1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from how Stuff Works 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: dot Com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. 3 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:16,759 Speaker 1: There's Charles W. Chuck Bryan over there, and there's Jerry 4 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 1: And this is Stuff you Should Know about dyslexia. How 5 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 1: are you doing good? Good? How are you? I'm doing 6 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: pretty good man, just you know, hanging out over here. Yeah, 7 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: ready to wrap. I thought this is pretty cool. I'm 8 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: surprised that we had not discussed this yet because it's 9 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: right upart alley totally very stuff you should know type show. Um, 10 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 1: and I think it's an interesting uh you know, I 11 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:47,959 Speaker 1: guess it's labeled a learning disorder most most definitely it's 12 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 1: a specific learning disorder according to the US government. Yeah. 13 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: I always just have a hard time, what you know, 14 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: knowing whether or not to like almost aid affliction them, like, 15 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: is that an affliction? I don't even know. I think 16 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: it's I think anybody with dyslexia and anybody, any expert 17 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 1: in the field would say it's a learning disability. It's 18 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: a specific learning disability that um that we're not entirely 19 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: certain what causes it, but most people would tell you 20 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 1: that typically it's considered a neurobiological condition. They think that 21 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: there's a basis to the brain that leads to this 22 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:32,039 Speaker 1: situation where otherwise um bright and um yep and intelligent 23 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:37,400 Speaker 1: students have what they call unexpected difficulty learning to read 24 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 1: and that it afflicts them their entire life. But there's 25 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: a lot of questions that's surround the definition. And one 26 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 1: of the problems with dyslexia research is that that's that's 27 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: that's not the official definition. There's about as many definitions 28 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: as there are studies of dyslexia. Yeah, this one from 29 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: Yale Center for Dyslexia and Creativity made sense to me 30 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 1: that as far as just sort of a simple way 31 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: to say it, uh, an unexpected difficulty in reading in 32 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: an individual who has the intelligence to be a much 33 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: better reader. So in other words, like this isn't adding up. 34 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: All the tools are there, um, and you should be 35 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 1: a better reader than you are, but you're not. So 36 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: why what gives? Yeah, So there's um, there's there's a 37 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 1: lot too that though, right, Like, there's this idea that 38 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: if if we know enough about the brain and we 39 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: have things like m r S and stuff like that, 40 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 1: so you would think that by now, since maybe the 41 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: nineties or whatever, we would have positively identified what it is. 42 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: But there's a confounding problem that they've run into and 43 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:46,640 Speaker 1: dyslexic read dyslexia research and we'll get into it more later, 44 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: but they haven't figured out if what they're looking at 45 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 1: is the changes that would come from not reading as much, UM, 46 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:02,799 Speaker 1: or if the brain structure there's is actually dyslexia. Right, 47 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: So they're having trouble with it. I'll explain it better later. No, 48 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: but I know what you mean. Well, good as long 49 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: as you do. But it also counts if like the 50 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: million or so people listening to this also do uh, hey, everybody, 51 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: dyslexia is very um studying it and understanding it and 52 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: UM learning how to teach children with dyslexia is very 53 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: important because up until semi recently, I'm just gonna go 54 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:32,360 Speaker 1: say recently, if you were had dyslexia and you are 55 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: a student, UM, you might have been called stupid or 56 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: dumb and you might have been Yeah, you might have 57 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: been put at a separate table and said, well you 58 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: go here because we you can't keep up. UM this 59 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: one guy, man, this one really hit home or not 60 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: hit home, but UM hit you in the bread basket 61 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 1: in the bread basket, which is like home um pull it. 62 00:03:56,400 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: Pulletzer Prize winner Philip Schultz was diagnosed later in life, 63 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: and he said, growing up in the nineteen fifties, he 64 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: he said, basically he was placed in what he called 65 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: the dummy class. Three children in his class were separated, 66 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: put at a table in the corner. The teacher didn't 67 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 1: talk to them much. And essentially one day, like the 68 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:18,280 Speaker 1: principle was coming around and she said, here these books, 69 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:22,479 Speaker 1: pretend to read them, right, the principles coming Yeah. Man, 70 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 1: that is just tough. But there's something really significant about 71 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:29,599 Speaker 1: that that that was a column written by a guy 72 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 1: named Philip Schultz who was a Pulitz Surprise winner. So 73 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: that really kind of reveals the fact that what they 74 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 1: figured out through decades and decades of research is that 75 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:45,159 Speaker 1: people with dyslexia aren't stupid. They specifically have trouble learning 76 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:49,480 Speaker 1: to read and spell and write, and more and more 77 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: research has kind of gotten to the root of their 78 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: the problems with dyslexia. But we have found that with 79 00:04:56,480 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: patients and practice, people with dyslexia can learn to read. 80 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:05,040 Speaker 1: You have dyslexia your entire life, there's no cure for it, 81 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 1: but you can learn to read, and you can learn 82 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: to navigate and cope with dyslexia as a child and 83 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:15,280 Speaker 1: into adulthood. Yeah, And I don't want to certainly don't 84 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:17,359 Speaker 1: want to sound like I'm bagging on teachers, because you know, 85 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: both of my parents were teachers, and uh, even back 86 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:24,799 Speaker 1: in the day when you know, let me just say this, Uh, 87 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: teachers back then didn't have the same tools that they 88 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 1: have today, and they didn't have an understanding of dyslexia. 89 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 1: So if they had students that weren't keeping up and 90 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: uh would force the class to maybe lag behind. They 91 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 1: may not have made the best decisions, but they didn't 92 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 1: have all the tools at their disposal to make better decisions. Right. 