1 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 1: Happy Saturday, everybody. Uh. Not too long ago, as this 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: pandemic began, we dropped a playlist of offbeat history episodes 3 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: into our fee just as a lot of folks in 4 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: the US as well as other places, we're really starting 5 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:17,639 Speaker 1: to face the possibility of being isolated at home for 6 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: a while. And after we did that, a couple of 7 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: people noted that it seemed odd that such a playlist 8 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:24,959 Speaker 1: did not include one of our most offbeat episodes, and 9 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: one that I know is one of Tracy's very favorite, 10 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: Butter versus Margarine. It is, And the real reason that 11 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: that wasn't on there is that when I pulled that 12 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: list together, we were trying to stick to episodes that 13 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: were more than a year old and that had not 14 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 1: been re released as a classic in at least a year. 15 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,160 Speaker 1: And I could have sworn we had done Butter versus 16 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 1: Marjarine recently. Uh maybe I was really thinking of Peanut Butter. 17 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 1: I don't know. It was kind of a weird week 18 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: and we were all just trying to get through it, 19 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: so by popular requests, I too thought we had run 20 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 1: it more recently. Here's Butter Versus March Rain, which originally 21 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 1: came out on August one, Welcome to Stuff You Missed 22 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: in History Class, a production of My Heart Radio. Hello, 23 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:23,319 Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy B. Wilson, and 24 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: I'm Holly Frying. This time last year, my apartment was hot. 25 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: I like, how while we have recorded today, because we'd 26 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: record an other thing, many things at once, the heat 27 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: has come up many times. It has been a long 28 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 1: stretch of and above, which sounds like Heaven to me. 29 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:42,959 Speaker 1: But I know I'm a weirdo. We don't have air conditioning. UH, 30 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: So it was hot. I was looking at a very, 31 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: very dark and heavy short list of podcast topics to cover. Uh. 32 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: And when this happened last year, the result of my 33 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 1: quest to find something that was cool and pleasant to 34 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: talk about was good humor versus pops popsicle. Uh. The 35 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 1: exact same thing is happening as we speak right now, 36 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: and it has brought us to today's topic of butter 37 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 1: versus Margarine. So unlike the popsicle episode, which involved this 38 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: handful of businesses and their ongoing legal battles about who 39 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: could get to make which frozen treats, this one is 40 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 1: about whole industries and entire governments and just a really 41 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 1: weird preoccupation with protecting people from the nefarious horrors of 42 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 1: margarine way before people were making it with the hydrogenated 43 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: oils that led to its like more unhealthy reputation in 44 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: more recent years. There's even bootlegging involved in this whole story, 45 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 1: So big props to our colleagues at house Stuff Works 46 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 1: now for the Ridiculous History series, which is a series 47 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:42,239 Speaker 1: of articles about weird things in history, and it's home 48 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: to the article that inspired today's show, which is delightfully 49 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: entitled Land of Fakes Margarine bootlegging in Canada. And as 50 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: was the case when we talked about the history of cheese, 51 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 1: most of the stories about where butter came from our 52 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: probably apocryphal. All of the English words for butter trace 53 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 1: back to Latin, with the Greek origins purportedly stemming from 54 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:08,119 Speaker 1: the words for ox or cow and cheese, although there's 55 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 1: some debate about all that. So grain of salted uh. 56 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 1: There are various tales about nomadic people's whether they were 57 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 1: European or Western Asian, traveling with pack animals possibly camels, 58 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: and the milk slashing around in skins turning into butter. 59 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 1: Similar stories go with the cheese Yale milk in a 60 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: skin and it came out as cheese because Rennet like, 61 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: that's the cheese origin story. Uh. This story, for better 62 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 1: makes logical sense because butter is made when milk or 63 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: cream are agitated in some way, usually by being shaken up, 64 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: returned until the fat coagulates and then these fatty solid 65 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: bits can be pressed into delicious butter and butter milk 66 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 1: is was left behind, and a number of early cultures 67 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 1: did store liquids in skins and also simultaneously traveled with 68 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: them on pack animals, so it's possible that's what happened 69 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: all the same, though it's just about impossible now to 70 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: determine the exact birthplace and time of butter because it 71 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 1: all melted, not all of it, not all of it 72 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: because this next bit, or if they were traveling with 73 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 1: me because I ate it. Thanks to written records in archaeology, 74 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: we do know that butter has existed for at least 75 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:21,720 Speaker 1: five thousand years, and we do have some actual samples, 76 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:25,359 Speaker 1: so my smart alocky comment does not apply. We have 77 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: actual samples of incredibly old butter thanks to Ireland's Pete Bogs. 78 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 1: As early as three thousand BC, people living around those 79 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: bogs buried butter, often in a wooden vessel, but sometimes 80 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:39,600 Speaker 1: in a skin or a croc or some other container 81 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 1: in the bog. We're not sure this was a if, 82 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:46,840 Speaker 1: this was a preservation technique or an offering or some 83 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 1: completely other purpose. But thousands of years later, people are 84 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:53,839 Speaker 1: still stumbling onto these long buried deposits of butter, and 85 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 1: some of which are really tallow or something else that's 86 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: fatty and waxy. Some of it's basically better there it 87 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:03,280 Speaker 1: usually smells really rancid. So don't fancy don't don't eat 88 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: bog butter, Margarine, that's the shirt I want. Don't eat 89 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 1: bog butter. Okay, He's kind of like, don't eat the 90 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: yellow snow, don't eat the bog butter. Just life lessons. Yeah, 91 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:17,119 Speaker 1: so margarine, on the other hand, much easier pedigree to trace. 