1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: If you examine every NBA team's history, you can easily 2 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: find specific instances where front offices made a big swing 3 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:11,959 Speaker 1: to try and extend an era. Sometimes those swings connect 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: and other times they fall flat on their face. Look 5 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:18,760 Speaker 1: no further than today's NBA for examples of what I'm 6 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 1: talking about. Two recent instances, the Bucks trading for Damian 7 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: Lillard and the Suns trading for KD and Bradley Beal, 8 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: are both great examples of front office swings. Both the 9 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:33,200 Speaker 1: Sons and the Bucks made the Finals in twenty twenty one, 10 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:37,199 Speaker 1: and since that finals appearance they've had brutal playoff losses 11 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 1: and a lot of questions. But both the Sun's moves 12 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 1: and the Dame trade were moved by the front office 13 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:45,839 Speaker 1: to try to get back to that mountaintop. But not 14 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:49,199 Speaker 1: every swing does end in a miss. There are a 15 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:51,919 Speaker 1: lot of examples of teams that took that swing and 16 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: it ended up paying off. How about the Boston Celtics 17 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 1: in two thousand and seven when they traded for KG 18 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: and Ray Allen. Paul Pierce was on their record saying 19 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: he was thinking about leaving, he was in trade talks. 20 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 1: They take that swing for KG and Ray Allen and 21 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:08,320 Speaker 1: they win a title in two thousand and eight. We're 22 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: gonna look at this one a little bit later, but 23 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: the Lakers taking the swing for Pagasol. Kobe had publicly 24 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:16,680 Speaker 1: requested a trade at the end of the two thousand 25 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: and seven season. 26 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:19,399 Speaker 2: Well, if you don't know how you can move forward 27 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:21,960 Speaker 2: in that situation, you're still under contract with them. 28 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 3: Are you saying right here on this show that you 29 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 3: want to be traded? 30 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, I would like to be traded. 31 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: The Lakers make that trade for Gasol and go to 32 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:34,119 Speaker 1: three straight finals, winning two of them. You could even 33 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 1: look at the Bulls trading for Dennis Rodman in nineteen 34 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:41,679 Speaker 1: ninety five. Rodman was fresh off a meltdown in the playoffs, 35 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 1: he had his shoes off on the bench, and the 36 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:46,839 Speaker 1: Bulls were fresh off of postseason loss to the Magic. 37 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 1: The Bulls make that big swing for Rodman and then 38 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: go on to win three consecutive championships. Without that Rodman swing, 39 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 1: they probably don't win three. And how about the MAVs 40 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 1: trading for Jason Kidd in two thousand and eight. They 41 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 1: made the finals in two thousand and six and lost 42 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: to the Heat. Two thousand and seven, they have an 43 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: embarrassing first round playoff loss to the Warriors, and then 44 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 1: they make that trade for Kid, go through a little 45 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:15,920 Speaker 1: bit more hardships, but end up winning the championship in 46 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: twenty eleven. All right, now, joining me, my brother, my 47 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: co host Jelani McCoy, and today we're gonna dig deep 48 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 1: into some swings and misses that front office has made 49 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: that they made to try and prolong an era, but 50 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: they really just kind of expedited the downfall of their team. 51 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: J Mack, you got some I feel like there's some 52 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,079 Speaker 1: legends kind of staring me in the eyes and it's 53 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: not you. 54 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it's purposeful. 55 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 1: So we're going to start in Philadelphia in two thousand 56 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 1: and five for our first front office swing in miss 57 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 1: to set the scene a little bit. The Philadelphia seventy 58 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 1: six Ers behind Alan Iverson, they make the finals in 59 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 1: two thousand and one a David Verse Galai feel you 60 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: got Iverson, And I mean it's a lot of people 61 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 1: pointed that Sixers team and say that one Ai had 62 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: no help. But then you have another contingent that looks 63 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: at that Sixers team and they see that they had 64 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:16,920 Speaker 1: the defensive player of the year to Kevin Mtumbo, they 65 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:18,959 Speaker 1: had the coach of the Year, they had the sixth 66 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:22,639 Speaker 1: man of the Year, Aaron McKee. Where do you where 67 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 1: do you? Where do you lie? On that pendulum? Did 68 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:29,239 Speaker 1: AI have help or did he drag that team through 69 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: the Eastern Conference mud? 70 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 2: Can we go? Can we go fifty to fifty? Sixty 71 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 2: forty on that? You know what I mean? I feel 72 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 2: like he drugged that team. But he also had the 73 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 2: cast of characters so to speak, that allowed him to 74 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 2: be the Allen Iverson that we all know to know 75 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 2: and love, right, A lot of ISO ball just you know, 76 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 2: a lot of defense, a lot of players who are 77 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 2: willing to sacrifice their own personal goals, whether that be 78 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 2: scoring more or you know, playing defense or you know 79 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 2: Larry Browns in Notoria defensive coach, so you're gonna have 80 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 2: to play some defense playing with LB. But I think 81 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 2: it was a little bit as like a sixty forty 82 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 2: because he did drag. No disrespect, no, no, no disrespecting nobody 83 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 2: out there, But he did drag a little bit, you 84 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 2: know what I'm saying. Hopefully people on the team will 85 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 2: tell you that, because who do you have out there 86 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 2: like Matt Geiger, like Todd mccullock's you know, he had 87 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 2: a couple of East Snow Derek McKee, he had a 88 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 2: couple of the hommies out there. But you know what 89 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 2: I mean, a lot of the you know, whether they 90 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,280 Speaker 2: was in that was a product of Larry's system for 91 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:35,840 Speaker 2: them to be those players, that version of themselves, for 92 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 2: them to be successful. And the combination of Ai was 93 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 2: definitely bringing people with him through those Eastern Conference finals. 94 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 2: So I'm gonna go sixty forty Ai. 95 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: I'm gonna let that happen. 96 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 2: I think that's fair. 97 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: So they make the finals in two thousand and one, 98 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 1: and they do try and ad some help in the 99 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: in the following years. They get Keith van Horn in 100 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,479 Speaker 1: two thousand and two, which might not sound like a 101 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 1: huge move, but back then adding something. The next year 102 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: they get Big Dog, they add Glenn Robinson and neither 103 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:11,040 Speaker 1: of those moves really amounts too much. Two thousand and four, 104 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 1: Ai gets hurt, he plays something like fifty games, Larry 105 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:19,040 Speaker 1: Brown is out. They bring in Mo Cheeks and so 106 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: we're in two thousand and five. This is three years 107 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: removed from the two thousand and one finals. Questions are 108 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 1: being asked and valid questions. 