1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:26,080 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:28,639 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is all they called 6 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer 7 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 1: Paul Mission controlled decand here in spirit. Most importantly, you 8 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 1: are you. You are here, and that makes this stuff 9 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:44,240 Speaker 1: they don't want you to know. We are delving into 10 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:49,839 Speaker 1: a true unsolved mystery today. If you're a younger person, 11 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: you might not have heard of John Parsons Wheeler, the 12 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: Third unless you saw the recent Netflix reboot of Unsolved Mysteries. 13 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:04,319 Speaker 1: It's a story that largely disappeared from mass media headlines 14 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: in a very weird way. I mean, you've heard of 15 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: Eliza Lamb, but have you heard of John Parsons Wheeler. 16 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: Here are the facts. First things first, whether or not 17 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 1: you have ever heard of this man. If you live 18 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: in the US, his career has probably impacted you in 19 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 1: some way. Uh. He's one of those guys who it 20 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: seems like since his early days he was destined for 21 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: the heights of the military political class. Oh yeah, an 22 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 1: absolute heavyweight and and a sharp guy to boot. John 23 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: Parsons where the third Jack two his pals, was born 24 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:46,679 Speaker 1: on December four in Laredo, Texas, and he was to 25 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 1: some degree kind of destined to follow in the footsteps 26 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 1: of those that came before him and his family line. Uh, 27 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: and was in fact groomed for the type of illustrious 28 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: political and military career many would only ever dream of. 29 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: He came from a long line of these career military men, 30 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 1: including one relative who served in both the Confederate Army 31 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: and then later the United States Army. Yeah, he ended 32 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: up going to the US Military Academy, which you may 33 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:20,920 Speaker 1: know as West Point. That's the way it's generally referred to. 34 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 1: Very prestigious place if you're going to go that route. 35 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: And then he was a fire control platoon leader in 36 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: New Jersey back in the middle late sixties, and he 37 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 1: ended up getting a Bachelor of Science degree from that institution. Yeah. 38 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: Important note about his classmates his cohort at West Point. 39 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: Many of these men would go on to lose their 40 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: lives in Vietnam, and his experiences with the war had 41 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 1: a tremendous influence on his career, his personal beliefs, and 42 00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: possibly debatably, the end of his life. UH. This class 43 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 1: at West Point is documented in a book written by 44 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: former Washington Post journalist named Rick Atkinson. The name of 45 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 1: the book is The Long Gray Line. This book spends 46 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,360 Speaker 1: a lot of time on Wheeler himself if you read it, 47 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: and Wheeler had a copy of it at his home. 48 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 1: He served as a staff officer in Vietnam. He served 49 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: with the Office of the Secretary Defense. He served with 50 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: the Joint Staff before he left service in one His 51 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: schooling is particularly interesting because it was his gateway to 52 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: the upper echelons of American society. He enrolled in Harvard 53 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: Business School in sixty nine, got a master's in Business admin. 54 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: He got a degree in law from Yale in seventy 55 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 1: and he worked with fancy law firms in d C. 56 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 1: The ones that kind of blur the line between private 57 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: and public power. UH. They're often called white shoe law firms. 58 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 1: You may hear them referred to as such. He served 59 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: as a clerk for George E. McKinnon. He was a 60 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 1: high level official for the SEC Securities and Exchange Commission. 61 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 1: This guy had his finger in a lot of pies. Uh, 62 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:23,839 Speaker 1: he was during this time at the SEC side. Note, 63 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: he was investigating major cases of insider trading. So, long 64 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: story short, he was accepted by the often invisible ruling 65 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: class of this country and he moved extensively in this circle. Well, 66 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 1: and he's also if anyone knew of his work, if 67 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,479 Speaker 1: you're imagining the people on the other side of those investigations, 68 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: he was already potentially making enemies just putting it out there. Yeah, 69 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: great point, Matt. Let's let's talk a little bit about 70 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 1: his career, because the space ace he occupies is a 71 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 1: bit alien, I think to a lot of the general public. 72 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:11,480 Speaker 1: You could describe him as a defense consultant, but that 73 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:14,599 Speaker 1: is a very vague term. Yeah, it seems almost like 74 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: a gray area kind of where it could encompass a 75 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 1: whole lot of things that maybe aren't public knowledge. Yeah, exactly. No. 76 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:27,359 Speaker 1: Al So, he was known for working in that often unexamined, 77 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: liminal space between the FEDS and private companies and then 78 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:36,720 Speaker 1: charities and nonprofits, and of course, as long time listeners 79 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 1: know some of those organizations, not all, but some of 80 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,919 Speaker 1: them are much more closely related than they would have 81 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 1: you believe, according to you know, their f a q 82 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: s on their websites. UH. For most of the people 83 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 1: in the US. Wheeler's most notable, well known work is 84 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 1: his assistance in the construction of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial 85 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: in DC's instrumental in making that happen. UH. He worked 86 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 1: for a cavalcade of different institutions and organizations, Amtrak, Mothers 87 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: Against Drunk Driving, three different three different Republican administrations, Reagan 88 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:20,600 Speaker 1: and then Bush, and then Bush again when that guy 89 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:25,119 Speaker 1: put his son into office. And he also worked for 90 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:28,359 Speaker 1: the Miter Corporation. Remember that last one. It's going to 91 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: be important later. His career was not without controversy, especially 92 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 1: moving in and out of so many institutions. Maybe we 93 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 1: can talk a little bit about his roles with charities 94 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:46,279 Speaker 1: and with UH with businesses as well. He was extremely 95 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 1: active in various nonprofits, and I think that's probably the 96 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:53,480 Speaker 1: way to put it, very specialized nonprofits. UH. And he 97 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 1: was the founder and CEO of this thing called Vietnam 98 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: Children's Fund. By many accounts, at least if you look online, 99 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: appears to be a great organization, at least the forward 100 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: facing things about it. He worked with President Bush, like 101 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 1: we said, the father to create this thing called the 102 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: Earth Conservation Corps. He also served as president CEO of 103 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: the Deafness Research Foundation. I mean, just listen to what 104 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:24,119 Speaker 1: we're saying here. This man was NonStop working with organizations 105 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: that appear to be for the great or the greater good. 106 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: At least that's the way. That's the way it seems. 107 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 1: He also had a really solid rep for Oh yeah, 108 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: this is great, solid rep returning failing businesses around. Now, 109 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 1: that's sounds sounds great right on paper, But when you 110 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 1: turn a failing business around, like what does that really mean? 111 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 1: Like what do you have to do to turn a 112 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: failing business around? It's when you start hearing like corporate 113 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: buzzwords like pivot, you know. Yeah, and it could be 114 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: you know, and it could be everything from specializing in, 115 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 1: you know, making a company speciales in one small thing 116 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: that is a profit center, and then getting rid of 117 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of other things that a company does, 118 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: such as the case with Macy's. Uh, Macy's you'll remember 119 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 1: from them all when you were a kid, and some 120 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 1: some places now I think they're Macy's unless they're all gone, 121 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: I can't remember. But he turned that business around. He 122 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: got him out of bankruptcy right, which may have entailed layoffs. 