1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. 4 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, 5 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 2: my name is Nolh. 6 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 3: They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our 7 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 3: super producer, Dylan the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you 8 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 3: are you. You are here. That makes this the stuff 9 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 3: they don't want you to know. In a rare two 10 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 3: part episode, we are diving into the darkly disturbing, the 11 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 3: frankly terrifying story of something called the Ludlow massacre. And 12 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 3: when we're talking off air, you know, we realized that 13 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 3: this had to be a two part episode because there 14 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 3: was so much to get to, especially the aftermath and implications. 15 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a ton of details here. What we recorded 16 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 2: for like an hour forty or something overall on this episode. Yeah, 17 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:24,040 Speaker 2: it was. It's a long conversation. 18 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 3: It goes in a lot of directions. We all have 19 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 3: a lot to say about this. We also please, we 20 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:35,960 Speaker 3: I always said, exhort, We plead with you, fellow conspiracy 21 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 3: realist to check out episode one or part one of 22 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 3: this episode before you dive into episode two. 23 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because the context is everything, and then applying 24 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 2: that context and these specific things that occurred back in 25 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 2: nineteen fourteen to two twenty twenty four and just what 26 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 2: we're going through now, this is important stuff. 27 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 4: One hundred percent. So let's jump right back into this 28 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 4: episode on the Ledlow massacre already in progress. 29 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 3: Look, the bullwood Feltz folks got up to some pretty 30 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 3: nasty stuff, especially in the tent colonies, including Ludlow, but 31 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 3: including other ten colonies because there were multiple. They would 32 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 3: have these big search lights and they would wait until 33 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 3: late at night and they would just roam the search 34 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,080 Speaker 3: lights around the tents. Again, these are canvas tents, so 35 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 3: the whole tent lights up. They would also they built 36 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 3: a special evil car, an armored car called the Death 37 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 3: Special that had a machine gun mounted on it, and 38 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 3: they would drive by the edges of the cap and 39 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 3: just rat through the windows or through the tent. 40 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 4: I don't think it's this exact agency that's depicted, but 41 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 4: a lot of this kind of behavior is very well, 42 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:55,119 Speaker 4: kind of dramatized in that Woody Got three movie. 43 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 3: I was talking about Bound from Glory m Yeah, and 44 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 3: I can see it in that from you know, these 45 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 3: very real events. They were also detaining people, they were 46 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:11,679 Speaker 3: doing sniper attacks, sometimes some folks who might be union leadership, 47 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:12,639 Speaker 3: and at the whole the. 48 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:13,919 Speaker 4: Whole time, assassinations. 49 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 2: I mean, most of this is intimidation, like that's you 50 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 2: can see that, that's what they're doing. But some of 51 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 2: it is, like I'm assuming, going after lives. 52 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, people died. And then at the same time, you know, 53 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 3: the so called scab workers. We have to give them 54 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 3: a moment. They're like anybody else, They're just trying to 55 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 3: have a job, and they've probably already traversed hundreds of miles, 56 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 3: probably in an immigration situation or leaving, you know, a 57 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 3: very dangerous rural situation. They're they're saying, I'm not the enemy, 58 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 3: but the union is saying, if you're not with us, 59 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 3: then you're against us. And so there are also fatal 60 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 3: confrontations between union workers on strike and the so called scabs. 61 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 3: So this is very dirty business all around. This is 62 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 3: the dawn of something that is much larger in scope. 63 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 3: It's called the Colorado Whole Field War. Again, not in 64 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 3: your history textbooks at least in grade school or if 65 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,159 Speaker 3: you had I don't know if you somehow had Howard 66 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 3: Zen at your career day. Yeah, do you think he 67 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 3: does or did career days? Sure, that'd be cool. I 68 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 3: would do. I missed doing career days. I used to 69 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 3: do them all the time. Have you guys ever done one? 70 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 4: I haven't. I mean I've participated in one on the 71 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 4: you know, student end of it when I was a kid. 72 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 4: But that'd be a lot of fun. I would love 73 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 4: to go and talk about the wonderful world of podcast. 74 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:43,839 Speaker 3: You guys can come with me next time if you want. 75 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 3: Why do you do this? 76 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 2: I've done like single days out of school, like a 77 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 2: career talk, like, hey, let's talk to this guy. Tell 78 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 2: us about your job. 79 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:53,239 Speaker 5: Dad. 80 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 3: That's in me. 81 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 5: Damn. 82 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 3: I do those things. I've been doing those for a 83 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 3: long time. And you know, once you accept that you 84 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:06,239 Speaker 3: are never going to be the most popular career Day guest, 85 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 3: then it's a wonderful opportunity. It's really cool. Hang. The 86 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 3: most popular guest is always the guy with the fire 87 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 3: truck boom the fire truck. He runs the game. He 88 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 3: is the Rockefeller of career day. 89 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 2: Do you make like a poster of three? A trifle? 90 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:28,280 Speaker 2: Poster board says like podcasts the Future of Radio. 91 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 3: The first time I did it, I played some videos 92 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 3: that we have worked on and I gave out a 93 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 3: bunch of house stuff works swag. Nice or the first 94 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 3: time I did it for this occupation. And you know, 95 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 3: if you got the swag, then you got the crowd 96 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 3: in grade school at least it probably works in college too, right, 97 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 3: Who doesn't want a free T shirt. 