WEBVTT - Duff Goldman on Chicken Soup, Consistency, and Cakes 0:00:08.400 --> 0:00:10.480 My name is Jeffery Z. Carrion, and you're listening to 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:13.560 four Courses with Jeffery Z. Carrion from I Heart Radio 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:16.079 and four Courses, I'll be taking you along for the 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:18.360 ride while I talked with the top talent of our time. 0:00:19.120 --> 0:00:22.160 In each conversation, I focused on four different areas of 0:00:22.200 --> 0:00:25.760 my guest life and career. And during those four courses, 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:27.920 I'm gonna dig deep in and cover new insights and 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:30.880 inspirations that we can all use to fuel ourselves to 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:34.680 push forward. My guest for this episode is one of 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:37.120 the most sought after cake makers in the United States. 0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:40.720 He's known for his intricate, sensational cake designs and he 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:44.680 hosted his own Food Nework show for ten seasons. Without 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:48.040 further delay, let's get into my conversation with Duff Goldman 0:00:49.040 --> 0:00:53.640 look at Chip silver Fox for my first course, I 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:56.680 wanted to ask Duff about growing up in Detroit, Virginia 0:00:56.840 --> 0:00:59.920 and coastal Massachusetts and what smells of focus sense of 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:03.360 childhood for him today. Duff knew his answer right away, 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:06.280 and it had nothing to do with cakes or pastries. 0:01:06.520 --> 0:01:10.200 Chicken soup, chicken soup, chicken soup. Yeah, and it's funny. Uh. 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:13.240 Friend of mine, she's under the weather and I made 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:16.039 her some chicken soup yesterday and I was outside and 0:01:16.040 --> 0:01:17.840 I can't walked back in the house, and I was like, 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:20.760 oh man, it smells like being a kid again. That's 0:01:20.760 --> 0:01:23.399 just what. It just always smelled like chicken soup. Chicken 0:01:23.440 --> 0:01:27.880 soup was constantly cooking. Did you guys chicken I gotta 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:31.440 know this because you're Jewish. Did you remove the schmaltz 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:33.280 and use it or did you leave it in there 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:35.800 and just as a cover when it was like sitting 0:01:35.800 --> 0:01:37.960 in the fridge. Oh, no, you leave it in there. 0:01:37.959 --> 0:01:39.400 You leave it in there. Yeah, you leave it in 0:01:39.440 --> 0:01:42.399 there because you're saving it from montster balls. So so 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:44.880 you you use the soup once, twice, three times, you 0:01:45.000 --> 0:01:47.840 take it off and that's the montster ball schmaltz. Yeah. 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:50.320 Once all the fat is nice and hard and you know, 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:52.720 solidified at the top that goes in a jar, and 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:55.280 you're saving it from mounts balls. Oh my god, I'm 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:58.360 like so excited. Now she's knowing that. Yeah. And but 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:00.480 now here's the thing, my my, my mom and I 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:04.440 kind of like birge and having some Yeah, because you know, 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:07.680 I've worked in restaurants and like things that have been 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:11.080 roasted taste better than things that happened. So I roast 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:16.040 all my bones my chicken static dark yeah, and she like, 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:19.160 she's like, that's not how you make our chicken soup. 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:21.200 And I'm like, I don't care. It's delicious. It's better 0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:24.080 than your So okay, So let's let's for people. I 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:26.120 want I want people to understand there are two ways 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:29.239 to cook chicken. Do you roast and then cook simmer 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:31.919 real slow? And do you use wings or anything else? 0:02:31.919 --> 0:02:35.680 Are you just a whole bird? Very simple guy? I 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:40.800 use wings and drumsticks. I can't find backs, like there's 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:44.840 nowhere there's nowhere to find a chicken back anywhere, you know. 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:46.320 And it's like, I can't you know, I'm not gonna 0:02:46.360 --> 0:02:49.320 get a fifty pound frozen case of chicken backs living 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:52.280 in my house. So I've been using I use drumsticks 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:54.880 and wings. Drumsticks and wings to make the actual stock. 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:59.320 What about the chicken you add to the soup? So 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:02.200 I take all the chicken off of the legs and 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:04.880 dice it up, wait till the soup is done out 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:07.040 of back, So you don't use breast or thigh. I'm 0:03:07.040 --> 0:03:09.760 surprised you not a thigh guy. I mean, I'm a 0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:13.760 thigh guy, I am, But they're the thighs when you 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:16.360 put them in chicken soup. I just feel like there's 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:21.000 too much meat to the meat to bone ratio. It's 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:22.480 too much meat, you know what I mean. So I 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:25.480 like the wings and the drumsticks because you're getting nice 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:29.480 big bones. Yeah. Wow, God, I'm learning something. And I 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:32.320 also this is something a lot, but I put um. 