93 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: The presence of a kid with dyslexia in a class 94 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 1: creates a conundrum. Do you slow the class down to 95 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: that kid's speed and um as far as like reading 96 00:05:55,680 --> 00:06:01,280 Speaker 1: and spelling and writing lessons go um uh, potentially risking 97 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 1: like slowing down the rest of the class who are 98 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: learning at a normal clip. Or do you take this 99 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 1: guy with dyslexia, this girl with dyslexia and put them 100 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 1: in a special needs class that may address their reading 101 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 1: and writing, but they're going to get so far behind 102 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 1: their classmates and every other subject that they're normally proficient at. 103 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: It's a problem, and they had no idea how to 104 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,359 Speaker 1: how to grapple with it for almost all of the 105 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: twentieth century and multiple generations of kids with dyslexia suffered 106 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: as a result. Yeah, it's really sad. Um. There are 107 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 1: a lot of symptoms for dyslexia, key symptoms, uh, and 108 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,840 Speaker 1: these are very important because there is no blood tests, 109 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:44,919 Speaker 1: there is no there's no even I mean, there are 110 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 1: a lot of testing they can do, but that there's 111 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 1: no standardized, specific tests that will really nail it down, right, 112 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 1: So so keep that in mind. There's no there's no 113 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 1: official definition of dyslexia, and there's no specific tests to 114 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 1: suss out dysleke, right, two big problems. Yeah, so you 115 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: gotta look at this collection of symptoms. Um. The first 116 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 1: obvious one is slow reading and accurate reading. Difficulty sounding 117 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 1: out words, UM, difficulty pronouncing longer words with multiple syllables, 118 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: which we'll get to that in a bit. UM. Inability 119 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 1: to read or speak made up nonsense words, which I 120 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: thought was interesting, poor short term memory, for verbal information, 121 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 1: whether it's written or spoken spoken. Uh, poor spelling, like 122 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: really poor spelling, to where you sometimes can't even tell 123 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: what the words they're trying to spell are, right, not 124 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: not just like you know, like using an F instead 125 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: of a pH or something like that. Yeah, And we 126 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: should also point out too, that is it's very much 127 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: an incorrect notion that if you have dyslexi you just 128 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 1: transpose letters or spell things backwards. That's what I thought 129 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 1: for most of my life dyslexia was people they spelled 130 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: things backwards and that was that, and that they also 131 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: read backwards, and that they could train themselves to read 132 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: things backwards. Totally made up. It's not totally made up, 133 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 1: but it's so such a such a just a one 134 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: component of dyslexia that it might as well just be 135 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: an urban legend. Yeah, totally um. And then what this 136 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: can lead to it's not just like, oh I have 137 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 1: trouble reading like that. That spills out into all aspects 138 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 1: of life, whether it's your self esteem, or you might 139 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 1: have problem with with directions directionally, you might have issue 140 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 1: with your budgets or money items, or you might not 141 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:37,839 Speaker 1: can tell time, very well, frustrated, anger, difficulty planning things. 142 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,679 Speaker 1: It's not just limited to reading issues. And then in 143 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 1: real life you, um, you might read something and have 144 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: very little recollection of what you just read. Um, you 145 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 1: you will probably have problems giving presentations, finding the right word, 146 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 1: recalling words, that kind of thing. Um. When you do read, 147 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 1: and when you learn to read, you will be reading 148 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 1: slower than anybody else, even reading at your reading level. Um, 149 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 1: you just do it more slowly. And then as an adult, 150 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 1: a lot of people are like, oh, good god, I'm 151 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 1: done with school. Let me just go off and find 152 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 1: a job that doesn't require any reading or any writing, 153 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 1: and I will be fine. I will go to restaurants 154 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 1: in order the same thing at every restaurant, and um, 155 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:27,559 Speaker 1: if this routine that I've developed to mask my dyslexia 156 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:30,079 Speaker 1: is ever interrupted, I will flip out and try to 157 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:32,680 Speaker 1: keep it under control, but I will seem a little 158 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 1: awkward socially during instances like this. There's ways you can 159 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: carve out a life for yourself. But you don't have to, 160 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 1: because now we understand dyslexia way more than we did before, 161 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 1: and we understand the treatment of it too. Yeah, and 162 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 1: as far as how many people have it it's it's 163 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: tough to get UM because of all these reasons we're 164 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 1: talking about to have to get a good number that's reliable. 165 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: But anywhere between five and fifteen to seventeen percent, it 166 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: looks like UM would is sort of it's not the 167 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 1: biggest range in the world. But they don't really know, no, 168 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: they have they have no idea because there's a couple 169 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 1: of problems. One, there's a lot of people out there 170 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: who don't realize they have dyslexia UM. And then there's 171 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 1: a lot of people who do know they have dyslexia 172 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 1: in are either ashamed of it or have just set 173 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 1: up their life to where they don't have time or 174 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 1: room to go be diagnosed and then go learn to 175 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 1: overcome it. There's just like, whatever, I have this thing, 176 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 1: this issue where I'm slower at reading than other people. UM. So, yeah, 177 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:35,079 Speaker 1: it's probably very much underreported and underestimated how many people 178 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 1: in the population have at Yeah, and we're talking mainly about, 179 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:44,319 Speaker 1: almost exclusively about developmental dyslexia, which is, you know, the 180 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:47,439 Speaker 1: kind we mostly think about. We're not talking about acquired dyslexia, 181 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 1: which is can happen as a result of an injury um, 182 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:53,679 Speaker 1: so just want to point that out. Well, let's take 183 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: a break and then we'll come back and talk about 184 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 1: the history that actually features both of those. Okay, yes, sir, 185 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:30,319 Speaker 1: so Chuck. The first time the word dyslexia was used 186 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 1: was in eight two by an ophthalmologist named Rudolph Berlin, 187 