Speaker 1: What kind of a show you guys.
Speaker 2: Putting on here today?
Speaker 1: You're not interested in Armed now? No, look, we're going
Speaker 1: to do this thing. We're going to have a conversation.
Speaker 2: Hey, film spotters, we have another archive drop in your
Speaker 2: feed with our conversation, A long conversation, I think, a
Speaker 2: fun conversation about Spike Lee and Denzel Washington's fifth collaboration
Speaker 2: as director and actor, Higas to lois coming this Friday.
Speaker 2: We wanted to put our top five Denzel Washington performances
Speaker 2: back in your feed. This is from twenty seventeen. We
Speaker 2: had w Camal Bell on the show. Among the many
Speaker 2: things that he does, Josh, he had a CNN show
Speaker 2: Emmy nominated, The United Shades of America. He directed the
Speaker 2: Peabody Award winning documentary We Need to Talk About Cosby,
Speaker 2: And he had a podcast that ran a regularly between
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen and twenty nineteen that was appropriately for our
Speaker 2: purposes called Denzel Washington is the greatest actor of all
Speaker 2: time period.
Speaker 3: Great show, great guest, and looking back at my list, Adham,
Speaker 3: I'll just say my number one pick my own eyebrow raised,
Speaker 3: So I'll have to I'll have to give that a
Speaker 3: fresh listen and see if I convince myself. Sometimes sometimes
Speaker 3: that happens here on the show. So hopefully listeners will
Speaker 3: enjoy a fresh here or maybe listening to again our
Speaker 3: top five Denzel Washington performances. That's from May twenty seventeen.
Speaker 2: And if you want access regular access whenever you want,
Speaker 2: you want to dip into the archive and here shows
Speaker 2: like this. That is a benefit of being a Film
Speaker 2: Spotting Family member and you can learn more at Filmspottingfamily
Speaker 2: dot com. Enjoy mister w Come Out Bell. Many of
Speaker 2: you may know Bell for his politically charged stand up.
Speaker 2: His new comedy album with semi Prominent Negro was just
Speaker 2: released this week. He's also the host of CNN's United
Speaker 2: Shades of America, which just got picked up for a
Speaker 2: second season, not to mention his live monthly radio show
Speaker 2: and the politically reactive podcast that he co hosts. But
Speaker 2: the reason he's with us today is because he thinks
Speaker 2: Denzel Washington is the greatest actor of all time period.
Speaker 2: And we know this because he co hosts another podcast
Speaker 2: called Denzel Washington is the Greatest Actor of All time period.
Speaker 2: Come out, You are a very busy man. Thank you
Speaker 2: so much. For taking time for us today.
Speaker 1: Thank you. When you say it like that, I started
Speaker 1: to get sleepy.
Speaker 4: I bet it's a lot. How do you pull all
Speaker 4: that off?
Speaker 1: I mean I just sort of, you know.
Speaker 5: I think it's a fond option of after I had
Speaker 5: I had another TV show Totally Biased, where I was
Speaker 5: like there for like twelve and fifteen hours a day,
Speaker 5: and then when that was over, I was like, I
Speaker 5: don't want to ever have to commit that much time
Speaker 5: to one project ever again.
Speaker 1: I would like to do lots of things that take
Speaker 1: up a little bit of time.
Speaker 3: Well, that's good. Here, I got another one for you. Okay,
Speaker 3: can you add a fourth podcast? I want you to
Speaker 3: do something on the Forest Gump sequel, the one that
Speaker 3: you speculated about in one of your early episodes when
Speaker 3: that finally comes out. I just wanted to do episodes
Speaker 3: catalog in that movie. Can you do that for me?
Speaker 5: I think I'll have to get rid of another podcast
Speaker 5: where I add another podcast. I'm always like going, I
Speaker 5: could do a podcast about this, and I look at
Speaker 5: my wife.
Speaker 1: You can't exactly. I'm always coming with more ideas.
Speaker 5: I mean, you know, so it's a but yeah, certainly
Speaker 5: I think there's more podcasts in my future. I just
Speaker 5: think I'm gonna have to suspend some while I would
Speaker 5: I share.
Speaker 4: Sure, that's a that's a sound move.
Speaker 2: So when we announced that we were going to do
Speaker 2: this look back at Denzel Washington's career tied in with
Speaker 2: a magnificent seven review, we heard from a lot of
Speaker 2: people on social media saying, you got to get come
Speaker 2: out bell On, you got to get someone from that
Speaker 2: show to talk about Denzel Washington. And the good part
Speaker 2: was we were way ahead of those den Zel It's
Speaker 2: we had already reached out to you. So we are
Speaker 2: very excited to have you on and that that term
Speaker 2: den Zelot. All of our best ideas come from our listeners.
Speaker 2: Did you coin that expression or is that a pre
Speaker 2: existing thing that you latched onto?
Speaker 6: No, it wasn't.
Speaker 5: It didn't exist. We sort of, I mean I came
Speaker 5: up with the title. I'll take credit for that. I'm
Speaker 5: a big fan of like crazy long titles, like my
Speaker 5: new We just announced that I have a book coming
Speaker 5: out that also is a crazy long title. I just think,
Speaker 5: as everybody else, every other podcast and title has gotten shorter.
Speaker 5: For example, like Cereal is number one podcast, but you
Speaker 5: have no idea. What that's about when you just say
Speaker 5: I'm listening to Cereal, so I just feel like I
Speaker 5: just want a podcast. It's very clear what it is,
Speaker 5: so that you know what you're getting into. But then
Speaker 5: it was actually me and Kevin Avery. We both we
Speaker 5: actually shared it's going to be so much more boring.
Speaker 5: We shared the same comedy manager for a while and
Speaker 5: she was the one who's like, you should call your
Speaker 5: people Denzel Itz, and we were like, thank you, comedy manager.
Speaker 5: This is the very rare time our comedy manager actually
Speaker 5: has a good idea. So no offense every comedy manager,
Speaker 5: but she, Carrie Smith, she was like that, and so
Speaker 5: that's where it came from. So but you know, since then,
Speaker 5: the Denzels have come up with lots of things that
Speaker 5: have been incorporated into the podcast.
