1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:25,639 Speaker 1: production of My Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called 6 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our superproducer Paul 7 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: Mission controlled decond. Most importantly, you are you. You are here, 8 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 1: and that makes this the stuff they don't want you 9 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: to know quick. But let's get into this with some 10 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: questions today, fellow conspiracy realists, have you yourself ever witnessed injustice? 11 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 1: Have you ever regrettably seen the law fumble the ball 12 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 1: of what is right and good? And if so, how 13 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: are would things have to escalate before you decided to 14 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:07,759 Speaker 1: take matters into your own hands. These are questions we're 15 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: tackling today, and perhaps most importantly, at the very top, 16 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 1: here you have to establish This episode may not be 17 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 1: appropriate for all listeners, as it contains at times graphic 18 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 1: descriptions of violets, but here are the facts in an 19 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:31,759 Speaker 1: earlier episode episodes. In fact, we've established a long history 20 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: of drug cartels and gang activity throughout Latin America. And 21 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: in many cases these organizations have essentially almost replaced the 22 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: official authorities become this almost kind of like extra military, 23 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: extra governmental force UM, imposing their own sort of lawless 24 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: rule of law, or at the very least paying off 25 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: officials to the point of rendering them completely douthless. Uh. 26 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: It's very often very scary place to live if you're 27 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: not playing ball with these cartels. And this can happen 28 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: for several reasons, due to corruption, threats, shows of force, 29 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:13,919 Speaker 1: you know, UM making examples out of anyone who dare 30 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: not play ball with the cartels, and brutal displays of 31 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:21,920 Speaker 1: horrific violence. But almost always UM it is one or 32 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 1: all of these three things. And we also established that 33 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 1: these organizations can function in a lot of different ways, 34 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: not just some kind of lawless entity, or at least 35 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: maybe that's a a portion of it or a segment 36 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: of it. The other parts often can provide things that 37 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 1: a government cannot or will not, like everything from education 38 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: and organizational education systems to like positive things for a community, 39 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: which is it's a very weird thing to wrap your 40 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 1: head around, though that is not always the case. Sure, Yeah, 41 00:02:55,520 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: and we see this in other organized criminal enterprises. Around world. Uh, 42 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 1: the Mafia has provided disaster assistance before, as has the Alcuza. 43 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 1: Of course. You know, you can make a pretty valid 44 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: argument that in many cases those positive actions are kind 45 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 1: of a pr push. I mean they they help people 46 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: for sure in the short term, but they also inculcate 47 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 1: the criminal element further into the community. It in trenches 48 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: deeper and deeper, and often there is a profit motive there, 49 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, they're always strings attached. Uh. Look, 50 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: it's also even if something isn't at that level, if 51 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 1: it's not quite an organization that's reached you know, cartels 52 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: corporation level. There are certain areas or neighborhoods where the 53 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: police simply will not to go. Now, in the US, 54 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: it's not uncommon for there to be parts of parts 55 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: of a city or a town where police response is 56 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: typically gonna be less reliable. Right, that's a common complaint. 57 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: But it may surprise people who haven't travel to different 58 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: parts of the world that there are there are some 59 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: places that pretty much do not have rule of law 60 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: unless there's a show of force level situation like uh, 61 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 1: like before the Pope visits Brazil, having the militarized police 62 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 1: roll through the favelas and just go to town cleaning 63 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 1: the place out. We also see that to your point, Matt, 64 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 1: there are there are Look, they're they're just really dangerous 65 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 1: parts of the world, and um in many and there's 66 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: not a ding against the people living there. Actually most 67 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: people are really really nice. But if you if you travel, 68 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 1: what you'll see is that often there are also places 69 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 1: where law enforcement seems uninterested in helping you or unable 70 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:20,280 Speaker 1: to help protect civilians. And you know, I'm sure, I'm 71 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 1: sure many of us listening to have a story about 72 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:26,719 Speaker 1: this low level graft. Right. Sometimes, you know, it's often 73 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: been said the police can be their own kind of gang. 74 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: That will be interesting for today because I've been in 75 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 1: different countries in Central America specifically, where bribery is not uncommon, 76 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 1: and if you make a stink about it, then you're 77 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: just gonna make it worse. Who are you gonna like 78 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 1: a police officer ask you for a bribe? Right? Who 79 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:54,600 Speaker 1: who are you going to report them to the police? Right? 80 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 1: That doesn't work at every country, news flash. And if 81 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 1: if you're someone who can corrupt law enforcement for stuff 82 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: like that, then odds are you're already a fairly powerful individual, 83 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: which means the police in some cases may already work 84 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 1: for you. You know, you're just bribing him a different way. 85 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: So with all this together, we see a mix, a sinister, 86 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 1: dangerous mix of this stuff in the Central American nation 87 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: of El Salvador. Um. If anybody has been to El Salvador, 88 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: then you know, one of the first things to say 89 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 1: about it before we talk about the story, is that 90 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: it is a beautiful It's a physically beautiful place. Uh. 91 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: It's been called the Land of Smiles, and it's been 92 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: through a lot of terrible things in recent decades. Yeah, 93 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:55,600 Speaker 1: in particular the the civil war that occurred there and 94 00:06:55,760 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 1: lasted for twelve years. It started in and until so 95 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: not that long ago, when a massive civil war occurred there. Uh, 96 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: and you know it as a civil war, there were 97 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: a ton of casually seventy five thousand I think it's 98 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: estimated people who died during the civil war. That's both 99 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: combatants and non combatants. And on top of that seventy 100 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 1: five thousand, there's another eight thousand that the u N 101 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: estimates or that number is an estimate from the UN 102 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 1: They estimate those people just disappeared. So eight thousand people 103 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: that just vanished, which we can imagine what happened to them, Yeah, exactly, 104 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: and a lot of like many many people fled the insanity, 105 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: and that plays another big part in the story. We're 106 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: laying groundwork. These were terrifying days. Okay, there's no other 107 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 1: way around it. Child soldiers, Uh, mass torture, mass murder, 108 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: sexual assault, you name it. Looking back, estimates landed on 109 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 1: some some ballpark numbers. So this is a war between um. 110 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: A series of groups of resistance would be probably best 111 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: known as f m L in the Federal Bundo Barti 112 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: National Liberation Front. They apparently committed and estimated five percent 113 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: in the murders against civilians, and the Salvadoran armed forces 114 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:34,200 Speaker 1: and paramilitary death squads were responsible for at least another 115 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 1: eight percent. The other ten percent remains unknown today. That's 116 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 1: a sense of perspective. We're not choosing good guys or 117 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 1: bad guys here, um, even though I do think some 118 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 1: of the responsibility for these actions lays at the door 119 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: of the US and will also be important to remember this. 120 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 1: So this mass exodus, uh, you know, it's not as 121 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: if for much of the war, it's not as if Uh, 122 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: family in El Salvador could just go to Guatemala, an 123 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: adjacent country. Because around the same time, Guatemala is in 124 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 1: the midst of a civil war, one that doesn't end 125 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: until nineteen So many people did whatever necessary to escape 126 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 1: the chaos and try to protect their loved ones, and 127 