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: who coined the term dyslexia. But the case that he 188 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: was describing was a case of acquired dyslexia, where you 189 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 1: can you can develop the symptoms of dyslexia, trouble reading, 190 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:51,440 Speaker 1: trouble writing, trouble um sounding out words from a head 191 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: injury or say a lesion on your brain, something like that. 192 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 1: And that told them a lot, right it really. Initially 193 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:02,559 Speaker 1: they thought maybe it was just a sign of low intelligence, 194 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 1: maybe it was a problem with vision or something like that. 195 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 1: But the fact that you could acquire dyslexia told um 196 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: neurologists and optimologists working in the nineteenth century, No, this 197 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: is a this is a there's a neurobiological basis to this. Yeah. 198 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: And they called it early on um in the nineteenth century, 199 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 1: and I guess even in the early twentieth century. Well, 200 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 1: actually they called it that up until the sixties. Yeah. 201 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: The sixties, um word blindness, and they it was a 202 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 1: German who who coined that term, and they called it 203 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 1: vart blind height. Can you say that that's good? Okay, 204 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:40,080 Speaker 1: you would do it only better than well, I would 205 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 1: put on some dumb voice. But that's perfect pronunciation. You 206 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: said that it's a w right, Yeah, and you said 207 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: it as a va perfect Okay, click my heels together 208 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 1: and said it checks out, Dorothy. Um. So they called it, 209 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 1: like you said, up into the sixties, congenital word blindness. Uh, 210 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 1: there a lot of people in the late eight d 211 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: or not a lot, but a handful of people studying 212 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 1: the stuff. Henschelwood and were the two big ones. Yeah, 213 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 1: and they were optimologists and a doctor um Henschelwood was 214 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: the optimologist and they and then there were also neurologist, 215 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:20,320 Speaker 1: a man named Samuel Orton and uh they they it's 216 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:23,839 Speaker 1: interesting to look back because they were sort of on 217 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 1: the right track with how they what they thought was wrong. Yeah. 218 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:30,200 Speaker 1: Word blindness also as a term, is not that not 219 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: that far off? Yeah? I mean it really does a 220 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:35,440 Speaker 1: good job describinting the thing because they're saying, like there's 221 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 1: some condition that these people have specifically because there are 222 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: otherwise totally intelligent. They're just they have a problem with words, 223 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 1: with seeing words and recognizing them like everybody else can. Yeah, 224 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 1: And it was obviously since the dawn of time people 225 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 1: have had this condition, but it didn't obviously if you 226 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: think about it, there are a lot of things that 227 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 1: came along that really brought it into the forefront, like printing, 228 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: widespread literacy. Yeah, newspapers and books and street signs exactly, 229 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: menus like you're saying in a restaurant. Yeah, Like like 230 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:12,679 Speaker 1: everywhere there's the printed word and all of this. As 231 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:15,079 Speaker 1: all of this started to emerge in like the second 232 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:17,679 Speaker 1: half of the nineteenth century, at least in the United 233 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 1: States and in the Western europe um, all of a sudden, 234 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: people who had dyslexia suddenly became apparent. Whereas before this 235 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 1: it wouldn't have been a parent because there was no 236 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 1: way for dyslexia to manifest itself. People didn't walk around reading. 237 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 1: You weren't expected to learn to read and write as 238 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: a kid. You had to be like basically a monk 239 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: to to learn to read and write or part of 240 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 1: like the aristocracy. Now it became democratized in public schooling 241 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: became widespread, and so as a result, dyslexia became a 242 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: thing for the very first time. It's actually a relatively 243 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: new condition that was born out of the modern era. Yeah, 244 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: or if you were a kid back then then you uh, 245 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:00,080 Speaker 1: they were trying to teach your reading. You could and 246 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 1: you were you were just they were like, all right, well, 247 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: I guess he's not a reader, so get out to 248 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 1: the factory of the field and don't worry about it. 249 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 1: But the that was what Morgan, like w Pringle Morrigan 250 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: and James Henchelwood were doing was they were the first 251 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 1: ones to say, wait, wait, wait, get that kid out 252 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: of the field, because he seems otherwise bright to me. 253 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 1: He just is having trouble reading. This might just be 254 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 1: a thing. So they were the first ones to say, no, 255 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: this is its own thing. This isn't just being being 256 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 1: generally slow. This is a specific learning disability, right. Uh. 257 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 1: Samuel Orton, the neurologists I mentioned, he created the Orton 258 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: Society in nineteen forty nine. Um, they were researchers and teachers, uh, 259 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 1: trying to figure out like, all right, we know this 260 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: is a problem. Now how do we go about teaching 261 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 1: kids like this and that eventually led to the International 262 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 1: Dyslexia Association. Um, but it really took until the like 263 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies. That was a book written by McDonald 264 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: Critchley called The Ayslexic Child, And that's when things really 265 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: started to come to the forefront more. Yeah, they started 266 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 1: to realize, oh wait, you can teach kids with dyslexia 267 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 1: how to read, so maybe we should start doing that, 268 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 1: right And here are here are the symptoms and the 269 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 1: signs of dyslexia, and let's let's take it seriously in 270 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 1: the general education system. Yeah. And one of the interesting 271 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 1: things that they learned, uh, they have learned over the 272 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 1: years is part of the problem, at least in the 273 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: case of English, is that it's a really tough language 274 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 1: to learn, extraordinarily tough, and it matters if you have dyslexia. 