though. And

717
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 1: it's it's fucking strange because there's so much literature that

718
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,839
Speaker 1: says that's bad. Even the BMI, which is by like a.

719
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,320
Speaker 2: By like health insurance, not health insurance.

720
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 1: BMS, like an anthropologist.

721
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 2: No, it's by some corporate figure, perhaps life insurance.

722
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 1: No, No, that's Steps, Steps for the one that I'm

723
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 1: sorry anyone who talks about STEPS. That was a Japanese

724
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 1: life insurance company. It was like or like a Japanese

725
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 1: health insurance company. I'm pretty sure the BM I'm going

726
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 1: to look this up live on the show.

727
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 2: I was going to say, you have the technology here, Yeah.

728
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 1: There we go. Who invented this? Adolf Quetelet, a Belgian astronomer.

729
00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:02,360
Speaker 1: Astronomer said that word mathematician status device on the basis

730
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:04,840
Speaker 1: of the BMI between eighteen thirty and eighteen fifty.

731
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:06,720
Speaker 2: Hey, that's when they really knew their stuff.

732
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 1: That's when they really knew science. For example. It's just

733
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 1: fucking stupid and there's so much bad. Like the steps

734
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:14,760
Speaker 1: thing is the thing that frustrates me as well, because

735
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 1: you can do so many steps without anything happening. Like

736
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: I've fallen into this trap myself, and I feel I

737
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 1: hope that it's clear anyone listening to this. This is

738
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 1: not a shame thing. This is a thing that I

739
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,280
Speaker 1: have done many It's like, oh, I got ten thousand steps.

740
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 1: I mean shit, it's like.

741
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 3: What is that based on? Like the Japanese predominantly.

742
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly. It's like the insurance company and it's

743
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 1: it sucks because that was the earliest version of this

744
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,799
Speaker 1: supplement fitness kind of scam thing.

745
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 3: Well, I feel like, you know, ten thousand steps, was

746
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 3: you know, the kind of like the prototype for a

747
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 3: bunch of things we've seen since where all of these

748
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 3: devices have come up with some kind of proprietary metric

749
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 3: where it's like, you know, you got a million Google

750
00:36:57,800 --> 00:36:59,800
Speaker 3: points for you know, your activity.

751
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 2: Strong one every the one I'm seeing so much now

752
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 2: is like your body's age, your biological ages eighteen or

753
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 2: something like that, and it's like, sir, you are a

754
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 2: thirty nine year old man. Just feel good about yourself.

755
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 3: You have boy blood, you got boy.

756
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 1: Should be clear. By the way, if you're doing steps,

757
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 1: moving is important, it's good.

758
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 2: If you're trying doing any of these things, it makes

759
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 2: you happy, and you're an adult with free will, live

760
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:26,959
Speaker 2: your truth.

761
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 1: But I have an or ring and I do have

762
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,479
Speaker 1: an eight sleep mattress. It did it break not during

763
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 1: that I was and I'm a I'm a baby. I

764
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 1: need like cold cold like I have it like minus ten.

765
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:40,359
Speaker 1: I'm I am like an actual creature. But it's I

766
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 1: have stats from my ring, I have stats from my bed.

767
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: I've got this thing called Soomny that does like tax

768
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 1: electrical things. It's great, really helps, and like my rem

769
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 1: sleep is up and I think I feel it's just

770
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 1: but like I don't really have any frame of reference

771
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 1: what any of this does. Knowing how much I sleep

772
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,319
Speaker 1: is useful because it's like, yeah, if I have less

773
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,080
Speaker 1: than eight, I don't feel as good. But it's like

774
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 1: I have for years, years and years, years and years,

775
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 1: I could not tell you a single fucking thing about

776
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,319
Speaker 1: my fitness other than I feel and look better than

777
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 1: I have, Like I can't tell you shit. But there's

778
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 1: this guilt fact factor about it as well, with like

779
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 1: Strava loves to inform me like, oh, you move things

780
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 1: down your numbers a lot. It's like, thank you, Strava.

