Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Calls with Dean Blandina, a production of
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. What's Up? Welcome to Good Calls, Um,
Speaker 1: Dean Blandino got another great show for you. As always,
Speaker 1: I'm joined by our producer Travis Hansen, not making it weird,
Speaker 1: not tonight, not tonight, Thanks Travis. On audio Joe Madrid,
Speaker 1: not making it weird. So so listen before we get
Speaker 1: into we got a lot to talk about. Great show.
Speaker 1: We're talking NFL, we talk a little college. Peter King
Speaker 1: is going to join us. But I do want to say, Travis,
Speaker 1: I got some feedback from some listeners and they asked
Speaker 1: me to take it a little bit easier on you,
Speaker 1: that that they felt like we me in particular, that
Speaker 1: I was bullying you in a way on this show.
Speaker 1: I encourage it. It's fun, and that's that's kind of guys, understand,
Speaker 1: that's what I kind of fun the way I am like.
Speaker 1: If I'm not making fun of you, I don't like you.
Speaker 1: That's an Italian thing because in my household growing up,
Speaker 1: and you weren't being made fun of. We don't like you.
Speaker 1: We don't like if, if we're if we're not paying
Speaker 1: you any attention, if we pay you no mind, then
Speaker 1: you really you're you shouldn't even It was the same
Speaker 1: on the streets a while, Yes, the streets and are
Speaker 1: you how far along are you? You know? So s
Speaker 1: w G the podcast standard White Guy, are you any
Speaker 1: further along with getting that off off to uh you
Speaker 1: know the I Heart guys haven't called me even though
Speaker 1: they listened to the show here. So there's so many
Speaker 1: there's so much potential for U s w G. With
Speaker 1: Travis Hanson, it's like we're talking about it. I was like,
Speaker 1: and on this this week's episode, we're gonna talk about
Speaker 1: L L Bean Christmas Catalog said, bring a shark already
Speaker 1: a sponsor or my Perfect Day in Santa Fe, New Mexico.
Speaker 1: We're gonna we could have so much with that. But
Speaker 1: let's get into it. NFL Week fourteen, and what are
Speaker 1: we talking about? We're talking about past interference and so
Speaker 1: we we've talked about this standard and it it feels
Speaker 1: like this standard is kind of this this it's kind
Speaker 1: of like a white whale. Right, It's like the white whale.
Speaker 1: We're we're searching for it and we can't we just
Speaker 1: can't get it. Joe does has no idea about that
Speaker 1: reference Travis, maybe slightly, but it's kind of white whale
Speaker 1: moby dick if you read it, I know that's that's
Speaker 1: where Starbucks came from. Okay, anyway, So two plays I
Speaker 1: want to talk about in particular Cincinnati Cleveland and the
Speaker 1: Jets Miami, and they were two pretty big plays. Cincinnati Cleveland.
Speaker 1: This is an interception late in the game. Cincinnati's trailing,
Speaker 1: I think it was sixteen at that time, and they
Speaker 1: pick off a pass Baker Mayfield past to oh b
Speaker 1: J and there's contact early. The ball gets tipped in
Speaker 1: the air and Cincinnati picks it off automatic review, so
Speaker 1: they obviously saw something significant stop the game and reversed
Speaker 1: it made a past inferiance, gave the ball back to Cleveland.
Speaker 1: This one, again, it felt to me it is past interference.
Speaker 1: He's there early, he does affect Beckham's ability to get
Speaker 1: both arms up to catch the past, So I think
Speaker 1: it's the right call in replay. But again, if you
Speaker 1: start to compare those calls with some of the calls
Speaker 1: that happened earlier in the season that we're an overturn,
Speaker 1: that's where I think we we we come up with
Speaker 1: some inconsistency. Then you get to the Jets Miami, and
Speaker 1: this is a huge call in the game. It means
Speaker 1: it is a huge with a capital you. And late
Speaker 1: in the game, Miami's up and the Jets are driving.
Speaker 1: It's third and seventeen past intended for Vincent Smith. That
Speaker 1: falls incomplete again inside two minutes. So we're initiating that
Speaker 1: review in replay, so they obviously see something they create.
Speaker 1: The foul in replay gives the Jets the first down
Speaker 1: and I think the Miami thirty eight yard line. They
Speaker 1: end up kicking the game winning field goal a little
Speaker 1: bit later. And uh, and there was actually a pool
Speaker 1: report and look, I again, I think this is in
Speaker 1: real time. I don't see this is past inference. I
Speaker 1: think in real time when you see there's a hand
Speaker 1: on the shoulder, and the question becomes does that hand
Speaker 1: does he grab and turn the receiver clearly before the
Speaker 1: ball gets there. And I don't think it's clearly before
Speaker 1: the ball gets there when the receiver gets turned. I
Speaker 1: think it's debatable. Right, I can see why they edit
Speaker 1: it in replay if the standard is going to be look,
Speaker 1: we're just gonna look at this play. It's not gonna
Speaker 1: be clear and obvious. It's either past interference or it isn't,
Speaker 1: and I have to make that call. I can see
Speaker 1: it if that's your standard, but that hasn't been where
Speaker 1: we've been. And again, it's such a close play and
Speaker 1: in real time, I just don't see it as a foul.
Speaker 1: I see why the officials let it go, but obviously
Speaker 1: they over turned it. Jets win the game. There was
Speaker 1: a pool report and and senior vice president officiating our
Speaker 1: Riveron did respond to the pool report, Travis, you have
Speaker 1: a couple of highlights from the pool report. Yeah. So
Speaker 1: again he says, by rule into under two minutes, we
Speaker 1: look at it in the booths and paraphrase in a
Speaker 1: bid here and he says, um, we look at the
Speaker 1: line feed, that's initial view of the play, and there
Speaker 1: was some contact. We look at it. It It rises to
Speaker 1: the level in the line feed where we had to
Speaker 1: stop the game and look at it. After we look
Speaker 1: at it, we get a couple of replays which show
Speaker 1: that it's clear and obvious that the defender grabs a
Speaker 1: receiver by the shoulder, turns him prior to getting the
Speaker 1: ball there, and significantly hinders him before the ball arrives,
Speaker 1: so that significantly hindered is the key language. And and
Speaker 1: again to me, it's is it clear and obvious or
Speaker 1: are we going super slow motion and trying to figure
Speaker 1: this out? Because when you watch, and we talked about this,
Speaker 1: we have two standards. Now, we have an on field
Speaker 1: standard that is officiated in real time, and then you
Speaker 1: have a replay standard that is officiated in slow motion.
Speaker 1: And it looks different. It looks worse than slow motion.
Speaker 1: And when we watch it in real time, and that's
Speaker 1: where I am. If it jumps out in real time,
Speaker 1: then it's obvious. Right then we got to create that
Speaker 1: foul and replay. If it doesn't jump out in real time,
Speaker 1: and we're going frame by frame by frame, that's where
Speaker 1: it starts to get less obvious. And I don't know
Speaker 1: where where that line is, and I think it's hard.
Speaker 1: There was another interesting point that river N made that
Speaker 1: I want you to to to read and we can
Speaker 1: talk about that. The thing I want to say first
Speaker 1: was those two plays that you mentioned there, the O
Speaker 1: B J and UM and the other play in the
Speaker 1: Jets game where where you had the p I. It
Speaker 1: seemed like both of those receivers are able to get
Speaker 1: both of their hands up. So yeah, and I think
Speaker 1: that's something that they've they've obviously there's been some plays
Speaker 1: I think if you're looking for a trend, that's been
Speaker 1: one of them that when a receiver can't get one
Speaker 1: or both of his arms up, that that has been
Speaker 1: more likely to get overturned or added and replay. And
Speaker 1: it looked like they were both able to get their
Speaker 1: hands up. And again, it's just and this is not
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not saying that that this falls on
Speaker 1: New York or River On. This is what we get
Speaker 1: when we make these subjective calls reviewable and when you
Speaker 1: have and it's almost like you can't win because it
Speaker 1: feels like the standard for most of the season, at
Speaker 1: least the middle part of the season was a really
Speaker 1: high bar and people weren't happy with that. And now
Speaker 1: the bar appears to have been lowered, which which the
Speaker 1: league won't admit to, and we'll get to that in
Speaker 1: a second, but the bar appears to be lowered, and
Speaker 1: people still aren't happy. And so it's again it's trying
Speaker 1: to find that right balance of where is the right
Speaker 1: line where it's either a foul that we're going to
Speaker 1: create and replay or we're not going to create and replay.
