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Speaker 1: Live from the Mercedes Benz Interview Lounge.

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Speaker 2: Oh thank god, Nicole and Maria they finally made it. Yayay,

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Speaker 2: I love them. Nicole and Jimmie of course, Maria hugh

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Speaker 2: Kine Mom and daughter of course, the stars of our

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Speaker 2: Mother Knows Death podcast and the Oldestring Podcast Network. Man,

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Speaker 2: I'll just give give you a little business. By the way,

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Speaker 2: in all of our podcasts on our network, you guys

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Speaker 2: are one of the best. You guys are doing so well.

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Speaker 2: You're killing it.

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Speaker 3: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: Speaking of killing it, your weekly podcast, of course, focuses

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Speaker 2: on pathology, forensics, death, and you don't do it in

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Speaker 2: an overly clinical way. You guys talk about all these

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Speaker 2: incredible fun subjects in a way we understand what you're saying,

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Speaker 2: and I appreciate that.

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Speaker 4: Thanks. I feel like when I was in college, I

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Speaker 4: had a really hard time understanding all of these fancy

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Speaker 4: medical words, so I had to dumb it down for myself.

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Speaker 4: You know, I'm a high school drop bell well, so

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Speaker 4: you know I had to bring it down to my level.

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Speaker 4: But I feel like that that helps me explain it

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Speaker 4: to people better.

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Speaker 2: But both of you are I feel stupid after a

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Speaker 2: moment or both because you both are so educated, especially

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Speaker 2: you know, hyper focusing on pathology, and it's just don't

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Speaker 2: you feel like you learn something every time you hang

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Speaker 2: out with.

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Speaker 5: Them without a doubt. I mean, even if you just

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Speaker 5: follow them on Instagram or follow Mother Knows Death and

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Speaker 5: Missus and Jemmy on Instagram, you learned so much about

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Speaker 5: like mister diagnoses and all kinds of other things.

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Speaker 2: Well, Gonda, you brought them to us first. Yeah, you

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Speaker 2: had them on your podcast. What was it that was

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Speaker 2: so interesting to you about them that made us go,

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Speaker 2: oh my god? So you know what we were to

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Speaker 2: steal them from you.

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Speaker 5: I love women in science number one, so that is

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Speaker 5: always exciting to me. But the stories that they have,

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Speaker 5: especially Nicole about her time doing you know, pathology assistant

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Speaker 5: research and pulling things apart. And when she said, everything

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Speaker 5: that gets taken out of a body comes to her

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Speaker 5: and then she gets to analyze it and kind of

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Speaker 5: break like, figure out what happened here, what's going on

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Speaker 5: with it? I was rivetted, especially when you find out

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Speaker 5: some of the things that come out of a body.

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Speaker 2: So you would go in with all the pathology team

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Speaker 2: and after someone passes away, you go inside and try

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Speaker 2: to figure out why they died. So you're two.

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Speaker 4: Different There's two different divisions of our job, which is

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Speaker 4: one is surgical pathology. So any single thing that ever

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Speaker 4: gets taken out of a person's body goes to our lab.

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Speaker 4: So that could be something as simple as teeth or

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Speaker 4: a quarter a kid swallowed. Also really weird stuff people

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Speaker 4: put in their bodies.

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Speaker 5: A lot of guys tripping and fallen in the shower.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, guys landing. One thing.

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Speaker 1: What's the weirdest thing like to ever come to you?

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Speaker 4: I'm sure I've said this before. It's the half eaten pair.

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Speaker 2: I don't remember what there's a storymind it tell me

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Speaker 2: half eaten pairs.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, some woman put a pair in her husband's

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Speaker 4: rectum and started eating it and it got sucked up.

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Speaker 2: Okay, they say, ever put things in there that isn't connected.

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Speaker 4: Or broad based, like a ball and chain.

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Speaker 2: Wow, okay, but it was eaten and then.

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Speaker 5: But what's cool though, is like you know, she was

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Speaker 5: talking about teeth, but also a bullet. You will take

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Speaker 5: that and analyze that, right, or a breast implant.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, we got I have gotten a bullet before.

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Speaker 4: We don't commonly get them because they should go right

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Speaker 4: to the medical examiner's office with the body. But yeah,

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Speaker 4: I mean breast implants that fail, penis and plants that fail,

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Speaker 4: things like and obviously we get other things like breasts,

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Speaker 4: entire breast if a person has breast cancer, colon if

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Speaker 4: a person has colon cancers.

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Speaker 1: So when I had my breast reduced, they said that

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Speaker 1: they sent mine out to get checked. And that's how

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Speaker 1: I found out I was higher risk for breast cancer

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Speaker 1: because everything gets checked and they sent it out when

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Speaker 1: they take it out of your body.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so it would come to me and we would weigh,

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Speaker 4: especially in reduction cases. Sometimes the weight of it has

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Speaker 4: to do if insurance will pay for it or not,

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Speaker 4: if it's cosmetic, or if it's actually causing you medical problems.

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Speaker 4: And we cut it up and we look for tumors

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Speaker 4: and we have found incentental cancers and those. Wow. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: My thought is this, If I go into my doctor

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Speaker 2: every year for my physical, you know, they scan, they poke,

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Speaker 2: and prod and that's as bed as far as they

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Speaker 2: get blood. Of course, blood that helps. What is wrong

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Speaker 2: with the thought here? I just want to go in

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Speaker 2: as a somewhat healthy functioning guy. I want you to

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Speaker 2: put me on the table and just start digging around

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Speaker 2: in there and try to find something wrong with me.

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Speaker 4: Is that is that an autopsy?

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Speaker 2: I want to I want to be.

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Speaker 4: I want to as like being alive, you want.

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Speaker 2: I want to be a living autopsy?

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Speaker 4: All right, So this is what I would recommend to you.

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Speaker 4: They have these full body ct and MRIs you can

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Speaker 4: get as it doesn't have to be ordered by your doctor.

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Speaker 4: You can go and pay to get that done. That's

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Speaker 4: as close to you're getting. No one, no doctor's going

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Speaker 4: to caught you open and just peek around and make

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Speaker 4: sure everything's.

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Speaker 2: So why not? What's your problem? We could possibly go wrong.

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Speaker 4: Anytime you open the abdomen or the chest, you can

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Speaker 4: cause scarring and adhesions, which is how Lisa Marie Presley died.

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Speaker 2: Actually, oh what Lisa Marie Presley died because of scarring.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, from surgical adhesions.

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Speaker 2: Wow. Hey, let's talk about that for a second. Yes, okay,

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Speaker 2: So Nicole's writing a book about celebrity deaths. This is

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Speaker 2: going to be fascinating because we're fascinated with celebrity anyway,

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Speaker 2: but when they pass away sometimes we don't get the

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Speaker 2: whole story.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's often times wrong. So I've been writing

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Speaker 4: about celebrity deaths actually for the past five years, so

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Speaker 4: I have a collection of almost a hundred of them already.

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Speaker 4: And yeah, I mean it's it's really interesting. So I

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Speaker 4: started writing the book and I've only done nine so

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Speaker 4: far because I have till next year to write it.

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Speaker 4: So I've been just doing it every couple of days

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Speaker 4: and I start. But I'm doing everyone from really interesting

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Speaker 4: ones like Gene Hackman that just died, and higher profile

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Speaker 4: cases like Lisa Marie, but also older ones like Gilda

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Speaker 4: Radner and al Capone died from syphilis. It's just so interesting.

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Speaker 2: Wait wait, back up, Wow, al Capone, I can see.

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Speaker 2: But Gilda Radner died from so civil No, no.

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Speaker 4: No, she had a aryan kid. I'm just.

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Speaker 1: What about Amy Winehouse? Will she be in there?

