1 00:00:15,066 --> 00:00:33,076 Speaker 1: Pushkin. When I first got in touch with Fred's daughter, Kirsten, 2 00:00:33,456 --> 00:00:35,796 Speaker 1: she told me she and her sisters had tons of 3 00:00:35,866 --> 00:00:41,466 Speaker 1: materials related to Fred's case. Court filings, notes, pictures, police reports, 4 00:00:42,006 --> 00:00:46,526 Speaker 1: tapes of the actual investigation into Fred, All this stuff 5 00:00:46,566 --> 00:00:49,246 Speaker 1: was sitting in boxes in a hayloft at Heidi's place 6 00:00:49,406 --> 00:00:54,026 Speaker 1: in Colorado, which is actually her grandparents' ranch, where her mother, Jean, 7 00:00:54,226 --> 00:00:59,216 Speaker 1: grew up. So over the summer, when all three sisters, Heidi, Kirsten, 8 00:00:59,256 --> 00:01:01,276 Speaker 1: and Kim, were going to be together at the ranch, 9 00:01:02,096 --> 00:01:04,116 Speaker 1: I went out there to meet them and have a 10 00:01:04,136 --> 00:01:10,216 Speaker 1: look at the trove of documents. We climbed into the 11 00:01:10,256 --> 00:01:13,616 Speaker 1: hayloft and opened a box. It was full of letters 12 00:01:13,696 --> 00:01:16,956 Speaker 1: the sisters had written to Fred, Heidi pulled one out. 13 00:01:18,116 --> 00:01:19,136 Speaker 1: It was in her handwriting. 14 00:01:19,156 --> 00:01:26,076 Speaker 2: Okay, so this is dated April 18th, 1981. 15 00:01:26,056 --> 00:01:29,336 Speaker 3: So weeks after he was arrested. 16 00:01:29,396 --> 00:01:34,036 Speaker 2: Yeah, weeks after. Dear Dad, how are you? I am fine. 17 00:01:34,876 --> 00:01:36,166 Speaker 2: By the way, I'm 10 years old. 18 00:01:36,786 --> 00:01:38,386 Speaker 4: Just FYI. 19 00:01:38,396 --> 00:01:40,966 Speaker 2: I had a fun time talking to you. I hope 20 00:01:41,006 --> 00:01:44,746 Speaker 2: you have a happy, happy Easter. I miss you very, very, 21 00:01:44,826 --> 00:01:47,146 Speaker 2: very much. Here's a joke. 22 00:01:47,626 --> 00:01:48,186 Speaker 5: Knock, knock. 23 00:01:48,266 --> 00:01:48,806 Speaker 2: Who's there? 24 00:01:48,906 --> 00:01:49,386 Speaker 5: Boo-hoo. 25 00:01:49,586 --> 00:01:50,726 Speaker 3: Why are you crying? 26 00:01:51,606 --> 00:01:53,626 Speaker 2: I wish you could come out of jail soon. You 27 00:01:53,686 --> 00:01:55,086 Speaker 2: never did anything wrong. 28 00:01:55,966 --> 00:01:56,486 Speaker 5: I love you. 29 00:01:56,786 --> 00:01:57,666 Speaker 2: We're on your side. 30 00:01:57,726 --> 00:01:58,306 Speaker 5: Love, Heidi. 31 00:01:58,636 --> 00:01:59,006 Speaker 3: P.S. 32 00:01:59,196 --> 00:01:59,976 Speaker 2: Please write back. 33 00:02:00,286 --> 00:02:00,726 Speaker 5: I love you. 34 00:02:04,696 --> 00:02:08,916 Speaker 1: It started raining. One of those afternoon summer storms you 35 00:02:08,936 --> 00:02:12,716 Speaker 1: get in Colorado. Heidi pulled out another letter. 36 00:02:13,776 --> 00:02:18,986 Speaker 2: April 16th, 1981. It says, what have you been doing? 37 00:02:19,226 --> 00:02:21,886 Speaker 2: We can see you Sunday. I love you very, very much. 38 00:02:22,666 --> 00:02:26,566 Speaker 2: You would never do anything so wrong. You're so nice 39 00:02:26,626 --> 00:02:30,126 Speaker 2: to Mom and Doug. And then it says, Muffet and 40 00:02:30,226 --> 00:02:31,446 Speaker 2: Lady are not getting along. 41 00:02:31,466 --> 00:02:34,126 Speaker 5: Those are dogs. 42 00:02:36,296 --> 00:02:40,016 Speaker 1: Lady, their beagle, who survived the journey to Bird Rock. 43 00:02:40,796 --> 00:02:43,276 Speaker 1: She'd gone with the sisters to live with Fred's brother 44 00:02:43,356 --> 00:02:46,436 Speaker 1: Ron and his wife Elizabeth, who had a Christmas tree farm. 45 00:02:46,876 --> 00:02:47,926 Speaker 1: far away from Malibu. 46 00:02:47,936 --> 00:02:55,706 Speaker 3: I'm just going to flip that in after you are 47 00:02:55,746 --> 00:02:57,666 Speaker 3: clearly innocent and the dogs are fighting. 48 00:03:01,126 --> 00:03:06,626 Speaker 1: Eventually, Lady went to live with Verna's sister, Julianne. That 49 00:03:06,646 --> 00:03:08,566 Speaker 1: must have been heartbreaking to have Lady leave. 50 00:03:08,986 --> 00:03:11,466 Speaker 2: Luckily, Annie Julie took her, but I remember when I 51 00:03:11,556 --> 00:03:14,726 Speaker 2: pulled into our house, And my Aunt Elizabeth and I 52 00:03:14,786 --> 00:03:18,446 Speaker 2: think Kim were standing in the driveway, and it didn't 53 00:03:18,466 --> 00:03:21,946 Speaker 2: look good. And I was just like, oh, no. And 54 00:03:21,966 --> 00:03:25,146 Speaker 2: they told me Lady died of cancer. So that was just, 55 00:03:26,136 --> 00:03:29,776 Speaker 2: that was like our last link, you know. And that 56 00:03:29,796 --> 00:03:33,056 Speaker 2: was really sad. And I also realized when Robin Williams 57 00:03:33,096 --> 00:03:36,376 Speaker 2: passed away, it hit me so hard because we would 58 00:03:36,416 --> 00:03:39,136 Speaker 2: watch Mork & Mindy with my dad. And it took 59 00:03:39,196 --> 00:03:41,996 Speaker 2: a while to realize, like, why so many people, but 60 00:03:42,016 --> 00:03:46,576 Speaker 2: it was... Robin Williams, Michael Landon, because that all connected 61 00:03:46,616 --> 00:03:50,116 Speaker 2: me to Malibu and my dad. And I think that's 62 00:03:50,156 --> 00:03:52,896 Speaker 2: when it hit me. I'm like, that's why it's so devastating, 63 00:03:52,996 --> 00:03:55,216 Speaker 2: because it was just part of our happy. 64 00:03:54,996 --> 00:03:55,936 Speaker 5: Times, you know. 65 00:03:59,216 --> 00:04:00,636 Speaker 1: By now, it was pouring. 66 00:04:00,656 --> 00:04:02,076 Speaker 6: So July 7th, 1981. 67 00:04:02,056 --> 00:04:02,926 Speaker 7: Dear Dad, how are you? 68 00:04:02,936 --> 00:04:03,116 Speaker 3: I am fine. 69 00:04:03,156 --> 00:04:11,126 Speaker 2: Sorry I have not been writing. I love you and 70 00:04:11,186 --> 00:04:15,066 Speaker 2: miss you very, very much. This coming Tuesday, we are 71 00:04:15,106 --> 00:04:17,866 Speaker 2: going to San Diego. I hope you are out by then. 72 00:04:17,886 --> 00:04:24,436 Speaker 2: And then it says, who has been writing you? I 73 00:04:24,496 --> 00:04:25,376 Speaker 2: love you and miss you. 74 00:04:25,416 --> 00:04:26,096 Speaker 8: Love, Heidi. 75 00:04:26,936 --> 00:04:34,896 Speaker 2: And it says, your tops. Hope you're out by next Tuesday. 76 00:04:34,916 --> 00:04:43,016 Speaker 2: I'm like, Next Tuesday. How many Tuesdays has it been? 77 00:04:43,036 --> 00:04:45,056 Speaker 3: A lot. 78 00:04:55,526 --> 00:04:59,556 Speaker 1: I'm Dana Goodyear, and this is Lost Hills. 79 00:05:00,856 --> 00:05:04,276 Speaker 8: Lost Hills. 