275 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 1: When compared to Italian, it says English has over a 276 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 1: thousand ways to spell it's basic set of forty uh 277 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 1: phonological sounds. Italian has twenty five speech sounds speech sounds 278 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: and only thirty three ways to spell them. So incidences 279 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 1: of dyslexia, while they may be the same technically in Italy, 280 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 1: kids don't have as much of a problem in Italy. Yeah, 281 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 1: like thinking about this, so that short E sound you 282 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:07,120 Speaker 1: can spell it ai as in said EO is in leopard, 283 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 1: You is in Barry, I E is in friend. Okay, 284 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: it is tough. But what you're doing is when you're 285 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:20,359 Speaker 1: when you're spelling those things, you're you're encoding a sound. 286 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: A phoneeme is what it's called. And like you said, 287 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: in English, we have forty phonemes. And when you spell, 288 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:30,919 Speaker 1: when you read, your encoding and decoding a phoneme. And 289 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,359 Speaker 1: we have attached phone emes onto specific things out in 290 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:38,879 Speaker 1: real life. Leopard, right, if you can spell leopard, you 291 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 1: can write down that word, and you can create a 292 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 1: leopard in somebody else's mind's eye by reading it. Okay, 293 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: this is all spectacular that we can do this, but 294 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 1: it's a totally human construct. If you have dyslexia, you're 295 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: the ground problem that that is the basis of your 296 00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 1: condition is you have trouble sorting through phonemes. You have 297 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:04,880 Speaker 1: trouble um with what's called phonological awareness, where you hear 298 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 1: in part as two separate distinct sounds that you can 299 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 1: learn to spell and learn to write. You you can't 300 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 1: sort them sometimes they run together. It's a it's a 301 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: problem on the very basis of reading, writing, spelling, the phonology. 302 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,919 Speaker 1: You have trouble. Your brain has trouble processing it and 303 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:32,239 Speaker 1: sorting it. That's the basis of dyslexia. So if you 304 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:35,919 Speaker 1: are a kid with dyslexia in in learning English with 305 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: as difficult as it is, where there's all these different 306 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 1: rules for the same phoneme, it's gonna be way harder 307 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 1: than it isn't something like Italian, like you're saying, Yeah, 308 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:47,399 Speaker 1: And as a result, as you would imagine, learning a 309 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,679 Speaker 1: second language if you have dyslexia is really tough. But 310 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:55,159 Speaker 1: they have found that Italian is can almost be like 311 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 1: a therapy, a training like jam camp for learning really interesting, Yeah, 312 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 1: because you learn, Oh there's rules with certain things, but 313 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:05,640 Speaker 1: these are really basic rules and they make sense. So 314 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: maybe now I can learn English UM a little more 315 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:13,399 Speaker 1: easily with the expectation that the rules are structurally the same. 316 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:16,119 Speaker 1: But they're just different for English than they are for Italian. 317 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 1: In nuance, but ultimately they're getting across the same stuff. Yeah, 318 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:26,639 Speaker 1: the the whole concept of language and um and symbols, e, 319 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:32,160 Speaker 1: letters and words, it's just fascinating to me, endlessly fascinating. Yeah, 320 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 1: because again and the humans like creating this and saying 321 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,400 Speaker 1: that thing of it there. If you draw these symbols 322 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 1: in this order, that's what that is. So that leopard like, 323 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 1: that's and then the word leopard like. Yeah, it's just 324 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 1: all fascinating. It is because you're encapsulating knowledge that can 325 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:50,959 Speaker 1: be shared later on, can be unlocked later on by 326 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 1: anyone who understands how to decode it in the same way. Yeah, 327 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:58,639 Speaker 1: what's the science? Uh? What was it called? When you 328 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: study that linguists? Is it just linguistics? I'm pretty sure 329 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: I could have been a linguist if I had only 330 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 1: known what it was called. I just realized happy thing 331 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 1: that would have dumped them. What's that thing called? Yeah? 332 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:15,640 Speaker 1: I could have been good at that? Yeah, yeah I couldn't. 333 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:19,119 Speaker 1: It was on the tip of my tongue. So um, 334 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: I guess we can talk about the the fm R 335 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 1: I and the m R I. Obviously, the Wonder Machine 336 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 1: figures in pretty big when it comes to this kind 337 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 1: of thing, and in the mid nineties is about when 338 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 1: the fm R I came on the scene. With dyslexia 339 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 1: and studies with dyslexia once they one of the problems 340 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:39,879 Speaker 1: was little kids. They're like, oh, we can't throw them 341 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: in there, that they will explode their brain. And then 342 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: they're like, oh no, the fm r I machine is 343 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 1: fine for kids. We tested it out on some bad 344 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:50,359 Speaker 1: kids and they were fine, and so they started putting 345 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 1: children in there. Um, because you could obviously do this 346 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:57,199 Speaker 1: at any age, but it's important for school aged children, 347 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 1: um to like figure out what's going on in their brains. Well, 348 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:04,199 Speaker 1: that's one of the reasons why that's the sample population 349 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: is because it takes years for dyslexia to be prominent. 350 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 1: Every kid has problems learning, reading, and writing at first, 351 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: but then as other kids progress and this one kid doesn't, 352 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 1: but there are otherwise bright same socioeconomic opportunities and all 353 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 1: that stuff. Um, that's when it becomes possible that they 354 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 1: have dyslexia. But by that time a couple more years 355 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 1: have gone by, right, So you're not you're not testing 356 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,879 Speaker 1: for dyslexia on babies. You have to wait until it 357 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 1: basically manifests itself. Yeah, And of course with the f 358 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 1: m R I they I think there was some hope 359 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 1: that it could Like you mentioned earlier, just be like, well, 360 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 1: there it is, but you know it wasn't. It wasn't 361 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: as they you know, different regions of the brain would 362 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:54,439 Speaker 1: light up or not light up, but they didn't get 363 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: any hard like pinpointing conclusions. No, they have kind of 364 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: focused in on a few spots, like different studies have said, 365 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: this is what we found, and it actually correlates with 366 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 1: other studies too. There's um left hemisphere areas, the ventral 367 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 1: occipito temporal region, the temporal parietal reagion, and the inferior 368 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 1: frontal cortices which have to do with language processing, but 369 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:25,160 Speaker 1: also visual processing of language