109 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:28,720 Speaker 2: AI is what. 110 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 1: Five foot eleven, one hundred and sixty pounds, He's playing 111 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 1: like forty five minutes a night. How can you expect 112 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:37,480 Speaker 1: a dude like that to lead a team, put a 113 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:40,279 Speaker 1: team on his back year and year out and dragging 114 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 1: me to the playoffs. So practice and practice. Even though 115 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: that you may not think that he didn't practice, he 116 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 1: did practice. 117 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 2: He did. He did do this. 118 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: So two thousand and five, the front office takes that 119 00:05:54,960 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: big swing. They trade for Chris Weber. They trade Ryan Skinner, 120 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 1: Kenny Thompson, Corlis Williamson to the Kings for Chris Weber, 121 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:08,919 Speaker 1: Matt Barnes, and Michael Bradley. Weber had three years, sixty 122 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:11,599 Speaker 1: million dollars left on his deal. The salary cap in 123 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,840 Speaker 1: two thousand and five was under fifty millions per year. 124 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: So Webb's making twenty. AI is making about twenty. So 125 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: that's your team. You're going all in on AI and 126 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: Chris Weber. Weber was thirty one at the time, Iverson 127 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 1: was twenty nine mathematically, and like what you're taught about 128 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 1: NBA players is that if your two best players are 129 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 1: thirty one and twenty nine, like that's kind of where 130 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 1: they're supposed to be if you want to win it, 131 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 1: If you want to win a title. 132 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 2: That's when you're like mature as a man, Like you 133 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 2: start maturing really as a man around that age. So yeah, 134 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 2: like I felt like twenty nine thirty, early thirties, like 135 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 2: going into your thirties, that should be primed, ready to 136 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 2: make title runs and go deep into the playoffs. 137 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:56,359 Speaker 1: And so Weber has microfractured knee surgery after the two 138 00:06:56,400 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: thousand and three playoffs. Remember he gets hurt. Mike told 139 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: that story on our show where he threw the lob 140 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:06,359 Speaker 1: to Weber against the MAVs and Weber bust his knee. 141 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: He gets micro fracture, was c Web Like, was it 142 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: a completely different player post micro fracture? 143 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 2: Seweb, this is microfracture v one, right, This ain't the 144 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 2: other micro factuer with dudes's jumping back in two to 145 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 2: three weeks at k Mart and a couple other people. 146 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 2: You know, this was micro fracture v one along the 147 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 2: host of the lines of the numerous injuries that see 148 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 2: Web had, the shoulder, you know, foot, ankle, you know 149 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 2: what I mean this. You know he's had to play 150 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 2: through a multitude of injuries throughout his career, which he 151 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 2: doesn't get a lot of credit for it. But yeah, 152 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 2: like this is microfracture V one s web So you know, 153 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 2: in fairness to him, although he was serviceable, I would 154 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 2: think that he had to be a little different Dylan, 155 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 2: you know what I mean. They hadn't perfected that procedure yet. 156 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 2: Remember that was a death at one point when you 157 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 2: heard microfracture. So I think he was different but serviceable, 158 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 2: but not serviceable to the end of putting all your 159 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 2: chips in one basket and have an MB one B 160 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 2: to Alan Iverson's one A of your two man combo. 161 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 1: I mean, post microfracture, Chris Weber is still probably the 162 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: best player that AI played with in Philly. It also 163 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: wasn't it wasn't the same AI that got him there. 164 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:32,439 Speaker 1: And yet to go back on microfracture, Uh, we talked 165 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: about it with a with a Mauri, but that surgery 166 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 1: around that time, they thought that it was this revolutionary surgery. 167 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:44,319 Speaker 1: They would drill a whole into your kneecap, which sounds great, 168 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:48,440 Speaker 1: which would pool blood and in theory grow cartilage, and 169 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: a lot of these dudes like T mac penny Hardaway, 170 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: Chris Weber, you hear a lot about knee cartilage and 171 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 1: debilitating knee cartilage and bone on bone on bone. If 172 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 1: you don't have any cartilage, uh, you know, your knee's 173 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 1: not gonna feel good. But surprise, surprise, drilling a hole 174 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 1: into the kneecap bone and pulling it with blood actually 175 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: didn't make your knee any better. It actually did the opposite. 176 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 1: So guys like Chris Weber, Tracy McGrady, Penny hard Away, 177 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:17,680 Speaker 1: they got screwed. 178 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 2: That sounds like a Civil war fucking drill. They dal 179 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 2: a hole in it, and and you know, like that 180 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 2: sounds like some weird old school lobotomy. He's schizophrenic, so 181 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 2: we're gonna drill a hole in his head and it's 182 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:35,079 Speaker 2: gonna release some pressure type shit. That's that's that's it's 183 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 2: a little what's the word I'm looking for? 184 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: And medieval, yeah, archaic, kic and medievil. 185 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. 186 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: So with Philly, uh, with c webin Ai, they make 187 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: the playoffs in two thousand and five, they lose in 188 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: five games to Detroit, and then two thousand and six 189 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 1: they're both pretty healthy. Weber puts up like twenty and ten. 190 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 1: Ai is doing his thing, but they don't make the playoffs, 191 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 1: and next season Iverson gets traded to the Nuggets and 192 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 1: that is the end of the ten year Alan Iverson 193 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 1: era in Philadelphia. They take that big swing in two 194 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 1: thousand and five for Weber, and it can go one 195 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: of two ways. The East is not strong in two 196 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 1: thousand and five, it's when the Pistons go back to 197 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: back to the finals. So that's that's our first example 198 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:26,200 Speaker 1: of a big swing that a front office takes. They 199 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: see the writing on the wall. Allan Iverson's been there 200 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: for eight years. He's clearly not super happy. The fans 201 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:34,439 Speaker 1: are writing, the media are writing, you need to get 202 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 1: Ai help. They make that big swing, they try and 203 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: bring in Weber and it doesn't work. 204 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 3: But yeah, but that was like a three to two count. 205 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 3: That was a check swings on a swing. Yeah, okay, yeah, 206 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 3: you know what I mean. I feel like, you know, 207 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 3: they have they have some work on the basis, you know, 208 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 3: and you know they got it. 209 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:55,439 Speaker 2: You know. I feel like, you know, that was the 210 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 2: swing you had to take. You have some work on 211 00:10:57,520 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 2: the basis, you have some runners on the basis, so 212 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 2: to speak. So I don't feel like that's like you 213 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 2: know what I mean, a three straight juse Cansaka. I'm 214 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:06,839 Speaker 2: trying to knock the ball out of the park and 215 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 2: I'm ms go down in like four swings. I'm a 216 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 2: In all fairness, they have some runners on the base. 217 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 2: They got the pitch they were looking for, but they missed. 