98 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:53,599 Speaker 2: Shot glasses that just say listen to the cast, like 99 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 2: and subscribe shotglasses. Yeah for the college kids. 100 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:01,039 Speaker 3: Okay, well, you know, if we get a price break 101 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,599 Speaker 3: on the shot glasses, maybe we can get away with 102 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 3: it in grade school, like give this to your parents. 103 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 2: Mm hmm. 104 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 3: What could go wrong? That's the question Colorado Governor Elias 105 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 3: m Ammon's asked when this violence is continuing to escalate. 106 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 3: And again, you know, the story is often explained in 107 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 3: terms of the men who are working as miners or 108 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 3: working for this detective agency or these local guards. But 109 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:33,720 Speaker 3: we have to remember there were many more women and children. Right. 110 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 3: The population is much bigger than it sounds when you 111 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,599 Speaker 3: hear some of these round numbers. The governor calls in 112 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 3: the Colorado National Guard, yes, a militia. On October twenty 113 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 3: eighth and at first the Guard seemed kind of calm, 114 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 3: but later evidence would show that the Guard troopers were, 115 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:55,480 Speaker 3: in fact a lot of them being paid the under 116 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:58,279 Speaker 3: the table by Colorado Fuel and Iron. 117 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 2: Gee, that's it's weird. How could that happen? 118 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 3: I mean, think of it this way, like the Dave 119 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 3: and Busters example. So we're in that daven Buster's company town, 120 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 3: we strike, and we say pay us dollars, and then 121 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 3: the Atlanta Police Department comes in, or the Georgia Troopers 122 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 3: come in, as a better example, and they crack down 123 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 3: on us, and it turns out that they're getting paid 124 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 3: by Dave and Busters. 125 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 2: Dave, why Buster? 126 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 3: No? Your name is so fun. An example of this 127 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 3: would be the adjutant there we go General for the 128 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 3: National Guard on the case, John Chase. John Chase has, 129 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 3: similar to Baldwin Felt, he has a reputation for breaking strikes. 130 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 3: About a decade earlier, he was involved during the Cripple 131 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 3: Creek strike, which is its own own back of badgers. 132 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 3: And there are a couple of inciting events, right, and 133 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 3: these kind of things you always look for what the 134 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 3: pivotal moment is, right, what is the cause of belly 135 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 3: or belly. On March tenth, nineteen fourteen, one of the 136 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 3: scab worker bodies is found on the railroad tracks near Forbes, Colorado, 137 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 3: and Forbes also has a tent colony a little smaller 138 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 3: than Ludlow. What happens when they find the body. 139 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 4: So the guard blamed the strikers, which, Matt, you made 140 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 4: a point off, Mike, that certainly would be an obvious, 141 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 4: first choice, first line of questioning, given the controversy and 142 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 4: the fact that there's a lot of there's no love 143 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 4: loss between the union members and these quote unquote scabs. 144 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:44,319 Speaker 3: Yeah, and so they decide to retaliate, and. 145 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, they go in and they just talk to people right, calmly. 146 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 3: Well they would have if they were worried about what 147 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 3: we call proportional response, but they're not. Instead, they completely 148 00:08:55,400 --> 00:09:00,440 Speaker 3: destroy the nearby tent colony. Oh over in Forbes. The 149 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 3: strikers are just further galvanized by this, because usually in 150 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 3: these situations you'll see a growth in unity and commitment 151 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 3: to a cause before you break the back, right, and 152 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 3: so the violence escalates. It's nineteen fourteen and Colorado Fuel 153 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 3: and Iron is starting to run their numbers. You know, 154 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 3: they're Q two or Q three numbers, and they say 155 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 3: it's actually getting too expensive for us to maintain these troops, 156 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:36,679 Speaker 3: and so in step with the politicians the governor, they 157 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 3: decrease the amount of National Guard on the ground and 158 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 3: this results in an increase in violence because now more 159 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 3: of those fatal conflicts can occur. 160 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 2: YEP. And then on Sunday, April nineteenth, so that's like 161 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 2: just a month and change afterwards, in nineteen fourteen, the 162 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 2: National Guard creates a big circle around the camp, so 163 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 2: they're stationed all around the camp. Basic there's no way 164 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 2: to run, no direction out of the camp. You can 165 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:07,560 Speaker 2: run without running past some National guardsmen. And they also 166 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:11,839 Speaker 2: install a machine gun, so we're talking like military grade 167 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 2: weapons on a bluff above the camp, so overlooking the camp. Basically, 168 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 2: if anything happens down there, this machine gun can probably 169 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 2: reach you with. 170 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 3: Its bullets higher elevation. So yeah, let's step back a 171 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 3: little because I like that we're pointing out there's a 172 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 3: murkiness to it. The climax of this part of the 173 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:36,319 Speaker 3: war is at that Ludlow ten colony. It's April nineteenth 174 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:40,200 Speaker 3: when they install the machine gun. Wee hours almost April twentieth. 175 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 3: The next day, the National Guard does attack to that 176 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 3: earlier point. No one sure exactly what instigated the violence, 177 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:52,079 Speaker 3: but the most popular account you can find in historical 178 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 3: records says that the day after some members of the 179 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 3: colony celebrated the Orthodox Easter, three guardsmen approached the camp, 180 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 3: so there's no firing yet, and they say, hey, you're 181 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 3: holding someone against their will. Let them go. Go fish, 182 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 3: We don't have the person you're looking for. The leader 183 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 3: of the camp is a guy named Louis Tikas Tikas, 184 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 3: and he gets an offer from these guardsmen. At the 185 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 3: same time, they say, hey, come meet us about a 186 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 3: half mile away in Ludlow Village. This is getting out 187 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 3: of control, right, just for the good of the families, 188 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 3: let's talk true. So come meet our leader, Major Patrick J. 189 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 3: Hamrock dumb last name, it's his real last name. 190 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 4: Maybe a little nominate determinism there too, And they meet 191 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 4: at a train station in Ludlow Village, about a half 192 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 4: mile from the colony. And while this meeting was going down, 193 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 4: two separate militias, the ones running that machine gun, take 194 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 4: positions strategic positions along a rail route about half a 195 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 4: mile south of blood Log and it's not almost like 196 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:03,960 Speaker 4: they're laying the groundwork for an ambush, right. 