Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet, as a production
Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd and this
Speaker 1: is There Are No Girls on the Internet. Joey. Welcome
Speaker 1: back to the show. It has been too long, okay, Bridge,
Speaker 1: So welcome to There No Girls on the Internet, where
Speaker 1: we explore the intersection of identity, tech, social media, and
Speaker 1: the Internet. This is yet another installment of our weekly
Speaker 1: roundup of news from the Internet y'all might have missed.
Speaker 1: And before we get too into it, I should just
Speaker 1: say currently I am recording from beautiful Mazak Lawn, Mexico,
Speaker 1: to be in the path of totality for the eclipse
Speaker 1: on April eighth. The place I'm staying in is right
Speaker 1: on the beach, which is beautiful and fantastic, but right
Speaker 1: outside my window there is like fully a full band
Speaker 1: kind of roaming around playing for people on the beach.
Speaker 1: They're literally right outside of my window as we speak,
Speaker 1: and so it is a fat good time. I am
Speaker 1: the only schmuck out here trying to like record a
Speaker 1: podcast in the middle of it. So if you guys, so,
Speaker 1: if y'all hear a little music or merriment in the background,
Speaker 1: that is what's going.
Speaker 2: On sounds truly so awful and difficult for you right now.
Speaker 1: It's the worst. So I have a weird question for
Speaker 1: you. You are a little bit younger than me, so this
Speaker 1: might be something that completely your generation missed out on.
Speaker 1: Did your family ever have like a code word so
Speaker 1: that if somebody like a friend of the family had
Speaker 1: to pick you up when you were young, you would
Speaker 1: know like, oh, mom or whoever has given this person
Speaker 1: permission to be picking me up from the mall or whatever?
Speaker 3: Is this?
Speaker 1: Is this a phenomenon that you are familiar with at all?
Speaker 3: Yes, I am familiar with it.
Speaker 2: I definitely think I was kind of at the end
Speaker 2: of that phenomenon because I remember, like my mom bringing
Speaker 2: it up in conversation. I don't think we ever actually
Speaker 2: came up with the word like. I think it was
Speaker 2: just a thing that we were like, we should do this,
Speaker 2: that would be that would be safe to do.
Speaker 1: So I was re about how more and more of
Speaker 1: these AI enabled scams, where the scam is using AI technology,
Speaker 1: somebody is spoofing the voice or in some recent cases,
Speaker 1: the actual video image of a very convincing version of
Speaker 1: like your loved one and that person says they are
Speaker 1: in trouble, they've been kidnapped, they need money, and then
Speaker 1: the scam is you, you know, get a call from
Speaker 1: what you think is your loved one, your family member,
Speaker 1: your sister, your daughter, whatever, and you're so distraught that
Speaker 1: you send these strangers crypto. Meanwhile, your daughter or whatever
Speaker 1: is like perfectly safe. I have been reading about how
Speaker 1: these scams are getting more and more sophisticated, and I
Speaker 1: think it's time we bring back the family code word.
Speaker 1: So just like when you were young and your mom
Speaker 1: would tell somebody like, oh, say blah blah blah, and
Speaker 1: that's going to be the phrase that indicates that this
Speaker 1: person is safe and is actually authorized by your mom,
Speaker 1: we might need to start having family and loved one
Speaker 1: code words so that if you get that call in
Speaker 1: the middle of the night, you can say, what's our
Speaker 1: AI code word so I can make sure this is
Speaker 1: actually you.
Speaker 2: I like that, Yeah, no, I agree that stuff's freaky.
Speaker 2: I I know my mom also still like has all
Speaker 2: of us on the like find my phone thing, like
Speaker 2: on your Oh.
Speaker 3: Honestly, I know there's a.
Speaker 2: Lot of downsides of usually against the kind of constant surveillance,
Speaker 2: but Uh, you know, it's also nice.
Speaker 1: To be honest, right, I mean, Mark, if your mom
Speaker 1: gets a Panis call from Joey in the middle of
Speaker 1: the night, they can be like, oh, they're not kidnapped,
Speaker 1: They're in Brooklyn, where they always are, where they ought me.
Speaker 1: I am a big fan of the code phrase and
Speaker 1: the code word in general. I have a secret code
Speaker 1: word for if.
Speaker 3: So.
Speaker 1: One of my like very closely held values is that
Speaker 1: when you ever get a feeling that's like I'm I
Speaker 1: want to leave wherever I am for whatever reason, you
Speaker 1: should just leave, like, no questions asked. And everybody who
Speaker 1: is in my little IRL friend circle knows this about me.
Speaker 1: And so I actually have a code word or a
Speaker 1: code phrase that if I say that, it means like
Speaker 1: it's time to GTFO immediately. I'm a big fan of
Speaker 1: the of the of the pre agreed upon code phrase
Speaker 1: or code word. I like that too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think especially I don't know, definitely had that
Speaker 2: situation where U surely I'm just like.
Speaker 4: Ah, so do think you guys want to leave suon
Speaker 4: like I'm gonna go through.
Speaker 1: All that, there's nothing worse and really wanting to leave
Speaker 1: a situation that you're in but not being able to
Speaker 1: speak freely about that want and so you just have
Speaker 1: to sort of be like yeah, well and like do
Speaker 1: a bunch of voice inflections and hope the other person
Speaker 1: picks up on it. Okay, so let's get into this.
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about this, but it was a
Speaker 1: little close to home, and so I kind of like
Speaker 1: waited because I'm sort of like processing my feelings. So
Speaker 1: last week, the Francis Scott Bridge and Baltimore collapsed after
Speaker 1: a container ship collided with it. It was a huge tragedy.
Speaker 1: I live in DC, which is a little under an
Speaker 1: hour from Baltimore, so really big news here on the
Speaker 1: mid Atlantic region. Sadly, a group of six immigrant workers
Speaker 1: from Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras fell to their
Speaker 1: deaths in this tragedy. There was a really thoughtful piece
Speaker 1: in CNN this week about how their deaths really should
Speaker 1: be sparking a conversation about the need for more protection,
Speaker 1: specifically for foreign born construction workers, which we'll link to
Speaker 1: in the show notes. I think it's really a must
Speaker 1: read all about how just how little protections and support
Speaker 1: our country offers these people who do so much for us,
Speaker 1: and so definitely read that piece that was really eye
Speaker 1: opening to me. But I say this to say I
Speaker 1: am really disgusted to see how this tragedy has become
Speaker 1: just yet another thing to spread racist conspiracy theories about.
Speaker 1: I'm sure I've said this one hundred times on the
Speaker 1: show now, but as awful as it was, Twitter before
Speaker 1: Elon Musk wasn't like all rainbows and sunshine. I don't
Speaker 1: want to make it seem like that, but it was
Speaker 1: a place where you could reasonably get updates in real
Speaker 1: time on breaking news or disasters or emergencies like this one.
Speaker 1: So living in the area, I can tell you that,
Speaker 1: like Twitter was simply not a place that you could
Speaker 1: go to to figure out what was going on in
Speaker 1: real time during an emergency. And I guess I was
Speaker 1: just really feeling the loss of that platform as a
Speaker 1: way to really stay informed about things that are happening
Speaker 1: in your community, in your neighborhood, in your neck of
Speaker 1: the woods.
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2: I feel like with this story, the first kind of
Speaker 2: stories that I was hearing about it coming out were
Speaker 2: more like, oh, there are these conspiracy theories around this
Speaker 2: terrible thing that happened, and not just like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: this terrible thing happened. Like just the rate of which
Speaker 2: the conspiracy theories like became a part of the news.
Speaker 3: Cycle was very fast and very concerning.
Speaker 1: Yes, I mean it pains me that conspiracy theories are
Speaker 1: the main thing that people are talking about, Not labor protections,
Speaker 1: not that people who lost their lives, not how we
Speaker 1: can prevent that from happening again, not you know what's
Speaker 1: going to happen to that bridge, like the impacts, And
Speaker 1: it just goes to show how conspiracy theories just take
Speaker 1: the oxygen out of the room. They completely shift the conversation.
Speaker 1: So the high number of things we absolutely should be
Speaker 1: talking about, we're not talking about that because we're too
Speaker 1: busy debunking all of this nonsense that people who have
Speaker 1: huge platforms are spreading. So instead of Twitter being this
Speaker 1: place where you can figure out what's going on in
Speaker 1: real time, you have instead people with verified, big platforms
Speaker 1: spreading lies and hate. During an active life or death emergency,
Speaker 1: you had suspected sex trafficker Andrew Tate saying that it
Speaker 1: was a cyber attack. Alex Owns conspiracy theorists replying to
Speaker 1: Andrew Tate saying, oh, yeah, it looks deliberate to me,
Speaker 1: despite there being no indication that that is the case.
Speaker 1: And can you guess what Utah State Rep. Phil Lyman
Speaker 1: blamed this tragedy.
Speaker 2: On I'm sure he had a very sane and normal
Speaker 2: answer that was totally totally on track with what what
Speaker 2: actually happened.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was talking about the need for more robust
Speaker 1: infrastructure in this country. Oh wait, no, sorry, I have
Speaker 1: that wrong. He blamed DEI. Of course black people. He
Speaker 1: took to Twitter to say, this is what happens when
Speaker 1: you have governors who prioritize diversity over the well being
Speaker 1: and security of citizens. So this has sort of become
Speaker 1: the new party line that DEI or Diversity, Equity and
Speaker 1: Inclusion can do anything. It somehow caused this bridge to collapse.
Speaker 1: I saw a thread that included seemingly just like pictures
Speaker 1: of black people and black women that they said, we're
Speaker 1: like loosely associated with the Port of Baltimore as the
Speaker 1: sort of smoking gun that DEI was to blame because look,
Speaker 1: here are some pictures of the headshots of black people
Speaker 1: who I am saying, I am making a spacious link
Speaker 1: to the Port of Baltimore or go They are to
Speaker 1: blame for this, for this tragedy, and it also just
Speaker 1: really angers me to see how this has shifted onto
Speaker 1: Baltimore's mayor, Brandon Scott, who is like a young black man.
Speaker 1: This very popular extremist Twitter account clipped a video of
Speaker 1: that mayor speaking out a presser with this caption, This
Speaker 1: is Baltimore's DEI mayor commenting on the collapse to Francis
Speaker 1: Scott keep Bridge, how can someone be a DEI mayor?
Speaker 1: Like again, it's like, I feel like I am.
Speaker 2: Voting if not diversity equitian inclusion bridget you know.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. It is like do this. People
Speaker 1: know how someone becomes a mayor. You are elected as
Speaker 1: the mayor, not appointed. You can't, like DEI your way
Speaker 1: into being mayor. Never mind the fact that this mayor
Speaker 1: of Baltimore, he was like he won by a landslide.
Speaker 1: I think it was like seventy percent of the vote.
Speaker 1: And also Baltimore is like sixty two percent black. The
Speaker 1: residents of Baltimore are like mostly black. So like this
Speaker 1: idea that somehow it's d I. I just I mean,
Speaker 1: it's so obvious. What they really mean is like they're
Speaker 1: saying dei, but they mean it. What they're really saying
Speaker 1: is like, it's a black mayor. Look at this black
Speaker 1: mayor messing everything up. So yeah, it's fairly obvious that
Speaker 1: they what they mean when they say dei mayor is
Speaker 1: a black mayor, and they probably really mean a slur,
Speaker 1: but they can't come right out and say that, so
Speaker 1: they're just saying dei instead because they can't say what
Speaker 1: they actually want to say, which I think is fairly obvious.
Speaker 1: But I will say it is not all bad because
Speaker 1: in true black folks on the internet fashion, we have
Speaker 1: reclaimed this and made a joke out of it. Like,
Speaker 1: if they are going to be using dei as a
Speaker 1: pretty obvious stand in for the racist slur they wish
Speaker 1: they could openly call us, we may as well have
Speaker 1: a little bit of fun with it. Right on Twitter,
Speaker 1: user Petty Lapone put it wonderfully, saying black people have
Speaker 1: already reclaimed the word dei. That's why I love us,
Speaker 1: and this is why they hate us because all jokes
Speaker 1: aside resilience is our inheritance, stay pressed bigots. And so
Speaker 1: now you have black folks on Twitter really using the
Speaker 1: word dei the way that these bigots and extremists are
Speaker 1: pretty obviously using it themselves. You have pour a little
Speaker 1: out for the deies who ain't here, or de eyes
Speaker 1: in Paris. D e hyghes with attitude. And this is
Speaker 1: honestly why I love us, because we will always find
Speaker 1: a way to repackage someone else's nonsense and use it
Speaker 1: against them. I love this, And not that long ago,
Speaker 1: I was actually on a flight where we had an
Speaker 1: all black flight crew. Like the captain was black. The
Speaker 1: other captain I guess there's two, was also black. All
Speaker 1: the light attendants were black. And the captain got on
Speaker 1: the announcements before the flight and like introduced himself. He
Speaker 1: gave deck a very long introduction. He was like, I
Speaker 1: used to be in the Air Force. I'm from Texas.
Speaker 1: I love Texas. And then before our flight took off,
Speaker 1: I kid you not, he came out of the cockpit
Speaker 1: and shook the hand of every single person who was
Speaker 1: like ready to take this flight, and introduced himself. And
Speaker 1: part of me was like, this has to have been
Speaker 1: a response to all of the nonsense that people like
Speaker 1: Elon Musk are supewing about how black pilots or women
Speaker 1: pilots they only got there because of DEI or affirmative action.
Speaker 1: And if you get on a plane and see a
Speaker 1: black pilot, you better pray or whatever your God is,
Speaker 1: that you're gonna make it because it's not looking good.
Speaker 1: And had it just really struck me how hard it
Speaker 1: is to just try to do your job when all
Speaker 1: of this is out there in the climate. How hard
Speaker 1: it would be to be like up pilot who is
Speaker 1: a black person, up against this cultural stereotype that you
Speaker 1: cannot you cannot do your job well because of your identity,
Speaker 1: And how how fucked up it is that this pilot
Speaker 1: would have to go so above and beyond to project
Speaker 1: this this this competence and to like introduce himself and
Speaker 1: to be like, I'm a black man, I am I've
Speaker 1: got this, I have a background, I was in the
Speaker 1: Air Force, whatever whatever, to demonstrate that he knows what
Speaker 1: he's doing. Because of the bigotry and extremism of people
Speaker 1: like Elon Musk. I was just you know, watching that
Speaker 1: pressor from the mayor of Baltimore having to deal with
Speaker 1: these people misconstrue his words simply because of his identity
Speaker 1: while he is actively dealing with a life or death
Speaker 1: crisis in his community. It just really drove home what
Speaker 1: an unfair, messed up dynamic this is. But this is
Speaker 1: what they want. I think this is like the trip
Speaker 1: of racism. You know, if it reminds me of this
Speaker 1: Tony Morrison quot. The function, the very serious function of racism,
Speaker 1: is distraction. It keeps you from doing your work. It
Speaker 1: keeps you explaining over and over again your reason for being.
