Speaker 1: What's up, y'all.
Speaker 2: It's your boy Marcello's whiley dad dude, Yes, sir, y'all
Speaker 2: know where I'm at. Check out my boy, Bootleg Cav
Speaker 2: on this podcast.
Speaker 1: It's the Bootleg cav Podcast. Special guests in here, NFL Legend,
Speaker 1: TV Legend got a great YouTube channel right now, that
Speaker 1: part Marcellus Wiley is here. Yeah, what do it do, baby, buddy?
Speaker 1: Good to see you. Oh, thanks for the free drink
Speaker 1: of course, a hit you're pulling up, man, Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: crazy because I've been watching you for so long on
Speaker 1: TV man, like I'm like a hardcore sports just maniac.
Speaker 1: And between your NFL career that your TV career, which
Speaker 1: is almost as legendary as your NFL career, Not a
Speaker 1: lot of people have double digit like real runs on TV,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. Yeah, And when I think
Speaker 1: of like everything you did at ESPN and then helping
Speaker 1: build FS one into what it is today, like what's
Speaker 1: going on right now because you're obviously not on TV
Speaker 1: right now, No, not right now and maybe not right
Speaker 1: ever right now because why I mean yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: see like your tube channel's going well and you can
Speaker 1: say whatever you want.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a whole different animal now when you talk
Speaker 2: about sports media, but not to get that deep into it,
Speaker 2: I guess to take you back, I was going to
Speaker 2: be a school teacher and I just kept getting bigger, faster, stronger,
Speaker 2: end up being a football player. But my heart and
Speaker 2: my mind has always been locked in and helping others
Speaker 2: forking road kids because I was that kid growing up,
Speaker 2: you know, And I didn't think I was special, and
Speaker 2: I don't think in those terms that you got to
Speaker 2: be special to have success. It's just a science to
Speaker 2: life that you got to make sure that you buy
Speaker 2: into and follow your passions and properly enhance your talents
Speaker 2: and things go well for you. And that could look
Speaker 2: a lot of different ways. For me, it was going
Speaker 2: to be working at LA Unified in the ninth grade somewhere.
Speaker 3: Man's that's all I needed.
Speaker 2: But things took different turns and detours, and you know,
Speaker 2: happy with my journey, you fast forward from there. So
Speaker 2: I had this moment where I'm getting recruited by all
Speaker 2: these schools and everybody's.
Speaker 1: Oh, where you going. Where'd you go to a high
Speaker 1: school in Compton? No, I didn't go to studio or
Speaker 1: where you where're you going to school at because you
Speaker 1: grew up in Compton.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm from Compton, born, raised there till like
Speaker 2: age five, age six. Then we move off Slawson and
Speaker 2: Greener Pastors and that turned into South Central. So my
Speaker 2: family just kept going to other places. My grandmother from
Speaker 2: wats to Compton, mother Compton South Central. I went to
Speaker 2: Westchester for two years Saint Monica's. Had to get up
Speaker 2: super early five in the morning to ride with my
Speaker 2: mom all the way out to Santa Monica. So I
Speaker 2: was gonna be this school teacher man. And then all
Speaker 2: of a sudden, I'm getting recruited by all these schools
Speaker 2: and it's for football and just growing up the way
Speaker 2: I grew up, and knowing I've seen more talented guys
Speaker 2: than me, knowing kind of the hotels that go on,
Speaker 2: you know this God didn't make it all. This guy
Speaker 2: came back with an excuse. So this guy said, coach tripping.
Speaker 2: I just kept hearing it and I decided to go
Speaker 2: to Columbia. So I go to Ivy League school and
Speaker 2: it was a roll of the dice. People are like, oh, damn,
Speaker 2: you ain't gonna go to the NFL. From the Ivy
Speaker 2: League school, and I was like, all right, I'm not
Speaker 2: the type that cares what people say good or bad.
Speaker 2: I'm like more I add up those with me and
Speaker 2: not against me. So then you you fast forward. I
Speaker 2: do get drafted. I get drafted second round. I played
Speaker 2: ten years and then I had that moment again where
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm a broadcast. Now people think about
Speaker 2: it in different terms than they did back then two
Speaker 2: thousand and six, two thousand and seven, if you were
Speaker 2: a broadcaster, there was like a stigma almost like damn,
Speaker 2: you just finished playing ball and you're gonna spend all
Speaker 2: your money. You got to go work again, right, A
Speaker 2: little of that magic. Johnson certainly helped, and a couple
Speaker 2: other people that you Jalen Rose was around back then,
Speaker 2: you know Jon Rose. Yeah, so it was kind of
Speaker 2: like weird og John Sally on the Best dam Sport?
Speaker 1: Remember that.
Speaker 2: Yes, So I used to go and he didn't help
Speaker 2: the narrative because people were like, oh, John Sally, he
Speaker 2: was kind of like bouncing.
Speaker 1: Around right right, right, He wasn't the best.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: And it was a weird place. And I'm not slighting anybody.
Speaker 2: I'm just telling you how the landscape was and it
Speaker 2: was real resistance. Like I was telling my boys in
Speaker 2: the locker room in Jacksonville, Dog, I'm about to go
Speaker 2: broadcast for what You're supposed to go somewhere and mess
Speaker 2: with girls and get fat and golf.
Speaker 1: And I was like, dog, I can't do that.
Speaker 2: So I rolled the dice there and then everything took
Speaker 2: off from there, working at NFL Network, ESPN, Fox, and
Speaker 2: I just right now I'm in my Columbia slash broadcasting
Speaker 2: slash independent world now where you got to roll the
Speaker 2: dice and bet on yourself because I just see how
Speaker 2: everything's getting fractured right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I think that that's like if anything, even
Speaker 1: like me because I traditionally worked and I'm still on
Speaker 1: the radio every night here in La, but I do
Speaker 1: it my own way. They contract my show. I'm syndicated,
Speaker 1: so I don't record my show from wherever I'm at.
Speaker 1: But it's like I feel like nowadays, if you're going
Speaker 1: to be a part of media or create content like that,
Speaker 1: as long as you're good and you're and people are interested, Yeah,
Speaker 1: like I feel like you kind of kind of do
Speaker 1: what you're doing. Do what I'm doing. It's like build
Speaker 1: your own platform.
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, And I'm late to the game, even though
Speaker 2: some people are saying I'm still early, because.
Speaker 1: I mean you're relatively early. You look at guys like
Speaker 1: Pat McAfee was like the guy you know and like
Speaker 1: the barstool guys, but like you're pretty early.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean in terms of like platform, like you know,
Speaker 2: McAfee undertended consequences, like he wanted to work at ESPN,
Speaker 2: et cetera. Didn't get the opportunity, thank god, right, and
Speaker 2: so he had to you know, he was forced to
Speaker 2: do it his way.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I wasn't in that position. I'm not in that
Speaker 1: position now, but.
Speaker 2: I just saw the rewards, not only in terms of
Speaker 2: on the extremes the success like you know him or
Speaker 2: Joe Rogan or the Paul Brothers like just damn, but
Speaker 2: more than that, they were doing it their way. They're
Speaker 2: authentic and from what I was doing, and I see
Speaker 2: it happening now with Stephen A.
Speaker 1: Smith.
Speaker 2: When you do network TV, no matter how real you are,
Speaker 2: it's coming off fake, Like people ain't feel you like
Speaker 2: you think they're feeling you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you still can't be one hundred percent honest, right,
Speaker 1: you have to still be very aware of Yeah, and.
Speaker 2: It's not just corporate sponsors and partners. That's the lazy layer.
Speaker 2: Everyone thinks it's broud of that. Nah, it's because of
Speaker 2: who you're working with. So you got teammates when you
Speaker 2: do it that way, and your teammates to protect them
Speaker 2: from looking bad or losing or them at times. You
Speaker 2: you got to play this game where we can't go
Speaker 2: all the way.
Speaker 1: I can't.
Speaker 2: I can't disagree with you to the fullest like I
Speaker 2: would in real life. Right, Like, dog, I don't believe
Speaker 2: that that's bullshit, but you know, on the errors, like.
Speaker 1: I can't say that, yeah, political, you got to be
Speaker 1: for the sake of good TV.
Speaker 2: You gotta you know, yeah, you gotta let them represent
Speaker 2: the other side, even though you're like, there's no other
Speaker 2: side on this one.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: So I got a little fatigue to that little law
Speaker 2: of association because if you let stuff live, then your brand,
Speaker 2: how people really process you becomes this hybrid of who
Speaker 2: that is, who that is, who you are, and it's
Speaker 2: like it's just too much gumbo. And I was like, damn,
Speaker 2: I'm not as authentic in reception as I thought I
Speaker 2: would be. At this point in my career, like forty
Speaker 2: eight years old, been doing this twenty almost thirty years,
Speaker 2: and cats is still not understanding purely what I'm about.
Speaker 1: They were like, Oh, I like you from Sports Nation.
Speaker 2: You were funny, but then on FS one, y'all were
Speaker 2: too deep, and I'm like, nog, I'm funny and deep.
Speaker 1: What the hell you like? They try to splice you up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I got a little fatigue that at the
Speaker 2: Law of Association. I would say the same thing at ESPN,
Speaker 2: the same exact thing at Fox, and one of them
Speaker 2: was like whatever, and the other one's like, oh you sellout?
Speaker 1: Are you mean?
Speaker 3: Are you changed? Are you different?
Speaker 1: So I just kind of got tired of being washed
Speaker 1: away with all that. I was going to say, have
Speaker 1: you watched because I just saw Stephen a reply to
Speaker 1: Dan Levatar. I saw that. I saw that and he's
Speaker 1: cutsing and shit, he's going in. I was like, oh shit,
Speaker 1: I was like steering a smith is He's unraveled. I
Speaker 1: love it, but he wouldn't be able to do that
Speaker 1: on TV.
Speaker 2: My point, man, it's a whole different animal. So you know,
Speaker 2: you kind of get to just be undressed, you know,
Speaker 2: you get to walk around the house baby boys, right
Speaker 2: right right right, yeah, most Breakfast, Like that's a podcast
Speaker 2: to me.
Speaker 1: And I was getting jealous when I was at Fox.
Speaker 2: No, Lie, I'm watching Jason Whitlock, who left regardless of
Speaker 2: the content.
Speaker 1: I just like that, you know. But he has his
Speaker 1: own his thing, He's got his him. Yeah. And I
Speaker 1: was like damn.
Speaker 2: And I was watching all these other cats out here,
Speaker 2: YouTubers moving in my neighborhood, and I'm like, damn, it
Speaker 2: took me ten years of football, twenty years of broadcast,
Speaker 2: and these suckers and moving in next door.
Speaker 1: I was like, Yo, the game changing for sure?
