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Speaker 1: Hi, guys, this is the Killer Thriller Docu edition. I

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Speaker 1: am your host, Jen Fessler, and as a matter of fact,

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Speaker 1: this is my first episode and we are going in

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Speaker 1: depth and behind the scenes of the most watched and

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Speaker 1: most binge true crime documentaries and docuseries. We are beginning

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Speaker 1: with a big one. This is the new Hulu documentary

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Speaker 1: Friends Like These, The Skyler Nie Murder. Sixteen year old

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Speaker 1: Skyler Niece vanished from her West Virginia home on July sixth,

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Speaker 1: twenty twelve. Her family and community are thrown into turmoil

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Speaker 1: as the search for answers intensifies. Police then turn their

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Speaker 1: attention towards Skyler's best friends, Sheila and Rachel, uncovering secrets, betrayal,

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Speaker 1: and identity. And I will tell you all, we're talking

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Speaker 1: about murder, and we're talking about sixteen year old actually

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Speaker 1: fifteen and sixteen, and we're talking about something that happened

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Speaker 1: in twenty twelve. It's fascinating. And today I have the

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Speaker 1: absolute pleasure of talking with the director of this documentary,

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Speaker 1: Claire Titley. So let's jump right in. Hi Claire, Hi Jen.

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Speaker 1: Lovely to meet you, so nice to meet you. Thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for coming on, So I have to

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Speaker 1: just ask you this right off the bat, like are

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Speaker 1: you okay? Are you okay? Because I'm not.

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Speaker 2: I know. I think it's one of those things that's

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Speaker 2: a documentary filmmaking that you have to absorb a lot

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Speaker 2: of this in that thing. But is it is hard?

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Speaker 2: It's hard.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's one of the questions, one of the many,

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Speaker 1: many questions that I have is just how how do

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Speaker 1: you get through and compartmentalize? And I've read you know

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Speaker 1: your bio, and obviously this is not your first rodeo.

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Speaker 1: You've been a professional and you've won awards at BATHTA

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Speaker 1: and I know that, so you're a professional. But even

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Speaker 1: with that, this was so terrifying, upsetting. Kudos to you gripping.

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Speaker 1: I can't. I'm still trying to process it, you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, thank you. And I think the thing is

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Speaker 2: I think particularly I say kind of like if you've

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Speaker 2: got if you've got daughters or whatever, but actually, quite frankly,

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Speaker 2: if you've ever been if you've ever been a teenage girl,

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Speaker 2: if you've ever been a teenager, I think it kind

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Speaker 2: of like rings. I think it rings, I say rings. True,

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Speaker 2: there's something quite harrowing when you remember when you kind

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Speaker 2: of take into that world and you remember what it

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Speaker 2: was like, you know, to be, to be that age.

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Speaker 2: And I think that that for me was the thing

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Speaker 2: that kind of sort of really hooked me into it,

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Speaker 2: and the thing that we wanted to concentrate on was

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Speaker 2: kind of like that side of it and come at

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Speaker 2: it from that particular angle. But it's also the reason

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Speaker 2: why I think it is so harrowing this story. I've

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Speaker 2: made a lot of films in the past before. I've

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Speaker 2: made a lot of films about nine to eleven, a

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Speaker 2: lot of films about First and Second World War, and

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Speaker 2: I've interviewed vetters and people have experienced all that. But

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Speaker 2: there's something about these I say teenagers, they're not teenagers anymore,

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Speaker 2: but the friends of Skyler that is so they're so

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Speaker 2: traumatized because this thing happened to them when they were

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Speaker 2: so young, and it happened to somebody who sat on

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Speaker 2: the desk next to them.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and they were.

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Speaker 2: And there's something about that that has changed them all forever.

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Speaker 1: Yes, So much of that is what was on my mind.

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Speaker 1: The way, first of all, the depiction of it, the

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Speaker 1: way you zoomed in on things, For instance, she had

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Speaker 1: these magnets Skyler did up on her door, the spelling

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Speaker 1: Skyler and I don't know, you know, it's hard to know.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how much of this. It's obviously a documentary,

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Speaker 1: those were actually there because I've those magnets were on

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Speaker 1: my fridge. My kids used to come and play with

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Speaker 1: those types of magnets, you know, with the numbers and

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Speaker 1: the letters, and even just that detail was so chilling

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Speaker 1: because you did such a beautiful job of us as

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Speaker 1: a viewer being able to look at this young girl

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Speaker 1: and see my own daughter kids at that age. My

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Speaker 1: daughter's now twenty three, really not so long ago high

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Speaker 1: school and especially with the friends, so I guess now

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Speaker 1: they're what like thirty.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they would have Skylet would have turned thirty just

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Speaker 2: a few weeks ago, so I around that age, twenty

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Speaker 2: eight to thirty two, that sort of age is.

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Speaker 1: What right they are now? So and like hearing them

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Speaker 1: tell the story from their vantage point was just fascinating.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's hard to use words, so I feel

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Speaker 1: like for me, it's hard to use positive words to

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Speaker 1: describe it. It was the most gripping documentary and brilliant

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Speaker 1: and if you haven't seen it. I am telling you,

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Speaker 1: I beg of you to watch it. It is so

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Speaker 1: insightful and heartfelt and all of that, but it's sick.

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Speaker 1: It's sick. It's these women. These women, these girls were monsters.

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Speaker 1: And watching someone like let's Daniel, he was so sweet

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Speaker 1: and watching how you know, he talked about how he

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Speaker 1: at one point lost it right and spoke up and

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Speaker 1: couldn't help himself right, and watching him now and thinking,

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Speaker 1: I was thinking to myself, the told that this must

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Speaker 1: have taken on the lives of the kids around them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's the thing, the key thing that you

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Speaker 2: say that they were girls, they were kind of like

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Speaker 2: that's that's the scary thing about this, and they are

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Speaker 2: so you forget the teenage brain is so it's still

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Speaker 2: being formed, you know, And I mean teenagers make stupid

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Speaker 2: decisions and they make kind of, you know, bad choices.

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Speaker 2: But obviously this was this is kind of like on

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Speaker 2: another level, but it but I think that is one

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Speaker 2: of the things that always stayed with me. And it

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Speaker 2: was something that we really wanted the audience to feel.

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Speaker 1: You did, yes, yes you did. You were able to

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Speaker 1: humanize them because I wanted.

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Speaker 2: But it was it was about putting the audience. We

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Speaker 2: were very very because to put the audience in the

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Speaker 2: place of the teenagers of her friends, it's it's very

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Speaker 2: eat What was very easy, but to make a series

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Speaker 2: from the perspective of you know, armchair kind of sleuth

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Speaker 2: or whatever it is, and you are to an extent

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Speaker 2: trying to solve the murder a lot, you know, along

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Speaker 2: alongside you solved the self of disappearance alongside the police.

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Speaker 2: But we we knew that it would hit home harder

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Speaker 2: and actually kind of understand the motive or lack of

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Speaker 2: motive more if you could get into this world, which

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Speaker 2: is why we made We made a lot of decisions

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Speaker 2: about even just like the color palette. We kind of

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Speaker 2: made it. It is kind of purposefully cutesy and teenagery,

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Speaker 2: and and we kind of tried to we've shot them

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Speaker 2: all it's not actually their their school, but we shot

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Speaker 2: them all in a school. We kind of we made

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Speaker 2: sure that it had this teenage.

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Speaker 1: Palette American it looks like it looks exactly like where

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Speaker 1: my kids went to high school, and it's kind of.

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Speaker 2: Drawn from films like eighth grade, like was a big

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Speaker 2: influence in that way, and you know, all all those

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Speaker 2: kind of films. I mean, weirdly kind of probably ended

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Speaker 2: up watching more teen movies than true crime in order

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Speaker 2: to try and get influenced.

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Speaker 1: He did a brilliant job of that, because that's that's

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Speaker 1: I think part of what was so very gripping. It

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Speaker 1: was so familiar. You created the world, this world, you know,

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Speaker 1: you have the I don't even know. I still haven't processed,

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Speaker 1: if I'm being honest, like how to feel about these

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Speaker 1: children and what they did. It's keeping me up at night.

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Speaker 1: Thanks a lot, But I will tell you that the

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Speaker 1: brilliance of this documentary is that it is so familiar.

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Speaker 1: And the color palette whatever is that means or whatever

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Speaker 1: it is that you chose, resonates right.

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Speaker 2: And the composer that the composer did a brilliant job

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Speaker 2: as well of this like amazing score that you hopefully

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Speaker 2: don't notice to an extent, but they're trying to. She

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Speaker 2: was listening to so much music from twenty twelve that

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Speaker 2: teenagers were listening to it. Yeah, try and kind of

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Speaker 2: like I read that through so that you got this real,

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Speaker 2: you know, and it twists and becomes darker, but so

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Speaker 2: that you get that real feeling of like of being there,

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Speaker 2: of being that age again, which is one sometimes why

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Speaker 2: I keep referring to skyl as friends as teenagers, even

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Speaker 2: though they're all twenty eight twitter right, because the wait,

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Speaker 2: that's what we're trying to do and get them into

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Speaker 2: that world and remember what it was like before she

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Speaker 2: went missing.

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Speaker 1: They still seem very young to me. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if that's about me being old, or if it's about

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Speaker 1: the fact that they actually have just seem so vulnerable.

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Speaker 1: These kids are now again like twenty to thirty. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I guess they're not kids anymore. But they felt you

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Speaker 1: felt their heartache, even getting emotional thinking talking about it.

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Speaker 1: They were just incredible.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: It's hard because I said to my producers before we started, like,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to give away spoilers from people that

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Speaker 1: haven't seen it. On the other hand, it's not it's

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Speaker 1: a public story. On the other hand, I think that

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Speaker 1: our listeners probably have already seen it and are so

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Speaker 1: excited just to talk to you. It's like I'm walking

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Speaker 1: tyrope here. I don't want to give it away. But

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Speaker 1: at the same I don't think it really matters because

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Speaker 1: the way that this it was so even if you

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Speaker 1: know what happens at the end. This was the most

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Speaker 1: fascinating documentary because, well, I think because of all of

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Speaker 1: the components, because of the fact that they were so young,

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Speaker 1: because of the fact that it was so violent. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: all of that, but just the way that you whatever

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Speaker 1: magic that you worked, my friend was it was just incredible.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I feel like almost I don't know

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Speaker 1: if you had this any of this, but as a viewer,

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Speaker 1: I feel guilty. I've I enjoyed it so much and

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Speaker 1: then you think this is real, you know, I you

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Speaker 1: must have had a hard time compartmentalizing. I would think

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Speaker 1: it's I.

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Speaker 2: Tell you, I'll tell you. One of the things that

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Speaker 2: was kind of interesting about it was the fact that

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Speaker 2: I was making it at the same time I had

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Speaker 2: a preteen so when I started, she was preaching, right,

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Speaker 2: and so I'd be reading the stories and you know,

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Speaker 2: I've readen the social media posts from these three girls.

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Speaker 2: To have this intense relationship Skyla, Sheila and Rachel, who

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Speaker 2: have this, you know, it's it's it's like a love affair.

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Speaker 2: Their relationship. It's so intense that the trio as they've

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Speaker 2: become kind of known by everybody and reading these recent

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Speaker 2: sort of tweets and things and and little bits that

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Speaker 2: Skyla had written every so often, and and then I'd

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Speaker 2: come home sometimes and talk to my daughter, and you

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Speaker 2: kind of have those friendship dynamics are kind of playing out,

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Speaker 2: and it's.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yes, yes, absolutely, that is the thing because it

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Speaker 1: is so familiar. I mean, this was so mean girls

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Speaker 1: the movie. Right, Well, obviously it wasn't.

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Speaker 2: But we've all been there, haven't We've been there.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I'm just going to like start to just throw

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Speaker 1: questions at you because I'm just so curious about so

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Speaker 1: much of this. So first, did you ever try to

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Speaker 1: get Rachel or Sheila or their parents? Well, I guess

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Speaker 1: you'd have to go to prison, but to take part

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Speaker 1: in this.

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Speaker 2: We approached them several times a bet and their families

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Speaker 2: as well, and we didn't get a response to all

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Speaker 2: from them, which, you know, not really in hindsight. In hindsight,

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Speaker 2: I don't know whether I'm pleased or not about that.

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Speaker 2: That's yeah, complicated feelings.

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Speaker 1: The actress who was doing the voice over work for

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Speaker 1: Skyler read a lot of posts. I didn't know if

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Speaker 1: that was just part of what you all put in

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Speaker 1: or if those were actual posts from her or diary entries.

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Speaker 2: Everything that she's everything that she reads. And she, by

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Speaker 2: the way, was somebody who we spent a long time

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Speaker 2: casting actors. I mean, I was very clear that I

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Speaker 2: was not going to be using AI for this, you know,

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Speaker 2: it was very clear on that, and we used as

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Speaker 2: much of recordings of Skylar's voice as we possibly can,

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Speaker 2: and we got Dave and Mary, her parents, to sign

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Speaker 2: off on her voice, and they were very much involved

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Speaker 2: in the casting process as well.

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Speaker 1: And that was actually those were Facebook and posts or

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Speaker 1: Twitter posts or were they diary entries or all of that.

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Speaker 2: There was a lot of stuff that she'd written that

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Speaker 2: they shared with us. There was a lot of stuff

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Speaker 2: that you know, she's handwritten that she'd shared with us.

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Speaker 2: There were also so a lot of some of them

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Speaker 2: I think are tweets and potentially potentially there's some Facebook

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Speaker 2: in there as well. But everything that's in there is

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Speaker 2: stuff that she's is stuff that she's written that like,

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Speaker 2: we didn't make anything up. None of it is dramatized

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Speaker 2: in that way. You know, everything everything is truthfully what

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Speaker 2: she said, and the same for Rachel and Sheila as well.

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Speaker 2: Because one of the things that we didn't realize when

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Speaker 2: we started this series that we would actually get hold

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Speaker 2: of Rachel's diary, which is kind of insane.

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Speaker 1: Really, you know, how did you do that?

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Speaker 2: That was through I was going to think, is it

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Speaker 2: through the FBI or through the you know, when a

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Speaker 2: series comes out it's research, of course, of course I

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Speaker 2: think I believe it was through the police that we

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Speaker 2: managed to get that.

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Speaker 1: It was amazing. I can't believe you that was because

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Speaker 1: it's hard watching this knowing that it's a documentary and

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Speaker 1: still believing what you're watching, right and hearing Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: just fascinating.

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Speaker 2: We had I mean, this wasn't a fast turn around series.

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Speaker 2: We had a lot. We spent a long time developing

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Speaker 2: relationships kind of like seeking evidence and things, and that's

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Speaker 2: one of the reasons. And actually it paid off because

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Speaker 2: it took months and months and months for some of

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Speaker 2: this evidence to kind of come to that hasn't been

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Speaker 2: seen or heard in other podcasts or document I mean,

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Speaker 2: there has been a lot done on this case in

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Speaker 2: the past, which I wasn't aware of even before I started.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't either, not to this, not to this extent.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the things, the materials we were able to

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Speaker 2: uncover and the sting operation that there's at one point

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Speaker 2: there's an undercover sting that Rachel does with with with Sheila,

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Speaker 2: and oh.

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Speaker 1: I have questions about that. I have such questions about that. Wait,

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Speaker 1: hold on, okay, David and Mary Spyler's parents, how was that?

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Speaker 1: That must have been very difficult? And how are they today?

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Speaker 1: What a stupid question there there? And she was an

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Speaker 1: only child? Correct? Because I never saw any mention of.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, she's she's David Mary's only child and together,

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Speaker 2: but they they they are in I don't know. It's

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Speaker 2: really hard to answer, isn't it kind of like how

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Speaker 2: are they? How are they?

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Speaker 1: Know? It's a dumb question. Please forgive me, because it's

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Speaker 1: they're they're.

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Speaker 2: In as good you know. What I always kind of

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Speaker 2: say to them is that I have a lot of

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Speaker 2: admiration for them, and it's kind of redefined my ideas

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Speaker 2: of parenting. It's kind of the idea that they are

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Speaker 2: still good parents even though their child isn't here. I

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Speaker 2: still feel like they're, you know, they're still parenting in

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Speaker 2: some form, and they're and they're brilliant people, and they

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Speaker 2: are they are good friends.

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Speaker 1: Still together, are they still together.

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Speaker 2: Together and uh, and they're still in Morgantown, just outside Morgantown.

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Speaker 2: And the next time I go over there to that

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Speaker 2: neck of the woods, I will be popping in and

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Speaker 2: to go and see them and have a team of them. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean, they're they're I have a lot of admiration

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Speaker 2: for them.

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Speaker 1: So do I so Rachel's mom. That one of the

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Speaker 1: things that really struck me, right was when the FBI

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Speaker 1: they were going to set up Sheila and how Rachel's

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Speaker 1: say come over. And I watched as Rachel's mom said

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Speaker 1: to her, I love you, you can do this. And

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Speaker 1: I mean I couldn't for whatever reason, you know, there

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Speaker 1: are certain it all struck me. But this mother saying

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Speaker 1: to this daughter, I love you, you can share your friend

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Speaker 1: to come over right. I know you want to throw

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Speaker 1: up a little, and I love you. You could admit

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Speaker 1: to stabbing your best friend and you could set up

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Speaker 1: your other best friend. It was so familiar to watch

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Speaker 1: a mother just say I love you, you can do this.

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Speaker 1: I say that to my daughter all the time, you know,

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Speaker 1: And it was that just that was like a just

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Speaker 1: a gut punch. Now, I also want to know from

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Speaker 1: you in terms of Sheila's that was Sila, and no,

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Speaker 1: that was Rachel. In terms of Rachel's parents, and a

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Speaker 1: lot there was a lot about how religious that they were,

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Speaker 1: but there was not a lot about the father. I

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Speaker 1: did I was wondering about a little bit more about him,

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Speaker 1: and I know, and there was apparently when I think

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Speaker 1: it was Daniel that talked about they were in theater

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Speaker 1: and the mother freaked out, and I guess Rachel was

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Speaker 1: freaking out and yelling about how she couldn't do something,

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Speaker 1: and then her mom was like get it together and

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Speaker 1: was awful And was she abusive? Is that is that show?

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Speaker 1: I mean? Were the parents physically abusive? I wasn't quite sure.

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Speaker 2: I know, I have to be really careful when I

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Speaker 2: say it because in terms of evidence and thing, you know,

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Speaker 2: But but I uh. And we did reach out to

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Speaker 2: her mum because we've we've obviously had a lot of

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Speaker 2: this anecdotal.

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Speaker 1: Y yes, you know, yes, And it wasn't from.

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Speaker 2: Just one one source. It was from several sources, and

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Speaker 2: we weren't the first people to kind of exposed that

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Speaker 2: or discuss that either in the in that regard as

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Speaker 2: to as to her father. Again, it's you know, it's

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Speaker 2: he wasn't in the picture. And I've heard various things

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Speaker 2: from different people, you know, but it's it's all sort

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Speaker 2: of hearsay.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: We did try and reach we did try and reach

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Speaker 2: out to him, but he definitely, he certainly wasn't in

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Speaker 2: the picture, and it was definitely very much. She had

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Speaker 2: this kind of intense relationship with her mum, as you

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Speaker 2: kind of do when you have single parent families. In

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Speaker 2: that way, she ractively effectively was you know, single parent family, right,

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Speaker 2: I mean you hear the nine nine nine nine one one? Cool? Sorry,

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Speaker 2: you know from when her mom says, I can't control

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Speaker 2: her anymore.

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Speaker 1: Yes, that's a black guy, right, yeah, yeah, was that Sheila?

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Speaker 2: That was Rachel Rachel che I can't control her anymore.

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Speaker 1: I lost it. She's completely lost it, exactly exactly. So

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Speaker 1: I'm like, my head is spinning. I have so much

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Speaker 1: to ask you, So let me ask you this. A

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Speaker 1: lot of talk about the brothers, the drug dealers, and

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Speaker 1: when the night of was. I guess there's no way

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Speaker 1: to know for sure. Did they ever say yes, we

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Speaker 1: were on heroin or we were on I'm picturing some

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Speaker 1: kind of drug that would have altered their brain to

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Speaker 1: actually allow them to do what they did.

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Speaker 2: There was talk about them smoking some weed and that

355
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Speaker 2: was about it. There was no but you know, it

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Speaker 2: was interesting, it was it was the one thing. It

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Speaker 2: was the most credible thing that that we that everybody

358
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Speaker 2: thought that had happened, was that somebody had taken Skyler

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Speaker 2: out and got her heart or basically an accidental overdose

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Speaker 2: in some form. That was the kind of that was

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Speaker 2: the most likely thing. And right up until the very end,

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Speaker 2: I think I think that's what the FBI were thinking

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Speaker 2: when they were interviewing Rachel, that they were going to

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Speaker 2: say she accidentally overdose. We hid her body because we

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Speaker 2: were scared blah blah blah, you know, or something along

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Speaker 2: these lens, and we dragged her out. We forcibly gave

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Speaker 2: her too much because we thought it would be funny.

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Speaker 1: Right right, you know this and that all seems made sense,

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Speaker 1: of course, yeah.

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Speaker 2: And that kind of would make sense, and you could

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Speaker 2: kind of imagine that happening. And I think right up

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Speaker 2: until the very end, and they were experimenting. But it's

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Speaker 2: hard to say exactly how much Skyla was taking, you know,

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Speaker 2: whether she was really kind of going as far as

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Speaker 2: Sheila was in terms of her drug taking.

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Speaker 1: Well, I wasn't even thinking about Skyler getting in the car.

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Speaker 1: I was thinking about how much is there exact could

378
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Speaker 1: that be a reason that they were so drugged up?

379
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Speaker 1: But and I'm not talking about pop but it's like,

380
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Speaker 1: I keep looking for an answer to this. Probably yeah,

381
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Speaker 1: a question that will never be answered.

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Speaker 2: If they were you'd be thinking, oh, well, obviously this

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Speaker 2: is a crime of passion or it's a crime of accident.

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Speaker 2: But they planned this. That's great. I now.

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Speaker 1: I talked to my producers about that before we started.

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Speaker 1: That is a thing that even if they were on

387
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Speaker 1: god knows what, hallucinogenics or whatever, it still this was

388
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Speaker 1: their plan. The plan was not just also to you know,

389
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Speaker 1: to throw some stuff in her diet coke. It was

390
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Speaker 1: testine no tab her to stab.

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Speaker 2: Her practica with knives, with a shovel, with all the

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Speaker 2: all the things that they needed. They talked about it

393
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Speaker 2: for days, planned the day that they were going to

394
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Speaker 2: do it. You know, there were all these things, and

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Speaker 2: I think one of the chilling things that gets me

396
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Speaker 2: is that is the fact that it's one of the

397
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Speaker 2: things that Perry or Marsha said that the prosecutors and

398
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Speaker 2: they said all it would have taken was for one

399
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Speaker 2: of them to say, hey, should.

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Speaker 1: We not do this?

401
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Speaker 2: You know, it just just would have taken that, just

402
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Speaker 2: that small thing.

403
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Speaker 1: Yeah. So with that, it's interesting to me how the

404
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:30,560
Speaker 1: two of them, it felt like Sheila was a ringleader,

405
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Speaker 1: at least to me, but in the end they got

406
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Speaker 1: very different sentences, and having to do with the fact

407
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Speaker 1: that Rachel cooperated, I guess with law enforcement.

408
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Speaker 2: And you know, if you confess, you own the narrative,

409
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Speaker 2: don't you. That's the thing that if you're the first one,

410
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Speaker 2: you own it. You own the narrative and it's your

411
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Speaker 2: your you know.

412
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Speaker 1: But even so, but the way that that law enforcement

413
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Speaker 1: they said when she admitted to what they had done specifically,

414
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Speaker 1: I guess the stabbing, they couldn't believe it. They were

415
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Speaker 1: in shock. The one the law enforcement in the room,

416
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Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe it was FBI at the time,

417
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Speaker 1: And then they talked about how also law enforcement was

418
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Speaker 1: talking about it again, I don't know if it was

419
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Speaker 1: the police or the FBI can't I'm not sure, But

420
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Speaker 1: about how when they finally got Sheila in the room,

421
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Speaker 1: was it I hope that I'm keeping this right. When

422
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Speaker 1: she took her fingernails and she scratched them down the table,

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Speaker 1: and that, to me was like the first time that

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, whoa, whoa, this is a monster,

425
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Speaker 1: she's psycho. But that almost I felt like that was

426
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Speaker 1: the first time that they were coming to terms with

427
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Speaker 1: the fact that these girls could do that, do you

428
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Speaker 1: know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean that that was a bit early,

430
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Speaker 2: But I think it's kind of like that was her.

431
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Speaker 2: She was losing control because she I mean, she was

432
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Speaker 2: kind of running rings around them all.

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Speaker 1: Really like these.

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Speaker 2: Two girls were kind of like big and in part

435
00:21:56,040 --> 00:22:01,040
Speaker 2: because nobody suspected that to go Els could do something

436
00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:04,720
Speaker 2: quite so horrific, And actually the only person who who

437
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:08,280
Speaker 2: had their suspicions, possibly more than anybody.

438
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 1: Else, was Daniel.

439
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 2: Well it was I was going to say, in terms

440
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,639
Speaker 2: of the police was actually was just col Bank, the

441
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,919
Speaker 2: female police officer. Yes, yeah, me always thinks is that

442
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 2: because you know, only girls no good can be you know?

443
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:27,000
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, wow. Okay, So here's a question I

444
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:30,280
Speaker 1: have to have answered. So Rachel told Fantasia what they

445
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 1: had done. Right, Fantasia was the friend Rachel.

446
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:37,640
Speaker 2: Rachel lied. Rachel said that Sheila had stabbed.

447
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:42,040
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and she knew nothing about it, right, So

448
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:46,919
Speaker 1: my question was, was Fantasia ever approached in terms of

449
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 1: you knew about this, you should have done something about

450
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:54,639
Speaker 1: this poor young girl who I personally play zero blame on.

451
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 1: But I'm just asking was that did she ever have

452
00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,320
Speaker 1: a problem because she knew and didn't you know?

453
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:04,399
Speaker 2: Well, so when when Rachel told Fantasia, Rachel had already

454
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,040
Speaker 2: told the police. She was just out at that point.

455
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 2: This is what's like kind of really scared, I think

456
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,879
Speaker 2: sometimes quite frightening to kind of get your head around.

457
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:17,320
Speaker 2: Is that Rachel confessed she'd taken them to at that point,

458
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 2: had she taken them to where the body is or

459
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:19,960
Speaker 2: she tried to take them to.

460
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:21,920
Speaker 1: Where too much the snow was there?

461
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then she has and then her mom somehow

462
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:27,200
Speaker 2: lets her have a sleepover with her friend.

463
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 1: Thank you for bringing that up. What the fuck? So, yes, sorry,

464
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:35,200
Speaker 1: excuse me, but what the fuck?

465
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know, It's just that's just

466
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:41,359
Speaker 2: absolute madness. And so Paul Fandasia is like having a

467
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,480
Speaker 2: sleepover with her, you know, like her best friend, perfectively,

468
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:47,479
Speaker 2: you know, and having this great, great evening and then

469
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:49,359
Speaker 2: Rachel confesses.

470
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 1: They were laughing, talking talking talking. Hey, by the way,

471
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 1: ps our friend Sheila stabbed Skylight a death like it

472
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,399
Speaker 1: was just so yeah, so bizarre.

473
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,359
Speaker 2: Exactly. It's horrific. And this is what I mean about,

474
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 2: it's so horrific what these what these girls, what these

475
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 2: typical these friends have have had to kind of go through.

476
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:14,359
Speaker 2: Because there's one thing having your high school friends who's

477
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:16,400
Speaker 2: sitting on the decks and the desk next to you

478
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 2: kind of like disappear and find out that they're murdered.

479
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:21,359
Speaker 2: But it's another thing to find out it's the people

480
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 2: on the on the desk on the other side of

481
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 2: you that are the perpet faces. That's I'm in such

482
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 2: cold blood and that's I mean, there's there's nothing to say.

483
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 2: That's what it is.

484
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 1: No, I mean, that's the that is the part that

485
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 1: is just so hard to reconcile. So also, what I

486
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:39,400
Speaker 1: thought was really interesting is that Sheila's parent and Rachel's

487
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:43,439
Speaker 1: parents seemed to me from what what you know when watching,

488
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 1: I feel like they were very polar opposite, right, So,

489
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:51,679
Speaker 1: where Rachel's parents were religious and strict, Sheila's mom apparently

490
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 1: was very easy going. And that's well that's how it sounded.

491
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 1: And I thought so even that we can't even point

492
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,359
Speaker 1: to like the parenting style, because it sounds like they

493
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 1: were they did, they had these opposite parenting styles.

494
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's so many things in this that are kind

495
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 2: of really because I think this is what everybody tries

496
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 2: to kind of like grasp but straws. So you know,

497
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 2: what could it possibly be? And Sheila's mum was quite

498
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 2: permissive in some ways. I mean, I think that she

499
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,120
Speaker 2: was probably struggling as well. She was a single mum

500
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 2: as well. She had a new boyfriend who I think

501
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 2: was taking a lot of attention away from from Sheila

502
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 2: as well. I don't think I personally don't think that

503
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 2: Sheila was treated well by This is no excuse for

504
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,640
Speaker 2: any of this at all, but I don't was treated

505
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 2: well by boys generally. I think the things that happened

506
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 2: that she would twist and say oh yeah, you know,

507
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,200
Speaker 2: and then make out like she was promiscuous on purpose.

508
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 2: I wonder whether in a post Me Too era we

509
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 2: would kind of reframe what happened to her slightly differently.

510
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 2: But I still don't think any of that is nothing

511
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:57,400
Speaker 2: at all.

512
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 1: What about their their sexual relationship, She'll and Rachel, do

513
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,639
Speaker 1: you think that because it did sound like, you know,

514
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 1: it sounded like Rachel was so afraid for that to

515
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 1: come out, that they were also involved in a sexual relationship,

516
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 1: and that maybe part of it was that they were

517
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:32,200
Speaker 1: so afraid that Skylar was going to out them. Yeah,

518
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 1: but is that how much? What are you It's hard to.

519
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 2: You know, like it's really hard. I think there's a

520
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 2: few things about this. I'm not saying that there's nothing

521
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,679
Speaker 2: to that at all. However, I think it's it depends

522
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,119
Speaker 2: you can listen to the facts in both ways and

523
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,399
Speaker 2: kind of there's a lot of people who say, you know,

524
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,439
Speaker 2: were they really having a relationship or not? Was it

525
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 2: just experimentation, of which there was a lot of things

526
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 2: kind of going on at the time.

527
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 1: And they said somebody one of their friends said it

528
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: wasn't that stigmatized even though it was twenty twelve, that

529
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,880
Speaker 1: there were other same sex relationships going on at their school.

530
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 1: I don't know, Yeah, this is the thing.

531
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 2: I think in some ways it was. I mean, it

532
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,400
Speaker 2: was twenty twelve, but it's still kind of I don't

533
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 2: know whether it would be you know, would it be

534
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 2: so bad that she would kill for that. I don't know.

535
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:23,479
Speaker 2: And also there's no actual Skyla was very supportive of

536
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:25,879
Speaker 2: people like that. There's no evidence that Skyla was this

537
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 2: big homophobe and all this, you know, I mean.

538
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,440
Speaker 1: Oh no, not that. But even maybe she kept saying

539
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,440
Speaker 1: she has a lot of information that she could say there.

540
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 1: But even if they were that scared, obviously this is

541
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 1: shit that goes down in every high school every day.

542
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 1: This is not that unusual. You know, there's nothing that

543
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:48,679
Speaker 1: I felt like while I was watching it, there was like, oh, okay,

544
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 1: this is why they were so scared.

545
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 2: I think there's a couple of things as well that

546
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 2: it's kind of like a you know, there's one argument

547
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 2: as well that I mean, I've heard rumors of and

548
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 2: I haven't had verified that she's had Rachel's had relationships,

549
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 2: maybe even married another woman in prison, So you could

550
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 2: argue that that's you know, evidence in one direction. But

551
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 2: also this this angle about the lesbian relationship only came

552
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,719
Speaker 2: out when she was she did her first parole hearing,

553
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 2: really and actually I think it was in a book.

554
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 2: First of all, that I think there was a book

555
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 2: that maybe hinted at it, and then after that she

556
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 2: then brought it up in a parole hearing. But at

557
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 2: the time, Rachel had all these opportunities, as did Sheila,

558
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 2: to say, hey guys, it was a crime of passion

559
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:35,919
Speaker 2: and that they could have come up with all of

560
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 2: this stuff, for she had so much opportunity to do it,

561
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 2: and at no point any did she do that. You know,

562
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 2: she didn't mention it once.

563
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 1: But guess what, even without doing that, she's getting out

564
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 1: in two years. What is that about? I know, I

565
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 1: tried as adults, so explain to me that why is

566
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 1: she only doing fifteen years? I guess that's another kind

567
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 1: of question, right, But that I just with whatever what

568
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 1: her lawyer said or did this crazy Listen, it's very

569
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 1: tempting for me to call her names because I'm so

570
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:16,719
Speaker 1: disgusted right and say, from where I'm sitting, these are monsters.

571
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 1: These are not human people. I can't accept the fact

572
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 1: they're even human. But a much better person than I

573
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 1: would be able to find the humanity somewhere. You had

574
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 1: a way of doing that, even with what it was,

575
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: right like, you were able to look into their humanity.

576
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, one of the things that's really I mean,

577
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 2: in some ways, the fact that they both pleaded guilty,

578
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 2: means that Dave and Mary was saved a long drawn

579
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 2: out trial, you know, so there was no trial. But

580
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 2: also the flip side of that is because there was

581
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 2: no trial, there's no investigation of the why. You know,

582
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 2: there's like they kind of they've got the how it

583
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 2: was done and what happened, and so therefore in order

584
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 2: to convict them, they didn't know need to know the

585
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 2: motive really, so nobody ever asked that, nobody dug into it,

586
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 2: nobody ever did all these things like digging into their

587
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 2: past and asked put them on trial and put them

588
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 2: on the stand and ask them why they did and

589
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 2: all that.

590
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 1: Wow.

591
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 2: And so that's part of the intrigue of all of

592
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 2: this as well, is that. But it's also it's kind

593
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 2: of almost I know, I don't know. I can't speak

594
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 2: for David Mary and what it must be like for them,

595
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 2: but it's almost kind of painful that we don't know

596
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 2: any reasons.

597
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm wondering if it was a mixed bag, right,

598
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 1: Like probably glad that they were convicted so quickly, but

599
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 1: also so many unanswered questions. Right, what do you think, Claire,

600
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 1: you are the closest to this, what do you think, like,

601
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 1: are they just were they born evil? No?

602
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 2: I don't, well I don't. I'm as somebody once said,

603
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 2: there's no such thing as an evil person, but just

604
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 2: evil people can do evil things. And I remember speaking

605
00:30:55,320 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 2: to somebody about it, a disreturney who I met on

606
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:02,719
Speaker 2: a flight once, and I remember them talking to them

607
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 2: about it and saying, and they said that the chances

608
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 2: of them being psychopaths or sociopaths or whatever it is

609
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 2: is so small, particularly for women. And I can't tell

610
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 2: you why they did this. I think part of there's

611
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 2: so many small reasons. I think part of it is

612
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,719
Speaker 2: that is being that age. Not that all teenagers are

613
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,959
Speaker 2: capable of this, but there is something about that age

614
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 2: when you just your brave consequences are a little bit arbitrary,

615
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 2: and they're a bit abstract. You know, you don't really

616
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 2: understand kind of you know what's going on. You think

617
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 2: you're an adult, and you behave like an adult, and

618
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 2: you quite frankly look like an adult from the outside

619
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 2: a lot. But if you you know, as if you've

620
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 2: had like teenagers, you'll know one minute that you'll be

621
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 2: conversing with them like they're kind of like thirty and

622
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 2: you'll think, what's brilliant, and the next minute they'll behave

623
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 2: like a toddler, and it's it is a bit like that.

624
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: But Claire, it's that it's the brutality of the murder.

625
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 1: It's oh, that's the part that I can't reconcile.

626
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 2: No, I can't say that. I've got to be I

627
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 2: can't understand that either, and I have. And it's the

628
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 2: repeatedness of it, and that I can only think is

629
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 2: it's it's an evil, evil act, evil act what they do.

630
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 2: I don't know.

631
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 1: Again, I'm not I'm just not that good of a

632
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 1: woman that I could. I can't find the I can't

633
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 1: find humanity in them. And I don't think you could

634
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 1: have done a better job of explaining their humanity and

635
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: describing their humanity. I'm not talking about Skyler, obviously, I

636
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,719
Speaker 1: love her and I've met her and I'm mourning her

637
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:38,959
Speaker 1: loss now, you know. But like that for Sheila and Rachel,

638
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 1: I am. I can't figure out how these are human

639
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 1: girls and yet you represented them in such a wonderful

640
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 1: like it's the whole situation in a human way. With

641
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 1: all of the friends, they were all friends, they all

642
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 1: did things together, Rachel was in theater, you know, and

643
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,959
Speaker 1: they have these boyfriends and crazy.

644
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 2: It's really hard as a filmmaker actually, because in one

645
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 2: way you want to go, these are just evil people

646
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 2: and we mustn't kind of like give them screen time.

647
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 2: And I was particularly nervous about giving them a voice,

648
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 2: you know, with actors as well, and that was you know,

649
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 2: I was because I really wanted Skyler to have a

650
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 2: voice throughout this, but I didn't. I didn't want their

651
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 2: voices to become overwhelming or have more than Skyler. And

652
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 2: you know, it's so easy to give that, you know,

653
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 2: it's not their story. I didn't want it to be

654
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 2: their story. However, at the same time, you know, we

655
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 2: realized quite early on that in order to show how

656
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 2: how this had happened to an extent, maybe not why,

657
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 2: but how it had happened, you had to understand why

658
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 2: Skyler loved these people, because she loved them both.

659
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 1: Wow, that's interesting, that's so interesting.

660
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, you have to kind of get that and understand

661
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 2: why why they all love each other, you know, why

662
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 2: they had this intense relationship so and Skyler, you know,

663
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,959
Speaker 2: it wasn't an need, you know, she she loved them

664
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 2: for a reason, because they were funny, they were engaging,

665
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 2: made a laugh, and.

666
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 1: I saw all their like, all their little messages to

667
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 1: each other reminded me of the messages that my daughter particularly,

668
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 1: not my son as much, but it was love you

669
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,279
Speaker 1: love you, love you, love you, love you, you know, your

670
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: girly bestie, bestie, bestie, like just the silly sh that

671
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 1: girls that age, you know, right, And you got to

672
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:24,239
Speaker 1: see not only Skylar's messages, but the girls and the

673
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 1: way that they wrote. I mean, is there any way, Claire,

674
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 1: you know, parents out there, I don't even know. I

675
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 1: have no idea how you would even answer this is this?

676
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 1: Is there anything in there, any kind of insight in

677
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 1: this in terms of the story, not just in terms

678
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 1: of how you represented it, that would like help a parent, Okay,

679
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:45,919
Speaker 1: this is something to look for.

680
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 2: I think it's just more about like open lines of communication,

681
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 2: you know, It's more about kind of knowing that they

682
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,360
Speaker 2: I've got to say, there was something very unique that

683
00:34:56,400 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 2: happened in this to this, just this say, this particular group,

684
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:05,320
Speaker 2: this generation, this particular era twenty twelve was particularly unique

685
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:10,320
Speaker 2: because it was the era when social media was brand

686
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 2: new and adults just didn't know what was going on?

687
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 2: Right right, I go to talks at my daughter's school

688
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 2: about how evil social media is, and we you know,

689
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 2: and I'm not saying that we know better, because horrendous

690
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,799
Speaker 2: things happen all the time still, but there is a

691
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 2: little bit more of an understanding than that it was

692
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 2: the wild West entirely. So I'm kind of explaining that

693
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,360
Speaker 2: because I don't want to be like, oh, you know,

694
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 2: David Morrow, whoever, their parents should have been listening more.

695
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:41,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's very interesting because I actually, yeah, I mean

696
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 1: I felt that. I felt that about, you know, the

697
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,800
Speaker 1: fact that even the police didn't understand it, didn't understand

698
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 1: the social media of it. One thing I do want

699
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,720
Speaker 1: to ask you is that they found the phone records

700
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 1: Sheila and Rachel and put them I think in what

701
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,800
Speaker 1: is it called black Backxville, Blacksville, right at four in

702
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 1: the morning or something. Where were those Why did it

703
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:07,760
Speaker 1: take so long for them to oh, uncover those phone records?

704
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 2: I mean for status, Like, I think there was a

705
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:12,799
Speaker 2: lot of things with the police that was slow for

706
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 2: various reasons. But even when they did kind of start

707
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 2: kind of things kicking in because we were asking this question,

708
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 2: they were arriving on like CD ROMs. I mean, you forget,

709
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:24,799
Speaker 2: it's like twenty twelve and you think was like the

710
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,879
Speaker 2: other day, but they had like they still had those

711
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 2: like those discs, do you know what do you remember?

712
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 2: And that's how the phone records were arriving on a

713
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:33,760
Speaker 2: disc in the post.

714
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 1: I guess I thought just because the FBI got involved.

715
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 1: I get it, what the social media of it all,

716
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,239
Speaker 1: h was hard to sort of for them to key into.

717
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:43,400
Speaker 1: But phone records I would have thought would have at

718
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:44,840
Speaker 1: least in twenty twelve have been.

719
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 2: No, they were still they were they were emailing the

720
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 2: company and they were sending them back in a you know,

721
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 2: on a CD ROM and then they were being kind

722
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:54,240
Speaker 2: of printed.

723
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 1: At Yeah, but you did think that there were some

724
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 1: things that went down slowly in terms of law enforcement.

725
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 2: It's there's a lot of frustrations when doing this, and

726
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 2: I think anybody watching this series will be kind of like,

727
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 2: why didn't they see this sooner? And it's and it's

728
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 2: so easy to see things in.

729
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 1: Hindsight twenty twenty, right, it is.

730
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 2: But also I just you know, it's those girls I

731
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 2: think were running rings around the police. You know, they

732
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 2: really really were and and and quite frankly, if there

733
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 2: wasn't a confession, you know, would this have been solved.

734
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 2: It's you know, it's kind of it's hard to.

735
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 1: Know really and do you think that is because in part,

736
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 1: it's just too hard to believe. It's just too hard

737
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 1: for even the police to get to think that this

738
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 1: could have been the reality of the situation. And then

739
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 1: to kids, I forget what, I'm sorry. What was the

740
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 1: female detective's name, Jess Collbank Jess. I felt like Jess

741
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,800
Speaker 1: was the most She really was sort of the most insightful.

742
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 1: And you said earlier maybe because she's a woman, but

743
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 1: she it felt to me like she was the one

744
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 1: that really was there was an inkling for her that

745
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:04,840
Speaker 1: this is probably maybe, yeah, what had happened.

746
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 2: I think also there was this genuine belief from the

747
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 2: police and the FBI that the girls were victims, and

748
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,360
Speaker 2: so they were tiptoeing.

749
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:17,840
Speaker 1: Around Dylan and Derek.

750
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:22,319
Speaker 2: Is that because of Dylan Derek? But also I think

751
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:24,399
Speaker 2: just generally they were kind of thinking, you know, these

752
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 2: are young, impressionable girls. They probably even David Mary thought that, right, So,

753
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 2: but this is you know, exactly exactly and what.

754
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 1: About Dylan and Derek. By the way, was there any

755
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:37,879
Speaker 1: justice for Dylan and Derek? I know, maybe they weren't,

756
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 1: maybe they weren't the straightest kids in the world. But

757
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 1: when I was watching, I was like, Wow, so they

758
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,319
Speaker 1: didn't do the bank robbery and they were no way

759
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 1: responsible for this.

760
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 2: That nobody's ever been charged for the bank robbery. Okay,

761
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 2: that's all we can say. Okay, is that nobody's ever

762
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 2: been charged for the bank robbery.

763
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 1: And where are they now?

764
00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 2: I believe they're in the same area, but I don't.

765
00:38:59,160 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 2: I don't know.

766
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: I mean that felt very they what they must have

767
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 1: gone through. Did you ask them to be interviewer?

768
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 2: I think we did reach out to them kind of

769
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 2: early on. I think somebody I think somebody from the

770
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 2: team reached out to them kind of early on. But

771
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 2: I think understandably, it's not something that they probably wanted

772
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 2: to be involved in in that.

773
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 1: In that regard, no, I would understand that too. Yeah,

774
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:26,440
Speaker 1: so how does this you know? Now you move on

775
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 1: to your next project?

776
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 2: Yeah?

777
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 1: Do you are you is there residual pain from this

778
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:35,800
Speaker 1: or is there you know, has it affected your life

779
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:38,279
Speaker 1: or were you able to compartmentalize?

780
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 2: I don't think you ever can. I think it always does,

781
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 2: and it and it affects you in ways that you

782
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:45,359
Speaker 2: don't kind of imagine. It's something that I did watch it.

783
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:47,319
Speaker 2: You know, my daughter did watch it as we kind

784
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 2: of went along, So it wasn't a big shock when

785
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 2: she saw it, and and we talked about the issues

786
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 2: in it, and and that's you know, that that's something

787
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 2: that kind of we've discussed a lot. And and I'm

788
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 2: not worried. I mean, I'm not genuinely worried about her

789
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 2: being her best friends. But we talked about the importance

790
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 2: about talking openly about feelings and about heightened emotions, I suppose,

791
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:13,839
Speaker 2: and in that kind of a way, and how things

792
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 2: can feel a little bit out of control sometimes. So

793
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:19,799
Speaker 2: that you know, I hope that's kind of improved that

794
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 2: relationship in that kind of a way. Something always stays

795
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 2: with you. I tell you what. Morgantown, West Virginia is

796
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 2: always going to be a part of my heart. I

797
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 2: was there kind of so many times over the course

798
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 2: of ten months, and so you know, it's sort of

799
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 2: a cliche, but I've left a little bit of my

800
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 2: heart over there is kind of it's a beautiful, beautiful

801
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 2: part of the world. That's definitely kind of made a difference.

802
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:44,240
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think caution. I think it's very easy

803
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 2: for us to be like I don't think there are

804
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 2: any easy answers to this story, which is part of

805
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 2: the reason why I'm really drawn to it. I don't

806
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 2: think there are any easy morals. There's no kind of like,

807
00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:58,800
Speaker 2: keep your kids off social media and they won't be

808
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:00,799
Speaker 2: stabed by their friends. There's not It's not that kind

809
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 2: of clearat's This was a unique set of circumstances in

810
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 2: so many ways, you know, the social media aspect of it,

811
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 2: the kind of the you know, the fact that it

812
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 2: was kind of effectively bullying on social media, the fact

813
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 2: that they were these teenagers, the fact that these things

814
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 2: were going on in their lives, and I mean so

815
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:20,479
Speaker 2: many things that so many things kind of like came

816
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 2: together for this to happen, and it was a particularly

817
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:26,839
Speaker 2: unique set of circumstances. But more open discussions, I think

818
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 2: is the is the kind of one takeaway that I'll

819
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:29,759
Speaker 2: get from this.

820
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:32,480
Speaker 1: I think that for me was two things. It was

821
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:36,840
Speaker 1: at the end of it frustrating, and yet that's what

822
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 1: made it so fascinating that I don't know I watched it.

823
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 1: I watched it again, and I'm probably gonna watch it

824
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:48,279
Speaker 1: again because I'm obsessed. But that I just there are

825
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 1: no answers. That's what is. You can ponder that. And

826
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,799
Speaker 1: I have been now, you know, since I since watching it,

827
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 1: trying to make sense of it. But they all you.

828
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 1: I just think you did a stupid job of showing

829
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:05,800
Speaker 1: the humanity. It was a situation that doesn't feel human,

830
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 1: you know.

831
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,319
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you well painfully you have to kind

832
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:11,839
Speaker 2: of show it in order to be able to show

833
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 2: the heartbreak, don't you have to understand that in order

834
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 2: to be able to understand the heartbreak that Skyla went through.

835
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 1: But even watching Rachel's mom in the courtroom, you know,

836
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 1: you showed so you showing that was so interesting to me,

837
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 1: not just interesting, heartbreaking to me. And talk about I

838
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 1: guess unconditional love of a mother, yeah, you know. And

839
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 1: you know I've read some books I was selling our producers,

840
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 1: some fiction books and written in the voice of the

841
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 1: mother of you know, serial killers, and it always goes

842
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 1: back to this unconditional love. And you kind of even

843
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 1: though even though you were so angry at her, Yeah,

844
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 1: whatever she did or didn't do, you felt her pain.

845
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:02,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, we would, wouldn't we if our if our kids

846
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:05,319
Speaker 2: did something horrendous. I mean, I know, I mean, you know,

847
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 2: I know that you would still love them.

848
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, no matter what period. Yeah, it's just it's just

849
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 1: it's just the.

850
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 2: Way completely completely.

851
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, well you just tell me a little bit.

852
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,400
Speaker 1: I'm sure I could talk to you forever. But what

853
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 1: are your next because now I have to follow you

854
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 1: like a crazy person? What are your next projects?

855
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 2: Oh, I've got like two projects at the moment that

856
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 2: I'm juggling at the moment to see what they are,

857
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 2: and I can't talk about them, And I say, they're

858
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 2: very like different. But I think the thing that I

859
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:36,799
Speaker 2: am always drawn to is things that don't have kind

860
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 2: of black and white answers, you know, that are kind

861
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 2: of a little bit on the edge and a little

862
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 2: bit where you know you Yeah, they don't have an easy,

863
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:50,839
Speaker 2: easy answer. I think maybe yeah, the friends like these.

864
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 2: One of the things that did attract me was the

865
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:55,279
Speaker 2: fact that although it's frustrating the fact that there's no

866
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 2: kind of like clear motive to it all, but actually

867
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 2: I find that kind of more interesting because it makes

868
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 2: you dig deeper, you know, and like kind of to

869
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:06,279
Speaker 2: try and to try and kind of get to that. So, yeah,

870
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:08,319
Speaker 2: the projects I've got kind of like bubbling away at

871
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 2: the moment are both in that kind of vein.

872
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 1: Are you Are you able to tell me if they're

873
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 1: true crime?

874
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 2: No? Nothing does true crime? Actually it's yeah, no, nothing

875
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 2: that's true crime.

876
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:20,440
Speaker 1: It's not going to be your new genre. It's not

877
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 1: going to be eager.

878
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 2: I would never say never. But then I didn't approach

879
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 2: this as a true crime as such. I never It

880
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,759
Speaker 2: was only in hindsight I was like, oh, yeah, we're

881
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 2: making a true crime. I just felt like we were

882
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 2: making a story about uh, you know, Skylnis and her

883
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 2: disappearance and then her story, and you know, that's a

884
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:42,359
Speaker 2: sort of that's why we tried so hard to make

885
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 2: it feel much more like a teen movie than than

886
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:47,799
Speaker 2: than like like a true crime, you know. And and

887
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:50,480
Speaker 2: we and of course we use kind of true crime

888
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 2: tropes and techniques to cut you know that that kind

889
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:56,239
Speaker 2: of work, you know, And and we totally use those,

890
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:59,520
Speaker 2: but they weren't the starting point at any point. The

891
00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 2: starting point was like, how do we get Skyla's voice

892
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 2: through this? How can we give her a voice back?

893
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 2: You know? How can we make the audience understand what

894
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:10,360
Speaker 2: it was like to be her and like to be

895
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 2: her friends back you know, back then, rather than kind

896
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 2: of like put the audience in the kind of their now.

897
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 2: How can we help the audience solve this crime. It's

898
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:19,960
Speaker 2: kind of like it's a crime that's kind of out there,

899
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 2: you know, as you said, it's you know, you can

900
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 2: google it and see it's it's a relatively relatively kind

901
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:28,280
Speaker 2: of well known. So we definitely wanted to bring something

902
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 2: totally different to it, you know, and something that we

903
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:33,920
Speaker 2: felt we felt hadn't been done in this in this

904
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 2: way before.

905
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 1: Well I've never seen anything like it. And Skyler will

906
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 1: be and her parents will be in my prayers. I

907
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 1: will literally get choked up saying that to you. That's

908
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 1: the effect it had on me, her parents just so,

909
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:51,280
Speaker 1: I mean, if that's any consolation to them, your your

910
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:54,800
Speaker 1: work has touched me, I can and I'm very great.

911
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:55,279
Speaker 1: Thank you.

912
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:59,320
Speaker 2: It means so much. She really really does.

913
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:01,400
Speaker 1: All right, Claire, thank you for joining us. Thank you,

914
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:03,880
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. We appreciate you lovely