Speaker 1: And I think we're still searching for a consistent standard. Yeah. So,
Speaker 1: so here's the question that the pool reporter asked us,
Speaker 1: that it appears we're seeing more defensive passenger affairs calls
Speaker 1: overturned than earlier this year. Is that correct you think?
Speaker 1: And river n answered, well, I don't look at it
Speaker 1: by numbers, and we don't look at it by numbers here,
Speaker 1: which treat each one individually, which is good. I think
Speaker 1: that's that's a great way to do it. And then
Speaker 1: he says, that's how we officiate the play on the field,
Speaker 1: or review the play, for lack of a better term,
Speaker 1: if the numbers show one thing, we really don't concern
Speaker 1: ourselves where we are that week, that month, or that game. Again,
Speaker 1: we basically look at each ruling, at each call, at
Speaker 1: each play on an individual basis, and then we will
Speaker 1: apply the rule. Dean, what are your thoughts? So I try,
Speaker 1: as I asked you to read it, not to give
Speaker 1: your opinion, and so you threw your opinion in there.
Speaker 1: So now these are the reasons why I can't be
Speaker 1: nice to you, because again I didn't do Here's the
Speaker 1: Here's the issue I have with that is, yes, I
Speaker 1: understand looking at the play and looking at the the
Speaker 1: evidence you have before you. But the whole idea in
Speaker 1: terms of limiting or reducing the number of people that
Speaker 1: are making decisions in the replay is to create greater consistency.
Speaker 1: And you have to compare. You have to look at, Okay,
Speaker 1: what is my standard, and I have to apply to
Speaker 1: the consistent standards. So I can't look at each play
Speaker 1: in a back hume. I have to say, if I'm
Speaker 1: overturning this call, then I have to stick to that standard.
Speaker 1: And if I'm if I have a similar play in
Speaker 1: another game, I have to apply the same standard and
Speaker 1: rule accordingly. And so again, when you're trying to create
Speaker 1: greater consistency, you can't look at these things in a vacuum.
Speaker 1: You have to say, if I'm making this call in
Speaker 1: this game in the Jets Dolphins, I have to make
Speaker 1: the same call when the similar sets of circumstances presents
Speaker 1: itself to me in the Seahawks Rams game. And I
Speaker 1: think that's how you get greater consistency. And when you
Speaker 1: look at and they do look at the numbers, they
Speaker 1: look at the numbers. They review those during the week,
Speaker 1: and when you look at the numbers, it's really hard
Speaker 1: to say that it hasn't changed, because through or at
Speaker 1: least going into week fourteen, there were eighty three reviews
Speaker 1: for past interference eighteen reversals. Okay, that's going into week
Speaker 1: four teen. So far through the games in week fourteen
Speaker 1: there were three reviews, two reversals, so two out of three.
Speaker 1: And so when you look at the last three weeks,
Speaker 1: eight of those eighteen reversals have occurred in the last
Speaker 1: three weeks. That to me tells me that that something happened,
Speaker 1: because when you look at the place that happened week five,
Speaker 1: weeks six, weeks seven, and you compare them to some
Speaker 1: of the calls that are being made now, some of
Speaker 1: those calls that stood, we're actually at least in my opinion,
Speaker 1: more blatant than the ones that are getting overturned. So
Speaker 1: I think something did change. I'm not saying that the
Speaker 1: change wasn't warranted or it's not the right thing to do,
Speaker 1: but again, we've got to try to find some consistency here,
Speaker 1: and I don't think that looking at each play individually
Speaker 1: and just having blinders on is the way to go, Joe.
Speaker 1: Do you have any feeling you've been very quiet? Joe,
Speaker 1: I'm not something you are right, you know what I'm
Speaker 1: I'm just kind of tired of the past interference and
Speaker 1: I feel like we should change the name of the
Speaker 1: show to the past interference. Well, you know, it's it's
Speaker 1: what everybody's talking about. But some other things other people
Speaker 1: were talking about. Nice segue. The Saints forty Niners game,
Speaker 1: which was an unbelievable game. Game went down to the wire,
Speaker 1: and uh, and so you had two plays in that game,
Speaker 1: two really interesting plays. One that went to review, that
Speaker 1: one one that did not. And Jared Cook caught a
Speaker 1: touchdown pass in the first quarter. He actually got hit
Speaker 1: hit on the defenseless receiver. The San Francisco dB hit
Speaker 1: him in the headneck area. He wasn't a defensive posture,
Speaker 1: and then he went to the ground and the ball
Speaker 1: came out. The officials rule touchdown. It was not stopped
Speaker 1: for further review, But that doesn't mean it wasn't looked at.
Speaker 1: They confirm it. They look at it. They decide either
Speaker 1: the call in the field is correct or we're not
Speaker 1: gonna change it. So we're gonna let it go, and
Speaker 1: that's what happened. Cook went to the ground. He didn't
Speaker 1: complete the catch while upright, so he has to maintain
Speaker 1: control all the way to the ground or he has
Speaker 1: to perform a football move on the way to the ground.
Speaker 1: He held the ball, he had control when he first
Speaker 1: hit the ground, so he survived the ground, and then
Speaker 1: it was almost as if he let it go after
Speaker 1: he had contacted the ground. So that to me is
Speaker 1: why they let it stand. They didn't stop it for
Speaker 1: further review. It's really close, and there's a lot of
Speaker 1: people that thought that was incomplete because he didn't complete
Speaker 1: the process of contacting the ground, and certainly in real
Speaker 1: time you can make a case. But to me, when
Speaker 1: you look at that replay, I don't think because they
Speaker 1: ruled it catch on the field, I don't think they
Speaker 1: would have changed it because he did look like he
Speaker 1: had control when he first hit the ground, and then
Speaker 1: he almost like he let it go after the facts.
Speaker 1: You think if they ruled in complete that they would
Speaker 1: have been in that's a great question. I don't I
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know because it's one of those
Speaker 1: plays where to me, it's almost like whatever they ruled
Speaker 1: on the field. It's not obvious either way, but that's
Speaker 1: once he has control in the end zone, breaks and
Speaker 1: playing the game over. No, well, that's not really because
Speaker 1: he still has to he still has to establish possession.
Speaker 1: It's different when a receiver is trying to establish possession
Speaker 1: and he's going to the ground and he hasn't completed
Speaker 1: the catch yet. He has to hold onto it all
Speaker 1: the way to the ground, even though he may have
Speaker 1: broken the plane prior to contact in the ground. It's different.
Speaker 1: Then we saw Drew Brees in the same game when
Speaker 1: he gets the snap and he already has established possession.
Speaker 1: As soon as he reaches that ball out for the
Speaker 1: goal line and it breaks the plane, that's a touchdown
Speaker 1: because it's a runner who has established possession verse a
Speaker 1: receiver who is attempting to establish possession. So that's the difference. Now.
Speaker 1: The other play that really got people going in that
Speaker 1: game was then a lot of people were talking about
Speaker 1: this play, and this was this was a fake punt.
Speaker 1: New Orleans lines up for a punt typical punt formation
Speaker 1: where you have your two your two gunners, one on
Speaker 1: either side of the formation, and they end up snapping
Speaker 1: it to the punter and he throws a deep pass
Speaker 1: to the gunner on the right, who's clearly interfered with. Okay,
Speaker 1: contact is clearly early, clear pass in infairence, and it
Speaker 1: would have been a foul if that had been a
Speaker 1: regular play from scrimmage. If that not been a punting formation,
Speaker 1: that would have been a foul. But by rule, you
Speaker 1: can't have passed inference on the widest man in either
Speaker 1: formation when a team presents a punt punt formation. And
Speaker 1: the reason is is because what we were seeing and
Speaker 1: this rule look goes black, goes back to seven. They
Speaker 1: changed it to say you couldn't have a legal contact
Speaker 1: because what was happening is those jammers, those corners that
Speaker 1: are on that gunner, they're trying to prevent that guy
Speaker 1: from going down field, right, so they're contacting them beyond five.
Speaker 1: And now if it's a fake, you can't have illegal contact.
Speaker 1: That's just not fair. And then they added the restriction
Speaker 1: in terms of past inferience because what we were seeing
Speaker 1: and I was in the league at the time, I
Speaker 1: was I was a lowly intern, just just doing what
Speaker 1: Travis should do, just keeping my mouth shut and listening
Speaker 1: at the time. But they added the rule because what
Speaker 1: we were seeing is teams were taking advantage. They knew
Speaker 1: those corners were gonna jam those those gunners, and they
Speaker 1: would just take a quick snap, throw it out, throw
Speaker 1: a quick pass out there, and get an easy pass
Speaker 1: inference call. So the competition committee put in you can't
Speaker 1: have PI against the widest man in the formation, so
Speaker 1: it's not pass inference by rule. Now the question is
Speaker 1: it holding. You can have holding on a fake punt. Okay,
Speaker 1: you that that still applies, and so you can't just
Speaker 1: hold an eligible receiver who's attempting to run a route.