123 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: That's that's the elephant in the room, the badger and 124 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: the bag. There under euphemisms like streamlining, pivoting, or focusing. 125 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 1: But he did manage to write this ship uh small 126 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: note about Vietnam Children's Fund. By the way, they build 127 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:43,439 Speaker 1: elementary schools in Vietnam, and they do a pretty great 128 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: job at it. There's still around. If you want to 129 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 1: learn more, you can. You can just find them online. 130 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 1: But perhaps the most unpredictable aspect of Wheeler's post military 131 00:08:55,080 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 1: career was this late stage professional plot twist. He was 132 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 1: well into his sixties when he developed an intense interest 133 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: in cyber security, and that's what led him to the 134 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: Miteror corporation. It also it also turned him into one 135 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:16,839 Speaker 1: of those guys who always has a briefcase inexplicable, always 136 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: has a briefcase. This in the huhs no telling, No, 137 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: literally we don't know, but behind the scenes, you know, 138 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 1: we have to realize that this this person was human 139 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: being and he struggled with his own demons. He suffered 140 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 1: from depression and bipolar disorder. That's not speculation. He received 141 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 1: diagnosis in this regard and this resulted in these bouts 142 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:51,559 Speaker 1: of frenetic action and then unpredictable at times drastic mood swings. 143 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: But you know who's perfect, Well, he's He's he's clearly 144 00:09:56,040 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 1: a workaholic, right, and I'm sure in many ways that 145 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 1: helped him at least if you if you watched the 146 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:06,239 Speaker 1: I think we mentioned it that unsolved Mysteries up episode 147 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:08,440 Speaker 1: as well as you read online stuff that has been 148 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:13,680 Speaker 1: written by his wife. He he thrived quite a bit 149 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: from that energy that he that he got, not necessarily 150 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 1: from bipolar disorder, but just that existed within him inherently, right, Right, 151 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: someone defining themselves by their continual actions, right, there must 152 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 1: always be a goal to pursue. He's not really a 153 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: kick back and smell the morning do with a nice 154 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:35,439 Speaker 1: hot cup of coffee kind of guy. He's got stuff 155 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:39,199 Speaker 1: to do. But given his track record and given the 156 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 1: success and the benefits of the work he does, his 157 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 1: legacy seems assured. Until one strange day in November, very 158 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: last day of December thirty one, there are some workers 159 00:10:55,200 --> 00:11:01,199 Speaker 1: at the Cherry Island landfill near Wilmington's, Virginia. Yeah, they 160 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 1: see the body of an elderly man plummet from the 161 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:08,559 Speaker 1: back of a garbage truck onto a heap of trash. 162 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 1: This turns out to be the body of John Parsons 163 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: Wheeler the Third. He was sixty six years old. Today's episode, 164 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: what happened? We'll tell you after a word from our sponsor. 165 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:33,439 Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. Officially, this death has been 166 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: ruled a homicide. However, it is a homicide that comes 167 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 1: with a lot of unanswered questions. And the further you 168 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: dig into this story, the stranger it becomes. So maybe 169 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: we start with the relevant details. Should we start with 170 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: the landfill? What do you think? I think that's a 171 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:56,839 Speaker 1: perfect place to start. When these workers found Wheeler's body, UM, 172 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 1: he had the look of having been severely beaten. He 173 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:04,319 Speaker 1: was wearing a white shirt, black pants, and a black jacket. 174 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: And an important detail, he was wearing a class of 175 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty six ring from the West Point Military Academy. UM. 176 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 1: And the thing that was unusual about it is that 177 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: he still had things like that clearly very valuable ring 178 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 1: that any average street mugger would have taken. Not to 179 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 1: mention the absolute lack of care that went into quote 180 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:32,560 Speaker 1: disposing of this body. I mean, it was really just 181 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 1: dumped in plain view. We're gonna talk about this later on, 182 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 1: but just to end up where his body ended up, 183 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 1: it was either someone taking great care to put a 184 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: body in a dumpster and hope that it would never 185 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:50,440 Speaker 1: be discovered again, because it is actually quite unlikely that 186 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 1: they would have discovered him amongst all the trash that 187 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 1: was dumped that day from from the truck. The other 188 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: the other side of the coin is if his body 189 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 1: was dumped by somebody or just put into a dumpster 190 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:05,680 Speaker 1: like that. You're right that there's a lack of care 191 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 1: in that. I don't know, it's weird. It's both sides, right, 192 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:11,680 Speaker 1: It's it's a lack of care, but it's also it 193 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:15,839 Speaker 1: appears to show um intent I guess if if someone 194 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:17,720 Speaker 1: actually did put him in there to try and hide 195 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: a body. Yeah, that's that's the thing. It's alarmingly easy 196 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:28,959 Speaker 1: to dispose of an organism in a landfill, especially a 197 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 1: large one. You just you have to work out the 198 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:34,440 Speaker 1: timing and you have to you know, like the day 199 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 1: of the week when a lot of dumps come in. 200 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: Things like that. This should not be confused or mistaken 201 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 1: as it's confused for mistaken as advice on where to 202 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 1: put bodies. We're not giving you that. We are saying 203 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 1: that the average I would say, not not pre planned 204 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:58,079 Speaker 1: or orchestrated. Mugging or murder doesn't usually resultants in the 205 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: perpetrator having the presence of mind to dispose of the body. 206 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: You know what I mean. If you are if you 207 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: are robbing someone, the robbery goes wrong and you stab them, 208 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:14,319 Speaker 1: wound them, named them, or shoot them, your first instinct 209 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 1: is going to be to leave the scene immediately rather 210 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 1: than sit around and think, hey, should I stash this 211 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: in some bushes assassin's creed style or something like that. 212 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 1: It just it doesn't often happen that way. So Wilmington's 213 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 1: is on the case. Authorities contact the police in Newcastle, Delaware, 214 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: where the Wheeler family has a second home, and they 215 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: the Virginia Police informed the Delaware police of this. A 216 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 1: few days earlier, just after Christmas round December, Wheeler had 217 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: told his wife he had to spend a few days 218 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: working on an important project at the minor corporation. He 219 00:14:57,160 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: told her he'd be staying at the Metropolitan Club in 220 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: downtown Washington, and they argued about this we know, they argued, 221 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 1: this is not speculation because we can see the email 222 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: and text records, and he was emphasizing this was important. 