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:34.680 I put a couple of pinches of cayenne in there 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:40.320 because for me, chicken soup is restorative and usually when 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:43.720 I'm making it, somebody doesn't feel good and a little 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:46.960 tiny bit of cayenne. Nobody knows it's in there, but 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:49.280 they just know that their throat feels better after they 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:52.400 after they have my soup a little bit of cane. 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:55.520 So okay, So you perfected chicken soup. The smell brings 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:57.720 you back, and the reason why you're doing it multiple 0:03:57.720 --> 0:04:00.440 times and giving it away is because it's why was 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:04.800 in your childhood, so your cures everything time your mom 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:07.440 was she the person that did most of the cooking, 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:11.280 or did any of that transferred to anyone else. So 0:04:11.440 --> 0:04:16.800 my great grandmother, what was her name, Dova Esther Steinberg. 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:20.520 We called her Mamo Mamo. Yeah. She was the baker 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:23.360 and she was a weaver and a millionaire. She made 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:26.159 like ladies hats. Yeah, I told her she was super 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:28.640 nuts and u but she was like the cook, like 0:04:28.720 --> 0:04:32.560 the baker, and then kind of skipped my grandma. My 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:36.200 grandma's incredible artist. She was a photographer, she was a 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:40.359 silver smith, she did enamel work. She was incredible. But 0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:42.440 she didn't really like to cook very much. My mom 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:45.359 was the one that really like got all of my 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:47.960 great grid Like she got all of her recipes, um, 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:49.680 and really kind of learned how to cook from my 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:52.839 great grandmother. You know, we grew up with delicious food. 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:55.120 I mean, you know, like the thing is, like I 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:56.560 kind of grew up in the burbs, right, I don't 0:04:56.560 --> 0:04:58.039 know where you grew up, but like you probably had 0:04:58.080 --> 0:05:00.760 like other friends who were also sophisticated that also ate 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:04.640 good food, right, living in like the burbs in Northern Virginia. 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:08.200 Like when I started going to friends houses right as 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:11.880 a elementary school, and like their parents would cook dinner, 0:05:12.200 --> 0:05:14.480 you know if you were having a sleepover, and like 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:17.640 I would taste like their parents. You know their food now, granted, 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:20.160 like other people's food always taste a little weird when 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:25.720 you're a kid, But nobody was cooking like we used 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:27.560 to get. I want to turn my nose out by 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:29.560 the way swans and TV dinners. I was a snob 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:32.400 at five because, like you, everything was cooked fresh from me. 0:05:32.440 --> 0:05:35.400 I'm like, this isn't spinach? What spinach tastes like? You 0:05:35.520 --> 0:05:38.480 just you sawte it? What's some olive oil and garlic? 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:40.520 When you're ready to eat it? It's ready in one minute. 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:45.320 It's not like frozen. What do we's like this patty 0:05:45.400 --> 0:05:48.839 of whipped meat with brown goop on it, and you're 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:52.360 just like, this is groat sleep, you know, while you're 0:05:52.440 --> 0:05:54.320 very lucky. So you grew up you know, the Middle 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:56.000 East and on Middle Etern as well, and I grew 0:05:56.160 --> 0:05:58.440 up with We made our own yogurt and it would 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:01.440 sit around the floors and the corner over the registers 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:05.640 and the heat. But when you take and you taste 0:06:05.680 --> 0:06:08.760 lebni fresh, you stick a spoon and it stands up 0:06:08.800 --> 0:06:10.920 and you're like, no one gets that. No, it's hard 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:14.720 to explain people that you become a snob early on 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:17.760 and not in a bad way. You just tasting food 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:20.280 as it should be. At five, six, seven, eight years old, 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:23.600 you're like, well, this is okay, My my threshold is here. 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:26.080 And then all of a sudden the floor falls out 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:28.800 when you go to someone's house. And it's interesting now 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:34.080 being a dad, like I'm really aware of like, okay, 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:36.840 like you know, I mean, she's gonna eat some McDonald's. 