Speaker 3: So the basic idea for the show when you set
Speaker 3: out at the very beginning, you know, just go through
Speaker 3: Denzel's films, talk about all these performances. Has that vision
Speaker 3: been pretty much a compl as you're approaching i think
Speaker 3: almost one hundred shows now or has it changed a
Speaker 3: little bit along the way, And basically, what does it feel.
Speaker 1: Like to do this now?
Speaker 3: This many episodes in I.
Speaker 1: Mean, I think it really started to shift really early on.
Speaker 5: The idea is that we were review every Denzel Washington
Speaker 5: movie and therefore approved that he was a greatest actor
Speaker 5: of all time period.
Speaker 1: But very early on.
Speaker 5: We started people reaching out to us because Denzel is
Speaker 5: an icon and also a very unique icon.
Speaker 1: Tom Hanks is also an icon, but.
Speaker 5: There's other white guys, like, you know, there's like, you know,
Speaker 5: if Tom Hanks walks into a room and the other
Speaker 5: side of the room, like George Clooney walks in the room,
Speaker 5: we got two guys, two icons in the room. But
Speaker 5: Denzel's sort of singular in that in that there's not
Speaker 5: another actor of his era that holds a similar space.
Speaker 5: I mean, Samuel Jackson's great, Morgan Freeman is great, but
Speaker 5: he's kind of the king, you know. Yeah, And so
Speaker 5: I think that, like very early on, we people started
Speaker 5: coming into that. But then it also very quickly turned
Speaker 5: into a thing that was just generally about diversity in Hollywood.
Speaker 5: You know, at the time we started doing the podcast,
Speaker 5: like Oscar so White kicked up again, right, we also
Speaker 5: are talking about like they're also Project green Light. The
Speaker 5: season of Project green Light had all that weirdness around
Speaker 5: diversity and Effie Brown going when Matt Damian was like,
Speaker 5: diversity is on camera, not behind the camera. And I
Speaker 5: was a big fan of that show, and Kevin's a
Speaker 5: big fan of Matt Damon, So we had to have
Speaker 5: a lot of debates about that, and I mean, I
Speaker 5: think one of the greatest things that the show has
Speaker 5: done is that, you know, we talked to Ryan Coogler.
Speaker 5: Now he's obviously he's the director of a Rocky Now
Speaker 5: we talked about his favorite denselboes, but it was a
Speaker 5: really in depth discussion about creed like and luckily, our
Speaker 5: fans have grown with that and there and they like that.
Speaker 5: So we find that we don't actually have to do
Speaker 5: an episode that's even fifty percent Denzel for our fans
Speaker 5: to keep up with it, because Denzel just sort of
Speaker 5: turns through a discussion about diversity in general.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, that's really interesting how it's evolved to that. So
Speaker 2: we are going to get to your top five Denzel
Speaker 2: Washington performances, which I imagine was incredibly difficult considering how
Speaker 2: big of a fan you are and considering how many
Speaker 2: great performances he has given a little bit of set
Speaker 2: up here and if I got any of these numbers wrong.
Speaker 2: I'm sure someone out there will correct me. I looked
Speaker 2: at his IMDb page, counted forty four feature film credits.
Speaker 2: Of those, I've seen twenty six of them, so I
Speaker 2: don't know how good that is or not. I don't
Speaker 2: know if you've seen all of them or not. Come
Speaker 2: out you can tell us, but I've seen twenty six
Speaker 2: of those.
Speaker 4: Forty four.
Speaker 2: He's made five with Tony Scott the director he's worked
Speaker 2: with the most, Spike Lee four times, Antoine Fuqua now
Speaker 2: three times, ed Zwick three times. He of course, has
Speaker 2: won two Oscars. And I got this from the five
Speaker 2: thirty eight dot com article speaking of those think pieces
Speaker 2: come out the four types of Denzel Washington movies. They
Speaker 2: have him ranked twenty ninth all time in terms of
Speaker 2: box office. His films have made over two point two
Speaker 2: billion dollars domestically. So just a little bit of background there.
Speaker 2: Let's actually go ahead and get to your picks. And
Speaker 2: how did you even begin to come up with your list?
Speaker 1: Well, we talked about this in the podcast.
Speaker 5: I actually learned this from people coming on the podcast,
Speaker 5: because some people we make everybody come on and say,
Speaker 5: what are your top five favorite Denzel Washington movies, and
Speaker 5: very quickly people were like, do you mean favorite performances
Speaker 5: or favorite movies? Like there this sort of like split
Speaker 5: between a Denzel Washington movie I enjoy or performance that
Speaker 5: I think is transformative and relevatory. And I never hadn't
Speaker 5: thought of it that way. So only through other people
Speaker 5: coming to the podcast, you like Dave Ziron, who's the
Speaker 5: great political sports reporter, came on with two lists and
Speaker 5: now that's a pretty common thing for people to do that.
Speaker 5: And or Ryan Kugler, we call it cooglering, who would
Speaker 5: have like tied for number five.
Speaker 3: Is four movies I can relate that happens on this show.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, so yeah it's called cooglering.
Speaker 5: Okay, so yeah, so for me, like my favorite movies
Speaker 5: are pretty different than this list.
Speaker 1: Of my favorite performance Okay really.
Speaker 5: Uh yeah, no there's only one, well there's two, I
Speaker 5: guess it's I mean, that's not great, but yeah there's
Speaker 5: three on here that I would have a couple I
Speaker 5: would have put on my list of favorite movies. But
Speaker 5: then later through doing the pod, because I'm like, I'm
Speaker 5: just saying that so I sound smart, It's that actually true?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, just to jump in real quick, I'm curious
Speaker 2: because we may sprinkle in our choices. I know we
Speaker 2: did come up with our top five as well. Josh,
Speaker 2: did you end up in a similar place or are
Speaker 2: you like me and kind of have your five favorite
Speaker 2: Denzel movies that also happen to correspond with your favorite performances.
Speaker 3: I went with performances. But for me, the tough thing
Speaker 3: was we have a poll going on right now between
Speaker 3: best Denzel performance or another poll asking for your favorite.