223 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 1: He even talked to his therapist about the argument. He 224 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 1: was trying to trying to smooth things out diplomatically until 225 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 1: the point that he fell completely out of contact with her. 226 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: And then police found a series of phone calls that 227 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: made this seem like more than an accidental death or 228 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 1: a mugging. That's right, but more than you know, offering 229 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: any real solutions. Just raised a significant number of new 230 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 1: questions to the circumstances surrounding Wheeler's death. One call from December, 231 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: the day Wheeler traveled to Washington, d C. Came from 232 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: a resident of Newcastle named Scott Morris, who saw PM 233 00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:00,040 Speaker 1: what he described as quote, the darkened silhouette of a 234 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 1: man standing in the frame of the house under construction 235 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 1: across the street, methodically lighting what looked like small balls 236 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 1: of fire and tossing them onto the floor. Huh. Really 237 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 1: descriptive and and and kind of eerie. Um. The police 238 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: called to the scene. Um didn't find any damage of note, 239 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 1: but Morris remained disturbed by by what he saw, the 240 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: sense of desperation um, and the purpose of what was 241 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 1: going on in this scene really stuck with him. He 242 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 1: described it as creepy. He says, the figure appeared very calm, 243 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 1: and when he finished, he turned very deliberately and walked 244 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 1: away towards the path along the Delaware River. Yeah. So 245 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 1: we know the thing about eyewitness accounts is that they 246 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: they're essentially combo meals. Right. The main entree in these 247 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: combo meals is going to be the fact foul description 248 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 1: of what happened. But the side order, you know, the 249 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 1: fries and the drink are the the person's own perspective 250 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 1: and opinion put on put upon what they saw. So yes, 251 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:21,639 Speaker 1: for Morris, this appears to be purposeful. He he somehow 252 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: from body language, because he didn't speak to this person, 253 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 1: he somehow believed or got the sense that they were 254 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 1: quite deliberate. But that doesn't necessarily mean they are because 255 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:36,399 Speaker 1: he didn't talk to them, right, and he didn't see 256 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:39,879 Speaker 1: who it was. That's a hugely important detail here. But 257 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 1: another hugely important detail. That construction site was something Wheeler 258 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 1: was involved in in an antagonistic way. It was part 259 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 1: of an on He was part of an ongoing legal 260 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:55,919 Speaker 1: dispute over the construction of this particular house, and he 261 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,479 Speaker 1: was going hard on the paint too. He hated the 262 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 1: idea of it being built Partially, yes, it would block 263 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 1: his his home's view of the land and the water, 264 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:10,919 Speaker 1: but from his perspective, at least the way he explained it, 265 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 1: the area was historic because back in the day, early 266 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:21,239 Speaker 1: colonists and then later revolutionaries built a defense battery on 267 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 1: that land. So to him building anything on that land 268 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:28,639 Speaker 1: other than perhaps a monument to those earlier forces was 269 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:32,239 Speaker 1: profoundly offensive. It was a kind of sacrilege. But then 270 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 1: we have to ask ourselves, was that sincere or was 271 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: that just like his rationalization for this construction that he hated, 272 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Anyway, he was involved, well, 273 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 1: he was involved, and he was trying to stop it. 274 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 1: His wife says that he was essentially on a mission 275 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,160 Speaker 1: to stop this thing. And we know from just from 276 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:56,120 Speaker 1: his past life and in his actions everything that he's done, 277 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: he he sees something as a goal and he goes 278 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 1: for it, and that's again like his mission, right, so 279 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,399 Speaker 1: you can imagine that he was very feeling, very very 280 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 1: strongly about this, and from from what I've read this, 281 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:13,439 Speaker 1: this incident appears to have been like smoke bombs that 282 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 1: weren't gonna didn't seem to cause any damage really to 283 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: the house, didn't seem to cause anything else besides this disturbance. Um. 284 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 1: But the weird thing is that John Wheeler's cellular phone 285 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: was recovered in that house, the house that was under 286 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 1: construction where the silhouetted man or person lighting smoke bombs 287 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:40,160 Speaker 1: was found or was seen, let's say, very strange, Yeah, 288 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: leaving the accusations of his involvement or his guilt in 289 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: this instance, leaving those all to the side. The timeline 290 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 1: becomes really weird when we think about when he had 291 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 1: the phone and when he didn't, how the phone got 292 00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 1: from him to that place in uh place on the 293 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 1: banks there. And then there is another call police discover 294 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 1: on December, the day before Wheeler's body is found. There's 295 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 1: a guy named Rob Dill d I l L. He 296 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: is one of the wheelers neighbors there in Newcastle, and 297 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 1: he reports that someone has broken into the Wheeler's home. 298 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 1: I believe he's the same neighbor also who said they 299 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: had a TV on very loud when he knew there 300 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:27,879 Speaker 1: was no one home and he was just doing anything 301 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: neighbors do, keeping an eye on the house. He had 302 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 1: noticed a window a jar in the Wheeler house and 303 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 1: the exterior door the storm door was closed, but the 304 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:47,360 Speaker 1: interior door was also a jar. And then he found 305 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: he found some weird, weird stuff when he went into 306 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:55,919 Speaker 1: the interior. There was a disarray in the kitchen, you know, 307 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: like somebody had been rooting through things in a hurried manner. 308 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:05,160 Speaker 1: John had a ceremonial sword and shield. They were covered 309 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 1: with powder by the sink. Rob Dill notices a footprint 310 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 1: in powder in front of the sink, and when the 311 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: police show up. The weird thing is that nothing seems 312 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 1: to have been stolen. Stuff was messed with, but no 313 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 1: one No one took expensive electronics, No one took, you know, 314 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 1: some of the art that the Wheelers had. The stuff 315 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 1: the kind of stuff you would normally steal if you 316 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 1: were just a garden variety be an e dude. But 317 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:37,400 Speaker 1: there was one detail that caught their attention. Amid all 318 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: this disarray, investigators found a book on the kitchen counter. 319 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 1: The book was open, as if someone had been reading 320 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: it before they left. Can you guess what the book is? 321 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:55,440 Speaker 1: If you guessed the long gray line. You are correct, yeah, man. 322 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:59,639 Speaker 1: And and just the fact that his ceremonial sword and 323 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: she we're hanging out down there. I mean, that's a 324 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 1: it's weird. Spices some comment maybe wherever the white substance was, 325 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 1: and those things. I don't know. It's weird. It's tough 326 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: because initially what that sounds like to me is frantically 327 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:23,360 Speaker 1: searching for something in your own house and then uh 328 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 1: maybe finding it or not finding it and getting upset 329 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: and leaving. Um that's where forget or or you know 330 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 1: there's something I've hidden something, or I I know I've 331 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:38,119 Speaker 1: hidden something, but I'm not sure where it is. I 332 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 1: think it might be under the sink, and like just 333 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 1: pulling everything frantically out from drawers and from under the sink. 334 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 1: I don't know. That's what it sounds like to me, 335 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:47,679 Speaker 1: Rather like, as you said, for all the reasons you've 336 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,439 Speaker 1: already stayed up been rather than someone going into the 337 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,919 Speaker 1: house and robbing it, unless they were just trying to 338 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: leave a message of some sort, right, unless there was 339 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 1: possibly someone from his past. Right, this is the thing. 