Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Mark mass Show,
Speaker 1: where we're talking about the decentralized revolution, of course, each
Speaker 1: and every week, looking at through the lens of politics, finance,
Speaker 1: and technology, and that technology is of course bitcoin that's
Speaker 1: changing the world. You know. I'd like to bring to
Speaker 1: you some education to change the way you think about money,
Speaker 1: some late breaking news you can see the play by play,
Speaker 1: and of course some interesting guests. You don't have to
Speaker 1: listen to me all the time. And today I am
Speaker 1: joined by Ben Askern. He is an Olympian, an MMA champion,
Speaker 1: and yeah he's also a bitcoiner. Ben, thanks so much
Speaker 1: for joining me today.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, thanks for having me. I feel like a
Speaker 2: veteran bitcoinner now because I've been in since twenty seventeen,
Speaker 2: and that's you know, in the beginning, it felt like
Speaker 2: I was late, which I think everyone thinks they feel
Speaker 2: like they're late. But now I feel like a veteran.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I had the very first interview I did in studio,
Speaker 1: I had Mike Tyson in here and I said, did
Speaker 1: you really say, you know, everyone has a plan take
Speaker 1: a punched in the face, And he said he did.
Speaker 1: And so in regards to that, I mean, you're an
Speaker 1: MMA athlete, olympian even punching the face a bud. Is
Speaker 1: that sort of like going through these bear markets that
Speaker 1: you've gone through now a couple of times.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's great because now, yeah, I'm at the
Speaker 2: point where it is kind of like numb. I actually
Speaker 2: don't look at the price all that often. I'm not
Speaker 2: gonna sell. It's not going to phase me. You know.
Speaker 2: I didn't sell the first time around though, either, And
Speaker 2: I got in kind of like when everything was going
Speaker 2: nuts in twenty seventeen, and I watched it rise to
Speaker 2: the top and I probably you know, say three or
Speaker 2: four x whatever money I put in, and then obviously crashed,
Speaker 2: and I watched it crash, and then the second time around,
Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, I think that's gonna happen again.
Speaker 2: And I had a plan to sell in the quarter
Speaker 2: four of twenty twenty one and then reby at the bottom,
Speaker 2: and I just didn't think sixteen nine was gonna be
Speaker 2: the top. So I never sold anything. And then you know,
Speaker 2: when it started going down, I'm like, well, I guess
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna just keep holding, and uh, you know,
Speaker 2: now I'm sure next bull market I'm gonna time it right.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna sell a little bit and then'm gonna rebuy
Speaker 2: the bottom. Not too much much, just a little bit.
Speaker 1: You know, I have the same story now I'm I'm
Speaker 1: going to you know, been full disclaimer. I'm the same
Speaker 1: I held after the twenty seventeen bull run and into
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen. However, I'll admit I did have a little regret.
Speaker 1: I was like, dang, look how much I could have
Speaker 1: had if I was tolled back. And now it's like
Speaker 1: and you know, then it was like will it ever
Speaker 1: come back? You know, did I miss my one chance?
Speaker 1: And will it? Will it never come back? Sort of
Speaker 1: a thing. And then exactly just like you you know, historically,
Speaker 1: which is not a lot of history, but the market
Speaker 1: kind of peaks at eighteen months past having which put
Speaker 1: it in November of you know, twenty twenty one, and
Speaker 1: it was like, no, this can't be it. It's got
Speaker 1: to be one hundred and twenty one hundred and fifty.
Speaker 1: No way, it's at sixty five. So, you know, Michael
Speaker 1: Saylor with is like all your all your models are broken,
Speaker 1: so to speak. The institutional adoption, No, this can't be it,
Speaker 1: And sure enough, November twenty twenty one, like right on
Speaker 1: the money, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so I figured this time, you know, because
Speaker 2: there's also like, well will the cycle model break or
Speaker 2: we'll would be a longer cycle. You know, there was
Speaker 2: all those narratives in the last cycle, and now it's like, well,
Speaker 2: you know, it's eighteen months past having this time, I'm
Speaker 2: going to sell some. I'm not gonna sell that much.
Speaker 2: And you know what, if it keeps going up, I'll
Speaker 2: probably still be happy anyways, and that goes down, then
Speaker 2: I'll be prepared to buy some more. So kind of
Speaker 2: either way, I view it as a win. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think you know, one thing, when you
Speaker 1: if you go to like the bitcoin conference or I
Speaker 1: spoke at bit block Boom a few weeks ago, like
Speaker 1: nobody there is talking about the price, Like there's just
Speaker 1: no not not really a relevant topic of conversation for
Speaker 1: most people. And so it's sort of like this kind
Speaker 1: of like weight and see type of a thing. You know,
Speaker 1: you being an MMA champion, like you've worked hard for
Speaker 1: you know, most of your life to achieve a level
Speaker 1: of success. So I'm sure that's kind of giving you
Speaker 1: like this long term perspective that probably helps you today
Speaker 1: versus like a lot of these like short term like
Speaker 1: gamblers that come in. Would you say that might.
Speaker 2: Be huh, you know, I kind of obviously, you know,
Speaker 2: whether it's wrestling or fighting or anything else. Being an athlete,
Speaker 2: you realize I'm going to have to make some sacrifices
Speaker 2: to have more what I want later. Right. That's a
Speaker 2: kind of mature mindset that sport puts you in, is
Speaker 2: I'm going to sacrifice now because I want to get
Speaker 2: something later, which is kind of the same thing with this.
Speaker 2: But I think also the more the more and more
Speaker 2: I read about bitcoin, I told you my goals read
Speaker 2: fifty books this year, and obviously quite a few of
Speaker 2: them have been bitcoin books. You just realize what's wrong
Speaker 2: with the Fiat system, and you realize what's wrong with money,
Speaker 2: and you realize bitcoin is just a better money than
Speaker 2: anything else that they've made before. And I can't guarantee
Speaker 2: you it's going to win, but I think it has
Speaker 2: the best chance. And so if I just hold on
Speaker 2: long enough, I'm probably gonna be doing pretty well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when you were saying that, I love this quote
Speaker 1: from Muhammad Ali and he said suffer now and live
Speaker 1: and live the rest of my life as a champion. Right,
Speaker 1: so sort of that embraced the suck today, right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I think in regards to that, it is
Speaker 1: certainly better. Now, the best product doesn't always win, and
Speaker 1: so typically un CD incumbent, you have to be way
Speaker 1: better than just better. And so that's why I like
Speaker 1: a better version of Twitter, better version of whatever. That
Speaker 1: doesn't really gain traction, but when you're a thousand times better,
Speaker 1: it does. And I think that's what bitcoin is, right,
Speaker 1: It's a thousand times better, and a lot of people
Speaker 1: don't realize it, but like, you know, what's the utility.