197 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 3: So at the same time, simultaneously, concurrently there are miners 198 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 3: Union miners who are armed Greek miners, and they begin 199 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 3: flanking this other arroyo. And when two of the militia 200 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 3: forces explosions occur later we'll learn outside of the fog war. 201 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 3: These are detonated to draw support from National Guard units, 202 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:35,320 Speaker 3: and these explosions alert the Ludlow tenth colony. Most of 203 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 3: the people have heard, you know, three National Guards are here, 204 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:43,439 Speaker 3: right and have seen someone trying to make that siege perimeter, 205 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:47,199 Speaker 3: but they don't really know what's happening, so they hear 206 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 3: the explosions. The miners at this point are pretty well 207 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 3: militarized themselves. They take up positions at the bottom of 208 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,559 Speaker 3: the hill right, So again the elevation here is a 209 00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:01,080 Speaker 3: big factor. The militia opens fire and then hundreds of 210 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 3: miners their families they run for cover. Chaos is raining. 211 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 3: Three of the strike leaders, including Tikas, are captured and 212 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,320 Speaker 3: killed by the Guard. It very much does seem like 213 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 3: the Guard lied to him. They conspired to lure tik 214 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:19,839 Speaker 3: Us out and never intended to make a truce. 215 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 2: There's reccounts that just say they're shot and left to 216 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 2: their left where they died. Right, They just left their 217 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:31,959 Speaker 2: bodies there. They didn't do anything ceremoniously. They didn't pick 218 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 2: up their bodies and take them to you know, whatever 219 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 2: hospital or you know, whatever medical assistance they were there. 220 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 2: They just shot them and their bodies fell. 221 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, the bodies hit the floor. The strikers are out 222 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 3: gunned and they're you know, they're exercising gutty tactics, but 223 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 3: they run out of ammo with that. 224 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:53,680 Speaker 2: Let's take a quick break here a word from our sponsors, 225 00:13:53,760 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 2: and return with more on the Ludlow massacre. And we're back. 226 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 3: And so a lot of people retreat to the countryside 227 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 3: right to gather forces and figure out their next step. 228 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 3: A lot of women and children, because they've already had 229 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 3: this siege mentality. A lot of women and children hide 230 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 3: in cellars that have been dug beneath these canvas tents. 231 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 2: Because they're bullets flying right. 232 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 3: Right, and these are not the fancy pants cellars of 233 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 3: old New England. These are holes in the ground. The 234 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 3: guard responds by dousing the tents and kerosene and setting 235 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 3: them a flame. 236 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 2: And the big question for history here is how yeah, 237 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 2: how awhere were they that most of these tents had 238 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 2: something dug beneath them Because of the cold that we 239 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 2: talked about, one of the main ways to get away 240 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 2: from that cold is to go a bit underground. And like, 241 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 2: did any of those National guards men know? It seems 242 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 2: like one person could have raised their hand and said, hey, whoa, whoa. 243 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 2: But again, this is a big movement. These are a 244 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 2: lot of National guardsmen doing this is not one or 245 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 2: two dowsing with kerosene and then setting fires. It's going 246 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 2: through and systematically clearing this tent. 247 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 3: The banality of evil which we discussed earlier, I was 248 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 3: just following orders. Yeah, we have to remember the National 249 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 3: Guard here is pulled from people who are loosely familiar 250 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 3: with the area. It was not an uncommon practice, especially 251 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 3: in inclement weather, to dig into the ground like that. So 252 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 3: it is possible that they didn't know or didn't think 253 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 3: about it in the heat of the heat of the conflict, 254 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 3: but it is it begs probability right to say that 255 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 3: it didn't occur once. I mean, especially in just one 256 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 3: cellar alone. There were eleven children and two women found 257 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 3: burned and suffocated to death, body so mangled that it's 258 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 3: impossible to know which of these tortures events actually killed them. 259 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's likely that just the flames above them, 260 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 2: filling that cellar with smoke got to them. 261 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 3: First, the oxygen out as well. 262 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, So are you saying they thought the tents were 263 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 4: empty because they weren't aware of the dugout cellars or 264 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 4: it's by design, like I mean, they were they were 265 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 4: intending to burn. 266 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 6: People alive, basically, right, it's highly It is cartoonishly unlikely 267 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:38,840 Speaker 6: that they would not have thought about people having cellars 268 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 6: dug under the tents. 269 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 3: It is incredibly unlikely. 270 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 4: Where do they think they were? Like, I mean it, 271 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 4: don't you know? 272 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 2: I mean, I agree with you. It's it's hard for 273 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 2: me to come to grips with knowing how bad of 274 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 2: a situation it would be for the company, Right, that's 275 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 2: once gets out that women and children were burn their 276 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:08,160 Speaker 2: lives like that, So it's hard for me to grasp like, well, 277 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 2: was it on purpose? Was it an accident or was 278 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:14,399 Speaker 2: it just oversight? Or I mean, are they trying to 279 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:18,160 Speaker 2: send a message to the striking miners will kill your family. 