1
00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680
Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

2
00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

3
00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079
Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

4
00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,800
Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show.

5
00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,800
Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called

6
00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:32,400
Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer Paul.

7
00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:36,880
Speaker 1: Mission control decands. Most importantly, you are you. You are here,

8
00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:39,839
Speaker 1: and that makes this the stuff they don't want you

9
00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:44,320
Speaker 1: to know. Welcome back, fellow conspiracy realist. Earlier this week,

10
00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:48,959
Speaker 1: we began our sadly annual exploration of serial killers who

11
00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:53,320
Speaker 1: have yet to be apprehended. This is disturbing stuff and

12
00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:56,240
Speaker 1: as such it may not be appropriate for all listeners.

13
00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:01,080
Speaker 1: In previous episodes, Matt Nolan I discussed the rarity of

14
00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:07,960
Speaker 1: actual serial murderers. We discuss the legal definition of serial killers,

15
00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:12,319
Speaker 1: you know, the stuff that differentiates, say, a spree murderer

16
00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:16,800
Speaker 1: from a calculated murderer existing over time. We have also

17
00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:21,160
Speaker 1: looked at corruption and willful negligence on the part of

18
00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:27,160
Speaker 1: institutions that conveniently all too often turn a blind eye

19
00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:31,360
Speaker 1: to clear patterns, and we all of us hope we

20
00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:36,120
Speaker 1: can provide updates to these cases in the future. For that,

21
00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:40,880
Speaker 1: we need your help. Please listen closely. This is live fire.

22
00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:44,400
Speaker 1: Here are the facts. Let's just kind of throw everything

23
00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:48,240
Speaker 1: that you've seen in the media, you know, in fiction,

24
00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:52,920
Speaker 1: uh specifically, you know in fiction there's often with shows

25
00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:58,160
Speaker 1: like dexter Um, there's a certain glorification of serial killers.

26
00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:00,600
Speaker 1: I mean, he's a bit more on the vigil anti tip,

27
00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,120
Speaker 1: but even you know, there's a mystique and kind of

28
00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:06,840
Speaker 1: a mystery surrounding serial killers, like in movies like seven

29
00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:09,520
Speaker 1: for example, there they know something the rest of us

30
00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:13,080
Speaker 1: don't know. But then I appreciate you leaning into the

31
00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:16,880
Speaker 1: the very true um perspective that many of these folks

32
00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:20,680
Speaker 1: are severely mentally ill. They're damaged individuals and often are

33
00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:24,760
Speaker 1: not uh, the criminal masterminds they're made out to be

34
00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:29,040
Speaker 1: um in pop culture. Yeah, even somebody like Dennis Raider,

35
00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:33,919
Speaker 1: who successfully evaded capture for so long, dud. It had

36
00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:38,240
Speaker 1: nothing to do with his necessarily intelligence. It was more

37
00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:41,919
Speaker 1: in a few of the tactics that he had started

38
00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:45,800
Speaker 1: to use an employe and that's what kept him and

39
00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:49,079
Speaker 1: also being able to take extremely long cooling off periods.

40
00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:51,760
Speaker 1: I think that's what kept him from being caught for

41
00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:57,679
Speaker 1: so long. And that case is interesting because that individual

42
00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:05,560
Speaker 1: was apprehended due to a very simple error, literally sending

43
00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:08,840
Speaker 1: stuff that could be traced back to the church where

44
00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:14,880
Speaker 1: he worked. And also to compound the stupidity there, Uh,

45
00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:21,520
Speaker 1: this guy Dennis Rader wrote to law enforcements saying, hey,

46
00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:26,600
Speaker 1: I can send this to you anonymously, and they said, yeah, sure, pal,

47
00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,200
Speaker 1: go ahead, send it off. And then he got mad

48
00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:34,400
Speaker 1: when he got popped because he is, as you said, Noel, uh,

49
00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:38,400
Speaker 1: not intelligent. Very few of them are the myth of

50
00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:47,760
Speaker 1: a hannibal lecter, isnt nine just that a myth? We

51
00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:51,560
Speaker 1: also are going to talk a little bit about sample

52
00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:56,680
Speaker 1: size and the problem of figuring out the prevalence or

53
00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:03,040
Speaker 1: lack thereof, of actual serial killers. The people are rare folks, thankfully,

