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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace answers. Blood all over the

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Speaker 1: places like our post What happened to Kay Thomason? What

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Speaker 1: happened to Kate Thomason? The question still lingers. Months have

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Speaker 1: passed and the case remains unsolved. Brutally murdered in our

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Speaker 1: own home. I visited the crime scene and from the

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Speaker 1: outside looking in, it looks like a post card. A

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Speaker 1: beautiful two storied home with the giant lighting fixture hanging

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Speaker 1: down in the middle, A perfectly kept front and backyard,

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Speaker 1: beautiful furnishings in the home. In the back you see

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Speaker 1: dish for the pet, the family pet. Everything's perfect except

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Speaker 1: for the dead body. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. With me an all

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Speaker 1: star panel. Daryl Cohen, former prosecutor, now renowned defense attorney

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Speaker 1: in the Atlanta jurisdiction, well known medical examiner for the

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Speaker 1: State of Florida, doctor Tim Gallagher joining me. Laura Petler,

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Speaker 1: crime scene analyst, and PI private investigator. Right now to

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Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investigative reporter John Limley. Start at

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Speaker 1: the beginning. Nancy Kate Thomason had lived in the Derby

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Speaker 1: Hills subdivision since before Sandy Springs was even a city

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Speaker 1: up until two thousand and five. Two thousand and six,

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Speaker 1: the community was just an unincorporated part of Atlanta's Fulton County.

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Speaker 1: Kay's house sits up on a ridge overlooking a cul

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Speaker 1: de sac. It's at the very end of a long

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Speaker 1: wooded street named Old Woodbine Road. Derby Hills is in

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Speaker 1: an upscale, older neighborhood, one that's highly sought after, especially

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Speaker 1: by young families. It's a beautiful area, but it's also

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Speaker 1: surrounded by some really great schools. Kay lived alone, not

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Speaker 1: just in the house, but in the city. For the

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Speaker 1: most part. She did have some family members, but her

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Speaker 1: children and her ex husband lived out of town. Living alone, though,

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Speaker 1: was not something that seemed to bother Kay one bit.

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Speaker 1: For one thing, she was constantly busy with lots of

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Speaker 1: volunteer work. She worked in her garden. In fact, it

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Speaker 1: was one of those family members in town that became

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Speaker 1: concerned when they heard that Kay had not made it

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Speaker 1: to an appointment that day. This is June twenty seventh.

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Speaker 1: Kay was one of those people, one of those dependable

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Speaker 1: people that never missed an event, a meeting, an appointment,

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Speaker 1: anything that was on her calendar. Take a listen to

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Speaker 1: our friend Joe Hinky at eleven Alive. A relative came

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Speaker 1: to check on Kay Thomason yesterday evening after she missed

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Speaker 1: an appointment, and that's when she was found dead inside

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Speaker 1: of her home on the top of this hill. This afternoon,

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Speaker 1: nearly twenty four hours after the investigation began, Sandy Springs

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Speaker 1: police could be seen removing evidence from the scene of

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Speaker 1: the homicide. Seventy one year old Kay Thomason was killed

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Speaker 1: inside her home. We're looking into phone records, we're talking

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Speaker 1: to neighbors, and we're talking to family members as well.

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Speaker 1: Sergeant Samuel Warsham with the Sandy Springs Police Department said

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Speaker 1: a relative found Thomason around seven Wednesday night, and the

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Speaker 1: medical examiner is still determining how she died. Her family

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Speaker 1: told police Thomason's black twenty twelve Kia Sorrento with Georgia

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Speaker 1: take Wu one one six two was missing when they

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Speaker 1: found her. Is that the key to Kay's murder in

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Speaker 1: her own home in a very very quiet Upskill neighborhood,

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Speaker 1: nobody heard a thing articulosten to Sergeant sam Worsham, the

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Speaker 1: PIO at Sandy Springs PD. Around seven pm last night,

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Speaker 1: we were notified of a homicide here on Old Woodbine Road.

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Speaker 1: Our officers responded to the location. They were able to

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Speaker 1: locate the victim, Miss kay Thomason, and her home. At

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Speaker 1: this time, we are looking for her vehicle. It's missing

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Speaker 1: from the location. It's a two thousand and twelve Kia Sorrento.

