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Speaker 1: Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for

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Speaker 2: the future of this show.

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Speaker 3: This is the only place where you can find honest

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Speaker 3: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

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Speaker 3: not exist anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

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Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

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Speaker 2: and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

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Speaker 3: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 3: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 3: dot com. Good morning, everybody, Happy Tuesday.

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Speaker 1: Have an amazing show for everybody today. What do we have,

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Speaker 1: Krystal Deed, we do.

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Speaker 2: We've got a bunch of big guests in the show,

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Speaker 2: and we've got a bunch of breaking news. So a

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Speaker 2: top Iranian official reported killed Trump is apparently getting rejected

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Speaker 2: pretty much across the board in terms of his whole

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Speaker 2: straight up Horn moves gambit. Jeremy Scahill is going to

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Speaker 2: join with some important reporting about the negotiations, the lack

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Speaker 2: of negotiatings. The Iranians still saying we have absolutely no

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Speaker 2: interest and any sort of a ceasfire deal. Jannis Verah

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Speaker 2: is going to join to give us his perspective on

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Speaker 2: how this is all going. We're going to take a

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Speaker 2: look at the likely one hundred billion dollar request for

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Speaker 2: war funding and how that's going to go down to

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Speaker 2: you to look at some public polling and how much

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Speaker 2: the American public Democrats in.

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Speaker 1: Particular, have turned on Israel.

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Speaker 2: Rachel Maddow is offering an absolutely abysmal and embarrassing take

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Speaker 2: on the war. And Glenn Deson is going to join

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Speaker 2: us for the first time. Very excited to speak with him.

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Speaker 2: He'll give us a bit of a perspective on how

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Speaker 2: the rest of the world is viewing what's going on.

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Speaker 3: Yes, before we get to that, we did get some

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Speaker 3: shocking news overnight. Let's go and put this up here

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Speaker 3: on the screen. We had no expectation of winning this,

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Speaker 3: but it turns out that we did. iHeartRadio has called

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Speaker 3: us the best political podcast, so wow, thank you very much.

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 3: It's nice to be partnership with you again. We had

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Speaker 3: no influence or whatever on the decision. We had no idea, really, DYO,

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Speaker 3: we lobby with no one we lobby are clue we

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Speaker 3: were informally were nominated a few weeks ago. I was like,

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Speaker 3: oh that's cool, and then yeah, apparently we won, found

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Speaker 3: out overnight from our representatives.

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Speaker 1: So thank you, thank you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah board, Yeah that's right anyway, So thank you. Really

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Speaker 3: that's only being possible by everybody here who is all,

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Speaker 3: especially I guess, listening to this podcast. So seriously, thank

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Speaker 3: you to everybody's listening to this as podcast. Share an

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Speaker 3: episode with a friend, you can.

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Speaker 1: Say, is iHeartRadio? Is called political podcasts.

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Speaker 3: able to ask a technical question, which our producer Griffin

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Speaker 3: personally responds to every single one of those. So please

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Speaker 3: make sure if you've signed up that you're getting the

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Speaker 3: full benefit of all of your premium you signed up for. Griffin,

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Speaker 3: as I said, will personally respond to any of those

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Speaker 3: and if you haven't yet, please go ahead and sports

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Speaker 3: Breakingpoints dot com if you're able to, but any other

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Speaker 3: anything else at the.

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Speaker 4: Top, I don't.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's take news, all right, Let's do the news,

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Speaker 1: shall we.

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Speaker 3: So with all of that huge news breaking overnight, let's

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Speaker 3: go and put this up here on the screen. Israel

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Speaker 3: is now announcing that the top Iranian official Ali Larijani

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Speaker 3: and the Bussige commander were both killed overnight. According to

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Speaker 3: the Israeli Defense Minister, they were separate stark strikes and

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Speaker 3: part of a joint Israeli American efforts. So we have

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Speaker 3: been of course tracking a little bit of lar Jani

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Speaker 3: since the war began. He's been issuing many of the

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Speaker 3: security proclamations. The Financial Times here in the story about

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Speaker 3: his death quote was one of the most powerful members

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Speaker 3: of the Iranian regime, one of the key civilian figures

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Speaker 3: leading the Islamic Republic. After the killing of the Ayatola Khamane,

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Speaker 3: the Defense Minister said he had been targeted and killed

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Speaker 3: in an overnight strike. They warned that more assassinations and

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Speaker 3: targeted killings would continue.

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Speaker 1: This is being seen.

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Speaker 3: More as a regime collapse effort Larjani was apparently a

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Speaker 3: key figure in the crackdown on those protests that happened,

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Speaker 3: as well as besieged commander, So this is trying to

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Speaker 3: foment some sort of revolution inside of the country. However,

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Speaker 3: initial analysis actually shows that this is likely to increase

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Speaker 3: the amount of control that the IRGC and the new

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Speaker 3: Ayatola will have because he no longer will have any

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Speaker 3: competitors in the security establishment and that lar Jihani himself

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Speaker 3: was kind of more of an independent power base, and

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Speaker 3: this will roll up into the hardline command that has

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Speaker 3: taken over the country. So you could see it a

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Speaker 3: couple different ways. First and foremost was quote unquote revenge

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Speaker 3: I guess for the protesters, same with trying to crack

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Speaker 3: down on the internal security establishment of the country.

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Speaker 1: But second, what is the follow on effect?

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Speaker 3: Very much like the killing of Kamane is more likely

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Speaker 3: to centralize control into the new Ayatola and even if

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Speaker 3: he is injured or he's being controlled, whoever is controlling

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Speaker 3: him will now gain more stature I think inside of

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Speaker 3: the country. That's kind of the initial political reaction. Some

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Speaker 3: of the analysis has been going around.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, be interested to ask Jeremy about

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Speaker 2: what he makes of the and the significance and how

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Speaker 2: much of a blow this is for the Iranians. Few

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Speaker 2: things to say about this. Number One, Clearly the Americans

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Speaker 2: and Israelis are continuing to pursue this idea. If we

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Speaker 2: just keep on taking out the leadership as they did

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Speaker 2: with Hesbela, as they did with Humus, then eventually maybe

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Speaker 2: this thing will crumble. You know, we'll see if they're

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Speaker 2: correct about that. So far, they have not been correct

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Speaker 2: about that. That's what Trump thought would happen in the

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Speaker 2: early days with taking on the Aetola, that the whole

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Speaker 2: thing would just sort of collapse after the decapitation strikes. So,

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Speaker 2: you know, the way the system has been designed and

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Speaker 2: you know, prepared over decades is that even if the

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Speaker 2: top leadership is taken out, they're still able to persist

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Speaker 2: and able to continue governing the country. So that's one piece.

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Speaker 2: The other piece of Zaga alluded to lar Jani himself

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Speaker 2: very you know, interesting and contradictory figure. He was a

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Speaker 2: you know, studying philosophy and math in certain ways, this

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Speaker 2: very like idealistic figure. In other ways, this incredibly brutal

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Speaker 2: and vicious figure. You know, very involved in the crackdown

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Speaker 2: on the protesters, also had been previously very involved in

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Speaker 2: like the government propaganda efforts and some you know, some

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Speaker 2: pretty outrageous propaganda efforts coming from him. So in any case,

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Speaker 2: he has taken off the field and we'll talk to

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Speaker 2: Jeremy about what that may mean going forward. At the

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Speaker 2: same time, you know, we ke been covering Trump has

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Speaker 2: gotten in over his head with the Straight of Horror moves.

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Speaker 2: Apparently reportedly he didn't think Roan closed the Straight of

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Speaker 2: Horn Moves. He thought this whole thing would be over

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Speaker 2: in four days. He thought the Ranian government would completely collapse.

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Speaker 2: Obviously that did not happen. Not only did it not collapse,

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Speaker 2: but they have in effect closed the Straight of Horn moves,

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Speaker 2: at least for the ships that they want to close

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Speaker 2: it for. The Iranians have continued to be able to

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Speaker 2: export oil themselves. Yesterday, Scott Bessett came out and said,

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Speaker 2: we're allowing them to export their oil as if this

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Speaker 2: is you know, really in our court. At this point,

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Speaker 2: they really have taken control and called the shots in

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Speaker 2: terms of what is going to go through the Strait.

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Speaker 2: So Trump making some interesting comments yesterday as he does

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Speaker 2: about you know, he's kind of all over the place.

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Speaker 2: He's saying, oh, yeah, the coalition of these other countries

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Speaker 2: is coming together, and then at the same time talking

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Speaker 2: about how many countries are reluctant to join in the

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Speaker 2: US effort here for very understandable reasons. Let's go ahead

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Speaker 2: and take a listen.

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Speaker 1: To a one.