Speaker 1: It's like, well, if you need to send money to
Speaker 1: somebody in Afghanistan, there's utility, right, if you live in
Speaker 1: North Korea, like there's utility in the United States. It's
Speaker 1: hard for us to see that. But it is a
Speaker 1: thousand times better. It can do things that nothing else
Speaker 1: can do. So from that standpoint, I feel like we
Speaker 1: just have to be patient.
Speaker 2: Yes, I think that's it, And I think especially especially Americans,
Speaker 2: they kind of don't see a lot of the use cases, right.
Speaker 2: I Mean I talked about I traveled to Asia a
Speaker 2: bunch because I fought in one championship, and a big
Speaker 2: thing over there is the remittance market. That's the thing
Speaker 2: for most Americans. They don't recognize why it's important on
Speaker 2: you know, without Salvador, it's hugely important. And there's a
Speaker 2: whole bunch of these things are like, well, we're finally
Speaker 2: feeling inflation in America, which I'm sure is not going
Speaker 2: to stop anytime soon. And you know, but you go
Speaker 2: to some place like Argentina where the money doesn't hold value,
Speaker 2: or Turkey, you know, oh wow, well that's another use case. Right.
Speaker 2: So there's all these use cases that are out there
Speaker 2: that I think a lot of Americans don't really recognize yet. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: When I was speaking of this event a few weeks ago,
Speaker 1: as I said in Austin bit block Boom, talking to
Speaker 1: a bunch of people, and I kind of I just
Speaker 1: kind of had this realization that unfortunately, the saying is
Speaker 1: smooth seas never made a skilled sailor, right, success is
Speaker 1: a horrible teacher. And so because we don't have that
Speaker 1: problem with our money here, most times people are just like,
Speaker 1: what do we needed for? And like we almost need this,
Speaker 1: I don't I don't want it. Unfortunately, I think this
Speaker 1: is where we're going. But we need this adversarial take
Speaker 1: of where the government. You know, the more the government's squeeze,
Speaker 1: the more they try to censor, the more Bitcoin shines.
Speaker 1: And so unfortunately we need that for bitcoin to re
Speaker 1: kind of achieve its potential. I don't want it, but
Speaker 1: but I feel it's coming, and so you know, everyone's
Speaker 1: going to learn at some point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and those of us who are able to see
Speaker 2: it ahead of time are probably gonna be the ones
Speaker 2: who benefit the most, and both from being able to
Speaker 2: have it and use it when we need it, but
Speaker 2: also from the price is inevitably going to go up.
Speaker 1: Also, Yeah, how did you first get introduced to it?
Speaker 2: It was one of my college dressing bodies. I was
Speaker 2: actually a fight one of my colle dressing teammates. He
Speaker 2: lived in Australia for a while. I was a geologist
Speaker 2: and he would come to my fights when I was
Speaker 2: an Asia a bunch And you know, I had voted
Speaker 2: for Ron Paul in twenty twelve. I had read end
Speaker 2: the FED. I had understood the issue with fiat currency.
Speaker 2: I mean, there's a lot of people that get a
Speaker 2: bitcoin right because you hear about it, You're like, wait, oh,
Speaker 2: it can fix this problem, and it can fix this problem. Right,
Speaker 2: And if you don't see, if you don't see any problems,
Speaker 2: if you're not aware of them, then you're like, well,
Speaker 2: I already have money. Do I need a different money?
Speaker 2: Why do I need that? You know? But when you're
Speaker 2: like you've read and the fed or it's like you
Speaker 2: see it, you're like, oh wait. So it was like
Speaker 2: the first aid told me. I'm like, oh, how do
Speaker 2: I get how do I get some of that?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: At that point, I think coinbase had something where you
Speaker 2: could only buy like four thousand dollars a week, right,
Speaker 2: and that's uh, you know. So I was buying like
Speaker 2: four thousand dollars a week for a while, and obviously
Speaker 2: I had cointer phase. I bought a bunch of that.
Speaker 1: Went to zero, no did I.
Speaker 2: So like everyone did, and it was funny how hard
Speaker 2: it was, and people talk about and it is a
Speaker 2: little bit hard stealing inaccessible, but like back then, I
Speaker 2: think it was like something called ether delta or something
Speaker 2: and you had to, you know, buy ethereum and they
Speaker 2: had to send a set of theoreum somewhere else and
Speaker 2: then you had to send to ether delta and then
Speaker 2: you had to make purchase orders. You know, it was
Speaker 2: wild how you get stuff back then.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, same, same kind of thing. And I
Speaker 1: wasn't really aware of the problem. I became a goldbug
Speaker 1: after two thousand and eight. I was on calln the
Speaker 1: FED campaign as well, not on it, but but on
Speaker 1: board with it, and so I was already aware of
Speaker 1: the problem. I thought gold was a solution, and when
Speaker 1: I saw this, I was like, oh, there we go.
Speaker 1: And to your point, you know, most people just aren't
Speaker 1: aware of the problem, so of course they're not looking
Speaker 1: for a solution. If you're just tuning in, you're listening
Speaker 1: to the Mark Moss Show. I'm sitting down with Ben Askern.
