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Speaker 1: Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. When we think about

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Speaker 1: a written language of English, there's a couple of phrases

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Speaker 1: that come to mind. One in particular, it goes something

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Speaker 1: like this. When people are communicating verbally, they might say

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Speaker 1: something to someone such as words fail me. But yet

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Speaker 1: that same person, if they were to take the time,

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Speaker 1: they could perhaps take a pin or even on their computer,

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Speaker 1: and they can communicate those things through the written word

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Speaker 1: as opposed to the spoken word. It's just like there's

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Speaker 1: a connection with it, between that action of writing and

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Speaker 1: those things that are contained within us that are written down. Today,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to talk about a case that is in

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Speaker 1: the very early stages of investigation, but it was so

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Speaker 1: striking to me because this involves two people that were

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Speaker 1: married and were in the throes of a divorce, and those,

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Speaker 1: as many of you know, are very painful and contain

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Speaker 1: a lot of emotion. But the alleged perpetrator in this

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Speaker 1: case did leave a written note. His writing was allegedly

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Speaker 1: scrawled in blood. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks.

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Speaker 1: I'm a bit more ross today, I think having to

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Speaker 1: deal with this case and to talk about it with

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Speaker 1: you because it is evidence of a relationship that has

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Speaker 1: come to a brutal end. And it seems as though

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Speaker 1: that in these writings that we're going to discuss, something

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Speaker 1: fell apart as far as communication. And I don't know

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Speaker 1: in what sense that occurred, But many times these cases

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Speaker 1: that we cover on bodybags, there we have no rhyme

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Speaker 1: or reason to try to understand what motivation there is

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Speaker 1: behind something. But when you see people that are writing

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Speaker 1: text messages and leaving notes behind written in blood, that

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Speaker 1: takes us to a completely different level.

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Speaker 2: John Wonder is thirty one years old. His wife, Ashley

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Speaker 2: is twenty nine, and they've been married for a couple

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Speaker 2: of years. They have two children, two boys, a four

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Speaker 2: year old and a two year old. Actually and John

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Speaker 2: worked for the same company. They also had gone through

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Speaker 2: many ups and downs in their relationship, financial and other

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Speaker 2: and they actually were still living together in their home.

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Speaker 2: But we're in the process of getting a divorce.

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Speaker 1: Isn't that an interesting situation to find yourself in, particularly

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Speaker 1: if you're involved. And there's been a number of cases

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Speaker 1: like this over the years, but I've always found that

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Speaker 1: dynamic actually worked a couple like this as a death

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Speaker 1: investigator where you had people that were in the midst

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Speaker 1: of going through a divorce, and you had like one

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Speaker 1: party was living in the basement of the house and

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Speaker 1: occupying that has a separate area to exit the house.

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Speaker 1: And I've always felt like that familial kind of dynamic

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Speaker 1: that was once where you were kind of together as

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Speaker 1: a family and you're occupying this dwelling and all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, this contentious thing rises up between you as

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Speaker 1: a couple and you're having to see one another still

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Speaker 1: you're talking about that you're going to split, make it permanent,

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Speaker 1: you're not going to be around one another, but yet

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Speaker 1: you're still under the same roof that that's a and

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Speaker 1: then to work in the same environment as well. That dynamic,

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Speaker 1: I would think is I can't even begin to imagine it,

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Speaker 1: because divorce in and of itself is so very, very painful.

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Speaker 2: It is a very stripped down version of yourself at

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Speaker 2: oftentimes your worth. I don't know all the ins and

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Speaker 2: outs of the relationship. I don't, I nobody does. But

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Speaker 2: I do know that there was actually a plan. Ashley

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Speaker 2: was planning on moving out at the end of September,

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Speaker 2: first of October. Everyone knew it mentioned they worked together

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Speaker 2: at the same company. Everybody there knew that this couple

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Speaker 2: was going through a divorce, and when they didn't show

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Speaker 2: up for work, the employer called the police for a

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Speaker 2: welfare check. Now I don't know about you, Joe, but

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Speaker 2: I've had people working with me and for me that

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Speaker 2: if they didn't show up and I couldn't get them

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Speaker 2: on the phone, I would go over and check on them. Maybe,

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Speaker 2: But my first thought wouldn't be called the police and

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Speaker 2: have them go over and see what's going on. So

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Speaker 2: obviously there was a known possibility of violence and what

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Speaker 2: have you in this relationship that made the employer call

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Speaker 2: the police.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And one of the things that we do relative

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Speaker 1: to investigations when you have these familial events that occur

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Speaker 1: like this within a family. I don't know about you,

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't consider everybody I'm related to be my friend. Now.

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Speaker 1: I love I love my family, don't get me wrong.

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Speaker 2: But you're not the person that they're going to call it.

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Speaker 2: Two am needing help.

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Speaker 1: Right choose who your friends are going to be. And

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Speaker 1: it's really interesting that for many of us that work

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Speaker 1: in close proximity other people, you wind up being closer

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Speaker 1: with those individuals that are in your workspace than you

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Speaker 1: do with people that are extended family and this sort

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Speaker 1: of thing. And here's the interesting note about this. When

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Speaker 1: we're conducting a death investigation, and I think that a

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Speaker 1: lot of people that are listening to this can understand

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Speaker 1: and comprehend this. Somebody's going to walk through the door

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Speaker 1: at work and bring their home life with them many

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Speaker 1: times and they'll start just I don't know any o

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Speaker 1: the wather they describe it. They just start vomiting on

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Speaker 1: their coworkers how horrible it is at home or how

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Speaker 1: even conversely, how great it is at home. And if

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Speaker 1: people have a comfort level I think with relationships that

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Speaker 1: they develop at work. So when we go out to

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Speaker 1: conduct a death investigation, and it can be any kind

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Speaker 1: of death, this is particularly keen and suicide. We're keen

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Speaker 1: to extract information from coworkers. You can go and talk

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Speaker 1: to them and they will reveal details, intimate details about

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Speaker 1: victims that you never would get from say a cousin,

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Speaker 1: perhaps somebody that doesn't have an awareness was And it

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Speaker 1: seems rather simplistic, but it's one of the major sources

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Speaker 1: of data places to collect data about an ongoing case

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Speaker 1: where we can begin to understand things about the dynamic

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Speaker 1: that went on.

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Speaker 2: Let me set this up a little bit. Okay, it's

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Speaker 2: about ten thirty in the morning. Ashley and John Wonder

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Speaker 2: have not shown up for work, but around eight thirty

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Speaker 2: that morning, John had taken the boys over to Ashley's parents' house.

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Speaker 2: At Ashley's mom watched the boys when they were at work,

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Speaker 2: and so John had taken the boys again, ages four

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Speaker 2: and two. He was driving his red car. So John

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Speaker 2: drops the kids off, but he doesn't do what he

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Speaker 2: normally does. Normally, he goes, knocks on the door, takes

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Speaker 2: them inside, gets them all situated, and goes on about

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Speaker 2: his merry way. That didn't happen on this particular morning

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Speaker 2: John dropped the boys off. He's driving his red car.

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Speaker 2: He drops the boys off on the front porch and leaves.

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Speaker 2: He doesn't go inside. He doesn't wait for Ashley's mom

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Speaker 2: to come out and give the kids nothing. Ashley's mother

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Speaker 2: made a note, Hey, this is different, what's up with this?

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Speaker 2: Two hours later, they get the call from police. They're

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Speaker 2: going to do the welfare check. So mom and dad,

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Speaker 2: Ashley's mother and father go to Ashley and John Wonder's

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Speaker 2: home at the same time the police are there. The

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Speaker 2: reason I pointed out that John had driven his red

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Speaker 2: car earlier to drop the kids off, because his red

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Speaker 2: car was there at the house when the police arrived

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Speaker 2: for the welfare check. But Ashley had a rented yellow

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Speaker 2: Toyota Wrap four and it was gone. So that's what

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Speaker 2: police are trying to figure out. They don't know what

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Speaker 2: they're walking into. They just know the couples in the

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Speaker 2: middle of a divorce. They didn't show up for work.

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Speaker 2: John dropped the kids off at Ashley's mom's house. But

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Speaker 2: now they can't get John or Ashley on the phone.

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Speaker 2: So the police decided let's make entry into the home.

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Speaker 2: And Ashley's dad actually walked around to the back of

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Speaker 2: the house and found a sliding glass door that was unlocked,

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Speaker 2: and he went in. It was Ashley Wonder's father that

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Speaker 2: discovered this bloody mess. He found his own daughter in

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Speaker 2: the laundry room with a door tied off with a

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Speaker 2: bungee cord. His twenty nine year old daughter, mother of

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Speaker 2: his two grandchildren, is laying on the floor naked from

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Speaker 2: the waist down. She's been stabbed, punctured, sliced. There's a

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Speaker 2: butcher knife, a cleaver next to her body and on

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Speaker 2: her leg. The word in blood wonder justin Scott Morgan,

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Speaker 2: how much blood would have been on the scene.

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Speaker 1: A volume is sufficient to make a father recoil in horror.

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Speaker 1: I can't even begin to imagine discovering my baby girl

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Speaker 1: in the state. And unfortunately this happens many, many times.

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Speaker 1: Those that are within your circle are the ones that

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Speaker 1: bear witness or the first eyes on a horrific scene

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Speaker 1: like this. And depended upon how long she lived after

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Speaker 1: the initial tack with these edged weapons is going to

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Speaker 1: dictate how much blood there would be there. And also

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Speaker 1: to a lesser degree, probably the manipulation of the body,

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Speaker 1: because you can turn bodies and try to move them

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Speaker 1: in certain ways, and if they have open defects in

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Speaker 1: the body, you'll have leakage from the blood. So it's

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Speaker 1: not just the dynamic of say, spurting blood. You'll have

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Speaker 1: this kind of blood that will issue forth from wounds.

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Speaker 1: And this can even occur. The seepage can actually occur

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Speaker 1: even after death, particularly if someone has moved the body.

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Speaker 1: And here's one other element that I wanted to point

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Speaker 1: out the fact that this young woman when the father

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Speaker 1: first cast his gaze on his daughter beyond the blood,

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Speaker 1: and maybe he saw the weapons at that point in time.