218 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 1: Have you ever wondered if chet Holmgren might be a 219 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 1: descendant of Abraham Lincoln or if a UFC fighter could 220 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 1: beat an alien in a fight? You might have not, 221 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: And that's okay. But Shay Serrano and Jason KENCEPSI owned 222 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:32,680 Speaker 1: from Six Trophies podcast have If you love basketball, and 223 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: more importantly, if you love fun, you gotta listen to 224 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 1: Six Trophies, where Shane Jason serve up the biggest moments 225 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: from around the NBA with their brand of unbridled joy, 226 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: banter and pop culture side quests. Each week they hand 227 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 1: out six pop culture themed trophies for six basketball related activities, 228 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 1: stuff like the Denzel Washington and Training Day Trophy given 229 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 1: out to the player or team having the best week 230 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 1: around the NBA, or the Lauren Hill. You might win some, 231 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: but you just lost one trophy for the team or 232 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: player that just can't get it Together, plus a bunch 233 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 1: more trophies for all the good, bad, or just plain 234 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: head scratching moments around the NBA this playoff season. You'll 235 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,479 Speaker 1: want to make six trophies your go to companion podcast. 236 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 1: Follow six trophies on the Wondery app or wherever you 237 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Listen ad free right now by joining 238 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: Wondery plus. So let's stay in the Eastern Conference now 239 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:30,319 Speaker 1: and go to another front office swing that also involved 240 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:33,679 Speaker 1: Alan Iverson. So to set the scene, we're going to 241 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 1: be in Detroit, Michigan right now. And this guy gets 242 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: a lot of flak for drafting Darko Miliciic over Carmelo Anthony, 243 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 1: for signing Ben Gordon, Josh Smith, and Charlie Villanuavi at 244 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:51,719 Speaker 1: big contracts. But I think you have to put some 245 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: respect on Joe Dumar's name for what he did in 246 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: the early two thousands with the Pistons. He takes over 247 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 1: the team in two thousand and one, he inherits a 248 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 1: thirty two win Pistons team. He's the president of basketball 249 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 1: operations and within four years he completely turns the tide 250 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 1: and the Pistons beat the Lakers in the finals. And 251 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 1: that was all through at the time little moves that 252 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: turned into forming a monster of a team. I mean, 253 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 1: you got to realize. Within three years, he signs Chauncey 254 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: Billpson free agency. He trades Jerry Stackhouse for Rip Hamilton, 255 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: which at the time Stackhouse, remember was putting up thirty 256 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 1: a game for the Pistons. He led them to Round 257 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 1: two of the playoffs. He gets Ben Wallace from the 258 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: Magic and the Grant Hills sign and trade, and he 259 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: trades for Rashid Wallace at the two thousand and four deadline, 260 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 1: so that three year run quality moves, super quality moves. 261 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: The Pistons win the title in two thousand and four, 262 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 1: and they end up going to six straight Eastern Conference 263 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: Finals from two thousand and three to two thousand and eight. 264 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: And this is the definition of like a grap is 265 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:02,439 Speaker 1: always greener, because if you go back and read the 266 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:04,959 Speaker 1: stuff the Pistons fans are talking about in that window, 267 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 1: it was almost like, oh, like the Eastern Conference Finals again, 268 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: they can't get over that home. Meanwhile, you look at 269 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:14,959 Speaker 1: Pistons fans now, they I mean they love basketball over there. 270 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 1: I think they would probably do some weird shit to 271 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 1: get back to the Eastern Conference Finals. So before we 272 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 1: get into this big swing, I just wanted to quickly 273 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: shout out Joe Dumars because that's a hell of a 274 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 1: little front office run. 275 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 2: So I'm playing with Joe Dumars. I'm playing with Joe Dumiers. 276 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 2: Don't nobody want to go to Detroit? Well before, you know, 277 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 2: until they started winning titles, you know, there was a 278 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 2: there was a big there's a big gap between the 279 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 2: bad boys and in these Pistons. Don't nobody they were 280 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 2: and that's not a free agent destination, Dylan, Nobody wants 281 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 2: to go to freezeae ass off in Detroit. You know 282 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 2: what I mean to play, you know, mediocre basketball. So 283 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 2: to your point, Joe Dumars did them bring you know, 284 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 2: brought relevancy back to that organization they are that there's 285 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 2: a proud organization. I never hear any bad things about 286 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 2: the Piston organizations, like they were cheap or you know, 287 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 2: they didn't you know, pay money when they needed to. 288 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 2: So I like, to your point, Joe Dumars did a 289 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 2: great job reinvigorating the franchise because I assure you, nobody 290 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 2: in the in the summertime is other than the bag 291 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 2: is looking at Detroit as a free agent destination. 292 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: Would you rather go to Detroit or Cleveland? 293 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 2: I rather go I rather go to Detroit. I know 294 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 2: about this place, man. I just stayed in my hotel room. 295 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: Man, every time I look at my window, it's it's 296 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: pretty depressing out here. 297 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 2: Man, It's bad. It's bad. So you don't You're not 298 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 2: going out. No, no going out in Cleveland now, so factories. 299 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 2: I haven't experienced the beauty of Cleveland of some of 300 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 2: the Cleveland people say this is out there. So I 301 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 2: can only go my limited experience says, and I hate 302 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 2: to do that before what my limited experience says. I'm 303 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 2: gonna go with Detroit the D. 304 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: The D's got history, got Motown's so. 305 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 2: So. 306 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: They do make six straight conference finals from two thousand 307 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: and three to two thousand and eight, but unfortunately for 308 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 1: the Pistons, the East does get. 309 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 2: A little bit better. 310 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 1: Near the tail end of that, Lebron starts to become Lebron. 311 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 1: Cag and ray Allen enter the conference, and two games 312 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: into the two thousand and nine season, the Pistons make 313 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 1: a bombshell trade that blindsided the NBA and maybe some 314 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: people on their team too. They traded former Finals MVP 315 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 1: in their point guard Chauncey billups to the Denver Nuggets 316 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: for Alan Iverson, and there's mixed thoughts as to like 317 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: why Dumars made that move. Some classify that as a swing. 