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Speaker 5: Numerous countries have held me there on the way. Some

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Speaker 5: are very enthusiastic about it, and some are in summer

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Speaker 5: countries that we've helped for many, many years. We've protected

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Speaker 5: them from horrible outside sources, and they weren't that enthusiastic,

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Speaker 5: and the level of enthusiasm it matters to me. We

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Speaker 5: have some countries where we have forty five thousand soldiers,

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Speaker 5: great soldiers, protecting them from harm's way, and we have

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Speaker 5: done a great job. And when we want to know,

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Speaker 5: do you have any mind sweepers, Well, it would rather

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Speaker 5: not involved, sir, I said for you, I mean, for

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Speaker 5: forty years we're protecting you, and you don't want to

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Speaker 5: get involved in something that is very minor, very few

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Speaker 5: shots going to be taken because they don't have many

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Speaker 5: shots left. But they said, we'd rather than not get involved.

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Speaker 5: I just want the fake news media and everybody else

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Speaker 5: to remember that that was said, because when I've been

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Speaker 5: a big critic of all of the protecting of countries,

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Speaker 5: because I know that we'll protect them and if ever needed,

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Speaker 5: if we haven't needed help, they won't be there for us.

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Speaker 5: I've just known that for a long period of time,

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Speaker 5: just like I knew about the Straight that it would

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Speaker 5: be a weapon, which I predicted a long time ago.

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Speaker 2: So so far, we don't know many countries that I

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Speaker 2: think I saw one Argentina I believe, signed up and

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Speaker 2: said they were willing to join after we effectively, like

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Speaker 2: you know, ring their elections in favor of Javi or Malay.

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Speaker 2: But in any case, the European nations have been uncharacteristically

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Speaker 2: have found a backbone on here, and the reason is

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Speaker 2: because they're like, Okay, you got yourself into this mess,

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Speaker 2: and if you're going to be escorting ships through the

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Speaker 2: Straight up for moves effectively sitting ducks, I mean, this

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Speaker 2: is not something to be done. It doesn't take a

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Speaker 2: lot of military capability for the Iranians to be able

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Speaker 2: to strike these tankers or whatever ships are trying to

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Speaker 2: escort them through there. So the Europeans thus far are like, yeah, no,

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Speaker 2: I don't think so.

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Speaker 1: There's two reasons that the Europeans don't want to do it.

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Speaker 3: Number one, it's massively, massively politically unpopular, and you're a

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Speaker 3: cure Starmer, who himself is a political joke, is putting

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Speaker 3: out hype real videos about how he stood up to

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Speaker 3: the big bad the United States, and he's like, reform

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Speaker 3: and conservatives wanted to drag us into war.

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Speaker 1: And I stood up and I said no, we're not.

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Speaker 3: And by the way, that was cooler than the way

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Speaker 3: that he did it the rendition. You have multiple other

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Speaker 3: European leaders who are like, I don't want so part

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Speaker 3: of this. The second is actually a bigger strategic question.

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Speaker 3: They have to husband their resources because their population is

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Speaker 3: getting hit by a nat gas by oil. But remember

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Speaker 3: they have Ukraine that they care a lot about, and

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Speaker 3: right now they have to decide, specifically on the munitions front,

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Speaker 3: whether to continue buying their assets from the United States

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Speaker 3: passing them on to the warren Ukraine. They care a

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Speaker 3: lot about the Russian front. There's already a fracturing in

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Speaker 3: the political coalition within the EU. The Belgian Prime Minister

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Speaker 3: came out yesterday and said, look, guys, maybe we should

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Speaker 3: just normalize relations with Russia. They're like, this isn't working anymore.

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Speaker 1: I know. So the whole world is moving on right now.

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Speaker 3: So they have a ton of their own considerations on

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Speaker 3: the continent, not to mention lack of political popularity, and

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Speaker 3: their willingness to take casualties is way lower than the

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Speaker 3: United States. They also look, I mean, if you're like

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Speaker 3: the golf countries. The golf countries were said, there were

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Speaker 3: some of the best allies of the United States. We

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Speaker 3: have a defense cooperation agreements. They bought a ton of

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Speaker 3: missiles from US. Well, they're furious right now over the

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Speaker 3: lack of political and military defense from the United States.

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Speaker 3: We're topping up Israel with new interceptors and new munitions,

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Speaker 3: and for many of them, they feel as if they

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Speaker 3: were thrust into this war through no choice of their

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Speaker 3: own or maybe you know, their political leaders. The monarchs

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Speaker 3: may have supported, but the ordinary people, their economies, a

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Speaker 3: lot of their investors and others, they're freaking out. And

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Speaker 3: this clip which we're about to show you, Trump saying

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Speaker 3: we had no idea that they were going to get hit,

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Speaker 3: isn't going to go over so well.

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Speaker 6: In the Middle East.

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Speaker 1: Let's take a three and take a listen.

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Speaker 5: In the last two weeks, they weren't supposed to go

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Speaker 5: after all these other countries in the Middle East. Those

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Speaker 5: missiles were set to go after them, so they hit Qatar,

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Speaker 5: Saudi Arabia, Uae, Bahrain, Kuwait. Nobody expected that we were shocked.

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Speaker 3: Nobody expected that we were shocked except for every independent

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Speaker 3: analyst on the war in including on the shit.

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Speaker 1: You could go and look back.

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Speaker 3: Seriously, I mean, many of these streets of Parsi interviews

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Speaker 3: that we've done have aged incredibly well over just the

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Speaker 3: last couple of weeks. By the way, what's the cost?

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Speaker 3: Does anybody want to tell me? The cost is not

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Speaker 3: just all of the dead Iranian civilians, all the civilians

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Speaker 3: in Israel, all of the civilians in Lebanon, all of

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Speaker 3: these like poor migrant laborers who are getting struck or

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Speaker 3: working in Kuwait or Dubai Airport. It's also our own

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Speaker 3: American soldiers who we owe the highest responsibility to. So

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Speaker 3: let's go ahead and put a four up there on

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Speaker 3: the screen. As you guys can see in front of you,

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Speaker 3: the number of US troops wounded in Iran now surpasses

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Speaker 3: two hundred across seven different countries, and I think that

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Speaker 3: hits it home.

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Speaker 1: This is not just one attack.

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Speaker 3: That's what they try to sell it to you, as

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Speaker 3: they're like, oh, it was just one attack on a

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Speaker 3: tactical operations center. No, you have two hundred troops who

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Speaker 3: are wounded in seven different countries. You had a medical

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Speaker 3: evacuation flight already from Saudi Arabia from that base are

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Speaker 3: from the tactical operations center which was hit. You have

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Speaker 3: now seven seven different countries. One hundred and eighty have

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Speaker 3: thankfully been able to return to duty, but at least

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Speaker 3: some ten remain in critical condition. You have thirteen Americans

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Speaker 3: which are now dead in the conflict, the same number

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Speaker 3: that were killed in Joe Biden's withdrawal from Afghanistan. And

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Speaker 3: that's just where things stand as of two to three

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Speaker 3: weeks into the conflict. Remember that we have twenty five

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Speaker 3: hundred US Marines which are now on their way to

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Speaker 3: the Middle east'll be arriving sometime within the next week.

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Speaker 3: A lot of eyes and ears open for potential ground operations.

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Speaker 3: You have the a second Airborne who's tactical what was

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Speaker 3: it their training exercise was canceled for potential deployment. So

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Speaker 3: this is just beginning at this point. No signs of

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Speaker 3: an offer rap, which is what we're going to talk

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Speaker 3: to Jeremy about.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and we also learned yesterday, you know, that fire,

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Speaker 2: the laundry fire on the gerald Ford aircraft carrier, which

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Speaker 2: these sailors have been at sea already for like almost

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Speaker 2: a year. They're going to break the record for the

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Speaker 2: longest deployment on you without any sort of a break

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Speaker 2: in a long time. That fire, if we're even buying

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Speaker 2: the official story at this point that this was a

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Speaker 2: fire that started in the laundry room. They battled it

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Speaker 2: for thirty hours. Six hundred sailors and crew members are

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Speaker 2: now without their beds, so they're having to sleep on

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Speaker 2: the floor or on tables. By the way, now there

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Speaker 2: is no laundry facility on this aircraft carrier, so all

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Speaker 2: of these thousands of sailors without the ability. I mean,

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Speaker 2: this's not like life threatening, but it sounds incredibly horrible

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Speaker 2: and unpleasant after you've been at sea for all of

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Speaker 2: these many months and keep getting extended and extended and extended.

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Speaker 2: And this is also the ship that was having all

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Speaker 2: the toilet issues. So the whole thing, I mean, it

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Speaker 2: sounds absolutely miserable, and this whole thing is breaking down.

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Speaker 2: And they also had, you know, they completely undersold this

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Speaker 2: fire from the beginning, and there were a bunch of

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Speaker 2: these sailors that had to be treated for smoke inhalation,

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Speaker 2: like this was a serious deal. So this is the

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Speaker 2: sort of thing that you're dealing with as well with

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Speaker 2: this military. And we've had you know, all of these

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Speaker 2: you know, aircraft falling out of the sky. I'm not

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Speaker 2: really sure why we're getting official story. We're not really

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Speaker 2: clear on whether that's accurate either, but you know, yeah,

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Speaker 2: there's already significant, certainly significant damage in terms of you radars,

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Speaker 2: that battery systems, bases in the region, and we are

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Speaker 2: now getting a little bit more of a glimpse into

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Speaker 2: what the actual human toll is, which again is very

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Speaker 2: different from what they told us. You cannot believe these

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Speaker 2: people on anything. They just lie routinely. Routinely they lie

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Speaker 2: about the most basic things, even things that they know

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Speaker 2: will ultimately come out in the end.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I spoke to I spoke to somebody who

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Speaker 3: would know. It's a former US Navy served on board

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Speaker 3: of aircraft carriers apparently, and I've talked about this a

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Speaker 3: little bit about why fire control is so important in

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Speaker 3: the US Navy.