92 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 1: At the eighteen sixty six World's Fair, Emperor Louis Napoleon 93 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: the Third, who was nephew to Napoleon Bonaparte, announced that 94 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: he wanted a substitute for butter that could benefit poor 95 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:30,799 Speaker 1: people and the French military. So the price of butter 96 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 1: had almost doubled in the two decades leading up to 97 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,360 Speaker 1: this announcement, it was just way too expensive for a 98 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:39,039 Speaker 1: lot of people in France to afford. And it was way, 99 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 1: way way too expensive to just serve it up to 100 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: France's armed forces. Cost way too much money. The French 101 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: War Office offered a cash prize to the person who 102 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 1: could solve this problem. The idea wasn't just to make 103 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: something that might taste good enough to tempt people to 104 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 1: spread it on their bread instead of butter. It needed 105 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,279 Speaker 1: to work as a substitute for butter and cook king 106 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: and ideally it needed to be less perishable than butter, 107 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: which turns rancid pretty quickly when it's not kept cold, 108 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 1: and it needed to have some dietary value in the 109 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 1: form of fat and calories. French chemist Epolite mes Mourrier 110 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: took the prize in eighteen sixty nine with a spread 111 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: herble emulsion of beef, tallow and water turned together with 112 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 1: a little bit of milk for flavor, and it met 113 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,679 Speaker 1: all the right criteria. Was a dietary source of fat 114 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,479 Speaker 1: and calories that had a sort of buttery taste, and 115 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 1: it was cheap. It costs as little as half the 116 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:35,479 Speaker 1: price of butter. He called it oleo margarine, probably more 117 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:38,839 Speaker 1: like oleo margarine in French with my terrible French accent. 118 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:42,039 Speaker 1: This came from the Latin oleum for beef fat and 119 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 1: the Greek the Greek margarite for pearl. There are also 120 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:48,839 Speaker 1: some sources that say that this came from margaric acid, 121 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: which was at the time believed to be a fatty 122 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 1: acid head that was heavily present and milk. But all 123 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 1: of the chemistry involving that at the time was just wrong. 124 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:03,280 Speaker 1: My mother, who was very good cook, her mother was French, 125 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 1: and you know, even well into the nine nineties, my 126 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: mom would call margarine olio. Yeah, olio was what it 127 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 1: was called in a lot of places. Mesh Mourier patented 128 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 1: his invention and eventually sold his patent to Dutch buttermaking 129 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: company Urgans Jurgen's would eventually go on to become part 130 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: of Unilever, which, by total coincidence, now also owns the 131 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: popsicle brand. Because everything is connected in some weird full circle. 132 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: Mesh Mourier was granted a U S patent in eighteen 133 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: seventy three, which he sold to the US Dairy Company. 134 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: He was granted patents in a few other nations as well. 135 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: All these patents make it sound like he became successful 136 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 1: off of this invention. He really didn't make a lot 137 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: of money off of it, though. Margin didn't really take 138 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 1: off in Europe. France, of course, is famous for its 139 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: very buttery cooking, and French chefs and citizens were just 140 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: not too excited about swamping butter for a spread invented 141 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: by a chemist which people thought of as artificial. Also 142 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 1: didn't catch on quickly in other European nations either, and 143 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,240 Speaker 1: most of the laws that were passed relating to it 144 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: in Europe were just devoted to trying to prevent people 145 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: from fraudulently selling margarine labeled as butter. By eighteen eighty seven, Germany, 146 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: for example, had enacted a margarine law mandating very clear 147 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 1: label labeling and separate displays for margarine and butter in 148 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: shops right on. Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and the United 149 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: States all took steps to regulate margarine. So marjarine story 150 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 1: in Canada is pretty straightforward. Canada had a total marjarine 151 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 1: prohibition from eighteen eighty six until nineteen forty nine, with 152 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: one brief window from nineteen seventeen until ninety two because 153 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 1: of dairy and butter shortages during World War One. That 154 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 1: brief window did not reopen during World Were two, though, 155 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:03,479 Speaker 1: because at that point the government dealt with these shortages 156 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: through rationing rather than by temporarily allowing people to buy 157 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: artificial butter. The reason for Canada's prohibition was that was 158 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:14,319 Speaker 1: that marjarine was viewed as an injurious product that people 159 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: needed to be protected from. However, for decades after marjarine's invention, 160 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: Newfoundland wasn't yet part of Canada, and in Newfoundland things 161 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:27,320 Speaker 1: were quite different. The climate there didn't make cattle farming 162 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 1: easy at all. You would basically have to keep your 163 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 1: cows inside for much of the year, and consequently most 164 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: dairy products, including butter, had to be imported. I'm just 165 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 1: going to make a little side note that every time 166 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 1: we say Newfoundland on the podcast, we get a different 167 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 1: video with a different correct pronunciation. So I'm just putting 168 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: that out there. If you were about to type us 169 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 1: an email, just save your time. Right. So, Newfoundland welcomed margarine, 170 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: and since it was so much easier to make margarine 171 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: there than to raise cows, it developed its own margarine industry. 172 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 1: Marjarine was also an important part of the diets of 173 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 1: many Newfoundlanders, and thanks to its calorie calorie and fat 174 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 1: content enriched marjarine even became part of a specific government 175 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:16,319 Speaker 1: effort to combat malnutrition. People from Canada who wanted marjarine 176 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: during this whole Canadian prohibition would smuggle it in, either 177 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: from Newfoundland or from the United States. All that together 178 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 1: means that during the Union between Newfoundland and Canada in 179 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 1: ninety nine, marjarine became a problem. Canada's laws did not 180 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 1: allow a product to be legal in one province and 181 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:40,199 Speaker 1: illegal in others. So even if Newfoundland had just started 182 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: importing butter from the other provinces, it would be way 183 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 1: more expensive than marjarine. Plus, nobody really wanted to destroy 184 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: Newfoundland's existing marjarine industry, so the nineteen forty nine British 185 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: North America Acts spelled out that Newfoundland could keep making 186 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 1: margarine like this is This is really basically the Act 187 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: of union between these nations to become one nation had 188 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:05,959 Speaker 1: a part in it about about margarine. Eventually, the Supreme 189 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: Court of Canada ruled that margarine was no longer an 190 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:12,599 Speaker 1: injurious product product and left regulation up to the provinces, 191 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: which individually repealed their margarine bands and more gradually repealed 192 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 1: laws that specified that the margarine had to be a 193 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: specific color. The last of those was actually repealed in 194 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 1: Quebec in two thousand and eight. Very recently. We're going 195 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: to talk more about colors of margarine a little later. 196 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 1: Pink and purple. Uh No, the United but it is 197 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: all the colors, uh that might make it more appealing 198 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 1: to some people. The United States did not have a 199 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: flat out nationwide margarine prohibition, but it did have an 200 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 1: ongoing feud between the butter and margarine industries, and that 201 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 1: feud went on for almost a century. The first margarine 202 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 1: factory in the United States was opened by the US 203 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: Dairy Company in eighteen seventy four. That was the year 204 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 1: after it bought meg muris s patent, and within ten 205 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 1: years there were almost forty different American companies making margarine. 206 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 1: The dairy industry, unsurprisingly was not happy about this at all. 207 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 1: The dairy industry was afraid that number one, people were 208 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:16,199 Speaker 1: going to switch to marjarine across the board, and number 209 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: two that poor people switching to marjarine would put the 210 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 1: smaller butter makers that made like a lower grade, less 211 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 1: expensive butter out of business. Number three in the dairy 212 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 1: industries list of fears was that people were going to 213 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: fraudulently sell margarine labeled as butter, as had been a 214 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 1: concern in Europe. Correct, and that last fear was absolutely justified. 215 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 1: Manufacturers were making and selling marjarine in large quantities, which 216 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:46,679 Speaker 1: unscrupulous people were divvying up and repackaging and selling as butter. 217 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 1: Just one of many many examples which was described in 218 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 1: an eighteen seventy seven New York Times article quote. Christopher Strauss, 219 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 1: Grosser of number sixteen Second Avenue, was arraigned before Justice 220 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: Murray in the fifty seven eat Police Court yesterday, charged 221 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 1: with selling Oleo margarine, representing it to be pure butter. 222 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:09,680 Speaker 1: Say Churchill, a former manufacturer of the artificial article and 223 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:12,439 Speaker 1: who is now employed as a detective by the Butter 224 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 1: and Cheese Exchange, appeared as complainant. I just want to 225 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 1: highlight the fact that there was a butter and cheese 226 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:21,079 Speaker 1: exchange that had a detective. I feel like there is 227 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 1: a wonderful historical fiction novel to be had there. Yep. 228 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:28,479 Speaker 1: So this threat of fraud also applied to American exports 229 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: of butter, which was caused for concern in the butter 230 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 1: industry to American butter exports and quote spurious compounds resembling butter, 231 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 1: we're discussed in the British House of Commons on April one, 232 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:44,200 Speaker 1: eight one. One inspector was cited as saying forty out 233 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: of every one hundred casks of butter he inspected did 234 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: not contain