Speaker 3: So this is a whole other can of worms come
Speaker 3: out that you can get into. And so I got
Speaker 3: turned around in that a little bit, which has been
Speaker 3: really tough.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we are going to get to those results later,
Speaker 2: but I guess I'll give a little bit of a
Speaker 2: spoiler a good example there. I think I don't have
Speaker 2: him in front of me, but Malcolm X, I think
Speaker 2: one for best performance, but Training Day wins for favorite, right,
Speaker 2: And there is a big distinction between those two performers.
Speaker 1: That's exactly what I'm talking about.
Speaker 5: Like people, there's a sense that we talked about this
Speaker 5: in the podcast, there's a sense black people really like
Speaker 5: to not like Training Day because, like you know, he's
Speaker 5: just playing a bad cop, but you cannot deny the
Speaker 5: immense fun it is to watch him in.
Speaker 4: That performance totally.
Speaker 5: You know, you can sort of get on your high
Speaker 5: horse and go, I don't think it's good that you
Speaker 5: want to Oscar for that, And that's also a discussion
Speaker 5: we can have. But I'm somebody who came around to
Speaker 5: that and be like, this is just a good I mean,
Speaker 5: it's like he is so he chews up every bit
Speaker 5: of scenery and it's so fun to see an actor
Speaker 5: like that get the be allowed to sort of just
Speaker 5: run all over the screen. It's like, whereas Malcolm X,
Speaker 5: he literally does the right thing. Yeah, pun and it's
Speaker 5: a great performance. But it's like, if, honestly, I think
Speaker 5: I always think of it this way, if there's two TVs,
Speaker 5: or on one TV, there's two different movies playing Malcolm
Speaker 5: X to Training Day, that's how you figure out your
Speaker 5: favorite the one. You go, well, I gotta go watch this,
Speaker 5: and I I'd watch a little bit of Malcolm X.
Speaker 5: Eventually I can get the Training Day before. He says,
Speaker 5: King talking.
Speaker 4: Exactly.
Speaker 3: Okay, so did either of those make your top five?
Speaker 3: Then both of them?
Speaker 1: Maybe? No? We talked about again. So this is top
Speaker 1: five performances.
Speaker 4: That's right, performances.
Speaker 1: So number five, I'm going to say Hurricane.
Speaker 5: Okay, Hurricane is I used to be one of my
Speaker 5: favorite movies, but if you watch the movie, it's a
Speaker 5: little bit heavy handed. And they also have to cover
Speaker 5: a lot of time, and so it's just that thing
Speaker 5: where movies have to cover a lot of time, they
Speaker 5: sort of like things sort of get attenuated. But that
Speaker 5: movie did bring me to read about Ruben Hurricane Carter
Speaker 5: a lot.
Speaker 1: So.
Speaker 5: But his performance in that movie, the fact that he
Speaker 5: plays a guy from like eighteen to like I don't
Speaker 5: know sixty, and it's not totally unbelievable, and in fact,
Speaker 5: he was forty five years old and ripped in the
Speaker 5: boxing scenes. Yeah, and it has a classic Denza watching line,
Speaker 5: I'm fifty.
Speaker 4: Years old, the quivering lift everything. Yeah, fifty years old.
Speaker 7: I've been blocked up for thirty years.
Speaker 2: It's funny about that movie because in that poll question
Speaker 2: that we're referencing, we gave like the top six answers
Speaker 2: we thought would be the most common and we didn't
Speaker 2: list Hurricane among them, And then we had other where
Speaker 2: people could write in and Hurricane scarcely got mentioned. Do
Speaker 2: you think that there is a valid reason or any
Speaker 2: reason that you can come up with why that movie
Speaker 2: for some reason just hasn't held the same esteem over
Speaker 2: time since it came out.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it has.
Speaker 5: The biopic problem that, like, you know, it's hard to
Speaker 5: sort of like when you really need to cover a
Speaker 5: person's whole life, it's hard to do a great job
Speaker 5: with that, or a thorough job with that, Like you know,
Speaker 5: every biopick should actually be like a season of television
Speaker 5: where it's like, you know, instead of like cramming all it.
Speaker 1: Also, I think it got a lot of heat at
Speaker 1: the time.
Speaker 4: I remember that, yeah, because.
Speaker 5: They played a little fast and loose with some of
Speaker 5: the facts, which I felt like, do we all see
Speaker 5: a beautiful mind? Was that guy like like a positive reprobate,
Speaker 5: like you know exactly, but the movie he's.
Speaker 1: Just a crazy match genius.
Speaker 5: I feel like that was to me like a little
Speaker 5: bit of of institutionalized racism, where like, oh, so this
Speaker 5: black guy gets heat for playing fast and loose and
Speaker 5: then not as fast loose as the facts as other
Speaker 5: biopics do regularly.
Speaker 1: So I think it's sort of.
Speaker 5: That affected it and also I think it's a little
Speaker 5: bit like if you want to watch Hurricane, you might
Speaker 5: as well watch Malcolm X because it's basically a better
Speaker 5: version of that movie.
Speaker 1: You know, it's a black guy.
Speaker 3: Well, he has been in a number biopick, so you know,
Speaker 3: maybe once those start getting ranked in people's minds, Hurricane
Speaker 3: falls to the bottom.
Speaker 4: Yeah, might be.
Speaker 1: I just think Hurricane is not really he's great in it.
Speaker 1: It's not.
Speaker 5: I mean, I said this very it's not a ton
Speaker 5: of fun like I think. So it's not like like
Speaker 5: Malcolm X, even though it's tragic, seeing him be Malcolm
Speaker 5: X is fun. It's just it's amazing and you're like, oh,
Speaker 5: this is one of the greatest things I've ever seen.
Speaker 5: So Hurricane is great, but I think it doesn't It
Speaker 5: maybe doesn't age as well as these other ones. But
Speaker 5: his performance is absolutely top notch.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a clear one there. As you were saying that
Speaker 2: would fit here into your top five. Performance has been
Speaker 2: not your top five Denzel movies. What about your number four?
Speaker 1: My number four, I'm going to say a Soldier story.
