WEBVTT - QLS Classic: Sam Pollard 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:09.240 Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. Ladies and gentlemen, 0:00:09.280 --> 0:00:13.920 Welcome to another episode of Quest Love Supreme. I mean 0:00:13.920 --> 0:00:18.200 it's Quest Love and we have teams Supreme with us. Yea, hello, 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:19.000 how are you to day? 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:22.960 I am doing well, sir? How are you great? 0:00:23.200 --> 0:00:24.239 Is that a new microphone? 0:00:25.360 --> 0:00:25.560 Man? 0:00:25.640 --> 0:00:27.560 It's like every day every time we do the show, 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:28.480 you you look at me more. 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:29.240 Not something new. 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:30.600 It's not new though. 0:00:30.640 --> 0:00:32.960 It's like we're meeting for the first time exactly. 0:00:33.040 --> 0:00:33.559 Just looked at me. 0:00:34.120 --> 0:00:36.080 It's like we know each other since we were thirteen. 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:42.000 I'll start a sugar Steve. 0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:44.800 How you doing, man, I'm doing great. Nice to see 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:46.160 you and me are nice to see your team. 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:52.360 That sounds like a deflection. How you really? We're all 0:00:52.400 --> 0:00:54.840 of it all right. Now we're gonna rename. 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:55.120 You see. 0:00:57.200 --> 0:00:58.640 Sugar Sugars, Double Sugars. 0:01:00.480 --> 0:01:04.520 Can we start calling you cannot do this on my watch, man, 0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:08.240 I'm not because I'm gonna. 0:01:09.040 --> 0:01:11.600 Thank you for your concern. I'm going cold Turkey on 0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:13.480 rock Cookie del I'm gonna be fine. 0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:15.840 You are too old to be eating that. That's crazy. 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:17.440 I'm done with all that. 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:20.000 I'm done with it all right, Steve I'm now. 0:01:21.680 --> 0:01:27.360 Implement some sugarless snacks in your day. To me, it'll 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:31.320 it'll work for you. Bill. How's life. 0:01:31.959 --> 0:01:32.640 Everything's good. 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:36.119 I can't play I'm cool and anything. Fine. 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:39.280 Yeah, man, everything's cool over here. We're just chilling. Everybody's uh. 0:01:39.560 --> 0:01:41.200 We staying staying low, staying healthy. 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:44.560 Were good. That's good? All right? Well, ladies and gentlemen, 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:48.680 I will say, probably during the pandemic, not only for me, well, 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:51.480 I will probably speak for the team. We probably watched 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:57.400 or revisited more content from film and TV in the 0:01:57.440 --> 0:02:00.920 pandemic than we normally have. And and I will personally 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:04.240 say that I have a new appreciation for the teams 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:07.480 that make film. It's not just about the director just 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:10.280 about a particular actor or actress that you like. You 0:02:10.639 --> 0:02:13.480 have to consider the producer of the cinematographer, the lighting director, 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:17.239 and most importantly, the editing of the film. And so 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:20.919 I will say that, as far as our guest is concerned, 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:26.240 started out his assent into the professional career of filmmaking 0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:30.520 as an editor. First of all, in the groundbreaking what 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:34.400 I call one of the first hip hop films, Style Wars, 0:02:35.480 --> 0:02:38.720 not to mention as an editor for some of my 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:44.239 favorite Spike Lee films like Mobetta, Blues, Junkle Fever, Juice, Clockers, 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:50.880 Girls Six, his documentaries for Little Girls, both of the 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:56.400 what I would call the New Orleans documentaries for the Levies, 0:02:56.560 --> 0:02:59.560 not to mention also, I didn't realize Hooker's on the Point. 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:03.360 I didn't realize that Wow, you. 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:06.359 On the stroll holes on a roll. 0:03:06.639 --> 0:03:13.920 Yes, I see, but the name remains the same. 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:21.680 Candy She So, oh my god, you like memorize this film, dude, 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:24.840 And you don't understand, bro, Me and my homies used to. 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:27.080 Watch because this is like I'm in like high school, right, 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:29.440 So me and my homies watch Hookers at the Point, 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:31.880 and then you come to school the next day and 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:35.160 know all that we'll be saying all the lines and classes. 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:36.560 I would like to. 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:39.200 Say that Hookers at the Point transcends all things. 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:43.960 I also because both of my. 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:46.080 Friends about Hooking the Point, like in a different way, 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:47.440 but I definitely watch them. 