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 1: a lot of them ended up in the United States, 128 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles in particular. The descendants of some of 129 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: these families would go on to form street gangs for 130 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: their own protection, and these would evolve into groups like 131 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 1: MS thirteen. Then there's also eight Street sometimes called like 132 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 1: Kaya teen or Baryo eighteen. Uh these groups have become 133 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 1: bitter rivals. I do want to point out one thing 134 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 1: that sometimes gets missed when talking about uh Mada Sava 135 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 1: or MS thirteen is that they started out as just 136 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 1: a bunch of kids who liked heavy metal music and 137 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 1: getting high together and just smoked weed and hung out. 138 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 1: And you know, a lot of the a lot of 139 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 1: the things that happened that played a role in the 140 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 1: evolution of this group were thrust upon them by the 141 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:24,680 Speaker 1: hostile environment of of Los Angeles, which has always been 142 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:28,439 Speaker 1: pretty brutal to the disadvantaged. Yeah, we'll think about that. 143 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: You've got this max mass exodus from El Salvador. A 144 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 1: lot of these people who are showing up our young 145 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:39,199 Speaker 1: men who uh are not allowed to get a job 146 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 1: unless you go through this arduous process and then you 147 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 1: can only get a job for a certain amount of time. 148 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: Maybe they don't have the skills they need to get 149 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 1: the jobs that are available. These guys faced, as you said, 150 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: been the problems that already existed in Los Angeles when 151 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: it comes to the economy and just the laws that 152 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: they were subject to now being in the United States. Yeah, 153 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:01,959 Speaker 1: and also there this is not a pop reference. They're 154 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 1: also the new kids on the block. They're going into 155 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 1: areas where there is some existing gang activity, right, and 156 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 1: they're going into those areas as the other right. It's 157 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:18,679 Speaker 1: not it's not as if there uh and this this 158 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 1: is a shame, it's a reality. It's not as if you, 159 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: as a kid from El Salvador going into a neighborhood 160 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 1: that is largely Mexican. It's not as if you are 161 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 1: necessarily going to be welcomed with open arms. Is one 162 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: of the in group you will be seen as coming 163 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: from Afar and a lot of their There are tons 164 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 1: of really powerful and really effective nonprofit groups that have 165 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:51,719 Speaker 1: have fought against the structural weaknesses that helped create gangs 166 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 1: and have fought to unify society in a in a 167 00:11:56,600 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 1: more productive way. But this doesn't stop the elpment of 168 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: these gangs we're talking about. Throughout the nines, MS thirteen 169 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 1: expands with the help of other prominent gangs, and they 170 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 1: do gang stuff. You know, they go gangland. We're talking 171 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: about protection, rackets, extortion, you know, uh, gang crime. Right, 172 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: Like everybody wants respect, no one's willing to give it, 173 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 1: So people end up shooting each other. And you can 174 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 1: see some documentaries that are pretty granular about what becomes 175 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:35,560 Speaker 1: about the causes behind the great rivalry which is MS 176 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 1: thirteen and the street gang. I just want to put 177 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: out there. Also, they get into things that you know 178 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:47,439 Speaker 1: are it's the black markets, right, So since they can't 179 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:52,320 Speaker 1: operate legally, the larger groups once once they have capital 180 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: or money that they've made in some way, or they 181 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,959 Speaker 1: pull money and they have capital, rather than being able 182 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,200 Speaker 1: to invest that money or put it into a business 183 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 1: or anything like that, they have to just take that 184 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:02,439 Speaker 1: money and find a way to make more money out 185 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: of it. So they they there's a necessity to resort 186 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 1: to the black market sector, which are things like drug 187 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 1: trafficking and sex work. Uh. And it's just it's it's 188 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 1: so weird to look at it from that forty thou 189 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 1: foot view and see that it's it was inevitable that 190 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 1: that was going to happen unless there was some kind 191 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: of program specifically designed or in place when you have 192 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: a bunch of people coming in like that, um like 193 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:32,559 Speaker 1: to to help them almost get started on a pathway 194 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: a transition plan. Yeah, yeah, I know, it makes sense. 195 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 1: So so one of the key things to remember, and 196 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,679 Speaker 1: you don't see it when a lot of the current 197 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: activities of groups like MS their tier reported. One of 198 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 1: the key things to remember said in the beginning, this 199 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:52,599 Speaker 1: was a matter of self preservation for these people. And 200 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:55,719 Speaker 1: then there's another thing that occurs, and this is all 201 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:57,719 Speaker 1: there's a lot of history we're throwing at you, but 202 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 1: promise it matters. So the US has cyclical immigration scares, right, 203 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 1: and these immigration scares often occur when a politician wants 204 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: to distract from another problem or when they need to 205 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 1: kind of uh whip up and foment some discord, give 206 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: people something to be angry about. Uh, it's cynical, but 207 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 1: it's true. And as crime is escalating and as the 208 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: Clinton administration is looking for looking at the big picture 209 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 1: political numbers, UH, they come up with this plan to 210 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 1: deport a lot of these folks. If you get caught 211 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 1: commanding gang activity and you know you've got the MS 212 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 1: thirteen or the eighteen tattoos they're uh, then they will 213 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: just escalate your deportation. So over um let's starts in 214 00:14:56,160 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: the middle late nineties and then it kind of continues 215 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 1: and estimated twenty thousand criminals were deported back to Central 216 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 1: American countries between two thousand and two thousand and four, 217 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: so thousands of people come back. In the case of 218 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: El Salvador, many of them are returning to a country 219 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: that has pretty recently survived the horrors of a civil war, 220 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: right the same one that their parents UH fled, And 221 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: now the infrastructure is trashed in many places, there aren't 222 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: transition plans, there aren't job opportunities, things like that. So 223 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 1: the UH, these gang organizations continue what they were doing before. 224 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: They take the lessons learned and they franchise out and 225 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 1: they find no shortage of kids who are good material 226 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 1: to be recruited. MS thirteen actually struggles a little bit 227 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: because Body of eighteen, the eighteenth Street Gang is a 228 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 1: little more open about membership, like it's okay if you 229 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 1: are a different um, if you have different racial characteristics, 230 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 1: or if you're from a different country something like that. So, uh, 231 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: they tend they start spreading throughout Central America, and MS 232 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: thirteen is spreading as well, just in a different way. 233 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 1: And you know, of course Salvador had a violence problem. 234 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: It didn't disappear just because the war officially ended. I mean, 235 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: I know, history textbooks kind of painted like that for 236 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: a lot of students, Like you hear about the Emancipation 237 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 1: Proclamation when you're in school in the US, but you 238 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: don't read probably about the prison system that came right after. 