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:39.559 Of course she is. McDonald's is great, but she's gonna 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:41.640 know what it is, you know what I mean, She's 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:45.200 gonna understand its place in her universe. You know, she's 0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:47.880 gonna And don't you think, like you want a hamburger, well, 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:50.640 let's let's make one. You want some French fries, Let's 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:52.359 let's make some, let's say, you know, and then you 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:55.440 see the work that goes into it, and then okay, 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:57.560 let's go buy some and then you know, actually it's 0:06:57.600 --> 0:06:59.240 fun to buy them. But the ones we made were 0:06:59.279 --> 0:07:02.840 really good. And that's the education right there. It's like 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:06.080 you'd spend time making it. It's kind of fun to 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:10.160 spend time cutting up and like, you know, having stories 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:13.640 and like making a mess with your kids. It's nothing better. Yeah, 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:15.920 we're putting in a wood fired oven. She's gonna learn 0:07:15.960 --> 0:07:18.320 that if she wants pizza, we need to start making 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:21.240 it three days ahead of time. Isn't that beautiful? You know? Yeah, 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:23.720 So we're gonna make dough and the next day he's 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:25.960 already can we look at it, you know, and it's like, okay, 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:28.200 we gotta punch it down. You know, It's I can't wait. 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:30.360 It's gonna be great. So I I was we have 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:33.200 a similar sort of glide path because I grew up 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:35.920 watching galping gourmet at twelve, and you watch Chef Tell 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:39.240 on TV, and like that said a lot to me 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:42.160 because I already had this great food and then here's 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:44.960 this guy traveling to Europe and like coming back and 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:47.960 drinking wine in a suit and and if you know, 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:49.360 you know, I know, you know me, But that's kind 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:52.120 of like who I am, and I never knew it 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:55.480 tenoral leven that thing would get through and become so 0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:58.840 important to me. But tell me about Chef Tell. Chef 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:01.960 Tell he was kind of a I'll do right. It was. 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:04.880 He was wild guys, really funny, like yeah he was 0:08:04.880 --> 0:08:08.520 in Philadelphia. He like he wore like leather pants, like 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:11.320 he was just like total like just swinging, super cool 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:14.280 guy and like it wasn't I think what I mean, 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:17.160 I was really young. I was probably five or six 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:19.840 when I was watching, but like I was just like, 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:23.200 this guy's nuts, you know, And like I think when 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:27.120 I was looking at him when I was five or six, 0:08:27.160 --> 0:08:29.800 I was like most of the adults I know don't 0:08:30.040 --> 0:08:32.960 look or sound like this guy. This guy is different, 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:36.040 and I like this adult. Most adults are like I don't, 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:38.400 we're we're not speaking the same language. But like this guy, 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:42.480 you just kind of got And there was something about that, 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:46.240 Like my relationship with Chef Tell, I think really informed 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:50.040 what I try to do when I'm on TV now, 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:53.160 and I tried to like when people watch Jasy Cakes, 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:55.760 I think that you know, there were a lot we 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:58.839 had a lot of kids that watched Dacy Cakes, and 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:01.920 I think the thing is was that they were looking 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:03.439 at us and they were like, wait a minute, those 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:07.000 are adults, and they're acting like that they're silly and 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:10.080 they're doing cool stuff and like they dressed weird and 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:12.600 they listen to music and they like goof around and 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:14.280 like I want to be that kind of adult. And 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:18.320 I think that that was like not necessarily conscious on 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:20.400 my part, but I think it was definitely part of 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:22.680 the d N a of sort of you know who 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:30.400 I became. In our second course, I had to understand 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:33.120 how Duff first found his way into the kitchen. He 0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:35.400 got his start as a fried cook at McDonald's, which 0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:37.960 thought him valuable lessons about cooking that he carries with 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:40.040 him to this day. So I can make twelve big 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:42.520 macs in a minute, I was like, I was good 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:44.440 at it. They put me on the register and that 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:46.320 didn't go so well. So they were they were like, 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:48.600 you're gonna be cooking, and so one of the things 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:50.920 I used to get in trouble. And granted, here's the 0:09:50.960 --> 0:09:53.400 thing I was. I had to get a permission slip 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:56.280 from my guidance counselor at junior high school to get 0:09:56.360 --> 0:10:00.000 that job. And I mean I was young and even 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:03.880 back then, like I was cooking fries. And the way 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:05.560 it would work is you would you would open up 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:07.440 the frozen fries, you drop them in the bask, you 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:09.120 drop them in the oil, you hit the button. When 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:11.240 the timer goes off, you pull them out, salt them 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:16.200 and serve them. I personally thought that they needed another 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:19.960 fifteen seconds, and I agree with you, right. I mean 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:22.120 that Crisp doesn't stay, they don't take crispy, and they 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:25.880 need they just need a little color. They need a 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:29.240 little more color. And my managers were like, you gotta 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:31.920 stop doing that. And I'm like they're better and they're like, 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:35.360 it doesn't matter that like and and it was, well, 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:40.040 it does matter. It's McDonald's taught me some really serious lessons. 