280 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 3: At least some of at least some of them had 281 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 3: to know because this has burned the village to save 282 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 3: the village type stuff. This is insidious kind of total 283 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 3: war because you're removing any infrastructure. I mean. In total, 284 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 3: the massacre resulted in twenty five deaths, three of whom 285 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 3: were National Guard troops, and there was media on the 286 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 3: scene and photographs of the ten colonies because this tension 287 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 3: had been rising for a while in the Colorado Coalfield War. 288 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 3: There are reports you could see on the ground about 289 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 3: this from a New York Times reporter talking about that 290 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 3: a bit off air, so the deaths were a matter 291 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 3: of national interest. The rest of the country knew about this, 292 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 3: and most people blamed John D. Rockefeller Junior, because you know, 293 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:07,160 Speaker 3: for years, this guy has not really cared about where 294 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 3: his money's coming from. He's out in some fancy pants 295 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 3: part of New York and he's just saying, mall col 296 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 3: bring me more cold, and that's actually pretty close to 297 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 3: what he was doing. 298 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:23,160 Speaker 4: And to your point, Matt, at this point it becomes 299 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 4: a major optics problem, like a major PR disaster, and 300 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 4: that's more the issue than the actual lives lost. You know, 301 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 4: as far as the company is concerned, I would argue, 302 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:36,680 Speaker 4: I mean, you know, of course they're gonna, in their 303 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 4: pr response probably address the egregious oversights and the over 304 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:46,160 Speaker 4: zealousness of National guardsmen, and how you know their hearts 305 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 4: are with the families. But you know, it's all kind of. 306 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 3: Smoking mirrors if you haves in prayers, right, are you guys? Okay? 307 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 3: If I read just one short excerpt from this New 308 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:56,919 Speaker 3: York Times article, of course. 309 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 2: Oh absolutely absolutely. 310 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:03,920 Speaker 3: April twenty first, the day after the massacre nineteen fourteen. Quote. 311 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 3: Just get a sense. Imagine you're a member of the public, right, 312 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:10,119 Speaker 3: you've never been to Colorado. This is how you're learning 313 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 3: about this. The lud Blow Camp is a massive charred 314 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,120 Speaker 3: debris and buried beneath it is a story of horror 315 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 3: imparalleled in the history of industrial warfare. In the holes 316 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 3: which have been dug for their protection against the rifles fire, 317 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,919 Speaker 3: the women and children died like trapped rats when the 318 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 3: flames swept over them. Now you're just somebody in Florida 319 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:36,919 Speaker 3: reading this, right, You're just somebody on the West coast 320 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 3: or in Chicago or something. This is how you're learning 321 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 3: about the disastrous, heartbreaking result here that comes entirely from 322 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:48,919 Speaker 3: corporate corruption and stuff. 323 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 4: Like this that really demonstrates the power of the press 324 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:54,920 Speaker 4: and like how important it is for that poetic description 325 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 4: to go around painfully poetic description where it really starts 326 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:04,200 Speaker 4: to make people understand the stakes and almost for the 327 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 4: first time, perhaps see the evil of the situation. 328 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:10,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to call out our source here, just 329 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 2: because we're talking about how the internet archive is down 330 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 2: and it's really hard to locate that actual New York 331 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:18,959 Speaker 2: Times article unless you're going to a place to find it. 332 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 3: You can see a great compilation from PBS, right American Experience. 333 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, So you can look up PBS American Experience, Rockefellers, 334 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 2: the Ludlow Massacre, and you can find that specific excerpt 335 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 2: that we just read. But there's also all kinds of 336 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,440 Speaker 2: other interesting stuff in there in a couple of New 337 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 2: York Times articles from nineteen fourteen that you can find, 338 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 2: but they are mostly a part of the aftermath with 339 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:48,639 Speaker 2: like the Rockefellers coming through and trying to I guess 340 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:50,360 Speaker 2: spin this a little bit. 341 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a pr stuff I was talking about earlier. Yeah, 342 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 3: it's a different conspiracy, right, And you can see in 343 00:20:56,080 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 3: there also Rockefeller's timeline, where he appears to be rethinking things, 344 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:08,479 Speaker 3: also speaks with Congress. The America is watching this in rage, 345 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:13,400 Speaker 3: in astonishment. And you don't have to be pro union, right, 346 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:15,919 Speaker 3: there were not everybody was pro union back then? Right then? 347 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 3: Is now you don't have to be pro union to 348 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 3: object to the indiscriminate murder of civilians. And these folks 349 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 3: aren't doing anything wrong. They're not a threat to the 350 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:28,359 Speaker 3: law enforcement of the militia. They're literally hiding in the 351 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 3: ground and try not to die. 352 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 4: And again to see something to see it's so starkly 353 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 4: that something is very, very broken in this system and 354 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 4: that something has to. 355 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 3: Change, right, that's the idea. Something must be done, and 356 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 3: it continues. The aftermath of this massacre, even though the 357 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 3: public already knows about it, is even worse. This is 358 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 3: followed by something called the Ten Day War, which is 359 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 3: again part of the larger Colorado Coalfield War. So miners 360 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:03,360 Speaker 3: are retaliating for this massacre. Lies. People have lost family members, right, 361 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 3: friends that barely survived, and they say, look, it's now, 362 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 3: it's on site. Right, the time for speaking has passed. 