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Speaker 1: Welcome to the MLK Tapes, a production of I Heart

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Speaker 1: Radio and Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in

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Speaker 1: this podcast are solely those of the podcast author or

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Speaker 1: individuals participating in the podcast, and do not represent those

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Speaker 1: of I Heart Media, Tenderfoot TV, or their employees. Listener

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Speaker 1: discretion is advised. I was sitting at Quince and Kirkbry

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Speaker 1: waiting on a call. I heard Paul come in on

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Speaker 1: the radio and well, I couldn't hear him, but he

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Speaker 1: talked to the dispatcher and the dispatcher started repeating with

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Speaker 1: Paul said. He said, you mean doctor Martin Luther King

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Speaker 1: has been shot, and he said yes, and then he said, well,

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Speaker 1: I'll send an ambulance. And he said I don't believe

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Speaker 1: an ambulance can help, because he would repeat it back,

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Speaker 1: so I knew what he was saying. And he said, well,

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Speaker 1: I'll send an ambulance anyhow, and send the police. These

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Speaker 1: are the words of cab driver Louis Ward, taken from

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Speaker 1: his testimony at the civil trial and de nine and

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Speaker 1: rent to us by a voice actor. Ward is repeating

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Speaker 1: the words of another taxi driver, no longer living, who

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Speaker 1: told him what he saw when Martin Luther King was killed.

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Speaker 1: Ward had been in another part of town when he

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Speaker 1: heard his dispatcher talking to Car fifty eighth at the

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Speaker 1: Lorraine Motel. King had just been shot. An ambulance was

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Speaker 1: being sent. Ward then heard the dispatcher tell the cabby

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Speaker 1: to take his fare to the airport and that he

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Speaker 1: would call the police and tell them what the driver

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Speaker 1: had seen, something about the man who shot King running

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Speaker 1: up the street. Ward wasn't sure that he had heard

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Speaker 1: it right. The man who shot King was running up

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Speaker 1: the street. On impulse, Ward drove to the airport, where

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Speaker 1: he found the driver of Car fifty eight, who told

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Speaker 1: Ward and two other cabbies what he had seen. Ward

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Speaker 1: would never see that driver again. And when he found

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Speaker 1: out what happened to him the very night the King

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Speaker 1: himself was killed, Louis Ward began to fear for himself

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Speaker 1: and his family. So for twenty five years he kept

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Speaker 1: what he knew to himself. Then, when the kids were grown,

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Speaker 1: he decided to come forward. I called the Union Hall.

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Speaker 1: I said, this a matter of life and death. I said,

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Speaker 1: I thank these people are planning to kill doctor King.

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Speaker 1: The authorities were parade. Oh, we found a gun the

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Speaker 1: James Old raybought in Birmingham that killed Dr King, except

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Speaker 1: it wasn't the gun that killed Dr King. James Lvey

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Speaker 1: was upon for the official story from My Heart radio

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Speaker 1: intender for TV. The plan was to get King to

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Speaker 1: the city because they wanted it handled in Memphis. Were

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Speaker 1: dead and in cold handle it and I've lived with

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Speaker 1: us along my Siri, and they scared for me. The

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Speaker 1: Lord told me to not the word. I've been wanting

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Speaker 1: to tell it all my life. I'm Bill Claiburg and

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Speaker 1: this is the MLK tapes. When Martin Luther King was killed.

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Speaker 1: Louis ward was forty one, married with three children. He

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Speaker 1: had been a federal security guard at a local army

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Speaker 1: depot for twenty years. He drove a cab part time

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Speaker 1: and was driving the ninth King was shot when he

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Speaker 1: decided to come forward some twenty five years later. Ward

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Speaker 1: first went to the police, then to the Attorney General,

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Speaker 1: but they were not interested in what he had to say.

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Speaker 1: Then he found Bill Pepper, who sat him down and

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Speaker 1: turned on the tape recorder the home of Mr Lewis

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Speaker 1: ward Cardigan Drive. Mr Warden was a taxi driver for

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Speaker 1: a Yellow can back in and on the evening of

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Speaker 1: the killing, he was driving and he was parked. Then

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Speaker 1: he heard a report come over the radio to the dispatcher.