318 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: I mean, on paper, you got Iverson, Rip Hamilton, Tayshaun 319 00:16:54,560 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: Prince mcdce and sheed not bad right. Everysin was fresh 320 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 1: off at two thousand and eight season where he made 321 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 1: the All Star Game. He played eighty two games, he 322 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 1: averaged twenty six points per game. He was like, you know, 323 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: early thirties, AI is still AI. You bring some offense in. 324 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 1: There's other people that say that that move was like 325 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:16,919 Speaker 1: throwing in the towel on the era. AI was in 326 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 1: an expiring contract. You had the summer of twenty ten looming, 327 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 1: which is obviously the Lebron decision year. And I mean maybe. 328 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 2: They thought they were going to get Lebron. Joe d 329 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:31,879 Speaker 2: was a bad mouff up, but I don't know if 330 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 2: they're gonna be able to get he was gonna get 331 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 2: that up. The best thing a part of a party 332 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 2: had about it. He was coming from Cleveland. 333 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:41,159 Speaker 1: They thought they were getting one version of AI. They 334 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: got the other version and It was the first time 335 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 1: in his career that he averaged under twenty points per game, 336 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 1: and the Pistons since that trade have had an over 337 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:55,399 Speaker 1: five hundred season exactly one time, and it was like 338 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 1: a forty two and forty. 339 00:17:57,720 --> 00:17:59,959 Speaker 2: This is when this is when the world turned out 340 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:04,399 Speaker 2: on Ai because around this isn't around the time they 341 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 2: asked Ai if he would come off the bench yep, 342 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 2: or if the best version of him would be coming 343 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 2: off the bench as to score. And he doesn't want 344 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,920 Speaker 2: to take you know, his diminished role so to speak, 345 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:18,679 Speaker 2: you know what I mean. He still thinks he's the 346 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:22,199 Speaker 2: Ai of you know, two thousand. So I think this 347 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 2: is also an important thing to notice that this is 348 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 2: kind of when you know, the NBA insider you know 349 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 2: in the world kind of like turned on Ai and 350 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:34,399 Speaker 2: made him like a pariah who didn't want to sail 351 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:38,439 Speaker 2: I guess, you know, off gently into the sunset. Sucked 352 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:41,199 Speaker 2: as a fan, as a purists, as a as an 353 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 2: NBA player, has sucked to watch one of the greats 354 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 2: get treated like that. And I don't even think he 355 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 2: was on his way out. 356 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:53,359 Speaker 1: And it actually wasn't the first time that they tried 357 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:56,880 Speaker 1: to blow up the Nucleus. I was confirmed in twenty 358 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,679 Speaker 1: fifteen by the Detroit Free Press and Kobe Bryant that 359 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 1: the Lakers and the Pistons had agreed on a deal 360 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 1: after the two thousand and seventh season that would have 361 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 1: sent Kobe Bryant to the Detroit Pistons for Rip Hamilton, 362 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: tash On, Prince Emir Johnson in a first round pick. 363 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:17,920 Speaker 2: And that's why Mag Kobe. That was mag. 364 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:21,920 Speaker 1: That was mag Kobe, and Kobe used his no trade clause, 365 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,919 Speaker 1: And yeah, Kobe could have been on the Detroit Pistons 366 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:26,920 Speaker 1: if he didn't have a no trade clause. And that 367 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 1: brings us to our next subject, which is the Los 368 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: Angeles Lakers. And they make two big swings in about 369 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: a four year period. One of them really hits, one 370 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: of them really doesn't. So we're gonna start with the 371 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:43,679 Speaker 1: one that really does hit. So we just mentioned that 372 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 1: after the two thousand and seven season, Kobe publicly demands 373 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 1: a trade. There's an ESPN article. He goes on Stephen A. 374 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:52,119 Speaker 1: Smith's radio show and says, I would like. 375 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:55,119 Speaker 2: To remember remember how the rants from practice the ex 376 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 2: in social media. You got to get some men in here. Yeah, 377 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 2: you can't do nothing with this shit. Yeah, you know 378 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 2: what I mean, that's the Yeah, that was mad Being. 379 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 2: That had to happen. 380 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 1: But is that was that wasn't that older being? I'm 381 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 1: talking about two thousand and seven. This is after Shaq leaves, 382 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 1: they don't win a playoff series, they don't make the playoffs. 383 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 1: One year Shaq wins the ring in Miami. So this 384 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 1: is two thousands after the two thousand and seventh season 385 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 1: where he does this whole tirade. 386 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 2: Man Still yeah, that's it's still mad Being. There's two spots, 387 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:29,880 Speaker 2: there's two spots of mad Bean, but yeah, still mad Being. 388 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 1: So he goes on steven A's radio show and he 389 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 1: says he would like to be traded. Steven A asked 390 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: if there's anything the Lakers could do to change his mind, 391 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: and he says, no, I just want them to do 392 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:45,440 Speaker 1: the right thing. And you can't really blame him right 393 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 1: for asking for a trade. He's thirty, Shack had just 394 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 1: won a title in Miami. Uh, this is when Shaq's 395 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 1: doing I think this is around the time when Shack's 396 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: riding the raps and he's performing at the clubs. About 397 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: Kobe not having a ring. 398 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 2: Tell me, I'm tell me I'm up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 399 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 2: yeah yeah. 400 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:08,359 Speaker 1: But ultimately, the Lakers never found a trade that Kobe 401 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 1: would agree to. But then come February of two thousand 402 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 1: and eight, at the trade deadline, less than a year 403 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:17,119 Speaker 1: after he publicly demands a trade, they do land a 404 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:22,160 Speaker 1: trade for All Star big man Pau Gasol. Yeah, and 405 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 1: they trade his brother Mark, but they didn't really give 406 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,360 Speaker 1: up anything. And if you go back and read, there's 407 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:31,439 Speaker 1: a Greg Popovich quote from Sports Illustrated where he thought 408 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,639 Speaker 1: like the Lakers completely fleeced them and said that the 409 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,679 Speaker 1: NBA there should have been like an oversight committee in 410 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 1: the NBA because a trade like that can't happen. But 411 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 1: it turned out it was a pretty fair trade. I 412 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: mean Pal's brothers, No, no joke. 413 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 2: Papa's mad because you know, I put that guy got 414 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 2: in his window. His championship wind up bringing it. Definitely, 415 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,200 Speaker 2: you tried Papa's You know, you didn't think we knowniced, 416 00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 2: but we did. 417 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,439 Speaker 1: We know what that was about, and that's the swing 418 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 1: ends up being right on the money with Gasol. The 419 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 1: Lakers make the finals for three straight years from two 420 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:10,160 Speaker 1: thousand and eight to twenty ten, and Kobe adds rings 421 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 1: four and five to his belt. So that's a prime 422 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,680 Speaker 1: example again of a swing that if that doesn't hit 423 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 1: and the Lakers get bounced again in the playoffs, like 424 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,200 Speaker 1: Kobe's probably out of. 425 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:27,919 Speaker 2: LA high probability, considering that some of the people who 426 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 2: if we talk to in the front office and some 427 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 2: of the players, you know, some of the deals you 428 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 2: know that people hear about in social media that he 429 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 2: may or may not been linked to high probability that 430 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 2: he doesn't stay his entire time in Los Angeles. 