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Speaker 6: Obviously, it's a ship.

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Speaker 1: Fire is bad, right, So.

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Speaker 3: One of the things is apparently when fire gets into ventilation,

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Speaker 3: it makes it incredibly difficult to be able to put

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Speaker 3: it out, and that's one of the reasons why it raids.

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Speaker 3: So the official story may be correct, but the point

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Speaker 3: actually remains. First of all, you know, this is not

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Speaker 3: ever supposed to happen like this is a disaster. It's

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Speaker 3: almost certainly a result. Now of this prolonged deployment, they

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Speaker 3: will likely mark the record for a post Vietnam carrier

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Speaker 3: deployment longest. So what is that fifty years? At some point,

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Speaker 3: they are also being told on board that they're likely

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Speaker 3: to extend at least until May. So it's already March seventeen.

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Speaker 3: They've got a month and a half left to go.

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Speaker 3: You have another carrier strike group which is coming to

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Speaker 3: relieve them of duty. Obviously, these poor guys have been

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Speaker 3: stuck out there. Just imagine, you know, toilets, laundry fire.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's a nine's six hundred. I don't know

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Speaker 3: if you've ever seen. I mean, I haven't seen a

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Speaker 3: modern aircraft carry I've been on board, you know, some

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Speaker 3: of the ones that are like museums, like in San Diego.

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Speaker 3: It's not a comfortable environment to be living on board

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Speaker 3: for ten months. Yeah, that's with decent food and port

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Speaker 3: calls and all those other So it's not great from

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Speaker 3: what we're learning so far. And these guys, I mean,

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Speaker 3: these poor poor service members. On top of not to

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Speaker 3: mention all of the you know, it's not just that

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Speaker 3: they're at sea, they're also supporting actual combat operations, so

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Speaker 3: their tone tempo of like operation is probably much more,

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Speaker 3: is much higher having to deal with this at home,

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Speaker 3: not all of these US troops who have now been injured.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's already this is a total nightmare.

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Speaker 3: And it's very obvious that you can see inside of

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Speaker 3: the way that the Trump administration is currently handling this

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Speaker 3: that they just don't know what to do and they're

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Speaker 3: trying and scrambling potentially, which is what we're going to talk

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Speaker 3: about here with Jeremy, about trying to get some sort

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Speaker 3: of off ramp, like trying to open up negotiations on

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Speaker 3: the Iranian side. But you've also got Israel, which is

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Speaker 3: just like hovering over where they're obviously trying to do

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Speaker 3: regime change. They're invading Lebanon. So every day the war

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Speaker 3: goes on, it just continues to rage. Just this morning

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Speaker 3: we officially got the news diesel is now five dollars

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Speaker 3: a gallon, right, so five dollars a gallon. We all

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Speaker 3: live that way under Biden. Remember the grocery store inflation.

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Speaker 3: Every good in the country that's got to be trucked across,

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Speaker 3: that's it. Boom diesel, also jet fuel. It just like

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Speaker 3: I said, Singapore is trading like two hundred dollars a barrel.

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Speaker 3: Dubai Airspace was just closed yesterday, closed like closed, I mean,

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Speaker 3: one of the busiest airports in the world.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 3: And Qatar there's a missile interception as of this morning.

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Speaker 3: So it's not like things are turning down every day.

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Speaker 3: They're like ninety five percent capacity and all of that

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Speaker 3: have been lowered. Part of the things that you have

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Speaker 3: to pay attention is, let's say it's true ninety five

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Speaker 3: percent capacity of Iran has has gone down. As we

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Speaker 3: have all now seen with these drones, it only takes

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Speaker 3: one cheap little drone to go into cripple critical oil infrastructure.

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Speaker 3: It totally takes one of these things to wipe out

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Speaker 3: a two hundred million dollar you know, radar balloon. I mean,

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Speaker 3: and we've seen all of this happen already, and remember

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Speaker 3: we still don't know the damage. The satellite companies they're

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Speaker 3: holding the images for two weeks, So two weeks from

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Speaker 3: now we're going to find out what things look like today.

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Speaker 3: And I'm betting you it's not nearly as rosy as

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Speaker 3: the Pentagon that's making us look making it look.

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Speaker 2: Like, Yeah, I really learned something about this on October seventh,

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Speaker 2: when you know, these rallies had built this multi, multi

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Speaker 2: multimillion dollar wall and security fit with these you know,

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Speaker 2: cameras that are trained on gaza automatic machine gun fire

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Speaker 2: if anyone approaches, and hamas, which you know, far fewer

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Speaker 2: resources than the country of Iran has was able with

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Speaker 2: a cheap drone to go and take out the camera

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Speaker 2: and then they were able to break down the wall,

396
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Speaker 2: like that's all it took, and you know, come in

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Speaker 2: with paragliders like we are in a different era of

398
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Speaker 2: warfare where yes, like you know, militarily we have all

399
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Speaker 2: of this capacity and obviously we're nuclear armed and they're

400
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Speaker 2: not in Israel's nuclear armed and they're not et cetera.

401
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Speaker 2: And we can bomb them from the air relentlessly. We

402
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Speaker 2: can target their top leaders and take them out over

403
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Speaker 2: and over and oh yes, we can do all of that.

404
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Speaker 2: But the few things that have really made a difference

405
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Speaker 2: in terms of tilting this in Iran's favor is the

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Speaker 2: fact that number one, they are willing to take so

407
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Speaker 2: much more pain than we are. Number Two, they understand

408
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Speaker 2: they thought about us and where all our vulnerabilities were

409
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Speaker 2: much more, much more than Trump certainly thought about them,

410
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Speaker 2: and how they would react. And that's where those comments

411
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Speaker 2: about you know, oh, I had no idea they would

412
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Speaker 2: target the Gulf air nations. It's like you didn't need

413
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Speaker 2: a military planner to.

414
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Speaker 1: Tell you that. You could just have listened to them.

415
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Speaker 2: They were broadcasting this is our plan, this is how

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Speaker 2: we will respond. This is the threat to you, like,

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Speaker 2: this is what we will do. But because he didn't

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Speaker 2: bother to take any of this seriously, then he comes

419
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Speaker 2: in sap, oh my god, I can't believe they close

420
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Speaker 2: the straight from is Oh my god, I can't believe

421
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Speaker 2: I'm dealing with.

422
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Speaker 1: This oil crisis.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, I can't believe they're hitting our allies

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Speaker 2: in the region. How did you not think any of

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Speaker 2: this through? It truly is extraordinary. And let me go

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Speaker 2: ahead and put Jeremy's reporting here up on the screen

427
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Speaker 2: because it speaks to this as well and where they

428
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Speaker 2: are in the total miscalculation, at least on Trump's part

429
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Speaker 2: of how this would all go down. So Irani and

430
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Speaker 2: officials say that they have been ignoring. They've basically ghosted Witkough.

431
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Speaker 2: He has been privately requesting for them to talk. Trump's

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Speaker 2: special envoy has been texting Iron's foreign minister asking to

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Speaker 2: start talks to Iran says the war will end only

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Speaker 2: when Aron believes it has established long term deterrence. And

435
00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:02,639
Speaker 2: so the story here is that Wikoff is basically like,

436
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,199
Speaker 2: hey guys, let's let's check in, let's talk, let's have

437
00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:08,280
Speaker 2: you know, discussions, and they're like, no, because you haven't

438
00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:11,159
Speaker 2: felt enough pain yet, which again is their strategy that

439
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,600
Speaker 2: they have been broadcasting, and that Treda Parsi told us

440
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,399
Speaker 2: was likely before this war ever started, that that was

441
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:19,400
Speaker 2: the way they're thinking about it, of like, if we

442
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,719
Speaker 2: don't strike some sort of a blow and cause some

443
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,760
Speaker 2: significant pain for the Americans in the Israelis. We are

444
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:26,760
Speaker 2: just going to be subject to this cycle over and

445
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:32,320
Speaker 2: over and over again. So again, this is thoroughly obviously predictable. Now,

446
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:36,720
Speaker 2: the Trump administration has planted a story with Barock revied

447
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:40,280
Speaker 2: and Axio saying no, no, no, they reached out to us,

448
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:43,719
Speaker 2: and we're the ones who aren't ready to deal. I

449
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:46,840
Speaker 2: will leave it to you to decide, dear viewer, whether

450
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:50,640
Speaker 2: drop Site and Jeremy Scahill are more credible reporters than

451
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,320
Speaker 2: Barock Revied over at Axios, who just loves to take

452
00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:57,119
Speaker 2: whatever the administration gives and running with it. But you know,

453
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:01,440
Speaker 2: Jeremy's Jeremy sources are on the right and the ones

454
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,080
Speaker 2: with Brock revied are anonymous. So all of that being said,

455
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:06,760
Speaker 2: we have Jeremy standing by to break down his reporting,

456
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:07,560
Speaker 2: so let's get to it.