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Speaker 4: Amy Winehouse will be in there. Yeah. I wrote about

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Speaker 4: her a couple of years ago because she died from

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Speaker 4: effects of the alcoholism. So it's it's going to be

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Speaker 4: really awesome. Really, it's it's comprehensive. It's not a lot

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Speaker 4: of reading, because I'm not a huge reader like that.

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Speaker 4: You could read one and be done and go back

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Speaker 4: to it. And start off. It's not a continuous book.

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Speaker 2: Like a fun little anthology. It's just like notes.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 5: One of the things that she said that I thought

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Speaker 5: was so fascinating. I think about it all the time

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Speaker 5: whenever we hear a cause of death now, is that

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Speaker 5: cardiac arrest as a cause of death is kind of

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Speaker 5: a cop out because everyone's gonna die when their heart stops,

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Speaker 5: of course, but what caused the heart to stop is

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Speaker 5: more interesting in what they kind of try to analyze that.

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Speaker 4: Michael Jackson was the most that's what they were saying.

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Speaker 4: He died of cardiac arrest. But cardiac arrest just meet

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Speaker 4: your heart stops, so like that's how everybody dies, right,

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Speaker 4: But yeah, so they just did it with Jane Goodall.

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Speaker 4: They just came out and said her cause of death

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Speaker 4: was cardiac arrest. I just saw it. And she died

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Speaker 4: from complications of old age, which.

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Speaker 3: Well, that was your favorite to you, right, because that's

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Speaker 3: how they said the Queen I died age.

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Speaker 2: Old age doesn't answer my question, like the body just

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Speaker 2: gives out?

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Speaker 5: What is it?

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Speaker 2: Okay, what's the scientific term for the body just gives up?

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Speaker 4: And there's things that happen as you age like your

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Speaker 4: blood vessels become weaker, and you can get calcifications and

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Speaker 4: things like that which can lead to stroke and coronary

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Speaker 4: artery disease and things like that. But that would be

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Speaker 4: what you put on the death certificate. That's what would

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Speaker 4: be the cause of death, not old age.

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Speaker 2: Old age.

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Speaker 4: I love it, and I use it in my lecture

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Speaker 4: as an example of her actual death certificate. It says

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Speaker 4: old agent.

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Speaker 2: That's wild in mine too.

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Speaker 4: And you know, in the hospital and stuff, we always

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Speaker 4: have doctors that put cardiac arrest and then we have

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Speaker 4: to go up to them and say this is this

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Speaker 4: is not a cause of death, like change it, figure

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Speaker 4: out what happened and be more specific.

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Speaker 3: So it's funny though, because we had an episode coming

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Speaker 3: out this week. Actually we had another expert justicine, Scott

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Speaker 3: Morgan on our show and the two of them are

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Speaker 3: geeking out about causes of death. And we were talking

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Speaker 3: about a story where a woman unfortunately was kicked in

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Speaker 3: the chest by a student and died. And I said,

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Speaker 3: as a layperson, I'm accepting a face value that she

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Speaker 3: just got kicked and died. And they're talking about all this.

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Speaker 3: You know, she could have her heart, could have stopped,

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Speaker 3: she could have had a clog, all this other stuff,

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Speaker 3: and I'm just mind blown by the.

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Speaker 2: Kicked and died my gesture certificate. I wanted to just

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Speaker 2: to say, just gave up. He just gave up, give up.

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Speaker 2: He was done. By the way, you're listening to Mother

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Speaker 2: Knows Death with Nicole and her daughter Maria Stars from

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Speaker 2: our podcast every week the pathology, forensics, death and fun

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Speaker 2: stuff that goes along with it. In your book though,

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Speaker 2: your anatomy book, Yes, what have you discovered in your

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Speaker 2: travels as far as pathology about the brain, Like what

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Speaker 2: has fascinated you?

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Speaker 4: Well, most people don't realize this, but there's specific you know,

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Speaker 4: there's specific brain surgeons. Well, there's specific pathologists that just

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Speaker 4: do brain and spinal quarter or the nervous system. And

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Speaker 4: so when we look when we take out a brain

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Speaker 4: and look at it autopsy, we're looking for something that's

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Speaker 4: blatantly obvious, like they had a stroke and aneurysm, there's

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Speaker 4: a tumor or something like that, but the very specific

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Speaker 4: neurological things that could happen to people. We take that

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Speaker 4: brain and we save it aside and a special neuropathologist

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Speaker 4: will dissect it days later and look at it and

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Speaker 4: come up with a diagnosis if it's something like more

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Speaker 4: specific like MS or als or something like that.

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Speaker 2: Yes, are you saying you didn't go to class on

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Speaker 2: brain day?

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Speaker 4: People exactly Like, it's a whole other field of medicine. Essentially,

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Speaker 4: it's just and it's it's very hard to tell. When

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Speaker 4: they slice the brain, they'll just look at it and say, oh,

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Speaker 4: this minute little thing is this and this. I mean,

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Speaker 4: you can't see things grossly with your naked eye, like

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Speaker 4: schizophrenic or something like that, but you could see Alzheimer's,

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Speaker 4: you could see CTE. The chronic traumatic encephalopathy is the

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Speaker 4: one that you associate with football players, you know, hitting

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Speaker 4: their head in multiple concussions, So you could see that.

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Speaker 4: But that's their specialty, and most regular doctors don't want

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Speaker 4: to deal with the brain because it's like a whole

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Speaker 4: other beast.

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Speaker 2: Wow, I bet well.

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Speaker 5: One of the things I learned from her about the brain,

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Speaker 5: and our dentist, Elvis, he listened to the podcast and

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Speaker 5: was so happy she brought it up was how very

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Speaker 5: closely your mouth is connected to your brain, and if

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Speaker 5: you do not take care of your mouth, what can happen?

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Speaker 2: To your brain. Maybe that's my problem. I'm possitive. I'm

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Speaker 2: going today, I'll have him do me right. Check that out?

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Speaker 5: Well, I mean essentially a cavity can kill you, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 4: It really can.

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Speaker 2: Talk about how they can kill you.

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Speaker 4: I actually had a really crazy case of a young

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Speaker 4: girl in her early twenties that had a wisdom tooth

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Speaker 4: pulled out, and then she just got a terrible infection

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Speaker 4: and we got her whole entire jaw resected that they

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Speaker 4: sent down to the lab because she had osteomylitis, which

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Speaker 4: is an infection in the bone, and they had to

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Speaker 4: remove her entire jaw because of it.

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Speaker 2: What's up scary? You know? I'm fascinated with the liver

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Speaker 2: because I know that that's associated with drinking and stuff.

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Speaker 2: Could you tell right away when you see a liver, like, oh,

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Speaker 2: that person drank a lot over their lifetime, and what

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Speaker 2: does that look like?

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Speaker 4: So first, when you drink a lot, you get your

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Speaker 4: liver starts to get replaced by fat and it gets

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Speaker 4: it actually gets bigger than it normally should get. And

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Speaker 4: it's really cool because sometimes when you open the body,

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Speaker 4: the liver's so big that you could see the impressions

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Speaker 4: from the ribs because it's pushing up against the ribs.

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Speaker 4: It's really I mean, it's not cool for them obviously,

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Speaker 4: but it's cool scientifically. And then once it has it

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Speaker 4: so fatty liver is considered to be reversible, so if

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Speaker 4: you ever get diagnosed with that, if you stop drinking,

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Speaker 4: it could go back to normal. But once it starts

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Speaker 4: scarring up, it gets cirrhosis, and then it starts to

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Speaker 4: shrink and it looks very nodular and it's very striking.

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Speaker 4: You can tell the difference and it becomes smaller, and

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Speaker 4: you also get associated things with that. You can get hemorrhoids,

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Speaker 4: and if there's any kind of a blockage of the

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Speaker 4: portal system, which is a part of the circulatory system

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Speaker 4: that goes through the liver, it can make blood back

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Speaker 4: up into the anus with hemorrhoids, and it could also

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Speaker 4: do it in the esophagus. You could get swelling in

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Speaker 4: the legs, you could get your spleen could get really big.

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Speaker 4: So there's kind of a pattern you see with it

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Speaker 4: as well.

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Speaker 2: So as you know, mother and daughter are doing a

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Speaker 2: podcast together, how much fun do you have when you

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Speaker 2: say in form of those microphones, both of you talk

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Speaker 2: to me about a topic or two you've had recently

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Speaker 2: on the podcast, where you just go on and on

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Speaker 2: because you're so excited about where you're going.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, we have fun, you know. We have some

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Speaker 3: stories where we end up going on tangents where we

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Speaker 3: start talking about personal stuff. We really love making fun

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Speaker 3: of my grandparents. They're such easy targets and our listeners

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Speaker 3: love hearing the stories, so those are always fun. Yesterday, though,

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Speaker 3: I went on especially a tangent about Kevin Federline's book

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Speaker 3: for probably way too long, and everybody didn't want to

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Speaker 3: hear about it. But I get passionate about things, and

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Speaker 3: I feel bad for Brittany so good yeah that and.

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Speaker 4: I have a different opinion, are you too? Yeah? So

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Speaker 4: that was like I was just like, nah, so yeah,

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Speaker 4: I just look at it like like he he bowed

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Speaker 4: her out, And this is some of the stuff that

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Speaker 4: was in that book. If it's true, is like if

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Speaker 4: that was a person that was living in your neighborhood,

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Speaker 4: you'd be like, that person's a scumbag. And she have

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Speaker 4: their kids, right, like, this is the.

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Speaker 1: Mother of his children, thank you, And she already has

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Speaker 1: issues that he has said she's help with So putting

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Speaker 1: this out there is not helping the woman.

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Speaker 4: And what are the kids thinking?

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Speaker 1: How can you do that to your children?

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Speaker 3: I agree, I think he's exploiting a mentally unwill persus

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Speaker 3: thank you. And it doesn't matter if the kids are

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Speaker 3: five or forty five. I just think there's a point

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Speaker 3: where you don't keep talking about it.

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Speaker 4: But but she said she wanted them dead.

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Speaker 3: How do we know she said that it's not there?

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Speaker 2: How do we know she's devolving into hell? Here we go?

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Speaker 2: He said.

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Speaker 5: She said, are there any celebrities that you look at

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Speaker 5: or people in general that you look at and you

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Speaker 5: can tell before you cut into them, before anything comes out,

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Speaker 5: that person has something going on. They're a little sick

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Speaker 5: and you know what it is?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, like that. And sometimes I see certain things like

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Speaker 4: one of one thing is is clubbing off the fingertips, right,

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Speaker 4: So it's very unusual, and I could pick it out

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Speaker 4: on a person if their fingertips, it's the certain way

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Speaker 4: that their fingernails look on the on the tips of

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Speaker 4: their fingers. And you can look at a person and

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Speaker 4: just say, okay, they might have some kind of lung

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Speaker 4: pathology or heart pathology going on.

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Speaker 2: It is something talk about like look at my Okay,

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Speaker 2: don't look at that one. A nail went through that

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Speaker 2: fingernail to ignore that one.

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Speaker 4: No, yours look fine. They look they look very specific.

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Speaker 4: I don't think anyone here if you had them, I

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Speaker 4: would be.

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Speaker 1: Like, yo, that's good to save your life.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I will tell somebody if I see something that

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Speaker 4: I think is alarming and she yells at me, because

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Speaker 4: I'll just say something to somebody at the mall sick.

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Speaker 2: I told stranger. Hey, by the way, I do.

