1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so 3 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:34,200 Speaker 1: much for tuning in. Let's hear it for the man, 4 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,880 Speaker 1: the myth, the legend, our super producer, mister Max Williams, 5 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: Who Max, Crystal Pepsi Williams and Crystal Gravy Williams. That's 6 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:49,160 Speaker 1: a snail shout out. That's mister Noel Brown. I am Ben, 7 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: I'm Ben Bullet. 8 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 2: Yes, that's right, that is who you are. And I 9 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 2: just have a question, man, is that a performative thing 10 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 2: to people? Just are got they compelled to do it 11 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 2: by habit? What is it indicating even refreshment satisfaction. 12 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 1: I think it's nostalgia. I think it's also something people 13 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: have been brainwashed into doing. But folks, if you like us, 14 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 1: have spent a lot of time in the Southeast, you 15 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: recognize that pop and that maybe there's some science to it, 16 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: maybe aspirating like that makes the water a little spicier. 17 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:36,399 Speaker 1: A yeah, this is our story about something just patently ridiculous. 18 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 1: And guys, are we soda fans? I don't think either 19 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: of you guys are really. 20 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:45,039 Speaker 2: On the pop. I am a DDP man. Okay, it 21 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 2: means diet doctor Pepper. Oh, okay, I think it is 22 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 2: the superior diet soda. I used to be a DC man, 23 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 2: but now I'm exclusively a DDP man. And other than that, 24 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 2: only a fizzy water. And lately I've been making pomegranate 25 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 2: fizzy water spritzers, which is kind of like a soda 26 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 2: that you make at home. Hmmm. Nice. What about you, Max? Uh? 27 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 3: Personally A, I love that you drop the pop reference 28 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 3: right there. Of course, as a native Midwesterner, the word 29 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:16,399 Speaker 3: pop is just burned into my memory. But it has 30 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 3: been many years since I've had a soda pop. Whoa, Yeah, 31 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 3: well a Coca Cola and most soda pops are not 32 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 3: conditioned there. But also I before that it would be 33 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 3: it was a very rare occasion. I just I know, 34 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 3: I like soda when I was younger, but I don't know. 35 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 3: I around my mid twenties, I just stopped drinking it. 36 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 2: Well, it is bonkers to me that some people just 37 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 2: drink it as they're like only of fluid. Yeah, it's 38 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 2: the source of hydration. 39 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a special occasion for me, guys. 40 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 2: I'm a whole street Coca cola zero. 41 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 1: Uh, I don't know if I could take the unletted 42 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 1: here in my ancient years. 43 00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 2: You know, when I'll have the unletted occasionally been and 44 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 2: only then is on an airplane, will I will get 45 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 2: a full flavored coke because they don't give you the 46 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:07,919 Speaker 2: whole can and it's with ice. So it's just sort 47 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 2: of like, oh, what was that like? Let me remind 48 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 2: myself what that tastes like? 49 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: And it is the taste of a generation, and it 50 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 1: will taste different on a plane due to the high altitude. Yeah, 51 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:24,359 Speaker 1: maybe we know that soda is not for everyone, and 52 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 1: we are not going to pretend it's the most healthy 53 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:31,079 Speaker 1: thing you can drink. But hot dog, folks, is it tasty? 54 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: You can find all sorts of spins on the basic ingredients, right, sugar, 55 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: flavored syrup, carbonated water, a little bit of acid. 56 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 2: Some sodas like it makes it really kick, really kicks. 57 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 1: Some sodas like Coca cola, pepsi, you know, you know 58 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: them all the world round, and then others are more 59 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: regionally famous, like have you guys ever tried a cheer 60 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: wine or. 61 00:03:56,080 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 2: Doctor enough, Doctor enough? It's just enough. Ben, I think 62 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 2: I mentioned to you the other day that I've been 63 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 2: really enjoying rewatching and watching some of it for the 64 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 2: first time. A sketch comedy show called The Birthday Boys, 65 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 2: and they did a fantastic sketch where there's that old 66 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 2: trope of like, you know, the two guys that know 67 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 2: the secret recipe to coca cola never allowed to like 68 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 2: fly on the same plane together or even like you know, 69 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 2: I guess the lore the exaggerated version goes be in 70 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:28,160 Speaker 2: the same room together. Well, in this Birthday Boys sketch, 71 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 2: they're best friends and they're one of them is like 72 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:32,839 Speaker 2: on an interview show and he's asking him about so 73 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 2: what's the deal with the whole like you and the 74 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 2: other guys. Oh, he's right over there. We drove here together. 75 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 2: We're gonna go to a movie later, you want to come, 76 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 2: And then the guys that know the pepsi recipe are 77 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 2: also there. And then later on the two guys that 78 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:49,239 Speaker 2: know the tab recipe saunter in and nobody cares about 79 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:50,159 Speaker 2: what happens to them. 80 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. The only person I knew who an 81 00:04:54,000 --> 00:05:00,479 Speaker 1: ironically drank tab was our old mentor and original boss, 82 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:03,280 Speaker 1: Roxanne Reed. She actually liked it. I thought it was 83 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 1: a bit for years. 