363 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:18,680 Speaker 3: We are attacking anti union town officials. We're attacking strike breakers, 364 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:22,160 Speaker 3: the overseers, the people are running the mines. They take 365 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:26,479 Speaker 3: control of an area about fifty miles long five miles wide. 366 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 3: All in all, fifty people die during this ten day war, 367 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 3: and ultimately it reaches a guy named Woodrow Wilson who 368 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:37,639 Speaker 3: did a couple other things, but one time he was 369 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:38,479 Speaker 3: US president. 370 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:42,440 Speaker 4: Not particularly popular when it comes to super producer Max 371 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 4: Williams of. 372 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:44,680 Speaker 3: The Ningians History podcast. 373 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, guy was kind of a pill. 374 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 3: Yeah. I like the name Woodrow, but which ruined it 375 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 3: for everybody. 376 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:55,639 Speaker 4: Funny. His boyhood home is actually in my hometown of Augusta, Georgia, 377 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 4: and I once lived on the corner of Woodrow and Wilson. 378 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 3: Yea who That's one of those things where every so 379 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 3: much stuff in the neighborhood gets named after the guy. 380 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 3: Like there's a small town in Tennessee where I want 381 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 3: to say it was it was Johnson or Jackson. But 382 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,160 Speaker 3: there's there's a town. We'll follow up on this later. 383 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,640 Speaker 3: There's a town where everything is named after that guy. 384 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 3: It's a small town. I only know about it because 385 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,119 Speaker 3: I have family living there, and if you ask the 386 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:27,119 Speaker 3: people who live there, like, hey, yeh sure, like this 387 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 3: president they all say no, the only town is now 388 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:34,640 Speaker 3: so he's unpopular. 389 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,159 Speaker 2: But there's a street right out right around where I 390 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,119 Speaker 2: live called generally. 391 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,959 Speaker 3: Eventually, well, as we were talking about it earlier, they 392 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 3: don't specify which generally that it could be, you know, 393 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,199 Speaker 3: like a law about a Russian president, just that a 394 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:54,639 Speaker 3: general general is. 395 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:59,640 Speaker 6: Named after generally the name Lee, yes, yes, yeah, specifically 396 00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:01,920 Speaker 6: is a different cul de sac, but the. 397 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 4: Perhaps Lady Gaga's character from the New Joker film. 398 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,639 Speaker 3: I'm gonna skip it, I think. But okay, So the 399 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:14,640 Speaker 3: President Woodrow Wilson makes the decision to send in federal troops. Luckily, 400 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 3: these troops are paid by the US government actually, and 401 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 3: not by a corporate mining interest, so they're able to 402 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 3: somewhat well. The disaster and strike negotiations reach an ending point. 403 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 3: They end peacefully on December tenth of that same year. 404 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:38,399 Speaker 3: But the strikers don't really get any of those seven again, 405 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,919 Speaker 3: very reasonable demands they made in the first place. A 406 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 3: lot of them go to get arrested. 407 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, and four hundred of them go to trials which 408 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 4: last until nineteen twenty, though none were convicted. 409 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 2: That's so crazy to me, all this strife, all this 410 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 2: loss of life all of the I didn't mean to 411 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 2: rhyme that, you guys, but all of this terrible stuff happened, 412 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:06,879 Speaker 2: and the strikers don't get anything, and then the state 413 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 2: in the country attempt to take all these people to 414 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 2: court and nobody gets convicted. Just what was it for? 415 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:21,680 Speaker 3: I mean, absolutely nothing, right, geous it Also we also 416 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 3: see that there was one guy, a fellow leader of 417 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:30,400 Speaker 3: the strike called John Art Lawson. He's convicted of murder, 418 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 3: but eventually, once the story moves from the headlines, his 419 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 3: conviction is overturned. There were some like twenty twenty two 420 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 3: National guardsmen originally in trouble. They were going to be 421 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:45,359 Speaker 3: court martialed, they got exonerated. Congress held a bunch of 422 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 3: hearings and didn't do anything. 423 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 4: Jeez, what were the charges against some of these miners. 424 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 4: They were like being accused of inciting a riot or 425 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,880 Speaker 4: of like you know, openly firing on the people who 426 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 4: firing on them, which I would argue is self defense. 427 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 3: Murder, assault, vandalism, destruction of property, maybe theft in some cases. 428 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 4: But similar to the Leonard Peltzier story we were talking about, 429 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 4: where it's like you just because you have a government 430 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 4: agency descending on you and firing on you does not 431 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 4: make their cause legitimate. And it's at a certain point 432 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 4: they are coming for your life and you have to 433 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,200 Speaker 4: defend yourself and not think about the fact that it's 434 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,880 Speaker 4: a government subsidized or perhaps even part of the government. 435 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 3: This is a national Guard we're talking about here, right, 436 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:34,399 Speaker 3: the Colorado. 437 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:38,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, all right, let's take a quick pause here hear 438 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 4: a word from our sponsor, and then come back to 439 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 4: the Ludlow massacre and we have return. 440 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:55,680 Speaker 3: Let's jump right back in. Okay, now we know there's 441 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 3: one big thing that's on all of our minds. Fellow 442 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 3: conspiracy realist, Whatever happened to this poor Rockefeller guy? You 443 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,160 Speaker 3: know what I mean? Yeah, he went through so much 444 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:11,200 Speaker 3: he had to write letters. Take a letter he talks 445 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,440 Speaker 3: to Congress, right, dictated but not read by Rockefeller Junior. 446 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 3: He does make some tangible improvements. Ultimately, though, he decides 447 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 3: to make his own company sponsored union. Is that alternative 448 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,119 Speaker 3: mean classic capitalism? 449 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 2: Sure? 450 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,359 Speaker 4: But like I mean, it's just it's just kind of 451 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 4: lip service, right, I mean, it evolves understood. 