1 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: In those days, the world of mirrors and the world 2 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:09,800 Speaker 1: of men were not as they are now, separate and unconnected. 3 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: They were, moreover, quite different from one another. Neither the creatures, 4 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,280 Speaker 1: nor the colors, nor the shapes of the two worlds 5 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 1: were the same. The two kingdoms, the specular and the human, 6 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:25,280 Speaker 1: lived in peace, and one could pass back and forth 7 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: through mirrors. One night, however, the people of the mirror 8 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 1: world invaded this world. Their strength was great, but after 9 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: many bloody battles, the magic of the Yellow Emperor prevailed. 10 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 1: The Emperor pushed back the invaders, imprisoned them within the mirrors, 11 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 1: and punished them by making them repeat, as though in 12 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 1: a kind of dream, all the actions of their human victors. 13 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 1: He stripped them of their strength and their own shape, 14 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 1: and reduced them to mere, servile reflections. One day, however, 15 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: they will throw off that magical lethargy. The first to 16 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: awaken will be the fish. Deep in the mirror. We 17 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 1: will perceive a very faint line, and the color of 18 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 1: this line will be like no other color. Later on, 19 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: other shapes will begin to stir. Little by little, they 20 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 1: will differ from us. Little by little. They will not 21 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 1: imitate us. They will break through the barrier of glass 22 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:29,959 Speaker 1: or metal, and this time will not be defeated. Welcome 23 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:31,960 Speaker 1: to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, the production of My 24 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 25 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and 26 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 1: today we're kicking off a series of episodes about the 27 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: mirror as a human invention. This is actually an idea 28 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: that I guess we talked about doing before, but but 29 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 1: it was prompted by a recent listener suggestion from a 30 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 1: listener named Heather. So thanks for the idea, Heather. Yeah, 31 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: this is this is gonna be one that will be 32 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: at least two episodes, maybe more, because there's so many 33 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 1: different angles you can take once you start gazing into 34 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:10,239 Speaker 1: the mirror. Uh, you have the history of the technology, 35 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:16,079 Speaker 1: various cultural traditions involving mirrors, the psychology of mirrors. So 36 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 1: we'll just see, we'll see how far we get and 37 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: if we ever make it back out again. You know, 38 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 1: that opening reading from Borges made me think, how do 39 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 1: you know that you're not the one inside the mirror 40 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 1: and that the the other side of the mirror is 41 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: the real world. That's a very bores question. To ask, yes, 42 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: um that that that cold opening is from animals that 43 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: live in the mirror, Which is a just a couple 44 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: of page section in the Book of Imaginary Beings by 45 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 1: jore Luis Borges, which is a fabulous little book. I 46 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:49,239 Speaker 1: recommend anyone interested in creatures and sort of poetic dreamlike 47 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:51,920 Speaker 1: interpretations of creatures to pick that up. It's it's a 48 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 1: lot of fun with Borges writing about established creatures from 49 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: different mythologies, but also as in this, seemingly you know, 50 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 1: just dreaming up something of his own, which which I 51 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:07,359 Speaker 1: like quite a bit. Um. He was certainly an author 52 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: who was captivated by by mirrors and additions in addition 53 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: to things like dreams and mazes, and he has other 54 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:16,800 Speaker 1: works that involved mirrors, such as Covered Mirrors, and also 55 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 1: an excellent poem simply titled Mirrors. Uh. There's one passage 56 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: from that that I always come back to. Uh. This 57 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 1: goes as follows. I see them as infinite elemental executors 58 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: of an ancient pact to multiply the world, like the 59 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: act of begetting sleepless bringing doom. So is the them 60 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 1: there the mirrors or the creatures inside the mirrors? It 61 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: is It's just the mirrors here, right, I think so, 62 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 1: I think he's just talking about mirrors in this case 63 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: as opposed to beings within the mirror. But I think 64 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:51,119 Speaker 1: one of the great things about both of these were 65 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: excited here is that that is that that Borges understood 66 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: the weirdness of mirrors in a way that I think 67 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: we all connect to it times. But then we're we 68 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 1: live in such a mirrored age that we we often 69 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 1: forget it. We often let the weirdness of mirrors pass 70 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: us by, uh. And it's only when we were reminded 71 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: of the strangeness of the whole scenario, uh, that that 72 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 1: once again we enter this kind of mindset. Also just 73 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: generally like bores to to read motivations into inanimate objects. 74 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 1: But another way I wanted to get us started today 75 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 1: is with a very strange fact that many people may 76 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,279 Speaker 1: have considered before, but many may not have. I don't 77 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: think I had really thought about this before we started 78 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 1: doing this episode. So I want you to start by 79 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: closing your eyes and picturing your own face. You got 80 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: it right, You know what you look like. So you 81 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 1: think about the lines, the colors, the proportions, um, maybe 82 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 1: the little asymmetries the way your hair parts, or maybe 83 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:55,679 Speaker 1: you have a mole on one side or one iris 84 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: that's a little bit different than the other. Uh. If 85 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:01,039 Speaker 1: you're practiced at getting photo graft, you probably know you 86 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: have a good side, right. You know, most people who 87 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 1: get their picture taken a lot, they figure out which 88 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 1: side of their face they like better, and they kind 89 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: of orient to position that one for the camera. But 90 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 1: now we want you to consider that it is almost 91 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 1: a guarantee that this face you're imagining right now, your 92 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,919 Speaker 1: own face, is not really what you look like to 93 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 1: other people. And this is not just because of the 94 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: fuzziness of memory and imagination, but because it's almost certain 95 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 1: that your mental image of your own face is based 96 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:37,719 Speaker 1: mostly on your experience of looking in a mirror, and 97 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: a mirror does not show you the version of yourself 98 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 1: that people see when they look at you, because, as 99 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: you know, the image in a mirror is reversed. Your 100 