84 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 2: I don't understand what tab is. I think it's basically 85 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 2: just like generic diet cola that doesn't taste like anything 86 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,160 Speaker 2: in particular. But I can't really speak to it, Ben, 87 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 2: because I've never I've never had the pleasure. 88 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:20,600 Speaker 1: It's I've had the unfortunate experience. It answers the question 89 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 1: I guess some customers have where they're drinking a different 90 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: soda and they say, what if this tasted terrible? 91 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:29,679 Speaker 2: Right? What if it was this but bad? 92 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: Kind of like Dr pepper twenty three secret ingredients and 93 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:34,479 Speaker 1: they're all poop. 94 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:36,839 Speaker 2: Now, Ben, you know, I'm a Doctor pepper Man, although 95 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 2: I'm really more of a of a DDP man, but 96 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 2: I will occasionally have a full flavor one of those 97 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 2: as a treat as well. But Ben, you know who 98 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 2: did take something that everybody loved and thought what if 99 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:50,679 Speaker 2: it was this but bad? Well? It was the Coca 100 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:54,600 Speaker 2: Cola company, That's right. Yes, episode's all about that is 101 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 2: and I think that's what they were doing. They thought 102 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 2: they were being real crafty and smart, and they were 103 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:02,599 Speaker 2: telling them the public a new idea that this is gonna, 104 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:05,919 Speaker 2: you know, take take coke into the future. And of course, 105 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 2: as we sit and record this, and as we sit 106 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 2: in most days of our lives, we find ourselves in 107 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:15,359 Speaker 2: the fair metropolis that is Atlanta, Georgia, home of the 108 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 2: Atlanta Braves, chicken wings, and coc colon. 109 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,840 Speaker 1: And you've probably heard countless stories from the Great Soda Wars, 110 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: like how companies work to keep their recipe secret, or 111 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:36,159 Speaker 1: how this is a true story, folks, PEPSI was briefly 112 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 1: a naval force, But today we're looking at something different. 113 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: This spicy little sip or ridiculous history is coming to 114 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: us from none other than, as you said, NOL, Atlanta's 115 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,840 Speaker 1: own Coca Cola. We can all agree Coke is a 116 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:55,040 Speaker 1: massive success story, but we can also agree they did 117 00:06:55,160 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 1: not get everything right. So grab your favorite ashy snack 118 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 1: of choice. What goes better with a soda? We leave 119 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: it to you. This may be a two parter, or 120 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 1: dare we say a two leader. Perhaps the best example 121 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: of a swing and a miss by our friends at 122 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: Coke is something called New Coke. New Coke, and stay 123 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: tuned for some conspiracies at the end. 124 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 2: Nol, we've talked about this fella recently. Ben, When does 125 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 2: this come up in recent episodees talking about John as Pemberton, 126 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 2: the pharmacist. 127 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 1: With oh gosh, yeah, we have talked about him in 128 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 1: the past. I think it's. 129 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 2: Recently and I can't remember what it was. 130 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: It's weird because we have, you know, we have a 131 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: bit of a bubble of information, folks, Max Noll and yours. Truly, 132 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: We're going to keep the origin story short, partially because 133 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: it could be it's an old episode, partially because, as 134 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 1: you pointed out, Nol, we probably end up talking about 135 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 1: this pretty often, but mainly because, folks, everybody who grew 136 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 1: up in Georgia already knows the origin story of Coca cola, 137 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: chapter and verse. Yeah, take us to Pemberton. 138 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 2: Man, Well, I did kind of forget that. Johnny p 139 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 2: not to be confused with Johnny Pemberton, who's a delightful 140 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 2: comedian and actor, was actually a colonel in the Civil 141 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 2: War for the Batties. 142 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: A Confederate colonel, he had sustained some pretty gnarly injuries, 143 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 1: and this led to him picking up an equally gnarly 144 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: morphine addiction. 145 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, a monkey on his back. After the war, 146 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 2: he desperately searched for something to kick the habit. With yeah, 147 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 2: and it was the right thing to do. 148 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: This is the mid eighteen eighties. He is based in 149 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 1: Columbus at the time, and he originally comes up with 150 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,719 Speaker 1: something he calls Pemberton's French Wine coca. 151 00:08:56,120 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, so cocaine juice, yes, with alcohol and caffeine. 152 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 2: Let's replace my morphine addiction with alcoholism and cocaine addiction. 153 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, And the issue was Pemberton's French Wine coca. 154 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:16,080 Speaker 1: It's sold, okay, I know, but also French wine feels 155 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 1: it's weird to say both of those. 156 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 2: It's a little redundant a bit. 157 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: And this this concoction wasn't quite scratching the itch for him, 158 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: if you get what we're saying. 