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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to stuff

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Speaker 1: I never told you a production of iHeartRadio. And welcome

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Speaker 1: to another edition of book Club. Today we are doing

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Speaker 1: the twenty seventeen novel Hello Universe by Aaron and Trota Kelly, which,

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Speaker 1: by the way, when you suggested this, I had a

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Speaker 1: moment of like, I don't want to do that one

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Speaker 1: because I wrote something called okay, Universe, this is too close.

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Speaker 1: The title is too good.

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Speaker 2: We's gonna take that title. You better? Oh you just yeah,

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Speaker 2: you just gave that out for free. Annie, what are

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Speaker 2: you doing? The funny we have spies.

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Speaker 1: We do have spies, and they work at HBO Max,

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Speaker 1: which it is now HBO Max Aga because of Shenanigans.

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Speaker 1: The funny thing is I have already recorded for our

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Speaker 1: spenty fiction the first chapter of that, but we haven't

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Speaker 1: gotten through Terminus.

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Speaker 2: So I'm gonna say, wait, have we finished Terminus? No

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Speaker 2: jumped into a new one.

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Speaker 1: Oh, guys, I was just being productive. Some days had

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Speaker 1: days where I'm like, let's just go ahead.

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Speaker 2: Oh I don't have those days. I must that. That's

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Speaker 2: a conversation in itself.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, Okay, anyway, we're not talking about my book. Today

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Speaker 1: today we are talking about Allow Universe. It's a unique

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Speaker 1: young adult coming of age story following the viewpoints of

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Speaker 1: four middle school students, and it has received a lot

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Speaker 1: of acclaim including the Newberry Award. It's fantastical, it's poignant,

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Speaker 1: it's really touching. It's a tale of finding friends and

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Speaker 1: yourself and unexpected places and trot to. Kelly is Filipino

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Speaker 1: and has mentioned in interviews that she wanted a story

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Speaker 1: that had more focus on Filipino culture and folklore. And

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Speaker 1: Samantha and I were talking about it before, and it

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Speaker 1: does have that kind of whimsical childhood adventure with less

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Speaker 1: of the hard rs.

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Speaker 2: That was in our generation. Thank you to the newer

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Speaker 2: generation of writers. I was like, you know what, let's

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Speaker 2: not crush their spirits. Let's give them a kind of

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Speaker 2: a happy ending.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's kind of like a mystery.

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Speaker 2: Looking at you bridge it there Bitia.

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Speaker 1: Also, we almost didn't choose this one because I was

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Speaker 1: worried about the link. But it goes by really quickly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it does. It goes back very quickly. And it's

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Speaker 2: also available because you know, I love an audio book.

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Speaker 2: It helps me like do my multitasking that I need

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Speaker 2: to do. Uh, but yeah, it's very short. It is

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Speaker 2: a chapter book for the younger, younger generations, and like

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Speaker 2: elementary middle school. I love it though. It's so great.

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Speaker 1: Yeah it is. It's really great, all right. So before

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Speaker 1: we break down the plot, let's establish our four main characters,

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Speaker 1: whose povs we're gonna shift between. Virgil, a shy young

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Speaker 1: Filipino American boy nicknamed Turtle because he won't come out

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Speaker 1: of his show. He really doesn't like this nickname. No,

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Speaker 1: it's understandable, Yeah, completely understandable. We've got Valencia, a wilful

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Speaker 1: but lonely deaf girl who loves nature. Kayo a Japanese

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Speaker 1: American girl who can read fortunes. She kind of does

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Speaker 1: this alongside her sister Jin. And then we've got Chet

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Speaker 1: the Bull. I think his last name is Bullins, right,

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Speaker 1: Chet the Bull Bulleins the bully who learned a lot

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Speaker 1: of his bad behavior from his dad, So he'll see

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Speaker 1: his dad talk trash about somebody and be like, ah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that makes sense. Okay. So the bulk of this story

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Speaker 1: takes place over one summer day, and we learn about

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Speaker 1: our main characters through introspective chapters before the action really

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Speaker 1: gets going. So yes, we have Virgil, who is a

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Speaker 1: shy kid who is small. He's picked last for Jim.

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Speaker 1: He doesn't fit in with most of his pretty outgoing,

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Speaker 1: sportsy family. He's close with his grandmother, though, his Lola,

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Speaker 1: who shares Filipino lore with him. He wants to connect

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Speaker 1: with classmate Valencia, who he sees as outgoing and brave,

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Speaker 1: the opposite of him. To figure out how to do it,

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Speaker 1: he makes an appointment with local psychic Kyori I love

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Speaker 1: this and sets off to meet her with his beloved

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Speaker 1: guinea pig Gullivar. However, Gullivar is that that's so funny.