too. Yeah. So again they 370 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 1: think that the basis of all of this is that 371 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 1: when you're hearing sounds, when somebody's holding up a piece 372 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:35,880 Speaker 1: of bread that has been dried through heat and says toast, 373 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 1: you're hearing toast, and you can learn to write T 374 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 1: O A it's a little confounding, and then st over time, 375 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,200 Speaker 1: maybe the first few times you write t O E 376 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,119 Speaker 1: S T, it doesn't matter. You're going to learn to 377 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,880 Speaker 1: write T O A S T and you can write 378 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: it down and then someone else can read it. And 379 00:22:56,320 --> 00:23:00,119 Speaker 1: they think of toast with dyslexia you're not hearing to 380 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 1: your your you, and you certainly can't extrapolate something that 381 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:09,199 Speaker 1: you're not hearing correctly into words and letters. Yeah, yeah, Okay, 382 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 1: it's a good way to put it. The tost analogy there, 383 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: you got, Uh, there is a genetic component. Um, you 384 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,680 Speaker 1: are likely, if you have dyslexi to also have other 385 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 1: family members who have it. And they have isolated some 386 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 1: genes associated with it. But again they haven't been like 387 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:27,399 Speaker 1: here's the cause. Let's just figure out how to switch 388 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,440 Speaker 1: this gene off or on right, And it's I think 389 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: it's just correlated. It's not necessarily the cause. It's it's 390 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 1: like people who have who have been shown to have 391 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 1: dyslexia have these this set of genes that are doing this. Yeah, 392 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:42,880 Speaker 1: but what, like I said earlier, what's interesting is those 393 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 1: early doctors weren't super far off. It does have to 394 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: do with visual processing of this linguistic information, and they 395 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,160 Speaker 1: were on the right track even way back then, so 396 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 1: not bad. And then even still though with this new 397 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,960 Speaker 1: understanding of like, ok, this brain region looks like this, 398 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,919 Speaker 1: this brain region looks like that, this is the sign 399 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 1: of a dyslexic brain, there's still the question is this 400 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 1: the result of going years and years without reading um? 401 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 1: Or is that the structure of a brain with dyslexia, 402 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,120 Speaker 1: because we know that your brain changes when you read, 403 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 1: when you learn to read. They they've done studies in 404 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 1: the mri I with um illiterate adults who have learned 405 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 1: to read. So they do a scan of them while 406 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 1: while they cannot read, and then they scan them again 407 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:36,639 Speaker 1: while they can read, and then look for differences in 408 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,439 Speaker 1: the brain. And there are structural differences that take place 409 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,640 Speaker 1: in the brain, which makes sense because it makes you think. 410 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 1: So in alliterate adult, is that the normal structure of 411 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,399 Speaker 1: the brain, and an adult that can read, is that 412 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,399 Speaker 1: an abnormal structure? Because think about it, we've only been 413 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,360 Speaker 1: doing that for a hundred hundred and fifty years. That's 414 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 1: a new constructure. So it makes sense that the brain 415 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 1: would be neuroplastic like that in that respect, because that's 416 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,119 Speaker 1: a new thing we've all started to try to do 417 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 1: to alter our brains. Yeah, and that's where the practice 418 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 1: part comes in, which we'll get too more. But it's 419 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:13,919 Speaker 1: interesting that and it sounds simple, But the better if 420 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 1: you have dyslexia, the better you get at reading and writing. 421 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,400 Speaker 1: The better you will get at reading and writing exactly. 422 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,879 Speaker 1: You're you're just um, you're strengthening, you're creating new neural 423 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,639 Speaker 1: connections and the strengthening those pathways. And the fact that 424 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 1: it all comes down to apparently patients and practice and 425 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,639 Speaker 1: that like it's saying, like these kids with dyslexia are 426 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:38,920 Speaker 1: going through the same thing that every kid does with 427 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 1: with learning to read and write and spell, it just 428 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:47,160 Speaker 1: takes them way longer. The fact that generations of kids 429 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 1: with dyslexia were just abandoned by the school system because 430 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,080 Speaker 1: of a lack of patients is really what it comes 431 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:56,680 Speaker 1: down to. Is beyond sad patients and resources, I think, 432 00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: and that's part of it. Sure, Yeah, I just don't 433 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 1: want to sound like we're saying and like teachers just 434 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,159 Speaker 1: were impatient about it, all right, It's like, uh, it 435 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 1: was complex and still very sad. Yes, that teachers have 436 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:12,439 Speaker 1: to buy their own school supplies still gets to me 437 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,119 Speaker 1: every year. The fact that we're like living with this 438 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,919 Speaker 1: as a country, like that's just become normal to us, 439 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:23,439 Speaker 1: is it's embarrassing. It's just a mark of shame on 440 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 1: our country. If you ask me, all right, let's take 441 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: a break. No I'm gonna go, I'm gonna give you 442 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 1: your cat of nine tails so we couldn't flog each other. 443 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 1: I realized, I'm I sound really forceful in this episode. 444 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 1: Do I feel like I'm sounding forceful? Do I sound forceful? 445 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 1: Do I? Well? That did? All right, We'll be right 446 00:26:41,400 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 1: back everyone. Al Right. So, like you said earlier, there 447 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: is no cure for dyslexia. There is treatment and they 448 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:22,639 Speaker 1: even put that in quotes. Um, but you shouldn't think 449 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:26,159 Speaker 1: of it as a disease cure type of thing. It's 450 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 1: practice and patients. Yeah, and those are the two strategies 451 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: that we will say it one more time for the 452 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:40,199 Speaker 1: tenth time. Patients and practice. Uh, it's you have to 453 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,479 Speaker 1: have that patience there as a parent, as a teacher, 454 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:48,120 Speaker 1: as someone with dyslexia. UM, I know it's frustrating, but 455 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: the more patient you are give yourself time, teachers can. 456 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 1: And then there are programs now where students can get 457 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 1: extra time to take tests and things like that. And 458 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 1: I think even officially like with the S A T 459 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 1: and stuff like that. Yeah, UM, there are programs where 460 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 1: you are not to put it a disadvantage. There's um, 461 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 1: the individuals with disabilities Education Improvement Act of two thousand four, 462 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: the Idea Acts or idea um IT. It specifies UH 463 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,919 Speaker 1: dyslexia as a specific learning disorder. And when you have 464 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 1: a diagnosis of dyslexia, the whole world opens up to you. 465 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,400 Speaker 1: You all of a sudden have your own personal teachers 466 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 1: assistant working with you. Um. You have all sorts of 467 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 1: resources that just weren't available to you before that are 468 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 1: being funneled directly toward helping you learn to read faster. Yeah. 469 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 1: I wonder if that's across the board. UM. Yeah, I 470 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 1: think that schools probably have specific funding for IDEA stuff. 