159 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 2: So now he's French invented wine. It just seems like 160 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 2: putting a hat on a hat. 161 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 1: It does, Yeah, because when Americans think of wine, they 162 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:37,719 Speaker 1: already think of France, you know what I mean. Nobody's 163 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 1: like wine, oh, Spanish, even though there are lots of 164 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: Spanish wines. 165 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 2: Absolutely, and some people might think of Italy, but I 166 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 2: certainly think of France. 167 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, right, I'm right there with you, man. So it's 168 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: eighteen eighty six Atlanta and the larger Fulton County passed 169 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 1: prohibition laws because they hated fun and so in response, 170 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: our buddy Johnny makes a non alcoholic version of Pemberton's 171 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: French Wine. He does up the cocaine quotient, right, He 172 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:10,839 Speaker 1: calls it well, his bookkeeper tells him to call it 173 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 1: coca cola. That's the basic story. And yes, as you 174 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: can tell, folks, we are familiar with the rumors. They 175 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:23,839 Speaker 1: are true. Up until about nineteen oh three, the original 176 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: Coca Cola, Coca Cola Classic as it would later be called, 177 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: did contain cocaine. Like we say, it was a different time. 178 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 2: And actually again this must have come up on her stuff. 179 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 2: They don't want you to know. But to this day, 180 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 2: the cocaine that would be a byproduct of the coca 181 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 2: that's used to make Coca cola like goes somewhere. It 182 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 2: does exist, and they generate a ton of the stuff 183 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 2: every single year. 184 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:55,440 Speaker 3: To jump in here, a great minds thingle light like 185 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:58,439 Speaker 3: also nol in my mind thinks like as well as 186 00:10:58,480 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 3: I was about to jump in here and ask that 187 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 3: exact same question, because I was talking to a doctor 188 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 3: friend of mine and I'm not to get the nose 189 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 3: procedure done. She's like, Oh, yeah, they're gonn numbing up. 190 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 3: I'm like, probably with a bunch of a cocaine from 191 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 3: Coca cola. 192 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:12,959 Speaker 2: That's what it is. It goes to the dental Yes, 193 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 2: it goes to malancrot pharmaceuticals. The cocaine byproduct extracted from 194 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 2: coca leaves used to flavor coca cola is sold to 195 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 2: a pharmaceutical company and often used in various topical forms. 196 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 1: Because of the numbing effect, I believe. So there is 197 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: so much more to the history of Coca cola. That's 198 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 1: a That's a drink for another day. For now, let's 199 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: fast forward skirt skirt across Coke's expansion throughout the US 200 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 1: and then later across the planet. At the close of 201 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: World War Two, Coca Cola controls something like sixty percent 202 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: of the entire market share for cola. This is a 203 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 1: catbird seat. But we all know the problem with being 204 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 1: the king of the hill. Kings have a tendency to fall. 205 00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 2: That's true, and if you take a shot at the king, 206 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 2: you're best not messed. That doesn't really apply here, but 207 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 2: it's an expression that I enjoy. 208 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 1: Yes, ed, we know that Coke already by this point 209 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 1: has an arch rival, Pepsi. 210 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:14,439 Speaker 2: Ah. 211 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 1: Pepsi is hot on Coca Cola's heels. For a time 212 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 1: it looked as though Pepsi might win the soda wars. 213 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 1: It's if you look at nineteen eighty three, you see 214 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: the Coke's market share, which again used to be sixty percent, 215 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 1: has decreased by more than half, all the way down 216 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,679 Speaker 1: to under twenty four percent. And the issue here is 217 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 1: that Pepsi is out selling Coke in grocery stores and markets. 218 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: Coke is barely hanging on because they have all these 219 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:49,079 Speaker 1: legacy deals with big institutions. They have armies of vending machines, 220 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 1: they have an exclusivity agreement with the fast food giant McDonald's, 221 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: so that's where they're making their money. 222 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:00,959 Speaker 2: For sure, and that's obviously still very much a thing today. 223 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 2: I am always bummed out when I go to a 224 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 2: place and realize they only sell Pepsi products, because I 225 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 2: just think pepsi is gross. I do not like the 226 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:10,560 Speaker 2: way it tastes, and again not a soda drinker, but 227 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 2: I just think it's not a local bias. Coke just 228 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:17,559 Speaker 2: unequivocally tastes better than pepsi. So Coke did respond to this, 229 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 2: you know, potential catastrophe of you know, pepsi just eating 230 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 2: up all their market share in multiple ways. Their marketing 231 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 2: folks believe that these aging baby boomers would become increasingly 232 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 2: likely to drink diet sodas or you know, maybe like 233 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 2: switched to water as they became more health and weight 234 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 2: conscious over time. So any growth and what they in 235 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 2: the industry refers to as full calorie sodas would have 236 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 2: to come from younger customers, you know, buying things like 237 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 2: Surge and Josta. H. Yeah, remember those, they said those 238 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 2: in schools. 