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Speaker 4: I see people all the time, and especially with the

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Speaker 4: when I was writing the book, I see such rare

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Speaker 4: pathology sometimes that I'm like, oh god, I really just

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Speaker 4: I'm not trying to be rude, like I will. I

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Speaker 4: want them to tell their story. And I feel like

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Speaker 4: I feel like I do that because a lot of

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Speaker 4: times people look really unusual and people are not nice

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Speaker 4: to them, and they stare at them and they and

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Speaker 4: they're curious. But people are just curious and they just

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Speaker 4: want to know. And I think the more you just

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Speaker 4: talk about all these different conditions that people could have

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Speaker 4: and just it's normal, they won't feel so isolated.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I get that.

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Speaker 2: Do you have any podcast topics coming up that you

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Speaker 2: are just excited to push play on and let the

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Speaker 2: world here.

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Speaker 3: Yes, we are interviewing the prosecutor from the Golden State

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Speaker 3: killer case and that is one of my favorite true

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Speaker 3: crime cases.

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Speaker 2: Talk about it.

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Speaker 3: Ugh, So these crimes took place in California back in

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Speaker 3: the seventies. For a very long time, they believed it

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Speaker 3: was three different perpetrators. So one was just a man

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Speaker 3: burglarizing houses, the second was somebody committing sexual assault, and

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Speaker 3: the third was a murderer. And through all these years

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Speaker 3: they were able to tie them to one person. Really

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Speaker 3: through the help of Patt and Oswald's former wife, Michelle McNamara.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 3: So she really helped reopen that case and get some

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Speaker 3: traction behind it, and she unfortunately passed away before they

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Speaker 3: found the killer. But just in twenty eighteen, I believe

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Speaker 3: they were able to take DNA from a rape kit

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Speaker 3: and they found the man and he was in his

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Speaker 3: seventies living with his daughter and they arrested him. So

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Speaker 3: that was kind of a groundbreaking case for forensics using

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Speaker 3: DNA in that type of way. And we are very

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Speaker 3: fortunate to have the prosecutor coming on our show.

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Speaker 2: Wow. It's exciting. Yeah. So next time Nate's out murdering someone,

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Speaker 2: give him a little tip, what like, what are they

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Speaker 2: leaving behind? Maybe not your specialty, but I'm sure maybe

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Speaker 2: you've seen as far as evidence on a body, what

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Speaker 2: are we leaving behind? It's going to get us thrown

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Speaker 2: in prison?

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Speaker 3: Hair is number one. And then in the Idaho murder's case,

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Speaker 3: he left behind a fingerprint on the knight's sheath. They

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Speaker 3: were able to extract DNA from that. What else are

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Speaker 3: people even by? You know, people think they're just such

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Speaker 3: good criminals, and you would think they would get better

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Speaker 3: over time with all the access to internet and these

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Speaker 3: stories we have, but they're just getting worse.

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Speaker 2: Sloppy, sloppy work, Nate. Sorry, I'll do better next time.

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Speaker 5: Surely any DNA left behind bad idea?

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Speaker 4: Who else? Oh we have? So do you remember Gabby

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Speaker 4: Petito case? Yes? Yeah, So I'm interviewing her stepfather this week. Wow,

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Speaker 4: and that will be on next next week. We're doing that. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: So we're going to really just talk about that case

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Speaker 4: and just all of the trauma their family has been

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Speaker 4: through a lot of it. I haven't heard really on

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Speaker 4: the news or that perspective so I'm looking forward to that.

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Speaker 2: The podcast of Course Mother Knows Death, of Course Mom

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Speaker 2: and Daughter. It makes sense to me. You guys are

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Speaker 2: always so interesting when you come see us. Thank you

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Speaker 2: so much all day. Thank you, Thank you Nicole and Maria.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for coming in today. The podcast

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Speaker 2: of Course Mother Knows Death a part of the Elvis

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Speaker 2: Drean Podcast Network and doing brilliantly.

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Speaker 4: By the way, thank you work. Thanks for having us