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Speaker 1: It's obviously Gulliver's Gulliver.

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Speaker 2: I don't know why.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Gulliver, Yes, because that's a plot poort later on. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: ignore my mispronunciation. However, on the way, as he is

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Speaker 1: collect what he needs for his reading for five Stones,

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Speaker 1: he runs into school bully Chet, who is intent on

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Speaker 1: capturing a snake. Chet harasses him and then takes his

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Speaker 1: backpack and drops it in the well, and Gulliver is

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Speaker 1: in there, so the poor Culliver down he goes. Virgil

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Speaker 1: can't leave Culiver behind, so he climbs down the wells ladder,

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Speaker 1: only to find the bottom rungs are missing. He does

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Speaker 1: discover Gulliver is fine, but now they're both trapped in

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Speaker 1: the well and he kind of has this whole He

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Speaker 1: has to kind of come to terms with a lot

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Speaker 1: of things about himself. But one of the things is

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Speaker 1: he has to get himself to raise his voice and

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Speaker 1: start shouting for help, which is something that is very

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Speaker 1: difficult for him and something I actually relate to. I

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Speaker 1: was used to be really bad about that in auditions.

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Speaker 1: If it was like she screams, I'd be like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I can't do that. Oh, I was like, I mean

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Speaker 1: probably why didn't get any of those roles. Meanwhile, Valencia

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Speaker 1: is also on her way to meet Kayori for a

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Speaker 1: fortune after seeing her business card at the grocery store, which,

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Speaker 1: by the way, great business woman.

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Speaker 2: Or is a smart business woman with a very handy

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Speaker 2: sidekicked sister.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Indeed, Valencia can't shake off these feelings of loneliness

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Speaker 1: that she has that like something is missing. She's having

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Speaker 1: these nightmares where she's basically like there's a solar eclipse

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Speaker 1: and everyone disappears and it's just her or she ends

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Speaker 1: up alone or is invisible something like that. And in

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Speaker 1: her years, she's even prayed to Saint Rene, who is

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Speaker 1: a French missionary. So she's tried a lot of things

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Speaker 1: to deal with this, and now she's like, if I

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Speaker 1: have one more nightmare, I'm going to go see the psychic,

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Speaker 1: and she does, so she goes. She's also had experiences

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Speaker 1: with previous friends who left her because of her disability,

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Speaker 1: and she worries her family feels the same way, so

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Speaker 1: here she goes. She's on her way to Kyrie's. She

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Speaker 1: passes by the well but can't hear Virgil's calls for

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Speaker 1: help and closes it, knocking the stones that he collected

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Speaker 1: along the side inside and ceiling him in the dark.

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Speaker 1: And meanwhile Chet's watching her and being like a total

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Speaker 1: jerk because he doesn't believe she actually can't hear, so

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Speaker 1: he's like testing it.

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Speaker 2: Also that she's a witch.

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Speaker 1: Yes, he also thinks she's a witch because she's very

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Speaker 1: into nature and so she's like helping a squirrel like

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Speaker 1: she's you know, she goes into the woods a lot. Yeah, Anyway,

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Speaker 1: she continues to Kyrie's, who Kyrie's kind of distracted because

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Speaker 1: Virgil never showed up and so she can't quite concentrate,

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Speaker 1: but she does interpret Valentia's dreams as kind of like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: anyone would be scared of being invisible or being alone,

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Speaker 1: that makes sense. But then she does when Valentia is

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Speaker 1: like less than impressed, she does mention of, well, Virgil's missing,

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Speaker 1: that is so unlike him. I'm very worried. And so

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Speaker 1: Valencia agrees to help Kayori and her younger sister Jen,

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Speaker 1: who always carries her jump rope with her look for Virgil,

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Speaker 1: and she almost does, like something is drawing her to

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Speaker 1: do so, like maybe this is fate, but she can't

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Speaker 1: quite place who Virgil is to kind of describe him,

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Speaker 1: and she's like, I don't know, I don't know. They

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Speaker 1: decide to first check with Virgil's family, though they say

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Speaker 1: Vow will have to do it since the family is

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Speaker 1: suspicious of the psychic sisters, so she goes. Meanwhile, at

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Speaker 1: the bottom of the well, Virgil is having visions at

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Speaker 1: a Filipino legendary bird of prey that his Lola told

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Speaker 1: him about named Pa, and an imaginary conversation with Ruby,

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Speaker 1: who is a friend from Lola's village that Lola has described,

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Speaker 1: and Ruby is basically telling him like she's trying to

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Speaker 1: pump him up, like come on, we can do this. Meanwhile, meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: Chet is bitten by a snake after grabbing it completely

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Speaker 1: the wrong way, and I have to say, even I

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Speaker 1: knew that'sgrash.