Speaker 2: When am I gonna bet on myself at forty eight
Speaker 2: or fifty two? When I be a fat and fool again?
Speaker 2: And then you know it was a hybrid. You know,
Speaker 2: Fox and I discussed a couple of hybrid situations. But
Speaker 2: I'm so focused on my family, like to a point
Speaker 2: where I don't like to travel at all, and people like, damn,
Speaker 2: you want to go here, go? I don't want to
Speaker 2: go on the boys strips and all did all that place.
Speaker 1: You've already done it all yeah and didn't get caught.
Speaker 2: So I'm like, I'm living. I want to be with
Speaker 2: my kids. I want to help raise them. I don't
Speaker 2: want to provide for them, right, But I'm distant in that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I feel like when you're a certain level
Speaker 1: of success, that era has to kind of happen. Right.
Speaker 1: It's very rare that you can be super present and
Speaker 1: still but like, I feel like once you hit that
Speaker 1: comfort area where you're like, hey, like now I can
Speaker 1: really apply myself to being at home and yeah, because
Speaker 1: I did all the tough work twenty years ago, ten
Speaker 1: years ago, except I built it. You mentioned Jason Whitlock. Huh.
Speaker 1: He obviously another guy who has had a very long
Speaker 1: career on TV. He is also a very polarizing film
Speaker 1: time major. You guys did speak for yourself? Yep, yep,
Speaker 1: which I believe that was your first You guys started
Speaker 1: that show together.
Speaker 2: Nah, Colin Coward and Jason Whitlock started it was.
Speaker 1: That's right, it was Colin and him. Yeah, so you
Speaker 1: came in once Colin went and just focused in on
Speaker 1: the radio rast TV. What was it like working with him?
Speaker 1: Because he has a lot of very interesting opinions. A
Speaker 1: lot of people say he's kind of like Uncle Ruckus.
Speaker 2: The memes I've seen the memes man, you know, like
Speaker 2: he's seen him too.
Speaker 1: Wilock is Whitlock. One thing about him.
Speaker 2: You can say whatever he is about what he believes
Speaker 2: and what he says.
Speaker 1: And that's what I like. Now, that doesn't mean he
Speaker 1: lives out all of that.
Speaker 3: I'm saying.
Speaker 2: His opinion is gonna be unwavering unless challenged by something greater.
Speaker 3: And I love that.
Speaker 2: I don't care how you get up to the top
Speaker 2: of your mountain, man, there's so many different paths. I'm
Speaker 2: not here to judge in that respect, but be you.
Speaker 2: That's what I love the most about him. Now, what's
Speaker 2: tough for being with Wilock is he's always gonna throw
Speaker 2: some extra hot sauce on no matter what he says.
Speaker 2: It could be the most simple of takes. He's gonna
Speaker 2: put some spice on it. And at times I feel
Speaker 2: that's unnecessary, but that's how he serves it. So you
Speaker 2: got to either eat it or you're gonna be mad
Speaker 2: at it, you know. And I remember when he first
Speaker 2: I worked with him at ESPN plan at times, and
Speaker 2: then he started coming.
Speaker 1: Over the crib.
Speaker 2: He was like, Yo, your contract up, you need to
Speaker 2: come over here. Got this family style show. We're gonna
Speaker 2: do kind of like the Cosby Show for sports and
Speaker 2: you know, you're such a great father and what you represent,
Speaker 2: You're such a good dude. And he was like, I
Speaker 2: could let you have the platform.
Speaker 3: To do that.
Speaker 1: Now I'm coming off Sports Nation, which was which was
Speaker 1: great shot Michelle Beadle.
Speaker 2: Shout out Michelle Beatle, Max Kellerman, Christ Thompson. There's a
Speaker 2: great show man, Kerry Champion, LZ Grandison. And that was
Speaker 2: part of the point. I could name too many damn
Speaker 2: co hosts. So here I go again. I'm going this way.
Speaker 2: I'm going this way. I got so many teammates, couldn't
Speaker 2: build up like brand chemistry. But I loved it all.
Speaker 2: I loved the experience. And you know, our show was
Speaker 2: light hearted.
Speaker 1: Praying it out. It great. It was a great show.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so we had a ball. But then he
Speaker 2: started talking to me about this. I was like, it'd
Speaker 2: be probably good right now to change it up, so
Speaker 2: I'll go over And loved my experience over there to
Speaker 2: the fullest.
Speaker 1: Only two things that really.
Speaker 2: Change maybe three things that changed my whole complexion of
Speaker 2: how that experience was going was one the pandemic when
Speaker 2: the pandemic hit. You know, everybody got in they feelings,
Speaker 2: everybody starts separat separating, getting polarized.
Speaker 1: And even more than before, more than before.
Speaker 2: Right, So I'm like, damn, I'm just trying to take
Speaker 2: care of the kids, make sure they ain't on the iPod.
Speaker 2: And I passed twenty five hours a day, you know,
Speaker 2: way too much. And that was part one. Part two
Speaker 2: was Whitlock left, you know, kind of in the middle
Speaker 2: of the night, even though I had heads up, I
Speaker 2: knew people that knew his situation a little disturbed.
Speaker 1: He didn't tell me straight up because then if he
Speaker 1: convinced you to come over right, right.
Speaker 2: So if anything is percolating, you're supposed to let me know.
Speaker 2: Max Killerman did that with first take day one. He
Speaker 2: was like, hey, dog, what you think I'm thinking this.
Speaker 2: Let's talk through it. Not like I got the overall
Speaker 2: decision making it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's a courtesy and.
Speaker 2: I ain't get that with like I had to know
Speaker 2: it and then just had to see him every day.
Speaker 2: Then finally he dipped and I was like, oh, that's
Speaker 2: that was real. The all good, But he left and
Speaker 2: that kind of left the imprint on me, like, all right,
Speaker 2: this thing ain't like the team you think this is,
Speaker 2: which I kind of knew already, but it got hit
Speaker 2: in the face again. And the last thing was my
Speaker 2: agent left. My agent was a superagent too. Still my
Speaker 2: homie still the man Nick Kahn who went to WWE.
Speaker 3: Now he runs WWE.
Speaker 2: And he basically told me on the way out, he
Speaker 2: was like, look, he had a ton of clients. He
Speaker 2: was like, look, man, every now and then, you got
Speaker 2: a swing for the fences. And he's like, I've been
Speaker 2: hitting a lot of bass hits, doubles, doubles inside the park.
Speaker 1: Home run right, right, right right, like he was killing it.
Speaker 2: No one thought he probably from the outside shit left,
Speaker 2: but now he's running WWE.
Speaker 1: A billion dollar company. Thank you that part.
Speaker 2: So you know, he was just like, you got a
Speaker 2: swing for the fences and that was a seed that
Speaker 2: was planet that didn't blossom until my contract was up.
Speaker 2: And I was like, damn, I'm just feeling all that.
Speaker 2: So long story short, working with Whitlock, it was great.
Speaker 2: It was the challenge was not us doing the show,
Speaker 2: it was people hear him and didn't hear me. So
Speaker 2: you know, we do a segment even though I'm challenging
Speaker 2: them or supporting them. They didn't hear me, they heard
Speaker 2: Whitlock because he got the spicier of the takes. I'm
Speaker 2: not a debater, I'm a discusser. I'll talk long, I'll
Speaker 2: talk strong.
Speaker 1: He's going to say the crazy highlight the stuff that
Speaker 1: gets clipped and puts on Twitter and.
Speaker 2: Write, and that was challenging because that's not who I am.
Speaker 2: I'm not based like that. I'm listening to all perspectives
Speaker 2: to grow a new perspective. And I just got a
Speaker 2: little fatigue to that. But I still was going to
Speaker 2: roll with it because I really cared about the show
Speaker 2: and I really liked what we were doing.
Speaker 1: Do you feel like at times like would you ever
Speaker 1: run into any issues when he would take a position
Speaker 1: on something, Oh yeah, a ton and you're on the
Speaker 1: show with them, so do you get associated with that
Speaker 1: or are they're like, yo, fam, what are you doing? Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: he was saying some of the Kaepernick shit. I don't
Speaker 1: know if that timeline lines up to speak for yourself,
Speaker 1: but just some of the things he was saying about
Speaker 1: cap and Ship where I was just like yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, it was just like a little like off putting.
Speaker 1: I guess to hear that on like you know, I again,
Speaker 1: even like you know, we talk about him leaving and
Speaker 1: doing his own thing, but hearing that on like ESPN
Speaker 1: or Fox at the time, right, it was kind of
Speaker 1: crazy some of the things he was saying.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, without particulars like Kaepernick was a
Speaker 2: hot button issue. I didn't mind that because you know,
Speaker 2: I don't even know how you say this properly, but
Speaker 2: I had my issues with Kaepernick as well.
Speaker 1: But no, I think I think I think as the
Speaker 1: way you say, well, I think as it kind of
Speaker 1: the cap thing, I think as it wavered and it
Speaker 1: felt like he really had real opportunities. I think that
Speaker 1: that Atlanta thing that happened where he had the workouts, yeah,
Speaker 1: and he wanted to do the workout his way. It
Speaker 1: was like, brother, they're giving you the yo.
Speaker 2: I mean, people have come up to me and literally said,
Speaker 2: can I talk to you for second? I'm sorry, I apologize.
Speaker 2: I don't even know these cats. I thought you were
Speaker 2: a sellout. I thought you were against us and all that,
Speaker 2: and I was like, dog, I don't even believe in all.
Speaker 3: That stuff you're talking about.
Speaker 2: I just tell you what I see from my perspective
Speaker 2: and my experiences on any situation. I knew Kaepernick before
Speaker 2: all that, I haven't talked to him since, but I
Speaker 2: saw the one eighty fine.
Speaker 3: You know, I ain't the first, I guess.
Speaker 1: For me, it was just like the demonization of someone
Speaker 1: just kneeling to bring attention to something. Obviously you get
Speaker 1: into three or four years later down the road, the
Speaker 1: lawsued like he cashed out, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: and then he still had an opportunity to.
Speaker 2: See that's the point though. This is the funny. I
Speaker 2: always tell people I am not a hater. I just
Speaker 2: tell the truth too early. And I said it way
Speaker 2: like day one. I'm like, I could read this like
Speaker 2: it's like if you take me to a workout and
Speaker 2: show me some defensive ends, I need three reps. I
Speaker 2: could tell you who this and who down here that fast.
Speaker 2: So I read the situation accurately from that moment. Doesn't
Speaker 2: mean he's not doing work. But you said it best.
Speaker 2: He brought attention, but I don't think the attention was
Speaker 2: going where everyone thought it was going. A lot of
Speaker 2: it was coming back to be self serving. But he's
Speaker 2: still doing the work. I ain't even mad at him,
Speaker 2: but I was just like, Yo, this ain't gonna go
Speaker 2: like y'all think it's going the way. And the first
Speaker 2: play he could have had was challenged the NFL, not
Speaker 2: be adversarial, but challenge the NFL to do exactly.