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Speaker 1: Report was from a driver of cab number fifty, whose

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Speaker 1: name he does not recall. At this time, Ward would

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Speaker 1: tell Pepper how it was that he heard about the

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Speaker 1: killing over the radio, and how we went to the

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Speaker 1: airport to meet with the driver of cart eight. He said,

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Speaker 1: the man told him and the other Caveys that he

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Speaker 1: had been at the rain picking up a fair a

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Speaker 1: black man with a lot of luggage. Then he said

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Speaker 1: something that's stuck in Ward's mind. He laved the past

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Speaker 1: and he picked up He knew what was going on.

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Speaker 1: The passenger knew what was going on. What made him

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Speaker 1: think that? It went like this? As the driver was

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Speaker 1: putting the last bag in the cab, he was looking

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Speaker 1: in the direction of the brush covered yard facing the motel,

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Speaker 1: But the passenger seemed to want to divert his attention

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Speaker 1: that was looking at direct out Momolity. His upervisor at

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Speaker 1: so and he said, when you don't hear to see

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Speaker 1: so the passenger told the cabby to look the other way,

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Speaker 1: just in time to see the bullet explode. On Dr

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Speaker 1: King's face. The driver said he immediately turned back and

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Speaker 1: saw a puff of smoke rising from the yard. Then

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Speaker 1: a man appeared out of the bushes, and though we

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Speaker 1: had no rifle, the way he was moving made the

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Speaker 1: driver feel that he was the one who had fired

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Speaker 1: the shot. Is how he lived as a clerks, and

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Speaker 1: he didn't have a rappers here. According to the driver,

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Speaker 1: As related by Louis Ward, the man who came out

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Speaker 1: of the bushes jumped down off the wall not far

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Speaker 1: from where the cab was, and ran up the street

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Speaker 1: toward a police car a block or so away. The

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Speaker 1: driver said he immediately reported what he had seen to

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Speaker 1: his dispatcher. He first said to tell the police the

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Speaker 1: man was running north, but then the man seemed to

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Speaker 1: disappear into the police car, which then burned rubber as

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Speaker 1: it sped away, making so much noise that the dispatcher

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Speaker 1: said he could hear it over the rate EO. So

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Speaker 1: Ward went to the airport and heard the driver of

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Speaker 1: Car fifty eight tell him and a couple of other

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Speaker 1: cabbies what he had seen when King was shot. But

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Speaker 1: Ward wasn't the only one who came to the airport

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Speaker 1: for that story. I'm sart harder with the living. They

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Speaker 1: won't drive them out Californation litter. Hey Ward and the

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Speaker 1: others stepped away, but they were close enough to hear

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Speaker 1: what was being said, and the driver told the police

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Speaker 1: the same story that he had told them a few

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Speaker 1: minutes before. The Sards serves ca right lietenant hope to

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Speaker 1: report down and they got start repower. After the police left,

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Speaker 1: the dispatcher called the driver of car fifty eight and

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Speaker 1: said that he was wanted down at the cab garage.

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Speaker 1: So the driver went back a little later, Louis Ward

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Speaker 1: took a fair to town and drove by the garage.

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Speaker 1: They were sea clay covers, damn and I they were

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Speaker 1: you know, paying similarly Poward. Because of the unrest now

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Speaker 1: in Memphis, Ward's security work increased and it was days

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Speaker 1: before he returned to drive a cab. Well, I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: all my first amc workfar standing the rail and this

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Speaker 1: head when they help would mean I don what we

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Speaker 1: just want to call it said that that would have

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Speaker 1: a high speed in art because the list well you

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Speaker 1: know I read about it. Yeah, I would page space

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Speaker 1: and you ever done a play in the paper? Mm

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Speaker 1: the fact that the driver of Car fifty eight was

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Speaker 1: said to have been murdered and that nothing had been

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Speaker 1: said about it in the newspapers put fear into Louis Ward.