457
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,320
Speaker 3: Joining us now is Jeremy Scahill, co founder of drop

458
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:12,760
Speaker 3: site News.

459
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:14,320
Speaker 1: Great friend of the show. Good to see you, Jeremy,

460
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:15,640
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me back.

461
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,280
Speaker 3: So, Jeremy, we broke down a little bit of your

462
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:22,240
Speaker 3: reporting and the White House's denials via Axios. Why don't

463
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:25,120
Speaker 3: you just break down more if you can about these

464
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 3: alleged communications that Steve Wikkoff and the White House are

465
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,760
Speaker 3: denying happened, in which the Iranians are saying, yeah, they

466
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:33,880
Speaker 3: keep reaching out to us and are basically leaving him

467
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:35,359
Speaker 3: on red this entire time.

468
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:39,600
Speaker 7: You know, I think it was on the third day

469
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:44,240
Speaker 7: of the Israeli US bombing of Iran I started hearing

470
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 7: from Iranian officials who were telling me off the record.

471
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:51,600
Speaker 7: At first, they were saying, it's interesting because a number

472
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:57,000
Speaker 7: of third countries have been sending messages to Iran saying

473
00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 7: that the Trump administration wants to start back and talks

474
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 7: about sort of you know, endgame and if Iran is

475
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 7: interested in.

476
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:07,200
Speaker 4: Having some kind of dialogue.

477
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 7: And my understanding in that early stage was that Iran's

478
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,240
Speaker 7: political leadership had made a decision that they were not

479
00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:17,919
Speaker 7: going to talk for one central reason that they felt

480
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 7: that they need that the primary goal in this war

481
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,159
Speaker 7: was to send a message that the US and Israel

482
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,560
Speaker 7: can't just bomb Iran every four months and pretend to

483
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 7: be engaging in negotiations. And so, you know, they informed

484
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 7: those third party countries that Iran is not interested in talking,

485
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,360
Speaker 7: and then you started having Trump once he was informed

486
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 7: of this, and this is from the perspective of the Iranians.

487
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 7: Start saying openly, Oh, the Iranians are begging us to talk.

488
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,919
Speaker 7: The Iranians want to make a deal. I'm not ready

489
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 7: to talk to them yet. And then, you know, some

490
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,959
Speaker 7: days after that, so this was early last week, I

491
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 7: was told by a senior Iranian official that Steve Whitkoff

492
00:23:55,280 --> 00:24:01,639
Speaker 7: had sent WhatsApp messages to Iranian officials, including a bass Aarachi,

493
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,480
Speaker 7: the country's foreign minister, And I said, oh, I want

494
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:06,439
Speaker 7: to go to Witcoff and ask him that that's what

495
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,119
Speaker 7: I told told the Iranians, and they said, well, you know,

496
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 7: this is still off the record because we haven't figured

497
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 7: out if if we're going to respond or how we're

498
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 7: going to deal with with this. So I was, you know,

499
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 7: I was sort of informed of this for several days,

500
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,360
Speaker 7: and then I kept pushing the Iranian sources and I said,

501
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 7: I want to go to Witcoff and ask him about this,

502
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 7: because Trump keeps saying over and over that the Iranians

503
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 7: are begging him to talk, and the Iranian officials were saying,

504
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 7: you know, do you can you imagine a boss Arachi,

505
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:36,879
Speaker 7: the foreign minister of iround like texting Steve Whitcoff, the

506
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,360
Speaker 7: guy who he was supposedly negotiating with when they turned

507
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:39,920
Speaker 7: around Bomb.

508
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:41,199
Speaker 4: He absolutely has not.

509
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:43,440
Speaker 7: And they said, in fact, we're just trying to figure out,

510
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 7: like what our diplomatic response is going to be to this.

511
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 7: Do we tell him we're not ready or do we

512
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,879
Speaker 7: just ignore him? And they what they ended up on

513
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 7: was we're not going to respond to him at all.

514
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 7: What they have done, though, is they've told this is

515
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 7: what they've told me, that they've told third party countries

516
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 7: that Iran's demands include a ceasefire that would apply to

517
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 7: not only Iran but to Lebanon and Iraq as well,

518
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:12,920
Speaker 7: that they want reparations for the damage that has been

519
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 7: done in this war, and that they want a UN

520
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 7: Security Council resolution. But they still aren't at that point

521
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,880
Speaker 7: because they feel that the deterrence has not been established

522
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 7: firmly enough yet to try to raise the costs so

523
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,199
Speaker 7: high that the US wouldn't consider doing this again in

524
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 7: a few months time. So then the intermediaries from other

525
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 7: countries go back and they've told this to Trump, and

526
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 7: you know, you get some flashes of reality from Trump

527
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 7: sometimes where he's saying, you know, when he says, you know,

528
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 7: I think they want to talk, but they're not ready yet.

529
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 4: They're not just around of the position.

530
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 7: I think part of what he is revealing to the

531
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 7: public there is that he's aware that Iran's position is

532
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,640
Speaker 7: we're not going to engage in a ceasefire right now.

533
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,440
Speaker 4: And so what happened yesterday was I go to the

534
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 4: White House and I.

535
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 7: Sent Steve wik koffl what's that messag because that's his

536
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 7: preferred way of communicating, and I asked, you know, I

537
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 7: asked for comment on this. And typically when we go

538
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 7: to the White House, they do give us comment, but

539
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 7: it'll be, you know, sort of a copy and paste

540
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,399
Speaker 7: of whatever Trump's latest statement was, and I'll say, I

541
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 7: refer you to the president's remarks on this. But in

542
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:22,479
Speaker 7: this case, they send this response that read like Trump

543
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 7: had dictated it himself for his truth social feed, you know,

544
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 7: calling dropsite abhorrent and saying that we're carrying water for

545
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 7: the Islamic you know, terrorist regime, and that we're engaging

546
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:38,360
Speaker 7: in what they called america last behavior. And the only

547
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 7: reason we that I think it wasn't Trump doing it

548
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 7: is because there were no all caps in it, but

549
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 7: other than that, it basically was like a truth social post.

550
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 7: And you know, there's a there's an old saying in

551
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 7: journalism that you know, you you never know that a

552
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:52,400
Speaker 7: story is true until it's officially denied.

553
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:54,440
Speaker 4: And I think this is a case.

554
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 7: Where they then freaked out about this because it's humiliating,

555
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 7: and they go to one of their favorite journalists, Barack Revide,

556
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 7: and they spin the Alice in Wonderland upside down version

557
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 7: of this, and it's like they could solve this in

558
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 7: two seconds. Show Arachi's text messages where he's begging Steve

559
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:11,160
Speaker 7: Wickcoff to talk.

560
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:12,640
Speaker 6: That would be my challenge to them.

561
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 7: Okay, Steve Wickcoff, let's see the text messages and put

562
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:18,239
Speaker 7: them out because what the Iranians are saying is there

563
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:20,399
Speaker 7: aren't any text messages for anyone to put out from

564
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 7: their end.

565
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

566
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 2: Well, in the timeline there makes sense too, because you

567
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 2: know you said it was day three where Witco starts

568
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,920
Speaker 2: reaching out like hey guys, you up question mark and

569
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 2: Trump reportedly thought this would be over in four days,

570
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 2: So that would be the time period where they're like,

571
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 2: all right, we you know, we killed their leader and

572
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 2: we've destroyed our other capabilities. They have to be willing

573
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,959
Speaker 2: to capitulate now, right right, and then you know, are

574
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:48,160
Speaker 2: just completely ignored by them. I wanted to get your reaction, Jeremy,

575
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 2: to this news that broke overnight that to Iranian official,

576
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:56,360
Speaker 2: Ali lar Jani and Bestiege commander Gallam Reza Solamani were

577
00:27:56,400 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 2: both killed overnight. This is according to Israel's Defense Minister Katz,

578
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 2: in separate strikes. You know, how significant of a blow

579
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,239
Speaker 2: is if confirmed, How significant of a blow is this

580
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:08,199
Speaker 2: to the Iranians.

581
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,159
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, I think it's significant that Israel cats

582
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 7: came out and said this rather than it just being

583
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,160
Speaker 7: speculation or something in the media. But again Iran has

584
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,479
Speaker 7: not confirmed this yet. I mean, Ali lar Rajani is

585
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,959
Speaker 7: one of the most important figures in Iran going back

586
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 7: to the nineteen nineties, and he was involved with nuclear

587
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 7: negotiations going back to the nineteen nineties. He's also a

588
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 7: scholar of Kant, you know, a.

589
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 4: Highly educated man.