239 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: You probably don't read about the people who were uh, 240 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: who had restricted information access, who didn't learn they were 241 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: free until you know, years or decades later. The paperwork 242 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 1: is nice and it's important, but it's not the same 243 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:02,239 Speaker 1: thing as the reality on the ground. So for several decades, 244 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 1: Al Salvador has become and maintains the reputation of being 245 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 1: the most violent country in the world that wasn't currently 246 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:14,920 Speaker 1: officially at war. In fact, the US State Department reported 247 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: El Salvador had the highest rates of homicide up until 248 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:23,120 Speaker 1: and that's in the entire world, correct, correct, Yeah, And 249 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 1: that's uh. You know, whenever you hear these kind of 250 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: numbers whipped out on a global scale, you have to 251 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 1: ask for the source. Yeah, the U. S State Department 252 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 1: has some agendas of its own, but also the problems 253 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:40,119 Speaker 1: are are clear. Right, there is not a war, and 254 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 1: this is the most violent place where there is not 255 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:48,400 Speaker 1: currently a war. The streets become overrun in different areas 256 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:54,719 Speaker 1: by violent gangs that are ruling through murder, torture, widespread 257 00:17:54,760 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: sexual crime, and more. And when we say ruling this way, 258 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 1: you have to understand there are parts of like um 259 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:04,879 Speaker 1: part of our story takes place with the sun, Miguel, 260 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:09,200 Speaker 1: there are also parts of sense solved, or where people 261 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:12,440 Speaker 1: going to work, like to get on the bus would 262 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:15,439 Speaker 1: pass a kid and they would have to give this 263 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 1: kid the equivalent of a dollar. Not because the kid 264 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: was a really great beggar. He was the little tax man. 265 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:26,920 Speaker 1: He's the lookout. He's a trainee for eighteenth Street or 266 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: MS thirteen. And if you don't give him that dollar, 267 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:35,679 Speaker 1: then the people he works for will come ruin your life, 268 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: and you also have to pay a protection racket unless 269 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:41,959 Speaker 1: you can pay for your own pretty top notch bodyguards. 270 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:44,920 Speaker 1: I'll think about how horrifying that situation is, because it's 271 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 1: not like that kid in that moment. Besides, he's going 272 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 1: to kill you for not you know, paying the money 273 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 1: to him. That little kid goes in reports to somebody, 274 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 1: Oh you know, here's a list of the people that 275 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,959 Speaker 1: didn't pay me today, right, Uh, or you know this 276 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:03,160 Speaker 1: is what that's what. Oh, that's the guy that didn't 277 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 1: pay me, and just pointing someone out right. I mean, 278 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:08,639 Speaker 1: you just imagine like this is a child that is 279 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 1: basically going to snitch on everybody for not paying, and 280 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:16,919 Speaker 1: a gang is like it may murder you for not paying, 281 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 1: or at least beat you up, or may hurt someone 282 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 1: close to you to get you to pay. Uh, And 283 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 1: in there may I just I'm imagining all the instances 284 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:30,160 Speaker 1: of mistaken identity in that system where you know, you're 285 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:34,680 Speaker 1: just trusting one a child essentially to decide or figure 286 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: out who's paid and who hasn't. Right, Honestly, similar to 287 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 1: the way authoritarian regimes enlist children to spy on parents. 288 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:50,440 Speaker 1: It's it's messed up. So another group emerges amidst all 289 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:57,160 Speaker 1: this chaos, and police and civilians and gangs like start 290 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:02,719 Speaker 1: to recognize some signs. It starts with warnings graffiti spray 291 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 1: painted places, things like gangs are animals. And then the 292 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 1: graffiti is near scenes of violence unattributed and people don't 293 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:16,200 Speaker 1: recognize the signs yet just yet. Uh. It starts near 294 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:22,359 Speaker 1: known gang run areas. Then the pamphlets come and then 295 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 1: sophisticated brutal hits targeting gang members. This group, which is anonymous, 296 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: highly trained, and so far officially at least untraceable, had 297 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,440 Speaker 1: a message for MS thirteen and the eight Street Gang alike, 298 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: The Sambra Negra, the Black Shadow has returned. Will pause 299 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: for word from our sponsor and return ourselves. Here's where 300 00:20:55,760 --> 00:21:01,640 Speaker 1: it gets crazy. The Sambra Negra inning English, the Black Shadow. 301 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: This group has a history, They have a past. They 302 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: first get mentioned in nine towards the close of the 303 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: Civil War. Yeah, if you want to think about this group, 304 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: imagine maybe ex soldiers. Uh like, maybe that's that's a 305 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 1: good way. It's not all. They're not all ex soldiers, 306 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:29,360 Speaker 1: but imagine an ex soldier and their identities. They're not proven. 307 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 1: We gotta say that, Yeah, exactly, I just imagine it 308 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: highly trained individual right in the art of war and death. 309 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: Uh that that's an individual member of this group. But 310 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:47,439 Speaker 1: they are. When they operate. They don things like balaclava's, 311 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 1: you know, maybe some kind of armor, black clothing. They 312 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 1: operate with military tactics, whether they're ex military or not. Uh. 313 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:03,919 Speaker 1: They perform all kinds of surveillance, intense and sophisticated surveillance 314 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 1: on the people that they're going to target. And I 315 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: don't admit I just imagined them as a a fully 316 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 1: paramilitary group. Yeah, I mean they have, they have ops set. 317 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 1: They also incorporate, uh, incorporate gang tactics. So so the 318 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 1: people who are conducting operations on behalf of the Sandra 319 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 1: are they've definitely learned from somewhere. At least in my opinion, 320 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: this all points to professional training. It's not just a 321 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:40,679 Speaker 1: bunch of civilians who got mad and took out, you know, 322 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: the pistols and shotguns and put on stocking caps. No, 323 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,919 Speaker 1: they're also using assault weapon. They're using stuff that the 324 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 1: average resident of El Salvador would probably have a have 325 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: a tough time getting right in an organized way and 326 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: it's almost like they went to a school somewhere. Ben. Yeah, 327 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 1: well let's see, we'll we'll get to it later. Yes, 328 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 1: but yes, that's excellent foreshadowing, So agreed, paramilitary they seem 329 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 1: to have been taught somewhere, which we'll get to But second, 330 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 1: why call it a death squad? Well, to be honest, Uh, 331 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:22,679 Speaker 1: it's called a death squad because from the jump, Las 332 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 1: Sombra has never really been out to just arrest people, 333 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:30,640 Speaker 1: and they're not exactly in the parking lot ticket game still, um, 334 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:36,400 Speaker 1: they are always targeting new members. So for some civilians, 335 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 1: as we had mentioned at the top of the show, 336 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 1: this can be a very complicated proposition by Sombra. Negra 337 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 1: had stated that it killed seventeen individuals, all gang members 338 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:55,960 Speaker 1: or other criminals, so essentially vigilante action um, which would 339 00:23:55,960 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: appear to be unaccountable to anyone but other members of 340 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:04,239 Speaker 1: of this criminal organization Le Sombre. After a time, the 341 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:09,359 Speaker 1: organization took a step back into the shadows and didn't 342 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: come back out for several years. Um. During that time, 343 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:18,680 Speaker 1: they quickly became, as far as anyone could tell, essentially 344 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,679 Speaker 1: just the top of the food chain. Apex predator in 345 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:26,920 Speaker 1: the criminal underworld of El Salvador. Yeah, it was quite 346 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,199 Speaker 1: a bit of time, wasn't it been when they were 347 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: like gone or not active, or they they at least 348 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 1: weren't putting out their calling card if they were active, right. 349 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:41,920 Speaker 1: And it's confusing because there were multiple especially as gang 350 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 1: violence escalates, there were multiple death squads. There were multiple 351 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 1: death squads in the time of the Civil War. Uh. 352 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 1: You will see reports of suspected or proven gang members 353 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,640 Speaker 1: being targeted by a number of groups, and they may 354 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 1: later claim responsibility or they may, you know, sombre style 355 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 1: have like graffiti or some other indicator, but it looks 356 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:17,400 Speaker 1: like Lo Sambra Negra itself went went away, got into 357 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,960 Speaker 1: the shadows. But again, because it's a bit of a 358 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,960 Speaker 1: black box, it is also possible that that group may 359 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 1: have splintered, right, they may have gone and done their 360 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 1: own things. But anyway, every so often this thing hauling 361 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 1: itself Lo Sombra Negra would re emerge, and authorities were 362 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:45,879 Speaker 1: more likely to believe these groups, these murderers or vigilantes 363 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 1: when they claimed to be La Sambra, because Le Sambra 364 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: had signature techniques which were also have a bit of 365 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:03,400 Speaker 1: providence behind them when impossible impossible. They didn't really do 366 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,360 Speaker 1: super quick hits. Part of it was about sending a message, 367 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 1: so the opportunity was right, they would take their time, 368 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 1: like you said, Matt, they would case. They had pretty 369 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:24,640 Speaker 1: good surveillance. They were pretty good at maintaining anonymity. Balaclava's 370 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:32,719 Speaker 1: dark windowed, unregistered, unmarked cars, you name it. And when 371 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 1: they get their victims, and of course these gang members 372 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: had multiple victims of their own, right, let's remember that. 373 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:42,119 Speaker 1: But when they got ahold of their victims, they would 374 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: blindfold them and they might bind their feet at the ankles. 