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Speaker 1: Hey fam, Hello Sunshine. Today on the bright Side, it

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Speaker 1: is World Mental Health Day. We're joined by Anna Marie Tendler,

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Speaker 1: the author of the New York Times bestseller men Have

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Speaker 1: Called Her Crazy.

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Speaker 2: It's Thursday, October tenth. I'm Danielle Robe and.

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Speaker 3: I'm Simone Boyce and this is the bright Side from

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Speaker 3: Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we come together to

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Speaker 3: share women's stories, laugh, learn and brighten your day.

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Speaker 1: How many of us could fill a book with our

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Speaker 1: bad relationship stories. I know I have a few.

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Speaker 2: Well, our guest today did just that.

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Speaker 1: Anna Marie Tendler penned men have Called Her Crazy in

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Speaker 1: introspective memoir that begins with her checking herself into a

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Speaker 1: psychiatric hospital in a desperate attempt to heal, and throughout

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Speaker 1: her experience there, she weaves in these reflections from the

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Speaker 1: relationships that she's had over the years with men.

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Speaker 3: And some very high profile relationships at that And I

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Speaker 3: think that's one of the reasons why there's been so

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Speaker 3: much anticipation around the release of this memoir, because people

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Speaker 3: expected her to talk about some of those celebrity relationships.

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Speaker 3: I mean, most notably, Anna Marie Tenler went through a

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Speaker 3: very public divorce with her ex husband and comedian John Mulaney.

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Speaker 3: But you won't find his name mentioned once in this book, y'all.

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Speaker 3: And she says that's by design.

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Speaker 1: It's definitely a specific choice and one that interests me

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Speaker 1: because throughout the book she basically shares that her life

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Speaker 1: has been defined and controlled by her relationships with men,

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Speaker 1: and now in this book, it's finally about her.

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Speaker 3: I read the book, and I found so many of

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Speaker 3: the passages to be very compelling and relatable, especially as

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Speaker 3: she's remembering her encounters with powerful men as a young woman.

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Speaker 3: And then for me, the book also raised questions about

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Speaker 3: what it looks like to hold others accountable for how

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Speaker 3: they have disrespected you or disappointed you, and also what

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Speaker 3: it looks like to maintain a sense of personal accountability,

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Speaker 3: which is essential for all of us to move forward

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Speaker 3: in an empowered fashion. Well, we're going to ask her

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Speaker 3: all these questions and more. She's here with us now,

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Speaker 3: So let's welcome here in Anna Marie Tyler. Welcome to

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Speaker 3: the bright Side.

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Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having me.

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Speaker 1: So this book begins with you checking yourself into a

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Speaker 1: psychiatric hospital and you became suicidal. Can you describe the

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Speaker 1: conditions that led you to check into a psychiatric hospital.

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Speaker 5: I think, like so many people, it was a culmination

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Speaker 5: of things that had started happening way earlier in life,

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Speaker 5: but certainly around that time.

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Speaker 4: The pandemic did not help.

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Speaker 5: It was very isolating, anxiety and doucing. I began going

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Speaker 5: through a divorce. I was in the middle of graduate school.

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Speaker 5: It was as if like a lot of little things

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Speaker 5: had kind of piled all on top of each other

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Speaker 5: to the point where it just became obvious to me

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Speaker 5: that I needed some type of help.

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Speaker 3: I really appreciated hearing your perspective and just your experience

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Speaker 3: inside the hospital, because it honestly took me back to

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Speaker 3: when I was a child. I had a family member

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Speaker 3: who was hospitalized, and by hearing your perspective, I think

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Speaker 3: I can understand that family member a bit better and

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Speaker 3: what they went through. At the same time, Anna, most

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Speaker 3: people who have experienced what you've experienced hospitalization for mental

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Speaker 3: health reasons, nobody wants to relive that. So the fact

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Speaker 3: that you wrote a book about it is really brave.

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Speaker 3: What gave you the courage to write this book.

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Speaker 5: I think that some of it is when you write

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Speaker 5: a memoir you really have to dive into the naivete

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Speaker 5: of what writing a memoir is. You kind of have

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Speaker 5: to suspend disbelief bit and be like, oh, no, one,

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Speaker 5: we'll read this. This is just for me. This is

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Speaker 5: just an exercise with me and an editor. And so

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Speaker 5: certainly when I was writing it, I wanted to write

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Speaker 5: it as unself consciously as possible. It had been a

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Speaker 5: really long time since I had read a memoir that

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Speaker 5: spoke to mental health or hospitalization. And when I was

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Speaker 5: in high school, I had read Girl Interrupted, which I

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Speaker 5: think is an amazing account of being hospitalized, but that

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Speaker 5: was written in the seventies. So often, whether it be

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Speaker 5: in books like fiction or in movies, we have this

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Speaker 5: really kind of scary idea of what hospitalization is, like

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Speaker 5: one flew over the Cuckoo's Nest. And I wanted to

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Speaker 5: kind of present a different take on what it means

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Speaker 5: to be hospitalized, also what it means to be voluntarily hospitalized.

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Speaker 5: And I was incredibly lucky that I was hospitalized, you know,

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Speaker 5: in a private hospital. It was not a state hospital,

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Speaker 5: which I know is a totally different experience for people.

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Speaker 5: I also know people who were state hospitalized and saved

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Speaker 5: their life as well, So my goal was to write

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Speaker 5: it in a way that would remove some of the

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Speaker 5: stigma of it. I had a very positive experience, and

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Speaker 5: it certainly saved my life.

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Speaker 3: I was struck by your language throughout the book, because

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Speaker 3: it's at once honest and also precise, even down to

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Speaker 3: the title, including the word crazy in the title, which

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Speaker 3: just brings up so many historical connotations and how that

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Speaker 3: term has been weaponized against women, how other terms like

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Speaker 3: hysteria have been weaponized against women. But through your language

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Speaker 3: and your honesty, and also the way that you describe

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Speaker 3: the women that you are hospitalized with, you really do

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Speaker 3: humanize these women who could be painted with these broad

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Speaker 3: stereotypes about what it looks like to suffer from a

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Speaker 3: mental illness. How did your time in the private psychiatric

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Speaker 3: hospital and the people you met there change your perception

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Speaker 3: of that term crazy, which is so loaded.

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Speaker 5: First of all, thank you so much for the compliment

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Speaker 5: of precise. That is like as a writer, to be

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Speaker 5: told that the writing is precise is very high praise.

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Speaker 4: So I really.

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Speaker 5: Appreciate that cool and I took such care, especially with

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Speaker 5: how I wrote those women. But you know, going into

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Speaker 5: the hospital, it seemed very scary, and people seemed totally unhinged,

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Speaker 5: and what's going to happen to me? And so when

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Speaker 5: I first was about to check in, it was right

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Speaker 5: after the New year, so it was a very quiet time.

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Speaker 5: There were only five of us there, which is pretty atypical.

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Speaker 5: And then the second that I met everyone, it was

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Speaker 5: so disarming. I met these women that ranged from eighteen

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Speaker 5: to me being the oldest at thirty five, and I

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Speaker 5: was like, oh man, we're all just trying to get

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Speaker 5: through it. These women are so interesting and really smart

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Speaker 5: and really cool. We're all at these different stages in

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Speaker 5: our life. And as the book goes on, you know,

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Speaker 5: the house fills in a bit and the vibe changed drastically.

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Speaker 5: So I think I was also incredibly lucky that it

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Speaker 5: was not that many of us and we really got

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Speaker 5: to know each other.

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Speaker 3: There is this chapter in the book I felt like

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Speaker 3: I was really a turning point, not just in the book,

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Speaker 3: but also for you personally. And it's the part when

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Speaker 3: your clinician is reviewing the results of an extensive psychological exam.

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Speaker 3: He's going through and just naming all these characteristics about

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Speaker 3: you that felt accurate to you. But it was almost

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Speaker 3: like you were hearing the language for the first time,

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Speaker 3: or you were able to grasp it for the first time.

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Speaker 3: Characteristics like you're clearly capable of rich abstract thought, you're

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Speaker 3: highly conscientious, you have tendencies towards orderliness. You also get

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Speaker 3: easily overwhelmed when it feels like you might be in

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Speaker 3: trouble or you're disappointing people. And it feels like in

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Speaker 3: that moment you went from invisible to visible or unknowable

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Speaker 3: to knowable. What did that do for you?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean those conversations with that doctor will never

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Speaker 5: leave me. And what was so interesting about it was

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Speaker 5: that it was from a like a three and a

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Speaker 5: half hour long psychiatric evaluation, which, by the way, anyone

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Speaker 5: can have one of those.

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Speaker 2: I want one, now, I want one.

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Speaker 3: Maybe we should do one on the show, Danielle.

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Speaker 5: The one bad thing is that, like they also give

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Speaker 5: you your IQ.

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Speaker 2: No, I was like, I don't nobody needs to see that. Wow,

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Speaker 2: that's quite a significant evil. I just want to.

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Speaker 3: Convince myself I can change my IQ all the time,

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Speaker 3: so like, don't tell me if I'm locked in at

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Speaker 3: a certain QUES.

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Speaker 5: That's why, like in the book, I keep being like,

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Speaker 5: am I smart.

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Speaker 2: Am I average? Am I like?

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Speaker 5: And that was kind of the joke and the funny

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Speaker 5: thing to me because I was just like, Okay, I

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Speaker 5: am going to find out that, like I'm a secret genius.

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Speaker 4: And then it's like, oh no, you're not.

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Speaker 2: You are what you are.

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Speaker 5: So funny, but I went into it not knowing what

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Speaker 5: to expect. I am a conscientious person, so I was like,

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Speaker 5: I want to do my best and then to like

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Speaker 5: just from this three and a half hour test, and

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Speaker 5: this clinician was highly skilled, very good doctor incredible. It

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Speaker 5: was like telling me who I knew myself to be. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: and I had never ever experienced that before. Like even

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Speaker 5: in therapy, I would talk about feeling a certain way,

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Speaker 5: even if it's bad or like low self esteem. It's

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Speaker 5: like okay, but you know that's not true and let's

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Speaker 5: try and like reframe. And this was just like brass tacks,

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Speaker 5: no reframing, no positive spin. It wasn't negative either. It

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Speaker 5: was just like, here are the facts about you. And

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Speaker 5: it blew my mind how accurate it felt and what

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Speaker 5: a life changer.

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Speaker 3: There's no running from it anymore at that point, right

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Speaker 3: like you're gobsmacked with the truth about yourself.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: And also it was like, oh, there's not something.

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Speaker 2: Wrong with me.

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Speaker 5: I think like so many times, especially as women, like

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Speaker 5: we think that there's something wrong with us, and to

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Speaker 5: just be able to say like, oh, yeah, that's that's

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Speaker 5: just me. I'm introverted, or I am afraid of getting

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Speaker 5: in trouble. Like there are things that you can work on,

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Speaker 5: and there are things you can kind of try and change,

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Speaker 5: but some of it is it's just the way you are.

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Speaker 5: But knowing it you can then learn to work with it.

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Speaker 2: It's time for a short break.

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Speaker 1: We'll be right back with Anna Marie Tyler, and we're back.

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Speaker 1: Sophie Gilbert from the Atlantic wrote a review of your

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Speaker 1: book entitled her piece, A Memoir about Recovering from Men.

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Speaker 1: I'm wondering if that feels accurate to you.

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Speaker 5: It did, and I have to say I loved that

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Speaker 5: title so much. After I read it, I reached out

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Speaker 5: to her and I was like, first of all, thank

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Speaker 5: you for taking this on in the Atlantic, And also, man,

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Speaker 5: what a great headline I write about men are they

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Speaker 5: are part of this book, They're certainly not not the

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Speaker 5: whole thing.

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Speaker 4: And I think that.

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Speaker 5: The relationships that I write about They're all problematic, but

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Speaker 5: they're all problematic in different ways. It's not as if

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Speaker 5: the same thing is happening over and over again with

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Speaker 5: these men, like the final result is the same, But

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Speaker 5: there are these nuances over the course of my life

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Speaker 5: and having relationships with men, and then over the course

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Speaker 5: of writing this, I think I really picked up on

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Speaker 5: patterns that I had and patterns that other people have,

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Speaker 5: and ways to identify them, and I think that that

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Speaker 5: is recovery.

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Speaker 1: I want to recount some of the significant relationships and

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Speaker 1: encounters that you detail throughout your life and the book.

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Speaker 1: There's a class mate who violated your boundaries in high school,

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Speaker 1: the twenty eight year old musician you met at sixteen,

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Speaker 1: the wealthy man who convinced you to quit your job

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Speaker 1: in your early twenties.

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Speaker 2: And I'm just scratching the surface.

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Speaker 6: You know.

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Speaker 1: Reading your book, you struck me as someone who has

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Speaker 1: this deep curiosity and someone who seeks out experiences as well.

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Speaker 1: I felt very akin to that, and so I'm personally

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Speaker 1: curious how you feel in hindsight about these moments in reflection.

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Speaker 1: Do you regret any of them? Do you value them,

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Speaker 1: even the painful ones? How do you feel like they

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Speaker 1: have shaped who you are.

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Speaker 4: God.

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Speaker 5: That's such a good question and also so hard to answer.

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Speaker 5: I am who I am because those things happened to me. However,

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Speaker 5: the one with the musician, while it was consensual, it

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Speaker 5: was also illegal. If I could remove that from my past,

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Speaker 5: I think I'd probably be better for it, And I

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Speaker 5: hesitate to be like, I'm glad all these things happen

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Speaker 5: to me, because that kind of makes allowances for really

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Speaker 5: bad behavior from men. They are also to varying degrees,

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Speaker 5: and I think that I learned something from all of them,

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Speaker 5: things to look out for and patterns to not repeat.

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Speaker 5: The thing that came up over and over again is

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Speaker 5: that they are all in some way connected to power.

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Speaker 5: An older man going after a much younger woman, like,

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Speaker 5: there is a power dynamic there. There's a power and balance.

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Speaker 1: You said, we live in a patriarchy, and I feel

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Speaker 1: it all of the time.

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Speaker 2: I'm so curious how you.

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Speaker 1: Feel it day to day and mostly asking for a

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Speaker 1: friend because I find myself feeling it and not being

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Speaker 1: able to articulate it a lot.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think a lot of people feel that way.

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Speaker 5: I certainly feel like that way. Like they'll be things,

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Speaker 5: it will happen, and I'll be like, ah, that was annoying,

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Speaker 5: And then later I'm like, patriarchy, how dare you?

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Speaker 6: But you know, now I live alone in the woods

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Speaker 6: with three cats, so I would say I have minimized,

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Speaker 6: you've removed yourself. Yes, I've minimized the way that the

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Speaker 6: patriarchy affects me. However, Like this is an example that

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Speaker 6: I like to use when I'm dating and I'm like

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Speaker 6: on dating apps and in a conversation with someone who

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Speaker 6: I'm sure is very nice, not malicious, not at all

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Speaker 6: trying to stalk me or murder me, will be like, oh,

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Speaker 6: where do you live? And I'm like, that is a

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Speaker 6: question of a person who has never had to worry

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Speaker 6: about their own safety, you know. And I'll say to

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Speaker 6: them like, oh, I don't tell people where I live.

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Speaker 6: And then they're like, oh, oh, of course, of course,

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Speaker 6: of course. And it's not that I think that those

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Speaker 6: people are bad people, but.

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Speaker 5: I'm like many men don't, not all, but like many

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Speaker 5: men don't have to consider that, like I shouldn't give

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Speaker 5: you my address because like that's actually a safety concern

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Speaker 5: for me, And most men I know don't share their

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Speaker 5: location when they go on a date, or have a

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Speaker 5: friend check in to make sure that everything is going okay.

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Speaker 3: Or cover their drink at a bar.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 5: Yes, And I think that that is just a different

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Speaker 5: way of moving through the world. I feel like I'm

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Speaker 5: constantly reminded of that. If something doesn't work out with

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Speaker 5: something or you don't like something, do I speak up? Like?

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Speaker 5: Is what happens if this person gets angry at me?

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Speaker 5: I feel all that stuff all the time.

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Speaker 1: Do you have any interest in partnering again? Do you

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Speaker 1: want to be with a man at this point?

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Speaker 2: Oh god, this is really hard, so.

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Speaker 5: Like yes and no, it's I was with someone for

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Speaker 5: about like nine months and we were together when this

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Speaker 5: book came out, and about three weeks after it came out,

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Speaker 5: I found out that he had cheated on me. Stop

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Speaker 5: and I'm like, you read the book like really, Like

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Speaker 5: that's that's bold, that's bold. So that really rocked me.

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Speaker 5: I have to say in a way that, like my

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Speaker 5: other breakups didn't, I now find that my relationships with

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Speaker 5: my female friends are much more intimate, much more supportive

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Speaker 5: than any relationship that I've had with a man. I

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Speaker 5: want to show up for something, and like this last one,

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Speaker 5: I feel like I really did show up in a

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Speaker 5: big way. And then it's like, oh, but it happened again.

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Speaker 5: And at a certain point you're sort of like, well, when, okay,

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Speaker 5: Like when do I remove myself from this?

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Speaker 4: But that's also not fair.

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Speaker 5: I'm like, these guys got to get it together, Like

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Speaker 5: do the work please.

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Speaker 2: That's been a theme on our show. We had many

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Speaker 2: people come on and say that.

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Speaker 3: Did that send you into like a psychological relapse or

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Speaker 3: did you feel like you had the tools to power

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Speaker 3: through it.

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Speaker 5: An amazing thing about the book and doing all of

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Speaker 5: the work that I talk about that gets written about

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Speaker 5: in the book is that my ability to mentally and

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Speaker 5: emotionally rebound from these things has gotten so much better.

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Speaker 2: And like, that's amazing, thank you, that's great.

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Speaker 5: Like this last thing that happened when I found out,

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Speaker 5: I was with him at his apartment and I just

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Speaker 5: like got up and packed up all of my stuff,

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Speaker 5: and within twenty minutes I was out the door and

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Speaker 5: I said I wish you well and I left.

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Speaker 4: Wow, And that was the end of the relationship.

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Speaker 5: And I think that if I were in a different place,

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Speaker 5: or if I were younger, or if I had not

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Speaker 5: done all of this work.

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Speaker 4: I could see.

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Speaker 5: A world in which I would have even had a

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Speaker 5: conversation about it, like why did this happen? Crying and yelling,

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Speaker 5: and I was just like, this is not worth any

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Speaker 5: of my energy. I mean, I was so sad and

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Speaker 5: I was so disappointed. And it still feels like a

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Speaker 5: loss out of my life because you're like, oh, I've

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Speaker 5: got to start all over and I miss this person.

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Speaker 5: But never once did I regret walking out the door

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Speaker 5: that quickly. And if we as women can learn to

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Speaker 5: kind of do that and not make space for really

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Speaker 5: bad behavior, I'm just no longer going to make space

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Speaker 5: for bad behavior. It's like you have this one shot,

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Speaker 5: and if you blow it in that way, there is

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Speaker 5: no second chance.

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Speaker 4: I'm gone.

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Speaker 5: I'd rather be by myself. I'd rather be with my cats.

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Speaker 1: Like I like that phrase, I'm no longer making space

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Speaker 1: for bad behavior.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I just I can't.

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Speaker 3: Cats never cheat. A cat will never cheat. We have

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Speaker 3: to take another quick break, but we'll be right back

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Speaker 3: with Anna Marie Tenler.

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Speaker 2: And we're back with Anna Marie Tenler.

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Speaker 3: I thought it was interesting that the word anger is

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Speaker 3: mentioned forty seven times in this book.

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Speaker 2: By my count, I could be wrong, and I could

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Speaker 2: be wrong.

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Speaker 4: Oh my god, I love that you counted.

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Speaker 3: I had a little help from the search bar. I

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Speaker 3: think that women's anger is so often misunderstood in our society,

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Speaker 3: but it's actually a tool. I think that it reveals

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Speaker 3: so much about our desires and what we believe that

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Speaker 3: we're worth. So what has your anger revealed to you

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Speaker 3: on this journey to trusting yourself?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? I completely agree with you.

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Speaker 5: And when you can learn how to tap into your

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Speaker 5: anger and use it constructively, I think there is so

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Speaker 5: much information there that we can glean. And I think

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Speaker 5: that my anger really taught me what I am not

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Speaker 5: willing to tolerate and also what I'm afraid of, because

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Speaker 5: I think that a lot of times what is underneath

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Speaker 5: anger is fear.

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Speaker 4: I'm angry at you because.

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Speaker 5: You cheated on me, of course, like anyone would be

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Speaker 5: angry about that.

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Speaker 4: It's total disrespect.

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Speaker 5: And at the same time, I'm terrified of being alone,

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Speaker 5: of starting over, of like losing connection. I think so

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Speaker 5: often fear can come out as anger, but then other

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Speaker 5: things is just like feeling like you were being pushed

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Speaker 5: or silenced, like don't mess this up for a man,

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Speaker 5: like keep yourself in check and that that information and

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Speaker 5: the anger that I feel there and now going into

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Speaker 5: my life, and when I feel times where anger is

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Speaker 5: really bubbling up, I can sort of look at it

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Speaker 5: and be like, Okay, there is something that is happening

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Speaker 5: here that is not in line with how I want

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Speaker 5: to live, with how I want to have relationships with people,

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Speaker 5: with how I want to move through my life. And

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Speaker 5: if I'm feeling this much anger, like that is a

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Speaker 5: cue for me to really look at what is happening

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Speaker 5: and to decide do I want to be a part

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Speaker 5: of whatever this is? And often the answer to that

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Speaker 5: is now.

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Speaker 1: When your book was first announced, the expectation was it

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Speaker 1: was going to be the Scorched Earth tell All, and

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Speaker 1: it was so the opposite of that. It had everything

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Speaker 1: to do with your own journey. I'm wondering what you

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Speaker 1: hope readers take away from this shift in narrative.

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Speaker 5: You were totally right, Like there was this narrative of like,

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Speaker 5: oh my god, she's going to like spill the tea,

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Speaker 5: She's going to tear it down, And I believe that

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Speaker 5: like that is very patriarchal and misogynistic, because as women,

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Speaker 5: we are expected that we are going to do that.

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Speaker 5: We are expected that we are going to gossip, that

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Speaker 5: we're going to drag somebody. And what you are saying,

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Speaker 5: like you collective you, what you are saying when you

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Speaker 5: put that on women, is that we are somehow operating

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Speaker 5: below how men are operating. Men can remove themselves from

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00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:36,400
Speaker 5: it and write about themselves and write about them are

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Speaker 5: and not get into the nitty gritty and listen. I

404
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 5: completely understand the instinct to be like vindication of things.

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Speaker 5: I do believe that when we do that, it centers

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Speaker 5: the other person. And I think that when no matter

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00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 5: what the story is, whether it's about men or about

408
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 5: terrible things that have happened to us, like you can

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Speaker 5: center it on Okay, here are like the facts of

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Speaker 5: what happened, but it's not this person did this, this

411
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 5: person did this, this person did this, because that is

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Speaker 5: about that person. This happened, and here's how I dealt

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Speaker 5: with it, Here's how it made me feel, Here's how

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Speaker 5: I internalized it and moved forward from there.

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Speaker 4: And so.

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Speaker 5: That was incredibly important for me to do because I

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Speaker 5: had no interest in perpetuating a patriarchal idea and a

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Speaker 5: misogynistic and patriarchal idea about how women behave.

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Speaker 2: I love that answer.

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Speaker 1: I thought about Nora Efron's work quite a bit as

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Speaker 1: well when I was reading your book. I think between

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Speaker 1: like an artistic identity that you have and reinvention and

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00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:15,120
Speaker 1: so many reflections of love and loss. In her book Heartburn,

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Speaker 1: she wrote a quote that's like very well known. Now

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Speaker 1: if I tell the story, I control the version. I

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00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 1: am really dying to know what this book was for you.

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Speaker 1: Was it a reclamation a proclamation? What was at stake

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Speaker 1: for you in sharing your version of the story.

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Speaker 5: So it wasn't quite a reclamation because like that implies

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00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 5: that something was taken from me, And I'm kind of

431
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 5: like I have always been me. I have always been this.

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Speaker 5: No one, no matter what they do to me, can

433
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Speaker 5: like shake who I am and take who I am

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Speaker 5: from me. But I think it was more a proclamation

435
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 5: of here are some of the things that have happened

436
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 5: to me. I am positive that I am not the

437
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,880
Speaker 5: only one. People can read this and extrapolate and put

438
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,439
Speaker 5: their own experiences on it and be like, yeah, I

439
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 5: went through something similar in all things in life. We

440
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 5: give power to things when we talk about them. That

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Speaker 5: is why I wanted to write this book and why

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00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:34,920
Speaker 5: I wanted to talk about In no way was this

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Speaker 5: giving my story over to these men that I wrote about.

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Speaker 5: I really feel like if we don't talk about things

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00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 5: that are happening and make them public and talk about

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00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 5: things that could be happening to other people, that is

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00:27:53,680 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 5: how bad, dangerous or illegal behavior continues to happen. Because

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00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 5: talking about something is the only way that we have power,

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00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 5: the only way that we can find connection with other people,

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00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 5: and the only way that we can hold the society accountable.

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Speaker 3: And just to wrap us up here, there's a phrase

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00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 3: that you wrote to your future self while you were

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00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 3: in treatment. You wrote resilience to survive. What are you

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00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 3: living for now? What makes life worth living?

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Speaker 6: Oh?

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00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 2: Boy?

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00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 5: I mean, I really am so happy to be here,

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00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 5: and like, I love my friends, and I look outside

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00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 5: and like the leaves are changing color and I'm like,

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00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 5: oh my god, how beautiful. And listen, there is also

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00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 5: a lot of really awful stuff happening in the world

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00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 5: right now. And it's not as if I am unaffected

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00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 5: by those things. It's not as if I am unaffected

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00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 5: by ruptures in my personal life. I still have days

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00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 5: that I'm incredibly anxious or I'm incredibly sad, like my

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00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 5: whole personality didn't change. I'm still me, But I trust

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00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 5: that I know how to ask for help and that

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00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 5: there are also people around me that really care for

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00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 5: me and are there if I need them, and I

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00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 5: know what I need as well, And so I think

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00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 5: that having that sort of fortified idea of myself just

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00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 5: makes it easier to move through things that can be

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00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 5: very difficult.

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Speaker 3: Well, Anna, thank you so much for talking with us.

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00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 3: Thank you for your openness. It's not easy to do

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00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 3: with a topic like this.

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00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having me. I really really

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00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 4: enjoyed talking with you.

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Speaker 6: Guys.

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00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 4: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: We love getting to speak with you too. Anna Marie

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00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 1: Tydler is a writer, visual artist and author of the

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00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 1: New York Times best selling memoir Men have called her crazy.

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00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 3: That's it for today's show. Tomorrow, we're popping off with

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00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 3: TV host and producer Naz Perez. Join the conversation using

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00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 3: hashtag the bright Side and connect with us on social

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00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 3: media at Hello Sunshine on Instagram and at the bright

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00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 3: Side Pod on TikTok oh, and feel free to tag

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00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 3: us at Simone Voice and at Danielle Robe.

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00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 1: Listen and follow the bright side on the iHeartRadio app,

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00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 3: See you tomorrow, folks, keep looking on the bright side.