590
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 7: He recently was named as the secretary of the Supreme

591
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 7: National Security Council, which is the most important security apparatus

592
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 7: in Iran. But he was I think viewed and I've

593
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 7: just been talking to sources in Iran and they said,

594
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 7: you know, if confirmed, what this means is that the

595
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 7: Israelis have assassinated one of the figures that would have

596
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 7: been a more moderate voice in any discussions that lead

597
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 7: to the end of this war or sort of what

598
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 7: happens next. And there was some suspicion that I've heard

599
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 7: that part of why the Israelis wanted to assassinate Ali

600
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 7: Lerajani it was not just because of his role in

601
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,959
Speaker 7: the national security apparatus in this war, but also because

602
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 7: Trump has been indicating that he may want to just

603
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 7: try to make a deal with Iran and may not

604
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 7: want to go, you know, all the way to completely

605
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 7: smashing or dismantling the state. So you know, it's it's

606
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 7: certainly significant. And I think that the pattern that we've

607
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 7: seen is that when figures like Larajani or more or

608
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 7: others who are considered in a in a more moderate camp,

609
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 7: that when they're taken out, the people that replace them

610
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 7: tend to be to take a much harder line. And

611
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 7: so you know how this is going to impact things.

612
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 7: I think this is netnya who hoping that another phase

613
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 7: opens up where there's uprisings within Iran. We haven't seen

614
00:29:57,760 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 7: any evidence of that yet, but I think the Israelis

615
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 7: are very much pushing and hoping that that happens, and

616
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 7: trying to facilitate that happening. And I think it's also

617
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 7: to an extent, attempt to make sure that there aren't

618
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 7: really going to be these kinds of figures around to

619
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 7: talk toward the end of the war.

620
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 3: Very much like the Humma strategy right back in with Gaza,

621
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 3: so very much of the playbook. We've all talked about

622
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 3: it now a lot over the years. We do want

623
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 3: to talk about Wikkoff. Let's put a eight up there

624
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 3: on the screen. Apparently Wickkoff is staunch supporter of Israel.

625
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 3: I think we knew that, but apparently counts Miriam Madelson

626
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 3: as a dear friend, and Carrie is a custom pager

627
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 3: gifted to him by net Yahoo and senior Mossad officials.

628
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 3: I have to be honest, Jeremy, I think I misread Wikoff. So,

629
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 3: Mick Wikoff obviously was one of those people who pressured

630
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 3: Benjamin Netanyahu early on in the Trump administration.

631
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 1: He pressured the ceasefire.

632
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 3: Seemed to be somewhat of a diplomat or somebody who

633
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 3: was a diplomatic in the way that he shed some

634
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 3: of the pre existing notions about way things should be

635
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 3: able to should happen, open to talking to anybody to putin,

636
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 3: I said, oh wow, I appreciate that I praised him

637
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 3: a lot. Here is he showing us a true colors?

638
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 3: Is he totally out of his depth? Is the way

639
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 3: that the iranis seemed to play? What's your understanding having

640
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 3: talked to the counterparties on the other side.

641
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:09,959
Speaker 7: I mean, I uh, I don't know. I don't know

642
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 7: that you entirely got it wrong. And you you and

643
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 7: I talked about Wikkoff at that time when this first started,

644
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 7: You know, I think Wikkoff is also a manifestation of

645
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 7: part of what's happened with Trump as well. In his

646
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 7: first term as as president, Trump was very nervous about

647
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 7: sort of waging a wider war against Iran. Here there

648
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 7: was great consternation about the decision to assassinate custom Suleimani,

649
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 7: the Neo Khon wing of the Trump base, or that

650
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 7: administration was a minority player in the in the running

651
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 7: of the administration, and then Trump two point zero. Now

652
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 7: you have the Merriam Adelson, Netanyahu wing of the MAGA

653
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 7: movement that has literally purchased this part of American foreign policy.

654
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 7: Trump is not an ideological person, you know, he's a

655
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 7: he is a businessman. I don't believe he's a religious man.

656
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 7: I don't believe he believes in much of anything. And

657
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 7: so he's sort of been purchased to an extent, bought

658
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 7: in in other ways, and I think that he sets

659
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 7: the tone for what Wickcoff is going to be. So

660
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 7: when Trump was running for president this time, I think

661
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 7: genuinely he was telling Wikoff, you forced, you need to force.

662
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 4: Bob to do this.

663
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 7: And so when those are the deployment orders from Trump

664
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 7: to his real estate buddy, I think Wikoff was a

665
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 7: key player in sort of, you know, pushing that Gaza

666
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 7: deal through. At the same time, though, you have Jared Kushner,

667
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 7: who is an ideological religious figure that has a different

668
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 7: level of connections to the entire Israel situation. And I

669
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 7: think that that Wickkoff has been radicalized immensely. It's not

670
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 7: that he wasn't already a Zionist, It's not that he

671
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 7: already didn't have some of these convictions, but I think

672
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 7: that those tendencies within Wikoff were brought out by this

673
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 7: whole situation, and he was sort of radicalized to become

674
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 7: a fanatical Zionist Israel firster. And it's just, you know,

675
00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 7: it shows you what happens when you get put in

676
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 7: this meek grinder of ideology. And Metnyaho's been doing this

677
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 7: since the nineteen nineties and they have really successfully played Wickcough,

678
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 7: and I think that Kushner has also successfully played both

679
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 7: Witcough and Trump.

680
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 2: Interesting, Jeremy, I wanted to know what you make of

681
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 2: Trump's increasingly desperate efforts to convince US allies to join

682
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 2: him in some fool's errand of attempting to reopen the

683
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 2: Straight of Horror Moves. It seems that, you know, among

684
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 2: the many things certainly he didn't anticipate, he seemed to

685
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 2: not believe they would.

686
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 1: Actually close the street.

687
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 2: It's also been reporting that a lot of war planners

688
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 2: thought that, yeah, is possible they closed the Straight of

689
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 2: Horn Moves, but that would be very damaging to them

690
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 2: as well. But it seems the Iranians have been able

691
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 2: to not fully close the street, be able to pick

692
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 2: and choose this ship can come through. Our experts are

693
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,479
Speaker 2: going out to China, but if you're you know, an

694
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 2: ally of the US or Israel, you're not coming through.

695
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 2: You're not going to be able to do what you

696
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 2: want to do here. So what do you make of

697
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 2: how central this has become to the war effort.

698
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 7: I mean, it's extremely central, and I think you know,

699
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 7: Iran has been wargaming this for many years. In fact,

700
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 7: weeks before this war happened, in the month of February

701
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 7: twenty twenty six, Iran did wargames in the Strait of

702
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 7: Horror Moves that included operations aimed at shutting it down

703
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:22,319
Speaker 7: or attacking any quote unquote enemy vessels military vessels that

704
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 7: tried to come into the Strait of Horror Moves. So,

705
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 7: you know, we don't even have to back up that far.

706
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 7: We can say that literally days before this war began,

707
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,800
Speaker 7: the Iranians were wargaming those types of scenarios in the

708
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 7: Strait of Horror Moves. I think that, you know, we

709
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 7: have to connect this though, crystal, to the fact that

710
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,840
Speaker 7: the Marine Expeditionary units are being deployed that could be

711
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 7: anywhere between two thousand and five thousand troops. These are

712
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 7: sort of the nine to one one forces of the

713
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:52,439
Speaker 7: US military. They may try to take this island, harg

714
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 7: Island that they bombed repeatedly. Ninety percent of Iran's oil

715
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 7: passes through there. Trump says that he hasn't yet decided

716
00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 7: to bomb the actual oil that's on that island, but

717
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 7: you could see discussion about trying to seize that as

718
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 7: a territory. Trump's having an enormous difficult time getting any

719
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 7: nations to agree to deploy. The German Chancellor, who you

720
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 7: know has largely acted sort of like a poodle for

721
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 7: Trump since he became the leader of Germany, issued a

722
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 7: statement yesterday and multiple German officials said, we're not going

723
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 7: to get involved with this. They said the Americans in

724
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 7: Israelis didn't tell us about this beforehand. They said they

725
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 7: didn't need us, so now all of a sudden they

726
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 7: want us to go there. It's not a NATO mission.

727
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:35,439
Speaker 7: I think, if you know, if the Trump administration wants

728
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 7: to start attempting to escort ships through there, you're going

729
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 7: to you're going to be much closer to Iron's coastal territory.

730
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 7: You're going to put yourself in range of short range missiles,

731
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,439
Speaker 7: and you have the possibility of many more Americans dying

732
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 7: I don't think the world really has an appetite for

733
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 7: this at all. But you know, we've seen and you

734
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,840
Speaker 7: guys are reported on this. Trump doesn't seem to be

735
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 7: fully listened to what military advisors are saying. And you know,

736
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,360
Speaker 7: and I think that if they're contemplating putting boots on

737
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 7: the ground, then Americans should brace for more coffins coming

738
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 7: home draped in the American flag. And it's it's shocking

739
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,839
Speaker 7: to say that. You can't rule out that they're contemplating

740
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,799
Speaker 7: this right now, but it's real, it's true, and the

741
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,959
Speaker 7: Neo Kon wing of the Maga movement is in pole position.