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:42.679 And I think that anybody wanting to get into culinaries 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:47.320 should go work at McDonald's first, because you learn all 0:10:47.400 --> 0:10:50.520 the dumb stuff that nobody wants to teach you. You 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:54.640 run nice kitchens that are putting out really crazy food. 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:56.439 You can't have people that don't know what they're doing 0:10:56.520 --> 0:10:57.960 walking in your kitchen be like, hey, I want to 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:00.240 I want to work it right. There's just some things 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:02.440 you're not going to teach people, like hey, when you 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:04.920 do this, do it the same way every single time. 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:07.360 You know, like you know, I'm not painting to think 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:11.520 pinion your technician. You know you're a technician. It's just 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:14.000 seth McDonald's. You're a technician. But it's important because I 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:16.319 tell people it's three shows a day, breakfast, lunch, and dinner. 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:18.280 You do the same thing every day. You better do 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:20.880 it right fifteen hundred times a week. Well, you're not 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:23.880 gonna have a job. That's what it is. It isn't 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:28.079 this artism. Art Artistry comes and goes like a meteor, 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:30.360 and when it comes you grab it. But you gotta 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:32.760 put in a bottle. You're not selling your artistry. You're 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:35.840 selling like, Okay, I had this, I spent all this 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:39.200 time on this fantastic coat of birth of four. But 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:41.800 they want the cheeseburger. They sell more, They want more 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:45.480 of those, So you gotta like accept it and move on. Yeah, 0:11:45.520 --> 0:11:47.800 that's a bitter pill to swallow. It's a bitter pill 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:49.960 to swallow. But I love that the fact that you 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:53.559 spent a lot of time in um Sandwich, on Cape 0:11:53.559 --> 0:11:57.079 Cod mass And I'm a Massachusetts boy, So what the 0:11:57.120 --> 0:11:59.880 hell did you do? And sich I did. I graduated 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:02.880 school in Sandwich. We moved up there from Virginia. Kind 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:04.760 of split up, so, you know, we got out of 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:06.480 My dad was in government, so we got out of 0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:11.479 the DC area, and my mom watched too much northern exposure, 0:12:11.559 --> 0:12:14.320 so she wanted some sort of brand adventure as a 0:12:14.480 --> 0:12:17.840 recent divo se and so she was like let's move 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:21.520 to Cape Cod, you know. So we moved to Cape 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:24.120 Cod and she, you know, it's lovely, you know her 0:12:24.240 --> 0:12:28.200 my stepdad like, oh, it's beautiful. It was like we 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:30.400 moved there and I was like, there are three stoplights 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:32.320 in this town. I am not cut out for this, 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:35.600 and I ended up it's just my spiritual home. You know, 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:39.000 it's a really wonderful place. And I love clams. I 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:43.640 fun fact about Duff. I think about clams at least 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:47.440 once a day. Wow, they're that good there, aren't they. Yeah, 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:52.280 I just love clams. Clams. You have to understand people's 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:55.240 like it's a religion. They're so expensive. People don't realize 0:12:55.240 --> 0:13:00.480 they're like a fortune. A gallon of clams is like old, 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:05.080 but like frying a clam, Like everybody in the world, 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:08.920 there's like nine nine point eight percent of the world 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:15.679 thinks that pride clams are clam strips, and nobody understands, 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:19.920 like what a real ipswitch clam fried with the belly on, 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:23.040 and like what the difference? Tell us? How you would 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:27.600 tell him to walk us through a fried clam demo? Sorry, 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:29.960 if I was gonna fried clams, I don't know if 0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:32.520 I've ever fried a piss plam before. So they're called 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:34.960 piss clams because when you when you dig for him 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:36.600 and you pull them out of the sand, they squirt 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:39.600 water at you. Um. But so you had sort of 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:41.600 had these sort of long squid way bodies and they 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:44.040 got a big belly. They got this big round belly. 