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Speaker 1: It's hard to really describe or understand that because you

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Speaker 1: kind of take a snapshot in your brain, and I've

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Speaker 1: talked to a lot of first on slight witnesses relative

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Speaker 1: to these horrific kind of events, your brain, it's almost

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Speaker 1: like that moment in time where you see something that

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Speaker 1: you have to do a double take because you can't

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Speaker 1: your brain can't process it. And that happens to us

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Speaker 1: in life a lot, but how much more so in

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Speaker 1: an event like this where you're looking down. The other

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Speaker 1: thing that he may have observed at that point in

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Speaker 1: time that kind of rows up in this is that

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Speaker 1: Ashley has got a belt around her neck as well.

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Speaker 1: And this is a form of literature. So the big

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Speaker 1: question now, particularly as it applies to the police and

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Speaker 1: the medical examiner, how did she actually die? Was it

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Speaker 1: from sharp force injury or was she choked to death

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Speaker 1: with a belt. It's one thing when you're investigating in

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Speaker 1: death to have a single modality of death, and I

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Speaker 1: think gunshot wound, stab wound, blunt force trauma, or ligature strangulation.

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Speaker 1: But when you have two potential modalities of death. It

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Speaker 1: complicates it from an investigative standpoint. First off, it complicates

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Speaker 1: it in a sense that what is the actual weapon

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Speaker 1: that brought about the death and if both were utilized,

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Speaker 1: how could we do that relative to sequencing? And they're

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Speaker 1: both utilized, So what was the overwhelming factor and a death?

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Speaker 1: And in this particular case, Dy, we're looking at both

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Speaker 1: sharp force injury death as well as potential ligature strangulation.

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Speaker 1: That's something we have to make sense of.

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Speaker 2: Back up for just a minute. The welfare check when

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Speaker 2: the employer calls police A when you do a welfare check,

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Speaker 2: I'm sure they give them some background information couples going

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Speaker 2: through divorce kind of concerned either one showed up. But

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Speaker 2: when they arrived to do this check, what would motivate

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Speaker 2: the police to allow the dad? I mean, they can't

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Speaker 2: get in the front door, they don't have a key

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Speaker 2: or whatever. But why would police let the dad go

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Speaker 2: around and see if he could find a way in.

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Speaker 2: It seems to me that that would be their job.

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Speaker 2: Not I'm not blaming the police, boy, I want to

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Speaker 2: make sure I'm not. I just am curious why they

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Speaker 2: would allow that to happen. Why wouldn't they go and

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Speaker 2: see if there was a door open?

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Speaker 1: Well, this is why. Yeah, And who's to say that

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Speaker 1: the dad didn't have somebody behind him? We don't know,

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Speaker 1: But I can give you kind of the short answer

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Speaker 1: relative to this, if I'm actually capable of giving a

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Speaker 1: short answer about anything in this case. When you're doing

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Speaker 1: a welfare check, you don't know if, in fact there

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Speaker 1: is somebody within this environment that is deceased. You don't

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Speaker 1: know that a crime has been committed at this point

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Speaker 1: in time. So for a police officer to make in

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Speaker 1: into a home, you're on very thin ice. When it's

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Speaker 1: an issue of constitutional considerations, search and seizure and just privacy.

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Speaker 1: People have an expectation, you know, just because they're not

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Speaker 1: answering the phone doesn't mean that a cop can kick

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Speaker 1: in the door. So the default position in this particular

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Speaker 1: case is you say, to the family member who may

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Speaker 1: have initiated the call, we think that it actually initiated

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Speaker 1: from the office. But you have a family member there, Well,

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Speaker 1: they're interested, they understand the lay of the land. They're

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Speaker 1: the ones that are going to go make entry. Now

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Speaker 1: if the family member see something in there, believe me.

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Speaker 1: These police officers go out on welfare checks all the time. Dave.

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Speaker 1: It's almost like cops get false alarms all the time,

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Speaker 1: on burglar alarms, and you'll hear them on the radio.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of kind of an odd thing where they'll say, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we got another open door burglar alarm that's going on.

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Speaker 1: It's such and such main street, and they go out

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Speaker 1: there all the time. It's almost the same way with

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Speaker 1: welfare checks. They go do welfare checks all the time.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that you're going to find somebody that

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Speaker 1: is brutally murdered in their own home. So the default

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Speaker 1: position would be the dad. Have the dad open the

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Speaker 1: door looking there, and when he sees this, you can

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Speaker 1: imagine he certainly requested the presence of the police at

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Speaker 1: that time.

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Speaker 2: I know she's got puncture wounds, But is it possible

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Speaker 2: that the suspect here was trying to stage something maybe

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Speaker 2: to make it look like she was trying to kill

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Speaker 2: herself in the throes of depression from getting a divorce

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Speaker 2: or what have you, and that maybe that just didn't work,

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Speaker 2: and so he went ahead and killed her by strangulation,

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Speaker 2: ann knife or do we even know where? Can we

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Speaker 2: find out rather which came first, the knife or the strangulation.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, let's go back to the idea of the utilization

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Speaker 1: of a belt as a ligature to facilitate death. In

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Speaker 1: answer to your question, yes, and we have to understand

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Speaker 1: that in my line of work, and there's people out

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Speaker 1: there that are doing it right now, that are out

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Speaker 1: there as we're speaking right now, that are medical legal

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Speaker 1: death investigators. We handle far more suicides than we ever

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Speaker 1: will homicides. I think that everybody thinks that homicides top everything.

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Speaker 1: They're not. There's the lowest percentage of manners of death,

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Speaker 1: and so we're very good in my field. We're very

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Speaker 1: good at investigating suicides because they outpace in many jurisdictions.

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Speaker 1: They will. I've seen numbers as high as three to

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Speaker 1: one outpacing homicides. And you don't ever hear about a

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Speaker 1: suicide unless it's somebody famous, but still it's a death investigation,

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Speaker 1: and many times it's a violent death. So my experience,

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Speaker 1: I've probably seen at least equal numbers of death where

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Speaker 1: something other than a rope has been used as a ligature.

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Speaker 1: And in this particular case, we're talking about a belt.

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Speaker 1: And here's the thing. When people think about modes of

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Speaker 1: death and attacks and all those sorts of things, and

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Speaker 1: even suicides, what's common in the environment that can be

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Speaker 1: used in order to facilitate either a homicide or suicide. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think everybody I know I would have to say,

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Speaker 1: I guess owns a belt. So that's at your fingertips literally,

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Speaker 1: is something that can be used and has been used

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Speaker 1: for years and years and years. What else can be used, Well,

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Speaker 1: a knife, a meat cleaver, all of those elements are

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Speaker 1: there within that environment, and so everything has to be

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Speaker 1: taken into consideration when you're doing your examination on a body.

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Speaker 1: Because that's why it's so important to understand we've got

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Speaker 1: too lethal modalities with this environment that are literally on

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Speaker 1: display right there at your feet. As an investigator, and

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Speaker 1: it's a chicken or an egg situation, you're trying to

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Speaker 1: determine what was it that we can kind of assess

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Speaker 1: at this point in time that brought about the death. Now,

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Speaker 1: you're not necessarily going to be able to appreciate that

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Speaker 1: at the scene. That's why bodies are removed from the

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Speaker 1: scene and taken to the medical examiner or the corner's office,

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Speaker 1: and an autopsy has performed, because this is a determination

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Speaker 1: that can only be made on the autopsy table. Is

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Speaker 1: we don't have some kind of magic vision where we

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Speaker 1: can stand over a body and say this is definitely

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Speaker 1: the cause of death. There are a lot of people

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Speaker 1: that say, well, why in the world do you have

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Speaker 1: to do an autopsy in this case? Well, because if

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Speaker 1: we don't do an autopsy in these particular cases, in

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Speaker 1: any kind of case, once that body is either taken

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Speaker 1: to the funeral home or taken to the crematory, that

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Speaker 1: opportunity's lost.

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Speaker 2: Dave, So you've got to take care of everything.

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Speaker 1: You have to, and everything has to be be taken

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Speaker 1: into consideration. The old adage about you cast a wide net,

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Speaker 1: you catch a lot of fish. Intellectually, that's kind of

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Speaker 1: where our mind is. Everything is on the table, everything

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Speaker 1: is to be considered at this unknown spot at this

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Speaker 1: particular time. Because you weren't there to bear witness to this.

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Speaker 1: You're an investigator coming out to investigate the scene, to

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Speaker 1: try and try to determine what had actually taken place,

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Speaker 1: because you're going to need answers, and in this case,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of unanswered questions.

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Speaker 2: We've got the belt around your neck they may mention

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Speaker 2: of a bungee cord being used on the laundry room door.

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Speaker 2: They may mention of the knives, but also puncture wounds

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Speaker 2: and stab wounds. I thought that those were just different

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Speaker 2: words for the exact same thing.

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Speaker 1: No, not at all, because in our world, puncture wound

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Speaker 1: implies a specific element that would create how can I

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Speaker 1: describe it? In court? You'll read medical examiner reports, autopsy

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Speaker 1: reports where we will use the term defect, defect, defect

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Speaker 1: a defect in our world, essentially, if you want to

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Speaker 1: break it down to the elemental level, means whole, and

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Speaker 1: when you see multiple defects in a body, well that

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Speaker 1: can mean anything. What we're saying in a roundabout way

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Speaker 1: is to say that there are multiple holes in a body.

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Speaker 1: But when you break it down and you say we

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Speaker 1: have stab wounds, well, stab wounds have a particular nature

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Speaker 1: to them. Off they're defined as narrow and deep. And

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Speaker 1: what does that mean, Well, the actual hole or the

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Speaker 1: defect in the body when that knife, that sharp edged

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Speaker 1: weapon is inserted, it creates this kind of linear defect

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Speaker 1: which means lyne and I've often described it to my

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00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:23,720
Speaker 1: students as a winking eye. If it's a single edged weapon, okay,

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Speaker 1: and most knives are. You don't come across a lot

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Speaker 1: of double edged knives like daggers, so most and in

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Speaker 1: this particular case, there's a butcher knife found, which is

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Speaker 1: a single edged weapon. So it looks like that defect

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Speaker 1: actually looks like a winking eye. Just imagine that in

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Speaker 1: your mind. With a puncture wound. That implies a circular

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Speaker 1: hole of a circular defect. Well, what can do that? Well,

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Speaker 1: there are a number of things that can create a

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Speaker 1: circular defect. If you have, say, for instance, a piece

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Speaker 1: of rebar, which is the structure that you use to rebar,

348
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,600
Speaker 1: is used to shore up concrete, you pour over it.

349
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Speaker 1: It's steel, very hard substance. If someone is punctured with

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Speaker 1: a piece of rebar and that's withdrawn, you'll see a

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Speaker 1: circular defect as a matter of fact. In street population

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Speaker 1: in Atlanta, for instance, when I was working there, we

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Speaker 1: had a group of guys that would carry around homemade

354
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Speaker 1: shinks or shives as they are called in prison. They're

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Speaker 1: made out of rebar one ends wrapped with duct tape

356
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Speaker 1: as a grip, and they would puncture people multiple times

357
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Speaker 1: with these to defend themselves with Well, Dave, when you

358
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Speaker 1: withdraw this thing, you leave behind a circular defect. And

359
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,200
Speaker 1: guess what else it looks like. It looks like a

360
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Speaker 1: bullet hole. So you have to be very careful when

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Speaker 1: you're using terms. And that's what's very confusing about this case,

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Speaker 1: because we've heard the term puncture wound and we've heard

363
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Speaker 1: the term stabbing, and those are completely two different types

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Speaker 1: of injuries. So there's a bit of confusion in the

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Speaker 1: language here.

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Speaker 2: That's just amazing that we've got a belt around the net,

367
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Speaker 2: we've got puncture wounds, stab wounds, we've got a butcher

368
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Speaker 2: knife and a cleaver next to the body. We've got

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Speaker 2: the name Wonder spelled out in blood on the leg

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Speaker 2: and I noted I made a noted this because I

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Speaker 2: don't know if it means anything to you. And the

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Speaker 2: police report has said that she was bleeding on the

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Speaker 2: left side. That was actually written in the police report.

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Speaker 2: So I'm wondering, based on everything that we know about

375
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Speaker 2: the crime scene, with bleeding in her left side, with

376
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Speaker 2: several puncture wounds, what does that indicate that she was

377
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Speaker 2: alive and the heart was still pumping blood at the

378
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Speaker 2: time of the puncture wounds, the stab wounds.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's going to be an indication of that.

380
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Speaker 1: But we have to be very specific. Investigations have to

381
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Speaker 1: be very specific in their language, and this case senter's

382
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Speaker 1: a lot on language, doesn't it.

383
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it does. And we haven't even gotten to the

384
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Speaker 2: text messages coming up.

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Speaker 1: You think about when the police report is saying that

386
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Speaker 1: on her left side is are they saying to the

387
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,800
Speaker 1: underlying floor on the left aspect of the body, on

388
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Speaker 1: the left side of the body, or are they talking

389
00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:09,080
Speaker 1: about is there's on the actual surface of the body

390
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:11,240
Speaker 1: that there's a lot of blood on the left side.

391
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 1: There's a lot that can be I guess opined about

392
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:18,400
Speaker 1: relative to that. And also if you have injuries, say

393
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,000
Speaker 1: to the left side we're talking you know, maybe the

394
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:24,960
Speaker 1: left rib cage, left of the sternum, left of the midline,

395
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:27,440
Speaker 1: all of that. It can be the left arm. Is

396
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,720
Speaker 1: there an underlying pool of blood on the floor and

397
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:32,879
Speaker 1: you can have seepage that comes out of the body

398
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:36,560
Speaker 1: even after death. Well to what degree we know that

399
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 1: she was found lying on the laundry room floor, but

400
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:44,440
Speaker 1: we don't know what her actual position was. If she's

401
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:48,360
Speaker 1: left recumbent, which recumbent is a term that is used

402
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,440
Speaker 1: in medicine. So if you think about left recumbent, the

403
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:55,800
Speaker 1: individual is on their left side, and the medical professionals

404
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,399
Speaker 1: out there where the understand somebody is rotated into the

405
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,840
Speaker 1: left recumbent position. That means that the left side is depended,

406
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:03,960
Speaker 1: it's bearing the weight of the rest of the body,

407
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 1: and the right side is up in the air where

408
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,720
Speaker 1: they in what's referred to as a supine position. Supine

409
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:12,119
Speaker 1: is a fancy way of saying face up, and you

410
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 1: can appreciate the body looking as the body is looking

411
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:18,359
Speaker 1: up towards the ceiling. For instance, you can observe trauma

412
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:20,200
Speaker 1: on the left side. You can see the seepage of

413
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 1: the blood, you can see the pooling of the blood,

414
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:23,720
Speaker 1: and it might all be on the left side. But

415
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,920
Speaker 1: here's the thing. You're not going to understand any of this,

416
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,119
Speaker 1: and I mean any of this until the body is

417
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 1: thoroughly examined back at the morgue and you begin to

418
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 1: understand things about one tracks. You understand things about asphyxiation

419
00:23:38,480 --> 00:24:01,399
Speaker 1: that may have led to this woman's death. My wife

420
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:04,359
Speaker 1: likes to say a phrase on a regular basis, and

421
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 1: I've learned a lot from this phrase. She says that

422
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:11,360
Speaker 1: words are containers of power. You say something, and many

423
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,920
Speaker 1: times it'll manifest itself in your life. If you're communicating

424
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,199
Speaker 1: negative thoughts or angry thoughts and that sort of thing,

425
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 1: it'll manifest itself. And conversely, if you're saying things that

426
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 1: are kind and supportive, that's going to manifest itself. Many times,

427
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 1: your words say a lot, not just in the communication

428
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 1: between people, but they actually say a lot about you

429
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,159
Speaker 1: as a person. And I think that we've kind of

430
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 1: got an insight into this relationship with just the words

431
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:43,680
Speaker 1: there here, Dave.

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00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 2: I see a story where somebody has allegedly scrawled a

433
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 2: name in blood on a victim, or on a wall,

434
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 2: or what have you. I immediately think of the Manson murders.

435
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:59,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Lobiancas too. Yeah, yeah, Mansons, And yeah, absolutely

436
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:00,880
Speaker 1: I thought that same thing I did.

437
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 2: It's just something that for our generation that comes up

438
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,160
Speaker 2: because that was a big part of what was reported.

439
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 2: And then I think about this young couple. You know,

440
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 2: they're not old. John Wonder is thirty one years old,

441
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 2: his wife is twenty nine. They've got two children, two

442
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,119
Speaker 2: little boys, a four year old and a two year old.

443
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 2: This is their mom and dad, and even though they

444
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 2: were going through a divorce, they were cohabitating. And yet

445
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 2: here we are where a welfare check leads her dad,

446
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 2: Ashley Wonder's dad, to find her body naked from the

447
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 2: waist down. She's stabbed, she's punctured, she's got a belt

448
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,399
Speaker 2: around her neck, and the word Wonder scrawled in blood

449
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 2: on her leg. Then we find out that her husband,

450
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 2: John Wonder, Ashley Wonder's husband. Her maiden name is Earhart,

451
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 2: and oftentimes she's referred to as Ashley Earhart. But I

452
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 2: just want to make a point. They were still married,

453
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 2: they were going through a divorce, and by the way,

454
00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 2: Ashley had already made notes she was leaving Actober first,

455
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 2: she was moving out. She had another place that she

456
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 2: was going to. This was known to their friends, their employer,

457
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:09,719
Speaker 2: their family. It was no secret. So John Wonder drops

458
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 2: the kids off, doesn't take them inside, drops them off

459
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 2: the patio on the front porch, and he goes back

460
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 2: home where this takes place. We know that after he

461
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 2: left his wife with a belt around her neck, laying

462
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 2: in a pool of bloody scrawls his name Wonder on

463
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 2: her left leg, and then he leaves, but he starts

464
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 2: texting people. He starts texting family and friends. And this

465
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,360
Speaker 2: goes back to I don't know of his generational joe.

466
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 2: I tried to find if there was anybody else who

467
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 2: had done something similar, but I couldn't find any His

468
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 2: sister tried to reach out to him when they were

469
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,359
Speaker 2: did the welfare check. Immediately, family is calling family, Hey

470
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,639
Speaker 2: have you heard Have you talked to John? Have you

471
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 2: talked to Ashley? And so John's sister said that after

472
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,680
Speaker 2: she attempted to reach out to him, asking where he was,

473
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,640
Speaker 2: he allegedly responded to her, John, where are you? What's

474
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 2: going on? He wrote back this quote, sorry about the

475
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:10,160
Speaker 2: mess For the record, it's way easier and much more

476
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:15,200
Speaker 2: satisfying than you can imagine. See year round hotly smokes.

477
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:16,879
Speaker 2: He texted that to his sister.

478
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 1: That in and of itself is a real insight into

479
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 1: the workings of someone's mind. And let's keep in mind,

480
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 1: John Wonder has merely been charged. He's not convicted, he

481
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 1: hasn't been put on trial.

482
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 2: However, he texted a friend on Facebook. Now I don't

483
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 2: know if he used Facebook messengers so it was private,

484
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 2: or if he did it on the guy's wall. I

485
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 2: don't know, but John Wonder allegedly messaged a friend again

486
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 2: same time. Now, hey, Bud, sorry to make you the

487
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 2: receiver of this, but I have to share with someone.

488
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 2: I'm about to throw my phone out the windows and

489
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 2: we'll continue north to Fargo. I'm not trying to get away,

490
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,680
Speaker 2: just feel like driving far away.

491
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 1: Wow, I mean, there's so much information contained in there.

492
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 1: First off, you've got time stamps on all of these messages,

493
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 1: whether it be in a Facebook format or platform, or

494
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: if this is originating as a text message from a phone.

495
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 1: All that stuff is time stamps relative to when you

496
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 1: generated that message and perhaps your movement as well. That

497
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 1: one comment that was made relative to heading north to

498
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 1: far and it's a specific location heading to Fargo, North Dakota.

499
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 1: Now I've never made the drive, but just looking at

500
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 1: a map, if you're talking about going from KC to Fargo,

501
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 1: that's a poke, man. I mean, that's a long long way.

502
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 1: But let me back up just for a second, before

503
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 1: any text messages were generated, and we've kind of touched

504
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 1: on this idea of writing in blood. There's a little

505
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,479
Speaker 1: known group. You hear about them in movies and whatnot.

506
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: I've got several friends that are actually forensic document examiners

507
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 1: or handwriting analysts, and they live in a different world

508
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 1: than they used to because text messages and that sort

509
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 1: of thing, and people don't write as many notes as

510
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 1: they used to. But the fact that you've got this

511
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 1: word that has allegedly been scrawled on Ashley's remains there

512
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 1: on the launder floor is significant, and what will perhaps

513
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 1: happen is that detailed images will be taken of that wording.

514
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 1: I hope that they were very very careful Dave when

515
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: they were transporting her body, so that that scrawl was

516
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 1: not diminished in any way. Because when you get a

517
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 1: body back to a more, you have, first off, the

518
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: correct equipment that you need to utilize lighting this sort

519
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: of thing, and you can use a variety of different

520
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: types of cameras in order to capture that image. And

521
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 1: so when that image is captured, it'll be perhaps taken

522
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 1: to the handwriting section at the State Crime Lab. Most

523
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 1: handwriting examiners live in More within the construct of the

524
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: State Crime Labe. It's not necessarily something all happening on

525
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 1: a local level. They will look at the scrawl that

526
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 1: is written in blood and did you know that after

527
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 1: you have hit about age six, your motor skill, as

528
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 1: it is kind of connected to your brain, the way

529
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 1: you visualize thing, the relationship but your eyes, the way

530
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 1: your eyes and relationship to your hand the movement. Do

531
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 1: you know that that's all set in place by the

532
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 1: time you're about six years old and utilizing pens, crayons,

533
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 1: all that sort of stuff. And even though it might

534
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 1: evolve over a period of time, you've set down a

535
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 1: framework in the way you write. So there will be

536
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: examples of his writing, the accused. There will be examples

537
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 1: of his writing that will be brought to the handwriting

538
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: expert and they will compare his handwriting that he has generated,

539
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 1: whether it's signing papers or writing notes or anything that

540
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 1: he has generated over the years, and it will be

541
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 1: brought in and it will be actually compared to the

542
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 1: scrawl that is written on her leg to see if

543
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 1: they can confirm that it is actually him, because at

544
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 1: this point in time, you don't know. I mean, it's

545
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 1: just like you were saying, with staging the defense in

546
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 1: a case like this can say, well, somebody was trying

547
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 1: to target my defendant and they just they knew that

548
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: if they scrawled his name in blood that it would

549
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,479
Speaker 1: lead back to him, and that's something the defense attorney

550
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 1: would probably say. So that question will be asked and

551
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 1: it will have to be answered, and a handwriting expert

552
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 1: will come on the stand and make comment about that.

553
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 1: And there's two forms when you think about script writing

554
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 1: that everything is based on. There's what's referred to as

555
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 1: the Palmer school and the Zaner Blowser school. And you

556
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: can actually regionalize, you used to could You could regionalize

557
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 1: where people learned how to write regionally based upon those

558
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 1: two forms of And I'll give you an example of

559
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 1: what this looks like when you see do you remember

560
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 1: when we were in school and they were teaching you

561
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 1: how to write cursive, they would put the letters written

562
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 1: in cursive up on the board, or it would be

563
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 1: in like little placards up on the board so that

564
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 1: you could see what a capital F looked like as

565
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: opposed to a lowercase F, and it would be written

566
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 1: in its own lines. And that's how we learned to write,

567
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 1: and depended upon many times. It used to be with

568
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,719
Speaker 1: whatever region you were in in the US, that's how

569
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,479
Speaker 1: you learn to write. Zan Er Blowser was more common

570
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 1: in southern and midwestern areas of the country. But yet

571
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 1: you had the palmer, which you would find perhaps up

572
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: in the northeast. And isn't that kind of interesting that

573
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 1: you can profile the person based upon their handwriting, so

574
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 1: his motor skills that he would have learned, or whoever

575
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 1: the perpetrator is, as it applies to how he writes

576
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 1: something is going to be unique to him. Because you

577
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 1: use that framework at those two possibilities and you narrow

578
00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 1: it down how you kind of craft your own writing.

579
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 2: That's just crazy. But one thing I want to go

580
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 2: back to, Joe, you mentioned why would you go to

581
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 2: all the trouble of an autopsy when you know what

582
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 2: already has taken place? And why do you go to

583
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 2: all this trouble? I mean, you're talking about a lot

584
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 2: of effort and a lot of work, when in reality

585
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 2: it looks like we have a man who has pretty

586
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 2: much admitted by his own text messages to friends and

587
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 2: family that he has done this. He actually says this

588
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 2: to review a couple of the text messages Joe. He

589
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 2: added to that same friend on Facebook, he said that

590
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 2: he hadn't cried yet, haven't cried, but quote still feel nothing.

591
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 2: No more anxiety though, that's a plus. And then he

592
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 2: wrote this about the stones that he left by her body.

593
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 2: Apparently she had some types of stones and things that

594
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 2: people have a certain affinity for that you know, protect

595
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 2: them from different things, this new age stuff. And he said, well,

596
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 2: quote a lot of good they did you, Hun. I mean,

597
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 2: how cold is that, Joe? How cold is it to

598
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 2: point out, yeah, a lot of good they did you?

599
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. And again, when you begin to think

600
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 1: about our friends like Karen Stark, you think about how

601
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 1: they would examine this. But let's look at this from

602
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 1: a purely scientific perspective or an investigative perspective. If you're

603
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 1: mentioning these stones in particular, you're stating in a text

604
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 1: message that idolaid them out next to the body. How

605
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:23,800
Speaker 1: can we validate that statement? Well, logically, you can validate

606
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 1: it by documenting at the scene, if they are in

607
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 1: fact there, that they are present. Who would have knowledge

608
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:33,839
Speaker 1: of that? Who would know that particular stones were laid

609
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 1: out adjacent to the body. And so when you couple

610
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 1: that with and let's just get in, you know, let's

611
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 1: just go for it. Let's talk about if you've handled

612
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 1: a knife and there's blood. You've got blood on your

613
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,239
Speaker 1: hands that knife. Unless you clean it off, there's a

614
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 1: high probability you're going to leave a bloody fingerprint, a

615
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,720
Speaker 1: latent print that's behind on the handle of that knife.

616
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:58,919
Speaker 1: You could have blood perhaps on this meat cleaf, which

617
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,720
Speaker 1: has not really been a it's there ownership of the belt.

618
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 1: Whose belt is this? Why was it used? Was it

619
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 1: her belt or was it the accused belt? Is there

620
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 1: any blood on the surface of the belt, And that

621
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,280
Speaker 1: gives you an indication that if there is blood transfer

622
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 1: on that belt, particularly as if you've left behind the

623
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 1: Layton print on the belt, well what does that mean.

624
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 1: It means that she had blood on her person or

625
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,239
Speaker 1: in the immediate area. That is her blood. You could

626
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 1: type her blood and that his Perhaps the accused fingerprint

627
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,399
Speaker 1: was found in Layton blood on the surface of the belt,

628
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,319
Speaker 1: So that gives you an idea perhaps that ligature came

629
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 1: after the stabbing, or conversely, if it's absent of that,

630
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 1: prosecution might just say, well, he attempted to strangle her,

631
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:42,800
Speaker 1: he found out that wasn't going to work, so he

632
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:44,880
Speaker 1: went and retrieved any or maybe he had the knife

633
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 1: with him, and that's again a way that we can

634
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 1: try to understand the sequencing of these things.

635
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,840
Speaker 2: Back to the text messages and social media messages that

636
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 2: John Wonder allegedly posted and sent quote, I'm guessing they

637
00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 2: will be finding her body right about now. I started

638
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 2: getting calls at nine thirty am. Now, he wrote this

639
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 2: message to his friend in one of his last messages

640
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 2: before he was arrested, and I wanted to point something out.

641
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 2: Eight forty am, John Wonder drops the boys hit four

642
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 2: and two off at his mother in law's house at

643
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:20,359
Speaker 2: Ashley wonders mom's house, and he doesn't take them many

644
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 2: drops him off, runs to his house. Now he's saying,

645
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 2: they say he started getting calls at nine thirty, so

646
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 2: I'm assuming this is work calling. See why they weren't

647
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 2: at work yet. And we know that police were called

648
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 2: and went out there at ten thirty to do the

649
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:36,439
Speaker 2: welfare check. So we now have a timetable. He says

650
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 2: to this person allegedly that I'm guessing they will be

651
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 2: finding her body right about now. I've got a feeling

652
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 2: that's a pretty strong thing the prosecution would want to

653
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 2: have in evidence, right, Yeah, it is.

654
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 1: Because you're aware the individual generating that note is going

655
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 1: to have an awareness of the timeline. They're going to

656
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 1: have an awareness. And the reason they're going to have

657
00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 1: an awareness of this is that this individual has already

658
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,319
Speaker 1: stating in these text messages that he is being contacted

659
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 1: and he's offering up you know, this explanation of well,

660
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 1: they should be finding her body right about now, because

661
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 1: I have been receiving messages since this specific time. And

662
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 1: that gives you an idea of awareness, doesn't it.

663
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 2: Quote. I keep thinking about how she never screamed, just

664
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 2: took it like a champ, what a gal. To honor her,

665
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 2: I will not go out by a gunshot suicide by cop,

666
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 2: but by hopefully a similar fate as Ashley unquote he

667
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 2: wrote that about the mother of his children.

668
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that probably out of everything contained here,

669
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 1: from certainly a communication standpoint, that might be the darkest.

670
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 1: It gives you an insight, a first hand account, if

671
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 1: you will, of this woman a mother and is still

672
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,959
Speaker 1: a wife, that she just kind of slipped off into

673
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 1: the darkness as she was being brutalized. If you are

674
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:00,799
Speaker 1: anyone in the midst of a relationship ship where there

675
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 1: is in fact domestic violence going on, I urge you,

676
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 1: I plead with you reach out to somebody, and one

677
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 1: of the quickest ways to do that is the National

678
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 1: Domestic Violence Hotline, and that number is one eight hundred

679
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:18,399
Speaker 1: seven ninety nine safe. That's one eight hundred seven ninety

680
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:26,400
Speaker 1: nine seven two three three. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and

681
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: this is Bodybacks.