239 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 3: M h. 240 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 1: I'm a fan of Jolt as well, and the Serge 241 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 1: people gave me and my cohort a bunch of Surge 242 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:06,679 Speaker 1: themed CDs. 243 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 2: Back in the day. 244 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 1: I think I still have one. But anyhow, what what 245 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 1: we know is that they were they were onto something, 246 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:17,079 Speaker 1: because these young customers are always going to be the 247 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 1: golden goose for marketing, and it seems these kids who 248 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: maybe liked the higher sugar sweetness content they dug pepsi. 249 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 1: And there's also a cultural thing that occurs because coke 250 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 1: is seen by part of this younger demographic as a 251 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:39,359 Speaker 1: member of the stodgy status quo and Pepsi, in contrast, 252 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 1: is a little more exciting, a little bit more edgy. 253 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 1: So the folks at Coca Cola started asking themselves, how 254 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: do we make coke cool? 255 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 2: Again? 256 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: Very important question, but the co came back right right, 257 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 1: and someone said, uh, Jeremy, you're. 258 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 2: Crazy, Sorry about that. We're gonna need to do this 259 00:14:59,440 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 2: my way. 260 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 1: At the same time, you know, this question becomes a 261 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 1: time sensitive question. It's no longer abstract because they can 262 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: see that across the board customers are purchasing less cola. 263 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 1: In general, the market is as you mentioned there, nol, 264 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: it's shifting to diet drinks and non soda soft drinks, 265 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 1: and Coke does manufacture and sell quite a lot of 266 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: those alternative beverages. But they still felt the writing was 267 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 1: on the wall. Harumph, hrrumph. Something had to be done. 268 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 2: Well, and they weren't going to just let their flagship 269 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 2: legacy cash cow brand recognition beverage slip away. Oh yeah, 270 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 2: absolutely not, because it's still a Leviathan, right, And it's 271 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 2: not just a twelve ounce can or a bottle or 272 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 2: a six and a half ounce bottle. At this point, 273 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 2: it is a. It is a piece of identity, a 274 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 2: nostalgia for a lot of people. So into the scene 275 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 2: strolls one of those move fast and break things kind 276 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:23,479 Speaker 2: of guys, a new CEO with the name of Roberto Goizueta, Gitsueta, 277 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 2: who truly takes on this attitude that nothing is sacred, 278 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 2: not even the holiest of holy, the you know, original 279 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 2: recipe Coca cola. This happens in nineteen eighty. 280 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, and he says, look this, he first gets the 281 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: position in nineteen eighty, right, and he is, like you said, 282 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 1: he's kind of a cowboy, right, and he's a coke 283 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: man for sure. He had previously worked in the Bahamas 284 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: for the Coke subsidiary there, which will come into play. 285 00:16:56,240 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: They decided to create their own version of skunk Works. 286 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 1: Skunk Works is famously here in the US. It is 287 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:10,159 Speaker 1: the secret arm of Lockheed Martin that works on you know, 288 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:11,680 Speaker 1: the spy planes. 289 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 2: And the real spooky stuff. Yeah, I'm sort of a 290 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 2: military Willy Wonka kind of situation exactly. 291 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 1: That's a great way to put it. So Coke is 292 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: making their own kind of skunk Works, and the ZX, 293 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:25,680 Speaker 1: which is I think a pretty cool term for executives 294 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:29,119 Speaker 1: what do we think? Okay, the X All right, So 295 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 1: the ZX go to their marketing VP at the time, 296 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: a guy named Sergio Zimon, and their USA Coca Cola president, 297 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 1: a guy named Brian Dyson, and they say, all right, 298 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 1: we're gonna have a top secret operation. We are going 299 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: to mess with the original formula and no one can know. 300 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 1: So we have to call it a code name, and 301 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:52,920 Speaker 1: we're going to call it Project Kansas. 302 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, not to be confused with the Florida Project. There's 303 00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:59,479 Speaker 2: no reason you would confuse it. I just think it's 304 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:03,120 Speaker 2: funny when these big covert things are named in such 305 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 2: dull and uninteresting ways. 306 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:06,920 Speaker 1: And what was the Florida Project? Again? 307 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 2: Was that Disney Disney? Yeah, it was the way it 308 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 2: was like, it was the code name used so that 309 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 2: no one would know that the Walt Disney Corporation was 310 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 2: secretly buying up all this land on the cheap. 311 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:19,360 Speaker 1: In the Reedy Creek district. 312 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 2: That's right. 