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 1: mental image of your own face, unless for some reason 101 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:53,679 Speaker 1: it's based on something other than looking in a mirror, 102 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:59,679 Speaker 1: is inverted from reality. Isn't that bizarre? It is? Yeah, again, 103 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,600 Speaker 1: this is something that I think most of us have 104 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 1: encountered since we're very young. You know it's it's it's 105 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:07,280 Speaker 1: one of the first sort of tricks of the mirrors 106 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: that you learn, uh, and we grow accustomed to it, 107 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 1: and then we forget that it's strange. Um. Another way 108 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 1: of thinking about this goes as follows. So, if you 109 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: hold a dagger in your right hand and you confront 110 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: your reflection in a mirror, like hold it out, brandish 111 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: the dagger against your reflection. Okay, you're holding it in 112 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: your right hand, but your reflection is technically holding the 113 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: dagger in its left hand. So this might again smack 114 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:36,279 Speaker 1: a bit of like like like an overstatement of the obvious. 115 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 1: But I think that's kind of shocking, you know, the 116 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: idea that that you are using opposite hands to hold it, 117 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 1: and not merely in a reflective sense. But if you 118 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: were to like take that individual out of the mirror, 119 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:48,840 Speaker 1: if they could actually climb out of the mirror and 120 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:51,799 Speaker 1: stand next to you, they would be holding their dagger 121 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: in the opposite hand. Another way of looking at it 122 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 1: is that the mirror world is a world of reversed chirality. 123 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 1: Chirality is a term that's often used to describe like molecules, 124 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 1: the handedness of molecules, so you can have a molecule 125 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: that has the same chemical constituents, but one is the 126 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: left handed orientation and the other is the right handed orientation. 127 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: The versions of images you see reflected in a mirror 128 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: have opposite chirality of the versions that exist in the 129 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: real world. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Now I have to admit 130 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 1: I had never thought about this dagger um explanation until 131 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 1: I was reading about the Great Perspective Glass, which was 132 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: in the possession of the Elizabethan Polly math and wizard 133 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 1: Dr John D. And as Benjamin Woolly points out in 134 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: his book The Queen's Conjure, Um, this was This is 135 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: one of several I think curios that Dr D kept 136 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: in his study. And you know, amid his library he 137 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: had a famous library of books, um. And there's another 138 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: mirror that he had in his possession that we'll get 139 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: to in a bit. But as far as the Great 140 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: Perspective Glass went, it was said that anyone who lunged 141 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: at the mirror with a dagger or sword found their 142 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: reflection lunging back at them with lie hand and weapon. 143 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: And again, of course this is not the typical way 144 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 1: of mirrors, and the effect was said to be quite unsettling. 145 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: You know, if you were visiting Dr D, he would 146 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: he would he might show you this mirror, and then 147 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: when you were you know, when you realize there was 148 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 1: something strange about this, he would explain the effect to 149 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: you via mathematics of perspective. So I found that interesting 150 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 1: as well, especially since Dr D was also very interested 151 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: in things like divination and um and uh and and 152 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 1: and you know, alchemical matters. Uh. This seems to be 153 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: an artifact that he would use to explain just merely 154 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: like the mathematics of perspective and optics. So it sounds 155 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 1: like what's being described here is something that you can 156 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 1: actually find today, known as a non reversing mirror, sometimes 157 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 1: called a true mirror. And this is typically done by 158 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 1: having two mirrors that are at a right angle to 159 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 1: each other, and then having the subject stands so that 160 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 1: they're looking at the at the vertex where these two 161 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 1: mirrors come together. Uh. And so the way that actually 162 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: works out is that the reflections of the mirrors are 163 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: reflected in the mirrors at the angles. So what you 164 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 1: actually see is your correct handed version of yourself. Yeah. Now, um, 165 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 1: one of these other mirrors survives to this day and 166 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: we'll get to it in a bit. But as far 167 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 1: as I know, the Great Perspective Glass either did not 168 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: survive or there's no there's no artifact that is now 169 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: known as the Great Perspective Glass. So I think it's 170 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 1: just mostly speculation and exactly what this mirror might have 171 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: looked like. But but I was looking around and I 172 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:45,560 Speaker 1: found that you had multiple optical devices at the time 173 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 1: were referred to with the term perspective. And we also 174 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:53,679 Speaker 1: see this reflected in the work of William Shakespeare. Uh, 175 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: there's a the for instance, the play Richard the Second. Uh, 176 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:01,439 Speaker 1: there's a there's a crucial scene that involves a mirror. 177 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 1: But there's some there's some wonderful lines that refer to it. 178 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 1: Quote for Sorrow's eye glazed with blinding tears, divides one 179 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 1: thing entire to many objects like perspectives, which rightly gazed 180 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:17,320 Speaker 1: upon show us nothing but confusion. I had to ride 181 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 1: distinguished form. Well, I'm still trying to sort that one out. 182 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 1: That that is complex imagery. Yeah, yeah, I don't think 183 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: Richard the Second has really been adapted as much, or 184 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:31,079 Speaker 1: perhaps has performed as much as some of the other plays. Um, 185 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:34,199 Speaker 1: but it looks like there was there was a recent 186 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: performance of it that was filmed um in Britain that 187 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:42,079 Speaker 1: had what I think Daniel Tennant in it, playing the 188 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 1: title role. But I was looking around online to find 189 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: some some footage of that particular scene and I couldn't. 190 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: I couldn't find it, So I have to admit it's 191 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:53,439 Speaker 1: not one of the Shakespeare plays that I'm super familiar with. 192 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 1: I know the movie adaptation of Richard the Third with 193 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,479 Speaker 1: Ian McKellen as Richard, and and it's got Jim Broadbent 194 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 1: as a particularly bizarre Buckingham. Uh. That's a good one. Yeah, 195 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,439 Speaker 1: I fondly remember that one for sure. Now all of 196 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: this reminds me of another reality about mirrors