80 00:05:26,296 --> 00:05:34,576 Speaker 1: Episode 9, Prejudicial Effect Authorities believed that Fred Raylor had 81 00:05:34,616 --> 00:05:39,736 Speaker 1: conceived the perfect crime, like something out of Hitchcock. On 82 00:05:39,776 --> 00:05:43,076 Speaker 1: a holiday weekend, with so many people around, with his 83 00:05:43,156 --> 00:05:46,546 Speaker 1: own parents on the sailboat nearby, the next best thing 84 00:05:46,586 --> 00:05:49,946 Speaker 1: to an alibi, he'd managed to kill Verna and Doug 85 00:05:50,106 --> 00:05:53,506 Speaker 1: without leaving obvious marks, so that when the three of 86 00:05:53,546 --> 00:05:56,416 Speaker 1: them were discovered in the frigid water... He'd appear to 87 00:05:56,456 --> 00:06:01,316 Speaker 1: be rescuing them. But how to prove it? To do that, 88 00:06:01,536 --> 00:06:05,086 Speaker 1: the DA, Stan Roden, had to look at every possible angle. 89 00:06:06,006 --> 00:06:12,786 Speaker 9: Stan was just tenacious. He was just like a bulldog 90 00:06:12,826 --> 00:06:13,626 Speaker 9: with his teeth in it. 91 00:06:14,676 --> 00:06:17,356 Speaker 1: Stan Roden didn't respond to my request for an interview. 92 00:06:17,936 --> 00:06:20,816 Speaker 1: So this is Dempsey Billy, one of Roden's investigators. 93 00:06:21,436 --> 00:06:24,936 Speaker 9: A lot of times, Stan would say something, say what 94 00:06:24,956 --> 00:06:26,456 Speaker 9: you can find out about this, and I'd say, Stan, 95 00:06:26,896 --> 00:06:30,846 Speaker 9: you can't do that, no way. So I'd go do it, 96 00:06:30,866 --> 00:06:33,526 Speaker 9: and sure enough, he'd be right, we'd find whatever he. 97 00:06:33,446 --> 00:06:34,106 Speaker 10: Was looking for. 98 00:06:35,406 --> 00:06:38,566 Speaker 1: In a criminal case, the standard jury instructions are that 99 00:06:38,586 --> 00:06:42,536 Speaker 1: the government must prove the defendant's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, 100 00:06:43,296 --> 00:06:47,516 Speaker 1: but not to a scientific certainty. The case against Fred, 101 00:06:47,836 --> 00:06:51,816 Speaker 1: the mysterious drownings of his wife and stepson, the insurance policies, 102 00:06:52,556 --> 00:06:55,436 Speaker 1: and in the background, the story of another wife who'd 103 00:06:55,456 --> 00:07:01,196 Speaker 1: also drowned inexplicably, it all looked bad, but also potentially 104 00:07:01,726 --> 00:07:07,986 Speaker 1: like bad luck. Maybe Fred was a Malibu Job, pitiable, cursed. 105 00:07:08,946 --> 00:07:11,666 Speaker 1: That's what his friends thought. Here's Mike Killeen. 106 00:07:12,546 --> 00:07:15,756 Speaker 7: You have to ask yourself, is it possible for a 107 00:07:15,766 --> 00:07:19,076 Speaker 7: human being from day one to be snake-bitten? You know, 108 00:07:19,096 --> 00:07:21,656 Speaker 7: I use that term, but you know how it applies 109 00:07:21,696 --> 00:07:26,216 Speaker 7: to various things. Is that possible? He'd turn left, he'd 110 00:07:26,256 --> 00:07:29,176 Speaker 7: turn right, and things would go wrong. And it was 111 00:07:29,306 --> 00:07:34,266 Speaker 7: all built up as circumstance to create this character who 112 00:07:34,326 --> 00:07:35,226 Speaker 7: really wasn't Fred. 113 00:07:36,506 --> 00:07:40,366 Speaker 1: There was room for a healthy dose of doubt. Stan 114 00:07:40,386 --> 00:07:43,856 Speaker 1: Roden had to try to make his case empirically by 115 00:07:43,886 --> 00:07:48,606 Speaker 1: presenting the jury with science, because the circumstances... all those 116 00:07:48,666 --> 00:07:53,786 Speaker 1: suspicious coincidences might not be enough. But how could he 117 00:07:53,846 --> 00:07:58,356 Speaker 1: do that when there was so little physical evidence? That's 118 00:07:58,416 --> 00:08:03,596 Speaker 1: where Dr. Thomas Noguchi, the longtime, weirdly famous L.A. County coroner, 119 00:08:03,656 --> 00:08:11,426 Speaker 1: came in. Noguchi was the so-called coroner to the stars. 120 00:08:12,046 --> 00:08:16,486 Speaker 1: He'd done Marilyn and RFK and Sharon Tate. He'd also 121 00:08:16,526 --> 00:08:19,656 Speaker 1: been the coroner when Fred's first wife, Jean, had died. 122 00:08:20,536 --> 00:08:25,796 Speaker 1: And his office signed off on her death as an accident. Now, 123 00:08:26,036 --> 00:08:28,756 Speaker 1: the Santa Barbara DA wanted Noguchi to help figure out 124 00:08:28,956 --> 00:08:32,296 Speaker 1: what had caused those bruises discovered in the second autopsies. 125 00:08:33,436 --> 00:08:35,106 Speaker 1: The ones on the back of Doug's head. 126 00:08:35,126 --> 00:08:41,646 Speaker 10: He was a crackerjack forensic pathologist. He really knew his stuff. 127 00:08:42,606 --> 00:08:46,686 Speaker 1: That's Dwayne Mose, the criminalist. He worked alongside Noguchi to 128 00:08:46,766 --> 00:08:51,246 Speaker 1: recreate the last moments of Doug's life. Together, they designed 129 00:08:51,286 --> 00:08:55,696 Speaker 1: a series of experiments centered on Fred's orange dory, the 130 00:08:55,736 --> 00:08:58,096 Speaker 1: boat he'd been rowing in with Ferna and Doug, which 131 00:08:58,156 --> 00:09:01,296 Speaker 1: he said had overturned in the open ocean by bird rock. 132 00:09:02,776 --> 00:09:05,476 Speaker 1: Noguchi was eccentric and controversial. 133 00:09:06,836 --> 00:09:11,476 Speaker 10: He'd walk around the corner's office waving a scapel and 134 00:09:11,576 --> 00:09:14,276 Speaker 10: telling people, sooner or later, I'll get you on a table. 135 00:09:15,046 --> 00:09:19,166 Speaker 10: or words to that effect. And people complained about that. 136 00:09:20,026 --> 00:09:23,706 Speaker 10: So they removed him from his office as L.A. County 137 00:09:23,786 --> 00:09:27,906 Speaker 10: coroner and sent him to be a pathologist at the 138 00:09:27,956 --> 00:09:32,836 Speaker 10: County USC Hospital, which is just east of downtown L.A. 139 00:09:33,596 --> 00:09:36,816 Speaker 10: And Dr. Noguchi put a sign on his office door 140 00:09:36,876 --> 00:09:38,836 Speaker 10: that said, coroner in exile. 141 00:09:39,796 --> 00:09:42,876 Speaker 1: The experiments didn't take place in Dr. Noguchi's lab. 142 00:09:42,896 --> 00:09:42,956 Speaker 4: No. 143 00:09:43,816 --> 00:09:47,956 Speaker 1: No. They happened at Noguchi's apartment building in Marina del Rey. 144 00:09:49,236 --> 00:09:53,096 Speaker 10: The sheriff would haul down the dory. We'd do some 145 00:09:53,136 --> 00:09:55,396 Speaker 10: work with it, then they'd haul it back when we 146 00:09:55,436 --> 00:09:55,936 Speaker 10: were done. 147 00:09:57,316 --> 00:09:59,796 Speaker 1: Their working theory was that Verna had been struck with 148 00:09:59,836 --> 00:10:02,986 Speaker 1: an oar, but they didn't have the oars from Fred's dory. 149 00:10:03,606 --> 00:10:05,566 Speaker 1: They were probably in the middle of the ocean somewhere. 150 00:10:07,206 --> 00:10:09,656 Speaker 1: So they focused on Doug and the bruises on the 151 00:10:09,696 --> 00:10:13,116 Speaker 1: back of his head, a linear bruise and a circular bruise, 152 00:10:13,516 --> 00:10:19,316 Speaker 1: three centimeters apart. That pattern repeated twice. They took a 153 00:10:19,376 --> 00:10:23,736 Speaker 1: Doug-sized dummy with a Doug-sized dummy head, and they bashed 154 00:10:23,816 --> 00:10:28,106 Speaker 1: it on every surface they could think of. 102 times 155 00:10:28,166 --> 00:10:32,046 Speaker 1: they bashed the dummy head, and they found a match. 