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:46.400 Do you like the bellies and no bellies? You like 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:49.160 the whole thing? Right? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, the bellies 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:52.280 that's the part. Right. It's the it's like you get 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:55.440 all you get all this crunch, you get all this 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:59.000 chew from like the clam meat, but then you get 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:01.880 the belly and it's like a gusher. Yeah, yeah, I know. 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:04.560 It's amazing. So I do like it with a roll 0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:07.719 toasted or you like it, um, just in a in 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:11.320 a pint cup with mayonnaise or or or tartars. Yeah. 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:15.320 I like him. I like him in a huge I 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:18.679 Am pole and a big thing of tartar sauce and 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:23.400 a Parker House roll cold butter. Yeah. Man. So you're 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:27.160 like you're sort of like graduating Baltimore. You've got a 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:30.280 history degree, philosophy degree, and then you just said, screw it, 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:33.440 I'm going to culinary school. You know, it's funny. So 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:35.640 when I was when I was a kid, when I 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:38.440 was young, the reason I got a job at McDonald's 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:41.760 was because I was a graffiti artist and you know, 0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:44.320 I couldn't ask my mom for money for spray paint, 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:47.080 so I had to get a job. And so I 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:49.280 got a job so I could make enough money to 0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:52.360 buy spray paint. That was kind of my intro to cooking, 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:54.320 you know, I mean, everybody finds it differently, you know. 0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:56.560 You know, I'm sure you have a crazy story about like, 0:14:56.600 --> 0:14:58.920 you know, how you actually started doing it, but it's 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:01.240 like that was it. I just I needed a paycheck, 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:04.040 and so that was my first job. And then, you know, 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:06.800 it was like as I went through high school, I 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:09.520 just kept working in different places. I worked at pizza place. 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:12.480 It's just what I did. And then when when I 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:14.680 was a senior in high school, and I like, I 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:17.680 remember the moment I was working at Sandwich Pizza, which 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:21.200 is the pizza place in Sandwich, Massachusetts, not a place 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:25.000 that makes sandwiches out And so I was making a 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:26.880 steak and cheese and so I had a big block 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:30.200 of frozen shaped meat banging it on the flat top 0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:33.120 and I'm cutting it up with two big grittle spatules yea. 0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:36.080 And I noticed as I was doing that, my brother 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:37.960 was in the kitchen and he like came to the 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:40.080 restaurant because he wanted to take and cheese. So I 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:42.280 was talking to my brother and the whole time I 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:45.560 was like and so I like realized, I was like, man, 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:48.320 I'm just doing this. My hands are just doing this 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:51.480 completely on their own while I'm having a whole conversation 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:53.720 with my brother, and I'm not at all focused. I'm 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:56.040 good at this. I should be a chef. I was like, 0:15:56.160 --> 0:15:57.960 that was the moment that I was. I was like, 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:18.840 you know, I'm not going to underground Billy for our 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:21.280 third course. I dug into how Duff followed that drive 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:23.040 to become a chef all the way to the top. 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:26.680 He skyrocketed from culinary school to the French laundry, to 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:30.600 executive pastry chef and a ski resort in Colorado. But 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:34.120 Duff says it all started with cornbread and biscuits. So 0:16:34.160 --> 0:16:39.080 I was working at you do you know Cindy Wolf? Okay, Yeah, 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:41.800 So I was working for Cindy Wolf and she was like, look, 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:43.760 you know, she wasn't gonna hire me to cook because 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:45.760 I didn't know how to cook. She's like, I'll teach 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:47.520 you how to bake cornbread and biscuits. You can do 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:50.400 that Tuesday, two days a week. Watch these guys, and 0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:52.880 you know, maybe, you know, we'll see what happens. So 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:55.680 I ended up baking cornbread every day for two years, 0:16:56.280 --> 0:16:58.200 and I just fell in love with it. Got good 0:16:58.240 --> 0:16:59.880 at it, Yeah, I got well, yeah, I got real 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:03.760 it at it. I just would notice, like I I 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:07.920 saw how