471 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 1: I mean, like when when Congress comes up with an 472 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 1: act like that, they fund it and then they fund 473 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 1: it out of it, like those huge omnibus budgets have 474 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 1: funding for that, and that goes to the school and 475 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 1: schools supposedly not allowed to spend it on anything but 476 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 1: that stuff. So yeah, probably if you get a diagnosis 477 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: of dyslexia, it's pretty sweet um and a huge relief 478 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,240 Speaker 1: because all of a sudden, it's just like a brand 479 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: new world. You're taken away from the dumb kids table, 480 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: like Howard Schultz was, UM, and all of a sudden, 481 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: you have your own your own one on one UM 482 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: reading and spelling lessons that you just didn't have before. Yeah. 483 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: The other, like we said, is practice. Uh, and over time, 484 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 1: you know, you can learn to read UM and you 485 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 1: make those new neural pathways and and it's just it's 486 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 1: it's hardening to know that if you have this patience 487 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 1: and you put in the time, it is something that 488 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 1: can be overcome if everyone like works together, right, and 489 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 1: if you can learn to read even as an adult, 490 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,080 Speaker 1: You're you're not going to learn to read necessarily proficiently. 491 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 1: I think you can if you really really practice, if 492 00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 1: you put your mind to it's going to be very slow. 493 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 1: But it's not like you'll know ever read a book 494 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 1: or something like that. But I saw one woman describing 495 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 1: her condition as an adult, and she said she was 496 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 1: very proud to be at like a seventh grade reading 497 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 1: level now as as an adult, which is like you 498 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 1: can navigate through life as with a seventh grade at 499 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 1: a seventh grade reading level pretty easy. Um. The problem 500 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 1: comes when you don't ever you've never gotten any help 501 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: and you were basically in a literate adult because of dyslexia. Yeah, 502 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,479 Speaker 1: they have technology now can help out there what they 503 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: call assist of listening devices because sometimes if you have 504 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 1: someone to ear reading something out loud while you're reading along, UM, 505 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 1: sort of like a teacher and an app UM like 506 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: that one on one experience that can really really help. 507 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 1: UM seeing a transcription sometimes of what someone's saying, a 508 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 1: real time transcription. Yeah, so all these apps and devices 509 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,040 Speaker 1: are really helping things along. So it's it's like a 510 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 1: brand new world for kids with dyslexia compared to like 511 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 1: last century or even a few decades ago. You know. Yeah, 512 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 1: the one thing I didn't quite get, what's this thing 513 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 1: that you said from Sir Jim Rose. I didn't fully 514 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 1: get what this guy was saying. He was part of it. 515 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 1: So he's not saying this, he's he's uh, he's definitely 516 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 1: all into dyslexia. UM. But there is a a thread 517 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:26,360 Speaker 1: um that of of experts in childhood education, psychology, UM, 518 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 1: childhood cognition who who suspect that there's no such thing 519 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 1: as dyslexia, that those earliest neurologists and ophthalmologists and doctors 520 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 1: who who named it and made it a thing, we're wrong, 521 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 1: And that really an inability to read transcends any level 522 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 1: of intelligence. It's disconnected from intelligence. That no matter whether 523 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 1: you are of high intelligence or low intelligence, you can 524 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 1: suffer from an inability to learn to read. And so 525 00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 1: if you have dyslexia and you are of high intelligence, 526 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,760 Speaker 1: the kid next to you who has low intelligence and 527 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 1: can't read also has dyslexia, or there's or else. No 528 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 1: one has dyslexia, and it's just an inability to learn 529 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:15,640 Speaker 1: to read. Most experts say dyslexia is a thing, which 530 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,960 Speaker 1: means then the debate is, okay, doesn't have anything to 531 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 1: do with intelligence. And if it doesn't have anything to 532 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 1: do with intelligence, then all of these resources that are 533 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 1: being diverted to these kids who are of high intelligence 534 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 1: but are having trouble learning to read is really doing 535 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,560 Speaker 1: a disservice to the kids of low intelligence. And I'm 536 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:38,480 Speaker 1: making air quotes here. Everybody UM who are having trouble 537 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 1: learning to read? Why differentiate they're both having trouble learning 538 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:45,920 Speaker 1: to read. Start attacking the problem with both of them. 539 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 1: And there was this one Australian UM expert who basically said, like, yes, 540 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 1: dyslexia is a thing. It is his own thing, has 541 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 1: a neurobiological basis. It's not made up. It's not a myth. 542 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 1: But let's treat first and then diagnose later. If you 543 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 1: see an um an inability to learn to read, go 544 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 1: after that. Don't say, well as a dyslexia. Let's test 545 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 1: the kids intelligence. It doesn't matter. Focus on learning. How 546 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:16,720 Speaker 1: I'm teaching them how to read and apparently interventions. There's 547 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 1: this guy named, uh Julian professor Julian Um. What's his name, 548 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 1: Chuck Lennon Sands, Yes, Julian Sands in boxing Helena he 549 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 1: makes He has a big soliloquy about whether or not 550 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 1: dyslexi is a myth. I can't remember the guy's last name, 551 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 1: but um. I get the impression that parents of children 552 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 1: with