156 00:10:33,246 --> 00:10:39,126 Speaker 10: I tested the dory inside and out from bow to stern. 157 00:10:40,096 --> 00:10:44,896 Speaker 10: Nothing panned out except one place. And that particular place 158 00:10:45,956 --> 00:10:49,696 Speaker 10: was the edge of the seat in the middle of 159 00:10:49,736 --> 00:10:51,736 Speaker 10: the dory where the rower would sit. 160 00:10:53,456 --> 00:10:57,686 Speaker 1: Stan Roden liked it. But Noguchi couldn't testify. He was 161 00:10:57,726 --> 00:10:58,306 Speaker 1: in disgrace. 162 00:10:59,566 --> 00:11:02,966 Speaker 10: So Stanley Rodin and I had to sit down and 163 00:11:03,046 --> 00:11:06,986 Speaker 10: figure out what I could testify to and what was 164 00:11:07,166 --> 00:11:10,386 Speaker 10: out of bounds because I'm not a medical doctor. I 165 00:11:10,426 --> 00:11:12,386 Speaker 10: could not express a medical opinion. 166 00:11:15,506 --> 00:11:21,286 Speaker 1: And that's how Dwayne Mose, criminalist, became Stan Rodin's star 167 00:11:21,326 --> 00:11:24,926 Speaker 1: witness in what would be the longest and most expensive 168 00:11:24,966 --> 00:11:32,276 Speaker 1: trial in Santa Barbara history. 105 days, four dozen witnesses, 169 00:11:33,086 --> 00:12:01,156 Speaker 1: and one orange dory. The trial for the murders of 170 00:12:01,196 --> 00:12:05,336 Speaker 1: Verna and Doug started on December 15, 1981, in Santa 171 00:12:05,356 --> 00:12:11,536 Speaker 1: Barbara's majestic Spanish-style courthouse. The courtroom was packed, standing room. 172 00:12:12,326 --> 00:12:16,146 Speaker 1: Fred's family was there. So was Verna's mother. They were 173 00:12:16,206 --> 00:12:22,066 Speaker 1: supporting Fred. There were journalists and screenwriters and looky-loos. The 174 00:12:22,106 --> 00:12:25,866 Speaker 1: famous mystery writer Margaret Millar was a regular. She lived 175 00:12:25,906 --> 00:12:28,796 Speaker 1: in Santa Barbara. and had made her name writing chilling 176 00:12:28,856 --> 00:12:33,656 Speaker 1: tales of marital deceit. This plotline was right up her alley. 177 00:12:35,136 --> 00:12:38,166 Speaker 1: In California, for someone to be sentenced to death or 178 00:12:38,206 --> 00:12:41,586 Speaker 1: life in prison without the possibility of parole, their crime 179 00:12:41,626 --> 00:12:47,426 Speaker 1: must meet certain criteria called special circumstances. In Fred's case, 180 00:12:47,706 --> 00:12:51,876 Speaker 1: there were three alleged special circumstances. There was more than 181 00:12:51,956 --> 00:12:57,036 Speaker 1: one victim. That was special circumstance number one. Special circumstances 182 00:12:57,076 --> 00:13:00,516 Speaker 1: numbers two and three were the motive of financial gain, 183 00:13:01,156 --> 00:13:04,456 Speaker 1: the insurance payouts from the freshly inked policies on Verna 184 00:13:04,536 --> 00:13:08,696 Speaker 1: and Doug. If Fred was convicted and any of the 185 00:13:08,756 --> 00:13:12,446 Speaker 1: special circumstances were found to apply, he'd be eligible for 186 00:13:12,486 --> 00:13:16,486 Speaker 1: the most severe sentence. And Stan Roden, the district attorney, 187 00:13:17,006 --> 00:13:19,766 Speaker 1: was hoping to send Fred to the gas chamber at 188 00:13:19,826 --> 00:13:20,506 Speaker 1: San Quentin. 189 00:13:21,546 --> 00:13:25,066 Speaker 6: Roden wanted to try a spectacle involving rich people and 190 00:13:25,736 --> 00:13:27,976 Speaker 6: insurance and made for TV and that kind of thing. 191 00:13:29,036 --> 00:13:32,816 Speaker 1: That's appellate attorney Wendy Lasher. She attended every day of 192 00:13:32,876 --> 00:13:37,136 Speaker 1: Fred's trial, taking notes, because even before the trial started, 193 00:13:37,576 --> 00:13:41,636 Speaker 1: she was laying the groundwork for an appeal. I asked 194 00:13:41,686 --> 00:13:43,186 Speaker 1: her what she remembered about Rodin. 195 00:13:44,116 --> 00:13:52,666 Speaker 6: Tall, thin at the time, energetic, aggressive, pleasant on the surface, 196 00:13:52,846 --> 00:13:56,506 Speaker 6: but kind of devious. I wouldn't quite go so far 197 00:13:56,546 --> 00:14:01,746 Speaker 6: as to say unscrupulous, but certainly pushing the envelope in 198 00:14:01,766 --> 00:14:05,086 Speaker 6: terms of what he could do. I'm definitely concerned about 199 00:14:05,126 --> 00:14:09,686 Speaker 6: his reputation and making his way as an aggressive leading 200 00:14:09,786 --> 00:14:13,566 Speaker 6: prosecutor in the world a little bit politician-like. 201 00:14:14,886 --> 00:14:18,696 Speaker 1: At the outset, the defense was feeling strong. Fred had 202 00:14:18,736 --> 00:14:21,396 Speaker 1: been working out every day in jail. and the papers 203 00:14:21,436 --> 00:14:24,876 Speaker 1: were full of admiring descriptions of his thick, curly hair 204 00:14:25,196 --> 00:14:28,366 Speaker 1: and athletic physique. At the time of his arrest, he'd 205 00:14:28,406 --> 00:14:31,446 Speaker 1: worn a full beard. His team didn't think that look 206 00:14:31,466 --> 00:14:35,126 Speaker 1: would fly in conservative Santa Barbara County. They thought it 207 00:14:35,166 --> 00:14:39,316 Speaker 1: made him look Rasputin-ish, like he was hiding something. He 208 00:14:39,366 --> 00:14:43,416 Speaker 1: came to court with a clean shave. The concerns Fred 209 00:14:43,456 --> 00:14:46,776 Speaker 1: had about being indicted for killing Verna's first husband and 210 00:14:46,796 --> 00:14:49,896 Speaker 1: the Navy diver who drowned while using Fred's scuba equipment 211 00:14:50,176 --> 00:14:53,386 Speaker 1: were gone. the DA appeared to have dropped those lines 212 00:14:53,406 --> 00:14:58,366 Speaker 1: of inquiry. All Fred's prior sketchy insurance history? It might 213 00:14:58,386 --> 00:15:01,526 Speaker 1: as well have disappeared, too. The judge wasn't going to 214 00:15:01,576 --> 00:15:05,736 Speaker 1: allow the prosecution to introduce it. And Fred's defense attorney 215 00:15:05,816 --> 00:15:09,316 Speaker 1: had scored a significant victory on the matter of Jean. 216 00:15:10,176 --> 00:15:13,236 Speaker 1: The judge had ruled to exclude all evidence regarding the 217 00:15:13,276 --> 00:15:15,756 Speaker 1: death of Fred's first wife from the guilt phase of 218 00:15:15,796 --> 00:15:20,536 Speaker 1: his trial. The judge said, its prejudicial effect... would far 219 00:15:20,676 --> 00:15:24,836 Speaker 1: outweigh its probative value. In other words, the story of 220 00:15:24,896 --> 00:15:28,176 Speaker 1: Jean's death wouldn't prove Fred had killed Verna or Doug, 221 00:15:28,696 --> 00:15:31,336 Speaker 1: but it would almost certainly persuade the jury that he had. 222 00:15:32,516 --> 00:15:35,196 Speaker 1: The defense also made a motion to quash the results 223 00:15:35,236 --> 00:15:38,896 Speaker 1: of the Santa Barbara autopsies. They'd been conducted in secret, 224 00:15:39,186 --> 00:15:42,126 Speaker 1: and then the bodies had been cremated, so Fred's defense 225 00:15:42,266 --> 00:15:45,946 Speaker 1: couldn't effectively counter their findings. Here's Wendy Lasher. 