Speaker 3: What he wanted. But what did he want?
Speaker 1: He didn't know. That's why he didn't do any Q
Speaker 1: and as he didn't go out there, he didn't do
Speaker 1: a lot of interviews. They do any podcasts mean a lot?
Speaker 1: You mean none? None. It was also took that money
Speaker 1: and didn't say any I mean, I mean, we don't
Speaker 1: know how much it was, right, no, but I'm sure
Speaker 1: the condition of him getting that money was everything is Yeah, if.
Speaker 2: You're the NFL, of course you're gonna make him sign
Speaker 2: the NBA. Of course you're gonna say you can't go
Speaker 2: out there and damage our brand.
Speaker 1: But he act like you want to play every single
Speaker 1: year that was and that's what you said. It's like
Speaker 1: if you really really really wanted to still play. I
Speaker 1: feel like that that Atlanta thing, the way he moved
Speaker 1: the workout last month purpose, I was just like, people
Speaker 1: act like this. At that point, I was like, guys, okay,
Speaker 1: we got it.
Speaker 2: Like you a couple of years after me when I
Speaker 2: was like, guys.
Speaker 1: Yeah know I was. I was for sure because it
Speaker 1: took me a while. But when that happened, I was like,
Speaker 1: this is this, ain't it? What's going on? Oh?
Speaker 3: Well, you know what's going on?
Speaker 2: And it's just funny because I know too many guys
Speaker 2: that would die for a workout, Like I know dudes
Speaker 2: that are beast ballers. Give me a workout, dog, that's
Speaker 2: rap is on. And this guy had multiple chances and
Speaker 2: opportunities and a workout and a settlement and y'all trying
Speaker 2: to act like they trying to keep him down. Maybe
Speaker 2: you don't want to get up. That's how all I
Speaker 2: looked at it, and it wasn't that deep for me.
Speaker 2: People act like he was the lord and savior. I'm like,
Speaker 2: no government, nobody out here is saving you from your
Speaker 2: world because if it works or it doesn't work, you
Speaker 2: still got to do the work. And so I'm like,
Speaker 2: why did everyone get so wrapped up in that? It
Speaker 2: was kind of crazy? But to your point, Whitlock and
Speaker 2: I agreed, like this ain't it. But he agreed in
Speaker 2: a way where people are like damn dogs, Yeah right, right, right,
Speaker 2: but I did part two.
Speaker 1: Yo, it's crazy. So obviously we just saw everybody getle
Speaker 1: go at Espnos. I mean, and they've had a lot
Speaker 1: of cuts before. Steven they did a good job of
Speaker 1: putting that out on his show, like where were you
Speaker 1: in this year and all these people got fired and
Speaker 1: then this year all these people got fired. But again
Speaker 1: your boy Max got let go, who is one of
Speaker 1: my favorites, especially when it comes to boxing. I love
Speaker 1: when he is working the fights, you know, for people
Speaker 1: who don't know Max Calluman used to be a rapper. Seriously, yeah,
Speaker 1: but have you spoken with Max? How's he doing? And
Speaker 1: like for you to you know, I mean obviously as
Speaker 1: somebody who's kind of doing your own thing now to
Speaker 1: witness a line of cuts like that happening, I mean
Speaker 1: we're talking about Jeff van Gundy, I know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, those two, those are the first two that caught
Speaker 2: me off guard. Max and No No, I think the
Speaker 2: Max thing we kind of saw coming.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, Jeff van Gundy. I was like, damn.
Speaker 2: But then one all right, so Jeff van Gundy, that
Speaker 2: one caught me the most off guard.
Speaker 1: But then my second mind kicked in.
Speaker 2: He was like, hey, bro, he'd be going in on
Speaker 2: the NBA with partner of ESPN. I can understand that.
Speaker 2: Did you dive a little deeper? You realize maybe there
Speaker 2: was a little uh maybe during coffee and tea and
Speaker 2: can you let him go or else it's gonna be
Speaker 2: tougher in our next negotiation.
Speaker 1: Maybe that Jayalen Rose caught me off guard.
Speaker 2: But then I was like, yeah, him and Max kind
Speaker 2: of in the same boat. They start chipping away at
Speaker 2: what your what your products are your entities? So no
Speaker 2: more him, Jalen and Jacoby.
Speaker 1: Then this happened right because the Jacoby Jalen show got
Speaker 1: cut first.
Speaker 2: He got cut first. Max no first take. For a while,
Speaker 2: this just in, which felt like a filler show. All right,
Speaker 2: you're not here, here you go. But how I don't
Speaker 2: think Max leaves our show, leaves LA to do this
Speaker 2: just in and people don't think like this, But you
Speaker 2: get that in consolation.
Speaker 1: But this is why I left ESPN and left Sports Nation.
Speaker 1: It's one thing to.
Speaker 2: Be getting paid and Max was getting paid, but he
Speaker 2: got paid to do first tape and now here they
Speaker 2: go what they plan.
Speaker 1: B Like, Okay, you don't Steve Steven, they don't want
Speaker 1: you on first take anymore. We got this for you, right.
Speaker 2: But that ain't for you. That's just something to kind
Speaker 2: of fill the time.
Speaker 1: It's something fast to justify us paying you.
Speaker 2: Exactly, And so there's a huge difference between them paying
Speaker 2: you and them supporting you.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: I felt that Sports Nation with all the rotating hosts
Speaker 2: and co hosts, and I was like, they paying me,
Speaker 2: but they I don't see foresight.
Speaker 3: I don't see runway.
Speaker 2: I don't see where they're all invested in the next
Speaker 2: five years of the show. And it was tough to
Speaker 2: call her bluff because every time you say that, they're like, oh,
Speaker 2: of course we are.
Speaker 1: Of course you are.
Speaker 2: And then I said, all right, I'm gonna leave, and
Speaker 2: as soon as I left, they canceled that show, proving
Speaker 2: my point. I was on thin ice. The show was
Speaker 2: on thin ice.
Speaker 1: One day, they'll just wake up and be like a
Speaker 1: Sports Nation. It was novel back then ten years ago.
Speaker 2: Now everyone has a touch screen, everyone interacts with the
Speaker 2: fans and social media. So I was like, I got
Speaker 2: ahead of that one. I felt the same for Max.
Speaker 2: I was thinking like, damn, this ain't gonna last. This
Speaker 2: just then, even though it wasn't a bad show. It
Speaker 2: just wasn't a show. He would have left LA and
Speaker 2: he's going to do bad right, So saw that coming man,
Speaker 2: And you know he has a little time on he
Speaker 2: has time to work with in terms of still getting
Speaker 2: paid by ESPN develop what's next. He's certainly in the
Speaker 2: running for undisputed, depending on how they really do that.
Speaker 2: But they're talking about their rotating partnership.
Speaker 1: What they're doing in ESPAN. They might do at FS one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they which they actually got from Skips.
Speaker 3: So I want to clarify everybody think Stephen, they started this.
Speaker 1: Now back in the day, That's what Skip used to do.
Speaker 3: That's what Skip used to do on court.
Speaker 1: We don't remember that. Cold Pizza was always like Woody
Speaker 1: Page or Steven A or the Stu Twins.
Speaker 3: I remember them.
Speaker 1: I know you're talking about God, I forget it. Monie
Speaker 1: Jones was on a lot of people.
Speaker 3: Would you come on there?
Speaker 2: Yes, So it was a thing before Steve and A
Speaker 2: revamped it and now Skip may go back to it.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this, do you feel like the
Speaker 1: way because I feel like the Pat McAfee thing happening,
Speaker 1: and then all of this these cuts happening, and Steven
Speaker 1: A starting his own show. I feel like none of
Speaker 1: these are coincidential.
Speaker 3: Oh no, it's not right.
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, well, they had to pay this guy,
Speaker 1: however much they had to pay him for him to
Speaker 1: walk away from that. Fanuel Deal would shout out to
Speaker 1: him for being comfortable enough to do that. But then
Speaker 1: at the same time, you got, oh, look, steven A
Speaker 1: launches his own thing like you too, Like, do you
Speaker 1: feel like Pat McAfee in the same way that Skip
Speaker 1: and steven A kind of changed what moves the needle
Speaker 1: in traditional TV ratings on sports networks with debate by
Speaker 1: the way, PTI was the first to kind of do that.
Speaker 1: But do you feel like Pat McAfee's changing the sports
Speaker 1: broadcasting industry?
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's the one that shows the proof of concept
Speaker 2: the best in sports. You know, you combine that with
Speaker 2: the Paul Brothers, you combine that with Joe Rose. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: he starts getting crazy, but sports or it's McAfee, And
Speaker 2: the beautiful thing is I keep going back to it.
Speaker 2: He ain't even raised his hand to do it, but
Speaker 2: you know what he was doing. He didn't know it.
Speaker 2: He was falling into alignment where the.
Speaker 1: Industry had to go So let's go way.
Speaker 2: Back to like ninety eight ninety nine when Bill Gates
Speaker 2: first said content is king, and everyone's heard that, but
Speaker 2: we didn't really understand it because we didn't have the
Speaker 2: proper mediums and the proper conduits to do that. So
Speaker 2: content is king before social media is really big?
Speaker 1: Meant what I.
Speaker 2: Stay in the studio longer, my show is longer. What's
Speaker 2: content is king? But what he really meant then? And
Speaker 2: I was just at a speaking in the Silicon Valley
Speaker 2: about this where all the tech guru CEOs are talking
Speaker 2: vcs now that this world, especially sports media, is going
Speaker 2: to change and morph into everyone is a creator and
Speaker 2: everyone is a channel. Now some people are already pushing back,
Speaker 2: probably thinking I ain't a channel, I'm not a creator.
Speaker 2: Everybody is. If you got an Instagram, Oh no, let's
Speaker 2: go old school Facebook, you like old.
Speaker 1: Gerrant content creator? Technically, yes, if someone is following you,
Speaker 1: that's giving you attention. If you post something, someone's giving
Speaker 1: that some sort of attention. You might get two likes.
Speaker 1: There you go, that is content. You may get two likes.
Speaker 2: But if you talk about interaction engagement, did someone slow
Speaker 2: down on it right there? Because that's what they look
Speaker 2: on the back end. Sure, they're trying to measure.
Speaker 1: Those metrics, and they're like, oh that was interesting.
Speaker 2: Okay, now we're going to change your feet in the
Speaker 2: algorithm for that point being you are a creator on
Speaker 2: the grandest scale that is Pat McAfee. He just started
Speaker 2: to plug a way doing a three hour show every
Speaker 2: single day and falling into alignment where everything had to go.