375 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 1: They would always tie either the hands or the thumbs 376 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:58,440 Speaker 1: behind the person's back. Here you might ask why tie 377 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: the thumbs? If you're on YouTube, I'm doing this, it's 378 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 1: like a very lazy Wu tang sign. Why why tie 379 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 1: the thumbs instead of just binding the hands at the wrist. Well, 380 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,160 Speaker 1: it's a little bit easier to do some stress positions. 381 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 1: And look at me panicking, like me trying to panic. Here, 382 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 1: Look how my hands splay out. And that's eight different 383 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,880 Speaker 1: questions you can ask. And you can see what they're 384 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 1: doing there when they're interrogating somebody that they've caught, right, 385 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 1: what what do you think they're getting out of that person? 386 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 1: Probably information about their next hit, right yep. Or it 387 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,680 Speaker 1: may simply be retaliation because they have proof of something. 388 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 1: A scary thing to happen during an interrogation is for 389 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 1: ordering a torture. H situation is for the torturer or 390 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:56,200 Speaker 1: interrogator to say, just as you know, I don't really care, 391 00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,399 Speaker 1: I don't care what you're gonna say, we have the 392 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 1: information in the next couple of hours, or just for us, 393 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,879 Speaker 1: thanks for coming. Uh. That kind of stuff does happen, 394 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 1: but this does like to be part interrogation, part torture. Yeah, 395 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:14,919 Speaker 1: they're gathering more intelligence, which is again is kind of 396 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:19,199 Speaker 1: a signature move. But this torture, which must stress, has 397 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 1: never been proven in a court of law. It's just 398 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,400 Speaker 1: evidenced on the bodies that have been found. This includes 399 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 1: stuff like the removal of tongue, teeth, fingers, toes, hands, genitalia. 400 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,119 Speaker 1: And then the final move the sign off. One of 401 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:40,520 Speaker 1: the sign off, it's not quite a calling card because 402 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 1: those are the messages they leave, but the move they're 403 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 1: known for that really identifies it to the authorities as 404 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: lessambra is something called the Tiros de Gracia, the shots 405 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 1: of Grace. So after this torture, the victim is shot 406 00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: in the base of a skull, and it's gonna be 407 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 1: pretty messy because they're using like M sixteens, using machine guns, 408 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 1: assault rifles, um. And it's, you know, quite believable at 409 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:15,560 Speaker 1: this point, without having spoken to anyone who survived that, 410 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: because none of them did, it's quite believable at that 411 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:20,720 Speaker 1: point that it is seen as an act of mercy 412 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: by the person who's finally getting this horror show ended well. 413 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 1: And it's also a way to show like it was us, right, 414 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 1: and that's not the only way they show it was us. 415 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 1: Besides the torture and that final shot, they also leave 416 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:39,560 Speaker 1: like written messages, often on a wall nearby, and they 417 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 1: say things from like ranging from just the name Assambra negra, 418 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 1: something else about the shadow, or often a very specific 419 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: message about the person that's like derogatory, calling that person, 420 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 1: you know, stupid, idiotic, other other things like that what 421 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 1: was that you found a specific one? This idiot suffered 422 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,959 Speaker 1: a slow death. There are a couple of ways who 423 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: interpret it. Maybe the body through that person was an 424 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: idiot because they were involved in in a gang. Oh. 425 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 1: By the way, even at some point, if you're a 426 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: reformed gang member, you still have the tattoos, you're still 427 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 1: in trouble, right. But also idiot could have just meant 428 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 1: that they said, look, will kill you quickly if you 429 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 1: tell us what we need to know, and they said, 430 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 1: I'm not telling you anything, and then just made everybody's 431 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:39,320 Speaker 1: night a little longer. Yeah, definitely rain of terror. UM. 432 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: So where are they now? Where have Lessambre gone over 433 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 1: the decades since the Civil war? UM, They've made a 434 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 1: few sporadic appearances, almost seeming to respond to specific gang 435 00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:00,480 Speaker 1: activities or just to maintain their presence in the minds 436 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 1: of their victims. I m s. Thirteen and eighteenth Street. UM. 437 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 1: I don't want them to get too comfortable. Right. And 438 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: while many folks assumed UH that they were working with 439 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: the National Civil Police or PNC, there still were a 440 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 1: few arrests of Les Ambre members UM, and the United 441 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: States UH takes this view, UM, saying quote in a statement. 442 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 1: In July nine, sixteen alleged members of the Sombra Negra 443 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 1: were arrested in San Miguel, including four ranking PNC officers 444 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 1: in that department. UH. In November, seven were set free, 445 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 1: including two of the police officials, by a San Miguel court, 446 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 1: which said there was a lack of evidence. In June, 447 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 1: six more were cleared of murder charges, including the other 448 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,440 Speaker 1: two police officials. The remaining three were tried and found 449 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 1: innocent of murder in April nineteen ninety seven. Wow, so arrested. 450 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:02,960 Speaker 1: No one gets convicted of Eventually, despite this lack of convictions, 451 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 1: the National Civil Police the p n C say, okay, 452 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 1: the Black Shadow has been dismantled. Wink uh. And also 453 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 1: we have to indicate, you know, there's for for some locals, uh, 454 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 1: the the Black Chadow is tremendously popular. It's seen as 455 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: doing what the police either can't or won't do, which 456 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,720 Speaker 1: is protected the public. Uh. And then, as we said, 457 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 1: in the years that follow after this, other anti gang 458 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:42,240 Speaker 1: death squads claim responsibility for various hits. They're not considered 459 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 1: the work of the Sandra but um. But maybe maybe 460 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 1: there was a different name or different branding because of 461 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 1: things like that court case. At least this is the 462 00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 1: lay of the land until twenty team. That's when everything changed. 463 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 1: We're going to pause for a word from our sponsors 464 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:17,560 Speaker 1: and we'll return. There are a couple of gang members 465 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 1: together in in a suburb and there it's seven of them, 466 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 1: and they're not having a wild gang banger night. They're 467 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 1: not planning to maybe like do a hit. They're not 468 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 1: engaged in some sort of trafficking thing. Get this, They 469 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 1: got together for a movie night. It's seven seven gang 470 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 1: members who are just at a house and they decided, yeah, 471 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 1: to have some bro time and watch a movie. When 472 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 1: some unmarked cars are quietly rolling up, a group of 473 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:55,520 Speaker 1: armed men masked up dressed in black, armed with him sixteens, 474 00:33:56,160 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 1: pops into the home and then instantly begins firing. Three 475 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:06,440 Speaker 1: escape the four others are bound, beaten and executed, ultimately 476 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,040 Speaker 1: with that shot of grace at the base of the skull. 477 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 1: A few days later, the flyers returned as well. The 478 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:17,160 Speaker 1: message was clear las Umbra was back. Yeah. And when 479 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,839 Speaker 1: they put those flyers out, it wasn't like, hey, look 480 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 1: what we did. It was a list where it included 481 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 1: a list of other known gang members in the area. 482 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,640 Speaker 1: Like it was a message we're coming for you. Like 483 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:37,719 Speaker 1: that's that's that's scary. Uh, that's really scary, and it's 484 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,720 Speaker 1: it's purposefully that way. Yeah. In some cases, I heard, 485 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,520 Speaker 1: so this tactic was applied multiple times in some reports. 486 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:49,240 Speaker 1: Uh I had heard there would just be flyers posted 487 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,440 Speaker 1: that didn't say anything. It's just the list of names. 488 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,399 Speaker 1: And if you're and you would know that these are 489 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,920 Speaker 1: gang members, if that you had lived in the community 490 00:34:57,960 --> 00:34:59,799 Speaker 1: for a long time, or if you yourself wory gang 491 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 1: mem but for everybody else, imagine you are walking somewhere 492 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:11,480 Speaker 1: right in your neighborhood and you probably wouldn't clock it 493 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 1: when you see the first flyer and it's just a 494 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 1: list of like twelve names. But then you see the 495 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 1: second one, you know, and then you you see a 496 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,759 Speaker 1: third one, and you stop, maybe on the third or 497 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 1: fourth win to look and it's the it's just the same, 498 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 1: no explanation, just a list of names and boom, your 499 00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:38,880 Speaker 1: names on that list. That's spooky, right, Yeah. Well, and 500 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,719 Speaker 1: a lot of the people's names that were on the 501 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,040 Speaker 1: list were were people who had gone to the United 502 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:48,160 Speaker 1: States or have been in the United States following the 503 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:50,920 Speaker 1: Civil War. And then we're deported back to El Salvador. 504 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 1: So it's some of the you'd think. And I can't 505 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 1: confirm this, and I couldn't been looking through it, but 506 00:35:57,560 --> 00:35:59,759 Speaker 1: it seems to me that those are likely many of 507 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:04,479 Speaker 1: the early originators of maybe MS thirteen, at least within 508 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:09,520 Speaker 1: El Salvador, or at least early uh influential members. Yeah, 509 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 1: I mean I think there are. I think it's targeting. 510 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:16,879 Speaker 1: I think honestly, it could even go deeper than that, 511 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:24,240 Speaker 1: because it appears to imply, not proved, but imply the 512 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:31,400 Speaker 1: existence of communication between the sambre and the officials because 513 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:37,000 Speaker 1: they you know, if you are a normal person, a civilian, 514 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,080 Speaker 1: you're going to have a tough time getting a list 515 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,279 Speaker 1: of here a gain a list that reads, here are 516 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:47,759 Speaker 1: the people getting deported to this country, now they're coming 517 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,480 Speaker 1: to your town. Also, here are the ones that are 518 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:55,440 Speaker 1: specifically in gangs. And here's how we've documented that. It's proven, 519 00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:59,640 Speaker 1: we've done the work. You don't usually get that. You 520 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:04,000 Speaker 1: don't get that info az a civilians. So uh, there 521 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:08,919 Speaker 1: there are different accounts of people who had kind of reformed, right, 522 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 1: But even if you're reformed and you get deported, you 523 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 1: still have the tattoos. You are visibly a member of 524 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:24,759 Speaker 1: of the gang. One guy only escapes because he one 525 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:28,440 Speaker 1: of his friends, a local in the community tells him like, hey, 526 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:33,640 Speaker 1: they know you're here, who La Sambre Negra, which is 527 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,960 Speaker 1: you know, often reported as the only group MS thirteen 528 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,680 Speaker 1: and eighteen street fear and you you'll be given something 529 00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:44,080 Speaker 1: like forty eight hours to five days two g t 530 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:48,000 Speaker 1: f O. And it's pretty clear what happens if you stay, 531 00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:51,600 Speaker 1: because they're saying they already know your location, right. And 532 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:55,920 Speaker 1: there are also cases of people getting getting popped getting 533 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,880 Speaker 1: off the bus or after they the plane lands, like 534 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:06,080 Speaker 1: not making it the full, not not even making it home. Um, 535 00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:09,000 Speaker 1: this this is real stuff. And now there's you know, 536 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:14,480 Speaker 1: another another important tactic there is that they also allegedly, 537 00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:18,640 Speaker 1: again not provably, but allegedly took the social media through 538 00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 1: things like Facebook pages and fairly recently Twitter allegedly again yes, 539 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:30,279 Speaker 1: massive emphasis on allegedly. We we looked through some of 540 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:33,479 Speaker 1: those feeds just to see and who knows. We there's 541 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:36,040 Speaker 1: no way to tell if it's if it's real or not, 542 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,800 Speaker 1: or at least if it the person or person's posting 543 00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:44,240 Speaker 1: are actually in Los amber Nicra, right. And and then 544 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:48,080 Speaker 1: another evolution is occurring here because just like the criminals 545 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:53,560 Speaker 1: they're tracking, La Sandra is spreading across borders from El 546 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:59,520 Speaker 1: Salvador and the capital San Salvador to Honduras and Guatemala, 547 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,840 Speaker 1: which are you know, adjacent bordering countries. So they're bleeding 548 00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:06,719 Speaker 1: over into the border. Defining these people. It reminds me 549 00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,680 Speaker 1: of the idea um and this is not a ding 550 00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,440 Speaker 1: on anyone, but it's it's an observation from the Nolan 551 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:17,960 Speaker 1: Batman movies. They say that Batman has no jurisdiction, right like, 552 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:22,720 Speaker 1: if you are if you are military of El Salvador, 553 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:28,439 Speaker 1: or you are police El Salvador, then legally a lot 554 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:30,800 Speaker 1: of other stuff has to happen for you to get 555 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:34,239 Speaker 1: over the border. That's not your jurisdiction. That's a completely 556 00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 1: different country. But that only counts if you obey the law. 557 00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:43,880 Speaker 1: So there and from their perspective, you can see older, 558 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:48,920 Speaker 1: older reports from people who have claim to anonymously speak 559 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,520 Speaker 1: for Los Ambre, again hard to prove. They don't see 560 00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:55,719 Speaker 1: what they're doing as criminal activity. They think they are 561 00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:59,759 Speaker 1: doing what they call social cleansing, and for them it's 562 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:03,640 Speaker 1: a problem the law seems unable or unwilling to solve 563 00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,280 Speaker 1: through official channels. We should also point out a ton 564 00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:10,360 Speaker 1: of people in El Salvador, a very large part of 565 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:16,000 Speaker 1: the population are in some ways associated with gangs, such 566 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:21,960 Speaker 1: the estimates like UM sixties seventy thousand or whatever that 567 00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:27,960 Speaker 1: that would mean they outnumber Salvador and law enforcement pretty significantly. 568 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:32,680 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there's reason to fear the gangs as authorities 569 00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:37,200 Speaker 1: in several of the countries, including Wamala, Honduras and uh, 570 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,960 Speaker 1: surrounding countries that were these gangs operating, not just in 571 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,080 Speaker 1: El Salvador. But I want to talk about one of 572 00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:46,080 Speaker 1: the main reasons, ben I think that Los amber and 573 00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:50,840 Speaker 1: Negra formed or at least came back, and it's because 574 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:55,440 Speaker 1: of an issue with the prison system there. The prisons 575 00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:59,080 Speaker 1: in El Salvador are absolutely filled with gang members, but 576 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:03,600 Speaker 1: because there's so much violence between the different gangs, what 577 00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:08,520 Speaker 1: they've done is separate the gangs into different facilities. So 578 00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:12,640 Speaker 1: there's an m S thirteen facility or facilities, and there's 579 00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:16,800 Speaker 1: a Baro eighteen set of prisons. And the major issue 580 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,920 Speaker 1: is that there are so many concentrated members of the 581 00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:25,120 Speaker 1: same organization in one prison that they can organize and 582 00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:28,000 Speaker 1: they can still operate to a certain extent even though 583 00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:31,560 Speaker 1: they're all incarcerated. Uh. And you know, you just have 584 00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:34,880 Speaker 1: to have enough corruption within that system to get messages 585 00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:37,279 Speaker 1: in and out or just through regular channels to get 586 00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:41,600 Speaker 1: messages in and out. Uh, it's a real problem. So 587 00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:45,400 Speaker 1: to my mind, Ben, this is or at least began 588 00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:50,400 Speaker 1: as a group of disgrunt old either police officers or 589 00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:54,160 Speaker 1: military officials who saw that major problem and just thought, well, what, 590 00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:56,319 Speaker 1: we're just gonna imprison more of these guys and they're 591 00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,799 Speaker 1: just going to continue operating. No, we're gonna fix it 592 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:06,480 Speaker 1: our away, right, like the like President Buke said recently, 593 00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:12,480 Speaker 1: we're going to stop feeding your people in prison. Yes, 594 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,239 Speaker 1: that's a recent development, but I think it speaks to 595 00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:19,360 Speaker 1: the historical aspecture outlining. You're absolutely right, and not to 596 00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:23,200 Speaker 1: mention the fact that who that's the is that the 597 00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:27,480 Speaker 1: official who declared war on the gangs essentially like open war. 598 00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:30,440 Speaker 1: So then there have been a lot of casualties on 599 00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,680 Speaker 1: the police and military side. You can imagine that every 600 00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:37,480 Speaker 1: time that occurs, you're fullmenting more of a desire to 601 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:41,360 Speaker 1: just eliminate gang members rather than incarcerat right or or 602 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:47,360 Speaker 1: even reform and retaliation by police forces is not something 603 00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:52,600 Speaker 1: that should sound alien to anyone. Unfortunately, in a lot 604 00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:57,520 Speaker 1: of areas of the world, it is far from uncommon. 