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Speaker 1: It's black in color and has Georgia tag p WU

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Speaker 1: one one six two. If anyone has any information about

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Speaker 1: the location of this vehicle, please call Sandy Springs Police,

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Speaker 1: where you can call crimes offers as well. Right now,

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Speaker 1: we are offering a ten thousand dollars reward for the

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Speaker 1: arrest and conviction of anyone involved in this crime. If

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Speaker 1: anyone has information, please call Sandy Springs Police immediately. Who

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Speaker 1: notified the police department? A family member The victim miss

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Speaker 1: an appointment. A family member came to check and located

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Speaker 1: the victim at their home and she called novel. How

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Speaker 1: long had she been laying there? What effect will that

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Speaker 1: have on her autopsy? Straight out to Medicalsamera for the

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Speaker 1: State of Florida, Doctor Tim Gallagher. Doctor Gallagher, it's a

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Speaker 1: real honor to have you with us when ours tick by.

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Speaker 1: How does that affect the accuracy of the autopsy and

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Speaker 1: the ability to determine cod cause of death. The time

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Speaker 1: that passes by does affect some of the evidence that

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Speaker 1: you may be able to collect from the body. For instance,

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Speaker 1: DNA evidence will start to degrade, trace evidence will start

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Speaker 1: to disappear here and by start to become lost. But

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Speaker 1: actually finding the cause of death during the autopsy isn't

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Speaker 1: really affected by time as much as people would like

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Speaker 1: to think. A stab wounds will always be their bullet

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Speaker 1: wounds will always be there, and they could be bound

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Speaker 1: within the bone and within the tissue that is last

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Speaker 1: to decompose. You know, I'm thinking about this woman, Kay Thomason,

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Speaker 1: and if you could just see how perfectly she kept

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Speaker 1: her home. Now, one thing I noticed when I was

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Speaker 1: looking at the crime scene was that you go up,

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Speaker 1: as John Lumley with Crime Online was reporting, a very

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Speaker 1: gradual slope up to her home. The driveway to the

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Speaker 1: home is on the right, and between you've got the

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Speaker 1: home to the right, the driveway, then an expanse of lawn.

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Speaker 1: Then you have a not ramshackle, but an old wooden fence.

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Speaker 1: It's about uh five to six feet tall, and it's

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Speaker 1: overgrown with foliage. On the other side of that fence

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Speaker 1: woods forest. Then after you go down through the forest,

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Speaker 1: through the woods, you come out on a very very

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Speaker 1: busy street, Peachtree Dunwoodie Road. And the reason it's so

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Speaker 1: busy is that on one end you have the biggest

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Speaker 1: shopping centers and the most expensive shopping malls in the

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Speaker 1: state of Georgia, Linux and Phipps, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: high end restaurants. And then to the right you go

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Speaker 1: over hill and there are some of the most prestigious

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Speaker 1: hospitals in the state of Georgia. You've got Scottish Right

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Speaker 1: Children's Hospital, North Side Hospital, Saint Joseph's Hospital. So that

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Speaker 1: particular run of street is highly traveled. Anybody that knew

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Speaker 1: to go through those woods and get to that fence

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Speaker 1: could get straight in her home, and her home was

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Speaker 1: the first house you get to to Daryl Cohen, a

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Speaker 1: former prosecutor turned defense attorney. Darryl As a prosecutor, you

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Speaker 1: and I worked in the same office. You know every

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Speaker 1: inch of Fulton County like the back of your hand,

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Speaker 1: because when you are looking at everywhere I go. The

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Speaker 1: children now say it. They go, oh, I bet you

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Speaker 1: prosecuted a murderer in here. They go, Yes, I did

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Speaker 1: you know? It could be mansions, It could be a

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Speaker 1: crack house, It could be a regular tree lined neighborhood.

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Speaker 1: It could be an apartment complex. If you're a prosecutor,

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Speaker 1: you've been there, because you go to the crime scene,

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Speaker 1: you look at it yourself to analyze it before trial.

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Speaker 1: So I'm sure you know exactly where this is. It's

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Speaker 1: a very expensive enclave going down Peachtree Dunwoodie toward the hospitals,

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Speaker 1: just around the Windsor Parkway intersection. You know what I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about. That ain't shabby, Daryl, No, I know exactly

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Speaker 1: what you're talking about. In the typical residential neighborhood that

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Speaker 1: this sort of crime does not happen, but unfortunately it did,

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Speaker 1: and it's something very close to the hospital, as you mentioned.