781
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 1: What am I meant to do with this? Oh I

782
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 1: forgot to work out, that's what happened. I need guilt trips.

783
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think like it takes a lot of discipline

784
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 3: and perspective to not go nuts from you know, having

785
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 3: all this information in front of you, Like I remember

786
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 3: when I got one of the first fitbits and it verly,

787
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 3: very quickly became like a obsessive thing that I had

788
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:43,839
Speaker 3: to stop using, where it's like, oh, I could get

789
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 3: to a nice round number if I go for another run.

790
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,879
Speaker 2: Or like my fitness pal of the trap.

791
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was when I once I sign up for

792
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 3: a gym and they had to like, as part of

793
00:38:55,239 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 3: the package, you could get a session with a person trainer.

794
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 3: And I got this guy who's like, oh, you got

795
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 3: to start tracking what you eat, and I he was like,

796
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 3: use my fitness palette. I tried it for a day.

797
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:08,839
Speaker 3: I was like, this is going to drive me, yes

798
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 3: insane and give me a new type of eating disorder

799
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 3: that I don't want. And you know, it's just one

800
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:16,919
Speaker 3: of those things where you know, some people are able

801
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,240
Speaker 3: to do that and make it part of their lifestyle,

802
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 3: and other people it drives them fucking nuts.

803
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,320
Speaker 1: I do think we need some degree of like tonal.

804
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 1: For example, I did injure myself using it. It was

805
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 1: my fault. I just overtrained. It feels like it should

806
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 1: be able to tell you like, hey man, you've done

807
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 1: four heavy lifts in the last five days. Maybe not,

808
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:38,240
Speaker 1: maybe you should think about it for a second. Peloton.

809
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 1: I mean I've overtrained on it when I used to

810
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 1: do it years ago. You gone the Reddit, tons of

811
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 1: people overtrain on it. You get obsessive. They have the

812
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:50,240
Speaker 1: metals you can get and there's absolutely no like coaching aspect.

813
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,319
Speaker 1: It's not like a, Hey, you've done a lot of

814
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: heavy stuff. Maybe do something. There's no real guidance, and

815
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:56,439
Speaker 1: there's so much because all.

816
00:39:56,360 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 2: Of these companies now operate like tech companies were. User

817
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 2: engagement is one of the end of goals. Of Course

818
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 2: you want engaged users. Of course you want your users

819
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 2: that are moderately engaged to become highly engaged. Why would

820
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 2: you ever want to slow down that ramp? But it

821
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 2: gets more complicated when you're talking about people and their

822
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,840
Speaker 2: bodies and habits and actual human things.

823
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's also just just It gets back to

824
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,880
Speaker 1: the think of there's not much qualified advice. That there's

825
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:25,720
Speaker 1: a lot of seemingly qualified, but it's hard to tell

826
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,879
Speaker 1: what the actual there's one hundred million different people will

827
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 1: be like, I'll build you a plan. There's none of

828
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 1: them have worked other than a guy called Bend the

829
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 1: PC guy on on Twitter and as in personal computer

830
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 1: used to work Microsoft Love the guy. He's the only

831
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 1: person other than Ashwyn I think who's given me like

832
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 1: any like useful, reliable fitness advice. A lot of it's

833
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 1: just yeah, makes it a bit of cardio volumes good

834
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:50,320
Speaker 1: and it. But you read a bunch of other saw

835
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 1: dude's starting strength five x five, you fucking pig. Yeah,

836
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:55,880
Speaker 1: if you don't have one point five x by the

837
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 1: end of.

838
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 2: The hum to your house and kick you.

839
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:01,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna sir you a half. Yeah, I'm gonna

840
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 1: do to what Bane did to Batman and then I'm

841
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 1: gonna log that in Strava. Strava's also shit. A lot

842
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:09,840
Speaker 1: of these things are also shit for logging fitness. Like

843
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 1: it's just like the Apple Watch also doesn't stay on

844
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 1: my rep. There's a lot of just times when I

845
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 1: use this stuff, I like, do people who do fitness

846
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 1: use this thing? Or is this just to your point?