that I 197 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 1: think underlines just how strange they are to us, and 198 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 1: that is we tend to not really understand what we're 199 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: looking at with a mirror. I know this is one 200 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 1: of your favorite facts. This has come up several times. Yeah, 201 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 1: I have brought this up before. Um, this is really 202 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:29,680 Speaker 1: interesting though. So back in two thousand five, a psychology 203 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 1: study from the University of Liverpool judge that people tend 204 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 1: to not really understand how mirror reflections work. Specifically, they 205 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:39,960 Speaker 1: don't understand that the location of the viewer matters in 206 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: determining what is visible. So this study investigated people's perception 207 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 1: and knowledge of of a planner mirror reflections. One researcher 208 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: on this study, Dr Marco Bertamini, pointed out that the 209 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: Venus effect is a great example of this. So um 210 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 1: the Venus effect. It basically works like this. If you 211 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 1: consider the seventeen century painting UH the the the Rugby 212 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: Venus by Diego Velaquez, which you can you can look 213 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: up if you look up a picture of if you 214 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 1: just do a search for r O K E b 215 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 1: y Venus, you'll see this. It is uh a nude 216 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: woman reclined on uh sort of a bed and a 217 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:22,679 Speaker 1: cupid cherub type being is holding a mirror so that 218 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 1: she can look in it. She's looking away from us 219 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: the viewer. She's looking in the mirror, and we the viewer, 220 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 1: see her face in the mirror. And of course this 221 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 1: this raises the question what is she looking at in 222 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 1: the mirror? Well, we, as the viewer of this painting, 223 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:38,840 Speaker 1: we tend to assume she is looking at her own image. 224 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 1: This is some sort of a you know, a contemplation 225 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:44,319 Speaker 1: of vanity or what have you. But if we can 226 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: see her face, if you, the viewer, can see her 227 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: face in the mirror, that means she's looking at your face. 228 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 1: She's not looking at herself, she's looking at you. That's 229 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:57,559 Speaker 1: a good point. Yeah, I would not have noticed. I 230 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: initially saw this and assumes she was looking at herself. 231 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 1: But absolutely we see her face directly in this mirror, 232 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: and that means she would see our face directly in 233 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 1: the mirror. Because I think the the optics term for 234 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 1: this is that the on flat reflective surfaces, the angle 235 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:17,959 Speaker 1: of incidence of the light waves bouncing off is reproduced 236 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 1: across what's called the normal. So if you imagine a 237 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: line hitting the mirror perpendicular to the mirror surface, the 238 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 1: angle of viewing relative to that perpendicular line is then 239 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 1: reproduced on the other side of it. Yeah. So yeah, 240 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: that means if you can see their face, they can 241 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:37,559 Speaker 1: see your face. I want to read a quick quote 242 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 1: from Bertamini here in reference to this paper. He's quoted 243 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 1: as saying, quote, mirrors make us see virtual objects that 244 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 1: exist in a virtual world. They are windows onto this world. 245 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 1: On the one hand, we trust what we see, but 246 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 1: on the other hand, this is a world that we 247 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 1: know has no physical existence. This is one of the 248 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: reasons why aroout history, people have been fascinated by mirrors. 249 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: I know this is something I've brought up before, but 250 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 1: I think of fact that also helps explain why we 251 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 1: mirrors are weird to us is that if you ever 252 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 1: encounter a mirror in a video game, First of all, 253 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 1: there's a very good chance that the mirror does not work. 254 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 1: You know that it's just kind of a weird flat surface, 255 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 1: and you might just in passing say, huh, I wonder 256 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 1: why none of the mirrors in Silent Hill work. Is 257 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: maybe it's just because this is a haunted place and 258 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 1: mirrors don't work here. Um, But of course the reality 259 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 1: and I understand it's quite complicated. This changes with the 260 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 1: evolution of of of video game programming. But uh, it's 261 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: my understanding that yet to create a mirror, uh, it 262 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 1: requires a great deal of work, And if you encounter 263 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 1: a working mirror in a video game, it's essentially, um, 264 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: the programmer showing off to a certain extent, and that 265 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 1: in some of the older cases, at least, to create 266 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: the effect of a reflecting mirror in a video game 267 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: where you're you know, creature or being your avatar is reflected, 268 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: they would have to actually reproduce that being, So they 269 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: would have to do, in the context of the game 270 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: what a mirror appears to do in our reality. Right, 271 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: So like across from the bathroom, you would have a 272 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: a chirality reverse reflection of the bathroom with the same 273 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: with like a mirror image of your thing moving around 274 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 1: in there, and you're just seeing it through windows, as 275 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 1: if the Yellow Emperor has punished this other being and 276 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 1: made them stand in that little room and reproduce all 277 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 1: of your movements. That's great, this may have changed. I 278 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: don't know a lot about how video games work, but 279 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 1: you hear the phrase when people are bragging about how 280 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 1: cool the new video games and processors are and all 281 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 1: that they talk about ray tracing. I think that actually 282 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: does have to do with simulating the pathways of rays 283 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 1: of light. So maybe that would change how mirrors work 284 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: in games. I'm not sure. Yeah, it would make it 285 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: sounds like like it potentially could. Yeah, because we would 286 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: be talking about actually creating a virtual world with working 287 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 1: optics um which which I think is often one of 288 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: that Yeah. Well, once you start reading about how optics 289 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 1: have worked, how lighting a room works in a video game. 290 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: It gets uh, It's it's rather complicated, but fascinating and 291 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 1: ultimately makes you rethink about how light works in our 292 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: reality and how we perceive it to work. Right. Thank. Okay, So, 293 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: anytime we talk about an invention, we like to talk 294 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 1: about what came before, what was there before there was 295 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: such a thing as an artificial mirror, And in this case, 296 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 1: I think the evidence is pretty clear naturally reflective surfaces. 