313 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 1: We have an episode about that too on stuff They'll 314 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: let you know. 315 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:27,399 Speaker 2: Also the name of excellent film about folks living in 316 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 2: some of the low rent, kind of disney fied motels 317 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 2: on the outskirts of Disneyland there in Florida in Orlando. 318 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:38,880 Speaker 2: The filmmaker that did that went on to win an 319 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 2: Oscar for Anora. It's one of his early early ones. 320 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 2: And I think it's phenomenal awesome. 321 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, and Project Kansas you might be seeing. Hey, guys, 322 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 1: you made such a big deal about Coca Cola being 323 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:56,959 Speaker 1: a cultural institution in Atlanta. Why is this called Project Kansas? Well, folks, 324 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 1: it is named after an internally famous photo of a 325 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: journalist named William Allen White. In the photo, he is 326 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 1: just looking housing a Coca Cola. We're kidding. He's sipping 327 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: it through a straw like a little punk. 328 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 2: But he does look like a dainty fellow with his 329 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:17,160 Speaker 2: with his bowler hat on, standing at the soda fountain, 330 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 2: just sipping away, clutching the glass, the tiny glass, and 331 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 2: he's clutching the glass and the straw and just seems 332 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:25,639 Speaker 2: like he's having a good old time. Oh I like 333 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 2: this pever sure. 334 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 1: Carbonated stuff through a straw. Anyway, It's unusual, man, it's unusual. 335 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:36,719 Speaker 2: Yeah. 336 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 1: Well yeah, if it's got ice, yeah, that changes. 337 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 3: He's also a small cup like cup I'm looking at nice. 338 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:47,919 Speaker 2: I think that was back when they mixed it on 339 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 2: the and yeah, on the fly, and yeah, the soda 340 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 2: jerks and I think they did use sort of smaller 341 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:54,120 Speaker 2: cups back in those. 342 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:55,639 Speaker 3: And there's a guy in the background who's just drinking 343 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 3: it without a straw straight. 344 00:19:57,320 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, like a couple of it looked like a bunch 345 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 2: of gangsters, so like they're about to do a heist. Actually, 346 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:05,920 Speaker 2: everyone accept our man in the front. He just looks 347 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 2: like an old man that wandered onto the scene. And 348 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 2: then these g men are in the back and joining 349 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 2: their sodas a little more, you know, covertly. 350 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,639 Speaker 1: And this photo please do look it up if you 351 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,080 Speaker 1: if you get a second again. That journalist is named 352 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 1: William Allen White. Kansas journalists Koch loved this photograph. They 353 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,479 Speaker 1: had used it in all sorts of marketing campaigns, and 354 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: if you walked around the zech's offices, you would see 355 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:34,159 Speaker 1: that several of them had prints of this photo, large 356 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:37,160 Speaker 1: prints that they would hang up on their office walls. 357 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 1: So that's why they called it the Kansas Project. Sergio 358 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 1: and Brian are looking back at the data they have 359 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 1: from numerous blind taste tests, surveys and focus groups, and 360 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:56,919 Speaker 1: they emphasized the taste test because most of the taste 361 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:01,119 Speaker 1: tests tell them that when customers go don't know which 362 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:05,120 Speaker 1: pop or soda they're drinking, they tend to prefer pepsi 363 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 1: because it has a sweeter taste. 364 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:12,119 Speaker 2: Boers to me, Man, Bogers, I mean, it's like coke 365 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:16,160 Speaker 2: has a flavor. Pepsi just kind of tastes like overly 366 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 2: saccharine syrup water. 367 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:23,639 Speaker 1: Do you guys think that people drink because I know 368 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 1: a lot of people order it a bar, like a 369 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 1: whiskey and a coke or a jack and coke or something. 370 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 1: Do people do that with pepsi? 371 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,239 Speaker 3: Yes, they very much do. Like I have, like you know, 372 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 3: I still have like family back in like Michigan and 373 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 3: stuff like that, and they'll talk about like, oh yeah, 374 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 3: when the bar and got a jack and pepsi. I'm like, 375 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 3: oh what, And it actually sounds like foreign to you. 376 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:44,680 Speaker 3: It's like what is this? What is this cocktaiin I've 377 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 3: never heard. 378 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 2: Of it, much like restaurants would. In particular, bars tend 379 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 2: to have a coke or pepsi not. 380 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, so, at least in my experience in Atlanta, we 381 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 3: basically get all your soda boxes from a specific distributor, 382 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:00,959 Speaker 3: so you get like all and they usually will have 383 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 3: coke that stripul will either have coke or pepsi or 384 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 3: something other things. So yeah, that's how it's exactly the 385 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 3: same as it would be able to change. So, like 386 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:10,919 Speaker 3: you know, I think was a KFCs pepsi products, but 387 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 3: that's r mc donald's, yeah. 388 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:15,639 Speaker 2: Because they're part of young brands Taco Bell as well. 389 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 2: And while I can't I can't stand pepsi, I do 390 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 2: love a Baja. 391 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 3: Blast, But in Atlanta, you know, it's just such a 392 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,159 Speaker 3: coke area that like everything is like it's like I 393 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:27,640 Speaker 3: remember being like we were just talking about one time 394 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,359 Speaker 3: just in general, and it was like massively more expensive 395 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:31,479 Speaker 3: and even just do pepsi. 