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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio. Man, Welcome back to Coast to Coast George

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Speaker 1: Norri back with Rod Pile as we talk about space.

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Speaker 1: His books are by the way on his website, so

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Speaker 1: make sure you go to the Coast to Coast dam

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Speaker 1: dot com website and get the link directly there. What

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Speaker 1: was your latest book, Rod? Was it Space two point

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Speaker 1: old or do you have anyone out now? I'm working

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Speaker 1: on a couple more. Space two point oh was the

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Speaker 1: last one, and it actually has been adopted by the

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Speaker 1: Air Force and Space Force, among other places, as a textbook,

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Speaker 1: which surprised me pleasantly. I must say, do you ever

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Speaker 1: see a country trying to take stay claim to the

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Speaker 1: moon or portions of it? You know, that's a really

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Speaker 1: fascinating question. And we're right on the cuspacying that. So

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Speaker 1: we've got NASA, which is leading the free world. We've

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Speaker 1: drafted the Artemis Accords. We've got twenty three countries in

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Speaker 1: one territory that have signed, so they've picked up a

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Speaker 1: lot of support around the world. China and Russia didn't

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Speaker 1: see it that way. China, we're we're prescribed from doing

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Speaker 1: business with them by ear and other legal regiments. And Russia.

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Speaker 1: You know, we're in that uncomfortable spot with Russia where

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Speaker 1: we're still doing the space station together, but we're practically

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Speaker 1: each other's throats on the ground. So the Chinese and

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Speaker 1: the Russians have started a partnership to build their own

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Speaker 1: station on the Moon, their own research base. Not as

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Speaker 1: many people signing on for that, so you know there's

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Speaker 1: going to be a scramble. It's a little bit like

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Speaker 1: the Gold Rush again, because as I said, there's water, ice, glass, metal,

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Speaker 1: oxygen in the soil, maybe even helium three if we

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Speaker 1: ever figure out how to use that. Every us So

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Speaker 1: what we kind of would like to see some of

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Speaker 1: us anyway, it's some kind of agreement sort of modeled

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Speaker 1: on what we've done in the Antarctic. You know, everybody

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Speaker 1: can share the territory, but nobody claims that. Another analogy

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Speaker 1: would be, you know, if we're looking at the ocean,

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Speaker 1: let me keep the fish I pull up. I don't

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Speaker 1: want to own the water. But we don't know what's

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Speaker 1: going to happen. Will there ever be a battle on

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Speaker 1: the moon, a war? You know, America's in one way

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Speaker 1: or another prepared for that since the nineteen fifties, Werner

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Speaker 1: Van Brown was commissioned by the Army to do a

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Speaker 1: study called Project Horizon, which is going to put between

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Speaker 1: twelve and twenty soldiers in the Moon in a base

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Speaker 1: probably just miles away from one that the Reds would build.

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Speaker 1: And we had lunar claymore minds and nuclear bazookas that

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Speaker 1: we were going to carry up there. Obviously you never

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Speaker 1: did it. We did Apollo instead. But you know, we

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Speaker 1: as recently as the second season of that show on

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Speaker 1: Apple TV for All Mankind, we've seen what that might

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Speaker 1: look like. It's hard to imagine, you know. The thing is,

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Speaker 1: when you're in a situation like that, I mean, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it makes the Antarctic look like a stroll in the park. Anything.

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Speaker 1: Everything out there wants to kill you. Anything can. So

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Speaker 1: you've got these temper swings anywhere from two d plus

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Speaker 1: degrees very high above zero. It's a two hundred plus

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Speaker 1: below a hard vacuum, radiation. There's all kinds of ways

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Speaker 1: to die. So I'd like to think that humans on

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Speaker 1: the Moon would pull together and say, look, let's not

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Speaker 1: do this. It's just hard enough being here. Let's try

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Speaker 1: and learn to work together and share. But as you

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Speaker 1: know as well as I, that doesn't seem to be

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Speaker 1: the biggest part of our basic nature. Why did the

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Speaker 1: Soviet Union now just Russia just basically stop doing everything

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Speaker 1: other than the space caps space station? Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: money and infrastructure. You know, their infrastructure was arguably better

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Speaker 1: during the Soviet Union days. They are not well set

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Speaker 1: for money, especially under current circumstances. Their budget is only

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Speaker 1: about a tenth of the US is for space flight,

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Speaker 1: and their hardware is old. You know, the Soyuz capsules