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Speaker 2: He didn't research well.

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Speaker 1: He didn't research well, and we will talk about that

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Speaker 1: in a second. So Val and the others meet with Lola,

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Speaker 1: who claims that she and Val have the site or

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Speaker 1: something like that, similar to Kyori. This is also when

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Speaker 1: Val realizes she does, in fact no Virgil. But they

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Speaker 1: learned that Virgil is not home, but he had gone

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Speaker 1: into the woods. So then they try to follow the

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Speaker 1: path he would have taken to Kyori's because again he's

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Speaker 1: like somebody who keeps his appointments, so this is probably

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Speaker 1: where he was going. Let's go this way. Along the way,

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Speaker 1: they run into Chet, who's suffering from the steake bite.

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Speaker 1: Valencia examines the bite and gives advice on how to

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Speaker 1: treat him, calling him out for calling her defo, and

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Speaker 1: gives everyone her name. So at that point she'd been

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Speaker 1: kind of cagey about it, but at this point she's like, no,

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Speaker 1: this is what you call me. That's how it is correct, yes,

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Speaker 1: and that is where Kyori says that they should go

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Speaker 1: into business together her Val. With Kyori's knowledge of the

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Speaker 1: spiritual side and Vow knowing the natural side, they could

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Speaker 1: really have a good business. I love that they could.

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Speaker 1: They could.

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Speaker 2: It's a good business again.

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Speaker 1: Kyri's got a good business sense.

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Speaker 2: She knows what's going on.

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Speaker 1: They continue to search the woods until they find the

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Speaker 1: well and the knoctover stones. They pushed the cover off

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Speaker 1: and use the jump rope gins jump rope that she'd

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Speaker 1: been caring to, say Virgil. And it's then that Val

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Speaker 1: reveals that she had a guinea pig named Lily Put.

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Speaker 1: Lily put Gulliver if you don't remember, that's Lily puts

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Speaker 1: the village in Gulliver's travel. So it's like another instance

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Speaker 1: of fate that they were meant to meet. Kori surmises

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Speaker 1: that fate brought all of them together. Virgil has gained

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Speaker 1: self confidence, Val has friends, she's her nightmare is kind

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Speaker 1: of assuaged. Kiori has a potential business partner, and Jet

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Speaker 1: hopefully we'll think about some of his actions.

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Speaker 2: He's kind of left as a I don't think there's

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Speaker 2: a redemption r for that one with the father, he's

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Speaker 2: pretty bleak.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's like my best hope is that he'll recover

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Speaker 1: from the snake bite and actually think about it and

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Speaker 1: be like, oh.

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Speaker 2: I mean he was envisioning during that point of dying

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Speaker 2: or like being really aimed and being able to be

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Speaker 2: like heroically Hill, but I did face it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. So he doesn't join the friend group, but

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Speaker 1: they all they become friends and I'll talk about this

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Speaker 1: more in a second, but like true friends, and it's

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Speaker 1: very sweet and that's kind of where it ends. Mm hmm,

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Speaker 1: all right, Well that does bring us to our themes.

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Speaker 1: So one of the big ones is just kind of

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Speaker 1: this almost ethereal like seeing signs are going to psychics,

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Speaker 1: our astronomy or fate or nightmares and reading nightmares and

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Speaker 1: what does that mean? Which was really fun. I liked

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Speaker 1: that lot and trying to figure out just as a reader,

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Speaker 1: like oh what does this mean? Okay? Right, that was

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Speaker 1: really fine. And you know, at first, you don't know

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Speaker 1: much about Carrier's business. You kind of see the business

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Speaker 1: card and you're really interested because she's young. I think

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Speaker 1: she's twelve years old, she's around there, and so you're

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Speaker 1: like ooh, I want to know more about her. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but she.

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Speaker 2: Was not wrong because she definitely interpreted that dream about

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Speaker 2: being afraid of being alone and the whole time, like

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Speaker 2: Valencia is like, no, you're wrong, No, I don't care

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Speaker 2: about being alone. I like being alone all these things.

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Speaker 2: But in nactuality, she's just been seeking a friend. And

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Speaker 2: we talked about the fact, like you know, she talked

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Speaker 2: about like having friends with upon a time and now

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Speaker 2: this is new, but like and then you know, Calorie

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Speaker 2: was like, okay, okay, I believe maybe you're not. Maybe

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Speaker 2: maybe I'm just off, But in actuality she was on

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Speaker 2: as well as the fact that she knew that Virgil

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Speaker 2: wasn't there and something was wrong, went into the woods

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Speaker 2: like she was on it. Oh. Yeah, Kyrie had a gift.

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Speaker 2: And I also loved her perspective of a like she

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Speaker 2: seemed like such an old soul about not bringing in

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Speaker 2: phones in her area, about not having all these things

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Speaker 2: in her area, like keeping that sacred. I was like, okay,

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Speaker 2: she's serious, serious.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, she had a bunch of rules, which I liked.

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Speaker 1: I was like, she seems to know she's got that's

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Speaker 1: something going on. Yeah, she If you want to come

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Speaker 1: get a vision from me. Here's what you gotta do.

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Speaker 1: You can't just show up beautiful. I love it. So

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Speaker 1: we have that. We have, as we mentioned Valencia having

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Speaker 1: this really strong connection with nature. You have Virgil going

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Speaker 1: through this whole thing in the well in the dark,

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Speaker 1: talking with Ruby, who represents hope, and then talking well,

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Speaker 1: seeing Paw and that being fear and kind of having

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Speaker 1: this back and forth and coming out Change came out

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Speaker 1: of the well, changed.

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Speaker 2: Speak to her.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, didn't tell his family, don't call me turtle.

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Speaker 2: It took him a minute, it took him all the

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Speaker 2: going home. And you didn't mention the dog Sacred, Yes,

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Speaker 2: who is why Valencia goes through the woods in the

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Speaker 2: first place, not only to get to Calorie, but she

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Speaker 2: feeds this dog that's in the woods home like I guess,

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Speaker 2: roaming dog that she names Sacred, and she feeds him

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Speaker 2: in the woods and he follows her about and during

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Speaker 2: this time, the Sacred is a part of all of this,

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Speaker 2: and it kind of seems to insinuate there's something happening,

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Speaker 2: like there's like he may be like also a representation

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Speaker 2: here of part of that, and that could have been

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Speaker 2: a part of the strength because Virgil ends up going home,

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Speaker 2: and Sacred ended up following him, and when he's home,

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Speaker 2: he's like trying to get the nerve and like Lola,

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Speaker 2: who is a kindred spirit if there ever were one,

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Speaker 2: talking about you know, we're gonna keep the dog. We

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Speaker 2: can do these things for the dogs, because like he

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Speaker 2: brought home a dog and there's something meaning to this.

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Speaker 2: And during this time that she he's like, finally, like,

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Speaker 2: I don't want to be called turtle. I wanted to

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Speaker 2: be called Virgil or his full name or uh, you

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Speaker 2: know what I'm talking about, and uh, she finally and

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Speaker 2: the mother actually sees him for the first time. I

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Speaker 2: feel like that's a big sign of it. But it

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Speaker 2: took him still another minute to really get to that point,

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Speaker 2: because he had already whispered at once when he left

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Speaker 2: the house, right, I don't like you call me a turtle.

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Speaker 2: But when he got home he does slowly come back

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Speaker 2: to it, but he doesn't quite get there because he

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Speaker 2: doesn't talk the entire time. It when in front of

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Speaker 2: Valencia and they just kind of he just stares yea,

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Speaker 2: even though in his mind he'd made up all these

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Speaker 2: things and if I survived, these are the things I would.

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Speaker 1: Like to do. Mmmmm yeah. We'll talk about that towards

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Speaker 1: the end, but yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean I didn't

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Speaker 1: really say it because I honestly wasn't quite sure, and

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Speaker 1: that's probably a side for how badly I am reading

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Speaker 1: these things. But he had like a crush on Valencia.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well he felt that she was strong, which is

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Speaker 2: exactly what also check the Bully saw too, like, because

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Speaker 2: she's strong and just her looks alone of like ugh

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Speaker 2: made him scared of her.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, so she was a I think it

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Speaker 1: was a He had a lot of emotions about her,

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Speaker 1: but one of them was strong in like respect and

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Speaker 1: she's different than how I am and I want to

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Speaker 1: talk to her, so we also, I have a couple

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Speaker 1: quotes here Ruby's side. That's the problem. People don't want

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Speaker 1: to listen to their thoughts, so they fill the world

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Speaker 1: with noise. I just love that because I.

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Speaker 2: Feel like, yep, Ruby is an old soul. She kind

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Speaker 2: of does remind me of Cowie in that level of

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Speaker 2: like back and forth. Yeah, she's also an extension of Lola.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmmm yeah yeah, yeah, So here's another quote. Weakness

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Speaker 1: has nothing to do with how much you weigh Ruby hesitated. Sure,

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Speaker 1: maybe they can play sports and lift things, but that

301
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Speaker 1: doesn't mean that they're strong. There are men different ways

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Speaker 1: to be strong, and being a warrior has nothing to

303
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Speaker 1: do with size. Surely there have been small warriors before Yoda. Obviously.

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Speaker 1: Come on, I'll think.

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Speaker 2: About the folklore that Lola Tel's with the guy, but.

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Speaker 1: Judge me by my size, do you? Come on? Here's

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Speaker 1: a quote from Kiori about their business, this business proposition.

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Speaker 1: I know about the spiritual world and you know about

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Speaker 1: the natural world. It's the perfect partnership. That's probably why

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Speaker 1: fate brought us together as friends. I just love this

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Speaker 1: idea so much. I'm so into it.

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Speaker 2: Oh they're so perfect.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but there's a lot of elements like this. There's

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Speaker 1: a lot of things around. Like there's one idea of

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Speaker 1: getting letters from loved ones, like kind of after they've

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Speaker 1: passed on or whatever, and getting these letters. And I

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Speaker 1: feel like the ending for me felt like that, even

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Speaker 1: though I know that's not quite what was happening, but

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Speaker 1: real great, Yeah, because she gets a text message. Valencia

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Speaker 1: gets a text message at the end from Lola's number

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Speaker 1: that says hello, and she knows it's.

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Speaker 2: Not Lola and that was this whole thing was like,

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Speaker 2: I'll just need to say hello, that's it. That's all

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Speaker 2: I need to say, and everything else will happen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So Virgil finally did it. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: it was like two thirty in the morning, right, which

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Speaker 1: has a different vibe when you're in middle school versus older.

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Speaker 2: It's still unlike anything past ten thirty. I was like, oh, well,

329
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Speaker 2: my phone. Not to be fair like I've done it,

330
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Speaker 2: but I'm like, in my mind, you're not listening because

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Speaker 2: your phone is turned off and you're asleep, so you'll

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Speaker 2: just say the first thing in the morning. But she

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00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:56,640
Speaker 2: was kind of always already alert because for the first time.

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Speaker 2: We'll talk about this probably later, but like getting all

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Speaker 2: these when she never got them from her mom, and

336
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Speaker 2: that made her so excited.

337
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:08,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it was very sweet. She got a lot

338
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Speaker 1: more textbustors than me. I have to say also, well,

339
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:14,880
Speaker 1: because since she says she had like fifty.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was pretty high up there. No, that's gonna

341
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Speaker 2: make me panic. I'm gonna t my phone all.

342
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Speaker 1: That's gonna make me think. I've like been called out

343
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Speaker 1: on social.

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Speaker 2: Media somewhere right.

345
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Speaker 1: As mentioned, fate is very big in this story, kind

346
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,679
Speaker 1: of this idea like Jen had the jump rope was

347
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:41,280
Speaker 1: what they needed to say Virgil, and all all these

348
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:45,120
Speaker 1: things came together to bring them together and to make

349
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:49,200
Speaker 1: sure that they did say Virgil. And that was something

350
00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:51,399
Speaker 1: I really liked it and definitely as a kid, I

351
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:57,480
Speaker 1: would have ate that up. As you mentioned, also, animals

352
00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,400
Speaker 1: are pretty big in this book is a little animals.

353
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Speaker 1: We have Gulliver, the guinea pig, and then Lily put Sacred,

354
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Speaker 1: the dog who does seem to kind of have some

355
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Speaker 1: sense or something.

356
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Speaker 2: Well, we have the squirrel watching with Valencia as well

357
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,000
Speaker 2: as Jane Goodall having a good mention here.

358
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Speaker 1: Yes, I forgot about that.

359
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:24,359
Speaker 2: Because that's why she went to observe the squirrels, because

360
00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:27,679
Speaker 2: she wanted to be Jane Goodall observed chimpanzee, so this

361
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:29,960
Speaker 2: was her way of doing that. She's like, in one day,

362
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:32,840
Speaker 2: I'll be known for observing these squirrels.

363
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Speaker 1: Squirrels are cool. They have secret stashes of acorns.

364
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Speaker 2: That was not what I was reading for you to say,

365
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,920
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna lie. I was unexpected. That was amazing.

366
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Speaker 1: They have secret stashes for me, they.

367
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Speaker 2: Do, And that's how she said she's gonna survive, and

368
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Speaker 2: you know what, respect that made me think maybe I

369
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:51,440
Speaker 2: should do the same thing. So I'm not go.

370
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Speaker 1: We gotta keep all of our avenue rooms open, you know, yes,

371
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:02,399
Speaker 1: but also snakes. And I think, going back to your point,

372
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:07,159
Speaker 1: the way at Chet, who is determined to catch the snake,

373
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,400
Speaker 1: really looks down on Valencia and it's like she's a

374
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Speaker 1: witch when he clearly didn't do any research. He didn't

375
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:20,439
Speaker 1: know what he was doing. I'll say it again. Even me,

376
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,040
Speaker 1: I was like, no, that is not how you pick

377
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:28,320
Speaker 1: up a snake. So there's sort of an element there

378
00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 1: of like learning from your elders or at least doing

379
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:35,040
Speaker 1: the research if you're going to embark on that having

380
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:38,199
Speaker 1: the respect. It's kind of a Jurassic Park element. And

381
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 1: there as well, which is you know, as we talked about,

382
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:51,159
Speaker 1: you don't really get the resolution with chet story like

383
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,640
Speaker 1: you do with everyone else, but you do see him

384
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:59,600
Speaker 1: learning this behavior from his dad. You do see him

385
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,400
Speaker 1: picking up on that and wanting to kind of impress

386
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 1: his dad, but also like really shaping how he views

387
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 1: strength versus weakness. Yeah, so that was an elm. And

388
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,800
Speaker 1: then who is it that has to help him? Is Valencia?

389
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,399
Speaker 2: Right, I'll never admit it.

390
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 1: Oh no, probably not. So another theme friendship or into friendship.

391
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 1: Here's a quote friends. Something about the way she says

392
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:41,879
Speaker 1: it makes me feel like I found something. I know

393
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,919
Speaker 1: it sounds corny, but in that moment with that one word,

394
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,680
Speaker 1: I already feel like a different person. Is that possible?

395
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 1: And so this is Valencia's feelings of when she has

396
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,159
Speaker 1: she realizes like, oh I have friends. Oh I'm getting

397
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,359
Speaker 1: the text messages like oh I have this group that

398
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 1: Actually I told them, can you look at me when

399
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,639
Speaker 1: you're speaking so I can understand you? And they do,

400
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 1: But instead of making her feel bad about it.

401
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 2: Right, not even questioning or giving her looks or like

402
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 2: any of those things, and understanding that again, like Valencia

403
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 2: has a gift when it comes to studying and understanding

404
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,440
Speaker 2: nature and loving things and paying attention to like their surroundings,

405
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 2: Like she has a bigger power and I love like

406
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 2: in this also conversation about names, I love that. I

407
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:31,439
Speaker 2: actually I know a lot of Asian people having that

408
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 2: conversation of like changing their Asian names into something English

409
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 2: so that it's not so hard to say, or all

410
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 2: these things and the power of names in general, like

411
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 2: Valencia talks about loving her name and the fact that

412
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 2: she originally was gonna be like a more common Emily

413
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:50,400
Speaker 2: or something I think name, and then her mom looked

414
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 2: at her. She's like, no, you're Valencia, and Lola's like, yes,

415
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 2: you are. Your name is power, and Colorie is the

416
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 2: same thing. She's like, no, my name is unusual, it's

417
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,639
Speaker 2: different and it's powerful all these things, and Virgil is

418
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,399
Speaker 2: the same thing. Virgil is very powerful and he wants

419
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 2: to be that, not Turtle, like all of these things.

420
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 2: It was very like I love that, and they kind

421
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 2: of all bonded over that, and I thought it was

422
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,119
Speaker 2: really genuinely sweet and an amazing lesson to be given

423
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 2: because I have a feeling I was going try a

424
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 2: little bit of a try to a little purpose, but

425
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 2: like in this level of like talking to other Asian

426
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,399
Speaker 2: people and them questioning my name and like, oh, actually

427
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:29,639
Speaker 2: I'm adopted. They're like, oh, that makes sense. But then

428
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 2: they're like explaining their names, and I was like, yeah,

429
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 2: I want to say your name, don't change it just

430
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 2: because it's like, what is your name? So I can

431
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 2: say as it's given, unless you prefer not to be.