Speaker 1: But we do allow, and you have to think of
Speaker 1: it the way I see it as you have to
Speaker 1: look at it a little bit differently. Would that be
Speaker 1: called holding on a punt but for that corner holding
Speaker 1: that gunner from getting downfield if it was just a
Speaker 1: normal if they were actually plenty and that's the standard
Speaker 1: to me, that's the holding standard versus the standard on
Speaker 1: a regular pass play. If you just grab jersey, that's
Speaker 1: holding prior to the past. And I think that's it's
Speaker 1: really tough. I get what Coach Payton was saying about holding,
Speaker 1: because he did have a hold of the of the
Speaker 1: shoulder pad as they're going downfield. I didn't think there
Speaker 1: was any restriction. And I think that's a tough tough
Speaker 1: deal to call holding there when you've got a guy
Speaker 1: that he has no idea this is a fake punt.
Speaker 1: His job is just to prevent that guy from going downfield.
Speaker 1: He doesn't even see the ball. He's owning the guy
Speaker 1: on his block. He thinks he's at the game. So,
Speaker 1: you know, interesting play. I do think they got it right,
Speaker 1: I really do. And uh, and I thought the you know,
Speaker 1: the referee, um John Hussey got on the microphone very
Speaker 1: quickly announced it. I felt like our guys were all over,
Speaker 1: Kevin Burkhardt and Charles Davis. I went on the air
Speaker 1: and uh. And that always always great because that always
Speaker 1: opens me up to another fan base and they send
Speaker 1: lots of love on Twitter when that happens. So how
Speaker 1: come you don't hear that more often? Like just get
Speaker 1: on the mic and say there was no no past
Speaker 1: interference on a call like the the The officials don't
Speaker 1: say any you know, they it's it that's certainly raised
Speaker 1: to the level of where it was so unusual because
Speaker 1: everybody's looking at it, going God, that's past in deference
Speaker 1: and and of course where is it. It's in New Orleans,
Speaker 1: you know, like if I feel like the Saints, Saints
Speaker 1: fans can't catch a break when it comes to this deal.
Speaker 1: But you know, hopefully you know what you know what
Speaker 1: hit me on that play is because sometimes when I'm
Speaker 1: watching the game and you could hear you know, Burke
Speaker 1: Harder whoever explaining what's happening and why there wasn't passing interference.
Speaker 1: But people in bars they don't get the audio sometimes
Speaker 1: because a lot of times I know when there's a
Speaker 1: big place because my phone. If you know Dean, you
Speaker 1: are Dean, I get stop texting me people, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: give you Dean's never text sham. I'm tired of it.
Speaker 1: But I go lyric explaining it. Dan went on the
Speaker 1: air and explained it, why are you asking me? And
Speaker 1: she goes, I'm in a bar, I don't I can't
Speaker 1: hear it. So that kind of answered a lot of
Speaker 1: I don't know what we can do about that, Joe,
Speaker 1: I don't know that, And she established me and say, hey,
Speaker 1: can we get the can we get the sound on
Speaker 1: a lot of bars will do that? Be great places?
Speaker 1: But we can start to we start to work on
Speaker 1: that and make sure I'm hoping that dis announcement really
Speaker 1: let's bar owners know that we did. One time, you know,
Speaker 1: we had we had a college Saturday off a couple
Speaker 1: whenever that was earlier in the season, and we were
Speaker 1: watching games and this table next to us came to
Speaker 1: me every time there was an officiating call and they
Speaker 1: wanted a live rules analysis. It was so good. It
Speaker 1: was good. Um, all right, So then I wanted the
Speaker 1: other game I want to talk about is my Twitter
Speaker 1: is still blowing up Kansas City, New England. Oh my goodness,
Speaker 1: speaking calls. This second half of that game was you know,
Speaker 1: in officiating terms, we call sometimes you'll you'll get in
Speaker 1: the locker room after a game and they'll go, man,
Speaker 1: that was a clinic. And you can literally put together
Speaker 1: an officiating clinic by some plays that happened in the
Speaker 1: second half, and unfortunately for Patriots fans, a lot of
Speaker 1: it felt like it went against the Patriots. So New
Speaker 1: England challenges a first down spot. Chiefs are given awarded
Speaker 1: at first down and look, the spot is wrong. Okay,
Speaker 1: the spot was off by a yard and they gave
Speaker 1: Kansas City. They think they put the ball in the forty,
Speaker 1: and I think at best it was the thirty nine,
Speaker 1: but the line the game was the thirty nine, and
Speaker 1: Melichick challenges it, and I get it because they're off
Speaker 1: by yard, and so he challenges it. And there was
Speaker 1: also another part of that play where Travis Kelsey, and
Speaker 1: this was really cute. Kelsey goes kind of about a
Speaker 1: yard and a half down field and just kind of
Speaker 1: stops and he doesn't really stick his his his butt
Speaker 1: out like overtly but like he's twerking, but he definitely,
Speaker 1: he definitely knows what he's doing and and he kind
Speaker 1: of just creates some interference on the Patriots dB. But
Speaker 1: it was almost right at the yard. It wasn't clear
Speaker 1: and obvious, so you're not gonna get that. And then
Speaker 1: they just let it stand. And I had a problem
Speaker 1: with that because to me, it's obvious he didn't make
Speaker 1: the forty put the ball back on the thirty nine,
Speaker 1: and neither say it's a first down but the spot
Speaker 1: was off. They're still gonna lose the challenge, and that
Speaker 1: that's important because I'm gonna get to it in a
Speaker 1: second or you remeasure and if it's still a first down,
Speaker 1: they lose the challenge. Okay, if the down changes, they
Speaker 1: would win the challenge. So now you're down a challenge.
Speaker 1: So now Bill has one challenge left. Even if he
Speaker 1: wins it, he can't get a third. What happens almost
Speaker 1: a minute later, They rule Kelsey down, Patriots pick it up,
Speaker 1: the ball's loose. Officials ruled down. It's actually a fumble,
Speaker 1: so Bill challenges. He wins the challenge because it was
Speaker 1: a fumble. They had a clear recovery but no advance allowed.
Speaker 1: And it looked like I think it was Gilmore that
Speaker 1: picked it up that might have scored. I don't know
Speaker 1: because tyreek Hill it was was on the field and
Speaker 1: tyreek Hill was already passed Gilmore. And but anyway, I
Speaker 1: he wins the challenge. But now he's done. So what
Speaker 1: happens fourth quarter? About fourteen minutes to go, nikkil Harry
Speaker 1: catches a pass. He goes down to the goal line,
Speaker 1: looks like he scores. The officials get together and the
Speaker 1: down judges, the line of scrimmage official, the side judges
Speaker 1: the deep wing. The side judge who's positioned at the
Speaker 1: goal line will have whether the ball broke the plane
Speaker 1: of the goal line. The down. Judge who's trailing the
Speaker 1: play will have the sideline and we'll look to see
Speaker 1: if he's out of bounds. You'll see this mechanically sometimes
Speaker 1: where the deep wing official will look to the line
Speaker 1: of scrimmage official to to get a confirmation that the
Speaker 1: runner is either in or out of bounds. That's what happened.
Speaker 1: They got together and they ruled Harry out at the three.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately Harry was not out at the three, and uh,
Speaker 1: New England was out of challenges. They end up not
Speaker 1: scoring a touchdown on that drive, getting a field goal
Speaker 1: and uh, and we know how the game ended up.
Speaker 1: So even though this wasn't a scoring play, but you know,
Speaker 1: potentially could have been a scoring play, why can't the
Speaker 1: review booth called down for this one? So because the
Speaker 1: result of the play was not a score because by
Speaker 1: a way that this could and this was discussed and
Speaker 1: this has been a rule change proposal and it just
Speaker 1: has n't passed. And this play, and again you don't
Speaker 1: want to knee jerk reaction to one play, but I
Speaker 1: think it does happen. The proposal was to make all
Speaker 1: scoring plays and potential scoring plays automatically took the potential
Speaker 1: office so they took the potential off because it's hard
Speaker 1: like and this one, it's easy to say that's a
Speaker 1: potential scoring play, but it's hard to draw the line
Speaker 1: to say, well, what if he's down at the one
Speaker 1: yard line? What if he's down at the two yard line?