Speaker 1: He's an MMA champion, he's an Olympian, and he's even
Speaker 1: a bitcoiner, and he's a Ron Paul fan. Even we're
Speaker 1: running through a whole bunch of stuff. We're going to
Speaker 1: take a very very short break. We're going to be
Speaker 1: right back with more in a second. You don't want
Speaker 1: to miss this. It don't go away. We're going to
Speaker 1: be right back, all right, Welcome back. If you're just
Speaker 1: tune in, you're listening to the Mark Moss Show, sitting
Speaker 1: down with Ben Askern, MMA athlete, a champion Olympian, and
Speaker 1: a bitcoiner. Now, before the break been you were saying,
Speaker 1: how surprising maybe to me and probably most people, being
Speaker 1: a being a meathead wrestler, MMA guy whatever, Like you're
Speaker 1: reading Ron Paul back in like you know whatever, twenty
Speaker 1: ten eleven whatever that was like. And you were telling
Speaker 1: me before we started recording that you're you have a
Speaker 1: goal this year to actually read fifty books. So you're
Speaker 1: actually quite a reader. Yes, why fifty books? I mean,
Speaker 1: what what have you read in the past? I mean,
Speaker 1: have you read twenty five or fifty books a year
Speaker 1: in the past? What's that school all about?
Speaker 2: Let's see, I think I think I can move this. Hopefully,
Speaker 2: I hope I'll mess up the whole podcast. But if
Speaker 2: you want to look like my.
Speaker 1: Uh oh, here we go.
Speaker 2: Oh you can see my library is over there.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, right.
Speaker 2: So I've always been I've always been a reader, just
Speaker 2: you know, ever since I was a kid. I in
Speaker 2: the beginning, I liked reading about athletes, athlete biographies, that
Speaker 2: type of stuff, and then you know, you venture down
Speaker 2: different rabbit holes. I actually don't even know I could.
Speaker 2: You said, Ben, how'd you get into Ron Paul, start
Speaker 2: reading his stuff, I would say, I have no idea.
Speaker 2: I stumbled upon it one time and and if I think,
Speaker 2: if you're if you're logical, it makes a lot of sense, right,
Speaker 2: it resonates with you. And yeah, so I mean went
Speaker 2: down that rabbit hole and I voted for Ron Paul
Speaker 2: eight or twelve or somewhere in that time period. You
Speaker 2: know when, man, he would have been the best president,
Speaker 2: or he would have killed it so hard. But obviously,
Speaker 2: you know, as we're seeing, like with RFK Junior, the
Speaker 2: government machine, the RNC and the DNC, you know they
Speaker 2: don't want to let outsider candidates into the real races.
Speaker 2: But man, he would have been great. I actually got
Speaker 2: that dinner with him at the l like one convention
Speaker 2: in twenty nineteen. It was the best.
Speaker 1: How do you go from like being a strong Ron
Speaker 1: Paul supporter wishing he could have been president he would
Speaker 1: have been the best to now you threw out RFK
Speaker 1: like is he somebody that you could see yourself voting for?
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Yeah. I'm pretty open about my politics. I've voted
Speaker 2: for Donald Trump in twenty sixteen, twenty twenty, and I
Speaker 2: think for me that outsider. It just kind of that's
Speaker 2: That's what I'm feeling, is like we need someone else
Speaker 2: who's outside the system, and Trump was, you know, people
Speaker 2: don't like him, but he was absolutely outside the system.
Speaker 2: RFK he makes so much sense. I mean, I listened
Speaker 2: to him at Bitcoin Miami and just his speech was
Speaker 2: so good and you could tell he fully understand bitcoin.
Speaker 2: And we talked about some of the other issues, but
Speaker 2: we didn't talk about the freedom component, and that was
Speaker 2: the one he really focused on and he really understands that.
Speaker 2: To you, Vivic is another guy, which he was not
Speaker 2: as compelling as RFK. To me, he was good. He's
Speaker 2: actually really good on Twitter, really makes some good points,
Speaker 2: but in person he wasn't quite as good as RFK.
Speaker 2: So yes, I could see myself voting for RFK. I
Speaker 2: don't think they're gonna learn it be the candidate. I
Speaker 2: just don't think that's gonna happen.
Speaker 1: Well, I asked only because I've never I've never voted
Speaker 1: Democrat in my life, but now all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I could probably vote for r FK too,
Speaker 1: just because to your point, he makes sense and he's
Speaker 1: like pro freedom, Like that's what we want and it
Speaker 1: sort of it sort of highlights this battle of we
Speaker 1: the people versus the government. Right, yes, Like it's not
Speaker 1: left or right, man, I just want someone that's gonna
Speaker 1: like be for smaller government, Like that's such a bad thing, right.
Speaker 1: Vivic's great too. I've had him on the show. He's
Speaker 1: so well spoken.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 1: That guy is so sharp.
Speaker 2: Man, he really sharp.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you this is like almost like he was
Speaker 2: speaking as friends and no one's listening to this. Is
Speaker 2: that I just I got too much of politician y vibes.
Speaker 2: When I listened to Vivid at Bitcoin Miami, it felt like, hey,
Speaker 2: he's got a list of eight checkpoints he wants to
Speaker 2: hit and it's boom boom boom, boom boom, And it
Speaker 2: kind of lacked the depth that RFK had, you know,
Speaker 2: And so when you had to compare the two, when
Speaker 2: you listen to both, it was just like, as a bitcoiner,
Speaker 2: RFK was so much more compelling to me.
Speaker 1: I agree, he does come off too polished, where it's
Speaker 1: almost like slimy salesperson. Not that I'm saying that, but
Speaker 1: what I'd say is that Vivic does all that on
Speaker 1: his own, like from memory whereas like RFK had someone
Speaker 1: write a speech for him, Like so like that's like
Speaker 1: that's a big difference, so keep that in mind. But yeah,
Speaker 1: Vivid is like his whole thing was like I want
Speaker 1: to challenge everybody. No one shows up with any notes,
Speaker 1: no teleprompters, Let's just go just us Like that's kind
Speaker 1: of his deal. Yeah, but well anyway, it's it's interesting.
Speaker 1: I want to ask you about something else. Well, actually,
Speaker 1: before I do, let's just jump back to the books
Speaker 1: for a minute. So fifty books a year. I started
Speaker 1: this thing. It was I was watching breed Love's podcast
Speaker 1: and you had this young kid on that talk like
Speaker 1: five hundred miles an hour, and he was talking about
Speaker 1: like reading and listening at the same time. Wo. And
Speaker 1: so I've started to download audible books and buy them,
Speaker 1: and then I put my headphones.