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Speaker 1: We call them pill Hill because of all of the

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Speaker 1: hospitals that they're there and the very high red neighborhood

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Speaker 1: for people just don't see this sort of crime happen,

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Speaker 1: never happens, but that it did. Crime Stories with Nancy

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Speaker 1: Grace this morning, we have a brief update on the

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Speaker 1: investigation into the homicide that occurred on wid Buying Road

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Speaker 1: a little over a week ago here in Sandy Springs.

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Speaker 1: We also have some information that the family would like

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Speaker 1: to share this morning with the public. So this morning,

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Speaker 1: the Sandy Springs Police Department would like to announce that

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Speaker 1: the reward in this case is now at one hundred

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars, and we hope that that one hundred thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars reward will give us a little more interest in

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Speaker 1: the case and provide someone with some more incentive to

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Speaker 1: give more leads all this case for investigators to follow up.

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Speaker 1: Good morning. My name is Keith Sigon Simon. Still the

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Speaker 1: case remains unsolved. Let's take a listen to that nine

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Speaker 1: one one call one more time. You think carriers blood

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Speaker 1: all over the places like our presure bulking the post.

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Speaker 1: You're hearing the nine one one call and earlier Sinday

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Speaker 1: Springs Deputy Chief of Police Keith signs the reward now

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Speaker 1: raised to one hundred thousand dollars, but still no takers.

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Speaker 1: To Laura Petlar, crime scene analyst and private eye, Laura,

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Speaker 1: that's very unusual for a he wore to climb to

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Speaker 1: one hundred thousand dollars and no takers. It is Nancy.

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Speaker 1: The situation with this particular cases that the offender is

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Speaker 1: going to be a person who could possibly brag about

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Speaker 1: this type of an offense. But he also if he's

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Speaker 1: more on the anger side of the house of these

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Speaker 1: kind of murders, he won't brag about it, and therefore

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Speaker 1: he's keeping his secret and he's not telling people what

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Speaker 1: he did, and therefore, you know, it could be a

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Speaker 1: smaller pool of people who would come forward. The other

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Speaker 1: issue is is that a lot of times these type

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Speaker 1: offenders have a tremendous amount of domestic violence and assault

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Speaker 1: against women history and their past. And if that's the case,

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Speaker 1: he could be scaring other women with this horror story,

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Speaker 1: and if that's what's happening, they're not going to come

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Speaker 1: forward and to tell what they know about him. To

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Speaker 1: tell themly climb online dot com investigative reporter, tell me

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Speaker 1: about the actual murder. What happened to Kay. A lot

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Speaker 1: of what we have learned and investigators have learned, begins

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Speaker 1: with this eerie surveillance video. It was a few hours

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Speaker 1: into the recording from the hours before her body was

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Speaker 1: discovered by her family members. Investigators had sat there and

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Speaker 1: combed through the video, and they were beginning to think

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Speaker 1: they weren't going to see anything. Then with a time

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Speaker 1: stamp in the early wee hours of the morning, they

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Speaker 1: begin to see a little flutter. Over to the left

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Speaker 1: side of the driveway. There's a camera of Kay's surveillance

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Speaker 1: system pointed down that long driveway, and over to the left,

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Speaker 1: in the shadow of a tree, you can begin to

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Speaker 1: see a little bit of a flutter. And then wait, wait, wait, wait,

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Speaker 1: John Lennie Hall, do let me understand this. Where is

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Speaker 1: a surveillance camera on the home? I think I recalled

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Speaker 1: saying it is? It is actually right on the front

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Speaker 1: of the house, pointed down the driveway. So when you're

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Speaker 1: on the street looking at the house, is it on

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Speaker 1: the left or the right? It's really slightly to the right,

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Speaker 1: but really right dead center in the home. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: as it is looking now, we're let's pretend on the

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Speaker 1: front steps of the home. Okay, we're no longer looking

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Speaker 1: at the home. We're on the front steps looking out

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Speaker 1: away from the home. The man comes from where as

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Speaker 1: you're looking down that driveway, he comes from the left

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Speaker 1: side of the driveway, out of the woods, straight out

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Speaker 1: of those woods where that fence is, and I looked

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Speaker 1: for a gate in the fence, but there is a

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Speaker 1: break in the fence where any you could step through

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Speaker 1: if you wanted to. It's not but you could do it.