54
00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:07,360
Speaker 1: but they do exist. It's a matter of fact. There

55
00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:11,680
Speaker 1: may be one listening now. We won't know. Um, we

56
00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:15,240
Speaker 1: may never know. But you know, to the point about fiction,

57
00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:19,640
Speaker 1: maybe the best fictional depiction of these sorts of individuals

58
00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:23,279
Speaker 1: is found in the show mind Hunters. You guys remember

59
00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:28,120
Speaker 1: mind Hunters on Netflix. I think at two seasons, that's right. Unfortunately,

60
00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:30,920
Speaker 1: got canceled. I think it was pretty pricey. David Fincher

61
00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:33,440
Speaker 1: does a lot of takes, but uh yeah, really good.

62
00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,559
Speaker 1: That guy from who played was it Um the King

63
00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:40,400
Speaker 1: in uh in Hamilton's and also is in High School Musical,

64
00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:44,840
Speaker 1: he played a fantastic profiler in that show. Yeah. Mind

65
00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:51,320
Speaker 1: Hunters explores the genesis of modern profiling, and in that show,

66
00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:58,279
Speaker 1: the protagonist interview actual serial murderers with the aim being

67
00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:02,400
Speaker 1: to see what makes them tick. And in the age

68
00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:09,120
Speaker 1: of ubiquitous information, you are only one YouTube search away

69
00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:13,960
Speaker 1: from excerpts of interviews with murderers who were caught after

70
00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:18,240
Speaker 1: the fact, folks like Lonnie David Franklin Jr. The so

71
00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:23,039
Speaker 1: called grim sleeper. I'm saying so called because I have

72
00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:27,920
Speaker 1: some serious beef and dilemmas with with the way the

73
00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:32,720
Speaker 1: media identifies these folks. Typically, again, they exhibit lower than

74
00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:36,719
Speaker 1: average i Q. Right, And the ones that have been

75
00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:44,080
Speaker 1: caught are always on a degenerative spiral. Right, It's only

76
00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:48,960
Speaker 1: a matter of time. The vast majority, in some way,

77
00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:52,440
Speaker 1: you could argue, want to be caught. They want the notoriety,

78
00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:56,960
Speaker 1: they want the external validation. Above all, they want to

79
00:05:56,960 --> 00:06:02,320
Speaker 1: be important. And this second episode is not concerned with

80
00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:07,400
Speaker 1: that demographic. We all need to acknowledge that the conversation

81
00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:14,039
Speaker 1: surrounding quote unquote serial killers is unfortunately limited to only

82
00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:19,040
Speaker 1: those individuals who have been arrested, were identified, were charged,

83
00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:24,040
Speaker 1: if not convicted, of their crimes. So in this episode,

84
00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:27,120
Speaker 1: we're asking what about the other side of the equation,

85
00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:30,119
Speaker 1: what about the ones who can get away? We're gonna

86
00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,080
Speaker 1: pause for a word from our sponsor and we'll return.

87
00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:44,039
Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. We talked about the surveillance

88
00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:47,040
Speaker 1: state all the time on this show, and it is true.

89
00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,760
Speaker 1: If you are hearing this you live in a surveillance state,

90
00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,000
Speaker 1: you know you might be listening to this podcast on

91
00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,400
Speaker 1: your phone. If so, of course, thank you. But also,

92
00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:04,160
Speaker 1: your location is there, your your habits are there. You

93
00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:08,880
Speaker 1: know your phone knows you the abyss stairs back. So

94
00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:11,480
Speaker 1: it may surprise some of us to know that even

95
00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:17,640
Speaker 1: today in it is sadly, stupidly possible for an individual

96
00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:23,040
Speaker 1: to calculate and successfully carry out a homicide. There's a

97
00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:26,960
Speaker 1: brief but disturbing thought experiment we could set up to

98
00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:34,000
Speaker 1: explore this idea. Yeah, okay, who wants to take it?

