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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey are you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind?

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Speaker 2: My name is Robert.

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Speaker 3: Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and we're back with part

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Speaker 3: two of our series on mud. Now. In the last episode,

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Speaker 3: we talked about some sort of definitional constraints on the

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Speaker 3: idea of mud, and yes, it is the mud you're

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Speaker 3: thinking of, as in wet soil, typically composed of small

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Speaker 3: particles of the silt or clay particle size variety, But

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Speaker 3: we also talked about mud in the sort of geohistory

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Speaker 3: of Earth, in the history of how the continents were

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Speaker 3: colonized by early plants and animals terrestrial life, and how

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Speaker 3: the presence of mud was sort of was sort of

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Speaker 3: driven by the presence of plants on Earth's continents, and

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Speaker 3: then how the build up of mud on the continents

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Speaker 3: from there sort of shaped the way the continents developed.

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Speaker 3: But before that, we also talked about a passage in

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Speaker 3: The Fairy Queen, which is a late sixteenth century English

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Speaker 3: epic poem by the poet Edmund Spencer in which the

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Speaker 3: author talks about his belief that the mud of the

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Speaker 3: Nile and maybe just mud in general spawns monsters, and

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Speaker 3: I knew we were not done with the idea of

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Speaker 3: monsters that grow out of mud. Surely there's going to

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Speaker 3: be a lot of that going around. And Rob, I

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Speaker 3: think you had one as well, didn't you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I actually looked into this a little bit last

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Speaker 2: year because I worked a mud monster into the script

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Speaker 2: I wrote for Thirteen Days of Halloween last year, and

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Speaker 2: I was looking for inspiration regarding mud monsters, and at

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Speaker 2: least at the time, I didn't find as many as

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Speaker 2: I thought I would, But I did find one really

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Speaker 2: interesting one. This one is a yokai from Japanese traditions,

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Speaker 2: and it's non is the doughra Tabo. This name means

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Speaker 2: either mud man or rice paddy man, and this yokai

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Speaker 2: is generally described and depicted as a humanoid made out

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Speaker 2: of mud, or at least a torso of a humanoid

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Speaker 2: made out of mud, emerging from the mud of a

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Speaker 2: rice patty, grasping with its arms and staring out through

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Speaker 2: a single eye in its head as it wails at

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Speaker 2: the night.

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Speaker 3: It's brutal looking. It's got a kind of mud skeleton

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Speaker 3: like you can see the ribs at least.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a frightening looking yokai, that's for sure. Of course,

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Speaker 2: frightening in yokai doesn't necessarily mean it's going to try

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Speaker 2: to kill you. And well that's how it basically breaks

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Speaker 2: down in this one. I have a really fun yochai

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Speaker 2: book that my son and I read last year. This

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Speaker 2: is from Heroko Yoda and Matt Alt titled Yokai Attack.

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Speaker 2: It's a fun little book. They has some great illustrations,

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Speaker 2: and they point out that the doughro Tabo is not

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Speaker 2: generally believed to be dangerous. It cries and frightens those

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Speaker 2: who encounter it, but that's about it. Some traditions say

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Speaker 2: that it originated as a man who lost his hard

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Speaker 2: won farmland and now haunting the rice fields, cries for

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Speaker 2: its return in the.

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Speaker 3: Night, wait the return of the fields, like as the

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Speaker 3: mud monster. He wants to now again be the rightful

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Speaker 3: owner of the fields.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know, it's like this was my place

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Speaker 2: and now you've taken it from me, you know, basic

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Speaker 2: haunting one oh one. Right. But the authors here also

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Speaker 2: share that the Doro Tabo's origins go back at least

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Speaker 2: as far as Sekan Toriyama's famous eighteenth century Yokai book

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Speaker 2: Tales of Monsters Then and Now, And while it might

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Speaker 2: be based on pre existing folk tales, they think it's

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Speaker 2: more likely the creation of Toriyama himself. And yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: one of these things where it's the frightenings barid. Here

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Speaker 2: loses some of its appeal when it seems that it

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Speaker 2: might have been a little more than the embodiment of

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Speaker 2: a crude sexual metaphor to stick a pole in the

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Speaker 2: rice patty. So maybe its origins are less spooky and

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Speaker 2: more just kind of skeazy. But still, and the thing is,

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Speaker 2: you can see that too if you look at some

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Speaker 2: of these illustrations. I mean, it's the monster's appearance is

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Speaker 2: vaguely phallic, and the authors point out that Saykan may

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Speaker 2: have been referencing brothels that were located north of Edo

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Speaker 2: Castle at the time. But whatever the road to get there,

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Speaker 2: the result is a pretty cool looking mud monster.

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Speaker 3: Now, while we're on the topic of the intersection between

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Speaker 3: mud and monsters, there is a movie example that I

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Speaker 3: know we have to talk about. It's one not of

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Speaker 3: a monster made of mud, but of a hero who

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Speaker 3: must defeat a monster by using mud and your horror

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Speaker 3: movie geeks out there, I know you you already know

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Speaker 3: the one we're thinking of. It occurs in the transition

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Speaker 3: to the third act in the original Predator, the movie

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Speaker 3: starring Arnold Schwarzenegger and basically every other guy with muscles

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Speaker 3: that you could think of in nineteen eighty seven. So,

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Speaker 3: I know a lot of you have probably seen this movie,

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Speaker 3: but just in case you have, ut I'll explain the

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Speaker 3: setup to the mud scene. So the premise of the

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Speaker 3: movie is that Arnold Schwarzenegger is leading a group of

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Speaker 3: private military contractors on a hit for the CIA in

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Speaker 3: the jungle somewhere in Central America. Unbeknownst to them, they

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Speaker 3: just happen to be jumping right into the hunting grounds

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Speaker 3: of an alien from another planet who likes to come

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Speaker 3: to war zones on Earth to hunt humans for sport.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he likes it hot, he likes it violent, and

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Speaker 2: that's why he's heer.

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Speaker 3: That's right. And I always took it to mean that

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Speaker 3: the Predator seeks out war zones because it's like, you know,

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Speaker 3: the humans aren't going to notice as much that people

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Speaker 3: are going missing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's always a lot of there's already distress there's

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Speaker 2: already people vanishing. It can get in and do its

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Speaker 2: thing without having to worry about stirring up the locals

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Speaker 2: too much.

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Speaker 3: Oh but it's also because the predator wants to hunt

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Speaker 3: like the toughest, like armed humans. Like he's specifically looking

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Speaker 3: for humans of the Arnold Schwarzenegger with a machine gun variety. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: so in this movie, the alien has all kinds of

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Speaker 3: technology that gives the alien an advantage over humans. So,

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Speaker 3: for example, it can put on a cloaking device that

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Speaker 3: makes it nearly invisible to the naked eye. But it

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Speaker 3: also has a huge advantage in that instead of just

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Speaker 3: seeing the world in the visible spectrum of light like

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Speaker 3: we do, it sees in infrared, so the body heat

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Speaker 3: of a living organism really pops out of the background,

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Speaker 3: making any warm blooded animal easy to track in the forest.

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Speaker 3: So by the end of the second act of the movie,

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Speaker 3: this alien has trophy hunted Arnold Schwarzenegger's entire team. Only

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Speaker 3: Arnold is left, and just when you think he's done for,

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Speaker 3: he ends up he's running away from the alien. He

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Speaker 3: ends up crawling on his belly across a muddy river bank,

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Speaker 3: so that his entire body ends up covered in mud.

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Speaker 3: And I will note that the mud. I was just

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Speaker 3: thinking back on the scene, it does appear to have

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Speaker 3: a lot of clay sized particles. I think that's a

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Speaker 3: clay rich mud.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it does look look very clay rich.

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Speaker 3: But anyway, so yeah, Arnold Schwarzenegger ends up total. He's

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Speaker 3: totally covered in mud. He's lying there on the river

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Speaker 3: bank waiting for the predator to finish him off, and

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Speaker 3: to his surprise, suddenly it seems like this alien hunter

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Speaker 3: can't see him. The mud has made him invisible to

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Speaker 3: the alien So finally he has an advantage to even

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Speaker 3: the playing field against this enemy with overwhelming technology, and

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Speaker 3: sort of that sets up the big conflict in the

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Speaker 3: third act. It's a great twist. I remember when I

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Speaker 3: first saw the movie as a kid, I thought it

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Speaker 3: was genius.

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Speaker 2: It's pretty great, and it's been very influential because you

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Speaker 2: see this either directly referenced in so many films to

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Speaker 2: come afterwards, or films will find sort of a new

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Speaker 2: way to do the same thing, Like our hero accidentally

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Speaker 2: finds some sort of protection from from some sort of

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Speaker 2: an enemy, or you know, accidentally finds this key strategy

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Speaker 2: that they can employ against said enemy.

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Speaker 3: Now, while if I remember correctly, I think nobody in

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Speaker 3: the movie actually explains how this works. You're just left

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Speaker 3: to sort of figure it out for yourself. But the

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Speaker 3: way it is presumed to work is that by covering

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Speaker 3: his body in mud, Arnold Schwarzenegger here has masked his

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Speaker 3: the heat signature of his body because it's now the

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Speaker 3: mud is the same temperature as the rest of the environment,

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Speaker 3: so he just blends in.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, now, this is a scene that's a lot of

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Speaker 2: fun to dissect, and maybe maybe almost too fun to dissect,

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Speaker 2: Like you can get a little too wrapped up and

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Speaker 2: trying to break down whether this will work or not,

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Speaker 2: and you have to at the end of the day

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Speaker 2: remind yourself, well, we need to experience it through the

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Speaker 2: you know, the cinematic excitement of the scene. But still,

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Speaker 2: there are a couple of key conversations about this. I

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Speaker 2: found one that was really interesting that I had not

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Speaker 2: run across before from a book titled The Sensory Modes

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Speaker 2: of Animal Rhetorics by Alexy Parrish, and at one point

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Speaker 2: in the book, Parish examines this scene, and it seems

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Speaker 2: to have a mostly high opinion of the sequence He

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Speaker 2: points out that quote, infrared radiation is nearly impossible to

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Speaker 2: detect through any amount of water, so the wet mud

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Speaker 2: masks Dutch's heat signature. Dutch is the character that Arnold

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Speaker 2: plays from the Predator once his high tech mass becomes

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Speaker 2: damaged in one of the earlier struggles. I think one

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Speaker 2: of the it's been a while since I've seen Predator

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Speaker 2: in its entirety, but I think part of it too,

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Speaker 2: is that the Predator sees an infrared but it has

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Speaker 2: kind of like a it sees everything in infrared, and

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Speaker 2: it has some of these technological filters that can throw

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Speaker 2: on to sort of refine that a bit.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and it may it may have lost some of

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Speaker 3: its capabilities in previous combat. Yeah, I'm not sure. Though.

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Speaker 2: Now we'll come back to sort of the you know,

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Speaker 2: the science of this. I should point out though, that

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Speaker 2: I believe Parish's main interest in this is not really

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Speaker 2: about like the direct infrared radiation and thermal science of

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Speaker 2: the scenario, but he's he's more interested on this sort

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Speaker 2: of this idea of this being an interaction between two

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Speaker 2: beings with entirely different sensory understandings of the world, and

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Speaker 2: he likes this example because quote Dutch is able to

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Speaker 2: think outside his own lived experience and quickly adapt to

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Speaker 2: an alien way of sensing the world. So humans can't

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Speaker 2: detect infrared radiation without the aid of technology, and therefore

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Speaker 2: most of us are just essentially blind to this realm

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Speaker 2: of senses, the direct experience of it, certainly, but also

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Speaker 2: perhaps just sort of the idea of it. And you know,

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Speaker 2: you throw throw in a very stressful, life threatening situation

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Speaker 2: like that depicted in the movie, and you know it

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Speaker 2: adds his extra layer to it, So it's kind of

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Speaker 2: neat like that. Ultimately, the quality that Dutch has that

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Speaker 2: makes him an effective hero in the movie is not

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Speaker 2: that he has big muscles or he can blow things up.

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Speaker 2: He can do all of those things, unless those skills

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Speaker 2: seem to serve him well against other humans. But at

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Speaker 2: this point in the movie, it is essentially he's essentially

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Speaker 2: about to be killed. His only his trick to surviving

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Speaker 2: is being able to think outside of the human experience

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Speaker 2: and realize why, I'm part of its luck too. Obviously

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Speaker 2: that he just happened to get so muddy, happened to

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Speaker 2: fall into that water. But then, you know, being swift

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Speaker 2: enough to realize, Oh, this is what is happening, This

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Speaker 2: is what has given me the edge.

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Speaker 3: Yes, but I guess that brings us back to the

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Speaker 3: question of would something like this work in real life, Like,

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Speaker 3: I don't know, how would it change your infrared heat

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Speaker 3: signature to cover your body in mud?

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Speaker 2: Well, as I know a number of you out there

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Speaker 2: are familiar with this already because we have I think

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of crossover between our listeners and viewers

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Speaker 2: of the TV show MythBusters. But yeah, there is an

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Speaker 2: episode of MythBusters that busted this myth. They experimented with

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Speaker 2: a thermographic camera and they found that it would work,

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Speaker 2: but would only work for a very brief amount of

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Speaker 2: time until the mud heated up from the human body

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Speaker 2: temperature underneath it.

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Speaker 3: Hmm.

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Speaker 2: Okay, And I've seen some other analyzes that line up

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Speaker 2: with this as well, arguing that okay, it could work,

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Speaker 2: but probably not for as long as it seems to

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Speaker 2: work in the movie. Also based on how relative little

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Speaker 2: mud is involved. So I take that to mean if

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Speaker 2: Arnold aka dots here had just been completely mud monstered himself,

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Speaker 2: like he didn't even look like Arnold anymore, you could

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Speaker 2: make a better case for it working, but then it

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Speaker 2: would have looked a little silly like. Part of the

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Speaker 2: peel of the scene too, is that you know, Arnold's

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Speaker 2: face and muscles are covered with this clay like mud slime.

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Speaker 3: You can still see the muscles clearly defined, but he

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Speaker 3: looks like he's sort of covered in gray paint.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, now, Joe, I think you've seen this as well.

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Speaker 2: But the twenty twenty two film Prey cleverly adapts this,

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Speaker 2: having our hero in this movie, instead of covering themselves

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Speaker 2: with mud, they ingest a traditional medicine that it's described

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Speaker 2: as it lowers one's body temperature through medicinal means and

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Speaker 2: is able to then give the hero the same advantage

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Speaker 2: over the predator.

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Speaker 3: That was a good twist.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, now, I guess you could argue that Dutch was

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Speaker 2: also cooling his body temperature because you know, he first

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Speaker 2: jumps off a waterfall, I think, into this water. Then

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Speaker 2: he gets covered in the mud. But I can't imagine

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Speaker 2: that this on its own would have been enough to

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Speaker 2: make a difference, Like it wouldn't have really low. It's

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Speaker 2: not like he was jumping into like freezing water down there. However,

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Speaker 2: this is just occurring to me, Now, if we think

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Speaker 2: of what we see in Predator as sort of the

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Speaker 2: myth that spawned by some sort of an event that

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Speaker 2: actually happened, I could imagine a situation where Okay, Dutch

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Speaker 2: is running for his life, jumps into the cold water,

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Speaker 2: crawls through the mud, is covered with the mud, but

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Speaker 2: instead of then having a direct confrontation with the predator,

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Speaker 2: already has some distance and the predator is not able

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Speaker 2: to scan him from a distance in this short time

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Speaker 2: it takes for him to then get the rest of

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Speaker 2: the way out of range and find a place to hide.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, or in the real world scenario just has a

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Speaker 3: much thicker coating of mud, like they didn't have to

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Speaker 3: be concerned in the real world about making sure you

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Speaker 3: could still tell it was arnold.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, But then I guess you're do Like there

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Speaker 2: are all sorts of complications that arise there too, like

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Speaker 2: how much mud can you cake on your body without

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Speaker 2: it slouching off? How can you move with all that

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Speaker 2: mud on your body? So there are limitations there as well,

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Speaker 2: I think if memory serves, and it could be wrong

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Speaker 2: on this, I think in the MythBusters episode they found

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Speaker 2: that there were ways to to sort of mask your

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Speaker 2: your your heat signature, but you had to you know,

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Speaker 2: use some sort of like a thermal suit to do that.

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Speaker 3: Well, I was just thinking, if you if you make

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Speaker 3: it so that you're not giving off a visible heat signature,

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Speaker 3: wouldn't that just mean you're retaining the heat and therefore

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Speaker 3: you would get really hot?

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Speaker 2: Hmm. Well, you know, in this we're getting really into

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Speaker 2: the more and more into the thermal regulation side of

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Speaker 2: the whole scenario, which is fortunate because as we venture

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Speaker 2: into the world of real life animals that often cake

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Speaker 2: themselves in mud, wallow and mud and ultimately use mud

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Speaker 2: for other things, you don't really find animals covering themselves

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Speaker 2: in mud to mask their the their ir signature. But

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Speaker 2: we're going to look at several examples here of animals

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Speaker 2: using mud for various purposes in their lives, and I

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Speaker 2: think we're going to begin with probably the most notable example,

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Speaker 2: the most famous example of a mud loving animal.

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Speaker 3: That's right, So, one family of animals whose relationship with

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Speaker 3: mud is quite well known is the family Suidy, the

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Speaker 3: family containing all the animals commonly known as hogs, pigs, porkers,

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Speaker 3: and swine, most notably to humans, SEUs domesticus, the common

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Speaker 3: domestic pig now pigs, along with plenty of other animals

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Speaker 3: like elephants, rhinoceroses, some bovids, et cetera, wallow in mud,

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Speaker 3: and wallowing is defined as coating the body surface with mud,

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Speaker 3: often simply by lying in a pit of muddy water,

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Speaker 3: or even sort of rolling around or wiggling in a

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Speaker 3: pit of muddy water. But when I thought about it,

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Speaker 3: I realized I didn't really know why pigs wallow. My

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Speaker 3: best guess was that it had something to do with temperature,

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Speaker 3: but I didn't know. So to answer this question, I

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Speaker 3: dug up a paper, a paper in an animal behavior

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Speaker 3: journal exploring exactly the question of why pigs wallow in mud.

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Speaker 3: So the article was by Mark Braka called Review of

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Speaker 3: Wallowing in Pigs, Description of the behavior and its motivational

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Speaker 3: basis in the journal Applied Animal Behavior Science from the

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Speaker 3: year twenty eleven. And there's some interesting motivating context for

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Speaker 3: this paper, which is that it was really aimed at

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Speaker 3: informing decisions about animal welfare in a domestic context or

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Speaker 3: in agriculture, because, of course people keep pigs domestically as

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Speaker 3: a farm species, and sometimes even as pets, so to

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Speaker 3: treat them humanely means understanding what their needs are, and

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Speaker 3: it has been widely observed that pigs wallow in mud

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Speaker 3: when they can. So is this something that pigs need

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Speaker 3: to do for their well being? And if so, why

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Speaker 3: do they need to do it so? The paper consists

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Speaker 3: of a literature review the existing evidence on why domestic

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Speaker 3: pigs and related species such as wild boares coat their

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Speaker 3: bodies in mud. I guess the first question is what

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Speaker 3: does this actually look like? Well, like, when pigs and

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Speaker 3: wild pigs and bores wallow, what do they do? Bracket

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Speaker 3: writes that if a pre existing pool of mud is

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Speaker 3: not available, pigs will often make their own. They will

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Speaker 3: like dig to make their own wallow. And the pit

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Speaker 3: of mud or muddy water where pigs wallow the verb

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Speaker 3: is called a wallow the noun so it's kind of

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Speaker 3: like how you shower in the shower. They wallow in

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Speaker 3: the wallow. When a wallow is available, the pig will

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Speaker 3: usually begin by rooting, which means repeatedly pushing the snout

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Speaker 3: in and sort of rooting and digging in the mud,

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Speaker 3: and then they will enter the mud with the four

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Speaker 3: body first, headside first and then wiggle and roll around

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Speaker 3: in the mud, sometimes until much of the body, or

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Speaker 3: occasionally even the whole body is covered in mud. Now,

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Speaker 3: how much of their body they submerge in the mud

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Speaker 3: has been observed to correlate somewhat with temperature. According to

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Speaker 3: mcgloon in nineteen ninety nine, when the temperature is above freezing,

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Speaker 3: pigs will stand in the cool water. When the temperature

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Speaker 3: goes up from there, more often they will lie down

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Speaker 3: with their utters submerged in the water, And when it's

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Speaker 3: even hotter, they will sometimes like roll around and coat

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Speaker 3: most or or all even of the of the body

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Speaker 3: in mud. But more often the parts of the body

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Speaker 3: they get coated in mud are the sides and the underside.

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Speaker 3: The author says, if the wallow is deep enough and

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Speaker 3: the temperature is high enough, sometimes a sow will submerge

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Speaker 3: its entire body, so only the head and the snout

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Speaker 3: is poking out. But on hot days it's normal for

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Speaker 3: a pig to keep fifty to seventy five percent of

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Speaker 3: its body surface covered in mud. Now some observers do

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Speaker 3: note that pigs will exhibit wallowing behavior even in cold weather.

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Speaker 3: That'll come back in a bit, but they just they

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Speaker 3: clearly do it more often in hot weather. Apparently becomes

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Speaker 3: really prevalent around seventeen to twenty one degrees celsius, which

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Speaker 3: is about sixty three to seventy degrees fahrenheit. So sometimes

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Speaker 3: a pig will stand or lie down in the mud

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Speaker 3: and just hang out there. Other times the pig will

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Speaker 3: get in the mud, get a coat of the mud,

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Speaker 3: and then leave and let it evaporate as the pig

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Speaker 3: goes about its business, maybe returning later to get another coat.

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Speaker 3: Pigs are often seen scratching off their coats of dried

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Speaker 3: mud against a tree or other scratching post type object.

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Speaker 3: So you might get in the mud, get mud all

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Speaker 3: over your skin, let the mud dry, and then scratch

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Speaker 3: against a tree to get the dried mud off. But

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Speaker 3: what purpose biologically does mud wallowing serve? Well, one of

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Speaker 3: the most obvious and widely recognized benefits is thermoregulation. As

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Speaker 3: we were talking about, wallowing in mud clearly helps pigs

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Speaker 3: keep cool. Pigs actually have comparatively little in terms of

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Speaker 3: internal biological mechanisms for fighting off the heat, especially compared

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Speaker 3: to some other species. They have fewer sweat glands than humans.

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Speaker 3: For instance, and there was a paragraph in this paper

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Speaker 3: that actually made me feel so much emotion about what

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Speaker 3: it's like to be a pig, about how hot it

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Speaker 3: must be to be a pig, especially a domestic pig.

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Speaker 3: Do you mind if I read this, Rob, Yes, let's

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Speaker 3: do so. Bracho writes, for several reasons, pigs are prone

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Speaker 3: to overheating. Their sweat glands are hardly responsive to elevated temperatures,

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Speaker 3: subcutaneous fat may result in a relatively high insulation value,

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Speaker 3: and their barrel shaped body reduces body surface to body

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Speaker 3: mass ratio and this reduces heat exchange. In addition, compared

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Speaker 3: to wild boar, domesticated pigs have shorter snouts and this

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Speaker 3: reduces their ability to pant. Furthermore, while domesticated pigs have

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Speaker 3: sparse hair cover and larger ears, their ears are not

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Speaker 3: very mobile and vascularized as in the case of elephants,

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Speaker 3: and their circulatory system has a limited capacity. Finally, pigs

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Speaker 3: may be producing considerable amounts of heat e g. Due

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Speaker 3: to muscular activity and feeding, fighting and play, and very

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Speaker 3: high production levels, growing up to about one kilogram per

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Speaker 3: pig per day, producing up to thirty piglets per sow

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Speaker 3: per year. So this just sounds like pigs are busy

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Speaker 3: getting and stayin hot. It is hot to be a pig,

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Speaker 3: you need to find ways to cool off. So because

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Speaker 3: of the convergence of all these limitations and their vulnerability

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Speaker 3: to heat, pigs have to supplement their basical sort of

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Speaker 3: internal or anatomical cooling capabilities with behavioral ones. And this

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Speaker 3: could in some cases be as simple as reducing your

404
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Speaker 3: movement and seeking out shade when the sun is high,

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Speaker 3: But it also includes wallowing. So strong is a pig's

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Speaker 3: desire to wallow that in some cases, if water and

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Speaker 3: mud are not available in the pig's environment, they will

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Speaker 3: lie down against any wets they can find, or even

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Speaker 3: lie against their own feces and urine. Pigs really want

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Speaker 3: to get their skin wet. But it's interesting to consider

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Speaker 3: the complexity of how the wallowing works, like it's more

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Speaker 3: complex than simply the way we would jump in water, say,

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Speaker 3: get in the pool to cool off. We all know

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Speaker 3: that it is cooler to be in the pool than

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Speaker 3: out of the pool, and studies show this is of

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Speaker 3: course true with the puddles of mud and pig habitats,

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Speaker 3: even if they're in direct sun. But this is not

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Speaker 3: just about the time that the pig is physically in

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Speaker 3: the mud in the wallow, because if you think of

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Speaker 3: the pool analogy, when your skin is wet as you

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Speaker 3: slowly dry off, it takes a lot of energy to

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Speaker 3: turn the water clinging to your skin into water vapor,

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Speaker 3: and that results in a heat transfer from your body

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Speaker 3: to the water as it makes that costly phase transition

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Speaker 3: into vapor. So you can think of why you feel

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Speaker 3: cold after you get out of the shower, even if

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Speaker 3: the shower water was hot.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a great point and with I found

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Speaker 2: this with a child. This this period of transition between

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Speaker 2: getting out of the swimming pool and going you know,

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Speaker 2: back into the house or the room or whatever like

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Speaker 2: this is pivotal. Smaller bodies thrown into the mix as well,

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Speaker 2: because yeah, they're instantly colder when they get out of

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Speaker 2: the pool, but they cannot go back in the pool,

435
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 2: and you're gonna, i think, maybe have diminishing returns of

436
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,119
Speaker 2: trying to heap back up in the pool. And for

437
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 2: you know, again a small bodied child, this is gonna

438
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 2: be an even more dire situation. They need those towels,

439
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 2: they need to get to a warm shower somewhere as

440
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 2: they can warm back up right.

441
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 3: And this is also actually the same principle by which

442
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 3: sweat cools your body. Water evaporating from the skin makes

443
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 3: your body cooler. It's a cooling technique. But another thing

444
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 3: you might know from getting out of the pool is

445
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 3: that water drips and evaporates off of the skin pretty quickly,

446
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,879
Speaker 3: So once you leave the pool or the shower, whatever

447
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 3: it is, the cooling potent of evaporation is relatively short lived,

448
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 3: probably on the order of just minutes under a hot sun.

449
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 3: I'm reminded of a time I was hiking in a

450
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,160
Speaker 3: Big Bin National Park in Texas under you know, this

451
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 3: is a desert environment where like the sun is beating

452
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,959
Speaker 3: down and I remember I was very hot. So I

453
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 3: took like an icy water bottle that I had, and

454
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,399
Speaker 3: I poured the water just all over myself, like on

455
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 3: my head and down my back. So my shirt was

456
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 3: soaked in water, and I remember it. So I was like, okay,

457
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 3: so I'll be good. You know, I'm like wet with

458
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,679
Speaker 3: this icy water, my clothes are wet. I should be

459
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:40,640
Speaker 3: good for a while. But I don't know how long

460
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,199
Speaker 3: it was, but it felt like within fifteen minutes, I

461
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 3: was bone dry, So being wet and evaporating helps you

462
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 3: cool off, but it doesn't last that long. Here's the

463
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 3: genius of mud wallowing. These these studies unwallowing showed that

464
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 3: an animal such as a wild pig, coated in mud

465
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 3: stays wet much longer after getting out of the wallow

466
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 3: than the same animal coated in water alone. Mud keeps

467
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 3: you wet longer than water and the mud. Essentially, it

468
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,879
Speaker 3: seems like it helps create a matrix for trapping water

469
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 3: against the skin, which will still provide the benefits of

470
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 3: evaporative cooling as it dries. But the mud may take

471
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 3: hours to fully dry into a crust, while water alone

472
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 3: is gone in minutes. To read from the study here,

473
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,200
Speaker 3: quote wallowing in mud leaves a coat of mud on

474
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 3: the pig's lateral and ventral surfaces and limbs. This superficial

475
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 3: layer of caked mud assists in relieving hyperthermia through evaporation,

476
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 3: acting as a kind of quote wet suit, helping to

477
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 3: keep cool in a warm environment. Water in mud on

478
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,199
Speaker 3: the skin of a pig took two hours to evaporate

479
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 3: compared to fifteen minutes when water alone was used, and

480
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 3: the evaporation rate was seven hundred to eight hundred grams

481
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 3: per hour per meter squared. Some mud is more effective

482
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,919
Speaker 3: than clean water in temperature control because mud allows the

483
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:10,679
Speaker 3: evaporation process to continue for a longer time, so for

484
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:14,880
Speaker 3: cooling the body in hot conditions, mud is an upgrade

485
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:15,919
Speaker 3: from clean water.

486
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 2: All right, that makes sense. Yeah, it's the water just

487
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 2: flows right off here. The water evaporates, but the mud,

488
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:40,880
Speaker 2: the mud sticks.

489
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 3: So Thermoregulation seems to be the most widely accepted explanation

490
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 3: for why pigs wallow, and the one with the most

491
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 3: evidence behind it, But there are a ton of other

492
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 3: possible or partial explanations that have been offered. And one

493
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 3: reason for this is that there have been observations that

494
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 3: while pigs wallow less in cold weather, they still wallow some.

495
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 3: So if they're doing it even when it's like really

496
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 3: cold outside, it probably we must serve some purpose in addition,

497
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 3: you know, like some other purpose in addition to just

498
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 3: avoiding overheating. So what are some of the other explanations

499
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 3: that have been offered. Well, a number of them have

500
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,919
Speaker 3: to do with various types of grooming in skincare. So

501
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 3: imagine this pig has ectoparasites, on its skin. It might

502
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 3: have fleas or lice or ticks or something. The pig

503
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 3: cannot reach back and pick all these parasites off. Pig is, unfortunately,

504
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:32,159
Speaker 3: by way of evolution, stuck in barrel mode. But the

505
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 3: pig can wallow, and by getting in the mud and

506
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 3: lying in it wiggling around, wiggling around, that may kill

507
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 3: or dislodge some of those parasites. But then the benefits

508
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 3: continue even after the pig gets up out of the

509
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 3: mud and the mud dries into a crust. The pig

510
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 3: can go scratch its body against posts like trees or

511
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 3: the pin wall or whatever to remove the mud crust

512
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 3: and probably remove trapped parasites along with it.

513
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 2: Oh, I'd never thought about that.

514
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, So this has been documented as an anti parasite

515
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 3: behavior in water buffaloes. It is assumed by many to

516
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 3: serve the same function in pigs, but there's some countervailing

517
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 3: evidence that like the author here sites a study from

518
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 3: two thousand and five that looked for evidence that wallowing

519
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 3: reduced parasite loads in wild boar and actually did not

520
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 3: find any correlation. So the picture on that one seems mixed.

521
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 3: But there's also it's also been proposed that maybe having

522
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 3: a layer of mud helps protect pigs from biting insects

523
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 3: like flies and mosquitoes. That would make sense, and furthermore,

524
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 3: a layer of mud could also help provide protection against sunburn,

525
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 3: to which domestic pigs are susceptible. Domestic pigs can get sunburned.

526
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 3: Being relatively hairless and not having a lot of natural

527
00:29:55,400 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 3: skin protection against against the sun, they are vulnerable to sunburn.

528
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 3: Though I was thinking, it's interesting that usually the mud

529
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 3: ends up on the sides and the underside of the pig,

530
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 3: more so than on the back of the pig, which

531
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 3: would be the part that's in the most direct sunlight.

532
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 3: But I don't know few other possible ideas. Maybe there's

533
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 3: some kind of health benefit not related to heat. Pigs

534
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 3: have been observed to wallow more when they are suffering

535
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 3: from disease, and it's also been hypothesized that pigs wallow

536
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 3: in order to perhaps disinfect wounds, because mud in some

537
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 3: cases can have bacteriocytal properties. But this is another hypothesis

538
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 3: that was not There was found to be no correlation

539
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 3: in that same two thousand and five study that found

540
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 3: no correlation with parasites on wild boar. At least there

541
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 3: are other ideas that maybe it has some relationship to

542
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 3: sexual behavior, such as scent marking or advertising mate fitness,

543
00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 3: but this also seems uncertain. So I'd say there is

544
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 3: definitely plays a role in thermoregulation, and the fact that

545
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 3: pigs also do it when it's very cold makes it

546
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 3: seem like maybe it may have some other functions as well,

547
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 3: but we're less certain about what those are.

548
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 2: This is all fascinating. Yeah, with pigs and mud, I

549
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 2: just always I kind of just had the loose understanding

550
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 2: while they're doing it to cool down. But yeah, it

551
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 2: sounds like it's sounds like there are more dimensions to that,

552
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 2: And ultimately these additional dimensions cast light on many of

553
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 2: the various other examples of wallowing and mud behavior that

554
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 2: you see in animals. You know, and we're certainly not

555
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 2: going to get into all of these examples today, but

556
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 2: you can see how a number of these explanations can

557
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 2: and do line up with these other species.

558
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 3: Right, So you might you know, elephants, rhinoceroses, hippos, water buffalo,

559
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 3: other bovids all engage in wallowing behaviors, and to some

560
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 3: extent they probably share some of the same biological purposes.

561
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 3: In fact, there was an interesting passage I did want

562
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 3: to read from this paper about the evolution of wallowing.

563
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 3: So the author writes, quote wallowing, defined widely as covering

564
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 3: the body surface with a mud like substance, is common

565
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 3: in mammals such as cervids, carnivores and primates. Pigs, however,

566
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 3: prefer to wallow more specifically in mud, mainly for thermoregulatory

567
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 3: reasons for cooling, and in this respect it resembles mud

568
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 3: wallowing seen and other large animals giant tortoises, crocodiles, elephant, seals,

569
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 3: and in particular in the large hairless mega herbivores such

570
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 3: as elephants, rhinos, bison, and water buffalo. Pigs probably also

571
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 3: descended from a large ancestor, by contrast to, for example,

572
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 3: the horse, an odd toed ungulate, whose ancestor, the Eohippus,

573
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 3: was far smaller than his descendant. So if I get

574
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 3: what the author is going for here, it's sounds like

575
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 3: he's suggesting that it's interesting that these species that engage

576
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 3: in wallowing today tended to be things that had large

577
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 3: bodied ancestors. Obviously, having a large body means that your

578
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 3: cooling needs are more acute. And you know, a horse,

579
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 3: on the other hand, evolves from something with a small

580
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 3: body that has less acute cooling needs.

581
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:27,479
Speaker 2: That's fascinating. And yeah, the Galapagos tortoise in particular, they

582
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 2: mentioned the giant tortoises. Yeah, this is a great example.

583
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 2: I got to I mean, my family and I got

584
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 2: to go out and see some of these animals in

585
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 2: the wild. And there was one particular morning where, yeah,

586
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 2: a lot of the tortoises had not yet emerged from

587
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 2: their nightly mud. Some were just coming out, but some

588
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 2: were still just you know, firmly parked in alone in

589
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 2: this kind of wallow of mud. And it was going

590
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 2: to be maybe a little bit the morning was gonna

591
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 2: have to warm up a bit before they started coming

592
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 2: back out again.

593
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 3: But of course, the animal uses of mud are by

594
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 3: no means limited to wallowing and thermoregulation. I mean, in

595
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 3: a way you can almost think mud is not quite

596
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 3: like water, but it is close to like water in

597
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 3: that it is a material and a habitat.

598
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 2: That's right. And there are various other things that animals

599
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 2: do with mud that are worth mentioning. Here. One neat

600
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 2: place to start is geofogy. This is something that's been

601
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 2: known of an animals since at least the time of Galen,

602
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 2: and it's been known that, you know, many animals on

603
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 2: occasion will eat soil or clay or something that might

604
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 2: be considered mud. This is one of the issues in

605
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 2: talking about how animals use mud, as we fall back

606
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:45,799
Speaker 2: into the issue of definitions that we discussed in the

607
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,800
Speaker 2: first episode. What's mud, what's not mud? What is more?

608
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 2: What would you more consider silt and sand and so forth?

609
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 2: When does mud become dirt? So all of those questions

610
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 2: and uncertainties remain in effect, but at least in some

611
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 2: of these cases, animals would be eating something that you

612
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 2: might define as mud. There are three main reasons for

613
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 2: them to do this that are recognized. One is to

614
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 2: control parasites I believe indo parasites in this regard. Another

615
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 2: is for mineral contents such as iron, sodium, and magnesium

616
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,800
Speaker 2: something in the mud that they need for their diet.

617
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 2: Another factor is to help metabolize toxic compounds. You know,

618
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 2: they are various examples of this in the animal Kingdom,

619
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 2: where at least during part of a season an animal

620
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 2: bite might be forced to eat some plants that are

621
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:46,239
Speaker 2: a little rougher on the gut, and the added mud

622
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 2: or dirt into the system will help sort of balance

623
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 2: all of that out. Geophagy also factors into some human

624
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:56,879
Speaker 2: traditions as well, sometimes as a medicinal practice or other

625
00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:01,439
Speaker 2: times as part of a survival dietary substitution practice. Though

626
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 2: again we're focusing on mud here, and this ultimately goes

627
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 2: beyond just mud, So it's a stretch, I think, to

628
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 2: spend too much time on it, but mud is certainly

629
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 2: on the table in the animal Kingdom. Now. Another big one,

630
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 2: of course, is building with mud. Humans, we should note,

631
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 2: are famous for building with earth and mud is a

632
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 2: big part of that. And we're going to discuss more

633
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 2: about humans specifically in the next episode. But of course

634
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,799
Speaker 2: we're not the only animals to make our homes out

635
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 2: of mud. There are a few key examples to discuss here.

636
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 2: I think one of the most impressive, though, and one

637
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 2: that I think a lot of people, if not everyone,

638
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 2: out there, will have some experience with, is that of

639
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,320
Speaker 2: the mud dauber or the dirt dauber or the mud wasp.

640
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 3: As a child, I remember really wondering what.

641
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,360
Speaker 2: The word Dauber meant, yeah, yeah, I grew up hearing

642
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 2: of them as dirt daubers, which is kind of a

643
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:57,439
Speaker 2: silly name. And also since it's like it's mud, that's

644
00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 2: I mean, ultimately it's mud. But then the mud dries.

645
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 2: That's another one of the definitional problems here is the

646
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 2: mud mud only remains mud for a little bit and

647
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 2: then it becomes like dried mud or dirt and so forth.

648
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 2: But anyway, yeah, the mud wasp. I'll call the mud

649
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 2: the mud wasp moving forward because it sounds a little

650
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,399
Speaker 2: more serious. These are various species of I believe, two

651
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 2: different families of parasitoid wasps. I definitely encounter these a

652
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 2: lot during my own childhood. The resulting nests kind of

653
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 2: look like, imagine a like a pan flute composed of

654
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,319
Speaker 2: cylinders that instead of being made out of you know,

655
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:36,320
Speaker 2: some sort of you know, like metal tubing or bone

656
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:38,839
Speaker 2: tubing or wooden tubing or what have you. Instead, those

657
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:43,479
Speaker 2: are made out of cylinders of dried mud. And if,

658
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 2: when say, cleaning out an old shed or something, you

659
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 2: happen to break some of these cylinders open, well, there's

660
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 2: an additional level of surprise you might find that they

661
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 2: are full of the remains of tiny spiders, because while

662
00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 2: the adults are typically nectar drinkers, the young require the

663
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 2: meat and the bodies of host organisms in the form

664
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 2: of spiders, which they cram in these cylinders by the dozen.

665
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 2: If you've never seen this before, I highly recommend looking

666
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:17,840
Speaker 2: up some images on your favorite image search system, because

667
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:22,320
Speaker 2: it's grizzly. These chambers are just filled with the remains

668
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 2: of spiders because they need to be in there so

669
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 2: that the young can hatch in or on these spiders

670
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 2: and then consume their precious meat. Now an interesting wrinkle

671
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 2: considering mud wasp nests, however, is that, as you may

672
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 2: have noticed, while they'll naturally build their nests on naturally

673
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 2: occurring wood or naturally occurring rock conditions, human structures of

674
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 2: varying styles and materials often offer great environments for them,

675
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 2: particularly you know, if it's something that's exposed to the

676
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 2: elements at all, if it's open at all, so barns

677
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 2: sheds this sort of thing. These are often significantly encrusted

678
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 2: in mud wasp nests, to the point that someone may

679
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 2: have to come around eventually and scrape them off. I

680
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 2: think I've even seen them form on window panes, that

681
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 2: sort of thing. In some cases, they're even building their

682
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 2: own mud dwellings on human dwellings or creations that are

683
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 2: made out of mud or stone or earth of some sort.

684
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 2: And they've been doing this for a very long time.

685
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 2: In fact, as pointed out by Finch at All in

686
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:35,400
Speaker 2: a twenty nineteen paper I was looking at in coordinary geochronology,

687
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 2: the radiocarbon dating of these nests, when attached to things

688
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:43,960
Speaker 2: like ancient human rock art and relatively open rock dwellings,

689
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:49,439
Speaker 2: can be incredibly insightful. So we're talking like late Plustocene

690
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 2: nests here, which have fossilized. The primary innovator of this

691
00:39:54,719 --> 00:40:00,840
Speaker 2: approach with an Australian geochronologist named Richard Burt Roberts Bird

692
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 2: being like the nickname you can call him bird apparently,

693
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 2: and the hope was that given the wide world distribution

694
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 2: of mud wasps, this would become something of like a

695
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:16,320
Speaker 2: standard tool for dating, you know, certain sites of archaeological interests.

696
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:18,840
Speaker 2: I've read some other papers that seem to indicate that

697
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 2: this didn't quite come to pass. There might actually be

698
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 2: limited practical value, but it's still pretty interesting and apparently

699
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:29,280
Speaker 2: maybe in some cases can be incredibly insightful when dating

700
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:41,719
Speaker 2: something of conditions are just right, all right. So that's

701
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:46,319
Speaker 2: some added detail on a case of an organism using

702
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:48,400
Speaker 2: mud that, again I think a lot of us are

703
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:52,879
Speaker 2: familiar with due to the distribution of mud wasps, and also,

704
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:55,720
Speaker 2: you know, is a fairly safe thing to encounter as

705
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 2: a kid. But an example I wasn't familiar with concerns

706
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 2: fiddler crabs.

707
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 3: Oh interesting, now, if I recall, fiddler crabs played a

708
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 3: big role in our series called The Lesser of Two

709
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:09,880
Speaker 3: Crab Claws about asymmetry and nature.

710
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and here they are once more or at

711
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 2: least two species of fiddler crab. Anyway, So I was

712
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 2: reading about this in a two thousand and three article

713
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 2: by Christy at All published in Behavioral Ecology and Sociobiology,

714
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 2: and they pointed out that you have there are couple

715
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 2: of key examples of fiddler crabs that do something interesting

716
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 2: with the materials that they bring out of their burrows.

717
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,400
Speaker 2: So obviously one of the things about digging a burrow

718
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 2: is you got to bring all that dirt up right.

719
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 2: It's kind of like in the movie The Great Escape,

720
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 2: What do you do with all that extra dirt from

721
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 2: digging the tunnels. You can't just step in one place

722
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 2: because then the guards will notice. So you've got to

723
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 2: sneak it around. You've got to put it in the

724
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:54,319
Speaker 2: cuffs of your pants and secretly deposit it just all

725
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 2: over the yard.

726
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 3: Man, how much dirt can you fit in the cuff

727
00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 3: of your pants.

728
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 2: Well, a little bit at a time, or as much

729
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,880
Speaker 2: as possible at a time to try to avoid detection.

730
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 2: But you know, the crabs don't have to worry about that.

731
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 2: So the crabs bring these materials out of the burrow,

732
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:16,240
Speaker 2: and in a couple of species, you see male fiddler

733
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 2: crabs essentially to some degree, building something out of it

734
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 2: next to their burrow. For instance, there's the musical fiddler crab.

735
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:30,239
Speaker 2: This is Leptusa Musica, and this one will build what

736
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 2: it's called a sand hood next to the burrow. So

737
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:34,840
Speaker 2: this is just like I mean, picture kind of like

738
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 2: a pile of sand. The image that I found of it,

739
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 2: it looks kind of like a wave though it's kind

740
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:46,359
Speaker 2: of like a sale made out of piled sand. It's

741
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 2: roughly the same height as the crab.

742
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:51,320
Speaker 3: I think of it as sort of a popped collar

743
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:53,720
Speaker 3: around the neck hole of the burrow entrance.

744
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:57,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think that's reasonable. Now you would be

745
00:42:57,360 --> 00:42:59,800
Speaker 2: fair and saying, well, that sounds a lot like sand

746
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 2: significantly less like mud guys. But don't worry. There's another one,

747
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:08,880
Speaker 2: and this is Bbe's Fiddler Crab. Bbe's Fiddler Crab sometimes

748
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 2: builds mud pillars next to their burrows, and this seems

749
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:18,279
Speaker 2: to help them attract females for mating. Now, as the

750
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:20,840
Speaker 2: authors point out here, this is where it's more interesting

751
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 2: is apparently females do seem to prefer going over and

752
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 2: hanging out near males and burrows that have a mud tower,

753
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:32,719
Speaker 2: or in the case of the musical fiddler Crab, that

754
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:37,759
Speaker 2: sand hood. They do seem to prefer it, but the

755
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 2: practice might not have evolved for mate choice. So, in

756
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:43,760
Speaker 2: other words, a lot of times things like this occur,

757
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 2: and we talk about it being like a signal of fitness,

758
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 2: like saying, look, I mean clearly I'm the one to

759
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:50,840
Speaker 2: mate with because look what I have throught, you know,

760
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 2: look at this thing that I can Look how much

761
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:55,319
Speaker 2: sand I can pile up? Right, And that seems to

762
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 2: be kind of like our basic way of understanding it.

763
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 2: They argue in this paper that it may serve. These

764
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:06,280
Speaker 2: may serve as sensory traps providing shelter for crabs, which crabs,

765
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 2: you know, crave to avoid predators. If you've ever walked

766
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:11,799
Speaker 2: around on the beach, you know how this works. The

767
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 2: crab doesn't really want to be moving out in the

768
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 2: open for long. It prefers to stick to to crevices

769
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:22,320
Speaker 2: and shadows because they're and of course holes and burrows

770
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 2: could because there's safety there. And so the idea here

771
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:29,360
Speaker 2: is that selection pressure emerges out of the increased survivability

772
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 2: of shade building male fiddler crabs. So the fiddler crabs

773
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 2: that have have their sand or their mud piled in

774
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:40,399
Speaker 2: such a way as to allow for a little extra shade,

775
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:44,880
Speaker 2: a little extra shelter for themselves and for females they

776
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 2: might be mating with, these are the ones that tend

777
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 2: to survive.

778
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 3: Okay, so not just a mate signal, but an actual,

779
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:55,439
Speaker 3: actually useful for survival.

780
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 2: Right right, Yeah, And I think they're Their argument, if

781
00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 2: I'm understanding them correctly, is that, yeah, it's it's more

782
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 2: about that survivability than any kind of signal that they're

783
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 2: sending out there, any kind of fitness signal, though, I mean,

784
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:10,799
Speaker 2: just as far as you know. I'm looking at these

785
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 2: pictures and I think I can't stack sand or mud

786
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:15,840
Speaker 2: that high where it towers over me. I mean this

787
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:18,120
Speaker 2: one of the of Bebe's fiddler craft.

788
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 3: You're thinking I should go mate with that crab.

789
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:23,799
Speaker 2: Well, no, I mean, I just admire. It's like, could

790
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,840
Speaker 2: I stack mud up in a pillar or a column

791
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:29,879
Speaker 2: that's twice as tall as I am? No, I would

792
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:34,320
Speaker 2: be crushed by the mud. Now, other factors are involved, obviously.

793
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 3: Hats off to the fiddler crab, to the Bebe crab specifically.

794
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right. Mud, of course, is also a nest

795
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:44,920
Speaker 2: building ingredient. Various birds collect mud in addition to other

796
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 2: elements to build their nest. Using the mud is kind

797
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 2: of a you know, glue or mortar. Swallows are the

798
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 2: best example of mud use in birds, but various birds

799
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 2: use mud to some degree. But still, if you haven't

800
00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 2: seen a swallow nest, you should look at one. It

801
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:02,799
Speaker 2: looks a muddy mess. This is not the bird ness

802
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:05,800
Speaker 2: that your kindergarten teacher kept in a shoe box to

803
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:08,279
Speaker 2: show you.

804
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 3: Now, this one looks like a real disaster if it

805
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 3: gets wet.

806
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 2: I should also, of course mention beavers once more. We

807
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 2: did a series of episodes on beavers not too long ago.

808
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:22,279
Speaker 2: Beavers obviously also use mud in their constructions, which are

809
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:24,360
Speaker 2: made out of out of wood and mud for the

810
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 2: most part. Yeah, but I want to get to the

811
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 2: best example of a of a mud organism, organism that

812
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 2: thrives on it and in it, and that is the

813
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:41,240
Speaker 2: mud skipper. So in the last episode we discussed mud

814
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:44,799
Speaker 2: as this intermediate environment that likely played a greater role

815
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 2: in the evolution of land animals than we often consider, right.

816
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 2: Was one of the things that I mentioned in the

817
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:54,279
Speaker 2: last episode is like you think of that that illustration,

818
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:57,799
Speaker 2: that simplistic illustration, and a lot of old science textbooks

819
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 2: of the the of mortal organisms coming out of the

820
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 2: water and taking the land, and it's generally, you know,

821
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 2: it looks like it's at at your local park, or

822
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 2: it looks like maybe it's at the beach or something.

823
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 2: You know. I often think of also if that Treehouse

824
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:14,360
Speaker 2: with Horror episode where the creature crawls out of the

825
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 2: water and Homer Simpson sets on it or steps on it,

826
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:17,799
Speaker 2: africat which one it.

827
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 3: Is, I'm thinking of a fish with human feet like that,

828
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 3: like Julius Caesar's horse in that drawing.

829
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, but like we discussed like these kind of these

830
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:32,240
Speaker 2: these muddy environments, muddy waters and muddy shores and mud flats,

831
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 2: they were. They were probably a lot more important than

832
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:38,359
Speaker 2: we often give them credit. And even today, when you

833
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 2: consider the mud flats found in coastal wetlands around the world,

834
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:47,839
Speaker 2: you'll find vital ecosystems that are home to various specialized organisms.

835
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:52,319
Speaker 2: And yeah, the mud skipper is a mud specialist. You

836
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 2: may like to go mudding, but the mud skipper lives

837
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 2: in the mud. This is the mud skipper's world.

838
00:47:58,160 --> 00:47:59,279
Speaker 3: You're in my world now.

839
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. So there are twenty three extended species of mud skipper.

840
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 2: They're members of the vast Gabba dat family. More than

841
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:10,520
Speaker 2: two thousand species and more than two hundred genera, though

842
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:12,720
Speaker 2: I've seen that count lower as well, but it's still

843
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 2: a lot. There are a lot of Gobi's in the world,

844
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 2: but Gobi's, you know what I'm talking about. Most of

845
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 2: you probably do. Gobi's. They have kind of a telltale

846
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 2: look right their heads, their overall morphology they look like Gobi's.

847
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:30,520
Speaker 2: There's kind of I don't know how else to explain it.

848
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:32,720
Speaker 2: They all kind of look like they're saying, hey, guys,

849
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 2: what's going on exactly? Yeah, there's a I think there's

850
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 2: some gobies on SpongeBob like. They're very Spongebobby in their appearance. Now,

851
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:43,919
Speaker 2: they're fifteen genera of air breathing gobi's. But the mud

852
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 2: skippers here in particular, belong to the genus Periophthalmus, and

853
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 2: they have several defining features of note here that aid

854
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:54,879
Speaker 2: them in their their their muddy habitat. So, first of all,

855
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 2: they have fused pelvic fins which form a disc shaped

856
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:01,920
Speaker 2: sucker which them by allowing them to sort of attach

857
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:06,360
Speaker 2: to surfaces. They can use these to aid themselves in

858
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 2: climbing rocks and even trees. Namely, now we're talking about

859
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:14,320
Speaker 2: mangroves here, but we're talking about their roots, their trunks,

860
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:18,880
Speaker 2: their lower branches. So definitely a case of a fish

861
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:19,880
Speaker 2: that can climb a tree.

862
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 3: Wouldn't have thought that.

863
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:23,239
Speaker 2: But of course, this is not the only gobi that

864
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 2: excels at climbing. There's also a gobi that you will

865
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 2: find in Hawaii if you visit certain waterfalls that I

866
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 2: don't know if you'll get to see one. I didn't

867
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 2: get to see one, but I mean you can you

868
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:36,439
Speaker 2: know they're there, or they're there sometimes there. These are

869
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 2: the Oapu Nopili or Stimpson's Gobi, and these little guys

870
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:45,600
Speaker 2: scale the vertical cliffs of waterfalls.

871
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 3: Wow.

872
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, you may have seen some videos, some documentary footage

873
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 2: about these these creatures because they're they're amazing and it's

874
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 2: an amazing journey, especially for something so small.

875
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 3: You know, I knew about flying fish. I don't know why.

876
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:00,800
Speaker 3: I'm more impressed by climbing fish. I'm up trees and

877
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:03,800
Speaker 3: cliffs than i am with flying fish.

878
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 2: So the coming back to the mud skipper though, Yeah,

879
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:09,879
Speaker 2: they have specialized morphology for semi aquatic living on these

880
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:13,239
Speaker 2: mud flats. They can breathe air through their skin and

881
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:16,840
Speaker 2: the lining of their mouth the only while wet. You

882
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:18,920
Speaker 2: often see images of them and footage of them with

883
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:22,480
Speaker 2: them with their mouths opening and so forth. They also

884
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:27,200
Speaker 2: do this as part of like a defensive display between males.

885
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:30,480
Speaker 2: It's a lot of great footage of that of these

886
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:34,120
Speaker 2: males combating each other and having standoffs on the mud.

887
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 2: They are excellent soft sediment burrowers as well. They're great

888
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 2: at burrowing in the mud. This is key to their

889
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 2: egg laying. They build these burrows, they lay their eggs

890
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:47,799
Speaker 2: in the mud. Also, this is how they avoid predators.

891
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:51,160
Speaker 2: They jump down those burrows get out of sight of

892
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:53,719
Speaker 2: anything that's trying to eat them. And they also use

893
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:57,760
Speaker 2: these for thermoregulation as well. They also work to maintain

894
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 2: an air pocket inside the burrow for prolonged stays in

895
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 2: low oxygen environments. And you might wonder, too, well, how

896
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:07,279
Speaker 2: do they bring the mud back up? While they bring

897
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 2: it up in their mouths, They bring big mouthfuls and

898
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 2: they spit out these mud balls beside the burrow. Joe

899
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 2: I included an image of a mud skipper spitting mud

900
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 2: sort of a ball. It's not as cartoon cartoonally ball

901
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 2: like as you might imagine, but here's a mud skipper

902
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:25,720
Speaker 2: spit and mud.

903
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 3: So this is the equivalent of you're digging a hole

904
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:30,720
Speaker 3: in the ground with the shovel, you're throwing the mud,

905
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:33,480
Speaker 3: or not the mud, the dirt over your shoulder. Here

906
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:36,719
Speaker 3: it is digging in this wet mud, a sort of

907
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:40,480
Speaker 3: tunnel in the mud, and it is spitting out the

908
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:42,760
Speaker 3: excess that's being voided from the cavity.

909
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:47,000
Speaker 2: It's making exactly. Yeah. The other interesting thing about them,

910
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:50,400
Speaker 2: like their morphology positions, their eyes atop their head. They

911
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:53,719
Speaker 2: have these big eyes that you might not catch what

912
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,680
Speaker 2: it is. It's amazing about them when you're watching them.

913
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 2: That makes them somehow more relatable and more human like.

914
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:01,560
Speaker 2: And part of that is is that they blink. Uh,

915
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:05,399
Speaker 2: they've and they evolved this independently of terrestrial tetrapods.

916
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:08,440
Speaker 3: Well, I said this about Gobi's earlier in general, but

917
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 3: the yeah, the mud skippers do seem relatable in a

918
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 3: way that a lot of fish don't.

919
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're just yeah, they're they're crawling around on

920
00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:23,239
Speaker 2: the mud flats. They're engaging in these standoffs with each other.

921
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 2: And I think the other part is like, unlike a

922
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 2: fish in the water, of course, in this case, they

923
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:33,200
Speaker 2: are also interacting, you know, on on a surface. They're

924
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:36,880
Speaker 2: they're they're out of that three d uh marine environment

925
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:39,959
Speaker 2: and here they are on the mud behaving as these

926
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 2: strange creatures that that you know, that almost feel very

927
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:46,840
Speaker 2: alien compared to anything else because they're they're they're not

928
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:49,719
Speaker 2: exactly like anything in the water, and they're not like

929
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 2: anything on the land. Uh, They're they're totally doing their

930
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:56,640
Speaker 2: own thing, and they're doing it in this strange, like muddy,

931
00:52:57,080 --> 00:52:58,480
Speaker 2: kind of slimy environment.

932
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:01,200
Speaker 3: I mean, I guess they look like a cross between

933
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:06,240
Speaker 3: fish and frogs, which makes sense because they are amphibious fish.

934
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. I want to say, it's BBC's Life, one of

935
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 2: the David Attenboroughs that has some tremendous footage of these

936
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:16,279
Speaker 2: guys going about their business. And I think they even

937
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:19,360
Speaker 2: used to they put a camera down in one of

938
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:22,520
Speaker 2: their burrows so you can see how that's going. Some

939
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:26,359
Speaker 2: really remarkable footage that's from probably at least ten years

940
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 2: old now, but it's out there.

941
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:29,840
Speaker 3: See how it's going.

942
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:33,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's going. It's going great down there.

943
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:35,480
Speaker 3: Now we're the ones saying, hey, guys, what's up?

944
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:37,360
Speaker 2: Yeah? All right?

945
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:38,759
Speaker 3: Should we call it there for part two?

946
00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:40,560
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think so. I mean, I think that's a

947
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:43,319
Speaker 2: good overview of some of the ways that animals use mud,

948
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 2: like most of the major categories of mud use and

949
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:51,680
Speaker 2: some of the more exciting and notable cases. I'm sure

950
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:54,040
Speaker 2: we left off some interesting ones. So if there's one

951
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:56,200
Speaker 2: that you really love, just right in let us know.

952
00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:59,680
Speaker 2: We'll highlight it, perhaps in a future episode of Listener. Mail,

953
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:05,200
Speaker 2: because yeah, it's the realm of mud. Is this world

954
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:07,000
Speaker 2: that is easy. It's easy for us to take it

955
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:10,239
Speaker 2: for granted and not realize just how versatile it is

956
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:13,799
Speaker 2: and how essential it is for various organisms. So we're

957
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:16,800
Speaker 2: going to have at least one more episode regarding mud

958
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:18,800
Speaker 2: this Thursday. Tune in for that. This is going to

959
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:20,160
Speaker 2: be the one where we're going to come back and

960
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:22,520
Speaker 2: discuss mud and warfare a little bit, but we're also

961
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 2: going to discuss the importance of mud as a human

962
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:28,480
Speaker 2: construction material or the creation of mud bricks and so forth.

963
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 2: In the meantime, if you would like to listen to

964
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:32,359
Speaker 2: other episodes of Stuff to Blow Your Mind, you will

965
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:34,200
Speaker 2: find them in the Stuff to Blow your Mind podcast

966
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:38,160
Speaker 2: feed We have our core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays,

967
00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:40,839
Speaker 2: listener Mail on Monday, short Form Artifact or Monster Fact

968
00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:42,880
Speaker 2: on Wednesday, and on Fridays, we set aside most series

969
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:45,680
Speaker 2: concerns to just talk about a weird film on Weird

970
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:46,360
Speaker 2: House Cinema.

971
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:50,640
Speaker 3: Huge thanks to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway. If

972
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:52,239
Speaker 3: you would like to get in touch with us with

973
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:54,840
Speaker 3: feedback on this episode or any other to suggest a

974
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:57,080
Speaker 3: topic for the future, or just to say hello. You

975
00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:00,400
Speaker 3: can email us at contact Stuff to Blow Your Mind

976
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:08,400
Speaker 3: dot com.

977
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:11,440
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978
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:15,360
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979
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:31,440
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