Speaker 1: Love it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Soldier story is like the first I think, I mean,
Speaker 5: maybe he did maybe he did the carbon copy movie first,
Speaker 5: but we don't really count that, ye, But yeah, Soldier
Speaker 5: story is really like a great movie because it's a
Speaker 5: murder mystery and Denzel starts out being what you would
Speaker 5: think is like, Oh, this guy's got nothing, and then
Speaker 5: eventually the reveal, it's like, oh, this guy's got a
Speaker 5: lot more than I expected, you know, no spoilers. And
Speaker 5: I think that, like, it's sort of interesting that he
Speaker 5: ended up being such a leading man because it's really
Speaker 5: a that is a really character performance, Like it's not
Speaker 5: dominated by him being like the best looking, handsome guy,
Speaker 5: Like he's sort of a he's sort of a nerd
Speaker 5: for lack of a better word. He's wearing glasses and
Speaker 5: he sort of thought as like not being really worthy
Speaker 5: of anyone's respect in a movie.
Speaker 1: Yeah, where are you from?
Speaker 8: Peter's Hollywood, California by way of Alabama.
Speaker 1: So you see, I enlisted in forty two.
Speaker 7: I thought we'd get a chance to fight.
Speaker 8: So did you know the sergeant?
Speaker 7: Well, no, son, he was already with the company when
Speaker 7: I got a sign and pfc's and sergeants we don't
Speaker 7: mix too well.
Speaker 1: So you played both for him?
Speaker 7: Oh yes, sir, I played shots though, and did you
Speaker 7: like the sergeant, no, sir, you see where it goes
Speaker 7: back to the team. So stone ass felt the stone ass.
Speaker 7: But I'm the only one who called him now, So
Speaker 7: sergeant water soon didn't mean no offense.
Speaker 5: Leading actors don't normally start out that way. They normally
Speaker 5: start out as leading, you know, it's like it's a
Speaker 5: real character role. Later he would have been cast in
Speaker 5: the role that Howard Robbs would have played if they'd
Speaker 5: done that movie.
Speaker 1: Again.
Speaker 4: Well, it's right, he kind of is encourage under fire, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he does the same thing.
Speaker 5: So I think it's really a testament to the fact
Speaker 5: that we've sometimes in the modern era, we forget that
Speaker 5: Denzel if he was less good looking, he would have
Speaker 5: been a great character actor.
Speaker 3: That's absolutely right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's too.
Speaker 5: Good looking, too tall, too good looking to be a
Speaker 5: character actor. And also I think that he actually was
Speaker 5: in a soldier's play, which is why he played the
Speaker 5: same role in the movie. He was in the soldier's play,
Speaker 5: And we had David Allen Greer on the podcast, who
Speaker 5: was also in a soldier's play that also starred Samuel Jackson.
Speaker 5: Was also in that play in New York and told
Speaker 5: great stories of like actors in the late seventies and
Speaker 5: early eighties, those guys all being in a play together.
Speaker 1: Amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that movie is one. It came out in eighty four.
Speaker 2: I was nine or ten years old then, and I
Speaker 2: watched it all the time. For some reason, I think
Speaker 2: my dad exposed me to it and I became obsessed
Speaker 2: with it because it would be on HBO all the time,
Speaker 2: and so I would just see it constantly. And I
Speaker 2: do remember him very vividly from that film. And then
Speaker 2: I remember getting into high school my senior year and
Speaker 2: having to write a paper for an English class on
Speaker 2: the Melville short story Billy Bud that was made into
Speaker 2: a movie in the sixties with Peter Yusunoff, and that's
Speaker 2: basically a soldier story, is basically Billy Bud, but set
Speaker 2: obviously in the army. So yeah, and I love that
Speaker 2: movie in that book too. So that's one that has
Speaker 2: always stuck with me. It's a great choice.
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Speaker 4: What about your number three.
Speaker 1: Number three glory?
Speaker 5: I think, I mean, it's like I sort of struggle,
Speaker 5: like maybe it should be higher. I mean, he basically
Speaker 5: that's when for a lot of black people, he became like, oh,
Speaker 5: so we're gonna put him on a post this stamp
Speaker 5: someday that he's gonna be like, he's gonna get his
Speaker 5: birthday off one day, Black.
Speaker 1: Household, We're gonna be in the back of Haptis Church.
Speaker 5: Fans all for that scene where he plays a very
Speaker 5: complicated character, again a character, it's something a character actor
Speaker 5: would do because he's not the good guy in the movie.
Speaker 5: He's a very complicated character, and characters sort of want
Speaker 5: to hate, but Denzel Washington's charisma sort of makes it
Speaker 5: that you're like, I.
Speaker 1: Want to hate you, but I can't. And it is
Speaker 1: I mean, glory.
Speaker 5: Tire is a thing like you can say this the
Speaker 5: body I almost had a glory to people because of
Speaker 5: that movie.
Speaker 1: The fact that he cried out of one eyeball.
Speaker 5: I mean it became like this, words like not always
Speaker 5: per forwards, but he's doing a magic trick.
Speaker 1: And I mean it's to this day you can say.
Speaker 5: To most black people of you know, probably go Glory here,
Speaker 5: and they know what you're talking about.
Speaker 1: Most many people do know what you're talking about.
Speaker 5: But I think it's just like it was when he
Speaker 5: became bigger than just an actor in that movie.
Speaker 1: And that's a movie. Again.
Speaker 5: You don't get to see a movie where he's acting
Speaker 5: up against Morgan Freeman and Andre Brower and you know,
Speaker 5: big ups for what's his name, Farris Bueller in that vie.
Speaker 5: What a lot of white guys would I would have
Speaker 5: been mad at that they were on screen, but I
Speaker 5: would be like, move out of the way so I
Speaker 5: can get to But he sort of plays a very
Speaker 5: good like I'm not supposed to be here, but I
Speaker 5: have a lot of Respector Matthew Broder watched that movie.
Speaker 5: I'm like, he could have been blown off the screen,
Speaker 5: and he he sort of let his naive tate laugh
Speaker 5: him not to be blown off the screen. Glory, that's
Speaker 5: when he becomes a force to be reckoned with.
Speaker 6: Yeah, button up that column, sucking that gut, tucking them
Speaker 6: big black lips. Lighten your skin, shrink up that nose.