431 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 1: So then in twoenty twelve, right, the Lakers get bounced 432 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,880 Speaker 1: in the twenty eleven playoffs, they lose to the MAVs, 433 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,199 Speaker 1: who end up winning the title. Remember that was a 434 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 1: super ugly end of the series. I think that's when 435 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: by them he tries to take Bret his head off. 436 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 2: Mm hmm. We wasn't mad at it as Laker fans. 437 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 2: We should have should have did that ship in a 438 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,879 Speaker 2: couple of games previous and he wouldn't have been acting 439 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 2: like he can tip through there like that. I remember 440 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,359 Speaker 2: watching that series. We needed that foul earlier. But you know, 441 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 2: I ain't mad at a b He crashed out, and 442 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:20,359 Speaker 2: that was the young people say yeah, yeah, I. 443 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,640 Speaker 1: Don't know if they ever put the car. I don't 444 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,439 Speaker 1: know if they ever put the car back together after that. 445 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,360 Speaker 2: I think that was kind of definitely not this, Yeah, 446 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:30,960 Speaker 2: definitely not. We showed up next time with a parent. 447 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 1: We gotta find him. 448 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 2: I would love to talk to that. He's a great 449 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,159 Speaker 2: forgotten Say if you see this, somebody at Andrew buying him, 450 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 2: If anybody you know, tell them we looking for him. 451 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:42,880 Speaker 2: Reach out to the forgotten season spage. We would love 452 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 2: to sit down and talk about your your your outstanding career. 453 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 1: Sir Andrew Bonham was like arguably the like second best 454 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 1: be I. 455 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 2: Worked out way ab went during my time with the 456 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,199 Speaker 2: Lakers on the G League team and in the summer. 457 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 2: He was nice. He worked out with Kareem Yeah. He 458 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,160 Speaker 2: is a good touch. Yeah yeah, a good touch and move, 459 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 2: you know, get up and down a little bit like 460 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,399 Speaker 2: he what Andrew Biden wasn't the problem. Maybe his knees was, 461 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 2: but you know, I mean, I know they questioned his 462 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:14,920 Speaker 2: love for the game, but I mean he was doing 463 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 2: what he was supposed to do. Sometimes he texts another 464 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 2: coach or a change of scenery to invigorate a young 465 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 2: person's mind. 466 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 1: So the bying them crashout definitely leads to this next 467 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 1: swing July twenty twelve. In August twenty twelve, first they 468 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 1: trade for Steve Nash and then they trade for Dwight 469 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 1: and you know, this is one of the first true 470 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 1: super teams that we supposedly have Kobe, Dwight, Nash, and 471 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:47,320 Speaker 1: pow Gasol. Around this time too, there's a lot of 472 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 1: coaching drama with the Lakers. You have the brief Mike 473 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,920 Speaker 1: Brown stint where he comes in that gets fired. Phil 474 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,240 Speaker 1: announces to the team in the twenty eleven playoffs that 475 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,120 Speaker 1: he has cancer, so he steps away from the team. 476 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 1: That's when they bring in Mike Brown. But then he's 477 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 1: ready to come back, and they hired D'Antoni instead, And 478 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: a lot of people thought that it should be filled 479 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 1: to coach that team with Dwight, Nash, Kobe, and Pou, 480 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,960 Speaker 1: but it ends up being D'Antoni. Do you have any 481 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:24,119 Speaker 1: insider knowledge just into that whole Phil in and out, 482 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 1: Mike Brown, D'Antoni kind of carousel. 483 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 2: I don't have any insider knowledge, but you know what 484 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 2: I from as a as a fan and as a 485 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 2: part of the organization. It just seemed like a weak 486 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 2: move anybody want Mike D'Antoni. No disrespecting Mike Danantoni and 487 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,119 Speaker 2: the system and what he's brought to the game of basketball, 488 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 2: but it just didn't seem as a right fit from 489 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,440 Speaker 2: the Lakers. I know, coming from Mike Brown, he's a 490 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:55,879 Speaker 2: defensive mind. To guy, I want to practice three hours 491 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 2: every day. They feel like they need a players coach, 492 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 2: but the damn players coach was philled accent and when 493 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,639 Speaker 2: should have waited for whatever PJ had to do to 494 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 2: get back in there. Only PJ can come in and 495 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,400 Speaker 2: clean message like that up. You know, at the time 496 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 2: before he got in his ways and a little bit older, 497 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 2: you know, things change, but you know that's what he does, 498 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,119 Speaker 2: you know, And that was a perfect situation for him 499 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:19,440 Speaker 2: to come back in there and do some of that 500 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,680 Speaker 2: zen master ish, and they wasted it away on no 501 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 2: disrespect Mike D'Antoni, who really didn't really he really didn't 502 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:29,639 Speaker 2: do nothing for the soil man. He really was an 503 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 2: outsider looking in you know that. You know, It's just 504 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,679 Speaker 2: he always looked like the Phoenix coach over there. Yeah, right, 505 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 2: he always just looked like the dude the sons coach 506 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 2: over there coaching the Lakers. That's what That's what I 507 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,400 Speaker 2: always looked at as a as when I think about 508 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 2: my family fan name, it's like Karl Malone and the 509 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:52,120 Speaker 2: Lakers a jersey. You don't really consider him a Laker, 510 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 2: you say, like you preface it by saying Karl Malone 511 00:26:55,280 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 2: in a Lakers jersey. So it's one of those things. Well, 512 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 2: West caust people, it's territorial, Dylan, we territorial play that. 513 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 1: Hey, I know West is different, so that that move 514 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 1: kind of not only does it not work, it probably 515 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:19,199 Speaker 1: leads to Kobe tearing his achilles to both the trades 516 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,879 Speaker 1: and then getting d'antonian Nash breaks his leg two games 517 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 1: into the season. He misses thirty games. Dwight's been on 518 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 1: the record he had back surgery like right before that 519 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 1: and probably wasn't ready, but rushes back and it just 520 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 1: it just doesn't work. And then at the end of 521 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 1: that season, the Lakers are kind of on the fringe 522 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:45,120 Speaker 1: of making the playoffs, and Kobe in his peak Kobe Mamba. 523 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,640 Speaker 1: You know, if everybody else, I'm just gonna do this myself. 524 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 1: I don't know if you know this, but if you 525 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 1: look at like the ten games before he tore his 526 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:59,199 Speaker 1: achilles and what the what the minute total was forty 527 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 1: seven two, forty seven, forty one, forty eight. And then 528 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 1: at the time of the achilles snap, he had played 529 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 1: forty five minutes. 