Speaker 2: In the same book.
Speaker 1: You read and listen at the same time, and I
Speaker 1: can turn the speed up to like three x and
Speaker 1: then because you're reading and at the same time, like
Speaker 1: you're getting like total comprehension.
Speaker 2: And wait, you you can read at three x speed.
Speaker 1: On auible if you listen and read at the same time. Wow,
Speaker 1: So Audible You're listening at three x and then you're
Speaker 1: reading and like it. If you're just listening, it's too
Speaker 1: fast and you can't really comprehend enough. But if you
Speaker 1: can read and listen together, dude, it's pretty amazing. You
Speaker 1: can take a ten hour book and turn it into
Speaker 1: like a movie. It's got two and a half movie. Now, Wow,
Speaker 1: I've never tried that. I do listen to.
Speaker 2: It was fifty books between listening and reading, and I
Speaker 2: think it's gonna be twenty thirty splitter somewhere in there.
Speaker 2: I did thirty books in twenty twenty twenty one, maybe
Speaker 2: twenty twenty at some point back then. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's felt like I kind of had a lot of
Speaker 2: books on my shelf come January one, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: I'll do something. I think it's gonna be kind of challenging.
Speaker 2: And so here's what I do. And I love throwing
Speaker 2: in the earbuds and you know, working out or I
Speaker 2: have ten acres, so I get the chainsaw and burn
Speaker 2: stuff a lot, and that's a lot of fun for me.
Speaker 2: So you know, throw the earbuds in, listen to a book,
Speaker 2: and go chain saw some stuff.
Speaker 1: Where's ten acres? What state.
Speaker 2: Use, I'm in Wisconsin.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm in California. But we bought a little some
Speaker 1: acres out in Texas and man, it's winter. With the freezers,
Speaker 1: we had all these trees that came down. Oh man,
Speaker 1: there was so much work.
Speaker 2: That's another topic, but it's so much fun. I don't
Speaker 2: know about your life, but I'll tell you about my life.
Speaker 2: My life is I kind of do a lot of
Speaker 2: things where it affects other people, right, and so I
Speaker 2: have a responsibility. And so it's like any decision I
Speaker 2: make is going to get second guests or sometimes have
Speaker 2: questions or I don't have to explain something, and we
Speaker 2: just go outside of your chainsaw and just start chopping
Speaker 2: stuff up and no one gives a damn. It's so much.
Speaker 1: Fun, meaning as opposed to be a quan in front
Speaker 1: of like public scrutiny on everything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, public scrutiny or even like you know, with your business,
Speaker 2: it's like, well you do you know, I run wrestling academies,
Speaker 2: and so you know, you make a decision, it's going
Speaker 2: to affect a bunch of people. And then obviously some
Speaker 2: of the people aren't gonna like the decision you make,
Speaker 2: right and then you don't have to explain, well, here
Speaker 2: is why I made the decision. And you know, I'm
Speaker 2: sorry you don't don't like it, but that's what it's
Speaker 2: going to be. And you know, when you go outside
Speaker 2: of your chainsaw, it's like you used to get to
Speaker 2: go hack some stuff down and burn it and no
Speaker 2: one's going to complain.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I get it. Sometimes it's just like that
Speaker 1: manual kind of work that you can just kind of go,
Speaker 1: kind of get in that zone is somewhat somewhat kind
Speaker 1: of therapeutic. I guess in a sense, what are what
Speaker 1: are a couple of big what? Maybe what's a book
Speaker 1: or two that you would recommend that you've read this year?
Speaker 2: Oh oh, now I can get my list out. Let's see.
Speaker 2: I have read quite a few bitcoin books this year.
Speaker 2: Let's see books right now I'm really struggling with and
Speaker 2: I wrote I bought The Road to Surf Surf on
Speaker 2: by Fa High. That's like a red but it's hard, man,
Speaker 2: it's a hard read. It's not easy. Just that the older,
Speaker 2: older form of writing, I feel like it's like really
Speaker 2: dense and that one.
Speaker 1: You can't do at three X speed for sure. That's
Speaker 1: like you have to reread the paragraphs a couple of times,
Speaker 1: yea to even catch on what's going on Chapter six specifically,
Speaker 1: I've gone through that one a couple of times because
Speaker 1: he talks about laws and how you need that you
Speaker 1: need to have laws that are easy for everyone to
Speaker 1: understand and they're written and just reading their stone so
Speaker 1: then everybody can plan their life based off of those
Speaker 1: laws as opposed to being arbitrarily applied. It was amazing.
Speaker 1: If you're just tuning in, you're listening to the Mark
Speaker 1: Mash Show. I'm sitting down with Ben ask MMA champion
Speaker 1: Olympian and bitcointerer. We got a lot to cover, like
Speaker 1: a very quick breakdough. Just for a second, we'll be
Speaker 1: right back in a minute. Don't go away, We'll be
Speaker 1: right back, all right, Welcome back. If you just tune in,
Speaker 1: you're listening to the Mark Moss Show, sitting down with
Speaker 1: Ben Askern, MMA champion Olympian and a bitcointerer and an
Speaker 1: avid reader fifty books. Ben, you're about to tell me
Speaker 1: some other books that you read this year that you
Speaker 1: thought were really good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what, if everyone I love discussing this,
Speaker 2: I actually suggest I do a podcast with someone about
Speaker 2: this and we never got around to it. But the
Speaker 2: Sovereign Individual, Oh, it's the best, and you know what
Speaker 2: he they It is so fascinating because it feels as
Speaker 2: though it will so number one pretty He absolutely predicted
Speaker 2: bitcoin ahead of time, like twelve years ahead of time,
Speaker 2: but he predicts so many other things so far ahead
Speaker 2: of time, and it's like, oh my god, this book
Speaker 2: is so good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I agree. I've read it a couple of times.
Speaker 1: I have, like, I have pages of notes that I
Speaker 1: took on that book. And that's another book that you
Speaker 1: can't get through at three X speed. So some of
Speaker 1: these books that are like really information dense, you kind
Speaker 1: of do have to slow down, you know, obviously for sure. Cool.
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you about something else, something that
Speaker 1: I'm personally wait.
Speaker 2: Were talking about a couple more books first, Oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: you got me all excited.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you got the list. Let's do it. Let's
Speaker 1: do it at the Sovereign Individual though, real quick. Maybe
Speaker 1: we'll do another show follow up. We could talk about it,
Speaker 1: because I got the whole outline. It'd be fun, it'd
Speaker 1: be it'd be very good for the audience because I
Speaker 1: think it's a must read book. But yeah, go ahead hit.
Speaker 2: Up a couple of bit well, but this HiT's right
Speaker 2: in your bitcoin stuff, right is uh Alex Gladstein. I
Speaker 2: read one of his books and he would I listened
Speaker 2: to him speak at the Bigcoin Convention, but uh, hidden
Speaker 2: Repression and check your financial privilege. Those were very awakening
Speaker 2: for me. Like, you know, I understood, like the government's
Speaker 2: bad and they probably done some shady stuff. But then
Speaker 2: you read that and you're like, oh my god, it
Speaker 2: was it was even worse than what I thought it was. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so bad, so bad. So those two were good. And
Speaker 2: then you know what other one that I just I
Speaker 2: think it just came out, but it's called the Fourth
Speaker 2: Turning is here, which is like a follow up to
Speaker 2: the Fourth Turning which was written And I said, and
Speaker 2: I know that part resonates with a lot of bitcointers
Speaker 2: because they you know, I just saw Lynn Olden posting
Speaker 2: hashtag Fourth Turning today.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have I have Neil Howe, the author of
Speaker 1: the book, coming on tomorrow.
Speaker 2: He's awesome, You're lucky.
Speaker 1: And I've read the first one and I'm like halfway
Speaker 1: through the second one. But too, it's like it's a
Speaker 1: twenty hour book. It's a twenty hour right, so it's like,
Speaker 1: oh man, I'm not quite through it. I haven't gotten
Speaker 1: to the part where he kind of forecasts what's coming.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So if if I had to complain about the
Speaker 2: second book was I felt as though the first chunk
Speaker 2: was kind of like a rehash of a lot of
Speaker 2: things he went over the first book, which I guess
Speaker 2: if you know, if someone has not read the first book,
Speaker 2: they're gonna want or need that information. And because it's
Speaker 2: necessary to understand how he goes through his process. And
Speaker 2: the other one is that's just it's so hard to
Speaker 2: remember you know, every single age group and then what
Speaker 2: age they're at in their lives and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: That's another tough one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, so that's a good one. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Those are great books, absolutely, and know what you got?
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, let's see.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I'm sure you read through so many
Speaker 1: because there for day and I'm sure to talk about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we could sit there. Those are some fun ones. Yeah,
Speaker 2: sovereign individual I have principles of economics another one that
Speaker 2: you know, and I would say the Bitcoin standard is
Speaker 2: one of my favorites. And you know, I went to
Speaker 2: college for geography because I thought I was gonna be
Speaker 2: a college wrestling coach, and then I ended up fighting
Speaker 2: and I got distracted from college dressing, coaching and pinning
Speaker 2: out back by I never say business, and so I've
Speaker 2: kind of like been trying to, like, I don't say,
Speaker 2: learn after the fact, and you know, just reading bigcoinners
Speaker 2: version of what business is and how how the economy
Speaker 2: works versus reading and Austria. You know a lot of
Speaker 2: bitcoin economics is Austrian economics. I think.
Speaker 1: So.
Speaker 2: Yeah, It's it's been kind of like fascinating seeing their
Speaker 2: viewpoint on things versus normal people's viewpoint on things.
Speaker 1: There was this book I read this year called The
Speaker 1: Revolt of the publicis of Authority in the New Millennium. Man.
Speaker 1: I highly recommend that one. I had the author on.
Speaker 1: That was good. Revolt of the Public. That might have
Speaker 1: been the most intriguing book I read this year. Just
Speaker 1: The Infinite Game Simon Sinek, That one's pretty cool. The
Speaker 1: Fourth Turning I'm working on that one right now.
Speaker 2: So uh, your your your co host or said, The
Speaker 2: Block Size War and the in the in the chat here,
Speaker 2: that was a fun book. Someone's posted about today. But
Speaker 2: that was a fun one because I wasn't around for that,
Speaker 2: right I came in. I came into bitcoin too late.
Speaker 2: Uh so I came in right after that. And now
Speaker 2: that was really fun to read about the history of
Speaker 2: uh you know, the block size.
Speaker 1: Wars, if you like, if you like the Fourth Turning
Speaker 1: and the sovereign individual? Have you read the End of
Speaker 1: the World is just the beginning Peter's I have not.
Speaker 2: I put oh no, but that guy, wasn't that the
Speaker 2: knuckload that was on Rogan saying bitcoin?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: He is.
Speaker 1: I had him on my show and he and he
Speaker 1: said the same thing. He's a knucklehead about bitcoin, but
Speaker 1: doesn't change the fact a lot of his research I
Speaker 1: think is really good and compelling.
Speaker 2: So why don't you think something like that? Why do
Speaker 2: you think he misses on bitcoin so much? Because and
Speaker 2: this is another like Elon Musk is probably one of
Speaker 2: the smartest individuals of planet Earth, but it feels like
Speaker 2: he's missing on bitcoin.
Speaker 1: And I think it's an easy answer. I think it's
Speaker 1: actually easy answer. The reason why is what happens is
Speaker 1: the Bible says it's easier for the camell to go through.
Speaker 1: I have a needle than a rich man to heaven.
Speaker 1: And that's because the rich man is so proud, right,
Speaker 1: they know everything. You have to humble yourself. And so
Speaker 1: these smart people, the Elon Musk and the Peter's Ions,
Speaker 1: they know everything. So I look at it for five minutes. Ah,
Speaker 1: I get it, I get it, I get it whatever. Right,
Speaker 1: They had never taken the time to like actually learn
Speaker 1: about it, because as you know, now you've been in
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, like you're still learning things about it, right,
Speaker 1: You're still figuring it out. And so they looked at
Speaker 1: it for five minutes they think they understand it, and
Speaker 1: then they're so smart and proud they just stop. And
Speaker 1: so like Elon Musk, I mean, the guy is like
Speaker 1: insanely smart. He's like a rocket scientist, like literally, but
Speaker 1: like he didn't have time to read five books on
Speaker 1: bitcoin like you. He probably hasn't read Ron Paul whatever. Right,
Speaker 1: Peter's Ion. He's sort of like a CIA mouthpiece as well.
Speaker 1: If you've listened to his stuff. He's like the most
Speaker 1: arrogant guy in the world, So rogon, right, And so
Speaker 1: I think that's prevent him, right, Sure, that's my opinion.
Speaker 1: But I don't think, I know, like safety and was like,
Speaker 1: I'll never read anything anything of his ever again. But
Speaker 1: I would say the book the data, it's so full
Speaker 1: of data that like, if you like those two books,
Speaker 1: i'd recommend it interesting.
Speaker 2: Okay, oh yeah, I'll have to check it out. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I actually asked a bitcoin Miami. They did the you know,
Speaker 2: they did like the whale zone or whatever. It was
Speaker 2: like the backstage area, and they were they had some
Speaker 2: like small like fireside chats and when Bill Miller there
Speaker 2: was two Bill Miller's, when the Bill Millers were up
Speaker 2: on stage. The question I asked was, and I feel
Speaker 2: this to be the case, but anyone who the more
Speaker 2: classically trained someone is like someone who was a Harvard
Speaker 2: NBA for example, that I've talked to, the more classically
Speaker 2: trained they are, the more they want to reject bitcoin
Speaker 2: as a possibility. Kind I guess it would kind of
Speaker 2: speak to you know what you just said or that
Speaker 2: comment is like, you know, they feel like they know
Speaker 2: it all, they feel like they understand everything, and so
Speaker 2: this is something new and they're like, no, doesn't work
Speaker 2: in my paradigm.
Speaker 1: When I had when I had Peter's ion on I
Speaker 1: kind of like led him into this thing where he's
Speaker 1: like explaining how the world's breaking apart and no one's
Speaker 1: gonna trust anybody, and we're gonna have all these different
Speaker 1: factions and global trade is going to suffer and all
Speaker 1: these things and and and I said, so it sort
Speaker 1: of sounds like what you're saying is we need a
Speaker 1: decentralized ledger that nobody could control. Aha, And he goes, yeah,
Speaker 1: but nobody wants that. I'm like, you just went through
Speaker 1: this whole story of how no one's gonna trust each other,
Speaker 1: so like why wouldn't they? Like so the mind is
Speaker 1: like mine makes no sense in that In that regard,
Speaker 1: what he said on Joe Rogan was like an outright
Speaker 1: like it was either a lie or he's just completely
Speaker 1: so ignorant. It was, it was. It was horrible. But
Speaker 1: I don't want to spend a whole much time talking
Speaker 1: about that is it is a good book, even if
Speaker 1: I don't agree with everything he says. Okay, I did,
Speaker 1: because I want to ask you about something else, something
Speaker 1: else that I'm personally concerned with. You had your Twitter
Speaker 1: account hacked and you got a past and I've been
Speaker 1: locked out of my account for a month.
Speaker 2: What a month?
Speaker 1: And I'm like freaking out over here. I'm like a
Speaker 1: ky seed blue check like and like I can't get
Speaker 1: back in, So what happened with your Twitter hack? And
Speaker 1: how the heck, dude, h how I feel I can
Speaker 1: get back in?
Speaker 2: Okay? I feel like an idiot. I felt like an
Speaker 2: idiot the fact, so I got I got one of
Speaker 2: those messages that said, uh, you know, do you want
Speaker 2: to change your password or whatever? Right? You know you
Speaker 2: don't talk about U like someone tried logging on, Like
Speaker 2: oh damn, I'm like, okay, I'll change my password, right.
Speaker 2: And then I had some people like I have the
Speaker 2: two factor on and I had like some like attempts
Speaker 2: on two factor and I'm like what the hell? And
Speaker 2: then one morning I got hacked. So I'm like, hey,
Speaker 2: like I hacked cause I had like the AWA account
Speaker 2: and I found this person and they were able to
Speaker 2: get me back in right, and I'm like, damn it,
Speaker 2: Like was that person that I paid him like one
Speaker 2: hundred twenty bucks or something right, like did they just
Speaker 2: hack me? And then I pat him one hundred twenty
Speaker 2: bucks and they gave it back to me. And then
Speaker 2: like four days later the same thing happens, like the
Speaker 2: same process, right, I didn't get hacked, but the same
Speaker 2: process happens. And I finally clicked to me. One of
Speaker 2: the wrestlers that I coached, his dad is like into
Speaker 2: cybersecurity and everything, and I called him and said, dude,
Speaker 2: why why people? Why are people hacking me? What's going
Speaker 2: on here? And he kind of like walked me through
Speaker 2: some things.
Speaker 1: Hey, before you, before you, before you tell the answer
Speaker 1: of how you got hacked, I'm going to cut you off.
Speaker 1: If you're just listening and you're listening to the Mark
Speaker 1: mass Show, I'm sitting down with Ben Askrin. He's an MMA,
Speaker 1: an Olympic athlete, and he's a bitcointer, and we're going
Speaker 1: to talk about how his Twitter account got hacked. Don't
Speaker 1: want to miss it. Way back right back with more
Speaker 1: in a minute. Don't go away, all right, welcome back.
Speaker 1: If you just tune in you're listening to the Mark
Speaker 1: Moss Show. I'm talking with Ben Askron. He's an MMA athlete,
Speaker 1: olympian and a bitcointer, and he was just about to
Speaker 1: tell us what a cybersecurity but he told him how
Speaker 1: he got hacked on Twitter. So what was that story?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So this guy says, well, those are phishing emails,
Speaker 2: right the email, click on the email when it came, yes,
Speaker 2: and reset my password. And he said, well, if they
Speaker 2: do that, somehow they can skip the two factor authentication,
Speaker 2: you know. So he's like, but then I went back
Speaker 2: with an email. I was like, oh my god, it
Speaker 2: looks like it looks exactly like the actual Twitter email
Speaker 2: looks like you know when you know, I said, someone
Speaker 2: tried logging on from I was Copenhagen or some some crap, right, yeah,
Speaker 2: so I fell for it, but I got it back
Speaker 2: for one hundred twenty dollars And all they did was
Speaker 2: make a few spam posts and then I deleted it.
Speaker 2: I think I hacked by some Russians maybe five years ago,
Speaker 2: and they were making a bunch of an outrageous posts
Speaker 2: and I'd be like, that is not me. FYI. So yeah,
Speaker 2: but it sucks.
Speaker 1: But like, so you think so you think they got
Speaker 1: in because you got the email you clicked on it, yes,
Speaker 1: and then they probably gained it. And then I saw
Speaker 1: you make a post saying I got my account back.
Speaker 1: I paid this guy. Yeah, was that your post or
Speaker 1: was that like a deep.
Speaker 2: That was my post? That was my post yeah, and
Speaker 2: then so then I was like, well, wait did that
Speaker 2: guy hack me? That guy hacked me and then charge
Speaker 2: on hundred twenty bucks? Do you take help back? And
Speaker 2: then uh, I said a message like come on, bro
Speaker 2: jue mess with me. I won't tell nobody. And he's
Speaker 2: like no, He's like, I'm only a good guy only
Speaker 2: I only help people, blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: How does he get it back?
Speaker 2: Though? I don't know, didn't ask questions. I got it
Speaker 2: back everything to find.
Speaker 1: Out when you got locked out? Did they turn the
Speaker 1: two factor authentication on? Like? How could you not get
Speaker 1: back in?
Speaker 2: You couldn't really no, I think it takes like it
Speaker 2: when you do something like that, it's like there's a
Speaker 2: forty eight hour per where you can't change the two FA.
Speaker 2: So for you know, if I was able to get
Speaker 2: it back, then they had they have to wait to
Speaker 2: change the two FA.
Speaker 1: Okay because somebody. What happened to me was it was
Speaker 1: like a Saturday, a month over a month ago. Now
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, my inbox just started getting filled
Speaker 1: with emails. Oh my god, ten twenty fifty hundred thousands
Speaker 1: of emails start coming in. I'm like, what is this
Speaker 1: and I'm like, someone to got my email and sign
Speaker 1: me up on like thousands of newsletters and websites, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, they must be trying to hide something,
Speaker 1: obscure something. I googled it and it looked like there
Speaker 1: was like this an attack. I thought maybe they got
Speaker 1: my credit cards. They're trying to like hide, you know,
Speaker 1: credit card emails coming or something like that. And then
Speaker 1: later that day I tried to go into my Twitter
Speaker 1: and my account was changed. Oh so I was able
Speaker 1: to reset my password, it still came to my email.
Speaker 1: I didn't click on. I never got anything and clicked
Speaker 1: Later when I cleaned my inbox, I found the password
Speaker 1: reset emails. But I was able to reset my password.
Speaker 1: But when they got in, they put on TWOFA. So
Speaker 1: I have my password, I have my email, but now
Speaker 1: TWFA is on my account and I don't know how
Speaker 1: to get a reset.
Speaker 2: Dang, Well, I can't give you this guy's name. I
Speaker 2: can't promise you didn't hack me, and they give it
Speaker 2: back to me. He might have, but I got my
Speaker 2: Twitter back and it didn't cost that much money, So
Speaker 2: I guess I'm good. I know, so annoying, Yeah, but
Speaker 2: you know the big, big tech like that. Because I'll
Speaker 2: tell you one for me that I still have been
Speaker 2: able to be solved. My Instagram and my Facebook got
Speaker 2: disconnected somehow my personal fan pages, you know. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: because they have the thing where you can post one
Speaker 2: place and they'll go to both. I paid three different
Speaker 2: people to try to reconnect him. They like professionals, they
Speaker 2: couldn't do it. So it's like sometimes these big tech platforms,
Speaker 2: it's almost like they just get too big and they
Speaker 2: can't actually like help people. It's so weird. And especially
Speaker 2: like you said, you know, uh KYC blue Check, you'd
Speaker 2: think if anyone that they would help, it would probably
Speaker 2: be you. But they're just incompetent too big. I don't
Speaker 2: know what the right term is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but now I'm pissed because I'm paying monthly and
Speaker 1: I haven't used my service for a month and I
Speaker 1: can't log into account and cancel it. And I know
Speaker 1: a bunch of bitcoiners got hacked as well. Pete Rizzo,
Speaker 1: did Preston pitched? Did I mean strike?
Speaker 2: Is he still hacked?
Speaker 1: No? He got he got his account backed. I saw
Speaker 1: just a metallic beuter and just had his Twitter account hacked. Really,
Speaker 1: so some people think that it's like maybe insiders at
Speaker 1: Twitter doing it something, maybe going after prominent people. I
Speaker 1: don't know, Yeah, that'd be weird. Yeah, whatever it is,
Speaker 1: it sucks. I covered a story earlier. We were talking
Speaker 1: we were talking earlier about the presidential race, and we
Speaker 1: obviously talked about RFKM vivic. But I did a story earlier.
Speaker 1: The Pentagon did a study and they showed that we
Speaker 1: have a massive national security risk because of people with
Speaker 1: dementia in office having security clearances.
Speaker 2: That stop, that's not real.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, it's real for sure. No.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So they said, like Mitch McConnell, who had like his
Speaker 1: second I'm sure you saw that. Yeah, so he holds
Speaker 1: the highest level of security of anyone in Congress, and
Speaker 1: he's part of what's called the Group of Eight, which
Speaker 1: have the most eightfluential, most you know, influential, highest ranking people.
Speaker 1: And so they put up those reports saying that, saying that,
Speaker 1: you know, it's just a security risk. Like Diane Feinstein,
Speaker 1: I she didn't even know where she's at, Like, who
Speaker 1: knows what secret she's like rambling, Like, what's your thoughts
Speaker 1: on these occagenarians running our country?
Speaker 2: Yeah? No, I definitely think well, you know, it's even
Speaker 2: I don't know Saturday, I tweeted this morning. Sometimes finding
Speaker 2: you never know what tweets are going to catch on
Speaker 2: which ones don't. These ones did not. But it's like,
Speaker 2: these people claim to be in public service, but they're
Speaker 2: just getting wealthy off peddling powers. What they're doing, right,
Speaker 2: They look at Nancy policies, what Nancy Pelosi's wealth or
Speaker 2: Elizabeth Warren's wealth, and they're making two thousand dollars a year,
Speaker 2: but they're worth many, many, many millions. You know, it's
Speaker 2: so ridiculous, hundreds of millions. Yes, and yeah, I mean
Speaker 2: Americans don't have any faith in Congress. And the fact
Speaker 2: that I mean this is probably the most highlighted fact,
Speaker 2: is that these people are literally not competent. Like you
Speaker 2: wouldn't trust them to go to the store and get
Speaker 2: you a bunch of items, Like you wouldn't trust them
Speaker 2: to you wouldn't trust Mitch mccallaugh to do anything like
Speaker 2: Mitch mccallall hey, uh, watch my kids. You ain't gonna
Speaker 2: trust him. He might just fall asleep or forget what
Speaker 2: he's doing, or you don't know, Like they can't do
Speaker 2: the most basic of tasks, and yet we want them
Speaker 2: to govern the world or the United States. It's ridiculous.
Speaker 1: What I don't understand when I talked about earlier is
Speaker 1: like I don't care what side of the isl I
Speaker 1: mean I do, like in regard to this conversation, Like
Speaker 1: I don't really care. I just don't understand how anybody
Speaker 1: with a rational brain could be okay with Mitch McConnell
Speaker 1: or Biden or Feinstein. Like, how does anybody vote for that?
Speaker 1: Or do they? I mean, are they just like they
Speaker 1: don't care, They'd rather just put a name in a seat.
Speaker 2: It's gotta be they just kind of like feel obligated
Speaker 2: to check the box. And you know, in certain certain
Speaker 2: municipalities or areas, it's like so strong Democrats or so
Speaker 2: strong Republican that there's gonna choose whoever is there. And
Speaker 2: then obviously these people probably have powerful people behind them
Speaker 2: because they say, hey, I want this thing to happen,
Speaker 2: and here's how you're gonna make it happen, and then
Speaker 2: boom right, something to that effect. But yes, it's gross.
Speaker 2: They should have to prove their competence to occupy the offices.
Speaker 2: I don't want to say an age limit because there
Speaker 2: are some super old people who taking really good care
Speaker 2: of themselves and who are really sharp. So age limit's
Speaker 2: not fair, but some type a competency test would be great.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean Trump appears would be very sharp. I
Speaker 1: saw a video of the other day, like with the
Speaker 1: golf ball, like we threw up the golf balls club
Speaker 1: and I caught it like that was pretty good. But
Speaker 1: I saw and when I was covering the story earlier,
Speaker 1: it's like the average age of a fortune five hundred
Speaker 1: CEO is fifty seven. Yeah, I saw that, Like, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: they're not they're not. They're not hiring these old people,
Speaker 1: and so it's like at some point you have to
Speaker 1: kind of retire. I just think, like, is it is
Speaker 1: it symbolic of where our country is? Like to see
Speaker 1: a president like Biden in office? Is it almost like
Speaker 1: I mean, if they could put anybody they want there,
Speaker 1: why him? And is it like almost like symbolic like
Speaker 1: of like the nation just aging and breaking down?
Speaker 2: So to speak? Yeah? I uh yeah, I think there
Speaker 2: could definitely be the case. Hey, you want to laugh?
Speaker 2: I started to take his totally off topic. You want
Speaker 2: to laugh, go watch Shane Gillis he just put a
Speaker 2: comedy special. But one of the funniest parts for me
Speaker 2: is and I'll just I'll say it a little bit,
Speaker 2: but he's like, yeah, we got a President Biden. You
Speaker 2: know when he shuts off, he turns into a room.
Speaker 2: Ba he starts why he starts wandering on the stage.
Speaker 2: It's like, it's like the funniest clip. You got to
Speaker 2: go check it out.
Speaker 1: Uh I have is that. I think I saw someone
Speaker 1: talking about that. It's like on Netflix they're gonna, yeah,
Speaker 1: they take it down or something like that. It's so
Speaker 1: true a room but I like that. Yeah. I remember
Speaker 1: like he holds his hands out like this, and then
Speaker 1: someone made like the memes of him like taking off
Speaker 1: with like a jet pack or like oh yeah, riding
Speaker 1: like a mule or something like that. The jokes sort
Speaker 1: of right themselves, so funny. Yeah, well hey that's uh
Speaker 1: that kind of wraps it up for us.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 1: So good to sit down and talk with you on
Speaker 1: this stuff. Uh, maybe we'll have another show. We'll talk
Speaker 1: about the sovereign individual. I think that'd be great. Let
Speaker 1: let's let know people where they can follow. You got
Speaker 1: a podcast, right.
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, well a podcast about wrestling. Uh so if
Speaker 2: you're in wrestling. It's sounds full of wrestling, but I'm
Speaker 2: sure if you're in wrestling, you probably know about it already.
Speaker 2: I do some segments with Dan Cormier on his YouTube channel.
Speaker 2: I tweet a bunch. I'm on Instagram. I don't really
Speaker 2: like Instagram that much. I post, you know, once in
Speaker 2: a while on there, and uh, I'll be you know what. Actually,
Speaker 2: I just committed to go to a Pacific Bitcoin which
Speaker 2: is like a month uh in California. That should be fun.
Speaker 2: Looking forward to it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll definitely see you there. I'm going to speak
Speaker 1: at bitcoin at pack Pack Bitcoin, and then I'm going
Speaker 1: out to the Bitcoin Amsterdam. I'm excited about that would
Speaker 1: be fun if you just tune in. You listening to
Speaker 1: the Mark More Show sitting down with Ben Askron, Olympian
Speaker 1: MMA champion and a avid reader and a bitcoiner. Uh
Speaker 1: and freshly got his Twitter account back, so go follow
Speaker 1: up on Twitter. That's what got Thanks so much for listening.
Speaker 1: Until next time