847
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 1: Paris just another tech company I like to I will

848
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 1: go to bat for Tonal and that I've used it

849
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 1: vas and I think it's one of the best ones

850
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 1: because it does actually really hound you about form. But

851
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:30,839
Speaker 1: like things like pelots on there Oka say.

852
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 2: I think any of these products, if you use them

853
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 2: in moderation, if they bring some sort of joy your life,

854
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 2: they bring consistency, that's great, but it's hard when you

855
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 2: mix kind of habit forming products and the kind of

856
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 2: flywheel of engagement with something like exercise.

857
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I feel like it's almost antithetical to what

858
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 1: makes exercise successful, which is you kind of need to

859
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 1: learn how your body feels, which is a very woo

860
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 1: woo thing, but it's true, Like, yeah, you know when

861
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 1: your body like some weeks you may do for exercises.

862
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 1: Sometimes you may do too because you'll, I don't know,

863
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 1: speaking for space, you hurt your calf and you hurt

864
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 1: your elbow in the same week. Yeah, you probably shouldn't

865
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:11,280
Speaker 1: push yourself to box or left, even if your brain's

866
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:13,919
Speaker 1: saying you get fat if you do. But nevertheless, it's

867
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:17,839
Speaker 1: like that it runs completely contrary to a product. That's

868
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 1: the goal is to keep you using it, like the

869
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:22,479
Speaker 1: the you must log in every day. If you don't

870
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:23,279
Speaker 1: do that, you're a pig.

871
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:25,320
Speaker 2: And to have the dual lingo owl is going to

872
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 2: be too kill.

873
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 1: The duo lingo owl, I will I.

874
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 3: Use, I do my dual lingo every day and like

875
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 3: that literally will be like, hey, you haven't done it

876
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 3: would be a shame. If you lose your streak and

877
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 3: I take all of my sleeping pills tonight, You're like,

878
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 3: chill out, I'll do it. But in the garage, like

879
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 3: the the incentive for these you know, the companies you know,

880
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 3: obviously they act like tech companies where they're trying to

881
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 3: keep things as sticky as possible, and you know, have

882
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 3: things on subscription basis instead of just being able to

883
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 3: buy stuff outright. And I found like it's antithetical to

884
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 3: a proper business model. But a lot of this stuff

885
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:06,240
Speaker 3: is useful for a period of time. Like I tried

886
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 3: Whoop and some of it I found useful. Some of it,

887
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 3: it was annoying to me that it doesn't track weightlifting

888
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 3: as well as cardio, and because I lost the forest

889
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 3: for the trees, I would do more cardio because that

890
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 3: would get counted, which is idiotic if you step back

891
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 3: and be like, I'm doing it because of my bracelet

892
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 3: that I'm paying for. But you know, some people, you

893
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:28,919
Speaker 3: use something to collect some data and then you kind

894
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 3: of pair that with your intuition and what works or

895
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:34,919
Speaker 3: what you're feeling. You know, because I found Whoop would

896
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:36,359
Speaker 3: tell me I had a great sleep and I felt

897
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:39,319
Speaker 3: like shit, and vice versa. And you realize you have

898
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 3: to know yourself well enough to maybe make a overriding

899
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:49,239
Speaker 3: decision that it's not accurately capturing how you feel. And

900
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 3: then once you spend this period of time doing whatever training.

901
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 3: You don't necessarily need a gizmo or gadget to tell

902
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 3: you what you feel. You know intuitively, but that's not

903
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 3: something that they're going to say, like, oh, try this

904
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 3: and then throw it in the garbage.

905
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're only gonna need this a minute, mate, don't worry.

906
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 1: Just passed for a month. Who gives a ship they

907
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:08,840
Speaker 1: love all the growth people are yelling at maybe you

908
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 1: just fucking get rid of me. It sucks, but I

909
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 1: do love it. I really I You.

910
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:17,880
Speaker 2: Are the most I feel like metrics obsessed person I

911
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:22,320
Speaker 2: know in just terms of you're always posting your fitness metrics.