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:59.120 This makes an official that Bill and are the same person. God, dude, O, guys, guys, guys, 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:06.560 hang on Inton is powerful. Shirley Chisholm and his forays 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:11.360 into uh directing documentaries, not to eyes on the Prize, 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:17.080 which I especially in light of uh Black Messiah and Jesus, 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:20.080 Uh Jesus in the Black Messiah movie, him directing the 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:23.240 Eyes on the Prize film too. I'm sorry, Eyes on 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:28.040 the Prize too, of which uh the footage of that 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:32.039 film was used in in in uh in that particular film. 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:37.520 But there's also uh the Mister Soul documentary and his 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:41.920 his latest uh M l k FBI, which weighs heavily 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:47.240 into explores the what we can say, the harassment uh 0:04:47.279 --> 0:04:51.839 in the monitoring of the jack Er Hoover led Bureau 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:55.840 into the life and uh kind of the affairs of 0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:59.320 Martin Luther King Jr. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to 0:04:59.400 --> 0:05:05.480 Quest Lifts, Sam Pollard, thank you. Okay, now back to 0:05:05.520 --> 0:05:06.320 hookers on the point. 0:05:06.600 --> 0:05:08.240 My god, what happened to. 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:13.279 Introver for you, sir, I'm sure terrible. 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:15.719 You've been out there fucking I even fucking. 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:19.400 Whole. 0:05:19.640 --> 0:05:25.479 I don't memorizing, man, Bren, this is man. 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:26.960 I got a stage reading. 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:30.440 Wow. Man, she had to tone everything down. 0:05:33.600 --> 0:05:34.360 Made an impact. 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:37.479 So how's it going right now? How are you doing? 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:40.159 I'm good, man, I'm pretty good. You know. I'm working 0:05:40.200 --> 0:05:44.480 on a new film about Arthur ash Wow. Yeah, hoping 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:47.120 to kind of set by June and you know, developing 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:47.920 some other stuff. 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:50.960 Yeah, I'll let our I'll let our listeners know that 0:05:51.800 --> 0:05:57.040 you and I are actually partnering up for hopefully, uh, 0:05:57.440 --> 0:06:01.040 you know, in the near future, will have the definitive 0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:06.000 film about the Negro League. You know, I've been pounding 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:11.880 the pavement together, pitching to various companies and whatnot, So 0:06:11.960 --> 0:06:17.800 that's very exciting for me. Yeah, I'll ask. As I 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:21.800 said at the top, I didn't realize how important or 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:27.400 how instrumental editors are to a film. You know, a 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:29.880 lot of the times, like people that aren't you know, 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:32.599 film buffs or whatnot, they just tend to think that 0:06:32.640 --> 0:06:37.279 the director has complete control of everything, the screenwriting, everything, 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:40.640 but you know, almost feel as though the editor has 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:44.320 the hardest job of setting the tone. So I'll ask you, 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:47.200 first of all, as an editor, the general rule that 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:50.320 I've been taught is that once a film is done, 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:55.760 you're basically to hand your entire footage to your editor 0:06:56.000 --> 0:07:00.279 and kind of sight unseen, just let them do their 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:04.599 thing and not micromanaged. Is that necessarily true or like, 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:07.320 what is the true job of an editor? 0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:09.800 Well, I would I would say this, I would say 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:13.000 in the fiction world, you know, when you when you're 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:16.640 doing editing a fiction film, you're given a script and 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:19.400 you know, and everything that they shoot in that script, 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:22.440 you basically know exactly how to put together. Now, it 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:26.120 can change when you're sitting down editing sequences together, but 0:07:26.280 --> 0:07:29.440 usually most directors leave you alone with a fiction film 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:31.160 that's sort of put together what we call the first 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:34.160 rough cut, you know, and then they come in and 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:37.520 they give reactions to everything you've cut outs for changes 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:40.800 and stuff, so that becomes a director's cut, you know. 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:43.000 So that's how it works in fiction film and in 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:47.120 the documentary world. The thing that one of the reasons 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:50.480 I became such a lover of documentaries is because, as 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:54.840 an editor, specifically, what you're speaking to a mirror. Many times, 0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:57.880 when I was beginning to edit a documentary, the director 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:00.280 would come in with lots of footage and say, I 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:02.680 have this great idea to tell this story about hip 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:06.280 hop and break dancing and rap music, and I'm not 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:08.840 quite sure the order, but here's the footage, and then 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:11.000 they walk away and they give you, you know, give 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:13.840 me four or five, six months, seven months sometimes to 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:17.120 create the sequences, you know, and you're basically trying to 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:20.160 in some ways as the editor, read the director's mind 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:21.840 to get a sense of what the director is looking 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:25.040 for as you're shaping the sequences. Now, sometimes in the 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:28.280 documentary's the director comes in or he calls in and 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:30.600 he wants to see sequences to see where you're going 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:33.240 before you put the whole thing together, and you show 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:35.760 it to him or her and they react to it 0:08:36.160 --> 0:08:39.560 and you make changes. But really in the furms of 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:43.000 the documentary, it's really the editors medium. The editor becomes 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:45.800 with the documentary much more so than with the features. 0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:49.240 They become sort of the surrogate directors because they're shaping 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:52.720 the story arc, they're shaping the tone, the emotional tone. 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:55.480 They're shaping me sort of the up and downs of 0:08:55.520 --> 0:08:58.880 the film as it unfolds. So, you know, as a 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:01.200 young editor, that's why I mean, I was I was 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:03.880 pretty shy back then, so the idea of being a 0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:07.480 director didn't then entice me. It was the idea that 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:11.040 I had all this footage. And you know the big 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:14.160 thing about editing documentaries is that you can hit a 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:16.800 home run. You can hear, you can hear, you can 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:19.240 hit a ball that just pop out, and you could 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:23.280 completely fail. And uh, you know that's the responsibility as 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:25.880 a documentary that you have to take on, understanding that 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:28.600 sometimes a director to walk in and say that you 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:31.480 have to see your first cut. Ah, Sam, this is 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:34.000 exactly what I was thinking about. This is my vision 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:36.560 of the film. You found my vision. Or they can 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:38.640 walk in into the editing room and they'll say I 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:40.760 have to look at your cut. They'll say, oh, Sam, 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:44.280 that's terrible. You didn't understand anything I was trying to 0:09:44.280 --> 0:09:45.960 do with this footage. We're gonna have to start all 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:50.720 over again. I've been on both sides of the of 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:54.960 the of those polls. You know, when I was young, 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:57.120 I would be like, oh my god, I'm terrible. Nobody 0:09:57.200 --> 0:10:00.480 loves me. It doesn't work. As i've gotten older, that's 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:03.000 part of the process. You realize that's part of the process. 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:05.280 You're never going to make it right the first time. 0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:08.200 That's why it's called re editing and re editing. I 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:11.840 mean you listed the films like that edited for Spike, 0:10:12.120 --> 0:10:15.000 and even on the feature films, I never made a 0:10:15.040 --> 0:10:19.240 cut that Spike completely said, oh it's one hundred percent work. Well, Sam, no, chick. 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:21.880 It just doesn't work that way. There's always going to 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:22.360 be changes. 0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:24.880 Has there ever been a time where in your editing 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:27.480 career where you know, like you said, director comes to 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:29.040 you and says, hey, I want to tell this story 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:31.560 about breakdancing and hip hop or whatever, and so they 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:34.080 give you all this footage. But then during your editing 0:10:34.520 --> 0:10:37.200 you kind of start putting together and you see, I 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:39.240 know this is what he thinks this is about, but 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:41.560 I think there's a bigger story that can be told 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:44.520 that maybe he's missing or maybe now when I have 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:47.319 all these pieces together, he may think that it's about, 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:49.960 you know, just hip hop and breakdancing, but there is 0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:53.640 probably a deeper narrative that is starting to evolve as 0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:55.559 I put this together. Has that ever happened? 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:58.080 How much leeway are you giving all the time? 0:10:58.160 --> 0:11:02.200 That happens all the time an editor, As a creative editor, 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:04.000 you have to be open to the idea of seeing 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:07.160 the story in a different way and taking on that responsibility. 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:10.080 I'm gonna say, you say to yourself, should I show 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:12.200 it to the director this way? Because I think it's worked? 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:14.320 So should I say, Well, I'm not sure it works, 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:16.199 let me show it to the way he asked me 0:11:16.240 --> 0:11:19.000 to do it. I have the I always had the 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:20.640 tendency to show it to him the way I thought 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:23.840 it would work better, you know, and that you know, 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:26.920 that's part of the gamble. Sometimes you show it to 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:29.600 him and they say yeah. Sometimes you shoot them they 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:33.560 say no, that's how it works. 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:36.800 I just wanted for MLK FBI. Was it the decision 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:40.760 to not show the commentator the folks who were commentating's face. 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:43.320 Was that a SAM decision or was that just like 0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:45.600 something that y'all had to established because I was noticing 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:46.840 and that was like a big different in a lot 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:49.360 of the documentaries that I see these days. 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:51.520 In that case, that was a SAM decision. Before we 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:55.800 even shot, I had said to the producer Ben Henden 0:11:56.400 --> 0:11:59.000 that I didn't want anybody on camera. I wanted to 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:01.560 all be voiceover because I had seen a film that 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:04.800 Amyl was involved in the music for a black power mixtape, 0:12:05.679 --> 0:12:07.640 you know, and I and they had no voice They 0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:10.040 had nobody on camera in that film. I remembered that. 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:12.400 So when I got to do this one, I said, 0:12:12.679 --> 0:12:14.480 we don't show anybody on camera. We're going to do 0:12:14.480 --> 0:12:16.680 it all voiceover. And you know, that was a gamble, 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:17.839 but I was willing to take it. 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:19.040 You know, what was it? 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:22.760 What was the artistic kind of choice? What drove that decision? 0:12:23.920 --> 0:12:28.000 You know? I felt I felt that in this particular film, 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:32.079 I wanted people who were either close confidence or doctor King, 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:36.559 or whose stories could talk about the mythology, the built 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:40.440 and growing mythology, the FBI, and I just felt like 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:42.960 I wanted people to not see people on camera. I 0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:44.880 just wanted them to be immersed in the footage and 0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:45.720 hear the voiceover. 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:46.319 That's what they do. 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:50.440 What happens when you put camera people on camera sometimes 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:53.960 it can it can break the emotional momentum of the footage, 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:56.839 you know. So I felt like, no, keep them, keep 0:12:56.880 --> 0:13:00.000 them off camera, keep the footage, keep the archival footage 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:02.240 front and centers of people will engage. Now, as you 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:06.000 saw in the epilogue, we did show their faces when 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:07.960 they sort of wrapped up about what they thought about 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:10.840 the tape being released in twenty twenty seven. Now, I 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:14.200 would say that wasn't my idea. I thought the epilogue 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:16.439 is should be all voice over too. But the editor, 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:19.160 this was Laura Thomas Selley, she had the idea we 0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:20.800 should put them on camera, So when I saw the 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:23.520 cut and she put them on camera, I said, Wow, 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:25.920 I wish I could take credit for this, but. 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:29.040 Yeah, because it was a payoff. 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:34.040 It was like a break payoff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I 0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:37.120 fell down my own rabbit hole and just happened to 0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:42.200 click on Black Power Mixtape. So apparently I won a 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:47.360 Swedish Oscar didn't know that she did know they had. 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:55.120 Apparently I won a gold Goold Bandage Award. Yeah, I 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:57.600 would have to. Yeah, this is the second time I 0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:00.959 found out I won something and wasn't told. Uh. Oh, 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:04.360 this very web this very podcast won a Webby and 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:09.200 we weren't told. So there's there's a history of that people. Yeah, 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:12.360 West Supreme, we win in awards and you don't even know. 0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:16.439 Trying to keep us down the man you know about. 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:20.840 That fan keep it us on, Sam. What what brought 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:25.160 you to the film world or a passion? I'll say 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:30.120 that mostly like from my point of view and my observation, 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:35.680 people easily jump into music, people easily jump into sports, 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:42.240 but I rarely hear of people successfully having a passion 0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:45.400 for film and jumping into that world and like making 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:50.040 a living and having a fruitful career in it. So 0:14:50.080 --> 0:14:51.200 what started yours. 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:53.600 Well here, I was a young man who grew up 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:56.920 in East Tarlow. I was going to Blue College with 0:14:57.080 --> 0:14:59.920 the majoring in marketing. I was in my junior year 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:02.920 and one day I looked around and I saw myself 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:07.040 being miserable taking all these marketing andstic statistics courses. And 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:10.160 I said, Jesus, I got to find some after school 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:12.680 activity to do. I just I can't handle this. So 0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:16.680 I walked across the street to the counselor's office. I 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:20.160 saw my counselor's wonderful African American lady, and I said, 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:23.600 I was looking for an after school in turn internship. 0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:26.120 And she said, well, what are your interests? And I said, 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:28.400 one of the things I really loved growing up in 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:31.400 my teens, I loved watching all these old Hollywood movies, 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:34.520 you know. I watched all those Warner Brothers and MGM 0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:39.080 and Columbia pictures and RKO movies, Arko Studio movies, and 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:43.840 I love them. So she said. There was a PBS 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:47.840 station in New York City WNAT in nineteen sixty eight. 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:52.720 After Doctor King's assassination. This felt it was important to 0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:57.040 get more people of color behind the scenes shooting editing, 0:15:57.240 --> 0:16:00.520 taking sound producing, and she said that they had a 0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:04.200 one year workshop every year from sixty eight this was 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:08.200 nineteen seventy one, and they had on Tuesday nights they 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:11.520 would have these classes from six to ten where professionals, 0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:17.440 professional editor is, professional cinematographers, professional sound people, professionals producers 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:20.400 would come in and teach you about the process of 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:23.720 making television and films. And then on the weekends you 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:26.160 would go out with your crew group of people. There 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:28.760 was like fifteen of us. They would pair us off. 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:32.080 We'd go out and shoot little films. Then we'd go 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:34.680 into come back to an editing space, and we'd learned 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:37.560 how to edit these films together. So when she first 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:40.720 proposed that to me, I said, my response to her 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:43.040 was I like watching movies, but I don't really care 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:46.240 about how to make them. I don't care. But she 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:48.520 was very persuasive. She got me to have an interview 0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:52.680 and I got accepted to this program. And I did 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:54.200 that for one year. And the thing that I got 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:57.400 attracted to wasn't the shooting, wasn't the producing, wasn't the 0:16:57.440 --> 0:17:00.800 sound mixing. It was the editing. Because I could be 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:04.119 in a dark room, I could by yourself. Nobody could 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:06.639 see me make mistakes. If I made a mistake, I 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:09.440 could undo the foodge and splice it back together because 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:11.960 we were cutting on film. And at the end of 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:14.439 that workshop, I said I was interested in trying. They 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:17.200 said they'd try to find you a job, and I said, 0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:19.680 I was interested in finding a job in editing. And 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:23.040 one day I was working the summer of seventy two, 0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:25.600 I was working at a marketing firm on thirty third 0:17:25.680 --> 0:17:29.280 in Park Avenue, and my mother called me and said 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:33.000 that this production manager called and said they were looking 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:36.480 to interview me to be an apprentice editor on a 0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:40.160 low budget feature film called Ganjia and Heads, directed by 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:44.520 Bill Gunn. Bill Yeah, Bill Gunn, And most of the 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:47.960 crew was African American, but the editor was this Jewish guy. 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:51.439 His sister was this young white girl from Kentucky. So 0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:53.560 I went and had an interview with this editor and 0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:56.560 I got hired in nineteen seventy two. It's my first 0:17:56.920 --> 0:17:57.520 first job. 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:00.560 And then Spike, he remade, that is the sweet blood 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:01.360 of Jesus. 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:06.280 He did it, the sweet blood of Jesus. Yeah, yeah, okay. 0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:11.000 Well you mentioned w ne Et earlier, did you were 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:12.240 you interning there or. 0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:16.080 Just they had the workshop there. The workshop was part 0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:16.560 of NAT. 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:22.280 So did you have any interaction with like the well 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:26.680 you directed Mister Soul, but the original Soul show, Like. 0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:28.679 Did you work at all? No, it didn't work on 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:30.600 it all. It was it was you know, it had 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:34.239 been canceled. By the time I got into that program, 0:18:34.720 --> 0:18:37.000 it was sixty nine to seventy two, So by the 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:38.680 time I left the program, he had been canceled. I 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:42.200 used to watch it all the time. Yeah, what about. 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:44.439 Well, they had like a lot of black productions. I 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:47.240 remember you remember a show called Rebop or. 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:50.080 That was rethought. Was not in New York, it was 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:53.359 in Massachusetts, Oh okay, But in New York they had 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:56.600 Black Journal, they had Miss had Soul, they had like 0:18:56.640 --> 0:19:00.840 it is Gil Noble on ABC. Bill was to produce 0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:03.919 On Soul and some of the first African producers who 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:08.480 worked for Black journals, like Tony Batton and Saint Clair Bourne. 0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:11.040 You know who I used to have who I who 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:13.080 became one of my mentors later in my career. 0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:17.360 That's what I wanted to know, Like, who were your well, 0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:19.639 it's contemporaries at least starting out with you at the 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:24.120 same time, like I know that Uh uh what's his name? 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:28.960 Uh director Dickerson? No, Uh, what's her name's father? 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:29.240 Uh? 0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:31.600 God, that's uh. 0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:34.800 What's your names? Father? 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:39.840 Stand was already director and soul in Black Journal. By 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:43.040 the time I got to the business, Sam, Sam was okay. 0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:45.680 But what I wanted to know was like, was there 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:50.479 uh like a crew of view as young black up 0:19:50.520 --> 0:19:52.600 starts trying to get into film or was it just 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:55.920 all of you independently treading in? 0:19:56.520 --> 0:19:58.679 The program I was in was like fifteen that us. 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:01.639 We're all African American, and some of us, you know, 0:20:01.800 --> 0:20:04.159 got into the business. Some people went to CBS, some 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:06.840 people with the ABC, some people freelance like I did. 0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:09.919 That was the crew I was with, you know. And 0:20:09.960 --> 0:20:13.920 then after I did the six months as an apprentice 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:17.200 editor on God and Hess, that same editor who hired 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:19.879 me then made me his assistant and I was his 0:20:19.960 --> 0:20:23.520 assistant for three years from twenty two twenty three, twenty 0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:27.160 four to twenty five years old. George Bowers No, No, 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:32.640 I met George right around seventy five. Had I sort 0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:34.359 of was looking for a job and I went to 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:36.760 this editing room and George Bowers was editing a film 0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:41.280 called Campdown on Cassini directed by Assy Davis with Ruby 0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:46.320 d and Greg Morris from Mission Impossible. George turned me 0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:49.720 on to doing a little film, had me he hired. 0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:51.800 He got me hired to do a little film about 0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:54.959 the first three black mayors of major cities, Tom Bradley 0:20:55.000 --> 0:21:00.359 of Los Angeles, Coleman, Coleman Young of the Detroit Accident 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:04.120 of Atlanta. And it was being directed by David Parks, 0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:05.520 Gordon Parks's son. 0:21:05.600 --> 0:21:07.040 Wow, oh wow, okay. 0:21:07.560 --> 0:21:09.320 And I edited it that when I was like twenty 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:13.280 six years old. And then George hired me to edit 0:21:13.320 --> 0:21:16.040 some films for him, and then he moved out to 0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:18.879 California to direct some low budget features. That in nineteen 0:21:18.920 --> 0:21:21.040 eighty I went out to la and directed and edited 0:21:21.040 --> 0:21:23.359 it for him a film. I don't know if you 0:21:23.359 --> 0:21:26.200 remember this film, Body and Soul with Leon Isaac Kennedy. 0:21:26.880 --> 0:21:29.080 And yes, yeah, I know. 0:21:31.480 --> 0:21:33.920 I edited that film in nineteen eighty. 0:21:34.080 --> 0:21:38.320 Yeah, I know this. I know of this film. Yeah, 0:21:38.400 --> 0:21:42.439 I was at the time in the seventies. Did you like, 0:21:42.480 --> 0:21:45.920 what was your kind of your what in your mind 0:21:45.960 --> 0:21:50.119 would have been your endgame or your your your goal 0:21:50.280 --> 0:21:53.520