340 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:06,239 Speaker 1: We don't know what page the book was on, you know, 341 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:10,880 Speaker 1: when it was open, was it indicating a specific, somehow 342 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:15,680 Speaker 1: significant passage unknown at this time. But then also we 343 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: see an alternate possibility that maybe Wheeler himself is panicked 344 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 1: or he's hurried for some reason, because when people are 345 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 1: hurrying from their own house, they don't always close the 346 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 1: windows or the doors, right, because the logic is, it's 347 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: my house, I'll just come back into it, right. Uh So, 348 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:43,920 Speaker 1: the initial investigations tell us increasingly strange things. On January third, uh, 349 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 1: just a few days after the discovery of his body, 350 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:51,439 Speaker 1: up I reported Wheeler's death was ruled a homicide, but 351 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: a friend of his that he knew through the legal 352 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 1: circles he moved in noted, this is just not the 353 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,399 Speaker 1: kind of guy who gets murdered. This is not the 354 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:06,400 Speaker 1: kind of guy you find in a landfill. But the 355 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: official cause of death again, his homicide, and that was 356 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,439 Speaker 1: specified in several obituaries that came out shortly after. So, 357 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 1: according to his obituary in the Washington Post, while just 358 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 1: read your quote, uh quote, the cause of death was 359 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: blunt force trauma inflicted by unknown assailants in Wilmington, Delaware, 360 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:30,640 Speaker 1: not far from his home in Newcastle, Delaware. But as 361 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:35,640 Speaker 1: these investigations continued, many more troubling details started to rise 362 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 1: to the surface. Wheeler seemed to not only have been beaten, 363 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,360 Speaker 1: but beaten to the point of of like the beating 364 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 1: inducing a heart attack you can only imagine, UM. And 365 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,440 Speaker 1: several eye witnesses would report that Wheeler had been seen 366 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 1: in really rough shape, holding a shoe, his shoe, stumbling 367 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 1: around um under duress and Wilmington, Delaware. Um. He was 368 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 1: telling people in this uh Unsolved Mysteries that we talked 369 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 1: about the top of the show. They interviewed some of 370 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 1: the folks that that saw him UM, and he claimed 371 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:15,239 Speaker 1: to have lost his briefcase or rather even even more so, 372 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:21,639 Speaker 1: had it stolen. UM. And he kept repeating it like 373 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 1: he was in some kind of fugue state. UM, whether 374 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,639 Speaker 1: it's suffering from some sort of mental breakdown or just 375 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 1: days from having been attacked or or you know, and 376 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,439 Speaker 1: disheveled and all that. But it really does the plot 377 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: does thicken. UM. There's some footage you can see, UH, 378 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 1: he's on camera from his kind of you know, wander UM, 379 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 1: and you can see he's kind of pacing around frantically. 380 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,680 Speaker 1: He's holding this shoe. It almost looks like he's mumbling 381 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 1: to himself. Um. He looks very disoriented on these CCTV videos. Um, 382 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,200 Speaker 1: and he claims to have been robbed and needed a 383 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 1: ride out of town. And does this my side note here, 384 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: but when first look at the footage, you see and 385 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: you see an elderly man that does appear to be 386 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,199 Speaker 1: out of sorts for one reason or another. And in 387 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 1: my mind, initially what I see is disorientation, like disordered, 388 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 1: disoriented person. I don't maybe I don't know where I am. 389 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,640 Speaker 1: I'm confused about what's going on and why I'm here. 390 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,119 Speaker 1: That's what it looks like. But according to people who 391 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 1: knew him, well, there's several interviews outside of that Unsolved 392 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 1: Mysteries show that include his wife and several people that 393 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: knew him and his wife speaking about others words, but 394 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,440 Speaker 1: they all say that he looked in distress, as though 395 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: he was, uh what what did they I think, Ben, 396 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 1: you kind of put it that way hunt hunting or 397 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 1: being hunted essentially, like he was in distress for one 398 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:53,399 Speaker 1: reason or another. That that's their opinion, right, Yeah, And 399 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: that's that's a phrase we'll use later in the episode 400 00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 1: because it does incapsulate exactly how he um, how he 401 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 1: was behaving, and again we see the issue with eyewitness reports. 402 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:09,119 Speaker 1: People are putting their own perspective over the events, or 403 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 1: it's a better way to say it is they're seeing 404 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 1: the same events through the lens of their own perspective 405 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:21,159 Speaker 1: and their preconceptions. Here's the thing. This doesn't appear to 406 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: have come out of nowhere because email records show that 407 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 1: on December twenty nine, he had contacted his colleagues at 408 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 1: the Miter Corporation reporting a home break in. He said 409 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 1: that his cell phone has been stolen, his badge, his 410 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 1: ID badge, his security fob, and his briefcase. There's a 411 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:46,679 Speaker 1: mystery here. We know his records for cab calls, we 412 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 1: have interviews with cab drivers who spoke with him, when 413 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,440 Speaker 1: you know his records for emails and text but after 414 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 1: he reported his phone being stolen, it's not clear where 415 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 1: he was ending these other emails from or how he 416 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,919 Speaker 1: was sending them. Was it an internet cafe or something 417 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 1: like that. We simply do not know. There are no 418 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: further reports of him until six pm when he walked 419 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: into the nearby Happy Harry's pharmacy. This was like his 420 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 1: you know, it's like his CVS or his Walgreens down 421 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,160 Speaker 1: the street or right eight, I guess, depending on where 422 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,200 Speaker 1: you live, Dwayne read if you're in New York. I'm 423 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 1: just naming pharmacies at this point. But he uh, he he, 424 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 1: he knows the people who worked there. Uh. He is 425 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 1: friends with one of the pharmacists and he comes in 426 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 1: and he asked this guy if he can get a 427 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 1: ride to Wilmington's. And multiple times people try to offer 428 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 1: him assistance, and for varying reasons, he always turns the 429 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 1: assistance down. It's it's strange. Can we talk about why 430 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: he wants to go to Willington's. At least according to 431 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 1: that documentary or the Unsold Mysteries episode, it's because his 432 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 1: car was parked somewhere where he left his car park 433 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 1: somewhere and he wanted to go find it, but he 434 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: wasn't quite sure where it is, and according to his 435 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 1: wife and others, he would he was constantly losing his 436 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,160 Speaker 1: car essentially after he would park it. Yeah, d C 437 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 1: is a tough place to park in, I mean a 438 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 1: lot of the Northeast in general. But also he was 439 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 1: doing something that I think will be familiar to a 440 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 1: lot of people who parked their car for a long 441 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 1: time during quarantine. He just hadn't been around his car 442 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 1: for a minute, right, so he wasn't quite sure where 443 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 1: he put it. That doesn't The important thing here is 444 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 1: that's losing your car in that way is not indicative 445 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 1: of an unwell mental state. Yes, and and that's the 446 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 1: story that he was giving to people to for the 447 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: reason to get to that area. But we're not, I 448 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: don't know, we can't definitively prove that's why he needed 449 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,360 Speaker 1: to get to Wilmington's right, Just that that's what he 450 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 1: said to some people, but not all. That's a very 451 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 1: good point. So he looks particularly rough when he's in 452 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:06,480 Speaker 1: one parking lot talking this parking attendant. Uh. He has 453 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 1: one shoe on the other is ripped and in his hand, 454 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 1: and it turns out that he is in the wrong deck. 455 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 1: His car is in a different nearby parking deck. There 456 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 1: are He eventually leaves the scene. There are no further 457 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 1: sightings of him until December, when he visits a high 458 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 1: rise to speak with a senior partner at a law firm. 459 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 1: He leaves before he actually meets with this person, but 460 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: he also, according to someone else in the office, asked 461 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 1: for money to take the train. Somewhere before he left, 462 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 1: surveillance cameras captured him exiting the building. Uh. He was 463 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 1: walking east toward a place called Rodney Square, and this 464 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 1: leads if you walk past Rodney Square, this leads to 465 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 1: an area of the city that is known for historically 466 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 1: high rates of crime. That footage is the last time 467 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,960 Speaker 1: John Parsons Wheeler is seen alive. The next morning, he's 468 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 1: found dead in that in that landfill. It is interesting 469 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 1: to note as well, it appears that he may have 470 