530 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:10,720 Speaker 2: Who is protecting Bean? 531 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:13,879 Speaker 1: Well, that probably would have been Phil that would have 532 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 1: just said, like, no, no, dude, you're not gonna play 533 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,879 Speaker 1: forty eight minutes a night at thirty was punking d'An Touni. 534 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,479 Speaker 2: He was punking them coaches, whoever came in there. There 535 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 2: wasn't PJ. He was punking. He was punking Riddy, Tom Janovich, 536 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 2: he was punking Mike Brown. He's punking basically everybody. And 537 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:32,960 Speaker 2: that came in there, there wasn't PJ. And rightfully, so 538 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 2: that's the guy you won five titles with. That's the guy, 539 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 2: his idol coach. You know what I mean, You can't 540 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 2: be mad at the guy. And at the end of 541 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 2: the day, if those coaches let him punk down and 542 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 2: didn't protect Bean, you know what I mean, they have 543 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 2: to They have to fall on the sword at the 544 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 2: end of the day. 545 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,600 Speaker 1: So twenty four to twenty sixteen, the Lakers are are horrible. 546 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 1: Twenty one, twenty seven seventeen wins. Uh So, I just 547 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 1: thought that was super interesting thing. 548 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 2: In that. 549 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 1: What three year window, there's two massive swings that they take, 550 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,479 Speaker 1: and you see how these swings can pan out. One 551 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 1: leads to two championships. One leads to Kobe tearing his 552 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 1: achilles and the end of his Lakers career not being 553 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 1: met with any team success. I think the Lakers probably 554 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: also did that with Westbrook, like three years ago. Right, 555 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 1: they win the title in twenty uh and then the 556 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: next season for some reason, it's it's not going as 557 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 1: they wanted to, and then they trade everything for Westbrook. 558 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 1: And here we are now where it's three consecutive years 559 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,480 Speaker 1: where the Lakers get bounce in the playoffs. 560 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 2: Lakers been known to swing, but I respect this. Yeah, yeah, 561 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,719 Speaker 2: they win. They've had success with free agency out here 562 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 2: since Kareem abdulah Jabbar. 563 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,320 Speaker 1: You know, Lakers can also they can wiggle too. They 564 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 1: can kind of get they could they could slot some cash, 565 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 1: use their kind of Laker or to get out of 566 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: those predicaments. The next wing and miss happens in Houston, Texas. 567 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 1: The Houston Rockets win back to back titles in nineteen 568 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 1: ninety four. In nineteen ninety five, they win that with 569 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 1: a Keem leading the charge. Clyde Drexler comes in for 570 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 1: the second championship in nineteen ninety five, great supporting cast 571 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 1: Robert Ory, Sam Cassell. But then in nineteen ninety six 572 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 1: they get swept by the Sonics, your former team. A 573 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 1: lot of people point towards that as like, you know, 574 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 1: I was reading that. They say in ninety four and 575 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 1: ninety five, the biggest asterisk quote unquote on the Rockets 576 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 1: championships is that there was no Michael Jordan there. But 577 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 1: other people point out that they actually also avoided the 578 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 1: Sonics in that two year window, and that was the 579 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 1: team that really gave them problems. They had nobody that 580 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:53,920 Speaker 1: could guard. 581 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 2: Sean kemp. 582 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: Ori was too small or he was a small forward. 583 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,840 Speaker 1: So then after that nineteen ninety six sweep, they make 584 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 1: their big swing. They trade Ri and Sam Cassell for 585 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 1: Charles Barkley, and Barkley is in his early to mid 586 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,480 Speaker 1: thirties but still has a lot of game, and that 587 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,480 Speaker 1: is their big swing. They bring in Charles Barkley ninety seven, 588 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:25,040 Speaker 1: they lose to Utah in six games. They do win 589 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 1: fifty seven games and Barkley had a great, great quote. 590 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 1: He said that they mortgage their depth, and Barkley described 591 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 1: to Sports Illustrated that the Rockets were like were thin 592 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:43,640 Speaker 1: as a supermodel, but not nearly as pretty. So they 593 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 1: went all in on Barkley, Drexler and Alajuan. What's your 594 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 1: analysis on this because a lot of people say they 595 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: did it to avoid the songs. They couldn't get past 596 00:31:55,840 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 1: the jazz in an alternate universe, could you see that 597 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 1: big three of Barkley, Hakeem and Clyde winning a title? 598 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 1: Or do you think this was the wrong swing to 599 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 1: make getting off of guys like Robert Rorrey and Sam 600 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:15,760 Speaker 1: Cassell who would have a lot of good basketball left 601 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 1: in their career and both also win more titles. 602 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 2: Damn, I want to be unfair, but sometimes life isn't 603 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 2: always fair, and the hindsight is twenty twenty. We can't 604 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 2: really think that we would who would know that Robert 605 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 2: orry would go on to win five will have very 606 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 2: many five thousand championships and Sam Cassell, although he did 607 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 2: have some championship pedigree in that city. See this is 608 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 2: what happens, and this is the old league where some 609 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 2: of this nostalgia is bringing back like five Slammer Jama 610 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 2: back to Houston with Clyde and and and Hakeem. Right 611 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 2: then you figure and you're gonna get Charles Barkley in there. 612 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 2: You know, you're thinking you're gonna get some semblance of 613 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 2: Charles Barkley. Ah, No, like these are all Hall of famers, Darling, 614 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,480 Speaker 2: you're not. You're not talking about you're not bringing in. 615 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 2: You're not swinging for for for for dumped for dumpster trucks. 616 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,560 Speaker 1: No, but your mortgaging your depth. And that's kind of 617 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 1: what the Suns did. They get Kevin durapas what it is. 618 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 2: But that's always the move when you make this move, right, 619 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,600 Speaker 2: it's always a mortgage in the depth or something that. 620 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:38,880 Speaker 2: So you know it's a they didn't really. 621 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 1: Crack, Like they didn't crack, but they were good. 622 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 2: And you're one. 623 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 1: In the fifty three games that Barkley played, they were 624 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 1: forty one and twelve. 625 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,280 Speaker 2: I remember that. I remember that year I had. I 626 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 2: remember Michael There's playing. That's when you had to play. 627 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,240 Speaker 2: That's when Barkley was playing in the Jordan's Yeah, go figure, 628 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 2: I remember that year. That's what that they That team 629 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 2: was cool, but for what they wanted. It was a 630 00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,440 Speaker 2: little they felt a little short, so it might just 631 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:08,799 Speaker 2: have to be a miss. At the end of the day, yep. 632 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:10,359 Speaker 2: Ninety eight. 