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Speaker 1: that they're still using to develop to deliver their cosmonauts

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Speaker 1: to the space station. They leaky, yes they do. They

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Speaker 1: keep blaming on our meteoroids, but yeah, that one's getting

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Speaker 1: a little harder to believe. And those things were first

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Speaker 1: designed in like nineteen sixty three. Now that gives you

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Speaker 1: a chance to really refine a design. But it's old

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Speaker 1: and its dated. They've been working on updates, but they

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Speaker 1: just don't have the money, and they've got a terrible

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Speaker 1: amount of expertise drain. You know, it's bizarre too, run

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Speaker 1: we got to the Moon with sixty year old technology. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean you would think with what we have today

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Speaker 1: we could get there like that. Well, and you know,

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Speaker 1: one part of that is the way we do business.

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Speaker 1: So for decades, both NASA and the military did cost

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Speaker 1: plus contracting with the major aircraft aerospace contractors. So here's

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Speaker 1: the amount of money we're going to pay you to

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Speaker 1: build the rocket or the capsule, and then we'll pay

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Speaker 1: you on top of that for your trouble. And that

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Speaker 1: gets very expensive. And that's how four million dollar capsule,

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Speaker 1: four billion dollar capsule becomes at eight or ten billion

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Speaker 1: dollar capsule and so forth. So now NASA is moving

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Speaker 1: on to fixed price, which is what they're doing with

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Speaker 1: SpaceX and Blue Origin and Maxar and some of these

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Speaker 1: other companies are building lunar landers and transport rockets and

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Speaker 1: space stations to replace the ISS when the time comes.

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Speaker 1: So it's like, here's the amount, and you better figure

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Speaker 1: out how to do it for that, and if you

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Speaker 1: need more, you've got to have a really good reason.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, Congress is going to be watching

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Speaker 1: everything you do. Well, that's worked out really well, and

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Speaker 1: even by NASA's own estimations, for instance, on the SpaceX side,

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Speaker 1: it's cost using SpaceX to get astronauts back and forth

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Speaker 1: our space station in the International Space Station costs how

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Speaker 1: you depending on how you prior to the numbers, out

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Speaker 1: between half and a tenth of what it costs to

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Speaker 1: do with the old way. It is something going on

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Speaker 1: with NASA. They seem to have lost a luster. I

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Speaker 1: remember in my school days, every kid wanted to be

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Speaker 1: an astronaut. Everybody knew about NASA. We you know, we

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Speaker 1: knew the mission. Now it seems like it's non existent.

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Speaker 1: You know, I could see where you'd say that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm a little biased because I work at the NASA

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Speaker 1: Field Center out here in La Jeff Postal Laboratory. Kids

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Speaker 1: don't talk about NASA. Well, you know, they're starting to.

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Speaker 1: I mean NASA. Interestingly, if you look at polls, they

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Speaker 1: are favored by the public about the same as they

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Speaker 1: were in the sixties, seventies, and eighties. It's about fifty

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Speaker 1: fifty depending on what question you asked. We say as

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Speaker 1: NASA cool, as NASA awesome, as NASA the fifth best

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Speaker 1: brand in the planet, and they go yeah. And when

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Speaker 1: you say should we go back to the moon, about

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Speaker 1: fifteen percent say yeah. The rest don't. But I think

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Speaker 1: we're going to see a renaissance, you know, One of

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Speaker 1: the things I wrote about in Space two point zero

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Speaker 1: is this new arrangement of NASA using private business to

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Speaker 1: do the heavy lifting and the boring stuff, and to

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Speaker 1: let NASA go out and forge new territories and do

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Speaker 1: research to support the really exciting things, because after they're

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Speaker 1: best at so I think if they're free from doing

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Speaker 1: basic transportation and can really use their vision to look

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Speaker 1: forward to things like building infrastructure and getting a commercial

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Speaker 1: market going and lower to orbit it's this lunar space

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Speaker 1: out by the Moon, then you've really got something and

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Speaker 1: that's where the magic will be. Rod. What do you

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Speaker 1: think of those tic tac videos that we're taken off

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Speaker 1: the Navy aircraft carriers, that we couldn't just find out

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Speaker 1: what these things are? Yeah, I scratch my head. I

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Speaker 1: mean there's you know, to look at those things, your

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Speaker 1: first response has got to be, well, yeah, those are

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Speaker 1: not of this earth. But I've seen some very good writing,

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Speaker 1: and you know, some of it's based on military leaks

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Speaker 1: and some of it's just based on the conjecture by

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Speaker 1: academics and so forth that there there's as you know,

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Speaker 1: there's a school of thought that says these are foreign

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Speaker 1: actors on the Earth that are using sophisticated electronics drones,

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Speaker 1: probably to spoof a battle fleet, so for instance, a

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Speaker 1: carrier task force. So this thing rises out of the

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Speaker 1: water or drops down from from higher up in the atmosphere,

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Speaker 1: hits the carrier group or the aircraft that are flying

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Speaker 1: near there with this bizarre em signal, and then sits

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Speaker 1: back and collects data on how we react to a threat,

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Speaker 1: both in terms of radar sweet and how we dispatch jets.

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Speaker 1: That's very valuable intel. And you know, there's reason to

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Speaker 1: think that that might be what that Chinese balloon was doing,

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Speaker 1: was monitoring electromagnetic emissions because that's easier to do from

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Speaker 1: that altitude in space, right, So you know, that's that

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Speaker 1: makes sense to me, But you've got to keep an

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Speaker 1: open mind. It could be anything. If it is that,

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Speaker 1: then there's a division within government, something that is very

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Speaker 1: secret and quiet doing some very strange things well, or

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Speaker 1: just not letting us know for their perceptions and national

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Speaker 1: security that you know, we're already sort of fighting this

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Speaker 1: silent even letting our pilots know. Yeah, yeah, exactly, And

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Speaker 1: you know, it is good to see this info coming out,

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Speaker 1: and I loud NASA for this new study that they're doing,

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Speaker 1: as you probably know, they've they've gathered now, they don't

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Speaker 1: have much money, and they've only got nine months to

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Speaker 1: do it. I think there's about five months left, but

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Speaker 1: they got They gathered academics, professors of astrophysics, physics, and engineering,

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Speaker 1: people from the FAA, former NASA officials, other NASA officials, oceanographers, biologists,

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Speaker 1: journalists and really looking at the unclassified UAPUFOW material and

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Speaker 1: saying not so much what is it, but how can

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Speaker 1: we study this better and come up with better results

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Speaker 1: and be transparent about it to the public. And I

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Speaker 1: think that's really important. What are your thoughts are out

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Speaker 1: on extraterrestrial life out there? I'm not gonna ask you

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Speaker 1: yet about here, but out there, I think it's an inevitability.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you've seen the number. You know how the

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Speaker 1: Fermi paradoxes, Oh absolutely work better than I do. You know,

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Speaker 1: It's just it's a seeming impossibility. The question in my

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Speaker 1: mind is how far and how soon and what are

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Speaker 1: we going to find? I mean, I fully expect before

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Speaker 1: I shuffle off this mortal coil in a decade or

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Speaker 1: three for us to have found something either on Mars

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Speaker 1: currently existing or past, probably microbial, and or in the

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Speaker 1: oceans of the icy moons with those warm motions below

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Speaker 1: by Saturn and Jupiter. Beyond that, your guess is probably

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Speaker 1: better than mine because you talk about it every night.

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Speaker 1: There's there's too many eye witness testimonies of strange visitations

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Speaker 1: and things. I mean, even if ninety nine percent of

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Speaker 1: them were making it up, there's that one percent telling

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Speaker 1: the truth. And it's bizarre, it really is. And one

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Speaker 1: of the things that I always come back to is

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Speaker 1: wherever they're coming from. If they're coming here, it's a

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Speaker 1: long trip. So even if you've got warp speed, unless

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Speaker 1: you're teleporting or doing some kind of dimensional transition or something,

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Speaker 1: it's a long trip. Are we that interesting that they

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Speaker 1: really want to come here and live amongst us and

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Speaker 1: learn and share? Maybe we are, or maybe life is

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Speaker 1: just that rare and precious that it would make sense.

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Speaker 1: But I tell you, you know, getting back to this

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Speaker 1: balloon thing, there have been people postulating that might have

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Speaker 1: been a UFO. If these guys are smart enough to

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Speaker 1: travel forty or fifty light years to come visit us,

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Speaker 1: and then they get taken out by an air breathing

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Speaker 1: jet with a skyrocket. I'm going to be really disappointed. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: me too, Me too. I think they have learned how

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Speaker 1: to bend space and time so they get from point

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Speaker 1: from point A to point B instantly somehow. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: it almost makes more sense for me to see one

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Speaker 1: of these creatures coming out of my closet than landing

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Speaker 1: in a field behind my house. Right. It's fantastic stuff, though, rude,

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Speaker 1: isn't it? Absolutely what keeps driving you. I love what

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Speaker 1: I do. I mean, I haven't since I've been working

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Speaker 1: on the Adaster magazine, and I've now got a new

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Speaker 1: podcast called This Week in Space I do with the

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Speaker 1: executive editorspace dot Com. I just love doing it every day,

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Speaker 1: and there's so much stuff happening. As you mentioned earlier,

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Speaker 1: there was this lull with NASA and efforts we were

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Speaker 1: stuck in low Earth orbit. We're really moving along now.

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Speaker 1: Private industry is going great guns, and it's just an exciting,

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Speaker 1: as hacked time to be alive. We're going to take

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Speaker 1: calls next hour with Rod File, so jump on board

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Speaker 1: and ask questions about things in space that we've been

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Speaker 1: talking about. And his website is linked up at coast

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Speaker 1: to coastam dot com. And your books are all still available,

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Speaker 1: aren't they rod most of them. Yeah. If you can't

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Speaker 1: get them new, you can get them used for a

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Speaker 1: couple of bucks. And there's no better deal than that.

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Speaker 1: What about water on the Moon, isn't there? Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: in the form of ice what we've seen so far,

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Speaker 1: but there's a lot of it, mostly in the polls,

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Speaker 1: but all so in regions heading up towards the equator,

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Speaker 1: in these areas called permanently shadowed regions, And if they're

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Speaker 1: for the taking, and you know, because you don't have

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Speaker 1: to launch it off of Earth, it is such an

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Speaker 1: incredible bonanza because you can do so much with it

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Speaker 1: up there, among other things, as I mentioned, making rocket fuel.

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Speaker 1: So it just makes so much sense financially to go

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Speaker 1: out there, get it, process it, and use it to

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Speaker 1: move on to Mars and beyond. That's the goal. How

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Speaker 1: did it get to the Moon? We think comets probably

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Speaker 1: just delivered and blasted it in there. Yeah, because the

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Speaker 1: early Solar system was a really crummy place to be.

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Speaker 1: There were rocks and comets and big chunks of ice

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Speaker 1: flying all over the Oh my god, everything was getting

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Speaker 1: hit all the time. Yeah, there was this period called bombardment,

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Speaker 1: late and early bombardment, and that's why the far side

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Speaker 1: of the Moon, for instance, looks as bad as it

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Speaker 1: does because of constantly being smacked by things. It's just

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Speaker 1: a massive craters, overlapping creators over that big creators. So

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Speaker 1: a lot of those were from asteroids, a lot of

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Speaker 1: them were from comets, and we think that the comets

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Speaker 1: were carried a lot of that primoritial water, and that's

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Speaker 1: what we're going to find there. I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of comets delivered water to good old planet Earth too.

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Speaker 1: What do you think of that? Oh? Yeah, absolutely. And

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Speaker 1: the difference here was, of course, because it was volcanically

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Speaker 1: active and hot at the core. Everything just keeps getting

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Speaker 1: chewed up and spit out and chewed up and spit

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Speaker 1: out over the eons, and that's why we've seen such

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Speaker 1: a different environment here. Do you think the Moon has

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Speaker 1: a hot core or is it just the dead? I

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Speaker 1: don't know. There are two schools of thought prevailing. One

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Speaker 1: seems to be that it's probably cold and not much

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Speaker 1: going on there, And of course during Apollo, one of

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Speaker 1: the things that we're trying to figure out is how

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Speaker 1: much active volcanism went on, if any for how long?

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Speaker 1: But that's why we want to get back there. You know,

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Speaker 1: we only explored during Apollo with those six landings. We

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Speaker 1: only explored in the area about the size of a

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Speaker 1: small to medium sized town, So there's a lot the

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Speaker 1: territory left the cover. It's not have been there, done

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Speaker 1: that thing. And we didn't spend that much time when

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Speaker 1: we landed. When we took the missions to the Moon,

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Speaker 1: how long did we stay max a day on the

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Speaker 1: surface two to three days, Yeah, and with just you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe sixteen to eighteen twenty total hours of EBA. Listen

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Speaker 1: to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at one

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Speaker 1: am Eastern and go to Coast to Coast am dot

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Speaker 1: com for more