1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,640 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Truth with Lisa Booth, where we get 2 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:06,160 Speaker 1: to the heart of the issues that matter to you. Today, 3 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:11,159 Speaker 1: we're unpacking that massive military parade in Beijing. It was 4 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: the eightieth anniversary military parade where President Xi Jinping, Vladimir Putin, 5 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:20,600 Speaker 1: and Kim Joe Non flex their alliance, sparking Trump's accusations 6 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: of a conspiracy against the United States. So what does 7 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: this mean for America's stance against China? Joining us for 8 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: all of this and more is Gordon Chang. You know him. 9 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:35,240 Speaker 1: He's a leading expert on US China relations and he'll 10 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 1: let us know what we should really believe. 11 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 2: Stay tuned for Gordon Chang. Well, Gordon, it's great to 12 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:44,839 Speaker 2: have you back. 13 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:47,559 Speaker 1: On the program. You know you're always the go to 14 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: on China related matters. So appreciate you for making the time. 15 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 2: Well, thank you, Lisa, I appreciate it. 16 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 3: I wanted it. 17 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 2: Ask you. 18 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: We saw recently this military parade aid in Beijing with 19 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 1: the leaders of North Korea and China and Russia altogether. 20 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 1: What did you think when you saw this? What's the 21 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: significance of it? Is there a significance to it? Kind 22 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:14,959 Speaker 1: of walk us through your line of thinking on. 23 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 3: This, Si Jimping was engaged in information warfare. The most 24 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 3: important audience for him was not us, It was the 25 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 3: Chinese people because he wants to show them the Communist 26 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 3: Party is capable. It is the one responsible for the 27 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 3: rejuvenation of the great Chinese nation, as he puts it. 28 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:37,040 Speaker 3: But we were the secondary audience because Si Jimping wanted 29 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 3: to intimidate the world. He wants to promote the narrative 30 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 3: that China is the dominant power and that the United 31 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 3: States is finished. And so we had this grand parade. 32 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 3: You know, when I saw the parade, I was thinking 33 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 3: of the Chinese military strategists from ancient times, Sun Zu, 34 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 3: and one of his more famous comments is quote when 35 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:02,919 Speaker 3: week appear strong, And that's what we have been seeing, 36 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 3: especially over the last three or four weeks. There's been 37 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 3: an extraordinary amount of Chinese propaganda, state media, communist partny media, 38 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 3: and their informal media promoting this all these weapons that 39 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 3: we were going to see in the parade, and how 40 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:23,519 Speaker 3: strong China is and how much the United States has 41 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 3: been like a finished power. So it got a little 42 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 3: bit too much, and I think, really what they are 43 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:32,920 Speaker 3: doing right now is trying to cover over some big 44 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 3: weaknesses because for all of its weapons, I don't think 45 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 3: that Chinese military is an effective fighting force. 46 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 2: Okay, so that's important. 47 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: Why don't you think they're an effective fighting force right now? 48 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: What's behind the weakness they are suggesting? 49 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 3: The most important thing is the infighting at the top 50 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 3: of the Chinese military. For the last two years, we 51 00:02:55,080 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 3: have seen the disappearances of scores of flag officers. Important 52 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 3: than two of them actually were executed in May, although 53 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 3: we don't know that for sure. But what we are 54 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 3: seeing are signs that Cjanping has lost control of the 55 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 3: Chinese military, and we also have seen signs that he's 56 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 3: lost some influence among civilian leaders, although the objective evidence 57 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 3: for that is not as clear as what we're witnessing 58 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 3: in the military. So with all of this infighting, with 59 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 3: these generals disappearing each other, I think that they're much 60 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 3: more concerned about the guy in the next store than 61 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 3: they are about the United States, or the Philippines or 62 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 3: Taiwan whatever. Got to remember, this is a Chinese This 63 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 3: is a communist military, which means has got two reporting lines, 64 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 3: one military and one political, and the political line is 65 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 3: more important than the military one, and that's no way 66 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 3: to run a war. So I think that, for instance, 67 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 3: if China were to attack some neighbor, you know, they 68 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 3: would do very well for the first week because they 69 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 3: would be just following the plan. But once they were counterpunched, 70 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 3: I think they have a hard time at it. And 71 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 3: this reminds me of that other great strategist, Mike Tyson, 72 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 3: who said everybody has a plan until they're punched in 73 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 3: the face. And I think the Chinese military would have 74 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 3: a hard time doing that. And we've seen some evidence 75 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 3: of the failure of officer leadership of the Chinese military, 76 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 3: especially in June twenty twenty in Galwan, when the Chinese 77 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 3: launched a surprise attack against Indian forces. The Indians, although 78 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 3: they were taken by surprise, got the better of the Chinese, 79 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:37,799 Speaker 3: and that's a real failure of the army leadership. 80 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 1: So what do you think is led has led to 81 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:46,280 Speaker 1: this discord and this disunity in leadership, then. 82 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 3: Well, dissatisfaction with Sijianping. Now, Sijanping has been able to 83 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 3: reshape the Chinese military, especially with the restructuring in the 84 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 3: middle of last decade, which was very successful, but he 85 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 3: is urged a lot of officers, and that's created, of course, 86 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 3: animosity among people who are friendly with the purged officers. 87 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 3: And also I think that there is a natural reaction 88 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 3: to Sijm Pang's grab for power. So, for instance, since 89 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:21,160 Speaker 3: July ninth of last year, in PLA Daily, which is 90 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 3: the Chinese military's main propaganda organ there have been these 91 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 3: series of articles that have been praising quote unquote collective leadership. 92 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 3: That's a direct slap at Sijmping's demand for complete medios 93 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 3: And as he has grabbed more power, he's offended more people, 94 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 3: and eventually there was a tipping point, and this is 95 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 3: I think now we're seeing the results of that. Also, 96 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:53,840 Speaker 3: c Jmpang's policies have not been very successful recently, and 97 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 3: we have seen so many crises and crises in China, 98 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:00,919 Speaker 3: and those are being chalked up to the failure of 99 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 3: Sijm Thing's leadership. So there's this natural reaction to people saying, look, 100 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 3: we can't continue on this path. And people have the 101 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 3: comparency to Mao Zadung, who was responsible for two great 102 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 3: disasters in Communist Party history. One of them was the 103 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 3: Great Leap Forward at the end of the nineteen fifties, 104 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 3: in the beginning of the nineteen sixties, and the Great 105 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:27,039 Speaker 3: Proletarian Cultural Revolution which started in nineteen sixty six and 106 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:29,839 Speaker 3: lasted for a decade. And I think people are starting 107 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 3: to compare See to mal and worrying about disasters that 108 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 3: might fall China because of this mal type leadership. 109 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 1: Do you think is it Trump administration sort of aware 110 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 1: of this disunity? Do you think should we exploit it? 111 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: Or you know, I guess what should we do from 112 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 1: the US perspective on that? 113 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 3: That's a really important question you asked, And I think 114 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 3: that the Trump administration is aware of it. We get 115 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:01,279 Speaker 3: hints of this, only hints, but we get hints from 116 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 3: President Trump's comments about the fragility of the Chinese system, 117 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 3: which he has said about two or three times. 118 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 2: Now. 119 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 3: I think we should exploit it. And this is a 120 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 3: very involved conversation because our natural instincts as Americans is 121 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 3: to offer an olive branch, which President Trump has done 122 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 3: to c jumping, but the Communist Party, and we've rescued 123 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 3: the Communist Party at least three times, and that has 124 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 3: not been good for the United States. 125 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 2: And at least two of those instances. 126 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 3: So I think that we have to understand that the 127 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 3: Communist Party inherently hates the United States. They believe that 128 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 3: they are in an existential struggle with us, and therefore, 129 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 3: I don't think we will ever have amicable relations with 130 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 3: China as long as it's ruled by the Communist Party. 131 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 3: So as much as we would like to have great 132 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 3: relationships with the Chinese people, we can't do that right now. 133 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 3: And we have to understand and that the Communist Party 134 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 3: is as much or even a greater threat than the 135 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 3: Soviet Communist Party was. 136 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 2: Quick break. 137 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: If you like what you're hearing, please share on social 138 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 1: media or maybe send it to a friend. Do you 139 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: think that Trump administration sees that in China, sees China 140 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: has enough of a threat? 141 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 2: No, I don't think so. 142 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 3: I mean, we haven't heard that or any hint of 143 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 3: that from any comment from any senior administration official. And 144 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:36,079 Speaker 3: it's a hard thing for Americans to do because we 145 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 3: always want to think the best of it people, and 146 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 3: we are determined to ignore what our enemies say. For instance, 147 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:47,679 Speaker 3: we ignored Osama bin Laden. We even ignored him after 148 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 3: he killed six Americans at the nineteen ninety three bombing 149 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 3: of the North Tower of the World Trade Center. So, 150 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 3: and this is not just a fault of America, this 151 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:59,959 Speaker 3: is the fault of democracies in general, Tokfeld talked about 152 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 3: in the nineteenth century. So we've got a problem because 153 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 3: as a democracy, we are not taking those measures that 154 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:13,559 Speaker 3: are necessary to protect our republic from unrelenting and malicious 155 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 3: attacks from the Chinese regime. And as history has shown us, 156 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 3: only when our enemies kill a lot of us do 157 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 3: we then start to become determined to protect ourselves. 158 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 2: But now, is that just. 159 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: In rhetoric or an action too, Because sometimes what we've 160 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: seen from President Trump is you know, he'll speak, you know, 161 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 1: he'll say nice things about Putin, but then when you 162 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 1: look at the actions, he's been much tougher on Putin 163 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: than you know, Biden or Obama and like placing sanctions 164 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: or you know, for instance, he'll say nicet, he's about 165 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 1: kimj Noon, but then you know, he shows him a 166 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: video during their summit where like, you know, you've got 167 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 1: two choices. It's either peace or we're going to bomb 168 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: the crap out of you and like basically destroy you know, Like, 169 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: so is it is this just in red or in 170 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 1: his actions are looking different? Right, because sometimes we see 171 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 1: President Trump, you know, kind of try to, you know, 172 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 1: lay on sort of the niceties and play nice, but 173 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: then you know they know he's being serious behind the scenes. 174 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:16,199 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's only one person who can answer that question. 175 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 3: My guess, and it's only a guest from someone who 176 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 3: you know, looks at this from a distance, is that 177 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 3: Trump understands that China is dangerous. But I believe that 178 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 3: the President thinks that he can manage China, and I 179 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 3: don't think he sees China in the same terms as 180 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 3: Reagan saw the Soviet Union. Now, I think that eventually 181 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 3: the Chinese will go too far and force President Trump 182 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 3: to take a more realistic view of China. But remember 183 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 3: Trump is a president in a democratic society, and most 184 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 3: Americans right now, they understand the danger of China, but 185 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 3: they don't have such a dark view of the Chinese 186 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 3: regime as for instance, I do. 187 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 1: President Trump's accused them of conspiring against the United States. 188 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 2: I assume they are right, right, They definitely are. 189 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 3: And it was very very good for President Trump to 190 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 3: say that because he was putting siege and pig on. 191 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,200 Speaker 3: Notice that he knows what these guys are up to, 192 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 3: and also the other message is that Trump is saying, 193 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 3: I'm not afraid of you. And this is important because 194 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 3: the Chinese narrative right now, which Siegenping, they talk to 195 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 3: visiting Americans, they talk to everybody saying that the US 196 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 3: is finished. And so it's important for President Trump to 197 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:49,079 Speaker 3: disabuse them of that and right now. Although I think 198 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 3: the Chinese narrative is absurd because I don't believe that 199 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 3: China is nearly as powerful as the United States, Nonetheless, 200 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 3: my view is a very very small minority one because 201 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 3: a lot of people do believe that cjmping is basically 202 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 3: got the truth, and a lot of Americans think that too, Lisa, 203 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 3: which is a really, really dangerous thing. So I believe 204 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 3: that President Trump needs to reach out do something to 205 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 3: show the Chinese whose boss. We absolutely need to do this. 206 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,439 Speaker 3: This is not something that president of a democratic state 207 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 3: is going to It's not going to be popular. But 208 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 3: if we don't do this, we are in for a 209 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:33,319 Speaker 3: world of hurt because the Chinese are going to continue 210 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:36,199 Speaker 3: extremely belligerent actions against us. 211 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 1: But how strong are these three countries together? Because you 212 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:45,320 Speaker 1: just highlighted some weaknesses within China. North Korea is poor 213 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 1: and isolated, and then Russia has faced a lot of 214 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: sanctions in financial pain as a result of that. And 215 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: then also you know it's bleeding its people and its 216 00:12:56,040 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 1: military dry with this war against Ukraine. So like, collectively, 217 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 1: how strong really are these three nations? 218 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 2: These are three week states, and they've all got different problems. 219 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 3: Russia of course has shown that it is not as 220 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 3: strong as people just assumed, and you know, the Ukrainian 221 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 3: War is still going on, and people are talking about 222 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 3: real problems for Russia a year down the road. China, 223 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:31,680 Speaker 3: I believe, has got an economy which is if it's 224 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 3: not contracting now, it will be contracting soon. And Si 225 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 3: Jimping has no solution for it within the confines of 226 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 3: his political thought. China's facing so many simultaneous crises. I 227 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 3: think the country is in real trouble, which is the 228 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 3: reason why we saw this big parade, the largest military 229 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:56,560 Speaker 3: parade in the history of China. Kim Jong un leads 230 00:13:56,640 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 3: I think the most secure of the three countries because 231 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 3: he's isolated North Korea from the rest of the world, 232 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 3: and he actually had a very good twenty twenty four 233 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 3: as we can see from a number of objective criteria 234 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 3: that's not to say that South North Korea is a 235 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 3: strong state, but I think it's in a pretty good 236 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 3: position when you compare it to the other two. 237 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 1: Now, China, you know, parated some weaponry, weaponry like you know, 238 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: hypersttic missiles, you know, kind of like assessing their military 239 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: advancements on display during the parade. You know, how much 240 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: of a threat does that pose to the United States? 241 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 1: Should we be concerned by what we saw during that 242 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: the parade? 243 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, those weapons, if they are deployed and worked, some 244 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 3: of them are quite actually fearsome, like their hypersonic cruise missiles, 245 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 3: and they're better than what we've got from what we think, 246 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 3: although it's hard to speak with any sense of assurance 247 00:14:57,840 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 3: because we don't know if these weapons in fact have 248 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 3: been deployed, and we don't know how well they work, 249 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 3: and we don't know how well our countermeasures will work. 250 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 3: But yes, they've got some, and you put your finger 251 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 3: on the one which worries me the most, they're hypersonic 252 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 3: cruise missiles, because we may not have a defense for them, 253 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 3: which means we may not have much of a navy, 254 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 3: which is an important point that the Chinese are making. 255 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 3: The you know, we know that they've got long range 256 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 3: ballistic missiles. We saw a new one on a sixteen 257 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 3: wheeled transporter director launcher. That's the DF sixty one. We 258 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 3: saw the new DF five C, the JL three, and 259 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 3: then a DF thirty one. So yeah, these are fearsome weapons, 260 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 3: but we've all known that they've had them for quite 261 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 3: some time. The drones, I think are really interesting because 262 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 3: they are new types of weapons. One thing about the 263 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 3: Ukraine battlefield is told everybody, shown everybody that the future 264 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 3: of warfare is very different than what we tillt five 265 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 3: years ago. So the drones are really an important thing 266 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 3: for us to look at. And China showed off a 267 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 3: lot of them on the third So this is this 268 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 3: is uh, this is a big military. It has got 269 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 3: some pretty good weapons, but it's got some internal problems 270 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 3: that I think make it less fearsome than it appears. 271 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: You know, South Korea is going through a lot of 272 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 1: political turmoil. President Trump recently met with the relatively new 273 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 1: president of South Korea. Obviously South Korea is important to 274 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: us with its proximity to North Korea and then also 275 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 1: to China. What do you make of the recent bilateral 276 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: meeting between the United States and South Korea and kind 277 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 1: of like, how does this new president change the dynamics 278 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 1: that you sort of geopolitical dynamics at play, or does he? 279 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, President Trump met E G. Mung in the Oval Office. 280 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:12,199 Speaker 3: This was perhaps the most important meeting between American and 281 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 3: South Korean presidents. 282 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:16,879 Speaker 2: Ye is a leftist. 283 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 3: He might even be a communist that we don't know, 284 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 3: but he's certainly a determined leftist. And we know that 285 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 3: he hates the United States, and we know this because 286 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 3: of comments that he has made in the past. We 287 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 3: Americans have survived three previous leftists presidents in South Korea, 288 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 3: and I think there's a feeling in Washington, in the 289 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:42,160 Speaker 3: State Department, maybe even the White House that we can 290 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 3: sort of survive Ye, which may be true, but it 291 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 3: also might not be because Ye is much more ruthless 292 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:52,639 Speaker 3: than three previous leftists, and Yee is in office at 293 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,639 Speaker 3: a time when China is more aggressive. So it is 294 00:17:55,680 --> 00:18:00,199 Speaker 3: not inconceivable that within six months people understand and that 295 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:04,159 Speaker 3: South Korea is a leftist dictatorship. It could even be 296 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 3: the world's next communist state, which is not inconceivable. Certainly, 297 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 3: it could become the next Venezuela, and we had a 298 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:18,880 Speaker 3: problem because we have a treaty to protect what could 299 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 3: become a state which is inimicable, inimicable to our interests. 300 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 3: I think President Trump's handling of Ye was masterful. What 301 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:32,919 Speaker 3: he's doing is he's binding Ye with trade and investment agreements. 302 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 3: And if we get through a Ye presidency, and that's 303 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 3: a big if, Lisa, it'll be because of the trade 304 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 3: and investment agreements that we're putting in place. So this 305 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 3: is going to be a very difficult time for us. 306 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 2: Now. 307 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 3: A lot of people in South Korea don't like what 308 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,399 Speaker 3: Ye is doing. And if you know, it's not like 309 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:56,679 Speaker 3: YE can do if you wanted to do what he wanted, 310 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,399 Speaker 3: If he could do what he wanted to do, he 311 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 3: would break a treaty with us, and he would turn 312 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 3: it into a leftist totalitarian state. 313 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:06,200 Speaker 2: Within a month. 314 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 3: But there's a lot of people in South Korea who 315 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:10,480 Speaker 3: don't want him to do that, and so this is 316 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 3: going to be a big contest, and I hope the 317 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:14,919 Speaker 3: Trump administration is fully alive to this. 318 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:16,440 Speaker 2: I think they are. 319 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:19,879 Speaker 3: Because we saw President Trump's truth social posting before he 320 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 3: showed up in the Oval office that indicated that Trump 321 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 3: was aware. 322 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, that was that was sort of you know, it's 323 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:29,199 Speaker 1: kind of an interesting right before he came to kind 324 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 1: of putting in on my notice a little bit. 325 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, and Trump, you know, just sort of let him 326 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:39,680 Speaker 2: have that he have face, which was good. But this 327 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:40,400 Speaker 2: is a struggle. 328 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 3: This is a bigger struggle than Trump had with Moon 329 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 3: Jay in the last of those three leftist presidents, because 330 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 3: Moon was in office when Trump was in office, and 331 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:53,119 Speaker 3: Moon went out of his way to disrespect President Trump. 332 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 2: And this was this was really awful, you know. 333 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:01,880 Speaker 1: Because if memory serves me a quat the previous president 334 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: is currently jailed. 335 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 3: That's right, Yuk y'all was impeached, he was removed by 336 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 3: the Constitutional court. He is now being charged with insurrection. 337 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 3: He is being held in inhumane conditions, denied medication, humiliated 338 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 3: in public with the unauthorized release of footage. His wife 339 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 3: has been charged. She I think fainted in custody three 340 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:33,920 Speaker 3: or four days ago. And this is just shows you 341 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 3: the monstrous nature of v. J. 342 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 2: Boone. 343 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,479 Speaker 1: And then before we go, you know, where does everything 344 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 1: stand with you know, terroriffs and trying to reach a 345 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 1: trade deal with China. I know that a trade between India, 346 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:51,919 Speaker 1: China and Russia has increased, you know, sort of kind 347 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: of where does this all stand with this trade and 348 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:57,439 Speaker 1: tear a face off with China. 349 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:02,119 Speaker 3: We have a ninety day pause in the enhanced tariffs 350 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 3: which expires November ninth. 351 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:05,160 Speaker 2: I believe. 352 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 3: I think the Chinese are going to stall for more 353 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 3: time because I'm not so sure that they the regime 354 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 3: is in a position to make compromises. 355 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 2: Right now. The Chinese have. 356 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 3: Used their card, played their cards by trying to withhold 357 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:28,440 Speaker 3: rare earths and magnets to the United States President and 358 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:32,119 Speaker 3: Trump has not really played his cards. You know, we 359 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,959 Speaker 3: talked about the generosity of the president and sort of 360 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:38,719 Speaker 3: offering an off ramp to see GM ping C is 361 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:43,639 Speaker 3: not really reciprocating. Eventually, President Trump has got to do something. 362 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 3: And here, if I may, one reason why India, which 363 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:51,960 Speaker 3: is natural partner in the United States, has really pissed 364 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 3: at US, is because on August sixth, we announced additional 365 00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:00,159 Speaker 3: twenty five percent tariff on Indian goods because India is 366 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 3: buying Russian crude oil. And the Indians say that that 367 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 3: was unjustified. Well, no it wasn't. It was certainly justified. 368 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,439 Speaker 3: But the Indians have a point because they say that 369 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,639 Speaker 3: it was unfair, and it was deeply unfair because the 370 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 3: United States did not impose the twenty five percent tariff 371 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:18,879 Speaker 3: on China for buying Russian oil, and China was buying 372 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:19,880 Speaker 3: more Russian. 373 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 2: Oil than the Indians. 374 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 3: And matter of fact, since August six, India has been 375 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 3: reducing his purchases of Russian crude and China's been taking 376 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 3: up the slack and we haven't done anything about it. 377 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:31,200 Speaker 3: And this is one of the reasons why the Chinese 378 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 3: think that they own President Trump, because they're saying that 379 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 3: we are afraid of imposing that twenty five percent tariff 380 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:40,880 Speaker 3: on China because China is so magnificent and we're so weak. 381 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,199 Speaker 3: And I think that President Trump needs to impose that 382 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 3: twenty five percent tariff on China because if he doesn't, 383 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 3: the Chinese are going to be more bold and they're 384 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,119 Speaker 3: going to be more aggressive. Then life is going to 385 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:55,919 Speaker 3: become more difficult for us. So I hope that President 386 00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:00,119 Speaker 3: Trump just gets tired of the Chinese trying to humiliate him. 387 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:05,119 Speaker 1: Well, he seems to be getting really frustrated with Putin, 388 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,880 Speaker 1: so you know, yeah, you know. 389 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 3: And I think that shows a pattern that he offered 390 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 3: an offer the Putin Putin didn't take it. Trump, I think, 391 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:15,200 Speaker 3: is going to give him a hard time and C. 392 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 3: Jimping should take that as a warning. But I'm sure 393 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:21,679 Speaker 3: Ce Jimping isn't because he's he's bald and aggressive and 394 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:23,440 Speaker 3: he'll push everybody to the limit. 395 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think President Trump. 396 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:27,640 Speaker 1: You know, you can tell he really starts to get 397 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 1: annoyed when he feels like it's sort of venturing into 398 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 1: being disrespected. Gordon Chang. Appreciate the insights, sir. Thank you 399 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: so much for joining us today, Lisa. 400 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:38,880 Speaker 2: I really appreciate it, and so thank you. 401 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: Those Gordon Chang. Appreciate him for taking the time to 402 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 1: come on the show. Appreciate you guys at home for 403 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 1: listening every Tuesday and Thursday, but you can listen throughout 404 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 1: the week. I also want to thank my producer, John 405 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:49,679 Speaker 1: Cassio for putting the show together. 406 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 2: Until next time.