butter. The superintendent of Manchester and Salford Markets 235 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 1: was quoted as saying, quote, I see used thirteen tubs 236 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:58,440 Speaker 1: of butter at a wholesaler confectioner's bakery. That was the 237 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: most filthy stuff a man noble, stunk fearfully and was 238 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 1: of many colors. It's likely that a lot of these 239 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 1: claims of quote spurious compounds were inflated or really were 240 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 1: butter that had just gone rancid in transit. Even so, 241 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: butter fraud really was a very real problem. However, a 242 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 1: lot of the dairy industries other complaints about margarine and 243 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 1: claims that they made to try to discourage people from 244 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: eating margarine were to be very candid, extremely hypocritical. Margin 245 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: margarine was decried as inferior, made of poor quality ingredients 246 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: and likely to be contaminated. Since some of margarine's ingredients 247 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: were byproducts of animal slaughter, the butter industry claimed it 248 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: was made of things that were really garbage and not 249 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 1: meant for human consumption. Uh. Margin was kind of described 250 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: the way we would describe hot dogs todays, being like 251 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 1: made of scrapings. There were comparisons to margarine being no 252 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 1: better than melting the burned out stub of your candle 253 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: in than eating that. Meanwhile, marjorine manufacturers were inviting inspectors 254 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: and legislators and consumers to just come tour their factories 255 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: any time unannounced, to see that they were indeed clean 256 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 1: and that their ingredients were wholesome. However, at this time, 257 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 1: the butter industry was just on the cusp of becoming 258 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: more standardized. For its whole history, butter had mostly come 259 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 1: not from dedicated dairy farms, but from small farms with 260 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: one or two cows whose milk was made into butter seasonally. 261 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 1: There was really no consistency and how good this butter 262 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: was or how high it's quality was. It kind of 263 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 1: depended entirely on how healthy the cow was and how 264 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 1: well it was cared for. As well as on the skill, 265 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: attention to cleanliness, and promptness of the person making it. 266 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 1: In other words, sure, a dirty factory could crank out 267 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 1: adulterated margarine, but a dirty farm kitchen could crank out 268 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 1: adulterated butter just as easily. The dairy industry also put 269 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: out a massive campaign portraying marjarine as an inferior artificial 270 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 1: product made in a factory. The fact that it was 271 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 1: from a factory, man made, and something made it somehow 272 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 1: automatically bad. And this came up again and again. In 273 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 1: eighteen seventy seven, Minnesota Governor Lucius Hubbard spelled it out 274 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 1: this way, quote, the public has been victim of various 275 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 1: impositions practiced in different departments of its industry. But I 276 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 1: think it will be admitted that the ingenuity of depraved 277 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: human genius has culminated in the production of oleomargarine and 278 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: it's kindred abominations. But at the same time, the centrifugal 279 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: cream separator was introduced in eighteen seventy eight, just four 280 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 1: years after the first marjarine factory was open, and this 281 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: was a device that could automatically remove the cream from 282 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 1: milk and from there it could be made into butter. 283 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: The centrifugal cream separator was really only cost effective in 284 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: an industrial setting using large batches of milk. So just 285 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 1: as the marjarine industry was really becoming established in the 286 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: United States, the dairy industry is also on this anti 287 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: factory campaign while simultaneously moving from small batch farm butter 288 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 1: to large batch creamery butter, which was made in a factory. 289 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: Factories were evil. Let's build some uh. And the last 290 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:21,640 Speaker 1: big hypocrisy in the dairy industry's campaign against margarine was coloring. 291 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: Margarine made from nineteenth century methods was white and it 292 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 1: looked kind of like lard. Most manufacturers colored at yellow, 293 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: both to look more appetizing and two more resembled butter, 294 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:35,680 Speaker 1: since margarine was basically being touted as a butter substitute. 295 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 1: The dairy industry, on the other hand, insisted that margine 296 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 1: that the margarine industry's practice of coloring the product yellow 297 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:47,120 Speaker 1: was bad, both deceptive, and unwholesome. So the dairy industry 298 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 1: lobbied for laws against yellow margarine. But there's the thing. 299 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,880 Speaker 1: When cows eat grass, butter that's made from the milk 300 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 1: they produced tends to be very yellow. Because of all 301 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 1: the caroteen in what the cows were eating. But if 302 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 1: the cows are fed corn or other feed that doesn't 303 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 1: have that much caroteen, the butter made from their milk 304 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: is much much paler. So the dairy industry was already 305 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 1: coloring butter yellow when it demanded that the margarine industry 306 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 1: stopped doing that. And their argument was that the dairy 307 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: industry's own use of yellow coloring was simply a minor tweak, 308 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 1: while the margarine industries used to the same color was 309 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 1: an outright deception. All of these efforts on the part 310 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:31,959 Speaker 1: of the dairy industry led to a ton of laws 311 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:36,199 Speaker 1: and just ridiculous number of Supreme Court cases, which we 312 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:46,680 Speaker 1: will talk about after another sponsor break. So to get 313 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: back to the story of margarine, and we're now going 314 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 1: to get into just a a shocking amount of time 315 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:56,200 Speaker 1: and effort spent in the legal world with margarine. After 316 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 1: margarine was introduced in the United States in eighteen seventy four, 317 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 1: the push to regulate it started almost immediately. The National 318 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:08,639 Speaker 1: Association for the Prevention of Adulteration of Butter was formed 319 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 1: in eighty two. That was a real thing, and by 320 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: eighteen eight six, twenty seven states had marjarine laws on 321 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:19,679 Speaker 1: their books. Twenty of these states required marjarine to be 322 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:25,880 Speaker 1: labeled specifically as margarine, and then Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, 323 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 1: and Ohio band marjarine outright. I can't help but think 324 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 1: about the fact that there's a lot of dairy industry 325 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 1: in those are uh. That year President Grover Cleveland signed 326 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 1: the Oleo Margarine Act into law, and with that marjarine 327 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: manufacturers had to pay six hundred dollars, wholesalers four hundred 328 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:50,199 Speaker 1: and eighty dollars, and retailers forty eight dollars for the 329 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:56,199 Speaker 1: privilege of selling margarine, making it of being in the 330 00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 1: marjarine pipeline. Sure consumers had to pay attacks two cents 331 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 1: per pound on margarine that they purchased. So that's not 332 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 1: a lot of time that elapsed between when margarine was 333 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 1: introduced in the United States and when we had a 334 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 1: national law with taxes. Although the dairy industry which was 335 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: focused well, I mean largely in the Midwest, not just 336 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,399 Speaker 1: the Midwest, but the big part of the Midwest, this 337 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,880 Speaker 1: was hugely in favor of this law. The South, home 338 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 1: to the Soy and cotton seed farms that were supplying 339 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 1: the marjarine industry with oils were not so much in 340 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 1: favor of the law. Also opposed to it were people 341 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 1: who felt like this was the first step down a slippery, 342 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:39,680 Speaker 1: slippery slope of the federal government needlessly regulating private business. 343 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 1: There were a lot of people who were terrified that 344 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:47,159 Speaker 1: the government was just going to start regulating everything. Even 345 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 1: though the Oleo Margarine Act had been touted as something 346 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 1: that would curtail the practice of margarine fraud, that fraud 347 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:57,680 Speaker 1: actually got worse after this act went into effect. There 348 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 1: was more deliberate mislabeling of march are in as butter 349 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,880 Speaker 1: in an effort to evade those taxes instead of less. 350 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:09,199 Speaker 1: Running alongside all of these taxes and prohibitions were laws 351 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:13,119 Speaker 1: about margarine's color sounds we talked about before the break 352 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: at this at this point in history, margarine in it's 353 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 1: originally made state was like white and lardie looking. Multiple 354 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 1: states outlawed yellow margarine. Specifically, in eighteen eighty four, Vermont 355 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 1: passed a law that margarine sold there had to be 356 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 1: dyed pink coorayt yep. That's for holly. Holly's margarine in 357 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:39,200 Speaker 1: New Hampshire and West Virginia followed suit see I to 358 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 1: see you making all kinds of beautiful pink sauces the 359 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 1: princess food. I mean that seems obvious. I wish it 360 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,639 Speaker 1: were butter, but that's just because I like some butterfat. 361 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 1: The move to regulate marjarine color increased dramatically over the 362 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: next few decades. By nineteen o two, thirty two of 363 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 1: the then forty five states had regulation about margarine color, 364 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 1: many of them banning yellow margarine, and some of them, 365 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 1: like Vermont, had already done mandating that it be dyed 366 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:12,399 Speaker 1: colors other than yellow. That same year, the Oleo Margarine 367 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 1: Act of eighteen eighty six was amended in what was 368 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 1: known as the Grout Bill, named after William Wallace Grout 369 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: of Vermont. This bill so it's hard to say some 370 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: of today's episode with a straight face. This bill raised 371 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:30,159 Speaker 1: the tax on colored margarine from two cents a pound 372 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 1: to ten cents a pound. Meanwhile, the tax on uncolored 373 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:38,199 Speaker 1: margarine's the white margarine, was dropped to a quarter of 374 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,360 Speaker 1: a cent per pound. Those licensing fees that had been 375 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: part of the original Oleo margarine law were also reduced 376 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:49,719 Speaker 1: dramatically for the manufacturers, distributors, and retailers who handled only 377 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 1: uncolored margarine, and that nineteen o two amendment also set 378 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: the regulation that any margarine being shipped from one state 379 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:01,679 Speaker 1: to another was subject to the laws of the destination state. 