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Speaker 1: So that's where the purp comes from. Hmm. Interesting, Let

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Speaker 1: me moull on that. Go ahead, Tom, Sure, As I said,

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Speaker 1: you see that flutter over in the shadow of a tree,

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Speaker 1: and probably on purpose, trying to find a shadow, and

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Speaker 1: then slowly emerges and begins really for lack of a

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Speaker 1: better word, creeping up the driveway medium to a little

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Speaker 1: bit on the tall side height something holding something in

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Speaker 1: his hands. It's a what appears to be a man,

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Speaker 1: and the video catches him for just I would say,

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Speaker 1: maybe seven or eight seconds before he goes out of

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Speaker 1: the camera range. And that's the end of any video

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Speaker 1: that even shows him. Even though there is a camera

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Speaker 1: on the back of the house, it never picks him up.

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Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, former prosecutor, current defense attorney in the Atlanta area.

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Speaker 1: Why is it that I can see a rock a rock,

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Speaker 1: a rock I can hold in my hand on the moon,

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Speaker 1: but I can't make this guy's face out much less

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Speaker 1: what he's holding in his hand. I'm so irritated. I mean, target,

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Speaker 1: for Pete's sake. Have you seen how clear their surveillance

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Speaker 1: video is. I mean it's awesome. I'll never forget watching

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Speaker 1: Top Mom Casey Anthony as she was using a forged

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Speaker 1: check to buy Beard a push up bras for Pete's

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Speaker 1: sake while her daughter was missing. I mean, I can

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Speaker 1: make out every tooth in her mouth, every bleached white

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Speaker 1: tooth she's got. So I don't get it, Daryl. Not

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Speaker 1: only is this surveillance let me just say crap, but

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Speaker 1: at least I've got something. I got something. I got

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Speaker 1: A man coming from those woods up into her home.

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Speaker 1: Can't make out his face, can't make out what he's carrying.

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Speaker 1: Why is that? Darryl? Well, it seems to me that

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Speaker 1: these surveillance cameras that he had were of low quality.

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Speaker 1: They were not commercial quality. They will probably sold to

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Speaker 1: her some time ago by a company that said you

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Speaker 1: will now have surveillance cameras. Well. That's great that she

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Speaker 1: has a surveillance camera, but it has to show detail,

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Speaker 1: it has to show more than what it showed it.

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Speaker 1: This is typical of sometimes we pay for something and

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Speaker 1: we get less. All right, fine, blame the victim back

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Speaker 1: to you, John Limley. You know, I like what you

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Speaker 1: told me because you teld me about the surveillance video

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Speaker 1: and the image and the man where he came from.

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Speaker 1: That's all relevant, but objection unresponsive to the question I

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Speaker 1: ask you about the murder. How was she killed? Was

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Speaker 1: she strangled? Was she hit with the firepok? Was she raped?

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Speaker 1: Was anything stolen? Helped me out, lemly sure? She was

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Speaker 1: actually stabbed in the back of the neck. She had

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Speaker 1: been tied up. She had been beaten and whoa, whoa,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, I didn't know she was tied up. Yes,

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Speaker 1: oh oh, so she struggled and he had to subdue her.

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Speaker 1: She's tied up, you said, stabbed in the back of neck?

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Speaker 1: What else? She had been beaten and had been left

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Speaker 1: in a tub filled with water. It was a horrific scene.

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Speaker 1: Was she clothed? She was clothed in a tub full

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Speaker 1: of water, beaten, stabbed in the back of the neck

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Speaker 1: and left in a tub of water. Okay, I had

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Speaker 1: to think that through. I have dedicated my life to

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Speaker 1: crime victims, to giving a voice to those who can

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Speaker 1: no longer speak for themselves elves, and that is why

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Speaker 1: I work with Oxygen to create a nie show. Injustice

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Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, we investigate cases that I believe never

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Speaker 1: got it right, from wrongly accused to botched investigations, to

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Speaker 1: unclear motives to unjust sentences. I don't just cover cases,

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Speaker 1: I solve them. I put my heart and soul in it.

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Speaker 1: Dig deep, look at the background, at the crime scene,

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Speaker 1: at the families, at the witnesses. I look at every

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Speaker 1: tiny detail because what matters to me is justice. Join

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Speaker 1: us in our search for the truth. Injustice with Nancy

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Speaker 1: Grace watch now on demand and every Saturday at six

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Speaker 1: five Central only on Oxygen, the True Network for crime,

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Kay Thomason brutally murdered in

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Speaker 1: her own home. Months have passed and the case remains unsolved.