99
00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:38,680
Speaker 1: It's solid though, it's solid It's true Ben did write

100
00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:45,920
Speaker 1: out this, uh description of how to serial kill. Well,

101
00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:49,320
Speaker 1: it's important to to, you know, identify the terms here

102
00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:52,880
Speaker 1: so we know what we're working with. Thought experiments here,

103
00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:59,600
Speaker 1: manual thought experiment. This is uh, this is in no

104
00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:03,360
Speaker 1: way just too real us condoning this. But yeah, but

105
00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:08,120
Speaker 1: maybe I think it's important, Matt Noel, it's important for

106
00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:12,480
Speaker 1: people to know this, this is plausible. All right, Well,

107
00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:15,920
Speaker 1: let's get started. Let's say you are an average individual

108
00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:21,080
Speaker 1: and you happen to be mail. You happen to have

109
00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:25,360
Speaker 1: an average or so height around an average height, average weight,

110
00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:28,880
Speaker 1: average build. Let's say you've got some kind of job

111
00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:32,120
Speaker 1: that requires you to travel, and generally when you travel,

112
00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:36,160
Speaker 1: it's two cities, cities that have a large population and

113
00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:41,720
Speaker 1: probably a relatively high death slash homicide rate. Yeah, alright,

114
00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:45,439
Speaker 1: so you're that person. You're the Honda Civic of America, right,

115
00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:50,800
Speaker 1: Someone who looks like you is everywhere and you are,

116
00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:54,480
Speaker 1: let's say, also tech savvy. You know your phone has

117
00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:58,920
Speaker 1: the capability to track you. You know also that any card,

118
00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:03,480
Speaker 1: a k on cash purchase you make can also be tracked.

119
00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:08,400
Speaker 1: But you also know the statistics. You know that st

120
00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:13,400
Speaker 1: Louis has about sixty nine murders per one thousand people

121
00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:18,840
Speaker 1: per year. You also know that places like Baltimore, New Orleans, Detroit, Cleveland,

122
00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:23,120
Speaker 1: and Las Vegas in that order, suffer from similar rates.

123
00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:28,760
Speaker 1: Knowing this information, would it be difficult for you to say,

124
00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:33,760
Speaker 1: attend to convention, a large sports game, any kind of

125
00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:37,640
Speaker 1: big to do under an official alibi. You're at work,

126
00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:42,280
Speaker 1: you know you're traveling, you leave your phone, a k

127
00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:46,679
Speaker 1: your location at your hotel, you head out into the night,

128
00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:49,839
Speaker 1: go on a night walk. Hey, everybody loves a good

129
00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:55,120
Speaker 1: night walk. But let's just say you were UM to

130
00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:59,480
Speaker 1: target someone on the fringes of society, like someone who

131
00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:04,920
Speaker 1: is without a home, UM, a sex worker, someone who's undocumented,

132
00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:09,920
Speaker 1: Folks who lack the kind of support networks UM and

133
00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:14,800
Speaker 1: frankly channels that they would even need to report uh

134
00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:17,760
Speaker 1: any crime to law enforcement because they stand the risk

135
00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:21,520
Speaker 1: of being out in and the prosecuted if they do. UM.

136
00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:24,920
Speaker 1: So this is this makes them unfortunately easy prey. So

137
00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:29,360
Speaker 1: that means that in this hypothetical, highly highly hypothetical situation,

138
00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:32,880
Speaker 1: UM you see it that way, you are identifying these

139
00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:36,240
Speaker 1: people as um easy pickings, the same way that you know,

140
00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:40,560
Speaker 1: you might someone walking alone at night might be targeted

141
00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:43,959
Speaker 1: as an easy mark, you know, for robbery. Um, this

142
00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:46,800
Speaker 1: goes further than that, you know, to to It extends

143
00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,200
Speaker 1: into like more of a big picture kind of like

144
00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:51,720
Speaker 1: how is this person going to Who's going to know

145
00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:53,760
Speaker 1: if this person goes missing, who's going to say anything

146
00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,520
Speaker 1: or do anything about it or even find out? How

147
00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:59,640
Speaker 1: long will this even go unreported? And you're you're banking

148
00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:01,480
Speaker 1: and hope that it will be quite a while, thus

149
00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:04,040
Speaker 1: allowing you to get away, get out of the area,

150
00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:07,600
Speaker 1: move on to other pastures. Once you get the hang

151
00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:10,880
Speaker 1: of this formula, then you kind of get yourself into

152
00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:14,240
Speaker 1: a routine of doing it this way, rents and repeat

153
00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:20,120
Speaker 1: a cycle. You know. That's why that's why interstates are

154
00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:24,320
Speaker 1: so dangerous in certain stretches of the United States and

155
00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:28,760
Speaker 1: Canada as well as Mexico, you know, all of North America, honestly,

156
00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:33,840
Speaker 1: and when we look at this stuff, we can begin

157
00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:38,520
Speaker 1: to assemble a pattern. The mission critical thing here is

158
00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:42,800
Speaker 1: for us all to acknowledge that the entirety of discourse

159
00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:47,920
Speaker 1: on serial murderers in the West today is based on

160
00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:52,280
Speaker 1: the people who got caught right and maybe they got

161
00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:55,840
Speaker 1: caught after they died. Maybe they got tied to some

162
00:11:56,040 --> 00:12:01,800
Speaker 1: DNA evidence. Maybe they turned themselves is in. Maybe, but

163
00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:05,640
Speaker 1: what about the ones who didn't. Uh, let's let's stick

164
00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:09,400
Speaker 1: with the interstate idea here. Let's go with some examples.

165
00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:14,760
Speaker 1: Let's talk about I seventy Interstate seventy in the spring

166
00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:18,400
Speaker 1: of nine two, kind of a long time ago. Now,

167
00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:24,400
Speaker 1: there was someone murdering at least six people in the Midwest,

168
00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:29,840
Speaker 1: and they tried to disguise these murders as garden variety

169
00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:33,320
Speaker 1: stick ups, but they were not smart enough to do so.

170
00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:37,640
Speaker 1: Each of these murders that we know of occurs just

171
00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:41,440
Speaker 1: a few miles off Interstate seventy. Now, if you are

172
00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:44,120
Speaker 1: a fan of road trips, you know that there is

173
00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:50,160
Speaker 1: a there's kind of a culture of interstate rest stops, right,

174
00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:53,640
Speaker 1: Like we all we've all been on the road and

175
00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:57,400
Speaker 1: we see, you know, a big gas station, of flying

176
00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:00,880
Speaker 1: j or a pilot or what's really popular are now BUCkies?

177
00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:03,720
Speaker 1: You guys hear about BUCkies. Yeah, those they're like really

178
00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,120
Speaker 1: popular in Texas. But they're like it's like a it's

179
00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:10,440
Speaker 1: like a gas station's last slash grocery store slash like

180
00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:15,679
Speaker 1: mini Walmart. In the cell y apparently right right, there's

181
00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:20,640
Speaker 1: this whole world of people that live kind of in

182
00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:23,720
Speaker 1: those gas stations, you know, that's where they stop and

183
00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:27,480
Speaker 1: get a shower, that's where they like answer their email,

184
00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:31,600
Speaker 1: et cetera. This person, and it does seem to be

185
00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:38,800
Speaker 1: one person, was not targeting those population centers. Instead, they

186
00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:45,040
Speaker 1: were looking for women working alone in specialty boutique stores. Yeah,

187
00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:48,040
Speaker 1: we can look at the first murder that happened on

188
00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:53,960
Speaker 1: April eight. The victims name was Robin fuldoer f u

189
00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:57,080
Speaker 1: l d A. You are. She was twenty six years old.

190
00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:01,679
Speaker 1: She was working at a payless shoe store when somebody

191
00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:06,280
Speaker 1: entered that store while she was alone. Besides this person, Uh,

192
00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:10,280
Speaker 1: somebody shot her and then put her body in the

193
00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:12,960
Speaker 1: back of the storage room or she was taken there

194
00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:15,480
Speaker 1: when she was shot. Uh. She was shot in the

195
00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:18,640
Speaker 1: store at all out one thirty PM and then discovered

196
00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:21,800
Speaker 1: about an hour and a half later during the day

197
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,320
Speaker 1: during the afternoon. When you think about serial killings, you

198
00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:28,800
Speaker 1: imagine it's at night, it's in some place that's isolated,

199
00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:31,120
Speaker 1: and you're in a placement room. Maybe you shouldn't be

200
00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:34,600
Speaker 1: right if you imagine yourself being a possible victim of

201
00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:38,000
Speaker 1: something like this. You don't imagine it's while you're at work,

202
00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:41,480
Speaker 1: while you feel safe and you're just doing the regular

203
00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:43,720
Speaker 1: thing that you're supposed to be doing. Yeah, that's right.

204
00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:47,760
Speaker 1: And um, you know, he had a particular type that

205
00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:51,480
Speaker 1: he was targeting as well. Um, it's particularly focused on young,

206
00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:56,040
Speaker 1: small of frame, brown haired women. Uh. In all of

207
00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:59,040
Speaker 1: the cases, there was a little bit of cash stolen

208
00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:03,240
Speaker 1: possible as a subterfuge, you know, to to you know,

209
00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:06,080
Speaker 1: throw investigators off the trail, make it look more like

210
00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:09,040
Speaker 1: a stick up, you know, or just you know, mugging. Uh.

211
00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:13,080
Speaker 1: And in each case, the murderer targeted these very kind

212
00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:17,680
Speaker 1: of niche specialty stores. In particular, he was attracted to

213
00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:23,360
Speaker 1: stores with female identifying names, which is very interesting, especially

214
00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:26,120
Speaker 1: if they were presented in you know, on a sign

215
00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:27,880
Speaker 1: you could see from the street, because that would have

216
00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:31,600
Speaker 1: attracted imagine there's maybe some phone book trolling that went

217
00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:34,520
Speaker 1: they went into this as well, but maybe just seeing

218
00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:36,080
Speaker 1: it from the street would have would have been enough

219
00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:39,840
Speaker 1: to trigger a little bit of recon Yeah, there's there's

220
00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:44,280
Speaker 1: only one victim that doesn't fit that profile, as a

221
00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:48,960
Speaker 1: male victim who was killed while working at his mother's

222
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:53,120
Speaker 1: ceramics store. And to your point, no, it does sound

223
00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:57,120
Speaker 1: like the guy was targeting places where he thought there

224
00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,840
Speaker 1: would be a woman working alone, maybe in the in

225
00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:02,920
Speaker 1: the slow shift in the cs the time of the

226
00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:09,560
Speaker 1: late afternoon. Investigators do suspect this killer assumed that there

227
00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:13,320
Speaker 1: would be a female identifying victim on their own in

228
00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:18,160
Speaker 1: the store they ran into a dude killed him anyhow,

229
00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:22,520
Speaker 1: and despite extensive media coverage, there have been no leads

230
00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:27,560
Speaker 1: on this case as of the time of recording, which means, again,

231
00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:32,000
Speaker 1: as we said in our previous episode, whomever is responsible

232
00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:36,440
Speaker 1: for this has either been arrested for something else, they're dead,

233
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:42,720
Speaker 1: or they are in a dormant period, because they always

234
00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:47,840
Speaker 1: come back, unfortunately, and this leads us to a more

235
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:52,920
Speaker 1: complicated case. If you go about a mile from Interstate

236
00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:59,400
Speaker 1: you will see a place called League City, Texas. In

237
00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:04,720
Speaker 1: Leagues City, Texas, there's a stretch of land about acres

238
00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:09,639
Speaker 1: or so with a very dark reputation. It is known

239
00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:15,679
Speaker 1: as the Killing Fields. Since the nineteen seventies, there have

240
00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:20,760
Speaker 1: been at least thirty bodies of murder victims found in

241
00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:25,720
Speaker 1: this area disposed of. This leads to investigators to suspect.

242
00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:30,800
Speaker 1: It is a dumping ground for not one, but multiple killers,

243
00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:36,960
Speaker 1: and most of these victims, strangely enough, fit similar profile,

244
00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:42,200
Speaker 1: mostly female, identifying anywhere between twelve to twenty five years

245
00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:47,639
Speaker 1: of age. And the strangest thing is that law enforcement

246
00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:56,240
Speaker 1: has I did conclusively like DNA based conclusively idd multiple murderers,

247
00:17:56,240 --> 00:18:02,639
Speaker 1: but still not all. Uh. It's astonishing that this case

248
00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:07,680
Speaker 1: doesn't get more investigation, doesn't get more acknowledgement. I can't

249
00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:12,160
Speaker 1: even call it a case. It's multiple cases, multiple cases. Yeah.

250
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:15,320
Speaker 1: The location really is creepy. It's got a weird air

251
00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:19,520
Speaker 1: about it. It feels like some kind of burial ground

252
00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:21,800
Speaker 1: or graveyard. I mean it is literally right, we know

253
00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:26,040
Speaker 1: this place where many many bodies were dumped. But because

254
00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:32,280
Speaker 1: it was at one time used, um by people who

255
00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:34,199
Speaker 1: are trying to get oil out of the ground, I

256
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:35,720
Speaker 1: thought you were I thought you were kind of making

257
00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,880
Speaker 1: a joke when you're saying it has uh like, what

258
00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,439
Speaker 1: was it a dark history? Because I was imagining the

259
00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:45,359
Speaker 1: oil that is underneath it, um. But to me, it's

260
00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:50,439
Speaker 1: the creepy factor of the killing fields is overwhelming because

261
00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,120
Speaker 1: you're the story as well, the location and the story,

262
00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:55,800
Speaker 1: because your mind goes to so many different places when

263
00:18:55,800 --> 00:19:00,399
Speaker 1: you think about multiple people using it as a dumping ground. Agree,

264
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:05,399
Speaker 1: because that means we can logically assume that some of

265
00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:11,320
Speaker 1: these murderers were at some point aware that there were

266
00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:18,000
Speaker 1: other operators involved, right someone, probably multiple people, I knew

267
00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:22,919
Speaker 1: that other people they may have never met. We're killing

268
00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:27,920
Speaker 1: folks and putting their bodies in this area, and they

269
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:32,280
Speaker 1: went with it and they got away, and right now,

270
00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:34,879
Speaker 1: you know, to be clear, folks, this is not a

271
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,760
Speaker 1: dan on Texas law enforcement. This is not a hit

272
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:44,480
Speaker 1: piece on law enforcement in general, honestly, because the professionals

273
00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:49,880
Speaker 1: there are working with the best information they have. Unfortunately,

274
00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:53,560
Speaker 1: they don't have all the information they need, which is

275
00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:57,280
Speaker 1: where you play a part. Not to sound too much

276
00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:01,760
Speaker 1: like we're America's most wanted or something, but this is

277
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:06,560
Speaker 1: a problem. The evidence is out there somewhere, and it

278
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:10,760
Speaker 1: is quite possible to bring closure for the survivors of

279
00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:16,320
Speaker 1: of these victims. I would say, not to soapbox. Yeah, agreed, um,

280
00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:21,440
Speaker 1: and uh, We've certainly seen longer time periods past than

281
00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:26,600
Speaker 1: this with with some resolution. So here's hoping that that

282
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:28,480
Speaker 1: they do get the justice, at the very least the

283
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,240
Speaker 1: peace of mind that that they deserve. Is creepy to

284
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:33,560
Speaker 1: think it is so close to Houston to guys like

285
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:36,400
Speaker 1: it's it's the suburbs of Houston in the place we're

286
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:44,120
Speaker 1: talking about, densely populated area. M This is troubling, troubling stuff.

287
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:50,200
Speaker 1: But we didn't want to end on a nihilistic note,

288
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,080
Speaker 1: so we're gonna pause for a word from our sponsors.

289
00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:56,840
Speaker 1: Stick with us, folks, we'll be back with something like

290
00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:05,840
Speaker 1: good news mhm. And we've returned. Let's stick to the

291
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,800
Speaker 1: interstates here in the US, but let's get a little

292
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:14,080
Speaker 1: bit of good news I sixty five. You know, we

293
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:19,399
Speaker 1: can at least bring some closure here. Someone did get caught,

294
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:23,320
Speaker 1: not in the perfect way, and people still died, but

295
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:27,520
Speaker 1: almost like the end of True Detective Season one, someone

296
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:30,399
Speaker 1: got identified and hopefully this brings a little bit of

297
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:33,760
Speaker 1: closure to the people involved. That's right. A gentleman by

298
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:38,880
Speaker 1: the name of Harry Edward Greenwell. For decades UM has

299
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:47,840
Speaker 1: been wandering through Um, Indiana and Kentucky, targeting women in motels. Um.

300
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:54,639
Speaker 1: The search for Greenwell began in nine when the first

301
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:59,720
Speaker 1: known victim, age forty one, was found assaulted and shot

302
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:03,240
Speaker 1: to behind the Super eight motel in Elizabethtown, Kentucky. UM.

303
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,720
Speaker 1: Greenwell was a native of Kentucky. He spent time in

304
00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:10,119
Speaker 1: prison for robbery UH, and then he worked on the

305
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:15,880
Speaker 1: railroads across the Midwest for years. UM. He died without

306
00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 1: answering for his crimes at home UM the age of

307
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 1: sixty eight from cancer in Iowa. So certainly not the

308
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:31,560
Speaker 1: type of and that someone of that level of depravity deserved.

309
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:35,240
Speaker 1: We're not here to pass judgment per se. But it

310
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:39,000
Speaker 1: doesn't seem right. UM. But there is good news because

311
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,040
Speaker 1: just this month, right as we record this episode, law

312
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:47,920
Speaker 1: enforcement have conclusively linked his d NA to the crimes. UM.

313
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 1: The I six killer was determined to be Greenwell. So

314
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,679
Speaker 1: even though he's not with us anymore and he in

315
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:02,480
Speaker 1: life evaded the law, at least the victims families know

316
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,119
Speaker 1: who did it and that he's not out there at

317
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 1: large anymore. I would say the alternative that being the

318
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:13,240
Speaker 1: alternative is uh is far, far worse. Um. It's not

319
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 1: the most comforting news in the world. But there's something

320
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,120
Speaker 1: you know, to add to give a little bit of closure,

321
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 1: uh and a feeling of some as semblance of justice

322
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 1: for the survivors. Yeah. And as a side note, when

323
00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:33,119
Speaker 1: Harry Edward Greenwell did die at sixty eight, that was

324
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:39,120
Speaker 1: two which you know, when you think about it's been gosh,

325
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 1: I's been nine years since since his death. But at

326
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 1: least they were able to find him, much in the

327
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 1: same way they were able to identify the the Golden

328
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 1: State Killer a k a. The original night Stalker. Um.

329
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:56,359
Speaker 1: I'm really hoping that technology continues, like forensic genealogy and

330
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 1: some of the other techniques, continues to catch people. And

331
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 1: even if it is like this with the case of

332
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 1: the just identifying who the person was, even if it's posthumously,

333
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 1: because it's it's at least that tiny little bit of

334
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 1: knowing or understanding what occurred. Agreed, and here for now

335
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 1: our story pauses, Folks. We would love to say it

336
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 1: ends here, but unfortunately this is not the case. If

337
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,919
Speaker 1: you were anyone you know suspects, they may have encountered

338
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:34,200
Speaker 1: something like the cases we outlined this week, and particularly

339
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:39,679
Speaker 1: if you feel local law enforcement has ignored reports, please

340
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:44,160
Speaker 1: do contact us and stay safe. We want to make

341
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:48,120
Speaker 1: sure that we keep eyes on these sorts of cases

342
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:53,400
Speaker 1: because they're real. They're real. It's actively stuff they don't

343
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,120
Speaker 1: want you to know. Here's how to find us online.

344
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. You can find us on Facebook where we

345
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 1: have the group Here's where gets crazy. Great place to

346
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,880
Speaker 1: reach out to some folks and start to threat about

347
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,119
Speaker 1: this very episode. We'd love to hear what you have

348
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 1: to think so much to unpack here in terms of

349
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:12,639
Speaker 1: the future of DNA being used. Take through these these

350
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,159
Speaker 1: you know, twenty three and me type tests, and we

351
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 1: know there's a double edged sword with those kinds of things,

352
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 1: and there's a sort of a slipper slope where there's

353
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 1: positive outcomes, but there's also privacy concerns. So let us

354
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 1: know what you think about that. If you don't want

355
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 1: to go onto Facebook, you can also find us on

356
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,199
Speaker 1: Twitter and YouTube. Were under the handle Conspiracy Stuff. On

357
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,680
Speaker 1: Instagram you can find us a conspiracy Stuff show. But wait,

358
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 1: one doing stuff can give us a telephone call. Pick

359
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 1: up your phone called one H three three st d

360
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:44,119
Speaker 1: w y t K. When you hear bends a voice

361
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 1: and the beat, you should leave a message. You've got

362
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,919
Speaker 1: three minutes. Please give yourself a nickname and let us

363
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 1: know if we can use your name and message on

364
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,160
Speaker 1: the air. If you've got more to say, they can

365
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 1: fit in that three minutes. Why not instead send us

366
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:01,399
Speaker 1: a good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at i

367
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:22,919
Speaker 1: heeart radio dot com. Stuff they don't want you to

368
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 1: know is a production of I heart Radio. For more

369
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 1: podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app,

370
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,439
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.