912
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 1: I love it, No, actually love It's just also like

913
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 1: good to for me to just do and be like,

914
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 1: okay I did that. I forgot whether I did it

915
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:28,359
Speaker 1: or not.

916
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:29,920
Speaker 2: You know, it seems like I don't know.

917
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 1: It's fun. No, I just run to a local basketball

918
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 1: court and I just run around for forty five minutes missing.

919
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 2: I'm just imagining you by yourself.

920
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 1: There's not even a basketball, no, man, I went on

921
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 1: Amazon and there was a tech enabled basketball.

922
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 2: No. I imagine that your basketball can like degrade you

923
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 2: while you're not doing.

924
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 1: Like clap traps from border Lands like that was a

925
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:58,240
Speaker 1: that's a good fucking no. It's like a condition.

926
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 2: Guys, who should stop this podcast now?

927
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 1: If you if you're one of the companies with a

928
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 1: connected basketball, send it to me. I would love to

929
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:09,760
Speaker 1: play the basketball. You can send all my data to China,

930
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:13,760
Speaker 1: just like a there's a pig butchering operation that starts

931
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:15,240
Speaker 1: in on me because I can't shoot.

932
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:18,439
Speaker 2: If you shoot the basketball well enough, then a hole

933
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 2: opens in it and it shoots the protein supplement.

934
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 1: Right now like a fish getting lost. No, or or

935
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 1: just like it, if you shoot really badly, you have

936
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 1: to keep playing. The ball starts getting heavy. There was

937
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty dollars two hundred and fifty I guess, Like,

938
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 1: I mean, I saw.

939
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 2: This as a dumb person, but my thought is it

940
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 2: wouldn't it be kind of hard to make a tech

941
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 2: product that works well that you also throw around.

942
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 1: That's the thing. I'm like, I'm oddly curious about it,

943
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:49,919
Speaker 1: and I guess and I've talked about it on the show.

944
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 1: I could tax deduct it, but it's There was also

945
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:56,839
Speaker 1: a five thousand dollars basketball hoop, which fucking no, It's

946
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 1: like it's so cool. I definitely went down there. I'm like,

947
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:01,759
Speaker 1: not would never about it is. What it is is

948
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 1: the who The backboard of it is a screen, so

949
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:08,840
Speaker 1: it's like peloton and it's like shoot the shoot.

950
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:14,879
Speaker 2: They are making nerve complicated tech product that is expensive

951
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:17,040
Speaker 2: that you throw something really hard at.

952
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:20,320
Speaker 1: Well, that I can understand because that's how basketball works.

953
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 1: It's more I'm just like, who the fuck is this for?

954
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 1: Because five grand for that you can just you can

955
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:28,399
Speaker 1: probably just go to a local court where people play

956
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:30,399
Speaker 1: it and they'll just tell you why you're trash. They're

957
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,880
Speaker 1: screaming at you. And like if anyone knew it was

958
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:35,880
Speaker 1: to get together shoot hoops, absolutely ashwy and I know

959
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 1: it would be meaning. But it's like, the most joy

960
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:40,279
Speaker 1: I've got out of any of this isn't the tech

961
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:43,400
Speaker 1: enabled stuff. It's shooting the shit with people once you

962
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:46,279
Speaker 1: get over the initial hoop of exercise sucking. And I

963
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 1: wish like it sucks because the supplement stuff online is

964
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:53,920
Speaker 1: very noxious, the kind of predatory stuff. But the communities

965
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 1: online with fitness have been very good, Like there's actually

966
00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 1: like when you get away from the very negative ones,

967
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:01,479
Speaker 1: it's just the people having fun. It's great. That there's

968
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 1: such a war within them of like the the stat

969
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:08,399
Speaker 1: maxes or the cheats. Of course, the people who just cheat. Yeah,

970
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:11,880
Speaker 1: the Peloton cheats are fucking great. You can you can strut.

971
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 2: There is that website that wow you to cheat your Strava.