432
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 2: That's understandable. You have to grow into whatever you want,

433
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 2: or if there's other you know, things, But if you

434
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 2: love your name and it's you know, not common, then

435
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 2: we should all respect that. But like you know that,

436
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 2: there's power in that. It was cute, it was very sweet,

437
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 2: and they bonded over that.

438
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a really lovely moment. And then they

439
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 1: found they found these friends, and they found the things

440
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,679
Speaker 1: that they were also looking for as well, So that

441
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 1: was really really nice. And then I did appreciate how

442
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 1: disability was dealt with in this book, because Valencia does

443
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: have a hearing aid and she has been judged for it.

444
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:25,400
Speaker 1: Like we said, she had this group, these friends who

445
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 1: didn't want to play with her anymore because she couldn't hear,

446
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 1: and it made them uncomfortable. She felt like she was

447
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:40,120
Speaker 1: invisible even with her family in some instances. Here's a quote,

448
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,479
Speaker 1: and my mom said that if they were real friends,

449
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 1: they would have figured out a game that all of

450
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: us could play. I can't stand when she says stuff

451
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 1: like that. It makes me think she doesn't get it.

452
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 1: Bad friends are better than no friends. And besides, I

453
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:53,920
Speaker 1: thought they were my real friends in the first place.

454
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 1: That was the whole reason I was crying. And that's

455
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 1: so because later you do see her saying like, no,

456
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 1: I like being alone. I don't need these friends, and

457
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:09,880
Speaker 1: so it's so heartwarming that she found the friends who

458
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 1: don't who are like, yes, if that's what you need,

459
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 1: that's what we'll do. That's okay. But I do think

460
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:17,879
Speaker 1: it's also a fair point for her to be like

461
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 1: annoyed with her mom being like, oh, yeah, you'll just

462
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:27,959
Speaker 1: find that. There's why I think it's fair that she

463
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 1: was upset.

464
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,400
Speaker 2: Right well, obviously their mom parents, because she also talked

465
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 2: about wanting to learn sign language, and they're very dismissive

466
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:38,439
Speaker 2: of that. Yeah, And I was like, oh, there's a

467
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 2: whole of course, Like I don't think again, it wasn't

468
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 2: a part of the problem. It was a brief mention,

469
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 2: but it says a lot about her parents really trying

470
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 2: to be just like just be normal. And I'm putting

471
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 2: that in quotes and hoping that they don't that she's

472
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 2: not so disenfranchised in this way and kind of dismissive

473
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 2: of her worries. It's kind of like when people have

474
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:03,880
Speaker 2: dealt with like bullies or being picked on or any

475
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 2: of those things. Like when I would talk about the

476
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 2: microaggressions that I experienced instead of validating those true things,

477
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 2: and they'd be like, oh, they're just jealous, Oh they

478
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 2: like you. Like those really dismissive comments has kind of

479
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 2: happened from her parents in that same level, right.

480
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 1: And that makes you feel like you can't be completely

481
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: honest and is also kind of patroodizing in a way.

482
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 2: Yea to be like, oh, it's okay, they don't they're

483
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:30,399
Speaker 2: drims And you're like, but that's not true. That's not

484
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 2: how this works. They're being mean and I need to

485
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,120
Speaker 2: recognize that, Like she's having to be tougher because her

486
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 2: parents are willing to handle it or take it seriously.

487
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, And if you look in the acknowledgments, the

488
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 1: author did a lot of research with schools about people

489
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 1: who have hearing disabilities. So I think that's that's really cool.

490
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 1: And then a final theme because Virgil, while it is

491
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 1: like we said, everything turns out okay, it's an outmeat book,

492
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 1: Virgil does kind of face these thoughts of death and like,

493
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: like you said, if I ever get out of here,

494
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 1: if I'll do this, I'll do this, I'll do this.

495
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 1: Here's a quote of all the questions you ever ask

496
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 1: yourself in life, Never ask what's the point? It's the

497
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 1: worst question in the world. Ruby said, because he kind

498
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,959
Speaker 1: of goes through. You know, I'm going to get out

499
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 1: of here. Oh no, it's hopeless. Oh no, I'm going

500
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 1: to die.

501
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 2: Right, What are my parents are going to say when

502
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 2: I disappear? Whatever happened? I want to be a legend

503
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 2: like Lola's story, right.

504
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 1: And having those thoughts of what would you do differently,

505
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 1: and then having the nice ending where he doesn't die

506
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 1: and he is found and then he finds friends, and

507
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,239
Speaker 1: then he talks to Valencia, he gets the thing he

508
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,959
Speaker 1: was going into the woods to you, right, it is

509
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 1: a really lovely kind of full circle story.