452 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:39,879 Speaker 3: A better form, but in the beginning, I'm just it 453 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 3: makes me think of one of my favorite lines about capitalism. 454 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:47,879 Speaker 3: Capitalism is the one ideology that figured out. If you 455 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,159 Speaker 3: see someone say screw capitalism, you can print it on 456 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 3: a T shirt and sell that T shirt to them. 457 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, and here you go. I want to read this 458 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,640 Speaker 2: statement before we get to this last thing that we're 459 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:00,919 Speaker 2: going to say. Hear about John D. 460 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 3: Rockefeller. 461 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,359 Speaker 2: This is a statement that he made in June of 462 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 2: nineteen fourteen. So massacre occurs in April. This is in 463 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 2: June of nineteen fourteen. This is what Rockefeller stated happened. 464 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:19,880 Speaker 2: He says there was no Ludlow massacre. The entanglement started 465 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 2: as a desperate fight for life by two small squads 466 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 2: of militia against the entire tent colony. There were no 467 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 2: women or children shot by the authorities of the state 468 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:34,200 Speaker 2: or representatives of the operators. While this loss of life 469 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 2: is profoundly to be regretted, it is unjust in the 470 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 2: extreme to lay it at the door of the defenders 471 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 2: of law and property, who were in no slightest way 472 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 2: responsible for it. That thought of the defenders of law 473 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 2: and property isn't that doesn't that strike you, guys as 474 00:28:55,000 --> 00:29:00,160 Speaker 2: like representing what police forces are. The American dream be 475 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 2: defenders of law and property. 476 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, we've spoken about this before, sort of the the 477 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 3: legal standing or prioritization of law enforcement. Right, it comes 478 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 3: up pretty often in protest and. 479 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, well the good guys are the landowners and the 480 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 2: company owners, right, I mean in the at least in 481 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 2: this worldview that he puts out there in June of 482 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 2: nineteen fourteen. 483 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 3: And it comes back again in just like in that 484 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,880 Speaker 3: time and in this time, and in recent years, it 485 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 3: will always come up because it is a dilemma of 486 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 3: philosophic perspective. Right, everybody wants to be the main character. 487 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 3: Nobody wants to be the bad guy, right, And that 488 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 3: is that is an argument Rockefeller makes, and he realizes 489 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 3: that there is another war afoot, another conflict that a 490 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 3: lot of people aren't thinking about in terms of what 491 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 3: it is, which is an optics war, a war of 492 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 3: information and narrative. And this is where we see a 493 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 3: very strange era in public relations. Our buddy Johnny Dee 494 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 3: brings in a PR expert. He's in, Oh the peasants, 495 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 3: hey to me, not only in Colorado, but broad and 496 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,560 Speaker 3: the contacts is really innovative. Boober and Shaker, I'm not 497 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 3: being sarcastic, very smart person named Ivy Lee, and Ivy 498 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:26,959 Speaker 3: Lee says, look, we need an optics campaign, Johnny. You 499 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 3: need to go to Colorado yourself, and I need media there. 500 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 3: I need them to take pictures of you shaking the hands, 501 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 3: kissing the babies, hanging out at a church social. 502 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:39,320 Speaker 4: Shaking the babies, kissing the hands. 503 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:41,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, we need to we need don't shake them too heart. 504 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 3: We need to also have some peopil right, a glowing 505 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 3: kind of homespun exploration of your time, and you know, 506 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:53,800 Speaker 3: a picture you hearing grievances and responding to those. If 507 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 3: we could get you on a home tour, we'll find 508 00:30:56,200 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 3: you some Rockefeller friendly families. Do you walk with and 509 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 3: go through the facilities? The media loved it, Look said 510 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 3: America the dead so quickly forgotten Old Johnny. De's just 511 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 3: like us. We're not so different you and I. Geez 512 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 3: it worked. 513 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 2: Should we read another excerpt from the visit that we've 514 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:24,800 Speaker 2: got from September twentieth, nineteen fifteen, when Rockefeller's out there 515 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 2: talking to the men and women who run his iron 516 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 2: and coal company. We are all partners in a way 517 00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 2: that we were like alluding to, Yeah, do you want 518 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 2: to do. Would you mind doing that? I think you 519 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 2: do awesome. 520 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,400 Speaker 3: Well, thank you, Bett, I'm honored bless us with your 521 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 3: reading to play that to a type, to play the 522 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 3: villain here who didn't see himself as a villain. We 523 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 3: are all. 524 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 5: Partners in a way. Capital can't get along without you Min, 525 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 5: and you min can't get along without capital. When anybody 526 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 5: comes along and tells you that capital and labor can't 527 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 5: get along together, that man is your worst enemy. We 528 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 5: are getting along friendly enough here in his mind right now, 529 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 5: and there's no reason why you men cannot get along 530 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 5: with the managers of my company. 531 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 3: But I am back in New. 532 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 7: York migration just petrician that it was just like the 533 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 7: corporate the corporate structury of it too, the baking. 534 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 3: It answers the question, you know, like I'm not going 535 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:25,480 Speaker 3: to be here. 536 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, but look look how great we're getting along when 537 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 2: daddy's here, When Daddy goes home, and you guys could 538 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 2: get along and play just fine. 539 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 3: It does have that energy, right. It does seem to 540 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 3: the people thought, although we're cracking on him and he 541 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 3: deserves it, it does seem that people thought he was 542 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 3: making good faith efforts, you know, what do you guys think? 