Speaker 1: Yeah, all the stuff written about him that is pure hogwash.
Speaker 1: These are nineteenth century stuff that gets associated with him
Speaker 1: sort of to build him up, and he doesn't need it.
Speaker 1: He stands on his own. It's a remarkable man. We're
Speaker 1: on our third and final episode in our series on
Speaker 1: the Shawnee Leader two COMPSA. He's been called the greatest
Speaker 1: Native leader in American history, but we've found ourselves backed
Speaker 1: against the bedrock of inevitability. On this side of mortality,
Speaker 1: all great men and their stories must come to an end.
Speaker 1: This episode is titled two Comes his Death. We'll talk
Speaker 1: about that fateful day in October eighteen thirteen, but perhaps
Speaker 1: more relevant to us today, will explore the ways in
Speaker 1: which we remember history and sometimes play tricks with our
Speaker 1: conscience to console an uncomfortable past. Was the image of
Speaker 1: the Shawnee reflected back to America really him at all?
Speaker 1: And will contrast the way different cultures view their great men.
Speaker 1: Not everybody does it the same. And lastly, on the
Speaker 1: wild Meter of Interest, which is penned in The Red Shawnee,
Speaker 1: Chief Ben Barnes tells us the vision and mission of
Speaker 1: the modern day Shawnee Nation. I really doubt that you're
Speaker 1: gonna want to miss this one. Really giving American Indians
Speaker 1: their place in history, American history. You've got to argue
Speaker 1: that they were two of the most influential siblings in
Speaker 1: American history period. Who can you compare them to? My
Speaker 1: name is Clay Nukelem and this is the Bear Grease Podcast,
Speaker 1: where we'll explore things forgotten but relevant, search for insight
Speaker 1: and unlikely places, and where we'll tell the story of
Speaker 1: Americans who lived their lives close to the land. Presented
Speaker 1: by f HF Gear American Maid, purpose built hunting and
Speaker 1: fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged as the
Speaker 1: places we explore. Thank you very much. Listen up fund evening.
Speaker 1: This song is called the Last Days of Tecumsa by
Speaker 1: American songwriter Grant Lee Buffalo Yeah, j Yeah, and the
Speaker 1: song's lyrics are mysterious and short. In one minute and
Speaker 1: six seconds, it talks about spacemen and airplanes, but at
Speaker 1: the heart of the song, he says he couldn't believe
Speaker 1: all that he knew would fade. The song ends, and
Speaker 1: you wish it was longer. In many ways, it's like
Speaker 1: two comes his life like a dagger piercing your soul.
Speaker 1: Two comes. His plight for the traditional Indian way of
Speaker 1: life and lands leaves me gasping for a breath of
Speaker 1: justice or a hint of fairness, and a scenario stacked
Speaker 1: with an almost undeniable inevitability. It's hard to reconcile. It
Speaker 1: does not escape me that if t Comes his vision
Speaker 1: had prevailed, these United States, which I've become fond of,
Speaker 1: would look much different than they do today, which leaves
Speaker 1: me searching deep to evaluate if I really wanted that
Speaker 1: justice or does it just make me feel good to
Speaker 1: look back and cast well wishes on this warrior's vision.
Speaker 1: We're gonna dive right into that faithful day in eighteen
Speaker 1: thirteen when two comes to his men and a meager
Speaker 1: British force found themselves pushed into Ontario, Canada, after fighting
Speaker 1: near Detroit, Michigan. They're in the middle of what would
Speaker 1: become known as the War of eighteen twelve, a fight
Speaker 1: between Great Britain and the young United States. The war
Speaker 1: started because of British interference with US trade routes, but
Speaker 1: America wanted to own Indian lands and Canada, and both
Speaker 1: sides had Indian allies fighting with them, But the most
Speaker 1: influential group was led by the Shawnee two Cumpsa and
Speaker 1: his Pan Indian gang fighting with the British. Two comes
Speaker 1: to his legacy is that he garnered the largest fighting
Speaker 1: force of Native Americans to stand against America. Some believe
Speaker 1: upwards of six thousand warriors at its peak. He gathered
Speaker 1: fighters from at least twelve different tribes to fight for
Speaker 1: Indian lands through a religious, military and political revolution. Uniting
Speaker 1: warriors from the tribes was a feat in and of itself,
Speaker 1: as they carried the burden of generations of internal conflict
Speaker 1: themselves over land, and most of the tribes rejected to
Speaker 1: comes his radical vision of standing against the United States,
Speaker 1: demanding and Indian nation. Their reasons are as elusive as
Speaker 1: a clouded sunrise. You know exactly what's happening, but you
Speaker 1: just can't see it clearly. Some of the tribes were
Speaker 1: being paid by the United States, many had already fled
Speaker 1: west to the Mississippi, and some just knew that this
Speaker 1: plan wouldn't succeed. It comes to wasn't a chief, but
Speaker 1: he rose to power in the Shawnee world because of
Speaker 1: his visionary ideology, his personal charisma, his success as a
Speaker 1: war leader, and his incredible oratory skill, and his striking
Speaker 1: good looks didn't hurt either, or at least that's what
Speaker 1: they say about him. However, he wasn't alone. His Brotherton's Squattawa,
Speaker 1: known as the Prophet, led the religious side of this
Speaker 1: revolution and stands as one of the most influential Native
Speaker 1: American prophets in known history. These boys were fighting for
Speaker 1: a diying way of life which was rapidly being choked
Speaker 1: out by American encroachment. If you listen to the last
Speaker 1: two episodes, you know all this stuff already. Here's author
Speaker 1: and historian Peter Cozens on two comes his death, So
Speaker 1: two comes A. He basically prophesies his own death. He
Speaker 1: has an intuition that this is going to be his
Speaker 1: last battle that he's going into. Tell me what happens. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he um t Coomsa and tanks Ottawa, and they're greatly
Speaker 1: reduced alliance of now just five hundred warriors down from
Speaker 1: again nearly six thousand at the high point. They're retreating
Speaker 1: deeper and deeper into Ontario with various this very small
Speaker 1: British force, and they're being pursued by a vastly superior
Speaker 1: American force under William Henry Harrison, and they're fighting skirmishes
Speaker 1: all along the way as they're falling back day by
Speaker 1: day from Detroit deeper into Ontario. And on the night
Speaker 1: of October four, eight thirteen, to come sitting around the
Speaker 1: fire with his closest followers, and suddenly two come. So
Speaker 1: just has a revelation that he's going to be killed
Speaker 1: in battle the next day. And uh, one of the
Speaker 1: Indians to whom he tells us his name is Shabona.