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:16,160 Speaker 1: spent the night underneath that building where there are there's 471 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 1: a series of tunnels essentially that go throughout the area, 472 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 1: and he was definitely seen on camera down there. Uh. 473 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 1: And he was also seen in the same clothes he 474 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 1: was wearing earlier. And then when he exited the building, 475 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,360 Speaker 1: somehow or for some reason, he had gotten ahold of 476 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 1: a black hoodie, put that on and wore that out 477 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:38,640 Speaker 1: of the building the next night. And then folks who 478 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,200 Speaker 1: knew him, his wife, for example, who were interviewed for 479 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 1: that Unsolved Mystery episode um said that was just completely 480 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 1: out of character for him, like that's not something he 481 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 1: would have ever worn. But it was also very cold 482 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 1: for sure, but it's like it didn't belong to him. 483 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 1: He got it from somebody or some somewhere found it 484 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 1: or something, yeah, or maybe picked it up paid cash, 485 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,440 Speaker 1: as he did have cash on him to the very 486 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 1: end of his life and beyond. Uh So, when his 487 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,320 Speaker 1: body is found at the landfill, police in Newark, New Jersey, 488 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 1: end up taking the case because there's evidence that the 489 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 1: trash truck that had his body in it made stops 490 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: in Newark, which means that Wheeler's body somehow ended up 491 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:26,480 Speaker 1: in a dumpster about thirteen miles away from where he 492 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: was last seen on video or where he's last provably seen. 493 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 1: As far as the information law enforcement has released, how 494 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,040 Speaker 1: much have they released? Not all of it, not by 495 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 1: a long shot. We're gonna pause for word from our sponsor, 496 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 1: and then we're going to dive into some of the 497 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 1: theories and remaining questions regarding the death of John Parsons Wheeler. 498 00:32:54,440 --> 00:33:01,440 Speaker 1: We're back earlier. We noted that whomever was throwing smoke 499 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 1: bombs at that construction site, whoever they were, they weren't 500 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 1: throwing explosives. You know, this wasn't C four. They were 501 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 1: lighting fires. The smoke bombs didn't really have the capacity 502 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:19,280 Speaker 1: to do permanent damage. No, I mean that we we 503 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:21,120 Speaker 1: kind of all know what smoke bombs are. The kind 504 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:22,760 Speaker 1: of things you can buy at a joke shop or 505 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 1: a fireworkshop, and they're sort of considered like the whimpiest 506 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 1: of fireworks. But they make cool plumes of colored smoke. 507 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 1: Which would you would have thought that the the eyewitness 508 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 1: people would have mentioned the smoke bombs. I mean, they 509 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: put out a lot of a lot of smoke, and 510 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: it's usually brightly colored, like blues or purples or pinks 511 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 1: or whatever. Um, But it wasn't. It was at eleven 512 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,360 Speaker 1: eleven eleven thirty PM when that was happening, right, So 513 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 1: it was described as being silhouetted, so when there when 514 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:53,120 Speaker 1: you would have had to have some direct light to 515 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 1: see the effects there. But you're right, I mean, these 516 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 1: things they don't even really explode. They just kind of 517 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 1: you light the few using it sparks and then once 518 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 1: it hits, it really just starts shooting out the smoke. 519 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 1: So they wouldn't have done any damage. You can't really 520 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,400 Speaker 1: do a thing with smoke bombs other than you know, 521 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 1: disappear if you're like a cool ninja or something. So 522 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:16,320 Speaker 1: could he have made an enemy? I mean, he's definitely involved, 523 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 1: or someone definitely wanted it to look as if he 524 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 1: were involved, because his cell phone ends up at the 525 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:26,520 Speaker 1: construction site. So did he lie to the Miter corporation 526 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 1: and say that he had lost his cell phone prior 527 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:33,840 Speaker 1: to this to try to escape culpability? Uh? Did someone 528 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,440 Speaker 1: sell steal his cell phone and put it at the 529 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 1: construction site. That's kind of complicated frame up, isn't it. 530 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,879 Speaker 1: There would have to be a compelling reason to do that. 531 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,440 Speaker 1: Or was the smoke bomb a signal for a meeting? 532 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 1: You know, like was I mean that sounds silly, but 533 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:54,160 Speaker 1: maybe the smoke bomb at a construction site was maybe 534 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,879 Speaker 1: the construction site was a quiet place to meet that 535 00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,239 Speaker 1: he thought would be you know, he'd be able to 536 00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:03,040 Speaker 1: have a confidential conversation. There's another question, like when you're 537 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:06,680 Speaker 1: talking about the minor corporation materials and I don't mean, 538 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:08,280 Speaker 1: you know, I don't want to put anything on John. 539 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 1: I don't know what he was doing or what his 540 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 1: motivations were, but I can imagine all of those assets 541 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 1: for a company could be valuable to somebody, Right, You're 542 00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 1: absolutely right. Uh, there's there's something else here. You know, 543 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,960 Speaker 1: we see a couple of points where this could have 544 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:32,760 Speaker 1: been a simple robbery or a series of unfortunate, completely mundane, 545 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 1: non espionage related events. Uh. But there there's some problems 546 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:43,640 Speaker 1: with that too. So first, as you would pointed out earlier, Matt, Uh, 547 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,040 Speaker 1: the body has things on it that a mugger would 548 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:51,400 Speaker 1: have stolen. Very nice Rolex watch, He's got that class 549 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 1: ring from West Point. He still has cold hard cash 550 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:58,480 Speaker 1: on his person. Why would robbers leave all those things 551 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:02,439 Speaker 1: on a victim? If verse they were, If there were 552 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 1: robbers at his home, what were they looking for? It 553 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:09,080 Speaker 1: was certainly not high end art, It was not electronics, 554 00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:11,920 Speaker 1: other valuables. None of those were touched. They were just 555 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:16,560 Speaker 1: searching frantically for tumeric apparently. Uh. But the problem here 556 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 1: is one of geography. Honestly, it's a it's a series 557 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 1: of bizarre disturbances. And even if you you do the 558 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:29,800 Speaker 1: footwork and look through, uh, the documented timeline of where 559 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,759 Speaker 1: he went and when, you will see that this appears 560 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:37,400 Speaker 1: to be a man on the run. He is either 561 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 1: being hunted or believes he is being hunted, or possibly 562 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:46,400 Speaker 1: at some parts of the timeline, he himself is hunting someone, 563 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 1: which leads us to ask the question, are we talking 564 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 1: about murder for higher? I mean yeah, I mean, you know, 565 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 1: you you mentioned completely correctly been like the way this 566 00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,440 Speaker 1: man looks, the way he's pacing in this bathroom, it's 567 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,279 Speaker 1: like he's high from somebody. It's like he's trying to 568 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,960 Speaker 1: escape some unseen assailant, you know. I mean that really 569 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:08,480 Speaker 1: that's how it rings for me. I don't know if 570 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,120 Speaker 1: you guys read it that way, but but I really 571 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:14,920 Speaker 1: got strong vibes that that he was being chased. Yeah, 572 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:18,359 Speaker 1: I mean, I can imagine it. We have to wonder, 573 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:20,560 Speaker 1: and again I I end up going back to the 574 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:24,000 Speaker 1: Miter Corporation because he only worked for them for what 575 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,680 Speaker 1: two years a year or two years two thousand nine, 576 00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:30,319 Speaker 1: I think two tho until his death. Um, he was 577 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:34,239 Speaker 1: just a consultant with them, and who knows what consulting 578 00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:37,680 Speaker 1: work for the Miter Corporation actually looks like? Who knows 579 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:41,000 Speaker 1: what information he was dealing with and had, you know, 580 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:45,759 Speaker 1: privileged to knowledge too, And of I gosh, I have 581 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 1: to put a giant it's not an allegedly, it's not 582 00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:54,240 Speaker 1: it's it's my own thoughts and it's I wonder if 583 00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:57,920 Speaker 1: his work with a minor corporation had something to do 584 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,000 Speaker 1: with this. Yeah, I don't think that's out of the 585 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:05,640 Speaker 1: realm of possibility at all, because at this at this point, 586 00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 1: you know, the US intelligence community is well aware of 587 00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:16,520 Speaker 1: the asymmetrical information warfare that countries like Russia and China 588 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:21,040 Speaker 1: and the DPRK or North Korea are actively waging against 589 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,600 Speaker 1: the US. And to be fair, the US is doing 590 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 1: the same thing with those countries with countries in the 591 00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:30,400 Speaker 1: Middle East. I mean, take a map, spin it around 592 00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:32,839 Speaker 1: and just throw a random dart at it and you'll 593 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,160 Speaker 1: probably hit a country that the US is fine on. 594 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:41,000 Speaker 1: So there are a lot of state level actors that 595 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,960 Speaker 1: would be very interested in his work at minor corporation. 