Speaker 1: Is that a you know, a potential scoring place. So
Speaker 1: it became very difficult to have a real black and
Speaker 1: white type of play where you're gonna get, you know,
Speaker 1: the automatic reviews. So they went away from it, and
Speaker 1: unfortunately that cost the Patriots because they couldn't challenge that
Speaker 1: it would have been reversed obviously, and then to make it,
Speaker 1: to compound it even further than fourth quarter, about three
Speaker 1: minutes to go, three and a heaven, it's ago. Philip
Speaker 1: Dorsett gets clearly interfered with. I mean this one. I'm
Speaker 1: positive that this would have gotten added and replay if
Speaker 1: I can agree, I agree, Travis. You can always give
Speaker 1: your opinion when you're agreeing me. Okay, fair enough, So
Speaker 1: clearly past interference, I think it would have gotten added
Speaker 1: in replay. I hope it would have. And uh, New
Speaker 1: England's out of challenges. So this begs the question again,
Speaker 1: what did the coaches want in the off season. When
Speaker 1: they met in March at the league meeting, they wanted
Speaker 1: a sky judge. They wanted a video official that could
Speaker 1: fix obvious errors at any point during the game. A
Speaker 1: sky judge, video official, whatever you want to call it,
Speaker 1: wizard of Oz, whatever it is, would have fixed this
Speaker 1: play okay, without a coach having to challenge it, without
Speaker 1: a team needing to have time outs remaining. So it's
Speaker 1: another example of a play that would have been fixed
Speaker 1: by a video official. But again, this is one example,
Speaker 1: and when you open that up you have to think
Speaker 1: about all the unintended consequences. So again, all good discussion.
Speaker 1: I think it will continue into the off season. Can
Speaker 1: you share where the Patriots were on that vote? It
Speaker 1: was thirty two for a video official. All the coaches
Speaker 1: got together and they want and the all thirty two.
Speaker 1: And I've never seen thirty two NFL head coaches at
Speaker 1: any point during my career. I agree on one one item.
Speaker 1: They were thirty two oh on a video official. The
Speaker 1: competition committee then ended up pulling back. They didn't go
Speaker 1: with video official, they went with past inference. Last question,
Speaker 1: can you give us a little bit of an idea
Speaker 1: of what the phone caller Riverone's gonna get from Belichick tomorrow?
Speaker 1: I will Bill. I don't know. Bill's great. I I
Speaker 1: I love Bill um. You know he understands officiating. But
Speaker 1: Bill is it's gonna it's if the phone call does happen,
Speaker 1: it's gonna it's not gonna be I can't use the
Speaker 1: same language that and uh, it's just it won't be
Speaker 1: a fun phone call. I've been on. I've been on
Speaker 1: the other end of those phone calls, and uh, you
Speaker 1: know one funny story about Bill, Bill Belichick. He we
Speaker 1: would talk probably usually during the season, almost if not
Speaker 1: every Friday, almost every Friday, and he will call about
Speaker 1: different things. And I remember, and there's some coaches you
Speaker 1: can like Ron Rivera, who who got fired last week,
Speaker 1: but who will get another job. I talked to Ron
Speaker 1: and uh, obviously disappointed, but you know he's he's ready
Speaker 1: to get back in and he will have another job.
Speaker 1: Ron Rivera. If I was with my kids and Ron called,
Speaker 1: I could pick up the phone and talk to Ron
Speaker 1: and be like, oh, I got my boys here. You know,
Speaker 1: hear them in the background, and I feel comfortable. If
Speaker 1: Bill called, And I remember one time I'm home with
Speaker 1: my oldest son, Luca and who was probably three at
Speaker 1: the time, and Bill calls and I've talking to Bill,
Speaker 1: and I've got it on mute anytime Luca was saying
Speaker 1: something and literally I had to put it on mute.
Speaker 1: And I was like, Luca, whatever you want, I'll give
Speaker 1: you ice cream, whatever you want, just be quiet for
Speaker 1: the next fifteen minutes. And because you know, you just
Speaker 1: Bill doesn't give off that that real touchy feeling vibe.
Speaker 1: But another funny story about Bill. At the league meeting
Speaker 1: one year, we did a presentation and I would do
Speaker 1: a presentation in front of the owners, and you talk
Speaker 1: about the game and uh. And we were all the
Speaker 1: people that presented showed pictures of their kids because we're
Speaker 1: all NFL fans and our kids are NFL fans. And
Speaker 1: Bill came up to me and it was the year
Speaker 1: of the Seattle they beat Seattle in the Super Bowl
Speaker 1: and uh. And it was a reception after the meeting
Speaker 1: and Bill came up to me and he asked me
Speaker 1: about to play from the super Bowl. It's always business
Speaker 1: and then he goes, oh, yeah, by the way, cute kids,
Speaker 1: and then on the way, it sounds like that my
Speaker 1: kids my kids are cute. So anyway, we're gonna take
Speaker 1: a break. When we come back, we're gonna talk to
Speaker 1: Peter King on his thoughts on past interference review and
Speaker 1: everything else officiating rules related this year. Next on Good Calls,
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Good Calls with Dean Blendino. I'm so
Speaker 1: excited to welcome in our guests this week. National sports
Speaker 1: writer of the Year on three separate occasions. The author
Speaker 1: of five books, He's on the NBC Sports Someday at
Speaker 1: NFL Studio show. He writes a weekly column, Football Morning
Speaker 1: in America. One of the most renowned sports writers of
Speaker 1: all time. Peter King, Peter, thanks so much for joining us.
Speaker 1: How you doing today? Everything's going Dean? Thanks a lot
Speaker 1: for asking me. Oh, of course, of course. And I
Speaker 1: was saying, this is a little bit different because in
Speaker 1: my NFL days, it was you, you calling me and
Speaker 1: asking me questions, and now I get to return the favor. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, some of my favorite early podcasts were you
Speaker 1: trying to disabuse me of some notions I had that
Speaker 1: long about officiating. But you know what's amazing about officiating now?
Speaker 1: Not I don't mean amazing in terms of uh, in
Speaker 1: terms of some great athletic feed or anything. But I
Speaker 1: mean that, you know, we have become so intense about
Speaker 1: everything is it relates to football, uh, in our society
Speaker 1: that it would not matter if you had you know,
Speaker 1: Art McNally and his prime and Jerry Mark Bright and
Speaker 1: and all the truly norm Shacked and and all the
Speaker 1: truly great officials over time if they were if they
Speaker 1: were officiating games today, they would all be bumms. You know,
Speaker 1: they would stink because because now even the absolute best
Speaker 1: officials are caught in errors that um are just human errors.
Speaker 1: And and again they should take the blame, they should
Speaker 1: take responsibility, and I get that, but it truly is
Speaker 1: impossible to do this job without error. And in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways I feel bad for officials. And the
Speaker 1: game has changed so much. This is really probably the
Speaker 1: first year, Dean where I really have thought that maybe
Speaker 1: Fred Goodelli is correct. You know. And he's a long
Speaker 1: time great um you know football NBC sports producer of games,
Speaker 1: and and he's just so great at it. He's an artist,
Speaker 1: um and you know he wrote my column for me
Speaker 1: one week this summer and one of the things that
Speaker 1: he said was, I don't think there should be replay
Speaker 1: at all because the more you the more you go
Speaker 1: down the rabbit hole, the worst it is. And I'm
Speaker 1: not positive that I absolutely agree with him, but it
Speaker 1: sure some week sounds like a good point, because isn't
Speaker 1: it the case that every Monday we spend about half
Speaker 1: of Monday not talking about God That forty nine or
Speaker 1: Saints game is one of the best football games I've
Speaker 1: ever seen. We're talking about what a bunch of idiots
Speaker 1: and that New England game that you know and kill
Speaker 1: Harry never stepped out of bounds? Said he stepped out
Speaker 1: of bounds. You're only supposed to call which you actually
Speaker 1: see anyway, I'm rambling, no, but it's it's become a
Speaker 1: big deal. Now. I'm glad you you you started off
Speaker 1: that way because that's what you know. I've always said
Speaker 1: officiating is it's one of those few professions where you
Speaker 1: could be really good at what you do and people
Speaker 1: still think you're you're an idiot, and you know, and
Speaker 1: I went through that, and but the thing is, I
Speaker 1: wanted to get your perspective on because I've been around
Speaker 1: the NFL officiating NFL for twenty five years. You've been
Speaker 1: around longer than that. Does it is this season feel different?