Speaker 1: I don't have to listen to this.
Speaker 6: Where you going?
Speaker 1: Boy? Let me buy, Let you buy, Let you buy.
Speaker 6: Let me tell you something.
Speaker 1: Boy.
Speaker 6: You can march like the white Man, you can talk
Speaker 6: like him, you can, you can learn his songs, you can,
Speaker 6: you can even wear his suits. But you ain't never
Speaker 6: gonna be nothing to him but an ugly ass chimp
Speaker 6: in a blue suit.
Speaker 4: Oh you don't like that, dude, No, m.
Speaker 6: But what we gonna do by it? You want to
Speaker 6: fight me? Boy?
Speaker 1: Huh?
Speaker 6: What you gonna do by it? You want to fight me,
Speaker 6: don't you?
Speaker 3: There's no denying though that Denzel just man handles that movie.
Speaker 3: I mean, he's not really supposed to be the one
Speaker 3: thing you come out of it thinking about. You do,
Speaker 3: and you do?
Speaker 1: You absolutely.
Speaker 3: I think it's the potent combination of swagger and anger
Speaker 3: that he has in that role. And it's you're right,
Speaker 3: that is a much more watching scenes from Glory again,
Speaker 3: it's a much more complicated character than I remember in
Speaker 3: my memory. It's not the sort of postage stamp character
Speaker 3: that we might think of. He's really complicated and troublesome
Speaker 3: and conflicted, and man, making a breakout performance out of
Speaker 3: something like that takes a special sort of skill.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and that was his first Oscar And I think
Speaker 5: also I think about that as we talk about the
Speaker 5: current era of like people don't understand how can Colin
Speaker 5: Kaepernick say such mean things about America and say he
Speaker 5: still likes a merit.
Speaker 1: Well, it's complicated and you.
Speaker 5: Know, like go watch Glory, Denzel ends up basically showing
Speaker 5: pride in his in the flag, you know, like well
Speaker 5: at the same time hating everything the flag has created.
Speaker 5: So I think it's a for a black person. It's
Speaker 5: like that character is very relatable. It's like I totally
Speaker 5: get that, Like, you know, it's not love it or
Speaker 5: leave it, it's like hate it and fix it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's my because we just got done talking
Speaker 2: about last week on the show Born on the fourth
Speaker 2: of July, so this topic seemed very relevant. And then
Speaker 2: I just actually watch Glory for the first time. Somehow
Speaker 2: in the eighties I missed it. I knew that I
Speaker 2: had to cross this one off before I talk to
Speaker 2: you or talk to anybody about Denzel Washington, and yeah,
Speaker 2: his performance is there's no doubt it's a standout and
Speaker 2: that interesting combination you pointed out, Josh of the kind
Speaker 2: of swagger and anger and that sense of righteousness is
Speaker 2: something we get. That really comes through in a lot
Speaker 2: of really good Denzel performances. But then on the flip
Speaker 2: side of that are the ones where it always feels
Speaker 2: like he's repressing that and that's fascinating too, and that
Speaker 2: comes through actually little bit, I think in his character
Speaker 2: in The Magnificent Seven, the more quiet, reserved ones, but
Speaker 2: there's always something underneath the surface you're just waiting to
Speaker 2: spoil over, to bubble over.
Speaker 3: I think that struggle over the idea of righteousness is like,
Speaker 3: if you look at Denzel Washington as an aw tourist actor, like,
Speaker 3: what's the through line in almost every one of his performances.
Speaker 3: It's that and you see it right here in Glory.
Speaker 4: Yeah, great, pick number two.
Speaker 1: Number two.
Speaker 5: We're going with Training Day, which I training Day can
Speaker 5: easily be number one, but I don't want to get
Speaker 5: black people mad at me, so I'm gonna say number two.
Speaker 1: Look at their training Day.
Speaker 5: I mean, that movie only works as well as it
Speaker 5: does because you have a history of Denzel Washington's career
Speaker 5: behind it to sort of know where he came from.
Speaker 5: And so I think if he had done Soldier Story
Speaker 5: and then Training Day, you'd be like, okay, so he
Speaker 5: just kind of a jerk, you know. But because we'd
Speaker 5: had a history of Denzel Washington being like this sort
Speaker 5: of like you know, a post Malcolm X, like he's
Speaker 5: our savior, he's black, you know, he's black Jesus or
Speaker 5: Jesus as some.
Speaker 4: People say, there you go.
Speaker 5: You have this sort of history of him being like
Speaker 5: this sort of like he's he's our avatar for positive
Speaker 5: black male role models. And then in Trading Days, it's
Speaker 5: like a meta performance because we're like, how you're watching
Speaker 5: the character of Alonzo do all these horrible things.
Speaker 1: We're like, Denzel, how could you do this?
Speaker 5: And at the same time, again, his charisma comes through
Speaker 5: as that character given to another actor would just be like,
Speaker 5: you know, it would have been like bad Lieutenant whe
Speaker 5: hyper kn't tell you, just like I just hate you,
Speaker 5: you know, Like, which is fun to watch, but it's
Speaker 5: not a box office hit. I think it's denzel'scharisma that
Speaker 5: turns that into a box office hit. And again shout
Speaker 5: out another white guy, Ethan Hawke. I condescended his performance
Speaker 5: with the Warrantine, and I'm like, you have to be
Speaker 5: a strong actor.
Speaker 1: Do you put up with that with that guy? You
Speaker 1: know for the whole movie? Be truly effective.
Speaker 6: A good narcotics agent must know and love narcotics. In fact,
Speaker 6: a good narcotics agent should have narcotics in his blood.
Speaker 1: What are you gonna smoke?
Speaker 2: Tang?
Speaker 1: Nope, you are hell if I am.
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, you know, no, Wow, you're a moment some
Speaker 8: of your Jesus fraid No, man don't know.
Speaker 5: This is my job. Is your job.
Speaker 1: I can't do that.
Speaker 6: Smoke it, huh, saying a test.
Speaker 3: Just take a hit, take a man, Listen.
Speaker 4: I became a cop to stop people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 10: It's not a review board, and I ain't cocaine.
Speaker 5: Take a hit, noo.
