Speaker 1: Hike and everybody. I'm Dan Horde and thanks for downloading
Speaker 1: the Bengals Booth Podcast. The Come On, Come On, lesten
Speaker 1: to the Money Talk edition as my broadcast partner Dave
Speaker 1: Lapham and Bengals dot Com editor Jeff Butch Hopson joined
Speaker 1: me to discuss the Bengals latest free agent acquisitions, the
Speaker 1: current state of the offensive line, the brutal treatment that
Speaker 1: Andy Dalton is getting from Chicago Bears fans, and answer
Speaker 1: some of your ask Lap questions. The Bengals Booth Podcast
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Speaker 1: or pod Bean. It's the greatest thing since ted Lasso.
Speaker 1: My wife and I started to watch the comedy series
Speaker 1: ted Lasso on Apple TV about a week ago, and
Speaker 1: it quickly became an all out binge. We breeze through
Speaker 1: all ten episodes in record time and can't wait for
Speaker 1: the next season whenever that arrives. If you're not familiar
Speaker 1: with the character or the show, ted Lasso is an
Speaker 1: American football coach who becomes the head coach or manager
Speaker 1: of a Premier league soccer team. It's obviously a fish
Speaker 1: out of water comedy, but ted Lasso is one of
Speaker 1: the most endearing, cheerful characters on TV. He knows nothing
Speaker 1: about soccer but plenty about coaching, and the result is
Speaker 1: a show that's both funny and uplifting. If you don't
Speaker 1: have Apple TV, I think it's about five bucks a month,
Speaker 1: so you can always cancel after watching Ted Lasso if
Speaker 1: you want to. Plus, you can decide who has the
Speaker 1: better mustache, ted Lasso or Giovanni Bernard. Now let's get
Speaker 1: to football. Before getting to this week's conversation with lap
Speaker 1: Ann Butch, there was huge news in the NFL on
Speaker 1: Friday that has a direct impact on the Bengals, as
Speaker 1: the San Francisco forty nine ers made a trade with
Speaker 1: Miami to acquire the number three pick in the NFL Draft.
Speaker 1: In addition to giving Miami the twelfth pick in this
Speaker 1: year's draft, San Francisco coughed up two future first round
Speaker 1: selections and a third rounder. Let's face it, you only
Speaker 1: give up that kind of draft capital if you're going
Speaker 1: to move up to select a quarterback. So what does
Speaker 1: that mean for Cincinnati. Jacksonville is going to take quarterback
Speaker 1: Trevor Lawrence number one overall. The Jets appear likely to
Speaker 1: take quarterback Zach Wilson number two overall, meaning the forty
Speaker 1: Niners would take Justin Fields, Trey Lance, or Mac Jones
Speaker 1: to make it three quarterbacks in a row. Atlanta currently
Speaker 1: has the fourth pick. No matter what the Falcons do,
Speaker 1: Oregon offensive lineman a Sewel or LSU wide receiver Jamar
Speaker 1: Chase would still be on the board at number five.
Speaker 1: Maybe both of them. Then again, perhaps a team needing
Speaker 1: a quarterback would offer the Bengals a king's ransom for
Speaker 1: the fifth pick. In any case, knowing that at least
Speaker 1: three of the four teams picking ahead of them in
Speaker 1: this year's draft are expected to take quarterbacks is a
Speaker 1: great development for Cincinnati. We'll get to the draft in
Speaker 1: my chat with Lappin Butch, but we start with free
Speaker 1: agency Keillan. Since last week's podcast, the Bengals have added
Speaker 1: two more free agents. They have signed cornerback Eli Apple
Speaker 1: to a one year deal, the tenth pickback in the
Speaker 1: two sixteen draft out of Ohio State. He hasn't lived
Speaker 1: up to that draft status yet, but he doesn't turn
Speaker 1: twenty six until August. They have reportedly signed safety Ricardo Allen,
Speaker 1: who is twenty nine. He's spent all six of his
Speaker 1: NFL seasons in Atlanta. A four time captain, he started
Speaker 1: on a Super Bowl team. Let's get your reactions to
Speaker 1: those two editions, Eli Apple and Ricardo Allen. Lap. You're
Speaker 1: up first, Well, I think both of them are are
Speaker 1: good signings for depth. You know, you have to You
Speaker 1: obviously got your starters, but you have to have depth,
Speaker 1: particularly at the cornerback position. We saw that last year.
Speaker 1: There were some injuries. The Bengals dealt with that at
Speaker 1: that position as well. Trey Waynees never took a snap,
Speaker 1: and all I hope is that we never seen number
Speaker 1: thirty eight Lashawn Simon again. Man, every time that kid
Speaker 1: took the field, the ball was a magnet. It was
Speaker 1: going right there. I mean, every coach just zeroed in
Speaker 1: on him. So I hope the exit meeting with he
Speaker 1: and Zach Taylor was Hey, Lashawn, thanks for everything, but
Speaker 1: we're not bringing your back. You know. I mean I
Speaker 1: think that you know, Eli Apple would be a huge
Speaker 1: upgrade from what they had on the football field, you know,
Speaker 1: at the conclusion of the season for Sharre in terms
Speaker 1: of depth, So and Ricardo Allen, smallish type guy, you know,
Speaker 1: not a not a very big guy, but they say
Speaker 1: one of those kind of guys that absolutely loves football.
Speaker 1: Football is important to him. Football is the biggest thing
Speaker 1: in his in his life, you know. And I don't
Speaker 1: think you can have enough of those kind of guys.
Speaker 1: And you know the other free agents that they sign,
Speaker 1: like Hendrickson. When you hear that guy, football is super
Speaker 1: important to the guy. And so I think that Ricardo Allen,
Speaker 1: Eli Apple, they'll be on that text chain of the
Speaker 1: secondary with von Bell, Jesse Bates, all those guys that
Speaker 1: are going to be getting ahead of the game. You
Speaker 1: know in my mind that they possibly can because they're
Speaker 1: coming from different systems. So there's only so many coverages
Speaker 1: in so many ways you can play the coverage, but
Speaker 1: there's a lot of different nomenclature. So the thing that
Speaker 1: they have to get used to is the language. So
Speaker 1: if Jesse Bates and Von Bell can get them up
Speaker 1: to speed more quickly, the Killer Bees can get the
Speaker 1: language out to all those guys. Whatever you call this,
Speaker 1: it's now called that and they can you know, get
Speaker 1: get a jump starting those kind of things. I think
Speaker 1: I think that would help the back end to measurably.
Speaker 1: How about you. But you know, I mean I'm with
Speaker 1: lap I like him both. The you know, the Eli
Speaker 1: Apple signing kind of conjures up cornerbacks past uh pac Man, Jones,
Speaker 1: Terrence Newman, guys who had they were on stops before
Speaker 1: where things had soured on them and they revived their careers.
Speaker 1: You know, maybe and Apples a lot younger than that,
Speaker 1: but you know, he's had a you know, he's struggled.
Speaker 1: But I think, you know, great, great chance for him
Speaker 1: here to turn things around. I don't think Darius Phillips
Speaker 1: should get all uh should get too upset. I think
Speaker 1: he's a guy that you know, I think they're probably
Speaker 1: looking at him this before, you know, they aren't looking
Speaker 1: for Apple, I think, to come in and take over
Speaker 1: for Phillips. I think they you know, maybe see some
Speaker 1: competition there. I think Phillips is clearly the guy, in
Speaker 1: my mind, would be the first guy off the bench.
Speaker 1: You're playing behind the other three and Uh Alan I
Speaker 1: think is uh, you know there's a guy that's you
Speaker 1: can't you can't miss there, uh, six year veterans respected,
Speaker 1: you know, like Black said, small guy but feisty, you know,
Speaker 1: between him and Hilton, I guess they're they're not very tall,
Speaker 1: but they should bring a lot of fire, you know.
Speaker 1: And I guess the Alan signing it may preclude to
Speaker 1: bring it back Sean Williams. It lose a lot of
Speaker 1: experience with Sean, you know, on teams and everything, so
Speaker 1: you know, hopefully Alan Alan can help fill that too.
Speaker 1: You do get younger if it's Ricardo Allen in for
Speaker 1: Sean Williams, since Allen is still in his twenties. You know,
Speaker 1: my thought on these two signings is free agency is
Speaker 1: not just a matter of trying to add really good players.
Speaker 1: You know, that's clearly something you're trying to do, but
Speaker 1: it's also trying to replace bad players with competent players.
Speaker 1: And his lap mentioned Lashawn Sims really struggled last year.
Speaker 1: He started ten games, so he played a lot. His
Speaker 1: Pro Football focus numbers were in the forties. You can't
Speaker 1: have that. You've got to have your bottom line guys
Speaker 1: closer to the sixties. And that's what you know, an
Speaker 1: Eli Apple can give you as a depth piece or
Speaker 1: Ricardo Allen can give you as a depth piece. And
Speaker 1: I'm glad you mentioned Darius Phillips Butch because he has,
Speaker 1: you know, tweeted some cryptic things indicating he's not happy
Speaker 1: about all of these additions they've made to the secondary.
Speaker 1: And in a sense I get it. Is Pro Football
Speaker 1: Focus rating last year was actually better than Will Jackson's.
Speaker 1: He was twenty second of the guys that had enough snaps.
Speaker 1: Will Jackson was twenty sixth. But like you said, these
Speaker 1: guys are going to play. Darius Phillips, assuming he's healthy,
Speaker 1: is going to get a ton of snaps. Cornerbacks are
Speaker 1: little guys tackling big guys and guys that are sprinting
Speaker 1: up and down the field every play, so they always
Speaker 1: get hurt. It's impossible for a corner to be out
Speaker 1: there one hundred percent of the time. You need depth,
Speaker 1: and they have definitely upgraded their depth. Well, I think
Speaker 1: you mentioned, you know, Will Jackson and Darius Phillips in
Speaker 1: a comparison there, and I think the biggest thing with
Speaker 1: both of those guys is inconsistency. You know, they both
Speaker 1: they both will have lapses, you know, and Will's making
Speaker 1: a fortune now and Darius Phillips is a lot more manageable.
Speaker 1: And but you mentioned special teams, you know, and Darius
Speaker 1: Phillips obviously has a big role there. But that's where
Speaker 1: I think the Bengals got hit the most in this
Speaker 1: free agency period is special teams. You know, they're able
Speaker 1: to resign Clark, Harris, Kevin Huber, but glex Ericson goes
Speaker 1: to Houston, Sethan Carter goes to Miami. A couple of
Speaker 1: guys that big time for Darren Simmons. What's the common
Speaker 1: denominator there? The new England Patriot factor, head coach of
Speaker 1: the Dolphins, Patriot general manager of Houston, now Patriot organization.
Speaker 1: You know, the way they do their special teams under
Speaker 1: Bill Belichick, there's a lot of similarity. There's a common denominator.
Speaker 1: The special team's coach was the mentor at one time
Speaker 1: for Darren Simmons, or they run the same type of system,
Speaker 1: all that sort of thing. That's where I think they
Speaker 1: get hurt a little bit. You know, Randy Bullock moves on.
Speaker 1: Obviously he had his problems in the clutch, but you know,
Speaker 1: he wasn't he wasn't terrible, but but boy, the kicks
Speaker 1: that he missed were big. I mean, you just can't
Speaker 1: you can't have it. I thought he was a real
Speaker 1: pro the way he handled it after the fact that
Speaker 1: some of those kicks you just can't miss. But so
Speaker 1: I'm wondering, I'm wondering how many of these guys that
Speaker 1: they signed will be able to step up and take
Speaker 1: some of these roles and special teams or guys that
Speaker 1: they've got on the foot on the football team currently
Speaker 1: will fill some of these roles that you know, Sethan Carter,
Speaker 1: Alex Erickson, guys like that field. And again, there's still
Speaker 1: the draft, there's still free agency after June first and
Speaker 1: all that. But I thought that the team, the teams
Speaker 1: around the league, particularly with the new England Patriot connection,
Speaker 1: really really respect what Darren Simmons does and went and
Speaker 1: got some of his players because they're gonna fit be
Speaker 1: able to fit their scheme very usually. I think the draft,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, they got to be combing that
Speaker 1: for a returner because there's nobody behind Phillips apparently general
Speaker 1: we know Phillips's history is uh, he'll put the ball
Speaker 1: on the ground. And plus you know you mentioned a
Speaker 1: two horty if Phillips is healthy. That's a big thing.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think you know, these guys like Darius,
Speaker 1: but I mean it's you know, he's been, uh you
Speaker 1: gotta go ease you on him during the week. He's
Speaker 1: got the neat thing, and uh so you kind of
Speaker 1: got to manage him a little bit physically, you know,
Speaker 1: and that's why you had to go get like an
Speaker 1: apple or somebody. You know. Believe me, if they had
Speaker 1: thought Sean Sinons was going to start ten games when
Speaker 1: they signed him, they probably would have would have been
Speaker 1: guys leaping off the towers here at the stadium. But
Speaker 1: that's you know, that's how that's how low they got.
Speaker 1: Quickly after, after Wayne's got hurt, Phillips was whipping around.
Speaker 1: Will Jackson had had a concussion. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: you know some guys had COVID, so you know, suddenly
Speaker 1: Jalen Davis was playing his first snaps of his life.
Speaker 1: You know, so you know, they really had to go back.
Speaker 1: They had to, they had to beat that up. And
Speaker 1: so you know the apple the apple thing with Phillips
Speaker 1: is uh I think that and then he get Tony
Speaker 1: Brown is maybe the sixth guy, which is probably about
Speaker 1: you know, they probably feel pretty comfortable going in with that.
Speaker 1: I think that Brandon Wilson signing is huge for the
Speaker 1: reasons we're talking about too. You know, you can't afford
Speaker 1: to lose Brandon Wilson, you know, one of the great
Speaker 1: returners in the league. Uh, you know, and he was
Speaker 1: out there all of Darren Simmons's pieces, you know, his
Speaker 1: battery of Snapper Holder, you know Hunter, all those guys
Speaker 1: were out there as well as his return guys, and
Speaker 1: he lost some of them, He lost some of his
Speaker 1: key pieces. But keeping Brandon Wilson was a big deal.
Speaker 1: I think. Yeah, the thing with Darren, this is how
Speaker 1: good Darren is he. You know, they avoided him losing
Speaker 1: his second best player for the second year in a
Speaker 1: row because Spederal and went to Miami last year. They lose,
Speaker 1: They lose Spederal and he comes back and they finished
Speaker 1: ninth according to the Football Outsiders. They finished finished ninth
Speaker 1: in the special teams ranking. Atley lost his best player.
Speaker 1: And that's why Darren is so good. He can I
Speaker 1: had a feeling if we were the you know, if
Speaker 1: we were the Gunners, He's still he still finished the
Speaker 1: middle of the pack. Ain't much hit him. Pulling those
Speaker 1: guns if we're gunners, but you know, you look at it,
Speaker 1: Federalum and Stephen Carter back to back years, go to
Speaker 1: Miami Special team stall Wars. Go to the head coach
Speaker 1: who's new England background tells you all you need to
Speaker 1: know about what he thinks of Darren Simmons as a
Speaker 1: special team's coach. If we're the gunners, Huber better punted
Speaker 1: out of bounds every single time. All right, let's move
Speaker 1: on and look at this free agent group as a whole.
Speaker 1: Of the seven guys that they've signed so far, Trey Hendrickson,
Speaker 1: chit obey A Woge, Mike Hilton, Larry, Ogan, job Riley
Speaker 1: reef Eli Apple, Ricardo Allen. Which of those guys, as
Speaker 1: you're a favorite signing thus far, I go, it's a
Speaker 1: tight contest between Larry. Oh, I'm not going to take
Speaker 1: a shot of that name, Ogan, Joe not that tough
Speaker 1: Ojan Joby because he just because but I know how
Speaker 1: to spell it because I wrote it so many times
Speaker 1: when he played, because he gave so many plays. But
Speaker 1: and Hilton, I think Hilton is a really nice, uh
Speaker 1: really nice add to the to the mix, just as
Speaker 1: a just from his mentality. You know, I like Mike
Speaker 1: Tomlin players. I've kind of gone up and I've had
Speaker 1: a love hate relationship with Tomlin watching him coach. I
Speaker 1: really think the last couple of years he's really uh
Speaker 1: he's a help of coach, you know. So you're coming
Speaker 1: out of that program, I think I think that will
Speaker 1: help him putting a guy like Hilton in there. So
Speaker 1: I Clario with a slight edge over Hilton, you know.
Speaker 1: I like the combination. I think that they were able
Speaker 1: to handle. They're they're in the running for Galaday big time.
Speaker 1: You know, a lot of these free agents are signing
Speaker 1: one year deals and it has to be a good
Speaker 1: one year deal for both parties. So the only way
Speaker 1: it's a good one year deal for the team that's
Speaker 1: signing is they're gonna they can't do anything with a
Speaker 1: salary cap or you can't pro rate it or anything else,
Speaker 1: so you and try to incentivize it. And the Bengals
Speaker 1: are right and the run with the guy Gallady Galla,
Speaker 1: they wanted to sign with the Bengals my understanding, and
Speaker 1: the Giants made a longer term commitment to them, but
Speaker 1: with the money that they didn't give Galladay, they got
Speaker 1: Ogan Joe be In Reef. I'll take that. I'll take that.
Speaker 1: In my mind, the offensive defensive line needed to be addressed,
Speaker 1: and by not going giving that money to Galladay, they
Speaker 1: read big. Two words that the Bengals I think did
Speaker 1: so well in free agency two p words patience and pivot.
Speaker 1: They were like low post players. They were pivoting so much,
Speaker 1: and they showed tremendous amount of patients, you know, to
Speaker 1: boot and they didn't get, you know, all the smarts
Speaker 1: when oh man, this didn't work out, what are we
Speaker 1: gonna what are we gonna do? I mean here in
Speaker 1: the U in the timeframe of March madness, they were
Speaker 1: like a low post player. They were pivoting so much,
Speaker 1: you know, And so they moved and they and they
Speaker 1: signed Ogan Job and they signed Reef and you know,
Speaker 1: needed to have somebody at that tackle position. I would
Speaker 1: have loved to them have signed Zeidler. I know they
Speaker 1: were in the hunt, but Baltimore offered more than they
Speaker 1: were they were, you know, going to offer, and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I think I think Zieler probably would have
Speaker 1: been okay coming back here, but Baltimore is a great
Speaker 1: fifth for him. And that's the that's the signing. In
Speaker 1: my mind, that cut away. But you know, if you
Speaker 1: get Reef addressed the tackle position, he could always kick
Speaker 1: in the guard. Ziler ain't going to kick out the tackle.
Speaker 1: Zider is not going to give you the position versatility
Speaker 1: that Reef gives you. So you know the fact that uh,
Speaker 1: I like that, you know, addressing defensive lineman Ogan Joebian Reef,
Speaker 1: but you know Hendrickson as well, I mean edge rusher.
Speaker 1: My my thing was Paul Brown always built a team
Speaker 1: from the inside out. As creative a thinker as he was,
Speaker 1: and with all of his offensive formations and schemes and
Speaker 1: everything he knew, it started at the line of scrimmage.
Speaker 1: He his first pick ever with the Cincinnati Bengals, Bob
Speaker 1: Johnson center, right in the middle of the offensive line.
Speaker 1: Built from the inside out. That was his whole mindset.
Speaker 1: So I have no problem with them addressed in lineman,
Speaker 1: you know, defensive an offensive lineman. They finally got that
Speaker 1: offensive lineman that took someone the pressure off in Riley Reef. Butch,
Speaker 1: I'm going to agree with your pick. From my favorite
Speaker 1: free agent signing thus far, it's Mike Hilton's my guy.
Speaker 1: For a couple of reasons one, and I like the
Speaker 1: fact that they got him for four years at a
Speaker 1: pretty reasonable price. It's going to get six million dollars
Speaker 1: a year, which is the most of any of the
Speaker 1: slot corner free agents this year, so it's not like
Speaker 1: he was super cheap. But still it's six million a year,
Speaker 1: it's not ten plus. I think slot corner is a
Speaker 1: hugely important position that you know, maybe is underrated in
Speaker 1: terms of its importance. Those guys are on the field
Speaker 1: now probably seventy five percent of the time, and I
Speaker 1: think he is one of the very best in the NFL.
Speaker 1: He's a playmaker. What does this defense lacked in recent
Speaker 1: year as a playmaker. Somebody that can come up with
Speaker 1: an interception. He's got seven. Somebody that can say at
Speaker 1: the quarterback from time to time. He's got nine and
Speaker 1: a half. Somebody that can force fumbles. He's got a
Speaker 1: few of those. I just really think that he adds
Speaker 1: that element to this defense with the added bonus of
Speaker 1: your stealing him from a division rival, which was also
Speaker 1: the case with Ogan Job and I love anytime you
Speaker 1: can do that. I think that's a good thing. Now,
Speaker 1: that's a good call. I mean pressure, pressure, pressure, They
Speaker 1: just haven't had it. I think the last three years
Speaker 1: they've been the lowest in the leave in sacks. And
Speaker 1: you get a guy in ojan Obie who's a hag
Speaker 1: killed that again, sorry, but in Larry, you got a
Speaker 1: guy in Larry. You got a guy when he was
Speaker 1: playing kind of a free technique in Cleveland, and laugh
Speaker 1: can speak it is probably better than I can. But
Speaker 1: I think in eighteen and nineteen he was he was
Speaker 1: playing nose, but he told me that he was kind
Speaker 1: of he had a little bit more. It wasn't a
Speaker 1: true nose. They played him at a two nose in
Speaker 1: twenty and he didn't didn't play on third down. So
Speaker 1: now he's going to be a pure he's gonna be
Speaker 1: at his actual position, a pure three technique, you know.
Speaker 1: And if you can get six, you know, if he
Speaker 1: could get six seven sacks out of a guy like that,
Speaker 1: that's uh, you know, that's uh, that's huge. And I
Speaker 1: and I, uh, it's interesting. Lat brought up Henderson and
Speaker 1: you know this is why you know, Pro Football Focus
Speaker 1: is great, love Pro Football Focus, but clearly the Bengals
Speaker 1: scouts have got it completely different than PFF. They've got
Speaker 1: you know, Henderson Mark really below Karl Lawson and why
Speaker 1: they have high regards the Lawson. I think they feel
Speaker 1: like and Lap mentioned this on the previous on the
Speaker 1: podcast last week, I think Bablieve Henderson is a better
Speaker 1: all around player. He's bigger, and he's bigger against the run.
Speaker 1: But it's amazing how you have these two things. You know,
Speaker 1: our Pro Football Focus just kills the deal. But that's
Speaker 1: the guy to Bengals really when you match it up,
Speaker 1: they would you know, Lawson grated so much better in PFF,
Speaker 1: but I think the Bengals feel like they get the
Speaker 1: better all around player from the football instinct standpoint. You know,
Speaker 1: Carl Lawson is a great athlete, but from football instincts,
Speaker 1: just okay, that guy's a ball player. That guy sees things,
Speaker 1: that guy's there even before it happened, and you know
Speaker 1: kind of thing. He's just a football player. I think
Speaker 1: Henderson's more of a quote football player in terms of seeing,
Speaker 1: seeing the game, understanding the game and and all that
Speaker 1: sort of thing. Lawson has some great physical tools, There's
Speaker 1: no question about it. He's you know, he's this explosive,
Speaker 1: uh you know, his first step quickness, his studdenness, all
Speaker 1: that stuff. But I think they are getting a more
Speaker 1: complete football player, and I do agree with you guys.
Speaker 1: Ogan Joby was like the ast knows, you know, they
Speaker 1: put him in a gap and they let him penetrate
Speaker 1: some and to me, hilt in the same way when
Speaker 1: you can invert the line of scrimmage. As a former alignman,
Speaker 1: guys that used to like worry me to death were
Speaker 1: guys that would you know, line up in gaps or
Speaker 1: be able to jump across your face with quickness and
Speaker 1: get penetration because now all of a sudden you can't
Speaker 1: attack with as much you know, uh, force and authority,
Speaker 1: because man, you're warning, where's this guy going? What's he doing?
Speaker 1: Those guys, those quick guys, they're tough to deal with,
Speaker 1: and they can invert the line of scrimmage on you
Speaker 1: the wrong way. So, Ogan Joby, you know, when you
Speaker 1: have a guy from a slot corner who can invert
Speaker 1: the line of scrimmage on you, you know, on running backs,
Speaker 1: on you know, matchups that favored him potentially as a
Speaker 1: pass rusher, and he's inverting the line of scrimmage and
Speaker 1: pressure in the quarterback. Not only is Sacks has tackle philosop,
Speaker 1: he's got a number of those, you know, in the
Speaker 1: running game. I mean he's he's made He's made a
Speaker 1: lot of negative plays, which are positive plays for the defense,
Speaker 1: negative plays to the offense. He's been responsible for a
Speaker 1: lot of those. And if they can get players that
Speaker 1: fit that attack mode, you know, and attack more. In
Speaker 1: my mind, football is punch, counter punch. Who's punching, who's
Speaker 1: doing the counter punching, you know, And I think defensively
Speaker 1: we've had we've had the CounterPunch too much. Maybe we
Speaker 1: can start punching a little bit more. And it's like
Speaker 1: you said on Hendrickson, and I've used this barge a
Speaker 1: quote and I have credited you thirteen and a half sacks.
Speaker 1: It's thirteen and a half secs. He got him, Yeah,
Speaker 1: no matter. I mean he was surrounded by great people,
Speaker 1: and he was playing with the lead with Drew Brees
Speaker 1: a quarterback. I mean there are a lot of factors there.
Speaker 1: I'm in a situation, you know, all he has to
Speaker 1: do any enough to worry about defending the run. Just
Speaker 1: rushed the passer in a lot of these down and
Speaker 1: distance situations. But the fact is he still generated thirteen
Speaker 1: and a half sacks. He still was the guy that
Speaker 1: got it done. All right? Next question, and Lap, you
Speaker 1: may have already answered this one with your mention of
Speaker 1: Kevin Zeitler, But is there a deal that another team
Speaker 1: gave a free agent that you wish that Bengals had done?
Speaker 1: What you go first? On this one. I was kind
Speaker 1: of with Lap about Zeitler, but we made after the draft.
Speaker 1: We may forget about that Zeitler depending on where the
Speaker 1: offensive line settles. But yeah, that was one. But I
Speaker 1: also when they when the Raiders signed John But why
Speaker 1: did receive John Brown for three point seven five? No
Speaker 1: for a year? You know, guy that can stretch the
Speaker 1: field probably exactly what with Ross gone on an AJN,
Speaker 1: probably exactly what they needed. Would have liked to have
Speaker 1: seen that, but who knows. There's some other guys out
Speaker 1: there too that I think they're looking at. But you know,
Speaker 1: that would have been would have been nice. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: going to stay with the Zeiler deal because I agree
Speaker 1: even if I signed Zeidler, I still would address Garden
Speaker 1: tackling the draft. I hope they still do still a
Speaker 1: draft address addressed tackling Garden the draft. But I think
Speaker 1: Zeiler would have come back here. I think you would
Speaker 1: have done a good job here And to your point earlier, Dan,
Speaker 1: he went to a division rival. So you know, the
Speaker 1: last place you'd like to see a guy that maybe
Speaker 1: you thought could help you go is to go help
Speaker 1: somebody that's you know, a playoff team in your division.
Speaker 1: And he fits Baltimore scheme perfectly because in my mind,
Speaker 1: he's a better run blocker than a pass protector. He's
Speaker 1: not terrible in pass protection. He only gave up you know,
Speaker 1: two sacks last year. You know, he six hundred and
Speaker 1: thirty snaps, gave up two sacks twenty eight pressures. That's
Speaker 1: pretty damn good. But with that gap running game and
Speaker 1: with Lamar Jackson, you know, run the ball as well
Speaker 1: as the running backs. They have that big old brute
Speaker 1: man with the gap and pulling. He's a good puller.
Speaker 1: He fits their scheme perfectly. So when he ended up
Speaker 1: going to Baltimore's, like god damn, not only didn't we
Speaker 1: get him, he went somewhere that is a perfect marriage
Speaker 1: for both parties. You know, but the Ravens paid him more,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean money talks, no matter why what
Speaker 1: the situation. Do we know for a fact that the
Speaker 1: Bengals weren't close on that dollar figure. I mean, where
Speaker 1: the Bengals willing to pay roughly as much seven million
Speaker 1: a year, and and Kevin Zeitler said, you know what,
Speaker 1: this is the offense and the team I want to
Speaker 1: play with. I don't know the answer to that question.
Speaker 1: I heard. I heard that the Ravens definitely offered more money.
Speaker 1: I don't think it was crazy more, but it was
Speaker 1: more money. So you say more money plus like you said,
Speaker 1: and we mentioned earlier, there's scheme the teams in the playoffs.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, why why would you not go
Speaker 1: there if they offer If they offer you, I don't
Speaker 1: I don't care how much more. If it's if it's
Speaker 1: a little a little bit more money and what they
Speaker 1: have on the table. I could see where he'd make
Speaker 1: that decision. I was gonna ask Lapis and I was
Speaker 1: gonna ask lapp a question when it came when when
Speaker 1: it comes to pass protection, where would you put Zeitler
Speaker 1: compared to Spain quintin Spain with the with the Bengals,
Speaker 1: have you reportedly resigned Spain is a much bigger body guy,
Speaker 1: you know, much thicker, bigger, let's get good feet. I
Speaker 1: think that gives him, you know, a little bit of
Speaker 1: an edge in protection. Um, I don't. I don't see
Speaker 1: Zeiler having an advantage. I see Zier having an advantage,
Speaker 1: you know, in movement went as a point guard and
Speaker 1: that sort of thing, and and and angle blocking and
Speaker 1: you know things that That's why I say, man, uh,
Speaker 1: he's basically on the lineup. They struggled to replace Marshall
Speaker 1: Yonda at right guard. When Yonda retired. They think, now
Speaker 1: they've got a guy. They're not saying I'm not saying
Speaker 1: I don't think they're saying that it's going to be
Speaker 1: a future Hall of Famer like Marshall Yonda, but he's
Speaker 1: a damn good player. Kevin zeit was a solid player well.
Speaker 1: With Roddie Stanley back and Kevin Zeitler added and Orlando
Speaker 1: Brown moving back to the right side, that is a
Speaker 1: mighty offensive line again, so look out for the Ravens. So,
Speaker 1: speaking of the Bengals offensive line, They've signed Riley Reef,
Speaker 1: they are bringing back Clinton Spain. Are they done spending
Speaker 1: on the offensive line or is there still maybe a
Speaker 1: guard out there that they would try to get on
Speaker 1: a cheapo one year deal? Lap What do you think
Speaker 1: I'm not sure that if there's anybody that they'd they
Speaker 1: probably purchased at this point in time, I think they're
Speaker 1: almost they're probably they probably almost exhausted their cap. You know,
Speaker 1: to be able to go out and give a veteran
Speaker 1: player of any substance would probably require more than they've got.
Speaker 1: You know. That's why people are, oh, man, this Giovanni
Speaker 1: Bernard potential trade rumor boll that's a four million dollar
Speaker 1: cap saving that would add more money to the kitty
Speaker 1: to continue some of their free agency signings and their
Speaker 1: roster purge. I mean, you look at it right now,
Speaker 1: going into the draft, before the draft, and then June one,
Speaker 1: there's gonna be a bunch of other players cut. There's
Speaker 1: still gonna be a bunch of cuts that are gonna happen.
Speaker 1: You watch these one year deals, They're gonna be happening
Speaker 1: left and right. Maybe then they can maybe go out
Speaker 1: and get a guy for one year, you know, a
Speaker 1: one year proven deal. So many guys are saying, terrible
Speaker 1: year to be a free agent. I'll just do a
Speaker 1: one year and bet on meat deal. They've only got
Speaker 1: five starters the last game of the season on the
Speaker 1: depth chart for January fourth to twenty twenty one, there
Speaker 1: are five starters left, six new players, and defensively there
Speaker 1: are four starters left, seven new players. And that's before
Speaker 1: the draft and then maybe other potential free agency after
Speaker 1: the June first, uh, you know date when other other cuts.
Speaker 1: A lot of blood is gonna flow on that, on
Speaker 1: that data around in the league as well. It's not
Speaker 1: it's not an impossibility, but I think it's it's probably
Speaker 1: a little probable. Trade turner, Larry Warford, Collecchi, Assembly, any
Speaker 1: anybody interest you butch all those guys, But I don't
Speaker 1: know are they you know, they've all they've all had
Speaker 1: pretty good careers. I'm not sure where they are where
Speaker 1: they are now. And I think Lap touched on this
Speaker 1: last week too, is they looked at these people that
Speaker 1: were out there and maybe for two and a half
Speaker 1: guys maybe, but for two and a half guys, one
Speaker 1: of them being funny, they thought the people on the
Speaker 1: market were, you know, were significantly better than what they've
Speaker 1: got a guard. You know, I'm just not sure that
Speaker 1: they feel like there's a huge now. I I you know,
Speaker 1: when things, you know, I think things change. When I
Speaker 1: think they have their eyes on guys who are still
Speaker 1: under contract, but who they are expected to get whacked
Speaker 1: that not only a guard but also at wide receiver.
Speaker 1: I don't think they've signed their last guy, and I
Speaker 1: think they'll probably sign the receiver. And I agree, I
Speaker 1: think I think that they're the guys you mentioned Dan.
Speaker 1: Obviously they're all attractive, but man, they're wanting. They're wanting
Speaker 1: more money than the banks are able to offer right now.
Speaker 1: As free agency extends goes on, prices are going to
Speaker 1: come down. You know who's going to come down the
Speaker 1: furthest who's going to come down the most. So, you know,
Speaker 1: I think they're still going to grind. I don't think
Speaker 1: they're packing up shop, but I don't I don't think
Speaker 1: they find they see a fit yet at this point
Speaker 1: in time where they would they would pull the trigger
Speaker 1: and they might, you know, say let's see what we
Speaker 1: get in the draft, Let's see what happens. And you
Speaker 1: know that that now you're go into the draft with
Speaker 1: a much different look and idea than before free agency
Speaker 1: with all these signings that you've had, you know, with
Speaker 1: your defensive depth and some starters, and you know you've
Speaker 1: address one position offensively, your right tackle position potential, but
Speaker 1: depending on what you get in the draft, you might
Speaker 1: be able to kick him inside the guard Riley Reef.
Speaker 1: Who knows. So you go into each phase that with
Speaker 1: a different mindset after you've done operating in the particular
Speaker 1: phase that you're in. Ryan Kerrigan visited on Thursday without
Speaker 1: a deal getting done. Then Tom Pallisero reported that the
Speaker 1: Bengals were fielding calls on Giovanni Bernard possibility of trading him,
Speaker 1: as Lamp mentioned a free up more than four million
Speaker 1: against the cap. Where those two things related, butch the
Speaker 1: fact that they weren't able to get something done with
Speaker 1: Ryan Carrigan and maybe the need to create some more space. No,
Speaker 1: I think they're I think that's uh, I think that's isolated.
Speaker 1: I think they're a good thirty million. I think they've
Speaker 1: spent a good thirty million on the cap for this
Speaker 1: year with those five six seven new players. So they
Speaker 1: maybe they're trying to, uh, you know, I think they're
Speaker 1: trying to get some breathing room just for those you
Speaker 1: know and plus two, uh you know, you don't know.
Speaker 1: They may end up their rookie pool might get a
Speaker 1: little bit bigger if they do actually say they do
Speaker 1: end up trading that fifth pick, you know, you end
Speaker 1: up with two. You know, you end up with another
Speaker 1: high second round pick. Who knows. So you know they've
Speaker 1: done They've done a lot of good They've done a
Speaker 1: lot of good work, and they've put up a number
Speaker 1: that I'm not sure they thought they were going to
Speaker 1: hit because I think they, you know, like Lap said,
Speaker 1: they did a hell of a job. I think pivoting
Speaker 1: early on when they saw that the prices were not
Speaker 1: going to be reduced because of the reduced cap, they
Speaker 1: were still there were still a pre pandemic numbers, and
Speaker 1: so you know, that's that's uh, you know, there's I
Speaker 1: think they're looking to find ways to do some different
Speaker 1: things and still trying to even probably fit the guys
Speaker 1: they already got. Lap one about the Ryan Carrigan possibility,
Speaker 1: thirty two years old, four time pro bowler, the Redskins
Speaker 1: all time leader in sacks, obviously, and being nice to
Speaker 1: have somebody else that has a track record for getting
Speaker 1: after the quarterback. But how much gas is left in
Speaker 1: that tank? That's the question. Gas in the tank, tread
Speaker 1: on the tire, you know, taking a lot of hits,
Speaker 1: a lot of wear and tear on the body. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm assuming on these visits guys take physicals. That's the
Speaker 1: thing with these draft prospects. You're gonna be able to
Speaker 1: have you doctors put their hands on the particularly guys
Speaker 1: that had incurred an injury. Some of these veteran free agents,
Speaker 1: you know, deals might be contingent on how they are physical.
Speaker 1: I mean, the longer a guy plays, the more potential
Speaker 1: injuries over the years start to mount up and become
Speaker 1: issues with guys and affect their level of play. I
Speaker 1: think too, that it might be just a situation where
Speaker 1: he might still be looking for more money than they're
Speaker 1: willing to offer, but they wanted to bring him in,
Speaker 1: talk to him, check him out, see what he's about,
Speaker 1: just because it hasn't happened yet, hasn't happened anywhere else
Speaker 1: yet either. He still may be out there. So I think,
Speaker 1: you know, they've exhibited that other P word might be talked,
Speaker 1: you know, pivoting. We've said a couple of times that patience,
Speaker 1: and it's like patience, Daniel Son, you know, don't don't
Speaker 1: get Wang chung. At this point in time, there's going
Speaker 1: to be there's going to be other possibilities, and if
Speaker 1: it's not this guy, it might be a guy in
Speaker 1: the draft that might be revisited if they don't get
Speaker 1: an edge rush guy, and there are some there's some
Speaker 1: depth at edge rush, there's some depth in the offensive line,
Speaker 1: and there's depth at receiver, and interestingly enough, there's still
Speaker 1: a lot of receivers out there that aren't signed. Who
Speaker 1: got the money. Trent Williams got a record amount at
Speaker 1: left tackle, Tuney got almost record amounted guard build from
Speaker 1: the inside out like the legendary Paul Brown said, the
Speaker 1: team's only had one thing to worry about and could
Speaker 1: spend a ton of cap dollars on it. That's all
Speaker 1: San Francisco did. That's basically all Kansas City did. The
Speaker 1: Bengals weren't in that position. The Bengals had multiple you know,
Speaker 1: they'd rather have a bunch of spread the money out
Speaker 1: over a bunch of people that might be able to
Speaker 1: help the roster, rather than throwing it all on one
Speaker 1: and you're all or nothing on a guy with Trent
Speaker 1: Williams who's in his thirties, you know, Tuney, who's been
Speaker 1: around a little bit. I mean that's that can be
Speaker 1: sometimes a dangerous playing free agency. It can work out
Speaker 1: as well, but the Bengals decided, you know, to basically
Speaker 1: spread the money amongst multiple and I'm all for doubling down. Man,
Speaker 1: You throw all your money in one pot and free agency, man,
Speaker 1: you can you can crap out in the old blackjack
Speaker 1: table quickly. Yeah. I think in this draft, I think
Speaker 1: there's a shot they come out of the two edge
Speaker 1: rushers yep, and you know, and a guard and attacker
Speaker 1: and a wide receiver. They gotta go get a speed
Speaker 1: receiver somewhere. Gotta go get one. Let's move on to
Speaker 1: a couple of former Bengals who have signed elsewhere. Andy Dalton,
Speaker 1: Chicago Bears, a J Green, Arizona Cardinals. How are they
Speaker 1: going to do in their new destinations? Lap You can
Speaker 1: give a battle lead off on this one. I feel
Speaker 1: bad for Andy Dalton. No matter who the quarterback that
Speaker 1: the Bears signed, he was going to get abused because
Speaker 1: Russell Wilson is not a Chicago Bear. The whole city
Speaker 1: was infatuated with Russell Wilson's coming to Chicago. They're all
Speaker 1: all pumped up. And then and Andy Dalton's the guy
Speaker 1: or whoever was going to be the guy is the guy. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, I think I think Andy Dalton still can
Speaker 1: do the things that he's done mentally over his career,
Speaker 1: and that is be a problem solver. Identify defenses quickly,
Speaker 1: know where to go at the football, how to get
Speaker 1: it there. You know, Andy was as good as I've
Speaker 1: seen coming into the league. Joe Burrows right in that
Speaker 1: category as well. Joe Burrows probably you know, maybe doctor
Speaker 1: at Andy Andy Daltons the grad school plus you know,
Speaker 1: maybe master's plus thirty and just right below that doctor level.
Speaker 1: I mean, so those kind of things coaches like Bill
Speaker 1: Laser is up there. Bill Laser knows he can do
Speaker 1: that kind of thing as a as a former lineman.
Speaker 1: His lineman is gonna love how he gets the ball
Speaker 1: out of his hand quickly. It's going to make their
Speaker 1: protection life so much easier. I mean, he's gonna do
Speaker 1: a lot of things that that the Chicago Bears I
Speaker 1: think are gonna like the thing that he has to
Speaker 1: make sure that he doesn't do. Though, don't turn it
Speaker 1: over because the Bears have a great defense, So don't
Speaker 1: put the offense. Make the opposite. Always bear in mind
Speaker 1: the opposing offense. Make them go to the length the
Speaker 1: field against that Bears defense don't give short fields. You
Speaker 1: know that the Bears defense can't be as dominant as
Speaker 1: they might be able to be when the offense is
Speaker 1: in more of a predicament. So it's all about not
Speaker 1: turning the football over and in Andy Dalton knows that.
Speaker 1: I think as well as anybody and as far as
Speaker 1: AJ Green is concerned, it's going to be very interesting. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, will Larry Fitzgerald come back if he doesn't
Speaker 1: AJ Green? Probably. It's like the third guy. AJ Green
Speaker 1: last year was the third guy here in Cincinnati. So
Speaker 1: as the third guy, you're facing you know, the third
Speaker 1: corner and when you're playing man, if you playing zone,
Speaker 1: it's a different ball game. But if you're matching up
Speaker 1: in man coverage, you know, I was expected to a
Speaker 1: light up those third corners. We talked about it during
Speaker 1: the year. Then when you know, when aj season started
Speaker 1: unfolded progress at this point in time, the way Talboyd
Speaker 1: and T Higgins are planning AJ Green, he's getting their
Speaker 1: third cover guy, the third best guy, and he wasn't
Speaker 1: tearing that guy up. You know, it wasn't winning at
Speaker 1: the level that that I thought that I might see um,
Speaker 1: but you know, a new place, new lease on life.
Speaker 1: A quarterback that is extremely talented, can create plays and
Speaker 1: extend plays, can throw the football. It's going to be
Speaker 1: interest interesting to see, you know. If Aj Green Um
Speaker 1: just you know, gets a burst of energy. I think
Speaker 1: I think that the the the biggest surprise to me
Speaker 1: was AJ's body language through the whole thing. He almost
Speaker 1: played like he was disinterested. You know, he had that
Speaker 1: look of a disinterest body language wise, and when you
Speaker 1: see his face in the sideline, you know, it just
Speaker 1: it just didn't seem like it was working, like it
Speaker 1: was a fit. And he talked about how, you know,
Speaker 1: it was hard for him. They were asking him to
Speaker 1: do different things and it wasn't coming easy to him.
Speaker 1: He wasn't learning things, you know, as well as or
Speaker 1: as quickly as he says he would have liked to.
Speaker 1: So he has to learn a whole new offense, you know,
Speaker 1: and that's not aj strong suit necessarily. So how long
Speaker 1: will it take Aja to digest, comprehend and uh and
Speaker 1: be able to go out there and uh and perform
Speaker 1: you know, if they if they decided he was he was.
Speaker 1: He didn't like the fact that he was just like
Speaker 1: put in one spot. Well, in order to learn a
Speaker 1: new offense. They may start him out just playing in
Speaker 1: one spot until he can master that, and then they'll
Speaker 1: try to expand, you know, um, some of the other
Speaker 1: parts of what he might be able to contribute. But
Speaker 1: it's going to be interesting to see how the whole
Speaker 1: thing unfolds. I haven't seen a guy get I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, like I mean in Chicago. I haven't seen
Speaker 1: a guy in Chicago get worse pressed maybe since uh
Speaker 1: Abraham Lincoln in the first debate against Steve Douglas. I
Speaker 1: mean that was, Yeah, that was that was a tough welcome. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, but like Laps said, you know, he's going
Speaker 1: to a good defense. Don't forget Andy Dalton when Mike
Speaker 1: Zimo was a defensive coordinator. Uh, and Andy Dalton didn't
Speaker 1: lose a lot of games, you know, I mean, he
Speaker 1: wanted enough games to go to five playoffs and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, Andy get ripped so badly here. Yeah, there
Speaker 1: was some you know, some call for it, but my god,
Speaker 1: I mean people forget that. Going into the twenty nineteen season,
Speaker 1: I think he had more fourth quarter comebacks in that
Speaker 1: stretch you get into the league since uh, everybody but
Speaker 1: one guy, and uh, you know he had more than
Speaker 1: Tom Brady, So I mean, the guy can win games.
Speaker 1: He put him with a good defense. You know, I
Speaker 1: think it will uh you know, it's going to be
Speaker 1: miserable for him probably, But I would I would think,
Speaker 1: you know, I think he'll give it. I think he'll
Speaker 1: give it a good go. Lat made a good point
Speaker 1: about a J. I would think, you know, when I
Speaker 1: had a chance to talk to him, he was excited
Speaker 1: about them, about his fit in that scheme in Arizona.
Speaker 1: He compared it to what basically kens Ampezi and Bill
Speaker 1: Laser ran here. Uh but when when they were the
Speaker 1: coordinators and you know it's it's uh, you know, people
Speaker 1: forget this, but that that twenty eighteen season before AJ
Speaker 1: got hurt, I mean he was on fire. I mean
Speaker 1: he was. He was, you know, going to be uh
Speaker 1: getting near his career high. You know, the three touchdowns
Speaker 1: against Baltimore when they put him in the slot. I
Speaker 1: think I think I think he lined up in the
Speaker 1: slot on all three you know those touchdowns. He was
Speaker 1: That's something that he mentioned was you know they lined
Speaker 1: them bump into one spot here, they're lined them up
Speaker 1: at the X in this last offense, and I think
Speaker 1: he feels like Arizona is going to move him around
Speaker 1: a little bit and that he'll probably run more, you know,
Speaker 1: he won't run as many. And I think Lapp was right.
Speaker 1: And AJ didn't mention this in his last news conference.
Speaker 1: Was you know, it was a new you know, I'm
Speaker 1: not sure he was into the routes that they wanted
Speaker 1: him to run, so at least I think mentally he's
Speaker 1: going into it feeling like it's a better it's a
Speaker 1: better fit form, you know. And like lap mentioned um,
Speaker 1: you know, you know, does he have any Jews left?
Speaker 1: You know, I mean he did not go you know,
Speaker 1: when they were looking at te Higgins and Tyler Boyd,
Speaker 1: you figured he'd go off. It didn't happen. Didn't happen
Speaker 1: because of the system that had happened, because you've got
Speaker 1: nothing left. Did it happened? You know, why did it happen?
Speaker 1: We're not gonna know, you know, we'll probably get a
Speaker 1: better We'll probably get a better answer when we see
Speaker 1: what happens, when we see what happens out there. I
Speaker 1: wish the best form, I wish the best for both guys.
Speaker 1: You know, without them, there is no Green Dalton era. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they Andy Ajer, like you talked about push five straight
Speaker 1: playoffs fifty and twenty five over seventy five games. They
Speaker 1: won twice as many as they lost. I mean that
Speaker 1: and they were the two, you know, big primary reasons
Speaker 1: for it. I mean, that's what people forget about Andy Dalton.
Speaker 1: The start of his career was about as good as anybody's.
Speaker 1: I mean, you wouldn't twice as many games as you
Speaker 1: lose in your first five years in the league and
Speaker 1: have and start right away as a rookie quarterback. That's
Speaker 1: that's a that's a hell of an accomplishment. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: was right up until the play where he broke his
Speaker 1: thumb fifty and twenty five until that game in twenty
Speaker 1: fifteen when he broke his thumb. Right, He's going to
Speaker 1: say when with you know, when you know Zach Taylor
Speaker 1: coming in, tuck for Zach Taylor too, to fit him
Speaker 1: into his to to build a scheme because Ajie gets
Speaker 1: hurt like in his first practice, that Taylor is a
Speaker 1: coach and so is he is he is he scheming
Speaker 1: for aj Green of twenty fifteen. Aj Green of twenty twenty.
Speaker 1: It's a hard It was a hard call for everybody,
Speaker 1: and then you're throwing the pandemic where they couldn't have
Speaker 1: worked together with a rookie quarterback. It was a perfect storm.
Speaker 1: It just goes to show you, no matter how great
Speaker 1: the player is, the mind has to be right. Mind
Speaker 1: can't be cluttered, you know, I mean it, and yep,
Speaker 1: your mindset has to be uh has to be really good.
Speaker 1: And I'll tell you know, AJ that that guy is
Speaker 1: solid gold. I mean as as a as a player,
Speaker 1: as a human being, you know, one of the one
Speaker 1: of the greats of all time. And obviously wish him
Speaker 1: nothing but success than the m he don't like you mentioned,
Speaker 1: but I'd like to know how last year would have
Speaker 1: gone if the referee did what he should have done
Speaker 1: and keep the flag in his pocket and play against
Speaker 1: the Chargers in the opening game. Maybe that helps him,
Speaker 1: Maybe it doesn't. Maybe I'm a homer. I don't keep
Speaker 1: the flag in the pocket. You know, AJ got no
Speaker 1: separation last year. I don't know why that was the case.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's because of age. I don't
Speaker 1: know if it was because he missed the previous year
Speaker 1: and a half due to injury. I don't know if
Speaker 1: it was the comfort level in the offense, but your
Speaker 1: eye told you that that he didn't get any separation.
Speaker 1: The GPS data told you that that he didn't get
Speaker 1: any separation. So to me, it seems like as he
Speaker 1: gets older he'll be thirty three this season, that's probably
Speaker 1: not going to get better. It's going to get worse.
Speaker 1: I hope he proves me wrong, because I love AJ
Speaker 1: and I would love to see him have a great
Speaker 1: finish to his career in Arizona. But I do wonder
Speaker 1: what the Cardinals are doing. I mean, do they think
Speaker 1: that there is an over thirty league for football that
Speaker 1: I'm not familiar with, because you know, JJ Watts one
Speaker 1: of the great defensive players of all time, but he's
Speaker 1: thirty one and has a building injury history. You know
Speaker 1: Malcolm Butler, they just signed him, He's in his thirties.
Speaker 1: AJ is going to be thirty three. They went out
Speaker 1: and added a thirty seven year old kicker in Matt Crater.
Speaker 1: So I think the overwhelming history in the NFL is
Speaker 1: that if you go out and sign thirty year old
Speaker 1: and older free agents, it doesn't work. And they're signing
Speaker 1: one after the other. I guess what they're saying is
Speaker 1: they're all in for this year, right because next year
Speaker 1: probably not going to be. Any of these guys are
Speaker 1: gonna be honest, If you end up signing guys and
Speaker 1: rewarding them for careers they have with other teams, that's
Speaker 1: dangerous policy there. You know, if you're signing the JJ
Speaker 1: Watt based on what he was with the Texans and
Speaker 1: what he was with the Texans five years ago, or
Speaker 1: you're signing an Aj Green what he was with the Bengas,
Speaker 1: what he was at the Bengas three years ago, that
Speaker 1: can be a dangerous thing. The other I can tell
Speaker 1: you for from experience, if you have any doubt in
Speaker 1: your mind or aren't confident as an athlete, if you
Speaker 1: line up to pass protect, like when I was pass
Speaker 1: protecting or trying to against Joe Green and I thought, oh,
Speaker 1: this isn't going to go. Well, you're done, You're beaten.
Speaker 1: I mean, if AJ lined up, it's like, what am
Speaker 1: I supposed to do on this? I'm not sure about this.
Speaker 1: I don't really believe in this. You're not gonna You're
Speaker 1: not gonna win, you know, So your mind has to
Speaker 1: be totally free and clear. You can't have any doubt
Speaker 1: about the scheme, the coaching, anything else, or you're in
Speaker 1: trouble and and uh, you know, maybe that's when when
Speaker 1: guys say I needed a new destination, I needed a
Speaker 1: new location, a change of scenery. That's kind of what
Speaker 1: they're talking about. For whatever reason, maybe it was both ways,
Speaker 1: both parties off confidence and trust in each other or whatever.
Speaker 1: Who knows what the situation is, and every one of
Speaker 1: them is a little bit different. But change of scenery,
Speaker 1: you know, in some instances might be just exactly that.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna start fresh, start with a clean slate, an
Speaker 1: open mind. My head is clear, and I believe, and
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go out there and kick butt like I
Speaker 1: used to. I mean, who knows, we'll see. DeAndre Hopkins
Speaker 1: had one hundred and fifteen catches last year, so AJ
Speaker 1: is not going to be the number one target or
Speaker 1: even the number two target if fift DeAndre Hopkins is
Speaker 1: healthy in Arizona last year, Larry Fitzgerald had fifty four
Speaker 1: catches for four hundred and nine yards. It was like
Speaker 1: seven yards per catch. AJ Green can obviously do that.
Speaker 1: I mean, he was a little better than that for
Speaker 1: Cincinnati last year. So if that's what the Cardinals they're
Speaker 1: looking for, the guys that can get fifty catches average China,
Speaker 1: maybe close to ten yards at catches a third option,
Speaker 1: then he can deliver that. But if if they are
Speaker 1: expecting him to be the AJ Green from his first
Speaker 1: seven years in Cincinnati, I don't think there's much of
Speaker 1: a chance of that being the case. That's a good point.
Speaker 1: Then maybe they said, you know what, we're getting a
Speaker 1: younger Larry Fitzgerald. AJ Green is almost a carbon copy
Speaker 1: of Larry Fitzgerald personality wise performance, you know, not Larry
Speaker 1: Fitzgerald can't run flat out speed like AJ. But I
Speaker 1: mean obviously great route runner, great understanding football and all
Speaker 1: that production level though. I mean they're both Pro Bowl players,
Speaker 1: multiple time Pro Bowl players, future Hall of Fame type
Speaker 1: player with great people skills on and off the football field.
Speaker 1: Maybe they thought, let's get a younger version of Larry
Speaker 1: Fitzgerald and that's what we're expecting. They paid what six
Speaker 1: million guaranteed eight million contract. That's pretty good eats for
Speaker 1: if that's what their expectation was. You know, as for
Speaker 1: Andy Dalton in Chicago, he just better have tough skin
Speaker 1: he and JJ because you know, as you guys alluded to,
Speaker 1: it's already started and he hasn't even played a game
Speaker 1: yet in a Chicago uniform. The Bears posted a picture
Speaker 1: on Twitter yesterday or the day before of him in
Speaker 1: his new number fourteen Bears jersey. Somebody photo shopped it
Speaker 1: and made it two and fourteen on the front of
Speaker 1: the jersey, which was not very nice. And I don't
Speaker 1: know if you guys saw the Wheel of Fortune gag
Speaker 1: that was out there last week after he signed his
Speaker 1: deal with Chicago, but somebody posted the picture of the
Speaker 1: Wheel of Fortune board and you see, like on the
Speaker 1: top line there are four blank letters and then on
Speaker 1: the bottom line it's blank blank L blank O N
Speaker 1: and a Bears fan says, I would like to answer
Speaker 1: the puzzle Russ Wilson, and he's all happy, and then
Speaker 1: the letters turn over and it says Andy Dalton and
Speaker 1: he's destroyed. So they are having a lot of fun
Speaker 1: at Andy's expense. In the games he started for Dallas
Speaker 1: last year, the Cowboys were four and five. I think
Speaker 1: that the Bears are going to be roughly a five
Speaker 1: hundred team. Their defense is good enough, that's what they
Speaker 1: were last year with you know, Nick Foles and Mitch
Speaker 1: Drubisky at quarterback, and he will be okay, he'll be
Speaker 1: somewhere around you know, twentieth and passer rating or something
Speaker 1: like that. And I see them being a middle of
Speaker 1: the pack eight and nine, nine and eight type team.
Speaker 1: That's right. Abraham Wincoln had it tough on social media.
Speaker 1: He had it even worse than Ford's theater unfortunately. Yeah,
Speaker 1: all right, before we move on to some ask Lap
Speaker 1: or in this case ask a Lapping, Butch questions one
Speaker 1: more thing from me, and that is another all time
Speaker 1: Bengals great who has been let go. He hasn't signed
Speaker 1: on another team yet. That is Geno Atkins. What is
Speaker 1: your favorite Geno Atkins memory? Butch, you want to go
Speaker 1: first for this one. It involves the man sitting right here.
Speaker 1: I didn't have much in our action with Gino, so
Speaker 1: I don't but Lap. When Lap was calling the December
Speaker 1: twenty third, twenty twelve game in Pittsburgh, when that great
Speaker 1: Bengals defense stone Pittsburgh to get into the playoffs, and
Speaker 1: Lap was punctuating each Geno play with Geno Atkins, I
Speaker 1: mean it was, I mean, Juno was dominant that day.
Speaker 1: You know, that was kind of his coming out Patty.
Speaker 1: He was already a great play it was already a pro.
Speaker 1: But I think that game he established himself and it
Speaker 1: was Hey. I mean, it made one of the great
Speaker 1: analysts in the game. Break in the song. I remember
Speaker 1: in the locker room after that, in the locker room,
Speaker 1: he was looking for him. He goes, I'm looking for
Speaker 1: Geno act. It was great. That was my That's my
Speaker 1: one Geno memory in my one Geno game. I'm glad
Speaker 1: you asked me first, because that might be laps memory too.
Speaker 1: My memory is Geno Atkins. When you go again a
Speaker 1: rookie or a young or just somebody that had never
Speaker 1: practiced against Geno Atkins before in pass rush drill, and
Speaker 1: I would position myself to look at the face of
Speaker 1: the opposing offensive lineman when Gino stormed off the ball
Speaker 1: and started bull rushing them, and the guys jacked up.
Speaker 1: He's on skates, he can't get his feed back on
Speaker 1: the ground, and his eyes were as biggest hard boiled
Speaker 1: eggs and Gino Atkins is throwing them around like a
Speaker 1: rag doll. And I'm like, welcome to the world. To
Speaker 1: Geno Atkins. That was the most I mean, these are
Speaker 1: grown men, big body guys, and Gino in his prime
Speaker 1: was just tooling them, I mean throwing them around like there.
Speaker 1: It was a man amongst boys, and I would just
Speaker 1: love to watch training camp, pass rush, drill. And the
Speaker 1: first exposure of those guys had to the real Gino
Speaker 1: Atkins coming off to football man, he was unbelievable. He'd
Speaker 1: break them all in. He didn't doctrinate him for the
Speaker 1: way of Gino. My on the old favorite memory of
Speaker 1: Gino is from the same game that Butch mentioned, that
Speaker 1: two twelve game in Pittsburgh where the Bengals beat the
Speaker 1: Steelers two days before Christmas. They earned the playoff berth.
Speaker 1: They knocked the Steelers out of the playoffs on their
Speaker 1: home field, and the reason in my case is that
Speaker 1: that is the most physical football game I have ever
Speaker 1: seen in my life on both sides. I mean, that
Speaker 1: was an absolute fifteen round heavyweight fight. The Bengals sacked
Speaker 1: brought the burger four times, the Steelers sat Andy six times,
Speaker 1: the Bengals hit Ben seven times, the Steelers hit Andy
Speaker 1: eight times. And of all of those warriors that were
Speaker 1: out there that day, throwing Haymakers. Gino was the guy
Speaker 1: that stood out the most. His final stats. He had
Speaker 1: two sacks in that game, but he was actually in
Speaker 1: on three, so he had one solo and two shared sacks.
Speaker 1: He had a forced fumble, he had another tackle for loss.
Speaker 1: I mean, the Steelers could not handle him in that game.
Speaker 1: Bengals wind up on the last second field bow by
Speaker 1: Josh Brown to go to the playoffs. And for an
Speaker 1: on field memory, that one is number one for me.
Speaker 1: I remember guys like Richie Incognito, you know when he
Speaker 1: was a pro bowler, and other guys, even even at
Speaker 1: the Pro Bowl, those guys would just say, Geno Atkins
Speaker 1: will start shaking their head. I mean, Geno Atkins was
Speaker 1: definitely a freak of nature. I mean, just on that short,
Speaker 1: that short stout frame, he was so explosive, so strong,
Speaker 1: low center or gravity nightmare, nightmare. You gotta keep your
Speaker 1: pad level low. And even when you keep it low,
Speaker 1: it's awkward for you because his pad levels already low.
Speaker 1: You have to come off on your kneecaps instead of
Speaker 1: your feet to stay as low as Gino and his
Speaker 1: day boy, he was unblockable one on one. They would
Speaker 1: never I mean I've watched games and he'd play an
Speaker 1: entire game and never be single blocked and pass protection
Speaker 1: not one time. Do you think Gino made it to be,
Speaker 1: you know, with the leverage game, to be a short game,
Speaker 1: you know, I think they were. I remember playing against
Speaker 1: guys like Dave Purify, Dave Roller. These defensive tackles were
Speaker 1: you know, like the short short player like you talked about.
Speaker 1: They weren't Gino. You know. Dave Roller had a spin
Speaker 1: move was his big move. These guys had signature, you know,
Speaker 1: moves pacinos was I'm just gonna line up and kick
Speaker 1: your butt with my explosiveness, my strength. So yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think I think anytime a guy um of that
Speaker 1: different stature, like Sam Mills playing linebacker, you know, five ten,
Speaker 1: five nine, and it's like unheard of before you can't
Speaker 1: play middle linebacker in the NFL at five to nine.
Speaker 1: I played against him in the USFL before we went
Speaker 1: to the NFL. That dude could play. I don't care
Speaker 1: how tall that dude was a player. And uh yeah,
Speaker 1: I think you know Doug Gluti at quarterback, there's a
Speaker 1: There are all kinds of guys who break trends. I
Speaker 1: think Gino had fallen that category, butch, I mean that
Speaker 1: not only made it, but made it big. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, perennial pro bowler. We're talking because I think
Speaker 1: Aaron Donald was. I think Aaron Donald a few years
Speaker 1: after that was, you know, a first round picking. You
Speaker 1: never would have seen a first round defensive tackle at
Speaker 1: his dimension. Yeah, I mean for Gino to be all
Speaker 1: the Pro Bowls that he went to as a fourth
Speaker 1: round pick, one of the best value picks in franchise history.
Speaker 1: Let's face it, him and Trump twelfth round in Trumpy's case.
Speaker 1: I do actually have a Geno Atkins off the field
Speaker 1: memory back in two thou eleven, when when the Bengals
Speaker 1: were nice enough to give you Friday afternoons off lap
Speaker 1: and I used to do the Pepper Rally Show with
Speaker 1: Archell Hawkins. Gino Atkins came on and did one hour
Speaker 1: on the radio with us, which you know he would
Speaker 1: never do. Now. He was perfectly fine. I thought he
Speaker 1: was good, The fans loved it. I wish that would
Speaker 1: have continued. But after he tore his ACL in twenty
Speaker 1: thirteen and then you know, wasn't quite as good the
Speaker 1: next year before eventually returning to his great form, took
Speaker 1: some criticism. Paul Gunther wasn't very kind and describing his play,
Speaker 1: it seemed like that was the point where he shut
Speaker 1: it down to the media. And unfortunately, the notion of
Speaker 1: doing an hour of radio on location with with Gino
Speaker 1: Atkins could never happen again. My career conversations with you
Speaker 1: would not add up to an hour run them all together.
Speaker 1: It's a shame because he was fine when he did
Speaker 1: that news conference after he signed his most recent contract extension.
Speaker 1: He was fine. I don't know if he just didn't
Speaker 1: like doing it or didn't think he was good good
Speaker 1: at doing interviews, but I wish that would have continued
Speaker 1: because that that one hour show with him was great.
Speaker 1: We have him on multiple times Dan, you know, early
Speaker 1: in his career on Bengals Final Monday Night for an
Speaker 1: hour and he was great. You're right. I think he
Speaker 1: just somebody something happened. He felt like he get betrayed
Speaker 1: by somebody, and he shut it down. He said, that's it,
Speaker 1: I'm done with all of you. Whatever. That one incident
Speaker 1: was erected for everybody. I don't know what it was
Speaker 1: or how big it was, but in Geno's mind, it
Speaker 1: was big enough to shut it all down. All right,
Speaker 1: let's get to some of the ask Lap questions that
Speaker 1: came rolling in on Twitter this week. We will expand
Speaker 1: it to ask Lap and Butch, but since they were
Speaker 1: meant for Lap, well, let Lap go first, and then
Speaker 1: we'll comment after our first question comes from Kelsey. Why
Speaker 1: do the Bengals feel comfortable banking on Frank Pollock turning
Speaker 1: around their offensive line play when that strategy didn't work
Speaker 1: with Jim Turner. Well, you know, the first thing that
Speaker 1: you have to have talent makes a coach great talent.
Speaker 1: If a coach has got players, it's a hell of
Speaker 1: a lot easier to be a great coach. There's no
Speaker 1: question about it. All coaches will tell you the same thing,
Speaker 1: but all all great players, you know, Anthony Munos will
Speaker 1: tell you the reason he was as good as he
Speaker 1: was as Jim mc nelli, you know, and Maxi Montoria
Speaker 1: feels the same way. It's it's almost like, you know,
Speaker 1: it's you have to have both if if if a
Speaker 1: great player doesn't have a coach that can take him
Speaker 1: to another level. Everybody wants to be coached, Everybody wants
Speaker 1: to be helped. Everybody wants to improve, and the great
Speaker 1: ones that are realistic realize they don't have all the answers.
Speaker 1: So you're looking for somebody that's going to take your game,
Speaker 1: whatever it is, to the next level. If you're a
Speaker 1: guy that's just making an NFL team, you want a
Speaker 1: guy that's gonna help you be a contributor on the roster.
Speaker 1: If you're just a contributor on the roster, you want
Speaker 1: a guy who's going to make you a starter. If
Speaker 1: you're a starter, you want a guy that's going to
Speaker 1: make you a pro bowler. I mean, that's just the
Speaker 1: way it is. And I think that Frank Pollock has
Speaker 1: I think he has a reputation of employing sound techniques
Speaker 1: and he's a great teacher of his techniques. And that's
Speaker 1: what Jim McNally was. Jim McNally had techniques he believed in.
Speaker 1: He was always refining them. Jim McNally would would never
Speaker 1: like no nose. This is the answer, this is the
Speaker 1: only answer. And that's why I think what players like
Speaker 1: about Frank Pollack. Having played the game for nine years,
Speaker 1: he understands that everybody types not the same, and a
Speaker 1: technique that works for one guy might not be the
Speaker 1: best technique in the world for another guy. One guy
Speaker 1: might be long upper torso, short legs, another guy long legs,
Speaker 1: short up torso. One guy's get long on, one guy's
Speaker 1: get short on. You have to be able to mollify,
Speaker 1: you know, and adapt your and adjust your techniques. And
Speaker 1: Frank is really good at that, and I think players
Speaker 1: respond to that. And he's there not to be a dictate.
Speaker 1: He's there to help. You know, I'm not saying that
Speaker 1: it's a democracy. You know, he will make all the
Speaker 1: decis as, but he listens and um and and adapts.
Speaker 1: And I think I think a great testament to Frank
Speaker 1: Pollock is the relationship he has with Joe Nixon. That's
Speaker 1: not even one of his players, but Joe Nixon realizes
Speaker 1: the value that Frank Pollock brought to that offensive line
Speaker 1: room and how they responded to him, and how it
Speaker 1: made him his life easier and better as a running
Speaker 1: back and as a football player. And so I think
Speaker 1: that the ripple effect that a good offensive line coach
Speaker 1: can have in terms of confidence and then performance betterment,
Speaker 1: not just by lineman, by by everybody. Quarterback feels more confident,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm going to have time to build the
Speaker 1: football with this guy teaching my lineman. But again, Dan,
Speaker 1: you do have to have something to work with, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean he can't, he can't perform miracles. Got to
Speaker 1: improve the offensive line and and let him be part
Speaker 1: of the valuation process. This guy would be perfect because
Speaker 1: the techniques that I'm trying to employ, he's watching him
Speaker 1: on tape. He's going to be able to execute everything
Speaker 1: that I want to execute from a technique standpoint. All
Speaker 1: that stuff I think becomes important. I've never heard another
Speaker 1: coach or player say a negative word about Frank Pollock,
Speaker 1: whether it's with the Bengals or with another team. And
Speaker 1: there aren't that many coaches that I can say that about.
Speaker 1: There's always a critic out there somewhere just about everybody.
Speaker 1: It seems like anybody you talk to has respect for
Speaker 1: Frank Pollock as a coach and as a person. It's
Speaker 1: a pretty good sign. And you know, Dan, that's a
Speaker 1: great point because like Dick Lebou, for example, every player
Speaker 1: that was in contact with Dick Lebau respects them and
Speaker 1: then likes them to boot. If you have that double combination,
Speaker 1: you have total respect. So you're not going to take
Speaker 1: advantage of them, but you really like them. That's powerful
Speaker 1: and I think you hit right on that right nail.
Speaker 1: Running the head with Frank Pollock. I think the players
Speaker 1: respect and the added cherry on top of the Sunday
Speaker 1: is they like them. Next question, I'm going to combine
Speaker 1: two questions. Hank asks, why is the Bengals organization so
Speaker 1: cavalier about improving the offensive line? Ryan asks, how can
Speaker 1: they not address guard? So combine those two two questions
Speaker 1: into one thought lap Why so cavalier about approving the
Speaker 1: offensive line? Why have they not addressed guard? They haven't
Speaker 1: been cavalier, They just haven't hit. They don't have to
Speaker 1: go back too many drafts to find a way hand
Speaker 1: fish where they went first and second round and tried
Speaker 1: to double down with their top two picks and went
Speaker 1: over You know, that's just that's a tough that's a
Speaker 1: tough dynamic. That's a tough thing to recover from. Not
Speaker 1: just that here, that has an impact on a few
Speaker 1: years when you when you go over two on your
Speaker 1: first two picks of a draft, that it doesn't work
Speaker 1: out at that position and other positions you could have
Speaker 1: addressed with those picks. Go unaddressed. You haven't massive ripple effect.
Speaker 1: So you know, Billy Price, you know, with a high
Speaker 1: it's not like they haven't expended high picks, but they
Speaker 1: haven't gotten the value in return for those high picks.
Speaker 1: And it's not just the Bengals, I mean coaches should say.
Speaker 1: Fans in every single city will cry and moan about,
Speaker 1: you know, failed picks with their offensive line. It's not
Speaker 1: an exact science. And they have tried to address it
Speaker 1: and they will continue to address it, and it's going
Speaker 1: to be addressed big time in this draft. And what
Speaker 1: you have to do is you just have to try
Speaker 1: to recruit by whatever means, free agency, the draft, college fit,
Speaker 1: whatever it is, as many talented players as you can
Speaker 1: and put the best five out in the field, no
Speaker 1: matter what position you end up putting them at. If
Speaker 1: they do draft Penney Seul and they say, all right,
Speaker 1: we're gonna put them at right tackle and Riley Reef
Speaker 1: you're going inside. Well we're gonna put them at left tackle,
Speaker 1: and Jonah you're going in, so be it. If it's
Speaker 1: better to put Penney Suel inside, so be it. The
Speaker 1: guy who's going to decide that is Frank Pollock. But
Speaker 1: put the five best guys. Hopefully you have ten guys
Speaker 1: that you can you know, you're they're all compete in
Speaker 1: their tail on. You find the five best, put him
Speaker 1: at positions that you feel will be most successful for
Speaker 1: their contribution to the team. And then you know, however
Speaker 1: many to keep eight or nine offensive lineman and have
Speaker 1: to deactivate one or two of them, whatever the case
Speaker 1: may be. You have to have position versatility, and that's
Speaker 1: one thing that I think Frank understands them and puts
Speaker 1: in his evaluation process. Have to be able to play
Speaker 1: more than one position. I really do believe that he'll
Speaker 1: help get it right. He'll get players in there to
Speaker 1: compete and put an offensive line out there, and he's
Speaker 1: going to feel proud of it. Are the Bengals Cavalier
Speaker 1: about improving the offensive line? If they draft Suol and
Speaker 1: us Slater in the first round, there'll be fourth first
Speaker 1: round picks in the last seven drafts. That's the opposite
Speaker 1: of Cavalier. And I agree with you, Butch, I think
Speaker 1: Slater I'm not. I'm not one that has Seul and
Speaker 1: then a big drop to Slater. I have Sul and
Speaker 1: Slater you know up there pretty good in fact, if
Speaker 1: I were in a situation where I could trade back
Speaker 1: with that fifth pick and still be able to get
Speaker 1: Slater and get an extra second round pick. Bingo Bengo Bongo,
Speaker 1: I am printing to get that done, because then you
Speaker 1: get then you get Slater, and then you get maybe
Speaker 1: two edge rushers in the second round. If you are
Speaker 1: if you get tackle in an edge rush, you think
Speaker 1: later can definitely play garden tackle, and then you get
Speaker 1: maybe uh yeah, an edge rush. In my mind, there's
Speaker 1: offensive lineman that they could get that could help, particularly
Speaker 1: of guard up until the fourth round. Fourth round. If
Speaker 1: you get an extra second round pick, you have five
Speaker 1: picks in the and they're in the fifth pick of
Speaker 1: the fourth round. So you're five picks to the fifth
Speaker 1: pick of the fourth round. You're still talking about, you know,
Speaker 1: one of the top one hundred and fifty odd players
Speaker 1: in the country. You're still going to be able to
Speaker 1: get good, viable candidates and double down on one or
Speaker 1: two position groups. Our next question comes from Bearcat Joe.
Speaker 1: If Paul Brown were still alive, wouldn't he draft Pinney Sewell?
Speaker 1: Would he? Laugh? I think he'd be in consideration. Under consideration,
Speaker 1: I mean, like I've said a couple of times, I
Speaker 1: know Paul Brown's mentality was, you know, built from the
Speaker 1: inside out, and he knew that he had a lot
Speaker 1: of great Pro Bowl skilled players, but without you know,
Speaker 1: the Mike McCormick's of the world. In his offensive line,
Speaker 1: he Lou Groza, you know, he was he was all
Speaker 1: about Lulu two. Obviously a more famous kicker than but
Speaker 1: he was the Pro Bowl tackle as well, Mike McCormick
Speaker 1: and Lou grow He. He always had superior offensive lines.
Speaker 1: He believed in it. So I do think that he
Speaker 1: would he would definitely consider Seul Slater. I mean, there's
Speaker 1: I'm not sure that he would necessarily be married to one,
Speaker 1: but I know he would put high importance on that position.
Speaker 1: You know. The thing, like I've said with Seuel, I
Speaker 1: like him obviously, it's hard not to like him his
Speaker 1: physical attributes, but it's a very small sample size. And
Speaker 1: you know, when you watch him, like in this opener
Speaker 1: against Oregon, watching that game, a third of his pass
Speaker 1: sets he didn't win, and he didn't have many of them.
Speaker 1: I'm talking about drop back protection and the way their
Speaker 1: offense is struggled. Drop Back protection is hard to identify,
Speaker 1: and it wasn't It wasn't great competition. You know that
Speaker 1: uh that that SEC who's Auburn's you know, middle of
Speaker 1: the SEC. He was struggling. He was struggling to win.
Speaker 1: So he didn't play against ten or twelve dominant edge
Speaker 1: rushes from the SEC that you have all this tape,
Speaker 1: you know, in order to say, oh, yeah he's the guy,
Speaker 1: Maybe not be there. I mean, I'm not saying he
Speaker 1: wouldn't project. I'm saying he does project, but I'm not
Speaker 1: saying that's a slam dunk. It never is with anybody.
Speaker 1: But you know, he's obviously wanted to consider what do
Speaker 1: you think Butcher Paul were still alive, would he takes
Speaker 1: suel It's interesting what Lapps said, you know about you know,
Speaker 1: Paul noticed stuff like that. Obviously clearly he was one
Speaker 1: of the best in the game, you know, and he
Speaker 1: wasn't afraid of going out of the box. Maybe he wouldn't.
Speaker 1: Maybe I remember him the only the only draft I
Speaker 1: covered him in was the nineteen ninety one draft, and
Speaker 1: he was heartbroken when the Seattle took Dan McGuire, who
Speaker 1: was Mark McGuire's brother. He loved the Quay he loved
Speaker 1: the tall quarterback, and that would have been a little
Speaker 1: bit out of the box at that point in the
Speaker 1: first round, So you know, if people were alive, I
Speaker 1: remember him saying at a practice, he goes, I'm a
Speaker 1: firing fallback guy. Peepe might be pulling the trigger on Chase.
Speaker 1: Where are you guys right now? I think our opinions
Speaker 1: all you know, we drift back and forth for which
Speaker 1: guy we would like if they stay at number five.
Speaker 1: Who are you picking right now? He said? You know,
Speaker 1: Lap just scared me with that, So I don't you
Speaker 1: know you gotta go. You gotta protect the guy, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess you go. If you think schools better.
Speaker 1: I think you got to take the tackle. I think
Speaker 1: you got to take the offensive lignement. Yeah, I would.
Speaker 1: I would go for an offensive lineman if there's one
Speaker 1: available there, like we talked about before. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: these mock drafts are exactly that. But you got mock
Speaker 1: drafts to have quarterbacks going with the first four picks.
Speaker 1: So you know, if that's the case, you're gonna be
Speaker 1: able to pick the best non quarterback football player in
Speaker 1: the entire draft. That's a good place to be if
Speaker 1: they don't take all those quarterbacks the first four picks
Speaker 1: ahead of the Bengals at number five. Now, you're gonna
Speaker 1: have teams wanting to move up if they are indeed
Speaker 1: interested in a quarterback and their guys still there, and
Speaker 1: you'll be able to trade back. That's my first option,
Speaker 1: or my first hope, is that those quarterbacks don't all
Speaker 1: go in the first four picks. I don't know, maybe
Speaker 1: somebody would panic and say, oh, we'll take the fifth one.
Speaker 1: Whoever the fifth one is. There are five of them
Speaker 1: that they're projecting go in the first round. They're not
Speaker 1: all going to go the first five picks, but you
Speaker 1: never know. I mean, I think they're going to be
Speaker 1: in a good position. The draft starts at pick two, obviously,
Speaker 1: I think they're going to be in a good position
Speaker 1: at five to potentially trade back. And just like in
Speaker 1: these free agency contracts, you know, the Bengals they were
Speaker 1: out pursuing players, but it takes two to make a deal.
Speaker 1: If the player doesn't want to sign, it doesn't matter
Speaker 1: if you're out there trying to sign them. If they
Speaker 1: don't want to sign them, you know, it's a two
Speaker 1: street Galladay in my mind, Joe Burrow was an attraction.
Speaker 1: These receivers that want to sign one year contracts and
Speaker 1: then go to free agency next year. Why wouldn't you
Speaker 1: want to be with Joe Burrow if your receiver that
Speaker 1: you know wants to have a big year and a
Speaker 1: one year deal. So you know, I don't know this,
Speaker 1: It's going to be an interesting time this draft. But
Speaker 1: if they could trade back, I think they might might
Speaker 1: find a partner to trade back. In the end, that
Speaker 1: would be a Christmas morning for me. Get two firm,
Speaker 1: get two players. If Sewell is there, I take Sewell.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to overthink it. I think he's got
Speaker 1: the chance to be a multi time pro bowler who's
Speaker 1: going to spend you know, a decade at either left
Speaker 1: or right tackle. If he's gone and Jamar Chase is there,
Speaker 1: I'm fine with taking Jamar Chase and reuniting him with
Speaker 1: Joe Burrow. If they're both gone, I'm still not there.
Speaker 1: And taking Kyle Pitts at number five is as great
Speaker 1: as he seems like he could be, and you know,
Speaker 1: the grand the unbelief about forty time. At that point,
Speaker 1: I would really look to trade down. That's where I am.
Speaker 1: Suel is still my hope Chase is right there with him.
Speaker 1: After that, I'd be fine with trading down. I'm with you,
Speaker 1: I would not have if they take Tonay Seul at five,
Speaker 1: and you know, you wonder if I mean you're hearing,
Speaker 1: then he might not be there. But if he is
Speaker 1: there at five, he deserves it. I mean he's I
Speaker 1: don't think that's over ranking him in this year's draft. Chase.
Speaker 1: You watch that guy run routes. He throws people around.
Speaker 1: I mean he is a physical route runner. And of
Speaker 1: course you know Joe Burrow throwing twenty touchdown passes in
Speaker 1: the great year. So how can you argue that? Laugh.
Speaker 1: I think left to make a big decision, they'll have
Speaker 1: to say, is our Suel and Chase that much better then?
Speaker 1: Because I think they'll have multiple suitors. I don't think
Speaker 1: he'll be I think they'll have multiple suitors. I think
Speaker 1: they'll be able to take the deal. With that deal,
Speaker 1: you know, be better than taking Suel or Chase. You know,
Speaker 1: I think they have to, you know, because like you
Speaker 1: said about those those two high second round picks, those
Speaker 1: are going to be what one of the top fifty
Speaker 1: players in the country. What are they? What are they
Speaker 1: do in free agency. Instead of taking one guy, they
Speaker 1: tried to get many guys they possibly could. I think
Speaker 1: they're in that kind of that that mode. You know,
Speaker 1: it might spill over into the draft. Instead of just
Speaker 1: one guy. If you have a chance to get a
Speaker 1: guy that you have rated very closely to that one
Speaker 1: guy and get another pick, you know, they may go
Speaker 1: that rug. You know, they got two corners for the
Speaker 1: price of Will Jackson, maybe they can get a couple
Speaker 1: of rookie linemen for the price of one. Or who knows?
Speaker 1: Who knows? All right, a few more ask Lap questions.
Speaker 1: This one comes from Dustin. Did the Bengals attack defense
Speaker 1: and free agency or is that just how things worked out?
Speaker 1: I think it's just how it worked out, you know.
Speaker 1: I think I think that they were they were in there.
Speaker 1: They wanted to sign and Tuning just like everybody. But
Speaker 1: it got ridiculous. They weren't going to sign them. They
Speaker 1: wanted to sign Golladay. You know, there there were offensive
Speaker 1: players that they were in the hunt for. I'm sure,
Speaker 1: but you know, when the numbers got to the point
Speaker 1: where all right, let's pivot and see what we can
Speaker 1: get a bigger bang for the buck. Ass such and
Speaker 1: how many players that we might be able to get,
Speaker 1: and I think it just so happened to be defensive players.
Speaker 1: I don't think when they went through their free agency
Speaker 1: evaluation was like, jeez, there were no offensive players and
Speaker 1: there are a ton of defensive players, and the draft
Speaker 1: is all offense and no defense. I don't think it
Speaker 1: was that clear cut and simple. I think they just
Speaker 1: ended up pivoting to the you know, to the next
Speaker 1: the next plan, and it fell in the defensive players laps.
Speaker 1: I think I'm not saying coincidental, but I'm saying that
Speaker 1: it just that's just the way the chips fell. I
Speaker 1: think laps deet on. I think it was a deeper
Speaker 1: It was a deeper free agency. The free agency board
Speaker 1: was deeper on defense, I think for the spots that
Speaker 1: they needed compared to offense. You know, the guy the
Speaker 1: guard thing I think just kind of fell off the
Speaker 1: cliff after Pooney when you're talking about the money, and
Speaker 1: I just felt like they thought they were better fits
Speaker 1: at corner, like you said, the two for one, and
Speaker 1: they knew they had to get at the minute the
Speaker 1: Thuney thing went ridiculous. They knew they had to get
Speaker 1: an edge rusher because that because because I think they
Speaker 1: went in thinking, you know, we might be able to
Speaker 1: get two edge rushers at ten millarpiece, but that you know,
Speaker 1: because of the way, because of the reduced cap. But
Speaker 1: then the way the thing you know, obviously in the
Speaker 1: first hours of free agency are clearly that that was
Speaker 1: not going to happen. Again, like Lap said, the pivot
Speaker 1: pooney was ridiculous. Get the make sure you get the
Speaker 1: edge game. I think the other thing that happened too
Speaker 1: was that offensive linemen that they were interested in either
Speaker 1: resigned with their original team or got tagged, like Taylor
Speaker 1: Moten from Carolina. You know, that was a name that
Speaker 1: came up over and over and over and over, and
Speaker 1: then Panthers stagged so much for that. Darryl Williams name
Speaker 1: came and came up a lot, Buffalo resigned him. So
Speaker 1: some of those free agents that they probably spent a
Speaker 1: lot of time studying and determining what they were going
Speaker 1: to offer and what their value would be, never came
Speaker 1: to fruition because they ultimately were not free agents, and
Speaker 1: at that point you pivot to the guys that are,
Speaker 1: and that's why the numbers went up so extremely high.
Speaker 1: For the ones that did make free agency, the pool
Speaker 1: was smaller. It's a supply and demand thing. You had
Speaker 1: a smaller pool, fewer teams, the fewer teams wanted to
Speaker 1: make make a you know that that had the one need.
Speaker 1: I mean, Kansas City said we need we need an
Speaker 1: interior linehelp. That's what they went after, and they spent
Speaker 1: a ton to get it. Redskins, you know, targeted dear
Speaker 1: guy Trent Willas. That was their only what they went
Speaker 1: and got it done. So that's why free agency in
Speaker 1: the early stages, if you have a great lineman, normally
Speaker 1: they don't make free agency. See but when when they did,
Speaker 1: I think I think some teams were probably surprised that
Speaker 1: the number got so high. I bet San Francisco Chiefs,
Speaker 1: we didn't expect to pay that much for Trent Williams.
Speaker 1: I bet Kennethy, I bet we didn't expect that much
Speaker 1: to pay for a guard. But you know, those guys
Speaker 1: were commodities that that that a team that needed that
Speaker 1: specific thing was going to pay whatever it took to
Speaker 1: get and others had to move on and pivot. All right,
Speaker 1: Our next question is actually a celebrity question. This comes
Speaker 1: from former Saturday Night Live cast member and Lakota East
Speaker 1: High School grad Luke Null, a big Bengals fan. Luke's
Speaker 1: question is who do you anticipate seeing the biggest improvement
Speaker 1: out of from the returning players on defense? What do
Speaker 1: you think of that? Let My first reaction is, I
Speaker 1: can't wait to see the guy they spent so much
Speaker 1: money on it didn't get a snap out of it,
Speaker 1: Trey Waynes. You know, I think he's going to be
Speaker 1: a big contribute to their success. Um, and we're talking
Speaker 1: about free agents that, uh or anybody that played defense
Speaker 1: last year you're saying to improve to this year? Is
Speaker 1: that the question? I think so returning players on defense.
Speaker 1: So I guess it could be a guy like Trey
Speaker 1: Waynes who was returning that didn't play. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, I can't wait to see, you know, his
Speaker 1: his contribution, DJ reader, I think was was playing well
Speaker 1: and uh, you only got a couple of snaps in before,
Speaker 1: you know, having that that severe knee injury. So you know,
Speaker 1: I think I think him and and that that's that's
Speaker 1: brings you know, to the to the other point. It's, uh,
Speaker 1: it's it's almost like you've got two free agency classes
Speaker 1: instead of just one with with guys like Trey Waynes
Speaker 1: and DJ Reader being added to the guys that they've
Speaker 1: signed on defense. Uh, you know in this offseason with
Speaker 1: Mike Hilton's and uh hit Cheeto and uh you know
Speaker 1: you had Trey Waynes to that, and it's uh, it
Speaker 1: really is, it really is pretty pretty incredible. Ricardo Allen
Speaker 1: um Eli Apple. I mean, they they've remade their secondary
Speaker 1: DJ Reader, Trey Hendrickson, Clarry Ogan, Joebie. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: it's it's remarkable what they've done in terms of free
Speaker 1: agency the last two years. The defense is totally redone, reshuffled,
Speaker 1: and I think it's going to be interesting who steps up,
Speaker 1: who steps up and performs at the levels that they
Speaker 1: were evaluated at and the team's projecting them to play it.
Speaker 1: I'm a Logan Wilson guy. I think Logan Wilson is
Speaker 1: going to be I expect him to come up big.
Speaker 1: They obviously have a lot of confidence in him because
Speaker 1: they seem to suggest that he will be starting a
Speaker 1: rat and I think that they're very high on when
Speaker 1: they draft. You know, they were cyber Leaf when they
Speaker 1: did get him at the top of the third round,
Speaker 1: and I think they feel like his football instincts, his
Speaker 1: quickness and his athleticism is something they really haven't had
Speaker 1: a bet spot. They've tried there too down through the years,
Speaker 1: but I expect him to take a big guy. He'll
Speaker 1: be starting getting a lot of snaps that year wanted
Speaker 1: two jump I think will be huge for Roldan Wilson.
Speaker 1: And on that note, we will wrap up this logger
Speaker 1: than anticipated but hopefully very entertaining version of the Bengals
Speaker 1: Booth Podcast. Gentlemen, I really appreciate your time. Thank you,
Speaker 1: Thanks forty. Always great to be with you. Guys, appreciate it. Dan,
Speaker 1: good to see you. Butch same here and laugh. Thank you.
Speaker 1: That's going to do it for this week's episode of
Speaker 1: the Bengals Booth Podcast, brought to you by bud Light Seltzer.
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Speaker 1: I'm Dan Horde and thank you for listening to The
Speaker 1: Bengals Booth Podcast.