297 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 1: So I was looking around at some papers about the 298 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 1: prehistory of mirrors, and almost all authorities that I could 299 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: find seem to agree that, by far the most common 300 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 1: natural reflective surface for our pre technological ancestors would have 301 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 1: been a very still body of water. Now, of course, 302 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: not all all bodies of water are are useful in 303 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 1: this regard. Rushing rivers and ocean waves are not very reflective, 304 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: but still bodies of water, quiescent bodies of water under 305 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:15,640 Speaker 1: the right circumstances can form extremely clear reflective surfaces. So 306 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:19,679 Speaker 1: these in the natural world might have been pools or ponds, 307 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 1: or water collected in rock or clay containers. In fact, 308 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:26,919 Speaker 1: I was reading a paper about the the ancient history 309 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 1: of mirrors by a scholar named J. M. Enoch, published 310 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 1: in the journal Optometry and Vision Science in the year 311 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 1: two thousand six. It was called History of Mirrors dating 312 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:39,880 Speaker 1: back eight thousand years and Enoch points out something interesting 313 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:42,239 Speaker 1: that that I didn't find anywhere else. He says that 314 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: quote from approximately seven twenty two b c onward, Chinese 315 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 1: characters for mirrors, known as gion and jing were best 316 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:56,879 Speaker 1: translated as a large tub filled with water. Interesting. This 317 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: is a great point. Reminds me of a couple of things. 318 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:01,880 Speaker 1: First of all, obviously we have to acknowledge the myth 319 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 1: of Narcissus uh in the Greek tradition, the what the 320 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: mighty hunter who becomes captivated by his own reflection falls 321 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,440 Speaker 1: in love with his own reflection in the water. Right now, 322 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:14,640 Speaker 1: by the time that myth was flitting around, there were 323 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:18,159 Speaker 1: already artificial mirrors. But just the idea of looking in 324 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:21,199 Speaker 1: a still pond and seeing your reflection, it's clear that 325 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:23,720 Speaker 1: is a phenomenon that goes back, you know, as far 326 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 1: as as the history of the Earth, and so this 327 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 1: would have been something that was there was experienced by 328 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 1: not just our human ancestors, but pre human ancestors. This 329 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 1: also reminds me of the nineteen five Japanese anthology film 330 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: that some of you may have seen called Kaiden Um. 331 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:45,160 Speaker 1: It has a several different just very visual, almost psychedelic 332 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 1: um you know, haunted sequences. One of them is in 333 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:52,640 Speaker 1: a cup of tea, and it concerns a ghostly reflection 334 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: in a cup of tea, a reflection that doesn't match 335 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 1: up with the real world, and I've always found that 336 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 1: one particularly creepy. Well, think about how common mirrors are 337 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:06,360 Speaker 1: in horror movies. I think this is not a coincidence, 338 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:08,200 Speaker 1: And though this does play into it, I think it's 339 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 1: also not just the fact that you can close a 340 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 1: medicine cabinet door that has a mirror on it and 341 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: suddenly reveal something that wasn't there behind you before. Though 342 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,399 Speaker 1: that that's a big one. I think there's very clearly 343 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 1: a natural anxiety people have about things they might see 344 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 1: in a mirror that they don't expect to do, you 345 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 1: know what I mean. And like a lot of old 346 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 1: ghost stories concerned this, but but horror movies today are 347 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:34,639 Speaker 1: still reproducing this effect. There's something behind your shoulder that 348 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 1: you didn't expect to see their Yeah, yeah, I think 349 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: a great short story. Example of this can be found 350 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 1: in Stephen King's short story The Reaper's Image, which from 351 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:48,639 Speaker 1: my mind is just one of his absolute best best works. Uh. 352 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:52,159 Speaker 1: It concerns seeing something. It concerns a haunted mirror and 353 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:54,639 Speaker 1: things seen in a haunted mirror, And I have to 354 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:57,880 Speaker 1: admit I'm a sucker for a good haunted mirror movie. Um. 355 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:00,880 Speaker 1: The film Oculus comes to mind, which I think I've 356 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:02,879 Speaker 1: mentioned before, is a bit of a bit of a 357 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 1: gut punch of a film, but but it really does 358 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 1: some some fabulous things. It's been a long time I 359 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:11,159 Speaker 1: remember that one goes a lot more nuts than I 360 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 1: expected it too. Yeah. Yeah, they do some great stuff 361 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,880 Speaker 1: with like characters losing track of time and you really, 362 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,359 Speaker 1: you really grow to hate that mirror. We we've spoken 363 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 1: about films and what do you do with an inhuman 364 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: adversary and how do how do you depict them as 365 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:30,360 Speaker 1: having like a will and uh and actually being an 366 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 1: evil in the in a in a film, And they 367 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:35,119 Speaker 1: were able to pull that off in Oculus, Like you 368 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 1: really you really hate that haunted mirror by the end 369 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: of the film. Yeah. Now I wanted to take a 370 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 1: brief moment to uh, to do a digression on something 371 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 1: that I just thought was really interesting, Which are some 372 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: of the most amazing natural reflective surfaces on Earth, which 373 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 1: are flooded salt flats. For example, the biggest salt flat 374 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:58,920 Speaker 1: in the world, the Solar de Uni in the southwest 375 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 1: of Bolivia. This is actually it's it's a remarkable landscape. 376 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: It's been used as a set for a number of films. 377 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,159 Speaker 1: I think there was a battle sequence set here in 378 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,639 Speaker 1: the Last Jedi Um. But if you haven't seen pictures 379 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 1: of Solar de Uni, that's s A L A R 380 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 1: space D space U y U n I. It is 381 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:22,399 Speaker 1: absolutely magical looking it and it calls to mind the 382 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 1: you know, the Kenny Rogers song in The Big Lebowski 383 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 1: I tripped on a cloud and fell eight miles high. 384 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:30,399 Speaker 1: There's just photo after photo. This is clearly a heaven 385 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 1: for photographers and especially photographers who want to capture really psychedelic, 386 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: unreal looking imagery. And I found a really good one 387 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: that was highlighted on NASA's website that was taken by 388 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 1: someone named Jason Huerta or I'm not sure it's pronounced 389 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: Jason's j H E I s O N Wuerta, and 390 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: so a lot of these images show what looks like 391 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: someone just standing in infinity, like someone just standing in 392 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 1: the middle of a mirror that stretches to eternity in 393 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:04,920 Speaker 1: all directions. Yeah, it's like sky below, sky above, and 394 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,160 Speaker 1: then a person standing and possibly upon it, or standing 395 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 1: in some cases standing upon the feet of their own reflection. 