Speaker 2: I think, in general, a lot of us I've noted
Speaker 2: this recently because I think Ethan hawks had an amazing
Speaker 2: run over the past couple of years. In particular, I
Speaker 2: think a lot of us condescended to him for some
Speaker 2: reason as not a heavyweight enough actor. And I think
Speaker 2: he's proven us all wrong here recently, I.
Speaker 3: Like the idea of his performance in Training to being
Speaker 3: a meta performance that in the way you talked about,
Speaker 3: but also because when I watch it, I feel like
Speaker 3: he's screaming at Oscar voters the whole time. I don't
Speaker 3: know what you've been waiting for, but fine, here it
Speaker 3: is brates them into giving him his best actor Oscar,
Speaker 3: which they finally did.
Speaker 5: Yeah, as the great comedian Greg Proops said, and I
Speaker 5: was one of tho jokes I wish I had written.
Speaker 5: And he said this before he won the Oscar. He's like,
Speaker 5: and finally they're going to give this. Guys played Beco
Speaker 5: and Malcolm X and Ruben Hurricane Carter. They're getting give
Speaker 5: an Oscar for playing peptatious McGee.
Speaker 2: Pretty much times, I was just like, that's good, that's
Speaker 2: so great. All right, Well, what's what's better than training Day?
Speaker 4: What's your number one performance?
Speaker 1: Malcolm X is the Michael Jordan of Denzel Washington movies.
Speaker 5: Like, it's just like you can sort of argue against
Speaker 5: it for fun as not being the greatest, but that's
Speaker 5: the greatest performance because it's also the most important performance
Speaker 5: because when he took the movie, Malcolm X. There was
Speaker 5: a lot of talk of like can he pull this off?
Speaker 5: There's a lot like amongst the black comunty, he's too
Speaker 5: dark skinned to do this. He doesn't look enough like Malcolm.
Speaker 5: We should get a lighter skin guy. There's all this
Speaker 5: sort of talk about this book is impossible, Spike Lee's
Speaker 5: doing it. It's Spike Lee going to do a good job.
Speaker 5: Is he able to do an epic movie like this?
Speaker 5: You know, Spike Lee ran out, like ran out of money,
Speaker 5: and then like black celebrities gave him money to finish
Speaker 5: the movie. It all is tied into also the fact
Speaker 5: that it was one of the first movies sort of
Speaker 5: that went viral before it came out through the X
Speaker 5: caps and the X shirts that people were.
Speaker 1: Like, people like Michael Jordan were wearing.
Speaker 5: Like, so the movie marketing became a part of the story,
Speaker 5: Like I had an X shirt and an X cap
Speaker 5: and I didnt even wear baseball caps. But it was
Speaker 5: just like it was a phenomenon, a cultural phenomenon. But
Speaker 5: now movies trying to replicate. Every movie tries to replicate
Speaker 5: sort of like a viral marketing campaign, and Spike Lee
Speaker 5: sort of pioneered that with Malcolm X and that movie.
Speaker 5: Without that movie, I wouldn't have read The Autobious Malcolm X.
Speaker 5: When I did, I was like, oh, I should probably
Speaker 5: read the book before I see the movie.
Speaker 1: So and that book changed my life. And Denzel, there's
Speaker 1: moments in that movie.
Speaker 5: If you've seen a lot of pictures of Malcolm X,
Speaker 5: and you see Denzel that movie, he looks like Malcolm X,
Speaker 5: which doesn't make sense because he doesn't look like Malcolm NEX.
Speaker 4: You're absolutely right, and so that's why.
Speaker 5: And he's always talked about like he's a very spiritual,
Speaker 5: religious man. He keeps one down low a lot of times,
Speaker 5: but it's like he really feels like he was channelling
Speaker 5: Malcolm X. And I'm like, I don't know enough about
Speaker 5: that to know if that's true. But there's times that
Speaker 5: movie go it doesn't make sense he looks like Malcolm X,
Speaker 5: even though he doesn't. And I mean there's this, I mean,
Speaker 5: you know, one of the most quoted speeches in my
Speaker 5: life that we use as part of the rating system
Speaker 5: on the show is oh, I say, and I say again,
Speaker 5: you've been had, you been took, You've been hoodwig, bamboozle,
Speaker 5: let as stray run him up.
Speaker 1: This is what he does. I just did a very
Speaker 1: poor job of it.
Speaker 5: That speech is like, again, it's like, it's just one
Speaker 5: of the things where you can say that to probably
Speaker 5: a certain generation of black people, like go oh yeah,
Speaker 5: Malcolm X. And the finally about that, there's no evidence
Speaker 5: that Malcolm X ever said that, the real Malcolm X,
Speaker 5: but it's one of the most quotable and again, we
Speaker 5: didn't land on Plymouth Rock. There's no alpha evidence that
Speaker 5: the real Malcolm X said that I've ever seen, but
Speaker 5: Denzel said it, so now it's one of those popular
Speaker 5: Malcolm xIC quotes. Like he sort of took over the
Speaker 5: legacy of Malcolm X in that movie in a way
Speaker 5: that you realize is so gigantic when you compare that
Speaker 5: to and not not putting out his performans.
Speaker 1: But like Will Smith and Ali that's it's fine. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like it's not bad.
Speaker 3: I think there's something similar between those two performances though,
Speaker 3: And yeah, I mean Donzel's is far superior, but both
Speaker 3: are taking actors who are known for their charisma, right,
Speaker 3: they just have this molten hot charisma and playing figures
Speaker 3: from the history who had the same thing and so
Speaker 3: that could go really poorly, but somehow I think will
Speaker 3: Smith pulls it off. But even more so Washington, they
Speaker 3: managed to morph those different types of charisma into something
Speaker 3: that's wholly new, like what you're talking about, Kamal. Where
Speaker 3: those speeches are considered, it's not Denzel, it's not Malcolm X.
Speaker 3: It's this holy new thing that is so powerful. It
Speaker 3: has this pop cultural cachet now that that we all recognize.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you I really.
Speaker 8: Every election year, these politicians are set up here to pacify.
Speaker 8: Just sit here and set up here by the white man.
Speaker 4: This is what they do.