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Speaker 1: What happened to Kate Thomason? Doctor Tim Gallagher is with me,

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Speaker 1: Thank goodness, the medical examiner for the State of Florida.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he's got so many accolades behind his name

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Speaker 1: would run out of time. Sorry, Gallagher, but I got

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Speaker 1: to talk about Kay Thomason right now, and not all

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Speaker 1: of your many many accomplishments up, doctor Gallagher. Wow, he

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Speaker 1: killed her tried to kill her three times, over killed

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Speaker 1: her twice, over stabbed her in the back of the neck,

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Speaker 1: beat her, and apparently I was trying to drown her

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Speaker 1: at the same time. Okay, what I don't even know

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Speaker 1: where to start, doctor Gallagher. Oh, how the medical examiners?

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Speaker 1: Had you seen me pull up in my beat up Ponda?

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Speaker 1: Because I would have to go through every single line

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Speaker 1: of the autopsy report. Mostly that's your fault because you

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Speaker 1: speak in medical ease that nobody understands except another doctor

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Speaker 1: or maybe a scientist. But talk to me in regular people,

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Speaker 1: talk about what you're learning. What does this mean to

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Speaker 1: you in your medical examiner's mind. Well, there's a couple

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Speaker 1: of things that come out to mind. A number one,

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Speaker 1: you're right, I mean he did try to kill in

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Speaker 1: several different types of ways, which kind of tells me

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Speaker 1: he may have been a disorganized a disorganized mindset, meaning

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Speaker 1: this crime may have been just a crime of opportunity.

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Speaker 1: Oh wait a minute, Wait a minute, wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: you're throwing a detective term. Mummy. There are and I

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Speaker 1: learned this from serial killers. There's organized killers and there's

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Speaker 1: disorganized killers. We're not just saying they're messy Okay, that

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Speaker 1: is actually a term applied to killers. When you say

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Speaker 1: he was a disorganized killer, that is very significant, explained

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Speaker 1: doctor Gallagher. You're right, there are two types of There

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Speaker 1: are several types of killers. One as an organized killer.

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Speaker 1: He's the type of person who plans every facet of

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Speaker 1: the crime right up until the crime is committed. They

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Speaker 1: often make long list of things that they need to

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Speaker 1: do before the crime, and create a shopping list of

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Speaker 1: things to buy before the crime, and even after the

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Speaker 1: crime how to dispose of the body. So their mind

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Speaker 1: goes from step one to step two to step three

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Speaker 1: in a very organized fashion. A disorganized a type killer

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Speaker 1: does not have that faculty about them, does not have

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Speaker 1: that mindset, and we'll kind of do things ad hoc

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Speaker 1: or as needed during the commission of the crime. Wow.

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Speaker 1: I like the way you said that, Gallagher. So you're

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Speaker 1: not just skin and bones. You are very well versed

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Speaker 1: in the art of crime. In criminology, a disorganized offender

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Speaker 1: is actually a classification. The distinction between organized and disorganized

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Speaker 1: was first drawn by a renowned American criminologist, Roy Hazelwood.

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Speaker 1: The disorganized offender has been stereotyped as low average or

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Speaker 1: below at low average intelligence. Now I disagree with Hazelwood

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Speaker 1: on that because I think anyone, even of high intellect,

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Speaker 1: can kill without a real, organized, anal obsessive plan. Laura Petler,

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Speaker 1: you're the crime scene analyst, weigh in on that. Oh,

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Speaker 1: you're right, Nancy. From the standpoint of forensic criminology, there

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Speaker 1: are dichotomies, There are different types of killers. But however,

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Speaker 1: as a forendic criminologist, what we like to stay away

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Speaker 1: from is really categorizing a crime scene as one or

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Speaker 1: the other, because most of the time we see a

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Speaker 1: mixed level of organization, as we do here. This appears

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Speaker 1: to be very targeted. It appears to be very purposeful

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Speaker 1: and planned. It's possible that the weapon was brought to

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Speaker 1: the scene by the offender and potentially carried away by

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Speaker 1: the offender. In that I mean it looked to me

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Speaker 1: like a sack that he was carrying, and the doorknob

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Speaker 1: is missing from the crime scene. The body's also in water.

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Speaker 1: He used the pummeling, which we often see in power

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Speaker 1: based offenders to subdue the victim. And you know, the

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Speaker 1: stab wound is the cause of death. And so for me,

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Speaker 1: as a friensic criminologist. It's more about what was the

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Speaker 1: purpose of this crime. The purpose of the crime was

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Speaker 1: potentially sexual assault and robbery, and in order for him

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Speaker 1: to do that, he planned to at least go over there,

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Speaker 1: like you said, and I think you're exactly right. You know,

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Speaker 1: going through those woods was the perfect opportunity for cover.