596 00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:48,719 Speaker 1: This takes me back to that point we made earlier 597 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,759 Speaker 1: about having a lot of potential enemies because he had 598 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:57,720 Speaker 1: a lot of potential projects. It's a nexus of speculation, 599 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,759 Speaker 1: and there's really there. There's a disturbing part here that 600 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:05,040 Speaker 1: I wish uh some of those documentaries we mentioned spent 601 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,520 Speaker 1: more time on, and it's this. So we've talked about 602 00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:13,680 Speaker 1: CCTV before, Closed circuit television. This stuff is you know 603 00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:18,040 Speaker 1: generally right now it's not all interconnected, right, So like 604 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:22,120 Speaker 1: the pizza shop on one side of the street may 605 00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:26,480 Speaker 1: have a couple of security cameras and the cupcake factory 606 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:28,600 Speaker 1: or whatever on the other side of the street may 607 00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:30,640 Speaker 1: have their own set of cameras, but they don't really 608 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,920 Speaker 1: share data. Thing is, law enforcement can legally obtain those, 609 00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,480 Speaker 1: especially in the case of an investigation of a heinous 610 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:45,200 Speaker 1: crime like a murder. Wilmington's in particular, is inundated with cameras. 611 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:50,480 Speaker 1: It is lousy with cameras. There's so so many, and 612 00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,319 Speaker 1: we know that they're Therefore, there has to be more 613 00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:57,920 Speaker 1: footage of John Parsons Wheeler on that faithful night. But 614 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:02,319 Speaker 1: if you look at aaw enforcement statements, you just don't 615 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,520 Speaker 1: see that footage. You don't see the vast majority of 616 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,400 Speaker 1: what could be out there. And looking at the facts alone, 617 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:13,640 Speaker 1: it's plausible that this investigation was at some point and 618 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:18,279 Speaker 1: from some high level stone walled. That doesn't mean that 619 00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,800 Speaker 1: someone you know, working for Miter killed him, or working 620 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:26,640 Speaker 1: for the CIA or you know, some other intelligence organization. 621 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,440 Speaker 1: It just means that whoever murdered Wheeler, and whatever their 622 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:34,800 Speaker 1: motivations for doing so were, there's something about the story 623 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,480 Speaker 1: the US government actively does not want you to know. 624 00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:39,960 Speaker 1: Going even further than stone Walld, you could almost say 625 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:44,160 Speaker 1: manipulated or compromised. Right, Yeah, maybe can I can I 626 00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:49,440 Speaker 1: put something out there if I'm gonna this is this 627 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,480 Speaker 1: is insane. I'm just gonna say it. Imagine the three 628 00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:58,120 Speaker 1: of us. Imagine if for some reason, my heart was 629 00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:02,840 Speaker 1: out to get us. All of our devices are inextricably 630 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,759 Speaker 1: linked to my heart. Doesn't mean they're tracking them necessarily, 631 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:10,600 Speaker 1: but any use that we would have on our machines, 632 00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,520 Speaker 1: even on our phones, likely could be linked back to 633 00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:18,640 Speaker 1: that company in some way. And if we needed to 634 00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:22,360 Speaker 1: get away because we were being hunted for some reason, 635 00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:26,000 Speaker 1: We're not and we will never be by iHeart. A 636 00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:28,799 Speaker 1: good A good strategy maybe to get rid of all 637 00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:33,839 Speaker 1: of those potential links and devices. So I'm I'm imagining 638 00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,200 Speaker 1: that there could be a scenario where John got rid 639 00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:40,680 Speaker 1: of all of that Miter Corporation stuff on purpose, because 640 00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:43,759 Speaker 1: he wasn't trying to get away from somebody else. He 641 00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,480 Speaker 1: was maybe trying to get away from them, yeah, or 642 00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:51,440 Speaker 1: maybe maybe trying to uh do something like do a 643 00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,520 Speaker 1: burn the village to save the village strategy, And maybe 644 00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,480 Speaker 1: brick his devices. He would have he would have known 645 00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:00,400 Speaker 1: how to actually brick one too, how to how to 646 00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:04,960 Speaker 1: make that information uh as closely irretrievable as possible. But 647 00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:08,200 Speaker 1: that that missing briefcase, that's one of the keys here. 648 00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:11,919 Speaker 1: He was never without it. It's never been found. All 649 00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:14,680 Speaker 1: we know about what could have been in the briefcase 650 00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:18,440 Speaker 1: is that it must have been related to his cybersecurity 651 00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,600 Speaker 1: work at Miter Well not must have, but that's the 652 00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:26,359 Speaker 1: most likely scenario. Uh, we just don't know. You know, 653 00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:28,799 Speaker 1: it reminds me of a show that I worked on, 654 00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:32,239 Speaker 1: Murder and Oregon about the well, I mean, it's it's 655 00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:37,120 Speaker 1: conjectured by the folks who truly believe this is what happened. 656 00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:42,960 Speaker 1: That this public official was assassinated, um because he knew 657 00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:45,960 Speaker 1: too much about corruption and the Oregon State prison system. 658 00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,760 Speaker 1: And when he was killed, it was you know, shocked 659 00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:52,200 Speaker 1: up to being a mugging. Um. He was stabbed in 660 00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:55,359 Speaker 1: the heart outside of his office building. But guess what 661 00:42:55,440 --> 00:43:00,120 Speaker 1: was missing? Uh when when they found his body a 662 00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:04,839 Speaker 1: briefcase full of the presentation materials. Back then it would 663 00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:08,480 Speaker 1: have been floppy disks before PowerPoint and cloud based stuff. 664 00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:12,839 Speaker 1: Um and supposedly that was never recovered, and that had 665 00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:14,840 Speaker 1: this presentation that he's about to give that was going 666 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:16,840 Speaker 1: to blow the lid off of all this like literally 667 00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:20,880 Speaker 1: cops like smuggling meth out of prisons and into prisons 668 00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:24,600 Speaker 1: and really horrible, gnarly stuff. Um. You know, again, none 669 00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:28,080 Speaker 1: of this has ever been proven, but the case seems 670 00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:30,560 Speaker 1: really strong and this really has the same ring of 671 00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:33,479 Speaker 1: that to me. Well, and he was going to meet 672 00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:37,800 Speaker 1: some people at that the corporate offices right in that building. Yeah, 673 00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:41,280 Speaker 1: he had been in the Uh. He had been meeting 674 00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,000 Speaker 1: wanting to meet with the legal team. Uh. He had 675 00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:47,560 Speaker 1: also been around the DuPont building at the same time. 676 00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:51,799 Speaker 1: And again he had emphasized to his family and to 677 00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:55,080 Speaker 1: his colleagues that he was he had to work, even 678 00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:56,319 Speaker 1: though it was like the end of the year, like 679 00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:59,440 Speaker 1: he had to go in and knock out some incredibly 680 00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:03,400 Speaker 1: crucial off with miner It is currently unknown whether the 681 00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:06,879 Speaker 1: last several hours of his life were spent in Willington's 682 00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:11,839 Speaker 1: or in Newark. There's no conclusive murder scene that has 683 00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:16,200 Speaker 1: been found, or at least there's none that's been discussed 684 00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:19,440 Speaker 1: with the public. And if there's an exact time of 685 00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:24,239 Speaker 1: death that has also not been released. In fact, going 686 00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,279 Speaker 1: to my earlier theory that there's some stonewalling or some 687 00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:31,960 Speaker 1: of education here. On January eight of twenty eleven, just 688 00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:36,120 Speaker 1: a few days after his body was discovered, Wilmington's city 689 00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:40,719 Speaker 1: councilman named Kevin Kelly told police not to quote go 690 00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:46,520 Speaker 1: overboard in investigating this man's death at the top. Yeah, right, 691 00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:49,160 Speaker 1: that's weird. It's like, okay, yeah, look into this murder. 