Speaker 10: They send jougs in Harlem down here to pacify it.
Speaker 1: They send alcohol down.
Speaker 10: Here to pacify it. They send prostitution down here to
Speaker 10: pacify it. Why you can't even get drugs in all
Speaker 10: them without the white man's per missions. You can't get
Speaker 10: prostitution in hollow without the white man's permission. You can't
Speaker 10: get gambling in Holland without the white man's the mission.
Speaker 10: So every time you break the seal on that liquor bottle,
Speaker 10: that's a government seal you'll break, I say, and I
Speaker 10: say it again. You've been hand You've been depend Goodwin.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and like I said, I think like and again
Speaker 5: not I think the Ali movie like it didn't. I mean,
Speaker 5: it works fine, but I don't think it was like
Speaker 5: it's transcendent and some stuff.
Speaker 1: For reasons that aren't to do with will Smith. I
Speaker 1: don't want to put it on him.
Speaker 5: I think with the Will Smith performance, I feel like
Speaker 5: there's a difference between Sometimes in that performance, I can
Speaker 5: hear him doing the impression. Yeah, no, compre where's with Denzel.
Speaker 5: I don't hear him do I don't hear Denzel and
Speaker 5: about at all? Like, oh, this is just footage of
Speaker 5: Malcolm X. They got I thought he was more light
Speaker 5: skinned anyway.
Speaker 2: Well, so with Malcolm exit number one, really that perfect
Speaker 2: crossover then the synthesis of great movie and great performance.
Speaker 2: And I'm with you completely, Josh. Were you number one
Speaker 2: Malcolm X as well in your list?
Speaker 3: I had he got gamess my number one gel performance.
Speaker 3: And that's only because I revisited a fair amount of
Speaker 3: it in the last week. I had forgotten how good
Speaker 3: that movie.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've got it at number four.
Speaker 3: Oh, good, good, excellent. I mean it's this is again
Speaker 3: like in Glory A really complicated in some ways, nasty guy,
Speaker 3: far nastier than than the character and glory, but the
Speaker 3: way the shades he brings to that and he got
Speaker 3: game and plus that doctor j Affro. I mean that
Speaker 3: might have put it over the top for me at
Speaker 3: number one.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I mean that movie is amazing. That's a movie that
Speaker 5: I haven't seen as much as the other Denzel movies.
Speaker 5: And I think that it's like a classic Spike Lee movie,
Speaker 5: and that's kind of a trojan horse.
Speaker 1: You think it's about one thing, but it's really about
Speaker 1: another thing.
Speaker 5: Absolutely, and uh but when I watched when I rewatched
Speaker 5: his performance the movie for the podcast, I was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 5: this is way better than I remembered. And we had
Speaker 5: Spike Lee on our podcast and it was a great episode.
Speaker 5: We did, like all talked about all the movie to
Speaker 5: work and Denzel. It's also a thing where I told
Speaker 5: Spike like, I wouldn't have picked when you had Rayald
Speaker 5: in that movie back in the day.
Speaker 1: I was like, why this guy?
Speaker 5: And then it real ends up being one of the
Speaker 5: greatest basketball players in the history of all period, Like that,
Speaker 5: you're smarter than.
Speaker 1: Me, Spike Lee.
Speaker 4: That's yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 5: Kevin Avery one is Kevin averys Denzel, who's the cost
Speaker 5: of my podcast. One of his favorite Denzel scenes in
Speaker 5: the movies, and he got game when he hits a
Speaker 5: guy in the.
Speaker 3: Throat man and he is so vicious there, and I
Speaker 3: love the touch at the end where and this speaks
Speaker 3: to the layers of his character he runs. You know,
Speaker 3: it's not like this big victorious. He is the tough guy.
Speaker 3: He you know, he he just knocked this guy out,
Speaker 3: but then he also realizes what that means for him
Speaker 3: in his life and he takes off running down the street.
Speaker 4: I love that touch.
Speaker 5: Yeah, No, it's like it's at that moment where he
Speaker 5: hits the guy, the guy goes down, he also says
Speaker 5: like keep breathing, breathe, and then.
Speaker 4: That's such a Denzel moment. Yeah, I don't really want.
Speaker 5: To hurt you, but you know, but also, oh shitoving
Speaker 5: to get out here exactly. I mean, there's there's so
Speaker 5: many like I'm sort of upset that I didn't get
Speaker 5: man on fire on here because I think.
Speaker 2: That's well, that's yeah, keep going to that's a good transition.
Speaker 2: Maybe real quick as we consider any other movies you
Speaker 2: did strongly consider or ended up as honorable mentions, as
Speaker 2: we've mentioned a couple of the ones for our list,
Speaker 2: and we're certainly not going to go into any detail
Speaker 2: at this point because you've done an amazing job illustrating
Speaker 2: why Denzel's so great in your picks. But I had
Speaker 2: number five deja vu because I felt like I needed
Speaker 2: a Tony Scott film here, and their collaboration being obviously
Speaker 2: the one that he's collaborated with that director the most,
Speaker 2: and I was thinking about it just in terms of
Speaker 2: Man on Fire or some of these other titles, the
Speaker 2: taking of Pellam one, two three. If you had another
Speaker 2: movie star in any of those roles, say someone like
Speaker 2: Bruce Willis, who I think is a fine movie star,
Speaker 2: would he have ever been able to bring an ounce
Speaker 2: of the emotional complexity and depth that righteousness, but then
Speaker 2: couple that with that kind of vulnerability or that humanity
Speaker 2: that he brings that makes those movies rewatchable. Denzel is
Speaker 2: the reason why I mean Tony Scott. I know a
Speaker 2: lot of us have come to appreciate his filmmaking more
Speaker 2: over the years, but it's Denzel that makes those movies
Speaker 2: worth revisiting.
Speaker 4: I think what about you come out? You sound like,
Speaker 4: you're not a big fan of that film of Deja Vu.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, I mean I enjoy that movie.