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Speaker 1: And then once he gets in there, he had to

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Speaker 1: subdue her somehow. They reported that the crime scene was

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Speaker 1: very violent, that she struggled, she fought back, she fought

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Speaker 1: for her life, and that she was possibly sexually assaulted.

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Speaker 1: But the scene is the reflection of his personality, and

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Speaker 1: his personality is showing us that he's angry. He wants

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Speaker 1: to be in control, he wants power over the victim.

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Speaker 1: And then he knows something about CSI, you know, the

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Speaker 1: greatest CSI effect and how this all plays a role

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Speaker 1: in court, and he puts her in the bathtub to

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Speaker 1: try to destroy any evidence. No, I was just coming

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Speaker 1: to you on that, doctor Tim Gallagher. Doctor Gallagher, I

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Speaker 1: was suspicious. Did he put her in the tub to

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Speaker 1: try to drown her, make sure she was dead? Did

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Speaker 1: he put her in the tub to try to get

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Speaker 1: rid of trace evidence? There is evidence that she may

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Speaker 1: have been sexually assaulted. What I don't get either she

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Speaker 1: was or she wasn't, Doctor Gallagher. I mean, how hard

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Speaker 1: does it figure out if there is sperm on the

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Speaker 1: body or in the body, or in her mouth or

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Speaker 1: in her hair on her face, was she partially closed,

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Speaker 1: has her clothes been in disarray or ripped or torn?

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Speaker 1: I mean, how can you say may have been sex assaulted? Well,

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Speaker 1: that's always the question. If there was a semen or

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Speaker 1: sperm or biological material on the body after the body

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Speaker 1: was placed in the water, then that may have been

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Speaker 1: degraded or even totally lost. If there is that type

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Speaker 1: of material within the body. Using a sexual assault kit,

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Speaker 1: samples are taken from the mouth, samples are taken from

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Speaker 1: the female areas and even the rectum. Those would be

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Speaker 1: preserved in water actually, and then those would good result,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Gallagher. We're not afraid to say vagina. It's not

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Speaker 1: a dirty word, you know, Spit it out there so

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Speaker 1: you can look in the rectum area, the vagina, the

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Speaker 1: vaginal area. Well, really, when you're looking at a sex attack,

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Speaker 1: doctor Gallagher, especially of this nature of a disorganized killer,

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Speaker 1: you could find sperm anywhere on the body. On the stomach,

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Speaker 1: on the back, on the face, on the mouth, it's

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Speaker 1: just anywhere. I'm also very interested in her clothing, Doctor Gallagher.

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Speaker 1: Now explain to me, doctor Gallagher, when the body gets

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Speaker 1: to the Medical Examiner's office of the Mork, how do

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Speaker 1: you process those clothes? Now, I know these clothes are

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Speaker 1: soaking wet, But tell me what do you do if

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Speaker 1: you're looking for sperm or DNA of any type and

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Speaker 1: you want to look at those clothes? How do you

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Speaker 1: do it if the clothes are wet? Or do they

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Speaker 1: do it? They just say, oh, well, it's a lost cause.

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Speaker 1: I know the clothing is a very important part of

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Speaker 1: the process, and there are many techniques that we use.

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Speaker 1: The first technique we would use would be to simply

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Speaker 1: dry the clothing and then any DNA material would be

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Speaker 1: then embedded into whoa, whoa, wait wait a minute, wait

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Speaker 1: a minute, what do you just throw it in the dryer?

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Speaker 1: How do you dry it's there's got to be a

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Speaker 1: special way. There is There is There is a special

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Speaker 1: drying room where the humidity is kept very low. There

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Speaker 1: is no wind or breeze associated with that, and then

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Speaker 1: the clothes are dried in a very humid free environment.

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Speaker 1: But you don't. You don't actually blow them with like

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Speaker 1: any kind of a vent or a dryer, do you,

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Speaker 1: because wouldn't that get rid of DNA potentially like hair

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Speaker 1: five hair or fibers, clothing fibers. Right. Yeah, there is

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Speaker 1: no breeze. It's a closed room and just the humidity

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Speaker 1: is kept very low. There's no air circulation or very

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Speaker 1: little air sir. Yeah, I was just trying to imagine

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Speaker 1: that when you said we dry them, I'm like, throw

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Speaker 1: it in a dryer. I guess you couldn't do that

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Speaker 1: because that could somehow damage evidence as well. So you

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Speaker 1: just let it dry and then what do you do?

