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Speaker 1: Ah beaute force. If it doesn't work, you're just not

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Speaker 1: using enough. You're listening to Software Radio, Special Operations, Military

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Speaker 1: News and straight Talk with the guys and the Community

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Speaker 1: Drop with that, I mean Scotto Jack Murphy is here

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Speaker 1: and it is the sixty fifth birthday as a recording

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Speaker 1: this today of James Smokey West, Jim West. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: talked to Jim this morning. Uh. He's doing good. He's

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Speaker 1: actually meeting with a co author he's working with producing

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Speaker 1: a whole series of books. Yeah, which I you know,

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Speaker 1: did say to them, I want to see some of

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Speaker 1: these see the light of day. I've known Jim at

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Speaker 1: this point. I mean you've known him longer than I have,

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Speaker 1: but it's probably about seven years because I remember him

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Speaker 1: turning sixty and we've been talking about this book. The

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Speaker 1: book you helped him with is pretty much done, but

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Speaker 1: we needed out I must spend like two years ago.

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Speaker 1: I told him the ship or get off the pot,

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Speaker 1: you know. Um. But it looks like one of these

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Speaker 1: books is going to be out like this week. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So well so he for According to him, there's the

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Speaker 1: memoir that you helped him out with, there's the fighting book,

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Speaker 1: and now he's doing another book on like near death experiences.

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Speaker 1: That's what he said on the phone to me, Um,

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Speaker 1: and he's probably gonna come on next week and talk

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Speaker 1: about it, but I just want to see these come

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Speaker 1: out already. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Um, well good now, I'm

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Speaker 1: glad he's coming on the podcast. Yeah. I love seeing

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Speaker 1: Jim And you know, I'm sure we could have him

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Speaker 1: back on when you're here, but you're gonna be away

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Speaker 1: next week for a little bit, so I'm I'm figuring

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Speaker 1: out what I'm gonna do for those and instead of

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Speaker 1: doing best of I'll Jim in. I'll have your friend, Um,

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Speaker 1: Doug Kachi jian in. Yeah that's great. Yeah. C J. Woodwroff,

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Speaker 1: who's been on the show before. It was a former

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Speaker 1: marine and big in the fitness world, so I figured

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Speaker 1: them two together would make sense. Um. But yeah, that's it.

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Speaker 1: Happy birthday to Jim West. As I was telling you

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Speaker 1: this past weekend, I had to run a whole bunch

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Speaker 1: of errands. It was actually my mom's sixtieth who was celebrating,

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Speaker 1: so we had a big party for her. Um and

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Speaker 1: I had a lot of time to just listen to things,

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Speaker 1: so I watched the entire Alex Jones deposition and of

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Speaker 1: the lawyer representing the Sandy Hook Families, um suing Alex Jones,

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Speaker 1: which I showed you a little bit of before recorded,

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Speaker 1: and this lawyer really destroys Alex Jones with his own words,

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Speaker 1: between the fact that he pretty much created the conspiracy

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Speaker 1: theory of Sandy Hook Families the day that it was happening,

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Speaker 1: saying that it looked like a false flag and all this,

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Speaker 1: and you know that I think the best part which

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Speaker 1: I showed you was where he said, well, you know,

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Speaker 1: he was questioning parts of it, but it wasn't in

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Speaker 1: its entirety a false flag. And then there's the clip

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Speaker 1: of him saying the whole thing is a hoax. Play

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Speaker 1: the clip. Yeah, it's awesome. I have to find I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, you know, something like Sandy Hook isn't

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Speaker 1: something that you know, you necessarily want to laugh about

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Speaker 1: or that you associate with comedy. But this segment of

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Speaker 1: the deposition is indeed, uh, pretty funny. Though that you

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Speaker 1: were showing me a few minutes ago. I'll go back

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Speaker 1: to the one we were watching, because that one had

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Speaker 1: here we go, I'll be able to find the part

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Speaker 1: that we were with that same mess about Sandy Hook.

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Speaker 1: This is it. Yeah, this is the best I mean,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to call anything best with Sandy Hook,

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Speaker 1: but it's just amazing how you know he um can't

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Speaker 1: I can't gather basically what he said and hold a

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Speaker 1: story together. Answer your questions. Mr Jones, you're gonna tell

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Speaker 1: me what stas. Here we go. I'm sorry, I don't

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Speaker 1: understand by the spring of or so, let's say just

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Speaker 1: a few months after the shooting. By that point, you

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Speaker 1: had gone from theory to just straight up telling your

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Speaker 1: audience Sandy Hook was staged and the evidence is overwhelming. Correct,

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Speaker 1: what a stage? I'm just asking you what you used

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Speaker 1: to were telling your audience. No, no no, I'm not answering

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Speaker 1: your questions. Mr Jones, You're gonna tell me what stats

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Speaker 1: means when you said it. So, what I'm asking you

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Speaker 1: is a few months after the shooting, you had gone

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Speaker 1: from theory to straight up telling your audience Sandy Hook

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Speaker 1: was staged and the evidence was over on me. True

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Speaker 1: or false? But I'm asking you to define what you

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Speaker 1: mean by staying. I'm not asking. I'm not asking for

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Speaker 1: a definition of stage. I don't care what stage means.

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Speaker 1: I'm asking did you say it? I don't have it

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Speaker 1: in front of me. But they stayed standings just overwhelming.

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Speaker 1: By the end of you had personally done intensive research

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Speaker 1: and you concluded it was all fake. Correct this specific

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Speaker 1: areas I was talking about being fake, not in a totality.

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Speaker 1: Go ahead and play that for me. But it couldn't

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Speaker 1: be about a year with Sandy hook to coming gridg

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Speaker 1: with the fact that the whole thing is fake. I mean,

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Speaker 1: even though I couldn't believe, I knew they jumped on

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Speaker 1: and used the crisis typed it up, but then I

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Speaker 1: did deep research and my gosh, it just pretty much

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Speaker 1: didn't happen. Yeah, So if you'd like, there is literally

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Speaker 1: I think two and a half plus hours of this

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Speaker 1: if you really want to drive yourself crazy. You know,

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Speaker 1: I enjoyed watching because it's just the amount of stuff

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Speaker 1: that he I mean, the evidences. We talked about it

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Speaker 1: the other day when we did that podcast with Joe

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Speaker 1: about Oklahoma City, and I mean, Alex is always one

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Speaker 1: of those people Oklahoma City is an inside job or

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Speaker 1: some sort of conspiracy or government bombed itself. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: it's really interesting how you know, his ideas have achieved

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Speaker 1: some level of like mainstreaming as far as like otherwise

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Speaker 1: normal people starting to buy off on that ship. Like

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Speaker 1: I know one guy who's a a former marine, and

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Speaker 1: he was telling me how guys in his basic training,

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Speaker 1: uh course, believe that Sandy Hook is an inside job,

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Speaker 1: despite him telling him how his father, who's a preacher,

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Speaker 1: put those kids in the ground like it was there

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Speaker 1: for the funerals. And he's like, dude, there's guys like

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Speaker 1: Marines I know who think it's an inside job. And

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Speaker 1: I think part of the main streaming of in for

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Speaker 1: Wards and Alex Jones is also the legitimacy of the

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Speaker 1: people he's had on there. I mean, the President has

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Speaker 1: been on in full wars, Rand Paul has been on

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Speaker 1: in floors believe Ron Paul, Judge Napolitano has been on

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Speaker 1: in foros, like a lot of credible people, and he

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Speaker 1: puts up strange cats like that guy Steve Pochenek, who

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Speaker 1: makes a lot of claims, claims was involved somehow with

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Speaker 1: Aldo Moro, the former Italian prime minister who was killed,

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Speaker 1: um you know, makes a lot of you know, odd

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Speaker 1: claims about being a member of the UM you know,

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Speaker 1: Association of Intelligence Professionals. But he also goes on there

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Speaker 1: on Alex Jones and says that nine eleven was an

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Speaker 1: inside job. It's a it's fucking crazy. Yeah, it's interesting

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Speaker 1: what's going to happen with this because there is the

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Speaker 1: angle of what is free speech what is actually a

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Speaker 1: threat to the families. And if you watch this whole thing,

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Speaker 1: the thing that I do, uh many of us, I

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Speaker 1: think would agree crosses the line is where he mentions

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Speaker 1: the address of a p O box of a nonprofit

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Speaker 1: set up by one of the family members, and he

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Speaker 1: says exactly where it's located. And as the lawyer correctly states,

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Speaker 1: at that point, members of his audience could stake out

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Speaker 1: where this guy gets his mail and do something. So

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's going to be the subject of

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Speaker 1: this particular, you know, lawsuit. But there's also some interesting

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Speaker 1: questions about Alex Jones and his relationship with organizations like

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Speaker 1: rt uh you know, Russian state sponsored media English language

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Speaker 1: media platform that has now Yeah, they have had to

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Speaker 1: register now under the Foreign Agent Registration Act. That's one

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Speaker 1: thing that happened during the Trump administration. He made a

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Speaker 1: bunch of those people register um because they're acting on

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Speaker 1: behalf of foreign powers to propagandize the American public and

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Speaker 1: the question is how involved is Alex Alex Jones and

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Speaker 1: in that, um, the Russians, the Russian intelligence apparatus no

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Speaker 1: doubt sees somebody like Alex as a useful patsy. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that is the perfect vehicle to drive wedges in Americans

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Speaker 1: society and to get us to all fight each other

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Speaker 1: and hate each other and to distrust our government. I

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Speaker 1: mean it's like okay to have a natural distrust of government,

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Speaker 1: but you know, saying our government, you know, blew up

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Speaker 1: Oklahoma City and and flew holographic airplanes into the twin

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Speaker 1: towers for to conceal a controlled demolition so that they

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Speaker 1: could do like this is just like ship that's damaging

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Speaker 1: the public discourse and it's not true. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: interesting since you mentioned it, I have you know, like

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Speaker 1: many of us looked up the conspiracy theories on nine eleven.

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Speaker 1: So Alex is not a guy who believes that it

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Speaker 1: was holograms. Although what you're saying, there are people who

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Speaker 1: really believe that, including a guy who had some position

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Speaker 1: I could probably look it up, um related to economics

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Speaker 1: in the Bush administration believed it was a hologram that

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Speaker 1: flew into the Twin towers. I mean, there's that whole organization.

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Speaker 1: Look him up just to fact check here, there's that

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Speaker 1: whole organization. I think it's called Architects and Engineers for

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Speaker 1: nine eleven truth. And I mean there are people who

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Speaker 1: have professional backgrounds and engineering, uh who believe that it

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Speaker 1: was a controlled demolition. I mean, it's I don't even

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Speaker 1: know what to say. I mean, I'm not an expert

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Speaker 1: on demolition, but just my experience in the military, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it would take fucking dozens and dozens of people, weeks

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Speaker 1: and weeks to tear through uh, you know, walls and

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Speaker 1: plant charges against uh you know steel, I beams and

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Speaker 1: so forth in the towers, and like what the logic

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Speaker 1: just it baffles me how anyone could convince themselves that

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Speaker 1: that happened. Well, just to do some fact checking here,

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Speaker 1: this is who I'm talking about. Chief economists, former chief

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Speaker 1: economists within the Labor Department under the Bush administration. Morgan

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Speaker 1: Reynolds argued that there were no planes used in the attacks.

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Speaker 1: Reynolds claimed it is physically impossible that the Boeing planes

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Speaker 1: of flights eleven and one could have penetrated the steel

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Speaker 1: frames of the towers. And when I click on his name.

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Speaker 1: This is from Wikipedia just you know, but um, just

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Speaker 1: just I'd have to go through all the sources to

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Speaker 1: actually find the legitimate sources. But um, he is a

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Speaker 1: member of Scholars for nine eleven Truth, the group that

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Speaker 1: you're talking about. So wow, it's uh yeah, I mean otherwise,

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Speaker 1: you know, saying rational people get this stuff into their head.

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Speaker 1: And it's one of those things where, um, and I

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Speaker 1: know I've talked about this in the past two I

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Speaker 1: mean in the Middle East, conspiracy theories are huge, and

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Speaker 1: people think the CIA does everything like that, Like if

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Speaker 1: it rains that people think the CIA did that. It's

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Speaker 1: one of those things where Okay, there's a little bit

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Speaker 1: of truth that there are these like secret covert players

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Speaker 1: meddling around in Middle Eastern affairs, right, but a lot

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Speaker 1: of people see that five percent is true, and then

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Speaker 1: they assume everything is true, right, that every weirdo conspiracy

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Speaker 1: theory is true, and then it gets under the Illuminati

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Speaker 1: and the Masons and the Jews and all this crazy shit.

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Speaker 1: And it's the same thing here in the United States.

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Speaker 1: I mean, yes, our government lies to us sometimes, but

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Speaker 1: people will take that five percent and then just well

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Speaker 1: that means that Sandy Hook was an inside job and

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Speaker 1: nine eleven was an inside job, and all this like

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Speaker 1: just zany bullshit. Uh, it's really um you know, conspiracy

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Speaker 1: theorists are kind of a case study and how people

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Speaker 1: have a difficult time discerning facts from fiction. Um our

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Speaker 1: our brains are pattern recognition devices in some ways. And

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Speaker 1: and Alex plays on that. Alex Jones plays on that,

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Speaker 1: and he says, look this one thing over here, like

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Speaker 1: even in that that position, we were watching references Operation Northwoods,

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Speaker 1: which is a plan that a real it was a

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Speaker 1: real plan that I believe was drafted by the Dullest brothers,

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Speaker 1: which would have been a false flag operation. And uh,

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Speaker 1: it never happened, It never got off the ground. I

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Speaker 1: think JFK shut it down. Uh. But Alex will reference

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Speaker 1: that plan that was never executed as somehow de facto

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Speaker 1: proof that Sandy Hook or nine eleven were inside jobs.