510
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, it is very sweet and it's very and

511
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 2: I'm really I was like, I'm afraid that Grandma's gonna

512
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 2: there's so many moments I'm so traumatized by children's books.

513
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 2: Then I'm like, this person's gonna die because I really thought,

514
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 2: Oh no, I thought the ending was going to be

515
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 2: that Valencia was going to discover him and that's that's

516
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 2: how they were going to become friends. No, but she

517
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 2: closed up the wells so well down never mind.

518
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean if we were vis a horror, that

519
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 1: would have been a good horror, right.

520
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 2: I was like, no, I would be scared of that.

521
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 2: I would be scared of being stuck in the well. Like,

522
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 2: first of all, there's our water down there where you're

523
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 2: gonna drown all these things. I was horrified because I

524
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 2: thought that Gulliver was gonna die. I was like, no,

525
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 2: he loves like waiting for him to run away and

526
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 2: never be found again. I was like, no, yeah, it's

527
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 2: not like that.

528
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 1: No, Gulliver is like his buddy too, That's what I'm saying.

529
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 1: And there's like little illustrations of him at the chapter.

530
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 1: He's so cute.

531
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 2: And also that is also the thing about how like,

532
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 2: you know, guinea pigs are not supposed to be alone.

533
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 2: There are social creatures and all these things, and he

534
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 2: was figuring that out and wanted to ask for a second,

535
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:15,959
Speaker 2: you know, guinea pig. I was like, oh no, yeah,

536
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 2: it turned out.

537
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 1: You definitely were like, we gotta get Gulliver.

538
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 2: Right, we can Goliver out of there. But I did

539
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 2: love all of those things in that conversation because they

540
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 2: really do come together. Because we also talked like the

541
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 2: fact that Virgil does obviously have like a learning disability,

542
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 2: and there's a whole some of the things. There are

543
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 2: some offensive words in there that I was like, oh,

544
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 2: that was really okay. It's not wrong because we know

545
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 2: that there are main jarks in the world that will

546
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 2: taunt you for anything that is different, but like, it's

547
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 2: it's really interesting to see because he also finally stands

548
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 2: up to him. I think he yells at him and

549
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 2: then runs away or something, but like he doesn't ever

550
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 2: really like they don't face, but he just goes back,

551
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 2: like says something fondly to him and walks away, because

552
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 2: usually he's just running away from him, right or that

553
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 2: was also a plus. And would you see chat struggling

554
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 2: because he's trying to impress his dad and he knows

555
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 2: that his dad is disappointed that he doesn't make the

556
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 2: basketball team. So he's trying repeatedly to become a sports

557
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 2: person because his dad is very on him about that

558
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 2: and how his worth is based on how good he

559
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 2: is and like not just being okay, still he's still

560
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 2: a jerk.

561
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it was kind of a sad thing to

562
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 1: see because you were like, he just wanted to bet

563
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: that that was like his entire thing is he wanted

564
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 1: to get on the basketball team.

565
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, just so his dad could know he did it.

566
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 1: Yeah.

567
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, But anyway, great book. Yes, I love a good

568
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 2: like children's tell.

569
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and it was really fun too, because I

570
00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 1: think longtime listeners of the show know we love a

571
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: kind of different povs and then pieces coming together and

572
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 1: it's almost like a puzzle. It's really fun.

573
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 2: She set it up nicely.

574
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 1: Yes it was. It was really fun. And I say

575
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 1: this with like a total compliment, but it did go

576
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 1: by very quickly. I was surprised because I saw the

577
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 1: page count and I was like, oh no, I don't know,

578
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 1: but it's just a really you get so caught up.

579
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 2: And engaging beast read because you love the storyline.

580
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 1: So highly recommend. It's a good summary read.

581
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 2: It is a good summary.

582
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 1: I highly recommend. As always listeners, they let us know

583
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: if you have any thoughts or suggestions for future book clubs.

584
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 1: You can email us at Hello at stuff Onenever told

585
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 1: You dot com. You can find us on Blue Sky

586
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 1: I'm Offso podcast or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff

587
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 1: I Never told You for us on YouTube or on

588
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 1: Tea public and we have a book you can get

589
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 1: wherever you get your books. Thanks always too, our super

590
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 1: producer Christina or executive producer and our contributor Joey. Thank

591
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 1: you and thanks to you for listening. Steffan Never Told

592
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 1: You is production by Heart Radio. For more podcasts from

593
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 1: my heart Radio, you can check out the heart Radio

594
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 1: app Apple Podcasts wherever you listen to Favid shows