742
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:25,760
Speaker 4: Right now in this White House.

743
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 6: Very very very true.

744
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 3: Jeremy, thank you as always for joining us. Keep it

745
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 3: up Dropside News linked down in the description. We appreciate

746
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 3: you man, thanks for joining us.

747
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:35,800
Speaker 4: Thank you guys for all your work.

748
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 2: For more on the Irun war. We are joined this

749
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 2: morning by Jannis Fara Faucus. He, of course, is an economist.

750
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:45,800
Speaker 2: He's a best selling author. He's a former Greek finance

751
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 2: minister and also host of the podcast The Econo Class.

752
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 1: Great to see you, sar.

753
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 6: Good to see you, bigle, to see your game.

754
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, So just off the top here your

755
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 2: reaction to the purported goals to the best we know

756
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 2: them of this war and how this all seems to

757
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 2: be going well.

758
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 8: It is going abysmally for Donald Trump, whatever his goals were.

759
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 8: It is a war that he started without much of

760
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 8: a strategy regarding how he's game to ended. This is

761
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 8: not me of course. It hacks back to Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan.

762
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:21,240
Speaker 8: There is a very long tradition of the United States

763
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 8: pursuing its strategy or forever war on behalf of the

764
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 8: military industrial complex. It works really very well for those

765
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 8: who are selling guns and bombs and missiles. It doesn't

766
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,240
Speaker 8: work very well for the American people. It doesn't work

767
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 8: quite all well for the rest of the world. So

768
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:42,840
Speaker 8: you know, on the altar of forever war that suits

769
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 8: the military industrial complex and now the AI industrial complex

770
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:48,840
Speaker 8: or military complex.

771
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 6: We are caught in a conundrum that.

772
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 8: Is jebardizing the well being of the vast majority of

773
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 8: the human species, and we have a Donald who is

774
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 8: slowly realizing that he has fallen headlong into a tramp

775
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 8: of his own making. My assessment is that Trump was

776
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 8: actually winning on all fronts up until he made that

777
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 8: the ridiculous decision essentially to fall into na Danyahu's Trump

778
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:23,919
Speaker 8: of you know, fighting Natanyahu's war, and from now on

779
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:27,280
Speaker 8: there is nothing can save Donald Trump politically.

780
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 3: One of the things we wanted to talk to you about, Jannis,

781
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 3: in particularly as your expertise with respect to Europe many

782
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 3: of the other US allies. We have been stunned already

783
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 3: to see an almost total rejection by the United States

784
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 3: request for assistance in the Strait of Hormuse. Guys, we

785
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 3: can go ahead and put b one up here on

786
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 3: the screen. We have a summary of all of the

787
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:51,319
Speaker 3: US allies. Japan says it currently does not plan to

788
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 3: dispatch naval vessels. We can go to the next one.

789
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,720
Speaker 3: Australia said it will not do so. South Korea says

790
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 3: we will not do so. The United Kingdom said they

791
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 3: will not be drawn into a war with Iran. The

792
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 3: European foreign ministers said they will discuss it, but are

793
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 3: not expected to expand its role. The Germans explicitly say

794
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 3: they will not participate. The Danes saying that they ahead

795
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 3: of the EU meeting it would be wise to keep

796
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 3: an open mind, but as a small country we are

797
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 3: not as a small country, large maritime nation, but we

798
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:22,280
Speaker 3: don't expect to do so. Italy, and then of course

799
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,799
Speaker 3: Greece as well says it will not engage in military operations.

800
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 3: It's pretty stunning to say that not even a single

801
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 3: one of these people are willing to step up. I'm

802
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 3: curious for your reaction as to why this time they're

803
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 3: willing to stand up to the United States and what

804
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 3: it means for the US and for Europe.

805
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 8: I wish you were right that they were standing back

806
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 8: against the United States.

807
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 6: They're simply refusing to do, you know.

808
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:50,320
Speaker 8: To send ships to a suicide mission, to a mission

809
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 8: that is bound to fade. Because, let's face it, even

810
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 8: if all those naval vessels of every possible you know,

811
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:03,279
Speaker 8: flag from Japan all the way to Norway where to

812
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:07,919
Speaker 8: accumulate to a mass at the state of Homus, well,

813
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:10,280
Speaker 8: this is a very asymmetrical situation.

814
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 6: The Anians only need, uh, you know.

815
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 8: To send one or two drones pass these vessels and

816
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 8: they will succeed in what they are interested in, which

817
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 8: is to make sure that the insurance costs of these

818
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 8: vessels are so high that it's uneconomical for them even

819
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 8: to try to pass the streets. But you know where

820
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 8: I disagree and I wish you were right, is that there,

821
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 8: you know, are European leaders, the Japanese, the Canadians or

822
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 8: Stilians are standing up to the United States. They're not

823
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 8: doing no such thing. So you take Chancellor of Merds

824
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 8: of Germany, a typical example of someone lacking the moral

825
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:59,399
Speaker 8: spine and the intelligence to oppose Donald Trump Washington, DC.

826
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 8: On the one hand, he says, oh, we're not going

827
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:03,400
Speaker 8: to take part in this.

828
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 6: Of course they won't take part of this.

829
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 8: But at the same time he allows Ramstein, the largest

830
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 8: American military base in Germany, to be used in order

831
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 8: to do bombard a United Nations member state, and therefore,

832
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:21,360
Speaker 8: you know, become complicit. Germany is complicit in the violation

833
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 8: of international law. The Brits who are doing the same

834
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 8: thing with their basis in Cyprus, the Arab States, you know,

835
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 8: they still maintain the United States military on their ground

836
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 8: and therefore they're opening themselves up to missile and drawn

837
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 8: attacks by Iran. My country, Greece, our pathetic government sent

838
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:49,319
Speaker 8: a frigate and f sixteens to Cyprus to do what

839
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 8: to protect the British sovereign ground of their clatility base,

840
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 8: which the United States has been using in order to

841
00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 8: attack Ran illegally. So our governments are quite pathetic, maybe

842
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:07,839
Speaker 8: be very straightforward of this. On the one hand, they

843
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 8: are complicit in the United States attack on the run.

844
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 8: They may not like it, but they are complicit. They

845
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:14,759
Speaker 8: are choosing to be completed in it. And on the

846
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:16,640
Speaker 8: other hand they say, well, when again to Saint Denni

847
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:18,959
Speaker 8: vessels to achieve the unachievable.

848
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,760
Speaker 2: I'm curious for your view on the likely economic fallout.

849
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 2: We can put B three up on the screen. This

850
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 2: was an analysis for the GCC member States. Goldman Sachs

851
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:31,920
Speaker 2: predicts that if this war goes on another two months,

852
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:35,360
Speaker 2: they're going to see massive falls in their GDP, Qutar

853
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:39,240
Speaker 2: and cu Wait in particular, But obviously they are global

854
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:43,320
Speaker 2: implications for the street continuing to be more or less

855
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 2: closed reverberations throughound all of the economies of the world.

856
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:49,799
Speaker 2: What do you expect if this war continues to drag

857
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 2: on as it appears likely to do, given that Iran

858
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 2: has projected that they are nowhere near ready to pursue

859
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:56,360
Speaker 2: a ceasefire.

860
00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:59,279
Speaker 8: Well, you don't need to be an economic genius to

861
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 8: know that the Gulf States, their business model is finished.

862
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 8: We have the United States and Israel have killed it.

863
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:10,919
Speaker 8: They've killed then econs. And it's not something that has

864
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 8: just been done. Now, let's not forget that this has

865
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:18,800
Speaker 8: been happening now for five six years. I remember when Trump,

866
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 8: in the dying days of his first administration, took out

867
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 8: a military commander of Iran, Sulimani. Sulimani was just about

868
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:31,319
Speaker 8: to meet his Saudi Arabian counterpart to strike a deal

869
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:36,239
Speaker 8: a piece still between Iran and Saudi Arabia. After that,

870
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:39,439
Speaker 8: you know, essentially what the Americans, with the support and

871
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:41,520
Speaker 8: the egging on Israel, was trying to do was to

872
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 8: stop at the tont between Saudi Arabia and Iran. That

873
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 8: didn't work because a couple of years later it was

874
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:53,439
Speaker 8: the United Arab Emirates that opened an embassy in i Ran.

875
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:59,840
Speaker 8: Later on it was Qatar, it was even you know,

876
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 8: the Arabia into twenty twenty three. Essentially, Israel has been

877
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 8: added now for five six years.

878
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 6: What do I mean by being added?

879
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 8: They've been trying to ensure that there's no the town

880
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 8: between the Emirates, between the Golf States and Iran, and

881
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 8: you know, that's the main reason why they entrapped Donald

882
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:27,319
Speaker 8: Trump into this attack on Iran at the cost of

883
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 8: decimating the business model of the golf Stags. Nevenaho has

884
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:38,880
Speaker 8: succeeded with the complicity explicit thinking. I don't know whether

885
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,359
Speaker 8: it was something that Trump understood that he was doing,

886
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:46,880
Speaker 8: but nevertheless he was playing the Natanu game of wrecking

887
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 8: both the town between Iran and the Gulf States and

888
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:56,239
Speaker 8: the Golf State economists. But since you're asking me about

889
00:44:56,239 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 8: the economic implications, the economic implications awful in your own country.