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Speaker 1: It's like, no, bro, that's not how logic works. Like

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Speaker 1: we don't get to go into the past and cherry

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Speaker 1: pick a proposed plan that was never executed and use

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Speaker 1: that as some sort of weird uh quote unquote evidence.

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Speaker 1: Not every mass shooting or terrorist strike is an inside job.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't work like that. Yeah, I wonder what's going

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Speaker 1: to happen, because, like I said, it does fall under

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Speaker 1: the issues of free speech and even under the harassment

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Speaker 1: of the families thing. For example, you have that um

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Speaker 1: Westboro Baptist church that that boycott's soldiers, funerals and all

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Speaker 1: friends to discussing things. But they are covered under the

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Speaker 1: First Amendment to do what they do. And you could

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Speaker 1: certainly say that's harassment of the families. So if they're

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Speaker 1: able to do that, why is Alex not able to

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Speaker 1: put his crazy theories out on the air. And and

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Speaker 1: I am a free speech advocate at the same time,

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Speaker 1: I don't feel it's okay for these families to be harassed.

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Speaker 1: So it's, uh, it's a tough call, and we'll see

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Speaker 1: what actually happens. And you know, if he loses a

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Speaker 1: lot of money in this. And he's already pretty much

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Speaker 1: been d platforms by just about everybody, but he's always

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Speaker 1: his website, I mean for Alex, I mean, that's like

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Speaker 1: that's like a selling point, right for him, because like

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Speaker 1: I'm the alternative on the on the real deal, you know,

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Speaker 1: come to me. But yeah, I mean he's been doing

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Speaker 1: this stuff for years and years. It's interesting that Sandy

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Speaker 1: Hook finally got him. And I think you're right that

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Speaker 1: it's because he probably went after the families specifically UH

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Speaker 1: as opposed to some of the other events. But I

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Speaker 1: mean he's been any kind of incident that happens, I mean, terrorism, shooting,

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Speaker 1: whatever it is, it's always an inside job. I don't

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Speaker 1: think we've ever seen Alex Jones be like, Nope, this

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Speaker 1: is just a crazy this is this is a crazy person,

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Speaker 1: or no, the government's right, this was al Qaeda did this?

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Speaker 1: All right? We have Jeff Kirkham standing by, who I

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Speaker 1: am excited to talk to. But I'll get to this

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Speaker 1: very quick email, UM, which is kind of more for

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Speaker 1: me because is something that I mentioned. Um. This is

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Speaker 1: from John sent a softwarep dot radio at softwarep dot com.

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Speaker 1: Hey guys, on episode two nine three, you talked about

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Speaker 1: the Deck of Cards workout. Could you explain more? Thank you?

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Speaker 1: So that was when we had Seawan Lake on from

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Speaker 1: Bub's Naturals, and I guess I must have mentioned it

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Speaker 1: because I worked out with Brandon at his gym one

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Speaker 1: day actually, like before I got hired full time, and

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Speaker 1: him and Michael Colm Echo from who hosts the show

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Speaker 1: on on PBS. We did this workout where you would

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Speaker 1: um do the amount of push ups for the corresponding

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Speaker 1: for the car the number corresponding on the card. So

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Speaker 1: I looked this up and it actually is from a

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Speaker 1: uh Swick and WC site. So I guess this is

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Speaker 1: kind of common in the navy. Uh, but they they

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Speaker 1: have a few more rules. So it's I didn't know

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Speaker 1: how much you did for the like, um Jack, Queen

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Speaker 1: King and what it says here is the Jack you

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Speaker 1: do eleven, Queen, you do twelve? Can you do thirteen?

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Speaker 1: Ace you do fourteen. Now we didn't do this. It

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Speaker 1: says hearts you do normal push ups, Diamonds you do

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Speaker 1: diamond push ups, clubs you do staggered push ups, Spades

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Speaker 1: you do wide arm push ups. And they did the

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Speaker 1: whole deck. I did not do the deck. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: they're would you know, significantly older than me. However, to

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Speaker 1: your body, well, to my credit, here's the thing. When

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Speaker 1: I do push ups, I do real you know, standard

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Speaker 1: form push ups, and for the most part, honestly, unless

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Speaker 1: you're um, I'm trying to think of someone who's been

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Speaker 1: you know, Dell Comstock or something, it is pretty fucking

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Speaker 1: hard to do hundreds of like perfect form push ups.

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Speaker 1: So when we first started this workout, I'm doing regular

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Speaker 1: push ups and then you're kind of doing half as

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Speaker 1: push ups at a certain point because it equals up

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Speaker 1: to hundreds of push ups that you're doing at once.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, that was it, and if you want to

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Speaker 1: try it, it's pretty interesting doing the full deck. But personally,

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Speaker 1: I would rather keep my form correct and not be

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Speaker 1: prone to injury and as opposed to doing a full

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Speaker 1: deck of cards with all these push ups. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's the uh, that's the answer to that. With that

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Speaker 1: for the first time on the podcast is a guy

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Speaker 1: who has an extremely um impressive resume, aft say, an

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Speaker 1: impressive background. Jeff Kirkham Army Special Forces twenty eight years

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Speaker 1: of service and currently a Master sergeant, former special Agent

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Speaker 1: with the d e A. And beyond that, he's the

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Speaker 1: president and inventor with Rats turn a Kid, LLC and

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Speaker 1: owner of Readymon LLC. Where you're a military thriller author.

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Speaker 1: Your latest book is The Last Air Force One with

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Speaker 1: Jason Ross, which is on shelves. Now, I know you

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Speaker 1: also speak several languages. I mean, there's a lot to

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Speaker 1: get into, but very impressive background and very excited to

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Speaker 1: have you join us. Hey, thank thanks for having me on.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate it. And and then just for the just

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Speaker 1: for the record, I'm retired. I'm I'm not currently a

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Speaker 1: mass surge anymore. I my spurs a couple of years ago.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't sure that because I must have seen some

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Speaker 1: bios that looked like you were still active duty that

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Speaker 1: might not have been updated. So I wasn't sure to

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Speaker 1: write if you were a veteran or active duty. No,

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Speaker 1: it's no, It's okay, but yeah, no, not active. I

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Speaker 1: retired a couple of years ago, and about the time

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Speaker 1: we started spending up all of these all of these businesses. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was familiar with ready Man. So it's pretty cool. UM.

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Speaker 1: And I mean, I guess we can get into all

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Speaker 1: that um as well. But do you want to talk

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Speaker 1: a little bit about, you know, going into the military.

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Speaker 1: This is kind of a standard question. I asked most

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Speaker 1: of our guests to kind of start at the beginning.

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Speaker 1: You know, what motivated you to join the military and

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Speaker 1: take the path that you did. Um. You know, that's

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Speaker 1: a great question. I know, Murphy, were you were an SFU. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was in the fifth group and then Ian we're

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Speaker 1: you know, I miss, I'm strictly a radio guy who

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Speaker 1: gets to hang out with you guys. Well I mean, Jackal,

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Speaker 1: Jackal appreciate this. So I actually I joined nineteenth group

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Speaker 1: when I was seventeen years old out here in Utah,

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Speaker 1: and um, like how I got started is like all

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Speaker 1: I ever want to do is be in Special Forces.

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Speaker 1: Like ever since the third grade, I wanted to be

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Speaker 1: a Green Beret and that was you know, that was it.

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Speaker 1: And then that was probably cemented in because I saw

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Speaker 1: like John Wayne and the Green Berets and I was like, okay,

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Speaker 1: this is this is it. And so um, I joined

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Speaker 1: when I was seventeen. And then back then there was

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Speaker 1: no computers, that was, and so my my recruiter worked

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Speaker 1: the system. So I actually went to basic training and

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Speaker 1: then jump school between my junior and senior year of

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Speaker 1: high school, and then came back as a senior in

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Speaker 1: high school, you know, thinking I was a big bad paratrooper,

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Speaker 1: which we all know is like man, I didn't know anything,

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Speaker 1: but but and then I graduated high school two weeks later, boom,

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Speaker 1: I was went back to eleven Bravo school back at

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Speaker 1: Benning back then it was they're called Rep. Sixty three's

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Speaker 1: Now they're called eighteen X rays. And in the aftermath

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Speaker 1: of Eagle Claw, right they started, they were called SF

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Speaker 1: babies back in those days, weren't that. Yep, I was

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Speaker 1: an SF baby. So all I ever knew was was

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Speaker 1: Special Forces and so, yeah, very much so. And so

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Speaker 1: I went to Infantry school and then graduated the Q

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Speaker 1: course and then UM, all through the nineties, I was

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Speaker 1: in first Special Forces Group, so I was a First

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Speaker 1: Group guy, and then I got out and UM went

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Speaker 1: back to nineteenth Group. And that's when I was a

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Speaker 1: special agent with Drug Enforcement Administration. And then the war

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Speaker 1: kicked off, and I was a team sergeant by that time,

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Speaker 1: and UM so led a team on the invasion of Iraq.

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Speaker 1: And then while I was over there, got uh you know,

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Speaker 1: essentially there was a counter tourist unit that was spinning up.

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Speaker 1: So they basically they said, hey, we are spending this

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Speaker 1: unit up. Are you interested? So I said, yep. So

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Speaker 1: I did all the interview and all that process. Came home.

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Speaker 1: Uh about three months. I came home, basically left d

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Speaker 1: e A, resigned from d e A, and then headed

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Speaker 1: straight back over and so as in that unit for

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Speaker 1: the next thirteen years. UM, where I'd met, you know,

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Speaker 1: some unbelievably outstanding people like Wally that if you in

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Speaker 1: his video on Black Rifle Coffee. I haven't known Wally

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Speaker 1: since two thousand and three, two thousand and four, and

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Speaker 1: a bunch of other days, a bunch of the Afghans

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Speaker 1: that we all help each other out here in Utah

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Speaker 1: now so, and then about three or four years ago

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Speaker 1: we started, you know, several businesses. Um. Evan and I.

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Speaker 1: Evan hey For and I were in Special Forces together

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Speaker 1: and um, so we you know, that's when rady Man

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Speaker 1: was spending up. RATS was already in existence, but I

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Speaker 1: pulled it back. I'd license it out to a to

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Speaker 1: a different company, and then pulled that back and then

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Speaker 1: Black Rifle Coffee spun up about that time. And UM yeah,

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Speaker 1: and as they say, the rest is history. What was

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Speaker 1: that like? UM? You know, first of all, you must

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Speaker 1: have seen the Special Operations community, UM go through a

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Speaker 1: massive transformation from what you said you joined in eighty seven,

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Speaker 1: graduated the Q course and eighty nine, going through SF

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Speaker 1: in the nineties and then seeing everything develop after nine

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Speaker 1: eleven must have been pretty wild. UM. I want to

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Speaker 1: ask you about that. But also you know, splashing down

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Speaker 1: from military life to you know, starting these entrepreneurial endeavors.

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Speaker 1: That must have been another big culture shift. It definitely

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Speaker 1: it was. And and yes, saw the military change like

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Speaker 1: when I was at Group Um, you know for the

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Speaker 1: first up until we got issued in fours in nineteen

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Speaker 1: Let's see, that was n seven seven is when we

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Speaker 1: finally got you know, so we had old school in

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Speaker 1: sixteen eight two s and we're still wearing like the

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Speaker 1: suspenders from Vietnam and you know, the only guys that

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Speaker 1: could do close quarter battle where the s OT teams

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Speaker 1: in the sophardic teams, and you know, of course, and

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Speaker 1: then the work kicked off and I mean that that

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Speaker 1: got completely blown out of the water and it was like, man,

428
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 1: we gotta change this and so um. But yeah, and

429
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:52,239
Speaker 1: that's you know, one of the reasons why I end

430
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 1: up going to d E A and so DA. I

431
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 1: was on what was called the Mobile Enforcement Team and

432
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,080
Speaker 1: just had a blast. I was up in Seattle and

433
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 1: at that time, believe it or not, you know, I

434
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 1: had long I had hair down in the middle of

435
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:07,159
Speaker 1: my back and a long beard, and and I was

436
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 1: buying heroin from bikers and from you know, Latin Kings

437
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:17,479
Speaker 1: and the Asians and buying ecstasy and crack, and it

438
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 1: was it was a blast and kicked a lot of doors.