dyslexia or not a big fan of this guy, 553 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:45,000 Speaker 1: but he's He's basically said, um, we're diverting a lot 554 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,040 Speaker 1: of funding away from kids who know how to who 555 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:49,320 Speaker 1: don't know how to read, just because they don't they 556 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 1: supposedly don't have a high I Q UM, Let's treat 557 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 1: all the kids. So that's the idea of whether it's 558 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,960 Speaker 1: a myth, not that dyslexia doesn't exist, although I think 559 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 1: some people suspected it didn't for a while it now 560 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 1: people believe it does, but not necessarily that it's just 561 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:08,880 Speaker 1: intelligent upper middle class kids who have dyslexia. It's just 562 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 1: an inability to read for the same reason. Interesting, that's 563 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,319 Speaker 1: the basis of it. It's still up in the air, 564 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 1: and it's a really touchy subject, very touchy subject, um 565 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 1: and rightfully so. I mean, like, I can imagine you 566 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 1: feel lost in the woods if there's no official diagnosis, 567 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 1: there's no official test of it, there's no official definition 568 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 1: of it. But your kid has it, and you know 569 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 1: your kid has it. I can't imagine why it must 570 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 1: feel like to have some expert going like there's no 571 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:40,759 Speaker 1: such thing as dyslexia. You know. It is very touchy 572 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:45,760 Speaker 1: and rightfully so. Uh Well, Finally, there's this whole notion that, um, 573 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:50,399 Speaker 1: if you have dyslexia, then you may excel in other areas. Um, 574 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,239 Speaker 1: you may be more creative, or you may be more 575 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:57,920 Speaker 1: prone to be, like um, an entrepreneur, perhaps because you 576 00:34:57,960 --> 00:34:59,880 Speaker 1: think outside of the box. Yeah, I mean there's a 577 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,880 Speaker 1: long list of people, like, you know, famous creative types 578 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 1: that have dyslexia, get the Christie. Did you know that one? 579 00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 1: I didn't, but I didn't either that. You know, I 580 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:12,680 Speaker 1: didn't just make it up. I learned there's a long list. 581 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 1: But just recently part of this bugs me though, I 582 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:17,239 Speaker 1: don't know. I just hate it when they're like, well, 583 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,200 Speaker 1: look what celebrities have this thing? I mean, I get it. 584 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 1: Maybe that it might, I don't know. I just don't 585 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,440 Speaker 1: see the value in that. Well it's saying like, look 586 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 1: at this guy, this guy, this lady. Maybe I guess 587 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,279 Speaker 1: so she's not a street sweeper. You don't have to spend, 588 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 1: you don't have to look forward to a life of 589 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,760 Speaker 1: shoveling horse maneuver because you have dyslexia. You can't achieve. 590 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:39,040 Speaker 1: Just stick to a kid. Now. I get all that, 591 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,279 Speaker 1: and that's valid. You're questioning the cult of celebrity. Yeah, 592 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:44,160 Speaker 1: that's what it was. That just sort of bugs me. 593 00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:46,440 Speaker 1: But no, there is benefits. I'm sure if some kids 594 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:50,359 Speaker 1: like Tom Cruiz has dyslexia and look at him, may 595 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 1: may I have had some questions about Zanix and its 596 00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:59,080 Speaker 1: value myself. Oh goodness. Uh. There have been some studies 597 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,759 Speaker 1: though over the year. It may or may not support this. 598 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,759 Speaker 1: Like um supposedly, if you have dyslexia, you may be 599 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:09,320 Speaker 1: UM quicker to find Um, something in your peripheral vision. 600 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:13,520 Speaker 1: Maybe you can like mc escher style drawings or the 601 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:18,160 Speaker 1: impossible images hidden images, you might see those quicker or 602 00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:23,000 Speaker 1: more easily find patterns in in noise, like you could 603 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 1: be a great data analysts perhaps, And they think like 604 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,640 Speaker 1: and this makes total sense, But the problem is as 605 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,800 Speaker 1: its anecdotal at this point, but it makes total sense 606 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:36,600 Speaker 1: that yes, you're you're the same senses that you were 607 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:39,319 Speaker 1: using to read and write. If you don't know how 608 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 1: to read and write, your brain is going to compensate 609 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,360 Speaker 1: with other things, is going to possibly excel at other stuff, 610 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 1: just because it's structure different If your brain is structured differently, 611 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,040 Speaker 1: which we know that's the case, if you do not 612 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:56,000 Speaker 1: read or write, Uh, you would expect that it would 613 00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,920 Speaker 1: manifest itself in real world behaviors and traits. Well. Yeah, 614 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:01,800 Speaker 1: and the first thing I thought was like, yeah, totally, 615 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,120 Speaker 1: Like if your vision impaired, you you hear things better. 616 00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:06,920 Speaker 1: Well supposedly that's a myth. Well I looked it up. Um, 617 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:09,960 Speaker 1: there are studies where if you were vision impaired, you 618 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:14,880 Speaker 1: are better at pinpointing like location of sound and certain sounds. 619 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,600 Speaker 1: But it's not you can't hear something two miles away. Yeah, 620 00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 1: it's not as cut and dry. It's just can't hear 621 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,840 Speaker 1: there better because like your ears developed better. You know, 622 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:26,239 Speaker 1: you remember that guy who can echo locate. He's visually impaired, 623 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 1: and he's like he uses clicks or something like that 624 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,879 Speaker 1: like a bat. He basically taught himself to echolocate. Really amazing. 625 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:35,120 Speaker 1: The first thing I thought about was the guy with 626 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:37,680 Speaker 1: the ear in his arm? What was his name? Stell Arct? 627 00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:42,080 Speaker 1: What's great, oh man, that you and I like go 628 00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 1: back and forth. I'm remembering the guy's name. Last time 629 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:46,319 Speaker 1: we brought him most and I didn't remember his name, 630 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,080 Speaker 1: and you rattled it right at stell Arc between us, 631 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:51,480 Speaker 1: stell arc is going to live forever, like the trans 632 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,480 Speaker 1: human is to you. But then that last thing about 633 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:59,919 Speaker 1: being entrepreneurial or um maybe a corporate executive. They did 634 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:01,839 Speaker 1: do a study in two thousand nine that found there 635 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:06,280 Speaker 1: was a anecdotal evidence of over a representation in those fields. 636 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:08,920 Speaker 1: But then that's the thing too, where they're like, maybe 637 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 1: they were just better at overcoming adversity and that stayed 638 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,359 Speaker 1: on through their whole life to where it wasn't just dyslexia, 639 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:19,920 Speaker 1: but like and nothing would keep them down. So they excelled, right, 640 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:23,000 Speaker 1: they learned how to how to try harder than their peers. 