Speaker 1: Somebody says you have no language, and you spend twenty
Speaker 1: years proving that you do. Somebody says your head isn't
Speaker 1: shaped properly, so you have scientists working on the fact
Speaker 1: that it is. Somebody says you have no art, so
Speaker 1: you dredge that up. Somebody says you have no kingdom,
Speaker 1: so you dredge that up. None of this is necessary.
Speaker 1: There will always be one more thing, and that is thought, Gee,
Speaker 1: what if this mayor, who was already dealing with something
Speaker 1: pretty heavy and pretty complicated, could just focus on that
Speaker 1: and not have to respond to extremists and racists and
Speaker 1: bigots and grifters who are accusing him of it's not
Speaker 1: even clear what other than being a black person and
Speaker 1: distracting him from this very important work that he needs
Speaker 1: to be doing work that happens to be life or death.
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely, it's the acronyms or the problem.
Speaker 2: I think we need to stop calling things like acronyms.
Speaker 3: Like first it was like CRT.
Speaker 1: Yes, we need we need long, boring names that do
Speaker 1: not easily lend themselves to act to like snappy acronyms
Speaker 1: that scare people. That's what we need to any kind
Speaker 1: of initiative, This is my new plan, any kind of
Speaker 1: initiative that we push going forward. We needs to have
Speaker 1: a long, boring, complicated name but does not easily lend
Speaker 1: itself to a snappy acronym.
Speaker 3: Exactly.
Speaker 1: Let's take a quick break at our back. Okay, so
Speaker 1: we have to talk about this Amazon update because I
Speaker 1: feel like ever since Mike and I did kind of
Speaker 1: a contentious episode on self checkout, which I still feel
Speaker 1: very strongly about, Mike and I have kind of dropped
Speaker 1: it and come to a I guess a somewhat respectful
Speaker 1: mutual on that debate. Ockets we'll call it that. But
Speaker 1: I feel like ever since we talked about that, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I still think I'm right, he still thinks he's right.
Speaker 1: We've just decided to table it for now, although maybe
Speaker 1: this is a good reminder I should kick that one
Speaker 1: back up again. So Ever, since our somewhat contentious episode
Speaker 1: on self checkout in retail stores, I feel like we've
Speaker 1: kind of become the Shopping Technology Update podcast, which I'm
Speaker 1: actually okay with because you know what, it's one of
Speaker 1: those things where it's a way that everybody comes in
Speaker 1: contact with technology. I feel like retail experiences demonstrate that,
Speaker 1: like technology really matters, and technology decisions and policies really
Speaker 1: shape your everyday experiences. And we have another update for y'all.
Speaker 1: So you might have heard about Amazon retail grocery stores
Speaker 1: using technology that basically allows shoppers to just walk out
Speaker 1: of the store with their purchases as a kind of
Speaker 1: frictionless checkout as opposed to waiting in line. Well, now
Speaker 1: Amazon is phasing that out, though they say that it
Speaker 1: will stick around in some UK markets and in some
Speaker 1: smaller like Bodega stores, in favor of what they are
Speaker 1: calling dash cart, which is sort of like a self
Speaker 1: checkout device installed on the shopping cart. So, Joey, have
Speaker 1: you ever used just walk out shopping tech? Or maybe
Speaker 1: add an Amazon Fresh or a Whole Food which we
Speaker 1: know Amazon owns whole foods.
Speaker 3: I have not.
Speaker 2: I'm already somebody that you know is anxious about whether
Speaker 2: it looks like I'm stealing things or whatever in grocery
Speaker 2: stores to begin with.
Speaker 3: So I am not somebody who does that.
Speaker 1: Yes, we got so many emails from listeners saying the
Speaker 1: exact same thing that, like, because of some part of
Speaker 1: their identity or some perceived part of their identity, they
Speaker 1: always are like, I know I'm gonna get stopped. I
Speaker 1: know somebody's gonna think like, I never do that because
Speaker 1: I know I don't want to have that interaction because
Speaker 1: of whatever thing somebody's looking at me and thinking, oh,
Speaker 1: this person stealing, which.
Speaker 3: For the record, like I'm very white.
Speaker 2: I just have bad anxiety which makes me think that
Speaker 2: I'm about to get in trouble.
Speaker 3: Like all the time.
Speaker 2: I am on the anti self checkout side of the debate,
Speaker 2: I will say.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the right side of history.
Speaker 3: Joey, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1: Also look at us two little anxious ansies. Thanks too,
Speaker 1: little anxie. Because I'm the same way I feel. I
Speaker 1: will just be sitting there and be like someone somewhere
Speaker 1: is upset with me. I've done something wrong. To somebody.
Speaker 1: I don't know exactly what, but I just have this
Speaker 1: feeling like something is a miss. I'll just sit with
Speaker 1: this feeling forever and just quietly vibrate with anxiety here
Speaker 1: for no real reason.
Speaker 2: I so like a tweetersothing recently about like oh yeah,
Speaker 2: I just like constantly think that, like I accidentally killed
Speaker 2: someone and just forgot about it.
Speaker 1: Yes, I was like, yeah, I am the same.
Speaker 3: I feel like there's a lot of us in like
Speaker 3: the podcasting world.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's why you're a podcaster probably, yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So Amazon is phasing out these fricks checkout lines, which
Speaker 1: people like me and Joey would never even use in
Speaker 1: the first place. If you've never used those friction lists,
Speaker 1: just walk out check out lines. This is how Amazon
Speaker 1: says they worked. Customers entered Fresh stores using Amazon One
Speaker 1: Palm recognition, the app, or a credit card. Amazon said
Speaker 1: that sensors, cameras, and deep learning tools caught whatever items
Speaker 1: customers took off the shelf automatically charging them. So you
Speaker 1: could just go into the store, pick up a bunch
Speaker 1: of stuff, walk out, and then you'll just be charged
Speaker 1: automatically on your credit card. So I remember, I don't
Speaker 1: make it either. I just I wouldn't. I just would
Speaker 1: never feel comfortable doing that.
Speaker 3: So why are they okay?
Speaker 2: And again, listeners, I am somebody who like I don't
Speaker 2: even use like the facial recognition on my phone to
Speaker 2: like open my phone, Like.
Speaker 3: I just don't. I'm like, that's too many things watching me.
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 3: This is gonna end badly for you.
Speaker 1: Well, speaking of too many things watching you. So I
Speaker 1: remember when Amazon first unveiled this technology and they were
Speaker 1: talking about it like it was this cutting age space
Speaker 1: age AI technol. Come to find out, it's just humans
Speaker 1: watching humans shop, just like in a regular grocery store,
Speaker 1: only the humans have been moved off site and they
Speaker 1: just like watch you while you shop and charge you
Speaker 1: for whatever you pick up and leave with. So as
Speaker 1: much as Amazon wanted to pretend like this was like
Speaker 1: space age deep learning tech, it's just humans, just like
Speaker 1: a regular store. According to a new report from the Information,
Speaker 1: about seven hundred of every one thousand just walk out
Speaker 1: sales had to be reviewed by Amazon's team in India
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty two. Internally, Amazon wanted just fifty out
Speaker 1: of one thousand sales to get a many will check.
Speaker 1: So Amazon is kind of like vaguely disputing this. It's
Speaker 1: like they still want this technology that they have obviously
Speaker 1: realized is a flop to be considered like cutting edge
Speaker 1: and effective even as they back away from its use.
Speaker 1: They're being a little bit cagy that the role that
Speaker 1: human workers in India played in their just walkout system.
Speaker 1: The information says very clearly that it was about one
Speaker 1: thousand workers in e India who were watching people shop.
Speaker 1: But Amazon is disputing that kind of vaguely, basically saying
Speaker 1: that the human workers were part of it, but they
Speaker 1: were just sort of supporting the technology to do the
Speaker 1: work of checking people out. I don't really believe what
Speaker 1: Amazon is saying. An Amazon spokesperson confirmed that it uses
Speaker 1: human moderators, but declined to say how many people it
Speaker 1: employs in these roles according to the information. And I
Speaker 1: guess I say all of this to say that it does,
Speaker 1: to me show how these technologies and these use cases
Speaker 1: for things like AI and deep learning and all of that,
Speaker 1: a lot of it is just ends up being smoke
Speaker 1: in mirrors that rely on humans, potentially humans who are
Speaker 1: like probably not very well paid at that to solve
Speaker 1: a problem that was never really a problem to begin with, right,
Speaker 1: Like it is like exploitation dressed up as tech innovation
Speaker 1: to me.
Speaker 2: Right, It's just this is like the latest symptom of
Speaker 2: us just living in this weird tech dystopia where rather
Speaker 2: than using knowledge you to make things easier for us,
Speaker 2: we're just gonna Like I feel like the you know,
Speaker 2: the powers that be that figure out these kind of whatever,
Speaker 2: Like the people in the corporate systems that make the
Speaker 2: decisions to have these things happen, they like are so
Speaker 2: obsessed with this like aesthetic of having us in this
Speaker 2: like Star Trek future where everything is so automated and
Speaker 2: like whatever, but like nobody wants to think about what
Speaker 2: the root of those things are supposed to be, which
Speaker 2: is just like helping us make our lives easier, and
Speaker 2: instead we get this and wow, I don't know it
Speaker 2: is so it's it's crazy how so many AI related
Speaker 2: stories lately.
Speaker 3: Too.
Speaker 2: I feel like the kind of the twist at the
Speaker 2: end is like, oh, it's still human beings having to
Speaker 2: do most of the work or the labor or whatever.
Speaker 3: It's you know, I hope this is the end of
Speaker 3: self checkout.
Speaker 1: Wait.
Speaker 3: This is the other thing though, too, because like the
Speaker 3: whole thing with worker.
Speaker 2: Even if you're going at like a grocery store doing
Speaker 2: self checkout, Like if you get anything with alcoholic, you
Speaker 2: need to like have somebody come over and like make
Speaker 2: sure you're able to buy that. There's certain things that
Speaker 2: like I always end up having some issue where they're like, no,
Speaker 2: you accidentally pick something up and put it back down,
Speaker 2: and now we're counting it as two different things because
Speaker 2: it's weighed different the second time, Like like these.
Speaker 3: Things don't work to begin with.
Speaker 1: Well, I guess that's my thing is that I want
Speaker 1: to get to a place where when we are being
Speaker 1: sold some sort of AI technology or tool that we're
Speaker 1: being told is going to make our lives easier, are
Speaker 1: more convenient, or happier, that we really do a little
Speaker 1: more work at looking behind the curtain of how we
Speaker 1: are being told that is going to work. And I'm
Speaker 1: a peo willing to bet that somewhere down the line
Speaker 1: are exploited humans. You know, we get so many AI
Speaker 1: related pitches for people to come on the podcast and
Speaker 1: talk about their like AI innovation, and so many of
Speaker 1: them I'm like, I don't know about this, Like some
Speaker 1: of them are so scammy and so yeah, I just
Speaker 1: I want us to stop eating this up when Amazon
Speaker 1: says they're going to be unveiling some cool futuristic AI thing,
Speaker 1: really being willing to look under the hood and really
Speaker 1: see how cool or how convenient or how good this
Speaker 1: thing is actually going to be, and not just like
Speaker 1: letting them sell it to us the way that they
Speaker 1: think it should be sold.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely would recommend I think, like looking at
Speaker 2: AI and like how AI is being used right now
Speaker 2: as a labor issue, and looking at how human labor
Speaker 2: plays into the whole kind of system of whatever technology
Speaker 2: you know we're talking about at a given time. I
Speaker 2: think that kind of really like changes like changes the
Speaker 2: game and changes how you see the like effectiveness of
Speaker 2: this kind of technology, because again, this is just another
Speaker 2: case of like it's not really saving time or money
Speaker 2: or energy or anything. It's just you know, adding more
Speaker 2: surveillance measures and then needing the same work exactly.
Speaker 1: And it's funny that you say this because actually, just
Speaker 1: today a bunch of artists, like two hundred high profile musicians,
Speaker 1: including Billy Eilish if you wonder, Nicki Minaj, all signed
Speaker 1: this letter basically saying exactly that this letter issued by
Speaker 1: the Artist Rights Alliance and Advocacy group, which makes the
Speaker 1: demand that technology companies pledge to not develop AI tools
Speaker 1: that replace human songwriters and artists. And so I think,
Speaker 1: like you're exactly right. When you think about this as
Speaker 1: a labor issue or an exploitation issue, it becomes really
Speaker 1: clear tech companies and tech billionaires shouldn't be able to
Speaker 1: get richer from the exploitation of humans and have us
Speaker 1: all applaud it and call it visionary speaking of tech
Speaker 1: being used to make all of our lives just a
Speaker 1: little bit more miserable. Have you ever had this experience
Speaker 1: where you're I mean, I guess we work together, so
Speaker 1: maybe you don't want to say maybe the email is
Speaker 1: coming from me, and you're like, oh, I don't want
Speaker 1: to say that Bridget actually is the person who sends
Speaker 1: me these annoying emails. But you know that feeling when
Speaker 1: you are trying to relax is after hours and you
Speaker 1: get like a slack or a work email in the
Speaker 1: evening and you feel like pressure to reply even though
Speaker 1: it's eight pm, nine pm, ten pm.
Speaker 3: Exactly when it's will nine pm out a Thursday night.
Speaker 1: What are you trying to say? Joey for listeners, we
Speaker 1: are recording at almost nine pm Joey's time.
Speaker 3: Yes, I am not in Mexico. I don't have to
Speaker 3: deal with the Maria again behind me. You know.
Speaker 2: Fortunately I got to sit quiet in my Brooklyn apartment.
Speaker 2: But meno, yes, I do know this, this feeling never
Speaker 2: for you, of course, but you know, okay, I will
Speaker 2: say I've had to deal with this a couple of
Speaker 2: times in my in my professional career.
Speaker 1: Like if we're saying never from me, even though I
Speaker 1: suspect that's not one hundred percent true, Well maybe we
Speaker 1: should live to California, because California is following places like
Speaker 1: Spain and France by introducing AB twenty seven to fifty one,
Speaker 1: which is being called the right to Disconnect proposition. Basically,
Speaker 1: it's in very early stages, but if it were pasted,
Speaker 1: it would require every California employer to lay out exactly
Speaker 1: what a person's hours are and make sure that they
Speaker 1: are not required to respond to work related communications outside
Speaker 1: of those hours while they're off the clock. So time
Speaker 1: periods in which a salaried employee might have to work
Speaker 1: longer hours would need to be explicitly laid out in
Speaker 1: their contract. There are exceptions for like actual work emergencies.
Speaker 1: So in case you're wondering how this would all be enforced, well,
Speaker 1: this is from n. Gadget, who writes the Department of
Speaker 1: Labor would monitor adherents and find companies a minimum of
Speaker 1: one hundred dollars for wrongdoing, whether that's forcing employees to
Speaker 1: be on zoom their inbox, answering texts, or monitoring slacks
Speaker 1: when they are not getting paid to do so. I
Speaker 1: do think it's fitting that California, which has created many
Speaker 1: of these technologies, it's also the state that introduces how
Speaker 1: we make it sustainable and update our protections for the
Speaker 1: times we live in and the world that we've created.
Speaker 1: That is from California State Assemblyman Matt Haley, who introduced
Speaker 1: this legislation. So, as somebody who has been in that
Speaker 1: the same position sometimes or you have somebody who will
Speaker 1: not stop messaging you outside of work hours and just
Speaker 1: expects you to be online all the time, often unpaid,
Speaker 1: I actually like this. What do you think of a legislation?
Speaker 2: No, I agree, I think this is really great. I
Speaker 2: think especially you know in.
Speaker 3: Our current world where like a lot.
Speaker 2: Of people myself included, and like YouTube bridge it like
Speaker 2: we all kind of work remotely, so sometimes hours aren't
Speaker 2: as set and sown and there aren't like you know,
Speaker 2: people have been talking about this since the kind of
Speaker 2: beginning of the pandemic, but like the sort of blurring
Speaker 2: the lines between our work life and our home life
Speaker 2: has also led to kind of a blurring of like
Speaker 2: what is your work time, what is your time that
Speaker 2: you're supposed to be doing your job, what is your
Speaker 2: just like kind of normal everyday life.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I definitely.
Speaker 2: Think this is super great and good on California for
Speaker 2: doing this. Hope it kind of spreads across they're the
Speaker 2: rest of the of the country. I mean, I think
Speaker 2: I personally, I am very invested in this issue in particular, and.
Speaker 3: I think it's super important.
Speaker 2: I'm you know, here at iHeart, I'm a part of
Speaker 2: our podcast Producers Union, and you know, one of the
Speaker 2: issues we were working on is making sure that.
Speaker 3: We have some sort of like limitations, you.
Speaker 2: Know, boundaries in place so that people are working within
Speaker 2: you know, the normal workday hours and there's compensation and
Speaker 2: people are expected to work outside that because that does
Speaker 2: of course happen in the podcast industry and a lot
Speaker 2: of other industries, particularly in media production. But yeah, I
Speaker 2: mean a theme of this episodes of bar has been,
Speaker 2: you know, making sure that people are compensated and respected
Speaker 2: for their own you know, the.
Speaker 3: Labor that they're providing.
Speaker 2: And I think this is another example of like just
Speaker 2: making sure that as kind of the nature of work changes,
Speaker 2: those expectations are also like changing with that.
Speaker 1: Yes a hundred times. Yes, absolutely. There's a really good
Speaker 1: episode of the podcast You're Wrong About with an Helen Peter.
Speaker 1: The episode is called how Email took Over the World.
Speaker 1: And I should say, like I don't, I mean, this
Speaker 1: is a peek into my own psyche, but like I
Speaker 1: have a really hard time with professional communication, Like I
Speaker 1: hate email. My inbox is like very difficult for me
Speaker 1: to keep up with. It's something that is that brings
Speaker 1: me like quite a bit of anxiety. And I could
Speaker 1: spend an hour not even replying to an email, just
Speaker 1: like stressing about it for no reason. Like if I
Speaker 1: allowed myself, I would spend hours and hours and hours
Speaker 1: a day just like thinking about my email inbox. And
Speaker 1: so that episode of You're Wrong About really was the
Speaker 1: first time that I realized, like, oh, work didn't always
Speaker 1: used to be like this. There were actually very deliberate
Speaker 1: changes made in technology, particularly around technology like Gmail, that
Speaker 1: led us all to be like, oh, well, you need
Speaker 1: to be answering your email as soon as it comes in,
Speaker 1: no matter what time it is, Like, there was a
Speaker 1: time where that was not that case. If you're an
Speaker 1: older listener who was in the workforce before all of
Speaker 1: these tech tools were ubiquitous, you probably enjoyed a very
Speaker 1: different early work life than somebody like from my generation,
Speaker 1: who you know pretty much always had that expectation. And
Speaker 1: it was the first time that I was like, wait,
Speaker 1: maybe this is not actually how we are supposed to work.
Speaker 1: Maybe the idea that I need to stop everything no
Speaker 1: matter what I'm doing, whether I'm on the clock or off,
Speaker 1: and respond to somebody's email or slack or ping that
Speaker 1: I didn't ask for. Frankly, maybe that actually isn't the
Speaker 1: best way to get work done. So I definitely recommend
Speaker 1: that episode, and I think I think this is good.
Speaker 1: I think this legislation really does get us closer to
Speaker 1: the realities of what work looks like in twenty twenty four,
Speaker 1: and the labor protections and carve outs that need to
Speaker 1: be considered for working people in twenty twenty four. I
Speaker 1: will say one thing about this legislation that concerns me
Speaker 1: is that they say they have a carve out for emergencies.
Speaker 1: I have worked a lot of different places, and I
Speaker 1: can tell you that a lot of different people have
Speaker 1: different understandings of what is or it's not an emergency.
Speaker 1: And so I think that cannot be left up to
Speaker 1: workplaces or employers, because I have definitely workplaces where you know,
Speaker 1: you've got that one person who like, oh, everything is
Speaker 1: an emergency, and I'm like, maybe we work in marketing, Like,
Speaker 1: what are you talking about. I'm an air traffic controller,
Speaker 1: I'm a podcaster. What is this emergency?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: How how big of an emergency could it be?
Speaker 2: Exactly like, nobody's gonna die the episode comes out an
Speaker 2: hour later.
Speaker 3: Yes, because I hope not.
Speaker 2: I'm truly sorry if anybody's life has been severely affected
Speaker 2: by the fact that it took me a little bit
Speaker 2: longer to edit than.
Speaker 1: You don't know what's writing on this. You know are
Speaker 1: on the line.
Speaker 3: More.
Speaker 1: After a quick break, let's get right back into it. Okay,
Speaker 1: so this is really interesting. Are you on twitch at all?
Speaker 3: I'm not on twitch.
Speaker 1: Now, for listeners who use the live streaming platform Twitch,
Speaker 1: you might have noticed Twitch getting a little bit, for
Speaker 1: lack of a better word, pornier. Now. A new study
Speaker 1: published in the Journal of Humanities and Social Science Communications
Speaker 1: kind of confirms that researchers analyzed two thousand live streams
Speaker 1: and found a pretty concerning trend that women are more
Speaker 1: frequently and intensely self sexualizing than men live streamers on Twitch,
Speaker 1: hinting on a broader pattern that they call pornification in
Speaker 1: digital content to lure audiences. The authors of the study
Speaker 1: told psych Post Quote this topic intrigued us due to
Speaker 1: the growing popularity of live streaming platforms like Twitch tv
Speaker 1: and the public concern regarding the sexualized culture that may
Speaker 1: arise in these environments. We wanted to explore how this
Speaker 1: culture specifically manifest based on the gender of the streamers.
Speaker 1: Our study aimed to shed light on the nature and
Speaker 1: extent of sexualized culture in deeply masculinized environments such as
Speaker 1: live stoating platforms. We examined how some streamers resort to
Speaker 1: the quantification of their content to attract audiences and the
Speaker 1: potential implications for the perception and behavior of users, especially
Speaker 1: teenagers who have yet to internalize their beliefs about sexuality.
Speaker 1: So basically, these researchers evaluated live streams based on accommodation
Speaker 1: of factors including clothing, exposed body parts, the focus of
Speaker 1: the image, posture, and behaviors that imply sexualization. It sounds
Speaker 1: like their results were pretty clear. The results showed a
Speaker 1: clear gender disparity in self sexualization. While the platform boasted
Speaker 1: a number of male streamers overall, female streamers were found
Speaker 1: to engage in self sexualization to a much greater extent
Speaker 1: and intensity. Only two male streamers out of the entire
Speaker 1: sample were categorized as hyper sexual compared to three hundred
Speaker 1: and eighty nine female streamers. Similarly, only five male streamers
Speaker 1: out of the entire sample were categorized as sexual compared
Speaker 1: to one hundred and ninety female streamers. So what does
Speaker 1: this look like? How is it manifesting for these streamers?
Speaker 1: While the researchers found that women's streamers were more likely
Speaker 1: to wear revealing clothing, focus the camera on their entire
Speaker 1: bodies as opposed to just their face, exhibit behaviors or
Speaker 1: postures considered seductive or sexually explicit, and in their findings
Speaker 1: they underscore a notable difference in content presentation, with female
Speaker 1: streamers leveraging their physical appearance and sexuality to attract viewership.
Speaker 1: In contrast, male streamers typically focus their streams on gaming,
Speaker 1: proless or conversations or other non sexualized content, seldom employing
Speaker 1: their physical appearance as the primary means of engagement quote,
Speaker 1: while men focus their content on talking or playing video games.
Speaker 1: It was found that the majority of streamers who used
Speaker 1: less clothing, stimulated sexual acts, or displayed suggestive poses were women.
Speaker 1: So I don't spend a ton of time on Twitch.
Speaker 1: I'm there a little bit, but not a lot. But
Speaker 1: it is something that I guess I would say that
Speaker 1: I've noticed a bit, and I don't want to be
Speaker 1: clear that I think that everybody should be able to
Speaker 1: decide and be in control of how they show up
Speaker 1: online and off. I also think that it's worth noting
Speaker 1: that I think that historically different kinds of traditionally marginalized
Speaker 1: people have been sort of labeled sexualized or hyper sexual
Speaker 1: just by showing up, whether they're doing something sexual or not.
Speaker 1: Like I've heard on Instagram, a lot of people who
Speaker 1: have bigger bodies are consistently having their content moderated as
Speaker 1: being sexually explicit, even if it's just like them in
Speaker 1: a swimsuit, them existing, right, there's something about their body
Speaker 1: where Instagram moderation has decided like, oh, this is hyper
Speaker 1: sexual or this is sexually explicit. That said, I think
Speaker 1: we have to be honest that we're in a digital
Speaker 1: climate where you know, things are really engagement based, right,
Speaker 1: and so like getting eyeballs, getting clicks, getting more subscribers,
Speaker 1: getting more listeners, getting more viewers, whatever, that can be
Speaker 1: the difference between succeeding or not and financially succeeding or not. Right,
Speaker 1: And so it makes me wonder if it is really
Speaker 1: possible for women to be deciding for themselves in a
Speaker 1: meaningful way how they want to show up on these platforms, right, Like,
Speaker 1: if the main way to compete if you are a
Speaker 1: woman on Twitch is self sexualization, how much agency can
Speaker 1: these women's streamers really be exercising in that dynamic?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally agree, I think also, And like I said,
Speaker 2: like I personally, like I'm not on Twitch a lot,
Speaker 2: I have some friends that use it more.
Speaker 3: I'm just not a big video game person.
Speaker 2: But like I have seen on TikTok, and Instagram and
Speaker 2: like a lot of these other social media apps where
Speaker 2: the same sort of thing is happening, particularly TikTok since
Speaker 2: it's such a visual app, and there are these also
Speaker 2: like streaming, Uh, like the lives are kind of the
Speaker 2: essentially like lives are essentially the same as like streaming.
Speaker 2: Like I feel like I'm seeing that happen on there too,
Speaker 2: and I'm seeing more of this conversation about I don't know.
Speaker 2: Something that I see that I think always sort of
Speaker 2: concerns me is sometimes there's certain trends or you know,
Speaker 2: things that come across as kind of suggestive or like
Speaker 2: openly explicit, and I'll see like teenagers doing those trends,
Speaker 2: and it's rough because and on one hand, yeah, I
Speaker 2: do think like people should be allowed to show up
Speaker 2: online how they want to. And I think that a
Speaker 2: lot of cases, like a lot of these people don't
Speaker 2: even necessarily realize like what if there's like an implication
Speaker 2: or like yeah, or or the really thinking through the
Speaker 2: whole like this is gonna.
Speaker 3: Be online now, Like I don't know, I've put.
Speaker 2: Stuff online that I've later regretted because I've had like, oh,
Speaker 2: maybe that was it?
Speaker 1: Like whatever I don't know.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's it's definitely.
Speaker 2: I think there is this pressure on particularly young women
Speaker 2: to yeah, to.
Speaker 3: Come across a certain way, to do things that.
Speaker 2: Are like a little bit more like yeah, like in
Speaker 2: that kind of porn of a gation category. And I
Speaker 2: wish there was a way to have a conversation about
Speaker 2: that without demonizing the people who are doing it, and
Speaker 2: also like acknowledging that maybe it's not great for us,
Speaker 2: like as a whole, and not great for like the
Speaker 2: people doing it for the people like that are being
Speaker 2: pressured to act a certain way or dress a certain
Speaker 2: way or whatever online all the time.
Speaker 1: You really nailed how complex this issue is. You know.
Speaker 1: Your your comments about TikTok remind me a couple of
Speaker 1: months ago about the conversation around women, adult women on
Speaker 1: TikTok who were making non player content. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: I remember that.
Speaker 3: Yes, that was like through all of these lives.
Speaker 2: And again I think like some of the people, a
Speaker 2: lot of people doing this were like adult women.
Speaker 3: Some people, I think, just because of.
Speaker 2: The nature of TikTok, like a lot of teenagers end
Speaker 2: up getting a lot of followings on them.
Speaker 3: Sometimes it's like people that I'm like, I don't know if.
Speaker 2: You should be doing that, Like I think you're going to,
Speaker 2: I don't know, Like it'll be younger people that'll come
Speaker 2: out and make certain NPC comment con tent or whatever
Speaker 2: or whatever sort of like trend.
Speaker 3: It's hidden under it that a.
Speaker 2: Lot of times also just happen to be related to
Speaker 2: like porn stuff or like weird.
Speaker 3: Fetish as always, it is the.
Speaker 2: You know, the the catch twenty two of being like
Speaker 2: a woman or somebody who's seen as a woman on
Speaker 2: the internet is like anything you do is going to
Speaker 2: be seen as pornographics. Who is the other kind of
Speaker 2: side of it, where like, you know, I feel like
Speaker 2: you always like I'm always finding out about like oh,
Speaker 2: actually this trend was a fetish thing or this whatever,
Speaker 2: This was a fetish thing whatever, And it's like it's
Speaker 2: it's impossible to exist online. But yeah, but at the
Speaker 2: same time, there is definitely a pressure to kind of
Speaker 2: fall into this this portification, the sexualization or whatever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So for folks who don't know what the
Speaker 1: NPC non player character stuff is, basically you had these people,
Speaker 1: mostly adults, acting like the non player characters in video games,
Speaker 1: and so they would be doing these repetitive most and
Speaker 1: saying these repetitive things like there's one woman who would
Speaker 1: say like, oh oh ice cream, yum yum, things like that.
Speaker 1: People I think rightly realize like, oh, this is like
Speaker 1: fetish content, it's like sexual content. The people who are
Speaker 1: engaging in this were adults. But as you said, when
Speaker 1: you are sharing an internet landscape with children, when you
Speaker 1: have children and young people and adults all in one
Speaker 1: mixed bag of Internet landscape community, you have adults who
Speaker 1: are consensually engaging in what is kind of fetish content,
Speaker 1: you know, consensually, you have that becoming a trend. You
Speaker 1: have young people who might not realize the implications of
Speaker 1: what they're doing or might not even recognize it as
Speaker 1: sexualized or fetish content, because a lot of that fetish
Speaker 1: content on social media is like if I didn't if
Speaker 1: I didn't really know, I maybe wouldn't know it's fetish content.
Speaker 1: And then you have young people sometimes unwittingly engaging in
Speaker 1: what is fetish content on social media because of the
Speaker 1: adults who were doing it consensually. And that's not a
Speaker 1: good dynamic either, And so it is it is very complicated.
Speaker 1: But I agree we need to start by asking the
Speaker 1: question about how we're all sharing an Internet together in
Speaker 1: a way that is not going to be harmful, in
Speaker 1: a way that is not going to lead to people,
Speaker 1: particularly young people, feeling pressured into sexualizing themselves online because
Speaker 1: like that's what they have been told, is like what
Speaker 1: they should be doing. And you know, it is really
Speaker 1: tough though. Like I was happy in conversation about this
Speaker 1: with another podcaster about just how different it is being
Speaker 1: on video versus being a podcaster being mostly audio, Like
Speaker 1: it's a totally different beast. I hate being on video.
Speaker 1: I hate video content because showing up like visually is
Speaker 1: so different for me. You know, I'm really comfortable being
Speaker 1: a disembodied voice in somebody's head or somebody's ears, But
Speaker 1: when I'm on video, I just find myself thinking, like,
Speaker 1: am I pretty Do I look like I'm trying too hard?
Speaker 1: Am I not trying hard enough? Like I find it
Speaker 1: really distracting. I've also found that pretty much like no
Speaker 1: matter what you do, how you show up, somebody's gonna
Speaker 1: find fault with it, or just like do whatever you want,
Speaker 1: because like, either way someone's gonna have a problem with that.
Speaker 1: So who cares?
Speaker 2: Yeah, quick call out to whoever on TikTok left to
Speaker 2: comment on one of my videos one time saying that
Speaker 2: my voice was annoying.
Speaker 3: I think about that all the time, because again.
Speaker 1: I tell you have a wonderful voice.
Speaker 3: I talk for a thank you, bridget thank you.
Speaker 2: I've had enough people tell me that I have a
Speaker 2: nice voice, so I you know, but you know what, whoever,
Speaker 2: But I totally get that. I think, like especially, I
Speaker 2: am somebody who uses TikTok a lot and uses like
Speaker 2: social uh visual social media platforms a lot, and honestly,
Speaker 2: it is something I think about a lot, and I
Speaker 2: think especially as somebody who like exists in the weird
Speaker 2: gender gray area of a lot of people see my
Speaker 2: videos without context and like assume I'm a woman. I
Speaker 2: still have that kind of attachment with that identity in
Speaker 2: some way.
Speaker 3: This is disclaimer I have to say.
Speaker 2: Every time I talk about gender, I'm talking about how
Speaker 2: I see my own gender.
Speaker 3: Obviously this is not the same for like every trans person, but.
Speaker 2: I am constantly thinking about my appearance and how I'm
Speaker 2: seen and I'm not I know that, like certain things
Speaker 2: that I'll talk about, people aren't gonna take it as seriously.
Speaker 2: If I don't look very well put together or like
Speaker 2: conventionally attractive. I think, especially because somebody who's like not
Speaker 2: traditionally feminine that I especially know that.
Speaker 3: But yeah, no, it's it's it is stressful, I think.
Speaker 2: Like again, like I I I love TikTok, I love
Speaker 2: making social media like video content, like that's just kind
Speaker 2: of a thing that I do as like hobby. But
Speaker 2: also like I've had to take breaks before just because
Speaker 2: like the stress of it has like like I've talked
Speaker 2: to my therapists about this, like where it's like I think,
Speaker 2: just showing up online and realizing how many eyes are
Speaker 2: on you and sometimes seeing just the like the number
Speaker 2: of people that have seen a certain video or seen
Speaker 2: a post or whatever, and realizing like like you're a
Speaker 2: public facing person without really being a public figure or whatever,
Speaker 2: and that could be really really stressful.
Speaker 3: Because yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Mean we all, like everybody deals with body image issues
Speaker 2: and whatever, and like I'm no different.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that you're so right that basically,
Speaker 1: if you are someone other than a cisgender man, people
Speaker 1: on the internet feel very comfortable policing how you look,
Speaker 1: policing your voice, policing really everything about your physical presentation
Speaker 1: and it is exhausting, like you just wanted to make
Speaker 1: a stupid TikTok video and here you are thinking like, oh,
Speaker 1: is my voice this way? Is my hair this way?
Speaker 1: And was my makeup this way? Like it just is
Speaker 1: a lot, and like it's a lot to deal with
Speaker 1: just to want to have a platform or build a
Speaker 1: platform or put your thoughts out into the world, you know, definitely,
Speaker 1: So it sounds like Twitch might actually be trying to
Speaker 1: do something to combat thisification that these researchers found, because
Speaker 1: in late March, Twitch actually released a new rule banning
Speaker 1: quote content that focuses on intimate body parts for a
Speaker 1: prolonged period of time. Verge reported that this move is,
Speaker 1: without a doubt, a targeted response to a new Twitch
Speaker 1: trend wherein streamers project gameplay onto green screened parts of
Speaker 1: their body, specifically their like breasts or their booty. So
Speaker 1: I checked out one of these streams and literally like
Speaker 1: it'll be a video game green screen projected onto a
Speaker 1: close up of somebody's booty cheeks. Verge reports that this
Speaker 1: specific trend was popularized by Morgpie, a creator known for
Speaker 1: pushing the boundaries of Twitch's streaming policies. She has pretty
Speaker 1: wild stuff, like she wore a green screen cutout shirt,
Speaker 1: making her head and her chests the only part of
Speaker 1: her body that a viewer could see. This behavior would
Speaker 1: now be a bannable offense. I don't know. Maybe this
Speaker 1: is me being immature, but I actually kind of loved
Speaker 1: this content, Like it feels like it felt like camp
Speaker 1: to me, which I liked, and part of me is like,
Speaker 1: if twitch is already full of corny dudes who only
Speaker 1: want to like objectify you and look at your body,
Speaker 1: you may as well own it and have it be
Speaker 1: like funny and kind of cheeky. You know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, that I that sounds really funny. Actually see
Speaker 4: this is and then that's that's the like double and
Speaker 4: short of all this is like I don't know, I
Speaker 4: don't feel like the solution should be let's police people's bodies.
Speaker 3: Further, like this doesn't really seem to I don't know.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure what the right answer is here, though, but.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is that is kind of funny. I feel
Speaker 2: like there should be like a joke there about you know,
Speaker 2: the whole meme about like gen Z can't watch like
Speaker 2: TV shows. There has to be like people will make
Speaker 2: fun of the like tiktoks, where like half the screen
Speaker 2: is a video game and then it's somebody and that
Speaker 2: is a clip from a TV show, and there are
Speaker 2: people will be like, oh, like I'm having like we're
Speaker 2: we're breaking up, but we're gen z and they'll like
Speaker 2: be holding up a phone that's playing a video game
Speaker 2: and then.
Speaker 3: Be talking over it.
Speaker 2: I took a very long time to explain TikTok trend,
Speaker 2: but I feel like there's some joke there about the.
Speaker 1: Totally. I love those videos, you know, I'm I'm with you,
Speaker 1: like I don't want to shame anybody. And also more
Speaker 1: Pie's video content seems hilarious to me. So if you
Speaker 1: are an adult and you want to be self sexualizing yourself,
Speaker 1: even if you want to be doing that because you're
Speaker 1: gonna get more money or more streams or more clicks
Speaker 1: or more engagement, I say more power to you. Like,
Speaker 1: I am not someone who thinks that just because somebody
Speaker 1: is deciding to self sexualize online, that person can't also
Speaker 1: have interesting or smart things to say, not at all.
Speaker 1: I just don't want there to be a dynamic where
Speaker 1: self sexualization is the only way to get people to
Speaker 1: pay attention to what you're saying, especially given how young
Speaker 1: pitch as user bases. In twenty twenty two, almost half
Speaker 1: forty one percent of pitches users were aged sixteen to
Speaker 1: twenty four, so it is like a very young user base.
Speaker 1: So like you, I do think this is an important
Speaker 1: conversation and like a complicated one, but I think that
Speaker 1: we got to get to a place where we're having
Speaker 1: converse about what true body autonomy looks like online outside
Speaker 1: of this like outside pressure to generate engagement, what that
Speaker 1: truly looks like in space is.
Speaker 3: Like Twitch definitely.
Speaker 1: So before we end, I did want to give a
Speaker 1: little Andrew Huberman update. We did a full, a two
Speaker 1: part deep dive into doctor Andrew Huberman, podcaster neuroscientist. I
Speaker 1: won't say disgraced neuroscientists, but like slightly besmirched neuroscientist. I
Speaker 1: guess I will say thanks to everybody who listened and
Speaker 1: wrote in. I don't know why this continues to be
Speaker 1: something I am fixated on. Honestly, we did two parts,
Speaker 1: two episodes on Huberman. I can honestly do three more.
Speaker 1: I will not subject you listeners to that unless you're
Speaker 1: someone who's listening who wants to talk more about it,
Speaker 1: in which case let me know. Email me. I have
Speaker 1: a ton more to say. But in case you were wondering,
Speaker 1: Huberman has not really said anything about that bombshell New
Speaker 1: York magpiece. However, I did notice that he has continued
Speaker 1: to post his content as normal. I guess dude is
Speaker 1: going to be posting through it. I understand, I get it. However,
Speaker 1: I did notice that he's been sneaking alike on comments
Speaker 1: on Instagram that say some version of like just ignore
Speaker 1: the haters. Who cares what they say? So he's lurking.
Speaker 1: He's out there. We've seen it. Andrew, we know you're
Speaker 1: in the comments, lurking, getting your little social media dopamine
Speaker 1: via Instagram comments.
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, been there, man?
Speaker 2: I who among us?
Speaker 1: So we ask for folks who listened to Huberman's podcast
Speaker 1: or were fans of him in some iteration to write
Speaker 1: in and let us know what they thought, and we
Speaker 1: got some very interesting responses. I think this email really
Speaker 1: summed up nicely the experience of sort of being taken
Speaker 1: by Huberman's work at first and sort of getting value
Speaker 1: out of it, and then maybe realizing like, maybe this
Speaker 1: isn't on theF and Up. This listener writes, I got
Speaker 1: into Huberman after he was a guest on a skateboarding
Speaker 1: podcast in twenty twenty one. I really identified with having
Speaker 1: a similar background, getting into trouble as a kid, having
Speaker 1: a rough family life at home, getting into skating, and
Speaker 1: eventually finding healthy positive outlets. Hughes was my guy, right.
Speaker 1: I got a lot out of the Deep Dive episodes
Speaker 1: about ADHD, sleep and alcohol. It played a large part
Speaker 1: in cutting back excessive drinking. I redeveloped mid pandemic, but
Speaker 1: I couldn't shake the ick feeling I got as the
Speaker 1: supplement ads became more prevalent, bleeding into the conversations with
Speaker 1: his guest. Here we is talking for three hours about
Speaker 1: peer reviewed research and experts and blah blah blah blah blah,
Speaker 1: but its number one sponsor is a supplement company he
Speaker 1: consults for. While I do take some supplements, I know
Speaker 1: full well they're on unregulated industry and whatever the label says,
Speaker 1: it's only a suggestion. So that was a whack red flag.
Speaker 1: I was also noticing he didn't have many women on
Speaker 1: US guests. Weird since the image he pushes is educating
Speaker 1: people on holistic health while nearly ignoring half of the population.
Speaker 1: My skepticism spiked when I saw he was on Joe
Speaker 1: Rogan and then peeked when I saw he was on
Speaker 1: Jordan Peterson. I thought hees was my guy, but it
Speaker 1: turns out he was just another Manisphere grifter d bag
Speaker 1: who's just climbing the grift ladder. I really bought into
Speaker 1: this whole, not like other boys vibe at first. It's
Speaker 1: satisfying as f to see my suspicions confirmed. Fuck these
Speaker 1: grifters forever all the same, always have been. And to
Speaker 1: this person, thank you for writing this email. I feel
Speaker 1: like this listener really said what I was trying to
Speaker 1: say in two very long winded podcast episodes in like
Speaker 1: a paragraph.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, definitely and totally agree with everything I've said,
Speaker 2: And like, I think this gets into like a really
Speaker 2: big part of it too, which was what you were
Speaker 2: talking about like a lot of people, And it sounds
Speaker 2: like the listener that wrote in this this email talked
Speaker 2: about like a lot of us, especially during you know,
Speaker 2: the the Heights of the Pandemic and Lockdown, like really
Speaker 2: got into these sort of content creators.
Speaker 1: I watched a.
Speaker 2: Lot of like you know, I got really into like
Speaker 2: a lot of little like tyro TikTok and stuff like that,
Speaker 2: like over the like in the middle of blockdown a
Speaker 2: lot of that too, Like you know, I'm not going
Speaker 2: to get into the whole like you know, New Age
Speaker 2: all right, pipeline stuff. But you know, I think we
Speaker 2: keep seeing more and more of these people that I've
Speaker 2: like gained these huge followings from things that seem innocent
Speaker 2: and like they're trying to help people live like more relaxed, fuller,
Speaker 2: healthier lives. Like we're seeing these people sort of show
Speaker 2: their true colors now, like over the past couple of years,
Speaker 2: and it can be really like disappointing, especially if, like
Speaker 2: you know, like the world is a fucking hard place
Speaker 2: to deal with and a lot of us are just
Speaker 2: kind of looking for whatever help we can, and it
Speaker 2: sucks to see somebody like this take advantage of the
Speaker 2: fact that like so many of us are just like
Speaker 2: there's so much bullshit out there we have to deal
Speaker 2: with on a day to day basis, And yeah, it's disappointing,
Speaker 2: but yeah, fuck these scripters.
Speaker 1: Yes, as this listener put it, fuck these gripters all
Speaker 1: the same, always have well Joey, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for helping us make sense of this news. As always,
Speaker 1: where can folks keep up with all the cool non
Speaker 1: grift stuff that you are up to? I mean, uh,
Speaker 1: there might be some grifts in there. I don't know,
Speaker 1: no promises, but I do.
Speaker 3: I do try to avoid grifting when I can.
Speaker 2: You can follow me on Instagram slash what remains of
Speaker 2: Twitter at.
Speaker 3: Pat not Pratt. That's p A P T n O
Speaker 3: T P r A T t H.
Speaker 2: I still get to make up of a diety of
Speaker 2: the other Twitter replacements things.
Speaker 3: That have come up yet, but TVD will be there soon. Yeah.
Speaker 3: As always, Bridget, it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1: The pleasure is all mine and thanks to all of
Speaker 1: you for listening. I will see you on the Internet.
Speaker 1: If you're looking for ways to support the show, check
Speaker 1: out our work store at tangoti dot com. Slash store
Speaker 1: a story about an interesting thing in tech, or just
Speaker 1: want to say hi. You can read us at Hello
Speaker 1: at tangody dot com. You can also find transcripts for
Speaker 1: today's episode at tengody dot com. There Are No Girls
Speaker 1: on the Internet was created by me Bridget tod It's
Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative edited by Joey
Speaker 1: pat Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is
Speaker 1: our producer and sound engineer. Michael Almado is our contributing producer.
Speaker 1: I'm your host, bridget Todd. If you want to help
Speaker 1: us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For
Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.