396 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,359 Speaker 1: And it can be difficult to tell which side is 397 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: the reflection in which is the reality, right, and a 398 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,679 Speaker 1: lot of so the one highlighted by NASA is in 399 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,920 Speaker 1: the nighttime, but in the daytime, especially if there's a 400 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,719 Speaker 1: lot of cloud cover, you see all the clouds reflected 401 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,160 Speaker 1: in the in the surface of the of the Salt Flat, 402 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: and it's just unbelievable. But it's so remarkable looking, mainly 403 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:35,640 Speaker 1: because it is so flat and shallow. This the Salt 404 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:39,360 Speaker 1: Flat covers more than ten thousand square kilometers, and yet 405 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,679 Speaker 1: its altitude varies by no more than a few feet 406 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: across the entire plane. So when nearby lakes overflow during 407 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 1: the rainy season, the salt Flat will fill up with 408 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: a very shallow sea of water. I think the depth 409 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:55,919 Speaker 1: is never more than than a few feet. In some 410 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,679 Speaker 1: places it appears to be only inches deep, and that 411 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 1: means that it forms this gigantic, incredibly still puddle of 412 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:07,479 Speaker 1: water stretching for miles, and a very still puddle like 413 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: that can essentially create a gigantic mirror, reflecting the sky 414 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 1: all the way to the horizon, and in some places 415 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: you can just walk on it like it's so shallow 416 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 1: it looks like you are walking out over the mirror 417 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,679 Speaker 1: that goes on forever. So one thing I was wondering 418 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:27,680 Speaker 1: about is why exactly does water reflect images like this 419 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 1: while so many other materials don't. In researching this, it 420 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:33,440 Speaker 1: seems like this is one of those questions that has 421 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 1: a simple answer and a very complicated answer, and I 422 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:38,439 Speaker 1: think I'm going to stick with the simple one, at 423 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:42,640 Speaker 1: least for now. So the simple version is basically, all 424 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,959 Speaker 1: objects reflect light. That's how we can see them, right. 425 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,400 Speaker 1: You know, objects around you don't produce their own light. 426 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 1: They're reflecting light from the environment, from the sunlight, or 427 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 1: from light bulbs. And what makes mirrors or mirror like 428 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: pools of water special is the way they reflect the light. 429 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,640 Speaker 1: Whereas most objects tend to scatter the light, they reflect 430 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 1: in all different directions at once. Objects that form mirror 431 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: like reflections tend to reflect photons back in parallel instead 432 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,919 Speaker 1: of scattering them in different directions. Uh. And so you 433 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 1: can explain this basically in terms of things like still 434 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: water or mirrors being much smoother and flatter at the 435 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 1: molecular level than other surfaces. And by virtue of being 436 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:32,159 Speaker 1: smoother and flatter than other surfaces, the light that reflects 437 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 1: off of these materials stays organized in its original arrangement 438 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 1: rather than being bounced off in all different directions and 439 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,680 Speaker 1: turning the signal into noise, turning the original image into 440 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 1: just a blur. And there's actually a term for this 441 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:51,120 Speaker 1: in physics, in the physics of light. It's specular reflection 442 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:56,440 Speaker 1: versus diffuse reflection. So specular reflection specular means like a mirror. 443 00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:00,879 Speaker 1: Mirror like reflection versus diffuse reflection is the way most 444 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 1: things reflect light, just kind of bouncing it all over 445 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: the place. For a very rough analogy, you can kind 446 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:08,640 Speaker 1: of imagine you you line up a bunch of those 447 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 1: tennis ball shooter guns. I'm not sure what those are called, 448 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:15,359 Speaker 1: but you have played tennis with one of those things. Okay, well, 449 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:17,680 Speaker 1: they they've got them in some tennis clubs, they'll like 450 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 1: shoot tennis balls at you and you can hit them back. Uh. 451 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 1: So you take a bunch of those tennis ball shooter guns, 452 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,359 Speaker 1: you line them up in some kind of arrangement, and 453 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,879 Speaker 1: then you shoot them all at a wall. You can 454 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 1: imagine how this would go. If the wall is extremely flat, 455 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 1: the balls will probably bounce back in parallel in something 456 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 1: close to their original arrangement as they were shot at 457 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,439 Speaker 1: the wall. But if you shoot them at a wall 458 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,639 Speaker 1: that is not very flat, that has a bunch of 459 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 1: bumps and contours and different stuff poking out on it, 460 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 1: they will just bounce all over the place. Now, this 461 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 1: might be kind of confusing because you can think of 462 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:55,400 Speaker 1: all kinds of objects that seem perfectly smooth, and yet 463 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,399 Speaker 1: you can't see your reflection in them. Like a white 464 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: sheet of paper. You know, you're print our paper is 465 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 1: very smooth, and while it reflects a lot of light 466 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:06,879 Speaker 1: that's the you know, the white color coming off of it, 467 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:11,360 Speaker 1: it clearly isn't specular reflection. You can't see images reflected 468 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,680 Speaker 1: in it. So the main issue with surfaces like this 469 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,719 Speaker 1: is that, well, they might be relatively smooth at the 470 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:22,679 Speaker 1: macroscopic scale, at the microscopic scale. These surfaces are not 471 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 1: actually smooth. Now, remember when you're when you're talking about light, 472 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 1: the tennis balls you're shooting at the surface are photons, 473 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,400 Speaker 1: and so it matters is the molecular level, uh robb. 474 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,439 Speaker 1: I attached to picture for you to look at what 475 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 1: paper looks like under a scanning electron microscope, and it 476 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: is not smooth at all. Now. It looks like some 477 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:45,200 Speaker 1: sort of kind of like crazy fiber art or or 478 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 1: you know, if you'll occasionally find homemade paper that that 479 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,440 Speaker 1: looks like it's barely usable because it's so rustic and rough, 480 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: and you can see all the different grains and the 481 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,879 Speaker 1: you know, the the and the like the remnants of 482 00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,159 Speaker 1: plants in it. That's kind of what this looks like. 483 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:03,199 Speaker 1: It looks like a tattered portion of I don't know, 484 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,160 Speaker 1: some sort of a bog mummy shroud. Oh yeah, yeah, 485 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,400 Speaker 1: that's very good. It looks like a million mummies all 486 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 1: unraveled at the same time into a pile. And and 487 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 1: now you're using it to to print out your resume 488 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 1: or even a plate of noodles of some kind. It 489 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 1: has that more of that appearance than anything like a 490 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 1: flash sheet of paper. Yeah, it's made out of fibers. 