396 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 2: Pepsi's kind of king yes still and in the Midwest 397 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:41,360 Speaker 2: and in the Pacific Northwest, and yeah, you're what you're 398 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 2: saying there. 399 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: Max ties into this idea of monopolization of distribution channels, 400 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,200 Speaker 1: which is another part of coke's success, to be quite honest, 401 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:54,920 Speaker 1: as well as pepsi's. And this marketing is confusing to 402 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:59,000 Speaker 1: Sergio and Brian because, as we mentioned earlier, they already 403 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 1: had other research that told them that a lot of 404 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 1: people were shifting away from the calorie heavy, super sweet stuff. 405 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 1: So why do these blind taste tests seem to emphasize 406 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 1: really sweet things. It might be because the first sweet 407 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 1: sip is cool, but it doesn't mean you would want 408 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: one hundred other SIPs of equal sweetness. Still, the facts 409 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,880 Speaker 1: are the facts. So these guys went back and they 410 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 1: fused with the Holy Grail, the secret formula for Coca Cola. 411 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 1: They mainly made it sweeter, logical move, and then they 412 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 1: put that secret still very sweet soda into fresh rounds 413 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: of taste tests. So now you would have like three cups. 414 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,639 Speaker 1: You would have a little cup of unidentified pepsi, a 415 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 1: little cup of secret Coca Cola, and a little cup 416 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 1: of what they were not yet calling new coke. And 417 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 1: this gets really interesting because they do some of these 418 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 1: taste tests in the Southeast United States, the historic cultural 419 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 1: stronghold of Coca Cola, and the customers there seem to 420 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 1: prefer the new flavor. And then once somebody unveils the 421 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 1: results and says, hey, this is also a Coca Cola product, 422 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,720 Speaker 1: the brand loyalty kicks in. Guys, the brainwashing kicks in, 423 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: and they say. 424 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 2: Oh, this is coke. 425 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: Well, I love coke, so I love this too. 426 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,199 Speaker 2: For sure, And so they're hoping anyway. I mean, you know, 427 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,680 Speaker 2: because it is there's a certain amount of nostalgia at 428 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 2: play in a brand like that that has such historical 429 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 2: roots and all of the imagery and gets credited for 430 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 2: being like responsible for the modern version of Santa Claus 431 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 2: and you know, all of these things that are kind 432 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 2: of wrapped up in American culture, and this guy kind 433 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 2: of overplaces hand a bit and thinking that that stuff's 434 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 2: going to be the stuff that's going to earn them 435 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 2: some good will. But in fact, what he's done here 436 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 2: is kind of took a big old poop on all 437 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 2: that stuff. 438 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's a true story. In the taste test, 439 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:17,440 Speaker 1: this stuff was so popular that one of their bottling 440 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 1: companies liked it so much they threatened to sue Coca 441 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: Cola if the company didn't actually roll out the product. 442 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 1: And to explain this really quickly, because Coca Cola is 443 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: such a big company, a lot of us regular consumers 444 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 1: Johnny Blue Jeans on the street, we're not aware that 445 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: the bottling companies are going to be third parties. Pretty 446 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:44,240 Speaker 1: often they have a contract with Coca Cola proper, but 447 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: they're their own thing and they just happened to have 448 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 1: a deal that allows them to make coke products. 449 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, and as we also know or maybe you don't, 450 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 2: when it comes to these types of companies, you got 451 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 2: to like make these orders way in advance in order 452 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:03,400 Speaker 2: to make uh deadlines for product rolls rollouts, and it's 453 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 2: it's it's a it's a whole thing where you sometimes 454 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,679 Speaker 2: have to schedule these productions like year a year in 455 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 2: demand sometimes. So it would absolutely be a problem if 456 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 2: all of a sudden they didn't have that business because 457 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,879 Speaker 2: they've literally, you know, rejected other business in favor of 458 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 2: being ready to go with this new product rollout for coke. 459 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: And it's an interesting corporate position too, write interesting business 460 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: arrangement because you are you are your own company. You 461 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 1: are not Coca Cola. But if someone asks you what 462 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,879 Speaker 1: you make, you make one hundred percent Coca Cola products. 463 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 1: It's got to like being a contract worker in a way. 464 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 2: Uh. 465 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: So this is all great news for Sergio and Brian. 