Speaker 1: Does it feel like the normal course of that's just
Speaker 1: officiating and there's always going to be that angst, or
Speaker 1: does it feel different to you, you know, someone in
Speaker 1: the media that's been around for a long time, Dan,
Speaker 1: it feels different because because of the new pass interference rules.
Speaker 1: And I'm I'm just reminded when we go back and
Speaker 1: do a little historical perspective of this that when this um,
Speaker 1: when this new replay review process of past interference calls
Speaker 1: and non calls was put on the books the last
Speaker 1: week of March in Phoenix, you know, we we went
Speaker 1: to the press conferences and heard the Competition committee, heard
Speaker 1: our river n discuss what it would take to either
Speaker 1: put the proverbial flag on the field, in other words,
Speaker 1: to call pass interference, uh, you know in New York
Speaker 1: when it wasn't called on the field, or to change
Speaker 1: a call that was made on the field. And at
Speaker 1: that meeting and many times thereafter, our river Ran said that, uh,
Speaker 1: it's going to take clear and obvious visual evidence to
Speaker 1: change a call. And somehow, some way, you know, it
Speaker 1: didn't happen that way. There were many calls. The one
Speaker 1: I still think is the most egregious. Uh even though
Speaker 1: it was at a time of the game that it
Speaker 1: was meaningless. Was in the Giants Patriots game when when
Speaker 1: Golden Tate got mugged by I think John Jones, I'm
Speaker 1: not I forget, but he got mugged by a Patriots
Speaker 1: defensive back. And there's never been This was as clear
Speaker 1: and example of interference as nickl Roby Coleman on Tommy
Speaker 1: Lee Lewis in the NFC Championship game and and it
Speaker 1: was flagged by Pat Sherman and it came back. Uh No,
Speaker 1: we did not see clear and obvious evidence to change
Speaker 1: the call. And again, look, my only thing is if
Speaker 1: you make a rule in March and you explain to
Speaker 1: everybody here's how it's going to be adjudicated, here's how
Speaker 1: the games are going to be a ficiy at it,
Speaker 1: then that's the way it should be. If you don't
Speaker 1: like it, and if you're changing too many of the
Speaker 1: calls and people don't like it, the next March it's
Speaker 1: only on the books for a year, you can change it.
Speaker 1: But somehow, some way, Al River n either got the
Speaker 1: word from Roger Goodell you would know better than I,
Speaker 1: or got a little nudge from Troy Vincent or somebody
Speaker 1: in the football ops department to say, hey, uh, go
Speaker 1: easy on those things. I mean, it has to be
Speaker 1: an absolute uh bludgeoning of a guy for you to
Speaker 1: overturn the ruling on the field or to put a
Speaker 1: flag on the field. And and that's not the way
Speaker 1: it was first explained. And that's why I have been
Speaker 1: so hard on both River n and the officiating department,
Speaker 1: Rich McKay and the competition committee because they simply have
Speaker 1: not done what they said they were going to do.
Speaker 1: And and that's what I would agree, that's what it
Speaker 1: feels like. And I don't know. I don't know if
Speaker 1: someone spoke to Al or was the competition aising committee
Speaker 1: or Troy of the Commissioner, I don't know. I do
Speaker 1: know that what happens sometimes during the season, the competition
Speaker 1: many committee gets together, there's a phone call and they
Speaker 1: may adjust. And it does feel like there's been an
Speaker 1: adjustment because that golden tap call. Again, I agree with you,
Speaker 1: that was obvious past and inference not called on the field,
Speaker 1: and they let it stand in replay. But I think
Speaker 1: what we're seeing these past couple of weeks is some
Speaker 1: calls being created in replay that are not quite as
Speaker 1: obvious as that tape play. So somebody, somebody did get
Speaker 1: to al or some there was some communication to loosen
Speaker 1: up the standard. But again, I do feel like it's
Speaker 1: gone a couple of different ways this season, and that's
Speaker 1: been frustrating for a lot of people. D And all
Speaker 1: anybody wants, UH, is for if you're going to set
Speaker 1: up a rule, all anybody wants is for the rule
Speaker 1: to be a judy kt the way you said it
Speaker 1: was going to be. It kind of reminds me of
Speaker 1: lowering ahead to initiate contact last year. It was called
Speaker 1: endlessly in the preseason and I remember last year, And
Speaker 1: I'll take his quick story. I did uh, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I did maybe fifty interviews during the course of the
Speaker 1: season on the helmet and I did a long podcast
Speaker 1: in the off season about what was going on with
Speaker 1: with helmet um technology helmet manufacturing. I went out to Vices,
Speaker 1: the helmet company in Seattle, UH, spend a day out
Speaker 1: there and watched some of the new things they were doing.
Speaker 1: But anyway, be that as it may, UM, you know,
Speaker 1: I remember being with some NFL people during the course
Speaker 1: of that and these are the NFL Health and safety
Speaker 1: uh people, and they never say anything, but they would
Speaker 1: totally roll their eyes when we would talk about how
Speaker 1: why in the world would you put this rule on
Speaker 1: the books about lowering your head to initiate contact. Call
Speaker 1: it maybe I don't know how many times, thirty or
Speaker 1: forty times in the preseason, maybe maybe more than that. Um.
Speaker 1: And then once the regular season started, I I would guess,
Speaker 1: this is just a guess, and I might be wrong.
Speaker 1: I guess they called it ten or fifteen times during
Speaker 1: the season. I don't know that, but yeah, yeah, but
Speaker 1: it was nothing like was what was happening in the preseason.
Speaker 1: And look, a foul is a foul. I have always
Speaker 1: felt when I have written about the NFL, written anything
Speaker 1: about officiating. You have to call the game the same
Speaker 1: way in a preseason game in August as you do
Speaker 1: in a playoff game in January. UM. And it's like
Speaker 1: with the with the play in New England with the
Speaker 1: down judge and the side judge and then Kiel Harry
Speaker 1: uh and and and what happened on that particular play.
Speaker 1: The replay obviously showed that his foot did not hit
Speaker 1: the white stripe. His foot was inbounds of the whole time,
Speaker 1: and anyway one official made a call that he thought
Speaker 1: he saw and that is the manter, right. You probably
Speaker 1: remember when I did a week and like Officiating Crew
Speaker 1: and and Gene Territory in two thousand thirteen. I remember
Speaker 1: the Saturday before the Colts are the Bears Ravens game
Speaker 1: in Chicago that Saturday, sitting in that room, Jean was
Speaker 1: running the meeting, and he was very strident about when
Speaker 1: he was looking at some of the officiating tape that
Speaker 1: that you guys had sent out that week. And this
Speaker 1: obviously was at the time when you were senior VP
Speaker 1: of of Officiating. And one of the things that Jean
Speaker 1: talked about, not only that day but other points during
Speaker 1: the week is guys, guys, guys, we're only calling what
Speaker 1: we see. Don't assume. Don't assume anything. If you're if
Speaker 1: you're shielded by a plate, don't call it. You didn't
Speaker 1: see it. Uh. And And so sometimes, you know, I
Speaker 1: think it's human nature to to say you saw the
Speaker 1: result of what you assumed was let's say, hands to
Speaker 1: the face, but you didn't see it, so you can't
Speaker 1: call it. And that's that's the only thing that I say,
Speaker 1: all we want, I think at both in media fans
Speaker 1: the public is to be able to call a play exactly.