491 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,400 Speaker 1: And and once you zoom into the level that would 492 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,919 Speaker 1: be relevant to how photons are reflected off of it, 493 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,920 Speaker 1: those fibers are incredibly apparent. But surfaces that produce a 494 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:36,639 Speaker 1: very clear specular reflection tend to be very smooth and flat, 495 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 1: even at the molecular level, so that they can again 496 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: reflect those rays of light in parallel formation instead of 497 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 1: scattering them all over the place. And uh, and I 498 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 1: think it's interesting to observe how sometimes even smooth, relatively 499 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 1: non reflective surfaces can start to display some amount of 500 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:58,920 Speaker 1: specular reflection when they become wet. So think about the 501 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 1: way that something that is normally not doesn't have specular 502 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:06,879 Speaker 1: reflection at all, you know, a rough concrete surface or 503 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 1: or black asphalt street, you know. But now imagine it's raining, 504 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 1: and suddenly these surfaces becomes slick with with rain water 505 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 1: they can start to turn into a kind of hazy 506 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 1: mirror in the rain. So what we're left with here 507 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 1: is that there are natural mirrors in the environment, mostly flat, shallow, 508 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,879 Speaker 1: stable bodies of water, and then there are also, you know, 509 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,680 Speaker 1: somewhat less clear but still at least partially mirror like 510 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 1: phenomena that occur transiently, say, just whenever it rains, and 511 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: certain types of surfaces get wet. Even a normally non 512 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,880 Speaker 1: reflective rock surface can start to become a little bit 513 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 1: like a mirror once it gets slicked with rain. So 514 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,720 Speaker 1: this experience of seeing reflections would go deep, deep, back 515 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: into prehistory. But I guess the question we want to 516 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: think as well. Okay, so a surface, a very still 517 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 1: surface of a pool can show you reflection. You might 518 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 1: see a very hazy reflection in a wet rock. But 519 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: what is the earliest evidence we have of people intentionally 520 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 1: making mirrors as a deliberate piece of technology, Because you 521 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 1: with a still pool of water, you can't take it 522 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 1: with you somewhere or hang it up on your wall. 523 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 1: What are the earliest artifact mirrors in the archaeological record? 524 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 1: And so what I found was that probably the oldest 525 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 1: mirrors made by humans were obsidian mirrors. The the oldest 526 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 1: examples of these, I believe, are still from Anatolia in 527 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 1: modern day Turkey, specifically found in graves associated with the 528 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:40,600 Speaker 1: Neolithic settlement of Chattelho Yok, which is an extremely fascinating 529 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 1: archaeological site. I know We've talked about it on the 530 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 1: show a number of times before, a kind of proto city. 531 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: Imagine a city without streets, with houses all bunched together 532 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 1: and sharing walls that you would access through openings in 533 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 1: the roofs of the houses and uh and you got 534 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 1: a very very interesting settlement. Lots of cool stuff about 535 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: that we can infer about their culture, religious beliefs and 536 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 1: all that, um, but also a very early site for 537 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 1: the discovery of mirrors. So again I want to reference 538 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 1: that paper I mentioned earlier by J. M. Enoch. Enoch 539 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 1: writes that archaeologists have found graves associated with the region 540 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 1: of Chattahoyak from approximately six thousand BC s that's roughly 541 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 1: eight thousand years ago. Uh. In these graves contained obsidian mirrors. 542 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 1: These mirrors were apparently made by taking a piece of obsidian, 543 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 1: grinding it down to a sort of circular, flat or 544 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 1: more often slightly convex surface, and polishing it until highly 545 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 1: smooth and reflective. And there's a picture that's reproduced in 546 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: enoch paper reproducing color I think because it's so striking 547 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 1: showing that in in full sunlight and daylight, this mirror 548 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 1: from the ancient ancient world still produces a pretty clear picture. 549 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 1: I mean, there is a certain darkness to it. It 550 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 1: is quite literally a black mirror, but you see color 551 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 1: in it, You see the you know, the details of 552 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 1: the face. It is an effective mirror. It's uh, you know, 553 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 1: it's if we were forced to use this today, obviously 554 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: there are certain places you would be able to use it. 555 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 1: You can't imagine your dentist using an obsidian mirror to uh, 556 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 1: you know, to to to look around in your mouth. 557 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,200 Speaker 1: But if you just had to use this in the morning, 558 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 1: I mean, it could work. This kind of reflection seems 559 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 1: like the sort of reflection you could theoretically like shave 560 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 1: by or apply makeup to that sort of thing. Now, 561 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 1: Obsidian to refresh is a glass like volcanic rock formed 562 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 1: by the rapid solidification of lava without crystallization. So it's 563 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 1: found in places that have undergone what's called rhyolitic eruptions, 564 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 1: So you can find these. You can find this occurring 565 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 1: in various places around the world where there's quickly cooling lava. 566 00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,720 Speaker 1: Humans have been drawn to it since prehistoric times, though 567 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 1: I've aously depending on where those humans are, they're going 568 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,960 Speaker 1: to have less or more access to it depending on 569 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 1: you know, what their their local environment is like, and 570 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,840 Speaker 1: how far they've they've traveled and how far they're trading. 571 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: Now we know this material as obsidian. Uh. And this apparently, 572 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 1: or at least this is what Plenty of the Elder 573 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 1: points out that it was discovered by a Roman explorer 574 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 1: by the name of Obsidious. You know, whilst traveling in Ethiopia. 