1 00:00:14,996 --> 00:00:32,996 Speaker 1: Pushkin. When I first got in touch with Fred's daughter Kirsten, 2 00:00:33,356 --> 00:00:35,796 Speaker 1: she told me she and her sisters had tons of 3 00:00:35,836 --> 00:00:41,516 Speaker 1: materials related to Fred's case. Court filings, notes, pictures, police reports, 4 00:00:41,956 --> 00:00:46,516 Speaker 1: tapes of the actual investigation into Fred. All this stuff 5 00:00:46,596 --> 00:00:49,276 Speaker 1: was sitting in boxes in a hayloft at Heidi's place 6 00:00:49,356 --> 00:00:53,436 Speaker 1: in Colorado, which is actually her grandparents ranch where her mother, 7 00:00:53,676 --> 00:00:58,636 Speaker 1: Jean grew up. So over the summer, when all three sisters, Heidi, 8 00:00:58,796 --> 00:01:01,236 Speaker 1: Kirsten and Kim were going to be together at the ranch, 9 00:01:01,956 --> 00:01:04,116 Speaker 1: I went out there to meet them and have a 10 00:01:04,156 --> 00:01:10,236 Speaker 1: look at the trove of documents. We climbed into the 11 00:01:10,236 --> 00:01:13,636 Speaker 1: hayloft and opened a box. It was full of letters 12 00:01:13,676 --> 00:01:16,996 Speaker 1: the sisters had written to Fred. Heidi pulled one out. 13 00:01:17,996 --> 00:01:24,076 Speaker 1: It was in her handwriting. Okay, so this is dated 14 00:01:24,116 --> 00:01:29,396 Speaker 1: April eighteenth, nineteen eighty, or one weeks after he was arrested. 15 00:01:29,636 --> 00:01:34,156 Speaker 1: Weeks after Dear Dad, how are you? I am fine. 16 00:01:34,836 --> 00:01:38,316 Speaker 1: By the way, I'm ten years old to sea. I 17 00:01:38,436 --> 00:01:41,076 Speaker 1: had a fun time talking to you. I hope you 18 00:01:41,196 --> 00:01:44,756 Speaker 1: have a happy, happy Easter. I miss you very very 19 00:01:44,876 --> 00:01:49,356 Speaker 1: very much. Here's a joke. Knock knock, who's there? Boo? Hoo. 20 00:01:49,596 --> 00:01:52,556 Speaker 1: Why are you crying? I wish you could come out 21 00:01:52,596 --> 00:01:56,476 Speaker 1: of jail soon. You never did anything wrong. I love you. 22 00:01:56,756 --> 00:01:59,956 Speaker 1: Where on your side? Love? Heidi? PS? Please right back, 23 00:02:00,196 --> 00:02:07,916 Speaker 1: I love you. It started raining, one of those afternoons 24 00:02:07,956 --> 00:02:12,436 Speaker 1: summer storms you get in Colorado. Heidi pulled out another 25 00:02:12,516 --> 00:02:18,396 Speaker 1: letter April sixteenth, nineteen eighty one, says, what have you 26 00:02:18,476 --> 00:02:20,996 Speaker 1: been doing? We can see you Sunday. I love you 27 00:02:21,156 --> 00:02:24,956 Speaker 1: very very much. You would never do anything so wrong. 28 00:02:25,716 --> 00:02:29,036 Speaker 1: You're so nice to Mom and Doug. And then it 29 00:02:29,076 --> 00:02:36,636 Speaker 1: says Muffett and Lady are not getting a long Lady, 30 00:02:36,916 --> 00:02:40,956 Speaker 1: their beagle, who survived the journey to Bird Rock. She'd 31 00:02:40,996 --> 00:02:43,596 Speaker 1: gone with the sisters to live with Fred's brother Ron 32 00:02:43,676 --> 00:02:46,796 Speaker 1: and his wife Elizabeth, who had a Christmas tree farm 33 00:02:46,836 --> 00:02:54,316 Speaker 1: far away from Malibu. Yeah. I'm gonna flip that in 34 00:02:54,436 --> 00:03:01,676 Speaker 1: after you are clearly innocent and the dogs are fighting. Eventually, 35 00:03:02,036 --> 00:03:06,756 Speaker 1: Lady went to live with Verna's sister Julianne. That must 36 00:03:06,796 --> 00:03:09,556 Speaker 1: have been heartbreaking to have Lady leave Kie and he 37 00:03:09,636 --> 00:03:12,236 Speaker 1: Julie took her. But I remember when I pulled into 38 00:03:12,236 --> 00:03:15,276 Speaker 1: our house and my aunt Elizabeth and I think Kim 39 00:03:15,276 --> 00:03:19,036 Speaker 1: were standing in the driveway. And it didn't look good 40 00:03:19,356 --> 00:03:22,396 Speaker 1: and I was just like, oh no, and they told 41 00:03:22,436 --> 00:03:25,116 Speaker 1: me lady died of cancer, and so that was just 42 00:03:26,076 --> 00:03:28,316 Speaker 1: that was like our last link, you know, and I 43 00:03:29,396 --> 00:03:31,676 Speaker 1: and that was really sad. And I also realized when 44 00:03:32,116 --> 00:03:34,996 Speaker 1: when Robin Williams passed away. It hit me so hard 45 00:03:35,076 --> 00:03:38,236 Speaker 1: because we would watch Mork and Mindy with my dad 46 00:03:38,556 --> 00:03:41,116 Speaker 1: and it took a while to realize, like why so 47 00:03:41,196 --> 00:03:45,196 Speaker 1: many people, but it was Robin Williams, Michael landon that 48 00:03:45,356 --> 00:03:48,316 Speaker 1: because that all connected me to Malibu and my dad, 49 00:03:48,996 --> 00:03:50,836 Speaker 1: and I think that's when it hit me. I'm like, 50 00:03:50,996 --> 00:03:54,396 Speaker 1: that's why it's so devastating, because it was just part 51 00:03:54,436 --> 00:04:00,636 Speaker 1: of our happy times, you know. By now it was pouring. 52 00:04:02,836 --> 00:04:06,356 Speaker 1: So July seventh, nineteen eighty one, Dear Dad, how are you. 53 00:04:06,556 --> 00:04:10,396 Speaker 1: I am fine. Sorry, I have not been writing. I 54 00:04:10,516 --> 00:04:14,596 Speaker 1: love you and miss you very very much. This coming Tuesday, 55 00:04:14,756 --> 00:04:17,076 Speaker 1: we are going to San Diego. I hope you are 56 00:04:17,156 --> 00:04:22,396 Speaker 1: out by then. And then it says who has been 57 00:04:22,396 --> 00:04:26,076 Speaker 1: writing you? I love you and miss you, Love Heidi. 58 00:04:26,796 --> 00:04:33,636 Speaker 1: Then it is your tops. Yeah, I hope you're out 59 00:04:33,636 --> 00:04:42,396 Speaker 1: by next Tuesday. I'm like, next Tuesday? How many tuesdays? 60 00:04:42,436 --> 00:04:57,196 Speaker 1: I has it been a lot. I'm Dana Goodyear and 61 00:04:57,356 --> 00:05:33,356 Speaker 1: this is Lost Hells episode nine. Prejudicial effect. Authorities believed 62 00:05:33,436 --> 00:05:37,796 Speaker 1: that Fred Rayler had conceived the perfect crime, like something 63 00:05:37,836 --> 00:05:41,756 Speaker 1: out of Hitchcock on a holiday weekend with so many 64 00:05:41,756 --> 00:05:45,076 Speaker 1: people around, with his own parents on the sailboat nearby, 65 00:05:45,556 --> 00:05:48,636 Speaker 1: the next best thing to an alibi. He'd managed to 66 00:05:48,716 --> 00:05:52,796 Speaker 1: kill Verna and Doug without leaving obvious marks, so that 67 00:05:52,836 --> 00:05:55,156 Speaker 1: when the three of them were discovered in the frigid water, 68 00:05:55,636 --> 00:05:59,996 Speaker 1: he'd appeared to be rescuing them. But how to prove it. 69 00:06:00,716 --> 00:06:03,596 Speaker 1: To do that, the da stan Rodin had to look 70 00:06:03,596 --> 00:06:10,116 Speaker 1: at every possible angle, stands to nations afterward, fanacity, you know, 71 00:06:10,756 --> 00:06:13,636 Speaker 1: he was just like a bulldog with his teeth in it. 72 00:06:14,636 --> 00:06:17,396 Speaker 1: Stan Rodin didn't respond to my request for an interview. 73 00:06:17,836 --> 00:06:21,476 Speaker 1: So this is Dempsey Billy, one of Roden's investigators. A 74 00:06:21,516 --> 00:06:25,316 Speaker 1: lot of times stands say something, what you can find 75 00:06:25,316 --> 00:06:28,476 Speaker 1: out about this? And I say, stand, you can't do that, 76 00:06:28,956 --> 00:06:31,356 Speaker 1: no way, So I'd go do it, and sure enough 77 00:06:31,476 --> 00:06:33,996 Speaker 1: you'd be right. We'd find whatever he was looking for. 78 00:06:35,276 --> 00:06:38,516 Speaker 1: In a criminal case, the standard jury instructions are that 79 00:06:38,556 --> 00:06:42,596 Speaker 1: the government must prove the defendant's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, 80 00:06:43,236 --> 00:06:47,476 Speaker 1: but not to a scientific certainty. The case against Fred, 81 00:06:47,756 --> 00:06:50,596 Speaker 1: the mysterious drownings of his wife and steps on the 82 00:06:50,596 --> 00:06:54,676 Speaker 1: insurance policies, and in the background the story of another 83 00:06:54,716 --> 00:06:59,796 Speaker 1: wife who'd also drowned inexplicably. It all looked bad but 84 00:06:59,956 --> 00:07:07,916 Speaker 1: also potentially like bad luck. Maybe Fred was a Malibu job, pitiable, cursed. 85 00:07:08,876 --> 00:07:12,716 Speaker 1: That's what his friends thought. Here's Mike Killeen. You have 86 00:07:12,756 --> 00:07:16,396 Speaker 1: to ask yourself, is it possible for a human being 87 00:07:16,516 --> 00:07:19,316 Speaker 1: from day one to be stakementten? You know I use 88 00:07:19,396 --> 00:07:22,836 Speaker 1: that term, but you know how it applies to various things. 89 00:07:23,796 --> 00:07:26,916 Speaker 1: Is that possible? He'd turn left, he'd turn right, and 90 00:07:27,036 --> 00:07:30,156 Speaker 1: things would go wrong. And it was all built up 91 00:07:30,196 --> 00:07:35,196 Speaker 1: as as circumstance to create this character who really wasn't Fred. 92 00:07:36,436 --> 00:07:40,236 Speaker 1: There was room for a healthy dose of doubt. Stan 93 00:07:40,396 --> 00:07:43,836 Speaker 1: Rodin had to try to make his case empirically by 94 00:07:43,876 --> 00:07:48,596 Speaker 1: presenting the jury with science, because the circumstances, all those 95 00:07:48,636 --> 00:07:53,836 Speaker 1: suspicious coincidences, might not be enough. But how could he 96 00:07:53,876 --> 00:07:58,316 Speaker 1: do that when there was so little physical evidence. That's 97 00:07:58,356 --> 00:08:02,796 Speaker 1: where doctor Thomas Nagucci, the long time weirdly famous Elle 98 00:08:02,796 --> 00:08:10,636 Speaker 1: County Coroner, came in. Nagucci was the so called corner 99 00:08:10,676 --> 00:08:15,236 Speaker 1: to the stars. He'd done Marilyn and RFK and Sharon Tate. 100 00:08:16,076 --> 00:08:18,956 Speaker 1: He'd also been the coroner when Fred's first wife, Jean 101 00:08:19,156 --> 00:08:22,556 Speaker 1: had died, and his office signed off on her death 102 00:08:23,156 --> 00:08:27,996 Speaker 1: as an accident. Now the Santa Barbaradier wanted Nagucci to 103 00:08:28,036 --> 00:08:31,196 Speaker 1: help figure out what had caused those bruises discovered in 104 00:08:31,236 --> 00:08:35,116 Speaker 1: the second autopsies, the ones on the back of Doug's head. 105 00:08:36,876 --> 00:08:41,076 Speaker 1: He was a cracker jack forensic pathologist. He really knew 106 00:08:41,116 --> 00:08:45,996 Speaker 1: his stuff. That's Duane Mosay, the criminalist. He worked alongside 107 00:08:46,116 --> 00:08:50,396 Speaker 1: Nagucci to recreate the last moments of Doug's life. Together, 108 00:08:50,636 --> 00:08:54,956 Speaker 1: they designed a series of experiments centered on Fred's Orange Dory, 109 00:08:55,516 --> 00:08:57,676 Speaker 1: the boat he'd been rowing in with Ferna and Doug, 110 00:08:57,876 --> 00:09:00,676 Speaker 1: which he said had overturned in the open ocean by 111 00:09:00,716 --> 00:09:07,276 Speaker 1: bird rock. Nagucci was eccentric and controversial. Well, He'd walk 112 00:09:07,356 --> 00:09:12,636 Speaker 1: around the Corner's office waving scalpel and telling people sooner 113 00:09:12,716 --> 00:09:15,556 Speaker 1: or later, I'll get you on a table, or words 114 00:09:15,636 --> 00:09:20,996 Speaker 1: to that effect, and people complained about that, so they 115 00:09:21,156 --> 00:09:25,356 Speaker 1: removed him from his office as La County Corner and 116 00:09:25,516 --> 00:09:29,836 Speaker 1: sent him to be a pathologist at the County USC Hospital, 117 00:09:30,636 --> 00:09:35,156 Speaker 1: which is just east of downtown La and doctor Nagucci 118 00:09:35,236 --> 00:09:37,956 Speaker 1: put a sign on his office door that said corner 119 00:09:38,116 --> 00:09:43,876 Speaker 1: in Exile. The experiments didn't take place in doctor Nagucci's lab, No, 120 00:09:44,636 --> 00:09:48,596 Speaker 1: they happened at Nagucci's apartment building in Marina del Rey. 121 00:09:49,196 --> 00:09:53,036 Speaker 1: The sheriff would haul down the dory, we'd do some 122 00:09:53,116 --> 00:09:55,436 Speaker 1: work with it, and they'd haul it back when we 123 00:09:55,436 --> 00:09:59,316 Speaker 1: were done. Their working theory was that Verna had been 124 00:09:59,356 --> 00:10:01,996 Speaker 1: struck with an oar, but they didn't have the oars 125 00:10:02,036 --> 00:10:04,676 Speaker 1: from Fred's dory. They were probably in the middle of 126 00:10:04,716 --> 00:10:08,876 Speaker 1: the ocean somewhere, so they focused on Doug and the 127 00:10:09,116 --> 00:10:11,876 Speaker 1: bruises on the back of his head, a linear bruise 128 00:10:12,036 --> 00:10:18,116 Speaker 1: and a circular bruise three centimeters apart. That pattern repeated twice. 129 00:10:18,836 --> 00:10:21,596 Speaker 1: They took a Doug sized dummy with a Doug sized 130 00:10:21,676 --> 00:10:25,316 Speaker 1: dummy head, and they bashed it on every surface they 131 00:10:25,356 --> 00:10:28,716 Speaker 1: could think of. One hundred and two times they bashed 132 00:10:28,756 --> 00:10:33,876 Speaker 1: the dummy head and they found a match. I tested 133 00:10:33,876 --> 00:10:40,396 Speaker 1: the dory inside and out, from bow to stern. Nothing 134 00:10:40,516 --> 00:10:46,116 Speaker 1: panned out except one place, and that particular place was 135 00:10:46,196 --> 00:10:49,756 Speaker 1: the edge of the seat in the middle of the 136 00:10:49,836 --> 00:10:54,916 Speaker 1: dory where the rower would sit. Stan Rodin liked it, 137 00:10:55,556 --> 00:11:01,196 Speaker 1: but Nagucci couldn't testify. He was in disgrace. So Stanley 138 00:11:01,276 --> 00:11:03,916 Speaker 1: Roden and I had to sit down and figure out 139 00:11:04,076 --> 00:11:07,956 Speaker 1: what I could testify too and what was out of bounds. 140 00:11:08,116 --> 00:11:11,316 Speaker 1: Because I'm not a medical doctor, I could not express 141 00:11:11,396 --> 00:11:19,756 Speaker 1: a medical opinion. And that's how Dwayne Mose criminalist, became 142 00:11:19,876 --> 00:11:23,956 Speaker 1: stan Rodin's star witness in what would be the longest 143 00:11:23,996 --> 00:11:29,156 Speaker 1: and most expensive trial in Santa Barbara history. One hundred 144 00:11:29,196 --> 00:11:35,556 Speaker 1: and five days, four dozen witnesses, and one orange story. 145 00:11:59,916 --> 00:12:02,516 Speaker 1: The trial for the murders of Verna and Doug started 146 00:12:02,516 --> 00:12:06,436 Speaker 1: on December fifteenth, nineteen eighty one, in Santa Barbara's majestic 147 00:12:06,556 --> 00:12:12,676 Speaker 1: Spanish style courthouse. The courtroom was packed standing room. Fred's 148 00:12:12,676 --> 00:12:17,116 Speaker 1: family was there, so was Verna's mother. They were supporting Fred. 149 00:12:17,996 --> 00:12:21,956 Speaker 1: There were journalists and screenwriters and look you loose. The 150 00:12:22,036 --> 00:12:25,836 Speaker 1: famous mystery writer Margaret Millar was a regular. She lived 151 00:12:25,876 --> 00:12:28,796 Speaker 1: in Santa Barbara and had made her name writing chilling 152 00:12:28,836 --> 00:12:33,196 Speaker 1: tales of marital deceit. This plot line was right up 153 00:12:33,196 --> 00:12:37,276 Speaker 1: her alley in California. For someone to be sentenced to 154 00:12:37,356 --> 00:12:40,356 Speaker 1: death or life in prison without the possibility of parole. 155 00:12:41,036 --> 00:12:46,716 Speaker 1: Their crime must meet certain criteria called special circumstances. In 156 00:12:46,716 --> 00:12:51,516 Speaker 1: Fred's case, there were three alleged special circumstances. There was 157 00:12:51,556 --> 00:12:54,956 Speaker 1: more than one victim that was special circumstance number one. 158 00:12:55,916 --> 00:12:59,636 Speaker 1: Special circumstances Numbers two and three were the motive of 159 00:12:59,716 --> 00:13:03,876 Speaker 1: financial gain the insurance payouts from the freshly aanked policies 160 00:13:03,916 --> 00:13:08,476 Speaker 1: on Verna and Doug. If Fred was convicted and any 161 00:13:08,476 --> 00:13:11,756 Speaker 1: of the special circumstances were found to apply, he'd be 162 00:13:11,796 --> 00:13:15,636 Speaker 1: eligible for the most severe sentence. And Stan Rowden, the 163 00:13:15,716 --> 00:13:18,916 Speaker 1: district attorney, was hoping to send Fred to the gas 164 00:13:19,036 --> 00:13:23,756 Speaker 1: chamber at San Quentin. Rowden wanted to try a spectacle 165 00:13:23,836 --> 00:13:27,516 Speaker 1: involving rich people and insurance and made for TV and 166 00:13:27,596 --> 00:13:30,916 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. That's a pellet. Attorney Wendy Lasher 167 00:13:31,596 --> 00:13:35,436 Speaker 1: she attended every day of Fred's trial taking notes because 168 00:13:35,476 --> 00:13:38,876 Speaker 1: even before the trial started she was laying the groundwork 169 00:13:39,036 --> 00:13:42,756 Speaker 1: for an appeal. I asked her what she remembered about 170 00:13:42,836 --> 00:13:51,876 Speaker 1: Rodin Paul then at the time energetic, aggressive, pleasant on 171 00:13:51,916 --> 00:13:56,076 Speaker 1: the surface, but kind of devious. I wouldn't quite go 172 00:13:56,156 --> 00:14:00,676 Speaker 1: so far as to say, unscrupulous, but certainly pushing the 173 00:14:00,796 --> 00:14:04,276 Speaker 1: envelope in terms of what he could do. A definitely 174 00:14:04,356 --> 00:14:08,476 Speaker 1: concerned about his reputation and making his way as an aggressive, 175 00:14:09,396 --> 00:14:14,956 Speaker 1: leading prosecutor in the world, a little bit politicianlike. At 176 00:14:14,956 --> 00:14:18,876 Speaker 1: the outset, the defense was feeling strong. Fred had been 177 00:14:18,916 --> 00:14:21,596 Speaker 1: working out every day in jail, and the papers were 178 00:14:21,636 --> 00:14:25,156 Speaker 1: full of admiring descriptions of his thick, curly hair and 179 00:14:25,236 --> 00:14:28,596 Speaker 1: athletic physique. At the time of his arrest, he'd worn 180 00:14:28,596 --> 00:14:31,676 Speaker 1: a full beard. His team didn't think that look would 181 00:14:31,716 --> 00:14:35,356 Speaker 1: fly in conservative Santa Barbara County. They thought it made 182 00:14:35,396 --> 00:14:39,556 Speaker 1: him look resputeinish, like he was hiding something. He came 183 00:14:39,596 --> 00:14:43,636 Speaker 1: to court with a clean shave. The concerns Fred had 184 00:14:43,676 --> 00:14:46,756 Speaker 1: about being indicted for killing Verna's first husband and the 185 00:14:46,876 --> 00:14:50,636 Speaker 1: navy diver who drowned while using Fred's scuba equipment were gone. 186 00:14:51,236 --> 00:14:53,916 Speaker 1: The DA appeared to have dropped those lines of inquiry. 187 00:14:54,876 --> 00:14:58,636 Speaker 1: All Fred's prior sketchy insurance history, it might as well 188 00:14:58,636 --> 00:15:01,916 Speaker 1: have disappeared too. The judge wasn't going to allow the 189 00:15:01,956 --> 00:15:06,316 Speaker 1: prosecution to introduce it, and Fred's defense attorney had scored 190 00:15:06,396 --> 00:15:10,556 Speaker 1: a significant victory on the matter. Of Gene. The judge 191 00:15:10,596 --> 00:15:13,556 Speaker 1: had ruled to exclude all evidence regarding the death of 192 00:15:13,636 --> 00:15:16,276 Speaker 1: Fred's first wife from the guilt phase of his trial. 193 00:15:17,036 --> 00:15:21,476 Speaker 1: The judge said its prejudicial effect would far outweigh its 194 00:15:21,516 --> 00:15:25,556 Speaker 1: probitive value. In other words, the story of Jean's death 195 00:15:25,636 --> 00:15:28,756 Speaker 1: wouldn't prove Fred had killed Werna or dug, but it 196 00:15:28,796 --> 00:15:32,516 Speaker 1: would almost certainly persuade the jury that he had. The 197 00:15:32,596 --> 00:15:35,276 Speaker 1: defense also made a motion to quash the results of 198 00:15:35,316 --> 00:15:39,196 Speaker 1: the Santa Barbara autopsies. They'd been conducted in secret, and 199 00:15:39,236 --> 00:15:42,556 Speaker 1: then the bodies had been cremated, so Fred's defense couldn't 200 00:15:42,596 --> 00:15:48,116 Speaker 1: effectively counter their findings. Here's Wendy Lasher. What they found 201 00:15:48,156 --> 00:15:52,676 Speaker 1: in the autopsies, or said that they found was like 202 00:15:52,796 --> 00:15:56,276 Speaker 1: looking at roshock tests. You know, you could see what 203 00:15:56,396 --> 00:16:00,556 Speaker 1: you wanted in those autopsy results, but you had no 204 00:16:00,596 --> 00:16:04,356 Speaker 1: opportunity to look and say, preserve evidence that you could 205 00:16:04,436 --> 00:16:06,676 Speaker 1: later say, see if you look at it this way, 206 00:16:06,716 --> 00:16:11,196 Speaker 1: it doesn't show any such thing. That motion was denied. 207 00:16:11,796 --> 00:16:15,876 Speaker 1: The second autopsies would be allowed. In fact, Stan Rodin 208 00:16:16,036 --> 00:16:26,676 Speaker 1: would call them the lynchpin of the case. Stan Roden 209 00:16:26,756 --> 00:16:30,356 Speaker 1: spent months arguing motive that Fred was running out of 210 00:16:30,356 --> 00:16:33,956 Speaker 1: money and that his lifestyle was demanding more and more cash. 211 00:16:34,876 --> 00:16:39,996 Speaker 1: Rodin argued Fred wanted freedom and unencumbered, newly flushed life 212 00:16:40,036 --> 00:16:44,156 Speaker 1: in Malibu with houses and a sailboat and money to burn. 213 00:16:45,196 --> 00:16:49,236 Speaker 1: Here's a pellet, attorney Wendy Lasher again, people like stories 214 00:16:49,236 --> 00:16:52,156 Speaker 1: about rich people and rich people doing bad things. You know, 215 00:16:52,796 --> 00:16:57,236 Speaker 1: this is mythology. If somebody killed got life insurance and 216 00:16:57,956 --> 00:17:02,356 Speaker 1: killed their wife in a glamorous situation on a yacht 217 00:17:03,316 --> 00:17:07,356 Speaker 1: on a holiday weekend, Wow, that's a big deal. And look, 218 00:17:07,476 --> 00:17:10,756 Speaker 1: we've got this highly technical it's about it because you know, 219 00:17:10,836 --> 00:17:13,356 Speaker 1: we're such a hot shot prosecution that we can do this. 220 00:17:14,436 --> 00:17:17,556 Speaker 1: They also had the thing about Fred had thirty thousand 221 00:17:17,596 --> 00:17:21,516 Speaker 1: dollars in cash and a coffee canon is freezer, and 222 00:17:21,636 --> 00:17:24,756 Speaker 1: they tried to make that out as you know, clearly 223 00:17:24,796 --> 00:17:27,036 Speaker 1: he was going to kill these people and escape to 224 00:17:27,116 --> 00:17:30,476 Speaker 1: Mexico with his cash and live on it, you know, 225 00:17:30,596 --> 00:17:35,916 Speaker 1: make a new life for himself. The DA called doctor 226 00:17:35,956 --> 00:17:38,716 Speaker 1: de Witt Hunter to the stand in January of nineteen 227 00:17:38,756 --> 00:17:43,196 Speaker 1: eighty two. Hunter was the Santa Barbara pathologist whose autopsy 228 00:17:43,236 --> 00:17:47,836 Speaker 1: reports indicated trauma to Verna and Doug. The prosecution didn't 229 00:17:47,876 --> 00:17:50,916 Speaker 1: present evidence about Fred using an oar to strike Verna's 230 00:17:50,916 --> 00:17:54,596 Speaker 1: head because they had no ore. But Hunter did present 231 00:17:54,636 --> 00:17:57,516 Speaker 1: a slide that he said showed a crush effect on 232 00:17:57,676 --> 00:18:02,196 Speaker 1: Verna's scalp, a minor traumatic injury that had happened a 233 00:18:02,276 --> 00:18:05,116 Speaker 1: minute to a minute and a half before her death. 234 00:18:06,796 --> 00:18:09,236 Speaker 1: He said the trauma to Doug had also not been 235 00:18:09,356 --> 00:18:13,316 Speaker 1: lethal and occurred before Doug's death. In other words, Doug 236 00:18:13,316 --> 00:18:16,516 Speaker 1: had hit his head or had his head hit before 237 00:18:16,596 --> 00:18:20,476 Speaker 1: he drowned. The story was there, he said, in a 238 00:18:20,556 --> 00:18:25,476 Speaker 1: single hair follicle. They had preserved the whole hair, the 239 00:18:25,556 --> 00:18:29,556 Speaker 1: follicle and the hair itself. This is doctor Michael Boden, 240 00:18:29,716 --> 00:18:32,716 Speaker 1: who for twenty five years was the chief forensic pathologist 241 00:18:32,756 --> 00:18:36,036 Speaker 1: for the New York State Police. Fred's family asked him 242 00:18:36,036 --> 00:18:38,916 Speaker 1: to review his case, and he says the single hair 243 00:18:38,996 --> 00:18:44,316 Speaker 1: theory was a misreading of the evidence. He testified that 244 00:18:44,396 --> 00:18:46,996 Speaker 1: he could look at that hair under the microscope and 245 00:18:47,116 --> 00:18:50,356 Speaker 1: tell that had been crushed by a blunt object one hair. 246 00:18:51,636 --> 00:18:54,516 Speaker 1: But Boden says there was a very obvious and benign 247 00:18:54,556 --> 00:18:58,596 Speaker 1: reason for the damage to Doug's hair, in order to 248 00:18:58,636 --> 00:19:01,476 Speaker 1: reflect the scalp when it's a cut through the hair 249 00:19:02,356 --> 00:19:05,756 Speaker 1: and pull up the hair and bruise the hair with 250 00:19:05,956 --> 00:19:11,436 Speaker 1: rolling trying to lift the scalp tissue off the scowbones, 251 00:19:12,316 --> 00:19:17,596 Speaker 1: which causes blood trauma to the hair. Doctor Duncan, who 252 00:19:17,636 --> 00:19:21,436 Speaker 1: did the first autopsies in Ventura County, says doctor Hunter's 253 00:19:21,436 --> 00:19:27,996 Speaker 1: findings were a joke. Hunter was unqualified, unqualified to really 254 00:19:28,116 --> 00:19:32,956 Speaker 1: interpret forensic autopsies, but this was an especially troubling re 255 00:19:33,196 --> 00:19:38,276 Speaker 1: autopsy case. Eight days after death or thereabouts, seven days 256 00:19:38,316 --> 00:19:43,076 Speaker 1: after an initial autopsy. He was totally unqualified to interpret 257 00:19:43,116 --> 00:19:48,116 Speaker 1: those findings, which changed dramatically, and what he presented the 258 00:19:48,196 --> 00:19:50,916 Speaker 1: court never should have been allowed to be presented in court. 259 00:19:51,996 --> 00:19:54,716 Speaker 1: I couldn't get in touch with Hunter. But Duncan contends 260 00:19:54,756 --> 00:19:58,116 Speaker 1: that Hunter's lack of expertise sent the investigation down a 261 00:19:58,116 --> 00:20:02,956 Speaker 1: treacherous path because, he says, forensic pathology is an art 262 00:20:02,996 --> 00:20:07,236 Speaker 1: of exclusion, and Hunter saw a meaning where there was none. 263 00:20:08,476 --> 00:20:13,236 Speaker 1: The difference between a non trained pathologist and a forensic pathologist. 264 00:20:13,516 --> 00:20:18,316 Speaker 1: As a forensic pathologist knows what not to interpret, an 265 00:20:18,396 --> 00:20:24,116 Speaker 1: untrained pathologist interprets everything. Hunter's biggest error, according to Duncan, 266 00:20:24,476 --> 00:20:26,876 Speaker 1: was that he failed to account for the passage of time. 267 00:20:27,676 --> 00:20:30,636 Speaker 1: The bruises and markings that Hunter saw on January ninth, 268 00:20:30,836 --> 00:20:34,676 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty one, that Duncan had not noticed six days earlier, 269 00:20:34,796 --> 00:20:39,156 Speaker 1: on January third. Duncan says that's because the bruises weren't 270 00:20:39,236 --> 00:20:44,076 Speaker 1: there on January third, he didn't miss the signs of trauma. 271 00:20:44,156 --> 00:20:48,036 Speaker 1: He says the trauma was post mortem, most likely a 272 00:20:48,076 --> 00:20:51,956 Speaker 1: result of the first autopsies, accentuated by time as the 273 00:20:51,996 --> 00:20:56,836 Speaker 1: blood Inverna and Doug's bodies settled and pulled. The marks 274 00:20:56,876 --> 00:21:04,156 Speaker 1: were artifacts phantoms, not maliciously inflicted wounds. It's more like 275 00:21:04,196 --> 00:21:08,116 Speaker 1: a photograph of a ghost that wasn't there and now 276 00:21:08,116 --> 00:21:13,356 Speaker 1: appears to be there, and it was nothing. Even the 277 00:21:13,396 --> 00:21:17,036 Speaker 1: bruises on the back of Doug's head that I contend 278 00:21:17,356 --> 00:21:21,276 Speaker 1: is from post mortem artifact. From the way bodies are stored. 279 00:21:22,356 --> 00:21:27,156 Speaker 1: The bodies are laid on a head brace and they 280 00:21:27,196 --> 00:21:31,996 Speaker 1: sit that way for a week. Is just describing artifacts 281 00:21:32,036 --> 00:21:36,876 Speaker 1: as if they were significant throughout the autopsy. And once 282 00:21:36,916 --> 00:21:41,516 Speaker 1: you're doing that, you know that's crazy from a forensic 283 00:21:41,556 --> 00:21:45,636 Speaker 1: pathology point of view. So it's it's kind of clown 284 00:21:45,756 --> 00:21:52,636 Speaker 1: car pathology. According to Duncan, the second autopsies served their purpose. 285 00:21:53,276 --> 00:21:57,356 Speaker 1: They produced evidence for the DA to use against Fred Railer. 286 00:21:58,636 --> 00:22:02,836 Speaker 1: I contend it was orchestrated to be used as an 287 00:22:02,876 --> 00:22:07,516 Speaker 1: agenda for the prosecution, and that's not as far fetched 288 00:22:07,516 --> 00:22:11,196 Speaker 1: as it sounds, because in Santa Barbara County the Coroner's 289 00:22:11,236 --> 00:22:14,916 Speaker 1: office is part of the Sheriff's department. Hunter was working 290 00:22:14,956 --> 00:22:18,836 Speaker 1: for law enforcement Detectives Ray and Tuller were present for 291 00:22:18,876 --> 00:22:28,436 Speaker 1: the autopsies. They wanted clues, and he produced them. When 292 00:22:28,476 --> 00:22:32,316 Speaker 1: it was time for Duane mos the criminalist, to testify 293 00:22:32,356 --> 00:22:35,956 Speaker 1: about the dummy tests, the DA arranged for the orange dory, 294 00:22:36,436 --> 00:22:38,876 Speaker 1: all one hundred and thirty eight pounds of it, to 295 00:22:38,996 --> 00:22:42,396 Speaker 1: be delivered to the Santa Barbara Courthouse, and with that 296 00:22:42,476 --> 00:22:47,996 Speaker 1: prop in place, Mosa demonstrated his experiments to spectacular effect. 297 00:22:48,836 --> 00:22:54,116 Speaker 1: One of the exhibits the court was one to one 298 00:22:54,196 --> 00:22:58,596 Speaker 1: picture of the back of Douglas's head with a scalp 299 00:22:58,636 --> 00:23:05,596 Speaker 1: pulled back and a transparent overlay of the pattern on 300 00:23:05,636 --> 00:23:09,396 Speaker 1: the back of the test dummy, and I overlay the 301 00:23:09,476 --> 00:23:14,956 Speaker 1: transparency from the test dummy on top of Douglas Johnson's 302 00:23:14,996 --> 00:23:22,036 Speaker 1: head and the patterns match. Nothing was off. Mose had 303 00:23:22,036 --> 00:23:25,236 Speaker 1: a dummy the same size and weight as Doug. So 304 00:23:25,276 --> 00:23:28,276 Speaker 1: he acted out the murder as the prosecution imagined it 305 00:23:28,836 --> 00:23:32,956 Speaker 1: a beating, then a drowning. Here's Fred's friend, Mike Keilleen. 306 00:23:33,996 --> 00:23:37,156 Speaker 1: It was very dramatic. He took the dummy and he 307 00:23:37,276 --> 00:23:41,756 Speaker 1: slammed it against the boat and somehow, I think on 308 00:23:41,836 --> 00:23:44,676 Speaker 1: his head or something, there was some carbon something that 309 00:23:45,436 --> 00:23:49,756 Speaker 1: created a pattern. And that pattern was the same pattern 310 00:23:49,996 --> 00:23:55,596 Speaker 1: they found on Doug's head after the accident. So they said, 311 00:23:56,236 --> 00:23:59,916 Speaker 1: but it's really been called junk science by so many people. 312 00:24:01,556 --> 00:24:05,436 Speaker 1: But what it did to the jury was because there 313 00:24:05,476 --> 00:24:08,756 Speaker 1: was really nothing to counter it, it told him that's 314 00:24:08,756 --> 00:24:14,316 Speaker 1: what happen. The visual was so powerful and that was 315 00:24:14,356 --> 00:24:20,116 Speaker 1: definitely the turning point. Then the jury actually got to 316 00:24:20,156 --> 00:24:24,236 Speaker 1: participate in a forensic discovery of their own. On one 317 00:24:24,236 --> 00:24:26,356 Speaker 1: side of the dory, there was a small bump in 318 00:24:26,396 --> 00:24:30,396 Speaker 1: the fiberglass, which Mosai said corresponded to a little tear 319 00:24:30,436 --> 00:24:33,436 Speaker 1: shape visible at one end of one of the linear bruises. 320 00:24:34,516 --> 00:24:38,996 Speaker 1: Fred says it was ridiculous. They ended up having the 321 00:24:39,036 --> 00:24:43,996 Speaker 1: whole jury parade by and touched the bump. Then it 322 00:24:44,036 --> 00:24:47,596 Speaker 1: was Fred's turn to testify, and right before he did 323 00:24:48,316 --> 00:25:17,916 Speaker 1: he got a piece of very good news. Two days 324 00:25:17,996 --> 00:25:22,116 Speaker 1: before Fred took the stand. He was acquitted on special 325 00:25:22,116 --> 00:25:26,956 Speaker 1: Circumstance number three that he had killed Doug for financial 326 00:25:26,996 --> 00:25:31,796 Speaker 1: gain because Doug's sister Kim and his stepsisters Kirsten and 327 00:25:31,876 --> 00:25:35,956 Speaker 1: Heidee were the beneficiaries of his policy. The court found 328 00:25:35,996 --> 00:25:38,436 Speaker 1: that Fred could not have killed him for the money. 329 00:25:39,476 --> 00:25:42,956 Speaker 1: As for the policy on Verna, the insurance company paid it. 330 00:25:43,476 --> 00:25:46,636 Speaker 1: It went into the Johnson Railer Trust, but only after 331 00:25:46,716 --> 00:25:51,436 Speaker 1: Fred had removed himself as trustee. Bill Fairfield, Fred's friend 332 00:25:51,436 --> 00:25:55,476 Speaker 1: and lawyer, replaced him as trustee. Bill also testified in 333 00:25:55,516 --> 00:25:59,836 Speaker 1: the trial. He wept on the witness stand, swearing the 334 00:25:59,916 --> 00:26:07,516 Speaker 1: insurance had been his idea. Fred's testimony began on March eleventh, 335 00:26:07,636 --> 00:26:10,876 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty one. Were a dark blue suit and he 336 00:26:10,996 --> 00:26:14,236 Speaker 1: was calm. A newspaper report from the time says he 337 00:26:14,316 --> 00:26:18,316 Speaker 1: only broke down when describing his realization that Verna might 338 00:26:18,356 --> 00:26:22,036 Speaker 1: be dead. He says there was never any question whether 339 00:26:22,036 --> 00:26:25,716 Speaker 1: he would take the stand. He had unshakable confidence in 340 00:26:25,796 --> 00:26:30,436 Speaker 1: his version of events. I said, the only way that 341 00:26:30,596 --> 00:26:34,196 Speaker 1: they will ever you know, really understand the whole works 342 00:26:34,236 --> 00:26:37,996 Speaker 1: as if I testify. He never doubted that he would 343 00:26:37,996 --> 00:26:43,596 Speaker 1: be acquitted of murdering Verna and Doug because even though 344 00:26:43,636 --> 00:26:47,436 Speaker 1: they basically, you know, cheated doing the second autopsy, in 345 00:26:48,196 --> 00:26:51,916 Speaker 1: hiding that and all those things, the people that we 346 00:26:52,076 --> 00:26:57,076 Speaker 1: had who testified basically showed that there was no foul, 347 00:26:57,156 --> 00:27:00,356 Speaker 1: there was no harm, there was no murder. You know, 348 00:27:00,396 --> 00:27:03,796 Speaker 1: in all the legalise that there is about proof beyond 349 00:27:03,796 --> 00:27:07,396 Speaker 1: a reasonable doubt into a moral certainty, that's basically DS. 350 00:27:08,556 --> 00:27:12,396 Speaker 1: You know, you're trying to convince twelve people by hook 351 00:27:12,436 --> 00:27:17,036 Speaker 1: or crook to vote a certain way. During his cross 352 00:27:17,076 --> 00:27:20,516 Speaker 1: examination of Fred, Stan Rodin made sure the dory was 353 00:27:20,556 --> 00:27:23,156 Speaker 1: brought back into the courtroom. It hung in front of 354 00:27:23,196 --> 00:27:26,596 Speaker 1: the jury box, suspended from four ladders seven feet off 355 00:27:26,636 --> 00:27:30,356 Speaker 1: the ground. Rodin drilled down on all the things about 356 00:27:30,396 --> 00:27:33,516 Speaker 1: Fred's story of the drowning that did not make sense. 357 00:27:34,796 --> 00:27:38,116 Speaker 1: How could a Navy trained scuba diver, a water safety 358 00:27:38,116 --> 00:27:42,116 Speaker 1: instructor forget all the basic rules. He failed to kick 359 00:27:42,156 --> 00:27:45,556 Speaker 1: off his sneakers and pants, He swam away from the dory, 360 00:27:45,716 --> 00:27:50,236 Speaker 1: the perfect flotation device. Why would he undertake the risky 361 00:27:50,316 --> 00:27:54,876 Speaker 1: and exhausting swim to bird Rock supporting two drowning victims 362 00:27:55,276 --> 00:27:58,356 Speaker 1: and a dog. Why was he dealing with the dog 363 00:27:58,396 --> 00:28:02,916 Speaker 1: at all when his wife and stepchild were dying. At 364 00:28:02,916 --> 00:28:08,316 Speaker 1: this point, Rodin introduced new evidence People's Exhibit thirty one 365 00:28:08,396 --> 00:28:13,676 Speaker 1: C A toy bear. He said, your honor, at this 366 00:28:13,756 --> 00:28:16,756 Speaker 1: time I have an animal. It is certainly not a dog, 367 00:28:16,876 --> 00:28:19,316 Speaker 1: but it has movable arms and legs, and this is 368 00:28:19,316 --> 00:28:21,876 Speaker 1: as close as we can come it is a bear. 369 00:28:22,996 --> 00:28:25,716 Speaker 1: Then Rowdin asked Detective Ray to put on the float 370 00:28:25,756 --> 00:28:28,836 Speaker 1: coat Fred had been wearing on January second, nineteen eighty one, 371 00:28:29,276 --> 00:28:32,356 Speaker 1: and he placed the teddy bear on Detective Ray's shoulders 372 00:28:32,356 --> 00:28:35,476 Speaker 1: and moved it around as Fred directed from the witness stand. 373 00:28:36,436 --> 00:28:40,196 Speaker 1: It must have looked absurd, and that was exactly Stan 374 00:28:40,356 --> 00:28:44,036 Speaker 1: Rowden's point. He didn't think Fred had swum with Lady 375 00:28:44,116 --> 00:28:47,276 Speaker 1: the dog on his back. He didn't think Lady had 376 00:28:47,276 --> 00:28:50,436 Speaker 1: climbed the sheer cliff on the north side of Bird Rock. 377 00:28:51,236 --> 00:28:53,436 Speaker 1: He didn't even think Lady was still in the boat 378 00:28:53,436 --> 00:28:57,076 Speaker 1: when it flipped. He thought Fred had dumped her on 379 00:28:57,156 --> 00:28:59,836 Speaker 1: the eastern end of bird Rock, where there's a nice, 380 00:28:59,876 --> 00:29:04,436 Speaker 1: gentle ledge which she could have easily climbed up. Saving 381 00:29:04,436 --> 00:29:07,436 Speaker 1: the dog was just one more aspect of his bogus 382 00:29:07,476 --> 00:29:11,676 Speaker 1: hero story of vanity or a distraction. It was a 383 00:29:11,716 --> 00:29:15,396 Speaker 1: fib and Rodin was sure it was a flaw in 384 00:29:15,476 --> 00:29:19,076 Speaker 1: the lie Fred had been telling on autopilot since the 385 00:29:19,196 --> 00:29:25,356 Speaker 1: day his wife and stepson died. Fred sat through the trial. 386 00:29:25,716 --> 00:29:29,876 Speaker 1: You could say stoically, or you could say sullenly. Here's 387 00:29:29,916 --> 00:29:36,636 Speaker 1: Wendy Lasher. Fred was his big stoic guy, quiet and 388 00:29:36,956 --> 00:29:40,156 Speaker 1: kind of dark and brooding looking, kind of dark hair, 389 00:29:40,196 --> 00:29:43,916 Speaker 1: heavy eyebrows, and I think they really wanted to cultivate 390 00:29:44,356 --> 00:29:49,756 Speaker 1: a dislike of him. During the trial, the judge instructed 391 00:29:49,756 --> 00:29:53,756 Speaker 1: the jury in the distinction between direct and circumstantial evidence 392 00:29:54,196 --> 00:29:56,796 Speaker 1: and told them that there had been no direct evidence 393 00:29:56,836 --> 00:29:59,556 Speaker 1: of any act of the defendants that caused Verna and 394 00:29:59,636 --> 00:30:03,396 Speaker 1: Doug to drown. They were also told that when considering 395 00:30:03,396 --> 00:30:08,556 Speaker 1: circumstantial evidence, if there were two reasonable interpretations, they had 396 00:30:08,636 --> 00:30:13,476 Speaker 1: to give the defendant the benefit of the doubt. The 397 00:30:13,596 --> 00:30:18,876 Speaker 1: jury deliberated for five days. This is Fred's friend Mike Kelleen. 398 00:30:19,676 --> 00:30:23,156 Speaker 1: When the jury went away to make their decision, I 399 00:30:23,156 --> 00:30:26,876 Speaker 1: think on day two they asked for information about the dory. 400 00:30:26,916 --> 00:30:29,836 Speaker 1: They wanted to see the dory again. That dory made 401 00:30:29,836 --> 00:30:33,356 Speaker 1: all the difference regardless of how they felt about Fred. 402 00:30:34,636 --> 00:30:38,556 Speaker 1: That demonstration with the dory and the dummy told him 403 00:30:38,556 --> 00:30:42,516 Speaker 1: a story. Fred says he didn't see the verdict coming. 404 00:30:43,476 --> 00:30:47,916 Speaker 1: I was literally stunned when the clerk of the court 405 00:30:48,036 --> 00:30:50,876 Speaker 1: read the verdict. She had tears in her eyes when 406 00:30:50,916 --> 00:30:54,196 Speaker 1: she read the verdict because I'm pretty sure she didn't 407 00:30:54,196 --> 00:30:56,636 Speaker 1: think there was going to be a guilty verdict either. 408 00:30:57,996 --> 00:31:01,556 Speaker 1: Fred was found guilty of two counts of first degree 409 00:31:01,716 --> 00:31:07,036 Speaker 1: premeditated murder and special circumstances one and two more than 410 00:31:07,076 --> 00:31:11,996 Speaker 1: one victim, and killing Verna for financial gain. According to 411 00:31:12,036 --> 00:31:16,196 Speaker 1: a newspaper report, Fred's mother gasped when she heard the verdict, 412 00:31:16,956 --> 00:31:20,596 Speaker 1: and as the spectators were leaving the courtroom, she hissed 413 00:31:21,716 --> 00:31:43,196 Speaker 1: gossip kills. Fred's defense team thought it was the testimony 414 00:31:43,236 --> 00:31:48,236 Speaker 1: of Duane Mosa, the criminalist, that tipped the scales. Appealing 415 00:31:48,236 --> 00:31:51,236 Speaker 1: the trial verdict in nineteen eighty five, they'd even manage 416 00:31:51,276 --> 00:31:54,476 Speaker 1: to get all three appellate judges to agree that Mosa's 417 00:31:54,516 --> 00:31:58,876 Speaker 1: evidence did not follow reliable scientific procedure and should not 418 00:31:58,996 --> 00:32:03,116 Speaker 1: have been admitted. But Mosa says, much as he would 419 00:32:03,156 --> 00:32:06,556 Speaker 1: like to take credit for Fred's conviction, he really can't. 420 00:32:07,756 --> 00:32:13,516 Speaker 1: Several months after the trial was over, Railer had been sentenced. 421 00:32:14,236 --> 00:32:17,276 Speaker 1: I bumped into one of the members of the jury 422 00:32:17,476 --> 00:32:21,276 Speaker 1: and we chatted a little bit about the case. I 423 00:32:21,396 --> 00:32:23,916 Speaker 1: wanted some feedback, so I asked him what he thought 424 00:32:23,956 --> 00:32:27,116 Speaker 1: of my testimony, and he smiled and he said, oh, 425 00:32:27,916 --> 00:32:33,116 Speaker 1: we didn't give that any thought. And he said the 426 00:32:33,196 --> 00:32:36,116 Speaker 1: guy was lying. It was obvious to us, and we 427 00:32:36,196 --> 00:33:00,116 Speaker 1: convicted him because he was a liar. In the penalty phase, 428 00:33:00,436 --> 00:33:04,276 Speaker 1: Vernon's daughter Kim testified on Fred's behalf. So did Fred's 429 00:33:04,356 --> 00:33:08,556 Speaker 1: daughter's Heidi and Kirsten. Fred's defense attorney asked them to 430 00:33:08,556 --> 00:33:11,436 Speaker 1: conjure up happy memories to tell the jury in the 431 00:33:11,476 --> 00:33:15,316 Speaker 1: hope that it would help spare their father's life. In 432 00:33:15,396 --> 00:33:18,876 Speaker 1: the hayloft in Colorado, Kim found a letter she'd written 433 00:33:18,956 --> 00:33:22,196 Speaker 1: on the day she took the stand. She was twelve 434 00:33:24,036 --> 00:33:28,156 Speaker 1: July seventh. Dere's Dad, today has been a long, hard day. 435 00:33:28,476 --> 00:33:30,956 Speaker 1: We had fun at the hotel. Dad. I am sorry 436 00:33:30,996 --> 00:33:33,556 Speaker 1: if I made it sort of hard for you today. 437 00:33:33,636 --> 00:33:36,436 Speaker 1: I love you so very, very, very very very much 438 00:33:36,476 --> 00:33:39,636 Speaker 1: and I miss you. Love Kim, And I wondered then, 439 00:33:39,676 --> 00:33:41,676 Speaker 1: if this the only time that we were in court 440 00:33:41,916 --> 00:33:47,516 Speaker 1: was for yeah penalty face, and to tell our little 441 00:33:48,996 --> 00:33:54,156 Speaker 1: special story or memory mine I talked about I had 442 00:33:54,196 --> 00:33:58,516 Speaker 1: a white bunny named Snowball, and my dad had made 443 00:33:58,676 --> 00:34:02,676 Speaker 1: a harness for my rabbit so I could take it 444 00:34:02,716 --> 00:34:05,196 Speaker 1: for a walk in the backyard and so she'd be 445 00:34:05,236 --> 00:34:09,716 Speaker 1: on a leash. Kirsten, who had just turned eight, told 446 00:34:09,716 --> 00:34:12,196 Speaker 1: a story about Fred and Verna making out at the 447 00:34:12,236 --> 00:34:16,276 Speaker 1: register at a Bob's. Big Boy Hottie was eleven, and 448 00:34:16,396 --> 00:34:20,996 Speaker 1: she doesn't remember what she said. I was so scared 449 00:34:22,036 --> 00:34:26,116 Speaker 1: and like so dizzy. You know, it was just one 450 00:34:26,116 --> 00:34:28,596 Speaker 1: of the scariest things ever, sitting in this big box 451 00:34:28,636 --> 00:34:31,556 Speaker 1: with all these people staring at you and the weight 452 00:34:31,596 --> 00:34:33,436 Speaker 1: of the world on your shoulders. Because I didn't know 453 00:34:33,476 --> 00:34:35,236 Speaker 1: it was a penalty phase. I thought, if I just 454 00:34:35,236 --> 00:34:40,156 Speaker 1: said the right thing, he is coming home. And we 455 00:34:40,236 --> 00:34:43,996 Speaker 1: didn't find out it was years later. You know, of course, 456 00:34:44,756 --> 00:34:48,236 Speaker 1: that would have been devastating if you found out that 457 00:34:48,356 --> 00:34:50,996 Speaker 1: it was the penalty phase. But I just was so 458 00:34:51,116 --> 00:34:53,076 Speaker 1: nervous and worried that I would say the wrong thing 459 00:34:53,076 --> 00:34:57,156 Speaker 1: and then he couldn't come home. There's one for me, 460 00:34:57,196 --> 00:34:59,356 Speaker 1: you know, day, Dear Dad, I miss you very much. 461 00:34:59,476 --> 00:35:01,476 Speaker 1: I'm tired, but I do not want to go to bed. 462 00:35:01,636 --> 00:35:04,636 Speaker 1: Do you have to stay for your life? I miss 463 00:35:04,636 --> 00:35:08,436 Speaker 1: you very very much. I know that you won't like 464 00:35:08,556 --> 00:35:20,036 Speaker 1: to stay there. Love Kirsten. And then here's another one, 465 00:35:20,116 --> 00:35:24,156 Speaker 1: Dear Fred, and then Dad in parentheses. I was crying 466 00:35:24,196 --> 00:35:27,316 Speaker 1: when I heard the news. I miss you so very much, 467 00:35:27,356 --> 00:35:29,796 Speaker 1: and I hope you come home soon. Will you write 468 00:35:29,836 --> 00:35:34,316 Speaker 1: us back if you can. We made chocolate chip cookies 469 00:35:34,316 --> 00:35:37,076 Speaker 1: with Ann Elizabeth. See you soon, I hope. I am 470 00:35:37,116 --> 00:35:39,196 Speaker 1: the youngest, but I love you just as much as 471 00:35:39,236 --> 00:35:50,836 Speaker 1: the big kids. I need to go, even though I 472 00:35:50,876 --> 00:35:53,836 Speaker 1: hate to love Kirston, I think you are the most 473 00:35:53,876 --> 00:35:56,276 Speaker 1: wonderful dad in the world. I love you right back. 474 00:35:56,396 --> 00:36:03,836 Speaker 1: I miss you. Come home soon. On the day Fred 475 00:36:03,916 --> 00:36:08,076 Speaker 1: was arrested, April third, nineteen eighty one, he left Malibu forever. 476 00:36:09,396 --> 00:36:14,396 Speaker 1: But he wasn't the only one. I mean, we didn't 477 00:36:14,396 --> 00:36:16,956 Speaker 1: get to say goodbye to our friends or our teachers 478 00:36:17,036 --> 00:36:19,196 Speaker 1: or anything like. I mean, we were kids. So the 479 00:36:19,236 --> 00:36:21,716 Speaker 1: way that they explained it to us was there's been 480 00:36:21,756 --> 00:36:25,436 Speaker 1: a huge like misunderstanding and that we're gonna you know, 481 00:36:25,836 --> 00:36:28,556 Speaker 1: we're hiring these really smart people and they're gonna help 482 00:36:28,596 --> 00:36:31,876 Speaker 1: and we're gonna like sort it out. But that's what 483 00:36:31,916 --> 00:36:34,116 Speaker 1: we just kept being told that it was a misunderstanding. 484 00:36:34,796 --> 00:36:38,476 Speaker 1: And when our uncle picked us up, we never went 485 00:36:38,556 --> 00:36:44,556 Speaker 1: back to Malibu. The girls started new lives and didn't 486 00:36:44,556 --> 00:36:47,196 Speaker 1: tell their new friends the story of Verna and Doug 487 00:36:48,436 --> 00:36:51,756 Speaker 1: or that Fred was in prison for killing them, but 488 00:36:51,836 --> 00:36:57,756 Speaker 1: they kept a secret vigil. Here's Kirsten. We weren't told like, Okay, 489 00:36:57,796 --> 00:37:00,156 Speaker 1: this is your life now, like this is how it 490 00:37:00,236 --> 00:37:02,196 Speaker 1: is and we're going forward like it was. It was 491 00:37:02,276 --> 00:37:06,276 Speaker 1: always this. You know, we're going to straighten this out. 492 00:37:06,356 --> 00:37:10,356 Speaker 1: We're going to bring him home. I mean, even after 493 00:37:10,476 --> 00:37:13,876 Speaker 1: the conviction and the appeals. I mean, I have memories 494 00:37:13,876 --> 00:37:15,716 Speaker 1: of being at school. I'm like, I might go home 495 00:37:15,716 --> 00:37:18,076 Speaker 1: today and my dad might be there, and I mean 496 00:37:18,636 --> 00:37:22,556 Speaker 1: I don't know which appeal it was. But one time, 497 00:37:22,676 --> 00:37:25,396 Speaker 1: Heidi Stephen and I Stephen is our cousin that we 498 00:37:25,396 --> 00:37:30,436 Speaker 1: grew up with, made confetti with a single whole punch 499 00:37:30,596 --> 00:37:34,716 Speaker 1: like punch paper, made all this confetti and then literally 500 00:37:34,756 --> 00:37:40,396 Speaker 1: practiced throwing it, picking it all up and doing there 501 00:37:40,436 --> 00:37:43,276 Speaker 1: like welcome home, and then we would throw it on 502 00:37:43,316 --> 00:37:45,956 Speaker 1: somebody walking through the door, and then we would pick 503 00:37:45,996 --> 00:37:48,636 Speaker 1: all these tiny pieces of confetti up, put it back 504 00:37:48,636 --> 00:37:50,916 Speaker 1: in the bag, and then somebody else's turned like literally 505 00:37:50,956 --> 00:37:56,116 Speaker 1: practicing his homecoming. We're so excited, and we use that 506 00:37:56,196 --> 00:38:00,676 Speaker 1: analogy today. My husband will say, like if something like 507 00:38:00,716 --> 00:38:03,196 Speaker 1: we're hoping for something, He's like, well, let's not make 508 00:38:03,236 --> 00:38:07,156 Speaker 1: this a confetti incident. And it's it's true because we, 509 00:38:07,596 --> 00:38:09,556 Speaker 1: like she said, we were so excited. I did, and 510 00:38:09,596 --> 00:38:13,076 Speaker 1: I was thinking, oh my god, today's the day I'm 511 00:38:13,076 --> 00:38:15,436 Speaker 1: gonna go home with my dad and my sisters and 512 00:38:15,716 --> 00:38:18,516 Speaker 1: you know, get our dog back from Annie Julie and 513 00:38:18,596 --> 00:38:23,756 Speaker 1: just be back together. And it was just disappointment after disappointment. 514 00:38:23,796 --> 00:38:30,796 Speaker 1: And I mean, I know Kirston is the sisters were 515 00:38:30,836 --> 00:38:33,236 Speaker 1: waiting for their dad to come back and make everything 516 00:38:33,276 --> 00:38:38,676 Speaker 1: okay again, and they're still waiting today for what they 517 00:38:38,756 --> 00:38:44,876 Speaker 1: believe is justice, Fred's release. But there's someone else in 518 00:38:44,876 --> 00:38:48,516 Speaker 1: this story who's waiting for justice too, and that person 519 00:38:48,796 --> 00:39:01,236 Speaker 1: is Heidi and Kirsten's mother, Fred's first wife, Jean. Coming 520 00:39:01,316 --> 00:39:04,956 Speaker 1: up on the season finale of Lost Hills, a detective 521 00:39:05,076 --> 00:39:08,436 Speaker 1: visits Bird Rock. I'm looking at that and I see 522 00:39:08,436 --> 00:39:10,236 Speaker 1: all the rocks. I'm like, those are all tombstones. That's 523 00:39:10,276 --> 00:39:12,916 Speaker 1: all death. That's how I look at it, like, I 524 00:39:13,036 --> 00:39:16,796 Speaker 1: just this is a weird I got a creepy feeling. 525 00:39:17,836 --> 00:39:19,596 Speaker 1: This whole place is not what I thought it would be. 526 00:39:20,676 --> 00:39:27,676 Speaker 1: That's next in episode ten. Lifelines Lost Tails is written 527 00:39:27,676 --> 00:39:30,916 Speaker 1: and reported by Me Dana Goodyear. It's created by me 528 00:39:31,076 --> 00:39:34,876 Speaker 1: and Ben Adair and produced by Western Sound and Pushkin Industries. 529 00:39:35,876 --> 00:39:38,036 Speaker 1: Subscribe to Pushkin Plus and you can hear the whole 530 00:39:38,036 --> 00:39:40,636 Speaker 1: season add free and get early access to the final 531 00:39:40,676 --> 00:39:44,156 Speaker 1: two episodes. Find Pushkin Plus on the Lost Hills show 532 00:39:44,196 --> 00:40:03,116 Speaker 1: page in Apple Podcasts, or at pushkin dot Fm.