380 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: This changed the world of margarine manufacturing dramatically. By nineteen fourteen, 381 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 1: fewer than one thousand retailers were selling colored margarine compared 382 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 1: to more than sixty two thousand who, at least according 383 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 1: to their records, were only selling uncolored margarine. There's a 384 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 1: lot of at least in that at least according there 385 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 1: was still a lot of margarine fraud happening. However, enforcement 386 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,680 Speaker 1: on all of us was extremely difficult, since the colored 387 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,880 Speaker 1: here related only to the artificial color that was being 388 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 1: added when the product was made. Manufacturers started getting around 389 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,640 Speaker 1: that law by selling white margarine with this little capsule 390 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,680 Speaker 1: of yellow food dye that could be worked through the product, 391 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 1: and then eventually selling margarine in these needable bags to 392 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:49,679 Speaker 1: make that step a lot easier. So you would like 393 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,919 Speaker 1: you would break the little capsule with it in the 394 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,440 Speaker 1: sealed up bag, and then you would mash it all 395 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 1: through the bag until it was all yellow. This sort 396 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:02,160 Speaker 1: of surprises me. And here is why. So you would 397 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: think that the reason they were coloring it yellow in 398 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,199 Speaker 1: the first place was to make it more salable, like 399 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: it was more appealing than something that just looked like 400 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: a slab of lard. But if you're then selling the 401 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,160 Speaker 1: thing that looks the way that they were concerned, would 402 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 1: not be appealing with a d i y yellow like 403 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 1: you still know that it's that. I think then maybe 404 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:25,440 Speaker 1: did it bump up because it became a fun kitchen crack. 405 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: A lot of it was because it just does not 406 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 1: look very yummy to spread lard on your toast. Yeah, 407 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 1: A lot of it had to do with like the 408 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:38,680 Speaker 1: visual presentation once it actually got to your dinner table, 409 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: it looks it just it does not. The idea of 410 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,399 Speaker 1: slathering something that looks like crisco on my toast sounds 411 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,639 Speaker 1: pretty gross to me. Yeah, I put some people be 412 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: into it. But then in hydrogenation was discovered and hydrogen 413 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,119 Speaker 1: eating a natural yellow oil retained a lot more of 414 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:02,440 Speaker 1: that yellow color than previous methods for making margarine. In 415 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 1: the federal government applied the ten cents of pound tax 416 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 1: to naturally yellow margarine made with hydrogenated oils, and in 417 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: ninety three, federal law defined quote colored margarine as anything 418 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 1: containing quote more than one point six degrees of yellow 419 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: on the love bond tentometer. That's a great band name 420 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 1: to bond tentometer. I'd go see them. All of these 421 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: prohibitions and taxes and regulations wound up leading to multiple 422 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:37,120 Speaker 1: Supreme Court cases. So in addition to Congress spending lots 423 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: of time and energy the note passing laws about how 424 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:45,359 Speaker 1: many degrees of yellow made colored margarine, the Supreme Court 425 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 1: was in on this action. To you, just as some examples, 426 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 1: and I'm I'm serious, these are just examples. There are 427 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,399 Speaker 1: lots lots more than these examples. Powell versus Pennsylvania in 428 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: eighty eight questioned police power to enforce a law that 429 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 1: said no one could have marjorine under Fourteenth Amendment equal 430 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:08,920 Speaker 1: protection grounds. The fourteenth Amendment. Just to be clear, like 431 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 1: the fourteenth Amendment is the amendment people have been talking 432 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 1: about about, like whether children with disabilities have the right 433 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 1: to be educated in the same classroom as children who 434 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 1: were not disabled, or whether whether like brown brown versus Board, 435 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,719 Speaker 1: that was a Fourteenth Amendment case. The core unanimously ruled 436 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 1: that the Fourteenth Amendments Equal Protection clause did not apply 437 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 1: to buying margarine. What what as a ridiculous, ridiculous use 438 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 1: of the Fourteenth Amendment? Yeah? Uh, Shahlenberger versus Pennsylvania in 439 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,400 Speaker 1: dealt with Rhode Island's attempt to export margarine to Pennsylvania, 440 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: where it was banned. The Supreme Court did not uphold 441 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 1: this import ban, saying that a state couldn't ban the 442 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: import of a normal, federally town next product. Yeah. I 443 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 1: don't think this would have flown if there had not 444 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 1: been a federal tax at that point. But the fact 445 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 1: it was like, Okay, you can't, you can't have it 446 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 1: at the state level, banning a product that is taxed 447 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 1: at the federal level was like how the Supreme Court 448 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:17,879 Speaker 1: approach this. Collins versus New Hampshire also in eighteen ninety eight, 449 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: dealt with the New Hampshire law that required all margarine 450 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:24,160 Speaker 1: sold in the state to be pink, including margarine imported 451 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,159 Speaker 1: from out of state. This one was also found to 452 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:32,800 Speaker 1: be unconstitutional, with the decision including quote where the state 453 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,399 Speaker 1: has not the power to absolutely prohibit the sale of 454 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: an article of commerce like OLEO margarine in its pure state. 455 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:44,160 Speaker 1: It has no power to provide that such articles shall 456 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: be colored or rather discolored, by adding a foreign substance 457 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 1: to it. I think we should bring back the pink 458 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 1: margarine law, but that's just me plumbly. Versus Massachusetts was 459 00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 1: in eighteen ninety four and it related to the Massachuset 460 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,360 Speaker 1: Sits ban on yellow margarine, which the court upheld as 461 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: constitutional because it was not a wholesale ban on margarine, 462 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:13,400 Speaker 1: just on yellow margine. These are just examples. Uh, there 463 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: were a whole bunch of other Supreme Court cases about 464 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 1: margarine as well, and about taxes on it, and about 465 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,960 Speaker 1: the licensing if you use, and the colors, and interstate commerce, 466 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 1: like the I read an article that was about barriers 467 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 1: to interstate commerce, and it was sort of listing off 468 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:30,400 Speaker 1: all of these societal things that create barriers and interstate 469 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:34,400 Speaker 1: commerce where states laws are incompatible with, like shipping products 470 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,639 Speaker 1: across the state lines, and margarine was listed as a 471 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 1: barrier to interstate commerce. These federal laws about margarine crimes. Also, 472 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 1: we're not just an idle threat. At least four men 473 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 1: served time in Leavenworth Federal Penitentiary for margarine infractions. At 474 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 1: least one of them more than once, including evading the 475 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 1: margarine tax and selling fake margarine. I have to think 476 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 1: if somebody asked what you're in for and you say 477 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 1: marjarine fraud, you're not going to really have much like 478 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: toughness cred now I'm thinking now main fraud. So all 479 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,560 Speaker 1: of this anti marjarine fervor in the United States started 480 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,240 Speaker 1: to shift during both of both of the World Wars, 481 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 1: when dairy was needed for the war effort, and also 482 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 1: during the Great Depression, when marjarine's cheapness was a really 483 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 1: big selling point. During the nineteen twenties, marjarine manufacturers also 484 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 1: stops trying to present their product as an alternative to 485 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 1: butter and sort of labeling it as basically a delicious 486 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 1: spread and cooking ingredient that was yummy and wholesome on 487 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 1: its own merits. Marjarine gradually lost its association with being 488 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 1: a product for poor people, and the marjarine industry gradually 489 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 1: organized itself into a more effective lobbying body, including forming 490 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 1: the National Association of Marjarine Manufacturers. Then, as the dairy 491 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 1: industry had done back in the eighteen eighties, the marjarine 492 00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 1: industry started lobbying for the Oleo Margarine Act to be overturned, 493 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 1: and it was aided by a steep increase in the 494 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 1: price of butter. President Harry Truman signed the Margarine Act 495 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 1: of nineteen fifty repealing the eighteen eighty six legislation. However, 496 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 1: individual states still had their own rules about margarine and 497 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 1: how it was taxed and colored. Wisconsin was the last 498 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 1: state to overturn its laws banning yellow margarine in nineteen 499 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 1: sixty seven. Uh And and also of all the states 500 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 1: had the most and the strictest margarine laws. It was 501 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 1: illegal in Wisconsin to sell an even use colored margarine. 502 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 1: If you wanted to go outside the state of Wisconsin 503 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 1: and buy colored margarine and bring it back, you were 504 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 1: supposed to get a consumers permit to do that, and 505 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 1: record all of your purchases and pay a six cents 506 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,800 Speaker 1: a pound tax on those purchases every six months or 507 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 1: every three months. Sorry. Uh. That was a vastly unpopular program. 508 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 1: Nobody really wanted to do it. At its peak, only 509 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 1: a hundred and twenty annual licenses had been sold, which 510 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 1: was in nineteen fifty four. There were definitely way, way, 511 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 1: way more people crossing the state line to buy yellow 512 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 1: margarine in that year. Um, people sort of tried to 513 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 1: work their minds around the fact, uh or or consider it. 514 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 1: Probably they wouldn't get arrested because the law specified that 515 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,720 Speaker 1: it was illegal to use colored margarine, not to own it, 516 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 1: So you would maybe only get arrested if the officer 517 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 1: confiscated your lunchbox. I saw margarine on your sandwich. But 518 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 1: are you just gonna I don't know. Maybe you're going 519 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 1: to tell the police leave the margarine somewhere and not 520 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 1: consume it. Maybe you're just going to tell you the 521 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,720 Speaker 1: police that you're margarine is just for show your collector 522 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 1: like hants house, I'm a margarine collector. This is part 523 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 1: of my museum. Uh yeah, I'm I'm really head scratching 524 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 1: on that one. If that's like how you kind of 525 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 1: morally walk yourself through, It's okay, It's okay, it's like 526 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 1: but is it like I have your cake and eat 527 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 1: it too, where you eat the margarine and then you 528 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 1: neither you don't own it even anymore? I don't understand. 529 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 1: Even so, most of the stories about smuggling margarine are 530 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,640 Speaker 1: about bringing it to Wisconsin in from neighboring states. As 531 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 1: they repealed their own bands on yellow margarine. Service stations 532 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 1: at the state line, stalked up on it, and friends 533 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 1: and neighbors formed networks where they shared the responsibility of 534 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 1: making the trip and traveling back with a trunk full 535 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 1: of contraband. Wisconsin continues to van margarine in public places 536 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 1: unless specifically asked for an attempt to overturn that in 537 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 1: two thousand eleven, I did not misread that that's two 538 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 1: thousand eleven failed. I tried to confirm that that is 539 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,480 Speaker 1: definitely still a case. And if you live in Wisconsin 540 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 1: and you know that it's not, then you can just 541 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,720 Speaker 1: let us know. Yeah, because I went on a hunt 542 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 1: for that information had a hard time with it. Uh. 543 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,280 Speaker 1: There are some really great first person accounts of people 544 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 1: who like remember waking up on Saturday morning and their 545 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 1: mom and all of their mom's friends would be sitting 546 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 1: around the table, uh like like like having the conversation 547 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:14,480 Speaker 1: about whose turn it was to drive to Illinois, uh 548 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 1: and who paid for gas last time, And then they 549 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 1: would come back with this trunk full of margarine and 550 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,920 Speaker 1: then put all the kids to work like needing it 551 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,479 Speaker 1: so that the yellow would be worked through before they 552 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 1: distributed it to all of their neighbors. It was a 553 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,720 Speaker 1: whole I think you mean to all the other collectors. Yes, 554 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 1: because they were not going to use this margarine, they 555 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: were just going to own it. Of course, now today, 556 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 1: years later, both butter and margarine have still been on 557 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: the receiving end of negative health associations. In the years 558 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 1: since the nineteen sixties, when Marjorie became a lot more legal, 559 00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 1: margarine got a lot of negative publicity because of transpats, 560 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,200 Speaker 1: that whole hydrogenation process that made it possible to make 561 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:59,479 Speaker 1: margarine that was already yellow not actually very good for you, 562 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 1: and a lot of ways. And then both butter or 563 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,040 Speaker 1: butter has gotten a lot of bad publicity because of 564 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 1: saturated fats, And then both of them have been decried 565 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,480 Speaker 1: as terrible because of the general trend towards fat free 566 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,200 Speaker 1: and low fat foods, although there is just an increasing 567 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 1: body of evidence that this whole fat free, low fat 568 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,960 Speaker 1: food trend is not actually healthier. Oh, you need some 569 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,239 Speaker 1: fat put butter you Okay, Your brain is made out 570 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,280 Speaker 1: of fat, literally, and all of your cellular membranes also 571 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:31,840 Speaker 1: made out of fat, so you need it in your diet. Yeah, 572 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:35,600 Speaker 1: And also just for happiness. That too, make sure fred 573 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:42,720 Speaker 1: taste good anyway, butter versus, I am still astonished that 574 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:46,200 Speaker 1: that much time and effort within the Supreme Court was 575 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,759 Speaker 1: spent arguing about margin margarine. The longer we work on 576 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:53,400 Speaker 1: this podcast, the less and less I'm shocked by the 577 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:58,080 Speaker 1: things that have gotten to the Supreme Court. Yeah, in arduous, 578 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:01,920 Speaker 1: angry legal battle, right right, But if you're I guess, 579 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:05,240 Speaker 1: in the industry, there's a lot on the line, even 580 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,960 Speaker 1: though to us it seems silly. Yeah, there were a 581 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,960 Speaker 1: lot of a lot of people who were like, you 582 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 1: were keeping especially people who are who don't have a 583 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,480 Speaker 1: lot of money, You're keeping them from buying this like 584 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,440 Speaker 1: totally wholesome food product. And the dairy industry would be like, 585 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:24,439 Speaker 1: it is made from candle wax, and really, I mean, 586 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,600 Speaker 1: we have to bring back pink margarine. That actually did happen. 587 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,759 Speaker 1: There was a there was like sort of a I 588 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 1: don't remember which of the many many margine manufacturers it was, 589 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:38,799 Speaker 1: but they made like a squeezable margarine that was sort 590 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 1: of marketed as being for kids, and it came in 591 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,279 Speaker 1: pink and I think green or something. It came in 592 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 1: two colors. Uh, I remember that for ketchup? Yeah, I 593 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 1: don't remember for margarine. But now I'm just my brain 594 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,520 Speaker 1: is like, oh, just get some butter and start your 595 00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:56,439 Speaker 1: route with your butter and your flour and then add 596 00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:58,600 Speaker 1: beat juice and you can make a pink sauce that way. 597 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:02,719 Speaker 1: Like I'm off, I'm making pink. But I have some 598 00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,400 Speaker 1: I have some friends who make compounded margarine, not compounded margine. 599 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:08,120 Speaker 1: They make compounded butter. I don't know why I just 600 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:11,120 Speaker 1: said margarine, but so they'll like work all kinds of 601 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:15,880 Speaker 1: delicious herbs, or they made a bloody mary compounded margin. 602 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 1: What I know, that's not that's not your jam, but 603 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,240 Speaker 1: it is. It is my jam to have like bloody 604 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,560 Speaker 1: mary seasonings in the butter. It was great. You're making 605 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:29,880 Speaker 1: the worst, most disgusted face. So anyway, I'm just like 606 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:34,960 Speaker 1: a Martini margarine or a Martini compounded butter. It would 607 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:39,839 Speaker 1: not surprise me anyway. So I am imagining that if 608 00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:43,000 Speaker 1: you wanted, there is a similar compounding method that you 609 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,279 Speaker 1: could use to color your better. Yeah, for sure, Like 610 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:48,960 Speaker 1: I said, beat juice, it's probably something I'm interested about it. 611 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,080 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us today for this 612 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 1: Saturday Classic if you have heard any kind of email 613 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,360 Speaker 1: address or maybe a Facebook you are l during the 614 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:03,759 Speaker 1: course of the episode, that might be obsolete. 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