Speaker 3: So now everything is going on.
Speaker 1: And very unedited, very unhinged when it came to the
Speaker 1: language he's using, and it was like, oh, this guy
Speaker 1: hasn't worked for nobody, so he could say whatever the
Speaker 1: fuck he was he wants, and it was sick.
Speaker 2: And I mean, you know, I'm watching one of my
Speaker 2: contemporaries doing the same thing, broadcasting played ball like I did,
Speaker 2: and then I'm watching him in a tank top curse
Speaker 2: about the same topic that I'm over here, hello in
Speaker 2: a soup looking on premer prophet.
Speaker 1: It's like, who's the fans gonna want to see? They
Speaker 1: want to see the uncut version of that?
Speaker 2: Or right, I wanted to see that, So I'm like,
Speaker 2: you know, getting off the studio desks.
Speaker 1: Everyone is bowing down to me.
Speaker 2: Oh, look, Mars's on no TVV linear cable respect which
Speaker 2: it is.
Speaker 1: Of course, of course it's a different animal. If it wasn't,
Speaker 1: Pat McAfee wouldn't be on ESPN if it didn't matter.
Speaker 1: Because it does still matter because he took the He's
Speaker 1: a lot of people think he walked away from you know,
Speaker 1: maybe a little bit more money.
Speaker 3: No, they got that wrong too.
Speaker 2: Let me tell you all right, So let's just say
Speaker 2: the Fan duel deal is one twenty. If it's one twenty,
Speaker 2: that's what they reported. And then he gets eighty five
Speaker 2: from ESPN. Everybody already initially kind of ran with it
Speaker 2: the wrong way. One twenty from FANDU is hear Pat?
Speaker 2: Do everything else with it?
Speaker 1: Pay every pay your staff, pay yeah, pay the whole
Speaker 1: crew whatever, bax Man Jones, everybody, all of them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and run that operation and you deal with all
Speaker 2: that tax attorneys and all that. Or I give you
Speaker 2: eighty five and then we pay your crew, and then
Speaker 2: I go, AJ, come here, you come in here next.
Speaker 2: Nobody talking about his deal. AJA, here's your five year
Speaker 2: twenty five, whatever it may be. So everybody starts getting that,
Speaker 2: it grows greater than the one twenty he got from
Speaker 2: Fan duel and everybody secure. Everyone gets their health insurance
Speaker 2: through somebody. It ain't on Pat McAfee's diamond, et cetera.
Speaker 2: All these crews benefits, like it's saying, so he took
Speaker 2: a better deal on top of a grander platform.
Speaker 1: And he's gonna be able to do so much like
Speaker 1: if he just hosted the SPS, you know, like they
Speaker 1: threw him in last minute, last minute, and he killed it.
Speaker 1: He killed it.
Speaker 2: That's that's the thing, Like he still gets to do
Speaker 2: what he's doing, but he also gets that turbo boost
Speaker 2: at Nitrius from ESP.
Speaker 1: By the way, shout out to a j Hawk for
Speaker 1: never having to leave his house and and and just
Speaker 1: they somehow did such a good job. Because you know,
Speaker 1: I'm so against zoom content, like when we do interviews
Speaker 1: and stuff for the most part of somebody.
Speaker 3: I noticed that when we were setting it up, like.
Speaker 1: Bro, if someone look like if if Drake was like,
Speaker 1: we have to do I'm just I mean, like you're
Speaker 1: what you're but you're in town, you know, Like I
Speaker 1: think we've maybe done two or three Zoom interviews in
Speaker 1: the last three years. I think one of them was, uh,
Speaker 1: tyres you let Tyrese off the he from lad that
Speaker 1: we did that more for the radio.
Speaker 2: Ray got a spot in l A two. So who
Speaker 2: are you letting off the hook? These cats live in
Speaker 2: l A Dog TLC. It's hard to get all three
Speaker 2: of them to guarantee too.
Speaker 1: Left, I passed away t bos and Chili. Uh but yeah,
Speaker 1: it wasn't What was the other one? Oh? Yeah, and
Speaker 1: then I but for my ship. I think that's the
Speaker 1: only two. Oh and then Goodie Mob. They were in
Speaker 1: Atlanta and it was middle of the pandemic. Okay, so
Speaker 1: this was like early pandemic. They don't dance no more.
Speaker 2: Okay, I give you some of that, but but but
Speaker 2: they've done a good job of figuring out a way
Speaker 2: to make the remote thing work.
Speaker 1: Does that everybody do? Nobody even notices anymore? Yes, because
Speaker 1: in the hip hop's face people notice. Really. Yeah, like
Speaker 1: when you're not doing like an in person interview in
Speaker 1: the music space, people notice. That's a great point. Sports
Speaker 1: were so used to seeing everybody Mike will Buns in Arizona, Y.
Speaker 1: It's a condition. Cornheiser's in d C.
Speaker 2: And yeah, so like you know, just kind of finish
Speaker 2: your point and finish what we were talking about. Everyone's
Speaker 2: gonna become a creator. You already are, but it's gonna
Speaker 2: become like you're gonna into it and really realize that's
Speaker 2: who you are. Even if you're an old lady just
Speaker 2: sitting there showing pictures of your grandkids, you're a creator.
Speaker 2: What comes from that is now you're going to all
Speaker 2: understand you have to license that out. And what ESPN
Speaker 2: just bought into was the first licensing of a creator.
Speaker 2: So they now it's a proof of concept on YouTube.
Speaker 2: Second most googled which Google owns YouTube, but second most
Speaker 2: used search engine is YouTube behind Google, which both YouTube. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so what they are doing is they're like, ah, we're
Speaker 2: creating what it has to be.
Speaker 1: Created, which are creators? Now?
Speaker 2: Traditional media, whether that's Lindear or a cable or traditional
Speaker 2: media has to now buy into all of us because
Speaker 2: we are where the people are. So reason I took
Speaker 2: off my suit ultimately is I was making one point
Speaker 2: nine million dollars. I hate this world. We can't tell
Speaker 2: kids and people how much you make it. Like in football,
Speaker 2: everybody know how much you make, right everybody?
Speaker 1: Everybody? You know, every little detail, every little claw, yeah
Speaker 1: point zero. You know if you make the pro Bowl
Speaker 1: this year. That's an extra five hundred k. Or Kyler
Speaker 1: Murray has to study.
Speaker 2: Right then I get into that was funny these thin
Speaker 2: like these these like fragile egos or fragile industry of.
Speaker 1: Why And we saw a lot of these salaries of
Speaker 1: the guys who just got fired, and you were like, God, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm like whyle we hoigh. Guys like Keyshawn Johnson was
Speaker 1: eating not not was he signed a five year deal
Speaker 1: and only did one year of it. He's getting paid
Speaker 1: for the next four years. When I saw the Keyshawn
Speaker 1: Johnson number, and listen, the morning show was decent, it
Speaker 1: wasn't great. Kishan is a decent like like obviously a
Speaker 1: legendary player. He's done a great job. Dog dog Yeah, listen,
Speaker 1: la legend, sc legend.
Speaker 3: Oh here come my butt.
Speaker 1: When I saw that number, I was like, oh.
Speaker 3: You forgot Sean always hit him over.
Speaker 1: The Temple Bay his agent. I think he's his own agent,
Speaker 1: whoever agency is negotiating his ship. I said, oh, man,
Speaker 1: good for him.
Speaker 2: But you know the real of that is he got
Speaker 2: that deal. God, let me let me untangle this for y'all.
Speaker 2: So Max is making that big first take money then
Speaker 2: they're like, all right, Stephen, they and him ain't gonna
Speaker 2: mix water and oil.
Speaker 1: They ended up putting Max on with Kishan, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that morning show. Yeah, so this is how it is.
Speaker 1: Keith Shan was already there. They got rid of this
Speaker 1: Oban guy, right, he got sick and then they just
Speaker 1: left something like that.
Speaker 2: So then Max comes in, but Max making first take money.
Speaker 1: That's the most expensive morning show ever, right for a
Speaker 1: radio show, right at all time.
Speaker 2: So then Keishaw sitting there like he came to my hood.
Speaker 2: This is my show whose name is first Kishank. So
Speaker 2: he used at his leverage. That's how he got that dough.
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Speaker 1: you were making you were making one point nine.
Speaker 2: I was making one point nine, which is you know,
Speaker 2: I mean like I'm in a minus territory.
Speaker 1: Most that's great though most used to don't make that.
Speaker 1: And you were were you being Were you in LA
Speaker 1: or you were going to Connecticut? La all la? Which
Speaker 1: was great. It was a great fit for my life.
Speaker 1: It's just I'm plaateaud. First of all, I'm the realist.
Speaker 1: It's just like being an athlete. I knew when I
Speaker 1: was sorry.
Speaker 2: Now everyone else will say it before me, but I
Speaker 2: acknowledge it when y'all saying it too.
Speaker 1: When an athlete's coming down the hill, he knows.
Speaker 3: It, he just ain't gonna admit it.
Speaker 1: He won't admit it. Everyone else is gonna say it.
Speaker 2: So I knew I was Plateau because the three big
Speaker 2: dogs in my industry, I never could be like them,
Speaker 2: and that's a positive for them and just a difference
Speaker 2: from me, Stephen A. Skip and Colin. So this is
Speaker 2: how I look at life. Man, it's the science of life.
Speaker 2: I'm like, all right, all three of them didn't play
Speaker 2: at the highest level, so there's a different level of
Speaker 2: communication and investment. Right then, I'm like, all right, they
Speaker 2: all go places I wouldn't go because I'm not trying
Speaker 2: to be condensed into that great headline that's spicy.
Speaker 1: I don't go in on the case. You'll notice a
Speaker 1: lot less of the crueler takes coming from actual people
Speaker 1: who played right exactly.
Speaker 2: So I was like, damn, I'm not a hot take
Speaker 2: artist and people think that's with a negative connotation. I'm like, no,
Speaker 2: that's just a brand. We're all in the circuits, just
Speaker 2: different tents. My tent is not that So I was like,
Speaker 2: so how much can I make it my tent and
Speaker 2: now I'll start looking around. I was like, I think
Speaker 2: you making the most in this tent, bro. So I
Speaker 2: was like, do you bet again? My next negotiation was
Speaker 2: gonna be a haircut, using the pandemic and.
Speaker 3: All this stuff. So I was like, then I'm looking
Speaker 3: at my neighbors.
Speaker 2: I'm like, these suckers are going downstairs and these content
Speaker 2: houses destroying life and moving in next to me. So
Speaker 2: I was like, all right, we talked through the negotiation.
Speaker 2: Basically I started my own show downstairs in my house.
Speaker 3: I'm just going downstairs.
Speaker 1: It was your decision to leave FS one. So yeah,
Speaker 1: all that's on your own terms. Both times, well if
Speaker 1: they're paying me ten millions what I'm saying, but both
Speaker 1: but both times leaving ESPN and FS one, you left
Speaker 1: on your own. Oh yeah, like there, well there are
Speaker 1: other opportunity it shows for me to go there. Yeah. No,
Speaker 1: but you you were like, hey, I'm gonna move on
Speaker 1: f S one because I have a place where maybe
Speaker 1: I can showcase why I am more. Yeah. And then
Speaker 1: once the FS one thing ran.
Speaker 2: Its course, yeah, free agency, Like you got other offers?
Speaker 2: Are they better offers here? So my mind at leaving
Speaker 2: that FS one was this. There was three levels of
Speaker 2: me landing the plane. The first one was we not
Speaker 2: doing Speak for Yourself anymore because Whitlock's not here, who
Speaker 2: designed that whole show.
Speaker 3: He was there from there.
Speaker 1: You're there when it became you weren't there when it
Speaker 1: became speak.
Speaker 2: No, That's when I was out because they were telling
Speaker 2: me about that right, and I was like, damn, I'm
Speaker 2: going backwards in life. No slight to them, because I
Speaker 2: already did s Forced Nation and I was like, I've
Speaker 2: already done the four person panel all that. You've been there,
Speaker 2: done that, and they're done that. At the top layer,
Speaker 2: we're gonna talk about cowboys, We're.
Speaker 1: Gonna talk to lakers. I've done that.
Speaker 2: And I was like, damn, I got so many more
Speaker 2: muscles to flex that I won't get the flex in
Speaker 2: that format on this show.
Speaker 1: But they paying you so much, They paying you to
Speaker 1: be in.
Speaker 2: That velvet coffee, like, just just die slowly with us,
Speaker 2: shut up, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: And so I was like, damn.
Speaker 2: Level two was the fact that the offer wasn't going
Speaker 2: to be as grand as my imagination of being out here,
Speaker 2: being on YouTube, letting brands plug into me. Sponsors, plugging
Speaker 2: to me, going direct to consumer, and number three was frankly,
Speaker 2: we start talking about other shows, building the show out
Speaker 2: in my home, which we started First Things First, which
Speaker 2: I love, but it's in New York. It was conversations
Speaker 2: of it coming to LA. It didn't happen. Then I
Speaker 2: was like, now I'm going I'm chasing money because the
Speaker 2: only reason I'm gonna do this is because they're paying me.
Speaker 2: I would never want to be in New York away
Speaker 2: from my kids. I would never want to go over
Speaker 2: here and be away from my kids and just travel
Speaker 2: through the circuit.
Speaker 3: I've done that, but I don't want.
Speaker 1: To do that.
Speaker 2: And then, you know, using my network and knowing what
Speaker 2: I know and wanted to lean into my foundation, I said,
Speaker 2: you know what, just do your own thing. Regained the man. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it will come. And then let's wrong and.
Speaker 1: The YouTube is doing well it is.
Speaker 3: And you guys, I mean almost six months.
Speaker 1: Do you have somebody handling your brand partnerships and your
Speaker 1: sponsorships or do you do a lot of that yourself?
Speaker 2: Are you Yeah, someone's handling it, But I mean I'm
Speaker 2: always c seed.
Speaker 3: I'm always chiming in.
Speaker 1: You know, only I know my own secret sauce. Did
Speaker 1: they get your blue choo yet? The blue choo? Are
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Speaker 1: about the Cowboys and Lakers? Yeah? Yeah, is it ever?
Speaker 1: I mean, listen, you are a unicorn in the sense
Speaker 1: that you are one of the very few people who
Speaker 1: I know from Los Angeles who chose the Clippers. And
Speaker 1: kudos to you for that because it's an original thought.
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. But original team too. We ain't from Minnesota.
Speaker 1: When you guys are getting fed every you know, like
Speaker 1: you said, there's the Lakers, there's the Cowboys. No matter
Speaker 1: how irrelevant or relevant they may or may not be,
Speaker 1: it seems like they're always top of the news cycle.
Speaker 1: Right for you being like somebody who's like, guys, like,
Speaker 1: is it ever like the fatiguing where you're like, how
Speaker 1: many different ways. Can we talk about Dak Prescott being mediocre?
Speaker 2: I think you need to ask it the other way.
Speaker 2: Whether ever times I was excited, I was always fatigued
Speaker 2: to that because what we were doing was chasing where
Speaker 2: we thought the audience was. And look, let's be real.
Speaker 2: You talk about the Cowboys and Yankees, Lakers. You can
Speaker 2: say what you want. People do respond to that, but
Speaker 2: you got to remember, like TV ratings are archaic.
Speaker 1: Compared very archaic the way they work, Yes, the same
Speaker 1: way radio is very arcade.
Speaker 3: So you get it.
Speaker 2: So the whole point is it's like, man, all right,
Speaker 2: we're using this to guide us, but ask compass.
Speaker 1: But it's flawed.
Speaker 3: It's flawed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So we literally are comparing ourselves to those who
Speaker 2: are independent creators who have comments, who actually.
Speaker 1: Oh you can actually see the views.
Speaker 3: You can see the views.
Speaker 1: This it's a hunch because you got this system that Yeah, it's.
Speaker 2: Crazy, right, bar is a backdrop at the bar. Oh
Speaker 2: that's a rating, yeah, but they ain't watching you.
Speaker 1: That's like when people say radio ratings count. When someone
Speaker 1: gets in an uber and someone's playing something all with it,
Speaker 1: you're listening to the station. Technically, it's like, oh, am
Speaker 1: I like, yes, just because.
Speaker 3: It's on like the engagement.
Speaker 2: So I mean it's fatiguing beyond, especially because I'm wired
Speaker 2: differently than most people in this business, because I've always
Speaker 2: just been a guy who's intellectually curious.
Speaker 1: And I mean I put the actions behind that.
Speaker 2: I went to Columbia them near in people's eyes and
Speaker 2: perception threw away my football.
Speaker 1: Career to go to a Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm a whole different animal. That doesn't mean
Speaker 2: I'm smarter. It just means I'm bet a little different
Speaker 2: than you. And so when we keep going over this
Speaker 2: same topic, I'm bored as hell because I'm like.
Speaker 1: Br how many times do we talk about this this month?
Speaker 2: And I would say that on air, which gave me
Speaker 2: a lame but also like, dog, you're not this our
Speaker 2: business model, bro, like you over here fighting what we do?
Speaker 1: What was the like, what's something that comes to mind?
Speaker 1: The one storyline or story or topic that maybe over
Speaker 1: a month's time or three months time or you were
Speaker 1: just like enough, this is crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's always talking about Dak that top five? Now
Speaker 2: is Dak top ten? It's Dak good enough to win
Speaker 2: the super Bowl? It is that good enough to make
Speaker 2: an NFC Championship game, Dak's contract justified.
Speaker 1: Like, I'm like, god, dog, how many different times we
Speaker 1: talk about this one guy who's never won a Super
Speaker 1: Bowl or an MVP.
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, everybody else passing them up if you want to
Speaker 2: say it in terms of their team is doing better, right,
Speaker 2: they're winning ships.
Speaker 3: We put them at the bottom of the show.
Speaker 1: It's almost like, and listen, Tony Romo to me was
Speaker 1: much better than Dak Prescott. But it's kind of with
Speaker 1: Tony Romo back in the day. It's like they wouldn't
Speaker 1: stop talking about Tony Romo, and it's like, yeah, the
Speaker 1: number one of all though, was that t Bow fat?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, people don't remember that. That was insane.
Speaker 1: I remember, Oh, I remember it vividly and I had
Speaker 1: to work through a lot of that all day every
Speaker 1: day Tim Tebow talk. Yeah, and Tebow won one playoff.
Speaker 4: Game, uh against the Steelers, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's
Speaker 4: true underdog and I love him as a human, but God,
Speaker 4: if you're talking about sports, was that the guy that
Speaker 4: put that much on?
Speaker 3: And I think they came back a little bit.
Speaker 1: Remember when he was on the Jaguars for the practice squad.
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh no, he's fack. I thought we
Speaker 1: got rid of him. Any wanted to play baseball?
Speaker 2: Yeah, now I love chasing Tim Tebow to human, but
Speaker 2: the great guy player, great guy. They were doing way
Speaker 2: too much so that one all of that Dak talk
Speaker 2: just to me.
Speaker 1: As soon I see it, I like to throw up
Speaker 1: in my mouth a little bit, Like, come on, bro,
Speaker 1: how much of sports media is like, because because you
Speaker 1: will always see like unspoken beafs with people like I've
Speaker 1: seen I've seen Michelle Beatles say stuff about Rachel Nichols
Speaker 1: and obviously there's like this, yeah I think it was
Speaker 1: on a podcast or something.
Speaker 2: Okay, Mama, as I call her, Mama, Mama bees don't play.
Speaker 1: She don't give a damn goddamn Spurs fan too, god bless. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but how much of it is like, is there like
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff that we don't get to see
Speaker 1: where people really just don't fuck with each other but
Speaker 1: they have to be on TVA with each other. Oh? Absolutely,
Speaker 1: because we've seen so much of that recently where like
Speaker 1: skipping Shannon had big, big blowouts, or Perk and JJ
Speaker 1: Reddick or you know, there's been all these things where
Speaker 1: you're like ooh. It gets a lot of eyes and
Speaker 1: it feels a lot more authentic than a lot of
Speaker 1: stuff we've seen. But it does seem like there's a
Speaker 1: lot of unspoken tension in the industry.
Speaker 2: That's part of the disruption, that's part of what's leading
Speaker 2: us in the ground Swell to go to more independence
Speaker 2: because both of those scenarios has an independent creator. Content
Speaker 2: creator kind of mixed up in there. So you got
Speaker 2: skipping Shannon all right. They've been doing this show for
Speaker 2: seven years while y'all beefing down in part because Club
Speaker 2: Sha Shae independent creation, which gave him.
Speaker 1: The different lane of popularity.
Speaker 2: Whether you say it's to the same level or surpassing Skip,
Speaker 2: that's something Skip can't compete with. Skip has his own
Speaker 2: podcast No one watches. I can't say no one could
Speaker 2: have got more subscribers than me. But he's been around
Speaker 2: way longer than me. I'm gonna catch him real quick,
Speaker 2: real quick.
Speaker 1: And if you have great numbers for six months.
Speaker 2: Dude is going and I'm loving it. So there's a
Speaker 2: there's a Club Shay shape. There's also a Kwame Brown
Speaker 2: element of like stirring it up.
Speaker 1: He's a wild boy that Kwame brown Man.
Speaker 2: Funny, hilarious, will stare look at you and stir it
Speaker 2: up and then say, now what you're gonna do?
Speaker 3: I'm on my tractor and good luck.
Speaker 2: So anyway, I'm just trying to give people the dynamics
Speaker 2: of why these things are shifting.
Speaker 3: Same thing.
Speaker 2: When you talk about a situation where there's a stephen
Speaker 2: A and then there's a Max kellen Man, and you
Speaker 2: see that's the situation.
Speaker 3: You're like, what's going on?
Speaker 2: Well, because the Internet has such a loud voice, so
Speaker 2: when you're trying to protect your brand, you're almost in
Speaker 2: a reality show. Now, people got it twisted. Doing the
Speaker 2: reality show ain't hard. It's when it's edited, and it's
Speaker 2: when the world gets to see it and respond and
Speaker 2: talk about you. That's when it gets hard. So skip
Speaker 2: Shannon stephen A, Max, Ah, we fine. Doing this is
Speaker 2: just when we go home and check it.
Speaker 1: Oh this night. Subconsciously, shit gets to you sometimes I'm sure, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm sell out.
Speaker 3: Oh I'm dumb. Oh he cooler to me, like you
Speaker 3: know what I mean?
Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden you start to weave
Speaker 2: and do things a little differently.
Speaker 1: What's your prediction for Shannon Sharp.
Speaker 3: It's gonna be wrong. Let me say that.
Speaker 1: Uh before you answer, I think if I'm him, what
Speaker 1: I hope, Well, let me tell you what I hope.
Speaker 1: I hope he just goes all in on himself. Okay,
Speaker 1: what does that mean? Though? I think he takes Club
Speaker 1: Shad Shade to a daily he obviously does the but
Speaker 1: I think if he did if he did a daily
Speaker 1: show on his own channel and he did that for
Speaker 1: a year, two years and built up leverage, whatever bag
Speaker 1: he's about to get would be way bigger because he's
Speaker 1: got all the attention and all the eyes on him.
Speaker 1: Right now, That's what I would do. What do you
Speaker 1: think is gonna happen? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Like if I could, and I think the magic wand
Speaker 2: would be exactly what McAfee did. Like he literally would
Speaker 2: turn Shay she into it daily and he couldn let
Speaker 2: it be on ESPN because there were talks of Shade
Speaker 2: Shape being on Fox in the summer during the dot
Speaker 2: right right now, Yeah, you would let it live every
Speaker 2: single day, pour all the resources into it. Then you
Speaker 2: would have like also the commercial being on First Take
Speaker 2: or something, your ESPN Club Shay Shapes every day. Then
Speaker 2: I chime in here and there once a week with
Speaker 2: steven A because that's the biggest daily show they have. Well,
Speaker 2: you're gonna have number one daily show and maybe number
Speaker 2: two with Club Chase Shape or flip that order. Maybe yeah,
Speaker 2: you never know, while still keeping your independence because your
Speaker 2: license can get right.
Speaker 1: So it's basically what the McAfee model is. I don't
Speaker 1: you think he's gonna do though?
Speaker 2: Snap, you just don't see him going back to Fox.
Speaker 2: I see him doing the once a day, once a
Speaker 2: week would first take steven A.
Speaker 1: Maybe Mondays during the football season. Yep.
Speaker 2: I see him ramping up Club Sha Shape, but not
Speaker 2: daily on the YouTube and continue to leverage that. I
Speaker 2: see him leaning into his cognac and slanging that. And
Speaker 2: I also see him trying to build it up to
Speaker 2: a point where he's not in the space he is
Speaker 2: right now, which is once a week. He lateral move
Speaker 2: or promotion would be another you would.
Speaker 1: Think, like if you see the amount of money that
Speaker 1: Draft Kings gave Pat, if you're Sandal or Fandel rather
Speaker 1: sorry if you if you're Shannon Sharp, you gotta be like,
Speaker 1: I'm more popular. Maybe maybe maybe it's close, well not
Speaker 1: close in subscribers. No, no, no, no, no, not in subscriber.
Speaker 1: I just mean in terms of like star power. Right now,
Speaker 1: Shannon Shark, and everybody's talking about Shannon Sharks as they should.
Speaker 1: He's popping right now.
Speaker 2: Okay, my agent, my broadcasting podcast agent. I have two,
Speaker 2: but one of them was just working on a nine
Speaker 2: figure deal. Now I can't say who because he didn't
Speaker 2: tell me who, but I kind of narrowed the borders.
Speaker 2: I was like, and I know, I think one of
Speaker 2: them could be Shannon.
Speaker 3: The other I'm not gonna say it.
Speaker 2: I gotta protect the guilty because the guy doesn't want
Speaker 2: it out. It could be still Shannon or somebody else.
Speaker 2: But long story short, the money's out there though, nine figures,
Speaker 2: nine figures.
Speaker 3: So you know, that's the old McAfee fan dual kind
Speaker 3: of deal.
Speaker 1: So it could be Shannon.
Speaker 2: But the point is I don't see him having a
Speaker 2: daily show on ESPN unless this club chase shape. I
Speaker 2: would love to see that and then let him do
Speaker 2: first take once a week, call that a rap, leverage
Speaker 2: it for a couple of years, and then see what
Speaker 2: what's next?
Speaker 1: What's the next run to? Who was somebody who helped
Speaker 1: you the most in growing as a broadcaster? Over the years.
Speaker 1: Obviously transitioning from playing in the NFL for ten years
Speaker 1: coming to TV. Was there like a big homie of
Speaker 1: yours that like really kind of helped show you the ropes? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Day one, No, Lie, I left the football field, and
Speaker 2: I didn't know how big Mike and Mike was. I
Speaker 2: knew how big ESPN was, But when you're playing, I
Speaker 2: swear people think you're lying. I didn't watch any of
Speaker 2: them shows. I know they even had daily shows. I
Speaker 2: didn't know they had NFL Live.
Speaker 1: I think I believe you back then. I feel like
Speaker 1: nowadays it's hard, it's very hard to avoid it. But yeah,
Speaker 1: but back then, I get it. Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, I never heard of Mike and Mike. I never
Speaker 2: heard of NFL Live. It was just so random, right.
Speaker 2: I knew about NFL Prime Time, and I knew like
Speaker 2: watch Sports Center and Berman.
Speaker 1: To do right, Chris Berman and yeah Jackson right right right?
Speaker 1: I mean, what's man? I can't think Godlee, I'm bad.
Speaker 1: I can't think of this guy who played for the Broncos.
Speaker 2: Yes, gode y'all gonna kill me in them comments, do it?
Speaker 2: But yeah, those guys, And I was like, that was it.
Speaker 2: I made it if I made a high light on
Speaker 2: there right right. So I'm looking around, I'm like, all right,
Speaker 2: I'm at ESPN day one and they're like, all right,
Speaker 2: can you get up at like five in the morning,
Speaker 2: be in the studio five fifteen and want you on
Speaker 2: Mike and Mike. I was like, all right, radio show,
Speaker 2: And I was like, damn, I got the radio, Like
Speaker 2: I can't take this later or I'm like not even
Speaker 2: slighting them in my head. I'm like, I gotta do
Speaker 2: a but this is my opportunity. So I'm gonna do
Speaker 2: this show called Mike and Mike. And I get there
Speaker 2: in this Mike green Bird, Mike Golick. I just feel
Speaker 2: in for a segment, you know, do a little guest
Speaker 2: guest appearance.
Speaker 1: I'm out. And I was like I got at five
Speaker 1: o'clock just for one segment.
Speaker 2: And when I was done, I was like, I can
Speaker 2: see this is bigger than I thought.
Speaker 1: But how big?
Speaker 2: Got off air, checked my phone and it was lit
Speaker 2: up like I signed a new deal house I got dang.
Speaker 1: I was like Mike and Mike up there in every
Speaker 1: city everywhere. For ever many years, it was like the
Speaker 1: longest morning show. I mean, I just remember my whole
Speaker 1: life Mike, Mike was on. It feels like, so which
Speaker 1: Mike helped you out? The most golic golic.
Speaker 2: Now after that first segment, Yeah, he literally comes to
Speaker 2: me and he's like, dude, you're a storyteller. He's like,
Speaker 2: don't ever let somebody tell you any different. He's like,
Speaker 2: everyone can do this extras and those stuff, there's computers
Speaker 2: for that, etc. He's like, your stories, please, just stick
Speaker 2: to your stories. Don't script out your takes, don't be rigid,
Speaker 2: don't get on that railroad track.
Speaker 1: Just tell stories.
Speaker 2: Your experiences are insane, to the point where the next
Speaker 2: week they called me to come in. It was to
Speaker 2: fill in for Mike Greenberg who was going and I
Speaker 2: literally did a four hour show on Mike and Mike.
Speaker 1: Now my second week from being just.
Speaker 2: From being like one segment early in the morning crazy
Speaker 2: and I just ran with it. I never got boxed
Speaker 2: in to the purest version of broadcasting, which is extras
Speaker 2: and ols.
Speaker 3: Third and goal, what should they do?
Speaker 1: Oh? They should play?
Speaker 2: Actually I was like, dog, I'm talking about the girls,
Speaker 2: talk about the club, I'm about the player, talking about
Speaker 2: his life, on his emotions. I'm doing the ey's and ues,
Speaker 2: not the x's and o's, And I just kept going
Speaker 2: with that because I got that confidence from Goli when
Speaker 2: I first got there.
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Speaker 1: Talk to me about your playing career, because you've obviously
Speaker 1: played at a bunch of different places. Obviously, most notably you
Speaker 1: got drafted by Buffalo. You had a great room with
Speaker 1: the Chargers. What was your favorite city to play football
Speaker 1: in and what do you think was the best team
Speaker 1: you were ever On.
Speaker 2: My record, it had to be Buffalo those four years,
Speaker 2: even though we weren't making the Super Bowls like they
Speaker 2: were years before.
Speaker 1: Was this like Rob Johnson, Buffalo.
Speaker 2: Doug Flutie, Rob Johnson, Alex van Pelt that Buffalo Waye Phillips.
Speaker 2: Marv Levy was our coach. Yeah, it was crazy, man.
Speaker 2: I walk into a locker room.
Speaker 1: Wait were you? Were you on the field for the
Speaker 1: MotorCity Miracle, Music.
Speaker 2: City, Music City when you were there? I was there,
Speaker 2: but I wasn't was on the golf team.
Speaker 1: Yeah you were. You were on our special teams.
Speaker 2: That was a crazy wow talking about a lighte flashing
Speaker 2: before your eyes.
Speaker 1: Crazy did that happen? Dog?
Speaker 2: We were losing that whole game in part because we
Speaker 2: didn't start Doug Flutie.
Speaker 1: We started Rob Johns. I remember that whole debate in
Speaker 1: Rob Johnson had that really interesting bandana he would wear.
Speaker 2: Really interested, you stupid, So we we we started the
Speaker 2: guy that the locker room I would say, mostly didn't support.
Speaker 1: And didn't want.
Speaker 2: So we're like, all right, we're going out there, a
Speaker 2: little handicap and let's go.
Speaker 1: And they had Javan Curse that year. I remember the
Speaker 1: creak and.
Speaker 2: They were playing Rick James every time the Sucker made
Speaker 2: a sack, and they played a lot of Rick James
Speaker 2: that game.
Speaker 3: Right. The sucker was tilting his rookie year. He was insane.
Speaker 1: He was so good so good.
Speaker 2: So they're they're beating us most of the game. And
Speaker 2: I remember the fans heckling us. We're in Tennessee, they
Speaker 2: talking trash. We had the number one defense, but it
Speaker 2: was a low scoring game, but they still were winning.
Speaker 1: And everybody in their head was like, damn Flutie was playing.
Speaker 2: One curse, ain't gonna get to Flutie like he getting
Speaker 2: the rock because he was mobile. Yeah, And two we
Speaker 2: were like, oh, we might be winning this game anyway. Somehow,
Speaker 2: some way, we find a way where we're leading. And
Speaker 2: I think it's like twelve seconds ago, nine seconds, I
Speaker 2: don't know, it's something low. All we got to do
Speaker 2: is kick the ball off, make the tackle.
Speaker 1: Game over, yin yan yang.
Speaker 2: And I remember right before the kickoff, so the whole
Speaker 2: stadiums deflated, and then the people started to walk a
Speaker 2: little like just to go.
Speaker 1: They're not leaving, but they're gonna. They're gonna stand at
Speaker 1: the top so seeing the final play and then try
Speaker 1: to get to the car for everybody else. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: we clowning them. We're like, oh, oh, where are I going?
Speaker 1: What's up?
Speaker 2: And were like, because we think we're gonna win, there
Speaker 2: gonna do is kick the ball off and then tackle
Speaker 2: to do. They kicked that ball off and I think, uh,
Speaker 2: lorenz O'Neil got it first. Now he's a fullback, so
Speaker 2: I'm not expecting him to take off, but he's jogging
Speaker 2: and he's a fullback, So what's happening In slow moment,
Speaker 2: I'm like, what, And.
Speaker 1: I think he threw it?
Speaker 2: Uh him or white check through it to Dison now
Speaker 2: diceon can row when he threw it cross field, Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's what it was.
Speaker 1: Low Neil got it. Give the white check.
Speaker 2: He ran the sideways, threw it and then and when
Speaker 2: he did this, everybody on our.
Speaker 1: Because you could see it. We've seen too much football.
Speaker 1: We could see it delble like.
Speaker 2: So my thought was, I swear it happened on the
Speaker 2: opposing sideline, Tennessee. If it happened right in front of me,
Speaker 2: I would have took that penalty. Now, I don't know
Speaker 2: if they would have gave them six six points or
Speaker 2: they would just say give them.
Speaker 1: Twenty yards right right right.
Speaker 2: And I was like, ain't no, because you can just
Speaker 2: see it. There was no one in front him, and
Speaker 2: we got sucked in. He caught that ball to the
Speaker 2: house and it was a rap.
Speaker 1: After that, you guys get to the locker room. After
Speaker 1: that ends, what is said? What does Wade Phillips say?
Speaker 1: What is like? What what is the like? That's one
Speaker 1: of those things, right, How did it like what happens
Speaker 1: in the locker room right after that? Immediately?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, the first thing that happened was a ten
Speaker 2: minute in real time like instant replay, Like they literally
Speaker 2: went under the hood for it felt like ten minutes,
Speaker 2: kind of like the tuck room, remember that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because this was prior to their being challenges and all.
Speaker 2: That, right, Yeah, but they had to review it and
Speaker 2: they kept going, kept going. The fans start crowding around
Speaker 2: the officials, like right there in the front row. I mean,
Speaker 2: it was a shoe scrum, and he's just under there
Speaker 2: looking like, I mean forever, just.
Speaker 1: Like the tuck rule was. He was like twenty minutes later.
Speaker 2: Then he came out and he was like the call
Speaker 2: stands or you know, touchdown.
Speaker 1: We were like, oh, because we thought it was a
Speaker 1: FOURD letter yeah kind of, I mean, but I mean
Speaker 1: it was close MIT.
Speaker 2: I think they did it at MIT and they were like, yeah,
Speaker 2: it was a FOURD letter by this degree.
Speaker 1: But whatever.
Speaker 2: So then we get into the locker room, and not
Speaker 2: to exaggerate it, it felt like a traumatic experience, like
Speaker 2: you remember being in there, but now you reflect back.
Speaker 2: I don't recall any of that except crying. Everybody was
Speaker 2: like either pissed or crying. But I don't remember one
Speaker 2: word from Wade. I don't remember one interaction with another guy.
Speaker 2: I just remember seeing tears, people pissed off, and even
Speaker 2: me just sitting there crying. And there's an interview of
Speaker 2: me yelling or talking trash about officiating and stuff, et cetera.
Speaker 3: But this is a whole different era.
Speaker 1: Man. We just had to we had to eat it.
Speaker 1: We had to take Yeah, because I just finished The
Speaker 1: Quarterbacks on Netflix. Have you seen that? So Netflix has
Speaker 1: a show that they dropped. You should watch it? Okay,
Speaker 1: It follows last season Marcus Mariota, Patrick Mahomes and Kirk
Speaker 1: Cousins seen the billboard somewhere. It's so good.
Speaker 3: It means, let me find out it's really good, let
Speaker 3: me hear why.
Speaker 1: Well one it lets you know how much of like
Speaker 1: an absolute maniac because it follows Patrick Mahomes at home
Speaker 1: and they're with them all year. He's a maniac. For
Speaker 1: Kirk Cousins. You come out of it respecting him so
Speaker 1: much more because he gets hell, yeah, yes, he played
Speaker 1: hurt all season last year, and I didn't know he
Speaker 1: was the most hit quarterback in football last year. I
Speaker 1: didn't know either, So he was just getting this. Shaffer
Speaker 1: was hurt all last year. His ribs were fucked up
Speaker 1: the whole year, and they had one of the best
Speaker 1: records in the league all year, you know, and then
Speaker 1: they lost to the Giants in the playoff. And then
Speaker 1: you see Marcus Mariota and you realize the difference between
Speaker 1: He might have all the talent in the world, but
Speaker 1: you see well, but you see everything, right, You see
Speaker 1: the preparation, You see the passion that Kirk Cousins and
Speaker 1: Mahomes has, and to me, Mariota has kind of like
Speaker 1: a he's just not into it like they are.
Speaker 2: And you're like, well, how do you measure that? Because
Speaker 2: I've played Julius Pepper's Hall of Famer. Oh yeah, got
Speaker 2: caught up in that where there's a physical demonstration and
Speaker 2: like expression of commitment. And then there's some guys who
Speaker 2: just like, I'm showing you that, but I am committed.
Speaker 1: I just think Julius Peppers is alien too, so that's different. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's like it's like questioning Alan Iverson. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but he's Allan Iverson. Marcus Mariota is not Alan Iverson.
Speaker 1: But I came out of it being extremely scared for
Speaker 1: the next ten years about having a you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm a Cardinals fan, so it doesn't really matter. We're
Speaker 1: not doing shit. But just Mariota or Mahomes is that guy.
Speaker 1: But Kirk Cousins is man, He's a baller. Yeah, Kirk.
Speaker 2: See, that's another thing about like sports media, you got
Speaker 2: some you got to tell someone I'm over here on fire,
Speaker 2: and I ain't nervous to tell somebody I'm sweating.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The thing about like I got a little mad too
Speaker 2: at here we go, Thank you, brother. I got mad
Speaker 2: at just the coverage of a guy like her Cousins,
Speaker 2: who's way better than what his labor or narrative, right.
Speaker 1: The narrative is he's chokes and you're never gonna win
Speaker 1: a Super Bowl.
Speaker 3: Kirk Cousins.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, until he does, or you know, if he does.
Speaker 1: It used to be that way with Andy Reid, by
Speaker 1: the way, come on.
Speaker 3: It was Andy Reid. Look, they did that to so
Speaker 3: many grace.
Speaker 2: It was rich Gannon who never won when he got there,
Speaker 2: but was an MVP and a machine got there. So
Speaker 2: it's like, come on, here's the thing. Why don't like it?
Speaker 2: And it really hits me is because I coach. I
Speaker 2: coached my son. He's a seven year old, and we
Speaker 2: out there Tilton like we win the championships every year.
Speaker 3: We got squad.
Speaker 2: But the thing that really hurts me is every single
Speaker 2: kid that shows up, their heroes are the active players. Now,
Speaker 2: some of them like guys like a Dak Prescott, like
Speaker 2: a Kirk Cousins, Like it's not always just who is
Speaker 2: the best, you know, they find their guy and they
Speaker 2: love their guy. And I was like, dog one day
Speaker 2: it hit me it was crazy, I'm coaching my kids
Speaker 2: and their favorite receivers or Cooper Cup and all these
Speaker 2: kind of guys you know they love. My son loves
Speaker 2: Austin Ekelert whatever. Not the best running back, but he
Speaker 2: wanted the best. And then I go to work the
Speaker 2: next day and I'm around and in the atmosphere where
Speaker 2: they're tearing down my son's favorite and I was like,
Speaker 2: and I'm supporting this through either my complicity or the
Speaker 2: fact that you know you either silent or you're actually contributing,
Speaker 2: or sometimes you fighting against it. But that's just engagement
Speaker 2: and people gonna chime in. Even more so I am
Speaker 2: complicit in it. And I was like, dog, I'm in
Speaker 2: some weird, like bizarro universe where I'm actually tearing down
Speaker 2: some heroes for my.
Speaker 1: Kid, for my kid, and for a bunch of kids.
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, I'm telling this kid run, stay in line, stay
Speaker 2: disciplined so he can be the best he could be,
Speaker 2: and pray he can make it to the league. And
Speaker 2: now I'm over here watching that happen to not only
Speaker 2: NFL guys, but like a Kevin Durant or Russell Westbrook
Speaker 2: and like.
Speaker 1: Pick them, just tearing them down from there, especially Russ.
Speaker 1: I mean, you want to talk about somebody who's a
Speaker 1: lot of kids heroes that got tore down to Like
Speaker 1: I mean, listen, thank god the Clippers thing worked out,
Speaker 1: but it was it was like sad to see the
Speaker 1: way people were talking about I'm like, this is Russell Westbrook.
Speaker 1: I mean, like, this guy's probably my favorite player I've
Speaker 1: ever watched in person. Just to see Russ live up
Speaker 1: close with the thunder, it was crazy. Yeah, and he
Speaker 1: homie too is good.
Speaker 4: Dude.
Speaker 2: Look, no one's perfect in terms of listen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can get into like what you said, you
Speaker 1: get into the good for winning the Disney fit with
Speaker 1: the Lakers, you know, But.
Speaker 2: But keep your respect, calling like stripes like let him
Speaker 2: in jackets like you are a doctor.
Speaker 1: I'm always call you. Yeah, you're a hall of fame.
Speaker 1: You're a hall of fame. I always respect my MVP.
Speaker 2: Yes, y'all coming at me like I'm just trying to
Speaker 2: make it like I'm trying to do something in this
Speaker 2: and it's silly, but that's what I just kind of
Speaker 2: got fatigued of as well, in an overall sense of
Speaker 2: like overarching this was like, damn dog, we really tearing
Speaker 2: cats down just for some ratings, just to pop because
Speaker 2: we got an arcade ratings system, because we competing against
Speaker 2: all these casts at.
Speaker 1: Are on YouTube that could do it. And he don't
Speaker 1: even tear cast down. He doesn't. No, that's crazy, You're right,
Speaker 1: he never does any of that ship really know how
Speaker 1: hard it is.
Speaker 2: And so he's a punter saying, man, I'm propping up everybody,
Speaker 2: and if.
Speaker 1: Look the guy any self deprecating, right, I'm just a punner.
Speaker 1: Who do I know? Right?
Speaker 2: And I'm like, dog, there's an alternative to this. There's
Speaker 2: an alternate universe that I need to go live in.
Speaker 2: And that's where I'm at now.
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. Man, Well, I think it's dope. The
Speaker 1: YouTube channel's doing great. I'm getting that like in the week.
Speaker 1: Why do you get that that dope? Once you hit
Speaker 1: the one hundred thousand, it just gives you an option
Speaker 1: and they send you one for free. That's s I
Speaker 1: need that in my life. Yeah, it's gonna happen. I
Speaker 1: wish they used to give one for two fifty, I think,
Speaker 1: because we just hit like two seventy five. Well you
Speaker 1: out here eating how long you've had this? We started
Speaker 1: it June twenty twenty, No, June twenty twenty one, so
Speaker 1: about a year and and three months into the pandemic.
Speaker 1: Oh now it was that pandemic. It's been about two years.
Speaker 1: The pandemics. The best thing ever happened to me. That's
Speaker 1: what it made me and reshaped my whole perspective on
Speaker 1: what was important. Because I used to be I started
Speaker 1: in the pandemic going to a radio station every night
Speaker 1: for six hours a day doing my show live Arcaic
Speaker 1: A way, Yeah, just changed everything for me. Damn.
Speaker 3: They said that pandemic like.
Speaker 1: It either broke you or made you better.
Speaker 2: Heard like, I know how it was socially for me,
Speaker 2: but I was fat and fool on the.
Speaker 1: Day and it was crazy because I mean, dude, I
Speaker 1: mean I remember just listening to sports podcast talking about
Speaker 1: the last Dance like it was happening live because there
Speaker 1: was nothing else going on. It was like yep, yep.
Speaker 2: And the craziest thing was I started because I moved.
Speaker 2: Since then, my boy Matt Lindzen and I went to
Speaker 2: college with my brother from another in twenty eighteen. He
Speaker 2: was like, oh, you need to do a podcast, and
Speaker 2: I thought he was like almost insulting me.
Speaker 1: And it was weird because I was.
Speaker 3: Like, dog, I'm listening to him. Him and his wife.
Speaker 3: They was like, oh my god, I love podcasts. It's
Speaker 3: the best thing.
Speaker 1: And You're like, man, I ain't doing a pile on
Speaker 1: TV right.
Speaker 2: Not only that, but I also don't have the time.
Speaker 2: But I was like, I'm gonna look into it, no lie.
Speaker 2: Twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, I started in my poolhouse.
Speaker 1: I was like, all right, let me just get in
Speaker 1: a shot. I didn't even give it a shot. Set
Speaker 1: it up, got to the point where the MIC's gonna
Speaker 1: turn on.
Speaker 2: Guess what. I was like, Damn, it's hottest hell in there.
Speaker 2: I sweat a lot, like you can tell right now.
Speaker 2: And I was like, it's hot at hell here. Okay,
Speaker 2: we need to order an AC unit or have the
Speaker 2: AC guy.
Speaker 1: Before I start.
Speaker 2: Before I start, in that time, I saw a house.
Speaker 2: I was like, Yo, this dream house. We gotta move.
Speaker 1: You go there.
Speaker 2: You moved in that time. And then I moved and
Speaker 2: when I moved didn't reset up. I didn't reset I
Speaker 2: was just like, all right, maybe that was a sign,
Speaker 2: don't even do it. And I literally moved and I
Speaker 2: had this studio in the house and I was like,
Speaker 2: oh no, I'm good.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna just keep doing this.
Speaker 2: And then literally when in September of last year, I
Speaker 2: finally said, man, I ain't gonna be doing this no more.
Speaker 2: Let's stop doing this and let's do it a different way,
Speaker 2: do it that independent way. And then from September to
Speaker 2: like January, I was just like in the lab saying,
Speaker 2: where's your voice?
Speaker 1: Who are you? For real?
Speaker 3: What what you love about?
Speaker 1: Before? What you love about this future, can you apply
Speaker 1: to the new ship? Yeah?
Speaker 2: And I was just like, then I've got a little
Speaker 2: paralysis by analysis. I kept designing it.
Speaker 1: And I was like, you'll overthink it. Hell yeah, you
Speaker 1: overthink yourself into procrastination every time.
Speaker 2: Dog.
Speaker 3: And I was like, that's what they were paying me for.
Speaker 2: Over there, don't think we got it got you just
Speaker 2: show up and it's good and there's.
Speaker 1: A takes a lot more to really do it. You're
Speaker 1: on your own because now you gotta do It's about
Speaker 1: the action and you're afraid people are gonna receive it
Speaker 1: for sure. Trust me. I was there too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was weird, Like I just was like I
Speaker 2: was I was untraining myself from from a lazier experience,
Speaker 2: which was great because they paid me and it gave
Speaker 2: me platform.
Speaker 1: But I was like, change your life.
Speaker 3: My muscles, man, they out of shape, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean?
Speaker 2: Like, get the work bro in a way that it
Speaker 2: is expressing exactly who.
Speaker 1: You are, not just what the machine is saying.
Speaker 2: So then finally January I was just like, let me
Speaker 2: do it. And then February I was like I turned
Speaker 2: the cameras on January. February, I said, let's do this
Speaker 2: for real, do it every day, and now we had
Speaker 2: like almost one hundred thousand suscribers already.
Speaker 1: Well, congrats. Last question, yeah, okay, do you want the
Speaker 1: Clippers to move on from this Kawhi Paul George Era.
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's going to happen or not,
Speaker 1: but but if you tell me your thoughts on that
Speaker 1: era and do we like to give it another year? Also,
Speaker 1: how do you feel about James Harden potentially wanting to
Speaker 1: come to the Clippers and would you would you would
Speaker 1: you welcome such things? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Look, it's so tough to give up on that dynamic duo,
Speaker 2: but they're not there when you need them most.
Speaker 1: The best availability or whether they say the.
Speaker 2: Best ability availability, yeah, and we just can't trust that.
Speaker 2: So it's a lot of hope when you need actions
Speaker 2: the most. And look, Kawhi's knee is what it is.
Speaker 2: He took a year, a year and a half off
Speaker 2: and still couldn't even run off. Yeah, and still couldn't
Speaker 2: make a playoff run. So then you are like, all right,
Speaker 2: we got to break it up just to reshuffle the deck,
Speaker 2: reimagine this situation and get a different result. It's insanity
Speaker 2: to keep doing the same thing expecting a different result.
Speaker 2: Problem is, Paul George is more available than Kawhi, but
Speaker 2: Paul George is not Kawhi because when Kawhi is on,
Speaker 2: he's top five, damn why and Paul George's top twenty
Speaker 2: for sure.
Speaker 1: Beast.
Speaker 2: But it's a different animal. So they're gonna have to
Speaker 2: break it up. But I think they're gonna run it
Speaker 2: back one more time.
Speaker 1: As a Clipper fan, do you ever think I wish
Speaker 1: we never would have made the trade because we would
Speaker 1: have had an SGA and all those picks.
Speaker 2: No, you know what, Shaye Gildris, they talked them with,
Speaker 2: They talked to us as fans, They talked to everyone
Speaker 2: through that process.
Speaker 3: They knew they were giving.
Speaker 1: Up a ball. Oh Paul, but you gotta take the
Speaker 1: swing if you're the Clippers, right, you're the Clippers.
Speaker 2: No, first of all, you're a professional football of basketball Clippers.
Speaker 1: But you're the Clippers. Like, if you can get two
Speaker 1: of the top fifteen guys in the league, top five
Speaker 1: guy who just want to ring, you gotta try it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's you gotta swing for the fence. That's why am
Speaker 1: I man of my son's we're swinging for the fences.
Speaker 1: Oh should be is a wild boy man he's doing
Speaker 1: he don't give a fuck about a second apron, first apron.
Speaker 1: He's running through. That's it.
Speaker 3: So we got to swing for the fences.
Speaker 2: I think right now the strikeouts are starting to add
Speaker 2: up where we're gonna have to change our swing, that's all.
Speaker 2: What about herten on the Clippers on paper, I don't
Speaker 2: see it, especially because we got Westbrook.
Speaker 3: I don't see that. I mean, look, because that means.
Speaker 1: Paul George is out, like someone's gotta go someone. You're
Speaker 1: not gonna trade Kawhi, are you really? No? You have
Speaker 1: to change Paul. So Paul George is gone.
Speaker 2: We're gonna use up Westbrook to get us to the playoffs,
Speaker 2: hopeful Kawhi to get us over the hump.
Speaker 1: And meanwhile, yeah, pg's a better fit than James's.
Speaker 2: So yeah, so I don't I don't see that style
Speaker 2: of ball hardened the baller still because when MB was hurt,
Speaker 2: he did his staying every single time.
Speaker 1: Let the league in assist, yeah, exactly, also let the
Speaker 1: league and strip club visits.
Speaker 2: I can't talk to you now, that's only on an
Speaker 2: official record. Somebody else got to beat anyway. I appreciate
Speaker 2: you man, Thank you. Boom go make sure you subscribe
Speaker 2: on YouTube. You're dropping it out daily, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, daily man.
Speaker 2: We there every single day talking sports, intersection of life
Speaker 2: in sports and just breaking it down for real.
Speaker 1: There it is. Appreciate you really, all right, yes, sir, yes,
Speaker 1: sir fire Hey, this interview is brought to you by
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