439
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 1: Um we're you know, at one point, we're doing about

440
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 1: a warrant a day there. For in some instances it

441
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,479
Speaker 1: was it was great. It was the s F mission

442
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:32,880
Speaker 1: essentially domestically. So I had a blast. I did. Yeah,

443
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,119
Speaker 1: I was kind of asked all that experience doing like

444
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 1: undercover work and human stuff, um, play into how you

445
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 1: pursued your job in the military as the War on

446
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:45,199
Speaker 1: Terror kicked off, because there probably weren't a lot of

447
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 1: other guys who had that kind of experience at the time. Well,

448
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 1: and that's why, I mean, that's essentially that's why I

449
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:56,119
Speaker 1: got recruited into the CT. And it was because I

450
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 1: had a bunch of experience kicking doors and because doing

451
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 1: you know, at that time, medical training was very new. Um,

452
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,159
Speaker 1: you know, they called it combat lifesaver back then, and

453
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 1: so I was you know, I've been through I'd be

454
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 1: in an e M T for in fifteen years at

455
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 1: that time. And I was never a quote, I was

456
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 1: never a medic. I was never skill identified as a medic,

457
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 1: but they sent me to a bunch of training and

458
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:20,679
Speaker 1: then that act on that. So yeah, so when I

459
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 1: got recruited by the by the CT unit, then that

460
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 1: was definitely. You know, they were like many got a

461
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 1: ton of experience handling sources and and putting together association

462
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 1: matrixes and it's like, hey, are you interested? And I

463
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, so that's pretty cool. What year did

464
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 1: you end up retiring from active duty? It was at

465
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 1: sixteen I think, two thousand and sixteen, I think, So

466
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:47,159
Speaker 1: I was I was went back to the Guard and

467
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 1: I actually ended up retiring out of the Guard out

468
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 1: here at nineteenth group. So I had a very non

469
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:57,400
Speaker 1: typical um military career because I was Guard and then

470
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 1: active and the Guard and then active and bouncing around

471
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:04,119
Speaker 1: and stuff, always you know, essentially looking for you know,

472
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 1: looking for the mission, if I could describe it one

473
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 1: in one term. And when you were kind of getting

474
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 1: to that point where you were thinking about retirement, I mean,

475
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: did you have a plan in place, was there an

476
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 1: idea of what you wanted to go into or was

477
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 1: it as many of us, you know, my I did

478
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 1: the stereotypical thing and played video games in my mom's

479
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: basement the first month after I got out of the army. Yeah.

480
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 1: You know it's funny, is um I had, I had,

481
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,679
Speaker 1: I had written two books on leadership for you know,

482
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 1: for military planning for small unit leaders um at that point.

483
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 1: They're my first two books that I had written. And then, UM,

484
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 1: So to answer your question that I have a plan,

485
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 1: I mean no, I was. I was kind of doing

486
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,879
Speaker 1: the you know, not to bash on seals, but I

487
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 1: was kind of doing the Navy seal thing. I would

488
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 1: figure it out on the ground, you know. And and

489
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: and Evan and I basically you know, came here and

490
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: even lived in my basement of my house for a

491
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 1: little bit. You know. My wife was a was a

492
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:08,399
Speaker 1: special agent, so she, um, she was able to you know,

493
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 1: basically help out while we were trying to get stuff

494
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 1: up and moving and spending on it. But but you know,

495
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 1: being an entrepreneurs is amazing, especially in today's day and age,

496
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 1: because there's just so much opportunity and it's and it's constant.

497
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 1: I call it the enigma of business, where you're constantly

498
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 1: problem solving and it very very much reminds me of

499
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 1: of working in special forces. That's got to be interesting

500
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,680
Speaker 1: to have that dynamic of your wife also being an agent.

501
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,679
Speaker 1: I mean, we've had Sam Faddison, whose former CIA and

502
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,400
Speaker 1: he was in that position where his wife was. Yes,

503
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 1: they even worked together once in a while. That's cool. Yeah. Yeah,

504
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 1: So my wife has a similar background and that she

505
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 1: left that and then became a special agent out here

506
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:54,920
Speaker 1: in Utah because we had reached the point we started

507
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 1: having kids a little bit later in life, and so

508
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,440
Speaker 1: it was like, well, you know, let's let's settle down

509
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 1: here in Utah. That's cool to Albert. So she understands,

510
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 1: you know, she knows the deal absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, So

511
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: she did. She did two tours in Afghanistan and I'm sorry,

512
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 1: I was like, oh ship, I mean so she was

513
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:20,199
Speaker 1: on what were they the fast teams? Uh no, No,

514
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 1: she was that. That was back when she was with

515
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 1: the agency. So she did too. She did two tours

516
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 1: over there. Okay, got you. And then she she left,

517
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 1: She left that place and and came over and was

518
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 1: a special agent afterwards after we started essentially spinning down.

519
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 1: You know. It's one of those things where my last

520
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 1: trip overseas it it turned out it was a it

521
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 1: was a really rough trip, probably the most sketchy. I

522
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 1: had had out of the you know, the thirteen years

523
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 1: over there, and um, when I was leaving, my oldest

524
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 1: at that time was like two years old or three

525
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 1: years old, and he knew that I was leaving again.

526
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 1: You know. My wife was dropping me off at the

527
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 1: airport because I was always I mean I was gone

528
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: and back gone and back gone and back and u. Um.

529
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,239
Speaker 1: So he's he's sitting in his carsey looking down at

530
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,239
Speaker 1: his feet, and I'm like, hey, Papa is leaving, you know,

531
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 1: give me a hug and a kiss, and and he

532
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 1: he wouldn't look at me. And as a new dad,

533
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 1: you know, as in my forties, you know, when I

534
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: had my first son, and as a new dad, when

535
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 1: my son went and look at me when I'm getting

536
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 1: ready to leave, it was like, man, this this isn't

537
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 1: cool anymore. This kind of sucks. And then uh, and

538
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 1: then I had a I had a really rough trip

539
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 1: that that almost went you know, fatal, and it was

540
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 1: coming back. It was like, man, you know what I've

541
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: done everything I ever dreamed of doing in the military

542
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 1: times you know, times five, you know, and so you know,

543
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 1: I think I think I'm you know, it's one of

544
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 1: those things where it's like I think I'm good, I

545
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 1: think I want to try a new challenge, try something else,

546
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 1: you know, after all those years, I mean, I think

547
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 1: you earned the right to have a life and to

548
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: have a family. Yeah. And and at that point too,

549
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 1: you know, I'm forty nine now. At the time, I

550
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 1: was in my mid forties. You know, I'd blown my ankle,

551
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 1: I've broken my leg, I'd blown my knee, I've broken

552
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 1: my back, you know, multiple herniated disks because I ripped

553
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 1: my shoulder out on a target, and I've fallen off

554
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 1: walls and roofs and lost mostly hearing in one of

555
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: my ears, and you know, it's TV eyes. And so

556
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: it was one of those things I was like, you know,

557
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 1: I just I don't I don't get up quite as

558
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 1: fast as I used to, and when I fall down,

559
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 1: man it it it just keeps hurting the next day

560
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 1: and the next day. So yeah, it was definitely one

561
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 1: of those times I was like, yeah, I'm gonna I'm

562
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: gonna try something else. That's that's cool that you recognized

563
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 1: that and you were ready to leave on your own terms. Yeah, yeah,

564
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: I mean, and it was also one of those things,

565
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 1: you know, being a dad. It was, Man, I want

566
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 1: to see my family and I want to you know,

567
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: I want to go home at night and and I

568
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: want to look at It's like, well, I want to.

569
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 1: I want to try and retire, and I'm an inventor.

570
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 1: I've got multiple patents, and you know, nothing is better

571
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 1: to me. You know, spending time with my family is

572
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 1: the best thing. The second best thing is tinkering on

573
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 1: some new design or invention in my shop. And then

574
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 1: third is you know, is writing and doing stuff with

575
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 1: a ready Man. So yeah, tell us how you know

576
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 1: ready Man and the rat and all that stuff came about? Um,

577
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 1: what was that? All these kind of like the genesis

578
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 1: of you messing around in your garage with things. I mean,

579
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 1: how did that? How did all that happen? It was like,

580
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 1: I come from a family of of kind of mechanics

581
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: and tinkers, and so I guess it's kind of in

582
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 1: my DNA. And um, so we were on a target

583
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 1: one night, was an Afghanistan. We were on a target

584
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 1: and you know, we're very night biased, so we're always

585
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 1: working at night, and so essentially to kind of set

586
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 1: the stage for you, i'd be there'd be three or

587
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,959
Speaker 1: four American and advisors, and we'd have one to two

588
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 1: hundred Afghans that we would be lead, training and advising.

589
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: So we're very small, very very small elements that we're

590
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 1: running with these guys. So we'd run them through training

591
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 1: during the day. So we'd recruit these guys out of the

592
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 1: the mountains, run them through a condensed training cycle, and

593
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 1: then abouts the target packets that start coming in and

594
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 1: we'd say, okay, we go in. We'd kick into the

595
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 1: uh the planning process, and then as soon as it

596
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 1: started getting dark, it was like, okay, get your rifles

597
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 1: and we'd go hit targets with these guys. So one night,

598
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 1: we're going after a target that had some a q

599
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 1: h vt s in it, and we got compromised and

600
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 1: so the guy started shooting, you know, he had a

601
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 1: a k started shooting through the through the gate, hit

602
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 1: two of my Afghan commandos and the legs. So we

603
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 1: jumped up there and dragged those guys out a line

604
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 1: of fire, you know, while we're directing because the fights

605
00:32:55,480 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 1: on you know, and um so I one point I

606
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: looked down at the medics to make sure that these

607
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 1: guys were doing okay. So it was Afghan medics working

608
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 1: on Afghan commandos and guys that I had all trained,

609
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 1: me and the other advisors had all trained. And UM

610
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 1: I sat there and I vividly remember these these guys

611
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 1: having problems with the tourniquet that we were issued at

612
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 1: the time. You know, we were wearing gloves and we

613
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 1: were wearing m v g's. It was dark, very high stress.

614
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 1: You know, we're down in a ditch um and and

615
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 1: it just you know, it's like that snapshot in time.

616
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 1: I was like, kind of, that's interesting. And then you know,

617
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: went back and got you know, finished cleaning up the target,

618
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 1: and you know, and then later on those those same

619
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: guys that were wounded, we're working on a metavact forum

620
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 1: and you know, they were there trying to pull the

621
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 1: skin had gotten pulled up into the went onto the

622
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 1: uh you know, into the buckles and stuff, and so

623
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 1: they were trying to pull the the turning kids off

624
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 1: and they had saved their lives. And so, you know,

625
00:33:56,360 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 1: fast forward about three months later, I had rotated back

626
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 1: to the States and UM I'd usually come home, you know,

627
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 1: I do about a hundred and twenty days, you undred

628
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 1: and twenty days. I'd come home for about thirty days

629
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,319
Speaker 1: and then I'd go back over. So anyways, i'd come

630
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,399
Speaker 1: back home, and I was training some Air Force Prayer

631
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 1: Rescue and some pj's and a very high stress course

632
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:21,919
Speaker 1: there at the end of the pipeline and a lot

633
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 1: of simmunitions fire and and we were inducing casualties, right,

634
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 1: And so I was standing up on the catwalk and

635
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 1: we're like, hey, put a tourniquet on that man's leg,

636
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 1: put a tourniquet on that guy's arm. And uh. I

637
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 1: was sitting up on the cat while looking down at

638
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:40,279
Speaker 1: these pj's and they were having the same problems that

639
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 1: my Afghans were having. What type of tourniquets were these?

640
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 1: The cat tourniquet At the time, it was the one

641
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 1: we're issued. I don't I don't like to point in

642
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,360
Speaker 1: fingers at anybody. There was you know, we were issued

643
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 1: three or four at the time, and and you know,

644
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 1: I try not to point fingers, and so and I

645
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 1: just looked down and I saw these uh pj struggling

646
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 1: um wearing gloves, wearing m VG's high stress in the

647
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 1: same way, struggling the same way that my Afghans had.

648
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 1: And so at that point it was like Man, this

649
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 1: isn't this isn't a this isn't a training issue. This

650
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 1: is a design issue. And so that's when I started

651
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 1: down the path of like, man, is there anything else?

652
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,239
Speaker 1: I looked and couldn't find anything, and you know, and

653
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 1: then one night I was I was watching a TV

654
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 1: show of a of a little kid wrapping a rubber

655
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:33,760
Speaker 1: band around her finger, and the finger progressively turned blue.

656
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 1: And so that was a that was that epiphanal moment

657
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:38,840
Speaker 1: where it was like, wait a minute, why can't I

658
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 1: make up the width of a tourniquet with with circumferential

659
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 1: wraps and why can't I use elastic? And so I

660
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 1: went back and I found, you know a little while later,

661
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 1: you know, the Internet was really slow back then still

662
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,760
Speaker 1: and what year was this, Jeff, This was like oh seven,

663
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 1: six oh seven, and and so you know, there was

664
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 1: just limited that. You know, there's a ton of information

665
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 1: on the net now, it was limited back then and

666
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 1: stuff was slow. And anyways, I found a paper that

667
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,879
Speaker 1: was written by two surgeons and from World War Two,

668
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 1: and they advocated surgical tubing for for tourniquets, surgical tubing

669
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 1: wrapped multiple times. And so I was like, well, Okay,

670
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 1: there's there's some there's some evidence there. And then I

671
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 1: found a Canadian study that the Canadians had done where

672
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 1: they had tested a variety of tourniquets. This in the

673
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 1: Canadian the Canadian study was pre cat and pre softe

674
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,320
Speaker 1: tourniquet and so those were not tested in the study.

675
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 1: And and they and they had wrapped. They had found

676
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 1: that surgical tube being wrapped multiple times was the best

677
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 1: tourniquet that they had. And so it was like that

678
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:49,360
Speaker 1: moment where I was like, Okay, eureka, all I have

679
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:51,840
Speaker 1: to do is figure out a way to start the

680
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 1: tourniquet easier, because they had complained it was hard to

681
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:58,320
Speaker 1: start the surgical tubing and it was hard to finish

682
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: what's happen. I imagine it would be hard to tie

683
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,919
Speaker 1: off especially it was it was hard to tie off.