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Speaker 1: Just just to reiterate, every aspect of the clothing process

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Speaker 1: is with the intent that the evidence be preserved. So

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Speaker 1: there's not going to be any violent or ungentle handling

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Speaker 1: of the clothing crime stories. With Nancy Grace. What happened

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Speaker 1: to Kate Thomason, the question still lingers. I got a

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Speaker 1: question for Laura Petler crime saying, Aliston private investigator, you're

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Speaker 1: an m fact expert. What can you tell me about

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Speaker 1: how that could be used? So I was thinking about

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Speaker 1: that as doctor Gallants a Beer was talking about the clothing.

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Speaker 1: So once the clothing is dried, the other thing that's

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Speaker 1: very common in the drawing process is to is to

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Speaker 1: like put the clothing over white sheets or trays like

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00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 1: so if you're laying them flat or you're hanging them up,

427
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 1: any of the trace evidence would fall onto those sheets.

428
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 1: Then once that process is done and any of that

429
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 1: traces collected, the MVAC is a wet vacuum. It's very

430
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 1: similar to a rug doctor with an upholstery attachment. And

431
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 1: I know that sounds strange, but really that's it's a

432
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 1: great way of understanding what it is. So it looks

433
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 1: like a shower head and you take the dry clothing

434
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 1: and you turn on the MVAC and it shoots water

435
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 1: just like a shower head down through the handle of

436
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 1: the MVAC. And then as you're pulling the handle across

437
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: the clothing, it also has a suction like a vacuum cleaner,

438
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 1: and so it's literally almost like a steam cleaner process

439
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 1: where it's pulling all that debris that could be touch DNA,

440
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 1: nuclear DNA, various types of biological material all out of

441
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 1: the clothing. And what's wonderful about it, Nancy, is instead

442
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 1: of just picking an area to swab for touch DNA,

443
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: say like on the shoulders if someone grabs somebody by

444
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 1: the shoulders or on the wrist. The MBAC is wonderful

445
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 1: because we can actually and back the entire garment and

446
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: collect all the material on the entire item of clothing.

447
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 1: We don't have to pick which would be most likely

448
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 1: where the offender grabbed the victim. Okay, hold on, wake up,

449
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 1: Darryl Cohen, Daryl Cohen, Way. I remember when I first

450
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 1: saw you in the courthouse. I found out, first of

451
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 1: all that your nickname was cool Breeze. I tried not

452
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 1: to judge you because of that. Then I heard the

453
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 1: rumor that you left the DA's office because I elected DA.

454
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 1: He was like your grandfather to me. Lewis Slayton told

455
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 1: you could either be a prosecutor full time or you

456
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: could be a male model, and you went with male model.

457
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 1: Now I don't know if that's true or not, but

458
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 1: wake up. Our tutorial on forensics is over. I'm going

459
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 1: to get back down to the nitty gritty, and then

460
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:47,959
Speaker 1: I want you to weigh in. I don't know how

461
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: you could represent somebody like this, Daryl Cohen, but somehow

462
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 1: you managed to cast the check. John Limley, question to you,

463
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 1: what did we learn from the body? The body, in

464
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 1: addition to what we've already mentioned, that she had been

465
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 1: beaten and tied up and stabbed in the back of

466
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 1: the neck. Investigators, and why does that just like trip

467
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: off your tongue like you're a nursing rum. Hickory Dickory

468
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 1: dock the master runs. I mean the way you say it,

469
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 1: she's tied up, she stabbed in the neck. I mean,

470
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 1: do you hear what you're saying, Lily? It does something.

471
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 1: Can you imagine being alone in a home and finding

472
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 1: out this freak is in there. I'm wondering if he

473
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 1: brought the knife or if he used a knife from

474
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 1: her kitchen. Sob I hate him and I don't even

475
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 1: know who he is. Go ahead. One of the things

476
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 1: that investigators noticed that night when they first saw the

477
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 1: body and then when the autopsy was taking place, is

478
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 1: that Kay had some defensive wounds on her. She had

479
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 1: put up a fight. She hadn't just taken this sitting

480
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 1: down or lying down. She was ready to fight back. Okay, So,

481
00:32:54,080 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, if you go to the saint, let's pretend no, no, no,

482
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 1: I'll go as a defense lawyer. I was gonna say,

483
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 1: pretend you were still in the DA's office. But if

484
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 1: you go to the scene as a defense lawyer, what

485
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 1: are you looking for. The thing i'm looking for is everything.