972
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the Peloton ones. You can change the magnets,

973
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 1: you can unskirt and change the maga. Because when I

974
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 1: used to do Peloton a lot, I used to get

975
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 1: really pissed off because I'd really like, I knew my

976
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 1: stats and I'd see a guy doing like five hundred

977
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 1: what's for like forty five minutes. I'm like, you are fuck,

978
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:32,680
Speaker 1: it's four.

979
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:36,280
Speaker 3: It's like doping in the nerd Olympics.

980
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:38,800
Speaker 1: It's straight off the group. It's why I stopped using peloton,

981
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:40,960
Speaker 1: because I'm like, the whole reason I do this is

982
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:43,360
Speaker 1: to get better, and this is a measurement of my strength.

983
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:48,080
Speaker 1: This number no longer means anything like this number is

984
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 1: meaningless now. I can't even tell this because.

985
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:53,719
Speaker 2: It's obviously a competitive aspect. Yeah, exactly what's on is

986
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:56,360
Speaker 2: like You're like, I'm always being lapped by this person

987
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:58,239
Speaker 2: who clearly just has like their magnets, and.

988
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 1: You look and the line is just at the top

989
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 1: of the graph.

990
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe the strongest guy in the worldator

991
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 2: man like the thigh is three feet wide thighs just

992
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 2: like he has to get a special pedal the tiny feet.

993
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 1: All right, I think we're gonna wrap it then. I

994
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:18,160
Speaker 1: we've talked about the tiny footed pelts on person Paris.

995
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 1: We people find you.

996
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 2: You can find me on blue Sky at Paris dot

997
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 2: NYC or Twitter at Paris Martineau and follow my work

998
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 2: at Consumer Reports.

999
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 3: Ashwin Uh yeah, you can find me at Blue Sky

1000
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 3: as well. I think I'm the only Ushwin Rodriguez on there,

1001
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:37,240
Speaker 3: and my website is Ushwin Rodriguez dot.

1002
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:39,279
Speaker 1: Com and I am at ziche and you can find

1003
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:41,759
Speaker 1: me on the podcast better Offline. I nearly missed it

1004
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:43,920
Speaker 1: the name of the podcast there, but I recovered flawlessly.

1005
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 1: I took a week off the but my fucking premium

1006
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:48,920
Speaker 1: newsletter last week, so please subscribe so that I can

1007
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:52,439
Speaker 1: feel better about myself. Should be a fun, fun week

1008
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 1: coming up. I think I'm just gonna do a very

1009
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:57,080
Speaker 1: simplified modelogue this week and just really run through the

1010
00:48:57,120 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 1: basic sit because I've had requests that we need the

1011
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 1: basic of the AI bubble done, which is crazy because

1012
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:04,160
Speaker 1: I've one like one hundred episodes on it. Anyway, I

1013
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:06,480
Speaker 1: love you all, Thank you so much for listening. Thank

1014
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:08,320
Speaker 1: you to Behied. We're out here in New York City.

1015
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 1: We've kicked us out here and yeah, catch you next week.

1016
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 1: And actually on the monologue as well. Thank you for

1017
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:22,319
Speaker 1: listening to Better Offline.

1018
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:24,879
Speaker 4: The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song

1019
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 4: is Matasowski. You can check out more of his music

1020
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:31,279
Speaker 4: and audio projects at Matasowski dot com, M A T

1021
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:35,719
Speaker 4: T O s O W s ki dot com. You

1022
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:38,280
Speaker 4: can email me at easy at better offline dot com

1023
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 4: or visit better offline dot com to find more podcast

1024
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 4: links and of course my newsletter. I also really recommend

1025
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 4: you go to chat dot Where's Youreed dot at to

1026
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:48,880
Speaker 4: visit the discord, and go to our slash Better Offline

1027
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 4: to check out our reddit.

1028
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening.

1029
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 2: Better Offline is a production of cool Zone Media.

1030
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:58,439
Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool

1031
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:01,839
Speaker 1: Zonemedia dot com. Check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1032
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:17,800
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts