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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast am on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: And welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nori with

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Speaker 2: you as the most visible death dula working in America today,

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Speaker 2: and we'll tell you what that means in a moment.

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Speaker 2: Alewa Arthur is a seeker or recovering attorney and the

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Speaker 2: founder of Going with Grace, a death duela training and

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Speaker 2: end of life planning organization. She has spent thousands of

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Speaker 2: hours with folks as they contemplate their mortality, when regrets,

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Speaker 2: secret joys, hidden affairs, and dim realities are finally revealed aloud.

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Speaker 2: Her website is Going with Grace dot com. Her latest

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Speaker 2: book is Briefly Perfectly Human. Hellua, welcome to the program.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me.

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Speaker 2: Looking forward to this fascinating now I know. Dulham is

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Speaker 2: a person who assists women who are having babies. But

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Speaker 2: you're a death dula. What is that?

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Speaker 3: It's the same thing, but just on the other side,

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Speaker 3: if you can have it so. Essentially, a death doula

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Speaker 3: is a supportive person who does all of the non

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Speaker 3: medical and holistic Karen support of the dying person and

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Speaker 3: the circle of support through the entire process. And when

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Speaker 3: I say dying person, I mean anybody who has come

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Speaker 3: into awareness of their mortality. So we can also work

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Speaker 3: with healthy people when they want to do some comprehensive

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Speaker 3: end of life planning or work through their fears of death.

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Speaker 3: When people know what it is that they're going to

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Speaker 3: be dying of or they have a diagnosis, we can

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Speaker 3: support them in creating the most ideal death for themselves

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Speaker 3: under the circumstances. And then after a death, we can

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Speaker 3: help family members wrap up affairs of their loved one's life.

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Speaker 3: We're doing all the emotional, spiritual, and practical support of

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Speaker 3: dying essentially.

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Speaker 2: How did you get involved in this?

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Speaker 3: Well, quite a process, you know. Not many people choose

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Speaker 3: to go into death work. Rather they say that deathwork

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Speaker 3: chooses you. About eleven years ago, I was practicing law

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Speaker 3: at the Legal Aid Foundation of Los Angeles in domestic

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Speaker 3: violence and Consumer Economic Development department. And I grew really

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Speaker 3: terribly depressed, clinically depressed, and I took a medical leave

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Speaker 3: of absence where I went to Cuba, and I met

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Speaker 3: a fellow traveler on the bus who had uterine cancer.

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Speaker 3: We spent a lot of time talking about her life

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Speaker 3: and then her death. We spent fourteen hours on that

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Speaker 3: bus ride together, and during that ride it became abundantly

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Speaker 3: clear to me that she didn't have very many people

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Speaker 3: to be in a conversation about mortality with, because when

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Speaker 3: she would mention death since she was ill, people would

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Speaker 3: tell her to focus on hope or healing instead. And

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Speaker 3: I can understand that impulse, and yet it meant that

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Speaker 3: she was alone in her questions and her considerations around dying.

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Speaker 3: It made me really sad that she was so alone

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Speaker 3: in it, and also to open my eyes to the

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Speaker 3: power of our mortality to help us get clear on

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Speaker 3: the type of life that we want to lead. When

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Speaker 3: I came back from Cuba, my brother in law became sick,

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Speaker 3: Peter Saint John was his name, and I got to

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Speaker 3: support him through the last two months of his life.

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Speaker 3: And I saw firsthand, partially what I'd witnessed in Cuba

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Speaker 3: with this beautiful, strange, right now friend on the bus,

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Speaker 3: but the reality for thousands of people in the medical

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Speaker 3: care system who are dying from illness, My heart.

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Speaker 2: What got you so depressed in the first place?

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Speaker 3: What got me?

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Speaker 2: What was the question so depressed in the first place?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think I was living a life that was

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Speaker 3: inauthentic to me. I'd been trying to squeeze myself into

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Speaker 3: this perfect little lawyer box, knowing that it wasn't really

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Speaker 3: a fit for my personality. I got really run down

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Speaker 3: by the system, kept butting up against the systems of

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Speaker 3: oppression that seemed to keep the people in the positions

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Speaker 3: that they were in, and there seemed to be no

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Speaker 3: hope for healing or recovery or getting out of the system.

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Speaker 3: And also I just wasn't able to use the parts

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Speaker 3: of myself that I really value, like my sensitivity and

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Speaker 3: my pension for the absurd, and wanting to play around

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Speaker 3: in the murky interesting parts of human existence and not

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Speaker 3: just tick boxes on forms and argue in court about

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Speaker 3: what was right. I wanted to argue about what was

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Speaker 3: just and said.

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Speaker 2: I got the emails from a lot of high school

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Speaker 2: friends last week because one of our high school friends

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Speaker 2: passed away, and it kind of looks at your own

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Speaker 2: mortality when people that are your age go. But how

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Speaker 2: many people really understand the dying process of all?

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Speaker 3: Not a lot of people. Certainly you don't have to

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Speaker 3: learn until you're in it yourself or somebody that you

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Speaker 3: care for deeply and you are probably doing some caregiving

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Speaker 3: for are in it. And then you learn far more

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Speaker 3: than you ever wanted to. You learn the signs of dying,

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Speaker 3: all about the medicines and how they're administered, and how

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Speaker 3: to talk to doctors rather, how to get your questions

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Speaker 3: answered or not. You learn about hospital gowns and how

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Speaker 3: much the cough drop costs. And you learn so much

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Speaker 3: about the process that is quite overwhelming when you're also

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Speaker 3: dealing with the heavily most toll of the potential of

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Speaker 3: somebody's death. So it's intense.

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Speaker 2: What does society get wrong about the dying process?

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Speaker 3: Oh boy, where do I begin? Well, for starters, we've

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Speaker 3: learned so much about the dying process from the media,

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Speaker 3: and I think many of us have this vision of

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Speaker 3: somebody who looks like they did much when they were healthy,

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Speaker 3: who is laying on this bed hooked up to some machines,

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Speaker 3: and they're maybe talking and laughing and maybe eating, and

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Speaker 3: then they get kind of quiet, and then they cross

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Speaker 3: their arms over their chests and then they drift off

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Speaker 3: to whatever comes next, if anything at all. But the

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Speaker 3: reality is a much more involved and intense process, and

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Speaker 3: that and dying off when happens really in a nonlinear fashion.

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Speaker 3: I'd say, where folks are grappling with the ups and

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Speaker 3: downs of illness and of grief as they are leaving

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Speaker 3: behind everybody that they've ever known and loved, and we

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Speaker 3: are weaving the that we love. Who's dying.

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Speaker 2: My mother's going to be ninety five next week. Wow,

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Speaker 2: And she talks about death and what it is. But

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Speaker 2: I think when she talks about it, it gives her

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Speaker 2: a better understanding of living her current life more fully.

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Speaker 3: What do you think I think your mom's got it

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Speaker 3: down in her ninety five years. She certainly picked up

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Speaker 3: something really powerful she did, and that's yeah, that's available

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Speaker 3: to all of us all the time. We don't have

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Speaker 3: to be elderly or dealing with the serious illness to

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Speaker 3: get to the point where we can start thinking about

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Speaker 3: our death and use it to inform how we live currently.

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Speaker 2: What's the proper way of end of life planning.

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Speaker 3: There's a number of things that we really need to

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Speaker 3: keep in mind. I'd say any place that somebody finds

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Speaker 3: the entry is a great place to begin. But there

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Speaker 3: are a few key things that we really need to

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Speaker 3: keep in mind when preparing for the end of life.

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Speaker 3: For starters, everybody, everybody, everybody should complete an advance directive.

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Speaker 3: That's a document that's made up of two parts. A

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Speaker 3: medical power of a turn me somebody who can make

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Speaker 3: your decisions for you in the event that you can't,

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Speaker 3: and a document that lays out your desires for life

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Speaker 3: support and how you want to be treated at the

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Speaker 3: end of life. These are wildly important documents that everybody

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Speaker 3: over the age of eighteen should be considering and filling

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Speaker 3: out and having big conversations about, because it's the people

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Speaker 3: that we love that really need to know these decisions

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Speaker 3: that we're making.

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Speaker 2: I've given my two daughters and son that kind of document,

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Speaker 2: and I basically said, I don't want to be on

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Speaker 2: the licenustaining support on and on and on and on.

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Speaker 2: Pull the plug.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you for that. I think your children will

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Speaker 3: appreciate it at some point, and me, as a death doula,

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Speaker 3: definitely appreciates it. So thanks for doing that. Well.

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Speaker 2: At least that way, they don't have to make that decision.

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Speaker 3: Exactly when they're in the midst of a really emotionally

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Speaker 3: dense time. There's so much going on, you know, when

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Speaker 3: it's nearing the end of your life, and provided, let's

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Speaker 3: say one of these documents comes into play, your desires

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Speaker 3: already laid out, and while the situation may not look

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Speaker 3: like something that you could have imagined beforehand, they at

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Speaker 3: least have a set of principles through which to view

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Speaker 3: their decision, or through which to make it. That's wildly supportive.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you.

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Speaker 2: Tell me about the title of your book, Briefly Perfectly Human.

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Speaker 3: Well, the title was a hard fought one. The book

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Speaker 3: had been done for a while and I just con't

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Speaker 3: figure out what to call it. And I was thinking

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Speaker 3: about how all of us live these very brief lives.

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Speaker 3: When we're in them and they feel like they're going

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Speaker 3: on for forever. We all understand that our time here

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Speaker 3: is finite in some capacity, whether or not we're aware

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Speaker 3: to that fact. The Perfectly Portioned seems to be really

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Speaker 3: keen on us viewing our lives without thinking about what

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Speaker 3: they should have been, but rather exactly what they were.

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Speaker 3: I find that many people, as they get close to

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Speaker 3: the end of their lives, have to reconcile the life

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Speaker 3: that they thought that they should have had or could

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Speaker 3: have had with the one that they actually have is

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Speaker 3: to invite us all to think of our lives as

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Speaker 3: we live them as absolutely perfect as they were, And

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Speaker 3: of course the human part just hearkens back to the

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Speaker 3: idea that none of us know what we're doing. Really,

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Speaker 3: we're all on this really weird why ride, and we

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Speaker 3: have a whole host of human emotions and experiences, and

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Speaker 3: we're all doing our best to try to figure it

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Speaker 3: out as we go along.

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Speaker 2: How often have you been at the bedside of the dying.

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Speaker 3: A bunch at this point. It's kind of hard to say,

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Speaker 3: because there's certainly been clients that have you know, had

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Speaker 3: me Johnny with them for years, and some that I

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Speaker 3: talked to a few days before they die, So it's

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Speaker 3: been quite a few at this point.

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Speaker 2: Explain to us of Uchanalua what should like to die?

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Speaker 2: I mean, what process did they go through?

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Speaker 3: Well, George, I wish I knew that, But since I'm

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Speaker 3: still here in this body talking, not facing serious illness myself,

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Speaker 3: it's hard to say. Yet. I can point to some

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Speaker 3: signs that I've witnessed that make it look as though

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Speaker 3: dying is approaching, which is that the dying person often

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Speaker 3: disengages from the world around them, they may fall unconscious,

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Speaker 3: or they may go very quiet. They sleep for a

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Speaker 3: long periods of time, their skin starts to change appearance.

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Speaker 3: It's called modeling of the skin. When it creates this

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Speaker 3: like web like appearance that can be seen on both

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Speaker 3: fair people and darker skinned people. The tips of their

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Speaker 3: nose and fingertips toes might turn like a bluish hue

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Speaker 3: urine output gets much darker. The body starts to shink

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Speaker 3: in is the best way I can describe it. Where

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Speaker 3: As a body is either holding onto fluid or ridding

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Speaker 3: itself with it, these a body starts to take on

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Speaker 3: an appearance that is not much like the person when

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Speaker 3: they were vital and healthy, but rather it looks so

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Speaker 3: like dying is occurring. There's the best way I can

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Speaker 3: describe it. That's what I've been able to witness. I

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Speaker 3: notice also that people often before they get to the

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Speaker 3: point where they're unconscious, really start to think of their

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Speaker 3: lives in the big picture and start to that process

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Speaker 3: of reconciliation that I was talking about earlier.

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Speaker 2: Are they uncomfortable? Is it uncomfortable for them? The dying process?

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Speaker 3: It can be, And gratefully we have hospices that are

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Speaker 3: spectacular at handling pain and offering medication for any physical

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Speaker 3: symptoms that are uncomfortable. But I'd also say that it

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Speaker 3: can be emotionally uncomfortable as well. And recognizing that you're

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Speaker 3: soon leaving the only place that you've known with your

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Speaker 3: conscious mind at least, and the only place you've ever

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Speaker 3: really lived, it can be difficult. For sure.

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Speaker 2: Do you believe in the hereafter?

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Speaker 3: I'm not sure. I spent a lot of time thinking

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Speaker 3: about it and talking about it with my clients to

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Speaker 3: get them clear on what their ideas are. My job

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Speaker 3: is to remain as neutral as possible for their experience

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Speaker 3: so that I can help them get clear on what

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Speaker 3: they believe, because they will soon find out.

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Speaker 2: What is the strangest visitation you've witnessed?

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Speaker 3: Where visitation?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, where maybe something is on the other side. Did

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Speaker 2: you ever see anything that might help convince you that

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Speaker 2: it exists?

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Speaker 3: I can't take convinced, but I have seen folks. Well,

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Speaker 3: there's one client I want to tell you a story about.

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Speaker 3: She had had dementia for quite a few years. I've

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Speaker 3: been journeying with her for a couple of years at

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Speaker 3: the time this happened, and she had stopped using sentences.

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Speaker 3: She wasn't even really saying words anymore. She's using more

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Speaker 3: syllables and sounds when she spoke. And she had a

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Speaker 3: respiratory event and was bedridden from that point forward. One

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Speaker 3: day her daughter stepped out of the room and it

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Speaker 3: was just her and Eye for a moment. She had

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Speaker 3: been asleep, and she you know, started to raise her

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Speaker 3: torso up off the bed and started grabbing at something,

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Speaker 3: trying to hold onto something up up in the ceiling.

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Speaker 3: And she says in forwards and sentences that I could understand, Hubert,

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Speaker 3: help me, Hubert, help me. You know, I can't do this.

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Speaker 3: Hubert help me. And I thought, oh, that's interesting. But

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Speaker 3: she's laid back down and then you know, went back

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Speaker 3: to sleep. When her daughter came back, I told her

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Speaker 3: what her mother had said. And the daughter was shocked

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Speaker 3: because Hubert was her mom's boyfriend that had died in

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Speaker 3: a motorcycle accident when she was seventeen. Yeah, daughter had

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Speaker 3: never met Hubert before. And also as mom was speaking,

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Speaker 3: you know, she had this very teenage coy girl thing

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Speaker 3: about her, like help me. You know, I don't know

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Speaker 3: how to do this. It was it was a you know,

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Speaker 3: nobody knows what it could be there, either hallucinations or

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Speaker 3: a link to another dimension that those of us that

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Speaker 3: don't carry that gift can't see and can't reach.

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Speaker 2: What is amazing? What's it like to die in your sleep?

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Speaker 3: I think that might be kind of cool for most people.

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Speaker 2: That's the best way to go.

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Speaker 3: I think you think that would be your ideal?

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I.

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Speaker 3: Think there'd probably be a good death for very many

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Speaker 3: people to not be conscious to what's happening. And yet

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Speaker 3: some people really want to live their deaths. They want

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Speaker 3: to be present for it the entire time and see

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Speaker 3: it going away and eyes open to whatever might be coming,

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Speaker 3: if there's anything.

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Speaker 2: Assuming there's another side, I assume if you die in

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Speaker 2: your sleep, let's listen to these two scenarios. If you

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Speaker 2: die in your sleep, your soul kind of like moves

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Speaker 2: out of the body and you just kind of look

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Speaker 2: at yourself and you move on. I would think, what

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Speaker 2: do you think possible?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you wake up elsewhere if at.

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Speaker 2: All, without any pain or anything. You just go.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you just go and maybe wake up someplaceful again.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm in no rush, but I think that's

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Speaker 2: the ideal way to go.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, do you have an age in mind.

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Speaker 2: One hundred and fifty.

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Speaker 3: Oh, well, that sounds painful. That's the way to do it, okay,

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Speaker 3: I wish that for you.

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Speaker 2: Are you on call most of the time.

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Speaker 3: I am on call a lot, especially as dying appears

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Speaker 3: to be imminent. But for you know, I spend probably

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Speaker 3: about half my time working with end of life planning clients,

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Speaker 3: healthy people that want to get their affairs in order

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Speaker 3: and do the comprehensive end of life planning past just

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Speaker 3: the medical decision making and into more care and comfort

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Speaker 3: and their body and their services and their possessions and

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Speaker 3: things of that sort. So about half the time I'm

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Speaker 3: working with those folks, and about the other half the

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Speaker 3: time I'm working with somebody who have and illness that

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Speaker 3: knows that dying will be occurring at some point in

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Speaker 3: the not so distant future and wants to wrap up

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Speaker 3: their affairs or be present for the things that may

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Speaker 3: still be undone in their lives.

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Speaker 2: How many people pass alua and they don't tie up their.

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Speaker 3: Affairs, many, very very many, very many. I like to

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Speaker 3: think that my work is encouraging people to get present

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Speaker 3: to their mortality now, so they can start not only

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Speaker 3: living the lives that they can eventually feel comfortable dying from.

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Speaker 3: But also they handle a lot of the practical matters

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Speaker 3: so that the people that they love aren't then trying

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Speaker 3: to go to bureaucracy and get things done when they

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Speaker 3: are in the midst of deep grief. That sounds really

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Speaker 3: cruel to me.

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Speaker 2: Generally, what's a funeral cost with a casket and all that.

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Speaker 3: It really depends on where you are, but it could

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Speaker 3: be about twelve to twenty thousand dollars.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people might not have that kind of

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Speaker 2: money available. But what do they do? What does the

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Speaker 2: living do when a loved one dies like that?

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Speaker 3: A lot of people go into debt, put it on

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Speaker 3: credit cards. They have a lot of folks I think,

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Speaker 3: have ideas about how to honor the person that they

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Speaker 3: love to diet and so they you know, they want

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Speaker 3: to send them off in the samsiest casket with oak,

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Speaker 3: even though they're just going to be sitting in the box,

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Speaker 3: deep in the ground in a concrete vault for a while.

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Speaker 3: So people end up the matching a lot of debt

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Speaker 3: to try to create these burials of funerals for people

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Speaker 3: that they cared about. When the person who died may

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Speaker 3: not want that at all, which is why it's really

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Speaker 3: really important to start having the conversations about what it

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Speaker 3: is that you want so your loved ones don't have

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Speaker 3: to incur that cost.

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Speaker 2: Do you do you assist them with that?

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Speaker 3: Yes. One of the things I really enjoy is to

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Speaker 3: sit next to somebody as they are going through what

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Speaker 3: the funeral might cost. You talk to them very clearly

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Speaker 3: about what it is that they're signing up for and

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Speaker 3: recognize either the importance of it to them or the

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Speaker 3: person who died, or not at all, so that they

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Speaker 3: can help save costs.

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