466 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 1: It is the type of stuff that sounds awesome in 467 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 1: a boardroom, but the marketing is not as solid as 468 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,960 Speaker 1: it may have looked at first glance. People in general, 469 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,920 Speaker 1: as we know, tend to dislike change, especially if we 470 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:06,480 Speaker 1: feel a nostalgic or emotional relationship with the status quo. 471 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 1: So this this cracked me up. I hope we all 472 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: enjoy this too. In one of the taste tests facts 473 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,439 Speaker 1: or Takeaways, they found that somewhere around ten to twelve 474 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: percent of customers weren't just saying they didn't like this 475 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 1: new flavor. They said they were deeply angry at the 476 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 1: idea that anybody would replace Coca Cola. They felt personally offended. 477 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 1: They would stop drinking the stuff entirely if this crap 478 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: was going to be the new flavor. That's a very 479 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 1: visceral reaction to something as you know, mundane as soda pop. 480 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,639 Speaker 2: But still most people said that they you know, the 481 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,679 Speaker 2: focus group types would they would accept the change, though 482 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,399 Speaker 2: they also said it would take you know a little 483 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 2: time to get used to. 484 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. And we know that this data is again not 485 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: just coming from blind taste test, it's also coming from 486 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 1: surveys and focus groups, and marketing calculus at the time 487 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:16,480 Speaker 1: placed much more importance on the surveys, especially because they 488 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 1: were less negative than the taste test. So now they're 489 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,360 Speaker 1: armed with the information that works best for them. Our 490 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 1: pals Sergio and Brian are able to convince the ZX 491 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 1: to change Coke's Holy Grail formula in nineteen eighty five, 492 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 1: and in this conversation they also, by the way, downplayed 493 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 1: the repeated and consistent predictions of focus groups. Pretty much 494 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: every focus group they asked told them the general public 495 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 1: is not going to like it if you guys change 496 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 1: the recipe. If you tell them that you're changing something 497 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 1: they associate with, you know, roller skating rinks in summer 498 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: camp and fun times as a child, they're going to 499 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 1: hate you. What happens next has been reviewed, discussed, analyzed extensively, 500 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: and obsessed over for decades. It remains a standard topic 501 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: of study in business and marketing schools even today. So 502 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 1: the first big discussion after green lighting this idea of 503 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 1: what would become called new Coke was whether we make 504 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 1: it a replacement entirely for the old stuff, or whether 505 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 1: we make it a new, separate addition to Coke's roster. Right, 506 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 1: we know stuff like this, It already happened recently. Diet 507 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 1: Coke came out in nineteen eighty two. Side note, diet 508 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 1: Pepsi came out in nineteen sixty four, well late to 509 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 1: the game there, guys. But these bodily associates of Coke 510 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 1: Proper were already really pod that they had to make 511 00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 1: diet coke. It threw off their whole production process. And 512 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: so a lot of these companies had already sued Coca 513 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 1: Cola over syrup price fixing, which we didn't know was 514 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 1: a thing, and the situation was getting even stickier with 515 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 1: the rollout of Cherry coke. Yeah, they were divided in 516 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 1: the boardroom from the beginning. Some members of management were 517 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,719 Speaker 1: concerned that this would be a win for Pepsi if 518 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 1: they had two separate versions. 519 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 2: Of coke, and this, you know, immediately creates a problem 520 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 2: of brand dilution and this idea of you know, just 521 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:39,360 Speaker 2: confusing the public, confusing their customers and cannibalizing their own sales. 522 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 2: But Sergio and Brian did have support from the CEO. 523 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, the King is on your side. It turns out 524 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 1: that our pal Roberto we mentioned that he had a 525 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 1: background in the Bahamas. He's from Cuba. Originally he said, 526 00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 1: hang on, I've tried something like this in the past. 527 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,680 Speaker 1: Back in the early days of my career as a cokeman, 528 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 1: I ran the Bahamas subsidiary, and we looked into local preferences. 529 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,240 Speaker 1: We tweaked the flavors slightly, and when we did that, 530 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:17,480 Speaker 1: we significantly improved sales in that market. So, you guys, 531 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 1: says Robertel, I'm all about refinement and replacement. It worked 532 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,040 Speaker 1: before for me, so why can't it work now on 533 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 1: a larger scale. He argued, the company needs to make 534 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 1: the change not an addition to the product line, but 535 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 1: a full replacement. And he says, we're not doing it 536 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 1: in secret, We're doing it publicly. It is new coke 537 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,959 Speaker 1: or no coke. And we're also we're gonna have different 538 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,720 Speaker 1: packages and we'll have a little line that says new 539 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 1: exclamation mark on the label. That's where we get the 540 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: street name new Coke. 541 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 2: Exactly new