543 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 2: Well, I mean there were there were improvements made. The 544 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,920 Speaker 2: only counterpoint to it is that I and you kind 545 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 2: of alluded to this earlier ben the way it functions 546 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 2: in capitalism with something like this occurs, there are slight improvements. 547 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 2: You you push the needle just enough right now, the 548 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 2: new standard is there, but it's only moved slightly. 549 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 4: And something of this magnitude to even get that slight movement, 550 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 4: which is just so frustrating. 551 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, you need an Act of Congress, You need a 552 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 2: major event. You need something to occur where everybody can 553 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 2: look at it and say, oh, well, we need at 554 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 2: least that, right, And it's always at least that. 555 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, and the Overton windows shifts again, right, and not 556 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 3: for nothing? 557 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 4: You know. 558 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:36,800 Speaker 3: Well, some of the more cynical of us in the 559 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,959 Speaker 3: crowd say, isn't this like the old story about the 560 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 3: trees who kept voting for the axe to be president 561 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 3: of the forest. You know, the forest got smaller and smaller, 562 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,479 Speaker 3: but the trees would get together and they would say, 563 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,719 Speaker 3: you know, the axe isn't perfect, but that handles wouldn't. 564 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:59,480 Speaker 3: He's kind of like us. Oh god, it's an antique 565 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 3: that one hurts. Okay, Yeah, And I guess we have 566 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,960 Speaker 3: to ask to like, obviously, folks, we've made this in 567 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:09,360 Speaker 3: two parter. We know it's it's a little longer than usual, 568 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,120 Speaker 3: but we hope you find it worth your time. It's 569 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,880 Speaker 3: it's obviously very important to us as well, and we 570 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,879 Speaker 3: have to ask what this tells us about the modern day. 571 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 3: I hope I haven't over salted the soup. That doesn't 572 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:26,200 Speaker 3: make sense, all right, nobody likes the salty soup, but 573 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 3: we might might have mentioned it too much. But do 574 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,600 Speaker 3: we see some parallels here or some potential parallels? 575 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:34,279 Speaker 5: Oh? 576 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:34,840 Speaker 3: How could you? 577 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,879 Speaker 4: Of course, it sums the whole thing up, and it's 578 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,160 Speaker 4: just continued. The struggle continues. We mentioned the sugar industry 579 00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:47,440 Speaker 4: and how very very very similarly dangerous conditions and labor 580 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:51,279 Speaker 4: camp type scenarios still exist to this day. So that 581 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,959 Speaker 4: micro movement that you're talking about, Matt, I mean, it's 582 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:59,520 Speaker 4: still slow even to this day. And also I was 583 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,560 Speaker 4: gonna mention and earlier like it is technically illegal for 584 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:06,600 Speaker 4: companies to retaliate against you know, unionizing workers on paper, 585 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:09,520 Speaker 4: but you know, I have a dear friend who was 586 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,239 Speaker 4: recently on strike, you know, in the legal profession in 587 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,520 Speaker 4: New York City, and when he returned from strike, there 588 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,600 Speaker 4: is very clear retaliatory action taking place, because it's easy 589 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:22,080 Speaker 4: to hide it behind other actions, you know, and it's 590 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:26,680 Speaker 4: just it's hard to prove, and the advantage remains on 591 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:30,120 Speaker 4: the side of the companies, I think for full argument. 592 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:34,239 Speaker 3: Well, also, you know to that point this acquaintance of 593 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:38,840 Speaker 3: mine as well, and you're talking about proving retaliation means 594 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:43,480 Speaker 3: proving intent, and intent is very difficult to prove, especially 595 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,399 Speaker 3: when there are so many other things you could throw 596 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:51,719 Speaker 3: up at the screen as the reason. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 597 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,960 Speaker 2: Well, in the news as we're recording this, on October third, 598 00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:02,640 Speaker 2: the International Longshoreman's Association came to terms, and that's forty 599 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:06,640 Speaker 2: five thousand human beings who work in ports, like all 600 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 2: along the Gulf Coast and the East Coast of the 601 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:11,640 Speaker 2: United States. They were going to strike, and that was 602 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:16,400 Speaker 2: gonna be a massive deal for the United States of America. Like, 603 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 2: and we were talking about this offline a lot. We 604 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,359 Speaker 2: mentioned it, I think in a strange news but we 605 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,520 Speaker 2: were just mentioning the effects that would have on little 606 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:31,440 Speaker 2: things like our ability to get paper towels right and 607 00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 2: fresh fruit and things like that, and it would have 608 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:39,239 Speaker 2: massive effects on the lives of everybody, these forty five 609 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,000 Speaker 2: thousand people who were represented by this one union. But 610 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:46,200 Speaker 2: thankfully they came to a deal negotiated that basically said 611 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:49,040 Speaker 2: we're gonna postpone our strike until ear I think mid 612 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,839 Speaker 2: January of twenty twenty five. So let's get this deal 613 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:57,200 Speaker 2: done or you guys, the United States basically is in trouble. 614 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:01,200 Speaker 3: Right at least go to the negotiating team. And that 615 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,759 Speaker 3: is that leads us to other question. You know, has 616 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,520 Speaker 3: the era of the Pinkerton past. 617 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,560 Speaker 4: That I think that I think so, yeah, you can't 618 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:10,720 Speaker 4: crack skulls anymore. 619 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:13,280 Speaker 3: It's just in this obtree. 620 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:16,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, the optics of it are just too damaging, you know, 621 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:18,520 Speaker 4: maybe because of the public opinion and all that stuff. 622 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:20,320 Speaker 3: So, I mean, they have to tread more lightly. 623 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,360 Speaker 4: And a lot of these anti union, anti labor practices, 624 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,440 Speaker 4: I think the most egregious and outward ones we see 625 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:30,040 Speaker 4: are by companies like Amazon and their warehouse employees and 626 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:32,320 Speaker 4: things like that. But my point is they have to 627 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:33,680 Speaker 4: be a little more sneaky about it. 628 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that was my question. Is the age of 629 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,160 Speaker 3: the pinkered in past or has it simply evolved? And 630 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:42,839 Speaker 3: if it has passed to your point, then for how 631 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:45,960 Speaker 3: long is it a permanent passage or is it another 632 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 3: cyclical iteration? Because I think we see that these things 633 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:54,760 Speaker 3: come and go over time. You know, I don't think. 