Speaker 1: I call it the way I see it, you know,
Speaker 1: the old the old mantra, And that's all anybody really
Speaker 1: wants when it comes to officiate. Yeah, and I think
Speaker 1: we've seen some plays this season, especially you go back
Speaker 1: Saints Rams with an incomplete pass ruling Saints pick it
Speaker 1: up should be a touchdown. We saw the play in
Speaker 1: the game Sunday with the Patriots and Chiefs were ruled
Speaker 1: down and it was a fumbled Kelsey. Then you had
Speaker 1: obviously had the play near the goal line with Harry
Speaker 1: getting ruled, you know, being ruled out of bounds. And
Speaker 1: that's something that Jane was absolutely right, and that's what
Speaker 1: we would teach officials. You you have to The worst
Speaker 1: mistaken official could make is is calling something that's not there,
Speaker 1: and so you have to see the entire action. And
Speaker 1: uh and you know you you asked me this question
Speaker 1: before the season about, you know, if I could you
Speaker 1: know things looking forward in the NFL and changes I
Speaker 1: would make. And I'd kind of pose that same question
Speaker 1: to you if it were up to you or you
Speaker 1: were part of that that decision making process with this rule,
Speaker 1: this p I review what we know. Now you're in
Speaker 1: the off season, what would be Where do you think
Speaker 1: the league should go with replay and especially on past
Speaker 1: an inference? Well, I think there would There should be
Speaker 1: two questions asked. First of all, Number one, Um, is
Speaker 1: this something that is just no matter what you know.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna preface my response by making this one point
Speaker 1: to you for for for your listeners who don't may
Speaker 1: not know this. Okay, Every year, uh, the NFL puts
Speaker 1: on a seminar for the television networks, and so each
Speaker 1: television network will spend I don't know, maybe four or
Speaker 1: five hours either at the NFL office or league people
Speaker 1: will go to one of the network facilities and just
Speaker 1: spend four or five hours going over all the new
Speaker 1: rules everything for the course of the year. And I
Speaker 1: remember this year when we went when NBC went to
Speaker 1: the NFL office, you know it was I was there
Speaker 1: with Tony Dungee and and Rodney Harrison and Tariko and
Speaker 1: a lot of the behind this seems people and and
Speaker 1: so we're all just sitting there and when it was
Speaker 1: our Riveran's turn, um to go over Okay, we're gonna
Speaker 1: talk about past interference. You know, I think he might
Speaker 1: have run eight or ten calls, and he basically said, Okay,
Speaker 1: here's how we view this. How do you guys view it?
Speaker 1: And I disagreed with him on half the calls, you know,
Speaker 1: in other words, I disagreed that that was interference. This
Speaker 1: wasn't interference, and there's nothing wrong with that. I wasn't
Speaker 1: trying to be obstinately. But Tony Dungee was the same way.
Speaker 1: He said, oh, you can't call that, blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: And so I walked out of there that day saying,
Speaker 1: you know, this is gonna be a problem. You know,
Speaker 1: it's the ultimate pass. Interference is the ultimate difficult call
Speaker 1: by officials, in part because you cannot call it absolutely
Speaker 1: by the letter of the law, because there is so
Speaker 1: much permissible, both hand fighting and contact. And so you know,
Speaker 1: I said to somebody I would love to know on
Speaker 1: the Chargers Denver, basically second to last play in week
Speaker 1: fourteen are in week thirteen when when Drew lock of
Speaker 1: the of the Broncos obviously was just fishing for a
Speaker 1: long O p I call or long dp I call,
Speaker 1: and so he just threw a bomb up there to
Speaker 1: Courtland Sutton and Casey Hayward and he banged into each
Speaker 1: other and they called it on Hayward. Now, I I
Speaker 1: didn't hate the call, you know, even though Denver basically
Speaker 1: is just sort of gaming the system by trying to
Speaker 1: get a pass interference call and all that. But but
Speaker 1: it just it's just is part of the issue and
Speaker 1: part of the problem on pass interference. If ten people
Speaker 1: look at that Casey, Hayward, court and Sutton call, I'm
Speaker 1: guessing maybe five or six would have called it d P.
Speaker 1: I maybe eight, but I doubt sincerely it would be ten.
Speaker 1: For ten, even smart football people and or back judges,
Speaker 1: let's say, I don't know one would have called it.
Speaker 1: So I'm I'm I'm saying that only to tell you
Speaker 1: that I just think pass interference might be a bridge
Speaker 1: too far. It might be the one call in pro
Speaker 1: football right now that you should not replay review that
Speaker 1: You're just simply going to have to take some bad
Speaker 1: with the good, and you're gonna have to trust that
Speaker 1: this is the ultimate human judgment call and not try
Speaker 1: to fix every call that is wrong, because as we've
Speaker 1: seen during the course of this year, they change some
Speaker 1: they don't change others. It almost seems uh, you know
Speaker 1: it all most seems almost there's no science to it.
Speaker 1: And so if you're asking me what to do, what
Speaker 1: I would say is, I do not think pass interference
Speaker 1: now anymore, after seeing the debacle of this year, I
Speaker 1: just don't think it should be replay reviewable at all.
Speaker 1: And I would be and I would be shocked if
Speaker 1: there aren't some members of the Competition Committe that feel
Speaker 1: that exact way. And I think they were. You know,
Speaker 1: I've been a part of those meetings. They were very
Speaker 1: hesitant to add anything subjective and past inference is other
Speaker 1: than offensive. Holding past inference is the most subjective call
Speaker 1: that we have in the game, and they were, they
Speaker 1: were so hesitant, and then you you have the play
Speaker 1: in the NFC Championship game and that ultimately you know,
Speaker 1: it was the driver behind it. And I think, Jean,
Speaker 1: I have to say this. I have to say this
Speaker 1: being at that meeting. You know, I was talking to
Speaker 1: a few of my buddies in a press box, I
Speaker 1: don't know, sometime in the last month, and we're all
Speaker 1: sort of recalling it's all guys who and and one
Speaker 1: woman who covered the NFL regularly and many of whom
Speaker 1: many of us go to these meetings, and I I
Speaker 1: made this point that it was almost like, okay, uh,
Speaker 1: league meetings are funny things, as you know you've been
Speaker 1: to so many of them, because okay, you want to
Speaker 1: get all serious business done by end of day Tuesday,
Speaker 1: because most owners are not staying past lunch on Wednesday,
Speaker 1: and many of them are leaving, you know, nine o'clock
Speaker 1: Tuesday night. Uh there, you know, three days in one
Speaker 1: place is enough for those guys there there, they they
Speaker 1: just don't want to stay. So in other words, as
Speaker 1: we were there during that day on Tuesday, I could
Speaker 1: just sense there was so much momentum. It's like my
Speaker 1: father used to say to me, like if I was
Speaker 1: just sitting around the house, do something, even if it's wrong,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, you know, let's let's get going.
Speaker 1: And I sensed that day Sean Payton, Jason Garrett, rich McKay,
Speaker 1: the League people, League office people, Oh, we're gonna get
Speaker 1: something done. Troy Vincent, we're going to respond to this.
Speaker 1: We're going to get something done. And you know, I
Speaker 1: I and again I wasn't being critical because I felt
Speaker 1: that they're really needed to be a fail safe for
Speaker 1: a play like happened in the in the championship game,
Speaker 1: because truly, you say whatever you want, but there's a
Speaker 1: very good chance that the wrong team went to the
Speaker 1: super Bowl. And so and so, I think because there
Speaker 1: was a little bit of impatience, uh, to really do
Speaker 1: something and not wait until May to do it, because
Speaker 1: people felt like, if we get out of here in
Speaker 1: these if we leave this meeting, um, this is gonna
Speaker 1: be hard to get this same momentum back at the
Speaker 1: spring meetings, which are significantly less i'd call them intense
Speaker 1: than than the ones, uh in March, where everybody is
Speaker 1: at not everybody goes to the May now you don't
Speaker 1: have it and the head coaches aren't in the meeting
Speaker 1: in May. Yeah, yeah, and so I guess my my
Speaker 1: whole thing is, I just I sensed that the the
Speaker 1: NFL was gonna do something no matter what, uh what
Speaker 1: unintended consequences it led to. And I think that's what
Speaker 1: we're seeing. You know, in my experience with the Competition Committee,
Speaker 1: you've tried to vet out those unintended consequences this this
Speaker 1: went through, and I agree there was a lot of
Speaker 1: momentum you lose that momentum if you leave Phoenix in
Speaker 1: March and you wait until May. And they felt they
Speaker 1: had to do something and have that press conference, and
Speaker 1: they had it. And now we're seeing all of the
Speaker 1: unintended consequences play out during the season, and I'm not
Speaker 1: sure that's a good thing. Yeah, but you know, look,
Speaker 1: it's only for one year. Nobody died UM and after yeah,
Speaker 1: after the UM, you know, after the incredible emotion of
Speaker 1: Sunday and Monday, most people can take a deep breath
Speaker 1: and say, Okay, how should we fix this. We might
Speaker 1: have made a mistake, and so let's let cooler heads
Speaker 1: prevail and basically say, you know, unless you're gonna make
Speaker 1: every call and every play replay reviewable, which for a
Speaker 1: while I really favored Bill Belichick still favors it. UM.
Speaker 1: I just don't know. It's that it's a very good
Speaker 1: idea to to replay such an incredibly subjective call. I
Speaker 1: would agree, And and I don't think we play like
Speaker 1: we talked about earlier. I don't think replay is ever
Speaker 1: going away. You know, it's it's still overwhelmingly good, and
Speaker 1: it prevents outcomes from being decided ultimately by officiating mistakes.