coke. Hets the market on April twenty third, 542 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty five, and that same week Coke stops production 543 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:03,760 Speaker 2: oof of the original formula. For a while, new coke 544 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 2: was sold in the same coke packaging. The bottlers still 545 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 2: had left over labels, cartons and cans, and there was 546 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 2: a huge press conference in New York City to announce 547 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 2: this initiative. However, it did not go well. PEPSI was 548 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 2: likely responsible for this. Feeding reporters you know, uncomfortable questions, 549 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,600 Speaker 2: guait Sueta pointed out Coke's original formula had been altered 550 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,080 Speaker 2: in the past. This was not anything new, he said, 551 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 2: specifically back in nineteen thirty five to get Kosher certification. However, 552 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 2: he wouldn't acknowledge taste tests as their motivation because that 553 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,479 Speaker 2: would have implied the first formula wasn't like, you know, 554 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 2: the American classic that everyone knew and loved to begin with. Instead, 555 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 2: he got defensive, which is never a good. 556 00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 1: Look with reporters. 557 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, wow, you know, it seems like it's 558 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 2: part of the course these days, but still a lot 559 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 2: of good look and especially if you're you know, it's 560 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 2: like it's like someone's saying, you're just not getting what 561 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 2: I'm what I'm my vision is here. 562 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 1: You know, you're a nasty woman. You should smile more. 563 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 1: Uh uh, We're not here to villify Roberto. You guys 564 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 1: know who we're talking about. 565 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 2: Instead. 566 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:23,960 Speaker 1: Uh So, one of these reporters asked him if diet 567 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 1: Coke would also be reformulated if assuming new Coke is 568 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:35,600 Speaker 1: a success, and our CEO flipped out. He famously replied, no, 569 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 1: and I didn't assume that this is a success. This 570 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 1: is a success. 571 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 2: Oh no, man, just because you say it is, I 572 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:46,120 Speaker 2: doesn't doesn't mean it is. 573 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 3: I mean, what's a more successful route of ever proving 574 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,320 Speaker 3: somebody wrong than just vehemently denying the truth. 575 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,280 Speaker 2: Well again, we're seeing quite a lot of that these days, 576 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 2: and it's crazy making. But here's the thing. 577 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:05,560 Speaker 1: For time, New Coke was indeed a success story until 578 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:10,319 Speaker 1: it wasn't. And with that we're going to pause. We 579 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,120 Speaker 1: can't wait to get to the second leader of this 580 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:18,719 Speaker 1: two liter episode. Please tune in for the the crazy 581 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 1: part of the story in our second part of the 582 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,200 Speaker 1: Bizarre Saga of New Coke. Big big thanks or super 583 00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:29,799 Speaker 1: producer mister Max Williams, Big thanks to Oh gosh, does 584 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,080 Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland ak the Twister drink Coca Cola? 585 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:34,799 Speaker 2: Does you know? 586 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,160 Speaker 3: I mean probably an Arcy Cola fan? 587 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 2: I bet he is. 588 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:41,960 Speaker 1: Wow, everybody's catching strays today. 589 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:44,839 Speaker 2: No, it's true, ARSI call is not the worst. It's 590 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:47,960 Speaker 2: just it's just like kind of generic. It's just generic, 591 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 2: and everything's generic compared to Coke Classic, especially New Coke. 592 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:53,279 Speaker 3: Okay, now I got a better one. I got better 593 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,600 Speaker 3: Jonathan Strickland goes to the world of coke so you 594 00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:58,520 Speaker 3: can stand there and only drink Beverly. 595 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 1: Oh, he loves bever Beverly is terrible. Yeah, that's the 596 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 1: correct answer. I almost spat out my coke zero for 597 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 1: anybody who doesn't know. Beverly is best described as a 598 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:16,040 Speaker 1: war crime. That you can drink it is. I think 599 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:19,040 Speaker 1: it's a digestive or yeah, it's a digestive. 600 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:23,320 Speaker 2: I think taste like for net hmm, okay, so liquid 601 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 2: tube paste. It's just terrible. Yeah, not good. And that 602 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:28,960 Speaker 2: is something that you can I believe still to this day. 603 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 2: Sample at the Coke Museum here in Atlanta, the World 604 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:32,040 Speaker 2: of Coke. 605 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,479 Speaker 1: Yes, that's the way they ruin in the field trip 606 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:40,480 Speaker 1: for countless school children. Your faithful correspondents include it. Speaking 607 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,600 Speaker 1: to a correspondent's Big Big thanks to doctor Rachel Big 608 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,880 Speaker 1: Spinach Lance, as well as the rude Dudes of Ridiculous Crime. 609 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:51,280 Speaker 2: Huge thanks to aj Bahamas, Jacobs, the Puzzler, and Jonathan 610 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:54,879 Speaker 2: Strickland aka the Quizzer, as well as us Jeff Coats 611 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:56,320 Speaker 2: and Christophroscio. Is here in spirit. 612 00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 1: All right, folks, crack open a cold one for us. 613 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:09,000 Speaker 2: Will be back see you next time, folks. For more 614 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,560 Speaker 2: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 615 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:14,680 Speaker 2: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.