605 00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:02,120 Speaker 1: Even even if it's like ethnically who who didn't happen? 606 00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:07,560 Speaker 1: It is far from uncommon for colleagues of law enforcement 607 00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:13,520 Speaker 1: members two visit their own retaliation right instead of waiting 608 00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:16,280 Speaker 1: for the courts. And you see this depicted in fiction, 609 00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:22,080 Speaker 1: but that fiction is based on factual events. And again, 610 00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:26,040 Speaker 1: of course we're not saying every single member of every 611 00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:30,439 Speaker 1: single law enforcement organization in the world is doing any 612 00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:33,560 Speaker 1: of that stuff. Far from it. But I do think 613 00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:38,719 Speaker 1: that we're asking who la sombre is? We have to 614 00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:42,880 Speaker 1: we have to introduce some factors that don't get reported, 615 00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:46,000 Speaker 1: and they're easy dots to connect. Yes they try to 616 00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:49,880 Speaker 1: hide identities. Yes they're using unmarked vehicles and masks and 617 00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:53,239 Speaker 1: so on, and yeah, for sure, the tactics alone are 618 00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:57,320 Speaker 1: enough to persuade some people that these individuals are maybe 619 00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:01,160 Speaker 1: veterans of the Civil War, maybe their ex military, maybe 620 00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:04,600 Speaker 1: their X or even current police. Several have been taken 621 00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:07,680 Speaker 1: a court, arrested, then let free. Why does the p 622 00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:12,080 Speaker 1: n C seem so lenient? How were these tactics learned? 623 00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:15,600 Speaker 1: These are things that don't get improvised on the fly, 624 00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:18,839 Speaker 1: and you don't have to be the you know, like 625 00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:23,080 Speaker 1: some You don't have to have attended West Point to 626 00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:28,600 Speaker 1: to recognize when some some group is moving with cohesion 627 00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:32,160 Speaker 1: and training. A lot of a lot of the really 628 00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:37,200 Speaker 1: notorious officers of the El Salvadoran military during the Civil War, 629 00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:41,319 Speaker 1: they spend time right here in Fort Benning, Georgia, in 630 00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:43,680 Speaker 1: the home state of the stuff they don't want you 631 00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:47,839 Speaker 1: to know podcast at a school is now closed down, 632 00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:52,720 Speaker 1: officially called the School of the Americas. There it is there, 633 00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,480 Speaker 1: it is. Watch our video on YouTube just search School 634 00:44:55,480 --> 00:45:00,239 Speaker 1: of the Americans. Well quick and unless we got old 635 00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:03,400 Speaker 1: quicken dirty, what what is the What is the School 636 00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:08,040 Speaker 1: of the Americas? Is it like a geography program? Yeah, 637 00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:12,560 Speaker 1: that's that's exactly what it is. Uh, it's a training 638 00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:17,960 Speaker 1: grounds a pretty large area there where it's been alleged 639 00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:20,840 Speaker 1: in some cases, and it's also been proven in other cases, 640 00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:26,600 Speaker 1: where guerrilla tactics often are taught. Two people who end 641 00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:30,560 Speaker 1: up going and fighting, let's say, in a pre war. 642 00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:33,279 Speaker 1: Is that a good way to put it, ben They 643 00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:37,800 Speaker 1: fight a pre war in a place before the Civil 644 00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:43,319 Speaker 1: War begins, often in South America or Central America. They're 645 00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:48,359 Speaker 1: cuckoo for coco puffs. Wait, they're cuckoos. Were cuckoo puffs 646 00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:54,200 Speaker 1: as long as we're describing coups, yeah, yeah, exactly. And 647 00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:58,960 Speaker 1: there are coups that are often they're coups that are 648 00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:01,719 Speaker 1: often support it by the US, and the US is 649 00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:05,880 Speaker 1: supporting the far right side of the political spectrum, at 650 00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:09,239 Speaker 1: least in Latin America as far as we've seen historically. 651 00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:13,719 Speaker 1: So just check out School of America's tell us what 652 00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:18,840 Speaker 1: you think, uh, and also recall that that Uncle Sam 653 00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:23,920 Speaker 1: has sent in uh its own members and allies to 654 00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:29,239 Speaker 1: deliver other training. Right. So the School of America is, 655 00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:32,440 Speaker 1: in a very real way took the show on the 656 00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:36,279 Speaker 1: road at times. And I don't know, like okay, So 657 00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:40,280 Speaker 1: none of this is absolute proof the identities of the sambre. 658 00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:44,719 Speaker 1: None of this is absolute proof of the evolution right 659 00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:48,040 Speaker 1: or the providence of their training. But if you look 660 00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:52,040 Speaker 1: at this, it's easy to imagine how a trained keeper 661 00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:55,279 Speaker 1: the law might grow disillusion like you were saying, uh, 662 00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:57,400 Speaker 1: they might get tired of the corruption. They might have 663 00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:00,879 Speaker 1: that Serpico moment where they go to THEEF and they say, 664 00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:03,439 Speaker 1: have got proof they did this, we can get them 665 00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:06,480 Speaker 1: and the chief is being paid off. So slides it 666 00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:10,160 Speaker 1: to the left. It's dangerously easy to think that. But 667 00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:14,720 Speaker 1: with all that mind, I have to reiterate, we cannot 668 00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:19,000 Speaker 1: prove this yet, but I think we can say it 669 00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:23,480 Speaker 1: would be pretty in surprising if this was not the case. 670 00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:28,000 Speaker 1: Is that fair? I think you're it's almost fair, Ben. 671 00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:31,160 Speaker 1: I think either School of the America's or a similar 672 00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:35,279 Speaker 1: training of some sort that that's exactly like that and 673 00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:38,279 Speaker 1: what you're describing, just maybe from a different source. That's 674 00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:41,440 Speaker 1: all I would say, because I haven't seen anything with 675 00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:45,200 Speaker 1: School of the America's specifically, but it is the thing 676 00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:49,680 Speaker 1: that does the thing we're talking about, right, So it's 677 00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:52,400 Speaker 1: I mean, we're not saying the School of America's specifically 678 00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:56,560 Speaker 1: created the SAM right, A lot of the School of 679 00:47:56,560 --> 00:48:01,040 Speaker 1: America has accidentally did a lot of stuff there. There 680 00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:05,879 Speaker 1: you go, it was an unhappy accident. Not jeez, well, 681 00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:08,200 Speaker 1: this gives us, h This gives us an opportunity to 682 00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:13,080 Speaker 1: talk about the controversies here, moral dilemmas like you've seen 683 00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:17,520 Speaker 1: it before in uh in Man on the Street interviews 684 00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:23,400 Speaker 1: about a vigilante action. Right, there's always gonna be people 685 00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:27,160 Speaker 1: who say, well, good, you know what I mean. Even 686 00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:28,880 Speaker 1: if there was a guy I think it was in 687 00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:32,240 Speaker 1: the United Kingdom, there was a guy who would dress 688 00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:35,680 Speaker 1: up as a superhero to hide his identity, and all 689 00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:39,440 Speaker 1: he did was go to cars that had been booted, 690 00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:40,920 Speaker 1: you know, and they put the little boot on the 691 00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:43,880 Speaker 1: back tire, and he would take like a saw, like 692 00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:48,880 Speaker 1: power saw and cut off the boot. That's all. That's 693 00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:52,200 Speaker 1: all he did. And there were interviews where people were like, 694 00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:57,839 Speaker 1: this guy's great. Yeah, it's so interesting to to just 695 00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:02,279 Speaker 1: have the phrase boot uh in in the context of 696 00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:06,040 Speaker 1: you said in the United Kingdom, right, yes, that's mood. Yeah. Well, 697 00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:07,839 Speaker 1: I would just imagine the boot of a car, right, 698 00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:10,080 Speaker 1: which is the trunk, And I just imagine somebody cutting 699 00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:13,440 Speaker 1: off the trunks of cars all over the city as 700 00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:16,960 Speaker 1: an act of good. They usually like in the front 701 00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:24,160 Speaker 1: to chaos. Okay, Well, in the interests of time, folks, 702 00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:27,480 Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to uh, we're gonna have to come 703 00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:30,920 Speaker 1: back and update maybe