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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: All right, So, at the same time, we have some

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Speaker 2: very significant it's not just political news, but it is

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Speaker 2: also political news. Let's put this up on the screen.

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Speaker 2: So some aids are leaking to Politico that Trump is

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Speaker 2: saying Musk is going to leave soon. So let me

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Speaker 2: read you a little bit of this so you can

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Speaker 2: get the specifics here. President Donald Trump has told his

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Speaker 2: inner circle, including members of his cabinet, that Elon Musk

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Speaker 2: will be stepping back in the coming weeks from his

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Speaker 2: current role as government partner, ubiquitous cheerleader and Washington hatchetman.

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Speaker 2: President remains pleased with Musk and his Department of Government

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Speaker 2: efficiency initiative, but both men have decided in recent days

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Speaker 2: it will soon be time for Musk to return to

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Speaker 2: his business and take on a supporting role. According to

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Speaker 2: three Trump insiders, who of course remained anonymous, Musk's looming

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Speaker 2: exit comes as some Trump administration insiders and many outside

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Speaker 2: allies have become frustrated with his unpredictability and increasingly view

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Speaker 2: the billionaire as a political liability, a dynamic thrown into

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Speaker 2: Stark relief Tuesday after that Wisconsin Supreme Court race. It

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Speaker 2: also represents a shift in that relationship. However, they go

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Speaker 2: on to say that this doesn't mean that Elon will

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Speaker 2: be completely out of the loop. One senior administration official

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Speaker 2: said Musk is likely to retain an informal role as

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Speaker 2: an advisor, continued to be an occasional face. Another caution

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Speaker 2: that anyone who thinks Musk is going to disappear entirely

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Speaker 2: from Trump's orbit is quote fooling themselves. This comes on

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Speaker 2: the heels not only of that Wisconsin Supreme Court race,

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Speaker 2: where Elon went all in. He spent twenty six million dollars.

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Speaker 2: He flew there, he did an event, he gave out

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Speaker 2: million dollar checks. He was basically like bribing people to

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Speaker 2: vote for his candidate, and his candidate ends up losing

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Speaker 2: by ten points. But also Musk himself had been making

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Speaker 2: some noises about the temporary nature of his stay within

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Speaker 2: the federal government. Let's go ahead and take a listen

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Speaker 2: to what he told Brettbaer.

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Speaker 4: You technically are a special government employee and you're supposed

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Speaker 4: to be one hundred and thirty days. Are you going

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Speaker 4: to continue past that or do you think that's what

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Speaker 4: you're going to do?

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Speaker 5: Or well, I think we will accomplish most of the

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Speaker 5: work required to reduce the deficit by trillion dollars within

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Speaker 5: that timeframe.

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Speaker 4: So in that timeframe, one hundred and thirty days, and

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Speaker 4: the process is a report at some point at one

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Speaker 4: hundred days.

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Speaker 6: Not really a report.

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Speaker 5: We are cutting the waste improt in real time. So

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Speaker 5: every day that passes, our goal is to reduce the

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Speaker 5: waste and prod by four billion dollars a day, every day,

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Speaker 5: seven days a week, and so far we are succeeding.

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Speaker 2: So I think soccer. The easiest explanation here is that

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Speaker 2: Trump now sees Elon as a political loser and a

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Speaker 2: liability and wants to sort of distance himself from that

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Speaker 2: whole situation, especially after the big loss in Wisconsin.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's accurate now, probably.

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Speaker 2: Probably Ryan had a theory, an interesting theory, I don't

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Speaker 2: know if you listen. So others have floated this as well,

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Speaker 2: but he articulated. So there's a possibility that Trump believes

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Speaker 2: that Elon actually rigged the election in the fall, and

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Speaker 2: or at least isn't sure because you remember Rogan was

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Speaker 2: talking about like Elon knew before anybody that you know,

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Speaker 2: that he that he had won, and Elon's got starlink

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Speaker 2: and he's it's all computer right with Elon Musk, And

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Speaker 2: so it doesn't require you to believe he actually did

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Speaker 2: that to think that maybe Trump thinks that he actually

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Speaker 2: did that. And so if you have, that would explain

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Speaker 2: why he was so subservient to him long beyond what

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Speaker 2: you would expect. And now that you have the Wisconsin

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Speaker 2: result was like, oh, well, clearly you weren't able to

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Speaker 2: pull it off there, so I guess you didn't actually

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Speaker 2: ring the election for me in my favor. So now

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Speaker 2: I can be done with you. That was the theory

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Speaker 2: that Ryan flow, which I thought was kind of interesting.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: That requires some mental jiu jitsu that I'm not quite

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Speaker 3: ready to embrace.

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Speaker 1: The easiest explanation is that he just gave.

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Speaker 3: Him a quarter bill and that Trump is also just

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Speaker 3: look at Trump this time around. Trump has lost much

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Speaker 3: of his edge what his edge last time? And I

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Speaker 3: was especially during this whole Mike Walt saga, anybody who

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Speaker 3: looks like such a fucking idiot on television, that person

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Speaker 3: got fired in the first term.

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Speaker 1: I was there. I covered the entire thing. I watched

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Speaker 1: this happen over and over again.

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Speaker 3: If you had even one screw up like that, he

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Speaker 3: would call you, he would scream at you, and you

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Speaker 3: were done. I mean, it was, you know, one bad story.

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Speaker 3: If it was embarrassing, that was it with Elon and

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Speaker 3: with Mike Waller. Because it's not just Elon, it's actually

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Speaker 3: the whole government. Is that many of these guys, Howard Lutnick,

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Speaker 3: I mean, Lutnik has crashed to the stock market like

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Speaker 3: five different times.

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Speaker 2: That's likely inspiring. Also in this response.

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Speaker 3: Scott bess Is, I'm not even talking looking at a

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Speaker 3: mechanical level. He in his presentation. He's just bad at this.

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Speaker 3: Like his confirmation hearing was a disaster. He clearly does

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Speaker 3: not have confidence in his He clearly doesn't have confidence

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Speaker 3: in his public presentation. He was not prepared for primetime

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Speaker 3: at all. Whenever the stock market there was fluctuating. I

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Speaker 3: actually literally had the S and P live ticker and

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Speaker 3: my phone in front of me as he was on

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Speaker 3: Fox News. I was watching it drop as he continued

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Speaker 3: to speak.

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Speaker 1: That's not good.

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Speaker 3: It's like a Tim Geidner level situation from two thousand

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Speaker 3: and eight.

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Speaker 2: And the whole reason he was picked is because Trump

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Speaker 2: thought that he would inspire market confidence kind of.

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Speaker 3: I mean, bestent is one of those like more MAGA

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Speaker 3: friendly figures from Wall Street, Like he's somebody who made

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Speaker 3: his fortune trading, but he's actually expressed a lot more

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Speaker 3: nationalist beliefs about let's say the current deficits.

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Speaker 2: Yeah right, But he wanted someone who would have the

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Speaker 2: confidence of the markets, who also had some of those

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Speaker 2: like MAGA nationalist tendants exactly correct.

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Speaker 3: And he's just not doing a good job at a

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Speaker 3: community level. I'm just saying, basically, you know, you can

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Speaker 3: watch the results of that. He's not able to defend

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Speaker 3: the policy all that well, I think the reason is,

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Speaker 3: you know, not to make it even more about tariffs,

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Speaker 3: et cetera. But if we go back and look at

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Speaker 3: all of this, Elon has not tweeted once about the tariffs.

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Speaker 1: Have you noticed that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Terrifying.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Elon actually supported Javier Malay whenever he cut all

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Speaker 3: tariffs coming in and out of Argentina, which is kind

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Speaker 3: of hilarious. But if we think just about Elon generally,

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Speaker 3: he has become the lightning rod. He's destroying his own company,

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Speaker 3: and he made Trump made him the figure that we

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Speaker 3: will all remember the most about the first hundred days.

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Speaker 3: When the history is written of the first hundred days

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Speaker 3: of the Trump administration, we will remember two things. Today

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Speaker 3: quote liberation Day or I guess yesterday was Liberation Day.

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Speaker 3: I apologize Liberation Day, and we will remember dosh, That's

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Speaker 3: what we will remember the first one hundred days. Everything

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Speaker 3: else is bullshit that you'll really just it'll be footnotes

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Speaker 3: if it won't even make.

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Speaker 1: The Oxford history.

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Speaker 3: But those two things, you can say quite clearly, it's

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Speaker 3: obviously going to have the impact in terms of not

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Speaker 3: even what it necessarily did, but for the for the

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Speaker 3: implication internally of what he decided his presidency is about.

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Speaker 3: And so we can see that clearly by outsourcing much

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Speaker 3: of the spotlight and the fights. I mean, really, politics

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Speaker 3: is ultimately about the fights that you pick. That really

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Speaker 3: is what it's all about. Trump was a genius in

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Speaker 3: terms of picking those fights correctly during the campaign, but

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Speaker 3: this time around, like Doge, the idea of government efficiency

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Speaker 3: and all that was popular, but the more that you

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Speaker 3: saw it executed, it was just obviously stupid. It was haphazard,

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Speaker 3: It was you know, it was there was no consideration.

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Speaker 3: Elon himself is obviously not a good communicator. There is

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Speaker 3: insane amounts of conflicts of interest. He's also just kind

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Speaker 3: of an idiot in his general political presentation. And so

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Speaker 3: you see all of that showing up in the Wisconsin numbers,

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Speaker 3: and I think, you know, at the very least Trump

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Speaker 3: can conclude.

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Speaker 1: Oh, this is not good. This is becoming a problem

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Speaker 1: for me. Yeah, from Wisconsin.

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Speaker 2: Wisconsin made it very clear, and we can put there

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Speaker 2: there's a new poll of how people feel about you.

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Speaker 7: One.

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Speaker 2: They don't like this guy. He is not popular. Put

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Speaker 2: this up on the screen from Politico. So approval of

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Speaker 2: how he's handling his work at DOGE is at forty

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Speaker 2: one percent, with disapproval at fifty eight percent. For Musk himself,

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Speaker 2: the numbers are even worse. Sixty percent have an unfavorable

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Speaker 2: view of him compared with thirty eight percent that have

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Speaker 2: a favorable view. Yeah, I mean he has all of

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Speaker 2: the chaos and insanity of Trump and none of the

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Speaker 2: charm Doge. Listen it, honestly like it. It actually was

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Speaker 2: kind of hard to screw up this idea with the

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Speaker 2: American public because people are on board with, well, let's

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Speaker 2: make it more efficient, let's cut the fat whatever, like Rhetorically,

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Speaker 2: people were inclined to be on board with that, but

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Speaker 2: it became incredibly and immediately clear that's not what was

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Speaker 2: actually going on here. I mean, you have the level

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Speaker 2: of just like cruelty of celebrating people losing their jobs,

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Speaker 2: you know, and being asked, and you immediately get these

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Speaker 2: stories that are like, oh, the aren't some unsympathetic, pink

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Speaker 2: haired haired liberal weirdo. We're talking about huge numbers of

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Speaker 2: veterans who are losing their job. You're talking about just

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Speaker 2: like normal people who were trying to do their best

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Speaker 2: and are being unceremoniously kicked out. Then you see the level,

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Speaker 2: and this is so obvious to everyone. The richest man

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Speaker 2: on the planet, who has his hands and involved in

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Speaker 2: virtually every government agency is he's the one in charge

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Speaker 2: of this. And then we get the stories about, oh

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Speaker 2: look they changed this line item so that four hundred

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Speaker 2: million dollars we're going to Tesla. Oh look, he's at

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Speaker 2: the FAA and the SpaceX engineers are running around the

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Speaker 2: building and they're pushing contracts in his direction. Oh look

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Speaker 2: at that. These agencies that were previously investigating his companies,

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Speaker 2: now suddenly he's involved there, and those investigations are nowhere

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Speaker 2: to be found. So it did not take a rocket

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Speaker 2: scientist to see what was really going on here, and

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Speaker 2: to see that, you know. Also, I think probably the

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Speaker 2: most politically damaging is how aggressively he has both rhetorically

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Speaker 2: and in reality gone after the Social Security administration. These

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Speaker 2: things are profoundly, profoundly unpopular in a way that Donald

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Speaker 2: Trump always used to at least understand. And to your point,

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Speaker 2: which is one that you know, has been increasingly apparent

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Speaker 2: to me too, I do think Trump is way more

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Speaker 2: checked out of most of his administration now, I think

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Speaker 2: the tariff policy, I think that is all him, right,

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Speaker 2: all him and chat GPT. I think that is he

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Speaker 2: is leading the charge there. You can see in the

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Speaker 2: way Scott Bessont is so uncomfortable in defending it and

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Speaker 2: doesn't want to even speak in you know, specifics about

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Speaker 2: what this policy entails. I think that is all him.

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Speaker 2: But even in the leaked signal Gate chats, it's all

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Speaker 2: like it's like he completely deferred this important foreign policy

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Speaker 2: to this band of you know, idiots and wackos who

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Speaker 2: are there like kind of who don't even really seem

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Speaker 2: to know exactly what it is that Trump wants them

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Speaker 2: to do. So so many parts of this are his

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Speaker 2: hands off, and he's just handed it over to Elon Musk.

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Speaker 2: I think the other person that he's handed a lot

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Speaker 2: of his policy over to is Steven Miller.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, well, you know, even to be honest, I

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Speaker 3: don't see it though, because Stephen, you might be right

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Speaker 3: in the aliens enemies thing, but look at all the

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Speaker 3: other ls that the pro immigration side has taken. I

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Speaker 3: didn't bring this up because I heard it had too

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Speaker 3: much to say about tariffs. But an hour into the talk,

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Speaker 3: Trump said by the way, we need a lot more

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Speaker 3: legal immigrants to fill all these manufacturing jobs. I was like,

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Speaker 3: wait what, I was like, excuse me, what's going on there?

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Speaker 3: So that's not even an H one B argument, right,

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Speaker 3: He's making that the argument that we need more workers

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Speaker 3: to replace or okay, sorry, to fill all these brand

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Speaker 3: new manufacturing jobs that you're taking. I know for a

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Speaker 3: fact that Steven Miller of them have been fighting against

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Speaker 3: that behind the scenes. So Stephen Miller, yes, he got

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Speaker 3: his Alien Enemies Act, but I mean, there's been no

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Speaker 3: change on H one B. Trump is out there basically

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Speaker 3: like simultaneously endorsing McKinley esque tariff policy but then neoliberal

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Speaker 3: immigration policy. These don't make any sense. I would say

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Speaker 3: Elon has been empowered. And also what I noticed the

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Speaker 3: most about Trump is I don't think they necessarily planned

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Speaker 3: this whole thing with Elon, but then what happened when

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Speaker 3: Elon became a lightning rod. Trump is obsessed with quote

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Speaker 3: not giving a scalp. Even behind the scenes, It's obvious

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Speaker 3: he thinks Michael Waltz's an idiot, but he doesn't want

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Speaker 3: to fire.

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Speaker 1: Him because it would mean vindicating Jeffrey Goldberg.

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Speaker 3: Well with Elon, who has become you know, this liberal

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Speaker 3: like lightning Rod, same thing. He doesn't want to give

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Speaker 3: his enemies a scalp, phase him out.

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Speaker 1: Or whatever over a period.

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Speaker 3: But I mean, the issue is just the amount of

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Speaker 3: damage that they're doing in the interim. Look at the

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Speaker 3: wisconsinant numbers. We haven't even gotten a chance to really

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Speaker 3: react here. I mean, that was a mid term level

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Speaker 3: turnout for some freaking judges race. I couldn't even tell

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Speaker 3: you the judge where I come from is. And that's

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Speaker 3: you know, Wisconsin voters were like, we got more ads

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Speaker 3: on our TVs, and we had more touch points, and

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Speaker 3: we did it in the presidential election over this whole thing.

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Speaker 1: That's the number of Democrats that came up to it.

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Speaker 1: And it wasn't even close. It was like fifty five

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Speaker 1: forty five.

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Speaker 2: Yeah victories.

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Speaker 1: It's insane.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Now think about what's going to happen here in Virginia.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, what Spanberger? What do you think he's

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Speaker 3: gonna win by twenty points? It's going to be unbelievable.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, that's where the Elon problem is in. You know,

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Speaker 3: by not quote giving the enemy a scalp, you're creating

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Speaker 3: a massive, massive political problem.

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Speaker 2: I don't think Shump cares though, like don't I don't

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Speaker 2: think he cares about the midterms. I think I think

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Speaker 2: he already expects Republicans are going to lose the House

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Speaker 2: in the midterms, and so I don't know that that's

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Speaker 2: really all that important to him. And so, you know, more,

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Speaker 2: he's less concerned about electoral fallout, and he's more concerned about,

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Speaker 2: you know, him being able to exercise maximal amounts of

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Speaker 2: power and uh enforce maximal amounts of fealty. And so

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Speaker 2: that's where you know, the terrorists come in and the

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Speaker 2: media tacks University, all of those sorts of things. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's a I think a really good insight with regard

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Speaker 2: to him not wanting to give in to like the

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Speaker 2: liberals or the liberal media or whatever with regard to

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Speaker 2: Elon Yes, especially when they immediately started cheering doing the

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Speaker 2: like he's the co president, and when they immediately started

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Speaker 2: predicting like, oh, there's no way that these two are

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Speaker 2: going to be able to coexist and Trump's going to

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Speaker 2: fire him. And then I also think that Trump is

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Speaker 2: so enamored with money and so enamored also with like

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Speaker 2: IQ that I think he's kind of he is a

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Speaker 2: little spell bound by Elon too, Like I think Elon

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Speaker 2: was able to extor. Trump has his own reality distortion

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Speaker 2: field that comes more from his like, you know, his

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Speaker 2: charm and this giant personality. Elon has a reality distortion

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Speaker 2: field that comes from you know, him positioning himself as

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Speaker 2: this like grand great man and he's the richest man

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Speaker 2: on the planet, and that's what Trump ultimately respects. So

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Speaker 2: I do think that he was also a little bit

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Speaker 2: spell bound by Elon.

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Speaker 1: I think that's certainly part of it. All right, should

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Speaker 1: we talk about Tesla.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So while this political fallout is unfolding, for Elon,

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Speaker 2: business faultlund is also unfolding. We can put this up

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Speaker 2: on the screen. Tesla deliveries came in way below even expectations,

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Speaker 2: which the expectations were already not good, but they sank

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Speaker 2: thirteen percent in the first quarter compared to where they

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Speaker 2: were last year. So I'll go ahead and read you

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Speaker 2: a little bit of this article. Tesla's global vehicle deliveries

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Speaker 2: fell thirteen percent in the first quarter from a year ago,

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Speaker 2: further evidence that a growing consumer backlash against the brand

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Speaker 2: and Elon Musk is hurting the automaker's business. The final

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Speaker 2: quarterly tally of three hundred and thirty six thousand missed

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Speaker 2: analyst expectations of three hundred ninety six thousand delivery deliveries.

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Speaker 2: According to Visible Alpha, Tesla shares fell. We'll see what

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Speaker 2: Tesla shares do today whenever Marget's open. Yeah, it's going

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Speaker 2: to be you know, it's going to be not good

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Speaker 2: for them. But you know, some of this is not

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Speaker 2: just Elon being this incredibly divisive, toxic lightning rod figure.

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Speaker 2: And remember it's not just our politics. Obviously he's been

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Speaker 2: the most front and center, but it's not just our politics.

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Speaker 2: He also has been tweeting about all kinds of countries

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Speaker 2: around the world, but specifically intervened in Germany, specifically intervened

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Speaker 2: in the UK. And you have to remember who is

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Speaker 2: like the typical EV buyer. These tend to be more

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Speaker 2: liberal types. So when you have someone who has aligned

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Speaker 2: himself in such an aggressive, partisan, outspoken way owning Twitter

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Speaker 2: as well with far right movements not just here but

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Speaker 2: around the world, yeah, there's going to be incredible fallout.

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Speaker 2: And at the same time you have other EV makers,

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Speaker 2: byd being the most prominent of them, but others as

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Speaker 2: well who are really competing.

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Speaker 6: Now.

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Speaker 2: You know, for a while, Tesla was really kind of

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Speaker 2: even in the US, was really the only EV game

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Speaker 2: in town, so to speak. And now even in terms

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Speaker 2: of US automakers, you have, you know, increasing competition in

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Speaker 2: the market, and so it's the perfect storm for a

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Speaker 2: catastrophic fallout for Tesla as a company. And the board

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Speaker 2: is really stocked with Elon, like total loyal like his

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Speaker 2: brothers on the board for example. So you would think

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Speaker 2: maybe the company at some point would be like, you know,

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Speaker 2: being so closely associated with this guy is not really

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Speaker 2: working out for our brand. But I don't think there's

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Speaker 2: any Oh, they can't. He's not in any kind of

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Speaker 2: danger of that because they were specifically selected to be

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Speaker 2: with him.

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Speaker 3: No matter what, there are two things can be true.

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Speaker 3: Tesla would never be where it was today without Elon,

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Speaker 3: and also, Tesla's downfall, if it does come, will be

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Speaker 3: because of you, and that's rarely where things are. Right now,

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Speaker 3: go and put this next one up on the screen,

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Speaker 3: because this is where all of my attention is right now,

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Speaker 3: at the very same time that you're seeing global market

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Speaker 3: drop for Tesla, which let's face it, like you said,

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Speaker 3: it's the premiere electric vehicle made by the United States

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Speaker 3: and one of our exports. It was one of the

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Speaker 3: crown jewels actually of major US economy. And if you

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Speaker 3: think about it, this is an auto company startup that

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Speaker 3: was able to export and become a brand and bestseller

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Speaker 3: across the world. That's one of the best case scenarios

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Speaker 3: you could actually make for a US company. But at

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Speaker 3: the same time, what we've been talking a lot about

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Speaker 3: in the last several months is BYD and BYD sales

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Speaker 3: have now topped one hundred billion for the very first time. Actually,

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Speaker 3: their demand is exploding right now. Their revenue is up

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Speaker 3: twenty nine percent from last year, and actually you have

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Speaker 3: seen increases in the very same markets where you are

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Speaker 3: seeing Tesla decrease. Right Remember, the rest of the world

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Speaker 3: doesn't necessarily ban Chinese electric vehicles the way that we do,

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Speaker 3: and they're cheaper. That's the other extraordinary thing. Tesla's revenue

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Speaker 3: and BYD revenue can be roughly similar. Bid has to

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Speaker 3: sell three times a number of cars that Tesla does

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Speaker 3: to be able to reach that same level. Now, of course,

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Speaker 3: they have access to China, the world's greatest consumer market,

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Speaker 3: so you know, there are a lot of other mitigating factors,

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Speaker 3: but look, you just can't simply sit here and deny

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Speaker 3: that this is not a even bigger problem. This is

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Speaker 3: not a big problem for Tesla because what is happening

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Speaker 3: in Germany, in Mexico. I mean, the entire idea of Tesla.

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Speaker 3: Their strategy is they basically had to choose, we're going

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Speaker 3: to be a luxury brand or we're going to a brand

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Speaker 3: that is to the everyday person that was there. You know,

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Speaker 3: they went for the Model three. That was really what

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Speaker 3: made it a multi trillion dollar company. Well that's what

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Speaker 3: we're sorry, multi billion dollar company. What their strategy is

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Speaker 3: to sell as many of these Eca threes and whys

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Speaker 3: as possible to you know, the average consumer, and to

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Speaker 3: make it so that the everyday man could afford it

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Speaker 3: and to be into one, as opposed to some sort

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Speaker 3: of luxury vehicle strategy. Well, now you're competing against BYD,

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Speaker 3: which not only has state subsidization from the Chinese, it's

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Speaker 3: also just a fantastic car. And those are two things

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Speaker 3: that are very very difficult to be so and did

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Speaker 3: I mention tariffs on top of all of this. If

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Speaker 3: you're a foreign country. What's the easiest way to needle Trump?

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Speaker 1: What are you going to do? I'm tariff and Tesla tomorrow, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there you go.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, And the Tesla stock is also very vulnerable

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Speaker 2: because for a long time a lot of analysts have

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Speaker 2: looked at this and said, you know, this level of

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Speaker 2: valuation given the number of cars that they actually sell,

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Speaker 2: is crazy, like, does not make any sense. But there

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Speaker 2: was a story about especially after Trump gets elected, while

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Speaker 2: he's going to be close to Trump, and that's certainly

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Speaker 2: going to help his business a lot that didn't that

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Speaker 2: one didn't really work out for him. And then also

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Speaker 2: you know, oh, well the technology that goes into Tesla,

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Speaker 2: that's going to be the thing in the future. And

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Speaker 2: you know, we also haven't really talked about the way

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Speaker 2: that one of the things that Elon wanted to be

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Speaker 2: very invested in was these automated taxis and Weimo was

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Speaker 2: eating their lunch in that regard as well.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we haven't talked as much about WEYMO. You know,

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Speaker 3: I saw one the other day here in Washington, d C.

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Speaker 3: But there was actually a driver behind the wheels, so

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Speaker 3: I'm not sure how that works. Yeah, I still have

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Speaker 3: not been in one. I would love to go, but

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Speaker 3: they have.

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Speaker 2: Really cornered the to the extent that you know, the

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Speaker 2: autonomous robot taxi market exists at this point, which if

438
00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:37,560
Speaker 2: you go out to what San Francisco, these things are

439
00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:40,360
Speaker 2: in the street everywhere. It's Wimo, it's not Tesla.

440
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,440
Speaker 3: That's right, and they're trying they've got the what is

441
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:45,840
Speaker 3: it the robotaxi I think, which is coming online same thing.

442
00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:48,080
Speaker 3: Like you said, that was part of the strategy. So

443
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:51,800
Speaker 3: it's incredibly vulnerable now to his overall you know, think

444
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:53,680
Speaker 3: I just want to return to somebody were talking.

445
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:55,240
Speaker 1: About earlier in our Elon block.

446
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:57,480
Speaker 3: Elon did kind of give me the game away when

447
00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:59,240
Speaker 3: he's like, you know why the midterms matter because if

448
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:00,480
Speaker 3: the Democrats take House.

449
00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:02,679
Speaker 1: They're going to subpoena and investigate it. That's right, And

450
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:04,679
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, that actually, dude, they are. You

451
00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:05,560
Speaker 1: should really worry.

452
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,400
Speaker 3: Like if I was Elon, he's lucky he's rich, because

453
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:10,879
Speaker 3: you better be ready to lawyer the cup. You are

454
00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,960
Speaker 3: going to spend one hundred million dollars in in legal

455
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:18,080
Speaker 3: fees just appearing before all these or even fighting all

456
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:21,320
Speaker 3: of these subpoenas. From all these what House subcommittees and

457
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,120
Speaker 3: all of this, and you can't look, you can't blame

458
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:27,640
Speaker 3: the Dems for doing that. Whenever that's the chief political

459
00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:31,320
Speaker 3: opponent of people who are energized against right, Well, they're

460
00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:33,560
Speaker 3: given one of the mandates they're going to run on

461
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:35,840
Speaker 3: is we're going to stop Trump and Elon, So of

462
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:39,119
Speaker 3: course they're going to investigate Elon, Tesla stubpoena, all of this.

463
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:39,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay.

464
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,120
Speaker 2: Also the things he's doing are like wildly illegal. I mean,

465
00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:45,560
Speaker 2: you know, something didn't even make it into the show

466
00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:47,359
Speaker 2: today because of all other shit that's going on. But

467
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:51,600
Speaker 2: you know, RFK Junior's doing these massive Doge cuts at HHS,

468
00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:53,959
Speaker 2: and you can just look at I talk about one

469
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:55,640
Speaker 2: of these in my monologue. Actually you can just look

470
00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:58,280
Speaker 2: at these individual programs, like one is called light HEAP.

471
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:02,560
Speaker 2: It's the heating program, low income heating assistance program, so

472
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,000
Speaker 2: that you know, old people who are poor in Maine

473
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,960
Speaker 2: don't like freeze to death during the winter. These are

474
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:13,080
Speaker 2: congressionally authorized programs, like Congress said, we want to do this,

475
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,600
Speaker 2: and here's the money to do it. And now DOGE

476
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:19,200
Speaker 2: comes in and just zeros out the workforce. So there's

477
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:23,000
Speaker 2: no one there to administer the program like this is

478
00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:27,960
Speaker 2: to me, it's a blatant violation of you know, the separation,

479
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:32,520
Speaker 2: the checks and balances between these various branches. So and

480
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,560
Speaker 2: obviously the courts have looked very skeptically at many of

481
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:40,280
Speaker 2: the things that DOGE has done, so they have entirely legitimate,

482
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,280
Speaker 2: like legal reasons that they would want to look into this,

483
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:45,920
Speaker 2: not to mention the level of secrecy. I know, Elon

484
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,280
Speaker 2: Lesson pretend like there's tons of transparency here, but there's

485
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,920
Speaker 2: not the level of secrecy around who's doing what into

486
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 2: what ends and to benefit whom, et cetera. So, yeah,

487
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:56,399
Speaker 2: of course they're going to be off to the races

488
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,680
Speaker 2: with endless investigations and subpoenas. And I think it's I mean,

489
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:01,879
Speaker 2: I think it would be shocking at this point if

490
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 2: Democrats didn't win big in the midterms, because not only

491
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,399
Speaker 2: did you have the Wisconsin race double digits in the

492
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 2: liberals favor, but if you look down at those two

493
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 2: Florida both of them Florida special election seats, it was

494
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,919
Speaker 2: roughly a fifteen point swing, Yeah, exactly towards the Democrats.

495
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 2: Now midterms will be a little bit higher turnout, but

496
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 2: Republicans have a low propensity voter issue. At this point,

497
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,679
Speaker 2: Democrats are highly motivated, they have a Republicans have a

498
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,199
Speaker 2: razor thin margin. Like I said, I'd be shocked if

499
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 2: Democrats don't take the House, and I think Trump has

500
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 2: already written off the idea that they'll be able to

501
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 2: hold onto the House. The last piece we have here

502
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 2: with regards specifically to Tesla, you can put this up

503
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:45,159
Speaker 2: on the screen, is you know, understated in all of

504
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:49,160
Speaker 2: this is just what an incredible flop the cyber truck

505
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:54,360
Speaker 2: has been. They've had issues with safety and with recalls.

506
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 2: All of every cyber truck effectively was just recently recalled

507
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 2: because some of the trim can just fly off because

508
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,360
Speaker 2: it's just glued on. And we now know that they're

509
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:08,719
Speaker 2: sitting on two hundred million dollars worth of cyber truck inventory.

510
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 2: They're having so much trouble moving cyber trucks that they

511
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 2: actually have banned people from current cyber truck owners from

512
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,680
Speaker 2: trading in the vehicle at Tesla dealerships. So they say

513
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 2: Tesla's having issues selling new cyber trucks. The automaker is

514
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,120
Speaker 2: reportedly not taking any as trade ins so they won't

515
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 2: accept their own vehicle as a trade in. Many cyber

516
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,439
Speaker 2: truck owners reported trying to trade in the truck for

517
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,919
Speaker 2: a new vehicle, they were told the automaker currently doesn't

518
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,399
Speaker 2: accept its own vehicle as a trade in. Some owners

519
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 2: who have had their trucks in service for extended periods

520
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 2: of time are also trying to get Tesla to take

521
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 2: it back, companies forcing them to go through the lemon

522
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:47,360
Speaker 2: law process. And then other dealerships also are either not

523
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 2: taking in cyber trucks or they're giving incredibly low ball

524
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,920
Speaker 2: offers to potential sellers as they wait to see where

525
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 2: the price will stabilize. Right now, use cyber truck prices

526
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:01,879
Speaker 2: are down fifty five percent, you're over year, thirteen percent

527
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:03,920
Speaker 2: over the last three months, and six percent over the

528
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 2: last month.

529
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 3: YEP, not good, and especially because the cyber truck has

530
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 3: just become like a symbol of Elon.

531
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 2: Yeah. That's right, that's really yeah, that's exactly right. It's

532
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:14,920
Speaker 2: such a like in your face vehicle to buy.

533
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 3: That's a unique vehicle. Yeah, and then you made that

534
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 3: vehicle political. It's like, well that's not unstario, Like I

535
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 3: said before. You know, if you've got a truck that's

536
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,639
Speaker 3: like eighty to ninety thousand dollars. There's only a certain

537
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 3: subset of people that can afford that, or I guess

538
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 3: it should afford that.

539
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 2: So as much as you may want to own the libs,

540
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 2: you maybe don't want to own them to the tune

541
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 2: of ninety thousand dollars.

542
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 1: Right, that's true.

543
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 3: Although there are a lot of people out there driving

544
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 3: what Ford f one to fifty or what's the bigger one?

545
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 1: Not bigger than forty two two fifty?

546
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're super dude.

547
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:46,639
Speaker 1: What are the double deckers and.

548
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 2: All the ones that are like super wow?

549
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 3: Dually, that's what the control room is telling me. There

550
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 3: are a lot of guys out there, oh, like eighty grand.

551
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:54,119
Speaker 1: To their local Ford dealership.

552
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 3: But we can talk about personal finance and stuff for

553
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 3: another day.

554
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean also, look, it's still like it's

555
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 2: still kind of a pain in the ass to own

556
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 2: an electric vehicle, you know, like the charging network is

557
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 2: still like it's okay, but it's still kind of pain

558
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 2: in the.

559
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 1: Assquote pain in the ass. But it is for well.

560
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 2: If it's your primary vehicle and you're wanting to use

561
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:16,440
Speaker 2: it for like long road trips and stuff like that.

562
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're gonna stop more, there's no question.

563
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean at the same time, like most people

564
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 3: do stop statistically, they usually stop over like two to

565
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 3: three hours, so it's more that your stop will be

566
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 3: a little bit longer. The truck case is really more about,

567
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,639
Speaker 3: like if you're statistically more likely to live in a

568
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 3: more rural area, so you're gonna have less access to

569
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 3: charging exits.

570
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is where a lot of Trump supporters, which is.

571
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 1: Where a lot of Trump people would be.

572
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 3: So anyway, could we talk about that later, Yes, yeah,

573
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 3: a lot of you don't need trucks though, and specifically

574
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 3: talking to my Texans out there, living in a suburb

575
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 3: with eight thousand dollars drug is stupid.

576
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 1: But we'll get that to that later.

577
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 2: All right, let's get to TikTok. So we got another

578
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 2: deadline for some sort of deal or sale. You recall

579
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,200
Speaker 2: that Trump at the beginning of his administration, but a

580
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,159
Speaker 2: law had been passed through Congress that was like, Okay,

581
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 2: there has to be a sale or it's being shut down.

582
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:08,879
Speaker 2: And Trump basically came in and said, I'm just not

583
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 2: going to enforce that law, and he gave himself a

584
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,199
Speaker 2: deadline up until this date, and that's coming now, I

585
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:17,200
Speaker 2: believe this weekend. So we're getting down to crunch time

586
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,159
Speaker 2: here yet again of what is going to happen with

587
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,679
Speaker 2: regard to TikTok. So let's put this first element up

588
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 2: on the screens. From the Financial Times, they say the

589
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 2: White House is close to approving the sale of TikTok's

590
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 2: US unit to investors. This is a group of investors,

591
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 2: including Blackstone and inj Recent Horowitz, among the firms that

592
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 2: would rest control of the social media site from China's

593
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,239
Speaker 2: Byte Dance. Let me go ahead and read to you

594
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 2: a little bit of the details. They say. Under the

595
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 2: terms of the transaction, a group of new outside investors,

596
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 2: including in Recent Horowitz, Blackstone, silver Lake, and other large

597
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 2: private capital firms, would own about half of TikTok's US business.

598
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,160
Speaker 2: According to several people familiar with the matter, that US

599
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 2: unit would be spun off from its Beijing based parent

600
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 2: company Byte Dance. Large existing investors in TikTok, including General Atlantic,

601
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 2: Susquehanna Kkar and I don't know how you say this

602
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 2: co to CO two which go whatever what also take

603
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 2: stakes in the US arm constituting about thirty percent of

604
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 2: the business. The plans, still in plural eliminary stages, could

605
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:17,959
Speaker 2: yet change, according to those involved in the process, come

606
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,120
Speaker 2: ahead of a deadline for US law on April fifth

607
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,640
Speaker 2: that would ban the app in America unless it's Beijing

608
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 2: based owner sells it to non Chinese entities. So, I

609
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,880
Speaker 2: mean there's a couple of outstanding questions here. By the way,

610
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 2: Bezos get to that in a minute. Bezos also putting

611
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:37,199
Speaker 2: in an offer wanting Amazon to you know, bid on

612
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 2: fight dance. From what I've seen, this group is the

613
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 2: more likely victors in this, in this attempted sale. But

614
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 2: I mean a few questions here are A number one,

615
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 2: the uh, you know, the Chinese entity like has to agree,

616
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 2: So there's a question there.

617
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 1: Not the Chinese entity China.

618
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 2: China has to agree and so.

619
00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: The entity has no say.

620
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 2: Big questions there. China originally struck a very hard line

621
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 2: about this. They have since apparently softened some of their

622
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 2: rhetoric about what sort of deal they might be willing

623
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 2: to accept, So question marks there. I can't imagine China's

624
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 2: feeling like real warm and fuzzy towards the US right now.

625
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,239
Speaker 2: Given the fifty seven percent tariffs that we just let

626
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 2: it on China.

627
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 3: Well, well, if somebody just put fifty four percent or

628
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 3: whatever tariff on you and you have leverage over them

629
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 3: over a platform where one hundred.

630
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: Million people use, what are you going to do?

631
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 3: You're going to give them exactly what they want, maybe

632
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 3: as long as it's a prelude to something different. Yeah,

633
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 3: I mean my problem with this is, what's even the

634
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 3: point of all this fakery about sales. If Beijing gets

635
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 3: to keep the algorithm, that was the whole point, That's

636
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 3: that's why it was.

637
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 1: A national security issue.

638
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 2: Well, and that's part of this deal is that basically

639
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 2: the group of you know, the conglomertive investors would own half,

640
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 2: but Beijing would still maintain the algorithm, And which brings

641
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 2: in the other question of whether this even legally meets

642
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 2: the requirements. Yes, in this original law, I'm sure again

643
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 2: there would be lawsuits. Who knows how it's going to

644
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 2: ultimately be litigated, but that's.

645
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 1: Where we are.

646
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,479
Speaker 3: If you want to keep it, then just fucking keep it.

647
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 3: Like you know, this, all this other fakery is nonsense.

648
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 3: If Beijing controls the algorithm, then that's the whole reason

649
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 3: why I would be against TikTok in the first place.

650
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 3: If we're going to keep it, then and byte Dance

651
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 3: gets to maintain the proprietary algorithm and all of the data,

652
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 3: and we have all this fakery with Oracle and US

653
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 3: investor groups and all, and what's even the point of

654
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 3: the approved sale either sell it or don't or ban it? Okay, again,

655
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 3: I think we would all be better off if it

656
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 3: was banned, But whatever, Apparently the President has decided otherwise.

657
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 3: And that is perhaps, as you said, legally, considering the

658
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 3: fact that even a sale of half the company without

659
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 3: the algorithm would not meet the requirements. I would be

660
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 3: very curious to see how that shakes out in terms

661
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 3: of its ability to actually have that sale go through,

662
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 3: because it's not just a regulatory he has to pass

663
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 3: legal scrutiny.

664
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 2: That's right.

665
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 3: And what Byte Dance they're just going to give it up? No,

666
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 3: you know, of course they're not. Like I said, my

667
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 3: Dance is an arm of the Chinese government. You think

668
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 3: they're just going to hand over with their crown jewel

669
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 3: of pop culture to the United States of America without

670
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 3: any sort of concession on their part. That would actually

671
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 3: make me even more furious is if we allowed if

672
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 3: we did some deal where by Dance allowed some fake

673
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 3: deal to go through for TikTok, and maybe we lessened

674
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,719
Speaker 3: like soybean tariffs. So that would be worse, right, because

675
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 3: at least those are trying to correct some trade imbalance

676
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 3: whatever it comes to farming and for the US consumer

677
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 3: and in preserving TikTok and some brain rot algorithm as

678
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 3: a result of that.

679
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:38,959
Speaker 1: So whatever.

680
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:40,719
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, I've washed my hands of this

681
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 3: a long time ago. It's genuinely sickening. I saw JD

682
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 3: on TV this morning and be like, oh, it's a

683
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 3: platform news by many Americans.

684
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: I'm just like, okay, whatever, what's the point. Why believe

685
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: in anybody?

686
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 2: At this point I mentioned I mentioned Bezos is putting

687
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 2: in his offer. I put this up on the screen

688
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 2: from the New York Times. I mean, of course it

689
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 2: would make sense. I didn't even know they apparently tried

690
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 2: on Amazon to do some TikTok competitor.

691
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 6: Did you know that?

692
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: Oh I didn't know.

693
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, obviously did work.

694
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 1: Out saying like even aw like they used aws.

695
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 2: Yeah I think literally, yeah, yeah, I think so. According

696
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 2: to this article, I was like, I did not even

697
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 2: know that was the thing that happened, But anyway, that

698
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 2: didn't work out for them. So I mean, you can

699
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 2: see why he would want to acquire TikTok and have

700
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 2: even more you know power in terms of the US

701
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 2: economy and get even more directly into I mean, Jeff

702
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 2: Bezos and Amazon, the amount of data that they have

703
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 2: about all of us is completely astonishing. Right, the things

704
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 2: that they know about all of us is already very disturbing,

705
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 2: and TikTok could be important for gleaning even more data.

706
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 2: You know, as the AI race develops, you can see

707
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 2: how this would be increasingly valuable as well. So anyway,

708
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 2: he is making his bid two from what I saw,

709
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 2: Like I said, I think the other group probably has

710
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 2: the edge here, the Andrees and Horowitz, Blackstone, et cetera,

711
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 2: that conglomerate. I I am a little bit surprised that

712
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 2: Elon isn't in the mix here because remember that was

713
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 2: what China had kind of floated, like, hey, maybe maybe

714
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 2: Elon would be someone we I mean, that's but that

715
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 2: may be true because there's also as Tesla stock falls,

716
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 2: and Elon just did. We didn't even talk about it

717
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 2: on the show, but he had his AI company by

718
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 2: Twitter in this deal. I mean, in some ways it

719
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 2: makes kind of logical sense because of course Grock is

720
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 2: on Twitter, and so you put the two together, et cetera.

721
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 2: But in any case, in order to purchase Twitter, he

722
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 2: used as collateral significant amounts of his Tesla stock and

723
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 2: so one of the things, and nobody knows exactly what

724
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 2: the terms of the deal were, and then he renegotiated

725
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 2: the deal, so that makes it even more opaque what

726
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 2: exactly the deal was originally. But that's why Tesla stock

727
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 2: dropping significantly also has reverberating impacts throughout all of Elon's empire,

728
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 2: and most specifically with regard to this loan he took

729
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 2: out in order to be able to acquire Twitter. So

730
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 2: you may be absolutely correct that he just is not

731
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 2: in a cash flush position to be able to make

732
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:12,840
Speaker 2: this kind of a gamble. But that was that was

733
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 2: the direction that I was kind of expecting things ultimately

734
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 2: go in, and I'm glad that they're not because Elon's

735
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 2: Twitter has been.

736
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 3: So yeah, last thing here, I want to make sure

737
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 3: we got this in. Let's put this on the screen.

738
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 3: Zuckerberg was at the White House yesterday lobbying Trump to

739
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 3: avoid the meta antitrust trial. This is just so ironic

740
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 3: because actually the very same time that Zuck was at

741
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 3: the White House, I was at an anti trust event

742
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,280
Speaker 3: yesterday where Lena Khan and some of these other folks

743
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 3: were Doha Mechi as well, and we were talking about

744
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 3: the future of anti trust and how it was really

745
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 3: up for grabs and what the Trump administration, etcetera.

746
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 1: Was going to do.

747
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 3: And then I find out that probably at the exact

748
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 3: same time that we were doing that, and Steve Bannon

749
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 3: was there praising later.

750
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 1: Conn where picture got yeah, that we were all at

751
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 1: the same that at the.

752
00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 3: Same time that this was happening, where Zucker is lobbying

753
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 3: Trump specifically to avoid the met meta anti trust trial.

754
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 1: How does it compare to TikTok.

755
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 3: Well, obviously it's not just about It's not just about

756
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 3: TikTok in terms of for sale. There's still bigger, more

757
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 3: meta questions, if you will, about concentration and anti trust

758
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 3: and market competition, and you know, if anything, this is

759
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 3: actually getting away from that where we're still keeping the

760
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 3: company TikTok itself, the algorithm proprietary to big conglomerates which

761
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 3: have huge market power.

762
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 1: Over all a lot of us.

763
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 3: It's the same problem actually that applies across the board,

764
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 3: whether it's a foreign company or not.

765
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,800
Speaker 2: It's also important for anti trust policy to be seen

766
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 2: to be as politically neutral as possible, because, you know,

767
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 2: because this is a very powerful tool that the federal

768
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 2: government has where basically they get to say whether your

769
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 2: merger is going to be good to go or whether

770
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 2: you're going to have some problems, and whether or not

771
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,479
Speaker 2: they're successful in court. You know, blocking mergers are causing

772
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:03,399
Speaker 2: companies have to break up or divest. Just going through

773
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 2: that process is a major business risk, puts a lot

774
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 2: of other things on hold, is very costly, et cetera.

775
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 2: And so if you have a muscular antitrust division, but

776
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 2: you're only training it on your political adversaries or people

777
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 2: who haven't sufficiently bent the knee, like that's what you know,

778
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 2: Mark Zuckerberg has been all about for months now. At

779
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 2: this point, then it becomes a real you know, it

780
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 2: becomes a real political weapon. And again, you know, consistent

781
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:35,359
Speaker 2: with the overall theme of the way that Trump has

782
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 2: consolidated power. So that was has been my concern for

783
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 2: a while, that that's the way that the new Anti

784
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 2: Trust Division, which I am so supportive of and I

785
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 2: think is such an important corrective to the mass, you know, uh,

786
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 2: aggregation of power among these giant monopolies, tech monopolies, but

787
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 2: all kinds of monopolies across the board. So I'm super

788
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 2: supportive of that, but it is really vital that it

789
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:02,800
Speaker 2: remain seen and in practice be as politically neutral as possible.

790
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 2: And I think, you know, I just I don't think

791
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,360
Speaker 2: that's the case whatsoever under this administration. And you know

792
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 2: that's why Zuckerberg is there again on bendedne pleaning to

793
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 2: the king, trying to get in his good graces so

794
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 2: that he can get the business favors and outcomes that

795
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 2: he ultimately wants for his company.

796
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 1: Let's hope that he doesn't listen to him.

797
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 3: We'll see, Chrystal, what are you taking to look at this?

798
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 2: Saturday will mark fifteen years to the day since the

799
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 2: Upper Big Branch Mind disaster, when twenty nine miners were

800
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 2: killed in a deadly explosion. It was the deadliest mining

801
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 2: accident since the seventies, and it focused the nation's attention

802
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:40,359
Speaker 2: on the conditions that these workers face every single day,

803
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 2: as well as the combination of corporate greed and lacks

804
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 2: regulation that ended in unimaginable disaster for these miners, their families,

805
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:51,880
Speaker 2: and an entire community. When the final investigation was released

806
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 2: by the MIND Safety Health Administration, they found that Massy Energy,

807
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 2: the owner of the Upper Big Branch mine, had flagrantly

808
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 2: violated safety requires for adequate ventilation, allowing an explosive build

809
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 2: up of methane that caused the tragedy. But there was

810
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 2: another culprit that was identified in the report. The MIND

811
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 2: Safety and Health Administration called EMSHA itself. The agency in

812
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 2: spite of issuing Massy with some five hundred and fifteen

813
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,800
Speaker 2: safety violations at that mine alone in the year preceding

814
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:25,240
Speaker 2: the tragedy, they never escalated to issuing a flagrant violation,

815
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 2: which would have triggered a much larger financial penalty. The

816
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 2: admission reflected a recognition that without dogged regulators, all the

817
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 2: laws in the world mean absolutely nothing. The tragedy triggered

818
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:40,360
Speaker 2: a reform effort to crack down on unscrupulous coal barons,

819
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:42,839
Speaker 2: tighten up enforcement, and ensure that the regulators were not

820
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,719
Speaker 2: in bed with industry. The effort moved forward in some

821
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 2: fits and starts, and reforms were more incremental than transformative,

822
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 2: but progress was made. The new mship protocols brought down

823
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 2: injury rates and helped to bring a little more security

824
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 2: to an inherently dangerous job. Fifteen years after this tragedy, however,

825
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 2: that small agency charged with looking out for miners is

826
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:07,359
Speaker 2: being shredded by Elon Musk's DOGE effort to chainsaw through

827
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 2: federal bureaucracy. Perhaps even more devastating, long standing efforts to research,

828
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 2: prevent and treat black lung, which has become more severe

829
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 2: and devastating than ever, have been completely defunded. Local newspapers

830
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 2: are increasingly sounding the alarm over these developments. The Pittsburgh

831
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 2: Post Gazette ran a terrific expose titled deep Fear in

832
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 2: Coal Country. Doge cuts put regions, miners and families on edge.

833
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 2: In this piece, they focus in particular on the plan

834
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 2: closure of the Mount Pleasant Mind Safety Office, which has

835
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 2: been the busiest MSHAFT field office in the country, having

836
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:45,360
Speaker 2: investigated twenty fatalities and conducted more than six thousand regular

837
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:49,360
Speaker 2: inspections just over the past decade. Now that office lease

838
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 2: has been canceled and officials there have no idea what

839
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 2: the future is going to hold. Will those regulators be

840
00:39:55,680 --> 00:40:00,200
Speaker 2: fired transferred? Doges offered zero answers, But we know that

841
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 2: this closure is not the only one, nor is it

842
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 2: the only DOGE attack on minor health. Local news reports

843
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 2: in Kentucky, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, and Virginia suggest that some

844
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:14,239
Speaker 2: thirty five mshaffield offices have had their leases cut by DOGE. Now,

845
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:17,280
Speaker 2: these field offices, they really are the lifeblood of mine inspections,

846
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 2: and they shoulder the burden of trying to hold corporate

847
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,280
Speaker 2: greed at bay to keep workers safe and keep them alive.

848
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 2: Chelsea Barnes from the nonprofit Appalachian Voices tells Grist quote,

849
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:29,239
Speaker 2: there are going to be fewer inspections, which means that

850
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 2: operators that are not following the rules are going to

851
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 2: get away with not following the rules for longer than

852
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 2: they would have. In fact, even prior to Elon coming

853
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,880
Speaker 2: in with the chainsaw, MSHAW was already understaffed, already underfunded,

854
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 2: and failing to meet its own annual inspection targets. Think

855
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 2: of how much worse things are about to get now.

856
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 2: These cuts also could not come at a worse time

857
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 2: after the Upper Big Branch reforms. Injury rates at some

858
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 2: of the most active minds are once again rapidly rising

859
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 2: as the industry declines and coal companies chase DP seper

860
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 2: seams of coal at increasing risk to workers. Quote at

861
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 2: the Marshall County Mine in West Virginia, one of the

862
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 2: largest producers of coal at North America, the injuries rose

863
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 2: by more than fifty percent from a decade ago. Records

864
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 2: show at the Buchanan Mine in Virginia, the numbers of

865
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:18,280
Speaker 2: my miners heard on the job increase ninefold, from three

866
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:21,240
Speaker 2: injuries to at least twenty seven during the same period.

867
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:25,319
Speaker 2: And at the same time, a particularly brutal new form

868
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:28,280
Speaker 2: of black lung has also been ravaging miners at younger

869
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:31,799
Speaker 2: and younger ages, sometimes after only a short period on

870
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 2: the job, due to increased airborne silica dust. So underground

871
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 2: miners they're cutting through more and more sandstone to mine

872
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:41,359
Speaker 2: thinner seams of coal, using continuous minor machines that kick

873
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 2: huge amounts of dust into the air. Miners today are

874
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 2: also compelled to work longer hours. Ten to twelve hour

875
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 2: shifts are common, with fewer breaks, contributing to more intense

876
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 2: levels of exposure. Remember Appalachia continues to suffer from poverty.

877
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 2: Coal mining remains one of the few ways in the

878
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 2: region to earn a middle class living. So these conditions

879
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 2: of economic deprivation have stripped workers of power and left

880
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 2: them with few choices but to trade their health for

881
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:09,439
Speaker 2: their livelihood. Sadly, union representation among miners has also fallen

882
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 2: significantly from its peak. Many miners today are in fact

883
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 2: non union, and as worker power declines, miners are at

884
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 2: the mercy of regulators to enforce the safety standards that

885
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 2: can make the difference between facing the miserable slow suffocation

886
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 2: of black lung and getting to enjoy the fruits of

887
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 2: your hard work with your family into old age.

888
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 8: Identifies just how badly impaired his lungs have become. The

889
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 8: test confirms what he and respiratory therapist Lisa Emery already know.

890
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,880
Speaker 8: Kevin's black lung is so severe that he can no

891
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 8: longer work in the mines.

892
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:51,360
Speaker 7: Yeah, these are tough.

893
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 8: What's different about Kevin is his age. He used to be.

894
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,320
Speaker 8: Black lung didn't force a man out of the mines

895
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:01,759
Speaker 8: until he was in his late fifties or early sixties.

896
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:06,919
Speaker 8: Kevin is just thirty four Kevin has been a cool

897
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 8: minor almost half his life. There he was, at age eighteen,

898
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 8: suddenly making more money than he ever dreamed possible.

899
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:18,320
Speaker 7: The first six months on the ground, at twelve dollars

900
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 7: an hour, made seventy six thousand dollars six months and

901
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 7: six months. That's how bat y'all worked. Sometimes I wouldn't

902
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:26,879
Speaker 7: even go home.

903
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 6: I'd go out and sleep.

904
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 7: In the parking lot, get back out, and go back in.

905
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:47,360
Speaker 7: Then you look at stuff there, you really realize and

906
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:52,399
Speaker 7: the dangers.

907
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 8: When you have.

908
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:58,799
Speaker 7: Something to live four instead of just yourself.

909
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 2: Now. As ever, aspect of dealing with black lung, from

910
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 2: prevention to research, to early identification to treatment, all of

911
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 2: it is under assault by this administration. First of all,

912
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:12,160
Speaker 2: Trump's new mine safety head is the former head of

913
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 2: an industry lobbying group which is suing over the planned

914
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:18,440
Speaker 2: implementation of a new rule to help to combat blacklung.

915
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 2: But the primary assault on minor health is coming from

916
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 2: RFK Junior's indiscriminate cuts at HHS. In particular, hundreds of

917
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:29,239
Speaker 2: workers have been laid off from the National Institute of

918
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 2: Occupational Health and Safety that's called NIOSH. This is the

919
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:38,319
Speaker 2: office within HHS which is specifically targeted at worker safety, cops, firefighters,

920
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:41,720
Speaker 2: and miners, and there is probably no group of workers

921
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:45,280
Speaker 2: that benefits more from the work of Niosh than miners.

922
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 2: In fact, researchers at this commission they were the first

923
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 2: to identify this new aggressive form of black lung that

924
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 2: is afflicting miners due to that increased silica dust. According

925
00:44:55,160 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 2: to Louisville Public Media quote, Pittsburgh's research branch alone an

926
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 2: experimental line, an acoustic chamber, and a lab that was

927
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 2: instrumental in proving that miners were slowly dying by inhaling

928
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:12,239
Speaker 2: toxic silica dust. Niosh also runs a mobile clinic that

929
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:15,399
Speaker 2: rolls through coal country to screen miners for black lung

930
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 2: in its early stages and consult with them on treatment

931
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 2: plans and track the spread and virulence of this deadly disease.

932
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:25,840
Speaker 2: But perhaps NIOSH's most important work is administering a program

933
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:28,840
Speaker 2: that allows any miner with signs of black lung to

934
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:32,279
Speaker 2: receive a job transfer within their own company to non

935
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:34,800
Speaker 2: dusty work with no loss of pay and no loss

936
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:37,400
Speaker 2: of benefits. Yesterday, I had the chance to speak with

937
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 2: a West Virginia lawyer named Sam Patson Key explained to

938
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:43,800
Speaker 2: me just how pivotal that program has been in protecting

939
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:47,280
Speaker 2: the health of thousands of coal miners. He also explained

940
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:50,399
Speaker 2: to me the utter heartbreak of watching men who are

941
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 2: not even out of their forties sitting across from him,

942
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 2: wheezing and strapped to an oxygen tank because of what

943
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,800
Speaker 2: this horrible disease had done to them. These are human beings.

944
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 2: We know how to protect them. This administration, though, has

945
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:06,320
Speaker 2: chosen to throw them to the wolves now. Many miners

946
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:09,319
Speaker 2: also depend on local clinics funded through MSCHEFT for black

947
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:13,360
Speaker 2: lung treatment. That too, is now in doubt. Current funding

948
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 2: for those clinics last through June, and safety advocates tell

949
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 2: the Pittsburgh Post Gazette they have no idea what is

950
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 2: going to happen after that. There is probably one hope

951
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:26,840
Speaker 2: for a potential reprieve here West Virginia Senator Shelley Moore Capito.

952
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 2: She's a member of the powerful Appropriations Committee, and being

953
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 2: a Republican, she could potentially appeal to Trump or Elon

954
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:36,359
Speaker 2: for a stay of these disastrous cuts. So far, she's

955
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 2: put out what I would classify as a fairly tepid statement, saying, quote,

956
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 2: during my meetings with Secretary Kennedy prior to his confirmation,

957
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:45,920
Speaker 2: and as recently as last week, we discussed how important

958
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:48,959
Speaker 2: the health of coal miners is to West Virginia. Any

959
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 2: cuts that impact their health monitoring need to be restored immediately.

960
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 2: I'm working with the Department of Health and Human Services

961
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 2: to understand the depth of these cuts, both to programs

962
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:01,279
Speaker 2: and the workforce in Morgantown. Sure, though to emphasize that

963
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:04,879
Speaker 2: she believes in quote the broad vision, Let's be clear here,

964
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:07,760
Speaker 2: this attack on minor health and safety, it's a betrayal.

965
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:10,760
Speaker 2: It's the latest betrayal in a long list of national

966
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,240
Speaker 2: betrayals of Appalachia that has led to over a century

967
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:16,359
Speaker 2: of extraction and exploitation that helped to build the nation,

968
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 2: made a few very wealthy and hung the workers and

969
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 2: ordinary citizens of this region out to dry. It is

970
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 2: also specifically a betrayal by Donald Trump, who built his

971
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:31,320
Speaker 2: political victory in twenty sixteen on the back of these workers.

972
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:35,239
Speaker 2: He promised to be their champion and, with his celebration

973
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:37,759
Speaker 2: of fossil fuels, to lead an economic renaissance that would

974
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 2: deliver greater prosperity for them and their communities. Never trust

975
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:44,880
Speaker 2: a robber baron. He will use you to get power,

976
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 2: and he will dump you the second it does not

977
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 2: serve his billionaire buddies. The miners of Appalachia unfortunately, will

978
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:53,720
Speaker 2: never compete with the guy who dumped a quarter billion

979
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:58,960
Speaker 2: dollars into Trump's campaign. Coffers and this program. I spoke

980
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 2: to the lawyer or Sam about so he really wanted

981
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 2: me to understand how important it was that you have

982
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:07,919
Speaker 2: this mobile Niosh clinic. It's like, you know, it looks

983
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 2: like a bus that rolls through community. It's very high visibility.

984
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,239
Speaker 2: Everybody sort of knows about it and really values it.

985
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 2: They're able to do early detection. And then if you

986
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:19,319
Speaker 2: have even early signs of black lung developing, which by

987
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:21,359
Speaker 2: the way, guys, there's no cure for it only gets

988
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:24,359
Speaker 2: progressively worse. If you have even early signs of that,

989
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:27,400
Speaker 2: you're able to avail yourself of this program to transfer

990
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:29,759
Speaker 2: to what they call a non dusty job, so you're

991
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 2: no more at risk. If you don't have anyone to

992
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:35,400
Speaker 2: administer this program, it's just gone, like it just doesn't

993
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:38,319
Speaker 2: exist anymore. Even though this is something Congress said we

994
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:40,719
Speaker 2: want to do, it's important. It's important to you know,

995
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 2: all the legislators from this region, and now it's just

996
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:45,280
Speaker 2: going to be completely ended.

997
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:48,800
Speaker 3: There's nothing even to say it's sick, it's gross, especially

998
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 3: because as you and I know, these are all Republican

999
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 3: voters too, right, so this is a state which what

1000
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:57,880
Speaker 3: went forty something percent? And honestly, and this is what

1001
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 3: I worry about, will they really know about this? Right,

1002
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:05,280
Speaker 3: not even in terms of media, but given the connection

1003
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:07,319
Speaker 3: to coal mining and so much of what we've seen

1004
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 3: with the culture war, like this is the real test

1005
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:12,200
Speaker 3: of theory about like how much you can punish somebody

1006
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:14,680
Speaker 3: and still see if they'll actually continue to support you,

1007
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:16,759
Speaker 3: because I mean, you tell me, what have you seen

1008
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:19,839
Speaker 3: in West Virginia politics? Is their senator speaking up for them?

1009
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 3: Is anybody saying a word?

1010
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:25,279
Speaker 2: Barely? Yeah? Barely? No, that's exactly right, and you know,

1011
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 2: it's devastating. I think it's important, you know, zoom out

1012
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 2: from these miners, which again have just been betrayed at

1013
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 2: every turn in our country's history. And you know, do

1014
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:38,719
Speaker 2: this incredibly difficult work that truly did help to build

1015
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 2: our nation, But to zoom out from them, you know,

1016
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 2: when you see the people who had their badges revoked

1017
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 2: at HHS and they're being kicked down, they're lined up

1018
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:51,360
Speaker 2: and whatever. You can sometimes gloss over what each of

1019
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:55,080
Speaker 2: these individual programs might mean to a certain person, to

1020
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 2: a certain community. The way that just getting rid of

1021
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:01,359
Speaker 2: you know, it really is an end run around Congress too,

1022
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:04,879
Speaker 2: because they wanted this program to be in place. They

1023
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 2: were trying to do something to you know, assist and

1024
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 2: protect this group of workers. And this administration has just

1025
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:14,960
Speaker 2: figured out that if they can get rid of the

1026
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 2: people that are administering the program, then it's like the

1027
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:20,239
Speaker 2: end of the program altogether without having to go back

1028
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:23,440
Speaker 2: through Congress. So, you know, it really is going to

1029
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 2: be unfortunately devastating for this community unless kellymore Capito can

1030
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:29,880
Speaker 2: you know, plead her case and you know, petition the

1031
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 2: King to get some of these things revoked. So I certainly,

1032
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:35,560
Speaker 2: you know, call her and ask, because that's kind of

1033
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:36,720
Speaker 2: the only prayer.

1034
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:39,359
Speaker 1: He used to work in. Cold, didn't he?

1035
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 2: Oh he's a cold baron, That's what I mean.

1036
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:43,200
Speaker 1: He's a cold billionaire. Last time much. Well, I guess

1037
00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 1: they don't love black lung screeners.

1038
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 9: Or any of that.

1039
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 2: No, he doesn't. He doesn't want this program that allows

1040
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:50,440
Speaker 2: people to transfer jobs or whatever to be administered. No,

1041
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 2: he's he's he has been, you know, one of the

1042
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:58,720
Speaker 2: dirty operators in this industry where he's a billionaire, really

1043
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:02,839
Speaker 2: rich guy, and and miners have had instances where you know,

1044
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:05,200
Speaker 2: they go and do their their ten twelve hour shift

1045
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:07,120
Speaker 2: and they're eighty hours a week. I me imagine that

1046
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:10,879
Speaker 2: eighty hours underground in a mine and then their their

1047
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:12,560
Speaker 2: paycheck bounces.

1048
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 1: That's grim.

1049
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, So this is that's what we're talking about, as

1050
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:17,920
Speaker 2: the other West Virginia senator. So there you are.

1051
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 1: Let's see what happens.

1052
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 3: Okright, we got Zeed Jelani standing by, let's get to it.

1053
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:23,840
Speaker 3: Joining us now is a great friend of the show,

1054
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:27,880
Speaker 3: Zed Jilani to talk about a new gambit by a

1055
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 3: Zionist organization which is distributing literal lists of people to

1056
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 3: be deported to the Trump administration. Let's go ahead and

1057
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:37,760
Speaker 3: put that up there on the screen from the Washington Post.

1058
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:42,000
Speaker 3: The Milton Zionist group BETAR is threatening activists online with

1059
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:45,440
Speaker 3: a quote deport list, and all current indication is that

1060
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:48,760
Speaker 3: that list is actually being used by people in power.

1061
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:51,560
Speaker 3: So we thought nobody better than Zed to break some

1062
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 3: of this down for us, give us some of the

1063
00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:56,480
Speaker 3: background on this, and just to really just describe how

1064
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:59,319
Speaker 3: completely insane it all is. So zed first of all,

1065
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:02,200
Speaker 3: it's great to see my friend, but really just just

1066
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:03,719
Speaker 3: lay it out for us, what kind of a threat

1067
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:06,239
Speaker 3: this is to not only free speech, but really just

1068
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:08,719
Speaker 3: to take orders from an organization like this.

1069
00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean Betar Actually, you know, it's it's history

1070
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 9: stretches back more than one hundred years, right. It was

1071
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:19,279
Speaker 9: established a sort of a militant sort of wing of

1072
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:22,239
Speaker 9: the Zionist movement in the early nineteen hundreds. It was

1073
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:24,400
Speaker 9: active throughout Europe, and then I think it was also

1074
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:28,960
Speaker 9: continued in activities after the establishment of the State of Israel.

1075
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:31,319
Speaker 9: And in many ways, it's kind of like, you know,

1076
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:34,040
Speaker 9: remember Howard Dean used to say he was he represented

1077
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:36,640
Speaker 9: the democratic part, the democratic wing of the Democratic Party,

1078
00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:38,799
Speaker 9: or you know, that line actually goes back further than

1079
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:41,439
Speaker 9: Howard Dean, But anyway, Batar kind of does the same

1080
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 9: thing for the Zionist movement. Right, It's sort of it's

1081
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 9: it's kind of on an island of its own in

1082
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:47,920
Speaker 9: terms of some of its points of view and the

1083
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:51,080
Speaker 9: ideology that it promotes. And actually even the Anti Defamation

1084
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:53,480
Speaker 9: League and other organizations that tend to be very supportive

1085
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:56,920
Speaker 9: of the Israeli positioned consider Betar to be an extremist group. Right,

1086
00:52:57,200 --> 00:53:01,000
Speaker 9: the Democratic Majority for Israel, which is like you know,

1087
00:53:01,239 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 9: basically supports a super pack style or five onesie four

1088
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 9: type spending in the Democratic Party to support Israel, even

1089
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:10,759
Speaker 9: they have labeled Batar to be an extremist group, and

1090
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:12,880
Speaker 9: in fact, in the Washington Post story that you just mentioned,

1091
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:16,040
Speaker 9: they called that story anti semitic. Then they also call

1092
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:19,080
Speaker 9: Batar an extremist group in the same statement, meaning they

1093
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 9: just don't want any Jewish person to be blamed for

1094
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:23,719
Speaker 9: these deportations. I guess is why they call the story

1095
00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:26,520
Speaker 9: anti semitic, because I don't think it's one hundred percent

1096
00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 9: like clear or transparent how the Trump administration is going

1097
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:33,759
Speaker 9: about labeling and then deporting people. But Betar has been

1098
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:36,319
Speaker 9: claiming credit for right. This organization has been, particularly on

1099
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 9: their social media and their public utterances, have been saying

1100
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:43,080
Speaker 9: that basically they've been assembling lists of people to offer

1101
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:46,640
Speaker 9: to the Trump administration based on students who they identify,

1102
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 9: particularly foreign students that they identify at demonstrations or other

1103
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:51,920
Speaker 9: campus or university events. I think Betar is quite a

1104
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 9: presence in New York, which has been some of the

1105
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:57,880
Speaker 9: epicenter of some of the demonstrations, with high profile demonstrations. Actually,

1106
00:53:57,960 --> 00:53:59,399
Speaker 9: I think the other day they even said that they're

1107
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:01,120
Speaker 9: trying and do the opp they're also trying to give

1108
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:04,319
Speaker 9: lists of Jews to the Israeli government to have them

1109
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:06,279
Speaker 9: banned from Israel. And these tend to be you know,

1110
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:08,799
Speaker 9: left of center or center left Jews, you know, even

1111
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:12,399
Speaker 9: liberal Zionist Jews who have you know, questions concerns about

1112
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:15,399
Speaker 9: the war, about Benjamin and who's government and so yeah,

1113
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 9: I think the organization is kind of seeing itself as

1114
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:19,200
Speaker 9: a moment to shine. They've kind of been a pariah

1115
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:21,880
Speaker 9: an outcast in the Jewish community, particularly the United States,

1116
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:24,320
Speaker 9: but I think they see a little bit of influence

1117
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:26,359
Speaker 9: of interest here, right. They think this is a time

1118
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:28,399
Speaker 9: where there are a lot of people in the Jewish

1119
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:30,880
Speaker 9: community who have been uneasy about the protests because they're

1120
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:33,160
Speaker 9: sort of torn about the war, but they don't necessarily

1121
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:35,759
Speaker 9: like all the rhetoric in the in the demonstrations or

1122
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:37,760
Speaker 9: divestment movements and so on and so forth. So Beitar,

1123
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:40,720
Speaker 9: I think sees an opportunity to step up and say, hey, actually,

1124
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 9: we're on your side. Look look at all this useful

1125
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:44,320
Speaker 9: work that we're doing for you, helping get rid of

1126
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:45,120
Speaker 9: these troublemakers.

1127
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:45,319
Speaker 1: Right.

1128
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:47,000
Speaker 9: So, it's it's kind of a way for them to

1129
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 9: try to, you know, staying wash themselves or de marginalize

1130
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 9: themselves in their position because you know, like I said

1131
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:54,399
Speaker 9: that they've never been considered to be mainstream in any

1132
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:56,200
Speaker 9: way in the finest movement or even within the American

1133
00:54:56,239 --> 00:54:56,960
Speaker 9: Jewish community.

1134
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:00,040
Speaker 2: It feels like the opposite of Saint Washington me. It

1135
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:02,080
Speaker 2: feels like, oh, we're you know, we're part of this

1136
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 2: effort to destroy free speech in America? Aren't we great?

1137
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 2: Aren't we cool? And one of the things that they've

1138
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:10,720
Speaker 2: been saying in claiming credit at least for the targeting

1139
00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:13,000
Speaker 2: of the Trump administration of these students, some of whom

1140
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:16,440
Speaker 2: are permanent residents, some of whom are student visa holders,

1141
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:19,680
Speaker 2: is they're saying naturalized citizens are going to be next.

1142
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:21,440
Speaker 2: They tweeted out, we told you we've been working on

1143
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:25,280
Speaker 2: deportations and will continue to do so. Expect naturalized citizens

1144
00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:28,399
Speaker 2: to start being picked up within the month. You heard

1145
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:31,640
Speaker 2: it here. First, those who support jihad and intifada and

1146
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:35,319
Speaker 2: originate in terrorist states will be sent back to those

1147
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:38,600
Speaker 2: lands and listen again, I don't know if the White

1148
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:41,440
Speaker 2: House is directly like following their lists and moving in

1149
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:43,600
Speaker 2: the direction that Betar wants them to, but it was

1150
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:47,279
Speaker 2: noteworthy to me that the State Department spokesperson got a

1151
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:51,040
Speaker 2: question about whether or not naturalized citizens would be targeted

1152
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:54,280
Speaker 2: and she would not say, which is an extraordinarily different

1153
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:57,880
Speaker 2: direction and policy than we have seen, you know, in

1154
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:01,080
Speaker 2: basically the history of this country. So Zeed, I wonder

1155
00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:04,000
Speaker 2: if you can, you know, reflect on how extraordinary that

1156
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:06,960
Speaker 2: is and whether you think it's possible given what we've

1157
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:09,880
Speaker 2: already seen from this administration with regard to student targeting.

1158
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:11,399
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1159
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:14,680
Speaker 9: So, I think the issue with naturalized citizens was actually

1160
00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:17,000
Speaker 9: brought up in the first Trump administration. I think it

1161
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:19,759
Speaker 9: was kind of a Stephen Miller idea or someone in

1162
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:23,280
Speaker 9: his camp or orbit that you could actually in certain

1163
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:26,359
Speaker 9: cases remove citizenship from people who have been granted it

1164
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:29,680
Speaker 9: after coming to the United States. Right, And as far

1165
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 9: as like how possible that is, I think you know

1166
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:36,319
Speaker 9: that maybe is reserved for a case where somebody like

1167
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:39,640
Speaker 9: lies on their citizenship application, right, or has de brought

1168
00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 9: in you know.

1169
00:56:40,719 --> 00:56:43,239
Speaker 6: The American government in some way, right, it's not.

1170
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:48,319
Speaker 9: Someone having their citizenship, you know, denaturalizers stript based on

1171
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:52,320
Speaker 9: ideological disagreement or some utter ends of some idea or speech.

1172
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:54,120
Speaker 6: I can't really think of an.

1173
00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:57,720
Speaker 9: Example of that, but it would kind of be precedent

1174
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:00,480
Speaker 9: setting for them, right. I think that a big part

1175
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:02,960
Speaker 9: of the reason why some people on the rights are

1176
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:04,960
Speaker 9: supporting all this is not just like the sort of

1177
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:07,440
Speaker 9: the more niche cause about the Middle East or about Israel, right,

1178
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:11,319
Speaker 9: which you know, organizations like Beta, you know, organizations that

1179
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:12,920
Speaker 9: are a little more softly and support of this, like

1180
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:15,520
Speaker 9: the ADL, you know, maybe they're concerned with that. But

1181
00:57:15,520 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 9: I also think that like there's is this broader Native

1182
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 9: Ast project, right, which I think that like someone like

1183
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:23,880
Speaker 9: Stephen Miller does not really want to see the I

1184
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:26,000
Speaker 9: guess he would consider the browning of America, right. He

1185
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 9: thinks that America has brought in too many people from

1186
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:29,720
Speaker 9: foreign lands to begin with.

1187
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:30,800
Speaker 6: And so it's kind.

1188
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:33,960
Speaker 9: Of an overlap and interest right between sort of people

1189
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:35,800
Speaker 9: who are very fixated on the Middle East conflict, but

1190
00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 9: also people who just like would like to see fewer

1191
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:39,680
Speaker 9: foreigners in America period.

1192
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:41,440
Speaker 6: Right. There is a wing of the GOP base that

1193
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:42,360
Speaker 6: feels that way.

1194
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:44,480
Speaker 9: And that might be part of why they're not as

1195
00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:48,320
Speaker 9: disturbed by rollbacks in due process, by rollbacks and freedom

1196
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:50,400
Speaker 9: of speech and expression, because like, hey, at least we're

1197
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:52,000
Speaker 9: getting rid of them, right, we don't really care about

1198
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:55,080
Speaker 9: how you know, many people I think would argue, look,

1199
00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:57,160
Speaker 9: Biden brought so many people in through all these channels

1200
00:57:57,160 --> 00:57:59,880
Speaker 9: which we didn't appreciate and which were irregular, and they're

1201
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:02,840
Speaker 9: some ways abusing the Asilon process or similar laws, So

1202
00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:04,640
Speaker 9: we don't really care what process it takes to get

1203
00:58:04,720 --> 00:58:07,080
Speaker 9: rid of these people, right. And I think that's also

1204
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:09,360
Speaker 9: like a bigger part of this because even a lot

1205
00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:11,520
Speaker 9: of light that Republican base doesn't care that much about

1206
00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 9: the particulars about the Middle East conflict, about Israel or

1207
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:15,040
Speaker 9: Swan and so forth.

1208
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:18,040
Speaker 6: But I think they do have this larger resentment.

1209
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:21,640
Speaker 9: About immigration, right, And I think those two things combining

1210
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:24,720
Speaker 9: could end up, you know, having the Trump administration take

1211
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:27,160
Speaker 9: a second look at like this denaturalizing process, which.

1212
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:27,680
Speaker 6: I think they had.

1213
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:30,080
Speaker 9: I think they did flow in the first first term,

1214
00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:32,360
Speaker 9: but they didn't really do much with it. They seem

1215
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:34,000
Speaker 9: to be pushing the boundaries a lot more this time.

1216
00:58:34,040 --> 00:58:35,320
Speaker 9: So who knows, well, Zeed.

1217
00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:38,280
Speaker 3: I mean, first of all, you're absolutely right, and certainly listen, now,

1218
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:40,040
Speaker 3: if we had a whole debate here, that's certainly where

1219
00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:42,600
Speaker 3: my sympathies were, and so I get where they're coming from.

1220
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:44,880
Speaker 3: One of the things that actually pulls me back are

1221
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:47,520
Speaker 3: people like you, people like Glenn Greenwald, and so even

1222
00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 3: taking the naturalized citizenship out of this talk then about

1223
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:55,840
Speaker 3: the free speech implications about going after these protesters solely

1224
00:58:55,960 --> 00:59:00,160
Speaker 3: on the grounds of speaking against this foreign country. In

1225
00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:02,760
Speaker 3: many of these cases, they have not been charged or

1226
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:06,840
Speaker 3: committed with crimes in order to at least normally justify

1227
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:08,920
Speaker 3: their removal from the United States.

1228
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:12,600
Speaker 9: Look, I think that a lot of this is the

1229
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:14,640
Speaker 9: other part of the overlap between different parts of the

1230
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:16,200
Speaker 9: GOP coalition. I think a lot of people in their

1231
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:20,000
Speaker 9: Republican Party were upset at colleges and universities, probably going

1232
00:59:20,040 --> 00:59:21,000
Speaker 9: back ten years or more.

1233
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:22,320
Speaker 6: I mean, even when I was in high school.

1234
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:25,400
Speaker 9: I remember, you know, teachers complaining about Marxist professors at UGA.

1235
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:27,400
Speaker 6: And you know, UGA is not a very radical school.

1236
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:28,560
Speaker 6: It's my alma mater.

1237
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:31,560
Speaker 9: But I think particularly the past ten years because of

1238
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:35,600
Speaker 9: heightened censorship and all these trends on university campuses, a

1239
00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:37,840
Speaker 9: lot of conservatives just didn't really trust them or like

1240
00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:38,840
Speaker 9: them to begin with.

1241
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:40,320
Speaker 6: And so I think.

1242
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:43,360
Speaker 9: Parts of the GOP base are also like, Okay, screw Harward,

1243
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:46,280
Speaker 9: screw Columbia. They were never kind or generous or compassionate

1244
00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:47,200
Speaker 9: towards US conservatives.

1245
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:48,480
Speaker 6: Why do we care about them?

1246
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:52,120
Speaker 9: But what I would caution about that is like, Okay,

1247
00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:55,320
Speaker 9: there are steps that the Trump administration could take to

1248
00:59:55,560 --> 00:59:58,800
Speaker 9: enforce greater freedom of speech, greater freedom of assembly, more

1249
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:03,320
Speaker 9: protection of conservative voices, more promotion even ideological promotion of

1250
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:06,560
Speaker 9: maybe more diversity and viewpoints, so on and so forth

1251
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:09,520
Speaker 9: at colleges and universities. I think maybe they've done a

1252
01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:10,800
Speaker 9: little bit of that. They've hinted they want to do

1253
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:12,040
Speaker 9: a little bit of that. And for the most part,

1254
01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:14,400
Speaker 9: what they're doing is they're actually making things worse, right,

1255
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:18,080
Speaker 9: They're making it. They're establishing a president where the government

1256
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:21,120
Speaker 9: can severely crack down on political government itself can severely

1257
01:00:21,160 --> 01:00:23,480
Speaker 9: crack down certain political points of view at these colleges

1258
01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:26,760
Speaker 9: and universities, and the president they're establishing could easily be

1259
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:29,360
Speaker 9: utilized by a future president. I mean, anytime you give

1260
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:30,880
Speaker 9: the government an inch, it tends to take a mile

1261
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:32,320
Speaker 9: or any really any large institution.

1262
01:00:32,440 --> 01:00:32,600
Speaker 6: Right.

1263
01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:35,760
Speaker 9: So like let's say, you know, in Bizarro and Earth too,

1264
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:38,800
Speaker 9: you know, the Democratic president is deporting immigrants because they

1265
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:40,960
Speaker 9: don't use the proper pronouns, right, because in their country

1266
01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:44,280
Speaker 9: they don't have the same ideas about transgenderism, right or

1267
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:46,560
Speaker 9: you know, their genders or so on and so forth. Right,

1268
01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:49,000
Speaker 9: like you could see a slippery So that goes in

1269
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:53,040
Speaker 9: many different directions, but it's all going against greater speech rights.

1270
01:00:53,080 --> 01:00:53,200
Speaker 2: Right.

1271
01:00:53,240 --> 01:00:56,360
Speaker 9: It's not really benefiting conservatives to create all these speech

1272
01:00:56,400 --> 01:00:59,160
Speaker 9: codes around Israel because the people who are pushing that,

1273
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:01,360
Speaker 9: like Miriam Adelson there, Bill Ackman or so on and

1274
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:03,600
Speaker 9: so forth, they don't really care about conservative speech. Right,

1275
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:06,040
Speaker 9: That's not their cause, right, they're part of it. They

1276
01:01:06,080 --> 01:01:08,080
Speaker 9: see themselves as part of a much larger blood feud

1277
01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:10,680
Speaker 9: between peoples in the Middle East, and whatever it takes

1278
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:12,400
Speaker 9: to win that in the United States, they'll do it.

1279
01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:15,600
Speaker 9: But they're not really super interested in conservatives and it

1280
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:18,440
Speaker 9: look it is. It is a very difficult president to

1281
01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:22,360
Speaker 9: establish because this is happening, you know, three months into

1282
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:24,840
Speaker 9: the trumpet three four months into the Trump administration. Right,

1283
01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:27,520
Speaker 9: imagine what three or four years into it looks like.

1284
01:01:27,680 --> 01:01:31,560
Speaker 9: Right if they managed to establish this kind of rule

1285
01:01:31,880 --> 01:01:33,680
Speaker 9: so early on, and then you know, three four years

1286
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:35,560
Speaker 9: of keep pushing the envelope, right, I mean, I think

1287
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:38,720
Speaker 9: talking about what happens to naturalized citizens whose speech they

1288
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:41,360
Speaker 9: dislike and that they may not even be too bold

1289
01:01:41,400 --> 01:01:43,120
Speaker 9: of a thing for them to do it. You know,

1290
01:01:43,240 --> 01:01:46,360
Speaker 9: other times Trump has said that maybe boycotting TESLA should

1291
01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:50,880
Speaker 9: be illegal. People are saying that vandalizing a car is

1292
01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:53,840
Speaker 9: an act of terrorism. I don't think you should vandalize

1293
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:56,200
Speaker 9: a car or engagement road rage. I think all that

1294
01:01:56,200 --> 01:01:59,240
Speaker 9: stuffs really juvenile and wrong. But like when you're expanding

1295
01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:01,360
Speaker 9: what the government can do to people in response to

1296
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:04,080
Speaker 9: things as wildly disproportionate to what the people are doing.

1297
01:02:04,120 --> 01:02:06,520
Speaker 9: You know, whether it's speech that offends you or minor

1298
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:09,080
Speaker 9: acts of vandalism, you are giving the government a lot

1299
01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:11,520
Speaker 9: more power. And you can pretty much guarantee that anytime

1300
01:02:11,560 --> 01:02:13,040
Speaker 9: you get the government and power, they're going to use it.

1301
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 9: I mean, the Patriot Act, right must pass after nine

1302
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:17,440
Speaker 9: to eleven? What did the Patriot Act mostly ended up

1303
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:19,760
Speaker 9: being used for? Mostly ended up being used for their

1304
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:21,840
Speaker 9: war on drugs, Right, They mostly used it for those

1305
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:25,000
Speaker 9: kind of searches and seizures and you know, extra legal powers.

1306
01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:26,800
Speaker 6: They didn't even use it mostly for terrorism at the

1307
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:27,280
Speaker 6: end of the day.

1308
01:02:27,360 --> 01:02:30,160
Speaker 9: Right, But if you hand someone a bunch of power

1309
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:32,120
Speaker 9: to do something like that's that's how it ends up

1310
01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:32,480
Speaker 9: being used.

1311
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:35,840
Speaker 6: It ends up being used in the maximumly possible ways.

1312
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:39,080
Speaker 2: So yeah, well and help pave the way also for

1313
01:02:39,240 --> 01:02:43,080
Speaker 2: you know, this additional extraordinary power grab by the executive.

1314
01:02:43,120 --> 01:02:46,920
Speaker 2: So you're absolutely right, These things rarely, if ever, actually

1315
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:49,840
Speaker 2: go and reverse. Zeid, thank you so much for joining

1316
01:02:49,920 --> 01:02:51,600
Speaker 2: us and helping us to understand what's going on here

1317
01:02:51,720 --> 01:02:52,520
Speaker 2: underneath the service.

1318
01:02:52,680 --> 01:02:55,120
Speaker 3: Thanks man, miss talking to you, Thank you, thanks for

1319
01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:57,479
Speaker 3: watching guys. We appreciate it. We will see you all later.

1320
01:03:00,240 --> 01:03:03,520
Speaker 6: The key t