633 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,319 Speaker 1: They lose in round one to the Jazz. They were 634 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:17,239 Speaker 1: up to one and they had a chance to close 635 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,840 Speaker 1: out Utah in Game four, but then Barkley tore his 636 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:23,319 Speaker 1: triceps when Greg Foster. 637 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:23,879 Speaker 2: Landed on him. 638 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 1: They were outscored forty to sixty immediately after the injury, 639 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:31,320 Speaker 1: and the series was effectively over after that. 640 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:35,759 Speaker 2: And that's when Chuck was racking up injuries. Yeah right, 641 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:37,680 Speaker 2: I feel like you know what I mean. The round 642 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:41,200 Speaker 2: Maunder rebound had took a course on the human body, 643 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,239 Speaker 2: and that's when he had the funny style quad roll up. 644 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 2: I think, Achilles, you know, need this back this. I 645 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:51,080 Speaker 2: think this was just the accumulation of an NBA career. 646 00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,279 Speaker 2: So you know, they leveraged, they tried, you know, and 647 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,920 Speaker 2: remember the rules changed. Here's here's another thing about that. 648 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 2: Around that time, rules change which nullified a big part 649 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 2: of what Charles Barkley's game was was successful. You could 650 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,440 Speaker 2: no longer just pound the ball out for ten to 651 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:14,879 Speaker 2: twelve seconds out of the shot clock. Go back and look, 652 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 2: do your research there was a rules change. It was 653 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,680 Speaker 2: called the Charles Barkley rule where you could no longer 654 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:23,640 Speaker 2: one person because remember Charles just used to sit and 655 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 2: pound on the block for like two and twelve seconds. 656 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 1: The post up you can't post up for like more. 657 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:30,280 Speaker 1: I think it's five seconds. 658 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 2: You see what I'm saying. That took away a big 659 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 2: part of his game. Right now, he can't get close 660 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:41,160 Speaker 2: to that twenty point score. He's more down at fifteen fourteen, 661 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 2: can't get by guys. Guys are bigger, stronger than Sean 662 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,520 Speaker 2: Camps and the more athletic fours are popping up. So 663 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:52,000 Speaker 2: there's an asterisk as to these things, as it always 664 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 2: is in the league. And if that rule change changed, 665 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 2: that whole course of what that season may or may 666 00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:01,560 Speaker 2: not look like for the Houston Rockets deep cuts, deep cuts, 667 00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:03,040 Speaker 2: cutsp cut. 668 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:08,960 Speaker 1: So after ninety eight Clyde retires and goes to coaches 669 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,840 Speaker 1: alma mater of Houston, they bring in Scottie Pippen. This 670 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,520 Speaker 1: is after the Bulls win the championship. At ninety eight, 671 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:20,520 Speaker 1: MJ retires, Barkley signs a one year, one million dollar deal. 672 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:23,680 Speaker 1: Kind of a wink wink. Houston says that they would 673 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,360 Speaker 1: bag him after that, and the reason he takes that 674 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,200 Speaker 1: is to open up cap space for Scottie Pippen, who 675 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 1: signs a five year, sixty seven million dollar deal with 676 00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,759 Speaker 1: the Rockets. And it kind of seemed like from day one, 677 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 1: Scotty came in with that kind of stank face and 678 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:43,440 Speaker 1: that bulls energy Reserve Rockets player Matt Bullard said about 679 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:46,280 Speaker 1: Pippen that he really never tried to make an effort 680 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,239 Speaker 1: to be a Houston Rocket. He was coming and thinking, hey, 681 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,080 Speaker 1: I'm Michael Jordan. I mean not really Michael Jordan, but 682 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,800 Speaker 1: I'm Scottie Pippen, and the rest of us could feel that. 683 00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:58,359 Speaker 1: Those type of things still stick with me. Looking back 684 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 1: on all the teammates I've had, I would say that 685 00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:05,200 Speaker 1: Scottie Pippen was not one of my favorite teammates because 686 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:07,719 Speaker 1: when I did play with him, he was trying to 687 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,239 Speaker 1: be He wasn't really trying to be a Rocket, he 688 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 1: was trying to be the man and it didn't work. 689 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:17,280 Speaker 1: And Scotty, reflecting on that year, says, I probably should 690 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 1: have listened to Michael a year ago when he said 691 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:23,880 Speaker 1: that Charles will never win a championship because he doesn't 692 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:28,040 Speaker 1: show any dedication, and I think to this day Barkley 693 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 1: and Scotty don't mess with each other. 694 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:35,040 Speaker 2: I mean, both things can be true. You know, Scott, 695 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:38,280 Speaker 2: Scotty could have came in there thinking he was Michael Jordan, 696 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:39,799 Speaker 2: and shit, he had every right to come in there 697 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:41,560 Speaker 2: and think he was Michael Jordan at the end of 698 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:45,759 Speaker 2: the day. But I don't know who's supposed to win 699 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:54,520 Speaker 2: Matt Bullard over. Yeah, that's true, but it was. He 700 00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,000 Speaker 2: was a fan favorite. Yes, he was serviced to go 701 00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:59,440 Speaker 2: for the hugon Rockets. He was like a good rocket. 702 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:01,560 Speaker 1: He was a Rockets lifer. 703 00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:01,799 Speaker 2: Man. 704 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:05,040 Speaker 1: You gotta you got to show some respect to the 705 00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:07,640 Speaker 1: dude that's been there for ten years. It was there 706 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,719 Speaker 1: for a championship and I get, I get it, like 707 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:16,480 Speaker 1: you don't have to, but nobody wants that energy. And 708 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,560 Speaker 1: you're not Scottie Pippen from the mid nineties anymore. Also, 709 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:21,000 Speaker 1: you're old Scott. 710 00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:26,400 Speaker 2: What was Matt Buller's energy? Was it welcoming? 711 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:29,479 Speaker 1: I mean, Matt Bullard was probably just a role player 712 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:31,920 Speaker 1: that wanted, you know, gave good Maybe. I mean it 713 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:32,800 Speaker 1: was probably welcoming. 714 00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,680 Speaker 2: Who knows, We don't know. 715 00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:39,360 Speaker 1: I've heard a lot I've heard a lot about Scottie 716 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:40,960 Speaker 1: Pippen his. 717 00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:45,520 Speaker 2: Energy as as opposed to Matt Buller. Whether the openness 718 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:47,840 Speaker 2: of Matt Buller would maybe the cause of people acting 719 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:51,640 Speaker 2: funny style. I've heard that. I concurr and Matt Buller's 720 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:53,800 Speaker 2: probably a great guy to be honest with. He's probably 721 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:57,040 Speaker 2: a Houston Rockers lifer for a reason. She's got a 722 00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:00,600 Speaker 2: nice face, no freaky, looks like a sweet guy. You'll 723 00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,160 Speaker 2: show you where the best barbecue spot was in Houston, 724 00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:05,360 Speaker 2: wherever you need to move around, look like a good veteran. 725 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,319 Speaker 2: I ain't mad at Bullert. I'm just a Scottie Pipping guy, 726 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:12,720 Speaker 2: and and the more ish I can block from Scottie Pipping, 727 00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,040 Speaker 2: I'll try my best at some At some points, I'm 728 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:19,120 Speaker 2: in a good mood. Today. I'm gonna take what astray 729 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,799 Speaker 2: for Scottie and it's going through a lot right now. 730 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:24,440 Speaker 1: He definitely is going through a lot. 731 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:28,560 Speaker 2: Man. Yeah, so you know for Free was love from 732 00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:32,840 Speaker 2: Forgotten Season Scotti. I don't know how welcoming the environment was. 733 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 2: It's definitely a difference from Chicago to Houston. Maybe he 734 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:41,560 Speaker 2: had a culture shock. I don't know. We're all humans 735 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:42,880 Speaker 2: at the end of the day people. 