890
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 8: I mean, if you are a mega blue collar worker

891
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:08,480
Speaker 8: driving one hundred and fifty miles a day to go

892
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:11,799
Speaker 8: to your bullshit job in order to make ends meet,

893
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:14,799
Speaker 8: and you have to pay these gas prices, you are destroyed.

894
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 6: I mean.

895
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,480
Speaker 8: Trump came out the other day with an inane comment

896
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 8: that the United States is a net oil and gas producer,

897
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 8: which is true, and therefore he said, since you know

898
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:28,720
Speaker 8: we are a net exporterer, if the price of fossil

899
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:31,359
Speaker 8: fuse goes up, we make more money. Well, who are

900
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:34,800
Speaker 8: you to say that? Have you asked your own base?

901
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 8: Are they share holders in Chevron? Are they share holders?

902
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 6: Excellent? They're not. They you know things are bad enough.

903
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:47,800
Speaker 8: They elected you because of the unaffordability crisis or affordability crisis,

904
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 8: and now affordability has gone into the dustping of history.

905
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:53,759
Speaker 6: And it's not just that.

906
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:58,320
Speaker 8: You know, last year I was one of the commentator's

907
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 8: economists politicians who were arguing that, you know that his

908
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 8: tartiffs were not that big a deal, unlike other economists

909
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 8: who were pulling their hair out. Maybe it's because I

910
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 8: don't have much hair. I wasn't pulling mine out over

911
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 8: the tariffs. And the reason why those tariffs and you

912
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 8: remember the Liberation Day spasm in the stock markets didn't

913
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:23,439
Speaker 8: last long and very soon after that market were gung

914
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:27,760
Speaker 8: ho again and they became bullish again. Well, the reason't

915
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:31,360
Speaker 8: is because back then the situation was very different to

916
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:34,280
Speaker 8: what it is now. The war that he has unleashed

917
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 8: against the Iran, even if it ends today, is going

918
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 8: to have long term effects. The damage is permanent. It

919
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:43,440
Speaker 8: is not temporary. It's not like Liberation Day. I remember

920
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:45,839
Speaker 8: last year you had in your country, in the United States,

921
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:51,320
Speaker 8: you had a massive wave of investment due to AI.

922
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 8: Well this is going to be stamped now. Why because

923
00:46:55,560 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 8: AI is very energy intense very energy hunger, and with

924
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:05,880
Speaker 8: energy going through the roof, the AI investment spree is

925
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:12,520
Speaker 8: severely circumscribed. Then at the same there's another element to this.

926
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:18,440
Speaker 8: Last year, this time around Liberation Day, you remember, the

927
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:22,719
Speaker 8: FED was in the process of cutting interstates, not as

928
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 8: fast as don't some.

929
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:26,959
Speaker 6: Wanted them, but they were cutting interstates. Well.

930
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:30,719
Speaker 8: Now, with yields going through the roof, you know, ten

931
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 8: year bond guilds in the United States, in the United Kingdom,

932
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:42,360
Speaker 8: in Britain, in Britain, in in Frankfurt and Brussels, in Tokyo,

933
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 8: all the West Central banks are either slowing down the

934
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:50,879
Speaker 8: raid at which they're cutting interstage or they're actually going

935
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:53,440
Speaker 8: to start increasing them we already saw in Australia and

936
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 8: increasing in interest stage.

937
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 6: So you know, this is a perfect storm.

938
00:47:56,480 --> 00:48:03,719
Speaker 8: We have energy going up, AI invest and tapering, interstates

939
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:07,560
Speaker 8: going up. As I said, even if the war stops today,

940
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 8: which it can't because you know, Donald Trump has no

941
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:14,240
Speaker 8: way of the escalating unless he opens the state of Hormose,

942
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:17,400
Speaker 8: which the Anians are never going to allow because the Anians,

943
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:23,840
Speaker 8: you know, they've they felt an existential crisis. They were attacked,

944
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:26,400
Speaker 8: their leaders. Whatever you may think of Hamani. He was

945
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 8: the leader of a member state of the United Nations,

946
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 8: and he was burdered by the Israelis and the Americans.

947
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:35,279
Speaker 8: And you know they're saying, no, I mean, we're not

948
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 8: going to let you come back at us.

949
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:38,799
Speaker 6: We are going to bring you down.

950
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:41,920
Speaker 8: And even if it means bringing down the Gulf States,

951
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 8: even if it means damaging significantly Bangladesh and India. You know,

952
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 8: these are countries in South Korea. These are countries that

953
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:51,799
Speaker 8: rely on the natural gas and the oil that goes

954
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 8: through the states of Hormuse.

955
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 6: So you know, Donald Trump, like George W.

956
00:48:56,680 --> 00:49:01,759
Speaker 8: Bush before him, like l in the nineteen sixties, has

957
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 8: been caught into a trap of his own making, and

958
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:06,279
Speaker 8: he doesn't know how to riggle out of it.

959
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:07,760
Speaker 6: Honest.

960
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 3: You have described as previously as a breakdown in the

961
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:14,720
Speaker 3: neoliberal economic order. What do you see exactly the different

962
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 3: pieces that make this happen.

963
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 8: Well, this breakdown goes back to two thousand and eight,

964
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 8: to a great financial collapse to Lehman Brothers. You know,

965
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:28,080
Speaker 8: American led dollarized capital is never recovered fully from two

966
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:30,880
Speaker 8: thousand and eight. You have to remember that between two

967
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 8: thousand and eight and the end of the pandemic. In

968
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:37,280
Speaker 8: twenty twenty two, the central banks of the West pumped

969
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:39,520
Speaker 8: out thirty five trillion.

970
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:43,000
Speaker 6: Dollars, that is, thirty five billion dollars.

971
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:46,040
Speaker 8: That was quite the division, if you remember, while at

972
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:49,360
Speaker 8: the same time imposing austerity to the vast majority of

973
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:53,080
Speaker 8: people in the United States, in Europe, in Britain. So

974
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:55,600
Speaker 8: if you have this combination of austerity for the many,

975
00:49:56,920 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 8: which depresses demand and therefore in turn the secondary effect

976
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:07,600
Speaker 8: is that it depresses investment in productive machines, in you

977
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:11,840
Speaker 8: real stuff, and at the same time you print thirty

978
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 8: five trillion and you give it to the financials who

979
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 8: give you a big business, that use it to buy

980
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:18,480
Speaker 8: back their own shares, so as the prices go up,

981
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:21,840
Speaker 8: but there's no investment. And the only people who invest

982
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 8: in this world of ours essentially other Chinese on one

983
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:27,759
Speaker 8: hand and big tech on the other, who are not

984
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 8: producing anything except the power through you know, Amazon, dot

985
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:34,759
Speaker 8: Com and Uber and so on, to reach deep into

986
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:37,840
Speaker 8: your pockets and take money out, which then is not

987
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:41,800
Speaker 8: invested into productive capacity. It is invested into more machines

988
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:44,360
Speaker 8: that create more power for the chief basis of the

989
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:48,240
Speaker 8: world to put their long arms deeply into your pocket.

990
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:52,800
Speaker 8: You know, you realize that this is not a sustainable

991
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:57,440
Speaker 8: macroeconomy and the result is that, you know, we have

992
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:01,600
Speaker 8: stagnation in the West, the carnage that don't Trump said

993
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:06,200
Speaker 8: he saw in you know, the working classes of the

994
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:11,040
Speaker 8: United States, which was there. You know, he did have

995
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:14,399
Speaker 8: a point when he was raising this. Of course, now

996
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 8: he's making it far worse. He invoked that sense of

997
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:21,400
Speaker 8: carvage amongst the blue collar workers to get elected to

998
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:24,640
Speaker 8: the White House in order to enrich big tech and

999
00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:30,319
Speaker 8: the military industrial complex and you know, essentially promote the

1000
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:33,719
Speaker 8: agenda of Beniamin Netanyahu and his forever wars in the

1001
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:34,240
Speaker 8: Middle East.

1002
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 2: Let me get your reaction to something that Ray Dalio

1003
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:41,840
Speaker 2: was writing about. So he says, his reading of history

1004
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:44,360
Speaker 2: and sense of what is happening now leads him to

1005
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 2: believe that if the US were to lose in this way,

1006
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:50,960
Speaker 2: in that way, specifically being unable to take control retake

1007
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 2: control of the Straight of Hormuz, there would be a

1008
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:55,560
Speaker 2: significant risk that losing control of FORMUS would be for

1009
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:58,000
Speaker 2: the US what the suaz Canal crisis was for Great

1010
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:01,320
Speaker 2: Britain in nineteen fifty six. Analogous defeats were for the

1011
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:04,520
Speaker 2: Dutch Empire in the eighteenth century, in the Spanish Empire

1012
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:07,839
Speaker 2: in the seventeenth century. The pattern of events that leads

1013
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:10,920
Speaker 2: to the breakdown of empires is almost always the same.