later in the week on that 704 00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:34,279 Speaker 1: on that real life vigilante thing with the parking the 705 00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:38,279 Speaker 1: parking guy. Um, I swear it's real. It's not a 706 00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:42,560 Speaker 1: fever dream. I like barely sleep, so okay, uh, this 707 00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:46,400 Speaker 1: but this does show a dilemma, right, there's a dilemma 708 00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:51,680 Speaker 1: inherent in any conversation about vigilantes. The dilemma is ultimately this, 709 00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:56,160 Speaker 1: do their actions result in more good or more harm? 710 00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:59,560 Speaker 1: Should they be stopped? If you live in an area 711 00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:03,680 Speaker 1: where it's terrorized by gangs constantly, to the point that 712 00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:06,960 Speaker 1: they have become your local government right and you have 713 00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:10,520 Speaker 1: to pay protection for your own little shop which is 714 00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:13,720 Speaker 1: already struggling because you probably live in a poorer area 715 00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:16,879 Speaker 1: of town, and you know the police will not and 716 00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:21,600 Speaker 1: have not done did Ley Squad for you, would you 717 00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:24,800 Speaker 1: still be mad at a group like Losandra, as brutal 718 00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:27,600 Speaker 1: as they are. I don't know, I don't know. Yeah, 719 00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:30,920 Speaker 1: I mean, it would definitely be based on the personal 720 00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:34,640 Speaker 1: situation and experience. Right If you've got a family member 721 00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:40,080 Speaker 1: that was killed. There's so many stories of the two 722 00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:44,240 Speaker 1: degrees up to zero degrees of separation with a family 723 00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:48,040 Speaker 1: member who was either killed or beaten up by one 724 00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:50,600 Speaker 1: of these groups because simply because they didn't pay or 725 00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:52,799 Speaker 1: they didn't you know, pay enough, or something like that. 726 00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:55,960 Speaker 1: Then there's an article we should shout out from I 727 00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:59,160 Speaker 1: think Crisis Group something like that that has a lot 728 00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:02,759 Speaker 1: of personal experience stories that you can read right now 729 00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:06,520 Speaker 1: if you want Yeah, International Crisis Group has a piece 730 00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:10,080 Speaker 1: called life under Gang Rule in El Salvador and it's 731 00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:15,080 Speaker 1: very much worth the read. It came out in November November, 732 00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:20,680 Speaker 1: so you can see the experiences that people are having 733 00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:25,480 Speaker 1: in in this country due to this violence. And oh 734 00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:29,480 Speaker 1: we should also note, uh, you'll see this when you 735 00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:34,120 Speaker 1: look up the p n C or legitimate police activity 736 00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:37,640 Speaker 1: in El Salvador, they're already masked up pretty often pre 737 00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:41,319 Speaker 1: COVID by the way, yep, because they have to hide 738 00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:46,680 Speaker 1: their identities or risk being hunted down themselves. Yeah, and 739 00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:51,400 Speaker 1: now we we have a little bit of a of 740 00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:54,480 Speaker 1: a bigger picture here, but we have to ask, you 741 00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:59,080 Speaker 1: know about these dilemmas. The other thing is these these 742 00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:02,600 Speaker 1: victims tard at it by the black shadow. They're all 743 00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:06,400 Speaker 1: at some point associated with criminal activity, right, but they 744 00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:09,160 Speaker 1: have not been given a day in court. In many cases, 745 00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:14,680 Speaker 1: they're not being arrested. They're being targeted, tortured and executed. 746 00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:19,359 Speaker 1: The controversy is similar to something in Colombia during the 747 00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:22,399 Speaker 1: heyday of the drug wars. The group that was known 748 00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:27,720 Speaker 1: as Los Peppes for short, uh, persecuted by Papulo Escobar. 749 00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:31,240 Speaker 1: They operated a low level war against the Meddaene cartel 750 00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:36,759 Speaker 1: up until Escobar died in what was that? When it 751 00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:41,640 Speaker 1: was that? Okay? Yeah, and that's a fascinating story, right 752 00:52:41,719 --> 00:52:45,719 Speaker 1: about a group forming like that and willing, like just 753 00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:50,080 Speaker 1: willing to go to war with a cartel like that 754 00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:52,160 Speaker 1: because you were scorned or because you were hurt or 755 00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:54,920 Speaker 1: were you know, damage was done to you or a 756 00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:57,920 Speaker 1: loved one. But the thing is, you can't find much 757 00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:01,480 Speaker 1: about that group, at least I couldn't. Yeah, not a 758 00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:05,239 Speaker 1: not a ton in English. But also they were they 759 00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:09,040 Speaker 1: were supported by another cartel, which goes to another theory 760 00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:13,360 Speaker 1: about l Sambra. You know, did someone did someone take 761 00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:17,879 Speaker 1: over the Lessandra title and use it in a convenient way? 762 00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:20,680 Speaker 1: Like are they run by a cartel? From everything that 763 00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:25,480 Speaker 1: Lesambra has appeared to publicly say, I'm thinking the answers 764 00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:29,040 Speaker 1: no and don't particularly want to piss them off. It's 765 00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:32,279 Speaker 1: a possibility that one of the other rival gangs, or 766 00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:35,680 Speaker 1: even an up and coming rival gang, is operating as 767 00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:39,839 Speaker 1: Losambra Negra to just instill fear or to break up 768 00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:43,440 Speaker 1: you know, small parts of let's say MS thirteen's business 769 00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:47,440 Speaker 1: in certain parts of the country. That's a possibility though 770 00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:52,600 Speaker 1: I don't think it's very high and probability. Yeah, And 771 00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:57,600 Speaker 1: of course we're just giving you the publicly available information 772 00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:00,000 Speaker 1: as it stands, and we hope you're being clear about 773 00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:03,799 Speaker 1: what has been alleged and what has been proven. Uh. 774 00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:10,520 Speaker 1: The government links of Los Peppes were confirmed, right, even 775 00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:14,680 Speaker 1: when they were working with Cartel's Les Sambre maybe trying 776 00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:17,000 Speaker 1: to give its side of store and social media. You 777 00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:20,600 Speaker 1: can check out something that alleges to be their Twitter account. 778 00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:24,799 Speaker 1: I looked at it, and they're reporting on actions of 779 00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:28,960 Speaker 1: the p n C often, right, and they're thanking people 780 00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:32,640 Speaker 1: for tips occasionally. But if you if you go there 781 00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:37,640 Speaker 1: now again, I'll Salvador very beautiful place, you'll you'll see 782 00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:41,480 Speaker 1: that it's still struggles with gang violence, with violence in general, 783 00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:46,680 Speaker 1: but primarily gang violence. The current president launched that crackdown 784 00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:50,320 Speaker 1: that you have mentioned, Matt. This resulted in mass arrest, 785 00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:53,600 Speaker 1: like a drag net. That's kind of tough to imagine 786 00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:58,200 Speaker 1: because it was physical, tens of thousands of people getting 787 00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:01,319 Speaker 1: locked up. Uh. And this was in response to the 788 00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:04,640 Speaker 1: murder rate hitting a record high in March of this year. 789 00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:08,040 Speaker 1: Sixty two murders were recorded in a single day, across 790 00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:11,760 Speaker 1: the nation. And that's a population around like six point 791 00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:17,000 Speaker 1: five million, So it's not it's not a huge, huge country. 792 00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:20,279 Speaker 1: That's a lot of deaths. Uh. And the government announced 793 00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:24,160 Speaker 1: a thirty days state of emergency. They suspended constitutional rights. 794 00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:30,239 Speaker 1: As we record, that thirty day period has been extended 795 00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:35,640 Speaker 1: five times. Uh, and you don't really have a recourse here. 796 00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:40,120 Speaker 1: From March to September of this year, the month we record, 797 00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:44,960 Speaker 1: security forces have arrested almost fifty one people in counting, 798 00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:50,160 Speaker 1: mostly young men, mostly from poor neighborhoods. And uh, they've 799 00:55:50,239 --> 00:55:54,439 Speaker 1: arrested them often just for being young men in poor neighborhoods. 800 00:55:55,719 --> 00:55:58,080 Speaker 1: Starts to feel like a quota system at some point, 801 00:55:58,120 --> 00:56:01,839 Speaker 1: doesn't it. Yeah, But it's so messed up to imagine 802 00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:09,000 Speaker 1: it's a it's a reaction to a serious threat of violence. 803 00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:14,000 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's tough because how do what 804 00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:16,960 Speaker 1: what are the right moves to make? Do you spend 805 00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:20,719 Speaker 1: money you don't have as a country on systems of 806 00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:24,720 Speaker 1: helping out those in need to prevent people from joining, 807 00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:27,560 Speaker 1: you know, the organizations that you're trying to fight against. 808 00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:30,279 Speaker 1: If you don't have the money, how do you get it? 809 00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:32,440 Speaker 1: You borrow it from another country and then go into 810 00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:35,120 Speaker 1: a bunch of debt which may lead to another civil 811 00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:38,960 Speaker 1: war down the road. Yeah, deal with the I m 812 00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:42,000 Speaker 1: F for the World Bank or something. Well yeah, and 813 00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:47,480 Speaker 1: in a larger picture too, I am not persuaded that 814 00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:51,399 Speaker 1: the US has always been a good faith actor. Well 815 00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:53,520 Speaker 1: I know it hasn't been a good faith actor. But 816 00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:58,320 Speaker 1: even now, you know, the reality is, say what it wants. 