Speaker 5: It's just it's one of those things where it's like
Speaker 5: there's some movies this is true of all actors, where
Speaker 5: I think he's great in that movie, and I think
Speaker 5: Denzel does elevate a movie beyond where it can only
Speaker 5: like you can take a bad movie, it's like, you know,
Speaker 5: it becomes better with Denzel. That one, to me just
Speaker 5: feels very much like I like watching that movie, but
Speaker 5: if it had been Tom Cruise, I wouldn't have stepped
Speaker 5: near it, you know, like I wouldn't have liked it.
Speaker 5: So it's like the movie in and of itself to
Speaker 5: me is it's a very sort of mainstream Hollywood vehicle, sure,
Speaker 5: which I'm not anti that, but it doesn't it feels
Speaker 5: like and Denzel's got a lot of those on a
Speaker 5: thing where you're like, this could have been I think
Speaker 5: he brings lot to it, but it could have been anybody,
Speaker 5: Whereas like Malcolm X is either Denzel or nobody else,
Speaker 5: Like you know, Training Day is either Denzel or it
Speaker 5: becomes a much different movie. Deja Vu might have been
Speaker 5: a bigger hit with Tom Cruise because he's a white guy,
Speaker 5: and we tend to enjoy white guys running around after
Speaker 5: explosions more than we like black guys doing it.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4: No, No, very valid.
Speaker 2: Though to my point, I don't think I would want
Speaker 2: to go back and rewatch the Tom Cruise version.
Speaker 4: But Denzel.
Speaker 1: Cruise, Jack Reacher. I'm looking forward to the sea.
Speaker 4: Aren't we?
Speaker 1: All right?
Speaker 4: So real quick, I'll just list him number four. I had,
Speaker 4: he got game number three.
Speaker 2: I had Devil in a Blue Dress, And this is
Speaker 2: one where if I was just ranking the movies, it
Speaker 2: might be lower. But I love his easy rollins. I
Speaker 2: love every bit of that, and of course love don
Speaker 2: Cheetah's Mouse as well. Number two Inside Man and one
Speaker 2: Malcolm X so three of the Spike Lee movies in
Speaker 2: there in my top five.
Speaker 3: What about you, John, I've got Devil in a Blue
Speaker 3: Dress right there at number three too. I think that
Speaker 3: speaks to his timelessness. I mean, he slips into that
Speaker 3: what is it about nineteen forty fifty familiar post World
Speaker 3: War so easily, and that puts him up there with
Speaker 3: the all time actors. When you can do that shift
Speaker 3: shift Eras. So I had Flight at five, a movie
Speaker 3: I'm very mixed on, but man, he just about pulls
Speaker 3: that thing out in the last ten minutes. Isn't quite
Speaker 3: able to Malcolm X. I've got at four because I
Speaker 3: do really like him so much in Devil in a
Speaker 3: Blue Dress. At three that might be a sexiest performance
Speaker 3: Devil in a Blue Dress for sure. Glory I've got
Speaker 3: up there at number two, and then as I mentioned,
Speaker 3: he got Game is number one.
Speaker 2: Okay, So come out any other thoughts on any of
Speaker 2: those or any of the other films that you regret
Speaker 2: that you couldn't squeeze in there. Yeah.
Speaker 5: I mean there's a film that I've really come to
Speaker 5: respect a lot because of the podcast and that when
Speaker 5: I rewatched it, I was like, oh, this is even
Speaker 5: more important than that. I think it's the sort of
Speaker 5: and I think a lot of people made me respect
Speaker 5: it more. But I watched it and I was like, this
Speaker 5: film still holds up that it just didn't make it.
Speaker 5: I just did and if I put it in I
Speaker 5: would have been trying to sound smart. But Philadelphia is
Speaker 5: maybe the most interesting Denzel Washington movie that there is,
Speaker 5: just the fact that he be in the course of
Speaker 5: the movie goes from homophobe to not homophobe. And he's
Speaker 5: a black man, which in the black community there's a
Speaker 5: lot made out of us being more homofog to other people,
Speaker 5: which I don't believe to be true. But Tom Hanks
Speaker 5: gets the credit for Philadelphia, but Denzel's character is the
Speaker 5: anchor of the movie.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. I actually just saw parts of that
Speaker 2: movie recently on TV. Hadn't seen it in years, and
Speaker 2: some of those courtroom scenes are fantastic, and Denzel is
Speaker 2: why and Jonathan Demi's camera and those point of view
Speaker 2: shots where he's talking right to us as the jury
Speaker 2: as the audience, I think are really effective. You're right,
Speaker 2: Denzel is great there. He also worked, of course with
Speaker 2: Demi on The Manchurian Candidate, which maybe not as good
Speaker 2: as the original Mantor in Canada, but still a quality.
Speaker 1: I like that one. His I mean, Meryl Streep is
Speaker 1: amazing in ventoring candidate. It's just which is funny.
Speaker 5: That's what we had Spike Leeless his top five Denzil
Speaker 5: watching movies, but we wouldn't let him put his own
Speaker 5: movies in there.
Speaker 1: And so he listed Manchuuring Candidate, which I was like interesting.
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, well we will definitely link to that
Speaker 2: episode in our show notes at filmspotting dot net, the
Speaker 2: one with Spike Lee and link to your podcast. And
Speaker 2: I can't say how much fun this was. Thanks so
Speaker 2: much for taking the time again, come out, thanks, come.
Speaker 1: Out, Thanks for having me happy to do it. This
Speaker 1: isn't an election, This is a coup.
Speaker 6: This is in our own country, a regime change in
Speaker 6: our own country.
Speaker 7: Then don't then.
Speaker 8: This is rich people, manchurian global funding, bad science to
Speaker 8: put a sleeper in the White House. And that's what's
Speaker 8: going on, Rosie, that's what's going on.
Speaker 2: You'll hear me joke about this in the show on Friday.
Speaker 2: But yes, he did just openly laugh at me at
Speaker 2: one of those picks. But Josh, I'm standing by it.
Speaker 2: What other choice do I have. It's on the record.
Speaker 2: It's on the record, isn't it Our Thanks again to
Speaker 2: w camal Bell. That was a fun show and we
Speaker 2: have another fun show talking about Denzel Washington coming up
Speaker 2: this Friday, our review of Spike Lee's latest Highest to Lois.
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Speaker 4: Thanks for listening.
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