Speaker 1: But I do think we we have to draw the line,
Speaker 1: and I think what we're seeing this year is maybe
Speaker 1: that line stops with calls like past interference and holding
Speaker 1: in other things, and we stick to the more objective.
Speaker 1: Can I ask you just one question that has been
Speaker 1: on my mind in the last few weeks, and that is,
Speaker 1: you know, everybody always says, um, and I've talked to
Speaker 1: Terry macaulay of NBC about it, that it's always been
Speaker 1: stressed two officials that you know, if there is a
Speaker 1: question whether somebody is down by contact and the ball
Speaker 1: is loose, let the play go because obviously it's going
Speaker 1: to be a turnover and is going to be adjudicated
Speaker 1: by replay anyway. So just don't blow the whistle. And
Speaker 1: I've aslee we saw another case of it on Sunday
Speaker 1: whereas to find Gilmore of the Patriots picked up what
Speaker 1: was a fumble by Travis Kelsey. But because the whistles blew, um,
Speaker 1: you know, the play the play was dead. Now would
Speaker 1: Gilmore have scored a touchdown? Likely but not certainly um
Speaker 1: if the Chiefs were chasing them seriously, But but be that,
Speaker 1: as may, why is that play so difficult for officials
Speaker 1: to not blow the whistle and and and truly wait
Speaker 1: until the end of whatever happens. Yeah, it's a great question,
Speaker 1: and it's something that that honestly, we've struggled with because
Speaker 1: you're asking officials to, you know, call what they see.
Speaker 1: You want an official to be decisive, to use their
Speaker 1: their judgment. And it's almost as if if you, if
Speaker 1: you hit them with that too much, and you and
Speaker 1: you and you basically hammer it to say let it go,
Speaker 1: let it go, let it go, do become less decisive
Speaker 1: and do they rely on replay as a crutch where
Speaker 1: it really just should be a safety net. And that's
Speaker 1: where it's it's a it's a delicate balance to say,
Speaker 1: we want you to be decisive, rule on what you see.
Speaker 1: If you have the player down, rule him down, and
Speaker 1: then you always give that okay, But if there is doubt,
Speaker 1: not not what we're not saying, we're not trying to
Speaker 1: plant the seed of doubt. But if there is doubt,
Speaker 1: then don't blow the play dead. But again, it's that
Speaker 1: balance because if you continue to give them that that
Speaker 1: that same thing over and over, then you plant that
Speaker 1: seed of doubt. Now they become less decisive, and I
Speaker 1: think that's always been one of the challenges. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: as I watched the Kelsey play on replay, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not excusing you know, the the what turned out
Speaker 1: to be early whistles on the play, but it was
Speaker 1: a very difficult, uhumble to see with the naked eye.
Speaker 1: You really didn't see it until you saw the replays
Speaker 1: from a couple of different angles, and and it was
Speaker 1: slowed down and and again that's one of the reasons why. Look,
Speaker 1: it was a mistake, but I cannot kill the officials
Speaker 1: for that mistake, because if I were on the field,
Speaker 1: I would have said, hey, he's down, you know, plays over,
Speaker 1: uh And I probably would have you know, mentally I had.
Speaker 1: I didn't have any problem at all with blowing the
Speaker 1: whistle until I saw what happened. The play in that
Speaker 1: game that really bothers me to this day is to
Speaker 1: this moment, is the is the play where you know
Speaker 1: Harry never steps out of bounds, and yet one of
Speaker 1: the officials thought he saw him step out of bounds.
Speaker 1: That's the one that just really bothers me. From your
Speaker 1: from your perspective, knowing what you know, I take it
Speaker 1: that will be a pretty significant downgrade for that official. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, the officials are evaluated and and that's one
Speaker 1: of those you know, they're evaluated on calls that they make,
Speaker 1: calls that they don't make, and then judgment calls, and
Speaker 1: that's that's a judgment call. And and obviously in that
Speaker 1: situation you have two officials. You have the down judge
Speaker 1: who's on the line of scrimmage, who's trailing the play,
Speaker 1: who's really responsible for the for the sideline, and then
Speaker 1: you have the side judge that is responsible for the
Speaker 1: goal line. They did look at each other, they got
Speaker 1: together and talked about it. And again, you just in
Speaker 1: that instance, when there is some question and now we're together,
Speaker 1: you just hope that they go down the path of
Speaker 1: neither one of us is clear that he stepped out,
Speaker 1: then let's go with that he didn't step out, and
Speaker 1: then if you did, replay can put it back. So
Speaker 1: you hope they get there. But unfortunately they didn't. And uh,
Speaker 1: and you know, and coach Belichick was out of challenges,
Speaker 1: and obviously that mistake could not be fixed. So that
Speaker 1: that was you know that it's very interesting the science
Speaker 1: of challenges. I'm definitely not in favor of increase and
Speaker 1: coaches a number of coaches challenges, but I think his
Speaker 1: first challenge was made just because, uh, you know, the
Speaker 1: offense was sputtering so much, and he was trying to
Speaker 1: give them some little edge, you know, trying to take
Speaker 1: any should and so that's why I used it. But
Speaker 1: I would bet if their offense was humming along like
Speaker 1: a typical Patriots offense. Yeah, and so therefore he would
Speaker 1: have had that challenge left in the second half that
Speaker 1: actually would have meant four points because they would have
Speaker 1: scored a touchdown instead of kicking a field goal. And
Speaker 1: you know, the one other thing about that, Dean, It's
Speaker 1: very interesting is that if you look at the play
Speaker 1: by play, and I don't remember it exactly, but the
Speaker 1: Patriots also would have saved about two minutes, which is
Speaker 1: time they definitely needed later on because they would have
Speaker 1: scored a touchdown with whatever it was like, eleven minutes
Speaker 1: to go or twelve minutes to go, rather than kick
Speaker 1: the field goal with ten minutes to go and give
Speaker 1: the ball back to the Chiefs. That was two minutes
Speaker 1: that they definitely could have used later and later in
Speaker 1: the in the quarter, they still would have been behind.
Speaker 1: But hey, you know, look, I'm not a big fan
Speaker 1: of It's like when I write my column on Monday,
Speaker 1: if there's a mega controversy that has to be addressed,
Speaker 1: I'll address it. But like most most of these things
Speaker 1: that are little tempests in individual markets, I don't really
Speaker 1: write about them that much because, quite honestly, I just
Speaker 1: unless unless it is captured the country, I just don't
Speaker 1: think that people want to dwell on officiating. And and
Speaker 1: I just you don't watch a game because you want
Speaker 1: to be reading about officiating. As I say, unless it
Speaker 1: is a mega call that uh, that everybody is talking
Speaker 1: about on Monday morning, I just I just don't really
Speaker 1: write about it very much. I just don't think it's
Speaker 1: why people tune in at one o'clock on Sunday afternoon. No,
Speaker 1: I agree. And it's funny because when I was at
Speaker 1: the League office, and this is every head of officiating
Speaker 1: has felt the same way, and I know al feels
Speaker 1: the same way. Is that you'd you'd rather have that
Speaker 1: controversy in a in an early window game that is
Speaker 1: going out to five percent of the country, then on
Speaker 1: Sunday night, or or in that that Kansas City, New
Speaker 1: England game that that a hundred percent of the country
Speaker 1: of the country is watching, and that's that's just part
Speaker 1: of the reality of what we do. Yeah, well, Peter,
Speaker 1: I could talk to you all day. Hopefully you'll join
Speaker 1: us again, and thank you so much for taking the
Speaker 1: time today. I'm really happy to do so. Dean, thanks
Speaker 1: a lot for asking. Please call anytime it sounds good.
Speaker 1: Thanks Peter. All right, Thanks again to Peter. You can
Speaker 1: follow him on Twitter at Peter on to score King.
Speaker 1: We're gonna take a break when we come back. We're
Speaker 1: in top a little college football and what happened in
Speaker 1: the Cube this weekend? Next on good Calls. All right,
Speaker 1: we're back on good Calls, thanks again to our guest
Speaker 1: Peter King. We had a weekend of championship games. I thought,
Speaker 1: for the most part well officiated. There was, um, you
Speaker 1: know our game on Fox, the Big Ten Championship How
Speaker 1: State Wisconsin. There were a couple of plays. I think
Speaker 1: we missed a false start. It was a false start
Speaker 1: on the House State touchdown that I think, um, the
Speaker 1: officials should have called right. So that segues into our
Speaker 1: CFP the rankings. What do we think did they get
Speaker 1: it right? The four teams. Did they get it right?