736 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,120 Speaker 1: I mean Scotty Scotty Pippen is a good example of that. 737 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,400 Speaker 1: Even if you have six rings, you know, a crazy 738 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,080 Speaker 1: girl can still ruin your life, ain't that right? 739 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:56,880 Speaker 2: J mc facts. I don't have a crazy girl though, So. 740 00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:00,239 Speaker 1: That's the end of our our swinging miss section. There's 741 00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:02,040 Speaker 1: a couple of asterisks that I think are just like 742 00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:07,400 Speaker 1: more so funny. The Gary Payton for Ray Allen Sonics 743 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:11,880 Speaker 1: and Bucks trade in two thousand and three. Obviously, the 744 00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:15,400 Speaker 1: Sonics had their storied history in the nineties with Gary Payton, 745 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:18,480 Speaker 1: they go to the finals in nineteen ninety six. The Bucks, 746 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,160 Speaker 1: on the other hand, have that Eastern Conference Finals run 747 00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:23,799 Speaker 1: in two thousand and one with Ray Allen, which may 748 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:27,920 Speaker 1: or may not have been dictated by crooked referees. We 749 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:29,759 Speaker 1: also have to mention that George carl who was the 750 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:32,040 Speaker 1: coach of the Sonics, is now at the head of 751 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:34,800 Speaker 1: the Bucks helm. He's not only the head coach, he 752 00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:38,120 Speaker 1: is the general manager as well. And they make this 753 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:42,560 Speaker 1: trade Ray Allen for Gary Payton. You go back and 754 00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:45,759 Speaker 1: look at it, and the rationale I guess from the 755 00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:50,000 Speaker 1: Bucks standpoint is that they got Desmond Mason in the deal. 756 00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:54,279 Speaker 1: Who was a young high flyer, was showing flashes that 757 00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,239 Speaker 1: maybe he could be a star. And they had young 758 00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,279 Speaker 1: Mike Red already in Milwaukee, and they felt that GP, 759 00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,719 Speaker 1: Desmond Mason, and Michael Red maybe could have done a 760 00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:04,360 Speaker 1: little something. 761 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:05,120 Speaker 3: Uh. 762 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:09,160 Speaker 1: There's also rumors that Ray Allen, George Carl didn't get along. 763 00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:09,600 Speaker 2: But. 764 00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:16,120 Speaker 1: Didn't really amount to extending any of those eras. But 765 00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:20,239 Speaker 1: I think it is a pretty funny swing that the 766 00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,640 Speaker 1: front offices took that didn't really make a ton of sense. 767 00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,560 Speaker 1: I mean, from the sonic standpoint, they got off GP. 768 00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:31,040 Speaker 1: GP ends up leaving Milwaukee after that offseason anyway, and 769 00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:34,360 Speaker 1: they get you know, four years of prime Ray Allen, 770 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:36,839 Speaker 1: which they don't do much with They make Round two 771 00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:40,120 Speaker 1: of the playoffs. But I thought that was just a 772 00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:40,799 Speaker 1: funny swing. 773 00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,680 Speaker 2: That was like a definitely a funny swing west end 774 00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,480 Speaker 2: the prime Ray. Maybe they didn't want to pay GP, 775 00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:50,560 Speaker 2: you know, they know he was gonna be won some money. 776 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:52,880 Speaker 2: You know, maybe they just thought his time was up 777 00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:56,239 Speaker 2: in Seattle. You know, there's different gms coming in and 778 00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,959 Speaker 2: out of Seattle. I think ownership was still ownership change 779 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:08,240 Speaker 2: in Seattle. I don't show I think by that time Starbucks, Sonics, 780 00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:11,000 Speaker 2: the Sheltz about the team by that by that time, 781 00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:14,120 Speaker 2: so you know, ownership chains. You know, dudes come in, 782 00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:16,520 Speaker 2: I don't want to move in another direction. Maybe they 783 00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:20,520 Speaker 2: don't want the brash talking East Oakland point Guard anymore. 784 00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:22,919 Speaker 2: You know, they want to come in with a clean 785 00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:26,320 Speaker 2: cut Ray Allen. You know that's this this gonna you know, 786 00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:31,280 Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, I guess. If I'm gonna be swinging 787 00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,239 Speaker 2: and making that type of move, those are the type 788 00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:34,520 Speaker 2: of things I'm gonna be thinking about. 789 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:37,200 Speaker 1: It's a fair it's a fair hack for sure. 790 00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:41,200 Speaker 2: So that that that's it. I think. 791 00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:43,680 Speaker 1: Uh, you know, we I mentioned at the top, but 792 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,880 Speaker 1: you see teams today like the the Lillard swing for 793 00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:49,560 Speaker 1: the Bucks and the Meals swing for the Songs. It's 794 00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:53,280 Speaker 1: too early to tell like how how those will ultimately 795 00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:58,719 Speaker 1: end out, but it's gonna go one of two ways. Right, 796 00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:01,799 Speaker 1: You're either probably going to go back to the promised Land, 797 00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:05,640 Speaker 1: or you're going to be looking at maybe Giannis and 798 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:10,640 Speaker 1: Booker and Katie on different teams in a few years. 799 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:14,480 Speaker 1: But these are the these are the moves that you know, 800 00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:17,600 Speaker 1: you just saw. Thirty years later, twenty years later, people 801 00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,200 Speaker 1: still talk about and fans point at at you know, 802 00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:23,520 Speaker 1: if this move didn't happen, we want to win this championship, 803 00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:27,240 Speaker 1: or if they made a different move, maybe our whole 804 00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,440 Speaker 1: team doesn't collapse. So these are the things that are 805 00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:32,640 Speaker 1: so interesting and make me glad that I'm not a 806 00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:36,120 Speaker 1: general manager that actually has to make these decisions. I'm 807 00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,239 Speaker 1: just a dude that can talk about them and say 808 00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:40,160 Speaker 1: that I wouldn't have done it because I'm smarter than 809 00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:40,680 Speaker 1: the gms. 810 00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,239 Speaker 2: You know, facts is either make these moves or do 811 00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:49,160 Speaker 2: the OKC thing and have all the picks and wait 812 00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:51,439 Speaker 2: around for a bunch of years and helped those picks 813 00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:53,719 Speaker 2: pan out. But those picks got a pan out, and 814 00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:55,960 Speaker 2: for some of these markets, you can't get that off 815 00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:59,000 Speaker 2: in every market in NBA. Some of these people want 816 00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:01,719 Speaker 2: to win now. They want at least have an opportunity 817 00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,040 Speaker 2: to win now because it's a lot of legacy markets 818 00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:05,640 Speaker 2: in the NBA and they're sleeping now. 819 00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:11,640 Speaker 1: I also, you got again, we said it before, but 820 00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:13,680 Speaker 1: you got to put some You gotta have respect for 821 00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:16,800 Speaker 1: the teams that actually make the swings versus like the 822 00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:18,800 Speaker 1: teams like the Bulls now that are just kind of 823 00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:22,760 Speaker 1: treading in mediocrity and are content with finishing. 824 00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:28,440 Speaker 2: They just they ain't really can't, got no fighting skills. 825 00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:32,680 Speaker 1: They're just swinging now, all right, j Mac, this was great. 826 00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:35,960 Speaker 1: We'll be back next week with a guest interview. We'll 827 00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:38,719 Speaker 1: see who it is, but appreciate you guys listening. 828 00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:39,600 Speaker 2: We'll catch you next week. 829 00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:01,560 Speaker 3: Four