641 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 1: So yeah, even if that is the case, great, sure, 642 00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,640 Speaker 1: But the point is it's still anecdotal, so you have 643 00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:31,759 Speaker 1: to be careful with saying like, oh, yeah, people with 644 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,560 Speaker 1: dyslexia are way better at this, or they're they're more 645 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:39,799 Speaker 1: likely to be entrepreneurs. Just hasn't been settled. Um, But 646 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:43,080 Speaker 1: I think the overall point of this episode is if 647 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,880 Speaker 1: you are if you do have dyslexia, Um, there is 648 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,600 Speaker 1: plenty of hope. Do you not give up hope? Whether 649 00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,640 Speaker 1: that your kid has dyslexia or you have dyslexia, you 650 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,480 Speaker 1: can learn to read and write and spell, and you 651 00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:59,600 Speaker 1: can become a Pulitzer Prize winning calumnist or Agatha Christie 652 00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:03,400 Speaker 1: Ye or John Irving. I saw his six alexia, John Oving. Yeah, 653 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:08,120 Speaker 1: Richard Branson, that was really good. Ozzy Osborne, For God's sake, 654 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:11,200 Speaker 1: look at that guy fumbling around the house. He's successful 655 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:16,120 Speaker 1: despite himself. Um. If you want to more about dyslexia, 656 00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:19,359 Speaker 1: you can learn all about it on the internet. And 657 00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:23,319 Speaker 1: since I said that it's time for listener mail, I'm 658 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,600 Speaker 1: gonna call this sid and Marty Croft email. This guy 659 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:28,840 Speaker 1: wrote in to email us about a personal connection he 660 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:32,239 Speaker 1: had to the Schoolhouse Rock episode. I'm not gonna read 661 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:33,640 Speaker 1: that half of the letter because I don't want to 662 00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:38,920 Speaker 1: further embarrass the family. But his he's his relation to 663 00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:40,800 Speaker 1: the person that we kind of called out as the 664 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:46,400 Speaker 1: guy who ruined Schoolhouse Rock. Okay, wasn't he an exact Yeah? Yeah, 665 00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:49,120 Speaker 1: But the second half of this is uh, speaking of 666 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:51,400 Speaker 1: unbelievable stories, guys, I thought it. You'd be jealous to 667 00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:53,720 Speaker 1: know that I grew up hanging out on the sets 668 00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,239 Speaker 1: of all the SidD and Marty Croft shows because my 669 00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:58,080 Speaker 1: mom was on a bunch of them. He used to 670 00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:01,400 Speaker 1: have lunch with the slee stacks and throw around big 671 00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:07,239 Speaker 1: foam boulders from Land to the Lost. She was Nashville 672 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,800 Speaker 1: on the Captain Cool and the Kong Show, which wrapped 673 00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:14,960 Speaker 1: around the Saturday Morning cartoons. I remember that they also 674 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:18,360 Speaker 1: That also led to the music group the Bay City 675 00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:21,440 Speaker 1: Rollers showing up to my birthday party when I was 676 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:24,120 Speaker 1: like five. It caused such a big mom scene the 677 00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:27,880 Speaker 1: police had to come. That's the s Yeah, you are dy. 678 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,000 Speaker 1: You know how they got their name? They threw a 679 00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:33,920 Speaker 1: dart at a map and it landed on Bay City, Michigan. 680 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:35,840 Speaker 1: Because they're like Scottish, aren't they? I think so? I 681 00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:39,680 Speaker 1: think they are. I remember my sister. Uh, we had 682 00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:43,279 Speaker 1: a babysitter and then my sister and the babysitter. I 683 00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:45,200 Speaker 1: don't know why my sister wasn't just my babysitter. She 684 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:47,880 Speaker 1: was six years older. There was another girl who babysat 685 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:52,120 Speaker 1: that was my sister's age, and they would sit around. 686 00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:54,440 Speaker 1: This is my big memory of the Bay City Rollers. 687 00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:56,200 Speaker 1: They would there was one of their albums that had 688 00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:59,080 Speaker 1: each of their pictures sort of in a dartboard like 689 00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:02,280 Speaker 1: fashion and kle and they would spend the record around 690 00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:05,359 Speaker 1: and close their eyes and stop it with their finger 691 00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:07,200 Speaker 1: and like they didn't make out with that picture. Yeah, 692 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:11,080 Speaker 1: they had to like kiss that picture or whatever. I 693 00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:13,600 Speaker 1: hope your sister doesn't listen to this. It's great. The 694 00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:18,480 Speaker 1: seventies man so innocent. I love the seventies. So Basicity 695 00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:21,440 Speaker 1: Rollers came to his birthday party. They called the cops. Uh. 696 00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:23,440 Speaker 1: She went on. My mom went on to do a 697 00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:25,319 Speaker 1: ton of cool stuff that I'm sure you guys would know, 698 00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:29,400 Speaker 1: a bunch of episodes of Plastic Man, all the women's 699 00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:33,560 Speaker 1: voices on Celebrity Deathmatch, hosting a game show called Rodeo Drive, 700 00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:37,200 Speaker 1: playing Joan Rivers on Family Guy, being in The Catskills 701 00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:40,640 Speaker 1: on Broadway for two years. Too much more to mention, guys, 702 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,080 Speaker 1: except also she went on the road with Tim Conway 703 00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:45,759 Speaker 1: and Harvey Corman for a number of years posing is 704 00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:49,200 Speaker 1: Carol Burnett, and my little brother ended up engaged to 705 00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:53,800 Speaker 1: Harvey Corman's daughter, but it didn't work out anyway. I 706 00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:55,520 Speaker 1: love the show, guys. If I can never be a resource, 707 00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,280 Speaker 1: let me know that is from Keith or l Keith. 708 00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:03,000 Speaker 1: That was amazing. You remember Celebrity Deathmatch? Yeah, big shout 709 00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:05,759 Speaker 1: out to your mom too. Yeah, and up to your 710 00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:09,480 Speaker 1: mom's Keith. Uh. Well, if you want to brag on 711 00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:11,879 Speaker 1: your mom because she's done some awesome stuff, we love 712 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,799 Speaker 1: hearing about that. Moms always have great um welcomeness here 713 00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,279 Speaker 1: at stuff you should know that that's gonna end up 714 00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:20,920 Speaker 1: being a crummy T shirt. Uh. If you want to 715 00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:22,319 Speaker 1: get in touch with this, you can hang out on 716 00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:24,160 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know dot com and check out our 717 00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:26,600 Speaker 1: social links there. I have a website called the Josh 718 00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:28,480 Speaker 1: Clark Way dot com. You can get in touch with 719 00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:30,200 Speaker 1: me there, and you can get in touch with me 720 00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:33,200 Speaker 1: Chuck and Jerry and everybody else here at Stuff. You 721 00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:36,520 Speaker 1: should know by sending an email to Stuff podcast how 722 00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:43,880 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com For more on this and thousands 723 00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:56,680 Speaker 1: of other topics. Is that how stuff Works dot com