226 00:15:47,106 --> 00:15:51,786 Speaker 6: What they found in the autopsies, or said that they found, 227 00:15:52,366 --> 00:15:55,926 Speaker 6: was like looking at Rorschach tests. You know, you could 228 00:15:55,986 --> 00:16:00,276 Speaker 6: see what you wanted in those autopsy results, but you 229 00:16:00,296 --> 00:16:03,916 Speaker 6: had no opportunity to look and to say, preserve evidence 230 00:16:03,956 --> 00:16:06,016 Speaker 6: that you could later say, see if you look at 231 00:16:06,056 --> 00:16:08,276 Speaker 6: it this way, it doesn't show any such thing. 232 00:16:09,676 --> 00:16:13,756 Speaker 1: That motion was denied. The second autopsies would be allowed. 233 00:16:14,336 --> 00:16:17,996 Speaker 1: In fact, Stan Roden would call them the linchpin of 234 00:16:18,036 --> 00:16:29,606 Speaker 1: the case. Stan Roden spent months arguing motive, that Fred 235 00:16:29,646 --> 00:16:32,146 Speaker 1: was running out of money and that his lifestyle was 236 00:16:32,186 --> 00:16:37,026 Speaker 1: demanding more and more cash. Roden argued Fred wanted freedom, 237 00:16:37,616 --> 00:16:42,136 Speaker 1: an unencumbered, newly flushed life in Malibu with houses and 238 00:16:42,176 --> 00:16:46,576 Speaker 1: a sailboat and money to burn. Here's appellate attorney Wendy 239 00:16:46,636 --> 00:16:47,276 Speaker 1: Lasher again. 240 00:16:48,276 --> 00:16:51,116 Speaker 6: People like stories about rich people and rich people doing 241 00:16:51,196 --> 00:16:55,876 Speaker 6: bad things. You know, this is mythology. If somebody got 242 00:16:56,276 --> 00:17:01,606 Speaker 6: life insurance and killed their wife in a glamorous situation 243 00:17:01,626 --> 00:17:06,146 Speaker 6: on a yacht, you know, on a holiday weekend, wow, 244 00:17:06,206 --> 00:17:08,366 Speaker 6: that's a big deal. And look, we've got this highly 245 00:17:08,446 --> 00:17:12,566 Speaker 6: technical evidence about it. We're such a hot shot prosecution 246 00:17:12,606 --> 00:17:15,596 Speaker 6: that we can do this. They also had the thing 247 00:17:15,666 --> 00:17:19,546 Speaker 6: about Fred had $ 30, 000 in cash in a coffee can 248 00:17:19,606 --> 00:17:23,306 Speaker 6: in his freezer. And they tried to make that out as, 249 00:17:24,126 --> 00:17:26,386 Speaker 6: you know, clearly he was going to kill these people 250 00:17:26,466 --> 00:17:29,146 Speaker 6: and escape to Mexico with this cash and live on it. 251 00:17:30,306 --> 00:17:32,066 Speaker 6: You know, make a new life for himself. 252 00:17:34,526 --> 00:17:37,746 Speaker 1: The DA called Dr. DeWitt Hunter to the stand in 253 00:17:37,786 --> 00:17:42,576 Speaker 1: January of 1982. Hunter was the Santa Barbara pathologist whose 254 00:17:42,676 --> 00:17:47,566 Speaker 1: autopsy reports indicated trauma to Verna and Doug. The prosecution 255 00:17:47,606 --> 00:17:50,426 Speaker 1: didn't present evidence about Fred using an oar to strike 256 00:17:50,486 --> 00:17:54,286 Speaker 1: Verna's head, because they had no oar. But Hunter did 257 00:17:54,326 --> 00:17:57,226 Speaker 1: present a slide that he said showed a crush effect 258 00:17:57,566 --> 00:18:02,076 Speaker 1: on Verna's scalp. A minor traumatic injury that had happened 259 00:18:02,236 --> 00:18:05,036 Speaker 1: a minute to a minute and a half before her death. 260 00:18:06,876 --> 00:18:09,236 Speaker 1: He said the trauma to Doug had also not been 261 00:18:09,296 --> 00:18:13,276 Speaker 1: lethal and occurred before Doug's death. In other words, Doug 262 00:18:13,316 --> 00:18:16,556 Speaker 1: had hit his head, or had his head hit, before 263 00:18:16,616 --> 00:18:20,476 Speaker 1: he drowned. The story was there, he said, in a 264 00:18:20,576 --> 00:18:21,876 Speaker 1: single hair follicle. 265 00:18:22,976 --> 00:18:26,696 Speaker 11: They had preserved the whole hair, the follicle and the 266 00:18:26,736 --> 00:18:27,336 Speaker 11: hair itself. 267 00:18:28,176 --> 00:18:31,136 Speaker 1: This is Dr. Michael Bodden, who for 25 years was 268 00:18:31,176 --> 00:18:33,996 Speaker 1: the chief forensic pathologist for the New York State Police. 269 00:18:34,856 --> 00:18:37,736 Speaker 1: Fred's family asked him to review his case, and he 270 00:18:37,816 --> 00:18:41,036 Speaker 1: says the single-hair theory was a misreading of the evidence. 271 00:18:42,316 --> 00:18:45,736 Speaker 11: He testified that he could look at that hair under 272 00:18:45,756 --> 00:18:48,616 Speaker 11: the microscope and tell that it had been crushed by 273 00:18:48,656 --> 00:18:50,396 Speaker 11: a blunt object, one hair. 274 00:18:51,696 --> 00:18:54,536 Speaker 1: But Bodden says there was a very obvious and benign 275 00:18:54,596 --> 00:18:56,556 Speaker 1: reason for the damage to Doug's hair. 276 00:18:56,576 --> 00:19:00,626 Speaker 11: In order to reflect the scalp, one has to cut 277 00:19:00,686 --> 00:19:05,056 Speaker 11: through the hair and pull at the hair. and bruised 278 00:19:05,096 --> 00:19:10,296 Speaker 11: the hair with rolling, trying to lift the scalp tissue 279 00:19:10,416 --> 00:19:15,746 Speaker 11: off the skull bones, which causes blunt trauma to the hair. 280 00:19:16,626 --> 00:19:16,926 Speaker 12: Dr. 281 00:19:16,966 --> 00:19:20,946 Speaker 1: Duncan, who did the first autopsies in Ventura County, says Dr. 282 00:19:21,006 --> 00:19:22,746 Speaker 1: Hunter's findings were a joke. 283 00:19:23,926 --> 00:19:30,636 Speaker 8: Hunter was unqualified, unqualified to really interpret forensic autopsies, but 284 00:19:30,696 --> 00:19:34,876 Speaker 8: this was an especially troubling time re-autopsy case eight days 285 00:19:35,036 --> 00:19:40,016 Speaker 8: after death or thereabouts, seven days after an initial autopsy. 286 00:19:40,786 --> 00:19:46,086 Speaker 8: He was totally unqualified to interpret those findings, which changed dramatically. 287 00:19:46,606 --> 00:19:49,266 Speaker 8: And what he presented to court never should have been 288 00:19:49,306 --> 00:19:50,926 Speaker 8: allowed to be presented in court. 289 00:19:52,106 --> 00:19:54,726 Speaker 1: I couldn't get in touch with Hunter, but Duncan contends 290 00:19:54,766 --> 00:19:58,116 Speaker 1: that Hunter's lack of expertise sent the investigation down a 291 00:19:58,156 --> 00:20:02,826 Speaker 1: treacherous path. Because, he says, forensic pathology is an art 292 00:20:03,046 --> 00:20:07,176 Speaker 1: of exclusion. And Hunter saw meaning where there was none. 293 00:20:08,556 --> 00:20:13,176 Speaker 8: The difference between a non-trained pathologist and a forensic pathologist 294 00:20:13,616 --> 00:20:18,376 Speaker 8: is a forensic pathologist knows what not to interpret. An 295 00:20:18,456 --> 00:20:20,616 Speaker 8: untrained pathologist interprets everything. 296 00:20:21,856 --> 00:20:25,166 Speaker 1: Hunter's biggest error, according to Duncan, was that he failed 297 00:20:25,206 --> 00:20:28,406 Speaker 1: to account for the passage of time. The bruises and 298 00:20:28,446 --> 00:20:32,746 Speaker 1: markings that Hunter saw on January 9, 1981, that Duncan 299 00:20:32,786 --> 00:20:37,046 Speaker 1: had not noticed six days earlier on January 3, Duncan 300 00:20:37,106 --> 00:20:42,216 Speaker 1: says that's because the bruises weren't there on January 3. 301 00:20:42,216 --> 00:20:45,336 Speaker 1: He didn't miss the signs of trauma, he says. The 302 00:20:45,376 --> 00:20:49,676 Speaker 1: trauma was post-mortem. most likely a result of the first autopsies, 303 00:20:50,056 --> 00:20:53,336 Speaker 1: accentuated by time as the blood in Verna and Doug's 304 00:20:53,396 --> 00:21:00,226 Speaker 1: bodies settled and pooled. The marks were artifacts, phantoms, not 305 00:21:00,356 --> 00:21:02,046 Speaker 1: maliciously inflicted wounds. 306 00:21:03,666 --> 00:21:07,386 Speaker 8: It's more like a photograph of a ghost that wasn't 307 00:21:07,446 --> 00:21:11,486 Speaker 8: there and now appears to be there. And it was nothing. 308 00:21:13,106 --> 00:21:15,246 Speaker 1: Even the bruises on the back of Doug's head. 309 00:21:16,146 --> 00:21:20,406 Speaker 8: That I contend is from post-mortem artifact from the way 310 00:21:20,426 --> 00:21:26,336 Speaker 8: bodies are stored. The bodies are laid on a head brace, 311 00:21:26,916 --> 00:21:30,916 Speaker 8: and they sit that way for a week. He's describing 312 00:21:31,036 --> 00:21:36,616 Speaker 8: artifacts as if they were significant throughout the autopsy, and 313 00:21:36,776 --> 00:21:41,076 Speaker 8: once you're doing that, you know, that's crazy from a 314 00:21:41,096 --> 00:21:45,276 Speaker 8: forensic pathology point of view. So it's... It's kind of 315 00:21:45,336 --> 00:21:47,556 Speaker 8: clown car pathology. 316 00:21:49,276 --> 00:21:53,516 Speaker 1: According to Duncan, the second autopsies served their purpose. They 317 00:21:53,596 --> 00:21:57,386 Speaker 1: produced evidence for the DA to use against Fred Raylor. 318 00:21:58,746 --> 00:22:02,846 Speaker 8: I contend it was orchestrated to be used as an 319 00:22:02,906 --> 00:22:04,466 Speaker 8: agenda for the prosecution. 320 00:22:05,986 --> 00:22:09,216 Speaker 1: And that's not as far-fetched as it sounds. Because in 321 00:22:09,256 --> 00:22:12,456 Speaker 1: Santa Barbara County, the coroner's office is part of the 322 00:22:12,496 --> 00:22:17,576 Speaker 1: sheriff's department. Hunter was working for law enforcement. Detectives Ray 323 00:22:17,676 --> 00:22:21,396 Speaker 1: and Tuller were present for the autopsies. They wanted clues, 324 00:22:22,196 --> 00:22:30,296 Speaker 1: and he produced them. When it was time for Dwayne Mose, 325 00:22:30,666 --> 00:22:34,366 Speaker 1: the criminalist, to testify about the dummy tests, the DA 326 00:22:34,406 --> 00:22:38,386 Speaker 1: arranged for the orange dory, all 138 pounds of it, 327 00:22:38,906 --> 00:22:42,166 Speaker 1: to be delivered to the Santa Barbara courthouse. And with 328 00:22:42,226 --> 00:22:47,946 Speaker 1: that prop in place, Mose demonstrated his experiments to spectacular effect. 329 00:22:48,926 --> 00:22:54,706 Speaker 10: One of the exhibits at court was a one-to-one picture 330 00:22:55,606 --> 00:22:58,936 Speaker 10: of the back of Douglas' head with the scalp pulled 331 00:22:58,976 --> 00:23:05,736 Speaker 10: back and a transparent overlay of the pattern on the 332 00:23:05,776 --> 00:23:10,656 Speaker 10: back of the test dummy. And I overlaid the transparency 333 00:23:11,116 --> 00:23:15,326 Speaker 10: from the test dummy on top of Douglas Johnson's head, 334 00:23:16,466 --> 00:23:20,206 Speaker 10: and the patterns match. Nothing was off. 335 00:23:21,426 --> 00:23:24,566 Speaker 1: Mose had a dummy the same size and weight as Doug, 336 00:23:25,146 --> 00:23:28,286 Speaker 1: so he acted out the murder as the prosecution imagined it. 337 00:23:28,926 --> 00:23:33,036 Speaker 1: A beating, then a drowning. Here's Fred's friend, Mike Killeen. 338 00:23:34,096 --> 00:23:37,156 Speaker 7: It was very dramatic. He took the dummy and he 339 00:23:37,336 --> 00:23:41,776 Speaker 7: slammed it against the boat. And somehow, I think on 340 00:23:41,816 --> 00:23:44,696 Speaker 7: his hat or something, there was some carbon... something that 341 00:23:45,516 --> 00:23:49,836 Speaker 7: created a pattern. And that pattern was the same pattern 342 00:23:50,016 --> 00:23:55,596 Speaker 7: they found on Doug's head after the accident. So they said, 343 00:23:56,296 --> 00:24:00,426 Speaker 7: but it's really been called junk science by so many people. And, uh, 344 00:24:01,646 --> 00:24:05,446 Speaker 7: but what it did to the jury was because there 345 00:24:05,466 --> 00:24:08,566 Speaker 7: was really no, nothing to counter it. It told him, no, 346 00:24:08,606 --> 00:24:13,016 Speaker 7: that's what happened. The visual was so powerful. And, um, 347 00:24:14,056 --> 00:24:15,456 Speaker 7: That was definitely the turning point. 348 00:24:18,416 --> 00:24:21,576 Speaker 1: Then, the jury actually got to participate in a forensic 349 00:24:21,616 --> 00:24:25,016 Speaker 1: discovery of their own. On one side of the dory, 350 00:24:25,316 --> 00:24:28,386 Speaker 1: there was a small bump in the fiberglass, which Mose 351 00:24:28,466 --> 00:24:31,646 Speaker 1: said corresponded to a little tear shape visible at one 352 00:24:31,806 --> 00:24:35,926 Speaker 1: end of one of the linear bruises. Fred says it 353 00:24:35,966 --> 00:24:36,706 Speaker 1: was ridiculous. 354 00:24:37,906 --> 00:24:41,486 Speaker 5: They ended up having the whole jury parade by and 355 00:24:41,606 --> 00:24:42,326 Speaker 5: touch the bump. 356 00:24:43,346 --> 00:24:47,146 Speaker 1: Then it was Fred's turn to testify. And right before 357 00:24:47,186 --> 00:24:50,976 Speaker 1: he did, he got a piece of very good news. 358 00:25:17,286 --> 00:25:21,286 Speaker 1: Two days before Fred took the stand, he was acquitted 359 00:25:21,606 --> 00:25:26,196 Speaker 1: on special circumstance number three, that he had killed Doug 360 00:25:26,296 --> 00:25:31,216 Speaker 1: for financial gain. Because Doug's sister Kim and his stepsisters, 361 00:25:31,316 --> 00:25:35,316 Speaker 1: Kirsten and Heidi, were the beneficiaries of his policy, the 362 00:25:35,376 --> 00:25:38,056 Speaker 1: court found that Fred could not have killed him for 363 00:25:38,076 --> 00:25:41,756 Speaker 1: the money. As for the policy on Verna, the insurance 364 00:25:41,776 --> 00:25:46,076 Speaker 1: company paid it. It went into the Johnson-Raylor Trust, but 365 00:25:46,136 --> 00:25:50,636 Speaker 1: only after Fred had removed himself as trustee. Bill Fairfield, 366 00:25:50,776 --> 00:25:54,796 Speaker 1: Fred's friend and lawyer, replaced him as trustee. Bill also 367 00:25:54,896 --> 00:25:58,256 Speaker 1: testified in the trial. He wept on the witness stand, 368 00:25:59,086 --> 00:26:02,186 Speaker 1: swearing the insurance had been his idea. 369 00:26:02,206 --> 00:26:03,696 Speaker 12: Fred's testimony began on March 11, 1981. 370 00:26:03,666 --> 00:26:04,506 Speaker 3: He wore a dark blue suit, and he was calm. 371 00:26:12,376 --> 00:26:14,836 Speaker 1: A newspaper report from the time says he only broke 372 00:26:14,876 --> 00:26:18,896 Speaker 1: down when describing his realization that Verna might be dead. 373 00:26:20,116 --> 00:26:22,296 Speaker 1: He says there was never any question whether he would 374 00:26:22,316 --> 00:26:26,416 Speaker 1: take the stand. He had unshakable confidence in his version 375 00:26:26,436 --> 00:26:26,896 Speaker 1: of events. 376 00:26:28,336 --> 00:26:32,256 Speaker 5: I said the only way that they will ever, you know, 377 00:26:32,336 --> 00:26:35,316 Speaker 5: really understand the whole works is if I testify. 378 00:26:36,456 --> 00:26:39,476 Speaker 1: He never doubted that he would be acquitted of murdering 379 00:26:39,676 --> 00:26:40,416 Speaker 1: Verna and Doug. 380 00:26:41,746 --> 00:26:46,176 Speaker 5: Because even though they basically, you know, cheated doing the 381 00:26:46,236 --> 00:26:50,876 Speaker 5: second autopsy and hiding that and all those things, the 382 00:26:50,916 --> 00:26:55,626 Speaker 5: people that we had who testified basically showed that there 383 00:26:55,686 --> 00:26:59,226 Speaker 5: was no foul, there was no harm, there was no murder. 384 00:26:59,246 --> 00:27:02,906 Speaker 5: You know, in all the legalese that there is about 385 00:27:03,226 --> 00:27:06,436 Speaker 5: proof beyond a reasonable doubt into a moral certainty, that's 386 00:27:06,476 --> 00:27:11,916 Speaker 5: basically B.S., You know, you're trying to convince 12 people 387 00:27:11,976 --> 00:27:14,656 Speaker 5: by hook or crook to vote a certain way. 388 00:27:16,216 --> 00:27:19,976 Speaker 1: During his cross-examination of Fred, Stan Roden made sure the 389 00:27:19,996 --> 00:27:22,906 Speaker 1: dory was brought back into the courtroom. It hung in 390 00:27:22,946 --> 00:27:26,186 Speaker 1: front of the jury box, suspended from four ladders, seven 391 00:27:26,226 --> 00:27:29,806 Speaker 1: feet off the ground. Roden drilled down on all the 392 00:27:29,846 --> 00:27:32,806 Speaker 1: things about Fred's story of the drowning that did not 393 00:27:32,886 --> 00:27:37,706 Speaker 1: make sense. How could a Navy-trained scuba diver, a water 394 00:27:37,746 --> 00:27:41,846 Speaker 1: safety instructor, forget all the basic rules? He failed to 395 00:27:41,916 --> 00:27:44,996 Speaker 1: kick off his sneakers and pants. He swam away from 396 00:27:45,026 --> 00:27:49,576 Speaker 1: the dory, the perfect flotation device. Why would he undertake 397 00:27:49,656 --> 00:27:53,896 Speaker 1: the risky and exhausting swim to Bird Rock, supporting two 398 00:27:53,956 --> 00:27:58,036 Speaker 1: drowning victims and a dog? Why was he dealing with 399 00:27:58,056 --> 00:28:01,376 Speaker 1: the dog at all when his wife and stepchild were dying? 400 00:28:02,816 --> 00:28:08,636 Speaker 1: At this point, Rodin introduced new evidence. People's Exhibit 31C. 401 00:28:09,676 --> 00:28:14,046 Speaker 1: A toy bear. He said, Your Honor, at this time, 402 00:28:14,066 --> 00:28:16,806 Speaker 1: I have an animal. It is certainly not a dog, 403 00:28:16,946 --> 00:28:19,346 Speaker 1: but it has movable arms and legs, and this is 404 00:28:19,406 --> 00:28:20,446 Speaker 1: as close as we can come. 405 00:28:21,066 --> 00:28:21,906 Speaker 6: It is a bear. 406 00:28:23,066 --> 00:28:25,716 Speaker 1: Then Rodin asked Detective Ray to put on the float 407 00:28:25,776 --> 00:28:28,816 Speaker 1: coat Fred had been wearing on January 2, 1981, and 408 00:28:29,536 --> 00:28:32,576 Speaker 1: he placed the teddy bear on Detective Ray's shoulders. and 409 00:28:32,626 --> 00:28:35,466 Speaker 1: moved it around as Fred directed from the witness stand. 410 00:28:36,566 --> 00:28:40,306 Speaker 1: It must have looked absurd. And that was exactly Stan 411 00:28:40,346 --> 00:28:44,086 Speaker 1: Roden's point. He didn't think Fred had swum with Lady 412 00:28:44,126 --> 00:28:47,206 Speaker 1: the dog on his back. He didn't think Lady had 413 00:28:47,306 --> 00:28:50,506 Speaker 1: climbed the sheer cliff on the north side of Bird Rock. 414 00:28:51,286 --> 00:28:53,456 Speaker 1: He didn't even think Lady was still in the boat 415 00:28:53,496 --> 00:28:57,156 Speaker 1: when it flipped. He thought Fred had dumped her on 416 00:28:57,196 --> 00:28:59,826 Speaker 1: the eastern end of Bird Rock, where there's a nice 417 00:28:59,906 --> 00:29:04,446 Speaker 1: gentle ledge which she could have easily climbed up. Saving 418 00:29:04,486 --> 00:29:07,426 Speaker 1: the dog was just one more aspect of his bogus 419 00:29:07,466 --> 00:29:11,376 Speaker 1: hero story. Call it a vanity or a distraction, it 420 00:29:11,396 --> 00:29:14,416 Speaker 1: was a fib. And Rodin was sure it was a 421 00:29:14,596 --> 00:29:18,256 Speaker 1: flaw in the lie Fred had been telling on autopilot 422 00:29:18,756 --> 00:29:24,676 Speaker 1: since the day his wife and stepson died. Fred sat 423 00:29:24,716 --> 00:29:27,836 Speaker 1: through the trial, you could say stoically, or you could 424 00:29:27,856 --> 00:29:30,566 Speaker 1: say sullenly, Here's Wendy Lasher. 425 00:29:30,586 --> 00:29:32,306 Speaker 5: The judge. 426 00:29:39,456 --> 00:29:42,516 Speaker 6: You know, dark hair, heavy eyebrows. And I think they 427 00:29:42,576 --> 00:29:46,936 Speaker 6: really wanted to cultivate a dislike of him during the trial. 428 00:29:48,666 --> 00:29:52,106 Speaker 1: The judge instructed the jury in the distinction between direct 429 00:29:52,406 --> 00:29:55,586 Speaker 1: and circumstantial evidence and told them that there had been 430 00:29:55,686 --> 00:29:58,666 Speaker 1: no direct evidence of any act of the defendants that 431 00:29:58,726 --> 00:30:02,246 Speaker 1: caused Verna and Doug to drown. They were also told 432 00:30:02,306 --> 00:30:07,516 Speaker 1: that when considering circumstantial evidence, if there were two reasonable interpretations, 433 00:30:08,086 --> 00:30:11,266 Speaker 1: they had to give the defendant the benefit of the doubt. 434 00:30:13,476 --> 00:30:18,176 Speaker 1: The jury deliberated for five days. This is Fred's friend, 435 00:30:18,316 --> 00:30:18,936 Speaker 1: Mike Killeen. 436 00:30:19,756 --> 00:30:22,136 Speaker 7: When the jury went away to make their decision, they, 437 00:30:22,276 --> 00:30:26,396 Speaker 7: I think on day two, they asked for information about 438 00:30:26,436 --> 00:30:29,246 Speaker 7: the Dory. They wanted to see the Dory again. That 439 00:30:29,306 --> 00:30:32,686 Speaker 7: Dory made all the difference. Regardless of how they felt 440 00:30:32,726 --> 00:30:37,186 Speaker 7: about Fred, that demonstration with the Dory and the dummy, uh, 441 00:30:38,206 --> 00:30:38,986 Speaker 7: told him a story. 442 00:30:40,066 --> 00:30:42,486 Speaker 1: Fred says he didn't see the verdict coming. 443 00:30:43,606 --> 00:30:47,946 Speaker 5: I was literally stunned when the clerk of the court 444 00:30:48,066 --> 00:30:50,906 Speaker 5: read the verdict. She had tears in her eyes when 445 00:30:50,926 --> 00:30:54,146 Speaker 5: she read the verdict because I'm pretty sure she didn't 446 00:30:54,186 --> 00:30:56,706 Speaker 5: think there was going to be a guilty verdict either. 447 00:30:58,046 --> 00:31:02,536 Speaker 1: Fred was found guilty of two counts of first-degree premeditated 448 00:31:02,856 --> 00:31:07,236 Speaker 1: murder and special circumstances one and two. More than one 449 00:31:07,276 --> 00:31:12,036 Speaker 1: victim was and killing Verna for financial gain. According to 450 00:31:12,076 --> 00:31:16,136 Speaker 1: a newspaper report, Fred's mother gasped when she heard the verdict. 451 00:31:17,056 --> 00:31:20,616 Speaker 1: And as the spectators were leaving the courtroom, she hissed, 452 00:31:21,736 --> 00:31:43,166 Speaker 1: Gossip kills. Fred's defense team thought it was the testimony 453 00:31:43,266 --> 00:31:48,236 Speaker 1: of Dwayne Mose, the criminalist that tipped the scales. Appealing 454 00:31:48,266 --> 00:31:51,476 Speaker 1: the trial verdict in 1985, they'd even managed to get 455 00:31:51,536 --> 00:31:55,116 Speaker 1: all three appellate judges to agree that Mose's evidence did 456 00:31:55,196 --> 00:31:59,716 Speaker 1: not follow reliable scientific procedure and should not have been admitted. 457 00:32:01,276 --> 00:32:03,596 Speaker 1: But Mose says, much as he would like to take 458 00:32:03,656 --> 00:32:06,516 Speaker 1: credit for Fred's conviction, he really can't. 459 00:32:07,786 --> 00:32:13,466 Speaker 10: Several months after the trial was over, Rayler had been sentenced. 460 00:32:14,366 --> 00:32:16,646 Speaker 10: I bumped into one of the members of the jury. 461 00:32:17,566 --> 00:32:21,396 Speaker 10: And we chatted a little bit about the case. I 462 00:32:21,436 --> 00:32:23,936 Speaker 10: wanted some feedback, so I asked him what he thought 463 00:32:23,976 --> 00:32:27,216 Speaker 10: of my testimony. And he smiled and he said, Oh, 464 00:32:27,956 --> 00:32:33,166 Speaker 10: we didn't give that any thought. And he said, The 465 00:32:33,206 --> 00:32:36,186 Speaker 10: guy was lying. It was obvious to us. And we 466 00:32:36,226 --> 00:32:37,806 Speaker 10: convicted him because he was a liar. 467 00:32:59,166 --> 00:33:02,936 Speaker 1: In the penalty phase, Verna's daughter Kim testified on Fred's behalf. 468 00:33:03,616 --> 00:33:08,016 Speaker 1: So did Fred's daughters Heidi and Kirsten. Fred's defense attorney 469 00:33:08,136 --> 00:33:10,376 Speaker 1: asked them to conjure up happy memories to tell the 470 00:33:10,416 --> 00:33:12,896 Speaker 1: jury in the hope that it would help spare their 471 00:33:12,916 --> 00:33:17,986 Speaker 1: father's life. In the hayloft in Colorado, Kim found a 472 00:33:18,016 --> 00:33:20,286 Speaker 1: letter she'd written on the day she took the stand. 473 00:33:21,486 --> 00:33:23,766 Speaker 1: She was 12. 474 00:33:24,046 --> 00:33:25,046 Speaker 3: July 7th. 475 00:33:25,246 --> 00:33:28,646 Speaker 12: Dearest Dad, today has been a long, hard day. We 476 00:33:28,686 --> 00:33:31,086 Speaker 12: had fun at the hotel. Dad, I am sorry if 477 00:33:31,166 --> 00:33:33,586 Speaker 12: I made it sort of hard for you today. I 478 00:33:33,826 --> 00:33:36,626 Speaker 12: love you so very, very, very, very, very much, and 479 00:33:36,666 --> 00:33:37,126 Speaker 12: I miss you. 480 00:33:37,166 --> 00:33:37,646 Speaker 7: Love, Kim. 481 00:33:38,846 --> 00:33:40,976 Speaker 12: And I wonder then if the only time that we 482 00:33:41,006 --> 00:33:47,036 Speaker 12: were in court was for penalty phase and to tell 483 00:33:47,116 --> 00:33:52,276 Speaker 12: our little special story or memory. Mine I talked about. 484 00:33:53,916 --> 00:33:54,316 Speaker 7: I had a. 485 00:33:54,336 --> 00:33:59,176 Speaker 12: White bunny named Snowball. And my dad had made a 486 00:33:59,656 --> 00:34:02,896 Speaker 12: harness for my rabbit so I could take it for 487 00:34:02,916 --> 00:34:05,736 Speaker 12: a walk in the backyard. So she'd be on a leash. 488 00:34:07,386 --> 00:34:10,426 Speaker 1: Kirsten, who had just turned eight, told a story about 489 00:34:10,546 --> 00:34:13,066 Speaker 1: Fred and Verna making out at the register at a 490 00:34:13,086 --> 00:34:17,246 Speaker 1: Bob's Big Boy. Heidi was 11, and she doesn't remember 491 00:34:17,386 --> 00:34:18,026 Speaker 1: what she said. 492 00:34:19,296 --> 00:34:25,596 Speaker 2: I was so scared and, like, so dizzy. It was just... 493 00:34:26,026 --> 00:34:28,226 Speaker 2: One of the scariest things ever, sitting in this big 494 00:34:28,286 --> 00:34:31,246 Speaker 2: box with all these people staring at you. And the 495 00:34:31,306 --> 00:34:33,326 Speaker 2: weight of the world on your shoulders, because I didn't 496 00:34:33,366 --> 00:34:35,066 Speaker 2: know it was the penalty phase. I thought if I 497 00:34:35,086 --> 00:34:39,756 Speaker 2: just said the right thing, he is coming home. And 498 00:34:40,106 --> 00:34:40,976 Speaker 2: we didn't find out. 499 00:34:40,996 --> 00:34:42,016 Speaker 12: It was years later. 500 00:34:42,036 --> 00:34:45,996 Speaker 2: You know, of course that would have been devastating if 501 00:34:46,436 --> 00:34:49,616 Speaker 2: you found out that it was the penalty phase. But 502 00:34:50,336 --> 00:34:52,376 Speaker 2: I just was so nervous and worried that I would 503 00:34:52,396 --> 00:34:53,496 Speaker 2: say the wrong thing and then he. 504 00:34:53,476 --> 00:34:54,236 Speaker 8: Couldn't come home. 505 00:34:56,396 --> 00:34:58,706 Speaker 3: Here's one for me. No date. Dear Dad, I miss 506 00:34:58,726 --> 00:35:00,846 Speaker 3: you very much. I'm tired, but I do not want 507 00:35:00,886 --> 00:35:03,026 Speaker 3: to go to bed. Do you have to stay for 508 00:35:03,046 --> 00:35:07,106 Speaker 3: your life? I miss you very, very much. I know 509 00:35:07,146 --> 00:35:19,196 Speaker 3: that you won't like to stay there. Love, Kirsten. And 510 00:35:19,236 --> 00:35:22,836 Speaker 3: then here's another one. Dear Fred, and then Dad in parentheses, 511 00:35:23,596 --> 00:35:25,636 Speaker 3: I was crying when I heard the news. I miss 512 00:35:25,696 --> 00:35:28,856 Speaker 3: you So very much, and I hope you come home soon. 513 00:35:29,196 --> 00:35:33,236 Speaker 3: Will you write us back? If you can. We made 514 00:35:33,336 --> 00:35:36,496 Speaker 3: chocolate chip cookies with Ann Elizabeth. See you soon, I hope. 515 00:35:36,876 --> 00:35:38,796 Speaker 3: I am the youngest, but I love you just as 516 00:35:38,856 --> 00:35:50,506 Speaker 3: much as the big kids. I need to go, even 517 00:35:50,546 --> 00:35:51,306 Speaker 3: though I hate to. 518 00:35:51,606 --> 00:35:52,206 Speaker 7: Love, Kirsten. 