486
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 1: I'm looking to see if there's a knife taken, as

487
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 1: you mentioned, from the kitchen. Normally people will have knives

488
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 1: all together. I'm looking to see if there's any other

489
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 1: evidence that this pert may have made. And by the way,

490
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 1: let me point out, I think you guys are giving

491
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 1: this guy a lot more intelligence credit than he deserves.

492
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 1: I don't see this as an intelligent guy. I don't

493
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: know if this was a targeted murder and robbery or

494
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 1: if it was random. But obviously her house was the

495
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,959
Speaker 1: easiest house to get to. But I don't see him

496
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: as a bright guy. He is obviously disorganized. I don't either.

497
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 1: Didn't you hear me say I think he was a

498
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 1: disorganized killer. I don't think he's that bright. I think

499
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 1: he picked the first house he got taken. I don't

500
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 1: see him as intelligence. He may be disorganized, and they're

501
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 1: intelligent people are disorganized. I think that he was enraged.

502
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 1: Maybe he was looking for a lot more money. Or

503
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 1: jewelry than she may have had, and that's why he

504
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 1: tied her up, That's why he stabbed her in the back.

505
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 1: I don't think he put her in the tub to

506
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:15,360
Speaker 1: get rid of trace evidence or to get rid of

507
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:17,840
Speaker 1: any evidence. I think that was just another way of

508
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 1: showing his rage. So I go to the house. I'm

509
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 1: looking for everything. I'm looking for how he would have entered.

510
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 1: I'm looking for any possibility that there may have been

511
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 1: something there that he was looking for, that he might

512
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 1: have She had a yard man, maybe she had a

513
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 1: cleaning service that he may have been told by them.

514
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:44,240
Speaker 1: She's keeping this type of wonderful jewelry available. I'm looking

515
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 1: for every possibility, and then I throw it out, I

516
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 1: throw it in the mix, and then I say, no,

517
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:52,800
Speaker 1: this is not what's happened. This should be a treasure

518
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 1: trove of information, Daryl Cohen, because not far away at

519
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 1: all is her Kia Sorrento. Hello, were there not any

520
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 1: prints on that? I mean, that should be a massive

521
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 1: treasure of evidence. John lom me tell me about the car.

522
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 1: Where was it found? I assume that was her car?

523
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,240
Speaker 1: What can you tell me? Tell me everything? Well denied

524
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 1: that the family member discovered Kay's body there. The first

525
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,720
Speaker 1: thing they noticed when they drove up to Kay's house

526
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:29,320
Speaker 1: was that her suv was gone, a black twenty twelve

527
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: Kia Sorrento had a Georgia tag a trailer hitch And

528
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:38,840
Speaker 1: now the date of Kay's murder was Wednesday, June twenty seventh,

529
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 1: and it was three days later, on a Saturday, June thirtieth,

530
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,839
Speaker 1: that police did find that suv and it was just

531
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:50,839
Speaker 1: four or five miles away in the city of Shamblely, Georgia,

532
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 1: in the parking lot of an apartment complex. They don't

533
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:58,319
Speaker 1: have surveillance. The apartment complex doesn't have surveillance in this

534
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 1: day and age. I find that very hard to leave.

535
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 1: That would be hard to believe. But if it does,

536
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 1: police have not released that to the public. End to

537
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 1: the press, Kay did own some rental properties around Metro Atlanta. However,

538
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 1: this was not one of them. This appeared just to

539
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 1: be a convenient dump site for the murderer to lead

540
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 1: the vehicle with what appears to be no other significance whatsoever.

541
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, A lady living on her own had

542
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 1: rental property all over Atlanta. That means if she was

543
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 1: personally involved and let's just say rent collection or people

544
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 1: coming by her home to leave rent. I don't know

545
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,400
Speaker 1: if that is accurate or not, but that's a whole

546
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 1: another can of worms regarding who killed Kay Thomason with

547
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:56,399
Speaker 1: one hundred thousand dollar reward on the table, video surveillance,

548
00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 1: Akia Sorrento that should be covered in prints, potential DNA.

549
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:06,879
Speaker 1: Why hasn't this case been solved? Tipline four zero four

550
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 1: five seven seven tips repeat four zero four five seven

551
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 1: seven eight four seven seven Who murdered k thomasin We

552
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 1: wait as justice unfolds? Nancy Grace crime story signing off

553
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 1: goodbye friend,