575 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: Obsidia sounds like a pejorative adjective that I would have 576 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 1: to look up, you know, like a like an eighteenth 577 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 1: century document would insult someone by calling them obsidious. Yes, 578 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 1: here's a quote from Plenty in translation obviously quote. Among 579 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 1: the various kinds of glass, we may also reckon obsidian 580 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 1: glass a substance very similar to the stone which Obsidious 581 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,720 Speaker 1: discovered in Ethiopia. This stone is of a very dark 582 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 1: color and sometimes transparent, but it is dull to the 583 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 1: site and reflects when attached as a mirror to walls, 584 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 1: the shadow of the object rather than the image. Oh 585 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 1: what does that mean, the shadow rather than the image? Well, 586 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 1: I think this is you know, this is one of 587 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 1: those cases where we we have to re read into 588 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,760 Speaker 1: what plenties talking about here and assume that he might 589 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 1: be dealing with secondhand or third hand information about it. Uh, 590 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 1: And I guess it has to do with the sort 591 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,160 Speaker 1: of image you see reflected in obsidian that it may 592 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 1: it has a dark appearance to it, So I can 593 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,960 Speaker 1: imagine that being described as being oh well, it doesn't 594 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 1: actually reflect the image. It reflects the shadow of the image, 595 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 1: you know, almost like it's this kind of like a 596 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 1: window into a ring raithed world where everything has this 597 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:46,120 Speaker 1: darker semblance to itself. Oh yeah, that's interesting. And I 598 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 1: was wondering if it was possible that could be referring 599 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:52,160 Speaker 1: to the idea of the reversed handedness of the image 600 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,560 Speaker 1: in the mirror. But but then again, Plenty would have 601 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,160 Speaker 1: been familiar with mirrors. I mean, they had mirrors by 602 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:00,160 Speaker 1: the Roman period with with other types of mirror is 603 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,720 Speaker 1: made from other types of materials, so he, yeah, he 604 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:05,560 Speaker 1: would have been familiar with how mirrors worked and would 605 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 1: have known that generally they reflect a you know, an 606 00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:18,040 Speaker 1: image with reverse handedness. But there are several more things 607 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,880 Speaker 1: I wanted to note about the ancient Anatolian obsidian mirrors 608 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:24,479 Speaker 1: that are again brought up in that paper by Enoch. 609 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,240 Speaker 1: So one of the things is that he quotes a 610 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 1: a scholar named Dr James Connolly who's done work with 611 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 1: with chattahoyak In in this region. Uh Connolly giving his 612 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,640 Speaker 1: opinion that quote their uses mirrors in the sense that 613 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:43,279 Speaker 1: a reflective surface was the functional surface cannot be disputed, 614 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:46,280 Speaker 1: so Connolly saying, there's no confusion about what this artifact 615 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,960 Speaker 1: is supposed to be. Clearly, this is a mirror used 616 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:53,120 Speaker 1: for looking in and seeing a reflection. Uh. So descriptions 617 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,120 Speaker 1: of some of these artifacts. Enoch writes that one specimen 618 00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,800 Speaker 1: stands upright on a small flattened base, and the finest 619 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,400 Speaker 1: was set into lime plaster. These mirrors were believed to 620 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,400 Speaker 1: have originated in the graves of females based upon the 621 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:10,400 Speaker 1: contents of the grave. Okay, so these are typically grave goods, 622 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:14,520 Speaker 1: more often associated with women. They they are sometimes set 623 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:16,680 Speaker 1: into a kind of stand or have some kind of 624 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:21,360 Speaker 1: holder or handle. And then also uh Enoch rights quote. 625 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 1: Obsidian objects were among early exports from Anatolia, and they 626 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:30,440 Speaker 1: were used for spears, arrowheads and knives, axes, scrapers, and jewelry. 627 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,840 Speaker 1: It is reasonable to conjecture that mirrors were also exported 628 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,920 Speaker 1: from there. Connolly suggests that the first shaping slash grinding 629 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,560 Speaker 1: of an Anatolian mirror surface was quite coarse. The surface 630 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,719 Speaker 1: was then polished with a fine grained material such as 631 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:49,839 Speaker 1: silt and buffed with materials such as leather. Uh. And 632 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,560 Speaker 1: then I wanted to note another interesting thing I came 633 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,279 Speaker 1: across that this was just a note about the production 634 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,920 Speaker 1: of these mirrors. I mentioned already that the mirrors from 635 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,759 Speaker 1: the ancient world, Uh, sometimes we're slightly convex, So that 636 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,279 Speaker 1: would mean they're they're kind of like the mirror that 637 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 1: you would use to see around the corner when you're 638 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:09,839 Speaker 1: making a blind turn on the road. Right, Like, they 639 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,920 Speaker 1: bend outwards, So that's there. There are a cone that 640 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 1: points towards you in the middle, as opposed to concave, 641 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,600 Speaker 1: which would be more like a bowl bending away from 642 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,880 Speaker 1: you from your perspective. Convex is like a bowl upturned 643 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,320 Speaker 1: bending towards you. So why would they be a little 644 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:28,399 Speaker 1: bit convex. Well, I was reading an article in Archaeology 645 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:32,680 Speaker 1: Magazine by James F. Vetter called Grinding It Out that 646 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:38,360 Speaker 1: concerns these ancient obsidian mirrors, and it concerns experimental archaeology 647 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:42,880 Speaker 1: attempts to reproduce by hand these types of mirrors, given 648 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,880 Speaker 1: the the techniques and materials that would have been available 649 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,480 Speaker 1: to the ancient people who made them. And the interesting 650 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:50,160 Speaker 1: thing I wanted to notice in a is in a 651 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,319 Speaker 1: paragraph here that I'll just read from Vetter quote. All 652 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:57,319 Speaker 1: of the mirrors produced good images, and all were slightly convex, 653 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:02,200 Speaker 1: as expected from manual grinding, in which linear and rotary 654 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:06,560 Speaker 1: motions result in greater pressure being applied around the perimeter 655 00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 1: of the surface. The only technical reference that I've seen 656 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,000 Speaker 1: to an obsidian mirror from Chattahoya states that it is 657 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:17,200 Speaker 1: slightly convex. With special preparation of a core and great 658 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:20,600 Speaker 1: care during the grinding process, one could probably make a 659 00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:24,480 Speaker 1: nearly flat mirror with no obvious distortions in the image. 660 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,520 Speaker 1: So he's saying that if you are grinding and polishing 661 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:32,319 Speaker 1: an obsidian mirror by hand, it is just natural that 662 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 1: the process creates a mirror that is slightly convex because 663 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:39,200 Speaker 1: of the way you're like polishing it with circular motions, 664 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,080 Speaker 1: you tend to grind away the outer edge more than 665 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:45,080 Speaker 1: you grind away the middle. But anyway, this started getting 666 00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:47,600 Speaker 1: the gears turning in my brain because if you were 667 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:51,880 Speaker 1: living in a culture that did create artificial mirrors, but 668 00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:56,279 Speaker 1: just as a sort of byproduct of the of the 669 00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:00,319 Speaker 1: technical production process that creates the mirrors, the mirror you 670 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,359 Speaker 1: have is likely to be a little bit convex. Does 671 00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:07,680 Speaker 1: this change something about people's self image within these cultures? 