684
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,359
Speaker 1: It was you can't really do it one handed. And

685
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 1: so um so I started working. And because I've been

686
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 1: a scuba guy, I uh so the cleat that I

687
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 1: used now is the you know, the metal portion is

688
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 1: like a boat cleat. So it's a combination of a

689
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 1: boat cleat and a red devil, so an explosive reaching

690
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 1: use a little plastic piece. It's called the red devil,

691
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 1: the tie into your reaching charge, and so it's kind

692
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,439
Speaker 1: of a it's a combination. The inspiration was those two

693
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:35,239
Speaker 1: things meshed together and then the the trucker's hitched the

694
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 1: loop on the end that gives you the mechanical advantage

695
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 1: you know, was a not that geez we used like

696
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 1: all the time and the military time and time stuff

697
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 1: down and so boom after that it was born. And

698
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,360
Speaker 1: so we tested it and we're doing a lot of

699
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:54,479
Speaker 1: trauma training at the time, and tested it out there

700
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 1: and we were stopping arterial bleeds and moving the patient

701
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 1: before other teams that even begun move, turning the windless

702
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:04,919
Speaker 1: and so that's where it's like, Okay, I really got

703
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 1: something here. This is pretty cool. And so then so

704
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:10,840
Speaker 1: I didn't run into you know, conflicts and stuff. I

705
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 1: licensed it out to a defense contractor and then brought

706
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 1: that back after I, you know, stopped going overseas. So

707
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:22,879
Speaker 1: did uh, I mean, did this tourniquet start getting used

708
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 1: in a field environment? I mean, was was this something

709
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 1: that you were able to give to you know, Afghan

710
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 1: commandos or whoever else to to start using. Yeah, So

711
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:34,840
Speaker 1: the so the company that the company that had licensed

712
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 1: it from me, they don't exist anymore. But uh, it

713
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 1: was Blackheart International and we sent you know, they sent

714
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 1: thousands of these things overseas to the to the Iraqis

715
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 1: because you know, back then it was you know, Iraq

716
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 1: was going hard and heavy as well as to um

717
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 1: to Afghanistan, to the different indig programs that were going

718
00:38:56,040 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 1: on over there, and I imagine these things must have

719
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 1: seen action in the field, right, Oh yeah, yeah, we

720
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 1: we'd hear we'd hear reports. I mean, you can't. It's

721
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 1: trying to get info back from overseas, especially when you're

722
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,879
Speaker 1: dealing with you know, Afghans and Iraqis. Trying to get

723
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 1: info back was you know, it's always trial and tribulation,

724
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 1: right and so, but we definitely here where it's like, hey,

725
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:22,239
Speaker 1: they use your turn get on a guy and and

726
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 1: it worked and you know, the guys alive and and

727
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 1: so we get reports like that back. But it wasn't.

728
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 1: It wasn't until I released it domestically that you know,

729
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 1: we started getting you know, people would actually call us

730
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:37,399
Speaker 1: and say, hey, I just use the turn to get

731
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:39,879
Speaker 1: to save my life. That's really cool that, I mean,

732
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 1: that's got to be gratifying. How did how did that

733
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:47,360
Speaker 1: come about? And then when when black Heart their license expires,

734
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 1: you take back control of your invention and then you

735
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:55,400
Speaker 1: started marketing it domestically. Yeah, So it was about that

736
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:58,239
Speaker 1: time I was I wasn't going overseas anymore, and that's

737
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: you know, ready Man was ending up at that time,

738
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,359
Speaker 1: and Rats have been kind of going a little bit,

739
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 1: you know, and that was part of the reinvention of

740
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 1: oneself where it was learning social media. So going from

741
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 1: a life of amanimity to you essentially getting on social

742
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:16,360
Speaker 1: media to you know, social media is such a huge

743
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 1: marketing tool that's available and um, and so getting you know,

744
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 1: getting on there and and it started going out to

745
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:26,319
Speaker 1: folks at that time, like Turning Kids, Turney Kids are

746
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,319
Speaker 1: brand new in the domestic market. I mean we're only

747
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 1: talking you know, the last five six years. Five years,

748
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,319
Speaker 1: I mean five years ago, people were still saying, don't

749
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 1: use TURNI kids. You're going to use the lamb. It's

750
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:40,719
Speaker 1: a thing of last resort. And that's kind of like

751
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 1: what Jack had mentioned is like the tactics and the

752
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 1: change and in special operations up to now, like back

753
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 1: in the nineties, Um, the you know the trauma. If

754
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 1: you came upon somebody in trauma, then the protocol was

755
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:56,919
Speaker 1: two large bore I vs. Bolus the bags, which means

756
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:00,440
Speaker 1: squeeze the bags, get as much fluid into them as possible,

757
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,760
Speaker 1: and then turniquet is of last resort. Now fast forward

758
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:08,399
Speaker 1: and it's like there's no fluid resuscitation that's done. I mean,

759
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 1: it's only medication that's done. But but like lactated ringers

760
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:15,479
Speaker 1: or sobody, and none of that gets dumped into people

761
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 1: anymore because I mean because it doesn't work. And then

762
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,359
Speaker 1: and then tourniquets or the first resort. So we've seen

763
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 1: we've seen a complete reversal of what stuff had been.

764
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 1: So that was a big change, you know, in the

765
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:29,799
Speaker 1: in the medicine at least as well as you know

766
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 1: some of the tactics from overseas. Jack, I don't know

767
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 1: when you got in, but you remember, like pre war,

768
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 1: all the time we would spend learning how to do

769
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 1: I V s. It was, you know, do an ivy

770
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:42,880
Speaker 1: then when you got good at it, do an I

771
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:44,839
Speaker 1: V in a car when it's moving when I think

772
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 1: got good at that, and do I VS at night?

773
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:48,800
Speaker 1: And then do I VS. You know with n VGs

774
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: and just a ton of time spent learning how to

775
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 1: do I v S. But I came in in two

776
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:58,840
Speaker 1: thousand two, so the war was popping off two thousand

777
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:03,359
Speaker 1: three through RIP. So that was kind of my introduction

778
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 1: to you know, what, what do we call it at

779
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 1: that time, Ranger first Responder, I think RfR UM. And

780
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:12,840
Speaker 1: yet there's definitely quite a bit of focus on putting

781
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:15,879
Speaker 1: in a saline lock UM and I think they were

782
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 1: probably coming to grips at that time with what you

783
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:20,360
Speaker 1: were describing that, you know, we're putting in a saline

784
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 1: lock in case the veins and arteries collapse, so we

785
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 1: can introduce UM pharmaceuticals and so on if needed. UM.

786
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,360
Speaker 1: But you're right that there was that this attitude about

787
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 1: pumping the lactated ringer, as if that's going to replace

788
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:36,399
Speaker 1: blood loss, which you know, of course we all know

789
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 1: that it doesn't. Yeah, I mean the thought was, is

790
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:43,799
Speaker 1: you know, you're you're preventing hype of The idea was

791
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:45,919
Speaker 1: we know this is wrong now, but you're preventing hype

792
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 1: of limage shock because you're keeping the volume up in

793
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,319
Speaker 1: the bodies of the heart can keep pumping. And it

794
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 1: was actually I believe it was so calm. I got

795
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:55,720
Speaker 1: to find the study that they figured it out doing

796
00:42:56,360 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 1: tissue labs that that doing the fluid resuscitation and was

797
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:04,400
Speaker 1: was not doing anybody any favors. And to let the body,

798
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 1: you know, let the body kind of keep do what

799
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:10,439
Speaker 1: it needs to do to survive, and that slowing down

800
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 1: the heart rate actually isn't a bad thing, and letting

801
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 1: the letting the wound clot up rather than just flushing

802
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:19,359
Speaker 1: it with l rs, you know. And and then I mean,

803
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 1: I think the law enforcement community has had the same

804
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 1: like institutional rigidity or lack of lack of wanting to

805
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 1: accept the research. Well, yeah, and you know in law

806
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:34,359
Speaker 1: enforcement now, I mean, god bless them, they were they've

807
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 1: been a little bit behind. But you know, now there's

808
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 1: enough military guys have gotten out, have become cops. You know,

809
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:44,239
Speaker 1: there's great programs that are route that are advocating tourniquets now.

810
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 1: And I saw somewhere that they think in the last

811
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:51,320
Speaker 1: you know, half decade that police have started using tourniquets,

812
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 1: they've saved something like thirty lives just you know, because

813
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 1: the number the number one preventable cause of death on

814
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 1: the battlefield and in the civilian world is massive him

815
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 1: or just bleeding to death, so preventable cause of death.

816
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 1: And so turniquets definitely saved lives. You know, in the military,

817
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:12,880
Speaker 1: did a study tenure study, not one instance of limb

818
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 1: loss due to a due to a tourniquet or any

819
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:18,279
Speaker 1: of that stuff. And so they're they're definitely life saving devices.

820
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 1: And so when I get the phone calls from people,

821
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:24,320
Speaker 1: and it's like some of the most bizarre stuff you

822
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 1: would ever think. But when I get calls or emails

823
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 1: from people that say, hey, I just use your tourniquet

824
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 1: to save somebody's life, or you know, I used your

825
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:37,360
Speaker 1: tourniquet to save my own life, it's unbelievably humbling. I

826
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:39,720
Speaker 1: mean it really, it's one of those moments where it's like, Okay,

827
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 1: it's all worth it. I mean, this person is alive.

828
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:44,799
Speaker 1: I just talked to a guy two days ago that

829
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 1: he has a condition and he unexpectedly passes out. He

830
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 1: was doing the dishes and passed out, woke up, and

831
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:58,799
Speaker 1: he was spraying blood all over the counters, and he

832
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 1: had run a stake knife through his arm wind fell down,

833
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 1: slice the ordery and he just so happened to have

834
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 1: my tourniquet on him, and he threw it on and

835
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 1: wrapped it over and so he on his you know,

836
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 1: as his right arm was when he got stabbed and

837
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 1: he's right handed, so wrapped it on there and he

838
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:17,640
Speaker 1: called me to thank me. It's like your turn to

839
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:19,400
Speaker 1: get saved my life. Man. I was like, now you

840
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 1: saved your life that she's in a tool. So stuff

841
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:26,879
Speaker 1: like that is like, man, that's very cool. Well, not

842
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 1: to poke the bear too much, but I do know

843
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:32,840
Speaker 1: that there has been some controversy around these turn of

844
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:34,880
Speaker 1: kids also, And I don't know if you want to

845
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:37,839
Speaker 1: get into that or talk about it too much, um,

846
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 1: but I know there's you know, some drama out there. Yeah.

847
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 1: I think I think any time you buck the paradigm,

848
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 1: you know, you're you're going to have people that that

849
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 1: are going to fight you. And and you know, and

850
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 1: we see that in I mean, you see that in

851
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:58,799
Speaker 1: in anything, do you know what I mean? And it's

852
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:01,800
Speaker 1: I mean, they they back in the day, they fought

853
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:05,760
Speaker 1: the you know, they fought the automobile coming out because

854
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,359
Speaker 1: you know they were the thought was they're never going

855
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 1: to be able to replace horses. Well, I mean, look

856
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 1: where that all turn and so I think anytime you've

857
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 1: got a new device, and also because mine is so

858
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 1: different from the you know what the what the paradigm

859
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:26,800
Speaker 1: dictates the tourniquets should look like that. Um, for some folks,

860
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 1: it's just it's like no, they don't they don't want

861
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:31,759
Speaker 1: to change, they don't want to they don't want to listen.

862
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 1: And that's okay, and that's fine. I mean, the thing

863
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:38,839
Speaker 1: that I steadfastly tell people is, look, there's a lot

864
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 1: of great tourniquets out on the market. Now. It's like,

865
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:45,239
Speaker 1: find one, learn how to use them all. If you're

866
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 1: an instructor, teach them all because you never know what

867
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 1: you're going to run into out there. But then and

868
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:53,399
Speaker 1: but then have one with you, have it in your

869
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 1: have your medikit, and know how to use it. And

870
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:57,920
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter if it's mine, it can be. You know,

871
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: there's empty number of other great tourniquets that are out there.

872
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:05,759
Speaker 1: Have one of those. Because tourniquets save lives. And so

873
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:09,840
Speaker 1: you know, we're big supporters. We support organizations that that

874
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:12,759
Speaker 1: actually don't even teach our tourniquet. And it's like, you

875
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 1: know what my mission is to try and get the

876
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:18,040
Speaker 1: word out and help as many people as possible. So

877
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 1: that's what I'm concerned about. But you know, God forgive

878
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,759
Speaker 1: me for saying this as a former eighteen bravo. But

879
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 1: the reality too is that I mean in the in

880
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:32,240
Speaker 1: the gun world, the as I'm a Second Amendment supporter

881
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 1: as well, and I enjoy shooting guns, but I mean

882
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:38,279
Speaker 1: in the tactical community as it were. I mean there's

883
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 1: a lot of weird cats out there too. Uh, We're

884
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 1: an eclectic group of people, to be polite about it,

885
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:48,879
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, there are, as you I think

886
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:51,240
Speaker 1: you point out a little bit, we're setting our ways,

887
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 1: and there are guns that come around that's say, are

888
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:56,879
Speaker 1: better than the M for a rifle, but we don't

889
00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 1: necessarily want to use them because it's not what we're

890
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:04,759
Speaker 1: used to. Yeah, And that's kind of like me as

891
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 1: an inventor. I'm you know, I'm an inventor, and then

892
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:11,440
Speaker 1: I'm firmly in the survival you know, emergency preparedness space,

893
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:15,879
Speaker 1: which by you know, by nature means I question everything right.

894
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:19,440
Speaker 1: And then when I'm working with you know, I haven't

895
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:22,719
Speaker 1: been in the CT unit working with ended, you know,

896
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:25,399
Speaker 1: for thirteen years, and it's like me and a few

897
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:28,600
Speaker 1: other dudes. You've got to get pretty creative to try

898
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 1: and solve some of the solutions for problems because you

899
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:35,280
Speaker 1: don't always get what you want. And so it's like, Okay,

900
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:37,840
Speaker 1: how can I make this thing work for different stuff?

901
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:40,719
Speaker 1: And so and and that's where. So for me, I'm

902
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:42,920
Speaker 1: known as the A K guy over there because I

903
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 1: carried an A K. You know, I could have carried

904
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:47,720
Speaker 1: whatever I wanted in that unit, but but I carried

905
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:50,319
Speaker 1: an A K for my entire time and use that

906
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 1: and fell in love with it, and it just so happened.

907
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 1: And two thousand and two I was part of the

908
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 1: SOCOM study that was spun up to disprove the A K,

909
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 1: but it ended up proving the A K because at

910
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:05,719
Speaker 1: that time, the SR forty seven, which was an IN

911
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 1: four variant that would shoot then they only made a

912
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:13,240
Speaker 1: couple of those. Yeah, yeah, I'm the guy that killed

913
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 1: that program. So yeah, well, wasn't the concept behind it?

914
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:19,920
Speaker 1: This is really interesting. It wasn't the concept behind it

915
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:23,319
Speaker 1: that we were perhaps going to be clear in cave

916
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 1: complexes in Afghanistan and going in so deep that we

917
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 1: may need to pick up the enemy's ammunition and use

918
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:32,400
Speaker 1: it in our weapon. It was. And and so the

919
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 1: whole story is there had been testing that was done

920
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:38,839
Speaker 1: on the SR forty seven. I was not on the

921
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 1: SR forty seven testing, however, I'm very good friends with

922
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:46,359
Speaker 1: the guys that were on it. And the rifle was

923
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:50,920
Speaker 1: not working. It was, I mean, barrels were falling off,

924
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 1: it was. The rifle was just it was not working.

925
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:57,720
Speaker 1: And they so they wrote up a very scathing review

926
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:01,440
Speaker 1: on it, and so um the guys that were in

927
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:03,880
Speaker 1: charge of the program went to the colonel that was

928
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:07,320
Speaker 1: you know, basically signing the checks for research and development,

929
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:11,399
Speaker 1: said hey, we need more money to continue developing this rifle.

930
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:14,800
Speaker 1: The seven nine burns really hot, and so you've got it.

931
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 1: It's it's one of those enigmas that folks are constantly

932
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 1: trying to figure out. Frank Plum up in Washington State

933
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:24,560
Speaker 1: actually kind of figured it out with his with his

934
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:27,759
Speaker 1: rifle that he designed up there. It's a it's a

935
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:29,960
Speaker 1: version of it's kind of like a scar only a

936
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 1: little bit different, and it shoots the seven nine and

937
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:36,080
Speaker 1: so it burns very hot. So what happened was they

938
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:38,760
Speaker 1: were they were going through this process trying to trying

939
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 1: to figure this thing out. The colonel said, well, why

940
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:44,000
Speaker 1: don't we just use a case. We're talking about battlefield recovery.

941
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:46,800
Speaker 1: Why don't we just use a case and so and

942
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:48,920
Speaker 1: and and mind you, the s R forty seven was

943
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 1: five thousand dollars a copy at that time, and so

944
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 1: and plus all this time for T and A and

945
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 1: all of that stuff, and so you know, he the

946
00:50:57,080 --> 00:51:00,239
Speaker 1: colonel got this, got the answer of like, well, a days,

947
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:04,720
Speaker 1: they're not accurate, and they you know, they have horrible ergonomics,

948
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:08,400
Speaker 1: and you know, they get too hot. And so the

949
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:12,880
Speaker 1: colonel was said, Okay, show me the showing me the studies.

950
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 1: Show me the studies that that say what you're saying.

951
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 1: So these guys scoured and could not find any incerted

952
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 1: data on the a K. And so he was like,

953
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:27,240
Speaker 1: I'm not signing one more cent over until you guys

954
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:29,680
Speaker 1: get me some data that shows that the A K

955
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:32,360
Speaker 1: isn't up to snuff and that we need to continue

956
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:36,399
Speaker 1: developing SR. So in steps Jeff and then another guy

957
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:39,319
Speaker 1: that was from range of battalion, Craig and US an

958
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:42,319
Speaker 1: E seven out of a range of battalion, and so

959
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 1: we started shooting. It was three or four days days,

960
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:47,360
Speaker 1: I'd have to go back and look at my notes

961
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:49,840
Speaker 1: and we and the test was set up to fail.

962
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:52,080
Speaker 1: So the rifles that we got were filthy. They look

963
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:54,319
Speaker 1: like they've been pulled out of a dumpster. They were

964
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 1: chicomft s is with folding stocks. We're testing reliability and

965
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:02,520
Speaker 1: accuracy at the same time, which anybody listening knows you

966
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:05,440
Speaker 1: would never do that. So we weren't cleaning out the

967
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:07,960
Speaker 1: lands and grooves or anything, I mean, and we were

968
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:11,439
Speaker 1: and we were also testing the feasibility of the sop

969
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:13,799
Speaker 1: mod kit on the rifle at the time too. Well

970
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 1: there at that time there were no rails for a

971
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:19,880
Speaker 1: ks and so we were like the crane. The guys

972
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:21,960
Speaker 1: that were out there running the study from crane and

973
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:26,280
Speaker 1: kind of like spot welded some rails on their covers

974
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:28,279
Speaker 1: and stuff, and since we weren't cleaning it, we just

975
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:34,720
Speaker 1: ziped item down. So by the end of the second

976
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:37,560
Speaker 1: day and we had a c W five that was

977
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:41,839
Speaker 1: validating the test and um and at that time, I'm

978
00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:45,200
Speaker 1: Jack will know this, there were like five CW five's

979
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:48,759
Speaker 1: and the entire four CW fives were brand new and

980
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 1: they were like on the same level as a general officer,

981
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:53,440
Speaker 1: and so we had a CW five that was a

982
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:56,560
Speaker 1: Vietnam VET. It was it was validating the testing. We

983
00:52:56,560 --> 00:53:00,120
Speaker 1: We were tracking where every single round that we shot

984
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:05,080
Speaker 1: where it went, and throughout the process we essentially disproved

985
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:08,480
Speaker 1: the all of the accuracy stuff. It was like, now,

986
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:11,600
Speaker 1: these these rifles are actually very accurate. You just have

987
00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:15,320
Speaker 1: this deer room correctly, but these are actually very accurate.

988
00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:18,279
Speaker 1: The ergonomics if you look at the rifle and its totality,

989
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:23,520
Speaker 1: it's actually very ergonomic. Um And I mean it's because

990
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:27,080
Speaker 1: and it's designed you as a bravo understand this. It's

991
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 1: designed that you can hand that rifle to a conscript

992
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 1: who doesn't know anything, but they could still keep up

993
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:35,680
Speaker 1: with who they thought they were going to have to

994
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:39,799
Speaker 1: fight United States military, with their experience having been they

995
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 1: had just fought the often SS on the Eastern Front,

996
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:46,759
Speaker 1: which was the finest mechanized infantry the world had ever

997
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:50,200
Speaker 1: seen at that time, and so they were like lessons

998
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 1: of war from the past. How do we get these

999
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:55,319
Speaker 1: peasants and make them so that they can keep up

1000
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:57,719
Speaker 1: with what we expect the Americans are going to be like?

1001
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 1: And so I'm I'm actually I'm a big fan of

1002
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:04,239
Speaker 1: the of the A K and um and it's just

1003
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:09,480
Speaker 1: it's it's brilliance in design and and just so many,

1004
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:12,759
Speaker 1: so many different myths about it that um, you know,

1005
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:15,560
Speaker 1: it's always fun for I could talk for ages eight.

1006
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:19,319
Speaker 1: But so that's where that that's where that came from.

1007
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:22,200
Speaker 1: And consequently, because I'm known as the A K Guy,

1008
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:25,319
Speaker 1: had written a blog article that was called the A

1009
00:54:25,600 --> 00:54:30,879
Speaker 1: R The R platform sucks for preppers and and and

1010
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:34,400
Speaker 1: you would have thought that I had liked, like earned

1011
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:37,360
Speaker 1: the church to the ground. You know. It's like I

1012
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:40,279
Speaker 1: got so much hate mail from that, and I was like, look,

1013
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:43,880
Speaker 1: you guys, I said an A our platform sucks for preppers,

1014
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 1: you know, because I was I was looking at the

1015
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 1: prepper market. But whenever I write articles, what I'm trying

1016
00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:52,680
Speaker 1: to do is get people to think. It's like, look,

1017
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:56,680
Speaker 1: don't don't just pick up something because the military said

1018
00:54:56,719 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 1: it's good enough, or it's good enough. It's good enough

1019
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:01,320
Speaker 1: for the military, so I've gone it's like, well, your civilian,

1020
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:03,759
Speaker 1: it may not be good enough for you. So let's

1021
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:06,719
Speaker 1: we're you know, going back into that I'm an SF

1022
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:09,160
Speaker 1: guy where it's like I question everything and it's like, well,

1023
00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:11,840
Speaker 1: is it is it the is it the point? And

1024
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:13,799
Speaker 1: but yeah, of course that was one of those things

1025
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:16,520
Speaker 1: that I'll go as far as to say that Kalashnikov

1026
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:20,160
Speaker 1: is my favorite rifle, probably the best rifle out there. Well,

1027
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:22,200
Speaker 1: I shouldn't say it's the best. Depends on how we're

1028
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:24,320
Speaker 1: going to measure that. Of course, there are better rifles

1029
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:26,960
Speaker 1: out there for you know, like a special mission unit

1030
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:29,680
Speaker 1: to use for counter terrorism operations and things like that.

1031
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:32,839
Speaker 1: But if you can only choose one, and especially for

1032
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 1: u w unconventional warfare missions where you're not going to

1033
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:41,800
Speaker 1: find you know, six point five or whatever wazoo exotic

1034
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:43,799
Speaker 1: caliber of the ammunition. You're not going to find it

1035
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:46,560
Speaker 1: out in the battle space for you know, battlefield recovery.

1036
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:48,920
Speaker 1: I mean, I think the Kalashnikov is where it's at

1037
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:52,879
Speaker 1: to this day. Well, and that's I agree with you

1038
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 1: and that and that's why I mean, there's there's bullets

1039
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:59,560
Speaker 1: and guns like all over. I forget how many millions

1040
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:03,000
Speaker 1: of those things that have been produced. And and for

1041
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:06,839
Speaker 1: me to working with indig Force, it was it was

1042
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:10,440
Speaker 1: it was a confidence and equipment right, and so I

1043
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:11,880
Speaker 1: had to be able to get down there when I

1044
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:14,439
Speaker 1: was teaching these guys how to shoot and all that

1045
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:16,880
Speaker 1: I had to be able to manipulate it better than

1046
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:18,719
Speaker 1: they could. I had to be able to shoot more

1047
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:22,440
Speaker 1: accurately than they could. So that because you're constantly in

1048
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:27,080
Speaker 1: in Special Forces that Jack knows this, but you're constantly

1049
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:32,120
Speaker 1: winning rapport and maintaining report and relationships of trust because

1050
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:36,480
Speaker 1: trust is everything when you're talking to these guys and

1051
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:38,920
Speaker 1: and trying to get them to do I mean, you're

1052
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:40,759
Speaker 1: trying to talk to these guys and are risking their

1053
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:44,840
Speaker 1: lives for you, and so rapport is like really important.

1054
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:49,560
Speaker 1: And running around with a match grade Stoner rifle and

1055
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:52,320
Speaker 1: being able to outshoot them, you're not you're not impressing,

1056
00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:55,799
Speaker 1: but but getting an a K the same one that

1057
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:58,719
Speaker 1: came out of their arms room and then going out

1058
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 1: onto the going out on the range in and out

1059
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:04,600
Speaker 1: shooting them. That now all of a sudden, you've you've

1060
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:06,520
Speaker 1: built apport, like, Okay, I'll listen to this guy because

1061
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:09,399
Speaker 1: he knows what he's talking about. Yeah, I can see though,

1062
00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:12,279
Speaker 1: you know, telling a bunch of gun brows that their

1063
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:15,759
Speaker 1: M four sucks, that I can ruffle some feathers. I

1064
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:20,120
Speaker 1: can see that it did it did and and it's

1065
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:22,840
Speaker 1: like at the bottom we cited you know, three or

1066
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:26,160
Speaker 1: four studies from the Marines that you know, like on

1067
00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:28,720
Speaker 1: the periphery agreed with what I was saying. But again

1068
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:31,320
Speaker 1: it was it was like, look, if you're if you're

1069
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:35,040
Speaker 1: a survivalist or you're in a survival or something and

1070
00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:37,919
Speaker 1: you live in you know, if you live out here

1071
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:41,080
Speaker 1: in Utah, you know, five that may not be the

1072
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:44,680
Speaker 1: best choice for you. You made you probably need to

1073
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:46,720
Speaker 1: step it up to a seven six two by fifty

1074
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:49,960
Speaker 1: one at least so you can reach out and you know,

1075
00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:53,360
Speaker 1: touch some stuff or you know. It was there was

1076
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:56,360
Speaker 1: some great discussion that took place intermixed with all of

1077
00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:59,440
Speaker 1: the stuff where it sounded like I had called somebody's

1078
00:57:59,480 --> 00:58:03,920
Speaker 1: mom or ostitute. But I mean, but uh, but there

1079
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:06,560
Speaker 1: was you know, one guy made a fantastic argument for

1080
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:10,440
Speaker 1: twelve gage shotgun and just the versatility and and all

1081
00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:12,080
Speaker 1: of that, And that was the whole point of that

1082
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 1: of that article was, Hey, let's think, let's question, let's

1083
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:18,280
Speaker 1: is it is it really the best thing for you

1084
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:22,640
Speaker 1: guys to use, and if it is, why and so

1085
00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:25,760
Speaker 1: so so Beyond that article, you've also written quite a

1086
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:28,800
Speaker 1: few fiction books. As I said in series. The latest

1087
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:31,600
Speaker 1: one out now is The Last Air Force One. Uh.

1088
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:33,600
Speaker 1: And your co writer on that, along with a lot

1089
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:35,640
Speaker 1: of stuff is Jason Ross. How did you get into

1090
00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:40,240
Speaker 1: the field of writing military thrillers? So, so Jason is

1091
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:44,720
Speaker 1: he's my business partner with on ready Man and he,

1092
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:49,040
Speaker 1: you know, we were sitting around one night talking and

1093
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:51,600
Speaker 1: I mean this was years ago, a few four years ago,

1094
00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:54,760
Speaker 1: three years ago, and we're sitting around talking, you know,

1095
00:58:54,840 --> 00:58:57,280
Speaker 1: and like all good discussions, it was over some good

1096
00:58:57,280 --> 00:59:00,640
Speaker 1: bourbon and m he had asked. He was like, hey,

1097
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:03,439
Speaker 1: you know, he'd never been in the military's never never

1098
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:08,640
Speaker 1: been a law enforcement but he's very accomplished outdoorsman. And

1099
00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:11,200
Speaker 1: he said, hey, how do you think the world, how

1100
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 1: do you think the world could stumble? How do you

1101
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:16,320
Speaker 1: think you know, we could run into problems? And so

1102
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:18,200
Speaker 1: you know, of course I was like, well, I'll tell

1103
00:59:18,200 --> 00:59:21,680
Speaker 1: you how I think it could happen. And um, and

1104
00:59:21,720 --> 00:59:24,480
Speaker 1: so we started having this what if discussion and it

1105
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:26,439
Speaker 1: was well, if this happened, what do you think would

1106
00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:28,040
Speaker 1: happened from there? And if this happened, what do you

1107
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:31,439
Speaker 1: think from there? And and at some point I had

1108
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:35,600
Speaker 1: I had actually started writing a fiction novel when I

1109
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:39,600
Speaker 1: was um in Afghanistan, and it was it was you know,

1110
00:59:39,640 --> 00:59:41,680
Speaker 1: it's got monsters and stuff in it, and of course

1111
00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:44,600
Speaker 1: it's about a special Forces guy that all the sudden

1112
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:46,960
Speaker 1: finds out that monsters are real and he becomes a

1113
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:50,440
Speaker 1: bounty hunter for for monsters. Well, I had started writing

1114
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:53,680
Speaker 1: that because it was, you know, essentially Catharsis. While I

1115
00:59:53,720 --> 00:59:59,520
Speaker 1: was I'd come back from assaults and your your spun

1116
00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:03,520
Speaker 1: up and um, so it's like, you know, you can't drink,

1117
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:05,760
Speaker 1: you know, you can only work out so much. It

1118
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:07,680
Speaker 1: was about three o'clock in the morning, so you couldn't

1119
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:10,080
Speaker 1: really go run, and so it was like, how do

1120
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:15,560
Speaker 1: I how do I depressurize from you know, from just

1121
01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:19,920
Speaker 1: coming off these assaults. And so at one point my

1122
01:00:19,960 --> 01:00:22,320
Speaker 1: brother had mentioned to me about a Vietnam vet that

1123
01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:25,440
Speaker 1: I think you were at the Jack Reaper series about

1124
01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:28,080
Speaker 1: this guy had been in Vietnam and he had started

1125
01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:30,640
Speaker 1: writing as a way to kind of off gas to

1126
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:33,320
Speaker 1: pressure down. And so I was like, well, I'll try it,

1127
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:35,680
Speaker 1: and I fell in love with it. I mean, because

1128
01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:38,400
Speaker 1: you just you just create your own world and you

1129
01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:41,680
Speaker 1: get lost in the I'm a very visual kind of guy.

1130
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:44,520
Speaker 1: Like when I'm inventing something, I can do cat in

1131
01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:47,200
Speaker 1: my head and spin it around and look at it

1132
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:50,480
Speaker 1: and stuff. And so when I started writing this book,

1133
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:55,080
Speaker 1: it was it was like unbelievably therapeutic in that it

1134
01:00:55,120 --> 01:00:57,320
Speaker 1: was I could just get lost in this world of

1135
01:00:57,400 --> 01:00:59,800
Speaker 1: my own making and then um and then you know,

1136
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:01,480
Speaker 1: I'd get tired and then I'd go to bed. So

1137
01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:05,120
Speaker 1: I gave that. I gave that manuscript that book hasn't

1138
01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:07,960
Speaker 1: been published yet and you and I gave it to

1139
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:10,720
Speaker 1: my business partner, Jason, and I said, hey, read this,

1140
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:13,880
Speaker 1: and he was like, man, we could We could write

1141
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:16,240
Speaker 1: a novel about the end of the world, about all

1142
01:01:16,240 --> 01:01:18,280
Speaker 1: this stuff we've been talking about. And I was like, yeah,

1143
01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:21,280
Speaker 1: you're right, we should do that, and so we started

1144
01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:24,760
Speaker 1: hammering it out. So that's Black Autumn and Black automn

1145
01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:27,520
Speaker 1: is a big war gaming exercise. That's it. So it was,

1146
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:30,560
Speaker 1: you know, it was the initial intel of the battlefield

1147
01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:32,840
Speaker 1: of what we think, what how we thought the world

1148
01:01:32,840 --> 01:01:36,280
Speaker 1: could stumble, what would happen here in the United States

1149
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:39,040
Speaker 1: as well as you know here, and you taught how

1150
01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:41,520
Speaker 1: we would react to it. And it was this big

1151
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:44,680
Speaker 1: war gaming exercise that we went through and we had

1152
01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:48,280
Speaker 1: so much fun doing it. Um we're like, well, let's

1153
01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:51,720
Speaker 1: let's let's get this published. We went to the publisher

1154
01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:54,520
Speaker 1: and they were and they said, you guys have got

1155
01:01:54,680 --> 01:01:56,720
Speaker 1: way too much in your book. You get to chop

1156
01:01:56,800 --> 01:01:59,960
Speaker 1: out about a third of it. And so we're like, okay,

1157
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:02,400
Speaker 1: So we chopped out a third of the book and

1158
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:06,440
Speaker 1: that became Black Autumn Travelers. That's for sale. So it's

1159
01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:09,760
Speaker 1: about it's about three of the characters that are trying

1160
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:12,600
Speaker 1: to get back to Utah and it and it fills

1161
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:14,720
Speaker 1: in some of the gaps of what we think would

1162
01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:17,480
Speaker 1: be happening in the rest of the United States. And

1163
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:19,720
Speaker 1: then we've got so many people that we're saying, man,

1164
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:22,320
Speaker 1: it would be really cool to get more idea of

1165
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:25,040
Speaker 1: what's going on in the world. And so we wrote

1166
01:02:26,120 --> 01:02:28,360
Speaker 1: Black automn The Last Air Force One, and so that's

1167
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:30,880
Speaker 1: essentially the President of the United States is an Air

1168
01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:33,680
Speaker 1: Force one and he's basically flying around the United States

1169
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:37,120
Speaker 1: because there's nowhere safe form to land, and he's getting

1170
01:02:37,120 --> 01:02:40,000
Speaker 1: all these intel reports as the you know, as the

1171
01:02:40,040 --> 01:02:43,680
Speaker 1: country starts to to come apart at the seams, and

1172
01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:46,080
Speaker 1: we're actually and so those are all companion novels. Were

1173
01:02:46,080 --> 01:02:48,720
Speaker 1: actually in the middle of writing two more companion novels,

1174
01:02:49,560 --> 01:02:53,640
Speaker 1: Black Automn conkyadors Um, which is about the cartel and

1175
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:56,280
Speaker 1: what we think would happen with them, as well as

1176
01:02:56,600 --> 01:03:00,200
Speaker 1: Black Automn Gun Slingers, where it's about an individual that

1177
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:03,240
Speaker 1: helps tie a bunch of this stuff together. And then

1178
01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:07,040
Speaker 1: the sequel to Black autom which is White Wasteland, is

1179
01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:11,840
Speaker 1: actually in the editing process right now. So it's awesome,

1180
01:03:11,880 --> 01:03:15,600
Speaker 1: So spun it off into a whole series. Yeah, we have,

1181
01:03:15,720 --> 01:03:18,360
Speaker 1: and then we actually with a with a Readyman crew.

1182
01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:22,200
Speaker 1: We actually opened it up to some of the other

1183
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:25,200
Speaker 1: folks that are you know, that are following Ready Man

1184
01:03:25,320 --> 01:03:27,640
Speaker 1: and it's like, hey, do you want to write about

1185
01:03:27,640 --> 01:03:31,400
Speaker 1: the Black Automn universe, And so we're using this you know,

1186
01:03:31,400 --> 01:03:34,640
Speaker 1: it's mostly Jason, but we're big on helping you know,

1187
01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:39,160
Speaker 1: veterans or anybody that wants to start off on entrepreneurial efforts.

1188
01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:41,760
Speaker 1: And it's like, if you want to write, then then

1189
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:44,520
Speaker 1: we'll help you and we'll help you with the editing process,

1190
01:03:44,560 --> 01:03:47,440
Speaker 1: will help you the idea, and here you can write

1191
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:50,080
Speaker 1: about the Black Autumn, you know, right about the Black

1192
01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:53,880
Speaker 1: automn universe, and that kind of gives you the foundation

1193
01:03:53,960 --> 01:03:55,880
Speaker 1: that you can then fill in the gaps of what

1194
01:03:55,920 --> 01:03:59,480
Speaker 1: you're doing for your own personal story. And so we're

1195
01:03:59,480 --> 01:04:02,439
Speaker 1: pushing that at right now to you know, essentially, it's

1196
01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:06,800
Speaker 1: helping helping out other young budding authors. We've got about

1197
01:04:06,840 --> 01:04:09,080
Speaker 1: four of them now that are that are veterans that

1198
01:04:09,080 --> 01:04:13,160
Speaker 1: are jumping in there in writing stuff. So it's it's

1199
01:04:13,200 --> 01:04:15,680
Speaker 1: really cool. That's awesome. Man's that's a dream come true.

1200
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:19,600
Speaker 1: Really yeah. I mean it's a lot of work. Writing

1201
01:04:19,600 --> 01:04:22,720
Speaker 1: a book is no small you know, no small effort.

1202
01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:25,919
Speaker 1: And you know, and I applaud Jason, you know, he's

1203
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:29,320
Speaker 1: the he's the engine behind it. That's constantly he's like, hey,

1204
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:31,440
Speaker 1: you gotta you gotta write, you gotta edit, you gotta right,

1205
01:04:31,480 --> 01:04:33,560
Speaker 1: you gotta edit because I've got about a billion things

1206
01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:37,880
Speaker 1: going on, and so but but it's it is, it is.

1207
01:04:38,040 --> 01:04:41,800
Speaker 1: It's a blast. And and again it's just that from

1208
01:04:41,840 --> 01:04:45,360
Speaker 1: the from the day to day day stress of business

1209
01:04:45,400 --> 01:04:48,960
Speaker 1: and work and job and social media, it's like, Okay,

1210
01:04:49,320 --> 01:04:52,400
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna escape into the black Autumn world

1211
01:04:52,520 --> 01:04:54,920
Speaker 1: for a little while and then uh, you know, you

1212
01:04:55,040 --> 01:04:57,200
Speaker 1: come back out of it, You're like, Okay, I'm feeling

1213
01:04:57,240 --> 01:04:59,280
Speaker 1: I'm feeling a lot better. No, that's really cool that

1214
01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:02,040
Speaker 1: you have that out it, And I totally understand what

1215
01:05:02,080 --> 01:05:05,800
Speaker 1: you're saying, and I think, uh, it's true for It's

1216
01:05:05,800 --> 01:05:08,760
Speaker 1: definitely true of veterans um and people who live in

1217
01:05:08,760 --> 01:05:11,440
Speaker 1: that they're in that headspace of you know, war and

1218
01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:14,200
Speaker 1: combat all the time and trying to reconcile those things

1219
01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:16,040
Speaker 1: when they come home. But I'm sure it's also true

1220
01:05:16,040 --> 01:05:18,480
Speaker 1: for a lot of people experiencing just the day to

1221
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:21,880
Speaker 1: day stress and you know, all the consternation you hear

1222
01:05:21,920 --> 01:05:25,600
Speaker 1: about social media and you know, twenty four hour news cycle,

1223
01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:27,240
Speaker 1: Like there there has to be some kind of a

1224
01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:28,920
Speaker 1: hobby or some kind of place where you can just

1225
01:05:29,040 --> 01:05:31,120
Speaker 1: kind of step aside from all of that, even if

1226
01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:36,360
Speaker 1: it's just for a few hours. Absolutely totally totally agree

1227
01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:38,280
Speaker 1: with you. And it doesn't have to be fiction. I

1228
01:05:38,280 --> 01:05:41,200
Speaker 1: mean fictions and an escape. But you know, I wrote

1229
01:05:41,240 --> 01:05:46,360
Speaker 1: the fourteenth edition for Stackpoles Combat Field Leaders Guide that

1230
01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:48,640
Speaker 1: was that was a lot of fun because it just

1231
01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:53,040
Speaker 1: really had gave this purpose of going through and studying

1232
01:05:53,080 --> 01:05:55,720
Speaker 1: and finding the latest and greatest with the knowledge that

1233
01:05:56,200 --> 01:05:58,880
Speaker 1: you know, young young n c O s and officers

1234
01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:00,960
Speaker 1: were going to be reading this and looking at it

1235
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:03,520
Speaker 1: as a means for you know, how they were going

1236
01:06:03,560 --> 01:06:07,520
Speaker 1: to trade late, lead and train their soldiers. And then

1237
01:06:07,720 --> 01:06:10,400
Speaker 1: um and then also like my the one that I

1238
01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:13,880
Speaker 1: had written on the Small Unit leaders Planning Guide, which

1239
01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:17,800
Speaker 1: is essentially a checklist on how to do warning order,

1240
01:06:17,840 --> 01:06:22,200
Speaker 1: operations order and FRAGO and then the coordination checklist that

1241
01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:25,720
Speaker 1: goes along with that, and and you know, it was

1242
01:06:25,800 --> 01:06:28,200
Speaker 1: just it was I think that was actually the first

1243
01:06:28,200 --> 01:06:30,040
Speaker 1: one that was the first one. The Small Unit Leader's

1244
01:06:30,040 --> 01:06:32,640
Speaker 1: Planning Guide was the first one that I had written,

1245
01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:35,120
Speaker 1: and then the Combat Field Leader's Guide was the second

1246
01:06:35,200 --> 01:06:37,840
Speaker 1: one that I had written. But but it was definitely

1247
01:06:38,920 --> 01:06:41,480
Speaker 1: it was it served as Okay, I've got I've got

1248
01:06:41,480 --> 01:06:44,480
Speaker 1: this purpose. And I think so many veterans now I

1249
01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:47,720
Speaker 1: get I get a bunch of a bunch of vets

1250
01:06:47,760 --> 01:06:50,480
Speaker 1: and even some civilians now that they come by my

1251
01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:53,400
Speaker 1: office and they're like, hey, you know, I've heard that

1252
01:06:54,080 --> 01:06:56,800
Speaker 1: you had a lot of experience in combat and you

1253
01:06:56,800 --> 01:06:59,360
Speaker 1: you seem like you're really well adjusted. Can I talk

1254
01:06:59,440 --> 01:07:02,200
Speaker 1: to you about issues that I'm having? And so I

1255
01:07:02,280 --> 01:07:06,120
Speaker 1: take time, you know, probably two or three times a month,

1256
01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:10,600
Speaker 1: and with vets and civilians, and you know, when they

1257
01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:12,640
Speaker 1: come in and they were like, hey, I just want

1258
01:07:12,640 --> 01:07:15,000
Speaker 1: to talk to you and pick your brain and and

1259
01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:17,480
Speaker 1: I think it's this purpose. You know, is a veteran,

1260
01:07:17,920 --> 01:07:21,240
Speaker 1: it's really easy to lose purpose. And what I mean

1261
01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:23,840
Speaker 1: by that is we come from a culture of of

1262
01:07:23,920 --> 01:07:28,600
Speaker 1: constant improvement and constant mentoring, constantly being mentored and constantly

1263
01:07:28,920 --> 01:07:32,360
Speaker 1: mentoring somebody below us and we and it's we're always

1264
01:07:32,440 --> 01:07:36,120
Speaker 1: looking for improvement and limiting the waste. You know. It's

1265
01:07:36,200 --> 01:07:40,000
Speaker 1: this constant improvement and whether that's your PT score or

1266
01:07:40,320 --> 01:07:44,880
Speaker 1: correspondence courses or whatever, that is where you're you're going

1267
01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:47,120
Speaker 1: through and you've got this job, you know, the mission

1268
01:07:47,640 --> 01:07:50,520
Speaker 1: of what you've got to work for. And I think

1269
01:07:50,600 --> 01:07:52,640
Speaker 1: and then you get out of the military and you're

1270
01:07:52,840 --> 01:07:56,480
Speaker 1: like essentially in free fall, and nobody cares and nobody's

1271
01:07:56,880 --> 01:07:59,160
Speaker 1: nobody's gonna mention you, and nobody's gonna take the time.

1272
01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:01,840
Speaker 1: And you go and talk to somebody's like, yeah, I

1273
01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:04,439
Speaker 1: lead you know X number of people. It was worth

1274
01:08:04,440 --> 01:08:07,760
Speaker 1: a million dollars. And most employers you're speaking Greek to

1275
01:08:07,800 --> 01:08:09,720
Speaker 1: them and they're like Yeah, that's great. So how are

1276
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:13,680
Speaker 1: you going to make me money? And so and so.

1277
01:08:13,760 --> 01:08:16,080
Speaker 1: I think writing is one of those things that just

1278
01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:19,720
Speaker 1: really you know, instills a sense of purpose, you know,

1279
01:08:19,800 --> 01:08:21,840
Speaker 1: a goal. It doesn't And I tell guys, I'm like,

1280
01:08:21,880 --> 01:08:24,080
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter if you ever get published. I mean,

1281
01:08:24,120 --> 01:08:26,040
Speaker 1: we live in an amazing time now. I mean, you

1282
01:08:26,080 --> 01:08:29,360
Speaker 1: can go to Amazon and get published now. But but

1283
01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:31,519
Speaker 1: I tell guys, it's like, look, it doesn't matter if

1284
01:08:31,520 --> 01:08:35,519
Speaker 1: you ever get published. What matters is you're you're finding purpose,

1285
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:38,320
Speaker 1: You're getting your mind out of something, and you're going

1286
01:08:38,360 --> 01:08:42,640
Speaker 1: for and reaching for those goals. It's a project that

1287
01:08:42,680 --> 01:08:46,160
Speaker 1: has a beginning, a middle, and an end. Yes, yeah,

1288
01:08:46,320 --> 01:08:49,840
Speaker 1: and it's and finishing a book is a tremendous sense

1289
01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:54,120
Speaker 1: of accomplishment as as well as not only a sense

1290
01:08:54,160 --> 01:08:58,960
Speaker 1: of accomplishment, but but it's also when you tell people

1291
01:08:58,960 --> 01:09:01,559
Speaker 1: that you've written book. I mean, like my I'll be

1292
01:09:01,600 --> 01:09:04,880
Speaker 1: the first to admit that my military planning books. If

1293
01:09:04,920 --> 01:09:07,320
Speaker 1: you can't sleep at night and you have insomnia, buy

1294
01:09:07,400 --> 01:09:09,920
Speaker 1: my book because it will put you to sleep. Okay,

1295
01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:12,679
Speaker 1: it is it is chloroform in print. Unless you're into

1296
01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:15,080
Speaker 1: that stuff. I mean, I'm I'm into that stuff. But

1297
01:09:15,120 --> 01:09:17,360
Speaker 1: if you're not into that stuff, I mean, you you're

1298
01:09:17,360 --> 01:09:19,840
Speaker 1: probably not gonna get past like page one and then

1299
01:09:19,880 --> 01:09:22,040
Speaker 1: you're gonna be a you're gonna fall asleep and so.

1300
01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:26,000
Speaker 1: But but what that does, though, is it's just that

1301
01:09:26,400 --> 01:09:28,960
Speaker 1: you know, it's that driving purpose. But you tell people

1302
01:09:29,040 --> 01:09:32,360
Speaker 1: then it's like, yeah, I've written a book, and people

1303
01:09:33,120 --> 01:09:34,800
Speaker 1: they're like, holy cow, you've written a book. And so

1304
01:09:34,800 --> 01:09:36,360
Speaker 1: now you get this, you know, you get a bit

1305
01:09:36,400 --> 01:09:40,880
Speaker 1: of this serotonin dump, you know, with pride, and you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah,

1306
01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:42,720
Speaker 1: I accomplished that I wrote a book, you know. And

1307
01:09:42,720 --> 01:09:45,680
Speaker 1: it's like your book is like your certificate of graduation

1308
01:09:45,800 --> 01:09:49,320
Speaker 1: from you know, from Carvard or you know, whatever that is.

1309
01:09:50,120 --> 01:09:54,800
Speaker 1: But it's it's tremendous for for getting your mind right

1310
01:09:55,560 --> 01:09:58,120
Speaker 1: at least I believe. And obviously I'm biased because I

1311
01:09:58,360 --> 01:10:00,680
Speaker 1: you know, I'm big into writing, but I don't know,

1312
01:10:00,720 --> 01:10:03,680
Speaker 1: it seems to be working for me. Yeah no, I

1313
01:10:03,720 --> 01:10:09,120
Speaker 1: mean I've I've written five books at this point. Uh

1314
01:10:09,200 --> 01:10:12,120
Speaker 1: and uh no, it's definitely helpful for me. And I

1315
01:10:12,120 --> 01:10:14,880
Speaker 1: mean our friend, uh Jim, last we were talking about

1316
01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:18,559
Speaker 1: he has his first book coming out pretty shortly. He

1317
01:10:18,640 --> 01:10:21,800
Speaker 1: was a seventh group warn officer. I mean, yeah, I

1318
01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:24,240
Speaker 1: think it's definitely helpful for a lot of guys out there.

1319
01:10:25,040 --> 01:10:27,919
Speaker 1: That's very cool, and you know, and it's also too

1320
01:10:28,720 --> 01:10:31,000
Speaker 1: is you know when I was when I was a

1321
01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:33,680
Speaker 1: young Special Forces guy, one of my team sergeant or

1322
01:10:33,720 --> 01:10:36,439
Speaker 1: excuse me, my sergeant major, was this guy by the

1323
01:10:36,520 --> 01:10:39,280
Speaker 1: name of Pete Bell. And Pete Bell had been a

1324
01:10:39,400 --> 01:10:45,479
Speaker 1: SOG guy, which was the signal. They were the guys

1325
01:10:45,960 --> 01:10:48,839
Speaker 1: in Vietnam, and you know, when he was running recon

1326
01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:52,360
Speaker 1: over and it's just a fascinating story that this guy had.

1327
01:10:52,560 --> 01:10:54,920
Speaker 1: You know, one of his stories is he had been

1328
01:10:55,479 --> 01:11:00,760
Speaker 1: six Americans, six American SF guys and six Nung mercenaries.

1329
01:11:01,160 --> 01:11:04,360
Speaker 1: They were they were jumping, they were parachuting into do

1330
01:11:04,439 --> 01:11:09,439
Speaker 1: a reconnaissance on a on a company of of North

1331
01:11:09,520 --> 01:11:12,320
Speaker 1: Vietnamese soldiers. They ended up landing in the middle of

1332
01:11:12,320 --> 01:11:16,040
Speaker 1: a battalion and so him and one other guy, he

1333
01:11:16,160 --> 01:11:20,679
Speaker 1: literally landed on a North Vietnamese soldiers campfire, and him

1334
01:11:20,720 --> 01:11:22,400
Speaker 1: and one other guy were the only guys that were

1335
01:11:22,439 --> 01:11:25,920
Speaker 1: ever seen or heard from again from that mission. And

1336
01:11:25,960 --> 01:11:28,800
Speaker 1: I told Pete at the time, you know, Sergeant Major Bell,

1337
01:11:28,880 --> 01:11:32,000
Speaker 1: I was like, Pete, you've got to write this stuff down.

1338
01:11:32,080 --> 01:11:34,200
Speaker 1: This is so important, These are lessons that have been

1339
01:11:34,280 --> 01:11:37,680
Speaker 1: learned in blood. You've got to pass this information on.

1340
01:11:38,360 --> 01:11:40,960
Speaker 1: And bless his heart. Six months later had a heart

1341
01:11:40,960 --> 01:11:44,760
Speaker 1: attack and was dead. And I remember thinking, what a

1342
01:11:44,840 --> 01:11:51,479
Speaker 1: loss of of knowledge because guy had absolutely absolutely true.

1343
01:11:52,000 --> 01:11:53,840
Speaker 1: I never know how much time you have and got

1344
01:11:53,840 --> 01:11:55,519
Speaker 1: to get it out there. Yeah, I mean, not to

1345
01:11:55,520 --> 01:11:57,680
Speaker 1: get on my high horse or anything. I mean, I

1346
01:11:57,720 --> 01:12:00,360
Speaker 1: know writing a book isn't for everybody to you, but

1347
01:12:00,439 --> 01:12:03,400
Speaker 1: like some of these guys, I mean, they should pass

1348
01:12:03,479 --> 01:12:07,120
Speaker 1: those lessons on. And uh, you know, when I was

1349
01:12:07,160 --> 01:12:10,559
Speaker 1: a young soldier, like I've I've talked about before. Um

1350
01:12:10,680 --> 01:12:13,719
Speaker 1: have you read the Dalton Furies book killed Bin Laden?

1351
01:12:15,080 --> 01:12:18,439
Speaker 1: I have not know? Well, I mean as a young soldier,

1352
01:12:18,479 --> 01:12:21,559
Speaker 1: I would not have known anything about that stuff except

1353
01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:24,799
Speaker 1: that that dude his name was Tom Greer, who passed

1354
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:27,360
Speaker 1: away last year. I wouldn't know anything about that if

1355
01:12:27,400 --> 01:12:29,760
Speaker 1: he hadn't written a book about it. There's there's no

1356
01:12:29,800 --> 01:12:32,400
Speaker 1: other way. No nobody ever likes as a ranger, no

1357
01:12:32,400 --> 01:12:34,200
Speaker 1: one ever likes sits you down and like gives you

1358
01:12:34,240 --> 01:12:36,960
Speaker 1: a brief on like past operations, like this is what

1359
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:39,559
Speaker 1: we did, right, This is what we did wrong. Um,

1360
01:12:39,600 --> 01:12:42,200
Speaker 1: there were some lessons learned from from Mungat issue that

1361
01:12:42,280 --> 01:12:45,160
Speaker 1: got passed on that were like put into the range

1362
01:12:45,160 --> 01:12:47,760
Speaker 1: of regiments d n A. You know, like like turn

1363
01:12:47,760 --> 01:12:50,479
Speaker 1: of kits for example, Uh, taking your nods out with

1364
01:12:50,560 --> 01:12:53,920
Speaker 1: you on every operation. But no one really sits down

1365
01:12:53,920 --> 01:12:56,000
Speaker 1: and tells you all of those things, like Sergeant Major

1366
01:12:56,080 --> 01:12:58,920
Speaker 1: Pete Bell, like, I would not know that unless you

1367
01:12:59,040 --> 01:13:03,400
Speaker 1: told me it. Yeah, exactly. And that's kind of the

1368
01:13:03,439 --> 01:13:06,400
Speaker 1: cool thing of having been in the you know, in

1369
01:13:06,479 --> 01:13:11,120
Speaker 1: the in the CT unit was because we we had

1370
01:13:11,160 --> 01:13:15,679
Speaker 1: we had fantastic continuity for the advisors that were going

1371
01:13:15,720 --> 01:13:18,000
Speaker 1: to those different units, and so I worked with the

1372
01:13:18,080 --> 01:13:21,679
Speaker 1: same guys for years and years and years and years,

1373
01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:24,439
Speaker 1: and so we would, you know, once in a while,

1374
01:13:24,520 --> 01:13:28,120
Speaker 1: we would get other you know, uh Jaysak elements are

1375
01:13:28,200 --> 01:13:31,080
Speaker 1: so common elements would you know come and get attached

1376
01:13:31,120 --> 01:13:33,639
Speaker 1: to us, and they you know, and they bring stuff

1377
01:13:33,720 --> 01:13:36,960
Speaker 1: up and it'd be like, yeah, we tried that, No.

1378
01:13:37,160 --> 01:13:39,479
Speaker 1: Six and it didn't work because of X, Y and Z,

1379
01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:41,439
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh wow, you know, and it's like

1380
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:44,840
Speaker 1: ten when they're when we're talking. And so just having

1381
01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:47,920
Speaker 1: that institutional knowledge and being able to pass it on.

1382
01:13:48,520 --> 01:13:50,639
Speaker 1: I mean, in the end, I think really, I mean,

1383
01:13:51,120 --> 01:13:53,280
Speaker 1: I think in the end it saved lives. And that's

1384
01:13:53,320 --> 01:13:56,880
Speaker 1: the cool thing is now is soldiers now come back

1385
01:13:56,920 --> 01:13:59,559
Speaker 1: and they share a ton more information than I think

1386
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:02,000
Speaker 1: has happened in the past. You know, the computers and

1387
01:14:02,040 --> 01:14:05,160
Speaker 1: everything that we have now is a tremendous resource for

1388
01:14:05,280 --> 01:14:08,360
Speaker 1: capturing that knowledge. And you know, I'm a big believer

1389
01:14:08,439 --> 01:14:12,639
Speaker 1: in soldiers now, especially you know, special operations. Soldiers are

1390
01:14:13,160 --> 01:14:15,960
Speaker 1: way better now than they were back. You know when

1391
01:14:16,000 --> 01:14:17,599
Speaker 1: I was in the you know, when I was a

1392
01:14:17,600 --> 01:14:20,840
Speaker 1: brand new guy in the eighties, just simply because of

1393
01:14:20,880 --> 01:14:26,400
Speaker 1: the sharing of information is it's almost instantaneous and so

1394
01:14:26,520 --> 01:14:31,200
Speaker 1: and it's phenomenal. It's amazing. So is there anything else, uh,

1395
01:14:31,800 --> 01:14:33,479
Speaker 1: you have coming up, Jeff, that you want to get

1396
01:14:33,520 --> 01:14:36,920
Speaker 1: into before we wrap it up today. You know, we're

1397
01:14:36,960 --> 01:14:40,080
Speaker 1: just continuing to crank on books. We're continuing to grow

1398
01:14:40,120 --> 01:14:43,960
Speaker 1: the ready man crowd. UM. And I'd encourage anybody that's

1399
01:14:43,960 --> 01:14:46,920
Speaker 1: out there, you know, get involved. Like I'm a big

1400
01:14:46,960 --> 01:14:52,080
Speaker 1: believer in service to the community. UM. I think probably

1401
01:14:52,120 --> 01:14:54,200
Speaker 1: one of the most important things that we can do

1402
01:14:54,280 --> 01:14:57,920
Speaker 1: for our own mental health as well as the mental

1403
01:14:57,920 --> 01:15:01,960
Speaker 1: health of other folks. Is is service is helping helping

1404
01:15:01,960 --> 01:15:04,920
Speaker 1: other people out, whatever that may be, whether that's you know,

1405
01:15:04,960 --> 01:15:08,000
Speaker 1: being a foster parent or doing you know, in geo

1406
01:15:08,120 --> 01:15:10,760
Speaker 1: type work, or you know, we help a variety of

1407
01:15:10,760 --> 01:15:13,479
Speaker 1: different people. And and you know, on on the on

1408
01:15:13,520 --> 01:15:15,720
Speaker 1: the very selfish side, on my side, I do that

1409
01:15:15,760 --> 01:15:18,000
Speaker 1: because it makes me feel good, and you know, and

1410
01:15:18,040 --> 01:15:22,000
Speaker 1: then it also you know, we're doing that because we're

1411
01:15:22,040 --> 01:15:25,320
Speaker 1: helping each other out. And I think it's a tremendous

1412
01:15:25,800 --> 01:15:28,679
Speaker 1: resource that a lot of vets that you know, maybe

1413
01:15:28,680 --> 01:15:31,639
Speaker 1: if they're having times hard times, figure out a way

1414
01:15:31,680 --> 01:15:35,599
Speaker 1: to help somebody else out, and you'll you'll find out

1415
01:15:35,640 --> 01:15:39,120
Speaker 1: that like through service, we can, I mean, we help ourselves.

1416
01:15:39,439 --> 01:15:41,439
Speaker 1: You know. I heard for years you get more out

1417
01:15:41,439 --> 01:15:44,040
Speaker 1: of service than than what you give. And I always

1418
01:15:44,080 --> 01:15:46,400
Speaker 1: thought it was kind of like some touchy feely hippie

1419
01:15:46,800 --> 01:15:50,160
Speaker 1: tree hugger stuff. And then and then I really started

1420
01:15:50,160 --> 01:15:52,479
Speaker 1: to see it when I was in Afghanistan working with

1421
01:15:52,479 --> 01:15:55,599
Speaker 1: my guys, you know, my commandos, and then and then

1422
01:15:55,640 --> 01:16:00,200
Speaker 1: since that time and business working with other entities, you know,

1423
01:16:00,320 --> 01:16:04,599
Speaker 1: having helped out a shlew of of um, some pretty

1424
01:16:04,600 --> 01:16:08,439
Speaker 1: prominent um other veteran businesses that were out there, they

1425
01:16:08,439 --> 01:16:11,680
Speaker 1: were having some issues, but stepping into help. I'll tell

1426
01:16:11,720 --> 01:16:16,240
Speaker 1: you what it's just been. It's phenomenal. It is absolutely phenomenal.

1427
01:16:16,320 --> 01:16:18,479
Speaker 1: And so that would that would kind of be my

1428
01:16:18,600 --> 01:16:21,360
Speaker 1: parting words is if you're having a hard time, then

1429
01:16:22,000 --> 01:16:23,960
Speaker 1: find out a way to do service or I mean,

1430
01:16:24,240 --> 01:16:26,240
Speaker 1: anybody that's out there can feel free to reach out

1431
01:16:26,240 --> 01:16:28,240
Speaker 1: to me any time too, if if I can do

1432
01:16:28,320 --> 01:16:31,720
Speaker 1: anything to help, that's awesome. Jeff and Uh, I'd love

1433
01:16:31,720 --> 01:16:35,080
Speaker 1: to have you back on sometime for like the the

1434
01:16:35,160 --> 01:16:41,840
Speaker 1: Mondo to our mega conversation about the Kalashnikov. I'd love to.

1435
01:16:41,960 --> 01:16:44,840
Speaker 1: I can. I can talk about the a K for

1436
01:16:44,840 --> 01:16:49,280
Speaker 1: for for hours if if I need to, I just

1437
01:16:49,400 --> 01:16:52,840
Speaker 1: I find the thing unbelievably intriguing, and every time I

1438
01:16:52,920 --> 01:16:56,639
Speaker 1: take it apart, I learned a little new nuance about

1439
01:16:56,680 --> 01:16:59,000
Speaker 1: it that I'm like, huh, and I never nearly noticed

1440
01:16:59,040 --> 01:17:02,559
Speaker 1: that before, and um it just yeah, I'm a big

1441
01:17:02,600 --> 01:17:05,639
Speaker 1: fan of it. Is We've probably read the same books

1442
01:17:05,640 --> 01:17:08,160
Speaker 1: about it too. So yeah, I'd love to do a

1443
01:17:08,200 --> 01:17:10,400
Speaker 1: show where we just wax poetic about the a K

1444
01:17:10,560 --> 01:17:14,599
Speaker 1: forty seven sometime. Love to I'm gonna I'm gonna hold

1445
01:17:14,640 --> 01:17:17,920
Speaker 1: you to that. Okay, all right, I'm down. People would

1446
01:17:17,920 --> 01:17:20,040
Speaker 1: dig that. There's a lot of gear guys in the audience,

1447
01:17:20,080 --> 01:17:23,559
Speaker 1: of course. Um so, as I said, the latest book

1448
01:17:23,680 --> 01:17:25,439
Speaker 1: is the Last Air Force one. But if you go

1449
01:17:25,479 --> 01:17:28,639
Speaker 1: on Amazon, there's there's several books. There's others that are

1450
01:17:28,720 --> 01:17:32,760
Speaker 1: up for pre order. Rats Medical dot com is the website.

1451
01:17:32,800 --> 01:17:35,840
Speaker 1: Ready Man dot com um for the other stuff, and

1452
01:17:35,880 --> 01:17:41,320
Speaker 1: then uh on Instagram, Jeff is at Praetorian pr A

1453
01:17:42,040 --> 01:17:47,160
Speaker 1: E T O R I A N. Underscore Innovations on

1454
01:17:47,240 --> 01:17:51,800
Speaker 1: Instagram Praetorian Underscore Innovations. And I think that's it, man,

1455
01:17:51,880 --> 01:17:53,880
Speaker 1: I'm I'm glad that we finally did this. And as

1456
01:17:53,880 --> 01:17:56,479
Speaker 1: I said, having a guy of your background and as

1457
01:17:56,560 --> 01:17:58,880
Speaker 1: Jack said, maybe a gear discussion in the near future.

1458
01:18:00,160 --> 01:18:03,720
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely, I really appreciate it and anything I can

1459
01:18:03,720 --> 01:18:05,240
Speaker 1: do to help you guys out, I mean, just say

1460
01:18:05,240 --> 01:18:09,280
Speaker 1: the word great discussion with Jeff. Be sure to check

1461
01:18:09,320 --> 01:18:11,960
Speaker 1: out Create Club. It's a club four men by men

1462
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Speaker 1: as a reminder for those listening, now is the time

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01:18:50,320 --> 01:18:52,439
Speaker 1: to sign up for the spec Ops Channel. That's our

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Speaker 1: channel that offers the most exclusive shows, documentaries and interviews

1475
01:18:57,000 --> 01:19:00,599
Speaker 1: covering the most exciting military content today. The spec Ops

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1477
01:19:05,200 --> 01:19:08,760
Speaker 1: as they participate in the most advanced training in the country,

1478
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Speaker 1: everything from shooting schools, defensive driving, jungle and winter warfare, climbing,

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Speaker 1: and much more. Again, you can watch this content by

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Speaker 1: now at the use rep dot com. That's the news

1494
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Speaker 1: rep dot com. And by the way, for those not

1495
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Speaker 1: in the know, we have our own SOFTWAREP Radio app

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Speaker 1: you can download for free on iPhone on Android and

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Speaker 1: our homepage is software up radio dot com where you

1498
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Speaker 1: can see the full archive shows. As you've heard me

1499
01:20:17,880 --> 01:20:20,360
Speaker 1: mentioned for some of those back episodes aren't up on

1500
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Speaker 1: SoundCloud or Apple podcast Casts or Spotify, so if you

1501
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Speaker 1: go to the website softwarep radio dot com, it's everything.

1502
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Speaker 1: Other than a very small handful of episodes we took down,

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Speaker 1: but four hundred plus episodes all there um and as always,

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Speaker 1: can keep up with us at Softwrep Radio on Twitter,

1505
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Speaker 1: on Instagram and great having Jeff on great discussion and uh,

1506
01:20:44,360 --> 01:20:47,840
Speaker 1: as I said earlier, very interesting background. Yeah, it's great.

1507
01:20:48,080 --> 01:20:50,479
Speaker 1: We're gonna have to do it again. Yep. Alright, so

1508
01:20:50,600 --> 01:20:53,240
Speaker 1: once again, follow us at Softwrep Radio to keep up

1509
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Speaker 1: with the latest. Happy birthday, Jim West. Have a great

1510
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Speaker 1: week everyone. You've been listening to self Rep Radio. New

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