634 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 3: I don't think it's impossible that these kinds of tactics 635 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,680 Speaker 3: might return. We know they still happen in other parts 636 00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,160 Speaker 3: of the world, in other countries. You know, you don't 637 00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:07,960 Speaker 3: have to look far to see the merk squads that 638 00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:12,680 Speaker 3: certain energy interest will hire up to and including overthrowing 639 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:14,480 Speaker 3: a duly elected government, you know. 640 00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:17,200 Speaker 4: And then we also know that as the individuals and 641 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:19,760 Speaker 4: parties and what have you who hold power kind of shift, 642 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 4: it's possible to roll that stuff back, you know, whether 643 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:27,600 Speaker 4: it be oversights of industry, regulations and things like that 644 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:29,960 Speaker 4: that can be rolled back. You're not wrong, man, But 645 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:33,440 Speaker 4: I do see a future, given an a radical enough shift, 646 00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:35,680 Speaker 4: maybe not even that radical, where things like this sort 647 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:37,279 Speaker 4: of labor protection could shift as well. 648 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:42,359 Speaker 2: Guys, we need a new version of the Wire looking 649 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:44,600 Speaker 2: at you, David Simon, We need a new version that 650 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:49,799 Speaker 2: shows all this stuff from the longshoreman to the tycoons 651 00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,719 Speaker 2: in New York city to write just this shows all 652 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:54,040 Speaker 2: of this stuff working again. 653 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:56,120 Speaker 4: One season of The Wire though, was the first time 654 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,040 Speaker 4: I really understood the inner workings of long shoremen and 655 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:00,759 Speaker 4: a lot of that kind of stuff for the dock 656 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,359 Speaker 4: workers there in Baltimore. It's a really good point, as 657 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:07,759 Speaker 4: Simon is really great at kind of explaining the intricacies 658 00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,600 Speaker 4: of these kinds of relationships and then where the power 659 00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,160 Speaker 4: structures and all the different you know, involved parties kind 660 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 4: of lie. 661 00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:15,000 Speaker 3: It's a really really smart guy. 662 00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:17,719 Speaker 2: Well what does it look like now? And Ben, to 663 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,359 Speaker 2: your point, what does that look like when there are 664 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:25,440 Speaker 2: android law enforcement officers patrolling the docks, you know, and 665 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:26,520 Speaker 2: that kind of thing like. 666 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:31,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, and what does it look like in a surveillance state? Yeah? 667 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,560 Speaker 3: This is this is something that made this in our 668 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:38,759 Speaker 3: minds more than worthy of a two part episode. It 669 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:42,640 Speaker 3: seems this conspiracy and the Ludlow massacre tells us a 670 00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:44,799 Speaker 3: lot about the modern day, and we want to hear 671 00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:48,239 Speaker 3: your stories of similar off obscured history. One thing is 672 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:51,520 Speaker 3: for certain, from Haffa to Colorado, from longshoremen to the 673 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:55,440 Speaker 3: Pinkerton's history is chock full of the stuff they don't 674 00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:58,680 Speaker 3: want you to know. So hit us up with your 675 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,279 Speaker 3: stories from the u, US, from other countries, from any 676 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:05,120 Speaker 3: time in history. We try to be easy to find online. 677 00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,520 Speaker 4: Find us all over the internet on your platform of choice. 678 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,279 Speaker 4: We are conspiracy Stuff on Facebook, where you can join 679 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:13,799 Speaker 4: our Facebook group. Here's where it gets crazy. Let us 680 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:15,560 Speaker 4: know what you think about the episodes. Talk with your 681 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:19,200 Speaker 4: fellow conspiracy realists. The floor is yours. We are also 682 00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:22,600 Speaker 4: conspiracy stuff on xfka, Twitter, as well as YouTube, where 683 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,960 Speaker 4: you can find video content, colure for your enjoyment. On 684 00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:29,600 Speaker 4: Instagram and TikTok, however, we are Conspiracy and Stuff Show. 685 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:32,080 Speaker 2: Hey, do you want to call us and tell us 686 00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:36,400 Speaker 2: your thoughts? Like this thought from John Lawson, who was 687 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:40,160 Speaker 2: head of the United mind Workers in nineteen fifteen. Here 688 00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:44,720 Speaker 2: we go quote, mister Rockefeller has missed the fundamental trouble 689 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:48,239 Speaker 2: in the coal camps. Democracy has never existed among the 690 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:51,400 Speaker 2: men who toil under the ground. The coal companies have 691 00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:55,799 Speaker 2: stamped it out. Now, mister Rockefeller is not restoring democracy, 692 00:40:56,200 --> 00:41:01,200 Speaker 2: He's trying to substitute paternalism for it. I just thought 693 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,480 Speaker 2: that was a really interesting thought, an interesting quote. Do 694 00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:05,759 Speaker 2: you have an interesting thought or quote or something you 695 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:07,839 Speaker 2: want to say to us? Call one eight three three 696 00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:11,680 Speaker 2: std WYTK. When you call in, give yourself a cool 697 00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:14,120 Speaker 2: nickname and let us know on that message if we 698 00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:16,240 Speaker 2: can use your message and your voice on the air. 699 00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:18,120 Speaker 2: If you got more to say than can fit in 700 00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:20,640 Speaker 2: a three minute voicemail, why not instead send us a 701 00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:21,920 Speaker 2: good old fashioned email. 702 00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:25,320 Speaker 3: We are the entities that read every piece of correspondence 703 00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:27,840 Speaker 3: we receive. Be well aware, yet out of rate, sometimes 704 00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:31,440 Speaker 3: of void, writes back. Can't wait to hear your statements, 705 00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:36,120 Speaker 3: your stories. Send the most chilling quotes from the dictators 706 00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:39,160 Speaker 3: and patricians that you're aware of. Join us out here 707 00:41:39,200 --> 00:42:00,520 Speaker 3: in the dark conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com. 708 00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:02,880 Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't want you to Know is a production 709 00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:07,520 Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 710 00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:10,480 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.