817 00:56:58,440 --> 00:57:03,799 Speaker 1: The United States does not really geo politically have a 818 00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:10,040 Speaker 1: problem with Latin American states being riddled with corruption and 819 00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:13,759 Speaker 1: and have it, you know, anything to prevent them from 820 00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:20,800 Speaker 1: becoming regional and then possibly world level hedgemons. Right there. 821 00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:23,840 Speaker 1: There are reasons Venezuela is a pariahs state that are 822 00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:26,840 Speaker 1: absolutely valid, and there are other reasons that aren't being 823 00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:30,919 Speaker 1: talked about because it doesn't make the global economic order 824 00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:35,880 Speaker 1: look particularly cool. And I think whenever we talk about 825 00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:39,240 Speaker 1: this sort of stuff, we have to realize that that 826 00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:42,840 Speaker 1: is a piece of the conversation. And maybe that's a 827 00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:45,840 Speaker 1: story for a different day. Maybe that's a series of 828 00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:50,160 Speaker 1: episodes on all the work the US has historically put 829 00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:57,320 Speaker 1: into keeping Latin America divided and uh try trying its 830 00:57:57,320 --> 00:58:00,959 Speaker 1: best to make them vassal states. Uh, I don't know. Yeah, 831 00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:03,439 Speaker 1: it is a response to a serious threat. Though it's 832 00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:06,760 Speaker 1: not like an excuse to just It's not like the 833 00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:09,080 Speaker 1: president is who's pretty young, by the way, It's not 834 00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:13,000 Speaker 1: like the president is just going is an excuse I 835 00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:16,240 Speaker 1: need to do a thing. He is trying to prevent 836 00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:21,080 Speaker 1: this violence where so many people have often been forced 837 00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:25,040 Speaker 1: to become members of gangs. And wasn't there a president 838 00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:30,200 Speaker 1: who tried a softer hand like uh, like the attempted 839 00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:34,120 Speaker 1: to at least while they were in we're in office 840 00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:40,880 Speaker 1: to um do more reforming rather than just jailing and prosecution. 841 00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:44,520 Speaker 1: Am I wrong? I believe you're correct. Um, I believe 842 00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:49,920 Speaker 1: you're correct. But that the thing with those but it 843 00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:52,240 Speaker 1: wasn't supported right by the people like that was not 844 00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:56,920 Speaker 1: really And the issue with those programs is that they 845 00:58:56,960 --> 00:59:02,080 Speaker 1: don't provide an immediate solution. They take time, right, It 846 00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:07,880 Speaker 1: takes time to heal a community, right, and often often 847 00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:14,680 Speaker 1: beneficial actions take longer to implement than destructive or violent actions. 848 00:59:15,080 --> 00:59:19,560 Speaker 1: That's just this reality. And uh, this is why you 849 00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:23,480 Speaker 1: know a lot of people El Salvador support this crackdown, 850 00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:27,440 Speaker 1: but a lot of people who were in the neighborhoods 851 00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:30,760 Speaker 1: they're being cracked down upon. Are saying, this is unfairly 852 00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:34,160 Speaker 1: targeting the poor. We are barely getting by. How do 853 00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:36,840 Speaker 1: you think we're gonna afford a lawyer? How can we 854 00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:40,800 Speaker 1: pay two fifty dollars uh, you know, a month or 855 00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:44,520 Speaker 1: whatever to make sure our kid gets food to eat 856 00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:46,920 Speaker 1: in prison on top of the money we have to 857 00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:50,720 Speaker 1: pay to go see them, right on top of the lawyer, Like, 858 00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:54,439 Speaker 1: where are we going to find this cash? And these 859 00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:58,479 Speaker 1: people are just being detained. Often they're not sentenced, they're 860 00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:01,400 Speaker 1: just stuck. By the way, I still have to pay 861 01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:03,760 Speaker 1: the taxes to my local gang as well as the 862 01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:08,600 Speaker 1: taxes to you and your government. It's not ideal, I mean, 863 01:00:08,600 --> 01:00:10,280 Speaker 1: and as these are the people too that have the 864 01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:13,560 Speaker 1: least say so, you know, it's like I was staying 865 01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:15,280 Speaker 1: at the top of the show, like if you if 866 01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:19,200 Speaker 1: you don't play along with you know, the gangs, then 867 01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:22,120 Speaker 1: you're a target. If you do, then you're a target. 868 01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:25,520 Speaker 1: And it's all just because of where you happen to 869 01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:29,720 Speaker 1: be born geographically, you know. And then and then if 870 01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:32,440 Speaker 1: you try to leave, you're you're you're you're in quote 871 01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:37,240 Speaker 1: illegal you know. It's just it's a real rocket, a 872 01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:42,400 Speaker 1: hard place. It is. It is a Gordian not right, 873 01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:47,560 Speaker 1: and some of now analysts have called it, you know, 874 01:00:47,640 --> 01:00:52,400 Speaker 1: part of a feedback loop. I mean, the president of 875 01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:57,000 Speaker 1: a country saying push me and I'll let I'll let 876 01:00:57,000 --> 01:01:02,120 Speaker 1: your colleagues starve in jail, I'll let them that that 877 01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:05,680 Speaker 1: that's pretty extreme. But also, oh, that's what the other 878 01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:08,200 Speaker 1: president did. Ben, I'm so sorry. I just I have 879 01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:09,880 Speaker 1: just I have to get this out. But don't wanna 880 01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:11,760 Speaker 1: get it out. I'll be upset with myself. Um it 881 01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:16,360 Speaker 1: was former president um Mauricio Funes and the term that 882 01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:20,200 Speaker 1: term where he reduced the murder rate down about half. 883 01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:26,040 Speaker 1: That was right before Los Ambre Negra re emerged in 884 01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:29,560 Speaker 1: so you can almost see how it could have been, 885 01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:32,120 Speaker 1: or at least seen could have been seen as a 886 01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:37,520 Speaker 1: reaction to those policies of improving conditions for the game members. 887 01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:40,960 Speaker 1: It's interesting, well, it's yeah, it's important to know that 888 01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:44,200 Speaker 1: this also, this crackdown approach isn't coming out of nowhere. 889 01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:50,560 Speaker 1: The government tried other stuff and at this point, with 890 01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:54,640 Speaker 1: all these factors mixed in, you can see how people 891 01:01:56,160 --> 01:02:01,520 Speaker 1: might support a group like the Sombra Negra you know, 892 01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:05,000 Speaker 1: even even if it's just implicitly, you can imagine how 893 01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:11,720 Speaker 1: members of the National Police, even if they're not members 894 01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:14,960 Speaker 1: of Le Sambre, you can imagine how they might look 895 01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:20,880 Speaker 1: kindly upon those actions. Because the violence is touching so 896 01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:25,360 Speaker 1: many people in the country, and at this point we 897 01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:27,720 Speaker 1: want to pass the mic to you, folks. Thanks for 898 01:02:27,760 --> 01:02:31,760 Speaker 1: tuning in. Let us know what you think about about 899 01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:35,440 Speaker 1: the situation in El Salvador, or about the moral dilemma 900 01:02:35,520 --> 01:02:38,880 Speaker 1: of vigilante ism in general. We don't I don't even 901 01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:42,880 Speaker 1: want us to tip the scale by influencing influencing you 902 01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:45,760 Speaker 1: too much. Just those questions we cannot wait to hear 903 01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:48,040 Speaker 1: from you. We try to be easy to find online. 904 01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:50,960 Speaker 1: That's right. You can find us on Facebook, and you 905 01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:54,200 Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter and also on YouTube with 906 01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:58,080 Speaker 1: a handle Conspiracy Stuff on Instagram, we are Conspiracy Stuff show. 907 01:02:58,120 --> 01:03:00,520 Speaker 1: If you'd prefer to reach out to us in a 908 01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:04,600 Speaker 1: more analog way, yes, there's you know, it's analog, digital whatever, 909 01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:07,080 Speaker 1: Brave New World. Give us a telephone called Yes, you 910 01:03:07,120 --> 01:03:10,480 Speaker 1: can call one eight three three std w y t K. 911 01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:13,560 Speaker 1: It's a voicemail system. You've got three minutes say whatever 912 01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:17,000 Speaker 1: you'd like. Call yourself something not your real name, preferably, 913 01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:19,600 Speaker 1: and uh, just let us know if we can use 914 01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:23,160 Speaker 1: your voice and message on the air. Hey, if you 915 01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:25,800 Speaker 1: don't like either of those things, social media or phones. 916 01:03:26,600 --> 01:03:29,840 Speaker 1: Do you like books? We've got one coming out ben. 917 01:03:29,960 --> 01:03:35,040 Speaker 1: What do you think the most aproposed chapter is in 918 01:03:35,120 --> 01:03:36,720 Speaker 1: our book? Stuff they don't want you to know for 919 01:03:36,760 --> 01:03:41,240 Speaker 1: this episode Assassinations, But hey, we get it. If you 920 01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:43,680 Speaker 1: don't want to pre order or order our book, that's fine, 921 01:03:43,720 --> 01:03:46,560 Speaker 1: that's okay. You can send us an email. We are 922 01:03:46,920 --> 01:04:08,360 Speaker 1: conspiracy at i heart radio dot com m H. Stuff 923 01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:10,280 Speaker 1: they Don't want you to Know is a production of 924 01:04:10,320 --> 01:04:13,280 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, 925 01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:16,280 Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 926 01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:17,640 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.