692 00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:51,600 Speaker 1: But you guys, don't make it a whole thing. You know, 693 00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:56,560 Speaker 1: it's a high profile person who passed in a very 694 00:44:56,560 --> 00:45:00,439 Speaker 1: strange way, and you say, don't don't worry about it. Yeah, 695 00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:04,200 Speaker 1: chill bro right. Uh. At the time of this recording 696 00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:08,680 Speaker 1: of our recording, Uh, any toxicology reports on Wheeler that 697 00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:11,960 Speaker 1: may have, you know, indicated some kind of substance in 698 00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:14,960 Speaker 1: his in his body. Uh, they are unavailable to the 699 00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:19,040 Speaker 1: public medical examiners. I found a couple of sources saying 700 00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:23,279 Speaker 1: that the examiners indicated they either found no abnormal chemicals 701 00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:26,359 Speaker 1: or nothing that played a role in his demise. Because 702 00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:29,440 Speaker 1: we have to remember, some substances can be metabolized very 703 00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:34,759 Speaker 1: quickly and they'll still have damaging effects. But when you 704 00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:38,480 Speaker 1: check the body afterwards, uh, they'll be clean, you know, 705 00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:41,480 Speaker 1: and they'll have appeared to die of something like asphyxiation 706 00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:45,759 Speaker 1: or heart failure. Russia does polonium on purpose, it's so 707 00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:49,320 Speaker 1: that you know it's Russia. There are other much uh 708 00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:53,840 Speaker 1: much less apparent substances. What was the stuff not Navalni 709 00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:58,680 Speaker 1: got hit with in his underwear, Nova Chukchuk. That's the 710 00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:01,719 Speaker 1: the whole point, at least according to that phone call, 711 00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:04,719 Speaker 1: if you believe it it was, that it would be untraceable, 712 00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:08,680 Speaker 1: you'd have no idea what happened, right, But then also, 713 00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:12,360 Speaker 1: how much of an expert is that guy if he's 714 00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:15,480 Speaker 1: going to talk about that stuff on the phone, well 715 00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:18,200 Speaker 1: he's so yeah, okay, come on, he was. He was allegedly, 716 00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:20,600 Speaker 1: at least according to his belief, was talking to one 717 00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:24,719 Speaker 1: of his handlers. Okay, al right, but yeah, alright, Well, 718 00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:27,040 Speaker 1: far be it for us to criticize someone else just 719 00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:30,279 Speaker 1: trying to do their job. So in some ways this 720 00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:34,640 Speaker 1: case does bear similarities to that still unsolved death of 721 00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:38,879 Speaker 1: Eliza Lam. We have video footage, have records of communication. 722 00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:45,080 Speaker 1: What we do not have, however, is anything like an explanation. Yeah, 723 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:51,799 Speaker 1: not even close. And unlike the case of Lamb, it 724 00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:55,239 Speaker 1: appears the world at large has moved on from the 725 00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:59,600 Speaker 1: mysterious death of John Wheeler. It really does seem that way. 726 00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:03,839 Speaker 1: I'm I'm thankful that Unsolved Mysteries came back with this 727 00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:07,200 Speaker 1: episode because it feels like it's really jumped started at 728 00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,560 Speaker 1: least discussion online in a lot of places, because I 729 00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:14,320 Speaker 1: think it's been eleven ten ten years, almost eleven years. 730 00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:19,399 Speaker 1: No eleven years, got huh, It's just it's been so long. Uh. 731 00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:23,000 Speaker 1: And one of my one of my big questions coming 732 00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:26,320 Speaker 1: away from this, after reading everything, watching all this stuff, 733 00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:32,239 Speaker 1: there are two scenarios for me. One is that he 734 00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:36,359 Speaker 1: really was going through some kind of mental state where 735 00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:40,160 Speaker 1: he was either manic or or super low right where 736 00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:43,960 Speaker 1: where he was just going through something. I'm not confused 737 00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:45,840 Speaker 1: is the wrong word, but he just what he was 738 00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:50,400 Speaker 1: focused on other things, and what we what we see 739 00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:54,560 Speaker 1: in the footage is him truly in a distressed, confused 740 00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:57,399 Speaker 1: state and he's not sure what's going on. He's trying 741 00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:59,080 Speaker 1: to find his car, then he gets lost. He has 742 00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:01,320 Speaker 1: no way to communicate because he doesn't have a cell phone. 743 00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:04,120 Speaker 1: He's he can't get back to his wife, who would 744 00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:07,600 Speaker 1: you know, like be his mental rock or or another 745 00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:12,000 Speaker 1: family member, somebody familiar that would kind of help him. 746 00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:15,480 Speaker 1: And he's cold, he's in a different place. Maybe a 747 00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:19,120 Speaker 1: car took him to Newark and he didn't expect to 748 00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:21,560 Speaker 1: go to Newark for some reason, or somebody he got 749 00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:25,080 Speaker 1: in a car with, uh, with bad intentions took him 750 00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:27,279 Speaker 1: to new Wark instead of where he wanted to go. 751 00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:32,319 Speaker 1: And you know, that's one potential thing. And along with 752 00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:36,960 Speaker 1: that is maybe he was cold and he climbed into 753 00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:40,560 Speaker 1: a dumpster, which is a common thing that occurs when 754 00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:42,719 Speaker 1: it's very very cold outside and there's no other place 755 00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:46,800 Speaker 1: to go. Dumpsters are used in that Unsolved Mysteries episode. 756 00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:50,640 Speaker 1: There's there's a few people who work in that industry 757 00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:53,920 Speaker 1: saying that, Yeah, it's very common for us to load 758 00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:56,399 Speaker 1: the truck up to one of these dumpsters, you put 759 00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:58,480 Speaker 1: the forks in, and then somebody will pop out the 760 00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:00,280 Speaker 1: top or jump out the side, and like, well whoa 761 00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:02,759 Speaker 1: whoall stop stop, I'm in here. And I'm not saying 762 00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:05,160 Speaker 1: that John would or wouldn't do that. It's just a 763 00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:09,680 Speaker 1: real possibility, right, Yeah, Yeah, it's a real possibility, and 764 00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:13,640 Speaker 1: it's an excellent point. Uh. We do also need to 765 00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:17,759 Speaker 1: point out that, you know, the family, the survivors, his relatives, 766 00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:23,239 Speaker 1: his friends, his colleagues have all also you know, done 767 00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:27,600 Speaker 1: their best hiring investigators, putting out rewards for information. But 768 00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:30,840 Speaker 1: still at this point, uh, there seemed to be no 769 00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:37,880 Speaker 1: leads the like. The craziest question is could could a 770 00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:41,840 Speaker 1: government agency of some some actor, some state actor, or 771 00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:46,279 Speaker 1: a faction thereof have targeted him for his extensive high 772 00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:49,200 Speaker 1: level knowledge. He knew a lot of stuff, you know. 773 00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:53,160 Speaker 1: But the thing is, he seems by all accounts to 774 00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:56,960 Speaker 1: be a real company man, like he's ideologically loyal. He 775 00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:01,560 Speaker 1: doesn't seem like he's the type to divulge secret intelligence, 776 00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:04,880 Speaker 1: to spill the to spill the espionage beans, or anything 777 00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:08,480 Speaker 1: like that. So then we have to ask, you know, 778 00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:10,640 Speaker 1: when you get all Jacob's ladder with this, but we 779 00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:13,400 Speaker 1: have to ask whether there might be a personal revenge 780 00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:16,320 Speaker 1: mode of at play. Could it have been something related 781 00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:21,839 Speaker 1: to Vietnam there's no solid proof, or or that house, 782 00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:23,640 Speaker 1: that house across the street where he was trying to 783 00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:26,719 Speaker 1: shut that thing down. The yeah, I think that's a 784 00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:30,520 Speaker 1: real possibility that he made a personal enemy somehow, one 785 00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:33,200 Speaker 1: way or another. The other thing I want to bring 786 00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:35,680 Speaker 1: up with that dumpster just really quickly. I'm sorry that 787 00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:37,800 Speaker 1: I didn't finish that thought there. If you're in a 788 00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:41,759 Speaker 1: dumpster like that, imagine the physics of one of these 789 00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:45,400 Speaker 1: big forklift trucks picking up a dumpster if you're inside 790 00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:47,960 Speaker 1: of it, and then dumping it forcefully into the back 791 00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:51,360 Speaker 1: of a truck. Then also think about the fact that 792 00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:55,520 Speaker 1: a lot of those dump trucks have a compressor function 793 00:50:55,640 --> 00:51:00,320 Speaker 1: on purpose to compress trash. Imagine if you got stuck 