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Speaker 1: With a family to protect, Ward felt the best thing

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Speaker 1: would be the up and keep quiet, and that's what

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Speaker 1: he did for twenty five years. But when he did

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Speaker 1: come forward and finally found someone who would listen to him,

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Speaker 1: in the person of Bill Pepper, he could no longer

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Speaker 1: remember the name of the murdered cab driver, and Pepper

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Speaker 1: knew this detail was important. Mr Ward, Can you describe

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Speaker 1: this man? How old was he? And you don't recall

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Speaker 1: his name? Do you? I was about forty one forty two,

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Speaker 1: let's say, but he was probably about six. I knew

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Speaker 1: his name with that tim but I had my best

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Speaker 1: today and I cannot get that name to say. You

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Speaker 1: might laugh, but the identity of the driver is key.

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Speaker 1: So towards the end of the interview, Bill Pepper comes

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Speaker 1: forward with an interesting idea hypnosis. The ability to bring

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Speaker 1: back the name of the of the driver would be

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Speaker 1: very helpful if I could be done. How would you

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Speaker 1: feel about undergoing hypnosis for the purpose of taking you back?

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Speaker 1: I'm putting you face to face with this man to

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Speaker 1: see if you could remember his name. Ward wasn't exactly eager,

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Speaker 1: but he did agree to the hypnosis, and that session

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Speaker 1: took place a few weeks later. The audio quality of

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Speaker 1: that tape is awful, so I'll do my best to

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Speaker 1: tell you about it. Will see it and see yourself

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Speaker 1: highly will of the cat hips yourself. The hypnotist Dr

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Speaker 1: Joseph Cassius begins a session in a way we've all

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Speaker 1: seen in the movies. I'm going to take you back

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Speaker 1: in time, Louis in an imaginary taxi. I'm going to

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Speaker 1: take you through a tunnel of time. The more relaxed

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Speaker 1: you are, the more it will come to you, bit

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Speaker 1: by bit, piece by piece, more and more and more.

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Speaker 1: Ward apparently goes into a light trance, but little in

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Speaker 1: the way of new memories appear. The obvious problem is

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Speaker 1: that War didn't witness the shooting. He was only told

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Speaker 1: about it, so it's not as though hypnosis could help

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Speaker 1: him remember something he had forgotten. Even so, success was

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Speaker 1: still in reach if Ward could remember the name of

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Speaker 1: the driver, who Ward now thought may have been called Paul.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Cassius does his best. More and more will come

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Speaker 1: to you better and better. Each time, the last name

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Speaker 1: will come to you. Paul's last name will come to you. Now,

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Speaker 1: as Paul's last name comes to you, a name finally

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Speaker 1: comes to Louis Ward, a last name to go with Paul.

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Speaker 1: It was Harvey. Dr Cassius decides to try it out.

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Speaker 1: Harvey Harvey, Paul Harvey, Yes, Paul Harvey. Neither man made

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Speaker 1: the connection at that moment. But in the nineteen sixties,

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Speaker 1: Paul Harvey was a ubiquitous ABC radio journalist with his

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Speaker 1: own self and manner of speaking. People loved him. If

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Speaker 1: you drove your car anywhere, you'd hear him on the radio,

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Speaker 1: and he would end each broadcast in his own stylized way.

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Speaker 1: You know, just a little fitty crack and Mrs Backerman's

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Speaker 1: driveway in Kennis On, Nebraska, I mean a teensy crack.

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Speaker 1: You couldn't push your pencil through it. And yet out

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Speaker 1: of that crack two watermelon vines are growing, and they

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Speaker 1: produced seven big watermelons. She still can drive around them,

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Speaker 1: but she'd no longer get in the garage door. One

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Speaker 1: thing more, today's bumper sneaker. This was seen by Marshall

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Speaker 1: Miller in Stone Mountain, Georgia. It says vote yes on

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Speaker 1: preparation H Paul Harvey good Day. So Hypnosis offered up

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Speaker 1: a former well known radio personality as the possible driver

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Speaker 1: of car fifty eight, not the result they were hoping for.

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Speaker 1: Pepper then tried to find people who were drivers at

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Speaker 1: Yellow Cab when King was killed to see if they

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Speaker 1: would know, But no one he found wanted to talk

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Speaker 1: about it, and more strange, no one could remember who

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Speaker 1: the dispatcher was that night. But Ward clearly remembered the

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Speaker 1: police taking a statement at the airport, so Pepper went

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Speaker 1: looking for it. We couldn't find them, as I recall, Oh,

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Speaker 1: we didn't find any record of any police interrogation or

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Speaker 1: any police interview. And that's where things stood for a

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Speaker 1: few years. It was like Louis Ward had dreamed the

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Speaker 1: whole thing. But then in Bill Pepper got some information

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Speaker 1: that the man they were looking for might be a

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Speaker 1: fellow named Paul Butler. The name rang a bell in

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Speaker 1: Ward's head, and he felt that this was probably the

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Speaker 1: guy's name, and the pieces seemed to fit. Butler did

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Speaker 1: drive for Yellow Cab. He was in his sixties back then,

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Speaker 1: and he seemed to have disappeared around nineteen sixty eight.

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Speaker 1: So when Ward took the witness stand in late nine nine,

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Speaker 1: at age seventy one, he told his story publicly for

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Speaker 1: the first time and gave the name of the driver

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Speaker 1: of Car fifty eight as Paul Butler. Within a matter

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Speaker 1: of months, there was an official response to Louis Ward's

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Speaker 1: shocking story. It came in the Department of Justice Report

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Speaker 1: of the year two thousand, sometimes known as the Renal Report,

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Speaker 1: which said that Paul Butler died in August of nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixty seven, a full eight months before Martin Luther King

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Speaker 1: was murdered. That would seem to be conclusive. Butler couldn't

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Speaker 1: possibly tell Ward about the murder of King if he

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Speaker 1: was already dead. So what happened here was the Paul

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Speaker 1: Butler name a simple mistake or disinformation? Has someone monkeyed

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Speaker 1: around with the death records? I had seen such things

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Speaker 1: and worse in the L A. P d S totally

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Speaker 1: corrupt RFK murder investigation, so I don't rule it out.

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Speaker 1: But false death records in this instance seem unlikely to me.

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Speaker 1: So let's accept that Paul Butler died in nineteen sixty seven.

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Speaker 1: Does that solve the puzzle. I don't think it does,

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Speaker 1: because in order for that fact to make keV fifty

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Speaker 1: eight dissolve into the mist, Louis Ward's account would have

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Speaker 1: to be a fabrication, a lie, and a very big one.

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Speaker 1: And I don't think it is a lie because everything

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Speaker 1: about Ward and his story rings true. And Ward first

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Speaker 1: approached the police and then the a G before he

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Speaker 1: ever went to Bill Pepper. And there is no conceivable

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Speaker 1: reason for him to come forward at this point in

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Speaker 1: his life and invent a detailed, an elaborate lie about

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Speaker 1: the murder of Dr. King. And if Ward's story is true,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't matter what the driver's name was. Another put

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Speaker 1: down of Ward was that he really isn't a witness,

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Speaker 1: just someone passing along some unsubstantiated hearsay. And that might

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Speaker 1: be partly true. But within an hour of King being shot,

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Speaker 1: Louis Ward became an eye witness because he was out

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Speaker 1: at the airport when the police showed up. The lieutenant

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Speaker 1: wrote the report down, says Ward. Yet there is no

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Speaker 1: such report in the police files. Of course, if such

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Speaker 1: a report were preserved, the police would have some explaining

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Speaker 1: to do. Who was the running man, who was driving

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Speaker 1: the police car that took him away, and why were

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Speaker 1: they so desperate to leave the scene of a crime.

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Speaker 1: As far as Ward's story being unsubstantiated, that would cease

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Speaker 1: to be the case fifteen years later, when another person

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Speaker 1: would come forward, now forty years after King's death, with

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Speaker 1: a very detailed eyewitness account of the murder of Dr King,

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Speaker 1: an account that supports the things reported by Louis Ward,

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Speaker 1: including a positive idea of the man who jumped the

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Speaker 1: wall and ran up the street cranks back up my

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Speaker 1: old ass up somewhere Avenue, hit Parkway, come all the

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Speaker 1: way up, turn, come down, cooled in between the damn

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Speaker 1: boards up there, the billboards and the mill boards. I said,

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Speaker 1: I sold it. I turned well, all right. One side

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Speaker 1: is a parking well, all parks something there anywhere, I guess. So,

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Speaker 1: So where did you meet Junior? He was standing in

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Speaker 1: buying a poster board. Okay, so was Jars. Showers was

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Speaker 1: out there at that point as well. In two thousand

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Speaker 1: and nine, some forty years after the fact, Ronnie Lee Atkins,

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Speaker 1: who we've already met in episode seven, came up from

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Speaker 1: Texas with his lawyer, Stephen Tolin, and gave a seven

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Speaker 1: hour deposition regarding his family's involvement in the murder of

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Speaker 1: Martin Luther King. At the time King was shot, Atkins

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Speaker 1: was sixteen and on a motorcycle out on Mulberry Street

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Speaker 1: near the Lorraine. In his deposition, Atkins often refers to Junior,

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Speaker 1: who was his half brother and twenty years his senior,

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Speaker 1: and who, according to Ronnie Lee, replaced his father upon

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Speaker 1: his dead in a leadership role in the plot to

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Speaker 1: kill King. The person asking the questions here is Bill Pepper.

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Speaker 1: Then what did you do? I did what he told

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Speaker 1: me to do, which was right around. You told me

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Speaker 1: to ride around down there. If I saw anything that

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Speaker 1: was out of order that I knew it was crooked,

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Speaker 1: get up there and let him know. I told him why. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So you went down to Mulbury Man. I was all

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Speaker 1: over the place down there. I went to Union Station. Uh,

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Speaker 1: I've seen Holly. Holly was going up on the station. Uh.

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Speaker 1: I went around and checked and was checking on Chess.

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Speaker 1: Chess wasn't in his spot. According to Atkins, the plot

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Speaker 1: to kill King had several alternate scenarios. If the attempt

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Speaker 1: to shoot him on the balcony did not come off,

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Speaker 1: his planned if Solomon was driving like he was supposed to,

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Speaker 1: he was gonna put King up front on the passenger side.

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Speaker 1: That would give Holly a straight shot all the way

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Speaker 1: down that street. And there was no way for him

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Speaker 1: to turn and come up name because the police blocked

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Speaker 1: that all where the fire station was just passed there

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Speaker 1: before you got to that corner. You're saying the police

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Speaker 1: would have been there to any of They was already there.

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Speaker 1: And if King was only wounded by the shot, there

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Speaker 1: was something else in the works. There was a man

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Speaker 1: that was a sign to get the King before anybody

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Speaker 1: could run up from anywhere to get the King and

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Speaker 1: make sure he was dead. It was already arranged that

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Speaker 1: he was to go to Saint Joseph's Hospital down the street.

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Speaker 1: He never was gonna make it out of that emergency

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Speaker 1: room alive. Bill Pepper then asked Atkins to describe the

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Speaker 1: things he saw when King was shot. I was leaning

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Speaker 1: back against the body when I heard the shot, when

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Speaker 1: I saw him get hit, and when I saw him

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Speaker 1: go down. Now, I'm no doctor, but there was no

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Speaker 1: question to me that the man was hit hard. I

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Speaker 1: mean he was hit hard. So I see the man

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Speaker 1: jump over the edge of where the trees met the

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Speaker 1: rim and start side of ways across of those immediately

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Speaker 1: turned around and go that direction. So I didn't have

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Speaker 1: to worry about. What I'm trying to tell you is

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Speaker 1: I didn't have to worry about anybody coming out through here,

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Speaker 1: and I didn't have to worry about Holly's job. It

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Speaker 1: was like once the shot went off, it was every

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Speaker 1: dog for his own. Did you know that a man

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Speaker 1: was going to come down over the wall. I didn't

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Speaker 1: know that he was going to run out there there,

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Speaker 1: like nos, I really didn't. Did you recognize him at

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Speaker 1: the time? Uh? Who was he? It was Earl Clark?

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Speaker 1: So you recognize Earl Clark getting down and running north

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Speaker 1: on Mulberry. Yes, he ran the way, he ran Ketty Corner.

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Speaker 1: He was running northeast. Yeah, he was running across. Cab

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Speaker 1: driver was there, had the doors open, had to back up.

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Speaker 1: There was a black guy there with a ship, little

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Speaker 1: bags trying to get in there. Everybody's running and come

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Speaker 1: and screaming and ship and guy's going up the stairs.

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Speaker 1: And uh noticed the guy that Junior and Holloman was

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Speaker 1: talking to the day before, the black guy that ended

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Speaker 1: up checking to make sure that King was dey at

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Speaker 1: doc anythinking what that guy's lame was around McCullough. Yeah, McCullough,

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Speaker 1: I guess that's him. But he was a fad anyway,

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Speaker 1: so they was. He was one of Holloman's guys. When

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Speaker 1: King went down, Merrill McCullough was in the parking lot below,

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Speaker 1: but in a flash, he ran up the stairs and

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Speaker 1: was the first to reach Dr. King. He is the

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Speaker 1: man leaning over King in the iconic photo of people

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Speaker 1: pointing on the balcony. There is no dispute that McCullough

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Speaker 1: was a federal agent on loan to the Memphis Police

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Speaker 1: who had successfully infiltrated the invaders, the Memphis Black Radical Group.

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Speaker 1: As we heard from Ronnie Leatkins. There are some who

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Speaker 1: believe that it was McCullough's job to ascertain if King

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Speaker 1: had been fatally wounded, but McCullough, while acknowledging his undercover role,

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Speaker 1: has always denied that he had anything to do with

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Speaker 1: the assassination. But leaving McCullough aside, what Ronnie Lee Atkins

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Speaker 1: saw on the other side of mole Bray Street may

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00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:04,000
Speaker 1: had more bearing on the case, because he saw a

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Speaker 1: man jump off the wall run up the road and

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Speaker 1: hop into a car that sped away, just like what

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Speaker 1: the cab driver had reported to Louis Ward. The only

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Speaker 1: important difference between the two accounts is that Atkins not

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Speaker 1: only saw the man come over the wall, he knew

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Speaker 1: who he was. It was Captain or Clark, and Atkins

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Speaker 1: got a good look at him because he almost caught

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Speaker 1: up with Clark on his motorbike. When I got behind

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Speaker 1: him and got to the corner, he had done gotten

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Speaker 1: that Chevrolet and he was there was a cop car

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Speaker 1: in front of him, and pulled off and went to

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Speaker 1: the corner internal leup. They pulled off, went to the

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Speaker 1: corner internal leup. I will pull in behind them and

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00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,960
Speaker 1: went to this building right here. Pepper had suspected that

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Speaker 1: Captain Clark was one of the people in the brush

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Speaker 1: covered yard facing the Lorraine, so he was not surprised

363
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Speaker 1: by this report, But he also felt strongly that there

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Speaker 1: was a third person there. In fact, he had someone

365
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Speaker 1: in mind. But now there was a person who could

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Speaker 1: solve this mystery once and for all. So Pepper asked

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Speaker 1: the question, all right, and and who was the guy

368
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Speaker 1: in the pushes? So who was the third shooter? My

369
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 1: brother Russell m He he took it on himself. I

370
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Speaker 1: believe so. He tells you that he was the one

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Speaker 1: who did the shooting straight up. Yeah, he told me

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Speaker 1: popped you know, I mean if he popped me, popped him.

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Speaker 1: It was three guys out there were Lauel Clark, my brother,

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Speaker 1: and and no old man. And no man didn't have

375
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Speaker 1: guts to do it, and I don't think they trusted

376
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Speaker 1: him to do it. He is to shake in ship.

377
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:33,760
Speaker 1: According to Apkins, the three men out in the yard

378
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Speaker 1: behind the grille where the old man who was Lloyd Owers,

379
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Speaker 1: Captain Earl Clark, who ours had already placed there, and

380
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:45,600
Speaker 1: Atkins brother Russell Jr. Which is new and surprising information

381
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Speaker 1: to Bill Pepper, who keeps asking questions What did he

382
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 1: do with the gun? Where did he go? He handed

383
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:54,399
Speaker 1: the gun to Earle and he went and got in

384
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Speaker 1: the car and he left through the where the two

385
00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,199
Speaker 1: billboards at turn Ryant got a must I took uh.

386
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,440
Speaker 1: Earl handed the gun the old man, old man, and

387
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 1: carried it inside. Earl jumped the wall and took out.

388
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Speaker 1: I took out behind Earl. We all went under the quanta.

389
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,360
Speaker 1: Earl gave the gun to Chowers, Yes he did. Jowers

390
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:17,200
Speaker 1: took it inside apparently, So what happened to that taxi driver?

391
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 1: The taxi driver I was told was killed on either

392
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Speaker 1: how one or how Away fifty five by Chess Butler.

393
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Speaker 1: How do you know Chess Butler did that? Well, I

394
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,320
Speaker 1: heard Chess how you killed him? But that was in

395
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:31,640
Speaker 1: Chest's house when he was telling the Mildred, my mother

396
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Speaker 1: that he took care of you in the house at

397
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Speaker 1: the time he was I was in the bedroom, was

398
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Speaker 1: sitting on the end of the bed. Linda Butler was

399
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 1: sitting on the left side of the bed. I was

400
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:41,440
Speaker 1: sitting in the middle of Danny Butler sitting on the

401
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 1: right side of the bed. The door opened out that

402
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:47,639
Speaker 1: a way, and obviouldly Mildred the back of Mildred Mama

403
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:49,879
Speaker 1: was sitting right there, and Chess was standing up at

404
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:51,680
Speaker 1: the end of the table taking a drink whiskey. What

405
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 1: did you actually hear him saying? Powered him to say

406
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Speaker 1: that he took care of the cab driver who told

407
00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,239
Speaker 1: him to do that? You know, I'm gonna say it's

408
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 1: for eight he's gon be Hallman or or Russell Jr.

409
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 1: Or Clark, one of the other I'm gonna say it

410
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 1: originated with Earl, because apparently there was a lot of

411
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,879
Speaker 1: conversation down there at Earle about who saw him and

412
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 1: who could identify him, and who knew him that was there.

413
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 1: So apparently the cab driver got a head on look

414
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,399
Speaker 1: at him after he had come down the wall and

415
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,119
Speaker 1: when he turned, so apparently that was a problem. So

416
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 1: they sent Chess on him. So what did Chess, they say,

417
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 1: How did he say he actually killed him? I didn't

418
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 1: hear that. I mean, you know, uh no, I mean

419
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 1: you know, I wasn't looking for blood and gut shit.

420
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 1: I just said a man. Was his head blowed up

421
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 1: or his cham blowed up? Was the driver shot? Was

422
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,879
Speaker 1: he thrown off a bridge? How did he? How did he?

423
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 1: He just said he dumped him up on the side

424
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 1: of the road. I think he just took care of

425
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 1: before he dropped. This is what I do know. He

426
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 1: was good with a knife. He loved the ice pick.

427
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 1: He would shoot the ship out of somebody. So, according

428
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,239
Speaker 1: to Ronnie Lee Atkins, the driver of CAD fifty eight

429
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 1: was murdered by Chess Butler, a friend of the family

430
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 1: and someone who Atkins knew intimately he had been in

431
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,440
Speaker 1: Butler's house when he heard him say that he killed

432
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,719
Speaker 1: the Cabby. But the most puzzling thing for Bill Pepper

433
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,320
Speaker 1: was that Atkins had said his brother Russell had fired

434
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 1: the shot that killed Kim. Because Pepper already had strong

435
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:23,440
Speaker 1: evidence that it was somebody else, so Pepper asked Atkins

436
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:27,440
Speaker 1: again if he was sure it was Junior. Yeah, I

437
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,679
Speaker 1: think Junior popped. What chance could there be that there

438
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 1: was somebody else there that he would never have been

439
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:38,399
Speaker 1: told about? Kundog's chance and the hill, Kundo's chance and

440
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 1: Hill not not know who was there? Not much chance?

441
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 1: You think what had I from where I was that,

442
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 1: not from what I was seen, and not from what

443
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 1: I know, and not from what we've discussed. And and

444
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 1: it wasn't a whole lot of discussing about that after that,

445
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,440
Speaker 1: you know. Now there was some discussion about it, but

446
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: it was between Junior and May and between Mama and

447
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 1: Junior and between Mama Junior a mate, and that was

448
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 1: where it stopped. Today is the first day I put

449
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,159
Speaker 1: that out, Steve about it. So you just might be

450
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 1: letting my family's asked out there on the highway, But

451
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 1: that's all right. It needs to come out so in

452
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 1: graphic fashion. In his own words in a legal deposition,

453
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 1: Ronnie Lee Atkins incriminated his father, mother, brother, and himself,

454
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 1: along with the chief of police and many other people

455
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,880
Speaker 1: Ronnie knew as he was growing up. But why would

456
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 1: Russell Jr. Tell his little brother that he killed King

457
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 1: if it were not true? I put this question to

458
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:39,159
Speaker 1: Bill Pepper to protect him. If if it was the

459
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 1: brother that did it, and brother convinced the younger brother

460
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 1: that he's the one who did it, it would give

461
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 1: him that type of insulation, that type of protection. But

462
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:54,200
Speaker 1: I think that that's why it's about. Pepper's explanation makes sense.

463
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 1: If the killer who shot King is still alive, anyone

464
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 1: who knows his identity is at some k So Ron's

465
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,159
Speaker 1: brother may have just been protecting him, or he might

466
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 1: have been bragging to his little brother, letting him think

467
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 1: that he was the big man. In any case, Bill

468
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 1: Pepper was in possession of strong evidence that pointed to

469
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,199
Speaker 1: another man as the actual shooter that day, but at

470
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 1: the time of the Atkins deposition, he couldn't say anything

471
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 1: about it even if he had wanted to. He was

472
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 1: sworn to secrecy. The evidence Pepper had had been presented

473
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 1: to him in the year two thousand and three and

474
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: recorded under oath in the presence of King's eldest son,

475
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 1: Martin Third. But the fear that came with this testimony

476
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 1: was such that Pepper had to promise not to reveal

477
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: the evidence until the witness himself had died. Not your

478
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 1: everyday kind of deal. So who was this man? He

479
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 1: was a custodian at a rifle range. Next time on

480
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 1: the MLK tapes he laid it on the counter, said, Lenny,

481
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,160
Speaker 1: how you like that scound book? That baby as it's

482
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,399
Speaker 1: a rifle act resta right, It's not easy, just a

483
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 1: special one, that baby special. The deal was that I

484
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 1: would not reveal what he said while she was alive.

485
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 1: I had only a two phone called fair. I called

486
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: the Union Hall, talked to the later. It was a

487
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: reception there. The young lady I spoke to I told us,

488
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 1: said this is something very important, and she said what

489
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 1: is it to I says a matter of life and death.

490
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 1: I said, I think these people are planning to kill

491
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 1: Dr King. I'll just say this much, and I have

492
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: a profound belief in this. I don't think James L.

493
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 1: Ray could have put all this together. You're right about that.

494
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: Earl Clark was a good friend of mine. He had

495
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 1: strong feelings about certain things. Was he a good shot?

496
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and you are a hell of a shooter

497
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: from what I understand, I'm a dead shot. I was then, Well,

498
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 1: I don't have any idea would do that. Thanks for

499
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 1: listening to The m l K Tapes, a production of

500
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio and Tenderfoot TV. This podcast is not

501
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 1: specifically endorsed by the King Family or the King of State.

502
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 1: The email K Tapes is written and hosted by Bill Claiper.

503
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 1: Matt Frederick and Alex Williams are executive producers on behalf

504
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio with producers Trevor Young and ben Keebrick.

505
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 1: Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay are executive producers on behalf

506
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: of Tenderfoot TV with producers Jamie Albright and Meredith Stepman.

507
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 1: Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Cover art by

508
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: Mr Soul two six with photography by Artemis Jenkins. Special

509
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 1: thanks to Owen Rosenbaum and Grace Royer at u t A,

510
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 1: The Nord Group, back Median Marketing, Envisioned Business Management, and

511
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 1: Station sixteen. If you have questions, you can visit our website,

512
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 1: the email k tapes dot com. We posted photos and

513
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 1: videos related to the podcast on our social media accounts.

514
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 1: You can check them out at the email k Tapes.

515
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from I Heart Radio and Tenderfoot TV,

516
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 1: please visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or

517
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows,