1 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:08,200 Speaker 1: What's up. I'm Laura Currency and I'm Alexa Kristen. Welcome 2 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 1: back to Atlantia. Allen Sylvain from Sylvain, a strategy consultancy, 3 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 1: is joining us today. Before we get into the interview, 4 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:19,639 Speaker 1: Laura and I have a little riff. What have you 5 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:23,279 Speaker 1: been thinking about lately? What have we've been talking about lately? Alexa? 6 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:25,240 Speaker 1: As you know, I've played sports the majority of my 7 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: life and I'm constantly thinking about ways brand marketers can 8 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:35,200 Speaker 1: get in and support women's leagues, female athletes. And recently 9 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 1: I caught an ad from CarMax that features Sue Bird 10 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: and Steph Curry, and an example of where a brand 11 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: not only got in to highlight a narrative and celebrating 12 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 1: Sue Bird's accolades, you know, juxtaposed against Steph Curry, but 13 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: also want to step further and signed on to be 14 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: an official partner of the w n B. A that 15 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 1: type of next step action of not only leveraging media 16 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: and marketing, but to actually go to the next level 17 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 1: and invest in the growth. I think it really brings 18 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 1: it back to a conversation we've been having, which is 19 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:15,960 Speaker 1: not just how consumers are shareholders, but us as as 20 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: media buyers can think about approaching the work we do 21 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: through a shareholder lens, and so I think again, this 22 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 1: CarMax example is one in which, um, I hope to 23 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: see more of you and I are very different. You 24 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: were in sports, I was in the arts. So I 25 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 1: totally agree in terms of from the marketing advertising side, 26 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 1: and I love the kind of perspective as an athlete. 27 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: I don't think you're alone. So a lot of females 28 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 1: out there who are the decision urs on dropping money 29 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: on a car and many other consumer products. So how 30 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: do we have a conversation at a brand inside, at 31 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: the table with a partner to say, yes, okay, I 32 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 1: want the big volume numbers, but actually, if I go 33 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: left where nobody else's I'm going to have something that 34 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: is so much greater, with so much more fandom potential. 35 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: And I'm doing the right thing. I'm standing up for 36 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:17,359 Speaker 1: what I believe in, you know, like a building on that. 37 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: I think it's a difference between being a marketer that's 38 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: there to borrow audience to being an active participant who's invested. Yes, 39 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 1: it's being invested in the growth not just of the sport, 40 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 1: but of the audience and community that exists within it. 41 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 1: These are the buyers of your service or product and 42 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 1: the future buyers. And we were at to E we 43 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 1: used to talk about this all the time. Who are 44 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:49,920 Speaker 1: the future buyers and who are the future shareholders of 45 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:53,080 Speaker 1: this company? Are we even talking to them and not 46 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: talking at them? Are we opening them up to how 47 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 1: we're creating something that they can either A be a 48 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: part of B invest in right to say, not only 49 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: are we looking for our buyers, were that's how you're 50 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: investing in your buyers in a different way. I would 51 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: actually say that this is really in a girl at 52 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: the top at the CMO level to be thinking about 53 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 1: this right and the buyers on the agency side should 54 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: be thinking about this on the day to day. Cmos 55 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: should be requiring this type of thinking and so that 56 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 1: when they're sitting down with a media plan, they are 57 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 1: not just looking at where they're showing up, they're looking 58 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 1: at where they're investing. Period. So with that, Allen Sylvain 59 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: from Sylvain, we'll be right back. Welcome back at Landia. 60 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: We are here with a good friend, Ellen Sylvan, founder 61 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: and CEO of Sylvain. Welcome, thanks for having me. Yeah, 62 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: that's that's fantastic. I'm happy to be here. I have 63 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: been lucky enough to work with you, and I'd love 64 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 1: to hear from you not only your description of Sylvain, 65 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: but what kind of work you've kind of evolved into 66 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: over the years. Yeah, thanks for asking, and you're asking 67 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: a good time too, because yesterday was our eleven year anniversary, 68 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:26,719 Speaker 1: So yeah, thanks. The answer to that question has changed 69 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 1: a lot over those eleven years. But basically, UM Sylvain 70 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 1: is a strategy and design consultancy. UM. Really, what we 71 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: try to do is help companies imagine the future of 72 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: their products and their brands, and we do that through 73 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: innovation consulting, so helping companies like imagine what new needs 74 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: are around product experiences, and also brand strategy, so thinking 75 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:49,039 Speaker 1: about you know, what is the brand, who is it for, 76 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,280 Speaker 1: where does it fit in the world. It's really all 77 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: designed to to help companies progress and help society and 78 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: large progress, uh, you know, help the needs of people 79 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:02,720 Speaker 1: progress all that. What's the origin story? Yeah, I mean 80 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 1: I don't know when you start these things, UM, sometimes 81 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: it's a little bit of the dream of entrepreneurialism, which 82 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 1: was definitely my case, Like I wanted to make something, 83 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: I want to build something, from scratch. But also I 84 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 1: worked at Mother, which was like a and is at 85 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 1: the particular time was like a very avant garde and 86 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:24,040 Speaker 1: UM creatively driven agency UM, And so I wanted to 87 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: I wanted a little bit of that, but I also 88 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 1: wanted a bit of the management consultancy, buttoned up, rigorous discipline, 89 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:32,720 Speaker 1: marketing best practice, and so I kind of I worked 90 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:35,280 