794 00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:04,719 Speaker 1: in there accidentally, are caught unawares, get dumped in there, 795 00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:08,799 Speaker 1: and then get crushed to a certain extent. His the 796 00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:12,520 Speaker 1: injuries that are shown on that report, like crushed ribs, 797 00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:16,439 Speaker 1: like he appeared to have been beaten up. But I'm 798 00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:19,640 Speaker 1: wondering this sounds so silly, and I do, and I 799 00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:22,920 Speaker 1: don't mean to discount the work of any corner of 800 00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:26,560 Speaker 1: any medical examiners, But like I'm I'm I'm trying to 801 00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:29,760 Speaker 1: imagine how much damage would be done to a human 802 00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:33,759 Speaker 1: body if it went through that process. If you're in 803 00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:38,239 Speaker 1: a lot of fairly malleable trash, how much would a 804 00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:42,080 Speaker 1: human body actually get crushed. Would it be to the 805 00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:46,879 Speaker 1: extent where you wouldn't recognize the damage was being done 806 00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:50,680 Speaker 1: because you would have differing points hitting the body, right. Like, 807 00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:54,440 Speaker 1: I know, it's weird to get into the physics of 808 00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:57,440 Speaker 1: what that would be like, but I'm just in my mind, like, 809 00:51:57,520 --> 00:52:00,680 Speaker 1: what if it was just him being in that compactor 810 00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:04,440 Speaker 1: that caused the damage? Tell me if that's I just 811 00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:07,120 Speaker 1: don't know. It's not stupid at all. But even if 812 00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:09,560 Speaker 1: the thing is, even if that's the case, it doesn't 813 00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:16,839 Speaker 1: explain some of those other things leading up to the devise, right, So, um, 814 00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:19,319 Speaker 1: if it is, if it is something like that, it's 815 00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:21,960 Speaker 1: it's still I would say, no, less tragic. That's a 816 00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:25,120 Speaker 1: horrible way to go, especially when you're already having what 817 00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:31,439 Speaker 1: appears to be a very hectic and unpleasant series of days. Uh. Yeah, 818 00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:35,800 Speaker 1: it's quite It's quite possible. It's also possible that maybe 819 00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:40,480 Speaker 1: he was beaten before. Uh maybe maybe he was beaten 820 00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:43,759 Speaker 1: near to the point of death and then escaped into 821 00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:47,520 Speaker 1: a dumpster to hide. It is possible. Again, all the 822 00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:51,120 Speaker 1: things that we're saying right now are possible but not 823 00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:54,200 Speaker 1: not proven. You know, there there are questions that have 824 00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:58,000 Speaker 1: just become tougher to answer over time, because again, in 825 00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:02,520 Speaker 1: my opinion. Uh, something was up with the investigation on 826 00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:05,479 Speaker 1: some level. What what would you say about that, Mat, Yeah, 827 00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:09,000 Speaker 1: I mean from what we found there from Kevin Kelly, 828 00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:13,319 Speaker 1: that seems off. That seems really really off. This was 829 00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:17,360 Speaker 1: a high profile person that was you know, appeared to 830 00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:20,400 Speaker 1: be beloved in many circles, especially in the upper echelons 831 00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:23,520 Speaker 1: of at least the Republican Party. Um, if not you know, 832 00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:29,799 Speaker 1: the without using the phrase deep state, the the non 833 00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:35,839 Speaker 1: elected parts of the government, right right, Uh? Yeah. One 834 00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:40,120 Speaker 1: one thing is for sure. Something about this, if not 835 00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:46,479 Speaker 1: the direct murder or homicide accidental death, something about this 836 00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:52,960 Speaker 1: appears orchestrated. It appears that someone had a plan and 837 00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:55,600 Speaker 1: whatever this was, it was not a random break in 838 00:53:56,160 --> 00:54:00,760 Speaker 1: and a random mugging. Uh. Something, Something was play, something 839 00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:05,440 Speaker 1: was afoot. But what you know, Matt, I, I know 840 00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:10,040 Speaker 1: we're in deep water here because we're we're exchanging theories, 841 00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:16,480 Speaker 1: we're sharing possibilities. But without access to more information or 842 00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:21,439 Speaker 1: a deathbed confession or something, I think everybody is at 843 00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:24,799 Speaker 1: a loss to explain this. A lot of the things 844 00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:30,040 Speaker 1: we just mentioned are currently equally plausible or equally possible. 845 00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:32,480 Speaker 1: I should say, Well, we want to know what you 846 00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:37,399 Speaker 1: think what happened to John Parsons Wheeler the third right 847 00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:39,719 Speaker 1: to us. You can find us on Facebook. You can 848 00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:42,839 Speaker 1: find us on Twitter. Were conspiracy Stuff at both of those. 849 00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:47,560 Speaker 1: On Instagram, we are Conspiracy Stuff Show. You can also 850 00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:50,799 Speaker 1: head on over to our Facebook group Here's where it 851 00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:53,319 Speaker 1: Gets Crazy. I you like that. It's just like our 852 00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:56,520 Speaker 1: segment that's been on the show since the beginning. You 853 00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:59,400 Speaker 1: can go over there and hang out with listeners just 854 00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:03,400 Speaker 1: like you have discussions. You will be surprised at how 855 00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:07,440 Speaker 1: excellent and online discussion can be about topics like this. 856 00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:13,160 Speaker 1: It's it's wonderful, highly recommended and an update from from 857 00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:17,520 Speaker 1: the Here's where it Gets Crazy front Apparently, Uh, there's 858 00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:20,319 Speaker 1: talk about writing a stuff they don't want you to know, 859 00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:27,640 Speaker 1: a piece of fan fiction. Yeah, yeah, so romantic. I 860 00:55:27,719 --> 00:55:30,600 Speaker 1: don't know. We're we're not in charge of This is 861 00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:36,319 Speaker 1: from Holly, one of your fellow listens, So we we 862 00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:39,480 Speaker 1: will be having it. We will be figuring it out 863 00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:43,640 Speaker 1: at the same time you do, folks. Uh. One nice note. 864 00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:48,239 Speaker 1: It looks like this might be used potentially to raise 865 00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:52,839 Speaker 1: money for some charities in the Marshall Islands, so being 866 00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:55,560 Speaker 1: for a good cause. Um, but yeah, that's that's the 867 00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:57,880 Speaker 1: that's some of the stuff that you will see on 868 00:55:58,040 --> 00:56:01,640 Speaker 1: here's where it gets crazy. If you are not given 869 00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:06,680 Speaker 1: to exploring social media, totally get it. You can call 870 00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:10,160 Speaker 1: us directly. We have a phone line that we are 871 00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:14,320 Speaker 1: doing a great job at. Now keep you track of Uh. 872 00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:17,920 Speaker 1: It is one eight three three st d w y 873 00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:21,800 Speaker 1: t k UH. You call, you'll hear a voicemail message 874 00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:24,200 Speaker 1: telling you you're in the right place. You get three minutes. 875 00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:28,720 Speaker 1: They belong to you. Uh. Do what thou wilt shall 876 00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:33,319 Speaker 1: be the whole of the telephone law. But but we 877 00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:35,680 Speaker 1: do have a Yeah, but we have a couple of 878 00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:38,919 Speaker 1: recommendations that may be helpful for you if you find 879 00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:42,480 Speaker 1: yourself kind of like scrambling. Oh yeah, first thing, go 880 00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:44,439 Speaker 1: ahead and tell us what you want us to call 881 00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:46,120 Speaker 1: you on air. Doesn't have to be your real name. 882 00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:50,239 Speaker 1: Whatever you want Malkovich is fine, We'll just call everybody Malkovich. 883 00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:53,240 Speaker 1: Then let us know if we can use your message 884 00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:55,880 Speaker 1: on the air. Um, really, I mean, if you call it, 885 00:56:56,640 --> 00:56:58,440 Speaker 1: I don't want to limit you. If you call in, 886 00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:00,960 Speaker 1: we really want to use it on the are. Just 887 00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:04,480 Speaker 1: let us know if it's okay. Then after that, tell 888 00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:06,799 Speaker 1: us your message. Try and keep it as brief as 889 00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:10,359 Speaker 1: you possibly can. If you end up needing to, you know, 890 00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:13,400 Speaker 1: tell a longer story or something, we would recommend rather 891 00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:16,479 Speaker 1: than leaving it on the voicemail, go ahead and send 892 00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:18,439 Speaker 1: us an email. And many of you have been doing 893 00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:21,520 Speaker 1: this already. Thank you so much for listening and for 894 00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:24,200 Speaker 1: just you know, doing this. It really does help us out. 895 00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:27,080 Speaker 1: We can We can get through an email message pretty quickly. 896 00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:29,600 Speaker 1: If you want to send us an email, it's really easy. 897 00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:33,400 Speaker 1: Shoot us a message. We are conspiracy at i heart 898 00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:54,760 Speaker 1: radio dot com. Stuff they don't want you to know 899 00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:58,000 Speaker 1: is a production of I heart Radio. 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