1014
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:14,359
Speaker 2: Do you see this war with a Run as existential

1015
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:18,160
Speaker 2: for the US Empire and the current existing world order?

1016
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:23,000
Speaker 8: I think it's far fetched to make such gross predictions

1017
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 8: at the moment. Let's not forget that we've had many

1018
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:34,760
Speaker 8: prognostications in the past of the demise of america'shi Germany.

1019
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:38,600
Speaker 8: In the late nineteen sixties, when America, for the first

1020
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 8: time after the the nineteen hundreds, went from being a

1021
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:47,920
Speaker 8: curplus country to being a deficit country. When Richard Nixon

1022
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:50,279
Speaker 8: in August of nineteen seventy one blew up the bread

1023
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:52,840
Speaker 8: and wood system, which was a pride and joy of

1024
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:57,840
Speaker 8: you know, American politicians and American finances and American diplomats

1025
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 8: and economists. Again, then in the late sixties eighty seventies,

1026
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:06,719
Speaker 8: people were procrastigating the end of American hire Germany. America

1027
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:10,440
Speaker 8: has lost almost every war that he has waged since Vietnam.

1028
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 8: Every war begins with claims of mission accomplished, and then

1029
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 8: very soon after that ends up in a quagmire. From

1030
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:26,840
Speaker 8: mentioned in the United States extricates itself, sometimes with sometimes

1031
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 8: very ignominiously. Remember the helicopter departing from the American embassy

1032
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:37,680
Speaker 8: in Saigon, or similarly under Biden from Kabul. So let's

1033
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:40,840
Speaker 8: not rush into conclusions. There's no data that.

1034
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:45,160
Speaker 6: I mean, all empires at some point collapse or Wayne.

1035
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:48,520
Speaker 8: It's true about all the empires that you mentioned, the

1036
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:52,239
Speaker 8: Dutch Empire, the Spanish Empire, the British Empire. But you know,

1037
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:57,280
Speaker 8: the American Empire has shown a remarkable capacity to increase

1038
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:03,720
Speaker 8: hit Germany at the same time as it depletes its

1039
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:06,280
Speaker 8: soft power as well as as its.

1040
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:08,160
Speaker 6: Industry.

1041
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:12,239
Speaker 8: After nineteen seventy one, we had a remarkable phenomenon, and

1042
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:14,680
Speaker 8: this is the result of the Nixon Shock of August

1043
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:19,799
Speaker 8: ninety seventy one. America went deeper into the red, and

1044
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:22,279
Speaker 8: the more into the red the United States went, both

1045
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:25,280
Speaker 8: in terms of its street deficits and it's federal budget deficit,

1046
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:28,240
Speaker 8: the more hegemonic it became. That has never happened before

1047
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:31,040
Speaker 8: to any empire. Every impactle got into the red. Very

1048
00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:34,920
Speaker 8: soon after that weaned and died. We said, because of

1049
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:38,480
Speaker 8: the power of the exorbitant privilege of the dollar because

1050
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:42,440
Speaker 8: you know, sometimes this is this is a paradox, but

1051
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:46,440
Speaker 8: it ceases to be a paradox once we started looking

1052
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 8: into it. People talk to me about the dollarization and

1053
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:53,200
Speaker 8: the way in which the dollar is going to be

1054
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:57,680
Speaker 8: thrown off its thrown Well, you know, I asked them

1055
00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:00,600
Speaker 8: the question, okay, now, what is it that keeps the

1056
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:01,880
Speaker 8: dollar hegemony today?

1057
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 6: And the answer is it's enemies.

1058
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:07,360
Speaker 8: So you know, China doesn't want to see the dollar

1059
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:11,320
Speaker 8: being defroned. Why because they have four and a half

1060
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:14,120
Speaker 8: trillion dollars in savings. So you know, if you had

1061
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:16,279
Speaker 8: your savings in a Swiss bank account, would you want

1062
00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:17,719
Speaker 8: to see Swiss banks go under?

1063
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 6: No, you wouldn't.

1064
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:21,360
Speaker 8: So you know, the Chinese are the real adults in

1065
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:23,520
Speaker 8: the room at the moment, and they're doing whatever it

1066
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:26,920
Speaker 8: takes in order to stop Trump from destroying American here Germany,

1067
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:29,840
Speaker 8: not because they are philanthropic towards the Americans, but because

1068
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:32,239
Speaker 8: you know, they have their savings in US dollars for

1069
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:35,880
Speaker 8: the time being, they are slowly shifting their savings away

1070
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:39,680
Speaker 8: from it. Now when a significant part of the world,

1071
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:45,360
Speaker 8: including Saudi Arabia, including India and so on, shift their

1072
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:50,280
Speaker 8: savings away from a dollar system. That's when the American

1073
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:51,800
Speaker 8: Empire would start withering.

1074
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:56,040
Speaker 2: Lastly, surfer from me. On a different but related matter,

1075
00:55:57,160 --> 00:55:59,879
Speaker 2: Cuba is being threatened directly by Trump. He says, I'm

1076
00:55:59,880 --> 00:56:03,719
Speaker 2: just going to take it. Their electrical grid has reportedly

1077
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:07,040
Speaker 2: suffered a complete and total collapse, according to the country's

1078
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:11,160
Speaker 2: power operator. Obviously this puts, you know, thousands of people's

1079
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 2: lives at risk. The island is effectively under a US

1080
00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:17,600
Speaker 2: led embargo, doing them somewhat of what we did in

1081
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:20,960
Speaker 2: Gaza as well. What do you make of what is

1082
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:23,520
Speaker 2: happening to Cuba right now, what we're doing to Cuba

1083
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:26,440
Speaker 2: right now, and how this fits into whatever Trump's aims

1084
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:27,240
Speaker 2: are around the world.

1085
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:35,800
Speaker 8: The timp administration is committing a crime and international violation

1086
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:40,960
Speaker 8: of international law and basic moral standards by what it

1087
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:44,600
Speaker 8: is doing in Cuba. Whatever you may think of the

1088
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:47,279
Speaker 8: Cuban regime, it is clear but given that doesn't have

1089
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:50,840
Speaker 8: any support from anywhere, you know, long gone other days

1090
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:55,640
Speaker 8: when Cuba could rely on the Soviet Union, China, Russia,

1091
00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:59,160
Speaker 8: they may pay lip service to Cuba. The fact that

1092
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:07,400
Speaker 8: the people of Cuba remain broadly in support of the

1093
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:09,960
Speaker 8: system of government that they have broadly in support, with

1094
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:13,239
Speaker 8: a lot of you know, criticisms and a lot of

1095
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:16,360
Speaker 8: moaning and groaning and so on. But nevertheless, the fact

1096
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:21,160
Speaker 8: that this regime is in Cuba is still there just

1097
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:24,120
Speaker 8: goes to show that it does have.

1098
00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:26,960
Speaker 6: Still support.

1099
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:32,640
Speaker 8: The idea that somehow to go back to the Precastro era.

1100
00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:35,400
Speaker 6: Will be liberation is an abomination.

1101
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:41,400
Speaker 8: Remember that before Castro's revolution, Cuba was effectively annexed by

1102
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:47,440
Speaker 8: the mafia it you know, by prostitution, by drug cartels.

1103
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:50,800
Speaker 6: And so starving a whole population.

1104
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:55,240
Speaker 8: In order to force them to overthrow a government that

1105
00:57:56,160 --> 00:58:01,600
Speaker 8: does have an intertaporlar support is just an awful abomination

1106
00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:05,800
Speaker 8: of a crime. Now Gazz of course, is going to

1107
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 8: stigmatize our generation independently of our politics, in the next

1108
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:12,560
Speaker 8: hundred two hundred years, people who think of us as

1109
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:15,920
Speaker 8: a generation which allowed the genocide in Gaza to continue

1110
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:18,200
Speaker 8: and to continue even after the suppose this is fire,

1111
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:20,919
Speaker 8: because it's going on as we speak now by other means,

1112
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:24,560
Speaker 8: through starvation, through denying them. You know, they're still operating

1113
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:27,560
Speaker 8: our children without anesthetics, because they really are. It does

1114
00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:31,880
Speaker 8: not allow us, we speak, anesthetics to go into Gaza unbelievable.

1115
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:34,560
Speaker 2: Well, it may not take an economic genius to figure

1116
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:36,840
Speaker 2: out some aspects here, like oil prices going up is

1117
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:39,000
Speaker 2: going to be bad. But we're very fortunate and glad

1118
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:41,200
Speaker 2: to have an economic genius to help us sort through

1119
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:43,280
Speaker 2: these many things. Joanna Spair Faugust, thank you so much

1120
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:43,880
Speaker 2: for your time today.

1121
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:45,560
Speaker 1: Thank you sure, my pleasure.

1122
00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:00,400
Speaker 4: H