Speaker 1: I think they got it right because he's like, we're
Speaker 1: the champs and until we're throw we're number one. We
Speaker 1: don't anybody on our schedule. We played cupcakes all year.
Speaker 1: The a c C is awful. Miami. I'm a Miami fan,
Speaker 1: and I think the a c C is awful. I
Speaker 1: I like that though. If you if you don't lose,
Speaker 1: you're still the champion. You should you should be. I
Speaker 1: think I want to work down. I want to work
Speaker 1: from four. They got four right, Okay, Oklahoma Oklahoma one
Speaker 1: won the Big twelveth championship. I think Utah losing open
Speaker 1: the door up for Oklahoma and Georgia loss, so Georgia
Speaker 1: backs out. Georgia was four, Oklahoma moves up to four.
Speaker 1: I think they got that right. I think Clemson is
Speaker 1: right where they should be. Clemson is three. Okay, they
Speaker 1: haven't lost or undefeated. You can't knock them out of
Speaker 1: the top four, but they're number three. And I think
Speaker 1: the real issue becomes a House State and l s U.
Speaker 1: And the bottom line is look going into the week,
Speaker 1: Ohio State was ahead of l s U. And quite frankly,
Speaker 1: it comes down to Ohio State having one bad quarter
Speaker 1: against Wisconsin where they went down fourteen nothing and l
Speaker 1: s U smoking Georgia. And I think that's uti because
Speaker 1: when you look at their resumes, they're very similar. Um,
Speaker 1: they've played. You know, when you look at Ohio State
Speaker 1: has beaten, has beaten five teams in the in the
Speaker 1: cf in the CFP rankings, I think, um, you know
Speaker 1: l s U has beaten four teams in the rankings
Speaker 1: and uh, and you look at their strength of schedule,
Speaker 1: very similar. But I think it came down the one
Speaker 1: bad quarter for how State. I think that's what pushed
Speaker 1: l s U into the top spot. No, no response
Speaker 1: to that anybody. I totally agree with you. I think
Speaker 1: they got it right, but I think it was it
Speaker 1: was pretty easy for him. They didn't make the games.
Speaker 1: Kind of think about it, seems like a real lack
Speaker 1: of parity though. I agree, and you think about but
Speaker 1: the difference between one and two again is huge. How
Speaker 1: States going into that game against Clemson as a dog.
Speaker 1: They're an underdog going into that game. When you look
Speaker 1: at that difference, would you rather be playing Clemson or
Speaker 1: would you rather be playing Oklahoma? That's that's big. So
Speaker 1: we'll sing yeah, I think it's great. You're gonna have
Speaker 1: two teams potentially in the final that are both undefeated,
Speaker 1: and one of the teams that was undefeated going in,
Speaker 1: we'll we'll lose and and then so that you'll have
Speaker 1: the outright champion on anything else. But that leads us
Speaker 1: leads me to the next question. If we had the
Speaker 1: BCS still, which of those three teams you leave out?
Speaker 1: Obviously you say Clemson, but they're the can go let's
Speaker 1: go scratch because it's not no, that's that's l s
Speaker 1: U in the House state. They're right. Now. Luckily we
Speaker 1: don't have to deal with that, and they don't have
Speaker 1: to deal with that, all right, So let's get into
Speaker 1: some stuff from the Cube. Michael Strand was on fire
Speaker 1: and the Cube like the forty Niners Saints game, and
Speaker 1: they they do so they pick I think it's like whatever,
Speaker 1: the Super six, whatever they do. The pregame show, guys
Speaker 1: pick um have picks and stray and pick the Niners.
Speaker 1: And if if the Niners won, he was going to
Speaker 1: move into first place. So he was fired up. He
Speaker 1: was upset about a defensive hole that was called on
Speaker 1: Richard Sherman that gave that gave the Saints a first down. Um,
Speaker 1: but he wasn't up at about the no p I
Speaker 1: on the fake punt, that's for sure. But he was
Speaker 1: fired up. But we got it. Got me thinking, you know,
Speaker 1: we I've been officiating my entag career and inficiating you
Speaker 1: can't I don't bet. I don't bet on games. You know,
Speaker 1: I've never done that. It's just not it's just not allowed.
Speaker 1: So what we what we did was we like to
Speaker 1: just pick games in the in the cube. And so
Speaker 1: we came up with this concept of hypothetical bets hypothetical week.
Speaker 1: So so we're doing we're coming up. Joe has already
Speaker 1: he's he owns the domain name for hypothetical bookie dot
Speaker 1: com and this is this is the place you go
Speaker 1: for all your hypothetical betting needs and and so these
Speaker 1: are hypothetical bets. We think there's something there and I
Speaker 1: think we're gonna do it. We own the domain name. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, we maybe you get credits for prizes and things.
Speaker 1: But Travis had his hypothetical lock of the week. He
Speaker 1: was all over the Texans as his hypothetical lock of
Speaker 1: the week. I went a little fanboy on it because
Speaker 1: my my wife plays fantasy football, and she's like moving
Speaker 1: into second against the people she works with at NFL Network,
Speaker 1: And so I got excited and I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: Watson's or quarterback. They're gonna crush Denver. They're eight point
Speaker 1: eight and a half point favorites. I was like, they
Speaker 1: can get this, and they at one point and Travis,
Speaker 1: ever the optimist, It's like, no, they could come back,
Speaker 1: they can come back. I was like, so, so Travis
Speaker 1: is down, uh hypothetical dollars. But anyway, so I just
Speaker 1: thought that was hilarious. Travis tried half Baked Ben and
Speaker 1: Jerry's sponsor opportunity. What do you think I liked it?
Speaker 1: I I didn't love it like you. I know, I'm
Speaker 1: not a huge like cookie dough fan of my ice
Speaker 1: cream because it just gets a little bit too too hard.
Speaker 1: But I did love I did love the brownie. The brownie, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I love the brownie. I didn't leave it out for
Speaker 1: seven minutes. Not a fan of cookie dough ice cream? Yeah,
Speaker 1: like whatever, what else you're not a fan of? Like
Speaker 1: there's probably like I like both, but I'm not huge unicorns.
Speaker 1: Like what I got a daughter I love unicorns. All right,
Speaker 1: all right, let's give us give everything but the shot.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about that. Let's try to fit in a
Speaker 1: little brain of Blandino. All right, here we go. I'm
Speaker 1: pretty sure there are times where ways is just like
Speaker 1: screw this dude, Has that ever happened to you? Oh
Speaker 1: my god. There's sometimes where it's like where are you
Speaker 1: taking me? Like I'm sitting there, like this is supposed
Speaker 1: to be the cutting edge of technology. They're supposed to
Speaker 1: get us around traffic. Everyone sposed it's literally sometimes I'm
Speaker 1: like literally, I'm like, they're there. They're messing with me
Speaker 1: right now, like they are literally somebody's in there going
Speaker 1: he's not going to get where he needs to get
Speaker 1: multiply like check the address multiple times, multiple times, because
Speaker 1: like there's no way it's taken me in D hundred
Speaker 1: like some literally like there's times where and then it
Speaker 1: doesn't update right away and I'm like I have to
Speaker 1: I know, I have to make a turn here, and
Speaker 1: it's like telling the way that definitely sometimes the I
Speaker 1: literally think they're just messing with people. One time I
Speaker 1: was out with with this girl is like a second date,
Speaker 1: and we were going somewhere and it took us through
Speaker 1: like canyons through this crazy and she was like, I'm
Speaker 1: getting sick. YEA was messing with you. You tried to
Speaker 1: tell me like, oh, let's go this way and said
Speaker 1: I'm like no, no, I always fall aways. And then
Speaker 1: it was it was a like this guy's not getting
Speaker 1: have a confession. I've never used ways that doesn't shock jeez.
Speaker 1: What are you still on the What do you got
Speaker 1: a garment? I just put my directions in my phone
Speaker 1: and I go that compass. He prints it off. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's got the print out next to him. It's tough
Speaker 1: when you have a cloudy now you can't see the stars.
Speaker 1: And that is for the next episode on SWG with
Speaker 1: Travis Hansen. All right, that's a Good Call with Dean Blandino.
Speaker 1: Please follow me on Twitter at Dean Blandino and Instagram
Speaker 1: at Dean doc blending Know follow the show on Instagram
Speaker 1: and Twitter, app rules podcast, and be sure to rate
Speaker 1: our podcast on the I heart Radio app and on
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts. Good Calls with Dean Blandino is a production
Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio,
Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows