WEBVTT - Mike's Return 0:00:01.840 --> 0:00:13.360 Wind down and Michael and podcast spoiler alert. Oh, welcome 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:17.520 back to the show. My Mom January is over. I 0:00:17.560 --> 0:00:20.239 gotta ask you a question. Did you listen to any 0:00:20.280 --> 0:00:24.560 of the Mom January? I haven't yet have that. No, 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:29.720 I'm going to I think it was I missed it. Yeah, 0:00:29.760 --> 0:00:34.800 so it was it was hard. It's like it was 0:00:34.880 --> 0:00:37.519 kind of like when you know, I first got out 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:41.080 of football. I couldn't watch football that first season because 0:00:41.080 --> 0:00:43.879 I wasn't a part of the team anymore. So it 0:00:43.960 --> 0:00:47.160 was like, uh, I'm not ready to listen yet. You're 0:00:47.159 --> 0:00:49.839 always a part of the team. Yeah, but I was 0:00:49.880 --> 0:00:55.040 kind of exile. You were not exibbed, although we were 0:00:55.280 --> 0:01:00.560 side commenting being like, you know, someone saved Mike. Where's 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:04.840 throughout the raft and Mike, Um, No, it's just you know, 0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:10.280 we had it one episode. I think the first one 0:01:10.480 --> 0:01:15.200 was with Sean. I believe it was with Sean and 0:01:16.120 --> 0:01:20.160 Kristen and Catherine, and the reaction to the moms were 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:22.839 just like, we want another one. So I figured where 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:25.880 we were at, it would be a good opportunity to 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:28.040 you know what, what can we turn this into? Because 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:31.199 you know, I'm always trying to trying to be like Okay, 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:33.720 what like, what can we do with with where we're 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:36.360 at and like, you know, the podcast, and to make 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:40.000 it something where it's still feels authentic and still feels 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:46.040 real and um, you know, not fake or not any lies. 0:01:46.120 --> 0:01:49.840 So it's like mom January and someone just came up 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:52.640 with mom Uary and I'm like, shoot, I gotta used 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:58.559 that in January. So maybe next Momuary we'll do it again. 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:02.160 But then you can come on and be the the dad, 0:02:02.440 --> 0:02:04.360 the voice for the husband, the voice for the husbands. 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:07.040 Mark came in clutch a few times, but it's uncle 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:11.079 Mark of courtunated. But no, I mean, I know Easton 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:16.519 missed you. You know, It's funny. When I was uh unavailable, 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:21.040 I texted Easton. I texted him a pictures. It was 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:22.800 I was up in the media room and I was 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:26.280 building that millennium falcon, Lego said, And that's when I said, hey, 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:28.240 do you guys wanna where Mike's been building the up? 0:02:29.080 --> 0:02:30.640 And I sent it to Easton. I was like, well, 0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:34.840 I guess being an exilely too bad. Now, Okay, I 0:02:34.880 --> 0:02:38.840 mean I feel like we should address that elephant in 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:41.560 the room because I don't want the listeners to think 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:44.720 that I just kicked you off the podcast or that 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:49.320 it was just like because that's that's not the case 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:54.440 at all, and all right, all joking aside, real talk time, 0:02:55.480 --> 0:03:00.919 serious wine down time. The thing is, you know, Jane 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:04.640 and I are very honest, very vulnerable on this podcast. 0:03:04.720 --> 0:03:06.800 That's part of why all of you listen, which we 0:03:06.840 --> 0:03:11.320 greatly appreciate. The fact of the matter is we are 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:18.880 still two people with real life problems, and we still 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:22.639 reserve our right to privacy to a certain extent, and 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:24.760 it's our choice to come out and share a lot 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:27.839 of this with you. We learned the hard way when 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:34.640 we came out and try to have that show after 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:39.400 the whole picture deleting incident, and we realized after that, 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:42.520 we learned a lot that you know, we can't share 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:44.840 open wounds. They have to be scars and has to 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:50.440 be something we process first together. And so this past month, 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:53.120 you know, we still have growing to do in our 0:03:53.160 --> 0:03:59.520 relationship um together and both individually and for me, it's uh, 0:03:59.680 --> 0:04:01.920 it was really a time with things that went on 0:04:02.560 --> 0:04:08.160 with us to really dig into and and face face 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:11.680 the facts of things that can be doing better in 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:15.320 my own recovery and growing as a person. And growing 0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:21.039 as a husband. Um, so we're really kind of like 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:23.760 Janna said, she she was able to buy buy me 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:29.320 some more time to do that, which I which I appreciate. UM, 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:31.640 And I was very you know, understanding supportive of her. 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:35.839 And you know, I did an individual intensive um over 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:39.160 a long weekend and did a lot of work on myself. 0:04:39.560 --> 0:04:42.479 And I mean, Jane and I are in the myths 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:47.520 of doing a couple is intensive right now and doing work, um, 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:52.120 you know, with each other. But it's, uh, it's something 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:55.680 that we're gonna we're gonna dive into at her at 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:59.880 a later time, right, honey. Well, if I'm if I'm 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:02.960 listener and if I'm Mark, you know, they're always like 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:10.400 why dance around it? And um, if you're going to 0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:13.440 be honest, be honest. And I feel like and I 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:15.800 get that piece and I understand what you're saying to 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:22.159 you know, the actual specifics is something where you know, 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:29.800 we've been we've been journaling and writing stories. Our story 0:05:29.839 --> 0:05:34.360 that sounds so crazy on paper, you know, and it 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:37.200 doesn't make sense. Since I was reading it, I was like, wow, 0:05:38.160 --> 0:05:42.240 I like this is crazy. But we've also been able 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:44.400 to write down the resolve of how we were able 0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:49.880 to resolve that certain issue. And you know, with this incident, 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:54.080 are we ready to share it? No? But will we yes? 0:05:55.160 --> 0:06:00.719 And whether that's us putting something out there later. Right now, 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:03.400 it just feels like what we learned from that incident. 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:06.600 And I think what it's hard to is because you know, 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:09.400 everyone's just looking for like the next headline. And what 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:14.760 hurts us is, like Mike said, we're two people were 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:18.360 trying to share. We are sharing, We're being vulnerable with you. 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:23.359 But when someone gets it wrong, you know, for example, 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:26.880 you know they have they will have put Mike relapsed. 0:06:26.920 --> 0:06:30.680 Well that's to someone. They're gonna think, Okay, he relapsed 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:34.000 with another person, or he relapsed. You know, they're going 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:37.919 to come up with something that is harmful for not 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:41.919 only us, but harmful to what we're building and harmful 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:45.240 to the message that we're like no, no, no, no, no, 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:48.720 like they're just reading, oh no, he relapsed again. I 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:52.560 remember reading that, thinking but he didn't. He didn't. He 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:55.840 didn't physically cheat. It within me like he yes, he 0:06:55.960 --> 0:06:59.760 with he might have broken a boundary, but that isn't 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:03.479 he didn't. So I'm like still hurt, but yet still 0:07:03.480 --> 0:07:05.240 trying to defend him at the same time, and it 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:09.720 becomes this massive conflict where it's that we want to share, 0:07:10.040 --> 0:07:13.240 but then we get afraid of what they're gonna misread 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:17.560 and that and you know, what we know is and 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:19.440 I think you can attest to this is what you 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:23.600 know is the last out when you were so um 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:29.800 when the last year and a half, since the one 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:35.000 relapse that was a potential like you were, You've came 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:38.320 out with that that you almost acted on it, that 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:40.760 was that was a relapse, but you didn't act on it. 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:44.720 But since then you've come to realize that you haven't 0:07:44.760 --> 0:07:49.840 been truly working your program. Yeah. And in something I've've 0:07:49.920 --> 0:07:52.600 kind of discovered in my own work this past month 0:07:52.680 --> 0:07:55.840 and that I've kind of had discussions with Jana about, 0:07:55.960 --> 0:08:00.160 is you know, there's a big difference between Live being 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:04.640 a not acting out program or not drinking programmer, or 0:08:04.640 --> 0:08:08.800 not using drugs program versus a life changing program. And 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:10.280 I had to get real with myself and I had 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:12.800 to realize, I'm like, there's a lot of things in 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:15.280 my life that I'm not doing different, and it just 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:19.920 feels like at times I'm going through the motion and 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:24.360 but when I'm regardless, even if I'm not relapsing or 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:27.680 acting out or stepping outside of our marriage, if I'm 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:31.239 still breaking boundaries, we're not being completely honest with things 0:08:31.280 --> 0:08:34.080 like that picture stuff and other things. It's like, how 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:38.280 is that sober? How is that life changing? How is 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:42.439 that living with integrity? It's not, And so it just 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:47.400 you know, we needed time to again grow individually, grow 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:51.760 as a couple, and like Janna said, we're not trying 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:55.119 to dance around anything or withhold it from our listeners. 0:08:55.200 --> 0:08:58.040 I mean, the reality is there was a boundary that 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:01.920 was broken, but that was harmful for me because it 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:07.199 was a discovery. But again, it wasn't a physical acting out. 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:09.480 So that's why I'm very careful, and because I do 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:12.400 want to protect you as well, because I don't want 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:17.600 people to think that it was a physical relapse. But 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:20.600 it was also it was such a big discovery with 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:25.239 a boundary that it was harmful to me in our relationship, 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:28.080 which made you then realize, oh my god, I've been 0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:32.120 living in this lies of justifications, and I mean, you 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:35.360 can speak more on that. So the people the females 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:37.960 are listeners can maybe understand their husbands or their partners 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:40.120 a little bit more, but where they're living in that 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:44.640 they think that because they're not acting out, it's okay 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:47.360 to do a B and C, when in all actuality, 0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:50.240 that's if that partner finds out and that's a boundary, 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:53.880 it's going to affect them, and it's it is that 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:59.920 justification where you know, sometimes at least for myself, I 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:07.200 can't speak for everyone, but it is we try to 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:08.760 make it or I try to make it black and 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:12.840 white where it's like, hey, I'm not acting out. I'm 0:10:12.920 --> 0:10:16.920 not you know, physically looking at anything, physically looking at 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:20.360 anything inappropriate. I'm not you know, acting it's out of marriage, 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:23.280 I'm not whatever it is, I'm not doing that. So 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:26.920 what I'm doing is okay. And it's like that justification 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:30.800 where that's my defense and it's taking some time for 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:33.320 me to realize, like, oh wait, this is still triggering 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:38.079 you in ways that didn't realize. And there's also that 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:42.280 piece where it's still a lie and still the justification 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:47.120 is a lie with what you're telling our relationship. So 0:10:47.200 --> 0:10:50.680 that piece is still when I ask you, hey, any 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:55.400 secrets are lies that can be that is a secret 0:10:55.440 --> 0:10:59.240 and a lie, but you've justified it as not being one, 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:05.559 and that's harmful when someone discovers it and it's like, 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:10.680 but wait, I thought, but I can. I can totally 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:14.959 see on your side where you think where you can 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:17.520 think that. But I think now you've also seen the 0:11:17.559 --> 0:11:20.800 opposite effect too of what that discovery and what that 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:25.000 lie does, because I've always said, it's not about the act, 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:27.600 it's about the lie, it's about the discovery. It's about 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:30.880 because that brings me back to day one of the 0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:35.200 discovery for sure. So yeah, to bring it full circle, 0:11:35.280 --> 0:11:38.240 it's we're not trying to dance around it. We're just 0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:43.640 trying to reserve the right to us details right now 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:50.000 for our own privacy, because we've seen how when tabloids 0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:52.640 or publications listen to this and they take things and 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:55.880 run with it, it is harmful for our relationship when 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:58.480 they get it wrong. And then next thing, you know, 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:02.680 I have to see shameful things in the news. Janna 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:05.960 has to see comments that are degrading or judgmental, and 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:08.839 that that takes a toll on you. I don't care 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:11.000 who you are, and as much as we don't let 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:13.920 it affect us, after a while, it does, especially when 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:18.199 you leave live and share this openly and vulnerably vulnerably 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:22.000 that we do. And again hopefully we'll be able to 0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:25.600 come out with you know, our stories and then we 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:33.520 will certain things like hey, this happened. Uh yeah, um no, 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:36.559 but where it's like this happened and this is how 0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:39.640 we dealt with it. And I think you know bottom 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:42.920 line was you know, was a boundary broken? Yes? Was 0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:46.760 it harmful for me? Yes? Because of now was it 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:51.360 out of marriage? Did he relapse? No? But I mean 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:54.600 you can speak on it like you've re Yeah, every 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:58.440 set my time, because that was what I needed to 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:02.280 I would have felt like I was still justifying if 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:05.719 I didn't, like I'll still I would still be excusing 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:09.520 behavior that really wasn't different from what I was doing. Yeah, 0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:12.880 I wasn't acting out, but still, how is that? How 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:15.319 is that any change? You know? How is that showing 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:19.800 you anything and showing myself anything? So I know the 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:23.560 answer because we've danced around this the past month with 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:26.600 the therapy and you know, been on my knees trying 0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:30.000 to understand it, and um, for everyone that's listening and 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:31.640 that it's kind of in this has been in the 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:39.840 same situation. How well, why why do you justify What 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:46.800 makes you justify um when you know that it could 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:50.800 be hurtful or harmful and it's and then it's a 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:53.920 boundary that you know that I said I wouldn't do this, 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:58.160 but uh so what to help the other ladies out 0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:05.320 there understand because I know now, because you know, but 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:09.840 it might be helpful for other people to hear that, Yeah, 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:17.000 it's uh it's it's. It is a difficult thing to explain. 0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:19.760 But from the work we've done, the work I've done, 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:24.920 what it's come down to for me is it really 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:29.000 it's a selfish thought. First of all, it's self preservation 0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:35.680 and it's really entitlement to Yeah, it's it's pride, an 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:40.800 entitlement because it's really hard to sit in the pain 0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:46.800 and the consequences of our actions, it really is. And 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:52.120 as a man two sit in the in that pain 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:55.680 and that shame of what you've done and what you've 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:59.560 done to somebody that you love. How do you think 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:03.120 of yourself if as a man, you know, if if 0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:09.120 you're not living with integrity and the way a good 0:15:09.120 --> 0:15:16.480 man and good husband should. So, how do we regain that? 0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:21.400 It's by trying to puff out our chest, plan our 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:26.760 flag on the mountain with pride, an ego and entitlement 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:37.160 and incomes justification for doing things that we know rationally 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:45.600 probably shouldn't be doing. It can be harmful. Um. And 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:49.040 that's just that's just been real, honestly, And that's what 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:52.960 comes down to you for me when you're in that 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:56.440 place and you know I know that. Again. We danced 0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:59.880 on this a lot the last month and I said 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:02.800 it every night we've done a check in and he said, 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:06.200 no lies, no secrets. How do you justify that's not 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:13.760 a line, that's not a secret. Please know that I'm 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:17.200 not like I'm beating you up right now, just for 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:18.960 sure feel like we're in a good space. No, we're 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:23.400 in a great space. It's a it comes down to 0:16:24.840 --> 0:16:28.400 looking at it black and white, you know what I mean, 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:30.800 where it's just like it's not a line of secret 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:36.120 because I'm not really acting now. I'm not doing the 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:39.600 big things that the tabloids say that, you know what 0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:43.240 I mean that the real major big things that everyone 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:50.320 assumes is the issue. Um. And so it is it's 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:56.200 just that rational rationalization justification that I'm a man, I 0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:59.640 can I can do this. It's not I'm not doing 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:03.360 the big thing. I'm not taking a drink, mh. I'm 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:06.400 just doing something different that you know, and that's where 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:08.280 you know kind of Over the last month we talked 0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:13.320 about where I think for the first time, I've realized 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:17.080 and accepted that boundaries that we have in our relationship 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:23.480 aren't about controlling me. It is about your safety. And 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:26.000 even if I said that in the past, I don't 0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:29.199 know if, like in my core, I felt that or 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:35.879 believed it because I didn't think I had a choice. 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:38.639 I just thought I had to do what you need 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:42.800 and what you said because that's what you said you needed, 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:47.639 and I just is it not what your program And 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:50.280 that's and but that's the ship, right, that's the difference 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:54.919 between me then and me now realizing that that's not 0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:58.840 just for your safety, that's for my safety. You know 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:03.720 that at I need that too to to be where 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:05.199 I want to be and go where I want to 0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:13.119 go and be who I am. So it's a but 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:17.240 it's tough for any man to too. I don't think 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:20.920 there are many men out there that, when in these 0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:23.159 kind of situations, when boundaries come up, that were like, 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:27.400 all right, sounds great, and just live within the boundaries 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:33.000 with no kind of feeling internally there's gonna be that 0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:38.560 eventual pushback by majority of men. Is it because you 0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:42.040 put us in that role of you can't do this 0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:49.120 like the dictator? Yeah? And it's hard because even though 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:56.000 our actions are what created that dynamic, h, we still 0:18:56.000 --> 0:19:00.000 want to blame you. It's so interesting and it's messed up. 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:06.679 It is, you know, it's just like, uh, what what? 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:16.840 I think it's the immaturity of men um where it's 0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:19.240 just like a kid, right, like most kids are high 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:26.360 schoolers are immature. So when our parents disciplined us as 0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:30.119 high schoolers or as kids, even though our actions are 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:33.399 there are what our discipline has got us in this situation, 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:36.800 we still say that's not fair. It's so unfair. Why 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:39.960 would you do that? Well, it's because you did something 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:42.960 we asked you not to do, so I think that's 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:45.320 that's what comes up for us. It's like the child 0:19:45.359 --> 0:19:49.320 inside of us and men I think just a naturally 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:53.960 more immature, right than than women, especially emotionally more immature 0:19:54.000 --> 0:19:57.280 than women. So it's like that little boy inside of 0:19:57.359 --> 0:20:00.720 us that's like, that's not fair. I don't want to 0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:06.600 don't ground me, you know, I want to play Mario brothers. 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:12.960 So it's it is part of that. And and so 0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:18.359 finally feeling like I can be in a place to accept, 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:23.560 truly accept responsibilities for my actions but not just think 0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:27.199 of think of them as the responsibility consequences of my actions, 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:30.040 but also realizing that it's for safety for both of us, 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:39.720 and boundaries are something that we agree upon. Okay, I 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:44.080 am are you okay? I see your eyes a little bit. 0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:54.480 It's just been a really heavy month. Yeah, And the 0:20:54.520 --> 0:21:12.160 heaviness isn't um sorry, um, it's a it's a heaviness, 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:14.320 but it's also like a gratefulness that like we can 0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:21.840 still be sitting here conversating um. But it's also that 0:21:21.920 --> 0:21:25.400 fear too. I think that's the been the hardest part 0:21:25.440 --> 0:21:29.280 of this month, is you know, we've both individually done 0:21:29.280 --> 0:21:32.480 a lot of work and then we've done obviously you 0:21:32.520 --> 0:21:35.800 were now intensive from nine am to five pm today, 0:21:36.080 --> 0:21:38.359 So it's just like just a lot of work, and 0:21:38.400 --> 0:21:42.159 so it just feels I feels so heavy, um. But 0:21:42.240 --> 0:21:51.639 it also feels um, you know, I feel and I 0:21:51.680 --> 0:21:57.680 never m I think I've always been afraid to use 0:21:57.760 --> 0:22:03.159 this word, but I do feel hopeful for like the 0:22:03.200 --> 0:22:11.360 tools that we've been learning. Um, but it's also very scary, 0:22:11.560 --> 0:22:14.520 and you know, I feel like I have some ownership 0:22:14.600 --> 0:22:22.560 and you know feeling. You know, I've read back on 0:22:22.760 --> 0:22:27.320 comments about this and they're like, you know, you don't 0:22:27.320 --> 0:22:29.600 seem like you respect your husband or you talk down 0:22:29.600 --> 0:22:32.040 to him, and you know, there's ownership that I can 0:22:32.080 --> 0:22:36.320 take in that, because I've had a hard time respecting 0:22:36.440 --> 0:22:43.280 you at times because of the constant betrayals and that's 0:22:44.920 --> 0:22:46.639 but I's so so it's so hard, and I'm like, 0:22:46.640 --> 0:22:48.399 I want to take an accountability for it, but yet 0:22:48.440 --> 0:22:50.520 then it's so hard because I'm so afraid to be hurt. 0:22:51.000 --> 0:22:54.080 So it's easier to just shell up and just and 0:22:54.160 --> 0:22:58.600 to be nasty or too that makes sense. It's easier, 0:22:58.800 --> 0:23:02.040 it's easier to be angry. It's easier. It's more fun 0:23:02.040 --> 0:23:06.000 to be angry. No, it's not fun. Um, it's easier, 0:23:07.080 --> 0:23:11.720 but it is. I guess I'm I guess I'm looking 0:23:11.840 --> 0:23:17.520 right now for empathy. Yeah, in this moment right now, 0:23:17.600 --> 0:23:23.000 with like and the people that have had in the 0:23:22.800 --> 0:23:26.600 same situation, maybe I can speak on the wives and say, 0:23:27.760 --> 0:23:31.159 because of the constant lies, can you see how it 0:23:31.240 --> 0:23:34.159 might be hard to lean into you and to and 0:23:34.280 --> 0:23:41.720 to trust your word. Yeah. Absolutely, and I want you 0:23:41.720 --> 0:23:44.040 to know that right now. First of all, I appreciate 0:23:44.080 --> 0:23:50.280 I appreciate your vulnerability, and like I hear you and 0:23:50.400 --> 0:23:57.880 I see you right now, and I feel I feel 0:23:57.920 --> 0:24:04.280 your pain. I can't imagine how hard it is to 0:24:04.359 --> 0:24:11.199 lean into somebody who's hurt you so much. That is 0:24:12.000 --> 0:24:24.879 terrifying and I'll never know exactly how that feels because 0:24:24.920 --> 0:24:29.240 you haven't done that to me, And so I have 0:24:29.280 --> 0:24:31.280 so much respect for you. I have so much love 0:24:31.320 --> 0:24:41.439 for you and your willingness two to do work in 0:24:41.440 --> 0:24:46.680 our relationship, to even to be even to be able 0:24:46.720 --> 0:24:53.399 to even say that you're hopeful and willing to take 0:24:53.680 --> 0:25:00.119 ownership and look at yourself for a fraction of it. 0:25:00.840 --> 0:25:08.040 But I can totally get how hard that must be 0:25:08.160 --> 0:25:13.119 when you're like, well, look, dickhead, you should stop doing that. 0:25:13.160 --> 0:25:19.840 It won't be so mean, you know, mm hmm um. 0:25:19.880 --> 0:25:23.399 I'm devastated by that, and I'm really sorry that I've 0:25:23.400 --> 0:25:31.480 made it so difficult because I see you trying, I 0:25:31.520 --> 0:25:38.040 really do, and I see why you or the way 0:25:38.080 --> 0:25:45.160 you are at times because it's part of the environment 0:25:45.160 --> 0:25:53.760 that I created, and I have to own that Yeah, mhm, yeah, 0:25:53.920 --> 0:25:59.960 I appreciate that. It's it's Um, I want so bad 0:26:00.000 --> 0:26:03.919 badly to move forward and to have that marriage that 0:26:04.000 --> 0:26:09.119 we've always talked about and to see the man that 0:26:10.160 --> 0:26:11.760 you say you're always going to be. And I think 0:26:11.800 --> 0:26:13.760 a lot of other women can maybe relate to this 0:26:13.840 --> 0:26:17.320 to where it's like they keep saying, I'm not going 0:26:17.359 --> 0:26:21.320 to do that again, or I'll do better next time. UM. 0:26:21.320 --> 0:26:23.400 A therapist that we're working with right now, she said, 0:26:23.440 --> 0:26:28.000 I'll try is a lie. When someone says I'll try 0:26:28.000 --> 0:26:33.680 to do better, that's a lie. I'll try means that's 0:26:33.680 --> 0:26:42.480 that's that's a lie. Um. And so when that keeps happening, 0:26:43.240 --> 0:26:46.280 then I feel like, so so when the betrayal and 0:26:46.320 --> 0:26:53.400 the lies and the discoveries keep happening, it's becomes insanity 0:26:53.440 --> 0:26:57.040 in my world. And then I start to feel insane. 0:26:57.240 --> 0:26:59.320 I start to feel like and I think other women 0:26:59.359 --> 0:27:06.359 out there feel like they're creating or they're repeating it. Um, 0:27:06.520 --> 0:27:10.600 it's insanity repeating itself. Yeah, it's a groundhome day. Yeah. 0:27:10.640 --> 0:27:13.159 And it's like, but you say you're going to be 0:27:13.200 --> 0:27:15.800 this other man, but then you're not doing it, and 0:27:15.840 --> 0:27:18.080 then it makes us feel crazy and it makes us 0:27:18.119 --> 0:27:21.200 feel like we do we not deserve better? Do we 0:27:21.280 --> 0:27:23.960 not deserve more? Do we not deserve to feel love? 0:27:24.080 --> 0:27:26.960 Do we not deserve to be told the truth and 0:27:27.240 --> 0:27:30.479 to be honest with So then it just tail spins 0:27:30.600 --> 0:27:33.600 us and then I make up, and then I start 0:27:33.640 --> 0:27:39.440 taking off pictures on Instagram because I'm tail spinning. My 0:27:39.440 --> 0:27:44.000 my my younger child is like, I'm, I'm, I'm you know, 0:27:44.040 --> 0:27:48.800 I'm I'm. I start just spinning out of control. It's cold, 0:27:50.400 --> 0:27:54.119 shut up, no, but I I just I feel like 0:27:54.359 --> 0:27:56.040 I don't know, I'm not the only woman out there 0:27:56.080 --> 0:28:00.520 that's done that, but it's just it becomes so out 0:28:00.560 --> 0:28:04.440 of control that when you and that you know me, 0:28:04.480 --> 0:28:08.159 and I'm I'm already at my limit with discoveries and 0:28:08.240 --> 0:28:12.479 lies that I've I hit it and I was just 0:28:12.520 --> 0:28:16.399 like I pressed the button. I said, yes, this is 0:28:16.440 --> 0:28:21.679 where I'm now unraveling. And now I'm harmed again, and 0:28:21.760 --> 0:28:25.240 now it's shame on me. So I'm gonna I'm gonna 0:28:25.720 --> 0:28:31.280 wall up. And it's just and what I've learned with 0:28:31.320 --> 0:28:33.160 my therapist now that I feel like I can maybe 0:28:33.160 --> 0:28:35.920 give back to some of the women or men out 0:28:35.920 --> 0:28:38.400 there that I've got are going through similar situations, is 0:28:40.000 --> 0:28:43.560 you know what's hurt hurt versus harm Because a lot 0:28:43.600 --> 0:28:47.000 of times with people that have been in trauma relationships 0:28:47.120 --> 0:28:52.920 or um traumatic relationships is for me, where I go 0:28:53.120 --> 0:28:54.720 is I'm like, oh my god, I can't do this. 0:28:54.800 --> 0:28:57.280