Speaker 1: at a similar place to Sylvan and really felt like 91 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: if my boss could could do this, I could probably 92 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: do it the way I want. But I convinced a 93 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 1: couple of people to join me, and those people are 94 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 1: still with me, and and yeah, that's that's the that's 95 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: the origin story. You guys are a B corp. You're 96 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:54,159 Speaker 1: one of the only consultancies that's a B corp? Why 97 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 1: why was that important to you? It wasn't. It wasn't 98 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 1: right out the gate. It was maybe four years ago. 99 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 1: But I don't know, I mean, I they struggled with 100 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 1: the work we do. You know, how do you advocate 101 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: for brands and advocate for consumerism in a world like 102 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: like we live in now? And is there a way 103 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:10,160 Speaker 1: to make our work will feel a little bit more 104 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: virtuous and feel like it has a soul and has 105 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: a purpose, you know. And um, the b LAB set 106 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 1: up the certification, which is pretty amazing. You know, companies 107 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:22,600 Speaker 1: that live up to a certain standard, and there's not 108 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: easy to live up to these standards. You know. We 109 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: we we applied the first year, we didn't get it, 110 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: and and we have it now. And by the way, 111 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:30,719 Speaker 1: you need a score of eight out of a hundred 112 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: to get it, and we have like an eight point four. Okay, 113 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 1: so we we barely made it. And that explains your 114 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 1: other point, which is that it's really hard for consultancies 115 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: and agencies to get the certification. They're very When we 116 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 1: did it four years ago, there was one other one 117 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: in the entire world out of the twenty and they 118 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 1: were a consultancy like ours, and they were focused on 119 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 1: a nonprofit space. You know, we work with some pretty 120 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:55,719 Speaker 1: serious violators of the environment and some pretty some pretty 121 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: fucked up companies. Can I say that, Yeah, oh yeah 122 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:04,720 Speaker 1: you can. So, so the b LAB certification really helped reconcile, 123 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:07,600 Speaker 1: you know, what, who we were as people, the work 124 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 1: we do, and just make sure we're doing right by 125 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: the consumers, we represent, the employees, clients, all that and 126 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: for anyone who is not familiar with that certification. It entail. Yeah, 127 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: they track a number of things. They tracked like your 128 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 1: environmental footprint, like how do you how much impact do 129 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: you have in the world when it comes to the environment, 130 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 1: They track you're you know, how much are you engaged 131 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: with the local community? Um, do you volunteer and and 132 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 1: that sort of thing. And then also how do you 133 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: treat your employees, like thinking about employee well being and 134 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: policies and so on. So the thing about us is 135 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: that we were treating our employees well, but we didn't 136 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 1: have policies in place to really hold us accountable to it. 137 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: So the BE certification helps us just really be buttoned 138 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 1: up in terms of like, you know, what is our 139 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: parental leaves policy? Like we of course we always had 140 00:07:57,480 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 1: it down, but why is it among the best in 141 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: the world. Let's put it to let's put it on paper. 142 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 1: I don't know if that it's among the best of 143 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: the world. I'm just saying. And things like that really 144 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 1: forced us to just put pen to paper and hold 145 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 1: ourselves accountable. So so Patagonia is the biggest UM certified 146 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 1: the corporation and and their famous obviously for their environmental friends. 147 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 1: So we we we kind of looked to companies like 148 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: that Ben and Jerry's and something, you know, some of 149 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: these other companies that are getting a lot of attention 150 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 1: these days for making wise choices, and we want to 151 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: be among that group. Getting the bi core certification, you 152 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 1: talked about holding yourself accountable working with companies or partners 153 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 1: that we're doing things maybe that are less than ideal, 154 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 1: right for society, for the environment, etcetera. Has that certification 155 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: cemented even a way of thinking about who you partner with, 156 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: like what clients you do take on did they have 157 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: to adhere to something? So we're working on that. We're 158 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: thinking about whether we need to create some sort of 159 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: policies to make that, you know, some sort of um 160 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,200 Speaker 1: litmus tests for what qualifies as the client in the 161 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 1: work we do. There is still like an internal sort 162 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: of evaluate evaluation you make um to determine, you know, 163 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: who do you want to work with him? Should you 164 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: work with them? And that that's like, uh, that was 165 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: true all alone and for me, you know, for the 166 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: most part, it's about companies that are responsible when it 167 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 1: comes to environmental impact and so on, but also does 168 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: it make you feel good, like do you want to 169 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: you want to really be among And it's a hard 170 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: it's it's it's a really hard thing to do. The 171 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,439 Speaker 1: thing I've learned in leading an agency is recognizing it 172 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: as much as what you know you do well, Um, 173 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: it's as important to understand the areas in which you 174 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:44,559 Speaker 1: should not operate. And I'm curious to know over the 175 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: last eleven years what you've learned distracts from the mission 176 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:51,199 Speaker 1: or at least the mission for for where we're headed 177 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: in the present sense. Yeah, it's a it's a good question, 178 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:55,959 Speaker 1: you know. For what we do in election those is 179 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: what we do. We do a lot of upfront strategy work, 180 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: so we help build brands and you know, developed ideas 181 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 1: that are ready to go to market. And as soon 182 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 1: as we're done with the project, clients are like, let's 183 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:07,320 Speaker 1: take it to market, you know, so that immediately they 184 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: want a creative agency or design agency or something like that. 185 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:14,559 Speaker 1: And if I'm honest, we really were a strategy driven company. 186 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:17,439 Speaker 1: We do strategy better and I'm among the best in 187 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 1: the world, right, that's what we aspire almost. I'm a strategist, 188 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 1: the founder and CEOs of Strategist. Over the years, we've 189 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 1: developed a pretty solid design capability, and Alex and I 190 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 1: have talked about this too, you know, I wanted to 191 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 1: get better and we're still bringing on people. We have 192 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 1: about five or six designers UM. So sometimes we it's 193 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 1: only natural for us to take the brand work to design, 194 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: but it's always a weird sort of things, like we're 195 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 1: building our design capability, um. But we've we've worked on 196 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: some pretty amazing design challenges. So that's just designed. The 197 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,079 Speaker 1: next step though, like the creative communication side of things, 198 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: or even potentially even the experiential side of things, like 199 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: we don't know how to do. So what we often 200 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: do is will clients want us to take that Clients 201 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: want us to own at work because they feel like 202 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 1: it's got some strategic foundation and some strategic rigor. So 203 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: we'll do is we'll bring in fronts um. You know, 204 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 1: if if an agency like Giants Mool that we like, 205 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: or if it's like a people that we've worked with 206 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 1: in the past, will cobble together something and we'll play 207 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:17,200 Speaker 1: the collective collective tissues. So over the eleven years, we've 208 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 1: done that. A few times. We did we had we 209 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:21,319 Speaker 1: did like a huge campaign launch for Amazon last year 210 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 1: for their luxury stores. Um, it was, it was. It 211 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 1: was not what I was expecting to do. Who wants 212 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 1: to talk about luxury stores like campaign work? Like campaign work? 213 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 1: All of a sudden, we have like our directors and 214 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 1: we had freelancers and all that. So to answer your question, 215 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: or like, we don't do campaign development stuff, but we're 216 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 1: kind of thinking about it as as a natural extension 217 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 1: of where we can play, whether that's bolstering our design 218 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:46,680 Speaker 1: capability or even going all in on agency work. What 219 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: are the watch outs, um for agency leaders, particularly independent 220 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: as they're thinking about navigating and where you're saying, I 221 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: can get up until this point, Could I take it on? 222 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 1: Should I? Maybe? But if I clicked it in this 223 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 1: capacity with another partner, one plus one equals three. Can 224 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 1: you talk about that experience? Sure? You know it's definitely 225 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:09,439 Speaker 1: something I think a lot about. You know, there's a 226 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 1: there's a big trap in this work that we're doing. 227 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: You know, we're trying to launch something and let it 228 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: grow fast and be better than anybody else. We're stressed 229 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:19,320 Speaker 1: about cash flow, so it's very easy to be you know, 230 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 1: a new opportunity presents itself. We've been trained to say 231 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 1: we can do everything Like that's kind of our jam, right, 232 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 1: like you need that. Yeah, we can figure out a 233 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: way to do it. But the real lesson the trap 234 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 1: is is hubris and arrogance and really believing you could 235 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:35,199 Speaker 1: do everything. And I follow in that trap anytimes. And 236 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: it's it's important to stop and realize when you can't 237 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: do something. But meanwhile, you also have to be clever 238 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 1: about how you grow. And if I can just tell 239 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: you one quick story, and I think I may have 240 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 1: even shared this story, we want to be before um 241 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: we we work on this huge project for a strategy 242 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: project for a financial services company, and I had this idea. 243 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: I was like, Yo, you guys need to do this event. 244 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 1: I have an idea for an experiential concept. Put it 245 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 1: on the part of Davos and the aspin is to 246 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: like something crazy. It's gonna bring people together from all 247 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 1: over the world's really interesting about profit and purpose. And 248 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 1: this is like five years ago before people were talking 249 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 1: about profit and purpose, okay, And and the clients were like, 250 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 1: and I came up with a name, I came up 251 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: with a sketch, I came up with a whole concept, right. 252 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 1: I I pitched it to the clients and then they 253 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:19,320 Speaker 1: that was the project come up with ideas and they 254 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 1: loved it. They were and this is a big multinational 255 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:25,719 Speaker 1: and financial organization and they were like, let's go. And 256 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:28,199 Speaker 1: they looked at me and they said, go, we will 257 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: give this projects. You go build this event for us. 258 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 1: And I was like what. I was like, I don't 259 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 1: I don't know the first thing about events, like putting 260 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: together an event. I don't know the first thing how 261 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 1: to pull that off. And so I had to go 262 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: back and say we can't do it, um. And that 263 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 1: I think was a huge lesson for me. It's like, 264 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 1: and a very smart lesson is you know no when 265 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: to say you can't do something. The clients and then 266 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 1: asked me to be the play the client on the 267 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: on the project and hire an experiential company. So we 268 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 1: went out and hired an experiential company and I got 269 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:02,559 Speaker 1: that invoice and I was like, I need to be 270 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: in that business. Um. But but yeah, that's that's the 271 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:12,680 Speaker 1: trap I thing when I've worked with agencies that don't 272 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 1: have a certain capability or skill set. In fact, Laura 273 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 1: and I when we work together when I was at GE, 274 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: we used to we used to think about publishers and 275 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 1: media companies like this. We would go to them and 276 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: we'd be like, this is what you're really good at. 277 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: These are your best assets, these are the assets we 278 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 1: want to work with, and this is how we want 279 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: to do it. And I think that clients actually need 280 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: to do that more. They need to do the work 281 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: on the agency and say, this is why I want 282 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 1: to partner with you. This is your special this is 283 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 1: and nol En, you and I have talked about this, 284 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 1: right like, this is your special, this is what you 285 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 1: crush at. I need you to keep crushing there. And 286 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: if you can be a partner to me in other 287 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: areas and help me get to an agency or someone 288 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 1: who can do that other thing really well. I trust 289 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 1: you because I trust your tape East, I trust your compass. 290 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: I think that more clients actually need to need to 291 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: think about that because I think it's also really easy 292 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 1: to go to a big, big network and hand them everything. 293 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 1: Talk about both of you, actually, Laura and Ellen right 294 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: are with independent shops. There are not a lot of 295 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: independent shops around, especially post COVID. Do you talk about 296 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 1: the decision to stay independent post the last year of COVID. 297 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 1: You know, independence is a virtue is who we are 298 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 1: and it allows us to do a lot of really 299 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 1: exceptional things. And I have no quants, Like I'm very 300 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 1: clear about the places I would want to work in 301 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: my life, and they're very very few. Um and also 302 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 1: in places I want the people I work with to 303 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 1: work for, and so it makes it very easy. They're 304 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: very very very few places where I would feel comfortable, 305 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 1: um working knowing that we're certified the corporation. You know, 306 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: I'm a black amer again, Like you know, minority owned 307 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: is important part of how I view the world and 308 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: who we represent. And if we were to get acquired 309 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: that that ethos would need to carry forward. And so 310 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 1: it's it's not something I think about, like let's stay independent, 311 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 1: let's say independent. With that said, um, you know, we 312 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: we sometimes have conversations and it's interesting and you know, 313 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 1: which gets to your other question about COVID. We're out 314 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: here hustling, like we're just trying to survive out here. 315 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 1: I think the key thing I would I would say though, 316 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 1: to answer your question Alexa, is like we quickly pivoted, 317 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 1: you know, we we were really instead of waiting and 318 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 1: to see what would happen, like what clients are gonna emerge, 319 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 1: like what's what new questions are we going to ask? 320 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: We immediately started to do stuff and you'll remember this, 321 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 1: like we we created like a digital learning school, like 322 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 1: a school on how to how to deal with prices. 323 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: We we just started making stuff like crazy. We created 324 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: a podcast, like we just started making tons of tons 325 00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 1: of I started speaking like crazy and went, you know, 326 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: conferences and stuff like that. We ended up doing well well, 327 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: not nearly where we wanted to be, but probably, but 328 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 1: it was it was just a good way to stay 329 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 1: busy when you're talking about hustling right and and thinking 330 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:16,680 Speaker 1: about finding ways to pivot, how do you get further 331 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:20,400 Speaker 1: upstream in this moment and not necessarily focused so much 332 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:23,879 Speaker 1: on the output, but finding ways to be a strategic 333 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 1: partner that's helping organizations, brands, businesses transform their overall footprint. 334 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,119 Speaker 1: You know. I mean that that's it's really to me 335 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 1: been about business transformation UM, and that transformation doesn't necessarily 336 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 1: have to be ripping up an entire playbook and starting 337 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,360 Speaker 1: from the beginning, but finding ways and and new moments 338 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 1: to provide value UM that isn't solely rooted in the execution. 339 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 1: We've got to rewrite some of the rules upstream in 340 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 1: order to be effective downstream. Yeah, it's a great thing 341 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:57,679 Speaker 1: to bring up. I mean, we we are privileged in 342 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 1: this way, if I'm being honest, because we're strategy consults. 343 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:04,159 Speaker 1: So strategy was already what we were doing, and so 344 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: we were well positioned in this regard. It doesn't mean 345 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 1: it was easy because even the most you know, the 346 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,119 Speaker 1: savdiest clients had no idea what was going on and 347 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 1: what to do. I talked to some clients who really 348 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 1: felt like this was going to be a short term thing. 349 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: Other clients thought it was gonna be a long term thing. 350 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:21,400 Speaker 1: Your clients talking about L shaped processions, V shape processions, 351 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 1: K shaped recessions, Like, I was like, how many shape processions? 352 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 1: But being upstream and already being in a place where 353 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:30,159 Speaker 1: we're talking to clients about their vision and they're already 354 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,639 Speaker 1: in the midst of transformation, it made it easy to 355 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 1: to to to be relevant um and for them to 356 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 1: continue to ask us to do stuff. That's not true 357 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 1: for all clients. And if you look at if you 358 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:43,159 Speaker 1: look at our client lists, we had a few that 359 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: we were doing a lot of work within the hospitality 360 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 1: space for example, UM and so, and it was chilling 361 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: to send emails to those clients on March their teeth 362 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: and for something to get bounced back. That's like those 363 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 1: same clients we worked with are no longer at the company. 364 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:03,199 Speaker 1: Was like a sobering thing. On the flip side, we 365 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:06,680 Speaker 1: were working with digital services companies that were killing you know, 366 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:08,959 Speaker 1: like you know, the unicorns, you all know what I'm 367 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,159 Speaker 1: talking about. We're working with a lot of those, and 368 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:15,439 Speaker 1: they they just continue to to to do work and 369 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:17,719 Speaker 1: look for insight and it was almost like a luxury 370 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 1: for them to have to think critically upstream. But if 371 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 1: i'm I do think there's a there's an inherent challenge 372 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: in strategy companies for being upstream and that you are 373 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 1: not relevant for the entire cycle, in the same way 374 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: as a challenge for companies that are downstream who fight 375 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 1: to be taken seriously when it comes to upstream strategic decisions. 376 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:40,920 Speaker 1: You know, I talked to so many production companies or 377 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 1: experiential agencies or creative agencies that are like, you know, 378 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: we wish we could shape the product or the brand 379 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:49,119 Speaker 1: that we're working on right now. We just have to 380 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:51,120 Speaker 1: We're just given a brief and we have to execute, 381 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 1: and that's not where we believe we can add the 382 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 1: most value. There is this inherent tension between brand and product. 383 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 1: Do you ever sit down with the chief product officer 384 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 1: and you've sat with the chief marketing officer and you're 385 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 1: seeing kind of a tale of two cities? Oh yeah, 386 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 1: all the time. I guess the question is is like, 387 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,199 Speaker 1: how do you reconcile that? How does how do you 388 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 1: reconcile that? And I think that we're in a really 389 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 1: I personally feel like we're in a really interesting place 390 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:25,119 Speaker 1: right now where brand is incredibly important, probably more important 391 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:27,680 Speaker 1: than it ever has been. Yet there are a lot 392 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: of people sitting in boardrooms and leadership positions saying we 393 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:34,479 Speaker 1: don't need it. How do you reconcile those things? And 394 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: has the conversation changed in the last year. I don't 395 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:40,439 Speaker 1: think the conversations changing the last last year. I think 396 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 1: the rub has always existed, going back when I was, 397 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 1: you know, in the nineties, you know, like it's always 398 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: been a thing. It's probably well before that, right But 399 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: what I think is interesting is that I think the 400 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: way to answer that question is not through the eyes 401 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:55,400 Speaker 1: of the company or even through the eyes of Sylvan 402 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 1: is through the eyes of the consumer. And the reason 403 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 1: you you can unopause ethically say what you just said, 404 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 1: which is that brand is everything that you do is because, 405 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: as you know, consumers consume things on that basis. But 406 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 1: in some categories and among some consumers, they believe there's 407 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:15,679 Speaker 1: a serious distinction between brand and products. They don't believe 408 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:17,639 Speaker 1: that they're they don't believe in brands. I think brands 409 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:20,439 Speaker 1: are confusing and a distraction. They believe like, I just 410 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,439 Speaker 1: want something that works, and why are you charging me 411 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: so much? If it's if it's like I just want 412 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 1: something that works, And I think that's actually where the 413 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,120 Speaker 1: distinction lies. It's not so much on the company side. 414 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 1: I think it is on the company side, and I 415 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 1: think you know, the best marketers are people that get 416 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 1: that sometimes they need to reconcile and sometimes consumers view 417 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:43,400 Speaker 1: things differently. UM. It's really on the consumer side where 418 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 1: I think there's act not a disconnect, but there's like 419 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,120 Speaker 1: people are different, people are complex, they're human. I think 420 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 1: looking at a number of UM campaign messages that were 421 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 1: out in market over the last year, brand as permission 422 00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,879 Speaker 1: is something that I've been thinking about based on action 423 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 1: you take over time that give you permission or don't 424 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: um to engage in conversation, to show up, you know, 425 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 1: uniquely in people's lives and what that means. What are 426 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: the best you're making ine, What are the things you're 427 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:19,479 Speaker 1: hearing from clients and other executives in the industry that 428 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 1: are inspiring or shaping how you're approaching the immediate future 429 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:27,920 Speaker 1: thinking about like what you know, some of the conversations 430 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 1: we're having now, some of the things we're being asked 431 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:31,679 Speaker 1: about now, And it's it's pretty clear in my mind, 432 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:33,680 Speaker 1: you know, we we we're in the middle of a 433 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 1: huge project right now with Nike UM and I usually 434 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 1: don't talk about our clients and I'm not going to 435 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 1: get into the specifics, but we're working on a huge 436 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:45,200 Speaker 1: project with Nike that's really about the transition from being 437 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 1: a wholesale brand to be to being or a retail 438 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 1: driven bad to be something else. And that's something else 439 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 1: is really about being directed consumer UM. We are getting 440 00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,199 Speaker 1: tons and tons of briefs about how to maximum as 441 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 1: the one on one to one relationship with consumers. So 442 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 1: DTC is everything, subscription is everything, membership is everything, premium 443 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 1: services everything, and we're doing that for every client. You 444 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: look at our client lists, every single client of ours 445 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 1: is talking to us about, well, how can now that 446 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: we don't need retail as much, or now that people 447 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 1: are online more, or now that we as you said, 448 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 1: which I think is a great point, like the permission, 449 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,160 Speaker 1: Now that we have permission to play a greater role 450 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 1: in the lives of consumers, what does that mean for us? 451 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 1: So we're developing models like DTC models, and all you 452 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 1: gotta do is look around like you know, Airbnb, Ubert Pro, 453 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 1: Spotify Premium, you know, trip Advisor plus. You know, it's 454 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: just and we're doing that every single cdit. We're doing 455 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: that in luxury where we work with clients like Chanelle 456 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 1: and Gucci, and and we're doing that in mass retail 457 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 1: we're working with Nike and Amazon. We're doing it in 458 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 1: finance with you know, American Express and and you just 459 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: I'm not This is literally every This is like the 460 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 1: foundational change that's happening with co it where people expect 461 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,440 Speaker 1: more from brands. They have captive at home. They're willing 462 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 1: to spend money in the in the right way brand 463 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 1: as products, so they're looking for experiences that are rich, 464 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,479 Speaker 1: you know, they want in a month, you know, so 465 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:16,680 Speaker 1: and so of the month club, Like that's that has 466 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 1: a new significance and value now than you know, more 467 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,159 Speaker 1: than it did two years ago. So I think I 468 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,880 Speaker 1: think that's a big one, Laura. Like the the idea 469 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 1: of these like one to one relationships we're getting asked 470 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: a lot about and I don't know that there's an 471 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:32,159 Speaker 1: answer yet, you know. It's so interesting down to like 472 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,119 Speaker 1: this very tactical example, and I have been thinking about 473 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 1: it for months now. I am waiting for the direct 474 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:45,919 Speaker 1: mail campaign of the year. The canvas has changed the 475 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 1: level of intimacy that you can create, and unlocking these 476 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,639 Speaker 1: things is down to the one to one level, you know, 477 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:54,439 Speaker 1: to your point, and then the ability to do that 478 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,920 Speaker 1: at scale through data and on all of the other 479 00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,240 Speaker 1: resources and tools we have available to us. I am 480 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 1: all in an alogue one. Like I was reading something 481 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 1: today about you know, the Amazon box being the new 482 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 1: out of home interesting, you know, like like thinking of 483 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 1: that as a billboard in your house, like that that canvas, 484 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 1: you know, And so I'm just really interested in how 485 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 1: those things can come to life a new and meaningful 486 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 1: ways at an individual level, which I don't know in 487 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,440 Speaker 1: modern media. Have we ever had the opportunity, um that 488 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:29,119 Speaker 1: we do now to really leverage that in a meaningful way. Yeah, 489 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 1: I mean people are listening. You know that they're waiting 490 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,440 Speaker 1: for the first time. Right, we're in a marketplace. Marketing 491 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 1: is all about interruption before and now it's it's a 492 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: completely different situation where people their ears are perked up. 493 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,119 Speaker 1: They know there's some value to come in the mailbox, 494 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:45,639 Speaker 1: you know, not only the analog mailbox. But you know, 495 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: I've never heard people talk so much about email newsletters 496 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 1: in the past year. People are hyped about email news Like, 497 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:53,639 Speaker 1: what's your favorite email newsletters? Did you get you know 498 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:57,719 Speaker 1: about this newsletter? What is your favorite? The Progress Report 499 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:03,120 Speaker 1: by Sylvain? It's a weekly. I don't know it's it's 500 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:05,399 Speaker 1: of course we have a news letter. Of course we 501 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: have we have a podcast too, Like but you get 502 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,120 Speaker 1: what I mean, Like there's a there's a new climate 503 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,200 Speaker 1: where not only are people paying attention a little bit more, 504 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 1: I think people are also more aware of what marketing is. 505 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:17,679 Speaker 1: And I'm curiously here what you both think about this, 506 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: because there's no mystery anymore. There's no mystery there. There 507 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 1: isn't like a Super Bowl spot that's gonna come out 508 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,400 Speaker 1: of nowhere. It's come blows away, and it's got aspirational 509 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 1: It takes us on a journey, in an emotional journey. 510 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,360 Speaker 1: Things people get how these things work. They have access 511 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 1: to these brands directly, they have access to celebrities directly. 512 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 1: They themselves are brands actually, you know, you know, they 513 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 1: present themselves as brands. They have their own logos and 514 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,720 Speaker 1: they have their own shopify and whatever. Like huge people 515 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:47,480 Speaker 1: are brands. So what's the what is the role of 516 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 1: like big brand promises these days? And I think because 517 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 1: of all that, people are much more open and sober 518 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,359 Speaker 1: about like brand messages and how to assess them. You know, 519 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 1: there's there's tons of research around Jen's rights, and people 520 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: were talking about gen Z, how the they're gonna rip 521 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,119 Speaker 1: it up and they're different and they're political and we 522 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,639 Speaker 1: can go to Parkland, we can go to Greta, like 523 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: there's so many great examples about gen Z's just truly 524 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 1: impacting the world. And the funny thing, a lot of 525 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 1: people think they have like an eight eight second attention span, 526 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:19,639 Speaker 1: you know that they're just you know, I don't know 527 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: what my kid, I have a fourteen year old kid 528 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 1: who's like tunes out really quickly. But I saw I 529 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 1: read this thing the other day where the author said 530 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,159 Speaker 1: something about it's not an eight second um, it's not 531 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 1: an eight second attention span, it's an eight second bullshit 532 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,119 Speaker 1: meter that they can evaluate stuff super fathom. It's not 533 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 1: it's good. Hold on. I would love to ask this 534 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,440 Speaker 1: question is is you think a lot about purpose? Um, 535 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 1: how do we know we're effective or created an experience 536 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:47,440 Speaker 1: that is going to have a lasting impact on the 537 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:51,160 Speaker 1: consumers and people that we're engaging with through the work 538 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,920 Speaker 1: that we do. Yeah, yeah, we So there are a 539 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 1: number of ways I would I would answer that. I 540 00:27:55,760 --> 00:28:00,879 Speaker 1: think first just on purpose for a second, Like the 541 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 1: the A lot of people think of purpose just means 542 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,399 Speaker 1: doing something socially good or politically motivated or good for 543 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 1: the community, when actually the term purpose and the idea 544 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,720 Speaker 1: of a purpose is just that you have a reason 545 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 1: to exist and you're really you have an agenda, you're 546 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:18,920 Speaker 1: doing something, You're up to something. So that the point 547 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:23,440 Speaker 1: is businesses need to have a purpose that's bigger than themselves. Um, 548 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,480 Speaker 1: And that's that's a very generic and big thing and 549 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: hard to quantify. But when it comes to like how 550 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 1: do you how do brands really know that they're impacting 551 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 1: people's lives? And this age where purpose and attention and 552 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:39,479 Speaker 1: all that is so limited. I think I've seen clients 553 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,959 Speaker 1: engaging in to really prove out and make an argument, 554 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 1: rational argument for how they're changing. But this is not 555 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 1: rational them. And and the reason I say that is 556 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 1: we're talking about companies as organized humans selling things to humans, 557 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 1: and that's a very emotional, qualitatively driven thing. And I 558 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 1: think the interesting question to me would be like, how 559 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 1: do you measure it qualitatively? How do you measure that 560 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: you're really impacting people qualitivity? Like how does that does 561 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 1: that work for an investor? I think the answer is 562 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 1: increasingly yes. I think the role of companies is much 563 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,959 Speaker 1: from more and more civic and much more of like 564 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 1: community driven and political. And as a result, I think 565 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,960 Speaker 1: the expectations of investors is changing, as evidence by game 566 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 1: Stop like in the nature of the investor's mindset is 567 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 1: changing where it's going beyond rationally. It's still there, of course, 568 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 1: because that's how you get your checkouts, how you get 569 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 1: your dividends, but it's getting to this other place where 570 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 1: you're thinking that you're capturing your understand the nuance of 571 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 1: brands and the emotionality of brands, and like how it 572 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 1: takes time, you know, sales overnight or brand over time, 573 00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 1: you know, and I think I think people are increasingly 574 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 1: getting them. It leads me to a question a lot 575 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 1: for you brand and brand strategy. How do you think 576 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 1: the makeup of a brand now versus a year ago? 577 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 1: For me? You know, we always talked about brands needed 578 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 1: to have purpose. We always talked about that, But today 579 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 1: I think brands are in fact political entities, that they 580 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,080 Speaker 1: are active political voices in this climate. So they not 581 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: it's not about Republican and Democrat, but they are. They 582 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 1: are animals of this political beast. They need to have 583 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 1: a point of view and they need to represent something. 584 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,000 Speaker 1: And in a way, when you buy something, you're voting 585 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 1: for something. And these brands are um part of the 586 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 1: democratic process and they represent their consumers and they need 587 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 1: to advocate for their consumers. So that's different than where 588 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 1: we were before, where Marlboro Man showed some chest hair 589 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 1: and people got hyped and they were like I need 590 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:45,800 Speaker 1: I want to smoke and look like the Marble Man. 591 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 1: Now it's like companies are taking a stand and organizing 592 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 1: movements and driving traffic where it needs to be an advocate, 593 00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 1: truly advocating for causes. So I think that is something 594 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,120 Speaker 1: that wasn't on the brand pyramid a year or two ago, 595 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 1: like and it wasn't just about purpose. Again it's not 596 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 1: about purpose, but like, what truly are you contributing to 597 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 1: the political climate today when it comes to health, when 598 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: it comes to race, when it comes to gender equality, 599 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:19,480 Speaker 1: when you know and so on? Where though, does bravery 600 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 1: come in? Are we in a time that requires a 601 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:30,240 Speaker 1: different level of creative and business bravery from leaders and brands? 602 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 1: What a great question, because I think, yeah, bravery is 603 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 1: an interesting way to put it, because I think a 604 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 1: lot of clients believe it takes bravery and as results, 605 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 1: they are paralyzed and you're afraid of being canceled and 606 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 1: all this other stuff. Bravery, I think might not be 607 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 1: the right way to think about it. I think it's 608 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 1: it's responsibility, you know, you know, bravery, it's just a 609 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 1: it's just a reason not to do it. And you know, 610 00:31:58,160 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 1: it's hard to tell your investors I'm going to be 611 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 1: brave if and I'm going to take some risk on 612 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 1: your behalf. It's like, well, no, it's easy. I I 613 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: think it's less. It's less about bravery. It's more about responsibility. 614 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 1: Like if if you are in um you know, thousands 615 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:15,320 Speaker 1: of doors or whatever, or if you have you know, 616 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 1: a database of millions of consumers, or if you have 617 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 1: the ear of a political candidate, you have responsibility to 618 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 1: advocate for what your consumers care about. And that could 619 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:30,480 Speaker 1: be UM something truly political, like a political agenda, like 620 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 1: the environment, but it also could be um from high 621 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,720 Speaker 1: quality experiences and high quality products and and so I 622 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 1: I think bravery might be a trap because it's it, yes, 623 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 1: of course, but it's also not everything. And again I 624 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 1: mentioned I have a fourteen year old kid, so you 625 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 1: imagine a lot of it. I'm talking a lot about 626 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 1: responsibility versus bravery, you know. And you imagine my fourteen 627 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 1: year old kid on the playground, he sees a fight 628 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 1: in the playground, if it would be brave to break 629 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,120 Speaker 1: up that fight and to tell him. We could it 630 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 1: in the context like be brave and stand up for 631 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 1: what's right and bring up that fight, or we can 632 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 1: put in the context of like you are a citizen 633 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 1: of the world and you have to be responsible for 634 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 1: for justice and you just have to do it. And 635 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:14,480 Speaker 1: that's kind of how I view the role of brands. 636 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 1: It's like, it's not about brave, it's about being responsible 637 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 1: to a code that you committed to, whether that's through 638 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 1: your consumers, or that's in your charter or that's your board, 639 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,280 Speaker 1: and that's what you're really meant to help yourself up 640 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,600 Speaker 1: to before you go. Um. We play a game at 641 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,960 Speaker 1: the end of every episode Alan if you could get 642 00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,160 Speaker 1: rid of anything in the world, what would it be? 643 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:39,480 Speaker 1: Oh man, can we be abstractors have to be like physical? Nope, nope, 644 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 1: abstract anything I think. I think bias. I can put 645 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: it that way. I mean, and it's not revolutionary, but 646 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 1: we all carry so much bias from that we inherit 647 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 1: and that we are socialized. Um. I experienced it every day, 648 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:57,480 Speaker 1: not only as a victim, but also as a practitioner 649 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 1: keep someone with bias, UM, And I often wonder what 650 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:03,959 Speaker 1: would the world look like if it was just, you know, 651 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 1: people were less inclined to favor of the things that 652 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:08,719 Speaker 1: they're used they've been told to favor. I think my 653 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:12,239 Speaker 1: life would be different. Um. You know, not only again 654 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 1: as evictive, but also as a practitioner of it. What 655 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,279 Speaker 1: would you buy If I could buy anything, I'd buy 656 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,719 Speaker 1: the ability not to buy anything. I'd truly buy a 657 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:22,839 Speaker 1: sense of freedom so that I never had to buy 658 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,959 Speaker 1: anything again or buy you know, time, and by time, 659 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 1: I would buy time. And what would you do yourself? Yeah? 660 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,720 Speaker 1: Good question. UM. I mean, if I was a better person, 661 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,920 Speaker 1: I would truly kind of sacrifice my own which is 662 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 1: and agendas that put those of others above mine, and 663 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,160 Speaker 1: I would actually work on behalf of other people. Thank 664 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 1: you for making the time, Thank you for coming on 665 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,439 Speaker 1: when I first saw Sylvain, And the more I've talked 666 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 1: to people, You're kind of one of those consultancies and 667 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:59,359 Speaker 1: partners that if you know, you know, and UM, I'm 668 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,920 Speaker 1: hoping that all lot more people discover you and they 669 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:06,880 Speaker 1: get to know if people want to talk all things Sylvain, 670 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,920 Speaker 1: product brand or anything in between. How can our listeners 671 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,000 Speaker 1: get in touch with you? Yeah, thanks for asking and 672 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:16,239 Speaker 1: thanks for that, Alex. It's awesome, um Sylvain dot com 673 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 1: where you can find us, UM and yeah on the internets. 674 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:23,399 Speaker 1: So great to get a chance to talk to you, 675 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:25,719 Speaker 1: and thank you so much. UM. I hope you'll come 676 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 1: back and visit us again. Soon. Yeah, and I hope 677 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:35,000 Speaker 1: to see you in person, both of you said Laura, 678 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,080 Speaker 1: I could have gone on with the land for a while. 679 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:41,360 Speaker 1: I actually do believe that there is a structure of 680 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:45,160 Speaker 1: a brand that is changing fundamentally. But the thing that 681 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:48,200 Speaker 1: I think not a lot of folks are talking about 682 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:53,640 Speaker 1: is aligning your brand if you're on the client side 683 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 1: with an agency that has purpose, with an agency that 684 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:03,560 Speaker 1: is actually potentially making you better, not just in your creativity, 685 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:07,279 Speaker 1: not just in your strategy, not just for you, but 686 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,880 Speaker 1: also making you better because they are choosing to be better. 687 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 1: And I think what Allen has done with you know, 688 00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:18,200 Speaker 1: the more tangible example of becoming a be corp. I'm 689 00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:20,960 Speaker 1: pushing himself there when a lot of agencies weren't. But 690 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:25,759 Speaker 1: also the way he works in terms of really acknowledging clients. 691 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:28,560 Speaker 1: What I am going to be doing in the future 692 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:31,920 Speaker 1: is really looking at where can I help my clients 693 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:36,320 Speaker 1: become more conscious and better and more thoughtful by doing 694 00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,279 Speaker 1: business with me? You are better by doing business with 695 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:43,040 Speaker 1: me exactly. So on that note, here's to being shareholders 696 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:46,520 Speaker 1: in doing better business at Landia. Laura hit it with 697 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:48,360 Speaker 1: a list of all of our friends and family. I 698 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,640 Speaker 1: heart who have been so good at us and helped 699 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:55,120 Speaker 1: us get back on Eric. Thank you to Bob Donald Carter, Andy, Eric, 700 00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:58,440 Speaker 1: Gayle Val, Michael Jen We appreciate you. Thank you so 701 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,200 Speaker 1: much for this opportunity. We'll see in two weeks.