519 00:35:52,956 --> 00:35:55,076 Speaker 3: I think you are the most wonderful dad in the world. 520 00:35:55,276 --> 00:35:58,296 Speaker 3: I love you right back. I miss you. Come home soon. 521 00:36:03,136 --> 00:36:06,216 Speaker 1: On the day Fred was arrested, April 3rd, 1981, he 522 00:36:06,936 --> 00:36:10,516 Speaker 1: left Malibu forever. But he wasn't the only one. 523 00:36:12,866 --> 00:36:15,306 Speaker 3: I mean, we didn't get to say goodbye to our 524 00:36:15,366 --> 00:36:18,906 Speaker 3: friends or teachers or anything. I mean, we were kids, 525 00:36:18,966 --> 00:36:20,706 Speaker 3: so the way that they explained it to us was, 526 00:36:21,326 --> 00:36:24,936 Speaker 3: There's been a huge, like, misunderstanding and that we're going to, 527 00:36:25,146 --> 00:36:28,076 Speaker 3: you know, we're hiring these really smart people and they're 528 00:36:28,096 --> 00:36:30,516 Speaker 3: going to help and we're going to, like, sort it out. 529 00:36:30,976 --> 00:36:33,016 Speaker 3: But that's what we just kept being told, that it 530 00:36:33,056 --> 00:36:36,676 Speaker 3: was a misunderstanding. And when our uncle picked us up, 531 00:36:37,436 --> 00:36:39,856 Speaker 3: we never went back to Malibu. 532 00:36:41,456 --> 00:36:45,166 Speaker 1: The girls started new lives and didn't tell their new 533 00:36:45,236 --> 00:36:49,026 Speaker 1: friends the story of Verna and Doug or that Fred 534 00:36:49,046 --> 00:36:52,496 Speaker 1: was in prison for killing them. but they kept a 535 00:36:52,556 --> 00:36:55,356 Speaker 1: secret vigil. Here's Kirsten. 536 00:36:56,536 --> 00:36:58,996 Speaker 3: We weren't told, like, okay, this is your life now. Like, 537 00:36:59,556 --> 00:37:01,396 Speaker 3: this is how it is and we're going forward. Like, 538 00:37:01,496 --> 00:37:05,816 Speaker 3: it was always this, you know, we're going to straighten 539 00:37:05,836 --> 00:37:07,956 Speaker 3: this out. We're going to bring him home. I mean, 540 00:37:08,146 --> 00:37:12,926 Speaker 3: even after the conviction and the appeals, I mean, I 541 00:37:13,406 --> 00:37:15,346 Speaker 3: have memories of being at school. I'm like, I might 542 00:37:15,386 --> 00:37:17,766 Speaker 3: go home today and my dad might be there. And 543 00:37:17,806 --> 00:37:20,766 Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know which appeal it was, but 544 00:37:22,226 --> 00:37:25,026 Speaker 3: One time, Heidi, Stephen, and I, Stephen is our cousin 545 00:37:25,046 --> 00:37:29,766 Speaker 3: that we grew up with, made confetti with a single 546 00:37:29,866 --> 00:37:33,966 Speaker 3: hole punch, like punched paper, made all this confetti, and 547 00:37:33,986 --> 00:37:39,406 Speaker 3: then literally practiced throwing it. Picking it all up and 548 00:37:39,966 --> 00:37:40,586 Speaker 3: doing the like. 549 00:37:40,746 --> 00:37:41,886 Speaker 1: Welcome home. 550 00:37:41,946 --> 00:37:44,336 Speaker 3: And then we would throw it on somebody walking through 551 00:37:44,356 --> 00:37:47,036 Speaker 3: the door. And then we would pick all these tiny 552 00:37:47,076 --> 00:37:49,076 Speaker 3: pieces of confetti up, put it back in the bag. 553 00:37:49,116 --> 00:37:53,096 Speaker 3: And then somebody else's turn, like literally practicing his homecoming. 554 00:37:53,116 --> 00:37:57,426 Speaker 2: We were so excited. And we use that analogy today. 555 00:37:57,526 --> 00:38:01,326 Speaker 2: My husband will say like, if something, like we're hoping 556 00:38:01,386 --> 00:38:03,506 Speaker 2: for something, he's like, well, let's not make this a 557 00:38:03,686 --> 00:38:04,766 Speaker 2: confetti incident. 558 00:38:05,366 --> 00:38:08,376 Speaker 4: And it's true because we Like she said, we were 559 00:38:08,506 --> 00:38:11,346 Speaker 4: so excited. And I was thinking, oh, my God, today's 560 00:38:11,406 --> 00:38:14,366 Speaker 4: the day. I'm going to go home with my dad 561 00:38:14,406 --> 00:38:17,426 Speaker 4: and my sisters and, you know, get our dog back 562 00:38:17,486 --> 00:38:21,066 Speaker 4: from Annie Julie and just be back together. And it 563 00:38:21,106 --> 00:38:25,826 Speaker 4: was just disappointment after disappointment. And, I mean, I know 564 00:38:25,866 --> 00:38:28,666 Speaker 4: Kirsten is like this. 565 00:38:30,106 --> 00:38:32,266 Speaker 1: The sisters were waiting for their dad to come back 566 00:38:32,586 --> 00:38:36,586 Speaker 1: and make everything okay again. And they're still waiting today. 567 00:38:38,146 --> 00:38:44,216 Speaker 1: for what they believe is justice, Fred's release. But there's 568 00:38:44,236 --> 00:38:46,996 Speaker 1: someone else in this story who's waiting for justice, too, 569 00:38:47,816 --> 00:38:54,636 Speaker 1: and that person is Heidi and Kirsten's mother, Fred's first wife, Jean. 570 00:39:00,976 --> 00:39:04,376 Speaker 1: Coming up on the season finale of Lost Hills, a 571 00:39:04,416 --> 00:39:06,176 Speaker 1: detective visits Bird Rock. 572 00:39:07,416 --> 00:39:08,816 Speaker 12: I'm looking at that and I see all the rocks. 573 00:39:08,836 --> 00:39:09,936 Speaker 12: I'm like, those are all tombstones. 574 00:39:10,056 --> 00:39:10,736 Speaker 10: That's all death. 575 00:39:11,596 --> 00:39:12,276 Speaker 1: That's how I look at it. 576 00:39:12,566 --> 00:39:16,066 Speaker 3: Like, I just, it's just a weird, I have a 577 00:39:16,186 --> 00:39:16,826 Speaker 3: creepy feeling. 578 00:39:17,866 --> 00:39:19,546 Speaker 12: This whole place is not what I thought it would be. 579 00:39:20,706 --> 00:39:27,646 Speaker 1: That's next in Episode 10, Lifelines. Lost Hills is written 580 00:39:27,726 --> 00:39:31,026 Speaker 1: and reported by me, Dana Goodyear. It's created by me 581 00:39:31,166 --> 00:39:34,756 Speaker 1: and Ben Adair and produced by Western Sound and Pushkin Industries. 582 00:39:35,956 --> 00:39:37,986 Speaker 1: Subscribe to Pushkin Plus and you can hear the whole 583 00:39:38,046 --> 00:39:41,376 Speaker 1: season ad-free. and get early access to the final two episodes. 584 00:39:42,276 --> 00:39:44,656 Speaker 1: Find Pushkin Plus on the Lost Hills show page in 585 00:39:44,776 --> 00:39:46,396 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or at pushkin.fm.