my awareness of the world changed in that, 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:10.159 Like I knew if it was going to be humid, 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:13.199 I knew that, like the cornbread wasn't gonna caramelize the 0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:15.600 way that he usually does, or you know, I would 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:18.320 like if the butter milk was to gloppy. I knew 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:20.480 that it was going to be a thicker batter, you know, 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:22.119 it was going to be a standard mean, just like 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:25.000 all these little things that I started noticing because you're 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:28.479 doing the same thing over and over every day for 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:32.639 two years. It's like being in solitary confinement. You start 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:37.280 noticing the minutia. And I loved it. I just loved it. 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:40.400 I loved trying to understand the side I didn't even 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:42.280 know where to look at this point, you know, but 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:44.520 trying to understand sort of like what was happening here. 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:46.320 I mean, you know, I have a degree in philosophy. 0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:50.120 I'm analytical, so I was. I was at our exact 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:55.000 seu's house and on his coffee table there was brochure 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:57.520 for Graystone, and I was just like, whoa, look at 0:17:57.520 --> 0:18:03.159 this place. Looks that looks best way you saw. I 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:06.119 love this brochure. Let's go. It's great. And then I 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:08.040 was reading through it and they're like, yeah, they have 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:10.400 a pastry program. And the thing that I really liked 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:12.560 about it was that they had a certificate program. It 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:15.399 was like thirty weeks right. I was like, look, I 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:19.440 just graduated college. I don't need another degree. I don't 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:21.359 want to be in school for two years. It's like 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:23.600 this place, man, thirty weeks in and out. And I 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:26.720 was like, that's what I'm doing, you know. I mean, 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:33.520 isn't that People understand how beautiful it is. It's like Hogwarts. 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:36.280 I mean you walk in there and it's just the 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:38.800 staircase that just goes all the way up and then 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:40.959 you get up there and the teaching kitchen, I mean 0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:44.280 you have every amazing piece of equipment that you could 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:47.280 ever want that you'll never see in the real world 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:52.280 because nobody has a steam injected bone guard oven unless 0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:54.399 you're you know, Daniel Blut, you know what I mean, Like, 0:18:54.440 --> 0:18:56.600 you know, it's just it was just amazing and like 0:18:56.640 --> 0:18:59.800 the teachers are incredible that you know, you have every herb. 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:04.680 California is you know, California is awesome. Everything grows there, everything, everything, 0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:07.240 And so I also so the great thing about that 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:09.760 program is you've got to stage at some really good places. 0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:12.320 So you're now in the thick of it. You're in 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:14.600 the weeds and the swamp, but you're in like Nirvana 0:19:14.600 --> 0:19:16.720 at the same time because you're working at French Laundry, 0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:18.240 one of the greatest restaurants in the world, as a 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:21.639 stage and you met a gentleman Stephen was a great 0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:25.480 great pastry shift. So what was that experience like and 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:29.320 how did that sort of push you? Yeah, you know, 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:33.280 how did that push you in what? And in which direction? Yeah? 0:19:33.359 --> 0:19:35.920 I think, um, you know, people ask about the French 0:19:36.000 --> 0:19:37.480 Launge is like, you know, what did you learn there? 0:19:37.480 --> 0:19:40.320 I think the thing that I learned the most is 0:19:41.280 --> 0:19:46.359 digging deep, right, like making sure that like my first 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:50.320 plate and my last plate are identical, and that there's 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:52.960 just as much heart and love and soul that went 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:56.360 into the last plate of dinner that night that went 0:19:56.400 --> 0:20:00.879 into the first plate. Everybody expects an incre doable experience 0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:02.280 and you have to give it to him. And I 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:04.639 think that was one of the things where you know, 0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:06.480 at the end of the night, you know, I was young, 0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:08.680 and like you know you you like, oh man, I'm 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:10.280 just kind of beat, you know what I mean. It 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:15.280 doesn't matter that play has to be absolutely perfect every 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:17.920 single time. And I think that it was that like 0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:21.639 I learned the depths of myself there, you know what 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:24.639 I mean. And Stephen himself, Like the thing about Stephen is, 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:30.040