Speaker 1: And there's the fact that a town in Illinois name
Speaker 1: for him. Now, he who went on to live into
Speaker 1: the eighteen forties, at least, you know, we called this,
Speaker 1: as did others that you know, he was he was
Speaker 1: going to die the next day. Now, whether that's apocryphal
Speaker 1: or not, that's what happened. And the next morning, on
Speaker 1: Cobra fifth, eighteen thirteen, the British commander, a guy named Proctor,
Speaker 1: finally decides to stand and fight the Americans. Here's Cornell
Speaker 1: professor and author Robert Morgan, very good British general, very
Speaker 1: close to t Compsey, named General Brock, has been recalled
Speaker 1: and replaced by General Procter, who is incompetent. Basically, he
Speaker 1: don't know how to talk to these men. He certainly
Speaker 1: doesn't know how to talk to Indians. They're marching away
Speaker 1: from the Americans, going up towards the River Thames, and
Speaker 1: Procter does such a bad job that he divides his
Speaker 1: men and he doesn't communicate well with the Indians. And
Speaker 1: when Harrison arrives, he just essentially runs away and leaves
Speaker 1: Tcmpsey to fight the battle. That all the fighting is
Speaker 1: really done by the Indians. But Harrison is really good.
Speaker 1: I mean, whatever his reputation he is among revisionists, this
Speaker 1: guy is really smart and he defeats that group. Of
Speaker 1: the hero the Battle of the Thams. Two other heroes,
Speaker 1: a colonel named Richard Mentor Johnson, is the one who
Speaker 1: actually kills Tacpsy. He's wounded by Decompy and he goes
Speaker 1: in and shoots him at close range and kills him.
Speaker 1: The supernatural nature of two comes his revelation about his death,
Speaker 1: and the evidence from the natural realm seemed to be
Speaker 1: converging together. Almost every male figure in his life had
Speaker 1: been killed in battle. Two comes to was now forty
Speaker 1: five years old in the age when the freshwater River
Speaker 1: of Youth begins to fade into the overwhelming volume of
Speaker 1: the salty sea at the coast of middle age, and
Speaker 1: for the lifespan of his time older age. This time
Speaker 1: in a man's life brings more wisdom, but in hand
Speaker 1: to hand combat, in months and even years of constant motion,
Speaker 1: living on war rations and throwing his broken leg from
Speaker 1: the bison hunt, his physical body wasn't at its peak.
Speaker 1: A professional sports player whose career goes beyond forty is
Speaker 1: an outlier. But I'm not suggesting two comes To died
Speaker 1: because of his age. It's just an interesting thought. But
Speaker 1: I wonder if two comes To all ways knew he'd
Speaker 1: die on the battlefield. The sheer volume of exposure to
Speaker 1: potential death and the nobility in his family associated with
Speaker 1: death for this cause are interesting factors. His father, pucks
Speaker 1: and Waw, died at the Battle of Point Pleasant and
Speaker 1: was buried in a shallow grave in the forest. But
Speaker 1: before he died, he tasked his son chis Aqua two Comes,
Speaker 1: his big brother, to fight for Indian lands at all costs.
Speaker 1: Chis Aqua would later declare he'd rather the fouls of
Speaker 1: the air pick his bones than be buried back at camp.
Speaker 1: And that's exactly what happened. Many like to throw around
Speaker 1: that they're involved in a cause they die for, but
Speaker 1: for most of us those words are a cheap verbal thrill,
Speaker 1: a joy ride, and counterfeit valor two comes to paid
Speaker 1: in full in the currency of blood. Here's Dr Dave
Speaker 1: Edmonds of the University of Texas, Dallas. When the fight
Speaker 1: is over, and then after his death in resistance, just
Speaker 1: sort of they crumble and they begin to run. They
Speaker 1: go back towards Detroit when the war. When the battle
Speaker 1: is over, his body is identified, initially by some people
Speaker 1: who knew him. It's on the ground there. They go
Speaker 1: to get Harrison and a guy named Simon Kenton who's
Speaker 1: an American Scouts kind of like Boon. By the time
Speaker 1: they get there, many of the bodies are mutilated horribly,
Speaker 1: and that they cut strips to make razor straps. They
Speaker 1: cut strips to all kinds of trophies, and his body
Speaker 1: who they think, his body is so mutilated they really
Speaker 1: stuff off. They can't even tell who it is. So
Speaker 1: the question is then what happens to the body. That's
Speaker 1: that's hard to say. I personally think there was a
Speaker 1: mass grave and they put a lot of the bodies
Speaker 1: in there. Personally, I think he lies with a lot
Speaker 1: of the men that fell at the battle. Other people
Speaker 1: said no, that they carried him off and buried his
Speaker 1: bones in the body. I don't really know. I'm sure
Speaker 1: if Tacompsa would have had his way, he would probably
Speaker 1: have wanted to be buried there amidst the warriors who
Speaker 1: fought with him. But then some people said, oh, no,
Speaker 1: he escaped, and so no, no, no, no, but he's
Speaker 1: killed there. The man's years old, yeah, prom and the
Speaker 1: man had killed him was a uh, there's probably a
Speaker 1: nine chance that was Richard M. Johnson, a colonel from
Speaker 1: Kentucky would then later go on to become Vice president.
Speaker 1: And he ran on the he used the horrible, horrible
Speaker 1: slogan Rumsey Dumpsey, Rumsey Dumpsey. I'm Colonel Johnson, and I
Speaker 1: killed the Kumpsey. Well. Um wow. That so that that
Speaker 1: would be equivalent to like a political leader today running
Speaker 1: off that they killed Osama bin Laden. Yeah. Yeah, except yeah,
Speaker 1: except everybody hated some have been ladden and nobody really
Speaker 1: to come. But the American people would have been really
Speaker 1: threatened by him though something but like he was an
Speaker 1: enemy of Yah. In eighteen thirty six, Richard Mentor Johnson
Speaker 1: ran for vice president. It was a peak time for
Speaker 1: Tacumsas fame in America. It was twenty three years after
Speaker 1: his death, and he ran on the Democratic ticket with
Speaker 1: Martin van Buren, touting that he had killed two Cumsa.
Speaker 1: And notice that his rhyme makes it sound like they
Speaker 1: pronounced two cumpsa to come see, which my friend Robert
Speaker 1: Morgan does. And we all know already that we're all
Speaker 1: pronouncing it wrong because it was actually two come fifth,
Speaker 1: which is an odd pronunciation for our ear. Anyway. Another
Speaker 1: name that just came up with Simon Kenton, who's believed
Speaker 1: to have identified the mutilated body of Tecumsa. Some say
Speaker 1: it was because one leg was shorter than the other
Speaker 1: from the bison wreck. Kenton was an influential American scout,
Speaker 1: hunter and tiersman. He was a friend of Daniel Boone,
Speaker 1: credited with saving his life once. The exploits of Kenton's
Speaker 1: life on the frontier are only slightly overshadowed by his
Speaker 1: contemporary Boon. He was captured by the Shawnee, ran the
Speaker 1: gauntlet multiple times, was adopted as a Shawnee, and they
Speaker 1: named him Cutahota, which means the condemned man. The American
Speaker 1: frontier was a small world. Lastly, the mutilation of enemy
Speaker 1: bodies during this time was common for both sides of
Speaker 1: this warfare, from scalping to the Americans cutting long strips
Speaker 1: of skin off the backs of enemies to make leather goods.
Speaker 1: It was a wildly brutal time and was normalized in
Speaker 1: the culture of war. Scalping has long been seen as
Speaker 1: a historical Indian practice, but some revisionists are now saying
Speaker 1: that Europeans started it in North America as a mechanism
Speaker 1: of a bounty system. However, there is substantial evidence from
Speaker 1: the records of your Appean's earliest contact with Indigenous people
Speaker 1: that it was happening before they got here. Interesting stuff.
Speaker 1: Here's Robert Morgan defining the turning point catalyzed by two
Speaker 1: comps's death. But once their great leader is killed, the
Speaker 1: morale of the Indians kind of evaporates. It's a total victory,
Speaker 1: and the British army has fled, and the Indians disperse
Speaker 1: and never gather in that kind of forth again, ever again,
Speaker 1: never again. Even a little big horn. There was a
Speaker 1: large group of Indians, but they were there not to
Speaker 1: fight Americans, but to fight the crows, to drive them
Speaker 1: out of s After his death, never again would Native
Speaker 1: American forces be rallied in such great numbers against America.
Speaker 1: If nothing else, this shows Two comes to strength as
Speaker 1: a leader. And if you remember, on the last episode,
Speaker 1: Peter Cozen's told us how t comes to save the
Speaker 1: lives of prisoners of war from the Kentucky militia. Before
Speaker 1: Two comes to his men killed them all. This was
Speaker 1: told to America, and we loved him for it. Here's
Speaker 1: an interesting consideration. I mean, his corps was flayed, his
Speaker 1: skin was slaid off his corpse by, if not some
Speaker 1: of the very same Kentuckians whose lives he spared at
Speaker 1: Fort Meigs, at least by Kentuckians who knew some of
Speaker 1: those Kentuckians. That isn't a tragic tragedy. Yeah, I marveled
Speaker 1: at his restraint, just as I marvel at tanks Wattawa's
Speaker 1: ability to hold fast to his religious beliefs even in
Speaker 1: the wake of defeat. And he went on to live
Speaker 1: until eighteen thirty five. And yeah, he died. The prophet
Speaker 1: died on the outskirts of modern day Kansas City, Kansas,
Speaker 1: on the Shawnee Reservation in eighteen thirty five. I mean,
Speaker 1: he was a broken man. He was I think sixty
Speaker 1: one when he died, but he still up stamious, still
Speaker 1: meditated to the Master of Life, still held true to
Speaker 1: his beliefs. So they're both remarkable men in their own right.
Speaker 1: And then together, you know, you have to and there's note,
Speaker 1: there's no disputing the fact that they were the two
Speaker 1: most influential Indian siblings in American Indian history. I mean
Speaker 1: to come so, I think we've shown conclusively was the
Speaker 1: most influential political military leader, Thanks Fatawa was clearly the
Speaker 1: most influential Indian prophet in American Indian history. So together
Speaker 1: they're clearly the most influential Indian siblings. But really giving
Speaker 1: American Indians their place in history, American history, You've got
Speaker 1: to argue that they were two of the most influential
Speaker 1: siblings in American history period. Who can you compare them to?
Speaker 1: And you know, Tanks Flatawa was able to cope with
Speaker 1: life afterwards. He eventually actually became an occasional house guest
Speaker 1: of the Governor of Michigan Territory who fought against the
Speaker 1: Kumps and Flatawa to Harrison, became a house guest and
Speaker 1: visitor in Detroit, helped lead the Shawnee west to Kansas.
Speaker 1: You eventually, in a manner of speaking, he made his
Speaker 1: peace with the Americans. It come. So I don't think
Speaker 1: you ever could have. I don't think it was in
Speaker 1: his makeup. I mean, he was so dedicated to that,
Speaker 1: you know, that idea of a Panni Indian alliance and homeland.
Speaker 1: I don't know if he could have adapted to the
Speaker 1: change circumstances. Could he have adapted to what was going
Speaker 1: to happen to his people, or would it have happened
Speaker 1: at all if he'd lived a full life. We're tiptoeing
Speaker 1: around a grand assumption that the timing of his death
Speaker 1: was an act of mercy from this master of life
Speaker 1: that he served. It's a question no one is qualified
Speaker 1: to answer. But here's really what we're contemplating. Is there
Speaker 1: a realm beyond this one, superintending men's lives. Without a doubt,
Speaker 1: both of these brothers would have said yes, so could
Speaker 1: this master of life have protected to come? So the
Speaker 1: assumption is that he could have. I'm not suggesting for
Speaker 1: a second that I know the full scope of the
Speaker 1: doctrine of the Shawnees, not at all. But it's clear
Speaker 1: two Comesa was no fatalist, and from overwhelming evidence, he
Speaker 1: believed the wilful actions of men could bend the spirit realm,
Speaker 1: which then orchestrated the natural realm. And I can get
Speaker 1: behind that, taking out any philosophical meanderings. We don't know
Speaker 1: why he died, but the cold reality is that his corpse,
Speaker 1: absence of his spirit, lay on the banks of the
Speaker 1: Thames River on October five, eighteen thirteen. Two comes His
Speaker 1: passion for his vision of an Indian nation seemed to
Speaker 1: be so resolute it's hard to imagine him dying peacefully
Speaker 1: on a Kansas reservation. Here's Dr Edmonds, and we're about
Speaker 1: to be set up for a sucker punch. He is
Speaker 1: an irremarkable man in American history. He is a man
Speaker 1: who has epitomizes want it within the broaderst film of
Speaker 1: American culture, what an ideal Indian person should be. Wait
Speaker 1: a minute, what an ideal Indian person should be? Is
Speaker 1: that what he said as in an American being the
Speaker 1: judge of what an ideal person from another culture should
Speaker 1: be based on the things favorable to our worldview. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think we do that all the time. It would
Speaker 1: be like Russia elizing an American because they exemplified what
Speaker 1: Russia thinks an American should be. Like, it's a mind twister,
Speaker 1: But really, what I'm learning is how complex of a
Speaker 1: story this is to tell. And I'm certain that my
Speaker 1: own biases have clouded the truth even on this here
Speaker 1: Burgary's podcast. If you remember, I've been asking from the
Speaker 1: beginning why to Come so was an American hero. We're
Speaker 1: about to be served a hot plate of gotcha. Now,
Speaker 1: Dr Edmunds is going to tell us all the fables
Speaker 1: created about two Come to his legacy that made him
Speaker 1: more palatable to the Americans, and that in some ways
Speaker 1: it was hard to do biography of him because there's
Speaker 1: so much stuff associated with him. For example, there's the
Speaker 1: myth that he fell in love with a white woman,
Speaker 1: Rebecca Galloway supposedly, and he set at her feet and
Speaker 1: she read Shakespeare to him. You can see this throughout
Speaker 1: the nineteenth century. All the stuff written about him talks
Speaker 1: about this Rebecca Galloway. That is pure hogwash, but it's
Speaker 1: it's sort of adds to this image of a man
Speaker 1: and two come to from what we know, was married twice.
Speaker 1: Second time he married an older woman who helped take
Speaker 1: care of his son. He has a son that will
Speaker 1: survive him. There are the other one is he's an
Speaker 1: argue's always sometimes pictured his tall, sort of light skinned.
Speaker 1: And there's some one rumor is that his his mother
Speaker 1: was a white captive. Come on, this is trying to
Speaker 1: to to lighten him. The classic one is we know,
Speaker 1: for example, he had he had a ring in his
Speaker 1: in his nose and hung down upon his lip. And
Speaker 1: the early early pictures, early portraits that we have, our sketches,
Speaker 1: have that on him. But after about ten or fifteen years,
Speaker 1: the white illustrators took it out because it didn't it
Speaker 1: was they thought that denigrated him. Oh. The other one
Speaker 1: that was very big, that he was a member of
Speaker 1: the Masonic lodge. For God's sakes, he was not a Mason.
Speaker 1: But it's but these are nineteenth century stuff that gets
Speaker 1: associated with him sort of to build him up, and
Speaker 1: he doesn't need it. He stands on his own. It's
Speaker 1: a remarkable man. In today's world, we might call this
Speaker 1: fake news except to make someone look favorable in the fakeness,
Speaker 1: But we're about to see a potential reason that we
Speaker 1: wanted him to look good. Here's Robert Morgan directly answering
Speaker 1: the question of why it comes to qualified as an
Speaker 1: American hero. If he's right, the motivations aren't as noble
Speaker 1: as they see. Now, let's see in with the speculation
Speaker 1: on why Decompsy is such a hero to Americans though
Speaker 1: he fought against Americans many times. Well, Americans do admire
Speaker 1: a great warrior. I'm an extremely brave and also a
Speaker 1: great horator. But in my opinion, the reason he's really
Speaker 1: so much admired because he was all those things. It
Speaker 1: was charismatic, handsome, smart, could be friends to Americans, and
Speaker 1: but he lost. This tremendous leader who loses so we
Speaker 1: can feel good about it. We thought he's a great man,
Speaker 1: but he lost. We beat in So you're a hero.
Speaker 1: If you can beat a hero, if you defeat somebody
Speaker 1: who's not a hero, then that's not such a great
Speaker 1: accomplishment that we defeated decom Say. You know, there are
Speaker 1: other Indian heroes, but there's nobody like Decome. Say. Sherman
Speaker 1: was named William D. Compsy Sherman. I grew up in
Speaker 1: a community where there was a cumpsy shipman. He was
Speaker 1: t cumpsy shipman that the people admired him. You could
Speaker 1: admire him so much because he was a great leader.
Speaker 1: But we beat him, which makes us seem even bigger.
Speaker 1: If you defeat a great man, then you're great. He
Speaker 1: appeals to advantage. Oh yeah, I kind of think of
Speaker 1: it like a sports in sports situation, like if you
Speaker 1: have a great rival and you're on this side, if
Speaker 1: that rival beat you, you're it's just you're gonna hate
Speaker 1: him all the worse. But if if you beat that
Speaker 1: guy all of a sudden, you might kind of be like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, they're they're pretty good guys, man, they're great competitors. There, there, this,
Speaker 1: there that. But it's you only feel good about him
Speaker 1: because you beat him. Well, Achilles defeats Hector was the
Speaker 1: greatest warrior the Trojan's ever had. I mean, don't know,
Speaker 1: that's that's really quite an accomplic. You're only as good
Speaker 1: as your opponent. In a young nation hungry for identity,
Speaker 1: beating Twokumpsa and elevating him as a national hero made
Speaker 1: us feel good about ourselves. If you look at our
Speaker 1: motivations for this admiration that we still have for him today.
Speaker 1: It makes me wonder how close that two coumes so
Speaker 1: we've described on this series really reflects the real two cumpsa.
Speaker 1: Our biases shape our stories. It also makes me wonder
Speaker 1: who is qualified to tell any story at all? And
Speaker 1: from what basis can a human even operate from a
Speaker 1: position that lacks bias. That's a big question with a
Speaker 1: tough answer. But I know just the guy to talk
Speaker 1: to about two kumsa. Here's Shawnee Chief Ben Barnes. Do
Speaker 1: you think we've kind of westernized and turned him into
Speaker 1: a hero when he wasn't? I am, but I think
Speaker 1: I think it's been hyper glamorized. And I think if
Speaker 1: you go see that play in Ohio, I think it's
Speaker 1: it's absolutely terrible because they have it up there and
Speaker 1: is a story they've since they've since turned it into
Speaker 1: public theater and they have a stage. And so we've
Speaker 1: done that with Mu Tacum. So you know, we've created
Speaker 1: a We've created a figure that's just not representative of
Speaker 1: the man who he was. Have you been to the
Speaker 1: National Portrait Gallery in d C. You should go. They
Speaker 1: have a they have a statue of two comes in
Speaker 1: marble and he's slain and he's laying there in either
Speaker 1: alabaster or marble, and it looks very Greco Roman. It's like,
Speaker 1: what you know, It's just it's that kind of you know,
Speaker 1: myth making, so out of after the Civil War, the
Speaker 1: country as a whole started dealing in myth making in
Speaker 1: eighteen eighties and eighteen nineties. You know, the some remember
Speaker 1: of the past never was. I have a book if
Speaker 1: you're somewhere Katrina Phillips uh staging indigenuity. She coins a
Speaker 1: term called postalgia, so it's a no nostalgia for things
Speaker 1: that never were. I love that phrase. Fau stylegia, fa stalgia,
Speaker 1: who pstalgia belonging for a past that didn't exist? Do
Speaker 1: I do this? Do you do that? I bet you do.
Speaker 1: I probably don't, lute. I recently read an essay from
Speaker 1: Southern history author Dan Carter. He's extensively interviewed people about
Speaker 1: race relations in the South his whole life. I want
Speaker 1: to read a single paragraph from his essay, called Shattered Pieces,
Speaker 1: Living and Writing Southern History. It startled me as I
Speaker 1: listened to my interviewees described the events of those years.
Speaker 1: I recognized the great chasm between their recollections and what
Speaker 1: I knew to be true, And with each interview I
Speaker 1: learned an important lesson about memory. It's not simply what
Speaker 1: we forget. The more fundamental problem is that we constantly
Speaker 1: recreate memory so that our past can live comfortably with
Speaker 1: the present, without the jar and dissonances that inevitably a
Speaker 1: company changed through time. Like Shakespeare's monster Caliban. We drift
Speaker 1: into reveries of the past that is so comforting that
Speaker 1: when we awake we cry to dream again, no wonder.
Speaker 1: Oliver Goldsmith called memory that fond deceiver. End of quote.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. I want to talk for a second about
Speaker 1: my reporting on two Coomesa. I'm certain my own biases
Speaker 1: have influenced the way that I've perceived him. Maybe the
Speaker 1: lack of actual facts, whether they've disintegrated through time or
Speaker 1: whether they were just simply not recorded. Our image of
Speaker 1: the man today is certainly veiled. However, we have wrestled
Speaker 1: with the data points we have, and we've told this
Speaker 1: story to the best of our ability. It's wild to
Speaker 1: think about how in a little over two years, just
Speaker 1: two into revolutions around the sun can make history so
Speaker 1: hard to understand how much more the ancient folsome bison
Speaker 1: hunters or humans even deeper in history than that compared
Speaker 1: to them. Two comes to is a very modern man.
Speaker 1: But what an enigma he still is. Maybe Grantlee Buffalo
Speaker 1: got it right with his mysterious nonsensical lyrics in the
Speaker 1: Last Days It comes to Song. Here's more from Chief
Speaker 1: Ben Barnes described to me how two comes to in
Speaker 1: his legacy life leadership for the Shanny Nation. Would how
Speaker 1: do you view him today? Who? Who? Who is he?
Speaker 1: To you? Does he stand out? You know, he's he's
Speaker 1: this one leader that we've kind of cherry picked out
Speaker 1: to talk about in highlight? Is that the way? Would
Speaker 1: you view him as a significant leader in the shawn
Speaker 1: I definitely view him as a significant leader. I think
Speaker 1: people are a little overweight fixated on him because there's
Speaker 1: also black hoof cornstock, blue jacket, a host of others.
Speaker 1: There's an unknown woman in the pages of history, and
Speaker 1: upon Shawnee's arrival into Oklahoma and the forcing of allotments
Speaker 1: on her people, she became a prophet and that of
Speaker 1: a religious movement and nearly militarized the Shawnee people and
Speaker 1: other tribes of Oklahoma to rise up against Indian agents.
Speaker 1: So there's almost an uprising. History didn't even bother to
Speaker 1: record her name, and so here she is leading a
Speaker 1: religious movement that's as fundamental and it speaks to the
Speaker 1: heart of people as much as it comes his time.
Speaker 1: So is he important, absolutely, But he also you know,
Speaker 1: he is in a long line. He's a Shawnny heroes.
Speaker 1: He's a product of those. He's standing on the shoulders
Speaker 1: of other giants and he's not standing on that shoulder alone.
Speaker 1: He has his brother tin squad the way with him.
Speaker 1: You know, he was a man that lived within a
Speaker 1: Shawnee community that whenever his people gathered to go worship,
Speaker 1: he would have been one of those people. He wouldn't
Speaker 1: have been set apart. And if you watch those men
Speaker 1: file file in to their traditional place of worship, you
Speaker 1: wouldn't even be able to pick him out which one
Speaker 1: he was. He wouldn't be at the necessarily be at
Speaker 1: the head of the line, he wouldn't necessarily be at
Speaker 1: the back of the line. He would occupy the space
Speaker 1: that they needed him for that day. So what they
Speaker 1: needed in that day is they needed somebody to say,
Speaker 1: you know, these these policies of our past are not working.
Speaker 1: It's time to take up arms. It's time to lead
Speaker 1: this Pan Indiana revolution. That was what he believed. So
Speaker 1: that's who he was. He was a product of his time.
Speaker 1: Tell me if this is right that what I'm hearing
Speaker 1: you say about two Coomesa. It's kind of like that
Speaker 1: sentence that what's important is what happened, not who did it? Yeah,
Speaker 1: And also to put him in their context is this
Speaker 1: is their communities, the products of their communities. And also
Speaker 1: so you you don't you It's it's like you're saying,
Speaker 1: you're not saying, don't give credit to two Comesa, but
Speaker 1: you're saying it's got to be viewed inside a community.
Speaker 1: And that's a that's a bizarre thing for a Western
Speaker 1: thinker to think about. I had a friend call it radical,
Speaker 1: and so that's a radical way of thinking about things.
Speaker 1: But really it's true of all of us, isn't it.
Speaker 1: Didn't you the things your mom, dad, and uncles all
Speaker 1: do you do? These things exactly use an individual? How
Speaker 1: much that it was really you, I mean, and not
Speaker 1: them setting you up for those successes. That's a great
Speaker 1: example of the world view of the Shawnee versus even
Speaker 1: what I'm trying to do inside of telling this story,
Speaker 1: I mean, and that's why I came to you, is
Speaker 1: because I wanted to to see how you would view
Speaker 1: this guy. And every time I ask you about him,
Speaker 1: you keep bringing it back to the community and back
Speaker 1: to what he actually did and how he wouldn't have
Speaker 1: stood out. Which that's so interesting to me because when
Speaker 1: I heard about two come so, I wanted to make
Speaker 1: him like this hero that just stood above everybody. And
Speaker 1: that's not what you're saying, no very much. So he's
Speaker 1: a man, and you know the he has many He
Speaker 1: probably made as many mistakes as he does successes. He
Speaker 1: was a product of his time. Westerners typically defined great
Speaker 1: us by difference. This man was great because he was
Speaker 1: so different. He was heading shoulders above others. He stood out.
Speaker 1: The Shawnees would have been more focused on the verbs
Speaker 1: the action, rather than the noun the name the person.
Speaker 1: Remember our language lesson from episode two. What got done
Speaker 1: was more important than who did it. Westerners want a
Speaker 1: hero to make a granted statue out of, and the
Speaker 1: Shawnees wanted a homeland nation of their own, and they
Speaker 1: didn't care who stepped up to make it happen. Perhaps
Speaker 1: that's an exaggeration, but that's what I'm hearing the chief say.
Speaker 1: Here's his answer of a very tough question. Do you
Speaker 1: view two Kumsa as successful and what he did? Because
Speaker 1: at an external level you would say he wasn't successful
Speaker 1: because it didn't happen the way he wanted it to.
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know if a Canadian would say that. Okay,
Speaker 1: imagine that spine that was shown there, and that the
Speaker 1: battle attempts and when they said okay, British retreated but
Speaker 1: not us, today's the day we die? And who won
Speaker 1: the War of eighteen twelve? We don't teach that American
Speaker 1: studies for a reason. Canadians were very Canadian about it.
Speaker 1: Derect Okay, let's go back to the borders the way
Speaker 1: they were. There have been some other country. New York
Speaker 1: State would be all Canadian. So you know they won
Speaker 1: that warm So was his efforts unsuccessful? I don't know
Speaker 1: Canada one. And he threw in with Canadians in the British,
Speaker 1: so he may have died in that war, but I
Speaker 1: would think Canadians would would argue otherwise that he's certainly
Speaker 1: not a failure, and I think this entity that's become
Speaker 1: our memory of two coomes to I think that also
Speaker 1: still has some value for any people as a way
Speaker 1: to look up to. That's like, Okay, okay, this is
Speaker 1: a larger than my figure. But if I can just
Speaker 1: remember that he was just a man, that just a
Speaker 1: man or just a woman can do incredible acts. Is
Speaker 1: that individuals matter. Individuals matter. That's good. I now want
Speaker 1: to talk with him about the history of the Shawnee,
Speaker 1: and that's going to help us understand the current context
Speaker 1: of the modern Shawnee Nation. It could feel like we're
Speaker 1: going backwards, but we're not. Here's Chief Ben Barnes talking
Speaker 1: about the importance of understanding the different tribes as separate
Speaker 1: entities and an example of what makes a Shawnee a Shawnee.
Speaker 1: So I think one of the examples that I like
Speaker 1: to use is I think every American, at least intuitively
Speaker 1: that's at some level, understands that Ireland and Italians are
Speaker 1: completely different countries, completely different cultures. But if you look
Speaker 1: at the distance overland, it's really not that far. At
Speaker 1: the distance between Ireland and Italy, well, here in the
Speaker 1: United States, we're talking about tribal nations. And if I
Speaker 1: was talking about the Shawnees and Pawnees, people say, oh,
Speaker 1: those those must be similar because the names are similar.
Speaker 1: Well if they don't understand that tribes are very much different.
Speaker 1: There were as different from each other as the Italians
Speaker 1: are from the Irish. And they think that everybody living
Speaker 1: in one area is going to be very similar. Well,
Speaker 1: that's not true for Shawnee people. You know, we had
Speaker 1: very We were very peculiar in the way that our
Speaker 1: communities were formed. We didn't have like one elected big
Speaker 1: man that everybody followed, right, and that that big man
Speaker 1: terminology I think comes from anthropology. So it was a community.
Speaker 1: The community would set apart people that had had shown
Speaker 1: particular wisdom generally were older, and those older folks would
Speaker 1: guide the hands of what appeared to people on the
Speaker 1: outside of being chiefs leaders. These guys are just speakers.
Speaker 1: Speakers on behalf of those old folks of those wise
Speaker 1: and leaders. So that's one aspect. So the so the
Speaker 1: organized structure of leadership would have been different unique to
Speaker 1: the Shawnees, and that they didn't have leaders. They did
Speaker 1: have a point of leaders, but they could be torn
Speaker 1: down at a Moment's notice that if somebody tried to
Speaker 1: act unilaterally without going back to the community and having
Speaker 1: a community involved in those decisions. So would there be
Speaker 1: other Native American tribes that would have had what we
Speaker 1: would perceive as just a chief that was I don't
Speaker 1: think it's I think it's more nuanced than that, because
Speaker 1: like when we talk about Cherokees, with the modern day
Speaker 1: thing that you think of as Cherokees or Shawnee is
Speaker 1: not like it was back then, and so well, I
Speaker 1: can't speak as much about therap particular histories or any
Speaker 1: of those tribes in this region. I think we have
Speaker 1: to understand that that they're much more nuanced that some
Speaker 1: of these some of the ways that they had came
Speaker 1: together were because of incursions by Europeans into their their territories.
Speaker 1: So groups would come together and co esced into confederacies
Speaker 1: like you see amongst the Miskogeans speaking people's. But for
Speaker 1: Shawnee people, we had always kind of been scattered apart
Speaker 1: from each other. The only thing that I can compare
Speaker 1: it to for some Americans that they can relate to
Speaker 1: is like a Jewish diaspora. So I may I may
Speaker 1: live in Los Angeles. But how I go into Jewish synagogue.
Speaker 1: I'm at home, right, I know what's going on. I
Speaker 1: know how to act, know how to be people to
Speaker 1: who identify as me as you know, as Jewish, I
Speaker 1: fellow worshiper. So for Shawnee people, they can move. But
Speaker 1: we lived across twenty historic states, more than twenty US
Speaker 1: historic states. We had treaties with France, England, Spain, and
Speaker 1: later it was with Mexico or even Republic of Texas
Speaker 1: and of course United States. Groups of people of racial
Speaker 1: types don't engage in treaty making processes. Uses the Shawnee
Speaker 1: Nation is engaged in making treaties with Spain, making treaties
Speaker 1: with Europeans to carve out spaces for you know where
Speaker 1: these European activities can occur. What what does tribal sovereignty mean? Well,
Speaker 1: since you say asked that question, allow me to proselytize
Speaker 1: you into the Good Word or the United Nations Declaration
Speaker 1: the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, where we've codified what we believe,
Speaker 1: what we think is inherent to our people's that these
Speaker 1: things have pre existed, nations coming and arriving on these shores,
Speaker 1: that we believe that these principles are enshrined in our
Speaker 1: very nature of sovereignty, that we have the rights that
Speaker 1: the other nations do. I was at the United Nations
Speaker 1: Permanent Form of Indigenous People's earlier this year, and as
Speaker 1: I was walking by looking at the various nations from
Speaker 1: around the world, it was like a fifth of those
Speaker 1: nations had a lower GDP than the Cherokee Nation and
Speaker 1: the Seminole tribe. It's like, how is that? How come
Speaker 1: they have a seat there whenever check Nation and similar
Speaker 1: nations have a bigger GDP. So it just, you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of baffling. It's kind of baffling that
Speaker 1: they built the United Nations not for us or for
Speaker 1: our inclusion. But it's like so it's like, okay, we see,
Speaker 1: I see how this is. But it's very strange to
Speaker 1: me that, so do you feel like you don't have
Speaker 1: the functional sovereignty that you want. I think that sovereignty
Speaker 1: will always be a push pool. I think I think
Speaker 1: that we live in a very interesting time. There's some
Speaker 1: advantages right now if I think that tribal nations can
Speaker 1: take advantage of People are watching Rutherford Falls and they're
Speaker 1: seeing messages being delivered on conversations that we've only dreamed
Speaker 1: about talking about publicly, and they're having them in the
Speaker 1: open to millions of viewers. People are excited about Reservation Dogs,
Speaker 1: and they're binging the first two episodes this very week.
Speaker 1: We have dark Winds. So we have all these native
Speaker 1: productions that are coming out, and some of these Native productions,
Speaker 1: like the one being done Stirring har Joe and Takawaiti
Speaker 1: down to craft services, it's indigenous people's making this film.
Speaker 1: The gaffers, everybody on the film set, writers all Indigenous.
Speaker 1: So we sit in this juncture where we have Native
Speaker 1: people's occupying the cultural hegemony that Americans always wanted us
Speaker 1: to have. Really, they want these stories, but now we
Speaker 1: get to be once telling them it's not Kevin Costner,
Speaker 1: it's not Avatar, because Avatar's basically dance at the Wolves.
Speaker 1: Are am I right? It's it's yeah, it dances at
Speaker 1: the Wolves in space, So it's really a West It's
Speaker 1: really think about that. One's a little bit over my head.
Speaker 1: You're watching Dances of the Wolves and then watch your Avatar,
Speaker 1: same movie, same movie. Yeah, and that's a conversation Indian
Speaker 1: people are having the rest of the world's not, but
Speaker 1: when you watch it you'll see them, right, Okay, and
Speaker 1: uh so having these conversations front and center, now people
Speaker 1: are like, I see, I get it now, I get
Speaker 1: what the issues are. Are starting to understand some of
Speaker 1: the issues. Or when an end joke happens on rather
Speaker 1: for false and you're like, what's that about? What's an
Speaker 1: in joke? And they go and they look it up
Speaker 1: on Google and oh, that's it, that's what that is.
Speaker 1: Were the one with the They burned out the owl
Speaker 1: on Reservation Dogs the prior season and I think this
Speaker 1: season two and the most recent episode, they blurred out
Speaker 1: the owl, which is a cultural joke that folks from
Speaker 1: certain certain woodland cultures house seeing an owl can be
Speaker 1: bad luck in certain instances. Okay, they blurred him out,
Speaker 1: They blurred out. They burreed him out, you know I
Speaker 1: like to do. And like if somebody's naked on the screen,
Speaker 1: they're burned out the owl that same way they pixelated,
Speaker 1: so it's an inside We're not gonna look at that.
Speaker 1: So they blurted out for television, which is hysterical. So
Speaker 1: we have an opportunity to tell native stories and you know,
Speaker 1: I'm glad that Taiko y t T used his opportunity
Speaker 1: as an indigenous person from from New Zealand, as a
Speaker 1: Maori person, to leverage that for a situation here and
Speaker 1: here in the United States and in the rest of
Speaker 1: North America to create films about us for us. So,
Speaker 1: as a child of the eighties, I remember Cool Jay
Speaker 1: in a commercial and he had foodboo gear on. So
Speaker 1: for us, by us. You know nothing about us without
Speaker 1: us or doing things with not for you know, you
Speaker 1: need to do things with us, not for so in
Speaker 1: a lot of this academic scholarship, it's being written. You know.
Speaker 1: That's why when you said you wanted to come here today,
Speaker 1: we're like, heck yeah, because a lot of people have
Speaker 1: the podcast and never never even come to visit Shawney people.
Speaker 1: I think we're all grateful for the Chief's willingness to
Speaker 1: talk to us. You know, I gave him a jar
Speaker 1: of bear grease as a token of my appreciation, and
Speaker 1: I told him with all sincerity that I would supply
Speaker 1: him with bear grease for life, which in my world
Speaker 1: is amongst the greatest gestures of friendship. And I meant it.
Speaker 1: And if for some reason in the future, I'm unable
Speaker 1: to personally feel their bear grease needs. I'll be relying
Speaker 1: on some of you to help me fulfill my vow.
Speaker 1: Here's the Chief talking about one of his biggest initiatives,
Speaker 1: preservation of the Shawnee language. We are very fortunate. For
Speaker 1: a long time, you know, we were a tribe without
Speaker 1: without much in the ways of financial means. You know,
Speaker 1: we did not have a lot of money. Was what
Speaker 1: kept us together was our language, our culture, and our
Speaker 1: religion and our sense of identity. And so we still
Speaker 1: have our ancestral religion that still exists. We're really lucky
Speaker 1: we still have language speakers. So it's not good. The
Speaker 1: situation is not good for any tribal language across the
Speaker 1: United States, just because that's the way it is across
Speaker 1: the entire planet. Every two weeks language dies. So every
Speaker 1: two weeks somewhere on the global native language dies. There's
Speaker 1: about six thousand languages has been spoken right now, and
Speaker 1: I think by the end of the century they predict
Speaker 1: will be just down to a couple of hundred. So
Speaker 1: one of those weeks will be ours if we don't
Speaker 1: do anything. So when I become chief, just right before
Speaker 1: the global pandemic. First thing we did was declare state
Speaker 1: of emergency for Shawnee language. The second thing we did
Speaker 1: is we had adopted the UNESCO's International Year of Indigenous
Speaker 1: Languages and so that we tasked our team too. We
Speaker 1: created the International Year of Shawnee Language, asked them to
Speaker 1: create a decade long plan to restore and revive our
Speaker 1: language and get more, get more fluent speakers because it
Speaker 1: was it was dying. It was the only people. The
Speaker 1: only speakers we had were elderly people. And so subsequently
Speaker 1: we adopted the UNESCO International Decade of Indigenous Languages. We
Speaker 1: adopted that and out of that we created a tenure
Speaker 1: plan to save our languages. As of a January or
Speaker 1: earlier this year, what amount of four percent of the
Speaker 1: tribes population was enrolled in a language program. So and
Speaker 1: we had created UH. We created a host of new
Speaker 1: volunteer teachers. They were there really community language activists. As
Speaker 1: for what they really are, the language is everything. And
Speaker 1: like we said before, it's believed less than two fifty
Speaker 1: people on planet Earth currently speak Shawnee. It was once
Speaker 1: the trade language of the Ohio River Valley. Indians from
Speaker 1: other tribes spoke Shawnee to maintain relevance and trade the
Speaker 1: greatest orator potentially in American history. Two Compsa spoke Shawnee
Speaker 1: as his native tongue. Boone and Simon Kenton spoke quite
Speaker 1: a bit of Shawnee. This language is important to American history.
Speaker 1: Here's a big question for the chief. What what is
Speaker 1: the big picture of what you, as the chief of
Speaker 1: the Shawnees is trying to do inside of two inside
Speaker 1: of this country. You know, we hear about the plights
Speaker 1: of these other ethnic groups inside the country that are
Speaker 1: at the forefront of media and stuff. What do you
Speaker 1: guys trying to do? So I had a seventh grade
Speaker 1: asked me that question, and it was he asked me
Speaker 1: a question, but not in that way. It was a
Speaker 1: sometimes because of COVID, we haven't done a lot outreach.
Speaker 1: And this past year, you know, he was like, we're
Speaker 1: going to have to start back our outreach into communities.
Speaker 1: So we visited a school. It was seventh grade class,
Speaker 1: and he asked, is what's your job? Wow, that's that's
Speaker 1: a stinct way to ask what you just asked? Yeah,
Speaker 1: And he said what's your job? And I was like, Wow,
Speaker 1: no one's ever put it that way, and so I
Speaker 1: actually it took me back and I thought, man, this
Speaker 1: is why I needed more of these grade school of
Speaker 1: because they asked some really no filters, and they ask
Speaker 1: really sharp questions because they don't have any assumptions, and
Speaker 1: I had to explain them and even to myself. Really,
Speaker 1: my job is to undo the effects of our removal.
Speaker 1: That's my job. So that means the wealth of the tribe,
Speaker 1: find ways to restore that land of the tribe, findal
Speaker 1: ways restore that to protect and be a warrior for
Speaker 1: our language, to make sure that our culture survives for
Speaker 1: another millennia. To make sure that you know what we
Speaker 1: are as a people. These sovereign rights, these national rights
Speaker 1: that we have that we had prior to the United States,
Speaker 1: that we prior had prior encountering the Spanish, French, and English,
Speaker 1: that those are those remain secured. So we spent a
Speaker 1: lot of time on the road at state capitals, We
Speaker 1: spent a lot of time in d C. And some
Speaker 1: of it is educational work, some of its lobbying work.
Speaker 1: Some of it is advocacy for issues to getting to
Speaker 1: legislative trying to get some legislation started on some issues,
Speaker 1: So that's part of the work, but it's also a
Speaker 1: building community and truly because of what's happened to our people,
Speaker 1: the diaspora that happened in our removal, it's finding new
Speaker 1: ways for people to connect as a community because as
Speaker 1: we talked about earlier communities, the core, it's at the
Speaker 1: center of the language. So that that removal just broke
Speaker 1: down the culture. It was damaging. It did not destroy it,
Speaker 1: because it's did that. It existed in a chrysalis of
Speaker 1: sorts because we were removed and then we were sent
Speaker 1: to Kansas. Then we're from Kansas. We were the loyal Shawnees,
Speaker 1: fought for the Union, sent it an a territory to
Speaker 1: live amongst Cherokees, who we just got done fighting. They
Speaker 1: were they were part of the Confederacy. So that was
Speaker 1: I'm sure that was interesting times. But because of that,
Speaker 1: it almost became like a rural ghetto right for Shawny
Speaker 1: people because we didn't speak Cherokee, we didn't worship Cherokee,
Speaker 1: we worked Cherokee. But we're living amongst the center Cherokees.
Speaker 1: So what did we have to do other than cleveland
Speaker 1: to each other. So you know, that community became almost
Speaker 1: I don't say an amber, but very much a cloistered community,
Speaker 1: I say, and that helped preserve it ironically and almost
Speaker 1: destroyed it once, Uh, the nineteen sixties and seventies, when
Speaker 1: you saw a lot of people, you know, moving on
Speaker 1: into moving into a lot of urban and suburban communities
Speaker 1: to take jobs. So now we've seen that revitalization. So
Speaker 1: what what does a Shawnee nation look like that you
Speaker 1: would see and would want and would be happy with.
Speaker 1: We have citizens that live in fifty states where the
Speaker 1: Shawnee Tribe of everywhere. We have sister tribes in Eastern
Speaker 1: Shawnee Tribe Oklahoma and the Absentutee Shawnee Tribe Oklahoma. But
Speaker 1: we live in fifty states. And so what I would
Speaker 1: like is I would like for them to feel like
Speaker 1: they're connecting no matter how far away they are, but
Speaker 1: they know that they know that there's a home, that
Speaker 1: there's always been a home, and it's our tradition that
Speaker 1: they're always known that it's home. So that noma and
Speaker 1: also you know, to reinstill that idea that the k
Speaker 1: Bikolita and Michael Jake, these are the traditional divisions of
Speaker 1: the Shawnee Tribe like families. Inside of a family, that idea,
Speaker 1: you know, you may feel that you're little different than
Speaker 1: those others. That you may have different political ideologies, you
Speaker 1: may have different ideas on certain types of freedoms that
Speaker 1: you think you can get, that you should do you
Speaker 1: have for the United States. But we're all part of
Speaker 1: the same community. That we're not separate, We're not a
Speaker 1: part were one. And I think that's a message that
Speaker 1: Americans can learn from the Shawnees today. I've learned a
Speaker 1: lot in this series, not just historic data about a
Speaker 1: man's life, but we've been able to peer into an
Speaker 1: ancient culture. But maybe more importantly, I feel like I
Speaker 1: have a greater understanding of the personal stress inflicted on
Speaker 1: the individuals in a society in a crisis. A story
Speaker 1: is always told from a certain point of occupancy, and
Speaker 1: I am not a Shawnee, but I've tried to lean
Speaker 1: in hard into understanding what it would have been like
Speaker 1: to be one during that time. With all our fancy technology,
Speaker 1: we can't alter the past. All we can do is
Speaker 1: look to the future with the knowledge of what happened before. Honestly,
Speaker 1: I hope we'd come away with a new understanding for
Speaker 1: how deeply complex the situation was in a genuine empathy,
Speaker 1: producing positive action towards indigenous peoples and the things they
Speaker 1: view as important to them. In modern times, when these
Speaker 1: series come to a close, I often find myself in
Speaker 1: a state of melancholy. Probably never again in my life
Speaker 1: will I be as mentally and emotionally engaged in this story.
Speaker 1: The life of this man t comes to a man
Speaker 1: who I did not know. We don't even have a
Speaker 1: real picture of him. There are no audio recordings of
Speaker 1: his voice. But I feel like I was there and
Speaker 1: saw the panther comet cross the sky when two Comsa
Speaker 1: was born about two arrow flights south of the village.
Speaker 1: I felt his depression when he broke his leg and
Speaker 1: acquired the limp that he believed would make him useless
Speaker 1: in war. I felt his courage when he toood against
Speaker 1: the trend, admonishing those around him not to torture prisoners.
Speaker 1: I felt his grief when he lost his father, his leaders,
Speaker 1: and his brother to war. I felt his anger when
Speaker 1: the treaties were broken in the boundary lines were crossed.
Speaker 1: I felt the passion of his brother's vision of the
Speaker 1: Master of life, and the inspiration that it gave to
Speaker 1: their people. I felt his strength when he spoke with articulation,
Speaker 1: power and authority on the destiny of their Indian nation
Speaker 1: and land. And I felt a sultry sadness beyond justifiable
Speaker 1: rationale when I learned how he was killed, his body
Speaker 1: desecrated and buried in a mass grave. Of these things
Speaker 1: I do not know their resolution or if it is
Speaker 1: possible to amend the wrongs of a path so long ago.
Speaker 1: Though he was a flogged man just like us, he
Speaker 1: wasn't Deity come to Earth. But in the words of
Speaker 1: Chief Ben Barnes, he is just a man who occupied
Speaker 1: the space that his people needed him for that day,
Speaker 1: and because of that, I have deep respect for the
Speaker 1: man to come. So I can't thank you enough for
Speaker 1: listening to Bear Greece. If you've enjoyed this series, share
Speaker 1: it with a friend, save us review on iTunes, do
Speaker 1: all the silly stuff and all this podcasters asked everyone
Speaker 1: to get. I hope you have a great week, and
Speaker 1: I look forward to talking this over with the folks
Speaker 1: on the Render next week. M We well, what's the
Speaker 1: next time? M