672 00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:10,319 Speaker 1: The same way that our self image is distorted by 673 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,200 Speaker 1: the fact that all mirrors at least are basically all mirrors, 674 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:16,880 Speaker 1: reverses your handedness and gives you this inverted picture of 675 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,759 Speaker 1: your own face. Would people within say, an ancient Anatolian 676 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:25,879 Speaker 1: civilization that had slightly convex mirrors think of their own 677 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,600 Speaker 1: faces as slightly convex compared to what they actually were. 678 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,560 Speaker 1: I don't know, just something interesting to think about. And also, 679 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,600 Speaker 1: like you probably wouldn't want to overstate this, because again, 680 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:40,400 Speaker 1: these mirrors would not be extremely convex, just slightly convex, 681 00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,319 Speaker 1: but still might have some kind of effect on on 682 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,160 Speaker 1: how people viewed themselves. I mean, if you want to 683 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,680 Speaker 1: see what a convex uh, if you don't have a 684 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:50,600 Speaker 1: convex mirror and you want to see what your image 685 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:52,799 Speaker 1: would look like, they're just look at your reflection in 686 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:54,719 Speaker 1: the back of a spoon. All right, it would tend 687 00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:57,400 Speaker 1: to kind of like magnify and distort the features in 688 00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:59,839 Speaker 1: a in a somewhat strange way. Sometimes it will make 689 00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:02,920 Speaker 1: your your nose and middle of your face looked very big, 690 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,400 Speaker 1: and the outsides look kind of like they're receding away. 691 00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:09,719 Speaker 1: But it can also cause strange effects with say the 692 00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 1: perspectives of different objects being reflected at different distances from 693 00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:17,040 Speaker 1: a convex mirror. So, for example, I think of you 694 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:21,320 Speaker 1: know you talked about a poem about mirrors at the beginning. 695 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,320 Speaker 1: I think of the poem by John Ashbury self Portrait 696 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:26,400 Speaker 1: in the Convex Mirror. Do you know that one? I 697 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:28,759 Speaker 1: don't think I know this one? Now? Well, he's in 698 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:32,479 Speaker 1: this poem. He's talking about a painting by Parmesan Nino 699 00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:35,480 Speaker 1: of himself in a convex mirror. And uh and so 700 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,640 Speaker 1: Ashbury writes, as Parmesan Nino did it the right hand 701 00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:41,840 Speaker 1: bigger than the head, thrust at the viewer and swerving 702 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:46,919 Speaker 1: easily away, as though to protect whatever it advertises. So again, 703 00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:50,040 Speaker 1: I imagine the effect would be small here. But but yeah, 704 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:53,759 Speaker 1: I like this idea that the different physical properties of 705 00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:58,600 Speaker 1: mirrors could lead to different self image cultures. Yeah, absolutely, 706 00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:01,120 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess you would have to factor in 707 00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,760 Speaker 1: like when mirrors are used and how they're being used. 708 00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:08,479 Speaker 1: Are they being used casually by individuals just to see 709 00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:11,760 Speaker 1: what they look like, or are they more the domain 710 00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:16,520 Speaker 1: of like of priests and uh and religious authorities. Oh yeah, 711 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:18,520 Speaker 1: that's something I guess we haven't even really gotten much 712 00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:21,800 Speaker 1: into so far. Is is the religious use of mirrors, 713 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,840 Speaker 1: which does seem to be well attested in the ancient world, 714 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:29,000 Speaker 1: mirrors as devices for divination or other forms of religious rituals. 715 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:30,839 Speaker 1: And if you want to know more about that, you're 716 00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:33,000 Speaker 1: gonna have to come back for part two because we 717 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:37,000 Speaker 1: will pick up with more discussion of obsidian mirrors and 718 00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:42,239 Speaker 1: how they they factored into practices in Mesoamerica and in 719 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:44,839 Speaker 1: the pursuit of divination. So come back for part two 720 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:46,880 Speaker 1: and you'll be under the eye of the God of 721 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,480 Speaker 1: smoking mirrors, that's right. And who knows what else we'll 722 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,560 Speaker 1: get into, uh, you know, eventually we're definitely going to 723 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:56,440 Speaker 1: get into metal mirrors and the sort of mirrors of 724 00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:59,120 Speaker 1: that you know and love from the world around you 725 00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:02,360 Speaker 1: or have come to spies and and see as umu 726 00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:06,680 Speaker 1: as as perverse objects, so as as bores did in 727 00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:09,080 Speaker 1: that one poem. Uh. And then eventually I think we'll 728 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:12,640 Speaker 1: also get into some other examples of mirror psychology, like 729 00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:17,200 Speaker 1: what what happens when we are subjected to mirrors? How 730 00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:21,080 Speaker 1: does it change the way we think about ourselves or others? Uh? 731 00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:22,879 Speaker 1: So there's a lot of stuff to explore. We'll see, 732 00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:24,440 Speaker 1: we'll see if we can fit it all into a 733 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:26,600 Speaker 1: into just a second episode, but this might be a 734 00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:30,279 Speaker 1: topic that goes for a third episode or maybe even 735 00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:34,359 Speaker 1: more who knows, who knows, infinite episodes like and you know, 736 00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:39,319 Speaker 1: infinity mirrors. I'm down. Let's just keep buffing it all right. 737 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:41,319 Speaker 1: In the meantime, if you want to check out other 738 00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:43,680 Speaker 1: episodes of Stuff to Blow Your Mind, you can find 739 00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:46,360 Speaker 1: them in the Stuff to Blow your Mind podcast feed 740 00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,239 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. We have core episodes on 741 00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:53,319 Speaker 1: two season Thursdays, The Artifact on Wednesdays, Listener Mail on 742 00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:57,000 Speaker 1: Monday's Weird House cinemon Fridays. That's the episode where we 743 00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:00,120 Speaker 1: just talk about some sort of strange and interesting film. 744 00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:02,680 Speaker 1: And then on the weekend we have a rerun Gotta 745 00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:05,920 Speaker 1: Catch Ball Huge. Thanks as always to our excellent audio 746 00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:08,560 Speaker 1: producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to get 747 00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:10,920 Speaker 1: in touch with us with feedback on this episode or 748 00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,239 Speaker 1: any other, to suggest topic for the future, or just 749 00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:16,239 Speaker 1: to say hello, you can email us at contact at 750 00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:26,319 Speaker 1: stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow 751 00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:28,879 Speaker 1: Your Mind is production of I Heart Radio. For more 752 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,520 Speaker 1: podcasts for My heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, 753 00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:43,120 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listening to your favorite shows.